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Speaker 1: The Cricket Store just lasted a bunch of new merchant

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Speaker 1: inspired by your favorite Crookeet media podcasts, reminding you to unplug, reconnect,

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Speaker 1: and get festive. Some of the new items include a

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Speaker 1: Nog Save America mug. You listen to pod Save America,

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Speaker 1: you volunteer through Vote Save America. But maybe what you

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Speaker 1: a burning smartphone on it. A true classic Christmas scene

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Speaker 1: where the only screen in sight is being burnt to

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Speaker 1: a crisp Treason's greetings, crew neck, tis the season for

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Speaker 1: some Treason. Follow La La La La straight from the

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Speaker 1: top secret documents at mar Lago to the ski slopes

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Speaker 1: of this fantasy world holiday design. Every order from the

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Speaker 1: Crookeet Store will support vod Save America's Every Last Vote

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Speaker 1: fund to make sure every voice can be heard in

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Speaker 1: the face of unprecedented voter suppression. Head to Crooked dot

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Speaker 1: com slash store to check out the new arrivals now. Warning,

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Speaker 1: this podcast contains spoiler for and or including episodes ten

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Speaker 1: and eleven. Hello, My name is Jason Concepcion, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to X ray Vision, the Cricket Podcast, where we dive

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Speaker 1: deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, in the previously on, we'll be commemorating

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Speaker 1: the life and work of Kevin Conroy, the iconic voice

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Speaker 1: of Batman and Bruce Wayne for millions of fans around

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Speaker 1: the globe. We will be revisiting Black Panther Waconda Forever

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Speaker 1: after its opening week, talking about the reaction to the

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Speaker 1: film now a week out, and just the general topic

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Speaker 1: of Marvel fatigue. Is it happening? What is it? What's

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Speaker 1: going on? Care In the airlock, we're back in space

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Speaker 1: for and Or episodes ten and eleven and in a

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Speaker 1: hive mind. We are absolutely delighted to welcome and Or creator, screenwriter, director,

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Speaker 1: showrunner extraordinary Tony Gilroyd to the program. Of course, if

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Speaker 1: you want to jump around, check the show notes for

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Speaker 1: the time stamps. In joining me today, you know it

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Speaker 1: is the number one Godzilla writer working in ink and

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Speaker 1: pages today in the digital and paper medium, the number

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Speaker 1: one comics historian, the number one knower of things that

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Speaker 1: are related to horror movies, it's Rosie night Hella.

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Speaker 2: It's me.

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Speaker 1: Rosie. How are you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 3: I'm sad about you know, Kevin, but I'm happy with you.

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Speaker 2: We have to pay homage.

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Speaker 3: There is amazing impact, and I mean, I'm happy to

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Speaker 3: be someone my ander again because this is as everybody knows.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is some of the best Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing.

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Speaker 3: I ever put to TV, screen book, comic book like

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Speaker 3: this stuff is.

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Speaker 2: It's up there.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really excited and I'll chat with Tony is

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Speaker 3: good stuff.

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Speaker 1: What a guy. Okay, let's let's get into it.

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Speaker 4: First.

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Speaker 1: Up on the previously on the discussion of the impact

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Speaker 1: of Kevin Conray. So, Kevin Conroy passed away on November

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Speaker 1: tenth due to an ongoing illness intestinal cancer. Reportedly and

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Speaker 1: quite simply, he is Batman for millions of people, for

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Speaker 1: four hundred plus episodes of television, including his you know,

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Speaker 1: legendary run on Batman, the animated series. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: really overstate the impact he had. Yeah, because you're talking

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Speaker 1: about a time when so the Batman movies were coming

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Speaker 1: out obviously still at this time.

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Speaker 3: But.

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Speaker 1: They had these the animated series felt connect to the

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Speaker 1: quote unquote spirit of Batman. Yeah, the character in a

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Speaker 1: way that was unique. And it's just impossible to even

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Speaker 1: see a still from Batman the Animated series and not

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Speaker 1: hear that deep like baritone voice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so often over the years, especially you know,

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Speaker 3: many years ago, pre MCU and Superior movies were like

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Speaker 3: back at the top of the game. Again, like most

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Speaker 3: people of a certain age, if you ask them who

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Speaker 3: the best Batman was, or who their Batman was, they

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Speaker 3: would say Kevin Conroy.

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Speaker 2: The animated series was.

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Speaker 3: This all encompassing iconic thing that so many of us experienced,

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Speaker 3: and that for many of us was the most regular

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Speaker 3: Batman that we got. It was on TV, it was

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Speaker 3: easy to follow, you could watch it. Also, it was

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Speaker 3: you know, came out around the time of Batman Returns.

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Speaker 3: It had a Danny Elfman score. It felt like it

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Speaker 3: was connected to the movies, but it also felt like

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Speaker 3: it was a part to the comics. It adapted everything

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Speaker 3: from you know, the Dark Knight Returns to like the

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Speaker 3: most silly, kind of playful elements of Batman. It also

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Speaker 3: introduced Harlequin obviously and huge. Yeah, and at the heart

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Speaker 3: of it is is Kevin Conroy and that performance, and

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Speaker 3: for so long, Batman, the animated series kept Batman alive

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Speaker 3: in the hearts of DC fans and people who love

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Speaker 3: superhero movies and people who don't, people who just like

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Speaker 3: that show and love Kevin. And it's kind of like

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Speaker 3: I would say, he's comparable to you know, Mark Hamill

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Speaker 3: and carry They really they kept Star Wars alive for

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Speaker 3: a long time when the movies weren't coming out by

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Speaker 3: doing cons and being present and having cameos and connecting

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Speaker 3: with fans and keeping that conversation going and that love going.

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Speaker 2: And Kevin was like that.

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Speaker 3: And recently he'd actually written a comic in the DC

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Speaker 3: Pride anthology that we talked about with Danny Fernandez called

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Speaker 3: Finding Batman, which is about how growing up as a

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Speaker 3: gay teenager was incredibly hard and how his journey to

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Speaker 3: Batman and becoming Batman reflects that part of his life.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely amazing.

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Speaker 3: DC actually put it up for free for people to read,

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Speaker 3: so you can read it right now, and it's just, yeah,

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Speaker 3: what an unbelievable loss. And I'm just really one of

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Speaker 3: the things I think is really special is Kevin actually

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Speaker 3: got to play a future version of Batman in the

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Speaker 3: live action c dow stuff recently. So I love that

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Speaker 3: we got to see that Batman become you know, that

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Speaker 3: the Kevin's face Batman rather than.

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Speaker 2: Just his his incredible voice.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, never been a better time to go back

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Speaker 3: and watch Batman made series, which is such a joy

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Speaker 3: and still just one of the best TV shows ever made.

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Speaker 1: Connor Goldsmith, who hosts the Unbelievable cerebro Cast, one of

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Speaker 1: the one of the most indelible, unique and fun podcasts

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Speaker 1: about comics, specifically the X Men that is out there.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely vibrant with a really fun community, tweeted the

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Speaker 1: other day, It's been lovely to see the whole comics

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Speaker 1: internet coming together to celebrate Kevin Conroy. Apart from his

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Speaker 1: unrivaled work as a voice actor, which will be immortal,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sad that in such an important gale there

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Speaker 1: is gone. He lived through so much and achieved so much.

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Speaker 1: I'm grateful it was such an important part of his story.

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Speaker 1: On Kevin Conray, you will be missed, all right. We're

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Speaker 1: a week plus away from Black Panther Wakanda Forever and

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Speaker 1: I've been interested to see the just to take in

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Speaker 1: the reaction and specifically the reaction. You know, I did this.

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Speaker 1: I did a guest spot on on the Recode podcast

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Speaker 1: with Peter Kofka for Vox, and he was asking me

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Speaker 1: about Marvel fatigue, and I wanted to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about it, Rosie, because he was like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about Marvel fatigue? Some people are

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Speaker 1: tired of it or they're waiting for people to be

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Speaker 1: tired of it. What do you think is going on?

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Speaker 1: And it's been interesting that it's you know, as phase

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Speaker 1: four is kicked off, it has been really it's been

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Speaker 1: a huge topic and I think there's various reasons for that.

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Speaker 1: And first of all, with regards to Marvel fatigue, it

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Speaker 1: will happen. If it's not happening now, people will get

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Speaker 1: people like, you know, everything that is popular will at

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Speaker 1: some point become less popular and stop happening. There's no

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Speaker 1: there's no reason to imagine that the Marvel movies will

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Speaker 1: remain the top box office breaking movies in the world

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Speaker 1: for the rest of our lives. Like they will fall

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Speaker 1: off at some point. But I think what's interesting to

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Speaker 1: me is, you know, having come from a writing background,

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Speaker 1: is somewhat of a criticism background is I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of what's happening is as Marvel was going on

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Speaker 1: its run all the way up through Endgame. I think

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Speaker 1: that there were a lot of critics and people who

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Speaker 1: like movies generally, just fan of movies generally, who thought,

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Speaker 1: oh shit, is this what movies are going to be now?

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Speaker 1: And and we're not particularly maybe they like two or

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Speaker 1: three of the MCU movies, but we're not particularly fans

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Speaker 1: of the movies, which is absolutely fine. Like what you

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Speaker 1: like and like what you don't like. But I but

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Speaker 1: if I can, I can also understand if I was

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Speaker 1: a critic who didn't like Marvel movies, I would be like, shit,

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Speaker 1: am I out of a job? If I tell? And

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Speaker 1: I think now that Phase four has come out and it,

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Speaker 1: you know, didn't have the kind of drive, narrative drive.

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Speaker 1: I think that the Marvel the somewhat disparate you know,

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Speaker 1: we're telling different stories about hidden societies, and there's no

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Speaker 1: there has been no central big bed to kind of

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Speaker 1: shoot for over the course of the face. I think

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Speaker 1: that I think that a lot of this is people

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Speaker 1: just feeling more comfortable now to say, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I don't like Marvel movies. We're in the past. It

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Speaker 1: would have been like you'd get you'd potentially get an

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Speaker 1: email from your editor like too bad.

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Speaker 2: Sorry. No, I'm just.

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Speaker 3: Saying I'm not confirming or denying if that's the case,

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Speaker 3: but I will say it sounds familiar.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that I think that is realistic. And I

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Speaker 2: think there's two big things here right.

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Speaker 3: One is that as comic book fans, as people who

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Speaker 3: lived through the nineties boom when comic books were everywhere,

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Speaker 3: we've actually seen this before, the idea of fatigue on

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Speaker 3: comics or comics being the biggest thing in the world

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Speaker 3: and they're everywhere, and they're talking about death of Superman

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Speaker 3: on the news, and there's five hundred.

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Speaker 2: People queuing up outside a shop to meet Rob Leifeld.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've lived through that. We've already lived through.

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Speaker 3: Oh, this thing we love is now the most important

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Speaker 3: thing in the world in the early two thousands to

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Speaker 3: a certain extent, Spider Man, X men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we know that.

