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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and I'm welcome to Steffan Never

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Speaker 1: Told You production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to another edition

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Speaker 1: of Spoiled Saturdays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we've only.

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Speaker 1: Done one of these. It's been a minute since we've

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Speaker 1: done two. Okay, we've definitely done something that was like

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Speaker 1: in the realm of Spoiled Saturdays. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we'd called it that yet. Yeah, but yeah, I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited. But yes, as the titles suggest, spoilers, massive spoilers,

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Speaker 1: everything spoiled. So if you don't want to be spoiled

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Speaker 1: on the new Spider Verse movie, go away, come back,

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Speaker 1: go live alone, people, come on, yeah, come on. As

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Speaker 1: I was doing this, I realized we never did the

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Speaker 1: first one. We kind of talked about it in the

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Speaker 1: No we never did it. We talked about it briefly

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Speaker 1: in our superhero themed holiday feminist movies around the world

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Speaker 1: where we did like Batman and Iron Man three Expider first.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know, because we need to come back

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Speaker 2: to it then we should.

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Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts on that. As I was

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Speaker 1: doing this, I had such a glorious moment of it's

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Speaker 1: so nice when you just know something so well that

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Speaker 1: I'm just writing from the heart right, I don't want to.

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Speaker 2: When we were talking about doing it, I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be an easy one for you.

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Speaker 1: Just go for it. The hard part was condensing it,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, but I tried my best.

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Speaker 2: Yes, which listeners, he does have a little little warning

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Speaker 2: of side note, keep it brief us joly Annie.

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Speaker 1: For myself, I wrote it in there, don't do it

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Speaker 1: and speaking of because I wanted to go into all

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Speaker 1: these tangents about like the animation and the technology involved.

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Speaker 1: That's not really this podcast, but I did do that

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Speaker 1: on Movie Crush when I did an episode on the

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Speaker 1: first one where I really went in. So if you

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Speaker 1: want to listen to that, I would recommend it. It's

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Speaker 1: very nerdy. I'm talking about like the Kirby Dots and

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Speaker 1: the Kirby Crackle and all this stuff. It's great, but

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Speaker 1: to say, like new technologies have been invented to make

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Speaker 1: these movies. They have an R and D department to

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Speaker 1: make these movies, so really cool stuff. This one has

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Speaker 1: been very successful, It has very been very critically acclaimed.

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Speaker 1: It made more money and it's opening weeks than the

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Speaker 1: first one did all together. So it's doing well. And yes,

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Speaker 1: as Samantha and I were discussing right before, there are

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Speaker 1: two different versions of this movie in theaters. Essentially what

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Speaker 1: happened was there was kind of a complaint about some

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Speaker 1: of the audios, so they fixed some of the audio,

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Speaker 1: and then there's about twenty very small differences in between

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Speaker 1: the two of them. So that's just if you want

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Speaker 1: to look it up. There's some guidelines of the differences,

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Speaker 1: so you can be like, oh, here we go, that's

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Speaker 1: the version I watch. Yes, so I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: a rundown of this plot because it's kind of it's

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Speaker 1: a lot. I feel like I'll just it'll be easier

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Speaker 1: if I just go to just go, just go, okay.

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Speaker 1: So Spider Man Across the Spider Verse is the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three sequel of the critically acclaimed twenty eighteen Spider

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Speaker 1: Man Into the Spider Verse, both written and produced by

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Speaker 1: Phil Lord and Christopher Miller. Both of these films are

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Speaker 1: unique in their animation styles. They have two D, they

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Speaker 1: have three D, they have stop motion, different frame rates,

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Speaker 1: bright colors, and just a lot of different stylistic animations

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Speaker 1: like noir, anime, punk, and colors that make them very

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Speaker 1: very beautiful. It is like watching a living comic book.

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Speaker 1: So in the first movie, which yes, I will keep

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Speaker 1: this brief, Ayles Morales discovers a multiverse of alternate universes

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Speaker 1: and their respective Spider People and not even people. Always

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Speaker 1: with their help, he learns to accept his role as

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Speaker 1: Spider Man after the death of Peter Parker in his universe,

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Speaker 1: along the way learning his uncle Aaron is the Prowler

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Speaker 1: who is a villain, and he gets killed by King Pinn,

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Speaker 1: while also strengthening his relationship with his father, who is

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Speaker 1: a police officer. All of the other Spider People are

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Speaker 1: returned to their own universes. The second one picks up

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Speaker 1: pretty much right where that one ended, though it starts

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Speaker 1: with Spider Woman slash Gwen Stacy's POV and going a

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Speaker 1: bit more in depth into her backstory of how she

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Speaker 1: Spider Woman, was blamed for the death of her best

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Speaker 1: friend and only friend, Peter Parker, something that has made

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Speaker 1: her really closed off and has driven a wedge in

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Speaker 1: her relationship with her police chief father, who is determined

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Speaker 1: to catch Spider Woman and bring her to Jess This

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Speaker 1: not knowing it's Quinn and kind of not understanding why

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Speaker 1: Gwinn doesn't want him to do it. After the events

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Speaker 1: of the first film, she missus Miles, who is the

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Speaker 1: first friend she'd made after the death of Peter. While

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Speaker 1: investigating a disturbance, she sees a sort of Italian Renaissance

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Speaker 1: version of the Vulture. And by the way, the song

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Speaker 1: on the soundtrack is called Vulture gets Culture because it

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Speaker 1: happens at a museum and I love it anyway. And

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Speaker 1: he's glitching, indicating that he is from another universe. They fight,

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Speaker 1: and soon Miguel O'Hara slash Spider Man twenty ninety nine

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Speaker 1: shows up from his universe to aid her, and he

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Speaker 1: was introduced as an Easter egg in the end credits

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Speaker 1: of the first one. Actually, he also shows up with

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Speaker 1: another Spider woman, Jess Drew, and together they are able

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Speaker 1: to subdue Vulture. Gwynn reveals her true identity to her

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Speaker 1: father and he tries to arrest her, hurt when accepts

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Speaker 1: Miguel's very reluctant offer to join the Spider Society and

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Speaker 1: escapes into a portal with him and Jess. So basically

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Speaker 1: he's implying he's having to grow and clean up their

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Speaker 1: mess that they created by trying to fix this collider

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Speaker 1: multiverse problem, and he's not happy about it and he

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Speaker 1: doesn't want her in the society, but Jess is like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I think we should have her in. Meanwhile, Miles is

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Speaker 1: struggling to balance his responsibilities as Spider Man with those

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Speaker 1: of his family and academic life as it comes time

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Speaker 1: for college applications, especially when his family doesn't want him

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Speaker 1: to leave Brooklyn. He also imagines telling them about his

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Speaker 1: identity as Spider Man that he holds himself back, even

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Speaker 1: as his parents suspect he is lying to them, and

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Speaker 1: he misses Gwinn too. He also does not have much

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Speaker 1: in the way of friends, so he keeps mentioning these

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Speaker 1: friends like Quinn, and his parents are like, why haven't

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Speaker 1: we never met Quinn and he's like, oh well. He

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Speaker 1: encounters what he calls a bad guy of the week

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Speaker 1: called the Spots. I'm just going to call him Spot

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Speaker 1: throughout this, but it's the Spot who after the accident

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Speaker 1: with all the alternate universes at the company he worked for,

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Speaker 1: alchem X, from the first one, he has these interdimensional

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Speaker 1: spots and portals on his body. He blames Miles for

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Speaker 1: what happened to him and reveals that he transported the

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Speaker 1: spider that bit Miles from another dimension Earth forty two.

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Speaker 1: Spot learns how to travel through universes using his spots

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Speaker 1: and decides to increase his power to become more than

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Speaker 1: a bad guy of the week. Gwinn and Miles reunite,

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Speaker 1: and he follows her and learns she's been tracking Spot

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Speaker 1: through dimensions. Es tells Gwen to leave Miles behind, but

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Speaker 1: Miles jumps in the portal after Gwyn, taking them to

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Speaker 1: Mumbatan on Earth fifty one oh one, Mumbatan being Mumbai

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan mixed together. They join forces with that universe

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Speaker 1: of Spider Man, Paveteer Prabakar and Hobie Brown Spider Punk

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Speaker 1: as you might know him, to take on Spot, who

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Speaker 1: is draining that universe's collider to increase his power. Spot escapes,

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Speaker 1: but he leaves Miles with this vision of the death

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Speaker 1: of his father, Jeff, who had just been promoted to

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Speaker 1: police captain. While Pavetier is saving his girlfriend, he sees

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Speaker 1: her father, the police captain, in danger, but is unable

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Speaker 1: to get to him in time without dropping his girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: so Miles saves him instead, but Mumbaton starts to collapse

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Speaker 1: because Miles has disrupted a quote canon event. While some

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Speaker 1: Spider People come to do damage control, Gwynn, Hoby and

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Speaker 1: Miles go to the Society's headquarters on Miguel's world, Earth

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Speaker 1: nine two eight, and it's this huge complex with hundreds

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Speaker 1: of Spider people. Okay, so brief aside. I know, I

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Speaker 1: probably don't have to explain this because I've talked about

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Speaker 1: it a million times on here, but cannon is something

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Speaker 1: that is produced when accepted authentic author and in something

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Speaker 1: like Marvel, it's even more than that. It is the

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Speaker 1: current accepted properties storylines, works that are accepted as the

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Speaker 1: quote real ongoing story as decided by whoever owns the property.

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Speaker 1: In this case, it would be Marvel slash Disney, i e.

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Speaker 1: Anything not canon would be something like Legends, which is

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Speaker 1: what it's called in Star Wars and no longer has

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Speaker 1: any impact on the current canon, though a lot of

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Speaker 1: crossover can be had there, which is very confusing, very

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Speaker 1: very confusing. There is also head canon, which is like

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Speaker 1: your own personal idea of what happened, and you keep

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Speaker 1: it to yourself, but that's just in your head. That's

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Speaker 1: how it went and then there's fanin, which is like

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Speaker 1: when a bunch of head canons come together and make fanin.

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Speaker 1: And that can be confusing because you think you hear

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Speaker 1: it all the time because fans believe it. You think

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Speaker 1: that it's canon, but it's fanin.

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Speaker 2: That's a whole TikTok trend.

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Speaker 1: Now I know what to make mistakes.

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Speaker 2: It's essentially I think when people make mistakes or do

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Speaker 2: something that's so common, but it's like they're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to learn for themselves, it's just cannon. It took me

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Speaker 2: a long time to be like what, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I kept seeing headlines about it. I assumed it was

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Speaker 1: something like very silly, like this is my canon event

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Speaker 1: and you stubbed a toe or something, but I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's essentially like every person, every fandom or every group

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Speaker 2: of like growing into this age or doing this. I

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Speaker 2: guess it could be like when I say my niece

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Speaker 2: is gonna come to Atlanta, she'll learn for herself and

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Speaker 2: then become more liberated. I guess in that way liberal

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's like that's canon.

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Speaker 1: That way interesting? All right, well, listeners, let me know,

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Speaker 1: because I yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Was, I think that's what I assumed.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what it seems. You can have a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun with it. I'll say that. So in this

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Speaker 1: case of this movie, a cannon event would be something

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Speaker 1: that has to happen, Yes, because it is cannon. So

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Speaker 1: Miles is reunited with his mentor, Peter B. Parker and

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Speaker 1: introduced to his daughter may Day or May, who Peter

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Speaker 1: had in part because he wanted to raise a child

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Speaker 1: like Miles. Miguel informs Miles that every Spider Man has

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Speaker 1: a cannon event that cannot be changed without wrecking reality,

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Speaker 1: usually the death of a loved one. After a tragedy

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Speaker 1: in his own universe, Miguel attempted to replace another version

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Speaker 1: of himself who is happy, but it led to that

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Speaker 1: universe to collapse, and he did care about that version

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Speaker 1: of his family, but they all kind of got wiped out.

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Speaker 1: Miles realizes that his cannon event is coming in two days,

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Speaker 1: the murder of his father by Spot. He tries to

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Speaker 1: escape to change it, but Miguel imprisons him. Later, Hoby

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Speaker 1: helps break him out before jumping away in a portal,

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Speaker 1: quitting the society. He's a very like fight the System,

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Speaker 1: fight the man. I'm done and they have these handy

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Speaker 1: dandy wristband portal jumping things, which is the gizmo from

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Speaker 1: the end credits of the first one. Miguel orders all

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Speaker 1: Spider People to stop Miles, resulting in a hectic chase

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Speaker 1: or He tells Miles that he is a mistake, that

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Speaker 1: without him his realities Peter Parker would still be alive,

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Speaker 1: and that Spider was never supposed to bite him and

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Speaker 1: the reality the Spider came from doesn't have a Spider Man.

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Speaker 1: So Miles manages to get back to the quote Get

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Speaker 1: Home Machine with the help of Spider Bite also known

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Speaker 1: as Margo, and this is a machine that uses DNA

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Speaker 1: to send people to their home dimension. He returns to

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Speaker 1: his home dimension after realizing that Gwen and Peter b

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Speaker 1: knew about all of this, and he feels very betrayed

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Speaker 1: by that. He reveals that he is Spider Man to

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Speaker 1: his mom, but she doesn't know who he's talking about,

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Speaker 1: and then Uncle Aaron arrives and Miles realizes he is

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Speaker 1: in the wrong reality. The reality of the Spider that

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Speaker 1: bit him was from this reality and it is the

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Speaker 1: one that has no Spider Man, so you can like

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Speaker 1: see chaos outside. Aaron Surprise attacks Miles, and when Miles

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Speaker 1: wakes up, he's tied to a punching bag, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, is a running joke about Spider Man being

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Speaker 1: a punching bag, and he learns in this universe, Aaron

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Speaker 1: isn't the Prowler Miles is. Meanwhile, Miguel kicks Gwyn out

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Speaker 1: of the Spider Society and she returns to her universe

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Speaker 1: to learn that her father quit his job. They reconcile

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Speaker 1: and he gives her the Portal Watch thing. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there's official name, but you know that Hobie left for her.

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Speaker 1: She uses it to go to Miles's universe, intending to

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Speaker 1: help him, only to learn he's not there. A team

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Speaker 1: from the Society are there too, Miguel and Jess and

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Speaker 1: Scarlet Spider, who's like the really angsty emo. Spider Man

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Speaker 1: puts together a team to help Miles, including Peter B Spider, Noir,

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Speaker 1: Spider Ham, Pabetier, Hobie, Margo, and may Day. And that's

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Speaker 1: how it ends. Cliffhanger, So in this alternate universe, his

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Speaker 1: dad Miles, his dad is dead and Aaron has survived.

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Speaker 1: But that brings me to one of the things that,

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Speaker 1: of course kept popping up in my feed. The creators

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Speaker 1: have said this is their version of the Empire strikes Back.

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Speaker 1: It has the vision of losing a loved one, but

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Speaker 1: it's inverted because it's so it's sort of like the

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Speaker 1: reveal at the end is that, oh, I'm the villain

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Speaker 1: and oh my dad is dead. Instead of Impire strikes Back,

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Speaker 1: the reveal is, oh, my dad's the villain and he's alive.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. But it has a bunch of like if again,

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Speaker 1: if I was left to my drothers, as the cool

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Speaker 1: people say, I would just go in to that and

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Speaker 1: talk about hilarities. And the difference is but one person

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Speaker 1: pointed out, is actually more like Matrix Reloaded, because you

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Speaker 1: get to the end of Matrix Reloaded and you realize, like,

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Speaker 1: this whole time, you thought you were fighting to do

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Speaker 1: the right thing and do good, and there's this whole

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Speaker 1: system in place that is keeping you from changing anything.

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Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting. There's also a big ah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's theory is the right word,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people have pointed out that in

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Speaker 1: the first one, when Miles and Spider Man first interact,

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Speaker 1: Spider Man has like the red blue like Spider tingle

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Speaker 1: things happening, and Miles has purple and green and they

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Speaker 1: kind of have like this headache moment. And some people

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Speaker 1: have said he was supposed to be that world's Prowler

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Speaker 1: because of the Spider from the other universe. Things went

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Speaker 1: to differently.

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Speaker 2: Like when Uncle and dies he becomes the new Prowler.

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Speaker 2: Is that what it's supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: It's supposed to be. Yeah, like he was because he

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Speaker 1: loved to sell Claren. Yeah, I was following in his footsteps,

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Speaker 1: really wanted to do it. They haven't. I don't think

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Speaker 1: the creators have said if they meant to do it

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Speaker 1: or not, but it feels very They don't usually put

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Speaker 1: anything in these movies without it meaning something, so which

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Speaker 1: leads us too the discussion. One of the big things

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Speaker 1: people have talked about is whether or not there's a

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Speaker 1: trans character in this movie. And so the reason people

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Speaker 1: are talking about that is because quote, the film subtly

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Speaker 1: integrates additional affirmation for the transgender community, and Spider Gwynn,

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Speaker 1: voiced by Hailey Steinfeld, prominently displaying pink and blue hues

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Speaker 1: symbolic of the transgender flag, while her father's police uniform

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Speaker 1: briefly reveals a badge adorned with the trans flag. And

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Speaker 1: so in Gwyn's world, it's very it's watercolor based. The

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Speaker 1: colors are representative of her emotions and how she feels

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Speaker 1: at that moment, and most often they are the colors

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Speaker 1: of the trans flag, and the artists clearly know what

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Speaker 1: those colors are if they have a trans flag featured

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Speaker 1: in two different instances in her world. So the art

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Speaker 1: styles in these movies are very specific to each character

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Speaker 1: and they are meant to communicate something about that character.

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Speaker 1: Here's a quote from one of the creators about the

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Speaker 1: futuristic slash blade runner style that they use for Miguel's world.

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Speaker 1: And you can see the lines on Miguel like the

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Speaker 1: pencil is unfinished. It's kind of a cruel joke on Miguel,

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Speaker 1: who's essentially asserting that the future is written, but the

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Speaker 1: image is constantly undermining his argument and saying, in fact,

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Speaker 1: the future is not completely fleshed out. And here's a

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Speaker 1: quote from Vox. Devotees have pointed out that the Spider

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Speaker 1: Woman is literally Eg has a trans flag in her room,

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Speaker 1: and symbolically EG the experiences the allegory of coming out

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Speaker 1: depicted as a trans ally, if not trans herself. Gwenn's

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Speaker 1: possible transness and even her allyship is a big deal.

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Speaker 2: So from fan the green Casey quote, trans and even

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Speaker 2: SYS fans have every right to say Gwen Stacy is trans,

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Speaker 2: even if the movies never outright confirm it. We can't

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Speaker 2: deny that it's been hinted at. The fact is, if

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Speaker 2: she can make somebody feel represented, who are you to

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Speaker 2: tell them they're wrong. Fans also noticed that Gwenn's father,

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Speaker 2: policeman George Stacy, has a transgender flag that he wears

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Speaker 2: on his uniform. That's notable for a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 2: One of those is that in the real world, trans

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Speaker 2: activists have said that trans people, especially black transgender people,

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Speaker 2: often face discrimination from law enforcement. Said discrimination is a

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Speaker 2: huge reason why trans people don't feel comfortable asking police

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Speaker 2: for help.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and you see him wearing the flag after he

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Speaker 1: accepts her identity a spider woman and believes her because

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Speaker 1: she's continually telling him this and he doesn't leave her,

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Speaker 1: indicating that he is an ally and some speculate that

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Speaker 1: he would only be an ally in the context of

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Speaker 1: Gwenn's potential of being trans if he had a trans

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Speaker 1: family member, then it made me happy because the Mark

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Speaker 1: Hamill gift is going around again of when he says,

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Speaker 1: if you believe Luke Skywalker is gay, he's gay. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but that brings us to the question why not do

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Speaker 1: it outright? Countries censor LGBTQ plus content and studios know it,

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Speaker 1: and they are studios are primarily profit driven. Again, they

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Speaker 1: are not allies. That's what we talked about in our

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Speaker 1: recent episode about what's happening and a bunch of a

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Speaker 1: bunch of these companies in the US, even with this

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Speaker 1: small mention, like I didn't even notice it the first

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Speaker 1: time this movie has been banned in two countries. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what we talked about. With what's going on with

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Speaker 1: Target and bud Light facing backlash. It's not an excuse

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Speaker 1: at all, but that is what they're thinking. And I

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Speaker 1: will note the creators have kind of flat out said

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Speaker 1: that the studio metals they're kind of big sneaky about it,

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Speaker 1: but basically they were fired from Solo. Oh. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you know that, but anyway, they were, and

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Speaker 1: they have said about that. I always remember the original

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Speaker 1: trilogy were independent movies. Yeah, something else before we move

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Speaker 1: on from Gwen Stacy Gwinn Stacy. It's kind of infamous

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Speaker 1: for an example of fridging. It's not just that, but

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Speaker 1: in Spider Man to the Amazing Spider Man two there's

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Speaker 1: that kind of like slow mow fall that she has.

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Speaker 1: But that's based on the night Gwen Stacy died, which

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Speaker 1: is this very well known comic and when it came out,

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Speaker 1: people were shocked and Marvel received death threats because she

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Speaker 1: was a popular character. People loved her, and she died

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Speaker 1: because it was implied, it was very dark. It was

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Speaker 1: a like stark turn for their normal storytelling because the

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Speaker 1: implication was maybe he had killed her from the whiplash

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Speaker 1: of catching her and that's how she died. But it

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Speaker 1: started this whole thing called Gwen Stacy syndrome because because

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Speaker 1: that was it was such a popular plotline. Even though

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Speaker 1: people were pissed about it and they were heard about

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Speaker 1: it, it became like this iconic scene and in every Spider

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Speaker 1: Man movie, I'm pretty sure literally every Spider Man movie

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Speaker 1: there's some kind of reference of like somebody following and

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Speaker 1: you catch them with the web. It became known as

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Speaker 1: Gwen Stacy syndrome. And it was kind of the start

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Speaker 1: of like, it's just not a safe to date be

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Speaker 1: a woman dating Spider Man. It doesn't matter if you're

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Speaker 1: just like a one off or like you've been dating

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Speaker 1: for a while, Like you are not safe. So it's

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Speaker 1: this whole thing. I would love to come back and

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Speaker 1: talk about that more. And in this movie, Gwen Stacy

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Speaker 1: says in every other universe, Gwen Stacy falls for Spider Man,

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Speaker 1: which kind of implies like love, but it also implies, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a literal fall. Yes, But let us move on for

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Speaker 1: now to canon events and problems with fandom and cannon.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about toxic fandom at length, but that's kind

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Speaker 1: of what's going on here. From the Verge. Here's a quote.

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Speaker 1: It's an insidious, pernicious and this is especially important racist

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Speaker 1: idea that has thrived in segments of the Spider Man

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Speaker 1: fandom ever since Miles first appeared in Marvel's comics, and

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Speaker 1: the way across the Spider Verse subverts it to deepen

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Speaker 1: Miles's lore is one of the movie's most spectacular feats.

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Speaker 1: So they were saying, the real villain is not Miguel

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Speaker 1: or the Spot, it is this toxic fandom. When Miles,

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Speaker 1: who is a teen of black and Puerto Rican descent,

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Speaker 1: was introduced in twenty eleven, there was a huge backlash

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Speaker 1: as sort of like not my Spider Man thing that

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Speaker 1: was definitely soaked in racism going on, and this overall

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Speaker 1: idea that he wasn't as good as Peter Parker, that

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Speaker 1: he was not really Spider Man, which is at the

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Speaker 1: heart of the whole film of Miles being told he's

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Speaker 1: a mistake. If you weren't here, your universe of Spider

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Speaker 1: Man would still be here. You're not supposed to be here,

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Speaker 1: that he's the quote original anomaly that started this whole thing,

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Speaker 1: and Miles saying I'm going to do things my own way.

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Speaker 1: We don't have time to get into this. But also

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Speaker 1: when Miles was first introduced, he was not given a

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Speaker 1: lot of depth. That is not to excuse any racist

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Speaker 1: attacks at all, but it did improve. Like, but that

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Speaker 1: says something too of people say like, well, you gave

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Speaker 1: Peter Parker so much attention in time and depth, and

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Speaker 1: then you introduced this character and really didn't do it.

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00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: But these movies have and games the games too have

401
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Speaker 1: really given like fleshed out his character a lot more,

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Speaker 1: there's the idea I saw a quote from one of

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Speaker 1: the creators involved of like encountering this anger from fans,

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Speaker 1: So that has to be the same story over and over,

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Speaker 1: and if you deviate from that in any way, just

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00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: anger about it. And so on the movie, it's Miles

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00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: tampering with Cannon that makes Miguel angry, not the dimension

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Speaker 1: jumping villain that is like what really upsets him. And

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Speaker 1: then Canon getting to dictate who gets to be Spider

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Speaker 1: Man when the message at the heart of these movies

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Speaker 1: is that anyone can be Spider Man. I also think

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Speaker 1: there's a moment of that's like examining bad Allyship at

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Speaker 1: the end with Gwenn and Peter b choosing to protect

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Speaker 1: the status quo over him, Like, didn't they didn't tell

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Speaker 1: him any thing about it. They were willing to like

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Speaker 1: just go ahead with this, and then realizing that they

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Speaker 1: were wrong, And then you do have people loved it.

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Speaker 1: But Hope's whole fight the power vibe, this is wrong,

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't be doing it. It is also a coming

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00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: of age story for sure, realizing that things weren't what

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Speaker 1: you thought that they were, and identity growing up as

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Speaker 1: a superhero for sure. According it to Vox's alex Abod Santos,

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Speaker 1: who I have we've been quoting throughout across the Spider

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Speaker 1: Verse centralizes queer and trans imagery, symbolism, and allegories while

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Speaker 1: creating a Spider Man whose narrative identity operates with a

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Speaker 1: lot of components of a coming out story. So that's

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Speaker 1: actually from movie Web about the Vox article that we

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Speaker 1: have been But yeah, like the whole idea of the

429
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: fear of telling your guardians, of being told you don't belong.

430
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: His mother's message of ever let anyone tell you you

431
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: don't belong fits into all of this.

432
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the quote goes on Rio's worries about her

433
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: son mirror so many fears that parents of LGBTQ children have,

434
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: mainly that family acceptance is the easy part, and it's

435
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: that not being able to protect them from the world

436
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: that they live in is much more difficult. She knows

437
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: he has a secret and she'll love him no matter what,

438
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: but she also knows that not everyone will accept her

439
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 2: son as much as she does. And yeah, that's from

440
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 2: the Box article.

441
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And there are a lot of articles about

442
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: this about kind of the how queer people connect to

443
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: that idea of you have to hire this part of

444
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: yourself and being afraid to share it. So that's really interesting.

445
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons it resonates for

446
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: so many people too. Well, we have to talk about

447
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: the animation a little bit. We want to rain myself in.

448
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: But I would say, literally every frame, pause it it's

449
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: our I did it with the first one. It's really fun.

450
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: There's so much going on. I remember a lot of

451
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: people were saying, oh, I'm so overstimulated after seeing it,

452
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: And I saw it before. You and I went together

453
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: right on my second time. But my first time, I

454
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: was in the front row and I was like all

455
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: the way back like a played interurbulence. Yeah, I mean

456
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 1: both of them.

457
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: I was like, I because I saw have bad vision anyway,

458
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: and then my contacts often get blurry. But but the

459
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: way it sets up, I adjusted my contacts a lot, realizing,

460
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 2: oh no, that's just that's just the way it is.

461
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 2: It's from my vision as I typically think it is.

462
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: So I did a lot.

463
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh god, blinking, so many blinkings.

464
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is really cool, like all the different

465
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: styles and brain rates and how they interact and it

466
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: is awesome. I will say, the longest ever animated film

467
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: produced by an American studio, and it is part It's

468
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: essentially part one of two. I mean, it's a trilogy,

469
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: but I really feel like this one and the next

470
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: one are like a two parter. They said they tried

471
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: to put it all on one movie, but it just

472
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: was not happening. A fourteen year old did get hired

473
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: to animate the lego scene. The creators saw it on YouTube,

474
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 1: did not realize it was fourteen year old. They were

475
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: so impressed. They were like, all right, they.

476
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: Have a major motion picture under their resume at fourteen,

477
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 2: Like they are, They're done, They're ready, like they can

478
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: make these movies.

479
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. There have been some articles coming out lately,

480
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: which is especially interesting because we're still in the midst

481
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: of the writer's strike about some animators saying that this

482
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: was not sustainable. They can't keep working like this, and

483
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: in the words of this person, the next movie, which

484
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: is supposed to come out in March, might not come

485
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: out in twenty twenty four at all because it is

486
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: so much and several of the animators quit. One called

487
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: it death by a Thousand paper cuts because of the

488
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: lack of understanding by Lordly in this article. It was

489
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: a variety article about how three D animation works and

490
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: late revisions, so essentially like, at a certain point you

491
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: want to be I can't just revise this at the end.

492
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: It has to happen a lot in the beginning. But

493
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: it was kind of the opposite of that, and apparently

494
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: he needed to get every sequence approved. But it was

495
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: interesting because they were talking about what they're talking about

496
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: with the writers strike right now, and what we've talked

497
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: about and industries like this and like that, because they

498
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: were saying, you know you do you want to work

499
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: on something that you love, and they know that. And

500
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: also if you leave as an artist and someone else

501
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: takes over than your name, it's not yours anymore, especially

502
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: if they fix it at the end of that revision.

503
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: So they were talking about, like maybe we need to

504
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: do something with the union or something like that, so

505
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: we'll see how that plays out. There is also so

506
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: to add more work onto them. A woman led spinoff

507
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: called Spider Woman in the Mix. I don't know much

508
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,239
Speaker 1: about that yet. I don't think they've really said much

509
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: about it. And then a lot of articles have also

510
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: come out and I've made the argument that the success

511
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: of these films shows that people do want to see

512
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: more diverse representation, that it is more representative of all

513
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: of us. Here's a quote from MPR and North America

514
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: Exit tracking found that the audience was about one third

515
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: Latino and another third black and Asian. Diversity percentage is

516
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: far higher than for most superhero films. And like, going

517
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: back to the trans the possibility of a trans character,

518
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: Like so many people were talking about that, and it's

519
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: one of those things like I'm really happy that's in there.

520
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: That's a flag that says protect trans kids in Enguin's room,

521
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: but it's also so frustrating that it's like those little

522
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: scraps for your like, ah representation. I mean, I'm super

523
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: thrilled it's in there, but it's also like we could

524
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: get more, we could get more. And then, because I

525
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: have been really good and I haven't gone too long,

526
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a fun bit at the bottom, okay,

527
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: which is just some of my random Easter eggs.

528
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: All right, Okay, so just behind the curtain here, I

529
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: saw the outro. I thought it was the end. There's

530
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: a whole full other page.

531
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: I was gonna cut it if we went too long, but.

532
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: We did okay, So it was a surprise.

533
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: This whole recordings by surprise. I'm just I like to

534
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: keep you on your toes.

535
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: You.

536
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: I like you. You're good. So a couple of random

537
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: Easter eggs. There is a I believe it's a billboard

538
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: that says all of it always all over the place,

539
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: and it's a bagel place, which is everything everywhere all

540
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: at once, or a love it. There's a venom bit

541
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: that I love that Donald Gover does show up Donald Glover. Yeah,

542
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a couple, not a lot

543
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: of folks at Marvel's as in the MCUs, because soon

544
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,479
Speaker 1: this will be Marvel as well. Spider Man like doctor

545
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: Strange and to Yes, but I really want to go

546
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: through a very fun list. This is so minuscule. So

547
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: Polygon has this article where they identified like pretty much

548
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: all of the Spider people, and some of them are

549
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: so funny. But please look up the article. I was

550
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: cackling reading it and I can't believe this is all real,

551
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: but it is so all these quotes are from them.

552
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: But I thought, Samantha, you and I could go back

553
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: and forth with a few of my favorite ones. Okay,

554
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: let's start with jess Drew, a quote created in nineteen

555
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: seventy six in a rush to stop an animation studio

556
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: from grabbing the trademark to the Spider Woman name. Comic

557
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: book Jessica actually has no real relation to either Peter

558
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: Parker or Miles Morales, having instead acquired her powers in

559
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: a bewilderingly arcane origin involving Hydra, her geneticist father, and

560
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: possibly a talking cow. Spider versus Chess is thus a

561
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: wholesale reinvention of the concept, though comics Chess did famously

562
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: have a book in which she did superhero stuff while pregnant,

563
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: which she did in the movie Yes.

564
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: Hobby Brown, He was fun. Hoby won the affection of

565
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: fans by siding with people against their corporate oppressors, leading

566
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: the downtrodden masses against the establishment, and breaking his guitar

567
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: over the head of the United States President. I like it.

568
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: I love it.

569
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: Oh, she's very English punk.

570
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: I love that.

571
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 2: Yes. In the in the.

572
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: It's like magazine cut out santamation. So good, It's so good,

573
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: bombastic bag man. Peter Parker learned to his horror that

574
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: the black costume he had been wearing was actually a

575
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: symbiote alien from another planet that left him briefly without

576
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: any costume to wear around town. But longtime phrenemy Johnny

577
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: Human Torch Storm Lint a hand, giving Parker one of

578
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: his own extra suits, a paper lunch bag to put

579
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: over his face, and a kick me sign surreptitiously taped

580
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: to his back for good measure. Oh my gosh, I

581
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: can't believe this.

582
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: Is real Spider Cat. Which, yeah, you said spider people earlier.

583
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: There are a lot, a lot of that. He is

584
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: a spider man and also a cat. The typical cooterie

585
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: of gamers from Earth nine ninety nine. Spider Cat gained

586
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: his powers through an encounter with one of the mystical

587
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: Spider Totems in an untold tale that presumably makes as

588
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 2: much sense as any other story involving the mystical Spider Totems.

589
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: That's the thing.

590
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: It's a thing Spider verse. But wow, okay, yes, listen

591
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: to this one, Teter Tarker. Spider Rex is just because

592
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: it's heterodactyl, all yeah, yeah, but it is spelled everybody

593
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: p T E t R p t A r k

594
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: e R. But anyway, spider Rex, a resident of the

595
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: prehistoric world of Earth sixty six Wildfowler t Rex Peter

596
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: Darker had a chance encounter with a spider filled meteorite,

597
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: granting him wondrous spider like powers. In an early battle

598
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: against his nemesis Nerana Soorman uh Tarker accidentally allowed a

599
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: tree branch to take the life of the villain, teaching

600
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: him an important lesson about responsibility. So good.

601
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: And then we have the Peter parked car, which is

602
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: an anthropomorphic talking car Spider Man.

603
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: These are all in the movie movies.

604
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.

605
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: Yes, so all of those work quotes from that Polygon

606
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: article that's kind of just tracking all of the Easter

607
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: eggs in there, so please please go read it. I

608
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: was laughing so hard, but you can feel kind of

609
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: the it shines through that the fans are making these

610
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: and they're putting in all of these things. I love it.

611
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: I love it. Can't wait to go again. Yes, Wow,

612
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: this was fun. I'm excited about doing another Spoiled Saturdays,

613
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: So if you have suggestions for that, please let us know.

614
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: You can email us Stuff India Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia

615
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter I'm Mom

616
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I

617
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have a

618
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: teap book store. We have a book. You can pre

619
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: order it. It is coming out August twenty ninth. You

620
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: can pre order it at stuff you should read books

621
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: dot com. We also you can pre order it on Audible.

622
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: Thanks a zawais to our super producer Christina, our executive

623
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you, Hope I

624
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: didn't spoil everything for you. And thanks to you. Oh no, yeah, Steph,

625
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: I'll never told you. This production of iHeartRadio. For more

626
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: podcasts or my heart Radio, you can check out the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or regulusten to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows