WEBVTT - Ep 114: Aaron Dessner, The National + Big Red Machine 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:01.920 I was very thankful for it. 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.160 It felt like a weird life reap musically and creatively 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:09.080 in a time of otherwise great uncertainty and anxiety. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.920 Welcome to Midnight Chats, a podcast of laid back conversations 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.080 with leading names in music. In keeping with these informal interviews, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.840 each new one is published weekly at midnight. This week's 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.560 episode is hosted by me Greg cochrane from Loud and 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:30.400 Quiet magazine. We interrupt this period of downtime for Midnight 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.800 Chats to bring you something a little bit special and 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.920 in between series episode of the podcast with Aaron Desner. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.440 In any ordinary time, I'd be excited about welcoming Aaron 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:46.320 onto the podcast. But the multi instrumentalist, producer, founding member 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.800 of the National has had, and this is putting it mildly, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.680 quite an eighteen months. The big headline being that instead 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.840 of making banana bread like everyone else during quarantine, he 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:02.280 made an album with Taylor Swift Folklore. You probably heard about. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.080 It went on to win the Album of the Year 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.399 at the twenty twenty one Grammys back in March. I 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.800 guess that surprised a few people, but that new creative 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:17.200 partnership continued throughout twenty twenty and into this year. Aaron 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.520 also worked on Folklore's sister album, ever More, and he's 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.679 also been involved with Taylor's project to re record and 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.839 release her previous albums in order to re establish the rights. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.880 As close followers of his work will know, Aaron likes 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.600 to keep busy, whether that's curating brilliant festivals, co running 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.960 the People Platform, or composing the music for an art installation. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.080 He does so many things there's always a reason to 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.920 speak to him. But on this occasion, excitingly, it's the 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.960 release of a new Big Red Machine album. The multi 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.480 dimensional collective he's formed with Bonnie Ver's justin Vernon, the 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.240 follow up to their self titled debut album in twenty eighteen, 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.840 is this new It's called How Long Do You Think 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:03.840 It's Going To Last? And it's out to buy and 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.280 stream from Friday, the twenty seventh of August. In keeping 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.480 with the cooperative spirit of the whole project, it features 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.399 lots of notable guests including Taylor Swift, Robin Pecknold from 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:21.360 Fleet Fox's Sharon van Etton, Lisa Hannigan, Ben Howard, Anise Mitchell, 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.080 and many others. As you're about to hear in the 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:28.359 conversation we recorded. It's the songs where Aaron takes lead vocals, 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:30.919 not something he does all that often, that I think 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.960 are amongst the standout moments, particularly the track Brycey you'll 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.120 hear me mistakenly call it Bryce in the chat that's 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.359 about his twin brother and bandmate in the National. There's 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.080 also a very moving track called hutch which is an 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.840 ode to his friend and collaborator Scott Hutchison from Frightened Rabbit, 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.120 who sadly passed away a few years ago. Lovely stuff 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.320 of him talking about the closeness of his friendship with 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.600 Justin Vernon as well, given how disrupted everything has been 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.919 throughout this year. In last who wanted to find out 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.960 if he's managed to spend any time in person with 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.600 the National, which he has. They got back together in 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.680 the early summer, so he fills us in on all 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.400 of that. So thanks again to Aaron for recording this, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.680 especially as he was away spending some time with his 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.760 brother and their family in France at the time. For 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.320 that reason, forgive the odd bit of glitchy Wi Fi audio. 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.080 So here we go a special one off episode of 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:29.680 Midnight Chats. I'm really happy to introduce Aaron Detzler. Aaron, 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.040 welcome to Midnight Chats. It's great to have you on 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:34.760 the podcast. How are you doing today? 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.520 And well, thank you. I'm in France near the Spanish border. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.840 It's the Basque coast, and then my brother lives here 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.360 and we came down and just kind of finally moving 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:51.960 around a little bit more now that we can. 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.920 So it's Nakes, yeah, near Saint Sebastian, Spain. 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.440 Actually is that having a short break? Are you getting 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.600 to work on something? What's going to taking you there? 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:01.080 At the moment. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.280 It's really just like I haven't seen family until in 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.560 a year and a half. So my sister had her 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.120 twenty fifth wedding anniversary and I came over. She lives 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.680 in Italy and my brother lives in France, so I've 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.560 just been like visiting them. But I'm still doing I 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:17.360 kind of I always work on some things. 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:17.760 I work. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.200 I have my laptop and I can still work, so 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.920 it's sort of like never ending, never ending music stuff. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:25.000 But I'm good. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.640 Do you do find it hard like switching off? I mean, 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.440 I mean it feels like you're always working on such 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.839 a range of projects at all times. I mean, obviously 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.200 some of that involves like booking into being with various people, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:38.960 like together in the studio, but a lot of the time, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.560 imagine it's just kind of like tinkering away like remote working. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:43.240 Are you good at kind of like being like, no, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.440 going to turn off the laptop for this week because 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.600 it's a bit of family time, or are you there 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.440 sort of getting up super early in the morning just 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:51.720 to get a little bit of work done. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.159 It's weird, Like I think I'm good at I'm lazy 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.760 with certain things, like I don't. It takes a lot 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.000 for me to open the laptop and pro tools and 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.520 actually are working on something. But I always play instruments, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:05.960 so like. 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.680 That part never really turns off. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.240 Wherever I am, there's usually like there's a piano here, 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.560 and there's guitars and stuff, so I pick those up. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.719 And that's actually when oftentimes that's when the most interesting 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.480 things happen, is when you're not really intending to work, 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:24.040 but you just accidentally stumble onto something, or when you're 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.719 playing music and you don't know what it is or 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.120 you don't know what it's for. That's when the interesting 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.920 things happen, at least for me. Because if I sit 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.839 down and I'm being more intentional like trying to write something, 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.479 usually it comes out a little bit like contrived or 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.680 sort of I don't know, something that less inspired than 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.080 if you just sort of like are doing it in 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.640 a more abstract way and then you stumble into some 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.720 place that's interesting. So that's kind of like work. I 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.760 never really stop playing music, but I do stop like 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.560 editing and playing the computer. 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.840 Basically looking forward to chatting to you in a second 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.320 about all of the well, the Big Red Machine record 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.040 that's coming out very but there are always reasons to 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.719 feel sort of nostalgic and certain hooks and anniversaries and 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:07.400 things like that, especially with all the work that you've 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.800 done over the years. But I noticed that this year 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.000 is twenty years since you started Brassland. So this is 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.600 the record label that you set up to well to 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.120 release music from the national originally, I suppose, and then 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.160 it's gone on. You've obviously worked with so many like 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:27.040 tremendous artists over those kind of decades. But I wondered 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.359 if you had any sort of reflections on starting that 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.200 label and what it's gone on to do and the 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.400 artists that it's sort of meant that you've gone on 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.800 to work with and what that's been like. 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.919 Thank you for asking about Breslayn. I mean Breslin was 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.359 it was. We started it with our friend Alec Handley Bemis, 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.080 who's really like been the leader of it. And he 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.240 was someone who went to college with my brother, and 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.440 he was a music journalist and like just a really 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.440 smart person and a good friend, and he was also 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.200 really cynical. Kind of early I remember when he first 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.960 met my brother, who said my brother was playing the 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.160 guitar on the college campus where they went like sitting 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.120 outside playing the guitar, and Alec went up to him 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.000 and introduced himself and then asked if Bryce was in 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:11.840 a band, and Bryce was like yeah, and like Alec 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.480 was like, well, I probably won't like your band, which 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.520 I don't know. You know, Like we always joked about 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.920 that because he was like, you know, he's kind of 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.320 cynical but extremely knowledgeable. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.880 And we've had we joked that we put out music. 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.280 We've always put out music that no one else would 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.520 put out or something. Made a pretty good career of that, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.880 but that's not actually entirely true. I think we just 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.640 tried to put out records that didn't They felt like 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.280 Braslan would be the best home and that maybe didn't 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.400 make sense in other places. And but yeah, they started 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.800 with the national clubs, but then we had so many 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:51.200 interesting artists book and gays and this is the Kid 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:56.120 and you know, people like Eric Friedlander and there were 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.000 a lot of awesome records that we put out. But 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.960 over time, like it's really been Alex working. We've brace 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.400 named down and to do that both things, and we 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.400 kind of still stay involved much as we can. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.320 And I mean kind of linked to that obviously the 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.600 last few years, well about five years ago now, I 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.120 think it was you launched People, which is like, you know, 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.040 a platform for like a record label, a platform, a 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.760 place where people can kind of come together as a community. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.720 Obviously you've done sort of festivals and live events with 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.800 that as well, like the People FESTI we did in Berlin, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.120 And I wondered how, through the sort of past eighteen months, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.839 how you've seen that community evolve, because obviously, as we've 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.000 all had to you know, face to face, haven't spent 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.440 a lot of time physically with other people, you know 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:43.679 that it feels like basically a lot of that has 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.400 been built on the chemistry that comes out of people 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.360 being together a lot of the time physically. So I 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.520 just wondered how that how you've seen that kind of 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.559 evolve the past eighteen months with what with everything that's 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:55.120 been going on. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:59.120 People, which actually we have we have to spell it 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.679 with letters and numbers upside down because People magazine apparently 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:08.840 owns the use of the word people, which is given 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.880 me a more like every man and woman term than people. 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.680 But anyways, we call originally we called it people, and 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.800 then we got to cease and desist from the people 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.520 their own people. But I think initially it started as 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.720 as an idea kind of coming out of I think 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.400 a feeling that collaboration between artists and giving people a 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:36.560 chance to make new music is vital to growing and 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.800 pushing forward what you're doing and being able to like 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.040 not I think with so many artists they get stuck. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.199 Musicians get stuck kind of in this cycle of making 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.480 records and then promoting them, in the sort of that 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.680 bottleneck of make a record and then promote it, wait 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:56.319 for it to come out and promote it and tour 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.240 and then make another one, and it kind of like 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.199 and you play the same songs over and over on tour. 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.040 This has kind of been our experience with the National also, 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:09.560 and I've always enjoyed having the opportunity to do something different, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.240 whether it's collaborate with people I've never met before, or 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.000 get up on stage and be more spontaneous or play 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.600 you know, have to take the risk of like not 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.920 totally knowing what you're doing, or just reacting in real 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.720 time to other musicians. And it's a simple idea, but 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.320 actually there aren't I think a lot of there aren't 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.680 a lot of actual opportunities for people to do that, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.480 or they can be few and far between. His most 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.880 of the music industry is structured around you, like selling 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.360 tickets to your show, where people are going to hear 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.679 the songs that they already know, you know. So we 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:50.199 found my brother started at the festival in our hometown Cincinnati, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.640 like sixteen or seventeen years ago, Cincinnati, Ohio. The vestivals 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.760 called Music Now, and the whole idea is to commission 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.200 artists to make new music for it and then perform 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.000 it and so and it was more like more akin 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.320 to new music world or the classical music world, but 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:15.240 pulling in people from all different kind of multidisciplinary artists, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.240 but also you know, like from the indie rock world 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.480 or from wherever, you know, like in getting them a 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.520 chance to just write new music and perform it. There 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.160 was so much vitality in that, and so many great 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.840 seeds were planted at music now that then we kind 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.240 of kept trying to look for ways to do that, 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.480 and that's when Justin Burnon and I started the Eau 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.360 Claire Festival in his hometown, which was similar, maybe just 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.160 on a bigger scale because it was outside, but also 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.520 like we tried to get people to come do something 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.240 they hadn't done before, or to work with people they'd 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.640 always wanted to, which but they didn't have the chance anyways. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.960 And then that migrated into working with the Mitchelbergers in Berlin, 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.680 Tom and Dedan and we started the People Festival there 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.600 with them, and we had to and you kind of 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.560 did a lot of things at the hotel because they 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.200 kind of provided this sort of oasis where you could 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.400 come live and stay at the hotel and work on 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.440 new music with people, and there was all kinds of 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.040 collaboration that happened there. And then we you know, they're 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.640 at the funk House, the old radio campus in Berlin. 