1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number two and in 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: seventy one, and today I'm joined by Todd Havill, a 6 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: serious white tail hunter from the Upper Midwest, specializing in 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: tracking down bucks on the ground. All right, welcome to 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: and Todan. The show. I've got Todd Havil with me, 10 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: and as I just mentioned, Todd is a tracker. Now, 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: I've talked to a couple of folks over the years 12 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: that track down deer in the snow on foot, but 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: they've always been people up in the Northeast states like 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: Maine or New York or New Hampshire, were tracking deer 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: is a really popular practice. But what's unique about Todd 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: is that he's adapted this style of hunting to the Midwest, 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: and in particular he's up in the Upper Great Lakes 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: region of northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, and that makes 19 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: him pretty unique in the white tailed tracking world. So 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: in our conversation today, we discuss how we got into 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: the style of hunting, how he specifically identifies mature buck tracks, 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: which I think can be helpful for any of us, 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: regardless of if you're gonna be tracking or not. Um, 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: we discuss the approach he takes to following and hunting 25 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: these deer. And then finally, and maybe most interestingly, we 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: cover the specific things that he's learned about mature bucks 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: by way of tracking hundreds of them down on foot 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: and and noticed how they moved through the woods, and 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: how they how they bed, how they maneuver, all these 30 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: different things. I mean, it's it's pretty fascinating the inside 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: he's gained over years of doing this. So, without further ado, 32 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: we do not have a pregame show in the books today, 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and then we'll get 34 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: Todd Havill on the line. All right with me? Now 35 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: on the show is Todd Hovel and Todd welcome to 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: the show. I appreciate you, appreciate you coming on. I 37 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: was just saying before we start recording, buddy of mine, 38 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: Ross Uh. Listeners of the podcast might recognize him as 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: Ross hass Um. He is an even more thorough lurker 40 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: on the Hunting Beast Forum than I am, and so 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: he keeps tracking things more more frequent than I do. 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: In a while back, he said, yeah, I talked to Todd. Yeah, 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: I talked to this guy. He's he's tracking bucks on 44 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: the foot. He's doing some really cool stuff. And he's 45 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: not doing it, you know, in the Northeast, where most 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: of these trackers are doing it. He's doing it in 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: the Upper Midwest. And that intrigued me because I've been 48 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: kinda tinking around the idea of trying something like that 49 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: up in northern Michigan because I got a property up there. 50 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: And um So that's a long way of saying that 51 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad this is finally happening Todd, and I'm 52 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: personally I'm selfishly interested in trying to pick your brain 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: and those are always the most fun podcast for me. 54 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to this. Um So, DoD, how 55 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: did this whole thing come to be you tracking bucks? 56 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: How hard did that happen for you? Uh, that's a 57 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: good question. It's kind of interesting answers as well. Um, 58 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: I was a farm farm country hunter central Wisconsin and 59 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: I was looking for a different challenge and uh, mid nineties, 60 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: I headed north to northern Wisconsin take on the big Woods, 61 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: and UM, I took on my style of hunting up there, 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: which is fine, a spot sit there forever, you know, 63 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: just don't give it up dark to dark, put you know, 64 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: grinding hours out um and in the big woods it 65 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: can get pretty lonely. Um. Over the years, I probably 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: averaged seeing one deer a day and UH, so it 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: could get really you could get boring. When the weather 68 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: is really in clement, you freeze the down. UM. I 69 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: reached a point of just it just wasn't in fun anymore. 70 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: I just wasn't enjoying it. And I needed something as 71 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: a spark to do something different, uh, something that to 72 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: spice things up a little bit. And uh I had 73 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: played a round with the idea of tracking, and I 74 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: had done some still hunting, but the tracking I really 75 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of success. But then I ran 76 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: into uh information from the Benoits from out east, and 77 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: I started piqued my interests. So I started studying it 78 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: and started buying their DVDs and their books and and 79 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: finding out more and more about tracking. And UM, I 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: wasn't sure if we could even be done in our 81 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: area because maybe the train was different, situations are different, whatever, 82 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: But I was born determined to try something different, and 83 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: uh that's what got me going. And I just studied 84 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: a lot and just start to jump the tracks and 85 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: and lower behold, I became a tracker. How were those 86 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: early years when you're first doing it? Did you struggle 87 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 1: or did you figure it out pretty quickly? Ah? Well 88 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: I had success quickly. Uh, but even as being quick, 89 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm I always want. I expect things to happen, you know, 90 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: I expect to make things happen. So it didn't happen immediately. 91 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna be able to go out 92 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: and just jump the very first track, track them down, 93 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: shoot him, and this is gonna be easy, you know. 94 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: And it turned out to be that way at all. 95 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: And uh, after about for frustrating hunts, I kind of 96 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: drugged myself back to the camper, uh, licking my wounds, 97 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: and I decided, well, Tiger Woods didn't become the golfer 98 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: he was the first time you went golfing, So I 99 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: can't expect to be a tracker the first time I 100 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: go tracking. And and so I decided to try something different. 101 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: And what I told myself was, I just want to 102 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: learn something new each time out. Each time out, I 103 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: want to track and then evaluate, figure out what I 104 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: could have done different or could have done better, learned 105 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: from that experience, and apply it toward my next track. 106 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: And I thought, Okay, that's how I'm gonna do this, 107 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: and eventually I'm going to be successful. Well well and behold. 108 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: The next day I shot one, so that kind of 109 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: went out the window, but I was happy to have 110 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: be to taste success right away. UM, and it was 111 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: an interesting I'll tell the story about a brief story 112 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: about that two because it's it's an interesting tracking story, 113 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: but it's it's really a little different than the normal 114 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: track you would have. UM. I grabbed the track and uh. 115 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: I followed him for quite a ways and he hooked 116 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: up with a doll with two fawns, and I sorted 117 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: that all out, and I was pretty proud of myself 118 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: that I stayed with the track and uh, and they 119 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: they took off out of that area. Of course, you've 120 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: chasing her at that point, and the fawns were staying 121 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: with her, which was making all kinds of tracks. And 122 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: I followed him into an area where they just started circling. 123 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: She just started running in circles and circles and circles, 124 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: and I had no idea what to do with this. 125 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: I was walking around and around and and it was 126 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: like there was, you know, fifty deer in that area, 127 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: but in essence there was only four deer. But they 128 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: were just running around and around and around. So I 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,679 Speaker 1: made a big loop around the area trying to figure 130 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: out where they came out of there, and they never did. 131 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: I just couldn't find a track where they left. So 132 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: since it was such a big loop that I made, 133 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm thinking they must be in here yet. And I thought, 134 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna stand here for an hour. 135 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get my check, my watch, and I'm gonna 136 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: stand here for an hour. And it was kind of 137 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: on the edge of a swamp, so it was kind 138 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: of a funneled edge there, and I'm thinking, if they 139 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: come back around that this swamp might push them right 140 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: along this edge and I might get a chance at him. 141 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna wait one hour before I try to 142 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: figure this out anymore. So I moved over about fifty 143 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: yards or so. It's where I had a really good 144 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: vision and stopped and stood there for maybe the count 145 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: of five, and here they came, all four of them rotting. 146 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: There was a dose two fads and his buckets chased 147 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: up and he was to say. I put the gun 148 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: up and I took two shots at him, and I 149 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: did pretty good. I hit him in the front shoulder 150 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: two times, about three inches apart on the run. So 151 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: I just really good shooting and uh folded him up. 152 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: He wasn't a monster. A matter of fact. I was 153 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: a little disappointed because he was about a three year 154 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: old and he had a smaller rack on him, and 155 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: it was not a buck I normally would have shot. 156 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: I would have let that dear goal. But it's sank 157 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: and I killed a buck. Tracking This is awesome, you know. 158 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't the typical track where you follow a deer, 159 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: come up behind him and shoot him. But still the 160 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: fact that I tracked this deer led me to this spot, 161 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: led me to make the decision, well, he's chasing her 162 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: around in circles here, I'm going to stand here and 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: give it an hour, you know. And it ended up 164 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: tracking brought me a deer and it was like, this 165 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: is fantastic. So that was my very first one and 166 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: I've never looked backs hits. Wow, so you said just 167 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: before that hunt, the day before whenever, it was that 168 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: you wanted to try to just learn something a little 169 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: bit more each time you go out. So then the 170 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: next time you go out you end up killing one. 171 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: But did you ever get a chance after that to 172 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: sit back and think, like, Okay, what did I learn 173 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: from that hunt? Even though it was a successful one, 174 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: and you thought that you were gonna have to hunt 175 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: and hunt and hunt and keep on learning every single 176 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: time for for dozens and dozens more hunts. Now it 177 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: happens so quick. Was there still any aha or lesson 178 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: learned from this unique hunt? Um? From that hunt and 179 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: every other hunt since I'm I'm learning, I think, I'm all, 180 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: I don't know ten twelve years of this now, Um, 181 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: I'm learning something every time out. The art of tracking 182 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: um is an art. It's a skill, and you never 183 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: you never master it. There's always more you can learn. UM. 184 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: I am just so jealous of a proud of these 185 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: trackers in Africa on sand, on dirt with multiple species, 186 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: and they can sort out all these tracks from all 187 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: these animals and stay with one particular animal on dirt. 188 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: Those those people are superhuman, and there's no way I 189 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: don't think in one lifetime I could ever get that 190 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: good at at staying with the track. I'm I struggle 191 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: with snow. Uh you know it's it's it's amazing. So 192 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: it's it's something you never you never master, You just start. 193 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: You get a little bit better at it as time 194 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: goes on. So I think it is. It's it's a 195 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: never ending process of getting better and better and better. 196 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: Do you do anything in particular to try to, uh, 197 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, in some way record what you learned or 198 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: in any way like I asked this because I like 199 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: to say that I try to learn something remember singing 200 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: one of my hunts too. But then I oftentimes find 201 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: myself off having hunted fifteen days straight during the rut 202 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: or something, and then realize I've never haven't taken any 203 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: time to sit back and think about all these things. 204 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: So sometimes I'll be laying in bed late at night 205 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: and then I have to force myself to think through 206 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: all these days and what I learned from that, or 207 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: what what what what went wrong there? Or when I 208 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: start kind of looking at my maps or maybe tracking, 209 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: like I wish I did a better job with a 210 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: journal or something like that where I recorded everything that happened. 211 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: I'm not good at that. Do you have any trick 212 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: or any processum or system to try to help you 213 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: record these lessons learned or actually kind of make them 214 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: hammer home in anyway? Yeah, A couple of things. Um. 215 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: The first thing, turn your GPS on a track where 216 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: you go when you get done tracking for the day, 217 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: sit down, and if you can transfer that onto a 218 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: bigger screen like a computer monitor or something, take a 219 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: look at that and look at aerial photal and an 220 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: overlay of topographical map and see that deer did and 221 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: what happens is is over one time, ten times, a 222 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: hundred times, a thousand times of watching how these mature 223 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: bucks run the land, you start to think like they 224 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: they all do the same things, they have tendencies. Um, 225 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: you start to see the woods like they do after 226 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: you follow them. And why it's so important to to 227 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: track it is when you're following them, you're not really 228 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: paying a lot of attention to a lot of things. Besides, 229 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: you're focused on the track and watching for the deer, 230 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: so you're really not catching where they're going and how 231 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: they're using the land quite so much. But later on, 232 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: when you start looking at the maps, things start popping 233 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: out at you. And UM, yeah, I've got to say 234 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: that if a young man came to me and said, hey, Todd, 235 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: teach me how to track or teach me how to 236 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: hunt deer, I would say, do you take a journal 237 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: they go in the woods and follow mature bucks. And 238 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: then after you've done that, come back to me. And 239 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: at that point you won't need to be taught anymore. 240 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: You can teach me. So it's um that that's that's 241 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: the first thing is map those deer. Uh um. And 242 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: I hope I don't lose my thought on this, but 243 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: there's something I want to talk about as far as map. 244 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: And he's deer too, But I want to go to 245 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: my second point. Um, watch what they do, not only 246 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: where they go, but watch what they do, how they react, 247 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: what they eat? Um? How you know do they run 248 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: through valley? Do they run the hillside? Do they run 249 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: the top of the hill. Um? When they come to 250 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: a road where they like to cross, and when they 251 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: come to a creek where they like to cross. Um, 252 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: start documenting behavior. What do they eat? Where do they 253 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: bed down? You know when they when they bed where 254 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: do they bet? Um? How do they walk the land, 255 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: how do they walk the train? All the little things 256 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: that they can teach you about their behavior. Um. Again, 257 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: after you follow a lot of them, you really get 258 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: inside of a buck's head. You get inside you know 259 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: exactly what he's gonna do. When you walk through the woods. 260 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: Do you say, well, I'm sure I'm surprised that deer 261 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: hasn't been eaten off of this, or you know, if 262 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: he came across here, he'd eat that for sure, Or 263 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: if he comes through this area, I'm sure he'll cross 264 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: right here more than likely. And what this does is 265 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: it allows you to make really wise choices when there 266 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: isn't snowtting ground, so you're able to kind of apply 267 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: that shoot. Probably someone who doesn't always track, even someone 268 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: who hunts from a tree stand could probably take a 269 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: lot of that same data and a eye that to 270 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: their own way of hunting too. I mean, you can 271 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: almost look at this as just like a scouting method 272 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: like go out somewhere, track a few bucks, learn from it, 273 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: and then even if you don't like that style of hunting, 274 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: you could probably still apply those lessons back to stands 275 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: as well. Oh you the biggest The biggest UH gain 276 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: from this tracking is not shooting a big buck. It's 277 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: what you learn about behavior. That's that's the biggest gain 278 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: you get from tracking. Yeah, because you're not going to 279 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: be tracking on UH in many cases early bull season, um, 280 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: seasons when you don't get snow, maybe even seasons when 281 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: you get really crunchy snow, and it just doesn't pay 282 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: to even try to, you know, go after him. Um. 283 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: But you know what these gear are gonna do, you 284 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: know how they think? Um? And I want to now 285 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: I want to jump back in time a little bit too, 286 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: to this mapping. Yeah, because there's something even more important 287 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: to be discovered and now is when you when you 288 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: map that box and he goes through that area, if 289 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: that buck comes back through, he's gonna take that same trail. 