Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Beck del Cast.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wow Wow Happy New Year, Caitlin, Happy
Speaker 1: New Year to you, Jamie. We are in good sorts.
Speaker 1: As you can tell, We're in good we're in good starts,
Speaker 1: we're in high spirits, and we're covering Shrek three. I
Speaker 1: feel like we like to bring in the new year,
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of like on a good on
Speaker 1: a good vibe. We want to give people something that
Speaker 1: they're like familiar with, something that makes them smile, but
Speaker 1: also something that makes them think exactly. We want to
Speaker 1: set a precedent, and what better way to set a
Speaker 1: precedent for than with Shrek the Third. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a very cerebral podcast, and you can tell because of
Speaker 1: our s tier movie selection. I was being driven home
Speaker 1: by a friend last night because I don't have a
Speaker 1: driver's license, and I was thank you so much. I
Speaker 1: was mortified at how many times in the space of
Speaker 1: one conversation I said, well, that would require reading a
Speaker 1: book and I'm just not going to do that. Um,
Speaker 1: we famously don't read books, so we don't read books.
Speaker 1: But this is ultimately an intellectual endeavor and we're trying
Speaker 1: to change hearts and minds. Um, Happy New Year, h
Speaker 1: n y as it were? Oh my gosh, yeah, Um ditto,
Speaker 1: right back at you. Cute. Okay, we're using phrases this year.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm trying to say. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Betel Cast. My name is Jamie Loft Tech, my
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our show where
Speaker 1: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist end, using the
Speaker 1: Becktel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate
Speaker 1: a much larger conversation about representation and such. Of Justin
Speaker 1: Timberlake in animation, God, I feel like this was the
Speaker 1: justin Timberlake stunt casting era, and he really was giving
Speaker 1: it a hard in this movie. He is stinky, stinky, stinky.
Speaker 1: And that's an example of a conversation that would not
Speaker 1: pass the Becktel test. Can I tell you what it is?
Speaker 1: Please do. It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist
Speaker 1: Alice and Bechtels, sometimes called the becktel Wallace test. Originally,
Speaker 1: it was created as a one off, jokey kind of
Speaker 1: metric in her iconic comic Wow Okay, her iconic comics
Speaker 1: comic Maybe Tania I Frankenstein I Robot, And now the
Speaker 1: juices are kind of flowing right okay, okay, am I awake.
Speaker 1: It started as a bit uh in in her iconic
Speaker 1: comic Dikes to Watch out for highly recommended, but it's
Speaker 1: since become a kind of commonly accepted metric. Uh. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of different versions of it. The one we
Speaker 1: use requires that there are two characters with names of
Speaker 1: a marginalized gender that speak to each other about something
Speaker 1: other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue,
Speaker 1: ideally an impactful few lines of dialogue. This movie, I
Speaker 1: was frustrated with how they did it, but they did.
Speaker 1: They did do it. It was mostly women negging each
Speaker 1: other at a baby shower, but they did technically do it,
Speaker 1: and then each other in a dark corridor, which is
Speaker 1: actually where I would feel more at home. Is good.
Speaker 1: I'm no stranger to getting negged in a dark corridor.
Speaker 1: You do stand up long enough that will happen? Do
Speaker 1: you actually? Kind of like on a constant basis, and
Speaker 1: it maybe happened to me yesterday. Oh no, last night
Speaker 1: I failed to win a dollar gift card to Red Robin.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I had a stand up comedy show.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. You have what it took? You know
Speaker 1: who won? Who? The pianist? None of the stand ups one?
Speaker 1: What not fair? Yeah, the crowd really liked the pianist
Speaker 1: and well, um, not to completely blow up your spot, Jamie,
Speaker 1: but yes, someone was gifted a little something from a
Speaker 1: certain other someone. Are you shouting out your Christmas gift
Speaker 1: to me? Yeah? Because plugging your gif. I'm plugging the
Speaker 1: Olive Garden gift card that I bestowed upon you. It's
Speaker 1: true for xmus it's true and we and I'm going
Speaker 1: to use it on you with you. I cannot wait.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled. Thing, I'm crying.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to discuss Shrek the third, Shrek rate Okay,
Speaker 1: what's your history? Sorry, Shrek the third, Shrek the third,
Speaker 1: get it right? And that was fine? It was funked
Speaker 1: up with me. I'm sorry. I mean Shrek the third,
Speaker 1: What can I say? I mean they if you if
Speaker 1: this is the first episode. You're listening two of this show.
Speaker 1: That's very funny. I guess you know. I would say
Speaker 1: I am a Shrek head. I think I would have
Speaker 1: seen this in theaters. I think this would have been
Speaker 1: I didn't start seeing the Shrek movies in theaters until
Speaker 1: it was like as a joke. If I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: I would have seen the first two on like home
Speaker 1: video under dress with some cousins, I think, And then
Speaker 1: you know, this one I would have maybe seen in theaters.
Speaker 1: The fourth one I strongly remember seeing in theaters because
Speaker 1: I believe that I let my high school boyfriend finger
Speaker 1: me at the fourth one. Um, but that was in
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten and I was not quite an adult.
Speaker 1: I was still a child getting fingered at the movies.
Speaker 1: But uh, well it was by another child, so it's okay,
Speaker 1: Am I awake? UM, I would have seen this in theaters.
Speaker 1: I will say that this is my least favorite Shrek.
Speaker 1: I am a I feel intimately linked with this franchise
Speaker 1: for many years now. UM, I've given my body too.
Speaker 1: It's also cannon to the show we are. The Bechtel
Speaker 1: cast is synonymous with Shrek. It's there's no way around it.
Speaker 1: It's true. The first time I went viral and my
Speaker 1: whole life was Shrek related, like it's all connected. I
Speaker 1: went to Actually I was thinking about this because I
Speaker 1: went back and looked at some of my notes because
Speaker 1: at the end of I was really depressed. And you
Speaker 1: will understand why I did this when I tell you
Speaker 1: I was very depressed. I went to a ten hour
Speaker 1: long zoom in conference on Shrek and there were a
Speaker 1: lot of different speakers. There was a lot there was
Speaker 1: actually kind of like a lot of good ship, not
Speaker 1: to you know, send you into a panic, but I
Speaker 1: learned a lot. And Shrek three not a heavily discussed
Speaker 1: shruck because I feel like it wasn't well reviewed and
Speaker 1: it isn't very beloved in spite of almost making a
Speaker 1: billion dollars but eight d and thirteen million at the
Speaker 1: box office kind of absurd. But there was talk of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of feminist discussion about Fiona and
Speaker 1: Shrek three does come up quite a bit because of
Speaker 1: how she is, um she is mommy in this one.
Speaker 1: She's mommy fied, she's mommy pilled, and yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like it's honestly in my least favorite Trek I feel
Speaker 1: like all the characters are underused, and I feel like,
Speaker 1: at this point in I'll say the franchise, we're like
Speaker 1: running out of things for Shrek to be bad at.
Speaker 1: And yeah, this one feels a little, a little forced. Oh,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. All of the conflict in this movie
Speaker 1: is very contrived and it's so bizarre to me, like
Speaker 1: how far this movie, like the gymnastics it has to
Speaker 1: do to make it about fathers and sons when it
Speaker 1: just like did not have to be about fathers and sons.
Speaker 1: They make a whole new character so that the movie
Speaker 1: can be about fathers and sons. When at the beginning
Speaker 1: Fiona loses her father, there's the conflict. There's the thing,
Speaker 1: why are we creating and why are we making some
Speaker 1: like justin Timberlake character with Banks to have this plot
Speaker 1: rewriting the Arthur legend. It's like, I'm sorry, he becomes king,
Speaker 1: not because Shrek is like you should be king. He
Speaker 1: famously pulls a sword out of a stone. No sword,
Speaker 1: no stone, but pro of this movie, Donkey has a
Speaker 1: son named Bananas, which and I liked that ties the
Speaker 1: minions into I did like, yes, exactly, Egg you man,
Speaker 1: we really are close friends. So I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: there is a shipwreck. So I was like, okay, Titanic
Speaker 1: is here and I was like hey, donkey Son's name
Speaker 1: bananas and like okay, and so there, so the minions
Speaker 1: are here. Um, but ultimately, yeah, this is this is
Speaker 1: a challenging entry. But you know, I think that it's
Speaker 1: it would be silly to cover Shrek four with without
Speaker 1: kind of muscling through Shrek three. That's true. Went your
Speaker 1: history with this movie? I had only seen it once before,
Speaker 1: and I could not tell you when it was sometime
Speaker 1: between two thousand seven when this movie came out, and
Speaker 1: I would guess like I probably saw it around when
Speaker 1: it came out, maybe like or it could have been
Speaker 1: like two thousand fifteen. I don't know. Time is a
Speaker 1: very much a flat circle. Did you like it when
Speaker 1: you Did you like it when you saw it? I
Speaker 1: don't think so because I never returned to it after that.
Speaker 1: But you know what I will return to is Puss
Speaker 1: in Boots the Last Wish, which I saw. It is
Speaker 1: so good. It's like my third favorite movie. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know that people are really loving Yeah, we I guess, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm I feel constantly defensive for
Speaker 1: no reason. Um it has something to do with my childhood.
Speaker 1: But um, we were supposed to see Puss and Boots
Speaker 1: together on Christmas Day and I both recently had COVID.
Speaker 1: So if you hate this episode, it's because we literally
Speaker 1: have brain damage, we post COVID brain fog. And yes,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be my excuse for everything moving forward in life.
Speaker 1: And the scary part is you may not even be wrong.
Speaker 1: I know, and that's been on my mind constantly. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Shrek three, sorry s also, my aunt died, but it's
Speaker 1: my condolences. The beginning of Shrek three reminded me because
Speaker 1: I'm the protagonist of the world. The beginning of Shrek
Speaker 1: three reminded me of my birthday party at medieval times.
Speaker 1: I had the same exact thought. Yes, I was thinking
Speaker 1: about Red Knight vibes. Yeah, folks were friends. Uh, I
Speaker 1: was thinking about the Red Knight. But I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: Prince Charming can't hold a candle to the Red Knight.
Speaker 1: I do like that, Like I do. I think it's
Speaker 1: like a trope, but a trope that I generally like.
Speaker 1: An aggrieved actor becoming a villain kind of never gets old.
Speaker 1: For me. I enjoy it, but I just don't like
Speaker 1: Charming as a character Paddington too much. Hello Hello, kind
Speaker 1: of the peak of that trope. Yeah, nothing's done it
Speaker 1: better than Paddington too. I didn't I should have thought
Speaker 1: of Paddington too, but that is I guess that's technically
Speaker 1: your department at the office. Thank you, the Bechtel cast
Speaker 1: office and the the director of the Paddington to department
Speaker 1: I thought of. I thought of the villain origin stories.
Speaker 1: At the opening scene where Prince Charming is working in
Speaker 1: a medieval times z restaurant, it's clear that they're pulling
Speaker 1: from that, and you know, he's like, I'm too good
Speaker 1: for this ship. I don't you don't appreciate me. Blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Things that reminded me of Donald Trump at
Speaker 1: the White House Correspondence dinner, being made fun of and
Speaker 1: then deciding to ruin the world. Reminded me of that.
Speaker 1: Not that I mean not I and I don't like
Speaker 1: to make a Trump joke, because good lord, but it
Speaker 1: also kind of reminded me of the Joker. And it
Speaker 1: definitely reminded me of that episode of SpongeBob SquarePants. I
Speaker 1: watched it just the other day where SpongeBob or the
Speaker 1: Krusty Krab is putting on a talent show. Have you
Speaker 1: seen this one? I'm so sorry to say this, but
Speaker 1: I've never seen a single episode of SpongeBob SquarePants. I
Speaker 1: I know it took a second to hit me, but
Speaker 1: like not even one, really sorry, like not even bubbles
Speaker 1: or jelly fishing or I don't the one where they
Speaker 1: play the halftime show at the football game. No, not
Speaker 1: even the Krusty Crab training video. This this but I
Speaker 1: do remember. This is a lot I know that. Okay, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: no go. There's an episode where you, I frea something
Speaker 1: else reminded you of an episode of SpongeBob square Pants,
Speaker 1: and I just think remember you saying something like, it's
Speaker 1: like when maybe squid Word eats a crabby patty and
Speaker 1: then he eats a hundred crabby patties. Yes, that's a
Speaker 1: classic episode. I don't know what it means, but it is.
Speaker 1: I need to rewatch that. I think that there's maybe
Speaker 1: a bit of fat phobia in that episode. But the
Speaker 1: the line is squid Word can't stop eating crabby patties,
Speaker 1: compulsively eating the crappy patties and SpongeBob's on the other
Speaker 1: side of the door. He's like, you have to stop
Speaker 1: eating the crabby patties, and Squidbver says, what am I
Speaker 1: going to do? Blow up? And then SpongeBob says, no,
Speaker 1: it'll go straight to your thighs, and then they have
Speaker 1: indep gun straight to his eyes and then he says,
Speaker 1: and then you'll blow up, And then squid Red bloss
Speaker 1: up the best shover and that's comedy. That was not
Speaker 1: the episode I was thinking of. SpongeBob heads will know
Speaker 1: this one. It's a classic. I made someone watch it
Speaker 1: with me after I had sex with them, which was
Speaker 1: very powerful of me to do. Yeah, yeah, it was,
Speaker 1: but the sex was reminded me. It was not reminded
Speaker 1: me of that, but it was just on my mind.
Speaker 1: It's an episode where the Krusty Crab is putting on
Speaker 1: a talent show and squid Word he wants to be
Speaker 1: a respected artist. That's kind of a big part of
Speaker 1: his character, and so he's like, I'm gonna do a
Speaker 1: huge dance routine and everyone hates it. They think he's terrible,
Speaker 1: and then SpongeBob comes up and mops a little bit
Speaker 1: and people start cheering. But it reminded me of that
Speaker 1: because squid Word regularly feels so artistically rejected that he
Speaker 1: seems like he may in fact kill someone. And he
Speaker 1: runs out on stage on this one and he says,
Speaker 1: you don't even no talent, and then the audience starts
Speaker 1: yelling back at him, no talent, no tell do you
Speaker 1: get it? I get it. It's very names, but I understand.
Speaker 1: The person I had s swith also wasn't cracking up
Speaker 1: at that, and I thought that was interesting, and then
Speaker 1: I kicked him out of my house. Um, well should
Speaker 1: we be? I truly feel like I've entered a new
Speaker 1: area of my brain today. I am now just constantly
Speaker 1: in an altered state of reality. Well we don't use
Speaker 1: what is it like, we don't use our brains, But
Speaker 1: today that changes. Yeah, I am now able to access
Speaker 1: the other of my brain. That was a Scarlett Johanson
Speaker 1: movie once. Yeah, Lucy, she's I think when Yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: chruck three, let's do it. Here we go. Actually, let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we will come back
Speaker 1: for the recap and we are back. Okay. We open
Speaker 1: on Gingi Pinocchio and then also it's Pinocchio War's time,
Speaker 1: and I was triggered when I saw Pinocchio. I was like,
Speaker 1: he had another Pinocchio. Well, okay, so this is not
Speaker 1: a spoiler or anything, but in Puss and Boots the
Speaker 1: Last Wish, Pinocchio makes a little cameo. So there are
Speaker 1: three Pinocchio movies in well, there's there's four, because there's
Speaker 1: like the Crummy, there's a there's a fourth one. Maggie
Speaker 1: Maykors sent it to me, and it's it's not like
Speaker 1: the animation you find at the gas station, but it
Speaker 1: looks like the animation you find at the gas station.
Speaker 1: Not a theatrically released Pinocchio, but a really cheap so
Speaker 1: it's like the Legend of Titanic version of Pinocchio. Yeah,
Speaker 1: except it came out last year, which is kind of wild.
Speaker 1: I'm clear who it's for, no idea. Um, okay, So
Speaker 1: we've got Gingi, Pinocchio, the Big Bed Wolf, and the
Speaker 1: Three Little Pigs. They are watching Prince Charming do Dinner
Speaker 1: theater because he's a loser now and his life is
Speaker 1: in shambles, and he is bitter because he thinks that
Speaker 1: he's the rightful King of Far Far away. But guess
Speaker 1: who is king or at least filling in for king
Speaker 1: while the real king is sick. It's Shrek. Oh, and
Speaker 1: I bet he's going to be a little awkward, random,
Speaker 1: and uh, not quite at home being the king. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would be correct. Yeah, So he and Fiona are
Speaker 1: sort of like stepping in as king and queen for
Speaker 1: the time being. Donkey and Puss and Boots are obviously around,
Speaker 1: they are still the sidekicks. And like you said, Shrek
Speaker 1: is bad at being king. And he's like, Fiona, we
Speaker 1: are leaving and going back to the swamp, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and maybe when we're there we could start a family.
Speaker 1: And Shrek is not thrilled by this idea because of trumps. Yes.
Speaker 1: And then the king is on his deathbed and he's like, Shrek,
Speaker 1: you're next in line to be king, and Shrek is
Speaker 1: like an ogre king. That sounds like a bad idea,
Speaker 1: and the king is like, well there is one other option,
Speaker 1: cousin Arthur. Okay, bye bye, and then he dies. That
Speaker 1: scene is so frustrating to me because Fiona is standing
Speaker 1: right there. We spend so much of Shrek three acting
Speaker 1: like Shrek to literally never happy because Shrek two is
Speaker 1: a lot of like Fiona coming into her own as
Speaker 1: a person and like figuring out her role in this.
Speaker 1: Also it's like, this is a very pro monarchy. If
Speaker 1: we can't deal with it today, we can't deal with
Speaker 1: it today. I understand it's very pro monarchy and more
Speaker 1: pro monarchy as as it goes on. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm assuming that they're colonial. You know, they
Speaker 1: tried to colonize Shrek Swamp. Hello the plot of Shrek one,
Speaker 1: we know what, we love it. I don't think that
Speaker 1: we had the cultural know how at the time to
Speaker 1: say that in our first episode about Trek, but I
Speaker 1: do think that there are like actively truly serious brain
Speaker 1: returning to the brain. I no, um, they're a colonial force.
Speaker 1: It's a monarchy. But if we're going with girl Boss
Speaker 1: logic of like girl is king is good whatever, Fiona
Speaker 1: is right fucking there. We've spent so much of Shrek
Speaker 1: two of her coming into her own and then the
Speaker 1: third movie acts like nothing happened. Nothing happened, because I
Speaker 1: did think that, Like I was like, I wonder if
Speaker 1: her father will even suggest that she could be you know,
Speaker 1: in power as a joke. I wonder if she will
Speaker 1: say what about me as a joke, But it doesn't
Speaker 1: even it doesn't even come up. It's we have a
Speaker 1: new character, we hired justin Timberlake to do it, and
Speaker 1: why and and why? But yeah, that's that's what happens.
Speaker 1: And then he dies. Oh the king dies, Yes, as
Speaker 1: a frog. He's a frog. He's in his frog state.
Speaker 1: Sees Trek two for why that is we've got brain fog.
Speaker 1: The king has brain frog and then he doesn't because
Speaker 1: he dies and then he's brain his brain is dead. Okay. Meanwhile, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Charming goes into a tavern where a bunch of Fairy
Speaker 1: Hill villains are hanging out, and I do not appreciate
Speaker 1: the implication that only villains would hang out at a pub,
Speaker 1: or like that a pub or tavern would be full
Speaker 1: of only villains and no one else as a frequenter
Speaker 1: of pubs dark corridors exactly. Yet another way that this
Speaker 1: movie kind of like feels like it's contradicting prior entries
Speaker 1: to the franchise is that like Charming. Okay, well, let's
Speaker 1: let's say what Charming is doing. He's trying to like
Speaker 1: galvanize the villains. Yeah, he's like, hey hook, Hey evil
Speaker 1: Queen from snow White, Hey rumpel Stiltskin, join me in
Speaker 1: this cause of kind of reclaiming our own narratives, and
Speaker 1: it's our turn to get happily ever after, which I
Speaker 1: feel like it's not anywhere close to like one for one,
Speaker 1: what's happening in Shrek one, but the theme is similar
Speaker 1: of like these like classically villainized characters are trying to
Speaker 1: like prove that there's more to them than how they've
Speaker 1: been classically characterized. That is literally Shrek's arc all the
Speaker 1: time in every fucking movie, but this time it's bad,
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, what I would say that this movie,
Speaker 1: Shrek the Third is not particularly shreky in And I
Speaker 1: can't believe it took us over twenty minutes to say
Speaker 1: Shrek I in in this episode about a Shrek movie
Speaker 1: merch plug, We've got Shreky and March. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: my Shrek pillow, my shreky and pillow. I have my
Speaker 1: shreky and sweatshirt not on because it's in the wash
Speaker 1: because I can't stop wearing it. And that's heap off
Speaker 1: dot com slash the Bechtel cast. Yes, um, but this
Speaker 1: is the least Shreky and entry. It's like this, It's
Speaker 1: like Shrek three doesn't even know what happens in Shreks
Speaker 1: one and two, which is wild because they fucking lived it.
