1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: I woke up this morning to a series of posts online, 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: a bunch of texts, and a lot of hits on 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: Twitter following my conversation with Peter Navarro last evening. It's 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: not often that we here at Balance of Power become 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: the big story in New Delhi, but we were leading 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: newscasts and newspapers today in India following the comments that 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: Peter Navarro made about Russia's war in Ukraine. I'm just 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: dialing through some of these links here Times of India 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: with the headline It's Mody's war. Trump advisor Navarro makes 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: startling remarks on Ukraine. Moved to the Hindu Times Ukraine 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: conflict as Modi's war. Trump officials continued tirade against India. 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: Look at this here as well Indian Express. Trump made 18 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: Navarro dubs Ukraine conflict modis war, says peace runs through 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: New Delhi. If I could play the videos of the 20 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: TV coverage over there, it's also pretty wild. 21 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: Little did we know that India was listening. 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: Little did we know that's where Peter Navarro would go 23 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: on the day that we talked about tariffs and an 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: additional twenty five percent tariff on India as punishment according 25 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: to the White House for buying Russian oil. See the 26 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 2: headlines start to come together here, and Peter Navarro joined 27 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: us just hours after those tariffs took effects. 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 3: Let's listen. 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: Are we actually in talks with India right now? Is 30 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: there a potential for a deal to change that number? 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 4: Look, it's real easy that India can get twenty five 32 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 4: percent off tomorrow if it stops buying Russian oil and 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 4: helping to feed or machine. 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 3: Not sending that signal they're not. 35 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 5: And look here's the thing. 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 4: I'm puzzled, Okay, because Emooni is a great leader. These 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 4: people are are this is a mature democracy with intelligent 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 4: people run in it. 39 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 5: And they look us bald faced. 40 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 4: In the eye on the tariff part and say we 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 4: don't have the highest tariffs in the world, when in 42 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 4: fact they do. There's no dispute about that. If you 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 4: look at the numbers, and then they say, we're not 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 4: going to stop buying Russian oil. 45 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 5: Now what does that mean? 46 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 4: I mean, we've talked about this, was we're talking to 47 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 4: your views again. 48 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 5: When India buys Russian oil. 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 4: At a discount, and then Indian refiners in partnership in 50 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 4: India with Russian refiners make that sell it at a 51 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 4: premium to the rest of the world. Right, Russia uses 52 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 4: the money it gets to fund this war machine, kill 53 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: more Ukrainians. And then the next thing that happens, of course, 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 4: is Ukraine comes to US and Europe and says, give 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 4: us some more money. 56 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 5: So everybody in America loses because of what India is doing. 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 4: That can consumers and businesses and everything lose, and workers 58 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 4: lose because India's high tariffs cost us jobs and factories 59 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: in income and higher wages. And then the taxpayers lose 60 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 4: because we got to fund Mody's war. Okay, the road 61 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 4: to Piece runs at least partly right through New Della's 62 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 4: I mean Mody's war. Because the road to Piece runs 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 4: in part through New Delhi. 64 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 5: I mean that's a lot of money. 65 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: It's a lot of it's a lot of money. 66 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: Or are some who say that we're losing leverage with 67 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: China by eliminating the next biggest economic alternation. 68 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 5: You know, I'm so tired of these these Why are their. 69 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 4: Security strategies being too cute by half? The reality is 70 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 4: you got to stop India and China from buying Russian oil. 71 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 5: You do that tomorrow when the war's over. 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 4: Okay, the war's over if everybody, including Europe, this is 73 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 4: like Europe's still buying. 74 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 5: Russia oil, which is crazy. Okay. 75 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: If people just stop buying Russia oil, then it's only 76 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 4: a matter of time before Putin doesn't have the money 77 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 4: to fund that war. 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 5: So Modi is a big part of it. 79 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 4: It's a million and a half barrels of oil a 80 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 4: day that buys a lot of drones and bombs to 81 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 4: kill ukrainianska a lot. 82 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 5: Okay. 83 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 4: So what's troubling to me, Jo is that the Indians 84 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 4: are so arrogant about this. They say, Oh, we don't 85 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 4: have higher tariffs. Oh, it's our sovereignty. We can buy oil. 86 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 5: From any when we want. 87 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 4: India, you're the biggest democracy in the world, Okay, act 88 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: like one side with the democracies. You're getting in bed 89 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 4: with the authoritarians. 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: At that point, speaking directly toward the camera in a 91 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: message I guess to India, And as I told you, 92 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 2: India was listening. And I'll be very curious to hear 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: what Caroline Levitt has to say about this in the 94 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: White House Press briefing that's scheduled to begin about a 95 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: half an hour from now. But I need to talk 96 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: to Michelle about what we just heard. When things point 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: to the global South, we call Michelle jem Risco of course, Bloomberg, 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: Senior White House and National Security Editor. It's great to 99 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: see you. I don't even know if we have time 100 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: to unpack everything I just heard. Does that sound though, 101 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 2: like is he representing the president? Is he speaking for 102 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: the president? 