Speaker 1: Everyone, Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors showed today.
Speaker 1: I am so excited because I am sitting down with
Speaker 1: someone who I've been following for a really long time,
Speaker 1: Doug Casey. Um, if you're into gold, you probably know
Speaker 1: who Doug Casey is. He's the founder of Casey Research,
Speaker 1: best selling authors several books, including the book Crisis Investing
Speaker 1: from best selling Book, and currently he's writing a new
Speaker 1: blog called The International Man. And he definitely is the
Speaker 1: International Man. Doug, thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 1: the show. Well, it's supposed to visit with you Mark
Speaker 1: at the moment, I'm in the quiet backward, a little
Speaker 1: welfare state of Uruguay where I've been sitting out this
Speaker 1: COVID hysteria. Oh wow, do you do you are the
Speaker 1: International Man? Well? Um, I gave a little bit of
Speaker 1: an intro, and of course, like I said, I've been
Speaker 1: following you for a long time, at least a dozen
Speaker 1: years at this point. But I'm guessing there might be
Speaker 1: a couple of people left that aren't sure who you are.
Speaker 1: So just give us a quick background on kind of
Speaker 1: maybe what you've been doing and where you're at right now. Well,
Speaker 1: my first book was called The International Man, and it
Speaker 1: was a guide book to making the most of your
Speaker 1: personal freedom and financial opportunity around the world, among other things.
Speaker 1: That book became the largest selling book in the history
Speaker 1: of Rhodesia. Uh and that's one record that's never going
Speaker 1: to be broken. UH. And of course my current blog
Speaker 1: is called international Man dot com kind of after that book.
Speaker 1: And then my second book, Crisis Investing, became the largest
Speaker 1: selling book of the year on the of any type,
Speaker 1: and it was number one on the New York Times
Speaker 1: list for eighteen weeks and on the list for about
Speaker 1: thirty so. And I've written a number of books since then,
Speaker 1: although now I'm basically doing novels, because there are many
Speaker 1: things that you can say in the form of fiction
Speaker 1: that you actually dare not say in the form of nonfiction.
Speaker 1: First novel happened to have a copy with me is Speculator,
Speaker 1: which is a story about the gold mining business, with
Speaker 1: our hero Charles Knight, making a couple hundred million dollars,
Speaker 1: which is possible in bull markets in gold, and then
Speaker 1: having it stolen from him after he gets involved in
Speaker 1: a bush war in Africa, where I've spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time and uh, and I wrote drug Lord, and
Speaker 1: we're just finishing one called Assassin now, which is really
Speaker 1: kind of a hot potato because it goes into the
Speaker 1: morality and the history and the ethics of the techniques
Speaker 1: of political assassination. Just kind of now. I suspect it
Speaker 1: will do well. Because it was a title like Assassin,
Speaker 1: most people we'll think, oh, it must be about killing Trump.
Speaker 1: I'm not against Trump. Actually, he's vastly the alternative for
Speaker 1: whatever problems he has, and he does have problems, to
Speaker 1: believe me. But anyway, that's what I'm doing. That's kind
Speaker 1: of who I am. Mark. Yeah, that's great. Um. Now
Speaker 1: I'm curious, um, just dipping into the novel for a
Speaker 1: little bit. Now again, Right, you've made your career investing,
Speaker 1: crisis investing, speculating, um, and now you're writing novels about speculators.
Speaker 1: And so really it seems like the last thirty years
Speaker 1: or so, really you've been um, trying to educate people
Speaker 1: right through your research that you've been done doing and
Speaker 1: so forth your books you've been writing. I'm curious through
Speaker 1: the novels still teach people, but in more of like
Speaker 1: a story format or is it just like for fun
Speaker 1: and there's really no lesson there. No, there's lots of
Speaker 1: lessons that are the UH. The first novel, Specular Later,
Speaker 1: is actually a a fun textbook in the gold mining
Speaker 1: industry and the gold mining stock market, UH, and all
Speaker 1: of the problems, the scandals, the frauds that come up
Speaker 1: with it. Our hero in the book gets lucky on
Speaker 1: a punt he makes on a gold mining stock that
Speaker 1: has a property in Africa. So he decides to go
Speaker 1: to the country of Gondwana to check it out, and
Speaker 1: from there he gets involved in a in a bush war.
Speaker 1: And so no, it's it's a great story, but you
Speaker 1: can learn a lot about the way the gold mining
Speaker 1: business works in it, just as a drug lord. Second book,
Speaker 1: you can learn a lot about the drug business because
Speaker 1: in my younger years I toyed with the idea of
Speaker 1: becoming a drug lord. Long story, don't want to hear
Speaker 1: it now. And of course I'm not really toying in
Speaker 1: the third book with the idea of becoming an assassin.
Speaker 1: But I think for the next decade, UH, what we're
Speaker 1: looking at, Mark is the beginning, well, the climax of
Speaker 1: the collapse of Western civilization, which is a which is
Speaker 1: a genuine tragedy. So, um, yeah, these are things you
Speaker 1: can say in fiction that it's better than a nonfiction.