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Speaker 2: These things are cyclical.

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Speaker 3: If people are tired of Marvel, that's, like you said,

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Speaker 3: it's to be expected. And I think the other thing

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Speaker 3: that you can't kind of count out about the way

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Speaker 3: that the conversation is going, especially on a critical lens,

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Speaker 3: because you know, people have to watch all these things

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Speaker 3: multiple movies in a year.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of Disney critical texture.

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Speaker 3: I think that Disney Plus has been so influential for

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Speaker 3: both better and worse.

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Speaker 2: We love it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, one division to me unbelievable, Like Jonathan Major's King,

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Speaker 3: these are things, These are stories I never thought I

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Speaker 3: would get to see. And if we weren't living in

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Speaker 3: an age where you know, I'll put it in brackets

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Speaker 3: content because I don't really like calling this stuff that,

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Speaker 3: but like content is king, you know, we probably wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be getting a story based on a weird Scarlet Witch

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Speaker 3: and Vision mini series, or we wouldn't be venturing into

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Speaker 3: the world of Kang if we hadn't already spent ten

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Speaker 3: years digging into some of the weirder parts of Marvel.

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Speaker 3: But it, to me is very understandable that certain people might.

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Speaker 2: Be overwhelmed or tiring and even.

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Speaker 3: Quicker because of the fact that there are so many

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Speaker 3: of these things to take note of. There are multiple

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Speaker 3: weekly shows, and if you add Star Wars into it,

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Speaker 3: then you're getting and then you add all the other

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Speaker 3: things Disney and Pixar, you know, there's multiple different versions.

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Speaker 3: I will personally say the thing I think that is

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Speaker 3: positive about this for people who don't like it or

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Speaker 3: who do like it, Phase four, to me, is about

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Speaker 3: a certain level of choice.

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Speaker 1: There's absolutely agree with you for all different.

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Speaker 2: Kinds of people.

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Speaker 3: Now, look we I always I love indie movies, I

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Speaker 3: love World Cinema, I love horror, I love b movies,

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Speaker 3: I love Fantasia Fest.

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Speaker 2: I always want to see more kinds of movies.

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Speaker 3: So I understand that celebrating Disney for a certain amount

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Speaker 3: of variety is like cheering on a monopoly. But I

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Speaker 3: will say I think Phase four is actually positive, that

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Speaker 3: it's not this huge cultural beer moth that is everyone

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Speaker 3: has to like every movie. I actually think it's great

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Speaker 3: that you can like Love Eternals and not like Doctor Strange.

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Speaker 3: I like both of them just for flabibitation. I really

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Speaker 3: like Doctor Strange. But I think the fact that there's

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Speaker 3: more of this stuff and people can have varying degrees

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Speaker 3: of conversation. Also, I am very much a person who says,

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Speaker 3: if you don't like it, just that's fine, Like you

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Speaker 3: can actually just not like it, and there's been a

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Speaker 3: lot of voices who, like you said, are feeling more comfortable.

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Speaker 3: Does that relate to how people actually feel about Marvel movies.

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think so. I mean, just to compare

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Speaker 3: numbers in the opening weekend of Black Panther were kind

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Speaker 3: of forever arguably probably the most anticipated movie of the

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Speaker 3: year on a pop culture level.

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Speaker 1: Sure agreed, that made one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred and eighty million domestic three hundred and thirty million

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Speaker 3: worldwide in about three.

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Speaker 2: Or four days.

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Speaker 3: That is almost dollar for a dollar, the same amount

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Speaker 3: that Black Adam made in like almost a month.

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Speaker 2: So it's there's a there might be a critical fatigue.

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Speaker 3: I know that there's definitely general TV watchers who aren't

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Speaker 3: keeping up with every Marvel show, But I don't necessarily

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Speaker 3: know that Marvel fatigue means anything kind of dire for

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Speaker 3: the future of the ties.

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Speaker 1: I mean, which is interesting, which is why I want

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Speaker 1: to raise it, because whenever the question is asked, or

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Speaker 1: whenever I'm asked that, or whenever I hear that conversation,

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Speaker 1: it's always framed as it's you know, almost like when

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Speaker 1: is this is this over?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: Is this whole thing over? And I and I think

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Speaker 1: that we've gotten to a point where to pick up

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Speaker 1: on something you're talking about, whether Disney intended this or not.

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Speaker 1: We've hit a point now with the movies, with the

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Speaker 1: Disney plus offerings where it's kind of like, Okay, what

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Speaker 1: kind of marvel do you like? Do you like spy ship?

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Speaker 1: Do you like shit?

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Speaker 2: Do you like do you like shit?

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Speaker 1: You like shit?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Do you want funny stuff? Do you want?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And it's so listen, I'm sure that Disney wants you

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Speaker 1: to watch every single It's like looking movie we are watching.

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Speaker 1: We we are those people like we are you know,

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Speaker 1: we're in the tank for it, you know, because this

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Speaker 1: is what we have loved. But I think we've also

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Speaker 1: reached a point where this popularity may wax and wane.

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Speaker 1: But as a as a proposition, these movies and shows

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Speaker 1: aren't really gonna go anywhere. Like the budgets may go

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Speaker 1: up and budgets may go up and down. They may

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Speaker 1: release less movies per year, they may release less shows

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Speaker 1: per year, which I think and more and more yeah,

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Speaker 1: or they make more animated whatever it is. But this

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Speaker 1: stuff is here, like all this this genre is here now,

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, not going anywhere for the foreseeable future,

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Speaker 1: although you know, the density and the cadence of them

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Speaker 1: may change.

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Speaker 3: And also like this is something that I've talked about

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Speaker 3: with you guys, But like these patterns have been seen before, right,

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Speaker 3: Like the X Men movies X one x two. People

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Speaker 3: love those, Sam raym Spider Man one and two, they

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Speaker 3: loved them. Then you had like Tim Stories Fantastic Four,

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Speaker 3: which I think are very fun, even though they disrespected Galactus.

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Speaker 3: So I've never forgiven that in the second one. But

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Speaker 3: like I feel like movies like Morbius, like there's always

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Speaker 3: gonna be a dilution of quality when something becomes so saturated.

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Speaker 3: So that's gonna happen. And the real truth is that

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Speaker 3: until a new movie comes out that has almost one

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Speaker 3: hundred years of source material for people to be like,

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Speaker 3: oh I can make one of those two, these movies

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Speaker 3: are going to keep being here.

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Speaker 2: It's like, whenever I try and think about it, like

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Speaker 2: you know, action.

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Speaker 3: Movies, the trends, the blockbusters, the things that have happened before,

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Speaker 3: it's hard to predict what that kind of zeitgeist shifting.

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Speaker 1: It's unpredictable. It's it's this is when I was working

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Speaker 1: at the Ringer Reader in binge mode, and Game of

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Speaker 1: Thrones was coming to an end, Like a major part

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Speaker 1: of the conversation was monoculture and is this the end

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Speaker 1: of monoculture with the end of Game of Thrones? Will

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Speaker 1: there ever be anything that captures the imagination like this?

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Speaker 1: And similar to end, you know, endgame was coming on

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Speaker 1: the heels of the end of Game of Thrones, So

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Speaker 1: it was like this feeling of oh have we have

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Speaker 1: we exited the era of this huge, you know, piece

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Speaker 1: of cultural content that everybody takes part in, and no

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Speaker 1: one again, as you said, no one can predict what

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Speaker 1: that thing is going to be. But if there's one

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Speaker 1: thing I'm sure of is that there will be another

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Speaker 1: thing like that again and again and again. Because we

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Speaker 1: create people, human beings crave it. We crave this massive

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Speaker 1: story that we can all talk about with our friends

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Speaker 1: or argue about and say, did you notice this? I

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Speaker 1: noticed this. The whole world is based on stories.

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Speaker 2: Culture.

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Speaker 3: Human culture has been based on stories, from the traditions

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Speaker 3: of oral storytelling to religious texts to you know, comic

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Speaker 3: books like I always remember I went to this unbelievable

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Speaker 3: is one of the best days of my life. Still

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Speaker 3: it was like a Mike carry how to make comics

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Speaker 3: like Little Class and it was so cool and I

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Speaker 3: love the stuff.

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Speaker 2: I yet with Apocalypse, so I'm super into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he said, you know, if somebody just found

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Speaker 3: like an entire run of the X Men comics in

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Speaker 3: five hundred years, they would probably think that was like

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Speaker 3: our Odyssey or some kind of real folk law that's shaped.

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Speaker 3: That is fifty thousand plus issues. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 3: decades of human storytelling. It's analogous, it's not real, but

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Speaker 3: stories really matter. And whether it's comic book stories, whether

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Speaker 3: it's adaptations of Michael Crichton books like Jurassic Park, whether

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Speaker 3: it's biographical films, whatever, that next thing is going to

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Speaker 3: be that kind of blows up the world.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be about stories.

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Speaker 3: And like you said, we're always going to find something else,

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Speaker 3: especially with the Internet, because that allows us to connect

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Speaker 3: over these things in a way that was never possible

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Speaker 3: for and that's part of why we want the commune

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Speaker 3: or storytelling, the water cooler moments of Game of Fans.

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Speaker 1: Okay, up next, we return to a galaxy far far

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00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:55,159
Speaker 1: away to discuss and or episodes ten and eleven X

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Speaker 1: ray Vision has brought to you, Ay, Doomlings, The world

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Speaker 1: game for the end of the world.

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Speaker 5: Somewhere on a doomed and distant planet, life has emerged,

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Speaker 5: competing for dominance.

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Speaker 1: Until the world's inervitable structure.

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Speaker 5: Score points by playing traits for your doomling species, making

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Speaker 1: Of the world. Doomalings is a card game for two

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Speaker 1: apart from other card games because it's like a hybrid

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Speaker 1: game for tabletop enthusiasts and non gamers alike. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean. It means it's easy to get into and

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Speaker 1: easy to play. It's accessible, there's a lot of gameplay

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Speaker 1: depth and replayability. It's not like other card games that

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Speaker 1: This is because of doom links randomized setup and also

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are one hundred and sixty seven

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438
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439
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440
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441
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,159
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442
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: out for fifteen percent off. Thank you to z Biotics

443
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 1: for sponsoring this episode. Glug Glug, Glug, Glug glug. Can

444
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: you swim? Can you swim?

445
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 3: Rosie? I can swim, but I am very scared of

446
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 3: large swaths of water, So I was really having a

447
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: lot of empathy, uh for.

448
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: Our good friend Keino Lloyd. Well, we are stepping off

449
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: of the balcony in the prison, the industrial prison of

450
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: Nartina five, into the water, and we're swimming away to

451
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: talk about and Or episodes ten and eleven.

452
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: Uh.

453
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: Episode ten titled One Way Out written by bo Willhelmon

454
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: and directed by Toby Haynes, and episode eleven Daughter of

455
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: Ferris written by Tony Gilroy and directed by Benjamin Karen.