290 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: And if he comes through again, he's going to take 291 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: that same trail. And if he comes through next year, 292 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: he's going to take that same trail. If he lives 293 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: to be another two or three years older, he's going 294 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: to take that same trail. Now, you go into the 295 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: northern regions and it's all continuous woods and there's hundreds 296 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: of thousands of acres. Where do you put a deer stand. Now, 297 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: when I get to learn specific bucks by following and 298 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: mapping their trails, when I throw a stand up, my 299 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: odds still are really bad, But now they went way 300 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: up compared to everybody else because now I'm sitting on 301 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: a trail that I absolutely um certain that a trophy 302 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: buck is using. And that's huge. That's huge, And you 303 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: can get interrupt. I was gonna say that something that 304 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: you personally still do. You do still sometimes throw up 305 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: a tree stand in certain situations and hunt a spot 306 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: like that. I don't because I don't. I don't do 307 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: a lot of archery hunting um and stand hunting. Yes, 308 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: I'll go back and sit you know with the rifle. Uh, 309 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: jump on spots that I that I know that that 310 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: bucks are using, or a particular buck is using. Um. 311 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: Not only that, A lot of times I go back 312 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: and look for his track there if he got good 313 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: snow it uh, because I know if he's if he's 314 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: still alive and he's coming through this area, he's going 315 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: to come along the edge of this swamp here and um, 316 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: I just know that's part of his route. So I 317 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: can go and check that every day until I catch 318 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: them coming through again, and and so it helps me 319 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: there as well. And if it's bare ground, I can 320 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: go sit um on that spot as well with just 321 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: you know, stand or sit on the ground and just 322 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: watch that edge and see if he's If he comes through, 323 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: then I you know, can get a shot at him. 324 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: I know that if if I had time with my business, 325 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: I don't get up north until November. Um so I 326 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: don't do a lot of archery hunting anymore. But if 327 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: I was up there for archery season, I'd be sitting 328 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: all these trails that these bucks are using. And especially 329 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: late November, late October, early November, when these bucks start 330 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: cruising nett ruts just starts getting going. They started going 331 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: out and opening them the scrapes and and running those edges. Boy, 332 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: to have a bowl in your hand, it's sitting on 333 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: those edges. It's phenomenal. I mean, your your odds will 334 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: go way out. And unfortunately I don't. I don't get tied. 335 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: I know spots that I could have killed big deer, 336 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: and I just can't get up there to hunt them 337 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: with the bowl, you know. And then and then after 338 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: two or three years they disappeared. Well I'm sure they're 339 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: you know they're dead by that. So, so as you're 340 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: describing all these things, Um, one of the things I 341 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: was originally kind of curious to hear from you was 342 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: was almost like your sales pitch for tracking bucks. But 343 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: I feel like you've already kind of given us that 344 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: sales pitch just by having these things that you're learning 345 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: from it, because it's so obvious that these are some 346 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: huge benefits tracking deer, just the lessons you can learn 347 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: from it. The it's almost like a master's degree and 348 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: dear behavior by simply following a deer, which I guess 349 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you wanted to learn how to paint, 350 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: like Picasso or something, I imagine if you follow Picasso 351 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: around a hundred times or a hundred different days, you 352 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: learn a lot um Probably just like falling around the 353 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: mature buck a hundred times, you would learn a lot 354 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: to UM. So that sure seems like a great sales 355 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: pitch for why you should try this, But is there 356 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: is there anything else? If somebody's listening, they're like, Wow, 357 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 1: you know it sounds cool, but I don't know if 358 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: it's for me. Um, what else would you would you 359 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: bring up? Were there any other reasons? Why? Why you 360 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: personally love it so much, or why you think other 361 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: people might want to consider it. Yeah, think of me 362 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: every time you're sitting to your dear stand freezing, and 363 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: your knees are knocking, and you're brutally cold, and and 364 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: you're miserable because you've been sitting there for eight hours 365 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: and the wind is blowing hard, and and and and 366 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: you're just you just had had it. I mean, you're 367 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: so cold, you can't even think straight anymore, and you're 368 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: so bored because you haven't seen a deer all day. 369 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: Think of me running around through the woods, having a 370 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: great time, all the adventures. I mean, I carry a 371 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: camera with me. I stopped. I take pictures of things 372 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: that other hunters never see. Animals, pictures of love. I've 373 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: got a picture of a huge pine tree that got 374 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: struck by lightning and it just chattered it. You know, um, lakes, rivers, 375 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: beaver ponds that that normal people don't see. Um. You know, 376 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. The buddy of mine took me 377 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: up beaver trapping. I went with him one day and 378 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: he dropped his snowmobile off the truck and away we 379 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: went in the woods, and and I said, where are 380 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: we going? And and he says, oh, we're heading Norris 381 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: up in here. I says, oh, that little beaver pond, 382 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: way back up in the woods, way back out there. 383 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: He looks at me and he says, yeah, how do 384 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: you know about that? Well, I'm a tracker, you know, 385 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: you get to learn the land. It's it's amazing what 386 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: you learned. You see things that other people don't see. Um, 387 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: I come up on moose, I come up on you know, 388 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: fox woves, um anything, uh, hotters, all kinds of different things. 389 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: You know, things that the average deer stand hunter just 390 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: doesn't get to see your experience. And uh so you know, 391 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: if you want to sit in the stand, you're welcome 392 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: to it, you know. Um, here's here's another nice thing 393 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: about tracking. Um, you did your stouting and you're gonna 394 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: sit in this spot. And you go out there and 395 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: there's a guy. It's public land, and here's a guy 396 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: sitting eight yards away from you hunger stand. You didn't 397 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: even know he was going to be there. Now what 398 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: you know? Um, you're you're a bait hunter. You throw 399 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: a bait down. Um. Then another guy comes and he baits, 400 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, on fifty yards away from you not what 401 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: you know? I mean all these things that nobody stops 402 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: me from going and doing what I want to do, 403 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: and nobody really gets in my way, you know. Um, 404 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: the whole woods is mine and I just go. I can't. 405 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know, if there isn't, if 406 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: I've learned good enough reasons, then I don't know. What 407 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: are you know? Um, here's a here's another good stat 408 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: for you. Let's say I'm successful five percent at the 409 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: time I gotta chase twenty deer. I got a trophy 410 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: buck on the wall. How good of a hunter are you? 411 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: How you know? What's your success rate? You know? Ah? 412 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: I mean it's phenomenal. I don't know of any other 413 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: method where I can walk into a wood somewhere I've 414 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: never been before. I have no idea where I'm going nothing, 415 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: jump the track and and have a deer on the 416 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: ground a two hours a trophy here, and I've I've 417 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: done it. You know. It's it's there's no other method. 418 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: I don't even have to pre scout, I don't even't 419 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: have to look at maps. Um, there's no other method 420 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: that can produce deer like that, you know? And and 421 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: it it's tough. I mean, I'm making a sound easy, 422 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: but it's tough. And this year I don't shot a 423 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: deer the one I when I caught up to with shed, 424 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: I have wanted to mention it, and he was shed, 425 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: so you know, I mean, that's the way it goes. 426 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: In Minnesota, I was right on one tail all day long. 427 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: It was actually two bucks Jason a dole and heat, 428 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: and I should have the boy. I should have caught 429 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: up with him, and I never did. There was I 430 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: was right behind them all day. I got one glimpse 431 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: of those deer all day long, but I know I 432 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: was right behind him. They you know, they just he 433 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: got rocky. All he had to do was turn and 434 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: chase another buck back towards me one time, and it 435 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: would have been I would have shot that deer. You know. 436 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: It just needed one break all day long, and I 437 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: just never got it, you know. So it's just the 438 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: odds were against me this time around. In Wisconsin, I 439 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: tracked down a nice buck and I jumped up up 440 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: and I had one if you shot at him, and 441 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: I took it. And then yes, so um, I went 442 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: over three. I could have went three for three. Wow. Yeah, 443 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: like you said, it's it's, uh, you just never know 444 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: when you go out there, and I think, for now 445 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: I've never done this. I'm never hunting this style that 446 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: you have, although I'm seriously thinking about trying it here soon. 447 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: But I gotta imagine for somebody trying this out, it's 448 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: important to remember that you might, just like you mentioned, 449 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: you might go over and over and over a whole 450 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: season and not get your chance, or you might go 451 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: out the first day or second day and it happens. 452 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: But it's it's no different than any other style of hunting, 453 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: where of course there's a whole lot of variables outside 454 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: of your control that sometimes it's just aren't going to 455 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: go your way. But at least in in your style 456 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: of hunting, you do have some amount of certainty because 457 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: if you find a mature buck track, you know that 458 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: there's a mature buck ahead of you somewhere that you're 459 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: heading towards. While I could go sit on a a 460 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: scrape or go sit in the edge of the betting 461 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: area and I might I have no idea if there's 462 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: a mature buck within five miles, I'm hoping I'm the 463 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: very kind of area, but you just don't know. So 464 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: at least there's some amount of certainty around around your 465 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: style that it's got to be kind of comforting when 466 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: you're when you're hiking out there, at least you know 467 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: there's something up there. So the adrynline flow on a 468 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: good track, I mean, when you find a big track, 469 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: the addreynline flow, it just pushes you forward. You know, 470 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: you know he's there, and you want to get him. 471 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: I don't care how tired you are, I don't care 472 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: how beat up you are or whatever. I'm fifty six 473 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: years old and I get on a track, I'm like 474 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: a twenty year old man again. I mean, I I 475 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: want to catch that deer. I don't care how much 476 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: my back hurts and my hips heard, or my knees hurt, 477 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. If you know, if 478 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: I stopped and check my bearings where I'm at, and 479 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm four miles away from my truck, and i still 480 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: only have three hours left to goal um, and I 481 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: know that if I keep going, I'm going the wrong 482 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: way and I'm gonna have one heck of a long 483 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: walk back. I still keep going. You know, I know 484 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: he's right in front of me there somewhere, and I'm 485 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: hoping to catch him, you know. But it's uh, yeah, 486 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: it's exciting. It's an adrenaline rush for me. I knowing 487 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: that there's a big buck in front of you. Um. 488 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: It's similar to beer hunting a stand hunting. Let's say 489 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: you set up a stand and you you've got a 490 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: big buck peg. Then you know he's in a betting area. Um, 491 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: and you know he's been coming out. You've got trio 492 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: camera pictures of over or whatever the case may be. 493 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: That adrenaline that you're feeling when you're sitting that stand 494 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: is adrenaline I feel every day when I'm on a 495 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: big track. Yeah. Yeah, that's exciting stuff, no doubt about that. 496 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: So how do you how do you get into that situation? Then? 497 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: I've talked to a handful of folks over the years 498 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,479 Speaker 1: that the track. Some folks I've heard just drive back roads. 499 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: Some people drive you know, pulp forest roads through the 500 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: national forest until they cut a big track on the 501 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: snow and they start on that. I've tried other people 502 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: that know there's certain ridgelines where they've seen good tracks 503 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: in the past, and so they'll head right to a 504 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: little terrain feature and walk that kind of stuff. How 505 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: do you approach the beginning of this kind of hunt? 506 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: How I do it is they based more on my 507 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: age than anything else. I do a lot of driving, 508 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: um uh, simply because of my age. If I was 509 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: twenty years old and I felt like putting on ten 510 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: miles a day every day, I think I would cut country, 511 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: um just simply because I think a lot of these 512 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: older bucks are a little bit road shy um and 513 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: and they kind of keep to themselves ah and or 514 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: they might be locked out with those and and so 515 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: they just never do come out to the road. Um. 516 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: I think you could probably find more quality deer just 517 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: cutting country. But being fifty six years old, I kind 518 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: of kind of temper the amount of walking I have 519 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: to do. Um, So I stick to the roads mostly. 520 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: Or if I know where, you know, pararily there's been 521 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: a deer in the past, I'll go and check those 522 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: areas out. And I might walk in the ways and 523 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: and and check some of their runs out to see 524 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: if they're coming through uh particular bucks. But for the 525 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: most part, yeah, it's it's a lot of road time. 526 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: How often do you actually come across the track that 527 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna hunt? I mean, is this something like every 528 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: day you find a track somewhere to hunt, or do 529 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: you just find over course of the season, there's a 530 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: handful of actual stocks you get because it's been that 531 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: many days to catch the mature about crossing the road. 532 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: It's getting worse. It's getting a lot worse. Uh. The 533 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: age structure in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan is getting really bad. 534 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: So those numbers are going down. It's getting harder and 535 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: harder and harder. Uh up in Michigan particularly, Um boy, 536 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: I might I might work four or five days to 537 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: find a good track. Um, it's it's getting there's numbers. Uh, 538 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: there's numbers a deer, but the age structure is shot. 539 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what the problem is. Unfortunately, was the 540 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: winner we've having this year isn't going to help anything either. 541 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's it's getting harder. It's it's getting 542 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: a little bit tougher to find good tracks. So you 543 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: gotta work for him. And when you find a really 544 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: really good one, you know, it's it's it's pretty exciting, 545 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: you know. In the past, in the past, I usually 546 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: don't bother to try to catch up with the same 547 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: deer again. This next day, if I don't get them. 548 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: But I'm starting to rethink that just because of the 549 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: numbers of quality deer that are out there. Um, if 550 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: the situation weren't that, I think I would definitely go 551 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: back after the same deer another day. How do you 552 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, how would you go about that? 553 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: Would you just hike back into the last spot you've 554 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: got into and just try to pick it up that 555 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: you know, twelve hours later, eighteen hours later, or would you, well, 556 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: how would you approach trying to pick that deer back 557 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: up the second day? I would go right back to 558 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: where I left him. Yeah, that's the most easiest guaranteed. Yeah, 559 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Um, so you're now you're now driving 560 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: on the roads, you cut a big track. Tell me 561 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: how do you make that decision? Because this is probably 562 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: one of the very most decisions, most important decisions of 563 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: whole process, right, because determining whether you're gonna actually stalk 564 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,479 Speaker 1: and track a buck or not makes or breaks your 565 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: whole day probably in some cases. Um, And this has 566 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: always been one of the things I always wonder about 567 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: because it seems like there's a lot of ways you 568 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: can possibly screw this up when trying to determine if 569 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: a buck track or if a track is definitely a 570 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: big mature buck or not. UM. I actually watched a 571 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: video of yours once where you were analyzing what looked 572 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: like a sure thing big buck track versus a track 573 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: that might be mistaken for a big buck track. UM, 574 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: could you walk us through that example and maybe some 575 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: others to help us better understand how to properly identify 576 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: the kind of track we would want to follow. Yeah, 577 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: the first thing, the first piece of advice I would 578 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: give is, um, it's human nature to want to find 579 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: a big track. So right off the bat, mentally you're 580 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna find this to be true. You'll start 581 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: to try to convince yourself the tracks that aren't big 582 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: are big. You'll see that that a shitnabowl track, and 583 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: you'll in your mind try to make it bigger. And 584 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: then you'll look at a series of tracks and you'll 585 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: still you'll always take out that biggest one, and mentally 586 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: you'll try to convince yourself that that's a big buck 587 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: because after UH put it on sixty miles driving and 588 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: you haven't found a good track yet, and it's getting 589 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: to be you know, twelve o'clock in the afternoon, and 590 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, and you're you want to get on a 591 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: track that day, you're going to try to convince yourself 592 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: to take that deer. Um. So what I do is 593 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: I always have to say, judge your track by the 594 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: smallest one. So when you're looking at a series of tracks, 595 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: look for the smallest one. Pick the smallest one out 596 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: of that track series, not the biggest one, because a 597 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: lot of times they sidestep, in other words, the front 598 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: or the hind LEGO missed the front just by a 599 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: little bit, make it wider, or it'll fall right behind 600 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: it and make it look longer. Um. And so that 601 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: track looks bigger because it's of course every track is 602 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: actually two tracks. It's a front foot and hind foot 603 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: steps right in the same spot. So any offstep of 604 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: the hind leg is going to make that track look bigger. Um. 605 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: So look at a series and and and try to 606 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: determine a good track. One thing I like to see 607 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: is I like to see the dudes hitting um, especially 608 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 1: in shallow or snow. UM. I like to see him 609 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: sitting back on his feet. That usually designates one or 610 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: two things, either that he is awful tired or he's 611 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: awful heavy or both. Um, But look at a series 612 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,959 Speaker 1: of tracks. I often walk back into the woods hundred 613 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: hundred fifty two yards on a track and really looked 614 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: the whole track, over the whole series of tracks to 615 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: make decisions. I start looking for situations like that he 616 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: duck between two narrow trees, which tells me he doesn't 617 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: have any antlers to speak of. You know, if he 618 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: can go between narrow trees, is he going through thick 619 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: brush instead of avoiding it? Which is a tendency of 620 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: a smaller box versus a bigger buck is likes to 621 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: take the easiest path. Um. You know, if he comes 622 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: to an obstruction and like a fallen tree, is he 623 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: willing to dunk way down to go underneath it or 624 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: does he just walk around it? Again, another tendency of 625 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: a big buck is to walk around those obstacles instead 626 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: of ducking under or having to jump. Um. They're bigger, 627 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: they're older, and they don't like to waste energy. Um. 628 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: So I like to look at a series of tracks 629 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: to make my decision as to what what if I'm 630 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: going to take that deer or not? And and you 631 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: were absolutely correct when you said, that's the most important 632 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: decision you're gonna make all day is whether or not 633 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: I should take that track, because you do not want 634 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: to waste your time. Um, unless you're learning and you're 635 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: just having fun or whatever. Uh, you don't want to 636 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: waste your time on a subpower buck. You don't you 637 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: don't want to put four miles in that day chasing 638 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: a buck. That just isn't what you wanted. So what 639 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: about when you when you are actually looking at the 640 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: track and you've identified what you think are some of 641 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: the smallest tracks of his that you're gonna look at, 642 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: and so okay, this is the most realistic option to 643 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: look at the most realistic example, what characteristics of that 644 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: or um, you know, measurements or any other you know, 645 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: tangible things. Can we look at it? Say? Okay, yeah, 646 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: definitely mature buck. You mentioned the do clause. Um, I 647 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: know some people I've I've even used it sometimes, you know, 648 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: three or four fingers wide might tell you that's a 649 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: that's a big track. Um. Any specific things like that 650 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: that we can kind of take home with us just 651 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: to try to help, you know, gauge the size of 652 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: a track or not. Yeah, I don't know. What I 653 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: she was thirty got six, So I kind of used 654 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: the shell casing as a as a guide. If if 655 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: it's as wide as the shell casing, it's it's pretty good. 656 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 1: If it's wider than the schelle casing, then it's you're 657 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: getting to be a good box. Okay. I mean you 658 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: very seldom see what is wide as the showcasing with 659 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: the bullet um and I don't know. I haven't measured 660 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 1: a thirty six shell. Somebody have to measure that decide. 661 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: I think it's about two or three quarters inches wide. Um. 662 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: But again, make sure that there's a walking track. Don't 663 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: don't measure that track if it's running. If he's walking fast, 664 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: don't measure it. A decent buck is going to take 665 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: about a two foot long stride. If he's taking more 666 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: than that, he's probably in a hurry. And when they're 667 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: it's just like you when you're running. When you're running, 668 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: your foot comes out a lot harder because you're jumping, 669 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: you're you're you're coming off the ground and you're coming 670 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: down hard. Um, that's going to change the way that 671 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: track is gonna look. So I always like to judge 672 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,439 Speaker 1: only from a walking track. Um. And look for one that's, 673 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: like I said, showcasing wide um, and I like to 674 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: see the dew clause hitting h. Another thing, too, is 675 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: I like to see those dew clause setting at least 676 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: is why it's a track a really good buck. And 677 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: I don't know why this is, but almost always on 678 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: a be really good buck and dow clause will sit 679 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: on the outside of that track. A little bit I saw. 680 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: I saw example you shared where you described wanting a 681 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: rectangular track versus a V shaped track with um with 682 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 1: the two sides of the hoof kind of splay it out. 683 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: Can you can you elaborate on that a little bit 684 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: what you meant by that? Yeah, pretty much, when you 685 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: get a V shaped track like that, it's because they're running. 686 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: It's it's almost always when they're hit that that tolls 687 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: spread wide apart. And and that that doesn't mean it's 688 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: not a big buck, but that just means that it's 689 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: he's probably running, and it could fool you because if 690 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: it's a really big buck and he runs, his track 691 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: will splay that way as well. But so will a 692 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: two year old buck, and so will adult They'll all 693 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: splay like that when they're running and they will almost 694 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: always all hit their dow clause when they're running. That's 695 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: just uh, that nature's traction. I mean they lay back 696 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: on them and they use those do clause for traction 697 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: and and uh and the hoopsplay in soft soil and 698 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: or when they're running to give them the traction to 699 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: give them, you know, stability when they're running. So Um, 700 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: that V shape is a classical example of a deer 701 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: that's moving fast and then that foot displays when it 702 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,919 Speaker 1: hits and um, if it's if it's parallel, then they're 703 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: not most of the time, it's not a running track. 704 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: And you can get a lot better gauge. Again because again, 705 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: like I said, you go back to that, uh use 706 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: a walking track is your guide when you're checking a track. Yeah, 707 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: And for folks who never really looked at tracks or 708 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: paid attention, can you share a few of the other 709 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: things to help someone determine whether it's a walking or 710 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: running track. So you already mentioned display versus non display track. 711 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: You already mentioned the fact that you know, all walking 712 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: buck might have like a two ft stride length. Um, 713 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 1: there's going to be some different things in the snow 714 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: or dirt based off the speed and the jumping of 715 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,919 Speaker 1: the deer too, right, Can you point out a couple 716 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: of things that that that might be worth noticing? Well, 717 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, the biggest thing is is the faster they're 718 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: running or faster they're moving alonger the stride if they'll 719 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: do if they're doing like a trot or something, it'll 720 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: be like a three ft gate uh. And then of 721 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: course you know that no deer is normally doing that 722 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: as a walk. And and then you know from there 723 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: they start running, so they start jumping actually then and 724 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: then you know it could be up to fifteen feet 725 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: or more. You know, when they jump like that, then 726 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: of course you really know that they're not walking. And 727 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: and they really pound the ground hard when they when 728 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: they run like that, so you know again it's it's 729 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: just do you want to look at it deer walking 730 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: uh at ease? Um? And do you like to see 731 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: one that that has is sitting back on its new clause? 732 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: And and it's as as simple as that, um, and 733 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: I have noticed uh from tracking deer two beds and 734 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: in away from beds, they walk different when they're tired 735 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: and when they're rested, just like just like you and I, UM, 736 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: I always get a kick out of it. Um. As 737 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: I was telling you earlier, I get I get quite 738 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: an adrenaline rush when I get in a good track. Um, 739 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: if I don't get that, deer and I and I 740 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: tracked back on my old track. I always laugh at 741 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: myself when I'm coming out because I have to take 742 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: long strides to walk in my track that I did 743 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: when I started out, because now I'm tired. And when 744 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: I started out, I had a little adrenaline rush going. 745 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: So I was taking big, long strides and I always 746 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: have to laugh. You know, wow, I was really you know, 747 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: really walking a big stride. But but that's a good 748 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: lesson because deer are the same way. When deer gets tired, 749 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: they lay back on their feet a little bit more. Uh, 750 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: let's at do Claus shoal Um. When you get a 751 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: big old buck that's really good and tired, he drags 752 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: his feet in an arc shaped motion and and he 753 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: most like just like you and I, when you get 754 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: really tired, you just don't want to lift your feet anymore. 755 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: You know, you just kind of slap your feet forward 756 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 1: if you're walking when you're really exhausted. And so they 757 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: walk different and and it'll surprise you how much different 758 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: that track will look coming into a bed and then 759 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: he lays down there for a few hours, he gets rested, 760 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: and he gets up and he walks away. There's been 761 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: times when it's been so different that it's like I 762 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: can't even believe that I'm on the same deer. You know, 763 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: they stand back on their toes again, um, and they 764 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: don't do clause, don't hit very hard, and of course 765 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: when they're standing on their tiptoes more, the track isn't 766 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: it big. It's like, wow, you know, it looks like 767 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: two different deer, but it has to be the same 768 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,439 Speaker 1: deer because you walked in, late, down and got left. 769 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 1: Now is that something that you can identify accurately enough 770 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: while you're actually tracking a deer that you can be 771 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,359 Speaker 1: like in your mind say to yourself, oh, based off 772 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: what I'm seeing this track now, it looks like he's 773 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: getting tired. He's probably gonna bed soon, so I'm gonna 774 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 1: slow down or something like that, Like do you actually 775 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: use that to change how your track and hunting? Or 776 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: is that something that you know you've noticed but you 777 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: can't say with enough you know surety in the moment, 778 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: If it's if it's indicative of one thing or another. No, 779 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: But I think I pick a lot of tired tracks 780 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: because of that. You know, I think the track just 781 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: looks bigger because they're tired, and they're laying back on 782 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: their feet more and dragging their feet a little bit more, 783 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: and and you know, they're walking a little more sloppy, 784 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: which gives a little bit bigger looking tracks. So I 785 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: think that just by the nature of the beast, do 786 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: you you end up picking those tracks that makes sense? 787 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: Do you ever do you ever try to identify individual 788 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: deer and and come back and say, Okay, I think 789 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: this is that same buck. It's the buck that has 790 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: a little chip off his right side or something like that. 791 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever looked at them that closely? I pay attention, 792 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: uh more soul for the time I'm tracking him now 793 00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: if if it's right right rear hook is the outside 794 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: of the hoof hooks a lot longer and hooks around 795 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 1: a little bit um. I try to make a mental 796 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: note of that, because then when I get messed up 797 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: on the track or whatever we'm I'm trying to sort 798 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: things out a little bit, and I get back on 799 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: the track again, I'm following it and I get a 800 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: nice good imprint, I can say, oh, yees yees, I 801 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: know this is the same deer. Now. The one thing 802 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: you've got to be careful of is from season the 803 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 1: season is a hoof is like a fingernail. It keeps 804 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: growing and they keep wearing it off. So if that 805 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: buck chip set hoof, it's going to grow out. It 806 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: doesn't stay like that forever. So you've got to be 807 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: a little careful about, you know, saying, well, next year, well, 808 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: I see a track here, but it doesn't look he 809 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: doesn't have a chip in that, you know, on his 810 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: left foot, so that can't be him. Well that they're 811 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: they're like a fingernail. They keep growing and they keep 812 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: wearing them down. So uh, that might not be the case, 813 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: you know, so you can't really judge by that. But 814 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,919 Speaker 1: the toll, the toll is configuration will stay the same, 815 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: you know, if they If his toes are really hooked 816 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: on the outside on the right foot rear, he will 817 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: have that the next year as well. That that won't 818 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: change that. That's pretty that's just the way that his 819 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: feet growing. Maybe the way he walks, or you know, 820 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: whatever his his skeleton or structure or whatever I don't 821 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: you know genetics, so yeah, and you do. You do 822 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,400 Speaker 1: want to try to keep track of that, you know. 823 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: Unfortunately for me, UM, I live at Center, Wisconsin, and 824 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: I and I hunt north. You know, my closest spots 825 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,839 Speaker 1: are like three four hours away, so I don't get 826 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: to hunt. You know, I shot a lot of big 827 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: bucks over the years, and I don't have time to hunt, 828 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: so I don't get I don't get a chance to 829 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,800 Speaker 1: get familiar with deer um. It's always been something I 830 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: hoped I would be able to do at some point 831 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: in my life. Does actually live closer to where A hunt, 832 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: so I could become more familiar with specific deer um. 833 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: Knowing what I know, it would be an interesting experience 834 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: for me too to be more familiar with my dear 835 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: and actually hut specific gear and see what the results 836 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: would be. I kind of know, I think what would happen, 837 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 1: but it would be interesting to actually put it to 838 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: practice and see, you know, what the results would be. No, 839 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: I'm should that be fascinating? To take that kind to 840 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: the next level would be really interesting when you're when 841 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: you're on a track. Now A few other things I've 842 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: heard some people mentioned when they're trying to identify or confirm, 843 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: like whether or not they're sure this is a big 844 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: buck track. Um. I've heard some people look for like 845 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: antler imprints in the snow. I've heard some people to 846 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: talk about paying attention to the width of the gate um, 847 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: so the space in between the left and right legs. 848 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can really supposedly a really big mature buck 849 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: might have a wider um gate. Is there any truth 850 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: to that kind of thing? Have you noticed anything like 851 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: that and had that help you? Uh, the width if 852 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: it's a really really big one, I mean, if it's 853 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: if it's and you just don't run into those up 854 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: north anymore. Let's say one that would probably maybe push 855 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: the scales dressed at two fifty or something to thirty five. Uh, 856 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 1: it gets a big, big body like that, you're gonna 857 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: definitely see uh some with between the tracks. But I 858 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: don't usually use it as a guide all that much. 859 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: Most of the deer I shoot anymore across the board 860 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: a late post rut or whatever, you know, like during 861 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: rifle season Thanksgiving, let's say, use it as a guideline. 862 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,799 Speaker 1: These deer are rundown. Most of these deer are going 863 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 1: to push the scales about. Um, I've had a something 864 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: that was sold run down one. Um, they they're they're 865 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: just you just don't see those big, you know, two 866 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,879 Speaker 1: forty thirty pound box like that anymore. And if you'd 867 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 1: seen one like that, yes, you would see that in 868 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: the track he would have a wide gate. But I 869 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: have seen small, young deer with a wide gate. So 870 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: I don't go by the width all that much. I 871 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: know there's a lot of talk out there about that, 872 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 1: but I just really don't go by with all that 873 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: much um length. When they're walking, I do pay attention 874 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 1: to that, but again, you know, it goes back to 875 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: what I said earlier. If they're walking and they're tired, 876 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: or if they're walking and they're excited, um, that that 877 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: length of their stride is going to change. And uh 878 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: so again, you know, I can't really tell us that 879 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,439 Speaker 1: deer was excited when he was walking, or if he's 880 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,839 Speaker 1: rested up when he's walking. So you know, maybe he's 881 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 1: taking an extra two inch stride because he's really anxious 882 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: to get somewhere, you know, And then maybe his stride 883 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: isn't is long. Maybe he's a really good buck, but 884 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: his stride is three inches shorter because he's just exhausted, 885 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: you know. So those are things that I don't put 886 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: a lot of stock into. I'll tell you what I 887 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: do put a lot of stock can do. How they 888 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,799 Speaker 1: walk through the country. A big buck walks through the 889 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: country a lot different than a doll or a young buck. 890 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: They all have their own way of walking through country. 891 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: When you're on a really good buck, it's hard for 892 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: me to put in the words, but you know it 893 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 1: because he always takes the easiest route. It's always easy. 894 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,439 Speaker 1: It's always almost premeditated. And and I shouldn't say always, 895 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: uh uh, almost always it is premeditated. He knows where 896 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 1: he's going. That buck has been through their fifty two 897 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: hundred times before in the past. He knows exactly where 898 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: he's going. He knows exactly where he has to get 899 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,360 Speaker 1: to get through the cross to that next area he 900 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,879 Speaker 1: wants to go to. He knows when to come out 901 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: to the snowmobile trail where it's easy walking so he 902 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: can get around the swamp and he doesn't have to 903 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: try to walk through the swamp. Um a good case. 904 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 1: At point I was following him last year, he's walking. 