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, definitely makes sense now for everybody that's
Speaker 1: tune in and watching. As I said, I mean, doud Casey,
Speaker 1: he's a legend. He's been really reporting on this type
Speaker 1: of stuff that I talked about all the time for
Speaker 1: over thirty years. Um, and we're gonna dig into crisis investing.
Speaker 1: What he sees happening right now. I'm gonna ask him about, um,
Speaker 1: where we see things going, what the endgame is, what
Speaker 1: happens to gold, Um, maybe get into bitcoin if he wants,
Speaker 1: and really kind of what we what he sees as
Speaker 1: as happening here. So a lot we're gonna unpack. Um,
Speaker 1: So stay with us. We're gonna dig into some good stuff.
Speaker 1: But Doug back to UM, So back to the book
Speaker 1: Crisis Investing. Um, tell us about crisis investing and how
Speaker 1: is that, how is that like your thesis and how
Speaker 1: have you kind of followed this crisis investing well. As
Speaker 1: the government has become more powerful over the last century,
Speaker 1: actually since since World War One, it's become more and
Speaker 1: more important to perfect your skills as a speculator even
Speaker 1: more than an investor. Uh. An investor is somebody that
Speaker 1: allocates money in order to create new wealth, that's excellent.
Speaker 1: A speculator is a little bit different. A speculators somebody
Speaker 1: who capitalizes on distortions in the marketplace, generally politically caused distortions.
Speaker 1: And I'm afraid that with the trillions of dollars being
Speaker 1: created by the US government and many many trillions more
Speaker 1: currency units by every other government in the world, now, uh,
Speaker 1: it's going to become very very hard to be an
Speaker 1: investor in the years to come. You're almost going to
Speaker 1: be forced to be a speculator. So that's why the
Speaker 1: gold mining business in particular is a good place to
Speaker 1: be right now, because I think that there's going to
Speaker 1: be a panic into gold. It's not cheap anymore from
Speaker 1: some points of view, but it's going a lot higher
Speaker 1: before this is over, because they're going to destroy the dollar. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: obviously he wrote that book back in and they've been
Speaker 1: destroying the dollar. I mean, whatever date you want to
Speaker 1: put on it, definitely since nine seventy one, right when
Speaker 1: they when they left the gold standard. Um, so ten
Speaker 1: years later you wrote the book. Um, But here we
Speaker 1: are thirty years later and they're still destroying the dollar. Um. Right,
Speaker 1: They're still printing more dollars um. Does it seem like
Speaker 1: at some point like how long can they keep this
Speaker 1: charade going? Uh? Yeah, I don't think they can keep
Speaker 1: it going much longer, because at this point, the government's
Speaker 1: debt is on a hyper while I curve, in other words,
Speaker 1: starting seriously back inteventy one, with the dollar was completely
Speaker 1: cut loose from gold, it grew gradually, gradually, gradually, and
Speaker 1: a couple of years and with the with the crisis
Speaker 1: of two thousand eight and on, we passed the knee
Speaker 1: where the curve started getting closer to the vertical. Now
Speaker 1: it's heading towards the vertical. Uh So, I don't think
Speaker 1: this is going to go on another thirty years. I
Speaker 1: think THEES are going to be the most catastrophic decade
Speaker 1: that we've had for a very long time. It could
Speaker 1: be not just the biggest thing since World War Two,
Speaker 1: but it could be the biggest thing since the Industrial Revolution.
Speaker 1: Although I I hasten to say that the Industrial Revolution
Speaker 1: was a wonderful thing, but what's going on now is
Speaker 1: going to be a horrible thing. Most of the people
Speaker 1: Most of the people in the world that have any
Speaker 1: savings have their savings in currency, preferably in dollars. But
Speaker 1: when they destroy the dollar, it's going to create chaos,
Speaker 1: social chaos, financial chaos, economic chaos, political chaos, and before
Speaker 1: it's all over, it may wind up in something resembling
Speaker 1: World War three. I know this sounds very apocalyptic, but
Speaker 1: we're in the early stages of something that's very, very,
Speaker 1: very bad. This depression, I call it the Greater Depression,
Speaker 1: is not only going to be uh, much worse, but
Speaker 1: much different and much longer were lasting than the pleasantness
Speaker 1: of nine to nine. So that's the overview in a nutshell. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think you know, not to be doom
Speaker 1: and gloom, but I mean I think a lot of people,
Speaker 1: most people are seeing the same thing that you are. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of last year, we had
Speaker 1: what eight different countries with over a million people each uprising.
Speaker 1: Um And obviously coronavirus has slowed that down, but that's
Speaker 1: not going away. We're gonna we're gonna see that. Um.