456
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: We start with and Or ten. Wow Wulf's body is

457
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: wheeled out of the facility after he has been euthanized

458
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: by the medical tech there. Cassian tells, you know that, listen,

459
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: we got to make our move now. They can't wait.

460
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: They you know, they there, We're not leaving here. You

461
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: can see that now, can't you. And Cassian tells them

462
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: like they don't have enough guards to watch us. They

463
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: know it. They're scared of us. We need to act.

464
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: When they bring a new person down to replace Ulaf,

465
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: that's when we have to move. Cassian and Keina returned

466
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: to the barracks. They tell the men that they what

467
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: they know. There's been a massacre on two. Then Ulaf

468
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: was euthanized, and the bottom line is, we're not leaving

469
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: this place. It doesn't matter what your sentence says, doesn't

470
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: matter how many shifts you have left. You're gonna die here, yeah,

471
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: or some other place that's exactly like this.

472
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's a there's a great moment where Cassian

473
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: says it and they kind of they go oh, and

474
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: they try and explain it away. But then Keino realizes

475
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: in that moment that he has to be the one

476
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: to tell them, and he's.

477
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: Like, it's true, Like nobody's getting out.

478
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: And that's their boss, that's the man who's steered them

479
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 2: through and so.

480
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: They know in that moment, what a fucking great Andy

481
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: serkis you just did?

482
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: And I love and I wish I hope that this.

483
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: I hope this will get him.

484
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 3: I hope that this will get him more non CG roles,

485
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: because I feel like he's he's selling it in this.

486
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: He's just like absolutely delivering at every level. But yeah,

487
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: I think he's my secret talent.

488
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 3: He was.

489
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: He's a legitimately mesmerizing actor on screen. You know obviously,

490
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: you know, you know, connected to his CG work, his

491
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: MO cap work, but like a great actor, and he's

492
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: he's mesmerizing in this.

493
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

494
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: At back at ib Boo, Deirdre has been tracking Anton Kreeger,

495
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: this rebel leader, uh and he's they're waiting for him

496
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: to take this bait that they've laid out there, and

497
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: he's taken the bait. So the ISB is on the

498
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: on the track right of the Anton Kreeker they're watching him.

499
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: Next morning, Keino Loy gets the men ready for what

500
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: they're going to have to face that day. They go

501
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: through the motions as if it's a normal shift and

502
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: they're just waiting for the moment that the guards bringing

503
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: the lift's replacement. Down on Corssant, Mathma and Tay meet

504
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: the gangster Davos. He he's there to hear what it

505
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: is that mathmaonte need. Basically, they need money. Wondering, Davos

506
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: sees through this kind of like cover story that they're

507
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: spinning about a charitable organization that just needs, you know, liquidity.

508
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: They need an injection of cash to carry on with

509
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: their charitable works. He sees through this. He says, listen,

510
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: I'll do I'll loan you some four hundred thousand credits,

511
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: but I don't want anything in return. You just owe me.

512
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it, like you know some kind of

513
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: schedule to pay back. You just will owe me a favor.

514
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: And was like, no, no, no, no, no no no,

515
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to owe a gangster a favor. No,

516
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: Like we'll just work something out like monetarily. And Dallas

517
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: is like, no, well, instead of that, what about this

518
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: introduce my son to your daughter? He wants to. He

519
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: wants to set up a love match. He says, two

520
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: young people, attractive and privileged Chandrilline citizens. Mathma is aghast,

521
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: but Davas is like, take it or leave it. Mathma

522
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: declines Claya, Luthan's assistant at the shop on Coussant, brings

523
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: news that there are marks on a fountain out in

524
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: the town, which is like a sign that there's a

525
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: meaning to be set up, but she doesn't like the

526
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: timing of this could be a trap. Back on Narcina five,

527
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: the guards bring the new man down, Cassian and the

528
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: rest of the prisoners spring into action, and long story short,

529
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: everybody fucking gets out. It is false pounding, you know.

530
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: Keno gives this incredible speech. He gets the men all

531
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: chanting one way out.

532
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: He has this moment again, it's this thing of they

533
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 3: get to the control room, he takes over the speaker

534
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: and Cassian's like, it has to be you and just

535
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: coach him.

536
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: He's like, you've been doing this, You've been for five

537
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: hundred shifts, two thousand shifts.

538
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: You've been the one whose voice has sparked them into action,

539
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: and you have to do it now. And they turn

540
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: off all the power and it is just it's a

541
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: prison breakout. They get blasters, they are taken down and

542
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: guess what, Cassian was right. They did not have enough guards.

543
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: This is running on a very i'll say tight ship

544
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: but cheap. The empire is cheap, and they've been using

545
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: the flaws and the electrocution to not have to put

546
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: money into actually starffing this prison.

547
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: When Cassian is laying that all out to Keino, he

548
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: he says, and I think it's a fascinating thing to

549
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: think about, how how brutality is actually an indicator of

550
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: fear and weakness. He says. Listen, if they had enough,

551
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: if they weren't scared of us, why why wouldn't they

552
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: just you know, keep everybody alive there. They are terrified.

553
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: That's why they wiped out the entire floor of two

554
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: because they're scared and they know that they can't handle

555
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: us if we all rise up. And then there's this

556
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: It's a small moment, but it was so powerful when

557
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: you're seeing these prisoners, you know, fighting their way to

558
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: the top of the facility, rampaging through it and killing

559
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: guards and you know, moving to the top taking their revenge.

560
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: There is a small scene of these guards like cowering

561
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: in like a closet somewhere, just terrified, and it was

562
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: it really kind of closed the loop on that thing

563
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: that Cassian was saying up front, which was they're scared

564
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: of us. Yes they're brutal, but it's their brutal methods

565
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: that let you know that they're scared.

566
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

567
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I want to say as well, this is

568
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 3: like another We talked about this a lot when we

569
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: were talking about this arc on Naquina five, but like,

570
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 3: this is a show where Tony Gilroy has put you

571
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: in the position of empathizing with prisoners, prisoners who were

572
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: doing labor like prisoners do every day in this country,

573
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: and he is then getting you to support them when

574
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: they riot against their conditions and against the fact in

575
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: an unjust system. He is saying, you agree with this,

576
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: You there is no question that what you are watching

577
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: is right. And I just think that's so powerful in

578
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 3: the context the conversations that we have about the prison

579
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: industrial complex, and it was this is a very special

580
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: episode out of all of the and not in like.

581
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: That Don't do Drugs kind of espials.

582
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: I love those two, but like, I mean, it's it

583
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: is after all the build up of this, in particular

584
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: the last two the previous two episodes, you know, uh,

585
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: post al Donnie Cassian's arrest on the vacation World of

586
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Namos and kind of like you know, the the trumped

587
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: up charges by which he is arrested. This is such

588
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: a cathartic episode because you're absolutely right. It's it's it's

589
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: put you in their shoes to such a degree that

590
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: you understand that this is right, and we.

591
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: Know that right right, there's no question this is what

592
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: they need to do.

593
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: This is an unjust system that has imprisoned them so

594
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: their bodies can be exploited for labor, and they're never

595
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: gonna leave if they don't do this. It's it's heartbreaking

596
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: and amazing. And Andy Serkis gives this unbelievable performance as

597
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 3: this kind of reluctant leader turned man who knows that

598
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: this is like the one good thing. He has been

599
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: complicit in this system for so long, absolutely and he

600
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: knows this is one thing he can do. It's it's

601
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: not a true complicity because he didn't have a choice,

602
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: but in his role as being the floor manager, every

603
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: day one of his crews was getting electrocuted.

604
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: You know, he played the game in line exactly.

605
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: People will play the game for a long time until

606
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: it's revealed that actually there's no and to the game.

607
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that even the rules that are laid

608
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: out for you or fake. The men fight their way

609
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: to the top and they find themselves, you know, high

610
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: above a body of water, and men are hurling themselves

611
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: off into the water. They're swimming away, the screaming one

612
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: way out, yeah, one way out, and Cassie in terms

613
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: of Keno, let's go, let's jump, and Keno's just like

614
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't swim. And it is a heartbreaking moment.

615
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: Now we don't know what happens. We don't, but I

616
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: think we're led to believe, and certainly because of episode eleven,

617
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: we're led to believe that keno does not mean yeah

618
00:34:59,120 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: and something.

619
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: Really important and like if you're someone who loved when

620
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: we used to do really deep dive easter egg kind

621
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 3: of breakdowns into stuff. Episode ten is the first episode

622
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 3: where we get some little things that are a little

623
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 3: bit more than like visual nods. So something very interesting

624
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: here is that when they show the prison and out

625
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 3: of each of the bays where the ships would dock,

626
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 3: people are throwing themselves out and swimming away. It's this

627
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: it's the shape of an Imperial logo as we know

628
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: them now, you know. So there's these little touches that

629
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 3: are yeah, just unbelievable, and it's kind of this really

630
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: interesting visual way of showing these people freeing themselves from

631
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 3: the grips of the empire, like and the imperial this

632
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: imperial prison on Narqina five.

633
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: So for irp Qino, you are a real one.

634
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a there's a there's a quick

635
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: moment in Luthen's shop. I was gonna say, where you

636
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: see Padme's head piece. Yeah, her head dress, their ceremonial

637
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: headdress that she wears. That's the first like prequels technical

638
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: like easter egg that we that we have and it's

639
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: an easter egg, but it's like it is emblematic of

640
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: how ruthless the world and this system is. Now here

641
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: is something that is a hallmark of you know, the

642
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: culture of Naboo and of a beloved leader of that

643
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: of that place, and her regalia is just like up

644
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: for sale even ye can just go buy it. Yeah no,

645
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: not even forget even in a museum people. This is yeah,

646
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: this is just for private collectors, for rich people. It

647
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: is just up for the highest bid or if you

648
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: want to just walk into Luthen's and buy it. It

649
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: is It's a heartbreaking display of what has happened to

650
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: a lot of the galaxy. Luthen goes to this meeting.

651
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: It's in some industrial kind of like area, of course

652
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: far away and uh Luthen's contact is Lonnie, one of

653
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: the ISB investigators that has been working closely with Deirdre.

654
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: He has been apparently steadily burrowing into the ISB at

655
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: Luthen's behest, steadily, you know, providing information to Luthen, who

656
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: in turn has been we are guessing holding the man's

657
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: family hostage somehow or at least threatening.

658
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 3: I don't know knowledge he knows a lot about this

659
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 3: man's family, and there is a lot of implied threats, yes,

660
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: in what he is saying to to Lonnie.

661
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: And it's unclear. It doesn't seem like Lutheren thinks Lonnie

662
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: is a particularly good person.

663
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: So it's uncare if this is he's just a valuable

664
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: he's a valuable asset.

665
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 3: I don't think this is a rebel who did a

666
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: great job at weaseling his way in. I think this

667
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 3: is an ISB agent that Lutheran is exploiting. And yes,

668
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 3: he's about to find out something very useful, so like

669
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: good for him.

670
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: Right, So Luthen, of course, has been you know, front

671
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: and center for Deirdre's investigation into Anton Kreeger and the

672
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: spread of imperial kind of contraband stolen by rebels across

673
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: the galaxy. He tells Luthen that okay, Uh, Deirdre is

674
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: on Kreeger, and they know that Kreeger is planning a

675
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: raid on spell House and the ISP is watching. They

676
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: want him to raid it because they're going to sweep

677
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:25,720
Speaker 1: up that entire network.

678
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 6: Uh.

679
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, so I've given you this and

680
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: I want out. That's what I'm done. It's getting too dangerous,

681
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: like let me out, and h He's like, I've sacrificed

682
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: so much for this, you know, Like, what have you sacrificed?

683
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: If you gives one of the great beach in Star

684
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: Wars ever ever, ever, he just is, what have I sacrificed?

685
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: And he then goes on a monologue about I've you know,

686
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: I've sacrificed my life. I'm sacrificing right now everything that

687
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: I have for a sun that I'm never gonna see.

688
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: He's psychology.

689
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's acknowledging that he has become a man who

690
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: would and someone's fan by Master, he has become the

691
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 3: thing that he hates, the thing he's trying to take down.

692
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: He's you know, his morals, his values, everything gone, and

693
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 3: he's basically living the worst kind of life in the

694
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 3: hope that someone in the future can have a better life.

695
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 3: And it's this is a really that line you said

696
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 3: about where it's like, you know, I sacrificed everything. I've

697
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: sacrificed hope for like a sunrise I'll never see. You know,

698
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: that's such great foreshadowing of that moment in Rogue one

699
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: at the end when Cassie and and Jin watched the

700
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: sun you know, before it looks like the sun's coming

701
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: up before everything kind of explodes. And yeah, that it's

702
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: so funny because that circus has really had two of

703
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: my favorite lines in this whole show, which is the

704
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: still my favorite is the never more than twelve about

705
00:39:58,600 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 3: the gods.

706
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, in episode ten when he says I can't swim.

707
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: That is just like heartbreaking and you think that nothing

708
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: can like outdo that performance wise, and then Stellan Skarsgd

709
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 3: just comes through at the like grimmest realist, most heartbreaking

710
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 3: speech about like the realities and toil that it takes

711
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: to make concrete change.

712
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: And also so clear eyed in understanding that the game

713
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: he is playing is so dangerous that there's no way

714
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: he lives. No's I'm not going to live through this.

715
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 2: And also it takes a long time. He's doing something

716
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: that might happen twenty years from now. He sees it

717
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 2: that things could change.

718
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: And it ties back to the smallest moment in Return

719
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: of the Jedi when mon Matha is talking about the

720
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: raid on End or what they have to do, how

721
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: they got these plans, and she says, you know, the

722
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: many Bothams died to bring us this information, and it

723
00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: was like this window into this like bottomless tragedy that

724
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: had had to take place in order to deliver this

725
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: information to the to the rebel pilots in their leaders.

726
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: And here we're getting, you know, looks like we're going

727
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: through that window and seeing the smallest piece of that story,

728
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: a version of that story where all these spies have

729
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: like laid down their lives to overturn the Empire. And

730
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: it's thrilling. It was just an it's incredible monologue. It

731
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: just is like brings you to the edge of your seat.

732
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, this episode is just such a powerhouse turn for

733
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 3: everyone involved, the writers, the directors, the cast's it's so

734
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 3: good and Diego does such a brilliant job the entire

735
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: way through. He essentially has to. He's somebody having an

736
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: awakening of what needs to be done, still not necessarily

737
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 3: for the right reasons. He just wants to get back,

738
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: see his family and get his money and escape. He

739
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: is not all in on the rebellion, but at the

740
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: same time, he hastes and he knows enough about what

741
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 3: is right and wrong to know that he didn't just

742
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 3: try and escape himself. He wanted everyone in the prison

743
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 3: to get out. He wanted everyone to be freed. He

744
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: wanted Keino to become the leader he could be. We're

745
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: seeing the awakening of this angry, furious man that we

746
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: meet in Rogue one, and it's it's very special. I

747
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: love how much this series is also setting up that,

748
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 3: remember how annoying Gin is to everyone because she's like, oh.

749
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: You need his hope.

750
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 3: All rebellions need a hope, and everyone's like, actually, no,

751
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 3: like rebellions need a lot more than that. And it's

752
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: been like really fucking hard to like make this happen.

753
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 3: And I love how much context and kind of emotional.

754
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: Hef this is bringing I'm waiting every week I watch this.

755
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 3: I want to watch Rogue again, but I'm waiting till

756
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: the finale next week.

757
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: I'm saying I feel the same exact way, and I

758
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: I too, have been holding off on watching it. So

759
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 1: that brings us to episode eleven, Daughter of Ferikh, after

760
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: their escape from the prison, Cassie and Andor and future

761
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: Sergeant Melchie, who we will see in Rogue one as

762
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: one of the one of the many soldiers that gave

763
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: their lives, and the raid on scaiff cling to the

764
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: side of a cliff, they're trying to evade Imperial patrols,

765
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: and eventually the patrol goes away and they haul themselves up.

766
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: But it just gives you a taste of the many,

767
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: many risks that they are taking and continue to take

768
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: as they flee from the prison on ur Kina FIV. Meanwhile,

769
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: on Ferres, we learned that Marva has passed, and Or's

770
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: adopted mother, tib is be kidnapper also, which we should

771
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: talk about, and we will talk about.

772
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: She died.

773
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know what, though, it is one

774
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: thing I've been thinking about in this as we've been

775
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: watching this like early days of the fight against the

776
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: Empire kind of unfold. Is the fact that what we're

777
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: kind of what you know, there's a Senate, there's a

778
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: galactic Senate, right, but that I think we also shouldn't assume,

779
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: even though we only know about the governments of a

780
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: few of these places, that it's that we're talking about democracies.

781
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: It's like it's a Senate made up of you know,

782
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: mainly like nobles, royal houses, corporate interests. Yeah, like court

783
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: planets that are completely run by corporations, like you know,

784
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: God love them, but you're talking about like a royal

785
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: lineage Like this is there's no actual democracy on a

786
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: planet to planet level, and it's one of like because

787
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: that's one of the one of the things I've been

788
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: thinking about is, other than some of the flashbacks on phericks,

789
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: you don't see protests, like mass protests against the Empire.

790
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: I know that the Empire can blow up your fucking plant,

791
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: I get it, but they're not everywhere at once, and

792
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: you just don't see this kind of like mass uprising

793
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: against the Empire. And part of you know, and I

794
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: guess I've just been like asking myself why. And I

795
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: think part of where I've come to is part of

796
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: the reason why is the governments that the Empire supplanted

797
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: were not in and of themselves the kind of governments

798
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: that you could really protest safely against.

799
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 3: Also definitely I agree, And I think that also the

800
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 3: thing that's been really interesting to see about this and

801
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 3: is very real to real world struggle is to get

802
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: to that place where you have the million people marching

803
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 3: against something kind of protest, you have to have multiple

804
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: different people all around the world, the galaxy, the country,

805
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 3: these little hubs of people who want to make where

806
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 3: they live better, who want to make things better. And

807
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: I think that and that can come together and coalesce

808
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 3: it in a moment and a movement. But I think

809
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 3: that kind of the interesting thing about Marva is like everyone,

810
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 3: I would say, like the Mottrow of pretty much about

811
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 3: every character in this show is like they're.

812
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 2: Just trying their best.

813
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 3: Like she she made a bad decision, but in the moment,

814
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: it was the decision that she thought was best, and

815
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: that Ficassian kind of ended up being a good thing.

816
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 2: Even though I do think there's more to dig into, well,

817
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: I well, I.

818
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: Bring up I bring up the democracy angle and the

819
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: lack of protest angle to say, and not in any

820
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: kind of like what aboutism way that we the Republic

821
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: was clearly imperfect. Look at Marva and you know, and

822
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: her stealing a child from from a planet because of

823
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, the depredations of some kind of corporate power

824
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: that was working under the aeges of the Republic on

825
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: this planet. But it was better than the Empire. And

826
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 1: we have yet to really dig into, other than those

827
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: early episodes of this series, exactly how fucked up the

828
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: Republic was. Like, we don't actually know exactly how fucked

829
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,439
Speaker 1: up the Republic was, and some like and as Saul

830
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: super brittor Saul is noting the the kind of uh,

831
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: the the early episodes of Tales of the Jedi in

832
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: which we see like Count Dooku and and Qui gon

833
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: Jin take down a corrupt center, we did. We we

834
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: have yet to really get a real taste.

835
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 3: Of that feels like something, It feels like something that

836
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 3: they're leaning into that they want to get to, that

837
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 3: they want to talk about. I mean, also, if we

838
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 3: look at every character in Star Wars, they've gone against

839
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 3: usually yeah, they're obviously against the Empire, the Empire is evil.

840
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 3: They are like Nazis, Like that's bad.

841
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: I mean, legitimately, they're blowing up entire planets.

842
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: The well off our heroes.

843
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 3: Will have that moment where they also everyone from amidala Qui,

844
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 3: gon jin Obi wan Luke, you know, even like raym

845
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 3: Finn Finn especially obviously as a somebody who left the stormshoopers.

846
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: But they will also have that moment where they turn

847
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 3: against the other side because they know that that's also

848
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 3: not an immediate solution, like the solution has to come

849
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 3: from the people rather than the republic or the empire

850
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 3: or imperialism.

851
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: Well, I mean the imperfect again. I think that one

852
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: of the things that and Or brings forth is that

853
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: one of the primary differences between the Empire and the

854
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: Republic is while the Republic maybe would prey on a

855
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: planet and destroy its ecosystem like a bit at a time,

856
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: the Empire will just do it all alone.

857
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: Ye.

858
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: Right, And that and while they're both and that's not

859
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: a small distinction, like that's a real that's an actually

860
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: that's like a major difference. Okay, continuing, so back on Ferix,

861
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: Marva has passed. B is absolutely fucking distraught does not

862
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: want to be left alone, wants Marva back. Is actually

863
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: kind of doesn't truly believe that Marva's passed, seems like

864
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: she's He's kind of like expecting her to walk back

865
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: in through the door. Bee watches as Marva's body is

866
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: taken away, trailed by well wishers from the community. Meanwhile,

867
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: Sinta from the Aldanni crew and members of the ISB

868
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: are also watching. They're not aware of each other, but

869
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: they're both watching, and they're all watching and waiting for

870
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: Cassian and Or to show up. Cassian and melchie back

871
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: on Narkeina spot a ship. There's a couple of aliens nearby.

872
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: They're working a fishing hole. Cassian is like, well, that's

873
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: an older quad jumper, but I think I can fly it.

874
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: Mel She's like great. He makes a run for the

875
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: ship and Cassian has no choice but to follow, but

876
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: the aliens are canny and they trigger a booby trap

877
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: which capture the pair in this like gross kind of

878
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: like snot net Deirdre at ISB he learns of Marve's death.

879
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: The local Imperials that are stationed there on Pariks are

880
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: like so the local townspeople are asking for a permit

881
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: to have a parade for a funeral, a funeral parade,

882
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: and like should be given to him, and Deirdre is like, yes,

883
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: give them the permit, because I want bait to lure

884
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 1: Cassian and or in. I know that he won't be

885
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: able to resist going to his mother's funeral, So yes,

886
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: give them the permit. Back on on Narkina, the Aliens

887
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 1: are discussing what to do with Andor and Melchi. They

888
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 1: realize that these two are escaped convicts from an imperial

889
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: prison and that they all share a hatred of the Empire,

890
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: so they let him loose and they're like, okay, where

891
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: you want to go? And Or is like, take me

892
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: back to Namos, the vacation planet. Val arrives at Lusen's shop,

893
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: vow one of the Aldanni, you know that, leader of

894
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: the al Donnie crew. So his girlfriend goes to Luthen's

895
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: shop on Coruscant and wants to talk to Luthen. Claia

896
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: is like, get the fuck out it. You shouldn't be here.

897
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: This is not on schedule, this is against the rules.

898
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: You're being very, very sloppy right now, get out of here.

899
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: And VAL's like, I got important information I need to

900
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: speak to Luthen right away, and she's trying to pull

901
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: rank like I did fucking I did, al Donnie, what

902
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: the hell have you done? And then Claya gives another

903
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: one of these like great great monologues where you know

904
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: where She's like, uh, I don't have lately, I have always.

905
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 1: I have a constant blur of plate spinning and knives

906
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: on the floor and needy, panicked faces at the window,

907
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: of which you are but one of many. And she's like,

908
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: but listen, what do you have with your information? And

909
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: then val tell's with it, Marvit Cassian, and Or's mother

910
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: has died. Tell Luthen, and Clay is like, I promise,

911
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: I will let Luthan know. Meanwhile, on Ferrex, the ISP

912
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: is tightening its surveillance of the and Or Home. Brasso,

913
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: one of bix and and Ors colleagues on Feryx, is

914
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: in the and Or home, straightening up, trying to comfort be.

915
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: The droid again doesn't is unable to like process what

916
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: is happening, has gone completely emotionally to pieces, and Brasso agrees,

917
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: I'll stay here at the and Or home with you

918
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: just for one night. This comsby a little bit elsewhere

919
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: on Ferrex, Bix is reeling from the effects of the

920
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: horrific interrogation that she was undergoing. The ISB take her

921
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: to another room where they question her again, this time,

922
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, not under the kind of like genocide the

923
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: sound treatment that they had been giving her previously, and

924
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: they want to know if they show her a picture

925
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: if Anton Creeker, this man that they're showing her is

926
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: the man that she introduced Cassie and and or to

927
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: and that he met with numerous times. Back on Coruscant,

928
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: we don't actually know if she says yes, but you

929
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: would imagine, I mean, like I would just probably.

930
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: Just say yes. Also as well, it's not so you're

931
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 2: sorry to that man actual saving.

932
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: Although you wonder, I guess the other thing that would

933
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: be going through your mind, right is if I give

934
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: them this, do they need me anything?

935
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 2: I da.

936
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: Back on Coruscant, Val arrives at Mon Masma's house. Lda.

937
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: Mon's daughter is apparently a budding young fascist, and we

938
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: see her, you know, with the rest of her like schoolmates,

939
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: doing some shit that is very troubling to Mon Mathma.

940
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: Mon shares with Val the details of the particular buying

941
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: she's in with regards to the money. Imperial inspectors are

942
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: nosing around the various Chandriline accounts that that mon has managed,

943
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: and at some point they're going to discover that there's

944
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand credits missing, that she moved, you know,

945
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: to she moved to the rebels. She tells val that,

946
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, I reached out to Tay for help, and

947
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, we've been working to cover up the monies.

948
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: She doesn't tell her tell her about Davos, which is

949
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: probably wise, and then she said, but after all, Donnie,

950
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: everything just got impossible and it's only a matter of

951
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: time before the imperials figure out what's going on.

952
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 4: Uh.

953
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: And VALA's like, does Lucan know, like how much trouble

954
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: you're in? And she's like, no, but I don't know.

955
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't think so. Mon then tells

956
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: val that she's kind of found another way out, and

957
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: she doesn't say his name, but we know that she's

958
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: because she went down to rocket.

959
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: By Fascist data coming through the door.

960
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: Cyril gets to call at his mother's house from sergent Linus,

961
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: his old buddy back to the corporation. Cyril's former colleague

962
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: tells him that Okay, Cassie Ander's mother has died, and

963
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: that the ISB and various groups on Coroissant, but probably

964
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: the ies B appear to be taken an interest in

965
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: this because a lot of calls back and forth from

966
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: Ferris to Coroissant, and it seems like ANDERI might show

967
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: up at the funeral back on Niamos and or sneaks

968
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: into his former hotel room to retrieve his credits blaster

969
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: and Keris's manifesto, which helpfully the various people who have

970
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: been staying in this room have not found because he

971
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: hit it like on a top shelf elsewhere in the galaxy.

972
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: Luthen arrives at Sawgreer's hideout and guess what, Saw has

973
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: changed his mind. Saun now wants to join Kreeger on

974
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: the Spellhouse.

975
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 2: Right.

976
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: He was against it. He was like, I don't know

977
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: this guy. Kreeger used to be a separatist back in

978
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: the fucking Clone War days. I don't want to lie

979
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: like with the guy likes up at Now He's like,

980
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: you know what, let's fucking do it. We get the booty,

981
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: we get to steal as much as we can from

982
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: this imperial facility, and as long as Kreeger, you know,

983
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: follows my rules, We're in on it. Tell him we're

984
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: doing it, and Luthen's like, no, we can't, and so

985
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, we're doing it, and he's

986
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: like Lusen's like no, no, no, it's going tomorrow, like

987
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: it's way too late, and so I was like no, no, no,

988
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: we're ready now, like we can go. If it's in

989
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: five minutes, we can go. We're locked and loaded, we're

990
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: ready to go, and eventually is forced to say, listen,

991
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: here's why the ISB are waiting on this rate. It's

992
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: a fucking trap. And he's and Saw's like wait, so

993
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: Kreeger doesn't know, and he's like no, so Sau said,

994
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: you're willing to burn him. It's thirty men plus Kreeger,

995
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: Luthern says, absolutely cold bloodedly, and this ruthless is absolutely

996
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: shocked Saw, and he says, what if it was me?

997
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: What if I was going? Luthern says, that'd be different.

998
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: Kreeger doesn't know who I am, he has no connections

999
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: to me. ISB can't track Kreeger back to me. He's

1000
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: fucking disposable. And Saw says, okay, well, what if I

1001
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: want to Warren Kreeger. What if I What if I

1002
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: do that? Luthern says, that's your choice, but it would

1003
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: risk everything else that we want to do. It would

1004
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: blow up everything. Think about it.

1005
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 4: The is B.

1006
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: If they take down Kreeger, they're gonna be arrogant. They're

1007
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: gonna be confident. There's gonna be a lot of space

1008
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: for us to operate because they're not going to know

1009
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: about us. They're going to think they have everything under control.

1010
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: If we warn Kreeger and he pulls off, they're gonna

1011
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: know that they have a leak somewhere in their information network,

1012
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: and they're gonna tighten up. They're gonna get They're gonna

1013
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: just batten down the hatches. It's gonna be very it's

1014
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,479
Speaker 1: very very difficult. Saw gets paranoid. Now he's like, okay,

1015
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: if you have you have someone with Kreeger at isb

1016
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: Do you have someone here? And he's like, you know,

1017
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: he's wondering, like, dude, do you have someone in my group?

1018
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: Who is it? And Lusan says, yeah, it's Tubes. It's

1019
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: Bensic who otherwise known as Bensic but is nickname too. Yeah,

1020
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: two Tubes and he's like he tells, He tells me everything,

1021
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: but of course this is all a ploy to get

1022
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: everybody excited so that he can then steal Tubes's blaster

1023
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: and point it at at Saw, and Saw is amazed

1024
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: and he's and it is incredible display of Luthen's resolve

1025
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: because Luthen saw it, Nos has to know that he

1026
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: can't get out of this, like, yeah, maybe you kill Saw,

1027
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: maybe you killed two Tubes, but you're not walking out

1028
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: of this place if you do that. And then is like, listen,

1029
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: this is just so you'll listen. Here's all the angles,

1030
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: and he again says all the reasons why they have

1031
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: to let Kreeger go down, and he says anyway, and

1032
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: he finishes up by saying, anyway, if I was ISB

1033
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't I just let you go on the raid saw,

1034
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: and Saw says again thirty men plus Kreeger a marching

1035
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: to their desks for the greater good whatever you want

1036
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: to call it, let's call it war, which is a

1037
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: just a chilling fucking le.

1038
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: The writing of this, we learn so much as well

1039
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 2: about Saw.

1040
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 3: This is a this is a big Sow episode because

1041
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 3: not only do we get this, but one of the

1042
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 3: aliens that and Or gets captured by is one of

1043
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 3: the Partisans who ends up being part of Source Partisans.

1044
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 2: At Sy said, OK, so you.

1045
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 3: Get a lot of we're learning not only why Saw

1046
00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 3: hates everyone and is a part and it's just like

1047
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 3: off by himself, which understandable to be honest, but also

1048
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 3: kind of who he may be taking with him. So

1049
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: it's it's very interesting to see the way that the

1050
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:15,439
Speaker 3: Empire and also people like Luthan can kind of push

1051
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 3: people into action.

1052
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's it is a reflection of something that

1053
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: goes on like in real life. You know, we're used

1054
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: to Star Wars framing it as you know, rebels versus Empire,

1055
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: but here we're understanding and through the Clone Wars and Rebels,

1056
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: we're understanding that there were factions, there were schisms, there

1057
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: were different factions that had to team up. Like here

1058
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: saw his having to make the decision of going against

1059
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: some of his ideals in order to team up with

1060
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: someone Krieger, who politically he was absolutely against during the

1061
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: Clone Wars days, who was a separatist who was like

1062
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: not pro republic. And this is you know, I'm reading

1063
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,919
Speaker 1: this book Opposing Power by Elvin Ong, and it's about

1064
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: out how opposition forces build alliances in the face of

1065
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: like autocracies and dictatorships. And it talks about like, you know,

1066
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: successful protest movements in the Philippines and the eighties and

1067
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: Korea also in the eighties, and how these groups, these

1068
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: opposition groups managed to to you know, revitalized democracy in

1069
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 1: those countries and over throw dictators because all of these

1070
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: opposition groups that didn't necessarily agree with each other politically decided, Okay,

1071
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: we actually need you have a good get out the

1072
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: vote network, I have like the ability to communicate to

1073
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: people on television. Therefore, and we both agree that this

1074
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: dictator needs to go. Therefore, we need to team up.

1075
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: And here we're seeing that happen in this fictional Star Wars,

1076
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: these these groups, you know, Sagrera saying, Okay, I can't

1077
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: do it alone. Fine, I'll team up with Kreeger. He's

1078
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: got to follow my rules, but we can do this.

1079
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: And that that's how we're seeing this rebellion kind of

1080
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: like slowly knit itself together. It's aristocratic people like Monnema

1081
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: and rich folks like Luthen, and these hard scrabble idealists

1082
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: like Saw and other people from who knows where, like Krieger,

1083
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: who politically, probably during the Clone Wars, could not have

1084
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: agreed on one single thing, all coming together now because

1085
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: they agree that the Empire's just got to fucking go.

1086
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting to see them pushing this message

1087
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 3: of solidarity across like boundaries and the reality of how

1088
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 3: many people there are who agree on the problems with

1089
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 3: people in power, and how few people in power they

1090
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 3: actually are. That is the nature of the Nachina five escape.

1091
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 3: There's five thousand prisoners that should even could have happened

1092
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 3: any time, but they separate people so that they can't

1093
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 3: do it.

1094
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 2: They fight again.

1095
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 3: They made them fight against each other in this horrific

1096
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 3: idea of like, this person is doing well, so you're

1097
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 3: going to be punished for it, which we see in

1098
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 3: our real life.

1099
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 2: So I love that idea of.

1100
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 3: Reminding people that if you come together, even if you

1101
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 3: don't completely agree, you may be able to make things

1102
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 3: a little bit bad.

1103
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 2: It's a good message.

1104
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: There's also a really interesting subtext to this entire series

1105
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: that hasn't really been explored that much now, and it

1106
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: is the human supremacist angle to both the Empire. The

1107
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: Empire in particular, but also this kind of nascent rebellion

1108
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: less so with obviously saus partisans which include you know,

1109
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: alien fighters in that group, but you don't the empire

1110
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: is just humans, like it is, humans in prison, even

1111
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: the people they put in prison. They are not interested

1112
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: at all in aliens having any kind of agency in

1113
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: the upper levels of their leadership. And you know, it

1114
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: really underlines how impressive throngs rise in the imperial leadership

1115
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: is because this is not a group that is interested

1116
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: in anything that alien species have to do, or says

1117
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: that's it and can you help us smuggle shit? That's

1118
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: like that's basically it.

1119
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting.

1120
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,919
Speaker 1: Actually, now there's the cynical side of me can also

1121
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: say maybe it's budgetary, they just end of the budget fact,

1122
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: but I don't think that's the case because of how

1123
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: thought out this show really feels, and knowing what we

1124
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: know about Tony Gilder's writing, it seems like a very

1125
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: specific choice to highlight the human supremacist angle of the Empire,

1126
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: in particular. In space above Sauce Hideout, Luthen makes contact

1127
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: with Clea. They're speaking in code here because they they

1128
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're unsure if they've been listened to,

1129
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: so they're using this kind of a dialogue to make

1130
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 1: it sound as if they're just talking about the shop

1131
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: and talking about the various things that they sell there.

1132
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: She is basically telling him that something is kind of

1133
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: off and you should come home as soon as possible

1134
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: because we need to adjust our plans a little bit.

1135
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: Then the signal breaks off, and it's because it's being

1136
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: jammed by an imperial patrol. Luthen is trying to talk

1137
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: his way out of it as the as the Empire

1138
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: is making contact with him, he gives a phony transponder

1139
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: scan out of Aldron. The ide absolutely checks out, but

1140
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: the imperiors are like, fuck it, we need the practice

1141
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: we need for They're so arrogant. This is like what

1142
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: we saw in Narcina five, where it's just like fuck it,

1143
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: arrest anybody who's going to stop them.

1144
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's going to still involved? At this point. They're masochists.

1145
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: They want to have absolutely, so Luthan preps his ship

1146
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: to make a run for it. He engages his countermeasures,

1147
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: shreds the Imperial tractor Dish takes out a handful of

1148
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: tie fighters on his way to hyperspace. It's absolutely its

1149
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: action scene, it's so good.

1150
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 3: And what he does is like a it's an EU

1151
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 3: staple where it's he he lets shrapnel out and it

1152
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 3: is caught in the track to be a minute, destroys

1153
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 3: the Imperial tractor, which is so cool, like so it's yeah, shrapnel.

1154
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: Just it's fucking great. And his it's his ship.

1155
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and the the Imperial ship is the they

1156
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: call it a Campwell Class, which is based on Colin

1157
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 3: Campwell art. So that's a cool nod, which I think

1158
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 3: our Discord will really like that one because they've been

1159
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 3: having a lot of fun with ships during this show.

1160
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's just like a really really

1161
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: great action scene and it lets you know also that

1162
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: Luthen is not surviving all of this time because he's gone.

1163
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,959
Speaker 1: He's got lucky obviously, but he's also he's also thought

1164
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: all of this shit through. He's been doing this a while. Absolutely.

1165
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: Cassian contacts Zen on Feryx and learns sadly that his

1166
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: mother is passed. He's absolutely stunned, and it's an incredible

1167
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 1: contrast to like the background of Niamo's through on this

1168
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: beautiful beach. The waves are crashing against the beach, this

1169
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: gentle kind of a shushing sound, and he walks over

1170
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,439
Speaker 1: to Melchie and Melchi asks him, like about the call,

1171
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: and Cassian doesn't tell him what happened. Melchie is soaking

1172
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: in freedom, but also Melchie has become radicalized by this,

1173
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: by this whole thing, this the ordeal that they've been through.

1174
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: He says, like, you know, first he asks how many

1175
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: people do you think made it out? And they're like,

1176
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: and Cassian is like, not enough. And then mel She says, Okay,

1177
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: we have to tell people what's going on here. People

1178
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: have to know. We need to split up, double our

1179
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: chances of getting out and getting to someplace where we

1180
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: can speak the truth of what happened and here and

1181
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: let's get out of here. And they bid each other goodbye.

1182
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: Cassie and gives Melschie a blaster and they give this

1183
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: really like, I mean, I got choked up a little

1184
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: the way they part, because you just know that they're

1185
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: going to be together again. You understand also like how

1186
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: meaningful it is that they're fighting together on scaif in

1187
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: rogue one. And then they part and that's it that

1188
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:28,439
Speaker 1: leads us, that leaves us the finale. What a show.

1189
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: This continues to be some of the best Star Wars

1190
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: any one has ever seen.

1191
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so good and okay, so let's think about it.

1192
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 3: The finale's coming up. Seems like it's going to take

1193
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 3: place at Marv's funeral. That seems like the most likely option.

1194
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: I wonder.

1195
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 3: Do you think, what do you think they're building in

1196
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 3: Nacina five? Because I think a lot of people were

1197
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 3: kind of in this space where they were like, is

1198
01:07:58,240 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 3: it the Death Star?

1199
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 2: Is it you know, something really important? Is it irrelevant?

1200
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 3: Tony Gilroy has recently in a couple of interviews basically

1201
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 3: kind of said it's not irrelevant. It's actually incredibly relevant

1202
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 3: to season two.

1203
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 2: And it does. Yeah, he was interviewed in.

1204
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 3: The Hollywood Reporter and he said, they're building season two.

1205
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 3: It's the spine of season two. I've heard all kinds

1206
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 3: of things, and it's great, all of the material that

1207
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 3: the Empire has. I look at everything and think economically,

1208
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 3: how does this work? Who built Scariff?

1209
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 2: How do you build that?

1210
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,560
Speaker 3: How do you build ether? How do you build the

1211
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 3: Death Star? And the armada of ships? There's a lot

1212
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 3: of things that need to be built, and there's an

1213
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 3: incredible amount of material, So to me, what they're building

1214
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 3: is not as important as the scale of it. But

1215
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 3: he said they're building the spine of season two, so

1216
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 3: I'm very interested.

1217
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 1: Well, I this I've been wondering all season as well.

1218
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: And the ship that intercepts luth and made me wonder. Obviously,

1219
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: it could be anything, and it could be the Death

1220
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: Star and it could be ad Ats, but I'm I

1221
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: was wondering if it's not because we haven't seen them yet,

1222
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,600
Speaker 1: some kind of star destroyer class. Oh, that would be

1223
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 1: really interesting and could be because we haven't seen them yet.

1224
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: That's a huge high stakes, but it's not the Death Star. Yeah.

1225
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 3: Tony actually like debunked one of the theories that I

1226
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 3: loved the most, which was so bleak and definitely was

1227
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 3: like one, I just think it's so good because it's

1228
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 3: so in tone of the show.

1229
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 2: Somebody a lot of really popular fan theory was that

1230
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 2: every room is just building the next room.

1231
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: How that is like legitimately the bleakest thing, so.

1232
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,680
Speaker 3: Sad, and Tony was like, that's so bleak but so

1233
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 3: good paraphrasing, But yeah, that was not the case.

1234
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 2: So I love that idea. I think the Star. I

1235
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 2: think tm x ray looking at the chats, I think

1236
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: we're all in on the Star Destroyer.

1237
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 3: I think that is I think that's a really great

1238
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 3: call because also one Star destroyer building, one Star destroyer,

1239
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 3: destroying one Star destroyer trying to stop a Star destroyer.

1240
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 3: That is a very doable twelve episode arc. I would

1241
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 3: be very interested to see if that's what it is,

1242
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 3: especially the reading that we've done the books that we love,

1243
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 3: like Claudia Gray.

1244
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 2: Lost Stars.

1245
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 3: I always shout it out, but that's a really interesting

1246
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 3: book takes place over the three original trilogy films with

1247
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 3: new characters and kind of what the day to day

1248
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 3: of their lives looks like in the Rebellion and in

1249
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 3: the Empire, and I can kind of imagine them going

1250
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 3: for that kind of like here's what, you know, digging

1251
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 3: into what Andor's done, so while showing the bureaucracy and

1252
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 3: the little people who are behind these things, the people

1253
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 3: like Cyril who work doing one job that seems totally

1254
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,759
Speaker 3: disconnected to the horrors of the Empire, but are exactly

1255
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 3: still tools of it. And the one person in the

1256
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 3: Rebellion who does even know they're in the Rebellion, who

1257
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 3: just helps someone out because they think it's the right

1258
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 3: thing to do, and then that person goes on to

1259
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 3: lead it. I mean, I think that's so interesting, and

1260
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 3: I think the Start Destroyer could be a great landscape

1261
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 3: for that to take place in season two.

1262
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: Well, we've got more and Or coming up up next,

1263
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 1: a conversation with and Or creator Tony Gilroy. X ray

1264
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:28,640
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Speaker 1: you might be saying, how about running? Okay, that's good?

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Speaker 1: What else? How about jogging, which is just got like

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Speaker 1: a slower version of running. Okay, I can do that.

