1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: wild life, wild places and the people who dedicate their 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: lives to conserving both. Big shout out to ONEX Hunt 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: for their support of this podcast. I'm your host, Lake Pickle, 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: and man am I ever so excited for today's episode. 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Today's typic of discussion is about an animal that I'm 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: most sure all of you are familiar with. Heck, all 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: of us know what beavers are known for doing. They're 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: the original subjects for the saying you had one job. 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: They see flowing water and they go absolutely not. And 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: when they wake up in the morning, I'm pretty sure 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: they say to themselves, it seems like a good day 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: to build a dam. Okay, I'm mostly joking here if 14 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: you can't tell, but y'all get what I'm saying. Beaver's 15 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: are primarily known for doing one thing, building dams. It's 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse. It's what has made them 17 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: get the label as a nuisance species in many circles 18 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: and one of the factors that has made them popular 19 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: amongst trappers. However, in today's episode, we're gonna be looking 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: at beaver's in a different life, possibly in a way 21 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: you've never thought of them before. It's time to add 22 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: some much needed complexity to the way this critter is perceived. 23 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: Let's dive in. Before we dive in with our two guests, 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to do my best impression of my friend 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: Brent Reeves, and I'm going to tell you a story. 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: It's one that happened long ago, and it will set 27 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: the stage perfectly for where we're going with this. Yall ready, 28 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: here we go. This is the story of the parachuting beavers. 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, I did say parashuting beavers, and it takes 30 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: place in Idaho in nineteen forty eight. Now, as we 31 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: alluded to earlier, beavers build damps. Theyre what is referred 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: to as a keystone species, which is a term that 33 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: applies to one particular organism that makes a disproportionately large 34 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: influence on its environment relative to its often low abundance, 35 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: which in Layman's terms, means a small amount of beavers 36 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: can a big amount of difference. Another important thing to 37 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: know about a keystone species is that they are critical 38 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 1: for maintaining biodiversity as well as habitat structure, and their 39 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: removal can often cause significant ecological shifts, which again in 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: Layman's terms, means taking beavers out of an area. It's 41 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: gonna shake some things up. Some say that a beaver 42 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: could transform a landscape like no other creature in the 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: entire animal kingdom. This innate ability that beavers have to 44 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: engineer their own ecosystems that they reside in is the 45 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: most important part of what was going on in Idaho 46 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty eight. You see, it was becoming a problem. 47 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: It was just after World War Two and people had 48 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: discovered how beautiful places like McCall and Pyette Lake were. 49 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: Folks were building homes, setting up communities and places where 50 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: beavers had been hanging around and doing their thing for centuries. 51 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: As the communities grew larger, the conflicts with beavers increased. 52 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: The beavers were wiping out trees, riparian bush, damning creeks, 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: causing them to flood, and risking serious damage to the 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: town and its residences. So the question was what do 55 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: you do about this? That's where creativity and initiative end 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: of the story in the form of a man named 57 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: Elmo Heater. Now, besides having a super cool name, Elmo 58 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: worked for the Idaho Fishing Game right in the McCaul 59 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: Lake area. He had experience with beavers, and he was 60 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: tasked with finding a solution. Elmo figured out early on 61 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: that relocation of these beavers was by far the best answer. However, 62 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: this solution was a lot easier said than done. An 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: area called the Chamberlain Basin would be the perfect place 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: to relocate these beavers. It was said to be a 65 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: beaver paradise and that their presence would be beneficial to 66 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: the habitat. The Chamberlain Basin lies in what is now 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: called the frank Church River of No Return wilderness area. 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: It was about one hundred miles away and it contained 69 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: no roads and was by all accounts rugged country. There 70 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: would be no driving in there. There wouldn't be landing 71 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: any planes, helicopters, or even a hot air balloon. I 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: suppose you could pack them in there on foot, but 73 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: no one was volunteering to do that, and they actually 74 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: attempted mules and horses at one point, but it was 75 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: said that the pack animals became spooky and quarrelsome when 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: loaded down with a struggling pair of odorous live beavers, 77 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: and so Elmo was forced to get creative, Like we 78 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: said at the beginning of the story. This was right 79 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: after World War Two. Elmo knew of a surplus of parachutes, 80 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: and that's when he formed the idea of paratrooping these 81 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: beavers from a plane into the back country of the 82 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: Chamberlain Basin. Just imagine how that went the first time 83 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: he presented that idea to a meeting of his peers. 84 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: This is speculative on my part here, but I just 85 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: have to imagine that he got at least one or 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: two you're crazy remarks throwing his direction. However, Elmo was 87 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: confident that it would work, that it would solve the 88 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: problem in growing communities, and it would help the habitat 89 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: of the Chamberlain Basin, a real win win win situation. 90 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: Those are rare. Now that the plan was hatched, it 91 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: had to be carried out. It's one thing to say 92 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: you're going to air bomb some live beavers into the 93 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: wilderness with the safe landing. It's another thing to actually 94 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: figure out how to do it. The first idea was 95 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: a woven willow box, and the premise was that these 96 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: beavers would hit the ground chew their way out freedom, 97 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: which I supposed. It's a pretty good idea in theory, 98 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: but it ended up not working because the beavers commenced 99 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: to chewing the second that they were put in the 100 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: woven boxes. This gave high risk that the beavers would 101 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: either bust loose inside the plane or bust loose while 102 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: they were still high in the sky on the parachute ride. 103 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: Neither of those are ideal, so Elmo ended up designing 104 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: a box that the beavers were unable to get their 105 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: teeth around and would then open upon impact. It was 106 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: tested first with some dummy weights, which appeared to work. 107 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: Then they found an older male beaver in Fyi. This 108 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: is probably my favorite part of this story. Elmo decided 109 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: to name this beaver Geronimo, seemed fitting. Luckily for both 110 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: Geronimo and Elmo, the box worked. They tested it over 111 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: and over again to make sure of it, which meant 112 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: Geronimo the beaver took a parachute ride over and over again, 113 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: and once they tested it enough to the point that 114 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: they were all convinced that it would work, it was 115 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: time to start a fish relocating beavers. As a reward 116 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: for all of this, old Geronimo became the first male 117 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: beaver to arrive in the Chamberlain basin with three other 118 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: female friends. It said from the observers that once Geronimo 119 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: figured out that his air travel days were over, he 120 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: started immediately building a colony with his lady friends. Hats 121 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: off to you, Geronimo. After this first successful relocation of 122 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: beavers from the heavens dropping down into this dry basin 123 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: like a mana from above, seventy six more beavers followed suit. 124 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: All were in agreeance that this was a successful project 125 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: that created some amazing habitat in now what is the 126 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: largest protected roadless forest in the lower forty eight. It 127 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: was so successful that some modern biologists wonder why they 128 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: didn't continue to move beavers past nineteen forty eight. However, 129 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: it is highly likely that the offspring of those first 130 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: beavers are still living and helping the habitat of the 131 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: frank Church Wilderness to this very day. Pretty crazy, right, 132 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: But let's pause for a second, let's zoom out on 133 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: all this. Why am I sharing this story with you? Well, 134 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: the reason is because, as listeners of this show, you know, 135 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: we focus in on how we as humans interact with wildlife. 136 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: Our relationship with wildlife. The relationship with humans and beavers 137 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: is long and it's convoluted. Can beavers be a nuisance? Yes, 138 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: of course they can. We see that today and we 139 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: saw it in that story. But can beaver's also be 140 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: incredibly beneficial for wildlife, wildlife habitat and to humans also? Yes, 141 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: Like most other facets of life, there's complexity to this. 142 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: So we learned about the beaver problems and solutions of 143 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight. However, I'm interested in what's going on 144 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: with beavers today, and believe me, there's plenty going on. 145 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: It's time for you to meet Nate Norman, the lead 146 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: field biologist for the Beaver Ecology and Relocation Collaborative at 147 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: Utah State University, an organization that was founded to enhance 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: and support the practice of relocating beavers to improve degraded riverscapes. 