Speaker 1: It's absurd. Um Okay. So, so Charming is is rallying
Speaker 1: the fairy tale villains to, you know, be like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's it's our turn to be the heroes or whatever.
Speaker 1: So then when we cut back to Shrek, he is
Speaker 1: about to go on a voyage to find cousin Arthur.
Speaker 1: But before he leaves, Fiona is like, Shrek, I'm gregnant.
Speaker 1: But also I was, I was considering experimenting with shreknant
Speaker 1: or shregnant. I like, shregnant. Well, you coined the term
Speaker 1: shreg in our Shrek two episode. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember this, Jamie. No, I just have so many
Speaker 1: good ideas that I just kind of forget about someone though.
Speaker 1: I that was so good of me to do. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad I did that, So proud of you. So,
Speaker 1: so Fiona is like I'm shregnant and is like yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's very worried about being a bad dad because
Speaker 1: ogres are not known for being nurturing. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: such a forced plot point. I'm like, enough with the
Speaker 1: ogre lore. Oh my goodness, it's a lot. I also wait,
Speaker 1: quick question, So the timing of like when they're in
Speaker 1: Far Far Away, do you think that they fucked raw
Speaker 1: the day her father died? I'll ask it. Do you
Speaker 1: think they fucked raw the day her father died? Or
Speaker 1: do you think it was before? Good question. It seems
Speaker 1: as though Shrek leaves on this journey very shortly thereafter,
Speaker 1: but then that introduces like, well, we don't know about
Speaker 1: ogre gestation. Well, yes, true, so maybe they fucked raw
Speaker 1: and then two days it or she knows she's shregnant,
Speaker 1: she's shregnant. I would have actually, because this movie likes,
Speaker 1: you know, it's very shreky in to show something that
Speaker 1: happens in the real world, but like covereding goo and stinky.
Speaker 1: I would have liked to see a stinky pregnancy test. Oh.
Speaker 1: I would have liked to see it, say shregnant on
Speaker 1: the clear blue or the clear green, more like clear
Speaker 1: green test. Okay, okay, now we're talking. We're writing a
Speaker 1: movie right now there, So I want the clear green
Speaker 1: to show two gooey lines and it says. She says,
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm shregnant. Um and then to you this
Speaker 1: my piece smells horrible or whatever. Yeah, but we don't
Speaker 1: get that. We just get the scene where Fiona is like,
Speaker 1: I'm shregnant, and then Shrek is reacting with apprehension. He
Speaker 1: has a nightmare about it, where hundreds of little shred
Speaker 1: eggs are like running around. He's scrambling to take care
Speaker 1: of them and to keep them safe, his scrambled shreggs.
Speaker 1: They're uh, like I did like when that whole that
Speaker 1: whole nightmare sequence is annoying because you're just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is well, I don't know, we'll we'll talk about
Speaker 1: it in the discussion, because I do think that like
Speaker 1: exploring the theme of like anxiety around being a parent,
Speaker 1: very valid theme to explore. I think this movie just
Speaker 1: does it in a kind of like bizarre and like lazy,
Speaker 1: half asked way, like a trophy gendered way. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: Like it's we're not saying that, Like I mean, if
Speaker 1: I found out I was shregnant, I would be having
Speaker 1: dreams about Donkey with my face on. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: just be beside myself. But yeah, I don't know it
Speaker 1: just it's they're like worthwhile themes being explored in the laziest,
Speaker 1: most boring way possible in this movie. Yes, indeed, So, Shrek,
Speaker 1: Donkey and puts in Boots arrive at their destination, which
Speaker 1: turns out to be a high school, and cousin Arthur
Speaker 1: turns out to be a teenager voiced by Justin Timberlake,
Speaker 1: who everyone thinks is a huge loser. Terrible twist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also think Justin Timberlake is a huge loser. Same.
Speaker 1: Do you think that David Fincher saw Shrek the Third
Speaker 1: and was like, we gotta put him in the social network? Yes?
Speaker 1: Or now he's got the chops you can do. I
Speaker 1: think I think he saw Black Snake Moan and was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta put him in the social network. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that movie came out before the Social Network,
Speaker 1: but I haven't even seen Black Snake Moan. Is that
Speaker 1: that's Samuel L. Jackson and Christina Ricci right? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: I think, if I'm remembering correctly, Justin Timberlake is also
Speaker 1: in it, or maybe he is. I'm looking at his
Speaker 1: filmography right now. I regret to inform you. Or maybe
Speaker 1: David Fincher saw Southland Tales and was like, I gotta
Speaker 1: put justin Timberlake in the social network. I feel like
Speaker 1: David Fincher did see Southland Tales. That movie sorry for
Speaker 1: anyone who likes it, but I think is the And
Speaker 1: this is not an unpopular opinion, but that movie, in
Speaker 1: my humble opinion, is a turd. Whoa Anyway, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it, but I just I looked at the poster.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I think David Fincher seen it, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't really know what he's like.
Speaker 1: I'll have to mean text him. He does seem mean,
Speaker 1: but not like funny, mean like James Cameron just mean yeah,
Speaker 1: like do seventy takes until you're crying? Mean yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I like like a like a kuber kind of mean.
Speaker 1: Not James Cameron being like if anyone wants my attention
Speaker 1: on set, they have to sound the auga. That's like,
Speaker 1: did you see that? No, Oh my god, that's I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not making that up. That is something that he said.
Speaker 1: He's just like do he's the He's the worst, He's bad,
Speaker 1: and like we could get into that because there's I mean,
Speaker 1: we will when we cover another Titanic episode this year. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think we really should because there's been a discourse
Speaker 1: around Avatar tooth that I feel like it's very much
Speaker 1: worth discussing, even though we just talked about Avatar for
Speaker 1: a very long time with Ali Naddy. But it's just like, okay,
Speaker 1: compartmentalizing my feelings just to share this. The film crew
Speaker 1: on Avatar Way of Water has to play an a
Speaker 1: wuga sound effect of a submarine diving alarm to get
Speaker 1: James Cameron's attention on set. Cameron quote, I don't even
Speaker 1: respond unless they do the auga unquote embarrassing. That's funny,
Speaker 1: mean embarrassing. Yeah, moving on anyway. So Justin is in
Speaker 1: the movie is the point, and we don't love Shrek
Speaker 1: is like, guess what, Arthur your first in line for
Speaker 1: the throne, And so Arthur leaves with Shrek, excited by
Speaker 1: the idea of being king. But when Arthur realizes how
Speaker 1: much responsibility it requires, he freaks out and tries to
Speaker 1: turn the ship around because he and Shrek start fighting.
Speaker 1: The ship crashes on an island, where Merlin famously a
Speaker 1: wizard voiced by which I'm always delighted to see Eric
Speaker 1: Aile but I'm like, oh my god, what is happening there?
Speaker 1: Just the doing back bench to tell me more things
Speaker 1: about masculine responsibility, like shut okay. So Merlin is like Shrek,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to help you until you stop being
Speaker 1: so angry, and then he has all of the characters
Speaker 1: do some soul searching, and Shrek is still clearly anxious
Speaker 1: about being a father. We learned that Arthur was abandoned
Speaker 1: by his father, and Shrek and Arthur have a heart
Speaker 1: to heart and they are bonding almost as if they
Speaker 1: are father and son. And but Shrek does say something
Speaker 1: interesting that I think. I was trying to figure out
Speaker 1: if there's any way that Shrek the Musical, which is
Speaker 1: my favorite Shrek Shrekian shreky in property, because I believe
Speaker 1: that Shrek the Musical debuts in oh eight, the year
Speaker 1: after this. But I was curious if like this was
Speaker 1: being developed alongside Shrek three, or if like Shrek three
Speaker 1: wasn't able to be like to get into Shrek the
Speaker 1: Musical because they were kind of close together and it
Speaker 1: takes so long to develop a musical. But Shrek does
Speaker 1: say that his father tried to eat him, yes, when
Speaker 1: he was a little Shrek a Shrek he just hatch
Speaker 1: out of his Shrek and and his father says, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna eat you. That's not good, but I leave. In
Speaker 1: the musical, the way that Shrek's childhood Shrek's childhood trauma
Speaker 1: is actually like a huge plot point and Shrek the Musical,
Speaker 1: and it's why it's the best Shrek. They are examining
Speaker 1: Shrek's sensitive side with farts, of course. But what happens
Speaker 1: in Shrek the Musical is that Shrek's parents kick Shrek
Speaker 1: out of their house when he's seven and say, go
Speaker 1: make something of yourself, and you look like shit, and
Speaker 1: like that's kind of They're like, it's going to be
Speaker 1: hard to be an ogre in the world, which is
Speaker 1: why we're kicking you out of our house. Question mark.
Speaker 1: But so he was like badly parented in a different
Speaker 1: way in the musical. Are Shrek's parents also ogres or
Speaker 1: was there like an adoption thing? Okay, So that's why
Speaker 1: it's confusing that they kick him out there like the
Speaker 1: world is hostile and so are we, Like I don't understand,
Speaker 1: but in the musical it's very effective and I feel like, again,
Speaker 1: just another way that Shrek is lazy. He's like, um
Speaker 1: my dad tried to eat me. That won't be coming
Speaker 1: up again. Yeah. The point is, uh, Shrek is now
Speaker 1: justin Timberlake's daddy um back in far far away. And
Speaker 1: to be clear, like, and I don't want to speak
Speaker 1: for you, Jamie, but I don't have a problem with
Speaker 1: the idea of a story being about a father son relationship.