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Speaker 1: What about training? Got it? Swimming? Yes, that's right. You

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Speaker 1: can enter a completely other medium of the earth and

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Speaker 1: you need Indeed. Welcome to the High Mind, where we

1326
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: explore a topic in more detail with the help of

1327
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: expert guests. This week we are thrilled to have Tony

1328
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 1: gilroy Oscar nominated writer and director and the creator of

1329
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: and Or. Note. We recorded this interview while Rosie and

1330
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 1: I were on the road. Apologies in advance if the

1331
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: audio quality is not quite up to x ray vision

1332
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 1: top top standards. Tony, thanks so much for joining us.

1333
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,360
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's really knocked Rosie

1334
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:37,799
Speaker 1: and I out about your story is how it shows

1335
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: how regular people, not necessarily you know, Jedi, space wizards, etc.

1336
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 1: Would get enmeshed in a fight like this would either

1337
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 1: rebel or decide to join the forces that would oppress

1338
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: the rebellion. What was the genesis of this story?

1339
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 4: Well, I mean it started from, you know, the concept

1340
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 4: from lucasfilm, which was that they were interested in doing

1341
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 4: a prequel from Rogue one and doing you know, the

1342
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 4: five years of Cassian and or story before Rogue one,

1343
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,680
Speaker 4: and so that was that was the very first That

1344
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 4: was the that was the buy in, and then you know,

1345
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 4: what's your version of that? I think they tried. They

1346
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 4: did try a couple other versions of it with different approaches.

1347
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 4: My attitude about it, sort of from the sidelines along

1348
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 4: the way, was it seems to me it's pretty obvious

1349
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 4: what you have to do if you have this incredibly

1350
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:34,600
Speaker 4: accomplished character in Rogue one, who is, you know, the

1351
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 4: tactical leader, the person that the Alliance trusts to go

1352
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 4: on the most important mission possible, and a guy who

1353
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 4: exhibits all these incredible leadership skills along the way tactically

1354
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 4: and he changes his mind and he lies and he

1355
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 4: does all the things that a leader has to do

1356
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 4: on a mission like that, and then the guy gives

1357
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 4: his life for every willingly, But who is that person?

1358
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 4: So my idea is I said, well, you want if

1359
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 4: you're gonna do a show about that person, you know,

1360
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 4: either going what's going to happen to, then you want

1361
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:05,839
Speaker 4: to take them as far away from that as possible

1362
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 4: five years ago. You want to have a show about becoming. Yeah,

1363
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 4: on our show in in many ways is about becoming.

1364
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,759
Speaker 4: It's a revolution becoming a revolution. It's about Cacinando becoming

1365
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 4: a revolutionary and then becoming a leader. It's about a

1366
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 4: lot of people becoming different things.

1367
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 3: So and when it came to you knew you were

1368
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 3: going to show the becoming. So when it came to

1369
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 3: building the world, one of the things that's kind of

1370
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 3: blown us away. Star Wars has always been analogous, but

1371
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 3: this feels like a show that has a lot of

1372
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 3: very radical things to stay about building a rebellion and

1373
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 3: the becoming of a rebellion, and the kind of world

1374
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:42,799
Speaker 3: that encourages a rebellion, a world with horrific prison labor,

1375
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 3: you know, a world that oppresses the most vulnerable.

1376
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 2: Could you speak a little bit about building that world

1377
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 2: that would encourage Cassian to become the person that we see.

1378
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 4: In Rogue Wan Well, canonically in Star Wars, in the

1379
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 4: five years, I have a five year tranche of history

1380
01:17:57,880 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 4: to take care of. I have a five year calendar,

1381
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 4: so I know what happens in those five years. I

1382
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 4: don't really have to spend very much time thinking about

1383
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 4: anything else. It's and so I have to Those five

1384
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 4: years are canonically clear to me. There's no question of

1385
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 4: the established atrocities and motivations of an empire, right, I mean,

1386
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 4: that's you know, and we know we know how how

1387
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 4: bitter and horrifying and genocidal the battle will ultimately be,

1388
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 4: and how you know, devastating it will be to Alderon

1389
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 4: and everything else. So you know all that. But all

1390
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 4: that said, I do never start anything with an agenda.

1391
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 4: I start with characters, and I have my still beliefs

1392
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 4: that I hope will you know, in some way osmodically

1393
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 4: you know, work their way through. But I don't ever

1394
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 4: think about, oh, I have an extra grind about this,

1395
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:51,519
Speaker 4: I'm going to talk about this or I didn't start

1396
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 4: Michael Clayton because I wanted to do a story about

1397
01:18:54,280 --> 01:19:00,080
Speaker 4: industrial uh you know industrial uh, you know, atrocity. I

1398
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 4: started because I was like, oh, the guy is a

1399
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:03,760
Speaker 4: fixture and what happens is so I'm really interested in

1400
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,680
Speaker 4: the characters and I and I've learned over time that

1401
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 4: it works for me and it's just what I'm interested.

1402
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 4: I start very very small, and I build my way out.

1403
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 4: I know there's been a lot of you know, there's

1404
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 4: a lot of political I've been watching. You know, the

1405
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 4: conversation is fascinating to watch all the conversations that the

1406
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 4: show is you know, engendered over the past couple of months.

1407
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 4: But and I know the show there's all kinds of

1408
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 4: people that trying to lay claim in different ways to

1409
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 4: the politics of the show. But you know, to me,

1410
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,680
Speaker 4: I've been studying history just as an amateur, as an

1411
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:42,759
Speaker 4: idiot Amazon, you know, a idiots home, a DIY historian

1412
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 4: for years. And you know, there isn't anything in our

1413
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 4: show that hasn't been going on for three thousand years.

1414
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 4: I mean, colonialism, it's same oppression, harm, behavior, torture or whatever.

1415
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 4: It's all there. So the great thing about this show

1416
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 4: is you can sort of needle drop and do a

1417
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 4: I could take we can take something from the it

1418
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 4: takes something from heres, the Russian Revolution. So that's all.

1419
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 4: That's the beauty of it, and that's but my way

1420
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,600
Speaker 4: in is really through character, what happens next to the

1421
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:12,560
Speaker 4: people you care about, and making you care about.

1422
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 1: Them, thinking about your work, you know, from the cutting

1423
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: edge all the way up through the board. I love

1424
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 1: the cutting edge. Just ye, come on, why I.

1425
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 4: Don't think that's been fully analyzed. Yeah, I don't think.

1426
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: That's the episode. But you know, like thinking about your

1427
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,520
Speaker 1: working that way. It's often these characters who find themselves,

1428
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 1: for one reason or another, in a context that they

1429
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: were not necessarily prepared for, and now they have to

1430
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: make do with what they have. You have the ice

1431
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:47,720
Speaker 1: skater that you know, the hockey player who now can

1432
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 1: no longer play hockey, now has to do figure skating.

1433
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: You have the spy who you know was brainwashed but

1434
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: now has their agency back and they're cut loose in

1435
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 1: the world. In Michael Clayton, you have a guy who's

1436
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, the scales fall from his eyes. He's a

1437
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 1: fixer for much bigger figures and realizes he's caught between

1438
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 1: these two worlds of power and powerlessness and his morality

1439
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 1: looking at looking at and or in that in that

1440
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: kind of context, I'm really struck by how it's uh

1441
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: it seems like and I know you say you don't

1442
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, start with you know, with any with any

1443
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,679
Speaker 1: kind of like agenda. But I wonder if you might say,

1444
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 1: if you might talk about how you build a character

1445
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 1: and you know where this kind of character falls, and

1446
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 1: the kind of characters that you've that you've that you've

1447
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:39,679
Speaker 1: built in the past. I love cutting edge again.

1448
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 4: I mean, hopefully they're all unique. I mean, every single

1449
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 4: one of them wants to be you know, bespoke and

1450
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:48,760
Speaker 4: and they want to be their own thing. I mean

1451
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:51,880
Speaker 4: I think that, uh, I think I've come to believe

1452
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 4: over time that uh that, uh, the single most important

1453
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 4: part of this is empathy. And you really you have

1454
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 4: to be ridiculously empathetic to all of the people that

1455
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 4: you're building and very and really care about them. Doesn't

1456
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 4: matter if they're you know, or synchronic or or or

1457
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 4: or or you know or Doug Dorsey in the in

1458
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 4: the you gotta get in there, you know, you got

1459
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,160
Speaker 4: to really live it with them, and you gotta really so.

1460
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 4: I I don't have a holistic answer to that. I

1461
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:32,200
Speaker 4: have a very personal every one of them is a

1462
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:34,320
Speaker 4: little temple and they're all you know, that makes it

1463
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 4: sound pretentious and bullshitty, but like they're all they're all

1464
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 4: real to me, and and and they all they couldn't

1465
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 4: sound like anybody other than themselves. And I think you

1466
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 4: can always tell that when you read someone's writing. You know,

1467
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 4: if you read a writer and if all the characters

1468
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 4: sort of sound the same, or if someone's IQ goes

1469
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 4: up and down based on what they want the story

1470
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 4: to do or whatever, then you know you're with somebody

1471
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 4: who's not maybe maybe not. Uh, I'm not not sticking

1472
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 4: to the rigor of that. Good writing is really where

1473
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 4: the writers are invested in the people so much that

1474
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 4: they could only.

1475
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: Do what they do.

1476
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. And something that I found like really unique as

1477
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 3: from a writing standpoint of Ander is this choice of

1478
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 3: the arcs and kind of telling these small stories within

1479
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 3: the bigger kind of season. Could you talk a little

1480
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 3: bit about that choice and kind of the why that

1481
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 3: felt like the best route to go.

1482
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 4: Well, a lot of people, do you know, I mean,

1483
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:31,640
Speaker 4: we started out there with people I remember, you know,

1484
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 4: it used to be I did my tone to television

1485
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 4: over the last twenty thirty years, and network television a

1486
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,560
Speaker 4: couple of times try to do things and then the

1487
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 4: dictum always was, Oh, your first episode has to be

1488
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 4: your twentieth episode, Your first episode has to be I mean,

1489
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 4: that was really what the old system was. And then

1490
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 4: you know, and then you move into a more you know,

1491
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 4: as the stories have gotten more long term and you know,

1492
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 4: and more complicated, there's a different kind of structure for

1493
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 4: how they work. But I don't think that there's any

1494
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 4: any clear I think everybody's doing everything for the first

1495
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 4: time now. In many ways, I think we're just at

1496
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 4: the frontier of streaming and we're watching these huge shows.

1497
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,800
Speaker 4: I mean, these are the beginning of something really new.

1498
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 4: I don't think there's any rule about what to do.

1499
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,600
Speaker 4: And the way our show laid out, it was like, well, coincidentally,

1500
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 4: directors direct three episodes for us, the directors come in

1501
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 4: and they direct a block of three. So it sort

1502
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 4: of became a weird organizing principle in its own way,

1503
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 4: and you kind of lean into it a little bit.

1504
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:32,760
Speaker 4: We're not perfect because you see in seven we drop

1505
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 4: and seven is a standalone that episode and then a

1506
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 4: kine and ten and then our last two episodes will

1507
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 4: be sort of of a piece a little bit. I

1508
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 4: guess we're not I don't think we're like, we're not.

1509
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 4: You know, it's not it's not this rigorous, strict thing.

1510
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 4: It's kind of the way it laid out and kind

1511
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 4: of the way it worked for the directors. And I

1512
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 4: think that there are no rules. I think the main

1513
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 4: rule is do you want to see what happens next?

1514
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 4: That's yeah, yeah, that's the rule that matters, right.

1515
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you mentioned dipping your toe on TV before.

1516
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,680
Speaker 1: Obviously this is a TV property. You've moved from screenwriting

1517
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: to directing and now you're showrunner working with directors. What's

1518
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 1: that transition been like and how does it change your

1519
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 1: perspective as a person who's telling stories.

1520
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll talk about I want to talk about the

1521
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 4: directing thing, because that's an old story for you. But

1522
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 4: the show running thing is nastly because I was going

1523
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:27,080
Speaker 4: to direct the first three episodes of this and I

1524
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, that's what I'm here for, and I'll

1525
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 4: do this and then I'll get them, and then you know,

1526
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 4: you realize what the gig is. And it was just

1527
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 4: incredibly naive and and COVID really saved our show because

1528
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 4: we got we got completely shut down and just everything

1529
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 4: just went on hold. For six or seven months and

1530
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 4: I couldn't come back to London. I didn't want to

1531
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 4: come back to London and direct in the midst. There

1532
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 4: was no vaccine or anything like that at that point,

1533
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 4: and it just turned into like, okay, let's and I

1534
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 4: started rewriting my episodes and rewriting everybody else's episodes and

1535
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 4: tuning everything up. And came time to hire directors, and

1536
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 4: it's I've never hired director before. And that's a really

1537
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:04,559
Speaker 4: that's a really fascinating I didn't take it quite as

1538
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 4: seriously in the beginning as I think I thought it

1539
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 4: would be easier. It's very very difficult. You have to

1540
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 4: watch lots of stuff, incredible amount of stuff. You have

1541
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:13,560
Speaker 4: to find a way to parse your way through it.

1542
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 4: There's an incredible amount of competition between shows because there's

1543
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 4: so many shows. Really hard to get directors, and it's

1544
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 4: really there's a limited number of directors who have you know,

1545
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 4: we need directors who have a certain amount of flight time.

1546
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 4: You know, you can't this is like flying a seven

1547
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 4: forty seven. You can't just get so so we have

1548
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 4: a different criteria than they had to be. It was,

1549
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 4: it was it's very unanticipatedly difficult. We lucked out the

1550
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:45,840
Speaker 4: first time around. I think we've lucked out this time around.

1551
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 4: We have we have three new directors that are coming

1552
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 4: back for this for this the second half. We start

1553
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 4: shooting in November. But man, it's it's I'll tell you

1554
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 4: one thing, it's the competition is really really tough to

1555
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 4: find that not to if you have a smaller show

1556
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 4: where you could swing away and be loose, you know,

1557
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 4: but you can't figure out how to do this show

1558
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 4: on the job, right, It's just like too many people

1559
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:12,639
Speaker 4: have just drowned.

1560
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:13,760
Speaker 1: So the.

1561
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 4: Then diagram of what you're looking for, it's and then

1562
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:19,799
Speaker 4: everybody's after the same people.

1563
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 2: So it was very tricky and it was such a

1564
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 2: like long like you talked about, you know, being shut

1565
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 2: down by COVID, this new experience of a show where

1566
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 2: a searching for these directors. How did it? And obviously

1567
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 2: the nature of filming a show like this is very

1568
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 2: different to a smaller film or a smaller show. How

1569
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 2: did it feel once you started to see the fully.

1570
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 3: Finished episodes and kind of see the end of that

1571
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 3: first part of the journey of making the first season?

1572
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, quite honestly, I have to I mean,

1573
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:49,439
Speaker 4: I've been on it for three years now, and in

1574
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:52,680
Speaker 4: the middle of it, you know, I'll be honest, you

1575
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 4: just wondering what did I do to my life?

1576
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1577
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I mean, seriously, is it

1578
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 4: worth it? I mean, many days agoing like what have

1579
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 4: I done? I could be doing anything I want to do,

1580
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 4: I can do to right and to play, I could

1581
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 4: make a movie. What am I doing? What did I

1582
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 4: do to my life? Is it worth it? And it

1583
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,559
Speaker 4: really really wasn't until you know, about a year ago

1584
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 4: we really did start to put the episodes together in

1585
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:22,640
Speaker 4: a kind of way that we could actually sort of

1586
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 4: and solve some of the you know, really some of

1587
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 4: the visual effects started coming in, we started do stuff,

1588
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 4: and my brother John is sort of the over the

1589
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:35,759
Speaker 4: post production overlord. So you know, once the show started

1590
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 4: to come together and we could look at them in

1591
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:39,640
Speaker 4: a whole piece and have other people outside of our

1592
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 4: little tiny community look at them, it started to be like,

1593
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 4: oh my god, maybe this was really worth it. And

1594
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 4: that's the feeling more than anything else, of like, oh

1595
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 4: my god, I haven't wasted the last three years, because

1596
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 4: it really there's times along the way where you you

1597
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:54,720
Speaker 4: could get on a movie. You could be on a

1598
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 4: movie and you could hate the people that you're in

1599
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 4: business with, or you could whatever. You could survive it.

1600
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:02,720
Speaker 4: Now it seems making a movie seem nothing. This is

1601
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 4: like you're just oh my god, I'm on a whaling

1602
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:09,920
Speaker 4: version a whaling pot by eighty and how am I

1603
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:12,440
Speaker 4: ever going to get back to Nantucket?

1604
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:18,720
Speaker 1: You know? Well, Tony, you've made something really really incredible. Yeah,

1605
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: we're big fans of your work, and congratulations on the show.

1606
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see how it ends. All right,

1607
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 1: thank you, have a good day. Big thank you to

1608
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Tony Gilroy and Rosie Knight for joining us on X

1609
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: ray Vision. Rosie, what do you have to plug? Plug?

1610
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:38,599
Speaker 3: Plug?

1611
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: Plug plugs.

1612
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:41,680
Speaker 2: Tony's not here, so I will say watch and Or,

1613
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:45,519
Speaker 2: and the and the Cutting Edge because we talked about

1614
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 2: so much on that interview. For me, you can find

1615
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:51,680
Speaker 2: me Rosie Marx at Instagram and letterbox.

1616
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 3: I am here every week. I will be having some

1617
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 3: cool comment but news to talk about. You can read

1618
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 3: my writing at Polygon, of Geek, ign, Nudice, a bunch

1619
01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 3: of different places, and I now have officially migrated my website.

1620
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 2: So my website is Rosienight dot com. If you want

1621
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:11,759
Speaker 2: to look at some check.

1622
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 3: It out.

1623
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 1: Crash Sash web press some quick updates and news. Xtra

1624
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 1: Vision will be taking a well earned break for Thanksgiving

1625
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 1: next week. We hope you're all able to do that

1626
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 1: as well, so catch the next episode on December second,

1627
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: where we'll be diving into the finale of and or

1628
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 1: lots of and or discussion that week. Plus, we're gonna

1629
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:40,600
Speaker 1: be hosting a panel and a live podcast recording at

1630
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 1: LA Comic Con on Saturday, December third, from eleven thirty

1631
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 1: to one pm Pacific and Panel Room four or two.

1632
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:50,160
Speaker 1: More information on that to come, and you can find

1633
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: that through the show notes. But again, if you're in

1634
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 1: LA in the first week of December and you want

1635
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 1: to come through, come check it out, Come meet us,

1636
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: come talk to us. It'll be fun. Check out the

1637
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 1: La Comic Con app website plus the show notes for

1638
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: specifics again and tickets if you want to come see

1639
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 1: the live taping of x ray Vision. Five star reviews.

1640
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 1: We gotta have them, we love them, we need them,

1641
01:31:15,200 --> 01:31:19,679
Speaker 1: we can't live without them. Here is Matt Morichie Rosie

1642
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:22,640
Speaker 1: Night is amazing there, great tandem and really appreciate the

1643
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 1: branding as well. Five stars.

1644
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,680
Speaker 3: Thank you Matt, Thank you Matt, and thank you to

1645
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,120
Speaker 3: the people who designed off branding, which is really cool.

1646
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:33,320
Speaker 1: And then finally some other housekeeping notes. X Ravision is

1647
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: going to be going to two episodes at an undisclosed

1648
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 1: data in the future. We're figuring that out right now,

1649
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:41,240
Speaker 1: but it's going to be in the more medium term

1650
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 1: than the longer term, certainly. And thanks to all of

1651
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: you reached out and have expressed sadness at the ending

1652
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 1: of takeline. It's so delighted that everybody listened to it,

1653
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 1: and it was a pleasure to give all of you

1654
01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 1: some of the most fun sports content I thought out there,

1655
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:05,080
Speaker 1: and it will free up time for all of us

1656
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 1: to do other stuff. Thank you for your kind words.

1657
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 1: Also thanks for everyone who wished me a happy birthday

1658
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. That was so delightful, That

1659
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: was so nice. X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production.

1660
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:20,720
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin.

1661
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:23,680
Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy's Rhard Are.

1662
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designers by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and

1663
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,080
Speaker 1: Matt to group provide video production support. Alex Rollaford handle

1664
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 1: social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for a theme music.

1665
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 1: See it in two weeks.

1666
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 6: Hey, Mike, it's Hisenough for Marine. I want to talking

1667
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 6: about not Tina five today. First of all, absolutely is

1668
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:46,760
Speaker 6: despicle what was going on? Then, Mike, you know, we

1669
01:32:47,479 --> 01:32:49,479
Speaker 6: the Galaxy's got to know about the things that are

1670
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 6: going on. That's absolutely terrible. But I just gotta say this, Keino,

1671
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 6: First of all, I hope you survived. I don't know

1672
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,640
Speaker 6: if you survived. But just to anybody who's watching this

1673
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 6: is hearing this right now, swim is not that hard. Guys, like,

1674
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:04,240
Speaker 6: don't be so nervous about it. He's getting this.

1675
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:07,720
Speaker 1: Here's what it is. Kick your legs and then just

1676
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 1: like move your arms. That's it. That's it.

1677
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 6: You did it for nine months in your mother's womb.

1678
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 6: You could do it again. It's not that hard.

1679
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:15,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1680
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 6: I'm not saying it's not a lot a long distance

1681
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,640
Speaker 6: to swim. But Keino, don't be scared of it. You

1682
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:25,280
Speaker 6: survive not Keenu five. You can survive this. Just kick

1683
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 6: your legs, all right. I'll take my hands off to you.

1684
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 2: Thank you,