149 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: They're a well established program now, but I want to 150 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: first learn how they got. 151 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: Started, specifically in this area in northern Utah. There were 152 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: two college professors, Joe Wheaton and Nick Bowis, and they 153 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: came up with an idea of doing fake beaver dams. 154 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: They're called BDA's beaver dam analogs, and they were working 155 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: on projects in northern Utah and southern Idaho and realized 156 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: that these fake beaver dams did a lot of the 157 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: restoration work that they were hoping for, but that over 158 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: time they broke down. So the real goal was to 159 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: get beavers on there and let the beavers do the 160 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: work rather than having humans come in and fix these 161 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: fake beaver dams. 162 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: Did anyone know that there were some folks already making 163 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: artificial beaver dams or beaverdam analogs as a form of 164 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: wetland and habitat restoration, which to me is kind of 165 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: hard not to see the humor in because it seems 166 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: like a whole lot of time, effort, and money to 167 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: build a structure that a beaver will build you for free, 168 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 1: which I suppose is why they eventually moved to beaver relocation. 169 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: But I think it's an important fact to highlight as 170 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: we move forward that the need for the water daming 171 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: impact on the landscape was something that people were already 172 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: becoming aware of. 173 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're hitting on something that you know is profound 174 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: in the fact that that is why they had to 175 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: make fake beaver dams. The thought is is that they 176 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: don't want beavers on their properties. You can't control a beaver, right, 177 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: you want a beaver to build a dam there and 178 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: there and there, but not over here, and you don't 179 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: want it to flood your road or you don't want 180 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: it to you know, out here, block irrigation ditches, that 181 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 2: sort of thing. And so we can go in and 182 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: we can put them right where we want them. When 183 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: a beaver gets in there, then they got their own 184 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: mind and they're going to do their own thing. And 185 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 2: you know, hopefully they're going to help you out and 186 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: create the ponds and the water where you want them, 187 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: but they're also going to create some issues where you 188 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: don't want them. And so that's you know, kind of 189 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: why our program got started. In certain areas, beavers are 190 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: a nuisance. And you know the fact is is that 191 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: before you know, the West was developed, the trappers came 192 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 2: through and they they were the first ones to come 193 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: into these areas and the very first thing they did 194 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: removed all the beavers right. So then behind them they've 195 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: kind of blazed the trail and settlers start coming in. 196 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: But settlers move into an area that has now been debiabered, right, 197 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: and the beavers have been moved out of the area. 198 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 2: So they look at these stream banks that are had 199 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 2: been flooded by beaver dams that have now been broke down, 200 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 2: and these lush, rich soils are there because of the 201 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: beaver dams, and now they're developing or moving into those 202 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: areas to plant their crops. So you can just see 203 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: the progression as to how we just moved right into 204 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: the areas where the beavers were, and now we have 205 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: an issue with the beavers coming back to these areas 206 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: and creating issues for us. I don't think we're going 207 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: to move out of the beavers bottom lands anytime soon. 208 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: But luckily here in Utah, we have a lot of 209 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: public land. We have areas that it is, you know, 210 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: very open, and there is not a lot of infrastructure, 211 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: so we can actually move these beavers into these areas 212 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: to create this habitat. I don't know if this would 213 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: work as well, you know, in somewhere out east, where 214 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: you know, you have a much bigger human population, but 215 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: it works for us here. 216 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: Let's think back to the parachute beaver story for a minute. 217 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: If y'all remember back in nineteen forty eight, the original 218 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: conflict with beavers arose because civilizations were moving into areas 219 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: where beavers had been existing for years. Fast forward to 220 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: what's happening today, and it's really not that much different. 221 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: As Nate outlined, some of these places that we as 222 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: humans choose to reside, plant crops, build houses, and so 223 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: on are also areas that beaver like, and thus we 224 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: have conflict and there are definitely real instances where beavers 225 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: can become nuisances. However, much like Elmo, a few folks 226 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: decided to get creative. 227 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we call it a win win win, Right. You've 228 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 2: got the land owners, you know, that are having problems 229 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 2: and they're real you know, we had we had lady 230 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: call us up one day when a beaver had come 231 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: down and shoot down a tree in her backyard and 232 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: her daughter's wedding was, you know, planned to be there 233 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: that weekend. You know, underneath these trees they just drow. 234 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: But it can also be a win for the environment 235 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: because when we look at a lot of lands after 236 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: the trappers came through, you know and just almost eliminated 237 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 2: the beavers, they'd never recovered to that stage that they 238 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 2: were prior to that, So there was still room on 239 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: the landscape for more beavers. And we can take these 240 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: beavers and we can move them up into those areas 241 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: where they create these habitats that are great for you know, 242 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: wildlife fish. But we're even finding ranchers out here are 243 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: wanting beavers on their property because when they push that 244 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: water out and they create more grass and more green 245 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: not only from their pond, but also from the groundwater 246 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: that is seeping out of those ponds and kind of 247 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: widening out those riparian areas. That's just more feed for 248 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: their sheep and their cattle. Also, one of the things 249 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: that we have to do out here, when we get 250 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: these big snowfalls, everything kind of just washes down quickly 251 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: in the springtime, creating floods, creating issues in the spring. 252 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: Then everything dries up during the summer. So the ranchers 253 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 2: go out and they build stock ponds and then they 254 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: do this a wild bike, two palm guzzlers. But when 255 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: the spring runoff comes off and it washes out those 256 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: burns that they built for these these ponds, you know, 257 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 2: somebody's got to go back up there and fix it. 258 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 2: In contrasts, you got beaber's up there and the spring 259 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: runoff comes down and washes out one of their dams. 260 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: Now the beaver fixes it. And not only that, but 261 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: then they create three or more ponds form their upstream. 262 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: So you know, it just makes sense that, you know, 263 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 2: getting more beavers on the landscape, holding that water up, 264 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: making it come down slower in the spring time, and 265 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: preserving more of it up in our mountains through the 266 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: summer is just really good for everybody. 267 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: All right, So we have a much better idea of 268 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: what a beaver can offer to a landscape. I'm now 269 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: interested in how they got this program up and rolling. 270 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: There was a student in one of the classes and 271 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: him and his dad were trappers, and his dad owned 272 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: a taxidermy store or whatever you call it in the 273 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: valley here, and after taking the course, he started to 274 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: talk to his dad and said, you know, we shouldn't 275 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: be trapping out all these beavers. You know that they're 276 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: really good for the other wildlife and habitat. And his 277 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: dad was kind of like, well, you know, the guy 278 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: that I'm trapping on, we don't trap him, He's going 279 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: to have somebody else trap him out. 280 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: This is one of the most interesting points in the 281 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: whole story to me. A student who operated a taxi 282 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: derby business with his father that were also both trappers 283 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: that had been trapping beavers for years are the two 284 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: individuals who originally thought of the idea to relocate due 285 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: to the potential benefits that it would create for other wildlife. 286 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: This idea led them to approaching the Utah Division of 287 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: Wildlife Resources, who was excited about this notion because of 288 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: the potential benefits it would make on the wildlife and 289 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: the habitat, so they proceeded forward with it, which eventually 290 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: led to Nate's initial involvement with the program. 291 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: They asked me if I was interested in learning how 292 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: to live trap, So I said, yeah, sure, you know, 293 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: I want to give it a try. My background was 294 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: really in wetlands, but I was interested in how the 295 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: beavers created wetlands and that sort of thing and the 296 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: benefits of that. So I went out with the student 297 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: and his dad and and they kind of taught me 298 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: how to trap, and we were sort of the blind 299 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: leading the blind. They knew how to trap, but they 300 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: didn't know much about live trapping. So we worked on it. 301 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: We figured it out together. And then it turns out 302 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: there was a guy at the Forest Service who was 303 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: also kind of a respiration biologist who was interested in 304 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: this stuff as well, and he was also a beaver trapper. 305 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: So he got involved, We got involved with the State 306 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: Wildlife that to try to come up with some ideas. 307 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: She was the one who came up with the quarantine 308 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: and some methods for kind of steading up our facility. 309 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: And then that second year, I guess it was, Joe 310 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: got together with me and he says, you know, I've 311 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: been talking with the UDWR and they think that they 312 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: want to get more trappers involved and bring on some 313 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: people to do live trapping, but they want to kind 314 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: of a certification program for them, you know, so they 315 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: want to train them. And I thought that would be 316 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: great because I could really use some more training. Like 317 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: I said, we'd only caught five beavers the year before. 318 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: Joe said, no, no, no, you're not getting it man, you're 319 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 2: teaching the training. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. 320 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: I'm only trapped five beavers. I can't do this. But 321 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 2: that's how I kind of got started. They put me 322 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: in contact with some people. There were some organizations in 323 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: some tribes up in Washington and Oregon that were doing this, 324 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 2: and so they put me in contact with some people there. 325 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: They came down and helped me do the training, and 326 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 2: the State Wildlife BET assisted with the training, and we 327 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: expected to get a group of trappers from around Utah 328 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: that would be interested in doing this live trapping. And 329 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 2: one of the reasons was we were we were and 330 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: still are paying the trappers one hundred dollars of beaver 331 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: to live trap rather than lethal trap. But what ended 332 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: up happening is we got a bunch of professionals from 333 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 2: the wildlife agencies from all the surround states that were 334 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: also interested in these kind of programs who wanted to 335 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 2: learn more about it. So interesting we only got i 336 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: think one trapper and two students from the university that 337 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: took the training, and everyone else was professionals from surrounding areas. 338 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: From that, you know that a lot of the other 339 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 2: states and I shouldn't say base on their stuff on 340 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: what we were doing, but we all kind of talked 341 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: about things that we were doing and trying and what 342 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 2: had worked and what hadn't. And so the training kind 343 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: of just brought a bunch of people together to figure 344 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: this out and what we should be doing to do 345 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: these these relocations. 346 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: So, as is common with many startups or new ideas, 347 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out year one of this beaver 348 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: lab trapping and relocating was a bit of a learning curve, 349 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: only five beavers trapped in total, working with veterinarians to 350 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: establish a quarantine protocol and trying to expand the program 351 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: if possible. Well it must have worked because for the 352 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: second year they were able to grow and get some 353 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: trappers involved, with many of them being professionals from surrounding areas. 354 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: We're going to learn more about this program and the 355 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: ins and outs of it, but first I want to 356 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: ask Nate about a very specific story that happened early 357 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: on in the program's life and that yielded some pretty 358 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: incredible results. 359 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 2: There's a ranch and it's kind of where I first 360 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: got started in all this up in Idaho, where the 361 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 2: rancher realized that his stream hit a small intermittent string 362 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: was going dry every spring, you know, after runoff it 363 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: was basically gone. But he's an older guy and he 364 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 2: remembered as a kid that that used to flow into 365 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: the midsummer, you know, even in the late summer, and 366 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 2: now every year it was going dry early spring. He thought, 367 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: you know what, I remember there being beavers up there 368 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: when I was a kid. Now we used to shoot them, 369 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 2: you know, we used to get rid of them every 370 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 2: chance we could could, you know, because we didn't we 371 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: didn't want them around them block their irrigation canal. But 372 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: we did a pretty good job because there's no more 373 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: beavers up there. So he tried to relocate some in 374 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: on his own, again probably you know, under the shade 375 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: of darkness, but they didn't stick, they wouldn't stay in 376 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 2: the area, they got killed, whatever. So at that point 377 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 2: he came down and spoke with Joe Wheaton and Nick 378 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 2: Klowas at the university about, you know, the possibility of 379 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: getting beavers up there. And that was the very first 380 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: beaver relocation project that I was involved in. And we 381 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 2: took a few beavers up there, and this is after 382 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: we had built the BDA's so the bdas create some 383 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 2: little habitat for him, some deep water so they can 384 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: hide from predators, and they stuck. Jumped forward a year 385 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: or two and a few more beavers relocated up there. 386 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: They start reproducing, and he had you know, fifty to 387 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 2: one hundred beaver dams throughout the watershed. They'd really you know, 388 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: did well. They protected them. And now we're probably nine 389 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 2: ten years from there, and he has water flowing in 390 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: that stream year long the ponds are now supporting fish 391 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: that are big enough to catch, so his granddaughter is 392 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: fishing out of the ponds, and moose have returned to 393 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: the area that he hadn't seen for, you know, thirty years. 