WEBVTT - S4: EP 9 — Three Little Birds 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.920 Hey guys. Before we dive into the episode, we have 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.800 exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.719 online community. We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, a place 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.440 where we dive deeper into the stories you hear on 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.720 this show. Please consider joining our community to gain access 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.840 to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, as well 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.800 as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:33.760 to Betrayal dot substack that's sub stack, or just go 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:38.559 to substack dot com, search beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.400 I want to go back to where we started with 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.919 the current family, back to early in the series, when 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.160 we learned that Caroline's husband Joel, had been caught having 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.000 sex in his police car. The day Joel was put 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.240 on disciplinary leave pending termination. He could no longer keep 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.680 his secret life a secret, so he finally came clean, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.880 and after an emotional family meeting, Joel awkwardly pulled at 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.920 his wedding ring, trying to pry it off his hand. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.399 He never removed his wedding ring, he always kept an on, 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.160 so he struggled for a long time, but finally gets 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.600 his ring off. Inside of it, I had engraved forever 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:29.000 and ever, and Joel sets it down on the fireplace 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:31.240 and just walked out the door. 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.679 It was April eleventh of twenty twenty two, the day 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.240 the world no longer made sense to Caroline. She was 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.959 at home with Nicole, just reeling and she needed her people. 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.280 One of those people was a woman. We're going to 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.240 call Suzanne. We've disguised her voice to protect her privacy. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.920 I remember exactly where we were. There was about seven 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:57.440 or eight of us in the car going up to 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.240 the Journey concert up in Denver. A friend was the 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.280 one who received the phone call, and I was sitting 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.800 right behind her, and her reaction was, oh my god, 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:08.959 is he okay? 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.760 And I'm like, oh my god. Suzanne's first fear was 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:15.920 that Joel had been injured in the line of duty. 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.639 And then this other person told me that Joel was 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.200 having an affair and that Caroline said that her life 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.239 is about to fall apart. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.600 I said, you know, let's go home. 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.079 So we literally pulled off the highway and pulled into 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:31.920 US seven eleven. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:34.960 They jumped out of that car and got her ride 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.280 to Caroline's house. There were no words that could make 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:43.400 it better, so Suzanne didn't try. She just listened and 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.160 cried with Caroline. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.399 And we literally must have sat at the table with 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.120 you know, wine and food from about seven o'clock till 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:58.440 about eleven thirty that night. While we're there, Caroline said 0:02:58.440 --> 0:02:59.960 that Joel was having an affair, was. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.240 Having an affair with multiple people. Suzanne's chest tightened as she 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.280 watched Caroline unravel. Her heart was broken for her friend. 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.639 That night would be the first of many they'd spend 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.800 together at Caroline's kitchen table. What Suzanne could have never 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:20.200 imagined was that she would soon need Caroline to return 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:37.560 the favor. I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:46.360 Episode nine, three Little Birds. Over the past several episodes, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.160 we've pulled back the curtain on Caroline's family and the 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:53.839 unraveling of her marriage to Joel Kern. Through conversations with relatives, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.480 close friends, and former officers from the Colorado Springs Police Department, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:04.760 we've worked a peace together a complex and often painful story. 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.000 Before we wrapped up this season, we decided to make 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.480 another trip out to Colorado Springs. It looked a lot 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.000 different on our last visit. The streets were blanketed in snow, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.880 and we carefully navigated the mountain town, taking in its 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.080 winter beauty. This time, spring was in the air, and 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.120 along with the change of seasons, there were changes in 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.120 the lives of Caroline and her friends. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.400 I'm like, this just must be for you, because this 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:34.800 is not. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.200 The first time we visited Colorado Springs to meet Caroline. 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.320 We were warmly welcomed into her Sunday supper club at home, 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.640 surrounded by her close friends. We shared a meal, some wine, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.640 and plenty of laughter, and gave us a glimpse into 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.719 her support system, the people who had stood by her 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.320 through the discovery of Joel's betrayal. Suzanne was often at 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.279 these dinners, but not that night. She was working training 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.440 for a new job. Her husband was there, though, and 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:12.960 spoke about his wife with great affection. When we returned recently, 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.039 we joined Caroline and Suzanne on a walk. It was 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.680 a windy one around a nearby lake on a typical 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.480 Colorado day. It was sunny with a view of Pike's Peak, 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.280 but that quickly changed to Cloud's rolling in around us. 