Speaker 1: There's nothing inherently wrong with that. And I think there
Speaker 1: should be more stories that at least feature a positive
Speaker 1: and like meaningful story about a father son relationship, because
Speaker 1: so many of the ones that we get on screen
Speaker 1: are actually very toxic relationships, but the movie doesn't present
Speaker 1: them that way. It's just like, yeah, this is how
Speaker 1: fatherhood is or whatever. I am inclined to agree with that.
Speaker 1: I just feel like it's like not in first position
Speaker 1: for me. I feel like they've had no people that
Speaker 1: a lot of shots to get it right, and if
Speaker 1: they haven't at this point point, I'm like, well, that's
Speaker 1: none of my business, right, But but I also I
Speaker 1: do agree. I think that there are there are versions
Speaker 1: of this story that have been historically ignored, but unfortunately
Speaker 1: this movie is not doing anything. And when we're coming
Speaker 1: down on like father son movies, which are almost all
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, I'm just coming down at the sheer
Speaker 1: volume of them, and they're like, it's I feel like
Speaker 1: it's just like a classically I'm more saying like, and
Speaker 1: there's not a lot else. It's very rare to see
Speaker 1: any other parent child relationship of any sort other than
Speaker 1: fathers and sons because of who's been historically who's been
Speaker 1: historically put first. So I actually am very sick of
Speaker 1: fathers and Sons movies. But if the movie is really good,
Speaker 1: then fine, good for that. But it just this movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yes, So back in Far far Away, Charming
Speaker 1: shows up with his army of villains. They storm the castle.
Speaker 1: He claims the throne as his own, and he plans
Speaker 1: to basically kill Shrek and Arthur upon their return. Fiona,
Speaker 1: her mom, and her friends such as snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella,
Speaker 1: and Rapunzel, try to escape, but Rapunzel betrays Fiona because
Speaker 1: she turns out to be Charming's his girlfriend and something
Speaker 1: that they also do basically nothing with. It's yeah, and
Speaker 1: so Charming locks Fiona and the others in the dungeon. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Merlin uses his magic to transport Shrek, Arthur, Donkey, and
Speaker 1: Puss in boots back too far far away. But also
Speaker 1: during this teleportation Donkey and Puss his bodies are accidentally switched.
Speaker 1: And that's comedy and does that lead anywhere? Of course
Speaker 1: not does about boring jokes? Ye? Yes, So then Shrek
Speaker 1: goes to stop Charming and to save Fiona, but Charming
Speaker 1: captures Shrek and his friends, and this is when Arthur
Speaker 1: finds out that he isn't really next in line to
Speaker 1: be king, that Shrek is, and that Shrek just didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it. And Shrek calls Arthur a fool
Speaker 1: and a loser and tells him to leave, and he's
Speaker 1: really mean. So Arthur does just that, he leaves, and
Speaker 1: it's just and at this point you're really like struggling
Speaker 1: to care. Yeah, I'm like, what's happening? No, justin Timberlake
Speaker 1: has exited the movie, darn uh. So then Charming puts
Speaker 1: on this show. It's similar to the dinner theater show
Speaker 1: we saw him doing at the beginning of the movie
Speaker 1: where he vanquishes an ogre, because Charming's plan is to
Speaker 1: kill Shrek onstage during the show, which is both lazy
Speaker 1: and iconic. I don't hate it, and it plays out,
Speaker 1: I couldn't decide if I but then I, but then
Speaker 1: I did hate it. As the scene was happening, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is so ridiculous. Okay, all right, he's gonna kill
Speaker 1: him on stage. Yes. Meanwhile, Fiona and the others break
Speaker 1: out of the dungeon and storm the castle with the
Speaker 1: help of Donkey Post Pinocchio, GINGI the whole gang. Along
Speaker 1: the way, they bump into Arthur and Post some donkey
Speaker 1: tell Arthur that Shrek said all of those mean things
Speaker 1: to protect him so that Charming wouldn't kill Arthur. Cut
Speaker 1: to the play. Charming is about to kill Shrek, but
Speaker 1: Fiona and the other ladies bust into save the day.
Speaker 1: But oh no, I mean there is the classic another
Speaker 1: I think something very shreky in is um a moment
Speaker 1: of woman empowerment that goes nowhere correct a classic shreky
Speaker 1: and thing to do. It's like and now it's it's
Speaker 1: the woman is kicking. And now back to your regularly
Speaker 1: scheduled Shrek doing stand up, Like, what the funk was
Speaker 1: that he's doing a tight five? He's he's he's doing
Speaker 1: a roast of Charming. He's in the roast battle, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he won. He won, of course gets safe. Um,
Speaker 1: so Fiona and the other princesses show up to save
Speaker 1: the day, but it doesn't go anywhere, and Charming in
Speaker 1: the villains get the upper hand again, but then Arthur
Speaker 1: shows back up and gives a speech about how they
Speaker 1: don't have to be villains. They can be whoever they
Speaker 1: want to be, because even though everyone might think they're
Speaker 1: a monster, it's about who you think you are. And
Speaker 1: you're like, oh yeah, sort of like exactly what happens
Speaker 1: in Shrek one, but makes less sense, and it's from
Speaker 1: Justin timber Like, I'm so not interested in Justin Timberlake's
Speaker 1: journey towards becoming a diplomat like. But his speech inspires
Speaker 1: the villains to throw down their weapons, but Charming isn't
Speaker 1: having it, and he tries to kill Shrek. But then
Speaker 1: Charming gets crushed by a tower and presumably killed, And
Speaker 1: then Arthur takes the crown and accept his role as king.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Then Merlin switches Donkey and puts
Speaker 1: back in their rightful bodies, and then we cut back
Speaker 1: to the swamp where Fiona has three little shreds and
Speaker 1: they've hatched, They've hatched out of their out of their
Speaker 1: Shrek eggs, and Shrek is good daddy and Fiona is
Speaker 1: a good mummy and and they have a nice ogre
Speaker 1: family the end. Yea, I love that. Yeah, so let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and come back to discuss and
Speaker 1: we're back. Yeah, yeah, what shall we talk about first? Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like we actually have um touched on quite
Speaker 1: a bit of stuff already, I think, I mean, but
Speaker 1: let's I guess close the loop on the every movie
Speaker 1: is about fathers and sons thing I do stand by
Speaker 1: way I said, And I feel like this movie is
Speaker 1: kind of a classic example of why that can be
Speaker 1: so frustrating, because it's like, I just feel like there's
Speaker 1: so many more interesting parent child dynamics in this movie
Speaker 1: that to some extent it is supposed to be about
Speaker 1: parental anxiety, and like, I just think it's really, um,
Speaker 1: it was a huge missed opportunity. And and you know,
Speaker 1: I guess missing an opportunity is very shreky in in
Speaker 1: a way, UM true to say something impactful, UM, but
Speaker 1: introducing a new character instead of like focusing on the
Speaker 1: characters we have just felt like a huge mistake because
Speaker 1: it's like, not that I want Direct the Third to
Speaker 1: be about grieving a parent, but it's I just like
Speaker 1: I truly was baffled, and I feel like it really
Speaker 1: spoke to how poorly Fiona has been characterized historically and
Speaker 1: really reminded me about how it took five white guys
Speaker 1: to write this story that we are given like a
Speaker 1: really strong thread that should be playing into the whole movie.
Speaker 1: At the very beginning, Fiona's father dies. Is it funny
Speaker 1: when he dies? Yes, I kind of like the frog bit,
Speaker 1: Oh he's not dead yet. It went on for so long.
Speaker 1: I was so over it after the first time, I
Speaker 1: was over it because I was feeling for Fiona. But
Speaker 1: I do think that the few people I've told I
Speaker 1: was watching Shrek the Third, that scene is the only
Speaker 1: thing anyone remembers there, Like, is that the one where
Speaker 1: the frog dies and it takes a long time like shocking?
Speaker 1: But yes, yes, But yeah, I just like that's like
Speaker 1: a really strong thread and it's not called back to
Speaker 1: at all like Fiona. I feel like it's it's so
Speaker 1: it ties into like a huge issue with Fiona in
Speaker 1: this or just like a very heavily gendered trope in
Speaker 1: this where it's like it's never considered that Fiona might
Speaker 1: have anxieties about becoming a parent, Like that's such so
Speaker 1: part and parcel too, like lazy motherhood narratives that are
Speaker 1: generally written by not mothers, where it's like, oh, well, yes,
Speaker 1: it is her feminine duty not only to want to
Speaker 1: get pregnant but not have a single worry in the
Speaker 1: world about the little shregs um like nothing nothing, nothing, nothing,
Speaker 1: And the fact that she has just lost her parents
Speaker 1: would be another sort of way into exploring that anxiety
Speaker 1: of like what was her elthood? Like does she have
Speaker 1: any anxieties about like her children being a part of
Speaker 1: this like royal fucking mess? Does she have anxieties about
Speaker 1: shreks ability to parent? Is there? Like there's just like
Speaker 1: so like a ten year old could come up with
Speaker 1: a bunch of different ways for Fiona to be more
Speaker 1: active within this story, and it's just like completely ignored
Speaker 1: so aggressively that they feel they need to introduce a
Speaker 1: character that no one cares about in order to like
Speaker 1: get Shrek to the same place, but like in a
Speaker 1: worst less effective way, like she's right there. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's every shruck discussion. Like Fiona is right there,
Speaker 1: she has the narrative thrust. Why can't she fucking like
Speaker 1: have us an actual story and not just like and
Speaker 1: to the point where, like when she comes out and
Speaker 1: I forgot that there was like the princess fight scene,
Speaker 1: and I guess, like theoretically, like that's better than nothing,
Speaker 1: but I was actually really annoyed by it because it
Speaker 1: was just like, Oh, cool, You're going to do the
Speaker 1: one thing Fiona is ever allowed to do, which is
Speaker 1: one fight scene per movie. But it's like, even that's
Speaker 1: fucking lazy at this point because it's not really leading
Speaker 1: anywhere and she still doesn't get to do anything, Like
Speaker 1: I just for sure. Yeah, just touching a little bit
Speaker 1: more on the like parenthood through line of the movie,
Speaker 1: reiterating how easy of a choice it is to put
Speaker 1: the woman in the role of being so hyper enthusiastic
Speaker 1: about becoming apparent to the point where she has seemingly
Speaker 1: no anxieties, no hesitations, nothing like that, because I think
Speaker 1: it's like leaning into this trope of like women are
Speaker 1: quote unquote baby crazy, whereas men are so often presented
Speaker 1: in media as being extremely reluctant about becoming a father
Speaker 1: because they think it's gonna like, I don't know, ruin
Speaker 1: his life or something, as if to say in hetero couples,
Speaker 1: women don't experience like doubt and apprehension about becoming a parent,
Speaker 1: and that men don't experience enthusiasm when we know that
Speaker 1: the full range of emotion is available to people of
Speaker 1: all genders as it relates to parenthood and everything in
Speaker 1: the world. Right like it it's not like we're even saying,
Speaker 1: you know, like this is not like a woman never
Speaker 1: has never felt this way about parenting, and a man
Speaker 1: has never felt this way about parenting. Obviously, Like tropes
Speaker 1: don't come from nowhere. We're not saying that no one's
Speaker 1: ever reacted this way to a Gregnancy or even a shregnancy,
Speaker 1: but it is so so done to fun and death
Speaker 1: and I and I think it's like this is something
Speaker 1: that always kind of bugs me about the Trek movies.