394 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 2: So that's one really good example. 395 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: Let's highlight those impacts again, just to make sure we 396 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: don't miss anything from just the single action of reintroducing 397 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: beavers to this particular property. There is now year round 398 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: waterflow in that creek, there's ponds that are supporting small fishery, 399 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: and moose have returned to the area in which beforehand 400 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: the property owner hadn't seen them for over thirty years 401 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: or so. Is it starting to become clear the impacts 402 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: these beavers can make. It really is wild, which in 403 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: turn made a lot of sense to me why Nate 404 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: explained how the program grew so rapidly after. 405 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 2: That that second year. You know, after we got five beavers, 406 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,959 Speaker 2: we got fifty. By the next year, we got one 407 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: hundred beavers in that season. We've kind of hovered between 408 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,479 Speaker 2: fifty and seventy five beavers per season fairly consistently after that. 409 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: Not last season, but the season before that, we had 410 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: a really big runoff, and there was a lot of 411 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 2: beavers we saw as roadkill, and we can't get as 412 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 2: many beavers that year, but in general, you know, I 413 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: think we average around sixty beavers per season. We've had 414 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: such a good relationship with the trappers. That's one of 415 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: the areas where I think the word has gotten out 416 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: the most. And that's why I thought you should talk 417 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: to Hoppy. He's he's not only a big time hunter 418 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: and fisher and trapper, but he's just an interesting character. 419 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: All that is some impressive growth. Five beavers in the 420 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: first year, fifty in the second year, one hundred in 421 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: year three, and now they average around sixty a year. 422 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: And again, it's not really a shocker when the program 423 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: is yielding the kind of results that it is. But 424 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: now I'm gonna take Nate's advice and talk to this 425 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: Hoppy fellow that he mentioned. And by the way, Night 426 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: was not wrong. This guy is a character. 427 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 3: Are you running traps right now? 428 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? 429 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 4: I'm running traps right now. 430 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 3: That's great. 431 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: After giving the man some time to finish his traps, 432 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: we got into the conversation are you running traps every day? 433 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 3: Are you running the trap line every day to some extent? 434 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 2: Oh? 435 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I cause my main gig, we're due, Like I 436 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 5: manage a buffalo and elk hunting ranch. So like our 437 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 5: season ends like first week of December, So anywhere from 438 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 5: first week of December all the way through even into 439 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 5: the March, I'm running traps every single day anywhere from 440 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 5: you know, one hundred to three hundred different sets, you know, 441 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 5: just on a timeline where I'm just checking everything as 442 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 5: the need be checked and trapping as many things as 443 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 5: I possibly can. 444 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: You know, it's clear this guy gets after it in 445 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: terms of trapping. So now let zero in on the 446 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: topic of trapping beavers specifically and learn how he got 447 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: involved with the Beaver Relocation Collaborative. 448 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 5: I've been trapping, man, I don't know, it's probably my teens, 449 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 5: you know, sixteen seventeen range where I could actually drive 450 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 5: myself around and get on some stuff. But you know, 451 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 5: and that's kind of how I met Nate in the 452 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 5: first place. Is I've been you know, I had lethal 453 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 5: trapped beavers prior to hanging out with Nate and them 454 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 5: and BRC. And then they kind of turned me, so say, 455 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 5: into kind of being the full circle guy where I could, 456 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 5: you know, lethal trap things and need to be lesal trapped, 457 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 5: but I also live trap the beavers for them and 458 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 5: kind of bring my knowledge of trapping into the relocation 459 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 5: scene where they were recruiting people that wanted to be 460 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 5: conservationists and recruiting people that like really wanted to be 461 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 5: a part it, and trapping was like something that I 462 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 5: think they needed more more help with, and then they 463 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 5: had to spend more time, you know, getting those guys 464 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 5: learning the ropes and trying to figure out where to 465 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 5: have the sets and what it meant and whereas I 466 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 5: kind of just knew, but then I had to kind 467 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 5: of learn, you know, how to keep the well being 468 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 5: of the animal in mind, and you know. Not that 469 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 5: not to say that you don't do that in regular 470 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 5: day trapping, but it's definitely more of a point to 471 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 5: do that when you're trying to live trap and relocate 472 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 5: stuff than when you're just trapping for fur or a 473 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 5: nuisance type thing or anything of that sort. 474 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 4: That makes sense. 