WEBVTT - Does Tylenol Give Your Baby Autism? 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:08.720 Also media, Hello and welcome to the podcast. It's me 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.440 James today and I'm very lucky to be joined by 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.200 a couple of people who I'm about to introduce to 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.919 discuss the very important topic of does Tyler and old 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.960 give your baby autism? I think we probably already know 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:23.640 the answer, but nonetheless we have half an hour to 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:28.840 talk about it. So you were here, doctor Carve Hoder laughing, 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:30.840 that's uh, that's cave. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:31.240 Yeah. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:33.080 Many of you will know him, but he's a medical 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.440 doctor and host of the House of Pod podcast. And 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.080 I'm also joined by Tyler Black, who's a psychologist in 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.920 British Columbia. Welcome Tyler, chiatrist, psychiatrist. Fucked it up? 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.080 Them fighting words, James them fighting. 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.760 Yeah, no, I know, yeah, this is yes. Like when 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.000 people call me a sociologists, I understand, or even worse, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:54.240 an anthropologist. 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.560 It's a pleasure to be here and no worries. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.720 Tyler is Canadian, so to see him correct somebody on 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.120 something and makes me happy. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:02.560 I'm very sorry. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:03.840 Yeah, but that's why we get him on. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.640 He's very sorry, he's very sorry about that. I love 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.119 Tyler very much. He comes on my show not infrequently 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.200 and one really pleasant thing that's happened. One little bright 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.760 spot in the last I don't know, five years of 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:21.000 terror that have been happening medically is seeing Tyler gradually 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.119 over time become grumpier and I'm more willing to fight. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.000 That's the only bright spot I've had. Thank you Tyler 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:30.320 for that. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.600 Yeah, I imagine that's the side effect of your consumption 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:35.640 of a seat of metaphana. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:36.840 Maybe send me to you. 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.640 Yeah, I got a cut back, bro got cut back. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.399 Yeah, all right. For those not familiar, why are we 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.920 talking about Tyler and All? Might be the name you're 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.440 familiar if you, especially of your American people, like to 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.040 use brand names a little more. I still find that 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.040 very confusing, and I've lived here for a better part 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.600 of two decades. But why are we talking about time 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:54.920 and all? 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.240 Tyler? Do you want to introduce this concept? 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:02.800 Sure so, Yeah, tilan all goes by Parascenamol in UK 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.400 and other places in the world. It's a seed of 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.560 minifin here. So it really is not talking about talent, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.280 although the shorthand that the political people who've been talking 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.960 about it have specifically called out the brand Talentol, which 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.720 is bizarre. But this stems from both a mission that 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.280 RFK Junior when he took over as the HHS sort 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.720 of had, which was to find the cause of autism, 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:33.399 which is his political quest to find some environmental cause. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.480 I mean, he started as an environmental lawyer. I don't 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.760 think he's doing this disingenuously. I think he truly believes 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.360 there was an environmental cause to autism. But of course 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.040 RFK wheeled science probably driven by the brainworm, and so 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.799 he has this way of having a conclusion and finding 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.480 the science to support it. And it was very clear 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.720 that he was going to point towards vaccine vaccine schedule, 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.600 and at some point this is definitely coming. I think 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.359 this might be a roundabout way to do it through 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.120 fevers and talinol. But the talental link is something that 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.760 has been a question mark. So a really quick aside 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.640 will be that when drugs are regulated, the drug companies 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.440 have very little natural interest to study it in pregnant people. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.240 It only brings them risk. There's no reason to do it. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.040 You are required to submit what studies you have on 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.680 animal toxicity in utero and these types of things, but 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.520 not really that much for humans, and so the drug 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.079 companies usually put their hands up and go talk to 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.720 your doctor about using this, and then the rest of 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.760 us in medicine have to take that information that's been 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.720 generated about this medication and try and interpret it on 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.360 pregnant people. And it creates this system where we create 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:45.760 the evidence over the next twenty years in what we 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.320 call pharmacal vigilids or post marketing studies, where we basically, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.480 has there been a problem, did we find any birth effects? 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:53.640 You know? 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.680 And we kind of do it backwards. It's kind of 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.960 makes sense because you couldn't really do an RCAT on 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.200 pregnant women to star with if you didn't know any 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.080 reason for the drugs. So it's one of those sort 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.320 of loopholes. And so this natural conversation has resulted in 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.600 science that points in a number of directions. Does the 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.840 cedamnifite cause autism? Can't be answered by the current science 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.599 because it's all cohort data, it's looking backwards, it's looking 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:22.120 at populations. It's confounded. However, the best study was published 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.120 in twenty twenty four, which makes the timing of this 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.960 announcement really awkward. There was two point five million people. 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.600 It was a believe it's a Danish study Swedish study. Okay, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.760 and in that study there was a small link found, 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.560 but because they had two point five million people, they 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.720 could check that link by looking at sibling pairs within 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.480 that two point five million. So in that group they 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.919 had sixteen thousand sibling pairs both exposed to and not 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.960 exposed to acetaminifin, and lo and behold they found that 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.760 there was no relationship there. So this really is one 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:58.000 of the more definitive correlational studies that says pretty much, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.800 any effect we're seeing is probably confounded. It probably isn't 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.080 due to a cinemenifin. Though there are some animal studies 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.280 that might hint at it, it appears to be minor 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.239 and k I see are about to say something. 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.600 Yeah, First of all, that's exactly right. I think that 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:14.919 there are a lot of things that Maha and RFK 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.800 Junior talk about that are just insane, and you can 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.120 dismiss out of hand. This is a topic that is 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.320 not complete rubbish. It is something that has a little 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.120 bit of nuance and we can talk about as Tyler 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.040 was just mentioning, there is some evidence that there might 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.680 be a small relationship, but the real key is determining 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.640 if it's a causal relationship or just correlative. Are they 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.720 just related for some reason or another, or are they 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.799 caused by each other? And that study that he talked about, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.160 that Swedish study looked at about one hundred and eighty 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.920 thousand infants that had parents that were exposed to a cinemenafin. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.320 What's really elegant about that is that it looked at 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.320 the siblings. That's why it's such an important study. And 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.880 that's what I say, it closes the door on the matter. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.440 I agree with Tyler. I think the preponderance of evidence 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.400 now is that there is no connection between town law 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.239 and autism. But I don't know if this study totally 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.599 closes the door. It is really well done though. So 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.880 they showed that if you look at siblings, if you 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.120 look at a family, there's no connection. You take out 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.120 some of the variables, you take out some of the 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.600 confounders there that can obfuscate or confuse an issue. You 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.640 take those out of the picture, and you see that 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.520 there's no relationship between town lam menaphin. What's interesting in 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.560 that same study that sweet To study, if they then 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.480 put those back in, if they didn't account for the siblings, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.960 then Yeah, showed that there is a little bit of 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:47.280 evidence a small basic relationship between you know, senomenaphin and 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.400 developing autism. But once you start accounting for some of 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.240 these these really tough to account for variables, then you 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.480 start to see that that falls apart, and that implies 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.160 that most of these other studies are not causal but 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.280 correlative relationships. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.640 The sort of twenty twenty five update is and I 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.039 think this might have I think as that we learn 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:10.720 more about it, this might have been something that was 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:16.120 either solicited or developed in tandem with RFK and his goals. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.600 But there was a publication in twenty twenty five by 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.160 I think the Harvard Dean of Medicine, who has been 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:28.320 a plaintiff's witness for attorneys battling talentol in developing autism. 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.120 So there is a bit of a financial conflict of 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.480 interest there, right, Yeah. Baccarelli, Yeah, doctor Baccarelli, who published 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.480 a study called a Navigation Review, and it's basically a 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.280 science y version of let me tell a story, and 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.360 here's the evidence that supports it. Basically, what they did 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.080 is they took the number of studies, they counted the 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.840 number that pointed towards talinol as a factor, and they 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.720 counted against it, and they found about twenty something in total. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.000 The majority of them found a link to talent al 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.120 and autism, and then a minority found no link. But 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.880 of course that's not really how we do science. In 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.240 twenty twenty five, if we had two studies and you 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.440 can actually look at his studies, and some of these 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.239 studies are two hundred people, three hundred people, five hundred people, 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:14.800 and then you have this other study that's two point 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.880 five million people. You know, in the real world that 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.239 larger study would dwarf the significance of the other ones. 