WEBVTT - Possible Trump Indictment with Matt Whitaker 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.560 We are awaiting the possibility of a Trump indictment. It 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.160 would be the first criminal case filed against a former president, 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.760 unprecedented in American history, and it all hinges on the 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.040 alleged falsification of business records for one hundred and thirty 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.319 thousand dollars payment to Stormy Daniels. We've heard from people 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.600 like Nancy Pelosi and people on the left and they say, oh, well, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.680 Donald Trump's not above the law. Well, sure, you know, 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:25.920 I'd agree with that. No one's above the law, but 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.520 he's also not below it. He's not the first person 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.240 in America to pay someone off with an NDA, and 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.440 he's certainly not going to be the last. We all 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.080 know why they're doing this. They look at Trump as 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.879 a trophy and they're willing to burn down the country 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:40.800 and the rule of law to try to get him. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.919 They've been pursuing this switch hunt from Donald Trump from 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.240 the day that he announced his candidacy for presidency. They'll 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.320 stop at nothing to try to get him. I mean, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.680 I don't have any faith in government anymore, do you. 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.240 They've corrupted the Department of Justice, They've corrupted the FBI. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.000 I don't believe there's an eco application of the law 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.200 in this country, certainly not out of the Manhattan DA's 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.560 office in New York City. We'll talk to former Acting 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.480 Attorney General Matt Whittaker, he was the acting Attorney General 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.360 under President Trump about all of this, what he thinks 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.160 about the case. We'll get into the details of the case, 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.480 what you need to know about it, and also what 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.000 does this all mean for both former President Trump but 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.120 also the country moving forward. What sort of precedent does 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.839 this set in America? So stay tuned. You're not gonna 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:32.720 want to miss this conversation with Matt Whittaker. Matt Whittaker, 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.800 it's been a while since we've caught up. I wish 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.199 I was under a different circumstances than this clown show 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.120 that we're going to be talking about here. Well, yes, 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.360 I agree. You know, typically people called me on their 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.840 worst possible days, and so you know, obviously you're not 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.800 calling for legal advice, so that's good. But yeah, it's 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.120 you know, what's going on right now with Donald Trump 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.160 and the Manhattan DA is unprecedented and it's a little crazy. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.120 I'm sure most people listening are just shaking their heads. 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.000 We're awaiting this possible indictment. This is the first criminal 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.799 case that would be filed against a former president. Are 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.200 they going to do it? The inner workings of a 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:15.079 grand jury are very interesting. You know, we had Michael 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.440 Cohen's former lawyer who went in on Monday and I 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:24.760 think maybe gave the prosecutor and his team a little 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.760 bit of pause. I mean, you know, you ultimately you 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.120 have to get a supermajority of the grand jury to 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.440 vote for the indictment, and your star witness is a 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.560 convicted felon and somebody whose whole goal in life is to, 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.040 you know, get Donald Trump and to punish Donald Trump. 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.320 I just don't think that makes a very attractive case, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.640 certainly to a trial jury, but I think even to 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.240 a grand jury. If I'm you know, a citizen of 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.160 this country and I'm looking at this fact pattern, and 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.640 I'm looking at all the legal jumps which we'll talk 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.520 about in a little bit that they're going to have 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.200 to make to make this case, I'm not sure there's 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.200 a choice Lisa, that you know you have. Either what 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.400 they can voting you to vote a true bill on 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.200 the indictment, which means they vote to approve the indictment, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.200 and the process moves forward or they can no billet. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.240 And it's very rare for a grand jury to no 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.800 bill an indictment presented to them by a prosecutor. But 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:25.760 it happens, and and and it shows that they're actually engaged. 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.080 I mean, it's often been said that a grand jury 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.679 wouldn't diet a ham sandwich. And I don't necessarily agree 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.960 with that extreme a case, but it's a very low bar. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.640 It's probable cause standard, not what you know, again we'll 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.960 talk about later. The trial jury is gonna have to 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.200 consider which is a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. So 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.800 I think it's going to be a close call even 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.480 to get an indictment tomorrow. And if they do get 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.520 an indictment, I mean it's going to be it's going 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.120 to be complete and utter chaos for a while. You know. 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.080 And we're talking about a grand jury in New York City, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.200 a liberal city. So what does that kind of grand 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.760 jury look like. Well, it's going to look like the 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.520 citizens of New York City, citizens of Manhattan. So it's 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.760 going to skew left. You know, a lot of them 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.720 are not, you know, big fans of Donald Trump. But 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.720 I hope we at least that we're not in a 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:19.320 situation in our country where people just like lose their 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.839 reason and common sense. You know, when I give closings 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.000 at trials, I always talk to the jury about just 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.039 you know, that they did not check their reason and 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.080 common sense at the door. And I think these grand juries, 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.520 certainly the grand jurors can certainly use their reason and 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.440 common sense to look at the facts and decide whether 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.080 they think that's a crime. I think there's a lot 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.720 of people that don't think it's a crime. Certainly, a 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.640 lot of people that don't think it's a felony. You know, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.760 whether or not he altered a business record, you know, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.680 that's a misdemeanor under New York law. And I don't 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.680 see that the elevated the way they're trying to elevate 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.640 this to a felony is going to be successful to me. Ultimately, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.800 we can we can get it in that as well. Yeah, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.840 you know, of course, the allegation is that there was 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.719 a falsification of business records for this one hundred and 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:11.120 thirty thousand dollars payment to Stormy Daniels. From your legal perspective, 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.880 does it look like a crime was committed here? Yeah, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.039 I mean, that's that's a great question. I mean, you 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.280 know sort of these these you know that that's going 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.520 to be a question that the jury is going to 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.840 have to wrestle with if it goes to trial, and 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.640 that that an appellate court is going to have to 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.080 decide what the law is on that is, you know, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:32.480 it is characterizing something as a legal fee, um, you know, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.840 the same as a you know, as a settlement expense. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.440 You know, I think that's a I think that's probably 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.960 a closer call than a lot of people maybe originally 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.320 would think until they kind of consider it, um, you 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.719 know what this was for, you know, I mean, and 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.839 then you know, what they're really trying to say is 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.960 that it was a campaign expense. And I can tell 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.680 you that, you know, while I was acting Attorney General, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.480 the Southern District in New York looked at this fack pattern. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.440 It's the exact same back pattern on the idea of 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.840 a campaign finance violation, and they determined that it wasn't 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.960 a campaign finance violation. I'll tell you why. I think 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.440 it's you know, it's a really interesting question. First, a 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.800 little history. You know, they they tried to do this, 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:15.160 you know, remember John Edwards paid you know, his UM 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.560 fair a fair partner if you will, on which call. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:25.080 But it was also on his campaign a settlement out 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.400 of his campaign fund, not his personal funds. And DJ 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.360 prosecutor John Edwards, and John Edwards was acquitted at trial 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.279 UM and it was it was pretty clear from that 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.000 acquittal that you know, some of these things, you know, 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:44.160 a personal flash campaign expense, you know, might not rise 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.760 to that level of the campaign finance violation. But I 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.000 will tell you this, what really is is at the 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.760 heart of this issue is this is the idea of 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.280 a settlement agreement. Whether Donald Trump was intimate with Stormy Gans, 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.760 I believe President Trump I don't think he was. But 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.440 you know, either way, it doesn't matter for the for 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.200 the purposes of what I'm going to explain, and that 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.720 is is that certainly, in twenty sixteen, in the fall, 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:14.480 he was running for president, he was a candidate. Certainly, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.760 a settlement to keep somebody quiet from speaking out, you know, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.240 could be argued to, you know, have benefited his campaign, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.679 but not everything that benefits your campaign is a campaign expense. 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.040 If you're a candidate and you go to lunch during 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.720 a campaign stop, and you pay for your own lunch. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.960 That's certainly not a campaign violation. And so on the 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:38.400 other hand, you know, it's also a personal expense that 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.960 you know, because obviously it didn't just affect his campaign, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.560 it affected his personal life. It affect his relationship with 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.520 his wife, relationship with his kids, a relationship with his business. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.480 So this at best, it's a it's a it's a 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.920 combo personal and campaign expense, and under the law, that 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.080 doesn't make it a campaign expense and therefore a violation 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.120 of campaign finance law. And I can give you a 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.800 stronger argument, and that is that the Federal Election Commission 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.120 looked at this exact same fact pattern as well, in 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.720 addition to Southern District from New York, and they also 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.680 concluded that this was not a campaign finance violation. So 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.680 you know, in my mind, this is a very aggressive 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:19.960 and it takes this campaign finance violation, this felony to 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.920 get this what was otherwise a misdemeanor. We were talking about, 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.520 this qualtification of business records to be elevated to a felony. 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.800 And therefore, you know, actually do some you know, some 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:35.560 real meaningful you know, legal damage to you know, the 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.680 president well and campaign finance violations, you know, typically it 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.679 ends up in a fine. I mean New York City's 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.680 Mayor Eric Adams is currently facing likely fines for accepting 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:49.480 legal campaign contributions, improperly accounting for them, and then also 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.840 ignoring request for documentation by state election authorities. Certainly don't 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.760 think he's going to be facing a felony by Alvin Bragg. 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.360 And that's really where this thing gets really dubious is because, 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.000 let's stay on its face, it would potentially be a misdemeanor, 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.640 but the statute of limitations are up for a misdemeanor 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.120 on this particular case with Trump, So they're reaching for 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.480 a felony. And for that, I mean they must prove 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.280 beyond a reasonable doubt not only did he intend, you know, declare, 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.080 they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.000 intended by this falsification of records to conceal the commission 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.200 of another crime in the process, I mean a felony here. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.319 I'm not an attorney, you are, but just from a 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.040 common sense standpoint, seems like a reach on what they're 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.480 accusing him of. It is. And the other thing is, 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.559 you know, I'm not prone to what about is m 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.679 I don't think it really furthers the art argument very often, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.200 but in this case it kind of. I do do 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.319 it sometimes I'm not going to, I know, but I 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.199 mean Hillary Clinton was fined for hiding the Fusion GPS 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:54.440 research in the Russian collusion, you know, the dossier as 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.640 as payments to a law firm, and certainly that's a 0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:59.920 falsification of a business record. And you don't see album 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.920 Brag showing any interest in going after her for that crime, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.559 you know. So, and then you know, we have this 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.120 whole statute of limitations issue as well. So you have 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.880 the felony issue that we're talking about right now, and 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.480 then you have a statute of limitations challenge that's going 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.319 to be very interesting how they contort themselves because the 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.560 alleged behavior happened seven years ago, and the statue limitations 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.960 for even a felony it's five years, misdemeanors two years. 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.679 That's clearly passed time wise, and so you know, I 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.920 think this case, as we break it down, just becomes 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:37.160 a huge leap to you know, and under the guise 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.880 of that, they were just wanted to target Donald Trump 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.000 and we're going to prosecute him no matter what, and 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.320 so you mentioned for the felony they're trying to say, 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.600 as my understanding is that because he's been outside of 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.360 the state of New York that somehow that like pauses 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.840 the statute of limitations for the felony charges. That correct. 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.160 I forget what the what it's exactly called. So my 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:02.120 actual understanding of their argument is that the payments to 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.640 Michael Cohen were over a couple of years, and that 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.839 they're barely within the last payment is within that five years. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.480 I think that I haven't heard the extra jurisdictional argument. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.320 Maybe there's one that's one as well. But I read 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.240 a nice piece by your colleague Andy MacArthur, or maybe 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.480 it was John Turley, one of them wrote kind of 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.680 a breakdown of sort of this idea of how to 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.040 get within the five years, and still believe that it 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.800 was a little, uh specul to try to get it 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.000 within that window of five years, because I thought I 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.600 was reading an article from him as well, and I 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.600 forget what it was called, but there's like a certain 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.920 word for it that they can But anyways, well you 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:47.560 can toll the states, right, Yes, I don't. I don't. 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.960 I just it's going to be a novel theory under 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.280 a New York law. I just I think it's I 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.480 don't you know, usually if you're just in another state, 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.080 that's not I mean, if you're out of the country, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.400 I might pull but in another state, I don't, that's not. 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.640 I'm not familiar with that because but again, this is 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.600 they're going to use every aggressive technique to try to, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.319 you know, prosecute Donald Trump. That's pretty clear to me 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.080 right now. But I mean it seems like even in 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.240 this conversation even trying to come up with what they 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.680 would possibly do, I mean, we're even reaching and trying 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.840 to figure out how they would reach. So it's like, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.200 you know, and and and they have to get to 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.000 a point of beyond a reasonable doubt here, and so 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.640 I just feel like if we're even having a you know, 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.800 trouble trying to figure out, you know, how they're reaching, 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.839 I mean, how do they reach that standard? I don't know. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.720 This is I've I've found myself in trying to explain 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.200 this whole situation several times just resorting to the I 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.000 don't know, because it doesn't make any sense. It's unprecedented. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.560 So we're you know, we're in brand new uncharted territory. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.079 At the same time, you know, some of these legal 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.839 theories and ideas that they're trying to use just don't 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.000 make any sense to me. And you know, again, I'm 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:02.200 used to where you bring a case because you not 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.240 only believe in the case, but it's it's one of 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:09.079 your priorities, it helps your community, and um, and it's 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.160 you're gonna you're you're certain of that you're gonna have 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.679 a really good chance of winning the case or getting 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.839 a plea. This seems like completely opposite of all those tenants. Um, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.600 it's not going to help the citizens of Manhattan at all. 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.600 It's certainly not making their lives better. Uh, you know. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.080 And at the same time, uh, it just does not 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.560 seem like that the chance of winning this case is 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:36.960 at best a coin flip. I think it's actually worse 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.360 than that. I think the probability is probably less than 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.160 twenty percent that they can actually get this to a conviction, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:50.040 conviction that'll stick quick commercial break more with Matt Whittaker. Here, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.880 people like Nancy Pelosi and the left and they say, oh, well, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.040 you know, Trump isn't above the law. You know, sure, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.080 I agree that no one's above the law, but I 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.439 agree with that below it either you know, and he's 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.320 he's not below the equal application of the law. And 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.439 it's hard to imagine that this is if this was 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.240 just you know, any other person, even any other political candidate, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.400 that they would be trying to reach for a felony 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.760 or even trying to potentially indict that individual on this. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.960 I completely agree with you. I think this is may 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.880 cause I know something. There's instant speculation that this would 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.080 cause a quote unquote war, but you're going to see. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.160 I'm worried if this is successful, that there is going 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.560 to be a real desire or let's just say it, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.040 for revenge for the right and their prosecutors to start 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.000 targeting the left. And I don't think that. I don't 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.320 think that should be done. I don't think it should 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:43.920 be done on either side. I don't think there should 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.040 be a targeting of individuals by the state. And that's 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.360 unfortunately what the Democrats appear to one. I mean, they 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:57.920 just continue to pursue this path, and I don't think 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.720 I don't think they're going to end with Donald Trump. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.160 I mean, I just think all conservatives and it's certainly 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.760 all you know, high profile political office holders, and you know, 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.480 pundits are our fair game. And in this in Alvin 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.000 Braggs and George Soils and the liberal left worldview, and 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.320 you know, I guess to some extent, you know, it's 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.640 just like all other lawfare. It's just one of the 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.200 tools in the battle between the sides. But I just 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:30.760 it's it's when we make the political criminal, I think 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.960 we all lose. And I think our founding fathers will 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.200 be very concerned about what's happening right now. Well, and 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.240 what's worrisome too is I mean, look, the left looks 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.920 at Trump like a trophy. You know, they're all trying 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.120 to get that trophy to get up. But you know, 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.280 in the process, they've set the country on fire, you know, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.640 I mean they've destroyed the rule of law. They've corrupted 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:53.440 the FBI, they've corrupted the Department of Justice. Americans have 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.120 no faith in institutions or a government anymore. So in 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.600 the process of trying to get Donald Trump since twenty sixteen, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.480 they've destroyed the country. And the process isn't that what 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.080 marks us to do? Ultimately? I mean, you know, they 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.360 undermine the institutions, and they you know, they they they're 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.480 always quick to you know, point the finger at those 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.200 of us on the right and suggest that somehow we're 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.320 we started or we did it. I mean, I don't 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.240 think I think trying to you know, sort of uh 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:25.400 dismantle the permanent uh, you know, bureaucratic state is actually 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.200 a good goal. Um. You know, I was, you know, 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.800 I don't think there's any reason we started shouldn't start 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.120 having serious discussions about moving the government out of Washington, 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.800 DC and into the states, you know, distributing the government 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:43.840 to the people instead of consolidating power within one national capital. Um. 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:46.480 I just you know, I just think I think we 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.320 I think we need to really roll up our sleeves 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.640 and and and rethink how we get back to these 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.440 basic and fundamental um tenets of our founding, you know, 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.120 our constitutional separation of powers, not only between the three 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.880 branches of federal government, between the between the federal government 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.919 and the states. And I think we also need to 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.879 look at how, you know, the rule of law. I 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.639 think we need to look at how we can make 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:20.040 these powerful positions that prosecutors have accountable. And especially when 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.280 you have these places like Manhattan where it's just one 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.800 party rule, it's it's destabilizing our country, and you know, 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.199 and it's also distracting our country at least. So this 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.160 is what I worry about. You know, we had massive 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:38.000 banking challenges, we have you know, serious national security challenges 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.600 China and Russia and North Korea. And you know, we 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.960 know that we have alliances with other countries that they're 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.280 begging us to engage and protect and work with them. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.720 I'm thinking of Australia and Japan, India our prime examples 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:58.160 of that. The world is not a safe place, and 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.320 you know, the United States has to lead and right now, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.560 Joe Biden and the Democrats it's a clown show and 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.120 all they want to do is prosecute Donald Trump. It's 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.439 it's really sad well, and in part that might be 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.120 why they're doing it, you know, as well, to try 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.639 to distract from the fact that you know, the country 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.920 is falling apart. And it seems right now to your point, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.560 centralization a government that has taken place, has you know, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.240 destroyed the country. You know what happens to a country 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.119 when you lose the rule of law, which is the 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.360 direction we're heading in in America right now. Yeah, I mean, 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.040 I think it's not good. I mean, because then it 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.840 becomes you know, essentially which you have in China, where 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.919 there's a there's a powerful elite that decide everything. You know, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.440 they decide what the law is, they decide who the 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.679 law applies to, who the law doesn't apply to, and 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.080 then there's a you know, obviously a consolidation of power 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:54.560 and um and wealth among those people in control. It's 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.480 not it's not good, but you know, this is what 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.159 you know. Democrats would always love to take other people's 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.159 money and you know, and and pretend like they you know, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.200 they're wealthy, well, and that's the thing, and they push 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.800 things like you know, socialism, but you know, all that 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.040 really does is empower the elite. So if you're Bernie 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.359 Stander or you're you're fine, you're part of the ruling class. 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.439 It's everyone else that gets screwed. Let's say that this 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.600 this goes down. You know, Trump is indicted. What sort 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.280 of legal recourse does he have and all of this 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.120 to try to continue to fight it? What's the process there? 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.000 Knowing Donald Trump as I know him, he's going to 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.440 fight with everything he has. I hope he's got a 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.520 good team of lawyers. I know some of them. I 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.000 don't know all of them, um, but you know there's 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.399 going to be a lot of motions. If he's dined, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.720 there's gonna be a lot of emotions, um. And those 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.800 motions if they're denied or could be appealed depending on 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.960 what you know, what the characterization is. And then you 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.320 know there's obviously potentially federal appeals that could be done, 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.959 especially in this campaign finance area we were discussing earlier. 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:56.439 And so there's there's going to be a lot of 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:58.840 twists and turns to this and a lot of opportunities 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.600 for us to talk about Elisa. So they look forward 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:02.680 to come back on the future. It seems like it's 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.280 potentially inevitable. But you know, and also I think what 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.520 are the concerns too, is you know, they've tried to 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.880 make working for Trump so toxic. Can he get great 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.520 legal help right now? Yeah? I mean certainly, I think 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.480 that has been a challenge for him, is to find 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.440 really good people that you know, are willing to I guess, 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.159 you know, put everything on the line to defend the 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:28.720 rule of law. But I think, you know, again, I 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.719 think the guy certainly working on the Special Council's investigation 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.040 is a great lawyer, and I think there will be others, 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.399 and there's plenty of you know, good lawyers in New 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.760 York City that could help him on this case. And 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:40.520 so I think you'll find I think you'll find the 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.640 right person. But his you know, his fighting spirit is indomitable, 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.280 and so I think that you know, that will be um, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:48.679 that will be good in the long term. If he 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.240 is indicted, what are the next steps then that he 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.800 would be facing in the process. Well, so if he's indicted, 0:20:54.840 --> 0:21:00.439 the next steps are a restaurant will be issued or 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.520 a notice to appear. Um, you know, if Alvin Bragg 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.760 has any class, you will just give them a notice 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.760 to appear. There will then be you know, the initial 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:13.439 parents the processing, which involves mugshot, fingerprinting and the like, 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.080 and then there will be a trial schedule set and 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:21.320 a discovery order that's put in place to for the 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.399