475 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to paint the picture at all that 476 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 3: I'm anti you know, lethal trapping beavers. There's plenty of 477 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 3: instances where it comes up where that's perfectly okay to do. 478 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 3: I just find it also interesting that there's some there's 479 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: places like where you're at in Utah where live trap 480 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: at them and take it them to areas to you know, 481 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 3: re established wetlands or help with you know, help with 482 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 3: the wetlands. Is just really, really, really interesting. So are 483 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 3: you doing any lethal trapping of beavers anymore? Are you? 484 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 3: Are you if you're trapping a beaver, are you live 485 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 3: trapping it? 486 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: These days? 487 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 5: So I appreciate your perspective for sure, because I'm one 488 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 5: hundred percent on that same page. Also where there's there's 489 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 5: space in this world for both sides of that coin. 490 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 5: There's space in the world for a lethal trap, and 491 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 5: there's and there's a place in the world for the 492 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 5: live trapping relocation and things like that. Right, So nowadays 493 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 5: I'm definitely more along the lines of live trapping and 494 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 5: relocating than I am actually lethal trapping the beavers, even 495 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 5: though I do happen into a beaver here and there 496 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 5: on my line, you know, where I'm running snares close 497 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 5: to a river bottom or or just stuff like that 498 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 5: just happens a lot of times. 499 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 4: I'm trapping on a lot of private property over here too. 500 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 5: I'm not doing a whole lot of public land trapping 501 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 5: just because I've been so lucky to have access to 502 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 5: a lot of stuff and I've I've seen where trap 503 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 5: and can help them with the goals that they're trying 504 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 5: to achieve with deer and turkeys and and things like that. 505 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 5: So when it comes into the sense where I'm trapping 506 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 5: on those private properties, like those people are irrigating and 507 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 5: running the water to cows and running water to fields 508 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 5: and things like that where they don't necessarily want them there. 509 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 5: So that's where we can scratch each other's backs. Where 510 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 5: I have those INDs, you know, I'm seeing them during 511 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 5: trapping season, I'm seeing them where I can legally harvest 512 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 5: them in a lethal way, right, But I keep the 513 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 5: landowners in mind that they want a specific thing done. 514 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 5: But at the same time, I think like, Okay, maybe 515 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 5: I can save that come the summertime where we can 516 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 5: get this thing relocated and then full circle moment help 517 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 5: everybody out with you know, the relocation and the habitat work. 518 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 4: And so it's just it's just. 519 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 5: A deeper, meaning, deeper concept than just trapping that animal 520 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 5: because it's plugging up a covert, or trapping that animal 521 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 5: because it's falling trees or or anything like that where 522 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 5: somebody else could use it to actually keep water or 523 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 5: have water or you know, bring that water table up 524 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 5: a little bit in this in that sense, right, so 525 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 5: it has. It has flipped my mindset, you know, where 526 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 5: I'm like, man, I could instead of just solving one problem, 527 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 5: we can solve couple with just a little extra effort 528 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 5: or a little bit you know, a little bit more, 529 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 5: you know, thoughtfulness in that sense, right, you can. You 530 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 5: can just think a little harder, think a little better, 531 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 5: think a little smarter. 532 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: I love getting perspective from guys like Hoppy on these 533 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: kinds of issues. To me, they're as equally valuable as 534 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: the perspective of the biologist. One thing I feel like 535 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: we've learned and seen play out several times in this 536 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: show is that often the success of any program initiative 537 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: campaign set out in the name of benefiting wildlife often 538 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: hinges upon biologists in the public being willing to work together, 539 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: and Hoppy's involvement in this beaver relocation in Utah is 540 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: a perfect example of this. To round this episod off, 541 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: I want to ask him if he's been able to 542 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: see some of the positive impacts from his relocated Beaver's firsthand. 543 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely. 544 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 5: I actually, I actually was a part of a property 545 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 5: that I didn't even know was a thing. Before I 546 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 5: had even met BRC or net Nate or any of 547 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 5: those guys. I had been hunting turkeys on a property. 548 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 5: It was a property that was butted up to a 549 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 5: bunch of public land, and I had been hunting turks 550 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 5: on public land for forever. And then I'd met the 551 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 5: guy that had come to one of our like relocation 552 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 5: parties or those kinds of things, and then we got 553 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 5: talked about turkeys, and then he was like, he's like, yeah, 554 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 5: I live up there. And I'm like, oh, man, I 555 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 5: know exactly where that is. And he's like, hey, come 556 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 5: hunt turkeys on my place. It butted up right up 557 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 5: against you know, the public or whatever. So I knew 558 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 5: exactly where he was at. And I've been hunting turkeys 559 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 5: on his place ever since. But his place, this creek 560 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 5: runs right through his place, and it's just gorgeous habitat 561 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 5: Big long Green Grass. In the springtime, you know, turkeys 562 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 5: everywhere because there's just a lot of a lot of 563 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 5: big woods meeting like kind of open fields and things 564 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 5: like that. And we live in big high country too, 565 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 5: where like six. 566 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 4: Seven thousand feet he just had like great habitat. 567 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 5: And then and then he got to explain to me 568 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 5: that it never used to be that way until they 569 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 5: started helping him out with the beaversion kind of getting 570 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 5: them into that high country where where a lot of 571 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 5: our water happens in the springtime, right runoff and things, 572 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 5: and then we have super dry summers. And it was 573 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 5: kind of hard for me to understand that it ever 574 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 5: could have looked any different than what it did, because like, 575 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 5: the turkeys in there were just so awesome, and you know, 576 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 5: there's a lot of grouse all over there. 577 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 4: And so that kind of brought a full circle to me. 578 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 4: And that was actually. 579 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,479 Speaker 5: Pretty early on when I hadn't necessarily started live trapping 580 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 5: for them, but I, you know, i'd kind of had 581 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 5: the interest to, and so it kind of that kind 582 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 5: of pushed it forward for me. 583 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 4: Where I was like, this is actually possible. 584 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 5: And obviously it took him quite a while to do that, 585 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 5: because anything worth working for is probably gonna take take 586 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 5: some time, but like, but I was like, man, that's 587 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 5: so awesome. And then b r C has been doing 588 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 5: some relocation and some some stuff with us through me 589 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 5: through some of my private private property access as well. 590 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 5: And obviously we're kind of in the early stages there, 591 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 5: but we're already starting to see some beavers kind of 592 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 5: get established, kind of in the. 593 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 4: Lower parts of where we're at. 594 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 5: Obviously we want to kind of keep moving higher, but 595 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 5: it you know, we'll take them where we can get them, 596 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 5: but we're already starting to see some progress there too, 597 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 5: So that's super super cool. And I think in places 598 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 5: like down south areas where like there's excess water, you 599 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 5: guys have these rainstorms that come in and they don't 600 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 5: you know, they don't six to eight inches at a time, 601 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 5: whereas we have like six to eight inches of annual precipitation, 602 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 5: where we we know what we've got and we've got 603 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 5: to keep it. 604 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 4: And so the. 605 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 5: Beaver's definitely formed more of a functional part of the 606 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 5: world here than I think they have in different parts 607 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 5: of the world. 608 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 4: Of course, right, that's kind of why we're doing what 609 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 4: we're doing. 610 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 5: But they were always they've always been here, right, They've 611 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 5: always been here, and they should be here, and just 612 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 5: bring them back to places where they have been where 613 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 5: they should be is just cool to see, right. 614 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: I definitely think it's cool to see the North American 615 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: beaver a keystone species, an ecological engineer, a critter that 616 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: can transform a landscape like no other creature in the 617 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: animal kingdom, a nuisance sometimes sure, a critical piece of 618 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: the ecosystem that benefits wildlife and wild places, water quality, 619 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: and humans as well. You better believe it. Be sure 620 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: to check out the Beaver Ecology and Relocation Collaborative at 621 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: Utah State. They really are doing some cool work. Heck, 622 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: Nate told me that he even figured out how to 623 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: transport beaver's on horseback. That's something our friend Elmo was 624 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: never able to do. They've got some pretty cool videos 625 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: on their social media as well at the Natural Resources 626 00:32:54,120 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: at USU if you want to check them out. I 627 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: want to thank all of you for listening to Backwoods University, 628 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: as well as Clay's Bear Grease and Brent's This Country Life. 629 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: It means a whole whole lot to all of us. 630 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: And if you enjoyed this episode, share it with a 631 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: friend this week and stick around because we're just getting started. 632 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: There's a whole lot more on the way.