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.640 But in the way that this navigation study was set up, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.400 they're all kind of equal. In fact, he treats the 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:32.600 non confounded sample that Cave was mentioning as its own study, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.560 and then he treats the controlled sample with siblings as 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.080 its own studies. So the same study from Sweden was 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.120 cited twice, one four and one against. You can see 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.000 how you could shape a narrative, which is what a 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.240 narrative review is. It's when you shape a narrative. It's 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.240 not a very sciencey way to do things. We like 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.959 to do systematic reviews, and this did provide a bit 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.280 of cover because now everyone in AHHS can point to words. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.880 This study by the Harvard Deed of Medicine, published in 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:08.600 BMC Environmental Study is peer reviewed showing that a navigational 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.120 study shows that there could be a link. But it 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.200 really if you read the study, any scientists reading it like, yeah, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.040 there could be a link, but the largest study in 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:17.920 that group suggests there is no link. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.400 Right, yeah, in terms of someone's playing games with evidence 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.080 when they've already decided what they completly would it be. Yeah, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.640 let's talk about this fascination with autism that exists in 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.000 the MAHA. Right, make America healthy again. For those who 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.280 are not familiar what's happening here, people are probably diagnosed 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.640 with autism at a higher rate now than they were 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.160 when these people were young. Right, that is not however, well, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.360 I will let you guys explain that. Explain how that 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.319 doesn't mean that we're giving children autism If that is 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:49.240 my understanding is. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.360 Correct, sure, I mean I'll jump in first. So there's 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:55.360 a number of ways to test whether or not the 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.880 rate is truly increasing. So the first thing to say is, 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.840 over the world, I've seen a gradual increase in the 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.920 global population that has autism from about zero point eight 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.960 percent of the population to about two percent of the population. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:12.960 That's what's happened over the past twenty five years of 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.360 studies across the world. Now, that's not exactly the exponential 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.880 rise that you often hear about in the United States. 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.280 The United States has a lot of unique features though. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.280 You have a ton of people working in this area, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.360 you have a ton of researchers, lots of people have 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.559 access to healthcare. There's many reasons why global numbers might 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.320 not look like American numbers, but the general idea behind 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.679 this increase rate of autism. Most of that increase is 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.960 due to our change in diagnostics in the way that 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.240 we label things. So when RFK was a kid, there 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.600 were kids that were excluded from school because they were 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.320 literally called retarded. They were not allowed to come to school. 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.559 They were known as spass and goofs, and they were 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.240 the ones that were made fun of and they struggled 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.199 throughout life. Now that were they called autistic, No, did 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.680 they have the same symptoms that the kids today that 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.320 are being diagnosed with autism have And the way that 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.800 we can control for that or there's some really elegant studies. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.439 One is we take diagnostic criteria from children and then 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.839 we ask adults currently living today to go through a 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.800 structured interview looking for those things. And yes, what we 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.480 find the same rate in adults that we see in kids. 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:22.000 This idea that it's an exponential rate. Now, I think 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.360 the rate is also increasing, but I think it's increasing gradually, 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.800 and this is because the extreme of ages are having 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.360 kids more often, especially at the older end. And we 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.480 do know that older age is related to autism, especially 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.719 older age of the father. And we also know that 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.800 premature babies and babies with significant developmental disabilities are surviving 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.680 their post natal period as soon as they're born. Instead 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.400 of instantly dying or dying during childbirth or not being 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.520 able to be resuscitated, they're kept alive and survive and 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.240 this is good. But this does mean that there's more 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.200 neurodiversity in the world because of course these children have 0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:59.960 encountered significant harm. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.840 And I agree with that. I do think that the 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.560 diagnostic criteria has expanded and that's part of why we 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.040 see more. But yeah, I think the two things we 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:14.000 know that are related are some genetic predisposition. If there's 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.160 people in the family that have it, and the older 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.880 age of patients, and as we get older. I'm an 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.480 older father myself. You know, you see more with older patients, 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.680 and that's more common now than it's ever been before. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.640 So these are all a part of it. And once 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.880 you take a look, for example, going back to that 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.839 Swedish study in twenty twenty four that was so good, 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.000 that sibling study, looks at the genetics of it, And 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.320 once you count for the genetics of it, you start 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.520 to be able to say, Okay, maybe that's other stuff 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.800 like tile mall isn't important? Yeah? 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.240 Yeah, is there a gender element to this as well? Yeah, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.800 I may have misfremenbed here. My understanding is that women 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.080 FEN people tended to be diagnosed at a lower rate 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:55.559 until relatively recently. 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.839 Yeah, So not only is there a gender component, but 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.200 I do think that the bio logical sex of the 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.640 child has an impact on the genetic expression, because it 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.640 seems like the transmission to males is higher than the 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.000 transmission to females. So there might be something buffering about 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.240 that extra X chromosome. You know, we have this shrimpy 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.760 little Y chromosome that makes us all degenerates. You only 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:21.120 have one Y chromosome, Sorry, are you a super male? 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.480 I have two wys caves y Why you know, Harry, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.920 My ears are so there are a number of disorders 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.840 that the extra X chromosome is protective for, and I 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.000 do wonder if that's the case for autism. 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.400 But what's also true is we have stereotypes about what 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.280 girls should be and what boys should be, and that 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.000 leads to boys being diagnosed with autism more frequently than girls. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.520 So the girl that's quiet and awkward and anxious is 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:50.360 labeled as an anxious kid a lot more quickly than 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.600 when you see that in a boy that the parents 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.120 think autism or the clinician thinks autism. So there could 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.400 be some social reasons for that discrepancy as well. And 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.440 then the last thing I really wanted to say is 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.560 that the really tragic thing about all of this is 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.640 profound autism, which autism is the spectrum. Profound autism is 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.959 extremely disabling for people around the person. Generally, autistic people 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.240 enjoy their lives, especially if the world is set up 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.120 in a way so that they can live safely and 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.960 without impediment. Autistic people are perfectly content to be autistic, 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:27.479 and this whole idea of autism being this travesty, this epidemic, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.160 this blight on society, is really doing a disservice to 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.240 the wide variety of people that we're now calling autistic, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.720 because when our criteria expanded, we created a whole space 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.320 of autistic people who are very what we would call 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.840 non profound autism. These are people that have difficulties in 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.760 social communication or do the same thing over and over 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.920 despite it being at an abnormal level, but it's what 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.440 they need to soothe themselves, you know, that will be 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:55.160 called autism. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:55.400 Now. 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.920 Now, would a parent want a child who's in a 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.160 home constant rocking back and forth and just soothing themselves 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.520 by licking their fingers or whatever, you know, some very 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.080 severe autistic behavior. No, that probably wouldn't be the parents ideal. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.160 But I've worked with so much autism in my life. 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.760 I'm a child anadists and psychiatrist. They've seen so many 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.520 artistic kids. They can live happy, happy, happy lives autistic, 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.240 So I'm not a fan of the blight sort of 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:23.280 messaging of it either. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.200 Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned that, because that's one 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.160 of the worst things about in a sense, one of 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.160 the most damaging things about is where people who are 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:34.880 living happy, healthy and fulfilled lives are being like slandered 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.880 or pathologized to rided by the government of this country. 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.360 And that's fucked yeah, and I'm sure will have an 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.040 impact on those people because it would have an impact 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.040 on anyone to see this condition that, as you said, right, like, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.160 maybe difficult for people who are not familiar with it 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:51.920 to navigate, but it doesn't mean that you can't have 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:57.160 a fulfilling and happy and very pleasant life. Suddenly suggested 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.160 it some kind of massively disabling and terror travesty and 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.600 that the person who gave birth to you is to 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.160 blame for this, right. 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.960 Right, That's what really bothers me, is like we're always 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:12.080 trying to find ways to blame mothers. This is this 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.880 is this is a mantle and I apologize for that. Listener, 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.760 please don't at me for that. But part of what 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:23.240 this is is like control over women. And you know, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.440 while that Swedish study of mention may not completely close 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.640 the issue, I think it's pretty clear that the evidence 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.960 pretty strong against there being a connection between taal Mual 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:37.440 and to make a whole sale governmental recommendation that as 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.640 a country, for us to move this way, to make 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.920 such strong claims, to have a president come out and 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.600 just say grit your teeth and bear it. To women 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.440 in regards to the one medicine that we've told them 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.920 they can use during a pregnancy is insane to me. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.800 So there's the autism issue and the insult essentially to 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.120 that community, but also to women in general. It's insane 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.480 to me that this is happening right now. Again, there 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.440 is a bit of nuance to this issue. As I mentioned, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.080 it's not like totally insane to ask about and question it, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:14.520 but to make a wholesale directional change in how we 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:19.320 recommend managing patients with our pregnant is is nuts. It's 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:19.959 just nuts. 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.880 Yeah, And to piggyback on that, you know, like it's 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.600 really normal. It was normal advice in twenty twenty four 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.520 for us to say, yeah, you can use talan all, 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.040 but try to use it sparingly. We're not really sure 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.240 use it when you need it though, because we do 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.280 know that pain and fever and these types of things 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.399 are bad for the baby, right, you know, So this 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.679 kind of way in which it's now been massaged, So 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.560 I saw a letter from doctor Marty Mackeriy, who's another 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.600 grifter who's now in the American political system. There has 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.920 written a letter basically saying at the bottom, use it judiciously, 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.159 and it is the only one that's proved so. But 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.160 that's exactly where we were before. There was no need 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.880 for a past conference every doctor saying, use talanol sparingly, 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:02.880 but you can use it. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.600 James, Can I tell you what's driving me crazy about this? Yeah? 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:06.960 Please? 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.360 This administration has done something. Trump in general has done 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:15.200 something that has blown my mind, which is somehow, time 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.640 and time again, I find myself defending people and things 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:24.200 that I would never want to defend. Like, first of 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.160 on watching Jimmy Kimmel, I don't know how that happened. Yes, 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:32.200 I blame Trump for that. Second, like tylanol is a 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:36.960 dangerous medication. I'm a liver doc. Yes, ideal, Like tylanol 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:41.280 overdose is causing acute liver injury and acute liver failure 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.680 is a massive, real issue across the world, and it is. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.159 It's it's a real thing. So there are reasons that 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.479 we should be watchful of tailanol, but this is not 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:52.880 one of them. Right. 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.560 Yeah, personally, I'm a champion of all tailanol should be 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.240 like the UK, it should be in individually wrapped pieces 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.639 because there is evidence that that reduces the rate of 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.959 intentional overdose and even icy overdoses that cause liver failure. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.600 So yeah, take away freedoms. 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.160 Yeah right, this is the medical freedom crowd. It's amazing. 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.640 Yeah, we should take an advertising break and then come back. 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.520 So we'll do that. Oh god, that would be fantastic 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.199 if I could take an advertise. I could use an 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:18.920 ad right now. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:24.440 So badyup. It's going to be for fucking lemon pepper water, 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.960 which is the only pain treatment you should be taking. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:29.919 Bark to put between your teeth. 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.480 Sure, yea, go get some leaves and fucking eat them. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:47.480 What can get wrong? All right, we're back. Thank you 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.960 for that message from Leaf Pain Relief. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:51.800 Get the spot, it's good. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.520 Don't eat leaves. I saw someone posing with a they 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.960 were taking their graduation pitch. Is very nice setting. I'm 0:19:57.960 --> 0:19:59.960 not going to say the flour, I guess just in case. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.879 You know, you can call it quite remarkable hallucinations and 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:04.680 it is not a good idea to be like. 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:05.480 Half in it. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.040 Yeah, it's a nice looking flower. You didn't know you 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:08.320 might have. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:09.920 Well, now I want to know what the hell you're 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.879 talking about. You're gonna tell me later. I'm assuming you 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:13.879 lived in California your whole life. How do you not 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:14.560 know this? Yeah? 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:15.600 It text you afterwards? 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.480 Them dandelions? Is it dandelions? 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.040 I've been told not to roses. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.320 It reminds me though there was a TikTok video of 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.639 there's been a few of women proudly being pregnant and 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.800 ingesting talanol. And to be clear, that's an insane response 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.800 to this problem, Like, please don't take talanol as a point, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.280 as k was saying before the break, right, Helenol does 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.639 deplete the glutathion in your body, and it is toxic 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.480 to your liver. If you're a deliver, doesn't have the 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.440 glue to thion necessary, it directly injures the liver. And 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.520