103 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 5: Here? 104 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: Was Peter Navarro freelancing? Or are we going to start 105 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: hearing about Mody's war in this administration? 106 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 6: Well, there's a lot going on there, and as we know, 107 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 6: President Trump is one who loves the headline. He loves 108 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 6: the Quippi phrase something to kind of ratchet up the pressure, 109 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 6: as they see on India to make a move here, 110 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 6: to make some sort of change in their in their 111 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 6: behavior with regards to Russian oil purchases. I don't think 112 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 6: it's going to happen. I think what we see so far, 113 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 6: or at least we can't predict that it will happen 114 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 6: anytime soon. But what we do see so far is, 115 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 6: you know, Navarro here kind of venting the frustration on 116 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 6: behalf of President Trump. So far, we haven't seen any 117 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 6: White House pushback on what he said last night last 118 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 6: evening to you, and at the same time, there's unlikely 119 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 6: to be an media change in behavior from the Indian side. 120 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 6: I mean, this is a country and a government that 121 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 6: doesn't easily forgive and forget the sort of rhetoric that 122 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 6: Navarro was delivering last night. 123 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: To that, because the coverage that we're seeing makes it 124 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: clear that New Delhi is deeply insulted by this. I 125 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: hate this sound too simple here, Michelle. I thought we 126 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: were friends. Well, Ody was the first world leader to 127 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: visit this press. 128 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 6: I think this kind of underscores the challenge that the 129 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 6: US has had for a long time with India. India 130 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 6: has pursued this sort of non alignment strategy for decades, 131 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 6: and on different levels, also has reasserted, as Navarro kind 132 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 6: of intimated, reasserted its own sovereignty and economic decisions as 133 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 6: they see them like these Russian oil purchases. I mean, 134 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 6: it was almost three years ago that on Bloomberg TV 135 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 6: on the other side of the world, we had the 136 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 6: oil minister Puri, who's still in office, saying this isn't philanthropy. 137 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 6: He said, you know, we've got a country now stretching 138 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 6: to one hundred a billion and a half population, most 139 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 6: populous nation in the world. He says, we're going to 140 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 6: get the best deal for our people on something as 141 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 6: critical as oil. So they don't see it as a 142 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 6: diplomatic issue. The US is framing it as such, and 143 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 6: you heard Davarrow. They're saying that the war could end 144 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 6: to borrow if they ended the purchases. Well, they don't 145 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 6: see it that way, and they're insulted, as you say, 146 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 6: by the intimation that, you know, somehow they're continuing the 147 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 6: war when they see this as completely unrelated. 148 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: He wouldn't accept the idea that this was pushing India 149 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: into the arms of China or or pushing it away 150 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: from US. After we old companies to move manufacturing lines 151 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: there and what appeared to be the great alternative to 152 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: the world's second largest economy. What's going on there because 153 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: it looks like they might be friends again or things are. 154 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 6: Our team in Delhi had a great story overnight about 155 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 6: the sort of warming over the past few months. So 156 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 6: they uncovered a letter that President she sent to Indian 157 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 6: officials in March kind of trying to test the waters 158 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 6: on warming relations. He kind of vented frustrations probably common 159 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 6: frustrations now for the two countries with how the US 160 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 6: was going about it's tariff regime, and that wasn't really answered, 161 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 6: as we've been reporting until around June when Mody and 162 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 6: his government started to see an opening with China. And 163 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 6: now we have this great quote and the story about 164 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 6: from the former US envoy in Delhi, Ashley tell us 165 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 6: saying Trump is the great peacemaker. Look what he's done 166 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 6: to bring Beijing and Delhi together. He's kind of commenting 167 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 6: on how that changed their relationship, something that for decades 168 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 6: they've been at odds with each other over territorial disputes, 169 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 6: trade disputes and the like, and now they're seeing some 170 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 6: common ground because they both have a common adversary, at 171 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 6: least on the trade front. 172 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: Right now in the US, I asked Peter Davarrow talks 173 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: were underway. 174 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: It sounds like they're not. Do we have any sense 175 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: of what communication. 176 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 6: We have with Well, we do know that there was 177 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 6: a US team that was supposed to be in Delhi 178 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 6: this week and delayed that meeting, So it's not looking 179 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 6: good for kind of near term communications along trade lines. 180 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 6: I think the US is probably waiting for some sort 181 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 6: of change again in strategy or in talk from Indian 182 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 6: and I'm not sure they're going to get it, because 183 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 6: all signs are that the Indian government, especially modis deeply 184 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 6: offended as we discuss, and is probably waiting for some 185 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 6: sort of retreat from what Navarro said last night. 186 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: I remember walking up to the President's Liberation Day, India 187 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: was the deal we always heard about. Well, we're going 188 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 2: to have a deal with India, probably Japan, South Korea. 189 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: Those are going to be the first couple of big ones, 190 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 2: and the rest of the world will follow. 191 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, how was the White House so wrong? 192 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 6: Well, I mean, the scholars that have looked at the 193 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 6: US India relationship for a long time would say that 194 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 6: there are some of the same elements that successive presidents 195 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 6: have had kind of taking advantage of the relationship, assuming 196 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 6: that the relationship will be the same as other similar 197 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 6: powers that would have a security and economic component to it. 198 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 6: But India is going to make decisions for India, and 199 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 6: I think to an extent that maybe is a little 200 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 6: bit more stubborn, a little bit more stalwart than some 201 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 6: of the other partners the US has around the world, 202 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 6: and I think that's just at work here. 203 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: Well, you understand this stuff so well. I'm really glad 204 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: you could join michellejem Risco with us here in Washington 205 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: in our Washington bureau at Bloomberg. I want to mention 206 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: a quick breaking headline. Lisa Cook's emergency hearing that we 207 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: were just talking about with Michael McKee has in fact 208 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: been scheduled for tomorrow ten am Friday. We're going to 209 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: be talking about this straight through the end of the 210 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: business week here, So Lisa Cook ten am Friday morning, 211 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: the emergency hearing has been scheduled. 212 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 3: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much 213 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: more coming up after this. 214 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 215 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 216 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 217 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 218 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. 219 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: Just say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty, the headline on 220 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: the terminal that says it all. Lisa Cook sues Trump 221 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: overmoved to oust her from fedboard. 222 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 3: We saw it coming. 223 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: Her lawyer, Abby Lola told us two days ago that 224 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: this lawsuit would be on the way, and now it 225 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: is reality, suing the President over his attempt to fire 226 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: her for alleged mortgage fraud. Mortgage fraud, challenging his claim 227 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: that she may have lied on the mortgage application, and 228 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: of course in a fraud case, you have to prove 229 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 2: that it was intentional, realizing we're talking about documents here, 230 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: mortgage applications in this case, according to what we understand 231 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: from the White House, she wrote that in both cases 232 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: she would be a full time resident. Part of this case, 233 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: the defense will zero in on the idea that this 234 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: may have simply been a clerical error. 235 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: Is where we start with. 236 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: Tyler Kendall, Bloomberg Washington Correspondent has the latest on all 237 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: of this, including the response, the reaction from the White House. 238 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: She's on the North lawn, Tyler, what do we know? 239 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 7: Yeah, hey, Joe, Well we really have gotten no signs 240 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 7: from this White House that they are going to let 241 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 7: up on their pressure campaign against the Central Bank and 242 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 7: now Fed Governor Lisa Cook. We should say that we 243 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 7: had breaking news in the last hour that a ten 244 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 7: am hearing has been set for tomorrow inside a federal 245 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 7: courthouse here in Washington, where a judge is going to 246 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 7: hear a Cook's request for what's known as a temporary 247 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 7: restraining or or. This is going to decide whether or 248 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 7: not she's able to retain her seat, perhaps even have 249 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 7: a vote in that September FMC meeting while the broader 250 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 7: case about the firing plays out in court. Of course, 251 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,599 Speaker 7: that issue here has to do with what we have 252 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 7: been talking about, this issue of cause. The White House today, 253 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 7: in a statement through the White House Press Secretary, says 254 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 7: that the White House has found sufficient cause to fire 255 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 7: Cook and that this is well within President Trump's right 256 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 7: his domain to do so. However, the idea of cause 257 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 7: it's not explicitly defined. This is outlined in section ten 258 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 7: of the Federal Reserve Act of nineteen thirteen that says 259 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 7: he has to prove this cause, but historically it's been 260 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 7: meant to mean malfeasance, neglect of ignoring duties while on 261 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 7: the job. But at this point these are just allegations, 262 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 7: no formal charges have been brought. I was pretty struck 263 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 7: during your conversation with White House Trade Advisor Peter Navarro yesterday, 264 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 7: who gave us a little bit of insight into how 265 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 7: the White House might be playing this down the road, 266 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 7: saying that it doesn't matter that these allegations have to 267 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 7: do with her private conduct, nothing to do with her 268 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 7: job at the Federal Reserve. Now, in that filing, we 269 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 7: did hear from Cook's attorney and we got perhaps an 270 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 7: outline of some of the arguments to come. She didn't 271 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 7: explicitly deny the allegations, but did give us a little 272 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 7: bit of a preview that perhaps when it comes to 273 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 7: the issue with these applications, that they were mislabeled unintentionally, 274 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 7: and that is really one of the key things here 275 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 7: that the court is going to have to decide. 276 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 3: Joe, Well, that's really important stuff. 277 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: And we do have an emergency hearing, as Tyler mentioned, 278 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: set for tomorrow morning. 279 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 3: So Tyler, we're going to do this all over again tomorrow. 280 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: It looks like, and we do appreciate the very latest 281 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: from the White House Bloomberg's Michael McKee has also been 282 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: all over this, and he joins us from World headquarters 283 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: in New York. Of course, the man who brings you 284 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: coverage of the Federal Reserve and is in the room 285 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: with Jay Powell for the news conferences. Michael, you've been 286 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: learning a bit more about Lisa Cook. She's been working 287 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: from home. Do we have any idea about how this 288 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: will play out tomorrow in this emergency hearing? 289 00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: We don't. 290 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 8: Although she does not have to the hearing, her lawyers 291 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 8: will be there for her. It's not a hearing before 292 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 8: a jury or anything like that. It's arguments made by 293 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 8: the lawyers which will be backed up in writing by 294 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 8: their pleadings for the judge to make a decision. However, 295 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 8: we have been reading the request. I have been reading 296 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 8: the request for this temporary restraining order that would keep 297 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 8: her in place until all this moves through the court 298 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 8: and we get the closest thing we have had to 299 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 8: a defense from her on the mortgage allegations. The lawyers say, Consequently, 300 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 8: neither the type of offense the President cited nor the 301 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 8: threadbare evidence against Governor Cook would constitute cause for removal, 302 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 8: even if the president's allegations were true, which they are not. 303 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 8: So it does appear that Cook is pleading innocent in 304 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 8: a way to this, that she did not do anything wrong. 305 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 8: And as Tyler was saying, there are some hints as 306 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 8: to what might have happened, but that probably is a 307 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 8: story for another day. We'll get more information on that 308 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 8: as it develops. 309 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: Okay, what are the odds that she's actually going to 310 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: take part in next month's. 311 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 8: Meeting, Mike, It's a little hard to say at this point. 312 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 8: If this follows the pattern that we saw in the 313 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 8: Wilcox case, gwyn Wilcox from the National Labor Relations Board, 314 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 8: they will go to the district court, and given the 315 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 8: pleadings that they've had so far that I have seen, 316 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 8: it does appear that she will probably get that temporary 317 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 8: restraining order from the district court, which means that immediately 318 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 8: the Trump administration goes to the US Court of Appeals 319 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 8: to try to get that overturned. And in Wilcox case, 320 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 8: it was overturned. But how fast all that happens isn't clear. 321 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 8: We're going to get the TRORO hearing tomorrow at ten 322 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 8: am Eastern time. We could see a decision by the 323 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 8: judge within the day. Then you have the weekend, and 324 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 8: at that point we wait for the appeals to hit 325 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 8: the appeals court, and then the appeals court will have 326 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 8: to schedule a hearing. So the closer you get to 327 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 8: September seventeenth, the more likelihood she might actually get to 328 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 8: stay there. If tomorrow the judge decides she can remain. 329 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 2: White House feels like it already has not only the 330 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 2: grounds but the due process under its belt. That's what 331 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: Peter Navarro told me last night when we talked about this. Michael, 332 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: what do you make of the approach that the documents 333 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: themselves are due process? 334 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 8: That is not going to pass in any court of law. 335 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 8: Due process means you get to face your accuser and 336 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 8: answer the charges and get a chance to show your 337 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 8: innocent and in this case, that was never provided as 338 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 8: the charging, as a lawsuit charges. She was never even 339 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 8: told that she was going to be fired. She learned 340 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 8: about it from the President's Trump's social feed, So in 341 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 8: this case, there was never any attempt to find out 342 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 8: what the circumstances around this were. 343 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,239 Speaker 2: Fascinating as always, Michael McKee, thank you so much, Live 344 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 2: from World Headquarters in New York. Michael has been instrumental 345 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: in our coverage here of this case since it was 346 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: first threatened. We'll go back to what Peter Navarro said 347 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 2: in our conversation last evening when I asked him about 348 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: due process in this case. 349 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 350 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 4: On the face of it, that's malfeasans. Now, the statue 351 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 4: doesn't say the malfeasans has to happen while you're in 352 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 4: office in the FED. It just says malfeasans. This is 353 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 4: due process. The president has the power to do exactly 354 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 4: what she's doing. Fire her for cause in this case, malfeasans. 355 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: This is where we start our conversation with Donald Air. 356 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 2: I told you he would be with us, and he 357 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 2: joins in studio the former deputy Attorney General and the 358 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: President George H. W. Bush administration, also former Principal Deputy 359 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 2: Solicitor General. This man knows what it's like to argue 360 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: a case before the Supreme Court, and we want to 361 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: take a thirty thousand foot view on everything that's been 362 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 2: going on here the last couple of days in Washington. 363 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 2: Donald are, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's 364 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,719 Speaker 2: great to see you. 365 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 3: Thank you. It's good just to start broadly with. 366 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: What we just heard, and I know you were listening 367 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: as I was talking to Michael McKee and what we 368 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 2: just heard from Peter Navarro. 369 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 3: How should we define due process in this case? 370 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 9: Well, I think I think due process, as was just said, 371 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 9: is a real process that involves an opportunity to have 372 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 9: a hearing, and the uh, you know, the situation here 373 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 9: is like so many other things that we're seeing now 374 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 9: where actions are being taken that are going forward, and 375 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 9: the impression that one gets because they're allowed to go 376 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 9: forward is that there's a power there to do it, 377 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 9: and the reality is that in many cases there's not. 378 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 9: What's going on is courts have looked at a great 379 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 9: many things that the President has done, and the lower 380 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 9: courts have in many many cases ent said that this 381 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 9: is unacceptable, it should be stayed, and then the Supreme Court, 382 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 9: without actually deciding the propriety of the ultimate action, has 383 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 9: essentially given discretion and given leeway to the administration. So 384 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 9: I think, you know, I think the Cook issue is 385 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 9: one of many, but I think we have a tendency 386 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 9: to want to look at the specifics and spend a 387 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 9: lot of time talking about the specifics. What's far more 388 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 9: important than any one of these situations is the pattern 389 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 9: that's clearly emerged since the inauguration, which is a pattern 390 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 9: of Donald Trump, in one instance after another, working to 391 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 9: essentially overthrow the norms, procedures, checks of our process. And 392 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 9: that's the real concern that we should all have. I 393 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 9: understand the need to cover the new use as it 394 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 9: happens every day, and the stuff that's thrown against the 395 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 9: wall has got to be reported, but focusing only on 396 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 9: that and not on the bigger picture is missing the 397 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 9: fundamental point. 398 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: Well, let's stay big picture, because before you join us, 399 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: we were also talking about the head of the CDC 400 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: being fired. We had the head of the BLS. I 401 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 2: could go down the rap sheet for you. Here is 402 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: is this composite that you're referring to unconstitutional? 403 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 9: Well, yeah, it's not only unconstitutional, it's a systematic assault 404 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 9: on all the things that we fundamentally have relied on, 405 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 9: much of it based on the Constitution. And you can 406 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 9: just you can go through just a collection of general 407 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 9: things that I think most listeners would probably acknowledge. One 408 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 9: is just on a fundamental level, we're dealing with the 409 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 9: president who is not he doesn't live in a fact 410 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 9: driven world. He basically makes up his own facts. If 411 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 9: he doesn't like the facts, he fires somebody like the 412 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 9: the you know, the the Bureau of of of Labor 413 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 9: Statistics head. But but he makes up his own facts, 414 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 9: so he's not fact driven. The second thing is that 415 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 9: there's been a tremendous set of threats against people to 416 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 9: neutralize the checks and balances. They're they're they're the threats 417 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 9: against Republican Congress people to be primary. Now that's not unconstitutional, 418 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 9: but it's an effort to eliminate the working of our systems, 419 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 9: put a new burden on the courts. 420 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 3: Well, that's right, and it gets driven to the courts. 421 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 9: The uh, the whole idea of undermining checks and balances, 422 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 9: of of essentially figuring out ways. You know, part of 423 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 9: our checks and balances involves the FED. The FED is 424 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 9: a very important part for the business world and for 425 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 9: our economy. And Trump is now working very hard to 426 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 9: overcome the independence of the FED. But he's also doing 427 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 9: a lot of other things. If you look at the 428 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 9: Department of Justice, the Department of Justice has been for 429 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 9: the last fifty years since Watergate, really highly respected as 430 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 9: an independent, fair, even handed. People in this country have 431 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 9: not worried for most of the last fifty years about 432 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 9: being having the Justice Department come after them for no 433 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 9: good reason. Well they do now worry about that, and 434 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 9: there's reason to worry about that. And so this again 435 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 9: is the president trying to neutralize people who will stand 436 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 9: in his way. That's the bigger concern and the problem 437 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 9: with getting obsessed with every I don't want to call 438 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 9: them little because they're not. They're not little things that 439 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 9: are happening, but they're individual things, and if you view 440 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 9: them in isolation, you miss the much bigger picture. 441 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll stay with the forest here for a moment. 442 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: Our blisteners and viewers should know Donald eyre argued nineteen 443 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 2: times before the US Supreme Court. 444 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 3: So you've been doing this for a minute. Have you 445 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: ever seen a stress test like this? No, I mean 446 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 3: absolutely not. 447 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 9: I mean I think that's the thing that I think 448 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 9: is easy to lose perspective about. 449 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: Is that what we've never had in this country. We 450 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 3: had a civil war. 451 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 9: We had a breakdown of the national sort of social 452 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 9: fabric as a result of conflict in terms of interests 453 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 9: between parts of the country. So We've been through a lot, 454 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 9: but I think we've never had We've never had what 455 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 9: the founders were, even after all the great work they 456 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 9: did on the Constitution, still concerned about, and that was 457 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 9: they were very concerned about the one thing thing that 458 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 9: could happen, and that's the man on the white horse, 459 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 9: the person who is somehow able to pursue his own 460 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 9: individual goals, to pursue his own power, to somehow appeal 461 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 9: to enough people to get control of the country. That's 462 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 9: what they were worried about. And we've never had that 463 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 9: happen here before, and we're having it happen now. 464 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 3: That's what this is. That's what this is. That is 465 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: absolutely what this is. And all you got to do 466 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 3: is put together all the. 467 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 9: Stories that you and all the other media report on 468 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 9: to go back over six months and say and look 469 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 9: at what each one is. Each one is an effort 470 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 9: somehow or other by this president to assert his independent control, 471 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 9: free of the limitations that are built into our system, 472 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 9: so that he can do whatever he wants. That's what 473 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 9: we are dealing with, and that's what people need to 474 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 9: know about it. And that's what I think I will say, 475 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 9: especially I think the people most susceptible to understanding this 476 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 9: and recognizing it. 477 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 3: Are a lot of your viewers. 478 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 9: I think the viewers of Bloomberg are the kind of 479 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 9: people who think seriously about stuff, and thinking seriously about 480 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 9: this means not just thinking about it on the isolated level, 481 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 9: think about it in the big picture. 482 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: We've got about a minute left, and I'm struck by 483 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: your tone and your words today. And I've been lucky 484 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 2: to be talking to you for a few years. 485 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 3: You're worried. I'm very worried. 486 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 9: I'm very worried, and I think I know lots of 487 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 9: people who are very worried. And I think it's very 488 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 9: easy to well, it's natural. I don't want to. I 489 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 9: don't I'm not here to criticize people. I think it's 490 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 9: very natural for people to want to get on with 491 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 9: their lives, to want to think about so far, I'm okay. 492 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 9: Things are going along. It's very strange, but I'm okay, 493 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 9: and I'm hoping things will keep being okay. And the 494 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 9: stock market's still doing pretty well, and and people want 495 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 9: to want it to be okay. It's not okay, is 496 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 9: the issue. It's not okay because the president of the 497 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 9: United States is dismantling our fundamental system. 498 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: Donald Air, many thanks for your insights and joining us 499 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 2: today on Bloomberg TV and Radio. This is Bloomberg. Stay 500 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 2: with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more 501 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: coming up after this. 502 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 503 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 504 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: Applecarklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen 505 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 506 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 507 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: The press briefing is underway at the White House right now. 508 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: Press Secretary Caroline Levitt holding forth with reporters. We just 509 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: got a bit of news. President Trump will be addressing 510 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: the UN General Assembly on September twenty third. That's a Tuesday. 511 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: Donald Trump back to UNGA. As we understand from the 512 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 2: Press secretary, we're going to be listening for questions about 513 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: the firing of Lisa Cook, about the firing of the 514 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 2: CDC director, which is actually something they're talking about right 515 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 2: now as well. Peter Navarro's comment to us right here 516 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg TV and Radio last evening that Russia's war 517 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: in Ukraine is quote unquote Modi's war. Making that point 518 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: the day the fifty percent tariffs landed on India. It 519 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: is a beautiful day in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, mostly Sonny seventy seven, 520 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: perfect time for Vice President J. 521 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: D Vance to touch down. 522 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: And he is in Lacrosse today to toup the big 523 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: beautiful bill. 524 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 3: But we're not calling it that, I think any longer. 525 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: He's actually at a steel fabricating facility to talk about 526 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,719 Speaker 2: the Big Bills benefits for manufacturing go figure. Of course 527 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: JD Vance grew up in the Rust Belt. He's talking 528 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: to the folks who brought him to the dance here. 529 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: But as we heard from Donald Trump just two days 530 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 2: ago in the Cabinet meeting, the branding issue is what 531 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: needs to be addressed on the Republican side of the aisle. 532 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 3: Sure you've got the road trip. And it's not just JD. Vance. 533 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 2: Any number of Cabinet secretaries are fanning out across the 534 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: country to deliver speeches to try to close the deal, 535 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: to try to sell what has already been passed, and 536 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 2: a lot of lawmakers are trying to do that too 537 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: during the August recess. But as Donald Trump said himself, 538 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: the branding of the bill, the BBB, the Big beautiful 539 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: bill we heard about one hundred times a day through 540 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: the whole debate might be making the job a little 541 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: more difficult. 542 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 543 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 10: So the bill that I'm not going to use the 544 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 10: term great, big beautiful. That was good for getting it approved, 545 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 10: but it's not good for explaining to people what is 546 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 10: all about. It's a massive tax cut for the middle class. 547 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 10: It's a massive tax cut for jobs, and it's I mean, 548 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 10: think of it, no tax on tips, no tax on 549 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 10: Social Security. So seniors, I don't know how you can 550 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 10: vote for anybody else. 551 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 3: There you have it. So what do we call it? 552 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: I guess we're selling a whole bunch of different components 553 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 2: of what we used to call the big beautiful bill. 554 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: Let's assimbil our political panel. Both experts in messaging. Jeanie 555 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: Shanzano was with US Bloomberg Politics contributor Democracy visiting fellow 556 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 2: at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. Republican strategist Lisa Camuso Miller, 557 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: former RNC communications director, host of the Friday Reporter podcast, 558 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: and a veteran of a former Republican Speaker's office. Lisa, 559 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 2: let's get into this here, because this is a pretty 560 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: interesting situation that we're talking about a bill it's already passed, 561 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: that the administration is still trying to sell bumping into 562 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: a branding issue because nobody knows exactly what a big 563 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 2: beautiful bill is. 564 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: You've experienced this before. 565 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: After you pass a major legislative accomplishment, how do you 566 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 2: sell it to the people who don't understand it. 567 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 11: I think you talk about it in plain English, just 568 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 11: like the President said. I mean, certainly, the President himself 569 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 11: is a marketing person. No one would ever take that. 570 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 12: Away from him. 571 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 11: And he's right in trying to illustrate and demonstrate what 572 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 11: he and the Republicans on Capitol Hill believed to be 573 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 11: a bill that was designed specifically to help the economy, 574 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 11: specifically the middle class, in a way that will make 575 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 11: a bigger difference for them. And so that I think 576 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 11: is what is happening. They're going to continue to call 577 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 11: it the one big Beautiful Bill, because that's what the 578 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 11: President called it when he arrived on Capitol Hill about 579 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 11: a six months ago and told the Congress that he 580 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 11: wanted it to be done all at one time. And 581 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 11: so now they're going to take that messaging and they're 582 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 11: going to turn it into soundbites over and over and 583 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 11: over again to make that message clear that they've done 584 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 11: what they were asked to do. 585 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 3: Well, you know, Genie. 586 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: He also said when he went to Capitol Hill behind 587 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: closed doors, reportedly he told Republican members, don't blank with Medicare, 588 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 2: don't blank with Medicaid. And of course there are changes 589 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: to these programs, specifically Medicaid in this legislation that has 590 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: upset a lot of voters of Democratic and Republican stripes. 591 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: We just heard Abigail Spanberger's new ad attacking this bill 592 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: the other day. What's the Democratic answer to this branding change? 593 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 13: Well, this has nothing to do with branding. And that's 594 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 13: where the President is dead wrong. 595 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 12: You have JD. 596 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 13: Vance out in Wisconsin today. We know that this will 597 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 13: cost Wisconsin voters, this bill almost three hundred million dollars. 598 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 12: It will strip two hundred and seventy. 599 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 13: Six thousand Wisconsinites from health coverage. From those Wisconsinites, it 600 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 13: will remove food be a snap from tens of thousands 601 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 13: of Wisconsinites and children most specifically, so the President can 602 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 13: try to dress this up anyway he wants. He can 603 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 13: try to send JD. Vance and these other surrogates out 604 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 13: to sell it. But there is a reason that members 605 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 13: of Congress on the Republican side have been avoiding going 606 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 13: out into forums with their own constituents and talking about it, 607 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 13: because it doesn't matter whether their Republican or Democrat. Voters 608 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 13: know that this bill is a bill that is going 609 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 13: to cost them dearly in terms of things that matter 610 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 13: to them, their health and the food supply and their 611 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 13: ability to pay for both. 612 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 12: So Democrats are going. 613 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 13: To be talking about the reality of this bill, and 614 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 13: I guess the President's going to continue to try to 615 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 13: pretend that a bill that is favoring the wealthy and 616 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 13: taking from the needy is something other than it is. 617 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 12: But you can't continue to make that case. 618 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 13: When people see their healthcare and their food being strung 619 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 13: from them, they will know that regardless of what any 620 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 13: of these folks say. 621 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 2: How important or how effective are these road trips anyway, Lisa, 622 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 2: I remember a President Obama lamenting the fact that they 623 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 2: didn't take a more concerted effort, make a more concerted 624 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 2: effort to travel the country and tell them what was 625 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 2: in the Affordable Care Act, that it remained confusing and 626 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 2: elusive to a lot of people. Does putting jd. Vance 627 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 2: on a plane the La Crosse actually help. 628 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 7: Well. 629 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 11: The reason why they the reason why it works, Joe, 630 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 11: is because local media will cover when the vice president 631 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 11: comes to town and when he talks about the issues 632 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 11: and what his speech addressed. And that's I think where 633 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 11: the real value is is that people will start to 634 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 11: hear about those issues as they relate to the local 635 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 11: community in their own local news coverage. And so as 636 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 11: much as Genie's not wrong about what she said about 637 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 11: the specific particulars, it's going to be a game of messaging, 638 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 11: a game of telling what it is they believe to 639 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 11: be the high lights of this particular piece of legislation. 640 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 11: And then it's incumbent on the Democratic side of the 641 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 11: aisle to talk about the types of points that Genie 642 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 11: made in order to make it more clear to the 643 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 11: voters about what it is that's included in this bill. 644 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 11: So having the vice president with a very strong voice 645 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 11: in the community definitely helps with the news coverage and 646 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 11: helping the Republicans sell their point of view on the legislation. 647 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 2: Pew Research pull Genie, the polster in you, I'm sure, 648 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: is eager to dig into this with approval ratings on 649 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: the tax legislation. You can call it whatever you want here, 650 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 2: but the numbers are the numbers. Thirty two percent approve 651 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 2: according to Pew Research, forty six percent disapprove, and twenty 652 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 2: three percent are not sure. I guess they'll be listening 653 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: to JD. Vance today. But when you see numbers like 654 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: this and you consider some of the town hall meetings 655 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 2: that the likes of Mike Flood and Brian Style had 656 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 2: to endure, what kind of work do Republicans have ahead? 657 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 12: They have an uphill battle. 658 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 13: And you were right to reference prior to Barack Obama 659 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 13: he had and the Democrats had an uphill battle. We've 660 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 13: seen this repeatedly throughout modern American history. When you pass 661 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 13: these big bills and then you go to try to 662 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 13: sell them. 663 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 12: In advance of a midterm it is very difficult to do. 664 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 13: And we've been talking here about the impact on healthcare 665 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 13: and food assistants, but let's just look at other things. 666 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 13: Three point three plus trillion dollars added to an already 667 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 13: enormous debt, which is very concerning to voters, and on 668 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 13: top of that, a voter base, even on the Republican side, 669 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 13: that is frustrated by what they describe as endless wars. 670 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 13: And you have for the first time a military budget 671 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,439 Speaker 13: of over one trillion dollars, and in order to pay 672 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 13: for that, you've taken away people's healthcare and their food. 673 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 13: So those facts will matter, And jade E Vance will 674 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 13: go out and try to talk about this as a 675 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,839 Speaker 13: tax cut for working families, but that is going to 676 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 13: be a very difficult sell for Republicans. But we have 677 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 13: to see if Democrats can be united and stay. 678 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 12: On message and make this case. 679 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 13: This is why the president is not talking about this 680 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 13: this much. 681 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 12: He's talking about a lot of other. 682 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,919 Speaker 13: Things like crime and safety and immigration that he thinks 683 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 13: are much more within his bailiwick and will gain him support. 684 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 13: He doesn't want to talk about the impact on people's 685 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 13: pocketbooks because what he's done is so widely unpopular according 686 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 13: to the polls. 687 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 2: Boy, we're certainly being reminded of the bad blood that 688 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 2: lawmakers left town with after passing said big, beautiful bill, 689 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 2: but also the recisions package that followed him. Boy, that 690 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: seemed to be the backbreaker here, Lisa, with Democrats telling 691 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 2: us on the air they didn't see how we could 692 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 2: avoid a government shutdown at this point, because there's so 693 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,959 Speaker 2: little trust between d's and rs to make a deal 694 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 2: on funding the government. We've got a little bit less 695 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 2: than a minute. Are we going to shut down the 696 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 2: end of September? 697 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, it looks Joe like that's really the demo, 698 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 11: that's where we're headed. You have to believe that the 699 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 11: President's not going to want that to happen, and so 700 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 11: there's going to be I think that the Congress have 701 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 11: continues to surprise us in the way that they get 702 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 11: they're getting their work done, so that is a threat. 703 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 11: I think government is very much at threat, but I 704 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 11: think ultimately what we'll see is that they'll pull it 705 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 11: out and that the government will not shut down because 706 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 11: that's not the kind of message that they want to 707 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 11: be spreading across the country. 708 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 2: Fascinating. Lisa Kamuso Miller, Jeanie Shanzano. Many thanks to both 709 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 2: of you for the insight. It's a great panel today. 710 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make 711 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 2: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 712 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 713 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at New Time 714 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 2: Eastern at bloomberg dot com,