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.720 There we gathered the first time, there were one hundred 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.320 musicians for a week and then there were performances, and 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:25.960 the second time we had another one and there were 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:30.480 two hundred musicians. Kind of insane how much music was 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.280 made and how many seeds were playing it and sort 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.240 of projects came out of that. Really, then we started 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.560 to realize that there could be there's a need to 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:43.160 like also have a platform for releasing that music and 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.360 sharing it with people, and so we started we tried 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.439 to start a streaming platform, which sort of worked, but 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.440 it was also like going to be a huge amount 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.000 of effort to build it and maintain it, and it 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.199 wasn't really what we set out to do. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.040 So then we started. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.240 Another record label which exists now and that's where like 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.160 Big Red Machine is coming out on that and a 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.360 lot of other music, as much music as we can 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.360 possibly release. But I think it's yeah, it's been hard 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.440 not to be able to. Marry Hickson is this amazing 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.480 organizer and producer who lives in Ireland and she was 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.840 the one really organizing the residencies and so as when 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.840 COVID came, all these plans kind of got suspended or scrapped, 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.920 but now it's slowly starting to come back. But in 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:26.880 the meantime, I feel like people have still been able 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.760 to really work remotely with each other and it's kind 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.840 of been amazing how people have adapted. And I mean 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.040 it's obviously made so much music in during the quarantine 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.240 and during this kind of like period where no one 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.120 can travel. But yes, people, it's just a loose idea, 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.240 but the basic idea and you see it in the 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.840 Bigger Machine record, is collaboration and trying to create this 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.040 sort of these community sense of community and music and 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.520 really like open exchange of ideas. 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:54.720 And I find. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.880 Myself really growing a lot when I do that, as 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.720 opposed to like just making stuff by myself or being 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.240 just staying in the national and doing my thing. You know, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.280 like that can start to be confining or kind of 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.040 you can easily stagnate. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.360 I think you mentioned Mary Hickson there. I came to 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.960 the Sounds from Safe Harbor festival in Cork in Ireland 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:17.200 in twenty seventeen, which was one of the most exciting 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.480 weekends of music I've ever been to. I think because 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.000 not just the fact that you know obviously that you 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.240 were there with the National and Bonnie Beer was there 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.400 playing and loads of fantastic artists were there, but it 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.120 was full of sort of what felt like really spontaneous 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:36.040 moments of music and just just completely different and for me, yeah, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.000 I mean, I'm sure this was the purpose, but it 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.360 kind of reinvented what I thought of music festival could be. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:41.720 Really. 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.840 Yeah, I'm really excited. I'm pleased to hear that there's 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.800 going to be You're keen to get back and do 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.280 more of that stuff again in the future as well. 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.200 Yeah, Mary's she's like she's always working on a lot 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.760 of ideas and there's a bunch of things starting to 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.240 be playing right now. But I think it's it's again, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.240 it's a simple idea to sort of give people time 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.720 and space to make something new, but it doesn't happen enough, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.400 you know. I think it's a lot of it's just 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.200 something that and Mary is particularly good at that and 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.880 just give so much encouragement and been emphasizing process kind 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.440 of over the product. That's also you know, Tam Nadine 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.920 Mitchelbergers still are hosting a lot of great things at 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.400 the in Berlin also, and it's just I think it's 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.160 been a really positive movement. 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.440 You mentioned that that sort of the collaborative spirit is 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.800 sort of a strong core element of Big Red Machine. 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.600 I mean, obviously, right at the heart of it is 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.760 yourself and Justin. Away from the obvious chemistry that you 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.800 have in terms of creativity writing music together, how do 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.160 you and Justin kind of compliment each other just as 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.680 being mates as friends? Like how does it work together? 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.280 Like why do you get on so well? 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:51.080 It's a good question. 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.040 I mean, we're from similar places in a way, or 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.960 at least we're both in Western He's from a small 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:02.880 Wisconsin town, western Wisconsin. I'm obviously from Ohio, which is 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.360 more it feels like more East coast in a way, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.640 or something like a little bit people aren't quite as 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:13.200 nice or something as they are and Wisconsin. But I 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.200 think he's not. One thing I would say is like 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.480 he's not naturally someone who would seek the spotlight, and 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:24.000 neither am I. He's basically just like someone who is 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.240 obviously so gifted musically and then really like it just 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.880 is in his soul. And I grew up in a 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.920 similar way where it's like I've just been playing music 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.960 since I was a kid, and it's just like my 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:39.320 natural state. But I'm not that I don't kind of 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.880 love some of the a lot of the trappings of 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.000 it or something or like having to cultivate the spotlight 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.560 or seek it or something into like we I think 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.840 we have really enjoyed just making music for the sake 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.160 of making it, not really knowing what it is. Almost 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.880 like somehow when we're together, there is this feeling a 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.760 little bit it's almost childlike, like the wonder of like, dah, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.680 let's just make some stuff, or let's start to get 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.960 some people together do something almost like you're just whatever. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:15.760 Doing acid with your friends and making noise is getting 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.399 back in touch with the feeling of like why you 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.280 make music in the first place. Forget the acid. I 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.399 just mean, like you know, I mean literally some of 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:25.440 the bigger machines happen like that. But I think it's 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.080 like it just feels very easy. It's like our friendship 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.080 has grown strong over a very long period of time, 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:35.120 because it's been thirteen or fourteen years, but a lot 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:40.359 of it has revolved around just like tinkering with music. Well, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.600 I guess the truth is a lot of over time 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.040 because like I've been on tour for so long, like 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.600 the national tour for over twenty years. So eventually, like 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.040 a lot of your friendships are kind of connected to 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.200 what you do because I don't I haven't been home 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.280 a whole lot to make other friends or something, you 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:56.159 know what I mean. So it's like a lot of 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.520 the people you know are people that are kind of 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:03.520 like in the same doing similar things or out there 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.440 because you just end up seeing each. 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.239 Other that, as you already mentioned, there's a whole lot 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.520 of other stuff that goes along with making the music 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.479 that you make. How do you support each other? Like 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.320 what are you kind of you know, do you lift 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.960 each other up through the times when it's not as easy? 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:16.399 You do? 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.040 You know? Do you know when it's time to just 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.480 like crack open a beer and just be there for 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:21.679 each other that kind of thing. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.920 Yeah, I mean, I think that's maybe another aspect of 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.600 our friendship is that we both have had our struggles 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:36.480 with you know, ups and downs or kind of sometimes 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:43.119 anxiety or depression, and he's been very helpful to me 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.199 and caring and vice versa, and kind of also not 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.440 having big expectations with a lot of friends, I as 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.160 some I struggled when I was a kid as a teenager, 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.639 I had fairly serious depression and I kind of always 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.720 am scared of it a little bit or it's like 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.480 always like just somewhere out there. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:05.480 So I do things to take. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.879 Care of it, and I relate to other people that 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.640 have that also and can be helpful, I think, because 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.520 like I'm sympathetic to it or empathetic. He's the same way. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.840 But he so it's like and music is definitely therapeutic 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.560 or it's important in this emotional way to him in 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.080 the same way it is to me or something I think, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.240 and so or at least, and I think maybe Bigger 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.440 Machine a lot of the music is like has this circular, 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.919 almost meditative like you can feel you can feel me 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.480 like rocking myself, soothing myself, and I think there's something 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.920 that like strikes a real chord with him with that also. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.679 But yeah, we definitely like we definitely have fun. You know, 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.080 it's fun, Like when we get together, it just feels 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.919 it feels very good, comfortable. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:53.679 It's never been never been an effort. 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.720 I mean, having followed your work with different projects that 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.960 you've done. With this Big Red Machine album specifically, it 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.040 feels quite certainly on the tracks where you kind of 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.640 like take lead vocals, very like, very personally. I feel 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.440 like as a listener I kind of learned a lot 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.720 about you to pick out a couple of songs that 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.919 I wanted to mention. Obviously there's a track on there Bryce, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.040 so you know, really it's a beautiful song kind of 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.560 obviously kind of about your brother. And I wondered, like 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.400 what Bryce's reaction was when you perform that or played 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:23.879 it to him for the first time, because it's like 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.000 it's a sort of it's to my ears. You absolutely 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:28.720 tell me if I'm wrong, but it's just kind of 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.880 like it's almost a sort of tribute to your connection 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.879 and his support for you and your life together. 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.280 Basically, Yeah, absolutely, it's almost like a love letter to him, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.959