Speaker 1: And so I think, yeah, you're not just doing gloom.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what everybody sees. Yeah, I hate to
Speaker 1: be associated with doom and gloom because actually, the longest trend,
Speaker 1: I'll give you a give you a counter argument if
Speaker 1: you were the longest trend in motion is the ascent
Speaker 1: of man. It's been going on for two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: years and things have been getting better faster as time
Speaker 1: has gone on. It's almost like more as Low applied
Speaker 1: to anthropology. Uh So there is good news and uh
Speaker 1: what we're looking at financially and economically in in these
Speaker 1: other ways, you know that tool will pass. And uh,
Speaker 1: I'm a believer in Ray Kurzwild's concept of the singularity,
Speaker 1: and kurz Wild makes uh, I think it's almost a
Speaker 1: bulletproof case that within twenty years, with the development of
Speaker 1: everything from the perfection of computing technology, the perfection of nanotechnology,
Speaker 1: genetic engineering, other forms of biotechnology, robots, uh, that we're
Speaker 1: going to go into a whole new era. So we
Speaker 1: just have a rough spot to go through over the
Speaker 1: next ten years. So that's why you want to preserve
Speaker 1: your capital and make it grow so you're in a
Speaker 1: position to take advantage of the good times that are
Speaker 1: gonna come after these bad times are over right, right,
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Um So back in wrote that book. I've
Speaker 1: known you, I mean not not not that long. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I've known you for being the gold guy. I'm curious
Speaker 1: what brought you to gold. Was it being the speculator, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can make a bunch of money in gold because
Speaker 1: I see this asset going up for different reasons? Or
Speaker 1: was it something more like fundamental where um, you recognized
Speaker 1: that without gold being u and having a sound money, um,
Speaker 1: the whole system was going to fall apart. Was it
Speaker 1: was it the best speculator or was it more like ideological? Well, actually,
Speaker 1: I hate to say ideological. I'd prefer to say philosophical.
Speaker 1: You have to recognize what gold is. It's money, and
Speaker 1: it's most basic form you. A lot of things can
Speaker 1: be used and haven't used his money, everything from cigarettes
Speaker 1: to seashells. Someone uses money. But gold is uniquely well
Speaker 1: qualified for uses money for reasons that Aristotle enumerated in
Speaker 1: the fifth century VC. It's durable, divisible, convenient, consistent, and
Speaker 1: it has use value. You can't get stuck with it. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's actually better and different than the other the
Speaker 1: rest of the other ninety two naturally occurring elements for
Speaker 1: the use of use is money. But the thing to
Speaker 1: remember is with money, gold is the only financial asset
Speaker 1: that's not simultaneously somebody else's liability. And the Federal Reserve
Speaker 1: notes that we call dollars today are the liability of
Speaker 1: our central bank. They're backed by nothing. So this is
Speaker 1: all gonna blow up, and that's gonna be worldwide because
Speaker 1: the other central banks in the world. People think that
Speaker 1: things like the Federal Reserve and other central banks, I
Speaker 1: think that these things are part of the cosmic firmament,
Speaker 1: but they're not. Uh So, yeah, you were our own
Speaker 1: gold because it is the only financial asset that it's
Speaker 1: not somebody else's liability. Yeah. Now, you've been doing this
Speaker 1: for a long time and at the end of the day, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been writing books and newsletters and trying
Speaker 1: to get the information or the education out there. Um.
Speaker 1: I love this quote from Henry Ford um back in
Speaker 1: early he said that if the people understood how the
Speaker 1: banking system work, there would be a revolution overnight. And
Speaker 1: really they've been able to kind of hide it, almost
Speaker 1: hide all this, like people don't really understand the dollar,
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve note, whatever. But now I think, especially with
Speaker 1: the rise of the internet, getting information out better. And
Speaker 1: now what I'm seeing with bitcoin and people being more
Speaker 1: interested than ever, We're starting to see a lot of
Speaker 1: people waking up to this. Now, do you do you
Speaker 1: see this trend growing like people are like getting their
Speaker 1: eyes opened. Yeah. Absolutely. One of the great things about bitcoin, Uh,
Speaker 1: I wasn't an early adopter, but I've been a big
Speaker 1: adopter and it's been very very good to me, uh,
Speaker 1: is that bitcoin has has drawn people's attention to the
Speaker 1: nature of money. People that are involved in bitcoin have
Speaker 1: taken to calling the dollar a fiat currency yep, which
Speaker 1: it is so uh. Once people own bitcoin, they have
Speaker 1: to start figuring out what wait have been? What doves
Speaker 1: bitcoin is value? Why do I want to own it?
Speaker 1: So this leads them naturally into economics and monetary theory,
Speaker 1: So that bitcoin has been very helpful and letting the
Speaker 1: cat out of the bag about what's going on monetarily.
Speaker 1: So you're quite correct. Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ei, there's so many things that I love
Speaker 1: about bitcoin, but just the fact that it's got people
Speaker 1: to want to learn more, that in itself is just
Speaker 1: such a big piece. Um. So you know you've been
Speaker 1: you've been doing this for a long time, thirty years.
Speaker 1: You've seen gold go through several cycles. Um. Where as
Speaker 1: far as gold and a cycle, right now, it seems
Speaker 1: like now we're breaking out of maybe just like regular
Speaker 1: like cycles and actually going into more of like fundamental
Speaker 1: reasons why we need it, um, meaning like never have
Speaker 1: we seen, as you already said, right the Fed printing
Speaker 1: trillions of dollars interest rates going negative? UM. So do
Speaker 1: you see this as being like the fine like the
Speaker 1: final bull market for gold right now? Uh? Actually, I
Speaker 1: think it is the final bowl market for gold, because
Speaker 1: by the time of this catastrophe is over, I think
Speaker 1: the gold is going to be reinstitutionalized as money. UM.
Speaker 1: Let's look at the history of gold prices, because what
Speaker 1: we want to do is make money from this or
Speaker 1: or let's say, increase our not wealth and increase our
Speaker 1: standard of living. Uh. Before at seventy one, gold was
Speaker 1: controlled thirty five dollars announced it was suppressed in price
Speaker 1: by the government, So it exploded upward over the decade
Speaker 1: of the nineteen seventies, which were a bad decade in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, um from other points of view,
Speaker 1: until it hit about eight hundred fifty dollars announced in
Speaker 1: January of nineteen eighty. Okay, so it was over priced
Speaker 1: then and subsequently, uh it fell, stock market did well,
Speaker 1: the economy recovered. Uh it got as low as two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty hours announced in nineteen in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, and interestingly, gold at two hundred fifty dollars
Speaker 1: announced in two thousand one was actually cheaper in real
Speaker 1: terms than gold in nineteen seventy one at thirty five dollars.
Speaker 1: Now because the dollar lost so much value, al right,
Speaker 1: where are we now. It's going from a loan that
Speaker 1: was twenty years ago, so in urns of today's dollar.
Speaker 1: Uh it hit a load back then of seven and
Speaker 1: I think this ballmarket it's gonna take it just close
Speaker 1: to ten dollars announce. I hate to pick up price
Speaker 1: at a time, but it's gonna go a lot higher
Speaker 1: because there's gonna be a panic into gold. People are
Speaker 1: gonna try to get out of dollars. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: if you live in a place like Venezuela or Zimbabwe,
Speaker 1: you don't even use those currencies. The dollar is gonna
Speaker 1: be much more serious when it falls apart, because it
Speaker 1: backs all the other currencies in the world, everything is
Speaker 1: priced in dollars. UH. When an economy like Venezuela or Zimbabwe,
Speaker 1: the two most recent bad examples, collapses, well they're small
Speaker 1: places and foreigners can bring money in and rebuild. But
Speaker 1: when the US collapses and brings the rest of the
Speaker 1: world with it, uh, this is much more serious. And
Speaker 1: some nothing nowhere country destroying gets currency. But it's gonna
Speaker 1: right here in the US now. One thing to keep
Speaker 1: in mind, just for the listeners, um, is that you know,
Speaker 1: when you just talk about gold going to ten thousand
Speaker 1: dollars an ounce, um, you also have to recognize, like,
Speaker 1: what does that mean for the dollar in itself? Right?
Speaker 1: So in Zimbabwe they have one hundred trillion dollar bank
Speaker 1: notes and you know, keep one of my keep point
Speaker 1: in my wall, and I've spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: in Zimbabwe, and like and for what it's worth, mark,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a fun fact. A hundred
Speaker 1: trillion dollars Zimbabwe note uh. And the president of the
Speaker 1: central bank that printed up happens to be a friend
Speaker 1: of mine. Long story that's not relevant right now. A
Speaker 1: hundred trillion dollars Zimbabwe no trades today for around sixty
Speaker 1: eight dollars, so you could have picked them up for
Speaker 1: nothing back and around two thousand three four when they
Speaker 1: were being printed. Uh, they've actually been excellent those pieces
Speaker 1: of paper. That's interesting. I bought one, um, but as
Speaker 1: a collect collectible. It was in like man condition. I
Speaker 1: bought it, I like a year ago, and uh, maybe
Speaker 1: ten bucks done. I don't know, Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1: I want to say it was like ten bucks or
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen bucks or something like that. I forget, but yeah,
Speaker 1: something like that. But I guess the point being, Um,
Speaker 1: you know when I was a kid being a millionaire
Speaker 1: or not not even a kid, I mean ten years
Speaker 1: ago being a millionaire with something, Hey, like being a
Speaker 1: millionaire isn't what it used to be, and like being
Speaker 1: a billionaire isn't even a big deal anymore. When people
Speaker 1: like Elon Musk or Worth they say eighty billion dollars, right,
Speaker 1: So I mean when when you say gold going to
Speaker 1: ten thousand, like I might be a billionaire at that point,
Speaker 1: you know or whatever. Right, So, uh, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm gonna be able to buy my purchasing
Speaker 1: power will be what a billionaire does today. It just
Speaker 1: means that's what the dollars are right. Look, the dollar
Speaker 1: is sure liability of a bankrupt government. It's basically an
Speaker 1: I owe you nothing. Sure it's still got value because
Speaker 1: you can take it down to the Chevy dealer and
Speaker 1: he'll sell you a car for it. But things are
Speaker 1: going to change very, very rapidly over the next couple
Speaker 1: of years. Do you see it? So you've been you've
Speaker 1: been you've been reading, watching, reading, reporting on this for
Speaker 1: thirty years. Um. You know, as we've already kind of
Speaker 1: talked about, it's like this escalating thing. Um and uh,
Speaker 1: I mean now you're talking about it like maybe coming
Speaker 1: to an end at some point. I'm just curious. Do
Speaker 1: you think that the Fed still has a couple more
Speaker 1: tricks up their sleeve? I mean, I guess at some
Speaker 1: point the printing just stops working. That's that's kind of
Speaker 1: what you see. Uh yeah, I think we're at the
Speaker 1: end game right now, because even in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: who could have guessed that they take interest rate? I
Speaker 1: thought it was cosmically impossible to have interest rates to
Speaker 1: go below zero. But they have. Uh so what have
Speaker 1: they done? They've taken interest rates as low as they
Speaker 1: can go. Uh. They they're printing up money by the
Speaker 1: bushel basket. So now what do they do? Um, Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if they can pull another rabbit out
Speaker 1: of their hat or not. But I'll tell you what's
Speaker 1: going on outside of the US. And most Americans, especially
Speaker 1: now during the COVID hysteria, don't really look beyond our
Speaker 1: borders very much. But look, take Russia and China when
Speaker 1: they do when they trade with each other. They don't
Speaker 1: use yuan and rubles because the Chinese don't want Russian
Speaker 1: rubles they don't trust them. Why should they, And the
Speaker 1: Russians don't want Chinese U want for the same reason.
Speaker 1: So what do they do? How do they how do
Speaker 1: they exchange goods? Well, they use dollars and those dollars
Speaker 1: have to clear through New York. It's completely ridiculous that
Speaker 1: two large economies have to use a third country's currency
Speaker 1: when that third country is an adversary and could become
Speaker 1: an enemy. So my guess is, and this is starting
Speaker 1: to happen between other countries now that they actually settle
Speaker 1: debts and trading in gold. This is actually starting to happen. Uh.
Speaker 1: So that's why this would be the final gold bull market.
Speaker 1: It will get to a level that makes sense relative
Speaker 1: to the rest of the wealth in the world, and uh,
Speaker 1: it will be really, it will be reinstituted as day
Speaker 1: to day money. People forget that. Up until Roosevelt in
Speaker 1: three gold was day to day money. Uh, it was
Speaker 1: in your pocket in the form of gold coins. I
Speaker 1: think I think we're going to see that again, although
Speaker 1: with the variation, Uh, it could be digital gold, whereof
Speaker 1: you use the blockchain to trade gold electronically, something like that.
Speaker 1: The downside of the gold, though, is the centralization that's
Speaker 1: required of that. So gold is big and heavy, and
Speaker 1: so you need someone to store it and guard it
Speaker 1: and remove it. So you always have this centralization um.
Speaker 1: And anytime you have centralization, then you have manipulation UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that's maybe what caused the death of
Speaker 1: gold in the first place. Right you had all the
Speaker 1: gold centralized by the banks, and then at some point
Speaker 1: they just well then then they count confiscated whatever goal
Speaker 1: was left, and next thing you know, they now they
Speaker 1: completely manipulated the system. So it seems like if we
Speaker 1: go back to a gold system that's again centralized, we
Speaker 1: might be susceptible to going back down the exact same
Speaker 1: path again. Well, of course I don't believe the government
Speaker 1: belongs in the money business. There we go, separate money
Speaker 1: and state. I mean, separate a state and money, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean they separated the state from religion yep, centuries ago.
Speaker 1: Now it's time to separate the state from the economy. Um.
Speaker 1: So money is a market phenomenon. You don't need the
Speaker 1: state involved in it at all. Once the state gets
Speaker 1: hold of money, uh, they use it as a form
Speaker 1: of indirect taxation. And this is very serious because the
Speaker 1: US government is totally incompletely bankrupt now. It has been
Speaker 1: for decades actually, but now, um, now the raps are
Speaker 1: off now everybody can actually see what's going on. So
Speaker 1: this is why I buy gold personally in the form
Speaker 1: of fungible coins. Yeah. Now, um, I want to I
Speaker 1: want to chase down the end game, as you call it,
Speaker 1: and talk about what that actually looks like. I have
Speaker 1: a couple of questions for you there, um, and see
Speaker 1: the big question I want to ask is UH inflation
Speaker 1: or deflation in gold. But before we get to that, UM,
Speaker 1: I know you were telling me before we started recording that, Um,
Speaker 1: you're actually part of a a pretty big company that
Speaker 1: I've been kind of following a gold mining company. Actually
Speaker 1: it's called gold mining, right, Um, Do you want to
Speaker 1: tell me about that? Well, over the year, there are,
Speaker 1: as you may know, Mark, about two thousand uh gold
Speaker 1: companies in the world, companies that are involved in exploring for,
Speaker 1: or developing or producing gold. About two thousand of them.
Speaker 1: Most of them are burning matches, uh, I mean the
Speaker 1: next thing up from a couple of prospectors out in
Speaker 1: the desert hoping to find the treasure of Sierra Madre.
Speaker 1: Most of them aren't worth owning. So over the years
Speaker 1: I've become very particular about the ones that I buy.
Speaker 1: And actually, just after its founding, I got involved with
Speaker 1: Gold Mining Inc. It's one of my largest positions. I'm
Speaker 1: continuing to buy it um for several reasons. Uh. I
Speaker 1: like the management very much, and in speculating in mining stocks,
Speaker 1: I developed something called the nine P S C Demonic,
Speaker 1: the nine things you want to look at before you
Speaker 1: buy any mining company. The number one P is people
Speaker 1: who's running the company, because the good people can turn
Speaker 1: a nothing into a giant company. Bad people can take
Speaker 1: a giant company and run into the ground. People's number
Speaker 1: one second thing is the property. There are things the
Speaker 1: finances spelled with the pH uh and others the promotion politics. UH.
Speaker 1: Perhaps they're relevant to go into all those things at
Speaker 1: the moment. But Gold Mining Inc. Is UH one of
Speaker 1: my biggest positions. Why because during the recent bear market
Speaker 1: UH for gold cyclically it's it was going to from
Speaker 1: twenty eleven when it hit its last peak, went down
Speaker 1: to as low as about during that bearer market. Amer Nanny,
Speaker 1: who runs the company UH has been buying a lot
Speaker 1: of properties, slightly sub economic properties. UH. And now he
Speaker 1: has twenty five million ounces of resources. UH. This is
Speaker 1: a huge number. I mean now even the largest UM,
Speaker 1: the largest companies in the world only have well Barrick
Speaker 1: and Newmont, let's say, fifty million ounces of reserves. Reserves
Speaker 1: are different than resources, Uh, an important distinction to make.
Speaker 1: But the resources, which is to say, suburbs gold is
Speaker 1: in the ground. It just hasn't been proven to be
Speaker 1: economic proven, but we know that it is. UM. Right now,
Speaker 1: you can buy gold in the ground with Gold Mining Inc.
Speaker 1: Uh for about ten dollars announce. Uh that's a trivial
Speaker 1: amount because right now with gold at about two thou
Speaker 1: dollars announce. The industry is coining money. It's buying gold
Speaker 1: at ten dollars announced in the goal in the ground. Look,
Speaker 1: the stock is very, very cheap. That's that's why it's
Speaker 1: that's why it's about my third largest position. Another thing
Speaker 1: I mentioned about it is that they're planning on getting
Speaker 1: into the royalty business. And incidentally my largest position as
Speaker 1: a company called Metalla, which is a royalty company. Otherwise
Speaker 1: they don't mind the gold. And what they do is
Speaker 1: um pay the mining company cash upfront so they can
Speaker 1: mind the gold and then take a royalty on the
Speaker 1: gold after it comes out of the ground. Long story.
Speaker 1: But the gold by again is also got to get
Speaker 1: that it's this it's a stock training it around two
Speaker 1: dollars us UM. I think within the next year we'll
Speaker 1: see it much much higher. Yeah, Yeah, I've I've been
Speaker 1: talking about gold miners quite a bit on the channel
Speaker 1: um And and I've even talked about how to how
Speaker 1: to find the good ones, how to value them. And
Speaker 1: I also said the first thing I look for is
Speaker 1: the team the people. As you say, um And and
Speaker 1: I basically said kind of the same thing you said,
Speaker 1: which is a good team isn't gonna go work for
Speaker 1: a bad company, right like, and so they do that.
Speaker 1: That helps with a lot of the vetting if I
Speaker 1: see a good team. And so when I was looking
Speaker 1: through this company, I saw you were part of it,
Speaker 1: and I figured, wow, were they got dug in? They
Speaker 1: must be pretty good And it looked like, Uh, the
Speaker 1: CEO they hired um for their mining company, David Gara,
Speaker 1: follows also like a industry titan, right. I mean he
Speaker 1: was like one of the founder was part of the
Speaker 1: biggest merger in the gold mining space. Yeah. This this
Speaker 1: company is going to be listed on the New York
Speaker 1: Stock Exchange in their future. It's going to draw a
Speaker 1: lot of attention to it. And it's gonna draw a
Speaker 1: lot of attention to it because of the people that
Speaker 1: are running the company, because of the assets it has,
Speaker 1: because it is going to be a bubble in gold
Speaker 1: stocks generally. Uh. Look, all gold stocks in the world,
Speaker 1: uh two thousand of most of them are crappy, but
Speaker 1: add up their values together and they're less than one
Speaker 1: half of one of the value of the stock market.
Speaker 1: In fact, if you take all of the gold producers
Speaker 1: in the world and take their market caps together, they're
Speaker 1: just slightly more than the amount of cash that Apple
Speaker 1: alone has in its bank accounts. That's how small and
Speaker 1: unknown the industry is. Nobody knows. Look, fund managers have
Speaker 1: been taught to treat gold as a pent rock. They
Speaker 1: don't care about it. It's totally off the radar screens.
Speaker 1: But in my opinion, the next bubble, I mean, we've
Speaker 1: had a housing bubble, We've had an internet bubble. Uh.
Speaker 1: They create all these trillions of dollars. It goes from
Speaker 1: one bubble to the next. In my view, the next
Speaker 1: bubble is going to be in gold stocks and gold.
Speaker 1: So you want to get positioned and these things now,
Speaker 1: and you want to get into cheap companies that have
Speaker 1: the gold, have the management, the type of thing that
Speaker 1: when the fund managers start buying these things, which they
Speaker 1: are not yet. Although Warren Buffett incidentally, for the first
Speaker 1: time in history about a gold stock, he bought twenty
Speaker 1: million shares of Barrack uh was released in his last quarterly.
Speaker 1: So this is like a straw on the wind. Uh. Now,
Speaker 1: this is you want to be positioned to these things
Speaker 1: now because in the past, when we've had gold bull markets,
Speaker 1: and we've had five of them since nineteen seventy one,
Speaker 1: the average junior mining stock has gone up about ten
Speaker 1: times in price. That are the most volatile securities on
Speaker 1: the planet. Yeah, this is going to be one for
Speaker 1: the record books. Yeah. I just made a video talking
Speaker 1: about Warren Buffett buying buying in the golden Obviously for
Speaker 1: twenty years he's been saying I would never buy gold.
Speaker 1: You know, you dig it out of the ground and
Speaker 1: then you have to guard it. How stupid is that?
Speaker 1: But I always understood why he doesn't like gold and
Speaker 1: Big Win for that matter, because it doesn't do anything,
Speaker 1: doesn't make anything. Um. He always wants to buy companies
Speaker 1: that produce things like co Cohler sees candy. Um, So
Speaker 1: buying a gold miner actually makes sense to me because
Speaker 1: it's not buying gold, it's buying a company that produces things.
Speaker 1: Did you see the same thing? Absolutely absolutely correct. And
Speaker 1: his an argument about gold not doing anything and being
Speaker 1: a pet rock, it's ridiculous if he had if he
Speaker 1: had a hundred million dollars in hundred dollar bills, they
Speaker 1: just sit there and they don't produce anything. It's because
Speaker 1: their money they're used for preserving wealth and trading. So
Speaker 1: it's intellectually dishonest on his part to uh to make
Speaker 1: those arguments. But he has a genius. He's very smart,
Speaker 1: and uh, he can see that gold mining companies are
Speaker 1: going to be making a mint in the years come.
Speaker 1: And I made the same point that you did to one.
Speaker 1: I said that, you know Buffett, his strategy is like
Speaker 1: buying hold forever, like he's on Coca Cola for whatever,
Speaker 1: fifty years. Like when he goes in, like he buys
Speaker 1: it so like he's not looking to like flip gold
Speaker 1: in a month, like he's going in for he sees
Speaker 1: like a long term tell wind here he must write
Speaker 1: one and to um, he he kind of leads like,
Speaker 1: as you just mentioned, right, the institutions aren't buying yet,
Speaker 1: and like now that he's buying it is probably gonna
Speaker 1: open up the floodgates for all these people. Would you
Speaker 1: agree with that? That's exactly the way I see it.
Speaker 1: And so as of as of his last report, he's
Speaker 1: got twenty million shares of Barrack, which is the second
Speaker 1: largest gold miner in the world. New Mount is the largest.
Speaker 1: But the money is going to start flowing into secondary
Speaker 1: producers are smaller. But the reason why, uh, the reason
Speaker 1: why I own a lot of gold mining ink and
Speaker 1: I know we've been talking about it because, uh well
Speaker 1: I like to talk my book and it's one of
Speaker 1: my largest positions. Okay, So I'm telling you why I
Speaker 1: own it. It's because they've got twenty five million ounces
Speaker 1: of resources that were he turned into reserves and big
Speaker 1: mining companies which have not been exploring over the last
Speaker 1: ten years very much. The argument has been made that
Speaker 1: we have Pete Gold, that gold production is actually going
Speaker 1: down because all of the easy, easy to find gold
Speaker 1: people have been looking for gold for for millennia. So
Speaker 1: all the easy to find high grade gold near surface
Speaker 1: has been found. All the mining company these are going
Speaker 1: to be bidding for more resources stay in business because
Speaker 1: when Barrick or New Mount mine announced, they've got to
Speaker 1: replace it with another ounce or they're going to go
Speaker 1: out of business. It's a vanishing asset. So that's why
Speaker 1: I'm playing this company. It's got no turned expenses, it's
Speaker 1: just holding the gold and we're waiting for a major
Speaker 1: to come along and buy it for a much higher price,
Speaker 1: not just ten dollars announced in the gold in the ground.
Speaker 1: By the time this is over, they're gonna be paying
Speaker 1: well over a hundred dollars or two hundred dollars announced
Speaker 1: in the ground. Yeah, so anyone listening can do the
Speaker 1: math on on that their their price at ten dollars
Speaker 1: announced in the ground. If they get a hundred dollars
Speaker 1: anounces to manage what that does to the stock price? Now, Doug,
Speaker 1: I know we got to wrap it up. I own
Speaker 1: I own a lot of gold stocks, and there are
Speaker 1: good arguments for all of them. Otherwise I wouldn't know them.
Speaker 1: But this is one of the best arguments. Yeah. Uh yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: I know we're running short on time. We got to
Speaker 1: get off of here, but I did want to just
Speaker 1: ask you just another couple of questions. Um, you keep
Speaker 1: talking about the end game and we're at the final
Speaker 1: end game, and uh, I would agree with that. And
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Um, you know, I hear both sides the argument.
Speaker 1: I can, I can make both sides the argument, and
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you see. But one, Um, how how
Speaker 1: this ends? So right now, obviously we're seeing the debt
Speaker 1: de leveraging, so we're seeing deflation. The FED, the central
Speaker 1: banks around the world are trying to inflate back up
Speaker 1: by printing Math's amount of money. Um, who's gonna win.
Speaker 1: Is the market gonna win with deflation or is the
Speaker 1: Fed's gonna win with inflation? Um? And if so, what
Speaker 1: does that mean to gold? Yeah? Well, this argument, are
Speaker 1: we going to ultimately have catastrophic deflation or runaway inflation?
Speaker 1: These argument has been going on for fifty years and
Speaker 1: I followed it through that time. Uh. The answer is,
Speaker 1: you can't be sure which is going to win because
Speaker 1: with all the debt in the world, Uh, it could
Speaker 1: be defaulted on. And if a billion dollar bond is
Speaker 1: defaulted on, what happens to the billion dollars if somebody
Speaker 1: thought was their asset, it dies and goes to money.
Speaker 1: Having I have billion dollars disappears as deflationary. But at
Speaker 1: this point, Uh, these central banks have the world's economies
Speaker 1: in a stranglehold, and they've said, and I believe them,
Speaker 1: that they'll print up as much money as necessary to
Speaker 1: keep the ball rolling, to keep the house of cards
Speaker 1: propped up. So I'm betting on much higher levels of inflation.
Speaker 1: But what I'm really betting on more than inflation or
Speaker 1: deflation per se, is chaos. We're gonna have actual financial chaos,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be scary. Yeah, and and uh I
Speaker 1: I write a newsletter is called the four Pillar Blueprint,
Speaker 1: and one of the four pillars is chaos chaos hedge insurance,
Speaker 1: which is precious metals of course, so exactly what you're
Speaker 1: talking about, the chaos, uh and and and we that's
Speaker 1: that's not even like speculative, Like we're seeing massive chaos
Speaker 1: right now. It's pretty easy to see how that's just
Speaker 1: going to continue to grow. We're just we're just in
Speaker 1: the first We're just in the first inning of the
Speaker 1: ball game right now. Oh that's a scary thought, I
Speaker 1: know it is. That's why you're in Uruguay. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I've got a thousand acre farm here with a
Speaker 1: mild river front near the ocean, surrounded by cattle and horses. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I feel pretty good about this. But you know,
Speaker 1: you can run, but you can't hide this is this
Speaker 1: is gonna be a worldwide problem. Yeah. And you know,
Speaker 1: I've always thought I could run, and if anything, this
Speaker 1: pandemic has shown me that, no, there is not going
Speaker 1: to be anywhere to run to now. The whole world
Speaker 1: is way too connected now, so um, we have to
Speaker 1: just my my philosophy is we just have to learn
Speaker 1: as much as we can so we can build up
Speaker 1: enough resources so we at least have options. Right, you'll
Speaker 1: have to You'll have to send me a copy of
Speaker 1: your Loser, and i'd like to like to say it, Mark,
Speaker 1: I sure will. Well, Doug Um, I know we're out
Speaker 1: of time, and I think we went a bit long.
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate you giving me your time. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I've been, uh, I've been a huge fan.
Speaker 1: I've been following you for over a dozen years. You've
Speaker 1: barely been instrumental in my own philosophy, building it out
Speaker 1: the way that I see the world, and and so forth.
Speaker 1: So again, thanks so much for taking the time. I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. It's just all been mine, all right. Thanks
Speaker 1: do all right? Thanks Dog all right, Thanks Dog all right.