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:30.799 Caroline recalled the unconditional support she had received from Suzanne 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.080 and her husband in her time of need. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:40.719 He and Suzanne had been at my house when my 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:41.640 life blew up. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:47.120 Witnessing Caroline's distress, Suzanne and her husband held each other 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:51.840 a little closer. Seeing firsthand how quickly a relationship can 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.400 be decimated, has an unsettling effect. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.240 They were the people who said, uh, you got to 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.080 get up so that we can go to Nicole's lacross game. 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.360 We're going to sit with you in the stands. We're 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.360 going to be next to Hey, this awards thing's going 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.040 on tonight. You don't need to go to that alone. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:09.800 We're going to go with you. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.840 They were those friends. They showed up and they were 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.679 one of those couples who truly enjoyed life together, running 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.920 marathon side by side, always up for an adventure. They 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.560 had met years earlier in another part of the country 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.640 and moved to Colorado Springs. But something beside the weather 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.080 had shifted since we were last in Colorado, something in 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:37.200 Suzanne's marriage. A few months ago, Caroline was away visiting 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.480 her daughter Nicole at college when she received a surprising 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.400 text from Suzanne. The message said. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.600 Okay, I just want to let you know I appreciate 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.520 you and I value what you have gone through. I've 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.120 been thinking about you a lot, and I said, I 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.080 really appreciate that. And then I got another text saying, Hey, 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.160 when you get home, let's sit down and chat. 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.400 The words of support weren't unusual, but it wasn't like 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:06.039 Suzanne to wait to chat in person. Normally, she'd just call. 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:11.040 Knowing what she had been through and knowing what she 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.960 was going through, I did not want to Ruin a weekend. 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.440 While Caroline was away, Suzanne stumbled upon something in her 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:24.880 own home that changed her entire life. Eighteen years into 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.560 their marriage, Suzanne discovered a series of emails that crossed 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.480 the line. Messages her husband had been exchanging with women 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.800 online and he had a fetish. She knew nothing about. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.920 That's all we can say legally about it. As she 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:45.000 kept reading, it became clear this had been going on 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:46.240 for a long time. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.600 After seeing the emails that I had seen, and I 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:51.800 just needed to run. 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.120 When Caroline returned home, Suzanne shared the whole story. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.160 The biggest hurt for me is that he would do 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.520 this and not be open enough in our marriage after 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.880 all that we've gone through. But that after hearing Caroline's 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:11.200 story and going through everything for the last couple of years. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.360 You didn't think about. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.320 Sitting me down and saying, I got to tell you 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.080 something like you don't think like what kind of secret 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:21.840 keeping is. 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.360 That Many women would have walked away if their husband 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.080 confessed to this behavior. Suzanne was the type of person 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.400 that would have been open to rebuilding if he had 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.840 told her the truth, and if he was committed to 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:37.480 addressing the behavior. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.320 And then in the end to find out that this 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:44.480 biggest secret that you had, you've kept for so many years. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.520 Instead of getting help, he was. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.560 Someone who was helping and supporting Caroline, knowing full well 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.880 the entire time that he was engaging in betrayal himself. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.640 Caroline was shaken, stunned. Really, Suzanne's husband was part of 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:02.480 her inner circle. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.760 He was an ally. He saw the pain the kids 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.839 and I went through like he witnessed the tears first hand. 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.360 Suzanne was devastated. She had always believed her husband was 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.800 the most loyal man in the world. He was her person, 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.920 so she told him to leave. They separated, and Suzanne 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.240 was left feeling lonely, distraught, and trying to make sense 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:36.679 of the life she thought she knew. Caroline was furious. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.600 My anger toward him. I couldn't even hide it. When 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.640 she disclosed to me what happened. I had just this 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:50.320 utmost hurt for her because of knowing what your chapter 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.440 of life has been and how long you've been with someone, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.400 and then to think now I have to start over 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.080 and figure life out by myself, Like how do you 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.960 recover from that? And knowing the array of emotions that 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:08.440 were about ready to come was so heartbreaking to watch. 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.160 Caroline had first hand knowledge of what lay ahead. She 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.800 knew the grief that accompanies betrayal and how it shakes 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.120 you to your core. It doesn't just break your heart, 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.720 it takes a toll on your whole body. 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.640 I've called her a couple of times, especially where I'm 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:27.920 like I just can't breathe. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:29.679 She's like, Okay, stop, what happened? 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:31.079 Nothing happened. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:31.960 I just can't breathe. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.320 I've had panic attacks, anxiety attacks, emotional attacks. 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.840 The weight of the separation really hit Suzanne after a 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:42.199 trip to visit her family. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.720 Coming home from visiting family is another rough day, ironically, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.079 because you come back to a life that is not 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.080 what you used to come back to. I don't have 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.080 that confidant and that person at my. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:56.040 House to lean on. 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.240 For Caroline, that's a familiar feeling. It's one she remembers 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.360 well from those first days of being an empty nester. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:11.080 Shortly after it was just me Nicole had left for 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:15.240 school and it was just me lost in silence at 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:15.720 the house. 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.520 So instead of being alone, Caroline would spend time with 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:24.480 people like Suzanne, friends who felt like family. Suzanne is 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.280 still in those early days. 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:28.680 I'm new at it right now, and I don't have 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.560 three years in I'm starting to think of it like 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:35.600 a death. You know, it never goes away. You compartmentalize, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.800 it's always going to be part of who you are 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.840 now and it makes you who you are in the future. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:42.480 But I don't think it ever goes away. 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.600 I wondered how long it takes for this trauma and 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.960 loss to no longer be the first thing you remember 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:51.960 when you open your eyes in the morning. 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:57.600 I actually just had a conversation with Nicole about this today. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.720 She her brother, and myself. We've confessed to each other 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:07.480 that a day does not start without remembering what he did. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.800 Suzanne shares the same experience. 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.040 I can have a good time going out with friends 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.720 and doing things, and then as soon as I turn 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.679 the corner to my house. Bam, it all hits me again. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.040 I wake up in the morning and I realize that 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:29.400 my house is empty. 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.280 Having a close friend who knows that feeling. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.800 I wouldn't trade her for anybody in the world right now, 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.360 because she does get it and she can answer those questions. 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:41.880 The fact that you can have a friend that has 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.360 these conversations with you is far and few between. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.880 I would never ever, ever, ever wish this on anyone ever. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.240 I would never want anyone to have the shock in 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.800 awe and have to sit and relive and then rethink 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.720 your entire life and question and if your family and 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.120 marriage was a fraud. I never want anyone to ever 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:09.400 experience that ever. And I think there's this piece of 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.720 me that feels attached to Susanna. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.760 As a result of this, I've learned a lot from her. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.080 She has taught me to be more open and honest 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:24.559 in my feelings about stuff. We're still being incredibly brutally honest, 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.680 where other times in friendships you don't have that opportunity 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:29.000 to be. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:55.280 I love you, I love you too. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.760 As we were getting closer to wrapping up Caroline's story, 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.360 I asked her to join me to talk about what 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.480 it has been like making this podcast. We've also seen 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.640 a lot of listener feedback this season and received emails 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.840 from people associated with the CSPD, and some of it 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:24.200 is pretty shocking. Here are some of our conversation. Caroline. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.120 I am so grateful that you shared your story with 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:32.440 us this season, and I'm curious about your experience. Would 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.440 you say it's been therapeutic. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:38.920 For you doing this podcast was very helpful. I mean 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.800 it wasn't just helpful to be able to finally say 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.880 my truth, finally tell my side, but I will also 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.080 tell you what was something that was also very helpful 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.400 and very therapeutic and very cathartic. What a lot of 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.240 people don't know about this podcast is everything I say 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.880 is vetted. There is nothing thing that I can recount 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.880 or big moments that is not fact checked, is not 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:11.080 looked through by or coroborated by two, three, four other parties. 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.920 Being able to have someone validate that this occurred it 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:18.080 was extremely important. 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.960 Yeah, I imagine that can be really powerful because it's 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:24.640 validating your lived experience. 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:25.800 Absolutely. 