905 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: He went to the snowmobile trail, walk down the snowmobile 906 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: trail and then ducked into the woods. And I thought, well, 907 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: that's odd, but it wasn't because right up ahead it 908 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: got really wet and it was all under water there. 909 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: And he knew before he even got there that if 910 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: he cuts off to the left, that he could walk 911 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: right along the edge. It was a hump that he 912 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:19,879 Speaker 1: could walk on all the way to get through there. 913 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: So I know that deer knew that deer has been 914 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,919 Speaker 1: through there a bunch of times before, because he didn't 915 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: have to come up to the water, didn't make a decision. 916 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: He made a decision before he came to the water, 917 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,799 Speaker 1: so he knew how to get through there. He's been 918 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: through there so many times before. This is a sign 919 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,840 Speaker 1: of a really good buck. Um. You got a tree leaning, 920 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: he won't duck underneath it or jump over it, He'll 921 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: walk around it. Um. He he looks through that the 922 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: easiest path through an area. Um, it's amazing when you 923 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: go on some of these big bucks and they take 924 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: you through an area and then you cut off the 925 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 1: deer and you say, well where am I and we 926 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: check my GPS. I'm gonna walk out to the road. Well, 927 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: if I cut straight that way, I could get back 928 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: to the road a lot easier. And when I do 929 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: that every time, I always say, you dummy, don't ever 930 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,359 Speaker 1: do that again, because that deer knew the easiest way 931 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: through that area. And when I try to take the 932 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: quickest path or the straightest path through, it's hell. I mean, 933 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 1: it's nasty, and I have to keep relearning that. Have 934 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: you know that that same lesson over and over and 935 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: over again. That deer went there for a reason because 936 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,879 Speaker 1: he knows the easiest way through. Um, they'll be going 937 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: along and all of a sudden they'll cut off to 938 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: the left and they'll be cutting through some thick brush 939 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 1: and stuff, and you'll be thinking, why are they doing this? 940 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: This doesn't make any sense, And boom they'll pop out 941 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: onto a beaver pond right at the damn and he'll 942 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,440 Speaker 1: walk right across it. So what didn't make any sense 943 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: to me beforehand made perfect sense. Now he knew where 944 00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,200 Speaker 1: that beaver dad was. He knew exactly where it was, 945 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 1: and he knew if he was gonna get through that area, 946 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:06,399 Speaker 1: that was the best way across that water. So he 947 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,800 Speaker 1: makes that Hell, he'll push his way through some stuff 948 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,719 Speaker 1: rough stuff just to get to that crossing. Yeah, and 949 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,799 Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's amazing. And you watch this happen 950 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: again and again and again and again these deer, and 951 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,680 Speaker 1: and the more mature the buck is, the more you'll 952 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: tell that in the track, you'll see that he absolutely 953 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,840 Speaker 1: knows where he's gonna go. He knows where he's gonna go, 954 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,240 Speaker 1: and he knows why he's going there, and he takes 955 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 1: you on a really easy path through the area. And 956 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: you just really get that sense. After you follow enough deer, 957 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: you'll know when you're on a really good buck. You'll say, man, 958 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: this is a nice track. Then you start following a 959 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: track and you see how he runs the country and 960 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 1: it won't be long, and you'll say, this is a 961 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: really good buck. Yeah. You mentioned beaver dam crossings. I 962 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:57,400 Speaker 1: heard you talk about this before where you you mentioned 963 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,319 Speaker 1: that you've seen beaver dam crossings are be in particular 964 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: good spots to hunt because deer identify that almost as 965 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,560 Speaker 1: a bridge across water. So even for someone who's not tracking, 966 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 1: but someone who's maybe be gonna pop up a tree stand, 967 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: is that something you you can on that you've seen 968 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,440 Speaker 1: him being a hot spot in certain areas don't. Absolutely Yeah, 969 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,040 Speaker 1: and then I'll take that one step further. UM use 970 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,320 Speaker 1: your wood skills. UM, get in there. Check that wherever 971 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,520 Speaker 1: there's a beaver dam, there's mud because it's water, it's wet. 972 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 1: Go in there and look for signing that a big 973 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 1: buck is crossing. Go look for some big tracks in 974 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,320 Speaker 1: that mud. If there's a big buck using that crossing, 975 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,359 Speaker 1: he's gonna leave some tracks there. And if there's big 976 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: buck tracks crossing hunted, that's a high percentage spot. That's 977 00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: a very good spot. I killed a really nice tent 978 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,800 Speaker 1: point or bear ground up in Minnesota that way you're about. 979 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. Four years ago, my area had dried up. 980 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I just wasn't seeing any deer in my area, 981 00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,359 Speaker 1: and I didn't have a snow and I thought, well, 982 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,319 Speaker 1: let me let me check some maps. So I started 983 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: looking at maps. Found an area aerial photos you can 984 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,040 Speaker 1: see beaver dams on them really easy, and and uh, 985 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,759 Speaker 1: I found a spot where there was a couple of 986 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 1: beaver dams on a river. Drove back in there, had 987 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:11,919 Speaker 1: to push through brush with my truck like you don't 988 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,720 Speaker 1: believed to get back in there. And then I walked 989 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: back in and got along the bottom of that river, 990 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,880 Speaker 1: along that river edge, there was a buck running up 991 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,919 Speaker 1: and down that that edge, tearing the heck out of everything, trees, robbed, 992 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,880 Speaker 1: scrapes everything. I mean, he was just really active. And 993 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: that's a very good sign of a buck that's just 994 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,200 Speaker 1: just made it. He's he's old enough. Now he's like 995 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,160 Speaker 1: a t's like a teenage boy. I'm big and strong now, 996 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,719 Speaker 1: puffing his chest out. I'm gonna act tough, and they'll 997 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,359 Speaker 1: start ripping a lot of stuff up. Really really old 998 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,480 Speaker 1: buck usually doesn't do a lot of that run activity. Um, 999 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,560 Speaker 1: but a young one dis feeling as though, so really 1000 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 1: do that. And he had that hole that holes edge 1001 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,760 Speaker 1: of that river, tore up on one on that one side, 1002 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,799 Speaker 1: all the way up and down, and there was two 1003 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 1: beaver damn crossings. I had three days the season left, 1004 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,799 Speaker 1: and I went down to the river edge and I 1005 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: sat there, and I had a hundred fifty yards to 1006 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,600 Speaker 1: one crossing and one seventy five to the other. And 1007 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,320 Speaker 1: I sat there for two and it was two and 1008 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,360 Speaker 1: a half days. The first day, it was half a 1009 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: day after I scouted it. I didn't even I didn't 1010 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,880 Speaker 1: worry about all the scent day laid or nothing. I 1011 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: was there, I hunted. I sat there for half a day, 1012 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,359 Speaker 1: didn't see a deer. Sat there for the next day 1013 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: all day long, and a Dolana fawn crossed one of 1014 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,879 Speaker 1: the beaver damns. The third day, which was the last 1015 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,360 Speaker 1: day of season, I grunted up to that beaver damn 1016 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,359 Speaker 1: at doon he came. I picked up my grunt call 1017 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,279 Speaker 1: at doing and I blew it and he was happy 1018 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: to be on the other side of the river. And 1019 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,160 Speaker 1: he came right out to the beaver dam and he 1020 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: stood right there and I shot up. So he was 1021 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,239 Speaker 1: and he was exactly what I thought he was. I'm 1022 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: sure that was the same buck that was doing that. 1023 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,960 Speaker 1: He was a really nice tent pointer. Uh three and 1024 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 1: a half year old, maybe four and a half, but 1025 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Um, just a really nice, decent, 1026 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 1: really good buck. Not a monster, but a really good 1027 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,880 Speaker 1: buck and a few Sorry I was gonna say I 1028 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: might have missed it. But did you say that you 1029 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 1: found a track too when you were looking at all 1030 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: that rub, all those rubs and rutt sign or were 1031 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: you did you make the decisions that they're simply by 1032 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: the fact that you knew that the beer damns were 1033 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,000 Speaker 1: there and you saw the sign or was there a 1034 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,399 Speaker 1: track that said, okay, yeah, for sure, there's a nice 1035 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,840 Speaker 1: buck passing through. Oh yeah, in the in the in 1036 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: the scrapes, there was good tracks. And then uh, the 1037 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,880 Speaker 1: the crossing that I shot him on, I didn't. I 1038 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,839 Speaker 1: didn't see a good track there, but the other one 1039 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,480 Speaker 1: that I was watching as well did have. So I 1040 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,319 Speaker 1: was more expecting him to come out out of the 1041 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,760 Speaker 1: other one. But but he didn't. And it was actually 1042 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,800 Speaker 1: a third beaver damn crossing on that same river, further 1043 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: upstream yet, and that one just didn't have any sign 1044 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,880 Speaker 1: at all. So I just crossed that one off, and 1045 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,520 Speaker 1: I thought, well, I'm gonna watch these two and this this, 1046 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: this determination was made with you know, a quick run 1047 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: through one hour scout of the area I've never been before. 1048 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: You know, I just see all the sign I made 1049 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: a quick determination. I thought, Okay, I'm gonna PLoP down 1050 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 1: in here and I'm gonna stay here for the next 1051 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: I got two and a half days the season left. 1052 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,399 Speaker 1: I know there's a good buck working this, and I'm 1053 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 1: gonna stick here, you know, and I'm just gonna wait 1054 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,920 Speaker 1: it out. So is that a typical is that your 1055 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: typical plan when you don't have snow, you're gonna go 1056 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,239 Speaker 1: into the best looking area based off of terrain and 1057 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,879 Speaker 1: a quick walk through scout and hopefully find a good track. 1058 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,839 Speaker 1: But otherwise without snow, it's it's it's usually a sitting 1059 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,560 Speaker 1: way to fair Or do you ever try to track 1060 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,880 Speaker 1: in dirt and mud? I won't try to track on 1061 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,560 Speaker 1: bare ground. And I'll tell you why. Um, that's during 1062 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,399 Speaker 1: the rut when I'm rife hunting. That's that's the rut. 1063 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: And these bucks, uh, four miles, six miles, eight miles, 1064 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,399 Speaker 1: that's nothing for these deer. There's no way you're gonna 1065 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 1: stay with them that long. There's there's no way that 1066 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna follow a bearer ground track for for three 1067 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,319 Speaker 1: miles um. And then when they start if they hit 1068 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: some areas where you know it's really not soft, you 1069 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,600 Speaker 1: have a heck of a time. A good buckle leave 1070 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,800 Speaker 1: tracks in the leaves and you can follow them. Um, 1071 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,560 Speaker 1: but it's just too time consuming and your your noses 1072 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,160 Speaker 1: to the ground all the time, so you're not even 1073 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,080 Speaker 1: if you did catch up with him, you wouldn't see him. 1074 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean, he'll see you before you see him, because 1075 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,719 Speaker 1: you'll be looking at the ground all the time. So 1076 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,719 Speaker 1: bare ground, I just don't mess with it. But what 1077 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,480 Speaker 1: I do is if I do have bare ground, is 1078 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,600 Speaker 1: I'll go back to these areas where I know there's 1079 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,960 Speaker 1: been a big buck previous years that I've tangled with 1080 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,080 Speaker 1: and and and I'll go sit them out. And that's 1081 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,040 Speaker 1: basically my you know. And then if I don't have 1082 00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: anything to go by, I just get out on foot 1083 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,640 Speaker 1: and I move around. I do a lot of calling, 1084 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: and I look for sign and U sometimes I get luckys. 1085 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,640 Speaker 1: A lot of times I find a dough and heat 1086 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 1: in the area, and of course that area is going 1087 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: to be hot for about a day and a half. 1088 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 1: And uh, I've had good success doing that too. I've 1089 00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,360 Speaker 1: killed I've killed several good bucks doing that, finding finding 1090 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,960 Speaker 1: a dome heat in an area, and and uh it 1091 00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,359 Speaker 1: could be some of the most exciting hunt you'll ever have. 1092 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,399 Speaker 1: A Couple of years ago, I shot a really nice 1093 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,880 Speaker 1: background buck up in Minnesota doing that. There was a 1094 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,360 Speaker 1: dough and heat on a slashing that was about or 1095 00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,640 Speaker 1: two miles back in off the road, and I walked 1096 00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,520 Speaker 1: in there scouting it, ran into bumped a little box, 1097 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of activity, a lot of 1098 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,560 Speaker 1: signing there, and I thought, well, I gotta hunt. This 1099 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,800 Speaker 1: is pretty hot. He came back the next day and 1100 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,000 Speaker 1: by ten o'clock I had my buck on the ground. 1101 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,360 Speaker 1: And before I got out of there that day, I 1102 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,680 Speaker 1: had saw five different bucks and a few hunt where 1103 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,480 Speaker 1: I hunted Minnesota. Five different bucks can be three seasons 1104 00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,000 Speaker 1: worth a hunting. I saw it one day, you know, 1105 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: And and the deer, the buck I shot the bucket shot, 1106 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:54,400 Speaker 1: was chasing a doll and he was split browl eight pointers, 1107 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,480 Speaker 1: so he was actually a ten pointer. He had double 1108 00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:01,000 Speaker 1: split browsed, and there was another buck with him, but 1109 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,400 Speaker 1: he was a better rack. He he was a ten pointer, 1110 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: but he was a younger buck. He had long tie 1111 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: and times, and he was a ten pointer, real dandy buck, 1112 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,880 Speaker 1: but he was younger. And you could tell he wasn't 1113 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,320 Speaker 1: the dominant one because he trailed off on the side 1114 00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,040 Speaker 1: while the u when I shot, was great with the doll, 1115 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,320 Speaker 1: and I opted to actually take the one that didn't 1116 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,120 Speaker 1: have as nice of a rack because I knew he 1117 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: was an older buck and I was sure hoping I'd 1118 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,000 Speaker 1: run into that another one another year, you know. Donder rolder. 1119 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,520 Speaker 1: So he was he was a really good buck and 1120 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:32,439 Speaker 1: he didn't even run away. I shot that one buck. 1121 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,880 Speaker 1: They ran off. The doll came right back through about 1122 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,880 Speaker 1: ten minutes later, and she walked right by me, and 1123 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 1: he walked right by me to the ten pointer. And 1124 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,400 Speaker 1: then when I got down to check out my shot, 1125 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,480 Speaker 1: a little spike buck come running up. He got I 1126 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 1: always gonna poked a little by barrel. He got so 1127 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 1: close to me. But that was you know, that was 1128 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,200 Speaker 1: by in season scouting and getting in there and you 1129 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,920 Speaker 1: know and hitting the ground, uh, you know, checking, just checking, 1130 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,480 Speaker 1: just just staying active and looking. I heard another time 1131 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,360 Speaker 1: you talking about a situation like this where it was 1132 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,520 Speaker 1: a bear ground situation and you you I think, if 1133 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 1: I remember this correctly, you went back in to an 1134 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,960 Speaker 1: area you previously walked. Maybe you're tracking a buck and 1135 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,240 Speaker 1: something you described as rut routes. So these bucks taking 1136 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,120 Speaker 1: specific rout routes that you knew of based off of 1137 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,240 Speaker 1: previous tracking, and you knew too, you know, if you 1138 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,360 Speaker 1: didn't have snow, you'd go back and check something like that. 1139 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,520 Speaker 1: Can you describe what you meant by that? Um? Yeah, 1140 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,360 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly the exact uh story you're talking about. 1141 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,720 Speaker 1: But yes, that's that's exactly you know what I was 1142 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,160 Speaker 1: talking about earlier here. I know where these specific bucks run. 1143 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,680 Speaker 1: And if I don't have a spot, um, you know, 1144 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,960 Speaker 1: if I don't have snow to track, I go right 1145 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,120 Speaker 1: back onto their their runs that they've used from previous youths. 1146 00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,840 Speaker 1: And uh, that's you know again you're talking sucking hundreds 1147 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,040 Speaker 1: of thousands of acres and you're narrowing it down to 1148 01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:07,480 Speaker 1: one trail, you know, And and if that buck happens 1149 01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,680 Speaker 1: to move on that trail, you get a chance. Um. 1150 01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,640 Speaker 1: And that's that's a And you don't find those without 1151 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,920 Speaker 1: without tracking. Um, you know, you just you just don't know. 1152 01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 1: I mean, every edge is good. Any edge could be 1153 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,560 Speaker 1: good in the woods. But there's so many edges that 1154 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,560 Speaker 1: which one do you pick? You know? But if I 1155 01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 1: have a, if I have a let's say I tracked 1156 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:38,280 Speaker 1: the buck to an area last year, and again, UM, 1157 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna add rubs are like fingerprints. When a buck 1158 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: makes a rub on a tree, if you study that 1159 01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 1: rub and he makes another rub somewhere else, you can 1160 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,880 Speaker 1: tell it that's the same buck. Feel rub, the same height, 1161 01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 1: feel pick the same sort of tree. He's got birds 1162 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: on his antlers that rubbed that tree a certain way. Um, 1163 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,560 Speaker 1: you can pretty much tell one buck from another when 1164 01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,280 Speaker 1: you're looking at the rubs. So let's say I go 1165 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:07,960 Speaker 1: in an area and I and I was following a 1166 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,520 Speaker 1: buck through there the year before on snow, and I 1167 01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,360 Speaker 1: go in there on bare ground, and next year because 1168 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,800 Speaker 1: I don't have any snow to track, and I see 1169 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,560 Speaker 1: rubs opened up on that same rub line along that 1170 01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,520 Speaker 1: same route. Well, I know that buck is still alive. 1171 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,200 Speaker 1: I know he's still lives. Yeah, so I'll sit it. 1172 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,720 Speaker 1: And then not only that, while I'm following the deer, 1173 01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm finding places where they are bottleneck down, where they 1174 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 1: do cross. And that's the spots I pick out because 1175 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,200 Speaker 1: I know, if he's coming through anywhere from here to 1176 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,440 Speaker 1: go to there, he's coming through this spot. Um. And 1177 01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:46,240 Speaker 1: you find those again, you find those by track and deer. Um. Seck, 1178 01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,280 Speaker 1: I went, what do I The best spot I ever 1179 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,920 Speaker 1: had in my life. I never hunted. I followed deer 1180 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:53,800 Speaker 1: through there all the time, bucks through there, and it 1181 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,680 Speaker 1: was a crossing like it was unbelievable. And I always 1182 01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,400 Speaker 1: told myself, I gotta sit this crossing sometime because man, 1183 01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,400 Speaker 1: this is every time I chase the deer they come 1184 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,680 Speaker 1: through here. Well, one year I decided I'm gonna actually 1185 01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:06,840 Speaker 1: just put some time in sitting there. I'm gonna just 1186 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take two or three days and just sit 1187 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,320 Speaker 1: there because it's such a good spot. So I walk 1188 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,200 Speaker 1: way back in there, and it was logged out, so 1189 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,240 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, can you believe it? You know, 1190 01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,040 Speaker 1: so I kind of abandoned it. But the one thing 1191 01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't change is the land doesn't change. The tree. 1192 01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,520 Speaker 1: You can cut the trees away, but the land doesn't change. 1193 01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,000 Speaker 1: So oh, let's I don't know. Fast forward three or 1194 01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,520 Speaker 1: four years now. Um, this last season, I said, hey, 1195 01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a walk back in there, and I'm 1196 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:38,920 Speaker 1: gonna see what's going on. I haven't been back there 1197 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 1: for years. So I drew up I could get within 1198 01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,320 Speaker 1: about a half a mile of there, and then parked 1199 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:46,760 Speaker 1: my truck and I walked the rest of the way 1200 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and went on too that slashing where they had cut 1201 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,640 Speaker 1: that out. Come up on top of this big hill 1202 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:54,760 Speaker 1: and I'm looking down in the valley where they always 1203 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 1: came through there every time, and nice stood there and 1204 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,640 Speaker 1: watched for a while grunted if I got call a 1205 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,880 Speaker 1: few times see if anything with shoul Um. And I 1206 01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,640 Speaker 1: walked down in the valley and guess what I found 1207 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:10,520 Speaker 1: one lone really good buck track coming through there. You know, now, 1208 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:15,640 Speaker 1: you know that's that's that those things don't change. I mean, 1209 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,600 Speaker 1: these deer use these some of these. If you find 1210 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:24,120 Speaker 1: a spot like that, those are gold because if your 1211 01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,760 Speaker 1: buck dies, the next buck will come through there too. 1212 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,120 Speaker 1: It's just the way the land funnels. And and you 1213 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,000 Speaker 1: can't sit and look at maps and find those on maps. 1214 01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,240 Speaker 1: I've tried. It just doesn't work that way. You find 1215 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,720 Speaker 1: them by following deer, and then then you have something 1216 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,240 Speaker 1: when you find one of those. If you want to 1217 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,440 Speaker 1: sit all day long, the boy, a spot like that 1218 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:46,760 Speaker 1: is gold. You know. You you take your ground blind 1219 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,760 Speaker 1: in there popping up on top of in that case, 1220 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,840 Speaker 1: they're on top of that hill. You can sit down 1221 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,240 Speaker 1: in that value beautiful. Put a put a pop up 1222 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,360 Speaker 1: ground blind in there, sit in there all day long, 1223 01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,000 Speaker 1: every day, and eat your granola bars or whatever, and 1224 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,520 Speaker 1: just keep watching that crossing. And you know at some 1225 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,360 Speaker 1: time in that week or two weeks that you're sitting there. Uh, 1226 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,840 Speaker 1: chances are a decent bus might come through. Yeah, if 1227 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,440 Speaker 1: that's a kind of honey you want to do, I 1228 01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,880 Speaker 1: mean that and that you can't get better odds in 1229 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:18,960 Speaker 1: that north country. Yeah. Can you describe that area? Like 1230 01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,040 Speaker 1: why was it so? Why did so many deer come 1231 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,160 Speaker 1: through there? I'd love to hear, like the what the 1232 01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,160 Speaker 1: terrain was that funneled that movement? Um, it was a 1233 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:34,520 Speaker 1: combination of several things. Um. One was uh there was 1234 01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:39,320 Speaker 1: two lakes that neck down the land, and then the 1235 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:44,880 Speaker 1: uh potography there was really rolling hills and valleys there, 1236 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,640 Speaker 1: and just the way it laid out, it just brought 1237 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,080 Speaker 1: them right through. And again you know, I mean I 1238 01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,400 Speaker 1: could I can look at maps and find fifty spots 1239 01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,400 Speaker 1: like that, you know, But for some reason that I'm 1240 01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: not seeing when I'm looking at it myself, every deer 1241 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,200 Speaker 1: came through there. I remember I took one. I took 1242 01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:09,040 Speaker 1: one two miles away from there. I started once on 1243 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,240 Speaker 1: a track and he started heading in that direction, and 1244 01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:13,840 Speaker 1: I got a half mile in and he was still 1245 01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,600 Speaker 1: going that way. And then I got a mile in 1246 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,480 Speaker 1: and he's still going that way. And I got about 1247 01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,240 Speaker 1: a mile and a half into it, and I'm thinking 1248 01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,760 Speaker 1: I wonder if he's gonna go through that funnel, you know, 1249 01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,720 Speaker 1: through that little that little valley there, and sure it 1250 01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,360 Speaker 1: is Hackey. There's two miles away when I started up 1251 01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,120 Speaker 1: because where he took me right through that spot, you know, 1252 01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:33,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's and and that was every year that 1253 01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,800 Speaker 1: came through there, every deer. Uh, they always ended up 1254 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,600 Speaker 1: funneling through that. And it's still good today. Uh if 1255 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,760 Speaker 1: a person wanted to go and sit hunt, Um, I 1256 01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:46,640 Speaker 1: don't know a better spot to take. Try to take 1257 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,520 Speaker 1: a deer. You know, it's it's it's tailor made, and 1258 01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,240 Speaker 1: it's beautiful because nobody knows about it. Nobody knows their 1259 01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,680 Speaker 1: way in there. That they closed the logging roads off, 1260 01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:01,200 Speaker 1: you wouldn't know what came in the back way to 1261 01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,400 Speaker 1: find that spot. I had a heck of a time 1262 01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:07,800 Speaker 1: finding it, and I knew it was there. I had 1263 01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,320 Speaker 1: to keep looking at my my aerial photos to locate 1264 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,160 Speaker 1: my way back in there from the back side because 1265 01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:18,160 Speaker 1: the roads were it was all it was a mess, 1266 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: and the roads are blocked off, and you know all 1267 01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,720 Speaker 1: loggy roads were plowed in so you can't get through them. 1268 01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:27,280 Speaker 1: And and uh, if I would try to just use 1269 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,160 Speaker 1: my senses to get back in there. I never would 1270 01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,080 Speaker 1: have found it. So it's a spot that's gonna sit there, 1271 01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,640 Speaker 1: and it's gonna just it's gonna sit there for years, 1272 01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,400 Speaker 1: and I'll bet you won't see a hunter back in there. Nobody. 1273 01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,600 Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna go in there. You're hard to find that 1274 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,120 Speaker 1: kind of spot without, like you said, actually following a 1275 01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 1: buck that did it and seeing them do it time 1276 01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,640 Speaker 1: and time again. Um. And that that that kind of 1277 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:52,880 Speaker 1: brings me back to something you talked about right at 1278 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,480 Speaker 1: the top, which was just how much you can learn 1279 01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,080 Speaker 1: from tracking deer um. And I want to drill more 1280 01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: into that. I didn't it to initially. But where What 1281 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,520 Speaker 1: are some the other things you've seen? After watching so 1282 01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,919 Speaker 1: many bucks do what they do, have you identified any 1283 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,520 Speaker 1: trends or patterns that you can now say, well, I've 1284 01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,200 Speaker 1: seen so many, Dear do X, it's kind of safe 1285 01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,320 Speaker 1: to say that most bucks like to travel with the 1286 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,000 Speaker 1: wind this way, or most bucks like to travel I 1287 01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 1: don't know. Is there anything like that that stands out 1288 01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,640 Speaker 1: to you, like big AHAs that you can now point 1289 01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,040 Speaker 1: to after all these years at tracking them. Yeah, the 1290 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:30,640 Speaker 1: wind is a very I'm glad you brought that up, 1291 01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,880 Speaker 1: because that's a really, really good point. I Um, when 1292 01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,320 Speaker 1: I was younger, I used to read every magazine I 1293 01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,960 Speaker 1: could to try to figure out dear and try to understand, 1294 01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, I just would soak up everything I could. 1295 01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,840 Speaker 1: In one year, they come out with an article bucks 1296 01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,840 Speaker 1: travel with the wind during the ruck. And in the 1297 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,480 Speaker 1: next year go and behold, another article would come out, 1298 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,240 Speaker 1: bucks travel against the wind during the ruck. And then 1299 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,160 Speaker 1: the next year it would come out with bucks travel 1300 01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,720 Speaker 1: quartering into the wind. And they always had a theory 1301 01:07:57,840 --> 01:07:59,440 Speaker 1: as to why they were doing it and what was 1302 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:05,240 Speaker 1: going on, and and here's what happens. And I don't 1303 01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,360 Speaker 1: want to pick on people or whatever, but these guys 1304 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:14,360 Speaker 1: are making determinations based upon a very small yards snapshot 1305 01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:19,720 Speaker 1: of that bucks eight mile walk that night. Okay, they're 1306 01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,920 Speaker 1: sitting in a tree stand and this buck comes walking 1307 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:28,160 Speaker 1: by them, they test the wind, and they make a determination. 1308 01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:33,000 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, if the next buck they see follows the 1309 01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:38,040 Speaker 1: same pattern, now they've already just they've already convinced themselves 1310 01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,719 Speaker 1: that that always do the bucks always do that buck 1311 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,400 Speaker 1: always walks into the wind. If he saw two bucks 1312 01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,599 Speaker 1: in the role walking into the wind. But he only 1313 01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:49,920 Speaker 1: saw one yards of that DearS six mile trail. Now, 1314 01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,680 Speaker 1: when you're following, you're tracking them, do you get to 1315 01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,960 Speaker 1: see the whole six mile trail? And the determination I've 1316 01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,439 Speaker 1: made by checking the you know, knowing what the wind 1317 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,800 Speaker 1: was they for and watching the way they walk and 1318 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,120 Speaker 1: how they do it and what they go. Bucks go 1319 01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,720 Speaker 1: wherever they damn well want to go, and they don't 1320 01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,840 Speaker 1: care about the wind one bit. If the buck is 1321 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,920 Speaker 1: here and he wants to go over there, he goes. 1322 01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,080 Speaker 1: He goes over there. And and if he's here and 1323 01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,240 Speaker 1: he wants to go over there and he's been there before, 1324 01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:20,560 Speaker 1: which he has been, he'll go the same way he 1325 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,960 Speaker 1: went to time before and the time before, and the 1326 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,720 Speaker 1: time before and the time before. And it doesn't matter 1327 01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,760 Speaker 1: which way the wind is going. Now, I'm not going 1328 01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,760 Speaker 1: to tell you that deer don't use the wind, because bucks, 1329 01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,200 Speaker 1: big bucks are using the wind all the time. A 1330 01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,960 Speaker 1: big buck may circle downwind of of an area to 1331 01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,080 Speaker 1: send check for doults. If he knows there's a dough 1332 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,519 Speaker 1: betting area there, he may set check if there's if 1333 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,240 Speaker 1: he has assumes that there's some kind of danger, or 1334 01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:47,800 Speaker 1: be scared a lot of times they'll circle to get 1335 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,240 Speaker 1: down winto that. They'll use that their nose to to 1336 01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,360 Speaker 1: win things. So they're using their nose, and they will 1337 01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:57,120 Speaker 1: use their nose on occasion more so than others. But 1338 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:03,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't they don't use the wind as determining factor 1339 01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:05,639 Speaker 1: as to where they're going to go. And it's simple 1340 01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:08,639 Speaker 1: that this logic has been used many years already. If 1341 01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:10,640 Speaker 1: that's the case, all of our deer would end up 1342 01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:15,519 Speaker 1: in California because we have a we have a westerly wind, right, Okay, 1343 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:17,840 Speaker 1: for the most part, we have westerly wind. So if 1344 01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:19,920 Speaker 1: if the deer had to travel into the wind all 1345 01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the time, eventually they'd all make their way to California, 1346 01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, because they'd have to keep going into windy 1347 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:29,920 Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a very good point. And 1348 01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:32,960 Speaker 1: like you said, everybody likes to kind of postulate about 1349 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,200 Speaker 1: what they think bucks are doing based off of a 1350 01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:38,479 Speaker 1: little snapshot as you described, and that's uh, that is 1351 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: the downfall of watching a deer just for a short 1352 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,519 Speaker 1: period time versus walking for so long. What about um, 1353 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:52,400 Speaker 1: what about betting areas? This is another specific scenario where 1354 01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: a lot of folks like to theorize Um, you know, 1355 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,760 Speaker 1: I know you're active on the hunting beasts. A thing 1356 01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,760 Speaker 1: that Dan likes to talk about a lot is how 1357 01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:02,000 Speaker 1: lots of times heeps a buck's well jay hook into 1358 01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:03,720 Speaker 1: a betting year. It go down wind of the spot 1359 01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:05,840 Speaker 1: where they want to bed and then work their way 1360 01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,920 Speaker 1: into that location. Have you ever noticed anything like that? Yeah, 1361 01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:14,000 Speaker 1: a buck well more than likely do a jayhook before 1362 01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,080 Speaker 1: he uh, before he lays down. Um. I got my 1363 01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,600 Speaker 1: own theory on that. I know. Dan postulates that that 1364 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,479 Speaker 1: they circled down the wind of the betting area so 1365 01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,559 Speaker 1: that they can send check the betting area before they 1366 01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,559 Speaker 1: go in there to lay down. Um. And that may 1367 01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:34,519 Speaker 1: be true, especially in what the type of hunting he does. Um, 1368 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:39,160 Speaker 1: he's hunting oftentimes early season, and it's a bed to 1369 01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,240 Speaker 1: feed pattern that this book is on, and he's more 1370 01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,320 Speaker 1: than likely going back to the same bed that he 1371 01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:50,200 Speaker 1: used for the last months every day. Okay, I'm hunting 1372 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,280 Speaker 1: here in the North Country and I'm hunting deer during 1373 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: the rut. Um they jay hook. But I think the 1374 01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,479 Speaker 1: reason that jay hook is different, and and my thought 1375 01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,560 Speaker 1: process says is I think that jay hook so that 1376 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,320 Speaker 1: if a predator is following their set trail. It leads 1377 01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:10,040 Speaker 1: the predator past them, and they can see the predator 1378 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,240 Speaker 1: and get up and leave before the predator makes the 1379 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,439 Speaker 1: tire jay hook and they're gone. That gives them, That 1380 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:22,439 Speaker 1: gives them an opportunity two see if something's following their track, 1381 01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,040 Speaker 1: and then they can just get up and take off. 1382 01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,200 Speaker 1: And believe me, I've been that predator and I've been 1383 01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:32,599 Speaker 1: made a fool out of a lot of times. So um, yes, 1384 01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:34,560 Speaker 1: they do like the jayhook. It's like a dog. I 1385 01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:35,920 Speaker 1: don't know if you have a dog or not, but 1386 01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:37,840 Speaker 1: almost every dog before they lay down, they got to 1387 01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,400 Speaker 1: make a circle. I don't know why that is. They 1388 01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,519 Speaker 1: have to circle around. Why does a dog circle around 1389 01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,559 Speaker 1: every time he's gonna lay down. I have no idea, 1390 01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, but they do. But it's a tendency that 1391 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,000 Speaker 1: bucks do have, you know, deer do have that. They 1392 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:49,800 Speaker 1: like to do that that jay hook and then they 1393 01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,200 Speaker 1: like to lay down, which if you're tracking, is a 1394 01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,800 Speaker 1: very good important lesson to remember because they're jim hook 1395 01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,600 Speaker 1: could be pretty big, uh, you know, fifty yards or 1396 01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,320 Speaker 1: sol um. So when you're tracking a deer, if you're 1397 01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,000 Speaker 1: not watching left and right all the time, you're gonna 1398 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,519 Speaker 1: miss them. Um, they're not going to be in front 1399 01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:09,200 Speaker 1: of you. They're gonna be off to the left or right. 1400 01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:11,760 Speaker 1: So if you're not watching that when they do their 1401 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,920 Speaker 1: jay hook, they'll they'll get away. They'll they'll jump up 1402 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:16,280 Speaker 1: and run away and you won't even know they go, 1403 01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:20,040 Speaker 1: they're gone, and then you'll come across the bed. Right. Yeah, 1404 01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,439 Speaker 1: that's a good, a good thing to be aware for sure. 1405 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:28,080 Speaker 1: Are there are there any other things like this, whether 1406 01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,559 Speaker 1: it be a commonly held belief like the deer walk 1407 01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:33,040 Speaker 1: with the one in their faces that you've kind of 1408 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,800 Speaker 1: debunked based off of what you've seen, or anything else 1409 01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,600 Speaker 1: like that that that stands out to other than these 1410 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,360 Speaker 1: two examples we just talked through. Yeah, here's a good one. 1411 01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 1: If people are gonna laugh at this. Big Bucks aren't 1412 01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:50,519 Speaker 1: very smart And I thought you friends up to it. 1413 01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,680 Speaker 1: So you know, it's always that there's that hesitation. It's 1414 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,880 Speaker 1: like they're not you know, they're not very smart. They've 1415 01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,439 Speaker 1: learned how to they learn how to survive, but they're 1416 01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:03,240 Speaker 1: not very smart, aren't And and being human, we we 1417 01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,519 Speaker 1: try to give them a lot more credit. We try 1418 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,599 Speaker 1: to give them the ability to think and reason and logic, 1419 01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:14,320 Speaker 1: and they don't. They just react. They'd react to stimulus 1420 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,840 Speaker 1: and that's it. They're just they're just animals that react 1421 01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:21,519 Speaker 1: and and they're they're good at surviving, but they're not smart. 1422 01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:23,880 Speaker 1: They don't think. If they if a buck could think 1423 01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:27,240 Speaker 1: and reason like we would, we'd never kill them. I 1424 01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:29,599 Speaker 1: mean they would if they were as smart as we were. 1425 01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:33,680 Speaker 1: Unless they're stupid as unless they're foolish, they would never die. 1426 01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,000 Speaker 1: You never, you you'd never catch them, you know, uh, 1427 01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:42,920 Speaker 1: they would, But they just have tendencies survival tendencies that 1428 01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:46,599 Speaker 1: that keep them alive. Um, but don't give them too 1429 01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:49,320 Speaker 1: much credit. You know, they're they're not all that smart. 1430 01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,880 Speaker 1: They're not. They don't think in reason and logic. Yeah. 1431 01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,439 Speaker 1: The unfortunate thing about that is that we do think 1432 01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,720 Speaker 1: and use logic, and we still screw up more times 1433 01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:04,479 Speaker 1: than that. Yeah, here's my classical example was people like 1434 01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:08,920 Speaker 1: to give dear human traits like drive by somebody's house 1435 01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,760 Speaker 1: and you'll see it a lawn, ornaments a deer, and 1436 01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,000 Speaker 1: it's always a family group. It's a bucket, door, want 1437 01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:17,280 Speaker 1: a fawn? Right? When do we ever? Have you ever 1438 01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,320 Speaker 1: seen a bucket, a door, and fawn together in the woods, 1439 01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,599 Speaker 1: never not happening, never happened. No, that's not their way. 1440 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:31,040 Speaker 1: But we want to make a human. That's hence, uh, 1441 01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:37,160 Speaker 1: the whole Bandi scenario and all that stuff. Yeah, what 1442 01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:39,679 Speaker 1: other tricks like this have you kind of are not tricks? 1443 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:43,280 Speaker 1: But UM, I'm wondering as a as a big woods 1444 01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:47,160 Speaker 1: hunter sometimes from a tree stand. UM, I've always noticed 1445 01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:52,559 Speaker 1: it's hard to identify anyway to to pattern deer movement 1446 01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:54,600 Speaker 1: in a scenario where they're just isn't a whole lot 1447 01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:56,479 Speaker 1: of terrain change? I mean you mentioned one of the 1448 01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,880 Speaker 1: things that being just edges. Um. Is there anything else 1449 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:04,519 Speaker 1: you've found that that directs deer travel that you're seeing? 1450 01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:07,000 Speaker 1: You know a lot of these buck tracks falling along 1451 01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,240 Speaker 1: or is there any kind of edge is better than another? Um, 1452 01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:12,600 Speaker 1: any kind of that kind of thing, or I don't know, 1453 01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:14,680 Speaker 1: like a little high points in the big in a 1454 01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:18,519 Speaker 1: big woods area or um. Any other features that are 1455 01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,840 Speaker 1: worth thinking about whether we're gonna track one or sit 1456 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,960 Speaker 1: over one that might be worth looking for. Well, rubs 1457 01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,960 Speaker 1: are a good indication that there's a good buck using that. Um. 1458 01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,439 Speaker 1: If you have perennial rubs and you can kind of 1459 01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,960 Speaker 1: tell that it's the same deer, especially if there's fresh 1460 01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,439 Speaker 1: ones from this year, you know that buck is using 1461 01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:43,240 Speaker 1: that edge. Um. And there people find it hard to believe, 1462 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,679 Speaker 1: but bucks picked their roads and they stick to their roots. 1463 01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:50,519 Speaker 1: And then if that buck dies or if there's other 1464 01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,200 Speaker 1: bucks in that area, each buck has his own set 1465 01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,800 Speaker 1: of routes that he made. Now sometimes they use the 1466 01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,559 Speaker 1: same edges, you know, because it's just a natural funnel 1467 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,040 Speaker 1: in the area. Like I was telling you about that 1468 01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,680 Speaker 1: one spot where all the bucks seem to come through there. Um. 1469 01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,280 Speaker 1: But they have their own paths and when once they 1470 01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,680 Speaker 1: once they're taken out, once they die or whatever, the 1471 01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,760 Speaker 1: other buck doesn't take over his paths. He has his 1472 01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:17,080 Speaker 1: own paths as well. Um. So you have to use 1473 01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:19,639 Speaker 1: like rubs as an indication. That's a very good indication, 1474 01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:23,800 Speaker 1: um that he's using that edge and and and to 1475 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,960 Speaker 1: be that would be a good edge to hunt because 1476 01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,080 Speaker 1: you know bucks are you know, or a buck is 1477 01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:32,599 Speaker 1: making rubs along that edge. Um. That's probably the number 1478 01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:36,120 Speaker 1: one indication looking for tracks, uh, look for big tracks, 1479 01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,840 Speaker 1: which when you can where you can if you find 1480 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,559 Speaker 1: if you're following along an edge and you you find 1481 01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,240 Speaker 1: a spot where it soft and you see something that 1482 01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:47,320 Speaker 1: really nice buck tracks coming through there. Um, you know 1483 01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,280 Speaker 1: that buck is using that edge. It's a good place 1484 01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:52,840 Speaker 1: to hunt. Um. There's a million edges out there. So 1485 01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:55,600 Speaker 1: if you can't find some indication that tells you that 1486 01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,120 Speaker 1: a good buck is using it, um, it's just not 1487 01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,960 Speaker 1: a good And here's another user, huge mistake. I see 1488 01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people make. They sit at home now 1489 01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,920 Speaker 1: with with all this technology we have, and they pour 1490 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,639 Speaker 1: over late night, uh, over these maps and they look 1491 01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:14,519 Speaker 1: at these aerial photos and up to northern Wisconsin, and 1492 01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:17,679 Speaker 1: they find us two lakes. Like I was telling you about, 1493 01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,519 Speaker 1: like that situation, I added a bottle that coming through there, 1494 01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, oh my god, look at this. 1495 01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:28,040 Speaker 1: There's five acres above it and there's fifteen acres below it. 1496 01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,080 Speaker 1: And if the deer wants to come through, they have 1497 01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,800 Speaker 1: to come through there. They have to, Okay, And then 1498 01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:35,479 Speaker 1: they go in there and they hunt. Well, guess what, 1499 01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,439 Speaker 1: First of all, somebody else has already found that, and 1500 01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:44,360 Speaker 1: it's probably been hunted perennially for fifty years. Okay. Um. 1501 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:48,760 Speaker 1: Usually the mature bucks know about that already. They know 1502 01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,639 Speaker 1: where they're being hunted, especially like Wisconsin. When there's they'll 1503 01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:54,519 Speaker 1: throw a bait down in there. Tool those those bucks 1504 01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:59,680 Speaker 1: avoid those spots like the plague. Um. And every year 1505 01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:01,720 Speaker 1: something he falls for that same trap, and they hunt 1506 01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,280 Speaker 1: that same spot again and again and again and again. 1507 01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:13,080 Speaker 1: You know. So, just because it's a good funnel doesn't 1508 01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:16,320 Speaker 1: mean it's worth hunting. What makes it worth hunting is 1509 01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:18,320 Speaker 1: if you know a big buck is coming through there. 1510 01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:21,920 Speaker 1: I'd rather take a crappy looking funnel on a map 1511 01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:28,160 Speaker 1: that shows good rub line and tracks, then a funnel 1512 01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:31,479 Speaker 1: that looks like it's funneling down thousands of acres into 1513 01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,080 Speaker 1: one little spot. Um. Again, you gotta there's gotta be 1514 01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,559 Speaker 1: a buck using. Again in order for you to shoot 1515 01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:40,800 Speaker 1: a big buck there. You can't shoot one there if 1516 01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:45,400 Speaker 1: he ain't using. It comes down to that. On the 1517 01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,960 Speaker 1: ground scouting, Yes, you ought to get in there. And 1518 01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:51,680 Speaker 1: and here's another thing that, Um, don't be afraid to 1519 01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:56,360 Speaker 1: get out there during season. And uh, don't worry about 1520 01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,559 Speaker 1: scenting it all up, don't worry about leaving your scent, 1521 01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,960 Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Get out there, scout, get on, 1522 01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:03,920 Speaker 1: get out there, find out what's going on. Look for 1523 01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, hot sign, look for maybe a doll and 1524 01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:08,920 Speaker 1: heat uh. Uh, you know an area of being worked 1525 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,599 Speaker 1: up really hard. Uh, and get in there and hunted, 1526 01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,679 Speaker 1: look for watch for dough areas. You know, shoo, seriously, 1527 01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,200 Speaker 1: do sign where you kick those up, where they're browsing, 1528 01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:21,599 Speaker 1: where there's beer poop. Um. You know most of these seasons, 1529 01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,880 Speaker 1: like the rifle seasons and so forth, are there during 1530 01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:28,160 Speaker 1: the run. Um, there's no better place. Uh. If there's 1531 01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:30,240 Speaker 1: doose there, I'll guarantee you the bucks will be there 1532 01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:32,719 Speaker 1: at some point. You know. Then you've got edges coming away. 1533 01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,120 Speaker 1: Then that's where you get your maps out. You know, 1534 01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:37,200 Speaker 1: when you're out there, look for rub lines that follow 1535 01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:39,400 Speaker 1: the line the edges coming in and out. Where there's 1536 01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:42,680 Speaker 1: a dough area. Um, didn't look at your maps and 1537 01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:46,160 Speaker 1: see where maybe a good spot and that's a good place, 1538 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:47,960 Speaker 1: a good place to set up, you know, get in 1539 01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:51,720 Speaker 1: there and don't worry about leaving your sand. I I 1540 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,360 Speaker 1: track box, I go out and I walked through the woods. 1541 01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,800 Speaker 1: The next day, I come back and there's a buck 1542 01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,560 Speaker 1: walking in my track. If a buck walks in my 1543 01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,680 Speaker 1: boot track that night, do you think he's afraid of 1544 01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:05,560 Speaker 1: my scent? Do you think I scared? Him out of 1545 01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,160 Speaker 1: that area. He's walking in my track for having's sakes. 1546 01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,800 Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know, he's not afraid of my scent 1547 01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,640 Speaker 1: that I left behind there the day before. You know, 1548 01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't. It's not I had a I had a 1549 01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,760 Speaker 1: good friend that kept walking back in and by a 1550 01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,720 Speaker 1: really good sign every day to hunt a different deer. 1551 01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,040 Speaker 1: He kept walking by there, and one day he just 1552 01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:25,760 Speaker 1: woke up and he said, you know, I gotta hunt this. 1553 01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,960 Speaker 1: There's there's a big buck here. And he had walked 1554 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,559 Speaker 1: through there how many times hunting that souther buck way 1555 01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:32,640 Speaker 1: back in, further back in, And the first night he 1556 01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:34,639 Speaker 1: sat there on that ridge coming up out of the swamp, 1557 01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:36,280 Speaker 1: he shot that bucket. It was a dandy. He was 1558 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,639 Speaker 1: a bootee, and he had left his cent there every 1559 01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:41,639 Speaker 1: day that when he went through there to go hunting, 1560 01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,920 Speaker 1: you know. And so two lessons, don't worry about leaving 1561 01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:51,639 Speaker 1: sent in the woods, uh, and then um hunt sign, 1562 01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:55,479 Speaker 1: you know, get out there and scout. Yeah. So so 1563 01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,080 Speaker 1: speaking of walking around the woods, whether you're scouting or well, 1564 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,519 Speaker 1: there's imagine there's one way you're you're hunting in there 1565 01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,920 Speaker 1: when you're when you're scouting into hunt. But then there's 1566 01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:08,320 Speaker 1: another way you're walking when you're walking in there tracking 1567 01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:12,479 Speaker 1: a buck. We kind of skipped over the final phase 1568 01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,639 Speaker 1: of a tracking hunt. We talked about how you find 1569 01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:18,280 Speaker 1: a track. We talked about identifying the right track. We 1570 01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:20,840 Speaker 1: never did get to the point where you're actually walking 1571 01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:24,760 Speaker 1: down that track, how you're actually doing that? Um, And 1572 01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,720 Speaker 1: I figured we better, we better touch on that before 1573 01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,120 Speaker 1: we wrap this thing up. UM. Something I'm curious about 1574 01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,439 Speaker 1: that I that I haven't talked to other guys about 1575 01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,360 Speaker 1: when it comes to tracking, is how you think about 1576 01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:38,559 Speaker 1: wind direction when you're tracking a deer. So what if 1577 01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,679 Speaker 1: you're driving down a forrest road, you cut a big track, 1578 01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:44,360 Speaker 1: it's a giant track. You're no doubt boy, this is 1579 01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:48,120 Speaker 1: a big buck and it looks fresh. But you step 1580 01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:50,200 Speaker 1: out of the truck, you walk ten yards out there 1581 01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:52,800 Speaker 1: and you see it. The wind is blowing on your neck, 1582 01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,479 Speaker 1: straight down the trail towards where that buck is. Do 1583 01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:58,960 Speaker 1: you just say, I'm not gonna I can't do it 1584 01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,479 Speaker 1: because my winds going me blowing right where he's probably 1585 01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,280 Speaker 1: at and it's no good. Or do you say screw 1586 01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:07,760 Speaker 1: it and you track that buck anyways? Well I'm gonna 1587 01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,360 Speaker 1: track him because he could be four miles away, so 1588 01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:13,560 Speaker 1: and he could be and he could have turned, you know, 1589 01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:17,720 Speaker 1: fifty times during that and he may be going he 1590 01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,920 Speaker 1: might be coming back at me, you know. I mean, 1591 01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:23,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know where he is. He 1592 01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,240 Speaker 1: could you know, he could make a one mile loop 1593 01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,720 Speaker 1: and be coming right back in the same direction that 1594 01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:33,519 Speaker 1: he came that he went in. So I don't pay 1595 01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:35,920 Speaker 1: no attention. There's only one time I pay attention to 1596 01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,760 Speaker 1: the wind when I'm tracking a deer, um is, and 1597 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,800 Speaker 1: that's after I bump him. If I bump him, I 1598 01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,880 Speaker 1: let him go. I give about an hour a calm 1599 01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:48,559 Speaker 1: down or whatever, and then and then I take up 1600 01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:53,200 Speaker 1: the track again. Um, when I get to the point 1601 01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:55,760 Speaker 1: where I'm catching up to him again, where he's down 1602 01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,519 Speaker 1: to a walk and he's going really slow, he isn't 1603 01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,800 Speaker 1: going to go that far totally, probably won't go over 1604 01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:03,000 Speaker 1: half a mile from where I bump him before he'll 1605 01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:05,519 Speaker 1: lay down again. So by the time I get to 1606 01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,360 Speaker 1: the point where he's walking now, he probably isn't more 1607 01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:10,600 Speaker 1: than a couple hundred yards away from me. Um. And 1608 01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:13,720 Speaker 1: then I I slow way now. But and I mean, 1609 01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm I'm talking so slow that if you sat and 1610 01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:17,720 Speaker 1: watched me, you would have a hard time knowing I'm 1611 01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:21,720 Speaker 1: moving and uh, but I won't do that. If my 1612 01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,559 Speaker 1: scent is blowing right to that deer, I figure he's 1613 01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,560 Speaker 1: within two hunter the yards and me. Yet if the 1614 01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:28,599 Speaker 1: if the wind is blowing right at him, I'm sure 1615 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:30,800 Speaker 1: by now he's already caught my wind. He probably has 1616 01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,240 Speaker 1: already blown out of his bed. If the wind is 1617 01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:34,760 Speaker 1: going to him, There's no way I'm going to spend 1618 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,840 Speaker 1: the next three hours trying to creep yards knowing that 1619 01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,880 Speaker 1: my scent is blowing right to him. If if I 1620 01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,040 Speaker 1: got the wind not in my favor, I will move 1621 01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:48,519 Speaker 1: a lot faster because I feel like the gigs already up. 1622 01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:53,280 Speaker 1: There's no sense of, you know, going through that painstaking 1623 01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:55,840 Speaker 1: death creep to try to get close to him when 1624 01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,040 Speaker 1: he's probably already blown out of there because he's probably 1625 01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:01,360 Speaker 1: already caught. Me. That the only time I ever paid 1626 01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,439 Speaker 1: any attention to wind at all whatsoever. Otherwise I never 1627 01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,240 Speaker 1: pay attention to what the way the wind is going. 1628 01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:08,599 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, you know. And I don't even care 1629 01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:12,360 Speaker 1: about how much noise I make, because again it bothers me. 1630 01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:14,519 Speaker 1: It always bothers me when I crack a branch or 1631 01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:16,160 Speaker 1: something that when I'm walking through the woods. But he's 1632 01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,040 Speaker 1: probably three miles away, you know, he isn't good to 1633 01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:23,200 Speaker 1: hear me. Um. Yeah, here's another thing too. I do 1634 01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:27,479 Speaker 1: this with the guys in the tracking school. I have him, 1635 01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:31,160 Speaker 1: I have him stand, and then I take off walking 1636 01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:32,840 Speaker 1: and I tell them to yell at me when they 1637 01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:36,960 Speaker 1: can't hear me anymore. And you'd be surprised. You can't 1638 01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,680 Speaker 1: hear very far in the woods. You can't hear very 1639 01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,679 Speaker 1: far at all, So you don't have to worry about 1640 01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:44,960 Speaker 1: making much noise, you know. I mean again, if you're 1641 01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,400 Speaker 1: in that death creep part of the tracking, after you 1642 01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:49,639 Speaker 1: bump them and you're you're you know, he's gonna probably 1643 01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:51,400 Speaker 1: bet it down a couple of yards ahead of you, 1644 01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:54,400 Speaker 1: and you're going very slow, yes, and you really want 1645 01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:56,559 Speaker 1: to make sure you don't make any noise. I test 1646 01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,880 Speaker 1: the ground with every step, I feel for anything that 1647 01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,360 Speaker 1: could snap or whatever, and I push it out of 1648 01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:04,040 Speaker 1: the way with my toll and try to get a 1649 01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:08,000 Speaker 1: firm foot on the ground. Um. Other than that, when 1650 01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm going through the woods, I don't really care how 1651 01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:11,760 Speaker 1: much noise I make it doesn't matter that deer is 1652 01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:15,360 Speaker 1: not probably anywhere close to me. And and uh, you 1653 01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:19,040 Speaker 1: know here's another thing too. A lot of guys want 1654 01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,400 Speaker 1: to go really slow and really watch for the deer 1655 01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:24,000 Speaker 1: when they're tracking. I go as fast as I can. 1656 01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:28,160 Speaker 1: I go as fast as I can. And because again, 1657 01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:30,960 Speaker 1: that deer is probably four miles away from me, six 1658 01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,680 Speaker 1: miles away from me. If I go slow, I'm not 1659 01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:36,639 Speaker 1: we're going to catch them. I'll run out of daylight 1660 01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:40,040 Speaker 1: before I catch them. So I gotta put the miles 1661 01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:42,000 Speaker 1: on in order to catch them. So I just go fast. 1662 01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:43,439 Speaker 1: I just go as fast as I can. I try 1663 01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:45,240 Speaker 1: to try to watch it. You know, I always try 1664 01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:47,680 Speaker 1: to stay really active. Um. I try not to look 1665 01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:49,559 Speaker 1: at the ground anymore, and I possibly have to when 1666 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:50,760 Speaker 1: I try to move as fast as I can and 1667 01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:52,920 Speaker 1: I keep looking for that deer. A matter of fact, 1668 01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:55,439 Speaker 1: sometimes it works in your advantage to go really fast, 1669 01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,400 Speaker 1: because a lot of times you come up on them 1670 01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:02,280 Speaker 1: so fast that if they're distract did you close that 1671 01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:07,000 Speaker 1: last yards really fast? And and they might have been 1672 01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:09,760 Speaker 1: pawing the ground and eating or something, or or maybe 1673 01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:12,240 Speaker 1: they kind of dozed off a little bit or or whatever. 1674 01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:14,720 Speaker 1: The case may be, you make up that ground a 1675 01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,719 Speaker 1: lot quicker when you're moving faster, and if there happened 1676 01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:20,000 Speaker 1: to be in a slight disadvantage at that very moment, 1677 01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:22,439 Speaker 1: you make that ground up really fast and bam, you're 1678 01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:25,240 Speaker 1: on top of them before they know it. Then you 1679 01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:27,040 Speaker 1: do get to jump on him, and you get a chance, 1680 01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:29,600 Speaker 1: you know. I I came up on one that was 1681 01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:33,320 Speaker 1: just so happened. I got really lucky doing The fawn 1682 01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:36,200 Speaker 1: head went through right in front of me, and they 1683 01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,680 Speaker 1: walked by him. He got up out of his bed. 1684 01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:42,720 Speaker 1: He standing there mewing at him. Yeah, it was. It 1685 01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,799 Speaker 1: was hilarious. I came up right behind it. I'm standing 1686 01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:49,080 Speaker 1: there watching this buck mewing at this door and this fawn, 1687 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:51,040 Speaker 1: and he doesn't even know I'm there because he's so 1688 01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,760 Speaker 1: distracted with this dough on the fawn. And it was 1689 01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:57,439 Speaker 1: but and it was. It was the young bucket. I 1690 01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,160 Speaker 1: knew the track wasn't real good when I took it. 1691 01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:00,439 Speaker 1: It was one of those day is where I just 1692 01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:02,280 Speaker 1: wanted to stretch my legs and have a little fun. 1693 01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,760 Speaker 1: And I grabbed the track, caught up to him. It 1694 01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,560 Speaker 1: didn't take me that long and and he's I videotaped 1695 01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,080 Speaker 1: him that I leaned my gun up against my leg 1696 01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:13,599 Speaker 1: and grabbed my video camera. A videotaped, and he actually 1697 01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:16,400 Speaker 1: walked up to me, and once he realized that there 1698 01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:18,920 Speaker 1: was something there, he stopped and he starts doing a 1699 01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,920 Speaker 1: head bob at me, and he starts pawing the ground 1700 01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:23,760 Speaker 1: and I'm just adding there looking at him, you know, 1701 01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,439 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't move. Here was a guy in blaze 1702 01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:27,840 Speaker 1: orangeading right there, and he opened, you know, and then 1703 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:30,000 Speaker 1: he walked by me and he kept going and then 1704 01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:31,960 Speaker 1: I pulled the cabra out of my pocket. A videotaped 1705 01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:36,759 Speaker 1: as he walked away. I laughed, But they're going fast. 1706 01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:38,720 Speaker 1: Got me close to him, you know, and he was 1707 01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:41,519 Speaker 1: distracted at that very moment. He just got lucky, you know. 1708 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:44,400 Speaker 1: And and uh, I opted not to shoot him because 1709 01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:46,439 Speaker 1: he was a young buck. But it was it was 1710 01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:48,160 Speaker 1: a fun track and it was you know, and I 1711 01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:51,080 Speaker 1: had that happened before. I jumped on a track and 1712 01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:54,400 Speaker 1: I practically ran because he was an open hardwoods and 1713 01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:56,040 Speaker 1: I thought there's noise in a bed down and he's 1714 01:28:56,080 --> 01:29:01,120 Speaker 1: open hardwood. I was wrong. I'm jog it along, went 1715 01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,240 Speaker 1: down to a valley, came up the other side, and 1716 01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:05,680 Speaker 1: I froze right in my tracks. He's sitting there on 1717 01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,880 Speaker 1: the ground fifty yards away from me, underneath the cedar tree. 1718 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:12,760 Speaker 1: It's like, really, you know? And again it was. It 1719 01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:14,920 Speaker 1: was a buck that didn't really have a real big rack, 1720 01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:17,439 Speaker 1: and I opted not to shoot him, and I took 1721 01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:19,599 Speaker 1: a bunch of pictures of him, and then I whistled 1722 01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,880 Speaker 1: at him, and he boy, what he realized I was there? 1723 01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:28,720 Speaker 1: He got. Now, what about a situation where, um, other 1724 01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:33,280 Speaker 1: than actually seeing the buck and bumping in, um, other 1725 01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:35,479 Speaker 1: than that scenario, you're going really fast, you're trying to 1726 01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,639 Speaker 1: cover ground. When do you know to start slowing down? 1727 01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:41,760 Speaker 1: Is there some kind of something you're seeing with the 1728 01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,400 Speaker 1: tracks that's indicative, or something with the habitat that says, okay, 1729 01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:47,559 Speaker 1: now it's time to put on the brakes. We're getting close. 1730 01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:50,920 Speaker 1: The only time I would really ever do that is 1731 01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:55,280 Speaker 1: if they started feeding really hard. Um, if they start meandering, 1732 01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:58,519 Speaker 1: I get a little bit edgy, and I start watching 1733 01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,559 Speaker 1: a lot closer and MA low down somewhat. But I've 1734 01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:05,759 Speaker 1: learned from experience they can start meandering for different reasons, 1735 01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:09,679 Speaker 1: and and you waste a lot of time. More times 1736 01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:11,680 Speaker 1: than not. You're wrong. They're thinking that they're gonna lay 1737 01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:14,720 Speaker 1: down and you're just wasting time. Um. If they feed 1738 01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,120 Speaker 1: really hard, if they really start pawing the ground and 1739 01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:19,360 Speaker 1: they really start tearing up an area, really feeding, they're 1740 01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:22,200 Speaker 1: going to lay down. Um if they stop at nibble 1741 01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:25,000 Speaker 1: old man's beard or some mushrooms off the side of 1742 01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:27,840 Speaker 1: a tree, or they dig up some filler ferns. Um, 1743 01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:31,360 Speaker 1: take a little couple of bites. Um, that doesn't mean 1744 01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:35,600 Speaker 1: they're they're gonna lay down that that more times than 1745 01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:40,080 Speaker 1: not they won't even Uh So I just don't. I 1746 01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:44,280 Speaker 1: just keep moving. I've learned. I've went home so many 1747 01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:48,519 Speaker 1: days never catching them that I've just taught myself to 1748 01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:53,000 Speaker 1: go fast and not worry about it. Um. Here here's 1749 01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:57,040 Speaker 1: what they're saying. I have. I've shot zero percent of 1750 01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:02,080 Speaker 1: the deer that I didn't catch up to it. Yeah, 1751 01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:06,439 Speaker 1: and that's that's an interesting, interesting statistic. Yeah, you know, 1752 01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:08,560 Speaker 1: I've never killed one that I didn't catch up to 1753 01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:12,560 Speaker 1: So I got to catch up to him. And and 1754 01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,679 Speaker 1: if my if my percentages go down because I'm moving fast, 1755 01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,559 Speaker 1: which I don't really think they do. Um, even if 1756 01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,760 Speaker 1: they did, I still can't shoot them unless I catch them. 1757 01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:26,640 Speaker 1: You know when you learned this lesson in the north, uh, 1758 01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:32,280 Speaker 1: after chasing hundreds and hundreds of of me and and 1759 01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:35,240 Speaker 1: just coming home, you know, dragging your tail, but to 1760 01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:37,519 Speaker 1: bind you because you didn't catch up with him. You know, 1761 01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:40,640 Speaker 1: you learn to go fast, you learn to just to go. 1762 01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:43,439 Speaker 1: You got to catch him already, kill him. That makes sense. 1763 01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:46,360 Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. Do you do anything 1764 01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:51,639 Speaker 1: speak uh? Speaking of that, there's one time a year 1765 01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,160 Speaker 1: that I like tracking the best more than any other, 1766 01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:58,840 Speaker 1: and that's late. The later the better, The later the 1767 01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,479 Speaker 1: better because the later you it, the more they start 1768 01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:05,479 Speaker 1: dropping away from the rout and more towards feeding, and 1769 01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:07,320 Speaker 1: they don't travel as much. Now it's a little bit 1770 01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:09,439 Speaker 1: harder to find a track because the less tracks are 1771 01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:13,360 Speaker 1: making the harder it is the finer track. But if 1772 01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:14,960 Speaker 1: your key on areas that you know, whe there's a 1773 01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:18,120 Speaker 1: good bucking and you're watching for him and you catch 1774 01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:21,759 Speaker 1: them there, you're going to catch him because he's probably 1775 01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:24,120 Speaker 1: not going to go real far, you know, maybe a 1776 01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,960 Speaker 1: couple of miles um uh, sometimes half a mile. You'll 1777 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:32,080 Speaker 1: catch them because they're just they're just not moving as 1778 01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:35,439 Speaker 1: much anymore. They they slow down a lot that time 1779 01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:40,640 Speaker 1: of year, so that from that standpoint, they're tired, they're exhausted. 1780 01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:42,200 Speaker 1: All they want to do is feed their belly and 1781 01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:46,599 Speaker 1: lay down. UM, And so it's a lot easier. Your 1782 01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:50,240 Speaker 1: percentages go way up the later it gets the Unfortunately, 1783 01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:52,320 Speaker 1: the later it gets usually the deeper snow gets, which 1784 01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:55,120 Speaker 1: makes it a lot tougher to track and so forth. Um. 1785 01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:57,759 Speaker 1: There's always advantages the deer get no matter what situation 1786 01:32:57,840 --> 01:32:59,960 Speaker 1: you're in, But that's the time of year that's probably 1787 01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:03,120 Speaker 1: the most fun for me. UM. I think my success 1788 01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,160 Speaker 1: rate goes up a little bit more that time of 1789 01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:08,840 Speaker 1: year because of that. When you're when you're out there 1790 01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:12,760 Speaker 1: tracking a situation like that, it's late, there's a lot 1791 01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,519 Speaker 1: of snow on the ground, you've been following track for 1792 01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,919 Speaker 1: long ways. Then you see that situation you just detailed 1793 01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:21,720 Speaker 1: a second ago, where lots of meandering and now like 1794 01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:26,439 Speaker 1: heavy feeding. Everything tells you, okay, this buck is getting 1795 01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:29,679 Speaker 1: ready to bet it's it's it's close. Um, you're within 1796 01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:33,759 Speaker 1: the zone. Now you're just creeping along. At this point, 1797 01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:38,160 Speaker 1: do you do this? Do you stop and stand still 1798 01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:41,600 Speaker 1: for five minutes with your binoculars and scan everything? Do 1799 01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,600 Speaker 1: you have your gun up and ready. What what what 1800 01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:46,960 Speaker 1: happens when you realize that you're in the zone? Does 1801 01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:49,439 Speaker 1: anything change or do you keep just slowly moving until 1802 01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,720 Speaker 1: it bumps? Well, first of all, I have the gun 1803 01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:55,080 Speaker 1: ready all the time. I don't sling it. Um. I 1804 01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:57,719 Speaker 1: took the sling off years ago when I was practiced shooting. 1805 01:33:57,760 --> 01:33:59,880 Speaker 1: I learned that when I have my sling on my gun, 1806 01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:02,200 Speaker 1: when I throw my gun up with the sling on it, 1807 01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:05,200 Speaker 1: my sling swings back and forth like a pendulum. And 1808 01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:07,920 Speaker 1: I watched my bead move back and forth with the 1809 01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:12,519 Speaker 1: swinging of the sling, and it it It's amazing how 1810 01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:16,360 Speaker 1: much that sling swinging will throw your gun. And if 1811 01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:18,280 Speaker 1: you've got a deer that's a hundred yards out there 1812 01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:20,360 Speaker 1: that will push that bead enough to miss them. It's 1813 01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:22,120 Speaker 1: hard enough to shoot them when they're running then, let 1814 01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,800 Speaker 1: alone trying to compensate for a sling that's swinging back 1815 01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:28,320 Speaker 1: and forth. So I keep the gun at hand all 1816 01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:33,200 Speaker 1: the time. UM, So I am always ready with the gun. Um. Again, 1817 01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:36,679 Speaker 1: it's hard for me to slow down too much. I'll 1818 01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:38,040 Speaker 1: tell you where I like to slow it down. Here's 1819 01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:39,920 Speaker 1: where I like to slow down when I get an advantage. 1820 01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:41,880 Speaker 1: Let's say I'm going down to a valley and I 1821 01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,400 Speaker 1: come up on and I crested the ridge. I'll usually 1822 01:34:44,439 --> 01:34:47,560 Speaker 1: go up the backside of that ridge really fast. I 1823 01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:50,200 Speaker 1: usually pick up the pace fit the top of the ridge, 1824 01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:53,559 Speaker 1: moving fast, and then freeze and stand still, and then 1825 01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:55,600 Speaker 1: I that's where I'll stand for a minute or so, 1826 01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:59,840 Speaker 1: and I'll just really survey the area, because now I've 1827 01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:03,400 Speaker 1: got the heights advantage, and I can see quite a bit, 1828 01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:06,160 Speaker 1: so I'll just stand there and watch for a while. 1829 01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,160 Speaker 1: Not for a long time, but for a while. A 1830 01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:10,960 Speaker 1: matter of fact, the one I was telling you about 1831 01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:12,680 Speaker 1: this this last year that I caught up to that 1832 01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,040 Speaker 1: was shed That's why I caught him. I came up 1833 01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:17,040 Speaker 1: to a valley, came up the top really fast, got 1834 01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:20,120 Speaker 1: to the top of the ridge, and I froze and 1835 01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:22,080 Speaker 1: I stood there and I started surveying the area, and 1836 01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:24,800 Speaker 1: sure enough he was out there feeding. Didn't have any 1837 01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:26,400 Speaker 1: antlers on him, so I thought, well, it must not be, 1838 01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:28,320 Speaker 1: my dear. But I followed the track right to him 1839 01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:32,120 Speaker 1: was so and they were little drops of blood as 1840 01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,439 Speaker 1: he went along. To A videotaped that, so I think 1841 01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:36,760 Speaker 1: that he had just shed. I actually tracked backtracked him 1842 01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:38,320 Speaker 1: all the way to where I started again, tried to 1843 01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:40,360 Speaker 1: see if I could find where if he you know, 1844 01:35:40,479 --> 01:35:43,000 Speaker 1: dropped his antlers somewhere. But then by the time I 1845 01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:45,040 Speaker 1: got where I started, it was already getting dark, so 1846 01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:46,960 Speaker 1: I didn't go and try to backtrack him any further. 1847 01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:48,240 Speaker 1: And the next day I wanted to see if I 1848 01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:50,880 Speaker 1: coul shoot a deer, so I didn't go back looking again. 1849 01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:54,080 Speaker 1: But um, but yeah, that was you know, on that 1850 01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:56,200 Speaker 1: particular deer. I came up to the valley fast and 1851 01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:58,439 Speaker 1: then I hit the top and I stood there watched him. 1852 01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,200 Speaker 1: Sure enough, you know, I caught his mood him, but 1853 01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:02,639 Speaker 1: that he was feeding. So other than that, I try 1854 01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:06,519 Speaker 1: to keep moving again. Here's here, Okay, think of this scenario. 1855 01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:09,840 Speaker 1: So you're you're you're following a deer and he starts 1856 01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:12,840 Speaker 1: meandering and he starts feeding hard. Okay, so now you're 1857 01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:15,840 Speaker 1: convinced he's gonna lay down. Okay, let's say you're right. 1858 01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,040 Speaker 1: Let's say he does lay down. But let's say that 1859 01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:21,400 Speaker 1: was eight hours ago, and he laid there for two 1860 01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:25,080 Speaker 1: hours and got up and took off again. Now you 1861 01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:28,840 Speaker 1: just spent an hour covering that last hundred and fifty 1862 01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:32,080 Speaker 1: yards to the bed only to find an empty bed. 1863 01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,519 Speaker 1: What did you gain? And I've done this so you know, 1864 01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,160 Speaker 1: I mean, this is what happened. So I try not 1865 01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:40,760 Speaker 1: to again, you know, I try not to error on 1866 01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:45,160 Speaker 1: the side of wasting time when I don't know. I 1867 01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:47,160 Speaker 1: like to move. I like to you know, I'll be more, 1868 01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:49,880 Speaker 1: I'll be tuned in a little bit more. I believe me. 1869 01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:51,920 Speaker 1: My radar is going full bore. When you know, I 1870 01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:53,960 Speaker 1: start seeing these signals that he could be going down, 1871 01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:56,920 Speaker 1: I you know, I get a little bit more intense. Um. 1872 01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:01,640 Speaker 1: But again, I unless I absolutely have you know, I mean, 1873 01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:03,320 Speaker 1: the only way you really know if he's there is 1874 01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:06,439 Speaker 1: if you see him. So, um, I don't like to 1875 01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:08,519 Speaker 1: waste a lot of time. I've just wasted too minch 1876 01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:10,840 Speaker 1: time on tracks and not caught too many deer and 1877 01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:12,720 Speaker 1: and and so I just kind of you know when 1878 01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:14,960 Speaker 1: I said the lesson, I have to keep learning all 1879 01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,160 Speaker 1: the time because I want to slow down. I really 1880 01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:20,280 Speaker 1: want to start picking the woods apart. But you know, 1881 01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:22,599 Speaker 1: you just don't catch them and you don't get them. Yeah, 1882 01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:26,880 Speaker 1: here's another thing too, I want to touch on. When 1883 01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:30,160 Speaker 1: you come up on a bed. You're tracking this buck 1884 01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:31,439 Speaker 1: and you come up on a bad I'm gonna tell 1885 01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:35,040 Speaker 1: you a story. I tracked the buck is in Centter, 1886 01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:40,000 Speaker 1: Wisconsin here and it was a muzzleoader season, and I 1887 01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,400 Speaker 1: came up on his bed. It was a nice bed, 1888 01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:46,000 Speaker 1: nice buck. So I got my camera out and I 1889 01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:47,960 Speaker 1: was taking pictures of the bed, and I laid my 1890 01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:50,479 Speaker 1: muzzleloader in the bed and I took pictures of that 1891 01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:52,360 Speaker 1: to give an idea how big the bed was and 1892 01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:56,080 Speaker 1: stuff and all little fun with it. Whatever it got, okay, 1893 01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:59,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put away, grabbed my muzzleloader again, and I 1894 01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,760 Speaker 1: started taken off on the track again, and I walked 1895 01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:03,720 Speaker 1: about another twenty yards and I blew him up and 1896 01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,000 Speaker 1: I he jumped up and he ran away, and I 1897 01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,840 Speaker 1: didn't even fired a shot. I just couldn't get the 1898 01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,960 Speaker 1: bead settled out of him. The nice dandy, dandy, nice 1899 01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:16,120 Speaker 1: eight pointer, you know, and and and uh, I just 1900 01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:18,200 Speaker 1: couldn't get the beat on him. It was muzzleoader, and 1901 01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:20,120 Speaker 1: you get one chance, you know. So I just waited 1902 01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:22,719 Speaker 1: too long, and I just never got the bead set alowed, 1903 01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:25,599 Speaker 1: never took the shot. But the lesson to be learned 1904 01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:28,080 Speaker 1: in this is when you come across the bed and 1905 01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:30,000 Speaker 1: it's empty and he didn't run out of it, so 1906 01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:31,680 Speaker 1: you know you didn't push him out of that bed. 1907 01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:35,640 Speaker 1: Be on super super red alert because I've seen it 1908 01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:40,120 Speaker 1: many times since that day, where they'll get up, they'll 1909 01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:44,439 Speaker 1: move forty yards, twenty yards, thirty yards, they'll poop, pe uh, 1910 01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:46,920 Speaker 1: maybe nibble a little bit more, stretch a little bit, 1911 01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:50,280 Speaker 1: and they'll lay back down. And then they'll get up 1912 01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:52,200 Speaker 1: and do the same thing another hour later and they'll 1913 01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:56,080 Speaker 1: lay back down. And so oftentimes when you come up 1914 01:38:56,120 --> 01:38:58,599 Speaker 1: to an empty bed, that doesn't mean he isn't very 1915 01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:00,639 Speaker 1: close yet a matter of fact, is a good chance 1916 01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:03,000 Speaker 1: he's closed. So when you come up on anti bed, 1917 01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:05,719 Speaker 1: be on full alert because he could be in another 1918 01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:08,920 Speaker 1: bed just thirty yards away. And I've had that happened 1919 01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,160 Speaker 1: many times to the point now where I just get 1920 01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:13,200 Speaker 1: excited when I see an empty Betty, if I can 1921 01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:15,400 Speaker 1: tell that he's not running out of that bed and 1922 01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:17,920 Speaker 1: I haven't scared him, I get excited because I'm thinking 1923 01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:20,400 Speaker 1: he's right there, because more times than not, he is. 1924 01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:24,560 Speaker 1: It's a very interesting observation, and you had's something you 1925 01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,640 Speaker 1: think about, you know, just when you consider, dear, a 1926 01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,760 Speaker 1: buck betting behavior in general is that, Yeah, the lots 1927 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,000 Speaker 1: of times they'll have a little spot and then, like 1928 01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:36,559 Speaker 1: you said, get up, stretch, urinate, bed, back down, maybe 1929 01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:41,040 Speaker 1: just reposition. And uh, it's interesting. You might, you know, 1930 01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:43,080 Speaker 1: pan out in the way you describe where you might 1931 01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:46,000 Speaker 1: be right there, just yards away, and you might not 1932 01:39:46,120 --> 01:39:49,200 Speaker 1: even know it if you're not paying attention. The biggest 1933 01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:52,080 Speaker 1: buck I didn't I didn't get him. I never got that, dear, 1934 01:39:52,200 --> 01:39:54,759 Speaker 1: But the biggest buck I ever tracted northern was God's. 1935 01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:58,360 Speaker 1: And that thing was like a horse. Oh my goodness, um, 1936 01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:02,040 Speaker 1: the first time my color of that deer. There was 1937 01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:06,439 Speaker 1: a bed and he got up and he moved over, oh, 1938 01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:08,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, about another ten yards and laid down again. 1939 01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,519 Speaker 1: Then he got up and he walked right back to 1940 01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,879 Speaker 1: the first bed, past the first bed, and he circled 1941 01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:18,960 Speaker 1: around and he went back into some thicker brush and 1942 01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,680 Speaker 1: he laid down about another thirty yards over, and I 1943 01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:25,080 Speaker 1: came in, walked to the first bed, walk to the 1944 01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:28,600 Speaker 1: second bed, backtracked into the first bed, blocked past the 1945 01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:31,120 Speaker 1: first bed, and started circling around towards that really thick 1946 01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:33,080 Speaker 1: brush where he was and he blew up out of there, 1947 01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:35,519 Speaker 1: and he blew out. It was so thick I couldn't 1948 01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:38,320 Speaker 1: see him, but he was right there, and he I 1949 01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:42,040 Speaker 1: scared him so bad. He actually tripped and plowed the ground. 1950 01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:44,800 Speaker 1: He just he hit the snow and just slid along. 1951 01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:46,400 Speaker 1: And he got up and he ran out of there. 1952 01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:48,200 Speaker 1: And boy, he made he made a lot of noise 1953 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:50,720 Speaker 1: when he went took off out of there because he 1954 01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:53,960 Speaker 1: fell down. But he was a brute. He was just 1955 01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:56,760 Speaker 1: he was a brute. And and but he had three 1956 01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:58,960 Speaker 1: different beds, right. That was just a you know, that 1957 01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:01,320 Speaker 1: classical example of that. He had gotten up, you know, 1958 01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:03,680 Speaker 1: two other times and moved around and reposition. Could be 1959 01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,680 Speaker 1: the wind, it could be just he just wanted something different. Um, 1960 01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:08,960 Speaker 1: who knows why they do what they do, but he had, 1961 01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:10,559 Speaker 1: you know, I see that all the time, where they 1962 01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:12,200 Speaker 1: get to an area where they want to hang out, 1963 01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:14,200 Speaker 1: they'll just reposition a bunch of times to get up 1964 01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,120 Speaker 1: to stretch a little bit, you know, move around, and 1965 01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:18,880 Speaker 1: then and then rebd ont again. I never did get 1966 01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:20,599 Speaker 1: that year. I was after him for a few years 1967 01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:22,599 Speaker 1: and he dropped off the radar. So I'm sure he's 1968 01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:25,720 Speaker 1: dead by now. Wow, that's cool to We'll see that though, 1969 01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:29,160 Speaker 1: and actually have you know proof that that actually happens 1970 01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:31,400 Speaker 1: by getting to see the beds and bump them out 1971 01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:33,840 Speaker 1: of there. That's another great benefit of what you're doing. 1972 01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:36,760 Speaker 1: Just getting to see that kind of signed firsthand. Is 1973 01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:42,280 Speaker 1: uh really useful? Um? Well, we have to wrap this 1974 01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:44,479 Speaker 1: up because I've been keeping you here for a pretty 1975 01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:46,479 Speaker 1: long time. UM, but I want to ask you as 1976 01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:48,800 Speaker 1: two more questions before we do before we do wrap 1977 01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:52,320 Speaker 1: it up, And the first of those, I'm just kind 1978 01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:57,360 Speaker 1: of curious. Is is there anything that you do that 1979 01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:02,599 Speaker 1: most other trackers, most other deer trackers would think you're 1980 01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:05,200 Speaker 1: crazy for doing? Is there anything out there that everybody 1981 01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:07,240 Speaker 1: else that does your style of hunting would be like Todd, 1982 01:42:07,439 --> 01:42:10,439 Speaker 1: that's nuts, but you still do it. Is there anything 1983 01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:12,519 Speaker 1: that comes to mind when I when I lay that 1984 01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:17,400 Speaker 1: scenario out. I don't know if technique or or anything 1985 01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:23,000 Speaker 1: that I actually do, um, not not really um, but 1986 01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:25,639 Speaker 1: I will say something that that kind of gets into 1987 01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,680 Speaker 1: a strange realm and a lot of people you kind 1988 01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:32,400 Speaker 1: of kind of like the turning walk away. Um. The 1989 01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:36,360 Speaker 1: it's the mental aspect of it. Ah. I think there's 1990 01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:40,599 Speaker 1: something much greater than we're capable of understanding that comes 1991 01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:43,280 Speaker 1: along with the mental aspect of it. I believe I 1992 01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:45,920 Speaker 1: want to kill every deer I chase. I believe I'm 1993 01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:48,920 Speaker 1: going to get everyone. I believe I'm going to be 1994 01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:52,680 Speaker 1: successful all the time. And I think something changes when 1995 01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:55,200 Speaker 1: you have that mental aspect, and not just that it 1996 01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:58,439 Speaker 1: pushes you to try harder or anything like that. I 1997 01:42:58,479 --> 01:43:02,040 Speaker 1: think there's something even beyond that that that things happen. 1998 01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:06,320 Speaker 1: I've had weird, strange luck that just it is hard 1999 01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:09,640 Speaker 1: to explain, and and it always seems like when my 2000 01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:15,680 Speaker 1: mental attitude is there, things go my way. Yeah, how 2001 01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:17,320 Speaker 1: do how do you put yourself in a position to 2002 01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:20,639 Speaker 1: have that positive attitude? How do you keep that mental 2003 01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:24,840 Speaker 1: state strong without losing hope or getting discouraged? You're getting frustrated. 2004 01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:27,000 Speaker 1: That's a good question. And if I could figure that 2005 01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,080 Speaker 1: one out, I'd write a book and be a millionaire. 2006 01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:35,280 Speaker 1: It's a mindset, it's I think it's it's a practice skill, 2007 01:43:35,360 --> 01:43:38,599 Speaker 1: it's a learned skill. Um. You see some people run 2008 01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:42,639 Speaker 1: around and um, you know they talk about the glass 2009 01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:46,920 Speaker 1: half bold, glass half empty. You know, mentalities and stuff. 2010 01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:49,720 Speaker 1: And I think the people that have the positive attitudes 2011 01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:54,519 Speaker 1: and so forth. Um, it's a practice to learn skill. 2012 01:43:55,280 --> 01:43:57,720 Speaker 1: If you don't have it, and you practice it long enough, 2013 01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:00,720 Speaker 1: you will become it. So if you you tend to 2014 01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:04,040 Speaker 1: be negative or you tend to not have confidence, then 2015 01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:07,799 Speaker 1: fake it till you make it. Yeah, just keep telling yourself. 2016 01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:10,840 Speaker 1: Keep telling yourself, you know, keep telling you, I'm gonna 2017 01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:12,760 Speaker 1: get this steer, I'm gonna catch this steer, I'm gonna 2018 01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:15,600 Speaker 1: be successful, I'm gonna shoot this steer. You know, I 2019 01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:19,280 Speaker 1: did that muzzleloading. When I first started muzzleloading, I have 2020 01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:21,559 Speaker 1: to pull the hammer back on my muzzleloader. And I'm 2021 01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:23,840 Speaker 1: used to running a thirty six pump. I don't have 2022 01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:26,240 Speaker 1: to pull a hammer back or anything that's totally rooted 2023 01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:29,200 Speaker 1: foreign to me. You know, I don't. I'm not used 2024 01:44:29,240 --> 01:44:31,439 Speaker 1: to that. And so I was really concerned when I 2025 01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:33,160 Speaker 1: took that muzzleloader in the woods that I was going 2026 01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:35,040 Speaker 1: to freeze up at the moment of truth and try 2027 01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:37,680 Speaker 1: to pull the trigger without pulling that hammerback. So what 2028 01:44:37,800 --> 01:44:40,519 Speaker 1: I did was I told myself probably a thousand times 2029 01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:43,720 Speaker 1: every when I first started, you carrying that gun, pulled 2030 01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:46,040 Speaker 1: the hammer, pulled the hammer pull. I kept telling myself 2031 01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:47,880 Speaker 1: that is I'm walking along, you know, just mentally in 2032 01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:49,960 Speaker 1: my head, pull the hammer, pull the hammer, pull the hammer. 2033 01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:52,120 Speaker 1: I kept doing that, kept doing it, rop doing that 2034 01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:55,560 Speaker 1: when I shot my buck, I first buck with that muzzleloader. 2035 01:44:56,360 --> 01:45:00,400 Speaker 1: I don't remember pulling the hammer which did it, but 2036 01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:03,479 Speaker 1: I did because it won't fire unless I do so. 2037 01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:05,439 Speaker 1: If I could do that with the hammer, you could 2038 01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:07,519 Speaker 1: do that with your mental attitude too. I'm gonna get 2039 01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:09,280 Speaker 1: this buck. I'm gonna get this buck. I'm gonna get 2040 01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:12,160 Speaker 1: this deer. I'm gonna get this deer. And I'll tell 2041 01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:14,200 Speaker 1: you if you're out in the woods and you and 2042 01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:18,040 Speaker 1: you stop walking and you check your your GPS and 2043 01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:20,519 Speaker 1: you find out your three miles from the truck, and 2044 01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:23,040 Speaker 1: you're getting tired, and all of a sudden you start 2045 01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:26,599 Speaker 1: thinking about it all My back hurts three miles away. Oh, 2046 01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:28,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how many you know. It's you quit. 2047 01:45:29,439 --> 01:45:31,679 Speaker 1: You quit. You'll give buck if you if you start, 2048 01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:34,240 Speaker 1: if you if you let that voice inside your head 2049 01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:36,600 Speaker 1: start to mess with you, so you just and you 2050 01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:38,639 Speaker 1: can train yourself out of that. You can tell yourself, 2051 01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:40,559 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna get this buck. I'm 2052 01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:42,400 Speaker 1: gonna keep I'm gonna get this buck you know, and 2053 01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:44,920 Speaker 1: and and like I said, it not only helps you 2054 01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,240 Speaker 1: from that standpoint, I believe there's something else beside that. 2055 01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:49,800 Speaker 1: I think think the universe bends to you to some 2056 01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:54,160 Speaker 1: to some extent, just by things that I've experienced in 2057 01:45:54,240 --> 01:45:57,800 Speaker 1: my own life. It's it's amazing, you know, uh, when 2058 01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:01,600 Speaker 1: your attitude is right, how incredibly lucky you become. I 2059 01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:03,880 Speaker 1: think there's something to it too. I'm a d percent 2060 01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:06,599 Speaker 1: right there with you. There's something. I don't think there's 2061 01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:11,280 Speaker 1: anything more important in the hunting pursuit, more important than 2062 01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:17,880 Speaker 1: your mental state than being positive, being mentally tough, mentally focused. 2063 01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:20,840 Speaker 1: Um and and you you described a lot of the 2064 01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:22,960 Speaker 1: things that I try to do that self talk is 2065 01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:26,560 Speaker 1: so important. Like sometimes no matter how how much of 2066 01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:28,600 Speaker 1: a positive person you might be, or how confident a 2067 01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,320 Speaker 1: person might be, at least in my case, I find 2068 01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:34,160 Speaker 1: myself I think I'm pretty darned positive and pretty confident 2069 01:46:34,200 --> 01:46:35,880 Speaker 1: in a lot of things that I'm doing. But I'll 2070 01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:37,920 Speaker 1: still you'll still have that doubt creep and you'll still 2071 01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,519 Speaker 1: have that frustration creep in. But I think I think 2072 01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:44,519 Speaker 1: there's value in being able to identify when that's happening 2073 01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:47,240 Speaker 1: and say hey, okay, well I see what's happening here 2074 01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:50,120 Speaker 1: in your own mind, and you kind of say, all right, 2075 01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:52,760 Speaker 1: that's that frustration creep in and I see it. I'm 2076 01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:56,679 Speaker 1: stopping it right now, and and just start telling yourself 2077 01:46:56,760 --> 01:46:59,640 Speaker 1: like you just said, it's you know, any second, ow 2078 01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:02,120 Speaker 1: can angs. You just gotta stay ready and the second 2079 01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:04,840 Speaker 1: out that big Buck might comen walking her and his second. Now, 2080 01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:07,040 Speaker 1: all the bad luck you've been having that's going to change. 2081 01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:09,679 Speaker 1: You just gotta, like you said, will it into existence 2082 01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:12,840 Speaker 1: sometimes And let you know, if you're positive and and 2083 01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:15,839 Speaker 1: working hard and doing the right things, sometimes the universe 2084 01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:18,519 Speaker 1: will present that opportunity. You just got to be ready 2085 01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:22,320 Speaker 1: there to take it. And um, what's interesting is is 2086 01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:24,600 Speaker 1: I actually started doing a study on this a little bit, 2087 01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:26,960 Speaker 1: and I never really followed through on it. But um, 2088 01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:31,519 Speaker 1: I've got all the annoying information, all the books and 2089 01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:35,559 Speaker 1: the DVDs A and uh. One thing that I noticed 2090 01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:38,920 Speaker 1: because I studied this quite a lot, the mental aspect 2091 01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:41,240 Speaker 1: of things. When I was going through the annoyed books, 2092 01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:45,200 Speaker 1: I started noticing that popping out of what was getting written. 2093 01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:47,880 Speaker 1: And so I started one day I went back through 2094 01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:51,880 Speaker 1: when I started copying all the times that that was mentioned. Um, 2095 01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:54,799 Speaker 1: don't worry about what's going on at home. Stay focused. 2096 01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:56,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to get the deer. I always think I'm 2097 01:47:56,920 --> 01:47:59,360 Speaker 1: gonna get every deer I hunt. I mean this. Those 2098 01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:02,840 Speaker 1: themes are in in the Benoits books. And you may 2099 01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:07,559 Speaker 1: think they're suproved trackers or excellent woodsman. I think they're 2100 01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:12,920 Speaker 1: fantastic manifestos. I think they're tapping more than just hunting, 2101 01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:17,880 Speaker 1: you know. And and um Bruce Bruce Townsley, when he 2102 01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:20,840 Speaker 1: wrote the book and he spent a lot of time 2103 01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:25,000 Speaker 1: with Lanny the Oldest Boy, he made a statement in 2104 01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:27,400 Speaker 1: the book. He says, Lanny, when he enters the woods, 2105 01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:30,160 Speaker 1: he's in a zen like state, that focus is so 2106 01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:34,080 Speaker 1: sharp and and it must impressed him because he impressed 2107 01:48:34,160 --> 01:48:35,800 Speaker 1: him enough that he actually wrote it into the book. 2108 01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,600 Speaker 1: So you know, that's that that mental aspect of that. 2109 01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:43,759 Speaker 1: You know. I think that annoys are they're successful because 2110 01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,360 Speaker 1: of it. And I think if you look at anybody, 2111 01:48:46,760 --> 01:48:51,360 Speaker 1: I don't care if it's business, personal sports, I think 2112 01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:55,000 Speaker 1: you're going to see that theme. Yeah. I tend to agree. 2113 01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:58,880 Speaker 1: I think anyone who has reached a level of excellence, 2114 01:48:59,160 --> 01:49:04,519 Speaker 1: there's a very strong mental mastery component, being able to men, 2115 01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:08,160 Speaker 1: being able to master your inner self and your attitude 2116 01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:10,519 Speaker 1: and all those things that to your point, I think 2117 01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:13,800 Speaker 1: it's a very consistent across those in that top tier 2118 01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:16,560 Speaker 1: of any kind of pursuit. So in the end, like 2119 01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:18,600 Speaker 1: you said, it is something that doesn't get discussed a 2120 01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:21,760 Speaker 1: whole lot when it comes to hunting and tactics and stuff. 2121 01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:23,280 Speaker 1: Like you said, sometimes people want to kind of turn 2122 01:49:23,320 --> 01:49:26,599 Speaker 1: and walk away from that kind of discussion. Um, it's 2123 01:49:26,680 --> 01:49:29,479 Speaker 1: it's a little bit outside of the realm of pinch 2124 01:49:29,560 --> 01:49:33,519 Speaker 1: points and tracks and grunting and bucks. But um, but 2125 01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:35,800 Speaker 1: really there's a whole lot to it, I think. Um, 2126 01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:39,360 Speaker 1: So I'm really glad you mentioned that it's uh, it's 2127 01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:42,080 Speaker 1: hard to put a finger on exactly how to control it, 2128 01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:45,200 Speaker 1: like you said, but um, but I do think there's 2129 01:49:45,240 --> 01:49:47,600 Speaker 1: something to be said for it is being. It is 2130 01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:50,600 Speaker 1: a learned trait is a practice. It is something that 2131 01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:53,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you're thinking about it and trying to 2132 01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:55,560 Speaker 1: be more focused, trying to be more positive, trying to 2133 01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:59,599 Speaker 1: be you know, enter somewhat whatever that whatever is then 2134 01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:03,040 Speaker 1: mean to you and each person individually. Um, Being in 2135 01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:06,160 Speaker 1: that state where you're fully present, where you were focused 2136 01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:11,519 Speaker 1: where you are. Um, I don't know. I mean, like 2137 01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:13,240 Speaker 1: you said, it's hard to put words to it sometimes, 2138 01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:17,000 Speaker 1: but having that mental mastery, that mental focus and control 2139 01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:22,000 Speaker 1: and toughness, I think really is maybe the ultimate differentiator 2140 01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:26,160 Speaker 1: between your average running the mill person and the excellent, 2141 01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:30,960 Speaker 1: the expert. Um, the person who's kind of mastered anything 2142 01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:34,080 Speaker 1: and hunting is right there with anything else like football 2143 01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:37,160 Speaker 1: or business or whatever it might be. So that is 2144 01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:40,120 Speaker 1: a perfect way to wrap things, Upton, thank you for 2145 01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:43,439 Speaker 1: bringing that up. No, I know that you've got a 2146 01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:46,400 Speaker 1: few other resources online that that people that want to 2147 01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:48,400 Speaker 1: learn more about this kind of stuff and more about 2148 01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:51,479 Speaker 1: your experiences and expertise. Um, there's some places they can 2149 01:50:51,520 --> 01:50:54,000 Speaker 1: do that, right Where can they go online to find that? Yeah, 2150 01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:58,880 Speaker 1: I've got a Probably the best spot is I've got 2151 01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:02,240 Speaker 1: a Facebook blue Um, I've got a Facebook site, But 2152 01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:03,840 Speaker 1: I also have a group, and the group is kind 2153 01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,960 Speaker 1: of the fun place because that's what we do a 2154 01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:09,840 Speaker 1: lot of our our stuff. It's a lot of interaction. Uh. 2155 01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:15,960 Speaker 1: I do some online tutorials, live videos, I share a 2156 01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:18,360 Speaker 1: lot of things on that site and then then people 2157 01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:20,600 Speaker 1: can interact back, which is the fun part about it 2158 01:51:20,760 --> 01:51:23,800 Speaker 1: is is uh people can interact back to me on 2159 01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:28,240 Speaker 1: that and UM, that's a Facebook group page. It's Misty 2160 01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:31,720 Speaker 1: River Trackers base camp is what I call it. And 2161 01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:36,560 Speaker 1: then uh, and then I also have a website, uh www. 2162 01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:41,080 Speaker 1: Misty River Trackers dot com. And that's uh a good 2163 01:51:41,240 --> 01:51:44,760 Speaker 1: place where I kind of draw everything together. UM. I 2164 01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:47,280 Speaker 1: have all most of my resources listed out there, or 2165 01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:50,439 Speaker 1: how to find all the resources that I have. UM. 2166 01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:55,000 Speaker 1: It's also gonna be on my online store for tracking class, 2167 01:51:55,520 --> 01:52:00,479 Speaker 1: offering a tracking class, teach this and other things. I'll 2168 01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:03,360 Speaker 1: have logo hats and so forth. UM. As a matter 2169 01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:04,960 Speaker 1: of fact that I'm going to be talking to a 2170 01:52:05,520 --> 01:52:10,000 Speaker 1: clothing manufacturer coming up here about a tracking jacket hat, 2171 01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:12,960 Speaker 1: um and some other things. I don't know what's going 2172 01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:15,040 Speaker 1: to happen to that. We haven't really talked too much 2173 01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:17,960 Speaker 1: about it yet, just kind of in the inter beginning 2174 01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:20,800 Speaker 1: stages of talking about that. But if something like that 2175 01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:23,519 Speaker 1: comes available, that will be on that store too. That's 2176 01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:26,439 Speaker 1: my website, is going to be my store basically for 2177 01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:29,360 Speaker 1: selling things. UM. And then I also like to mention 2178 01:52:29,479 --> 01:52:34,559 Speaker 1: one other site. UM. Troy Spooner uh started a site 2179 01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:39,479 Speaker 1: uh www Old School white Tails dot com. UM and 2180 01:52:39,560 --> 01:52:42,120 Speaker 1: he asked me to have import and help and and 2181 01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,439 Speaker 1: it's been a fun project. He wants to stress the 2182 01:52:46,240 --> 01:52:49,800 Speaker 1: old style way of doing things. Um. Uh, not a 2183 01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:51,760 Speaker 1: lot of fancy gear and not a lot of you know, 2184 01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:54,320 Speaker 1: high tech stuff or whatever. Just kind of like how 2185 01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,080 Speaker 1: your grandpa would have hunted, you know, that kind of thing, 2186 01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:00,400 Speaker 1: getting back to some of the roots of hunting and 2187 01:53:01,840 --> 01:53:05,920 Speaker 1: public land, big woods type situations. Uh, he's going to 2188 01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:07,639 Speaker 1: kind of cover a lot of those kind of things 2189 01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:10,040 Speaker 1: on that site. So, um, a lot of really cool 2190 01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:14,439 Speaker 1: stuff out there. Uh that's uh www, old school white 2191 01:53:14,479 --> 01:53:18,160 Speaker 1: tails dot com. So go check that out too. Great. 2192 01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:22,439 Speaker 1: There's something to be said about just the woodsmanship and 2193 01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:25,360 Speaker 1: uh sometimes that's a lost art. So I think that's 2194 01:53:25,400 --> 01:53:28,240 Speaker 1: great that that you guys are covering that kind of 2195 01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:30,840 Speaker 1: that kind of content and making sure that folks can 2196 01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:34,559 Speaker 1: can keep learning about that. I I think there's value 2197 01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:38,000 Speaker 1: for sure. So and there's been value with all of this, Todd. 2198 01:53:38,080 --> 01:53:40,160 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for taking the time to 2199 01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:42,960 Speaker 1: share all this with me and our listeners. Um, I've 2200 01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:45,320 Speaker 1: really enjoyed it, so so thank you very much. Yeah, 2201 01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:47,880 Speaker 1: no problem, it's been funny. I've had a good time 2202 01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:51,560 Speaker 1: to let's chat against him, all right? And that is 2203 01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:54,360 Speaker 1: a rap today. So thank you all for listening, appreciate 2204 01:53:54,439 --> 01:53:57,320 Speaker 1: you tune for this one. Hopefully you've been inspired to 2205 01:53:57,360 --> 01:53:59,479 Speaker 1: at least pay attention to tracks a little bit more 2206 01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:02,880 Speaker 1: and know I have. So until next time, best of luck, shot, 2207 01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:07,599 Speaker 1: dunning or scouting, and until we chat again, stay wired 2208 01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:09,640 Speaker 1: to hunt. H