WEBVTT - How Creatives Get Wealthy w/ Ryan Leslie 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:04.439 I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tach, Green Money. 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:09.200 Ryan Leslie is a Grammy nominated musician and producer, having 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.799 produced hits for artists like New Addition and Cassie, which 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.880 he found in nurtured as an artist, and wrote and 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.480 produced her hit single Me and You. He's also founder 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:23.080 as Superphone, which helps creatives and businesses increase engagement, drive revenue, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.280 and build better relationships with SMS, m ands marketing. I've 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.880 been a fan of Ryan since I heard about his 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:30.720 work in the early two thousands, So this is what 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.720 is the phone for me. We're seeing so many of 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.159 our great artists selling their catalogs and the rights to 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.840 their music for sums that are very large and others 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.200 that are at least we as the public don't feel 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.879 are large enough. I asked Ryan to explain what's happening 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.040 in the music business that's brought on this trend of 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.240 sell off with so many others are preaching ownership. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:50.640 Yeah. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.920 Well, I would say for me, when you look at 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.960 money in hands versus money in the future, there's a 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.959 lot more that can be done with money in hand, 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:05.000 and that's what's so important. And so when you have 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:11.800 the ability to navigate financial markets, navigate investments, decide whether 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.959 you want to make investments in a number of different categories. 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.399 The way financial markets work is it takes money to 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:25.240 make money, and so to actually decide to say, Okay, 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.119 maybe I have two hundred million dollars at some point 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:32.440 in the future versus the ability to actually put that 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:37.560 money to work right now, in my opinion, becomes a 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:42.040 no brainer when you have that much future value that 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:43.679 can be unlocked immediately. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.160 So what kind of artists does it make sense for 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.080 If you're on the other side, you're a financier and 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.040 you're seeing, Okay, here's this artist X and they've had 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.080 some pop hits. They've had some hits that you know, 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.400 some would argue are not like, you know, classic, but 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.600 they maybe hits. What at what point does it make 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.200 sense for them to have conversations with artists where you know, 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:07.960 though that long term value is. 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:12.960 There right Well, what I would say is this is very, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:14.960 very detailed and data driven. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.440 So they just look at the streams. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.639 They look at what they would call steady state, meaning hey, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.519 no matter how long it's been since this record came out, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.320 this is how much money is being generated on a 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:31.880 consistent basis, and so they make an extrapolation on the 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.359 catalog to decide what they believe the future value of 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.480 that catalog will be. And that's how they that's how 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.919 they do these deals. These deals are very, very specific. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.040 It had nothing to do with the subjective. Do I 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:44.640 like the songs? 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.160 I like the catalog? They literally just look at. 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:51.840 How many streams are these records making, and how many 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:57.959 streams are these records generating, and what is the actual 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:04.720 what will actually be a great return on investment for 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.560 them in terms of ownership, and then obviously the partnership 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.240 and when we look at some of the big players 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.720 that are doing this, the partnerships are able to potentially 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.240 even rejuvenate the music. 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:17.480 Right. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.880 So when you have investors who also have their hands 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:28.239 in film, television, sports, other arenas of entertainment, then they're 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.440 able to acquire these catalogs and then give a song 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.280 of brand new life because now it is the soundbed 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.360 for a hit series somewhere, right, So they understand what 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.440 they need to do to actually take this to the 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.640 next level. And it's you know, when you talk about 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:48.840 the accounting and the mathematics that's done in order to 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.760 come to the valuations of these catalogs is very it's 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:53.720 very data driven. 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:55.760 At the risk of making this even a little bit 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.800 more technical, you know, we hear this argument from artists 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:00.960 talking about, you know, they may get point zero zero 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:05.240 zero zero five to seven cents on these streams. But 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.720 then you have these you know, financers who obviously see 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:10.880 the math and you know, they believe that they can 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.520 get their their investment back. What is it that they're 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.000 taking advantage of that that artist can't take advantage of 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.160 to be able to make that math math. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.880 Well, they're taking advantage of money up front. Okay, So 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.280 that's you just have to think about this, all right. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.360 So if and just for simple math, let's just do it. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.000 Let's think about it in terms of simple math, all right. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.120 So let's just say you got a penny per stream, 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.279 all right, instead of breaking it down to the fractional 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.200 it means a million streams you would get you would 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:42.880 get ten thousand dollars, all right. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.680 So when you have a record that just you know, goes. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:52.640 Crazy, right, ten million streams, one hundred thousand, right, a 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.680 billion streams, right, ten million dollars. Right. So when you 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:01.000 really think about this, the ability for these records to 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.920 actually generate this and if the artist wants to wait 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:11.360 until the revenue is paid out, then obviously they can 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.960 wait the difference though, And you know, this is kind 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.960 of what I've definitely worked with a number of artists 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.479 that have come to me that are looking for mentorship 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.200 in terms of how to get their finances right. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:22.480 Is. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:27.280 Look, when you have the ability to navigate the financial 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.559 markets in the right way, you can take one hundred 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.720 k today and turn it into two hundred thousand by 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.520 June of this year. You know. So you know, we've 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.279 got folks, I got our artist managers, etc. 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:41.160 That I work with. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.760 They'll come to me the beginning of the year and say, look, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.080 you know, I just got this advance and I'm looking 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.640 to actually go ahead and make it stretch. You know, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.520 I know that the label is going to take care 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.520 of all of the expenses, but this advance, I need 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.479 this to stretch. And so really it's about giving people 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:05.359 the edgection that has been missing from the our middle 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.719 school to high school to college education system. 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.720 How do you navigate financial markets? 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.400 And this is these are these are concepts that are 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.359 really you know, very very We talk about middle school 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.240 math to understand they have just been sort of shrouded 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.680 in secrecy up to this point. And so the difference 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.160 is not that an independent artist or an artist would 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:31.160 not be able to realize that, uh those returns. It's 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.520 just do they actually have the ability to sit around 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.440 and wait for that to actually be accrued to them. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.800 The difference is when someone has money, their money is 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.240 losing money if it's just sitting there. So when you're 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.120 an artist and you don't have the money and you're 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.480 waiting for the money to come to you, well, then 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.840 that's great because at some point that is some some 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.400 some value that will be accrue to you in the 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.159 future when you are financia or you actually are even 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.280 an artist that has money that's just sitting there. When 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.880 that money is not deployed, then it's actually losing money. 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.280 And so that's why I went especially over the last 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.080 couple of years, where we saw the rife that was 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.640 you know what was the we found financial markets that 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:24.640 were reeling from over extension due to all the money 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.440 that had been you know, sort of pumped into the economy. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.200 That is when you started to see smart folks looking 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.000 for alternative places to put the money to work. Because 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.880 the usual places where they would put money to work, Google, Apple, Amazon, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.800 the Nasdaq, the S and P five hundred, those places 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.760 were over extended, and that money, while it was deployed 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.760 in those places, those far reaches of the financial markets, 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.440 was actually moving in the opposite direction that was desired. 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.760 And so when you can find and alternative ways to 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.840 put the money to work where those returns are let's say, 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.920 uncorrelated to the stock market, then that really becomes a 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:11.920 prudent investment. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.880 You've seen like as many of us have these you know, 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:21.800 fake drake AI, you know, recreations of artists and their sound. 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.960 And I wonder with us, with us giving up these rights, 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.080 do you foresee any potential regret that may come because 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.120 we don't know what, you know, these things may be valuable, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.079 what the value of these things may be. Because AI 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.680 blockchain the center is happening so fast. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.040 Yeah, I think to look at it that way is 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.480 really looking at it from a scarcity mindset. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:43.800 Right. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.600 It's almost like when I first got into the music business, 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.719 there was a record I had that I thought was 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.720 gonna be my singles called hot Tonight. The single ended 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.400 up being a single for New Edition, and I just 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.440 knew at that juncture. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.560 Being a creative when you look at just. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.920 Life in general, as a creator, you want to be 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.839 able to create. And so, yeah, maybe you have the 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.480 song that got away, maybe you have the you know, 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:18.679 the show idea that got away nine time out of ten. Okay, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:24.000 when you decide to put that piece of intellectual property 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:30.000 into the hands of a different custodian, the hopefully that 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.719 custodian has an incentive to actually make that a very 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:39.040 increase the value of whatever you have have delivered to them. 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.480 And so in a case of new edition, in the 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.640 case of writing and producing me and you for Cassie, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.400 for example, instead of thinking of this from a scarcity 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.280 mindset and saying, oh, you know, if I give this 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.360 catalog away, you know, you know what did I leave 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.520 on the table? I am always thinking in terms of 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.760 my gift is the fact that for what they just bought, 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.080 I can actually create one hundred two hundred one thousand 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.000 more and they wouldn't even have to pay me to 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:07.280 do it. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.360 It's something I want to do anyway. 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.280 So whether they paid me upfront now to do this 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.000 or they didn't, I would still be in the studio 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:16.640 the next day. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.520 Deciding that I wanted to create. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.800 And so when we look at our lives from that 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.199 through that lens, when we look at our lives through 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.640 that lens, we are able to really kind of strip 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:34.320 away all of those kind of distractions around what really matters. 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.800 And money really is just currency. It just kind of 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.439 flows through accounts if it comes to your account. The 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.640 only difference is and the reason why you want it 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.559 to flow through your account is because you can exercise 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:50.199 control on where it is distributed. And so really, the 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.960 shrewd musician, the shrewd businessman, the shrewd person in general 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.079 is looking to understand the science because it really is 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.000 a science of how to get currency to flow through 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.760 your accounts, because when it flows through your accounts, you 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.280 can direct the flow. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.520 I want to talk to you about your brand a 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.560 little bit. I've been following you for a long time. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.800 I meet YouTube videos where you would jump off the 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.720 keys onto the drums, jump off the drums onto the guitar, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.959 and it will be these You were a pioneer in 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.079 that way, you showing that one person could be in 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:24.760 the studio doing all these things. I mean, you had 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:26.480 artists who could do that, but they didn't have the 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.640 gift of YouTube to be able to show the world. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.439 And what we've learned about brand is that if you 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.079 can build a successful brand, people will follow you wherever. 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.640 They'll go, buy your thing, they'll come to your show, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.599 et cetera. Congrats on your successful crowdfunding raise. What have 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.880 you learned about storytelling and branding that allows you to 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.680 deploy your brand in any direction you wish? 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.800 Yeah, I think really stories are what connect humans and 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.319 even just what we're doing right now, we're telling stories 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.079 and that's why people are going to tune in. And 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.600 stories are the way that we convey and communicate. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:07.559 Our value to one another. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.560 And so whatever it is that you do, your ability 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.480 to tell a story, a story of success, a story 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.040 of challenge, a story of obstacle, a story where people 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.560 can relate and see themselves in that story, that will 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.800 give you sort of a universal appeal on a human level. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.120 And when you strip away, hey is this music, is 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:29.040 this technology? 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.800 Is this finance? And you get down to the human 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.920 level and you realize, hey, what is it that people 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:35.959 really want? Well, they want to live their best lives. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.280 They want to be able to spend time with those 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.439 that they love, they want to be able to not 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.679 have to trade their time to be employed in some 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.719 kind of work that they you know, that they that 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.240 they wish they could do something else. So when you 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.960 can help people to improve their lives in that way, 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.680 whether it's just hey, you know, a record that they 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.760 can play over and over and over again when they're 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.040 at the job that they probably wish they were doing 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.120 something else, or when when they are able to learn 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.760 how to to finance whatever it is, maybe it's a 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.760 new business or a vacation that they might have, or 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.959 or some medical procedure that will you know, or to 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.000 hire a trainer or get to the gym, whatever it is, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.040 to eat better. You start realizing that as you can 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:30.400 empower people to live their best life, the brand therefore 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:31.720 becomes universal. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.400 Aside from Prince, you probably want them at least my 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.240 earliest memories on people talking about, you know, ownership and 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.320 taking your own path in the music business, and again 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.559 back to those early YouTube days. What was obvious to 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.120 you about because you had labels coming to you saying 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.319 here here's the contract, and you decided to take your 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:57.120 own path, what was obvious to you was obviously not obvious. 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.440 No point intended to so many other talented mes issues. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:02.680 Yeah, I think really. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.520 Music is one piece and the business is another. And 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:15.240 what we understand now, which became very very apparent to 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.920 me early on, is that those businesses who had a 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:25.160 direct relationship with their customers were going to be the 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.120 businesses that would have exponential success. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:29.600 What does that mean? 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.360 That means that when I am a massing of following 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:38.160 on any platform, that platform, because it's free, I am 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.920 the product, meaning that Instagram is selling me to acquire 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.160 data and users. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:44.480 Right. 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.880 And though it may seem that I am a massing 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.840 of following, when I look at the engagement, when I 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.080 look at the clickthroughs, when I look at the conversions, 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.520 I'm saying, wow, I really don't own these people. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:15:00.160 And it was very very i would say, very very clear. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:06.320 When we had built this quarter million person following on 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.200 MySpace with Cassie and then all of a sudden that 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:15.000 was no longer the platform DuJour, and so once everyone 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.320 migrated away, we realized, oh man, we got to go 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.120 do this all over again, and what a what a 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.440 shame and a waste of time, energy and resources to 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.120 go and do it all over again. So really, for me, 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:31.280 it's always just been about understanding that the companies in 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.640 which I invested when I got my advanced checks, the Amazon, 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:40.760 the Google, the Apple, the Facebook, now Meta, those companies 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:46.040 were really very clearly paving the way for businesses that 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.960 had a direct relationship with their customers and not just 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.960 the ability to contact them, but the ability to build 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.680 a profile, to personalize the products and services that were offered. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.360 Those were the business that would be able to thrive, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:02.760 and in their. 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.440 Ingenuity and their ability to create an infrastructure to do 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.760 this for themselves, they were able to build platforms on 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.240 which other businesses could also be built. The number of 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:20.119 people who have built multimillion dollar businesses on Amazon's platform, 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.320 the number of people who utilize Facebook's advertising network to 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.120 build multimillion dollar or multimillion dollar businesses, the number of 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:33.080 folks who rely on Google's cloud services, the same cloud 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:37.600 services that they use to deliver their products and services 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:42.360 to their users. You find that the ability to have 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.160 that kind of close relationship with those who support you 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.920 allows you to refine your products and services so that 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.280 you can even price them in a premium fashion, and 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.240 so that also reduces the number of people, the number 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.120 of customers, the number of supporters that you need to 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.640 hit a threshold financially. 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.119 To live and thrive in business. The way that you were, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.480 that you that you aspire and in the way that 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:08.160 you aspire. 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.680 So I became aware of you in early two thousands, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.960 late ninety late nineteen nineties, I was writing for Brian 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.440 Michael Cox. I was a songwriter and him and a 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.000 guy named a Donna Shropshire, you might know a Donna's 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.280 we're having a conversation about you. And we were at 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.480 Doppler in Atlanta. Oh, we had stink Onnia in Atlanta, actually, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.359 and the reason your name came up was because they 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.240 were talking about ownership and studios like you were. You 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.159 were the only guy back then when everybody else was 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.440 written our studio time, you were building your own and 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.840 buying your own equipment, your own keyboards and your own 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.440 drums and stuff. And that's how I became aware of 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.880 Ryan Leslie or Less. And we have these conversations about, well, 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.280 if we got you know, the Lebron James of the 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.720 world to go to Africa and build the NBA there, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.240 like they could own it and they don't have to 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.160 be tied to this organization. And if the jay Z's 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.760 of the world built over or wherever else they could 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:10.159 start their own. Why do those things not connect to 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.240 reality in the way that we don't have the people 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:17.280 who have this amount of wealth and power decide to 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:21.960 seceed away from institutional organizations and build their own in 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.879 different ways. I mean, you have ice Q doing it 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.280 like with the Big Three, but you don't have it's 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.160 not like a proliferation of people taking it away from 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.640 the institution and doing it on their own like you did. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.480 Yeah, well, I would say that first and foremost, though, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:41.359 there is an infrastructure in a history with those institutions 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:47.520 that allows them to continue to grow, acquire, consolidate to 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.240 the point where like the government has to get involved 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:51.440 and say, hey, antitrust. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.080 Right, So that's number one. 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.680 Number two, we also need to think about the fact that, 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.560 you know, we are probably just one generation away from 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.920 the kind of wealth that we control as a people. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.200 To do that, when we think of the institutions, those 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.399 institutions were built on our backs, and to build on 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.520 the backs of those to amass that kind of wealth 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.920 and influence, you had to actually you had to do 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.040 that in such a way that completely separated them from 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.080 the math and mechanics around how. 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.440 To actually generate that kind of wealth. 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.280 And so we are starting to see this now. But 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.159 how many players in the NBA did it take? How 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.080 many success stories and failures did it take for us 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.200 to have a billionaire athlete in a short amount of 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.800 time as it took for Lebron to get there. How 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:49.119 many artists did it take, mega, massive, ultra multi extra 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.040 platinum artists did it take to have the ability for 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.920 a jay Z to then shorten the time for Rihanna 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.280 to get to that billionaire status. And at the end 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.680 of the day, when we think about this, we need many, many, 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.399 many many of those folks, and then we also need 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:12.320 sort of care, concern, consideration, and collaboration to actually happen 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.560 amongst them. And what we've seen so often, especially in 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:25.080 our community, is that besides, almost in contrast to care, consideration, concern, 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.760 and collaboration, we have competition, right, And so when we 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:33.919 have that, it starts to sort of pit us against 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.640 one another as opposed to having the kind of fabric 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:42.159 that can actually collectively when the money's pooled, when the 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:46.000 influence is pooled, to actually build the way that we 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:47.760 want to build, and so I think we're probably just 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:48.960 one generation a way. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.000 One of the business lessons I learned later than I 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.159 wish I would have, but I did learn it was 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:59.000 about reinvesting the profits. So yeah, because you you know, 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.760 put in nine hundred, you got a thousand, don't go 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.160 spend that hundred. Put the one hundred in to grow. 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:05.119 You know the. 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:11.639 Origination. So obviously you learned that lesson and you were one, 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:13.840 you were the one buying your own equipment in et cetera. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:15.879 How did you learn that lesson? And how do you 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.280 communicate it to other entrepreneurs or creatives who would be 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.760 entrepreneurs to take the revenue that they generate put it 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:24.399 back in. Because I heard you say before and the 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:26.159 end of the interview which we were talking about you 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.680 were completely fan funded in so many ways. 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:33.639 Yes, yes, And I would say that that reinvestment is 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.359 on so many different levels. It's not just finances, it's time, energy, 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.239 and resources. And those resources are not just finances, it's 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.800 time and energy as well. So what I would say 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.680 is Number one, I had great mentor. I had a 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.439 great mentor and other great mentors, and I showed up 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.280 the way I needed to when I had the ability 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:01.000 to actually learn, and I invested in my relationship with 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.440 those mentors because I wanted to. Just as we saw 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:10.920 Rihanna's ability pathway to one billion dollars was roughly half, 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.719 if not shorter than Jay Z's pathway to a billion dollars. 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.040 And that really is a direct correlation to the kind 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.600 of mentorship but also the ability for the mentee to 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.600 show up and be coachable. And so as I you know, 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.120 it kind of touched on the beginning of this interview, 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.919 I personally because I am only where I am today 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:36.600 because a great mentor took an interest in actually, you know, 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.840 investing time with me. Obviously I compensated that mentor, but 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.720 took an interest and gave me a shot. I have 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:50.240