Speaker 1: It's like they're so aggressively marketed as like an alternative
Speaker 1: to like the tropes that you're used to, but it's
Speaker 1: like very much not like lean yeah, in terms of
Speaker 1: its values. I feel like the first one is like
Speaker 1: the closest to actually subverting something and like, you know,
Speaker 1: like with beauty is more than how you appear, and
Speaker 1: like all that stuff like that felt genuinely subversive for
Speaker 1: a kid's movie, But by the time they get to
Speaker 1: the third one, it's like it's just like no one's
Speaker 1: even trying. It bums me out. And it's because I
Speaker 1: do think that Fiona is an awesome character. She's awesome,
Speaker 1: and like I felt like she was disrespected in the
Speaker 1: second one because they literally try to like roofy her,
Speaker 1: and then in the third one it's even worse. They
Speaker 1: Like I was glad that at least we I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's like large chunks of this movie where she's completely
Speaker 1: absent because shreks going off on a quest with Donkey
Speaker 1: and Puss in boots, and we only cut back to
Speaker 1: her to see her baby shower, like, which again is
Speaker 1: just so lazy and gendered. It's so and it also
Speaker 1: is my impression of that scene. I've been to. I've
Speaker 1: been a many many baby showers. I love being an auntie.
Speaker 1: It very much read to me as like five men
Speaker 1: trying to imagine what a baby shower would be like,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, it's just women insulting each other
Speaker 1: and giving each other gifts, and like it's so it's
Speaker 1: so lazy that I didn't play any games. No one
Speaker 1: had a like all the princesses, the way they're characterized,
Speaker 1: they're basically indistinguishable from each other because they're all character
Speaker 1: I think the subversion that they're making is like they're
Speaker 1: actually vapid, evil bitches. Isn't that funny? And you're like, no,
Speaker 1: why are Fiona's friends mean? Like I hate it? And
Speaker 1: also shouldn't we cut back to a scene where like
Speaker 1: Fiona is making choices about the kingdom like she is
Speaker 1: right now the de facto leader of the kingdom, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: shouldn't we see here be doing stuff? You know? Not
Speaker 1: that again, not that we're pro monarchy here, but like
Speaker 1: even so, but the movie is so like so like,
Speaker 1: can she do something? Cold? You do something? I felt
Speaker 1: the same way about. Queen is a Queen Gertrude? Get
Speaker 1: that right, Fiona's mom? Yes, I don't know. Queen Lilian.
Speaker 1: Queen Lilian, Oh my god, I'm so why did I
Speaker 1: say Queen Gertrude? I think it's literally from Hamlet. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm so smart um, so, okay, Queen Lilian, I feel
Speaker 1: like she again was just like not she was a
Speaker 1: bigger part of Shrek to than she is Shrek the Third.
Speaker 1: But again, you have like a really really strong like
Speaker 1: I would totally understand if like a Shrek movie doesn't
Speaker 1: really want to explore grief. Fine, it's for eight year
Speaker 1: old I get it. But even if you take that
Speaker 1: out of the equation, why isn't Queen Like? It just
Speaker 1: feels like theoretically, because I don't there should be like
Speaker 1: some little snappy little title for whatever this this trope is.
Speaker 1: And I feel like it is really like thriving around
Speaker 1: this time where it's like the character has all of
Speaker 1: the trappings of a quote unquote strong female character, but
Speaker 1: it means nothing. It's like strictly symbolic because it never
Speaker 1: has any bearing on the plot, and they'll always sort
Speaker 1: of go towards the traditional feminine expectations, but sometimes they
Speaker 1: get to kick right, but they're not really subverting anything.
Speaker 1: And I feel like Queen Lillian is the same thing
Speaker 1: where it's like she gets her like fighting girl Boss
Speaker 1: moment where she like slams her head against the wall
Speaker 1: and the walm brakes great love that, but like, why
Speaker 1: can't I don't know. It's like Lillian and Fiona are
Speaker 1: We're told repeatedly, these are empowered women, these are strong
Speaker 1: female characters, but it's never brought up between the two
Speaker 1: of them. Why couldn't one of us? Like why not
Speaker 1: Queen Lilian? Why is she like disqualified? What are the
Speaker 1: rules of this monarchy? Like? It never comes up that
Speaker 1: she would have any interest in like but we're told
Speaker 1: she's like this girl boss, but she has no interest
Speaker 1: in the boss portion. It just doesn't make sense to
Speaker 1: me here, it doesn't make sense. Here's a pitch for
Speaker 1: a snappy name. Yeah for this trope, because these characters
Speaker 1: are so or because it's like presentation of like quote
Speaker 1: unquote girl power is very hollow and never like leads
Speaker 1: to anything. What if it's hollow? Holly, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you so much? Oh my gosh, cheers, applause. Wow, people
Speaker 1: are getting out. I'm screaming, crying. Anyway, Jo had an orgasm. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll keep work shopping it. But I think that's kind
Speaker 1: of perfect. I feel like a hollow. That's a strong hollow, hollow.
Speaker 1: We'll figure it out. Listeners sound off, What the funk?
Speaker 1: Or maybe someone has already like attributed a label to
Speaker 1: this and we just haven't heard about it, but like
Speaker 1: because we have been, you know, it's like it like
Speaker 1: ties into like you're just saying like girl power feminism,
Speaker 1: where it's insisting that it's really subversive feminist thing, but
Speaker 1: it's falling into traditional values pretty cleanly at the end
Speaker 1: of the day. But they're allowed to say one swear
Speaker 1: or something. Um, yeah, it's very symbolic hollow pepe poop
Speaker 1: who I don't like it, and that's my pitch. Um
Speaker 1: I love that too, but yeah, I just was really
Speaker 1: frustrated by like you know, and and and to the
Speaker 1: point where it's like Queen Lilian and Fionna are like
Speaker 1: standing in the background of a lot of these scenes
Speaker 1: and they never say anything. It's really frustrating. I want
Speaker 1: to go through beat by beat as far as what
Speaker 1: happens with Fiona as they're like escaping the castle and
Speaker 1: like doing this like again quote unquote girl power part
Speaker 1: of the story. So Charming breaks into the castle, Fiona
Speaker 1: takes initiatives. She leads the other women to safety, which
Speaker 1: include snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and Rapunzel, who are
Speaker 1: four of the most damseled characters in fairy tale lore,
Speaker 1: which will come back in a moment, and then also
Speaker 1: an ugly step sister and an ugly sub sec and
Speaker 1: Fiona's mom. Yes, yeah, and I do feel like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if if Shrek is the first franchise
Speaker 1: to do this, but like that has been. It feels
Speaker 1: this actually feels quite shreky in. I don't like how
Speaker 1: they're like, let's create an alternative to the aggressively damseled
Speaker 1: characters by making them horrible. Like that just felt like
Speaker 1: there's so many ways to do that. Why would you
Speaker 1: choose that direction? Whatever, that's the creative choice they made,
Speaker 1: and I don't have to like it, um, but um,
Speaker 1: I feel like that is like very shreky in, because
Speaker 1: that's why the movies exist, is to like make fun
Speaker 1: of disney Ship, because it started with Jeffrey Katzenberg wanting
Speaker 1: to spite Disney. So it's like that is the formula
Speaker 1: of like find Disney tropes and then put them on
Speaker 1: their head, even if you're making it bad in a
Speaker 1: different way. So that feels very in line with the
Speaker 1: shreky In stuff. And then that's like kind of weirdly
Speaker 1: like something that Disney also starts to do, because that
Speaker 1: that whole sequence where my to me of like the
Speaker 1: wreck it Ralph thing where it's like the Disney princesses
Speaker 1: appear as themselves, but now they're like different, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's Shrek's impact. Look, Shrek the Third not very good,
Speaker 1: but Shrek's impact really kind of culturally cannot be overstated
Speaker 1: because it's like Shrek did so well at making fun
Speaker 1: of Disney that Disney had no choice but to make
Speaker 1: fun of Disney, and that really makes you think, Wow,
Speaker 1: the shreky and impact on the world is palpable. It's
Speaker 1: like I can smell it. Um. Okay, so we've got
Speaker 1: this this group of women. Fiona is leading them to safety.
Speaker 1: We see that scene in the dark Corridor where the
Speaker 1: princesses are bickering. They seem to be jealous of each
Speaker 1: other's beauty. Fiona's mom even has to say, like, let
Speaker 1: go of your petty complaints and let's work together. Fiona
Speaker 1: leaves them out of the castle and that seems like
Speaker 1: they're safe until Rapunzel betrays them and the rest of
Speaker 1: them are captured and thrown in the dungeon. And then
Speaker 1: Fiona is like, we need to find a way out,
Speaker 1: but she only says that after she learns that, like
Speaker 1: Shrek is in danger, So like why wouldn't she try
Speaker 1: to like be more adamant about escaping just because they're
Speaker 1: locked in a dungeon. But it's not until she was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, my husband and my husband, I have
Speaker 1: to get out now. I don't know, like I truly
Speaker 1: think that, Like Fiona's plotline is like comically underthought, like
Speaker 1: truly her mote like it just this is like a
Speaker 1: bizarre gripe, but just like another way where I'm just
Speaker 1: like wow, like the guy's writing this movie. It's just
Speaker 1: like Fiona is having a baby shower, it seems like.
Speaker 1: And then which made me ask myself, how long has
Speaker 1: Shrek been gone? If we're to believe that, like Fiona
Speaker 1: has basically the gestation period of a human, which I
Speaker 1: think she went because she was human for a very
Speaker 1: long time. But also I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 1: how that works, right, But it's like a shark ban
Speaker 1: gone for six months, Like baby showers generally don't happen
Speaker 1: until pretty far into the pregnancy to the shregnancy yeah,
Speaker 1: the shregnancy. But again, it's just like these are just
Speaker 1: not things that the writers know or care about, or like,
Speaker 1: her motivation from scene to scene makes no sense. It's
Speaker 1: just like it feels like they are like, Okay, there's
Speaker 1: a scene where she's kicking, and we can call it
Speaker 1: a day. I found that her bringing her friends and
Speaker 1: mother to safety to be the most effective motivated Fiona
Speaker 1: moment because it didn't feel forced. All the other stuff forced.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, as we've said, goes nowhere because what happens.
Speaker 1: So she's like, we need to escape. And then the
Speaker 1: other princess is the very traditionally damse old ones assume
Speaker 1: the position of waiting to be rescued by a man,
Speaker 1: and Fiona is like, what are you doing? And they're like,
Speaker 1: we're waiting around to be rescued, and snow White says
Speaker 1: something like, you know, we're just a bunch of hot
Speaker 1: princesses and a pregnant ogre and an old lady, like
Speaker 1: what are we supposed to do? And that's when Fiona's
Speaker 1: mom is like bashes her head against two stone walls
Speaker 1: to break them down, and you know, Fiona is like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take care of business, we're gonna actively do something,
Speaker 1: and that's when we have this like quote unquote girl
Speaker 1: power montage where they're like tearing their dresses to make
Speaker 1: them easier to move around. In Cinderella is like sharpening
Speaker 1: her glass slipper, there's like a bra burning moment, which
Speaker 1: is like when you think about what that's symbolic of, right,
Speaker 1: I again, you're like, I mean, I guess it's very
Speaker 1: shrekky and to present an empty reference that makes no
Speaker 1: sense within the story. So I sure, but yeah, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: brad branding is like a whole other thing because like
Speaker 1: that that's like a cultural myths like I didn't even
Speaker 1: but didn't happen, but not that five white guys in
Speaker 1: a room would know that. I'm sure they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that definitely happened, and that meant that they're like, um,
Speaker 1: girl power, feminism. What does it look like they burn
Speaker 1: a bra? Okay, let's put that in the movie. Done, done, done,
Speaker 1: write it down like it's it's so yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like really really um lazy easy lazy lazy doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Then the women storm the castle and fight, using their
Speaker 1: specific skills to the best of their ability. I guess
Speaker 1: in terms of like didn't hate it, Yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: like snow snow White uses the animals. Yeah, she summons
Speaker 1: a bunch of woodland critters and has them attacked the guards.
Speaker 1: Cinderella uses her glass slipper as a weapon. Sleeping Beauty
Speaker 1: passes out and trips some people with her body, and
Speaker 1: then they all invade the castle during Charming's show, and
Speaker 1: Fiona's like, Shrek, I'm here to save you. But then
Speaker 1: Fiona is immediately tied up and damseled. It's up to right,
Speaker 1: and so it's up to Shrek to like fight the villain,
Speaker 1: and then it ends up being Dragon, who was also
Speaker 1: basically written out of the movie, who swoops in and
Speaker 1: lands the killing blow by knocking a tower over onto Charming. Right,
Speaker 1: So not that she gets any like recognition for doing that,
Speaker 1: because she's really like mommyfied by this story as well,
Speaker 1: where like she's basically only mommy, Like she's she's now
Speaker 1: mommy to bananas, Yes, bananas the donkey Dragon, which and
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that, but it's like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: I feel like it is a very tropy thing. I know,
Speaker 1: it's a very tropy thing that once a character is
Speaker 1: a mother. They are like and that's the whole character. Now,
Speaker 1: mother could not possibly have another facet to their life,
Speaker 1: and that is very much what happens to Dragon, and
Speaker 1: then it's eventually what happens to Fiona. And don't we
Speaker 1: love that? We do not? Um. Yeah, Ultimately it's the
Speaker 1: veil or like the facade of women being empowered and
Speaker 1: like doing something, having some agency, but it's all extremely
Speaker 1: hollow because when the moment comes where they can actually
Speaker 1: like affect the story in some significant way, such as
Speaker 1: Fiona saving Shrek, that doesn't happen. She's tied up, she's
Speaker 1: damned old. So just it's like super empty. It's just
Speaker 1: a facade of empowerment for women and nothing actually meaningful
Speaker 1: or real. Yeah, I feel the same way. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's a bummer. I do think that, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: this movie came out in two thousand seven, and I
Speaker 1: think if it was made today that would be less
Speaker 1: of an issue. I do feel like children and maybe
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but like I think the
Speaker 1: kids movies specifically have come a very very long way
Speaker 1: and they last like fifteen to twenty years, and I
Speaker 1: think like more so than a lot of genres for adults. Like,
Speaker 1: I think it's come further than rom coms. It's come
Speaker 1: further than action movies. I think, honestly, if I'm poking
Speaker 1: a little fun at current movie tropes, if this movie
Speaker 1: came out today, it would be about Shrek's childhood trauma,
Speaker 1: and it would be about Fiona's childhood trauma, and it
Speaker 1: would be beautiful and it would make us cry. And
Speaker 1: that's why I'm excited for Shrek five. Um. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: like I think that like this era is, it's so
Speaker 1: bizarre and it makes you feel like you me much
Speaker 1: like Queen Lilian and banging my head against a wall.
Speaker 1: But the wall is not breaking. It remains much the same.
Speaker 1: Because you're telling me that this is an empowered female character.
Speaker 1: But then, but that's not what's happening. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think that I don't know, there's there's better Shreks ahead.
Speaker 1: I can feel it. I can just feel hello, oh
Speaker 1: my god, and that I shouldn't have said that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an emergency happen anyway. Don't get this out of
Speaker 1: the It's an emergency. Everyone's getting scary set of Shrek
Speaker 1: five because we're going to add a female character. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, because Shrek five there's a set. Because Shrek
Speaker 1: five is live action, they're doing it's Brian Darcy James
Speaker 1: and Sutton Foster don't the musical um and it looks normal.
Speaker 1: It doesn't look scary. Okay, So did you have anything
Speaker 1: else to say about the hollow feminism of this movie? No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Okay, We've we've talked about this
Speaker 1: before in Shrek episodes. There are so many of the
Speaker 1: era UM I wasn't picking up on quite as many
Speaker 1: um gay jokes in this one. I think that there
Speaker 1: was a queer coded stylist, which we've seen a million times.
Speaker 1: It was very lazy troupe. But the Shrek franchise, especially
Speaker 1: in earlier installments, excuse transphobic like all the time. And
Speaker 1: it's tricky because it's like, I don't know how the
Speaker 1: ugly step sisters are. I mean, they're coded as like
Speaker 1: looking more masculine, and therefore they are ugly, like they
Speaker 1: have masculine features, and so they're ugly and are voiced
Speaker 1: by male voice actors exactly, and not just male voice actors.
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I'm getting this right.
Speaker 1: Their voice by Larry King, and we just filled in
Speaker 1: I did not recognize those voices, and so you're like,
Speaker 1: and why on earth is that? I Like? I just
Speaker 1: was like, well, like, for what I mean? I don't
Speaker 1: think that this movie is as aggressively transphobic as the
Speaker 1: first movie, and not as aggressively transphobic as Shrek the Musical,
Speaker 1: which had to have several lines removed um for subsequent productions,
Speaker 1: which I think we've talked about on the show before,
Speaker 1: and Shrek two. This was a big part of our
Speaker 1: discussion because Shrek two is still leaning into a lot
Speaker 1: of very transphobic gender normative jokes, and because this is
Speaker 1: a sidebar, but because Shrek three is called Shrek the Third,
Speaker 1: I think Shrek two should have been called Shrek Jr.
Speaker 1: It's only right. But we can move on from that. Um.
Speaker 1: But yes, want bananas did get his own movie off manners. Um, Okay, No,
Speaker 1: but I I think it's it's I think frustrating that,
Speaker 1: from what I can remember, is the least transphobic Shrek
Speaker 1: movie and it's still pretty transphobic. Yes, and indeed, um,
Speaker 1: And it's baffling to me that in a movie franchise
Speaker 1: that's all about beauty is found within that being the
Speaker 1: sorry to say thrust again, but being the thrust of
Speaker 1: the narrative. Do not just don't include characters from literature
Speaker 1: who are called the ugly step sisters because like or
Speaker 1: if you're going to include them, subvert like you know,
Speaker 1: subvert that or like anything, just do something. But because
Speaker 1: these ugly subsister characters are presented as not conforming to
Speaker 1: rigid Western beauty standards, and it seems like the intention
Speaker 1: of the joke is something along the lines of these
Speaker 1: women are masculine and therefore ugly, right, horrible statement to
Speaker 1: make in any movie, but especially when targeted towards children,
Speaker 1: And why include about accepting yourself? Yeah, it's so it's
Speaker 1: just like these movies are like it's very shriky and
Speaker 1: for something to mean nothing because yeah, I was really
Speaker 1: I was really frustrated about that. It's so like, I
Speaker 1: guess I apologize if if we're not like having the
Speaker 1: conversation that deserves if we had about like transphobia inside
Speaker 1: of this franchise, this one for me famously uh this
Speaker 1: person with one brain cell. So but like there was
Speaker 1: so much like weird coding that it was like difficult
Speaker 1: to like, there wasn't an outright like the characters were
Speaker 1: not never declared to be anything, but uh, this woman.