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.880 I want to move on to some comments from listeners, 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.080 and one thing I can say is people were really 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.240 invested in your story? Are you down to hear some 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.200 of them? I'd love to, Okay. The first one I'm 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.800 going to share is from a former CSPD officer. He writes, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.200 do your Betrayal podcast host and team. I've been listening 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.120 to Betrayal season four and I feel the need to 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.400 share how deeply the story affected me. I was one 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:58.400 class behind Joel Kern. Hearing what he did the multiple affairs, 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.440 lying to internal affairs and his family was shocking. What 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:07.760 devastated me even more was hearing how the department supported him. Meanwhile, 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.640 I served with honor for nearly fifteen years. I continuously 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.720 put my life on the line for this city. I 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.440 suffered a mental breakdown on the job and was later 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:22.680 diagnosed with PTSD and a traumatic brain injury, both directly 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.560 tied to my service. I never disgraced the badge. All 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.000 I did was ask for help, and I was denied 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.880 again and again. The department psychologist said he didn't actually 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.640 provide mental health care. I lost my job, I lost 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.560 my identity. My family and I had built our entire 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.640 life around my police career. Suddenly it was gone. I 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.680 spiraled into nearly a decade of depression. I drank heavily. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:53.160 I was suicidal. At first, listening to this podcast made 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.520 me sick. Then I felt ashamed, ashamed that I had 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.400 ever worn the same badge. But as I kept listening, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:04.040 became angry because I remember the culture and unethical behavior 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.120 among command staff. My betrayal didn't come from a spouse. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.399 It came from the department. I loved the one I 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.240 believed would stand behind me the way I stood behind 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.960 the public. It didn't thank you for telling hard stories. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.080 They matter. They remind the world that some of us 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.000 were thrown away, not because we failed, but because we 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.240 were no longer convenient. I won't share the name of 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.240 the email, but I think I think you know this individual. 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.000 I know who this person is and what their role 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:40.520 was in the department, and their role was what you 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.200 think of a police officer doing. I mean, you think 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.719 of this person as engaging in heroic acts in very 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.720 dangerous situations and circumstances. And knowing what this person did 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.760 and what his assignment was, this email fills me with 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:03.760 so much emotion. It just makes me feel nauseated to 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.720 know that someone like him was cast aside and not 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.000 provided the assistance and help that truly could have saved 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.640 his career, truly could have saved him as an individual. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.200 It's just incredibly disheartening to me. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.159 It is disheartening. I mean, I guess all I can 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.760 say is I'm grateful for this person's service and grateful 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.200 that they felt safe enough to write in and share 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.160 their story with us. And I hope this person feels 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:36.080 hurt and appreciated. He's very much appreciated. Okay, This next 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.679 email is interesting because it's not just from a different state, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.399 it's a different country. She writes, thank you for putting 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.480 season four out. I was married to a former police 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.439 officer in Calgary who is almost the same person as 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.199 Joel Kern. The only difference is that the police service 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.760 swept it all under the rug. My ex was able 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.399 to resign in twenty twenty one while under five investigations. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.360 Since he chose to resign before he was fired, he 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.520 has no record and can become a police officer anywhere 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:11.240 in Canada. Unfortunately, these psychopaths get away with their crimes. 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:16.880 Thank you for making these things known. It is wild 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:22.520 that someone in Canada has such a similar experience to you. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:24.480 Is that surprising to you? 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.080 I don't think that my story is necessarily an anomaly 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.520 in the sense that I was married to a police officer. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:33.920 I knew what I was getting when I was married 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.399 to a cop. I knew that he would have to 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.960 work nights. I knew that there would be weird hours. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:39.720 I knew there would be times he would not be 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.200 able to be home for holidays or special events. These 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.800 are things that I accepted. What I did not sign 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.240 up for, and I did not accept, was for him 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.120 to deface his badge and was for him to defy 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.960 our marital vows. I did not sign up for that, right. 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.879 You didn't, And I think it's safe to say that 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.840 in your case, and I would argue in the case 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.000 of the person that wrote in that all the allowances 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.600 you guys made to help accommodate their job and their 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.480 work schedules were exploited. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:15.800 Yes, absolutely, one hundred percent. 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.040 Okay, we're going to talk about one more email, and 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.560 it was one that we recently received, and it was 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.960 a shock to our team when we received it. We 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.800 said it to you, you've had some time to digest it. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.679 I mean I should say it's a shock, but not 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.560 a complete surprise, because you know, having heard the number 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:41.240 of people Joel was having affairs with. It's tough, But 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.800 to your point earlier about validation, I think it's important 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.760 for us to discuss it. Okay, okay, here we go 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.520 to the host of Betrayal podcast. I don't know if 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.760 my conscience will ever be clean, but writing you is 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.480 a first step. I am one of Joel Kern's affairs. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.440 Was my lieutenant, and he held power. He also made 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.159 me believe we were in a relationship and had a future. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.159 I remember seeing Caroline and talked to her a few times. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.000 She'd show up to the substation with dinner for him 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.680 or cake and ice cream for everyone. For special occasions. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.199 She told our shift that everyone was welcome to eat 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.880 Thanksgiving dinner at their home if we had nowhere to go. 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.479 One year, she made Christmas dinner for the entire shift 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.360 and set up a photo booth. I guess that's why 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.719 it was flattering. When Joel started complimenting me. He started 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.520 flirting with me and sending messages. When I was out, 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.160 he asked what I looked like in regular clothes. Then 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.240 he asked me to meet him for dinner on shift. 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.680 Things started crossing the line and getting romantic. I told 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.879 him that I couldn't believe he wanted someone like me 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.200 when he had a pretty wife and kids. He told 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:52.760 me that Caroline was only good to look at and 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.280 said that she was sick with arthritis and didn't pay 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.760 attention to him. Joel said she couldn't do anything or 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.679 go anywhere. He said she was always in bed and 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.800 he couldn't divorce her since she was so sick. I 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.880 believed him. We had sex at my house after work 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.560 and a few times before. I felt guilty when we 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.000 had sex in his office because of all the pictures 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.720 of his wife and kids around. He told me the 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.399 pictures were for show. I started to realize I wasn't 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.440 the only one he was sleeping with. I was embarrassed 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:27.320 and ashamed. A friend showed his Facebook page. I was 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:29.760 so mad when I saw pictures of Joel and Caroline 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.320 after she ran a marathon. I confronted him about her 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.119 being sick. How did she run a marathon if she 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.639 was so sick. He laughed at me and told me 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:41.240 I didn't know what I was talking about. I know 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:43.960 I'm not the only affair he had at CSPD, but 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:45.920 every day I wish I wasn't one of the people 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.760 on his roster. If Caroline gets these emails, then I 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:51.880 want her to know that I'm very sorry and hope 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.520 she can move forward. This email is a great example 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.399 of you know, what we explored in this season is 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.080 you know, as you're trying to move forward and just 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.959 live your life, you know, you take three steps and 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:11.479 then bam, new information, a new affair you didn't see coming, 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:14.320 and it's just another blow. It's just another hit. 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:22.560 I'm desensitized to hearing about affairs like that. Part doesn't 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:29.399 hit my soul hearing this email. The part that just 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:33.520 as a gut punch to me is hearing the manipulation 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:39.240 tactics and the lies used to garner his sexual affairs. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:44.480 Very few people know that I have rheumatoid arthritis. Very 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.600 few people know that about me. It is not something 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:52.480 that debilitates me and puts me bedridden. But for him 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:58.040 to have used that and told someone that to manipulate 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.639 them to have sex with him, it just sickens me. 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:07.199 It honestly just feels like nothing was off limits in 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:12.680 his pursuit. I mean, it's it's fascinating and horrifying how 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:16.000 much Joel was manipulating everyone in his orbit. 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:19.920 So a new friend from my women's group said something 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:22.720 to me that had just really stuck with me. She said, 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.399 it's like we were living in the Truman Show. Joel 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:28.639 was the director and the rest of us were just 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.960 cast members, just going along with the script without even 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:34.880 knowing it. There was the life that he lived with us, 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:37.760 or the one you know that he pretended to live 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.320 with us, and then there was this version he showed 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:45.600 to people at work. None of it was real, all 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:47.440 of it was a performance. 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:51.280