Speaker 1: But like because of all these creative choices, you're like,
Speaker 1: the coding is there, the coding is for sure, they
Speaker 1: absolutely and like I just yeah, it's just so fucking
Speaker 1: ridiculous that. Yeah, like you're totally right that this franchise specifically,
Speaker 1: it's just nothing means anything. No, Nope, this is a sidebar.
Speaker 1: But like, also, why do people want Prince Charming to
Speaker 1: come back? I couldn't stand him in the last movie.
Speaker 1: Why is he back? I don't because they need a villain.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you know who should be back? More
Speaker 1: is Dragon again basically written out of this movie. This
Speaker 1: was also part of our discussion on the Shrek two
Speaker 1: episode where she's not in the movie because someone, maybe Fiona,
Speaker 1: is like, hey, Donkey, where's Dragon And he says, oh,
Speaker 1: she's really moody, So I'm like distancing myself from her.
Speaker 1: She's on her Dragon period, so you're just like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. In this one, when Donkey is about to
Speaker 1: embark on his ernie with Shrek, Dragon is there with
Speaker 1: their five babies, and Donkey says something like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want to leave either, but you know, Shrek
Speaker 1: he needs me. So Donkey is just like leaving Dragon
Speaker 1: with their many babies. He's shreking his parental responsibilities. Well,
Speaker 1: I will say I think that Donkey appears to be
Speaker 1: a good parent, which that is, he's very nurturing, he
Speaker 1: seems supportive and loving. Yeah, I think it is like, again,
Speaker 1: very trophy and shitty that it's like, well, the father
Speaker 1: needs to go on a quest and like the stay
Speaker 1: at home. I don't think it's even bad that Donkey
Speaker 1: goes on a quest, but it's like, well, but we're
Speaker 1: never going to see that in the reverse in these movies,
Speaker 1: and that is more the issue. I was happy that
Speaker 1: he that Donkey was enthusiastic about parenthood in opposition to Shrek,
Speaker 1: and I was happy that he was excited to be
Speaker 1: an uncle. Like I have no real issue with Donkey
Speaker 1: in this movie, and that's partially because he doesn't really
Speaker 1: do anything. He see Shrek's dick. That's that's the last
Speaker 1: thing that happens before the title sequence. This is very true.
Speaker 1: I also found it fascinating that so there's a moment
Speaker 1: where Pus starts explaining sex to Shrek to be like,
Speaker 1: this is how babies are made, and Shrek is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, because Shrek Fox, this is canon. We know this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he sucked his wife raw the day her father died. Yes,
Speaker 1: he's serious. Yeah, grow up people, and that's cannon Like
Speaker 1: put it on the Wikipedia page, Shreck, if you had
Speaker 1: a fun immediately after receiving the news of the death
Speaker 1: of her father. It's how they blow off steam, and
Speaker 1: you're rude to judge them for it. It was making love.
Speaker 1: It's not weird anyway. Okay, So so grief can look
Speaker 1: like anything. So pusses explaining sex and Shrek is like,
Speaker 1: I know. But then Donkey is like, wait, how does
Speaker 1: it work, as if Donkey doesn't understand sex or like
Speaker 1: conceiving of babies. Meanwhile, Donkey is the father of five children,
Speaker 1: so he presumably had sex. It does appear again, this
Speaker 1: is a very like it appears that Donkey's kids are
Speaker 1: all the same age, which and and Shrek eventually has
Speaker 1: I think triplets, which leads me to another thing that
Speaker 1: happens when five straight white guys write a movie together,
Speaker 1: which is that they seem to believe that women give
Speaker 1: birth in litters like like cats and dogs and um,
Speaker 1: and I celebrate that that is a level of not knowing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to assume because they're all like
Speaker 1: in their thirties and forties, statistically probably one of them
Speaker 1: is a parent, And like, how could you still say that? Um,
Speaker 1: it's really bizarre. No, not sure. No person with the
Speaker 1: womb gives for the gist. One. It's a bunch, it's
Speaker 1: a son of children. It's a heap what I will say.
Speaker 1: Going back quickly to the very like trophy gendered way
Speaker 1: in which the like Shrek and Fiona, parenthood storyline is represented,
Speaker 1: I did appreciate that the story takes it in the
Speaker 1: direction of Shrek not being worried about his life being ruined,
Speaker 1: because I think so much of that like trophy narrative
Speaker 1: is like, oh, you know, I don't want to get
Speaker 1: married to some ball and chain, I don't want to
Speaker 1: have kids. They're just gonna drag me down and not
Speaker 1: let me live my like whatever dick swinging lifestyle I
Speaker 1: want to live. But I at least appreciate that Shrek
Speaker 1: is like, I'm not worried about my life being ruined.
Speaker 1: I'm worried about not being a good parent and that
Speaker 1: I'm going to like mess up my kids, right. But
Speaker 1: his reasoning is, you know, ogres are not known for
Speaker 1: being sweet, nurturing caregivers. But the whole premise of the
Speaker 1: movie is that ogres are misunderstood and they are vilified
Speaker 1: for no reason and all these things. So it's curious
Speaker 1: why he I mean, I get why he's still why
Speaker 1: he thinks that, And again, I understand apprehension and reluctance
Speaker 1: as it relates to parenting. This is something though, that
Speaker 1: people of all genders experience, which we've talked about. But
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, again, it's like, it's not it's the
Speaker 1: same thing with um with Donkey going on a quest,
Speaker 1: It's not The issue isn't that he goes on a quest.
Speaker 1: The issue is that Dragon. It would never happen that
Speaker 1: Dragon would go on a quest. It's not an issue
Speaker 1: that Shrek has anxieties about what kind of parents he
Speaker 1: is going to be. Is that the franchise would never
Speaker 1: let Fiona have those same anxieties. It's an equitable environment
Speaker 1: for storytelling exactly. The final thing I want to say
Speaker 1: is that Ginger there's a scene where he is scared,
Speaker 1: surrounded by villains with weapons, and Gingi poops and what
Speaker 1: Gingi poops out is a little purple gum drop which
Speaker 1: is identical to the two purple gum drops on his chest.
Speaker 1: Does that mean that Gingy wears his own poop on
Speaker 1: his chest as nipples as two vertical nipples or or
Speaker 1: does he poop nipples? WHOA? Okay, these are some interesting
Speaker 1: thoughts that we have posited. Yes, don't rule it out.
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot to think about. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe this is our new scabs dry scabs.
Speaker 1: Does Gingie poop nipples? Or does he wear his ship
Speaker 1: as nipples? It's a good questions, a valid question. Did
Speaker 1: Shrek and Fiona actually we answer that question? Yes, And
Speaker 1: there's a tape. I've seen the tape. Have you ever
Speaker 1: seen the Colin Ferrell sex tape? Because I have no,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. It's good. Oh okay, nice. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess you can leave that in the episode or not,
Speaker 1: and I guess I'll just be surprised. All right, Okay, um,
Speaker 1: do you have anything else you want to say? Let
Speaker 1: me see what else? I mean? I think that like
Speaker 1: there's probably more to, oh, I guess um, Merlin. I
Speaker 1: feel like there's a bunch of like very of the
Speaker 1: time mental health jokes made around Merlin, where the Justin
Speaker 1: Timberlake character is like, oh, yeah, they sent Merlin out
Speaker 1: here after he had a mental breakdown, and it's like
Speaker 1: Merlin is using like mental health terms and Shrek is
Speaker 1: like shut up, Like but then he's also using extremely
Speaker 1: ablest language and a few examples, and he's also with
Speaker 1: that he's insulting other characters for their struggles with mental health.
Speaker 1: But then at the same time, like what Merlin does
Speaker 1: is helpful in like further characterizing Justin Timberlake. But then
Speaker 1: once Justin Timberlake uses the mental health exercise that Merlin
Speaker 1: has him do, Merlin is then like you're a basket case.
Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, which like, oh gosh,
Speaker 1: And all that happens there is that we learned that
Speaker 1: Arthur has abandonment issues because he was abandoned by his father.
Speaker 1: Of course that would lead to trauma for a person.
Speaker 1: But yeah, for Merlin to be like, Wow, what a nutcase,
Speaker 1: And then it's so ridiculous. I really can't stand it.
Speaker 1: Shrek the third, it's a stinky more like Shrek the Third.
Speaker 1: But is it more Shrek than nipples? We don't know.
Speaker 1: I think I smell some new merch coming. I think
Speaker 1: I smell some nipples. I oh god, no one wants
Speaker 1: that merch, Caitlin, Um oh subverse Okay, I did say
Speaker 1: subversion a plot Warlock, because we usually have plot witches
Speaker 1: a plot witch, but this time it's get Wizard, so
Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything, but it is something that happened. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I think. My last thought on this one
Speaker 1: is that this movie convinced me that Fiona would be
Speaker 1: not unreasonable to leave Shrek. I agree, Yeah, because if
Speaker 1: I'm Fiona and my husband doesn't even say, doesn't even say, well,
Speaker 1: you could do the job, because she we've just seen
Speaker 1: a whole montage where she's doing the job better than him.
Speaker 1: It's her family. Yeah, if I'm married to someone that
Speaker 1: it doesn't even occur to them. They would rather go
Speaker 1: on a quest and bring back justin timber Lake, then
Speaker 1: suggest that I could do a job that I had
Speaker 1: been doing to some extent for a huge chunk of
Speaker 1: my life. I would not stay with that ogre. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I think that, and I certainly wouldn't let
Speaker 1: them intred nate me. And that's and that's my feminism. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to be with someone who tells me I
Speaker 1: can do it a job, nothing else. Brave of you. Um,
Speaker 1: thank you. Some people will say that's extreme, not me.
Speaker 1: I support it, thank you. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: Shrek and Shreky in properties, I think they are being subversive.
Speaker 1: But now that we've covered three Shrek movies, and you
Speaker 1: better believe we're gonna at some point cover Shrek four
Speaker 1: and make no mistake, we're still absolutely wild about this
Speaker 1: franchise in spite of only really having negative things to
Speaker 1: say about it. Um, it's hard to explain. You wouldn't understand.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that was that was needlessly combative. You might
Speaker 1: understand that people have been listening to this show for
Speaker 1: seven years. You wouldn't understand. I bet there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people who would understand. I think I think so,
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry I came in too hot and I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have. I'm going to issue a notes ap apology
Speaker 1: for coming in too hot on the strike the third episode.
Speaker 1: I already forgive you, Jamie, but um, the point is
Speaker 1: to be Shreky and is to be subversive, but not
Speaker 1: but never in quite the right ways, never in ways
Speaker 1: that are actually commenting on things, or like championing marginalized people,
Speaker 1: or are using effective comedy things like that, except for
Speaker 1: the frog thing, which apparently really stuck with general audiences. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did kind of. So right after the frog King
Speaker 1: dies there's a like kind of funeral procession scene where
Speaker 1: it's like raining and dark and sad and some is
Speaker 1: playing and I did. I was like, damn, that is
Speaker 1: sad about that king. It was pretty Yeah, And again,
Speaker 1: like we were saying at the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: that could have been and you can kid the movie
Speaker 1: if I this Pixar movies exist, you know, like not
Speaker 1: that I want Shrek to be a Pixar movie. That
Speaker 1: would be so fun. Actually yeah, I actually don't want to,
Speaker 1: Like I don't really want Shrek to plumb the depths really,
Speaker 1: but like if you're going to have that whole funeral scene,
Speaker 1: you can't like never bring that up again. Like Fiona
Speaker 1: has lost her father, who we know because of Shrek too.
Speaker 1: She is a very complicated relationship with there's a whole
Speaker 1: like a huge chunk of Shrek two as about her
Speaker 1: father being convinced by the evil fairy Prince Charming's mother,
Speaker 1: the fairy Godmother, to force his daughter to change species again.
Speaker 1: And then like they find out at the end of
Speaker 1: that movie that they have this commonality where her father's
Speaker 1: a frog. Okay, I just I'm sounding too serious for
Speaker 1: the sentences I'm saying, no, no, no, no, keep going.
Speaker 1: Her father's a frog, Fianna is an ogre. They choose
Speaker 1: to stay in their natural forms. They don't want to conform, right,
Speaker 1: This is a huge thing they have in common. And
Speaker 1: it was a hard one thing for her dad to
Speaker 1: be able to admit that about himself. And I believe,
Speaker 1: if I'm remembering correctly, he owes a lot of his
Speaker 1: willingness to be in his natural form to seeing how
Speaker 1: happy his daughter is in her natural form. So it's
Speaker 1: like it's a whole like I mean, and Shrek two
Speaker 1: is like not good, but you have all that fucking raw,
Speaker 1: grizzly material and then you kill that character and the
Speaker 1: first ten minutes after this huge arc between them and
Speaker 1: she's like two seconds later it's like, well I'm gregnant now,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's like Fiona is always treated like
Speaker 1: only one thing can be happening with her. Um. That
Speaker 1: is not how Strek is treated. He's struggling with a
Speaker 1: bunch of different things that wants, and he's on a
Speaker 1: quest and he's da dada like. He's allowed to be
Speaker 1: very kind of multi. Yeah, yeah, he can have more
Speaker 1: than one thing going on at one time. But it's
Speaker 1: like Fiona can't be grieving and shregnant and interested in
Speaker 1: having a job. That would be too much. It's too
Speaker 1: much to ask for. I just you know. And the
Speaker 1: movie is only like two minutes long. There was room
Speaker 1: ten minute long credit. Are you joking, babe? It's I
Speaker 1: mean not that I'm gonna knock a movie for being
Speaker 1: eighty two minutes long. That's iconic. I love it. Please
Speaker 1: let there be more short movies. But yeah, that's to say,
Speaker 1: make it ninety minutes and give Fiona or cut out
Speaker 1: just a differently. I don't, Okay, we gotta get out
Speaker 1: of here. We gotta get out of here. You might leave.
Speaker 1: It passes the Bechtel test. It does pass when the
Speaker 1: princesses are insulting each other incessantly, and it does pass
Speaker 1: um when they are I believe, when they are planning
Speaker 1: the the attack, it does also pass, so there's I
Speaker 1: would say most of the passes are frustrating because it's
Speaker 1: like women insulting each other at very gendered events in
Speaker 1: very gendered ways like oh, you're not prettier, I'm prettier.
Speaker 1: To be fair, we are always saying that to each other,
Speaker 1: and that is true. I'm popping out shreds like a
Speaker 1: T shirt gun at a basketball game. So you know,
Speaker 1: like it passes the battle test. But the one true metric, yes,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And now is it the nipple scale
Speaker 1: or is it the ship drop ship scale? Hard to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: so our nipple scale or the scale formerly known as
Speaker 1: the nipple scale the artists formerly known scale zero to
Speaker 1: five nipples. Examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lenses,
Speaker 1: I would give Struck the third. I would give it
Speaker 1: a half nipple, just in case there are like small
Speaker 1: children out there, maybe little girls who saw that sequence
Speaker 1: where it is a very hollow girl power sequence or
Speaker 1: it ends up being hollow because it doesn't lead to
Speaker 1: any thing really, But in two thousand seven, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like in two thousand and seven that the pickens
Speaker 1: are slam and maybe you know, yeah, if you've if
Speaker 1: you found it, I powering more power to you and
Speaker 1: you've got better options now I agree with you there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so just for that like little sliver of something that
Speaker 1: could be empowering for viewers, I will give it a
Speaker 1: half nipple. But because of everything else we discussed, it
Speaker 1: does not deserve more than that. I feel it doesn't,
Speaker 1: so I'll give my half nipple too. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I should give it to Fiona, who always deserves
Speaker 1: more than she's given in these movies, or if I
Speaker 1: should give it to Gingi's possible gum drop nipple slash
Speaker 1: possible piece of poop. I mean, I think you know
Speaker 1: the answer, and it's feminists will be furious, but it's
Speaker 1: the gum drop poop slash nipple. Yeah, it is very
Speaker 1: much is what do you think you know? I think
Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm gonna match you and and so that
Speaker 1: Ginge and have a full poop nipple, full hot shit.
Speaker 1: I will. I will bequeath the same half nipple. There's
Speaker 1: really not this is I think allow for the franchise,
Speaker 1: but I also don't really remember what happens in Shrek
Speaker 1: four because someone was someone the hands inside of me
Speaker 1: and so it may get worse. I feel like it
Speaker 1: gets better. I think the fourth one involves time travel.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. I can't know, or or the prequel or
Speaker 1: the prequel it doesn't like justin Timberlake is not in it. Okay,
Speaker 1: good and and we thank our lucky stars. Yes, he
Speaker 1: was too busy. He was doing so set right. I
Speaker 1: have never seen Shrek four, so I am excited to
Speaker 1: watch it. And once again, I'll just be plugging puts
Speaker 1: in boots the Last Wish, which was an incredible piece
Speaker 1: of art and cinema, cinema cinema. On that note, happy
Speaker 1: New Year to all and to all a good but
Speaker 1: also that was subversive. That subverse notes incredible. Jamie, before you,
Speaker 1: but before you have to all a good Shrek. Scoot
Speaker 1: on over to our Matreon, where we have the Pinocchio
Speaker 1: Wars about to happen, actively happening. It's coming, especially if
Speaker 1: you enjoy um these kinds of episodes. We do them
Speaker 1: pretty rarely on the main feed, but um, most of
Speaker 1: our Matreon episodes are just me and Caitlin tend to
Speaker 1: be a little looser. The movies tend to be generally
Speaker 1: pretty light, um, except for this month when we're doing
Speaker 1: the Pinocchio Wars, which is actually really serious. We're covering
Speaker 1: both the bad Robert Samakis one and the allegedly good
Speaker 1: Del Toro one. I still have yet to watch them,
Speaker 1: but I can't wait. I love that Tom Hanks is
Speaker 1: in his flop era. It's so interesting. He's he's flopping around.
Speaker 1: He's about to be a man called Auto and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing that. I'm gonna see Megan five times.
Speaker 1: I already have my tickets. I have my tickets. Do
Speaker 1: you want to go to Marrow Night? Maybe because my
Speaker 1: ticket already? Oh wait, sorry I forgot your busy. Okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. You'll go again, and I'll go
Speaker 1: with you. So the Matron is five dollars a month
Speaker 1: and you get to bonus episodes and access to a
Speaker 1: bad catalog of well over a hundred episodes. We've been
Speaker 1: doing the Matreon for around five years, it's true. Also,
Speaker 1: you can follow us on social media. You certainly can
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter, and then you can go to
Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast, where we
Speaker 1: have none other than a brand new shreky in shirt
Speaker 1: pillow phone case, other items, well, probably for promo images
Speaker 1: post with our with our shreky in merch. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: we have some brag. We also have other new designs.
Speaker 1: We have the Flubber Mambo by Danny Elfman, which is
Speaker 1: a design honestly I wanted and so it had to happen. Also,
Speaker 1: I think it's a really fun design. It's great, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: And we have feminist icon Paddington's and much demanded. Um.
Speaker 1: I drank tea from my feminist icon Paddington mug this
Speaker 1: morning because I don't recognize who I am as a
Speaker 1: person anymore drinking tea. Oh my gosh, Jamie, Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I changed well, uh and that so that you can
Speaker 1: get that over at tea public dot com, slash v
Speaker 1: beck del cast. If you participate in Valentine's Day facori
Speaker 1: and so forth, they're fun little gifts, give them to whoever.
Speaker 1: I was not sure where that was going for a minute,
Speaker 1: because I forgot I was take me on a date.
Speaker 1: I forgot that like people love each other and they
Speaker 1: give each other gifts romantically. For Valentine's Day, I got
Speaker 1: a hat for the HOLID got a hat for the holidays,
Speaker 1: and it's from It's from a livestock contest that happened
Speaker 1: in Ventura County. Most romantic gift I've ever received. It's like, wow,
Speaker 1: you get me, even more romantic of a gift than
Speaker 1: the give Carl. Okay, we gotta go, We gotta go.
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye