WEBVTT - Marshall Chess 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sess Podcast. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:17.720 My guest today is Marshall Chess. Marshall, when did you 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.000 realize your father was in the record business? Oh? God, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:26.200 when I was maybe uh so in nineteen fifty, I 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.680 would be uh eight forty two, eight eight or ten 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.599 years old. When he first started. He used to bring 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.680 home the records, you know when when he first started, 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.240 which was ninety seven, But I really knew in nineteen 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.560 fifty when Chess started. Then I knew that was much 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.959 more because he started. He still had a nightclub when 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.839 he started, called the Macambo Lounge, and the company that 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.920 he bought to turn to Chess was called Aristocrat Records, 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.960 and he started working as a salesman. He wanted to 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.800 learn learn, so from nineteen forty seven to nineteen fifty, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.880 while the nightclub still existed, my uncle came back from 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:11.080 the army. He worked as a salesman for Aristocratic Record. 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.840 Whatever that meant um. I never even discussed that with him, 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.560 but that's what it says. He was a salesman and 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.120 then in nineteen fifty he formed Chess Records and started. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.920 Actually I was my father was a workaholic, from the always, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.480 so I hardly saw him. I was the first and 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.960 only son. I was desperate to play. He never played ball, right, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.160 he was an immigrant that came over in nineteen twenty two, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.480 So he wasn't We weren't playing ball. It wasn't the 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:46.680 typical American thing. He was always at work and uh, 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.720 you know, so I knew that that was my My 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.800 way to him was through the family business, through work. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:58.160 Let's start there. Okay, your father was an immigrant. Your 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.440 mother was she born in the States where she immigrant 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.680 to My mother was born in the States from immigrant parents. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.560 How did your parents meet? Uh? They met in Chicago. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:13.440 Evidently the real story was my father had a girlfriend. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.200 He must he was in his early twenties. He had 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.600 a girlfriend from a wealthier Jewish family that the father 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.840 made her not see my father because he was an 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.920 immigrant peasant. But my father really loved her, and uh, 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.680 I guess he met my mother was on the rebound. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:35.640 And um, they had a really close friend that both 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.560 my father and this guy, Marty Whitzel, worked at a 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.079 shoe store called Burger Shoe Store. Shoes, you know, shoe guys. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.360 It was a big, big, giant shoe store where everyone 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:52.200 got discount, cheaper Jewish kind of business. And they got married. 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.000 He my mother and my father and this guy Marty 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.919 and Millie. He had a double wedding and they got 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.320 married together. They were very close friends, and that's how 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.160 it began. You know. I've seen early photos of them 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.000 horseback riding in the park in Chicago. But yeah, they 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.880 got married very young. Um, and uh, that's how they met, 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.360 you know, through through My father didn't like working in 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.000 this shoe's store. He was a milkman before that. He 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:23.120 hated working for people. He instilled that in me very much, so, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:24.880 so I know, and I instilled it in my son 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.200 and my daughter, so I know how that goes when 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.960 you're in still young. But uh, he didn't want to 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.560 work for people, so he that in Chicago. We gotta 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.400 go back to a million black people came up from 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:45.720 the Illinois Central from Memphis, primarily from Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.280 Kentucky into Chicago to make money. They could not make 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.400 money in the South. It was short and that before 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.680 civil rights, not long after slavery. You know, it was 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.520 very difficult. World War two hit and the factories in 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:04.160 Chicago go, Uh, it became like a bloodline for making money. 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.600 So they you know, immigrants, Black immigrants along with Irish, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.640 Polish Jews. They all came to Chicago at the same 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.240 time and it was really an immigrant center. So my 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.680 father that black people could not they couldn't get a 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.599 store front. They didn't have bank accounts. People like young 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.640 people don't understand that no bank accounts, no storefront, didn't 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.960 know anything about business. And um, my father and my 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.599 uncle both heard black. My grandfather, Joe Chess came seven 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.839 years prior to America with okay, just one second, what 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:40.640 was the name in the old country and how to 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:47.440 become Chess Chess c z y z Chez and Ellis Island. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.640 They changed my grandfather, but they must have said, but 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.600 you know, what's your name? You know, get Joseph Chesz 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:58.000 Chess now and that was it. That's how it started. Okay, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.880 So your your grandfather came seven year before your father, 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.440 seven years prior with some relatives to Chicago. Guy was 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.400 a carpenter, uh part of the family from a small 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.680 village and on the pole it right now it's it's Belarus. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.480 He was right where all this trouble is now in Ukraine. 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.200 Right on the border. It was Poland then. And he 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.839 came from this small village Muttle, a Jewish little tavern. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.159 They had a tavern in town. It was a village 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.480 on the road. My grandfather was he was a traveling cobbler, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.039 shoemaker or whatever. He was fixed and he came to Chicago, 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.880 and uh he came, and he earned the money to 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.520 to bring over the family. Seven years later on Thelicitania, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.080 that same boat that picked up people from the Titanic. 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.840 They came from Southampton to Chicago to Walton, New York, 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.280 Southampton a train from Poland, I guess, and then to 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.040 Southampton to New York, trained to Chicago. My uncle said 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.280 when he got to London to the Southampton, he went 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.000 to the He never had an inside toilet. He didn't 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:00.520 know how to flush it. He was the chain in 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.800 one of those from the ceiling. He didn't know. That 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.560 was the first toilet he saw. But anyway, they came 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.039 because they didn't know English. And my grandfather was a 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.120 stern kind of guy. I heard later in life that 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.080 he was a child beater with a belt, you know. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.720 He used to really punish. But my father beat me 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.240 with a belt. Soul Yeah, my father beat me up 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.120 really bad ones. You know how they say that gets inherited. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.839 He did really bad one time. Um at Aside from that, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.880 so ac my grandfather evolved to a junkyard then he had. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.760 Then it was a scrap metal yard, and my uncle 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.320 said that part of their big business was getting empty 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.360 old bottles on the street. They'd sell to al Capone's 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.760 bootleg brewery to rebottle. My uncle said, I'll gave me 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.240 a hundred dollars when I went into the army, said 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.760 I'll gave you a hundred dollars and pre passing his whorehouse. 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.240 But we checked it by Sun and I and act impossible. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.520 It was like ten years difference. But it was someone 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.560 that was still that going on in Chicago. It was 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.960 someone you know. So anyway, across from that junkyard was 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.359 a black church, the the old kind with an upright piano, 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.640 tambourines and a bass drum. And they would hear they 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.600 heard the gospel singing and they were fascinated because my 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.840 uncle would tell me. My uncle was the guy who 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.880 told you all the real stories. My father was about business, 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.240 you know, making sure that you could handle life, not 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:26.120 the old stories. But anyway, my uncle said, yeah, man, 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:30.520 we heard the black singing. And we'd stand there and 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.800 and we listened, fascinated to the music. And we'd come 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.040 home late and Zadi would beat us with his belt, 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.280 the grandfather for being late for dinner. But in the 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.600 village in Poland, evidently one guy had a wind up 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.400 petrolla and when you play it, like half the town 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.160 would come under the window to hear that, you know, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.160 to hear music. I don't think they've done sounding like 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.520 they had any live music in that little village. Um. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.360 And so that's how that began. So he uh, he 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.520 was around black people right from the beginn any before 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.960 he spoke English, you know, there wasn't you know, there 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.080 was this that was it was in the ghetto that 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.480 you know, where the church was, where the junkyard was. 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.680 And anyway, when he wanted to go on his own, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:16.080 he found out through the grapevine or whatever that if 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.640 you white guys can you could get a really cheap 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.120 lease for a storefront in the ghetto if you were white. 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.760 This is this is your grandfather, my father, my father father. Okay, 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.040 just to be clear, your your grandfather came your grandfather 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.920 was working in the junkyard and your father worked there too. Yeah, 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.360 my father worked there too, and then um he left. 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.679 My grandfather closed the junkyard evidently, and he he had 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.079 earned enough. He bought some Rundown apartment building and he 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.120 made it into a you know, he had to end 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.880 of a sort of ghetto apartment buildings, a few of them. Actually, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:50.920 my uncle lived in one. So it wasn't so bad, 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.720 you know. Okay, So when did the shoe store come 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.760 before or after he got the store? Oh? No, the 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.240 shoester came wait after, that's already after high So so 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.719 he got the store front and keep going. He got 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.520 the storefront on State south State Street, right on the 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.280 edge of the Black ghetto where you know, still the ghetto, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.000 but then on the south side of Chicago. And he 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:16.319 opens cut Right Liquors. And he sees that on weekends, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.560 the eagle flies on Friday, that famous blue song. He 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.400 sees that they're coming in like crazy to buy booze, 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.600 you know, the party. He loves it. He sees that's 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.120 a business. He learns black culture, he learns how to 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:33.480 talk to the customers. He works by himself, fifteen eighteen 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.360 hours a day. That's kind of guy. I was always 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:41.360 and uh my father owned a liquor store too, same thing, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.880 same thing, in the black area of Bridgeport. So he 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.720 quickly moved to uh two years later to a corner. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.200 This is the story. I've heard a couple of versions, 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.080 but I'll tell you the version that I want to believe. 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.559 He moved to the seven oh eight club a couple 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.319 of two years later, maybe nine forty five or six. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.079 And I was a little kid then to be or 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.480 I was born. Okay, but just a couple of questions. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.600 World War two is happening, how does he not? Yeah, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.000 my uncle went, My uncle went off. My uncle went 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:17.440 off to the Lucian Islands. My dad could not get drafted. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:22.880 He wore a brace on his left leg, a leather 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:28.319 brace from some you know, some village disease, probably polio, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.480 rheumatic fever, they don't know. And to get into America, 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:33.920 they had to throw the brace overboard and he had 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.040 to walk straight. They didn't elect cripples in you know, 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:43.120 cripples had to go to another line in that era. Um, 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.360 so he couldn't go to the army. That kept him out. 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.080 And you know, coincidentally, I've had back surgery had I 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.320 lost the I lost the nerve in my left leg, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.400 and now it's thin like his. It's so bizarre, you know, stranger, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.199 stranger things happened, I guess. So I have a thin 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.480 leg now, but you could only notice it a little 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.400 bit if he had a bathing suit on. It wasn't 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.680 drastic anyway. Uh yeah. So then he had the club, 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:12.320 the seven oh eight, and there was a jukebox, so 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.080 not only got the booze, he sees their dropping nickels. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.040 That was it wasn't five cents of play Nichols like 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.400 crazy along with the booze. And he said music booze. 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.319 You know, he was he was the successory and the 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.520 guy he felt and he I think he was insecure 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.240 around white people. Now I think he felt being an immigrant. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.280 I think he felt a very symbiotic security with the 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.520 black people. I always felt that. I mean, you know, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.320 we always had black friends there way before man was 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.719 the first infractional of men in Chicago. Really part, I 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.160 mean it was, but he I always felt, as I 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.480 got older and learned about psychology that maybe he was 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.959 a little insecure, you know, being an immigrant and all that. 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.360 But anyway, he opened the club and then um, he 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.079 got a light. The next thing wasn't nineteen forty five. 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.640 I guess he that I read in this well researched 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.439 book called Spinning Losing to Gold. It's still online. We're 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.640 really well researched. I guess he got a license for 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.600 the Macambo Lounge, which was his nightclub. It had a 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:16.280 stage Bob's Ribs in the back that he get ribs. 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.560 It became a live music There was a guy Tips 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.839 forget his first name, El Tips, played a saxophone. It 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.160 was a house band bar Long Bar. I was only 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.200 in there one time. I have my famous Marshall's story. 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.200 My father takes me there, picks me up at the house. Again. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.480 I only was around him if I had to go 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.160 to work, so he picks We lived at forty four 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:45.440 in Drexel, which was on the edge of the third 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:50.320 floor walk up. And but it was a Polish Irish 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:55.760 Jewish neighborhood. But eight blocks eight blocks north was the 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.920 black line where the black you know. So that's where 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.800 the club was a twelve fourteen blocks away the Macambo Lounge. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.160 And then my dad picked me up and it was 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.720 in the night early seven eight o'clock at night. They 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.040 used to take turns. When my uncle came back from 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.640 the army, he came back while the club was still 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:16.600 working and I walked in with my dad. Hold it. 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.880 I was little man, you know, and there was a 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.640 gunshot and he threw me over the bar to my 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.960 uncle who was the bartending, and my uncle laid me 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.320 down on these horrible wooden slats that were on the 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.200 floor and laid on top of me to protect me. 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.760 To this day, the smell of rotten alcohol and scummed 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.160 that my face was pressed. Now, I can remember the smell. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.600 And that was my first time there. And then, you know, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.679 whatever it was, the problem ended and they took me home. 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.079 You know, I don't remember the details, but I should 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.080 remember that that he threw me over the counter, you know. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.320 Um it was a rough club. One of the oldest employees, 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.920 this guy Gene Ross, who was held big six ft 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.840 five guy who was half black and half Cherokee Indian. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.440 He loved federal prisons. He always got in trouble for 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.640 he was a drug but he worked in my father 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.280 as a bouncer and he the reason he was always around. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.680 During that Macombo time. A guy came after my father 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.560 with a knife and Big Jean jumped in front and 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.000 took the knife. And after that he was He always 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.440 had a job when he was out of prison, even 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.960 when my dad had a DeSoto from that At the 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.360 time of the club, my mother was crying. Brand his 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.960 first new car, or de Soto was was a Christlier 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.800 car at the time Christlier owned it. Um that Jeane 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.560 galbas that he had heroin in the glove compartment, and 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.400 the Feds confiscated the car and my dad freak and 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.480 Jane of course went to prison again. I saw him 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.720 all the way to when I worked with the Rolling 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.320 Stones when we tore Chicago. He found Jesus. He became 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.520 a religious guy. But yeah, he found me. During the concert, 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.880 I couldn't believe it. I went to the sidelines and 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.840 saw him and had people, you know, he was big guy. 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:07.480 They five Marshal Chress. Yeah he was good. But that 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.880 was so that. Yeah, he had the club and then uh, 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.920 you know, someone came into they came into record. I 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.360 think Aristocrat was owned by many people, and he just 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.080 you know again and perked up. He went from the 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.480 liquor store to the corner tevan to a nightclub. Now, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.680 like black people music, record business. What's the record business? 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.440 And like my just typically like my father, he became 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.480 a salesman to learn it, to see what it was about. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.600 And coincidentally one of the artists do it. And it 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.000 wasn't a black label. It was seventy eight and it 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.760 was they had folk music, all kinds of different artists, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.200 but one of the artists was Muddy Waters. At that time, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:48.960 he was a truck driver as well. His name was 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.560 McKinley morgan Field. But he was already well known from 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.720 uh Alan Lomax, the famous document. Well, he was the 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.280 guy recorded all the music in the South. He had 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.920 recorded Muddy for historical recording from the cotton fields. What 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.560 was the name of that plantation? He he actually lived 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.600 on a plantation. Used to tell me he'd catch fish 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.600 for forget a nickel of fish, and Hollywood, you know, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.640 all kinds of stories. His first guitar strings around the 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:20.440 wall of the cabin that he ran strings the strum um. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.640 He was the closest of the artist to me because 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.360 he was my father's true friend. They grew together. He said, 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.920 there was a radio show when my dad died because 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.960 we owned a radio station and w v O N 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.640 the Voice of the Negro, the first modern black radio 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.000 station in America, first black news director, etcetera, etcetera. But 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.640 Muddy said, uh yeah, Leonard, Leonard Chess was a true friend. 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.360 He would have said on me chest and I would 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.440 have said, Leonard made me. You know, they had this, 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.200 you know, and these were he hits. Ten thousand, twelve 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.400 thousand was a giant Blue said, this is not million sellers, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.480 so miss and screwed by people as time goes on. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.880 You know, uh, two cents the publishing was two cents royalty, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.280 you know, um uh, you know it was a whole 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.000 other thing. There were no giant hits then. The first 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.760 TiO we had was the ninet with when rock and 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.439 roll broke with Chuck Berry and Roddaly. That was a 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:23.080 big year. That was my thirteen bar mitzvah it hits 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.040 first money started rolling in and everything changed in my life. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.920 I told that, I told that I took my son, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:34.239 who's the third generation record man, Jo Marches. He's uh 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.199 the thrill to see that he carry he's carrying it 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:41.440 on on his own as well. But uh, he wanted 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.080 to meet Chuck Berry. So he he was on his 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.280 farewell through and he was in his eighties. He was 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.520 playing at BB King's Club in Chicago. So I took 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.320 him and Chuck and I were friends. I was his 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.520 road manager when he came out of prison. You know, 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.040 I knew him well. So I took my son backstage 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.399 and I said to him, you know, it was like 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.480 an emotional thing. I don't know, it brings up my 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.560 father and everything. So I said to Chuck, you know 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.080 I never told you this, but man, n five, when 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:13.679 I was thirteen, you change you. Man changed my life. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.800 I got a Schwin three speed bicycle. We moved out 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.520 of that walk up apartment. Everything changed, you know, with 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.000 maybe Lane nineteen fifty five. And he said, what are 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.359 you talking about? He took my hand and his eyes 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.800 were watering up. Just what are you talking about? You 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:36.160 changed mine in ninety five. What a what a beautiful moment. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.800 And my son heard that, you know it was beautiful. Yeah. Okay, 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.520 So let's your father becomes a salesman. When he's a salesman, 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.840 he sells the club. He's out of the club already. No, 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.560 not out of the club, though I can now that 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.440 everyone's dead. No one's gonna assue me. No. In nineteen 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.040 and nine. In nineteen four fifty, right before he bought 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:04.439 Chess Records, strangely enough, off the club burned down with 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.240 a really nice insurance policy, and my uncle against there 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.760 you had those motherfucker's. The firemen were passing out cases 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:13.960 of liquor. They weren't fighting the fucking fire. And we 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.719 didn't say a word. And then I actually remember my 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.240 dad didn't trust banks. I never remember. It's vague, but 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.480 I'll tell you. Maybe you know it's just for color. 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.280 I don't think. He took a cashed the check from 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.520 the insurance and brought it home in cash, and it 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.760 was all laid out on the bed hundred dollar bills 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.520 and that's what he used to buy to buy them out, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.600 to buy Chess records them a combo down. So first 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.800 it was aristocratic records. Tell me how it ends up 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.120 becoming Chess. He bought him out here after two years 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:46.840 of being a salesman and wanting to go on the 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.679 record business. He they offered the one of the the 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:55.760 one of the women of Evelyn, her name was Evelyn, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.199 who was one of the owners from the beginning. She 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.880 had been married twice. I I had a feeding even 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.240 my father and her had just my own idea from 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.719 that that they had a thing. But she ended up 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.320 getting married for a second time or so I wanted 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.119 to get out of the business, wanted to sell it. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.159 They wanted to sell it, and so he inherited that 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.720 the late you know, he bought it because Mighty Waters 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.960 was on it. You know, he bought it whatever. I 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.359 don't know the cost or anything. And then they renamed 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.720 it Chess Records. Yeah, no, they renamed it because they 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.800 had My father had one of the record pressers for 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.399 Aristocrat was the guy out of Memphis, one of the 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.240 first pressing plants in America named Buster. Williams. Bussy used 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.480 to fly up. He he flew a twin cessna Southern 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.680 gentleman he was. But somehow him and my father had 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.000 this great relationship. And Buster is the one when my 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.760 dad told him, you you're gonna you'll be my presser. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.600 I'm buying Aristocrat. I want to change your name. He suggested, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.800 why don't you just call it Chess Records, and that 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.000 that was from Buster, and he he was a family 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.800 friend with We were always in the pressing business. Tool 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.200 from him. He was in we were We we had 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.440 such a unique thing, and we'll talk later. But at 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.040 the end we had this eight story building that had 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:18.840 three studios, full record pressing plan, injection pressing, printing, and plating. 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.520 You could come in, you could make it. It has 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.159 never been something like that. It was the old Wallen 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.960 Sack recorder building that in Chicago, and it was a 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:32.159 manufacturing building, and we we had this fabulous, unbelievable with 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.479 an elevator. They had a rooftop sauna where they were 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.320 bringing their girlfriends. They had like a whole rooftop sauna, barbershop, 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.320 all you know. The the guys who were built the building, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:44.960 and we bought that building so it was all all 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:49.000 under one roof. But we always the problem with the independents. 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.320 There were weren't a lot of independent pressing plans. So 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.880 if when the independent record business broke, if you if 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.760 five labels had hits it one time, you couldn't always 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:04.080 get your product. And so owning a plant was important. 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.160 My father thought that was an important thing, and we 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.800 could press for the other guys when they were even hits. 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.439 But we started with a very small plant. I actually 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.920 worked to press when I was sixteen. I was raised 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.760 to be a record man a record while my um 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.359 I I've been told that. Uh. I went on the 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.960 road the first time when I was thirteen, through the 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.479 South my dad. We arrived in New Orleans, I met 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:29.840 caused the famous Cosmo. My dad gave me a ten 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.360 dollar but he said, I'll see it tonight. I tell 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.960 my wife that your mother that you wander around New 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:40.080 Orleans at ten ten dollars was like fifty then too. Yeah. 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.639 I went to three movies eight like a pig. I 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.800 did it. He ran and I was always an independence soul. 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.359 He always you know, let's thread a few let's spread 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.040 a few needles. You've got in business with the guy 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.639 in Memphis? Was he partners in the press? Buster just 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.399 on the pressing plant, but he would have been. He 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.399 was going to be the press, our press for the 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:03.280 whole country. Okay, So what was your friends from the aristocrat? 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:14.360 He pressed the aristocrat. So what were the first records? 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.480 And then what was the first big hit? The first 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:23.920 chess session? I actually went again. I wanted I wanted 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.560 to be around my dad. We well before we built 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:29.719 our own studios in Chicago, had one famous great recording 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:33.880 was called Universal Recording. They ended up becoming Bill Putnam. 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:38.200 Maybe he opened this became famous making studio equipment, limits 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:41.800 and stuff for the studios. The first was Gene Emmons, 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.320 My foolish Heart, I have a friend here on eight 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:49.560 my heaven um. I slept on three metal folding chairs. 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:54.280 My dad took me to the studio to see that. 0:23:54.280 --> 0:24:00.000 That was the first one, and it was chess for fifty. 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.680 Karlov was their first department in America. He was superstitious 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:07.520 about ship and that I inherited because when I did this, 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:10.960 I had my own label, the psychedelic label to dead concept. 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.360 The first record I did was three twelve, my father's birthday. 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.679 We were always and you know again the black early 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.280 black culture. You know, it came from African man. It 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:25.080 was voodoo, mojo man, all that. And my father very 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:30.639 much was exposed to the whole kind of you know, superstition. 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.639 I mean, this is a sidebar since we're talking about it. 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:39.920 When I was maybe in high school seventeen, when Buddy Guy, 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.720 the famous blues guy now was a studio guy. He 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:46.439 was going back to Mississippi and I asked him to 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.520 bring me a mojo so I could get girls. And 0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:53.479 he brought me this little pink bag. It smelled like 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.720 the cheapest Woolworth perfuman and he had like pig bristles 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:00.560 sticking out of it, like bristles, you know, and you 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.760 penned see the white T shirt. Everyone were I've pinned 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:08.880 it when I went to work, you know, in that air, 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:11.359 if you're lucky to touch the brass draft, you know 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:16.360 it didn't work, you know. Okay, so you're first, you've 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:18.959 touched the top of the rasio. You you were bragging 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:22.399 into your buddies. You know. So your father and your 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:28.280 uncle are producing these records too, right, learning how to produce? Yeah? Producing? Yeah, 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:30.800 So they didn't know what they were doing. They just 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.040 wann't turned on what they were doing. But know if 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:37.320 they didn't keep things moving, it would collapse. How do 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:43.199 I know that because in my my I produced my 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:47.320 first album in nineteen sixty two, I was twenty years old. 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:50.359 When I was eighteen or nineteen, I was worked. I 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:53.600 worked always every summer. Um. I just loved it. I 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:57.119 wanted being there. I loved it. I loved it. If 0:25:57.200 --> 0:25:59.560 my dad said to me, they used to record the studio, 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:02.439 wasn't upon floor, my dad would say, he said, go 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:04.480 up to the studio. I have to go to the 0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:06.600 I have to go to a meeting. Not your uncle's 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:10.280 not here. I said, do what you know? He said, 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:13.280 just tell the motherfucker's to take another one. I said 0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:16.199 what he said, Look, if you don't tell him to 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:18.960 take another one, they're gonna sit around talking about pussy 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:22.520 and jobs. Nothing's gonna get done. He said, one of 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:24.359 those takes is gonna be a mother. He said, we 0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:26.760 said motherfucker a lot in my family. That one of 0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:29.960 those takes is gonna be a motherfucker. And uh, that's 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.439 what I did. So that's how he learned. Do what 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:36.040 That's exactly what I'm saying, Take another one, take another one. 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.600 But another thing I learned from my father. I still 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:41.720 do it today. I'm producing a record right now with 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:47.919 a partner. Surround yourself, make symbiotic relationships of stuff you 0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:52.200 don't know, like great, it'll be better. So he always 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.960 you have to. He surrounded himself with people who knew 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:58.160 music and then watched and learned from them. The first 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:01.400 guy that was the closest was his name is Willie Dixon, 0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:05.040 the blues writer, producer, bass player. He'd get all the 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:08.840 bands together. He would co produced really all those early 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:12.399 sessions with my father, but little by little, my father 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:16.160 learned how to produce. What do you really learned was 0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:20.919 what made records sell because we weren't making art. We 0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:24.600 were making singles and everyone artists, all of us, wanted hits. 0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:28.040 It was all about making money. Artists didn't care about art. 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:30.200 Then they all wanted to hit. They came to Chess 0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.760 because they wanted We got radio play. We paid off 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:36.879 this jockeys. We got hits, you know. So you know 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:40.399 my father learned. I mean, he was very responsible. We 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:44.560 had what we had. His nickname, he was very responsible 0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:49.400 for so much in rock and roll. Um. His studio 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.320 nickname was the foot Stomper. That's because he wanted that 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:56.560 strong backbeat. He was stomped his foot. He even played 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.600 bass drum on blues record once to show him what 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:03.840 he wants. So when I Chuck Berry died, you know, 0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:05.920 eight or ten years ago, his wife asked me to 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:08.520 speak at his funeral in St. Louis, I said, of 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.359 course I knew him, well, everyone else is dead really 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:14.720 that knew him directly. I went and it was amazing, 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:18.080 like five people in this big auditorium and they treat 0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:21.120 him like Mozart in St. Louis. I mean he's very famous. 0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:25.119 Um and uh so that I did. I did my 0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:27.840 spear with speech. The governor was in line with me. 0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:31.080 This was a major thing. His family was all sitting 0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:33.040 there and nodding, and you know me when I was 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:37.680 speaking telling stories. So then there was a break, Uh 0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:40.360 what to pull out the casket? He had like twenty 0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:44.920 all white Cadillacs with motorcycles. It was amazing. And I'm 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:47.800 standing was a hot sunny day and I see this 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:51.640 like I could tell he was well dressed. Kelly was 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:54.200 a Jewish guy leaning. I'm leaning on the same post. 0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:56.760 We're waiting, and he says, who are you? And I said, 0:28:57.000 --> 0:28:59.600 Marshall said, oh, I know, you know your father. I'm 0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:03.880 Chuck lawyer, you know. And he tells me you know 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:07.160 all of Chuck and this lawyer. But then another guy, 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.120 a black man, came up to me and he said, 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.600 Mr Chess. He said, I gotta tell you something you 0:29:12.720 --> 0:29:16.080 probably don't know. I heard you speaking there. You know 0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:19.840 your daddy I was there. I went with Chuck when 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:22.200 he made maybe leading in Chicago. You know it was 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:25.520 your daddy who kept pushing for the beat and it 0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:29.440 was your daddy who turned up to echo. Your daddy 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:32.240 did it. And I I never heard that or known that. 0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:36.640 I knew the chess our music was a tremendous part 0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:38.600 of the foundation of rock and roll. I mean, it's 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:41.000 the fact, that's a great legacy. I know that for 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:44.040 a fact that that's true. But I never knew my 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.160 dad was that he was the big he was the 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:48.720 beat and that and no, we did. We had a 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:52.600 homemade echo chamber. It was in the basement. I used 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:55.000 to have to go down there because of rats making noise, 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:58.520 just like you would. Because it was a long sewer pipe. 0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:02.000 It was all very in ventive stuff, man, the beginning 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:06.719 of creativity making records. We wanted these sounds, just like 0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:09.280 like a lot of reggae has it. We wanted this 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:14.160 black audience then love these unique sounds, different things, echo, 0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.720 big beats, loud of guitar. That was a very it 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:20.080 was it made it sell more, that's a better way 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:23.840 to tell you. And so we had this long clay 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.200 sewer pipe with a chief speaker at one end and 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:28.160 the mic on the other and they would send the 0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:30.720 signal down to the speaker. It would go through the 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:32.840 mic be picked up by the mic and sent back up. 0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:36.400 That was the echo. And then there were so they 0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:40.680 were used to be noises and uh they'd say, there's rats, 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:44.400 go down there. I had to go down. I was 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.480 was get the coffee. I was. That's I was the 0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:48.520 coffee boy. To that was one of my first my 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:52.080 first job. I should tell you that story. Um So 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:55.600 I went down there and I see all these old 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.120 boxes and I opened up one, you know a stack 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:00.440 of four or five boxes, and it's full of seventy 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:03.959 eight Louis Armstrong on the leavel. I go back up 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:06.280 to my uncle. I could never talk about. My father 0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:08.760 went to even disgust it with me. I said, Phil, 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:12.200 what's the Louis Armstrong? Oh ship? When times were hard, 0:31:12.240 --> 0:31:14.920 we had to do some ship. I guess they were bootlegs, 0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:17.719 you know that to pay the pet the cell, they 0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:22.040 must have, you know, done something. They weren't original pressings, 0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:26.320 that's for sure, But that that's a that's a true thing, man, 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.800 that they always wanted to change the sound and make 0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:32.200 it better. We had our own mastering. Our studio was 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:35.000 built on springs. It was brilliant. You know, all those 0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.080 like the rolling stones when they came to Chicago. I 0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:41.840 set that up in nine you know, because I got 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.040 to know them well for seven years. I hung out 0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:48.080 with him nightly. They would say they thought play they 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.120 wanted to record a chess that that's why I set 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:52.840 it up there. Manager Andrew Olam called me. I got 0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:56.040 the call because he had a foreign accent. That's why 0:31:56.240 --> 0:32:00.000 I'd already been to England um to set up chess internationally. 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.680 That was another one of my early jobs. But anyway, 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:05.440 aside from that, Michael said, use them. The stone S 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.400 thought if they recorded at the Chess studio, they sound 0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:11.600 like a chess record. Of course that's not the truth. 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:14.960 It's the playing. Yeah, the studio is something. Actually, they 0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:19.400 wrote and pre produced Satisfaction and that's then they finished 0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:23.520 the recording in l A on that tour in But 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:26.760 that was my first experience with them and seeing those 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:32.000 English groups when they came to Chicago. Okay, so let's go, 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:36.720 let's go bork. Okay, So your father's making these different records, 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:42.719 how does he go into and how does he go 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:46.960 into rock and his Chuck Berry the first person he 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:50.040 got I got it, I got it ready, here we go. 0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:55.480 Chuff Berry wanted to be a blue singer, you know. 0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:59.520 And he came up to Chicago with his wife. You 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:02.560 need no his wife, that muddy wife. He came to 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:04.960 Chicago with his wife that I don't forget what her 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.680 name is. He came to Chicago with his wife. They 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:10.800 want to hear Muddy Waters. He was a giant Muddy 0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:13.320 Waters fan in the club. And after that gig, he 0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:16.160 went to Muney says, look, I made a tape. What 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.920 do I do to get on a record? He says, 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:22.000 go see letter Chess tomorrow morning. Tell the Muddy Waters name. 0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:25.600 And that's exactly what he did. And he went and 0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.720 waked in the morning. He said, Muddy Waters told me 0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:32.400 to see you, Mr Chess. My dad went in and 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:36.840 played the tape and it was two sides. It was 0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.520 a cut named I'd a Read and and one called 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:44.080 we We Ours. We We Ours was a straight twelve 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:47.920 bar blues like Muddy Waters would sing. We Were Ours 0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:52.520 was a unique different song which perked my father up. 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:55.640 It was called I'd a Red My Fithers. I don't 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:59.680 like the title, and I'm not sure about the lyric, 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.560 the way it sounds the guitar to beat. You got 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.800 something different there let's make a deal, but go and 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:11.440 rewrite the song. And there happened to be one of 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:16.000 the girls that had lipstick or makeup called Mabel Lean Cosmetics. 0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.960 It was a company called Mabel Line. You probably remember that. 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:23.759 And uh they looked. He called Mabel Line and he 0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:26.680 was back within two weeks and it were written Maybe Line, 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:32.800 called it Maybe Lane. They recorded it, and that was 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:37.560 in and he went. So all the road trips were 0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:41.920 done by car. No planes wouldn't have the money. Was 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:45.439 a small company, was blues company. He was on the road. 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:47.359 He started in New York and he was gonna work 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:51.359 his way back to Chicago. At that time, the king 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:54.680 of radio in New York was the disjecty named Alan Freed. 0:34:55.200 --> 0:34:58.759 Everyone knew about Allan Freed. And it was also the 0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:02.919 time of massive payola. You know, uh, the independent record 0:35:02.920 --> 0:35:07.080 business would never have even developed without payola. I mean 0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:10.920 payola is what allowed anyone to make a record and 0:35:11.040 --> 0:35:12.799 check it out and put it on the radio. See 0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:14.640 of the phone ring of people wanted to buy it. 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:20.479 So anyway, my dad goes and plays Allen Freed, Maybe Lane. 0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:24.440 Allen Freed. Hears it. It's something special and different. He 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:27.319 coined the word rock and roll. That was all part 0:35:27.320 --> 0:35:32.000 of the Chuck Barry Alan create Alan Kline. Instead of 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:36.440 giving him money, he became the writer of Maybe Lane. 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:40.400 He went on as writer that was his and that 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.439 night and my dad got in this car or drive 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:46.680 back to Cleveland. Right one day drive, Alan played Maybe 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:51.360 Lene NonStop three hours, over and over, broke the records. 0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:55.360 My dog get My dad got to Cleveland. He calls 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:58.280 my uncle in Chicago. Because they didn't have cell phones 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.120 in or anything or internet caused my uncle and he says, 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:04.399 what's up. What the fund is going on? It's going 0:36:04.480 --> 0:36:08.360 crazy here. The phone rings every two seconds. This Alan 0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:12.439 freed Maybellen. It's broke. We gotta hit Landard, we gotta 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:17.560 hit And of course he rushed back to Chicago and 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:20.719 began to spread it. By then we had independent distributors, 0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:23.359 you know, all the indie labels. There was a whole 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:26.799 group of independent distributors all across the country. It's so 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.800 funny when I hear that Kanye West bullshit anti sembatic. 0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:33.120 Everyone I knew had there was all Jewish names. I 0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:35.160 could give you a list of thirty, you know, you know, 0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:38.000 they were all these Jewish guys like my father and uncle, 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:42.200 you know who who who? Just like the early movie guys, 0:36:42.320 --> 0:36:45.160 you know, they send something about this music and all 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:50.240 that um. But coincidentally, in nineteen fifty five, a couple 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.160 of months later, Bo Diddley came in, who was the 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:57.000 Chicago street artist. My uncle heard that tape again and 0:36:57.040 --> 0:36:59.400 put out Bo Diddley. So we had these two major 0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:04.560 pre foundational rock and roll hits in nineteen fifty and 0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:08.400 like I say, my life changed. Our whole family's life changed. 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:11.279 And I must say the world began to change, maybe 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:14.440 because rock and roll change the world, and my family 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:16.600 had a lot to do with it. And you know, 0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:19.480 I never realized that Bob Krasnell, you know that that 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:23.320 was you know. Of course Bob once sold me so 0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:25.919 don't you know yours the first family of rock and roll? 0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:28.160 He said, you don't even know that, and I said, 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.320 you're right. Bob and I had taken much rooms together. 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:33.239 We were like when he had we had uh, he 0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:36.680 had Blue Thumb, Blue Thumb Records. Bob was the one 0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:39.239 who steered me to the Rolling Stones. He wanted to 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:42.560 join me with me to sign the Rolling Stones. That's 0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:45.320 how I found out that they were available, you know, 0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:48.160 they wanted them to do something. And I told Bob, 0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:51.320 I said, after tripping with you, you know, motherfucker, we 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:53.759 could never work together. Our egos. That was that era 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:56.279 of you know, our egos are way too big. I said, 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:58.319 will you give me Mick Jagger's phone number? He gave 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:00.560 me his home phone number. That's how it all began 0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:04.279 for me through Bob Krasnow. Okay, but let's let's go back. 0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:09.560 Let's go back to the blues era. Your father's cutting everybody. Well, 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.920 it starts with Muddy Waters. Who becomes who has hits? 0:38:13.200 --> 0:38:16.160 I feel like going home? They were big hits, you 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:19.640 know not. I mean again, there was a radio station 0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:22.719 in the South w l a c H fifty thou 0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:26.440 watch white disc jockeys, but they played blues black music. 0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:29.880 It would cover thirteen states at night, all through the South. 0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:32.680 So you you know, we were we were having like, 0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:36.320 you know, blues hits. I'd say the biggest record thirty 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:40.560 would be a giant, giant blues hit, like a million 0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:43.880 man sellar. But yeah, we were having hits. But Muddy 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:48.000 Waters and all the airplay put Chess on the map 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:50.200 with every other blues artist who wanted to be on 0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:54.200 the radio and they it became a magnet. And then 0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:56.680 how and then and then at the same time we 0:38:56.760 --> 0:39:00.719 had a great deal with Sam Philip who own Sun 0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:04.080 who eventually had Sun Records with Alvis, but before that 0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:07.640 he was probably one of the first record producers of 0:39:08.280 --> 0:39:10.560 you know, white record pruces of black musical will in 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:13.880 my father. At the same time, he sent us Howling Wolf, 0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:17.160 you know, and then we had Hollowing Wolf. And then 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:19.480 we had another big hit called which they say is 0:39:19.520 --> 0:39:22.439 the first rock and roll record, called Rocket eighty eight 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:26.200 by Jackie Brinston and who was the saxophone player for 0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:29.879 Ike Turner's orchestra. I con Tina Turner. It wasn't ten then, 0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:34.799 just like and we had that yet, Uh, Rocket eighty eight. 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:37.160 I'll never forget the way those cars two tone paint. 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:39.200 That was the big ghetto car because it was the 0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:43.319 first with two tone. Yeah, and uh, don't be late, 0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:46.000 come on baby in my Rocket eighty eight, you know. Okay, 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:49.359 So what were those old blues guys like and what 0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:52.640 was their man? You're asking me that everyone asked me that. 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:55.520 Here's what they were like, Marshall, Did you get me yet? 0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:59.759 Did you dick get checked out. Yet they ever asked me. 0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:03.040 They only cared about it if I ever discovered sex. 0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:06.600 I was twelve, thirteen years old, fourteen. They didn't talk 0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:10.320 about business or music with me at all. Zero I 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:12.440 have you get And I was, like I said, at 0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:14.360 that time, I was the coffee boy. I have to 0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:18.200 walk to get before we had people and coffee machines 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:20.360 and offices, he had to go out to get it. 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:23.120 In that area, they had shitty cardboard cups with these 0:40:23.160 --> 0:40:26.680 horrible paper bags that would leak, they disintegrate. My hands 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:29.440 would be burning, you know. But what were they like? 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:31.880 They were great muddy waters. Just to call me his 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:35.239 white grandson, his wife guenivis to semi fried. He'd bring 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:38.480 me fried chicken and the thickest illuminum foil. Then was 0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:41.600 sick man. I can remember that he'd bring me that, 0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:44.800 you know, money, money was. I was the closest the money. 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:48.839 He first time I met money was. I always told 0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:51.960 this story. But you're already a still probably like it. Um, 0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:54.120 I might it must have been. I must have been. 0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:58.359 So I'm just trying to think. Twelve years old, we 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.840 had moved from the third floor are with blues moved 0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:03.879 up from the third floor walk up to a row 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:08.399 house thirty six South Gates. Um on the south side, 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:12.400 should call my uncle lived two blocks away. I'm on 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:14.400 the front yard and literally with a house next to 0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:17.879 a cattle that pulls up and this guy comes out 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:21.480 and he's got the bright green, iridescent green suit with 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:24.680 hair looked like with a foot high, like who the fuck? 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:27.160 You know, as a kid of you, what is this? 0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:29.799 You know? Um, I had seen black people, but this 0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:33.439 was duked out and the car and I looked down 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:36.360 and his shoes blew me away. They were like pinto 0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:39.560 pony hair of the fur of a course or cow. 0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:42.239 And you looked at me and say, you must be 0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:46.400 young chess. You'll pappy home. That's how I met Muddy 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:51.320 waters Man, and uh, he came over again advice money. 0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:53.040 I don't know. I wasn't in, you know, I don't 0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:55.760 know what went on, you know, I I was dragging 0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:58.200 around and I didn't when they were I never saw. 0:41:58.760 --> 0:42:00.520 I went on the road with my father, you know, 0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:02.920 I saw he was paying people off, but I didn't 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:05.520 know what it even was. You know, I sort of 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.160 was just I just was. It was all a natural thing. 0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:11.719 And I always wanted to make records like my dad. 0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:13.680 I had a chance when I was twenty in nineteen 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:18.480 sixty two, I got to go to Muscle Beach Uh 0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:24.120 in Carolina, Muscle shoals Uh and recorded Bowls Beach Party 0:42:24.120 --> 0:42:26.480 with a lot of desktop was there wasn't a remote 0:42:26.520 --> 0:42:30.440 recording land. Me and the sales manager, Max Cooperstein, we 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:32.759 co produced it. And in the middle of that, I'll 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:34.320 give you an example of how it was, so you 0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:37.799 want to know how it was. Um Bow Dolly had 0:42:37.840 --> 0:42:40.839 Chester Simmons. That was like this road manager we recorded 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:44.400 in the middle of the second set. Jerome Green, the 0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:46.799 Morocco player, was the original guy when they played on 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:49.240 the streets in Chicago, so they didn't have to carry 0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:51.640 a drum. Was Bow, didley and guitar. And this guy 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:55.359 Jerome with Moroccas. He jumped off the stage and all 0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:59.399 these white kids started dancing around them. Twenty minutes later 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:03.280 cops came him in with German shepherds shut us down 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:09.480 and said, let them white kids dance with your niggas. 0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:12.040 He's I lock you jus up. No one will even 0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:14.719 nowhere to find you, you know after exactly right, And 0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:18.680 but we recorded enough to put out that album and 0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:24.280 it was stopped. Okay, back to the hotel, keep going hotel. 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:27.080 It's a good story. Then we went back to this 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:30.840 whole beach hotel, oh Wood once from that era. You know, 0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:33.480 we we were planning to go earlier. We shared rooms 0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:36.240 in those days. One was having separate rooms, me and Max, 0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:39.319 and then the next room was a honeymoon couple. And 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:40.799 he showed me out of your hold one of those 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:44.439 old time water glasses against the wall you could hear. 0:43:45.080 --> 0:43:48.160 So I had my experience of watching people, hearing people 0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:51.799 fuck for the first time on that trip, as well 0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:55.040 as being called a dirty jew nigger lover, you know, 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:59.200 excuse my language with the N word. Okay, But so 0:43:59.320 --> 0:44:04.560 your life anges with then what happened and and bo diddly, 0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:08.759 then what happened together? Did it? And what happened with 0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:11.480 the company and what happens with you? Then the company exploded, 0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:13.440 I mean, you know, we had money to produce. Morris 0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:17.720 signed more, expand more. They wanted to expand into LPs, 0:44:17.840 --> 0:44:22.160 into jazz all that, you know, little by little, UH 0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:27.719 we wanted to get into jazz. LP was really invented out. Um. 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:31.799 It started with uh Dave We We had this guy, 0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:34.880 Dave Usher was like a jazz fanatic friend of my 0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:38.400 uncle's from Detroit. He produced stuff. Then there was a 0:44:38.440 --> 0:44:40.840 famous magazine and chic call it called down Beat. The 0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:44.440 Jazz was the major jazz magazine. We hired the editor, 0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:48.120 Jack Tracy, figured he knew everyone, and that's how we started. 0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:51.000 And the blues are all, believe it or not. The 0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:54.440 blues were always recorded in the daytime, but we had 0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:58.040 the empty studio at night. So Jack, we would we 0:44:58.040 --> 0:45:00.279 we we would work it out. Everyone knew they could 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:03.960 pick up some extra cash after the gig at Chess 0:45:04.080 --> 0:45:06.760 and that's why we put out such great The first 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:10.920 role of Kirk Elvin, James Moody, Uh God, Dorothy Ashby 0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:15.279 and Jazz Harve I'm and Jamal Ramsey Lewis Wow because 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:17.759 it was relaxed, it was at night. A lot of 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:20.160 it was real jazz. They just wanted the money. They 0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:23.239 made it up. It was totally improvised a lot and 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:26.040 one of my early jobs was Mr. Samuel's. We were 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.000 we did union sessions. You got paid for a three 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.680 hour session. I was one of my because I got 0:45:32.680 --> 0:45:35.279 all the dirty jobs, getting coffee, going late early in 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:38.799 the six in the morning at the pressing plant. Um. 0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.360 I also had to go meet Mr Samuel's, the union 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.759 guy from when the checks were signed. They had to 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.840 make sure they signed the publishing and all that before 0:45:47.880 --> 0:45:51.279 they got the check. So I used to go at night. Yeah, 0:46:00.320 --> 0:46:04.440 let's talk about the business. You know, certainly Atlantic wasn't 0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:08.160 paying royalties. What was the royalty situation at Chess? It was? 0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:11.440 It was, it was no what was it? You know? 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:13.400 I always got to ask that because there's such a 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:16.439 lot of the you know, Chest ripped off artists. Every 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:20.200 the Indians ripped off some did um. And I don't 0:46:20.200 --> 0:46:24.960 believe my father ever overtly ripped off anyone because of 0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:28.439 the way he raised me. You know, I mean I 0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:31.279 I that's not even I was, you know, he just 0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:34.440 was never even part of it. I uh. But there 0:46:34.480 --> 0:46:38.319 were no entertainment lawyers that came later. We had a 0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:41.959 one page contract, publishing on one side, recording on the other, 0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:48.839 one piece of paper. Yeah, um um. We had no computers. 0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:52.440 Everything was manual, even order taking every you know, it's 0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:56.040 so confused now with modern technology. When I worked at Chess, 0:46:56.080 --> 0:46:58.640 everyone had one of those little pads with carbon paper. 0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:02.200 And the phone would ring in a thirteen hundred st Louis, 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:05.400 you just yelled your handing in the carbon paper. I 0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:09.680 saw my dad once. This is way after. This is later, 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:14.439 um in sixties six sixty five. I saw my dad 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:19.400 the only time once of reviewing the royalty statements with 0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:22.120 the bookkeeper and he would bring in this long you 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:28.080 know stacks, the white paper and the Dells blue option 0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:30.359 prepared a big hit then called, oh what a night. 0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:34.000 And he looked at the Dells. It was day was like, 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:37.760 you know, eighteen thousand bucks, I mean, you know, not millions. 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:40.680 And he looked at Muddies. Blass wasn't prove when blues 0:47:40.719 --> 0:47:44.239 were dead, Black people wanted motown, you know r and 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:47.279 b uh. We don't want our grandfather's music. And the 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:51.400 white jees hadn't discovered the historical ones, you know. Um anyway, 0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:53.200 and I looked at my dad, but I heard my 0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:55.359 dad looked and he held up money and he said 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:58.960 to Ted it was the big take five grand off 0:47:58.960 --> 0:48:02.799 of the thousand foot it on Muddy. That's my last 0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:06.440 story on royalties. That was my father. Okay, so you 0:48:06.600 --> 0:48:09.120 graduate from high school and then what happens with you? 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:12.240 I go to college and I become the chess promotion 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:17.760 man in Denver, Colorado. So you go to college in Denver. Yeah, 0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:19.600 I wanted to go to you know, I wanted to 0:48:19.600 --> 0:48:21.359 go to u C. L A. Or USC. I did 0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:24.960 not get accepted. I wanted the West Coast bad. I 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:28.719 love cars, I loved girls. I loved California. I've been there. 0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:32.840 New we had the first black record executive, Paul Gayton. 0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:36.640 Paul Gayton was from New Orleans. He was a famous 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:39.719 New Orleans band leader and he started out playing for 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:43.480 the most famous Italian mafioso in a horrorse and then 0:48:43.480 --> 0:48:46.879 he became a a big band leader, well known during 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:49.839 that era. And my dad and him hit it off 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:53.399 and he became our first guy in New Orleans when 0:48:53.440 --> 0:48:56.520 we did all this Clarence Frogman, Henry Ain't got no home, 0:48:56.920 --> 0:48:59.640 all our Cajun kind of music. But then he moved 0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:02.279 to Cali, Fornia with his wife and he drove a 0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:04.799 Rolls Royce. He lived on top of the hill with 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:08.120 icon Tina Turner's house, and he opened our little office, 0:49:08.120 --> 0:49:10.799 the chess office in l A. So I wanted to 0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:13.640 work with him, but I didn't get accepted. So After 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:17.560 two years at Denver, I applied to USC and got in, 0:49:17.719 --> 0:49:21.759 and I moved to Hollywood and my dad was having 0:49:21.760 --> 0:49:26.880 an affair with the hostess at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel. 0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:30.200 Wait Wait, Wait, Wait Wait was an apartment building behind 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:34.120 the ground Chinese Theater that was for hookers, and we 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:37.160 never knew that, and he she got me a department 0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:41.000 there had sparkle in the ceilings, and that's where I lived. 0:49:41.200 --> 0:49:45.479 H I lived behind the Chinese Theater for my first 0:49:45.560 --> 0:49:49.000 year of college at USC and worked out with Paul 0:49:49.080 --> 0:49:53.680 Gayton in the office. So did you graduate? No, I 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:56.000 didn't graduate. I never wanted to go to college. My 0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:57.920 dad didn't give his ship. He said, just go learn 0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:00.720 what you can for the business. I had a radio 0:50:00.760 --> 0:50:04.040 show at USC, and it took plastic engineering to learn 0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:09.480 about record pressing, marketing. Um. But I would have stayed. 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:11.200 But I never did it in a proper way. I 0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:13.200 would have probably had it gone five or six years, 0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:16.279 because I just took what interested me. We didn't care. 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:18.040 He didn't really care. I didn't have a push from 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:20.560 my mother or father about not like a modern way. 0:50:20.560 --> 0:50:23.239 I pushed my kids, you know, But I didn't have 0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:26.239 the push but then in my senior year, a fourth year, 0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:33.400 second year at USC, my dad got horribly beat up. Evidently, Uh, 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:35.840 the mafia tried to move in on Chess Records in 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:41.960 Chicago and m he refused and got out of it 0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:45.040 with help from Morris Levy. You know that is of 0:50:45.120 --> 0:50:49.359 course Roulette Records. Okay, well Morris. Anyway, they knew each other. 0:50:49.440 --> 0:50:51.480 We all all the indies were like part of the 0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:55.080 wild bunch, you know. Morris knew the Chicago mafia to 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:59.640 his guys. But they were upset that he got that 0:50:59.760 --> 0:51:02.640 they couldn't get a piece of chess. And two guys 0:51:02.680 --> 0:51:04.640 they called him up that there was a fire, and 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:06.799 he went down there at night and two guys he 0:51:06.880 --> 0:51:09.840 fought them with a heart condition and he was horribly 0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:11.719 beat up. He couldn't even go out of the house 0:51:11.719 --> 0:51:14.080 for weeks. His face was life came back, but they 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:16.680 called me and said he he lived, but he was 0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:19.520 horribly beat up. And I said, I'm coming home, and 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:21.440 I got in my car and I drove to Chicago 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:25.640 and started working in chess records. That was it. So 0:51:25.760 --> 0:51:27.839 that's how you dropped out of college when your father 0:51:27.920 --> 0:51:30.879 was good. Yeah, I wanted to go home. I didn't 0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:32.759 want to go to college anyway, but I like the lay. 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:35.200 I loved it. I love living there. I had a 0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:39.720 house eventually in Benedict Canyon. Um uh, you know, I 0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:41.520 I love working with Paul gat And that was a 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:44.959 fabulous experience, you know, working with him, like little Richard 0:51:45.000 --> 0:51:47.560 would come by the office, all kinds of he was. 0:51:48.280 --> 0:51:50.839 It was just he was just a brilliant guy. And 0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:52.840 I learned a lot about life from him. And he 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:55.759 was a brilliant musician. Um. And he used to come 0:51:55.760 --> 0:51:58.239 to our house, stay at our house, play the white 0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:02.000 Jewish grand piano and the suburbs and we'd all go around. 0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:04.520 I used to play. I started playing. He got me. 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:08.160 I was a trumpet player. That's a whole other musicians story. 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:14.400 Um can I can I go story? So I uh, 0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:17.840 I watched, I mean, kid, I watched From Here to Eternity, 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.440 you know that movie, of course? In this movie, of course, 0:52:20.800 --> 0:52:24.440 and when the guy played taps with a bugle, I 0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:28.799 got moved, emotionally moved, and I wanted to be do that. 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:32.560 And I joined the boy Scouts and I became a bugler. 0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:38.319 I was thirty fourteen, just turned fourteen, and my dad 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:40.799 thought the boy boy Scouts were whacked. I could tell 0:52:40.840 --> 0:52:43.080 he didn't like it. And he went to one thing 0:52:43.120 --> 0:52:46.399 with me there one father and something. It wasn't his thing. 0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:50.359 But so I learned how to play readily, and the chart, 0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:53.719 a few things, taps and now then I started in 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:56.440 high school. I was fourteen South Chard High School in Chicago, 0:52:56.760 --> 0:52:59.040 still living on the south Side before we moved to 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:03.839 the suburbs. Um and I began to take trumpet lessons. 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:05.840 I had a Martin trumpet. I used to walk on 0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:07.879 the rail I was just enamera. I joined the high 0:53:07.880 --> 0:53:10.719 school band. No before that was my eighth grade. I 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:13.560 used to walk on the railroad tracks. I practiced. I 0:53:13.600 --> 0:53:16.279 could play Lady of Spain. I adore you all these 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:19.520 oh my Papa, I could make you cry. Man. I 0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:22.920 could play it. I loved it, and uh then I 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:25.360 we I went my freshman year before he was the 0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:28.040 suburb south Shore High School. I joined the band. I 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:30.279 could read and read music. I learned how to read, 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:33.520 you know, not like the arranger. But I could play 0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:39.080 my little parts, and uh, I loved it. And uh. 0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:41.640 I was at Chess Records working in My father said, 0:53:41.719 --> 0:53:43.799 come on into the office. Is my uncle, my father 0:53:43.880 --> 0:53:48.960 and my grandfather ZD. And they all said, uh, you know, 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:53.000 we don't think you should become a musician. I said, 0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:57.720 what we're in the music business, Marshall is the worst. 0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:01.000 They get forty bucks a session. You'll never be able 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:04.919 to have a supportive family. It's a horrible They knew 0:54:04.960 --> 0:54:08.040 from you know, hiring guys. It's not a good thing. 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:13.240 We know that you love it. We think we think, 0:54:14.160 --> 0:54:16.399 you know, like it was like like a mafia that 0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:19.719 you should come in the record business. Come in the 0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:23.000 record business. That's your business. You'll be around music, you 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:26.239 can learn how to be a producer. And I of 0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:28.799 course said yes, you know totally. I mean that was 0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:32.359 like the committee, you know. I said, yes, I still 0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:36.520 have a trumpet, and I still so. Years later. I'm 0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:40.200 on a Rolling Stones tour nineteen seventy two. We it 0:54:40.360 --> 0:54:44.000 was a tour where we hired Stevie Wonders horn section 0:54:44.040 --> 0:54:49.080 called wonder Love, Steve Mateo on trumpet, Him Price on trumbone, 0:54:49.120 --> 0:54:52.960 Bobby Keys on saxophone. The Stones always had a couple 0:54:53.000 --> 0:54:55.480 of tune up runs and Steve Matteo had three or 0:54:55.520 --> 0:54:59.480 four horns, so I picked up one of his trumpet 0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:03.719 was a trumpet and I could still, you know, I 0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:06.239 could play an impressive riff one rift that up, but 0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:10.880 the jazz riff, and they looked up like, oh my god, Marshall. 0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:13.719 But you know, blah blah blah, come and join us. Well, 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:16.319 every horn section wants to be fatter, you know. It 0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:19.200 was adding another horn, you know. I said, man, you 0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:22.080 gotta I said, come on, you gotta teach me at 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:26.400 least the chords. And so they taught me some of 0:55:26.440 --> 0:55:32.080 the bullshit and the first night I went on and 0:55:32.120 --> 0:55:34.759 by the end, by the next morning, I couldn't touch 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:37.120 my lips. They were that bruise because it takes years 0:55:37.160 --> 0:55:40.840 to develop the callous and the pressure. Yeah, I could, 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:44.640 but I wanted to give me on stage. So it's 0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:47.080 online I played so that we were before a year 0:55:47.080 --> 0:55:49.600 ie we we've had an English gig. That was the 0:55:49.640 --> 0:55:53.120 next gig. It was in England, some Liverpool, some city, 0:55:53.120 --> 0:55:56.960 not London. I know it's online that they were. You 0:55:57.000 --> 0:55:59.160 could see where they talk about it and they have 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:02.839 my name is the player. And I ended up convincing 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:04.760 them that I would only come in for the last 0:56:04.800 --> 0:56:09.360 four songs and ended that concert tour ended with street 0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:14.760 fighting man. It was easy one note. Uh so I got. 0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:18.520 I played eight concerts on stage, the last four numbers 0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:22.920 with the Rolling Stones on the European tour and um, 0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:25.920 it was a tour where it was this was a 0:56:25.920 --> 0:56:30.920 fabulous lifetime experience. It was a tour where the promoter 0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:33.320 had to give us a bushel basket full of rose 0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:37.040 petals and mick which the horns were on the facing 0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:40.480 the stage. We're on the far left and the piano 0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:42.600 was on the far right. He would start with on 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:46.680 the far right, dancing towards the end, and he would 0:56:47.200 --> 0:56:50.280 throw rose petals on the piano, on each player, bill woman, 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:53.120 and everyone would cheer as he you know, did that 0:56:53.280 --> 0:56:56.240 walk across the stage. Well, the first time he came 0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:59.240 with thirty thousand people in front of the horn section, 0:56:59.280 --> 0:57:03.640 Alm was peted my parents. I never felt anything like that. 0:57:03.760 --> 0:57:08.640 The energy factor, it was unreal. It was in describable. 0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:11.759 I can't even describe it to you. When people say 0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:14.400 what is it, I said the closest thing. As a poet, 0:57:14.400 --> 0:57:16.560 I would say it was like a mother's love holding you. 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:20.360 It was a warm man. It was something special like 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:24.400 And that concert tour we had no encore so everyone 0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:27.080 walked after street fighting man. We all went with him. 0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:30.000 We walked into the van and it was dead quiet. 0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:31.840 While they were still cheering. We were on our way 0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:36.000 back to the hotel. So, uh, I got that amazing 0:57:36.040 --> 0:57:38.640 experience of feeling that energy, which is why I'm sure 0:57:38.640 --> 0:57:41.480 they're still out there doing it. You know, that is special. 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:44.840 You get addicted to that. That is way stronger than 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:48.080 anything I ever took. You get thirty people loving you. 0:57:48.080 --> 0:57:50.840 You know, they weren't loving me, they were loving Mick. 0:57:51.200 --> 0:57:53.800 But at the overflow, you know, he's standing in front 0:57:53.800 --> 0:57:57.320 of you. Boom. That was a fantastic thing. So that 0:57:57.440 --> 0:57:58.960 was a great experience. And that was the end of 0:57:59.000 --> 0:58:02.080 my trumpet playing, even though I still have it as 0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:05.480 a souvenir against the wall in its case, um My 0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:11.840 Martin trumpet. Okay, do you know why you're named Marshall? No? 0:58:13.000 --> 0:58:15.520 I do not. They thought it was an unusual name. 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:18.960 I'm not named after anyone. Nope. I didn't even like it. 0:58:20.720 --> 0:58:22.560 It was an unusual name when I was a kid. 0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:25.000 That's why I'm asking. Oh no, A lot of my 0:58:25.040 --> 0:58:27.320 girlfriend's mother that they keep a lot of the mothers 0:58:27.320 --> 0:58:29.760 that we call me Chess for some reason, it wasn't 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:33.160 a common name. I hated when they call me chess. Okay, 0:58:33.520 --> 0:58:36.240 r was my name. Your father gets beaten, beaten up. 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:39.720 You come back from the coast. You're in the business totally. 0:58:39.800 --> 0:58:42.120 Now what are you doing? Oh yeah, that's a good story. 0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:46.000 Good story, Bobby, I mean the story. I come to 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:51.120 work the famous building, historical landmark where the stones recorded 0:58:51.600 --> 0:58:53.680 before we moved to the big eight story building. I 0:58:53.720 --> 0:58:55.880 come to work. I got but that was suit and 0:58:56.000 --> 0:59:02.000 tie and pinky ring. Because the black artist they wanted you, 0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:04.760 they liked you if you they wanted what you had. 0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:07.400 So my dad bought a new Cadillac every year. We 0:59:07.400 --> 0:59:10.120 were dressed sharp. You know, they knew if you were 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:13.280 that successful, then they you could help them get that way, 0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:14.920 you know, that was the thing. So I was a 0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:18.000 sharp dress like the zz top sharp dressed man. I 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:21.400 had my custom made suits from Maxi the but the 0:59:21.520 --> 0:59:24.600 R and B. Taylor by bar Mr suit was custom 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:28.160 made light blue with blue stitching on the side. I 0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:31.240 was into that from from being around those sharp dressed people, 0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:33.600 you know, I mean the jazz guys. They were always 0:59:33.600 --> 0:59:36.360 the sharpest dressed people. They were like even now they 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:40.000 are you know they get they really control the fashion culture. 0:59:40.280 --> 0:59:42.600 I mean the ghetto, you know, from the ghetto seeds. 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:47.160 But yeah, so that's what happened, man. I So anyway, 0:59:47.240 --> 0:59:49.400 my dad then had the radio stations at the end 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:51.800 when you know we're in the car. We we had 0:59:52.480 --> 0:59:54.440 a car wash like the one in the movie The 0:59:54.560 --> 0:59:57.840 car Wash, and we it was two blocks in the 0:59:57.960 --> 1:00:00.520 na avenue and we had a deal. Do you could 1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:02.520 get it every day? Everyone could get a car wash 1:00:02.600 --> 1:00:04.760 every day. He just wentn't line and he paid a 1:00:04.800 --> 1:00:08.920 monthly feet whatever it was. Well, I I came from college. 1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:13.680 No one told me where to sit, No one told 1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:16.720 me what my job was, No one told me what 1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:21.680 I was making. I was very confused. So I got 1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:24.160 the courage and asked my father that. I said, Dad, 1:00:25.400 --> 1:00:28.960 you know i've been back a couple of months. I 1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:31.040 don't know where to go, what office to sit in, 1:00:31.080 --> 1:00:33.880 and I don't know what to do. Um what you know? 1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:37.000 What's up? And he said to me, and I can 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:42.360 remember this, you stupid motherfucker. Your job's watching me and 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:46.480 the subject he with the old European style, watch me, 1:00:46.640 --> 1:00:48.920 watch me a little by little, he would, do you 1:00:48.960 --> 1:00:50.800 have me do? This, help me do that, like going 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.960 to the studio. He taught me in that old European way, 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:56.520 little by little, little by litterly, let me screw up. 1:00:57.680 --> 1:00:59.720 I made my first deal with Pie Records. It was 1:00:59.760 --> 1:01:03.560 a a even. I screwed up the math. And when 1:01:04.040 --> 1:01:06.800 you'll never do it again, will you? Nope, never do 1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:09.080 it again? You know? That was how I was sort 1:01:09.120 --> 1:01:11.840 of raised. Um, I guess that's the way he learned. 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:15.240 So he just laid that on me. Um. Yeah. So 1:01:15.280 --> 1:01:17.680 then I started working and I started doing promotion. And 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:20.600 there was a famous record promotion guy. You may even 1:01:20.600 --> 1:01:22.600 have heard of him. I'm sure your listeners have named 1:01:22.600 --> 1:01:27.040 Howard Bednoe. He was the dean of record promotion probably 1:01:27.040 --> 1:01:30.040 in America, all the major labels, who was an indie 1:01:30.040 --> 1:01:33.680 promotion guy. But he worked also for all state record distributors, 1:01:33.680 --> 1:01:37.760 our distributor, Paul Glass, and I became hot for That's 1:01:37.760 --> 1:01:40.640 how I learned promotion. I was. He didn't drive, Howard 1:01:40.720 --> 1:01:44.320 never did. I was his driver and sidekick for a 1:01:44.320 --> 1:01:48.080 whole summer, you know, seeing all meeting all the disc jockeys, 1:01:48.160 --> 1:01:51.280 seeing how he did it, how he had a befriend them. 1:01:51.360 --> 1:01:54.480 And then we then in Chicago. Then w l S 1:01:54.600 --> 1:02:00.480 was the major States fifty clear channel AM radio. It 1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:03.400 wasn't you know, white pop radio. They were in this 1:02:03.480 --> 1:02:06.480 building underneath was the London House, so they hang out 1:02:06.560 --> 1:02:09.360 of record promotion. Man, where was the London House? And 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:11.640 we had our own little section. We'd always played liars 1:02:11.640 --> 1:02:14.560 poker and then the DJs from upstairs would come down 1:02:15.120 --> 1:02:17.360 and uh So for that whole year, I was eating 1:02:17.400 --> 1:02:19.920 steak four nights a week, just signed the bill at 1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:22.680 the London House, hanging out with all the record promotion 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:25.240 of all the labels. It was like a crowd, and 1:02:25.240 --> 1:02:27.960 they all accepted me. I was the youngest one. I 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:29.760 mean when I went to the first meet him, I 1:02:29.840 --> 1:02:32.240 was the youngest one. I was always the youngest one 1:02:33.280 --> 1:02:36.240 until young guys started getting into it. Chris Blackwell came 1:02:36.560 --> 1:02:38.960 to buy records from me before Island Records. He came 1:02:39.000 --> 1:02:41.840 to buy old singles that weren't hits that they were 1:02:41.880 --> 1:02:44.800 selling in England. That's how we started out. Chris, I've 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:46.840 met so his dad was married to a woman in 1:02:46.920 --> 1:02:49.320 Lake Forest. So I got to be friends with Chris 1:02:49.360 --> 1:02:51.800 when he before he started Island. All the first young 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:55.480 record guys, Mike and Richard Vernon Blue Horizon Record, seymour 1:02:55.560 --> 1:02:59.160 Stein who had just left Kinge Records. You know, um, 1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:02.160 there was this growing group of young guys. You know, 1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:04.919 I was going to I. I did go to Europe early. 1:03:05.040 --> 1:03:09.680 I I I aught well. I was always enamored with 1:03:09.800 --> 1:03:11.720 Europe and I wanted to go real badly. And I 1:03:11.840 --> 1:03:15.080 told that to my father and he, you know, he 1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:17.560 gave me a great experience, he said. I went twice 1:03:18.160 --> 1:03:21.640 to Europe and to Japan with Harry Goodman, my father's 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:24.920 publishing partner. But Harry Goodman was the original bass player 1:03:24.960 --> 1:03:28.600 of the Benny Goodman trio with Lionel Hampton Gene Krupa. 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:34.680 So that was my teacher of international kannak, eating hookers 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:40.439 and uh international record business. And I went around with him. 1:03:40.800 --> 1:03:43.080 And then it was one of the dean first of 1:03:43.160 --> 1:03:47.080 the great entertainment lawyers, a guy named Alan Arrow Orangstein 1:03:47.200 --> 1:03:49.280 Arrow and Silverman. They were one of the first that 1:03:49.400 --> 1:03:52.840 was our firm. I became close with Alan Arrow. I 1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:55.480 went to Japan with him. He showed me the far East. 1:03:55.560 --> 1:03:57.720 We went, you know, introduced me to a lot of people. 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:01.840 I had great tutors, and um, you know, I learned 1:04:01.880 --> 1:04:05.160 that and then I set up chess in Europe. Um 1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:08.280 and um I I said, I wanted a percentage of 1:04:08.480 --> 1:04:10.960 any extra we knew we were. We had one contract 1:04:10.960 --> 1:04:13.880 with London Decca for all of the world and when 1:04:13.920 --> 1:04:16.120 we were making nothing. You know, they knew nothing about 1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:18.760 rock and roll nothing. I mean the Stones were also 1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:21.920 started with them at that time. They really knew nothing 1:04:21.920 --> 1:04:25.480 about especially about black music. So Alan Arrow introduced me 1:04:25.520 --> 1:04:28.440 to Louis Benjamin. It later became Sir Louis from Pie 1:04:28.480 --> 1:04:31.800 Records that was owned by Lesson Loud, the Grades, the 1:04:31.880 --> 1:04:36.160 Carney people and from England. Um so I I uh, 1:04:37.000 --> 1:04:39.360 That's where I made my first international deal was with 1:04:39.440 --> 1:04:41.640 Louis Benjamin. That was the one that didn't make money. 1:04:41.800 --> 1:04:45.120 Louis offered to change it and I said, my dad said, no, 1:04:45.200 --> 1:04:48.160 you'll have to suffer, don't change it. Let him so I. 1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:50.600 After two years we redid it. But then I went 1:04:50.640 --> 1:04:53.200 around Europe by Eddie Barkley. You know that you ever 1:04:53.360 --> 1:04:57.560 Barkley Records and all Indies, the Durham the Minton Jin's, 1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:01.800 Turkish people in Italy, Uh, Eddie Barkley and the French 1:05:02.400 --> 1:05:05.600 um Doug hog list so on that Grandmophone, all the 1:05:05.600 --> 1:05:09.040 indies like Jess and they I was like, you know, man, 1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:11.400 I was like, you know, they loved me. I was 1:05:11.440 --> 1:05:14.200 like the indie, you know, I came from that INDI 1:05:14.400 --> 1:05:16.520 for one of the first I mean, they became my 1:05:16.600 --> 1:05:19.160 close friends. I used to go to Europe a lot um. 1:05:19.280 --> 1:05:21.880 We had great success. The first year we made a 1:05:21.920 --> 1:05:24.720 hundred and fifty ground and they were shipping green. That 1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:27.240 was like a half a million bucks back then. And 1:05:27.440 --> 1:05:30.560 it was in nineteen sixty four when the big statement 1:05:30.640 --> 1:05:33.480 came in and uh I bought Ah that was the 1:05:33.560 --> 1:05:35.560 year the stones came because I had just bought my 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:38.520 first car and payments hundred and eighties six dollars a month. 1:05:38.720 --> 1:05:41.280 But it was a red Porsche, the old kind, the 1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:44.280 little look like the little egg my dad. They thought 1:05:44.320 --> 1:05:46.520 it was the most ugly thing. They were coming from Cadillac. 1:05:47.240 --> 1:05:51.000 That was the ugliest car they ever saw, you know. Anyway, 1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:54.720 So yeah, so I had, you know, I was up 1:05:54.960 --> 1:05:58.000 getting custom made suits. I was on an ego trip 1:05:58.040 --> 1:06:01.720 that you wouldn't believe. I had success. I bought a 1:06:01.840 --> 1:06:05.440 single from Pie Records for three hundred pounds, sold a 1:06:05.520 --> 1:06:08.480 million pictures of Matt stick Man that status quo. I 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:10.400 was gonna ask you about that. So how did that 1:06:10.440 --> 1:06:13.640 come to be? Well, I wanted to have my I started, 1:06:13.840 --> 1:06:18.360 like I say, in nineteen sixty also like in nineteen 1:06:18.400 --> 1:06:21.560 sixty two or three. I couldn't believe it's online. I 1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:24.400 wanted my own record label, so I started. My dad 1:06:24.480 --> 1:06:28.200 said start one, and I started the label called mar Mars. 1:06:28.240 --> 1:06:30.600 My little sister Susie used to call me m A 1:06:30.840 --> 1:06:33.760 R m A R. Just the other day, I just said, 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:36.120 could that be online? I found a photo of the 1:06:36.240 --> 1:06:40.000 label and I so I bought a master from Louis Benjamin, 1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:43.360 another pie Master, the first one, for like three hundred pounds. 1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:46.520 That was the deal, non hits, and it was a 1:06:46.560 --> 1:06:50.240 guy named Nichols, Jimmy Nichols, who was the first drummer 1:06:50.280 --> 1:06:52.680 of the Beatles. It's actually on the label, says first 1:06:52.760 --> 1:06:56.360 drummer of the Beatles, Scott remember scat music, And I 1:06:56.400 --> 1:06:59.520 put it's probably those forty copies. I put out two 1:06:59.560 --> 1:07:03.760 singles on marmar and uh, you know then it didn't 1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:05.600 sell it. I couldn't do it. I had no promotion. 1:07:05.960 --> 1:07:07.640 But that was my first thing. And I did the 1:07:07.680 --> 1:07:10.680 Bau Diddaly and little by little, I you know, I 1:07:10.720 --> 1:07:14.120 started to to uh, but the status quo. I wanted 1:07:14.160 --> 1:07:16.360 my own label. Then of course I formed that labeled 1:07:16.360 --> 1:07:20.600 Cadet Concept before the status quo that was, that was 1:07:20.640 --> 1:07:23.120 my own that was why why was it? Why was 1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:28.160 it called Cadet Concept Because of this guy that worked there. 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:31.440 I loved him. His name was Dick La Palm. They 1:07:31.440 --> 1:07:34.280 were part of the Cadet renaming. Argo was the original 1:07:34.360 --> 1:07:37.280 jazz label. We had to give up the name Argo 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:40.520 because there was an English spoken word label name Argo. 1:07:40.720 --> 1:07:43.439 They sued us. We decided just to change the name. 1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:46.880 So we they came up with the name Cadet. I 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:50.000 never personally liked it at all, but they liked it 1:07:50.040 --> 1:07:52.600 because it was chess checker Cadet three season. The way 1:07:52.640 --> 1:07:56.400 it sounded so okay. So when I wanted my own label, 1:07:56.440 --> 1:07:58.680 they came up. Well, I said, what's it gonna be. 1:07:58.720 --> 1:08:01.040 It's gonna be my concept because it was the whole 1:08:01.600 --> 1:08:05.640 acid pod psychedelic thing. I was one of them that 1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:08.360 I was one of that. The exact age I went 1:08:08.400 --> 1:08:11.560 to Woodstock, I drove from Chicago. You know, I was 1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:15.160 one of those people who took acid and and pot. 1:08:15.240 --> 1:08:19.439 I was just enamored with it all and uh, anyway, 1:08:19.479 --> 1:08:21.479 that's how that happened. They said, well, you know, let's 1:08:21.520 --> 1:08:24.479 call it that concept. So I said, okay, we'll call 1:08:24.520 --> 1:08:26.439 it that concept. It was the easiest way to get 1:08:26.520 --> 1:08:29.599 my own. I went for it. I would have probably 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.040 not liked it, and that's how it started. I agreed 1:08:32.080 --> 1:08:34.400 to do it, and then I got Then I had 1:08:34.439 --> 1:08:38.080 we My daddy had hired these really a fabulous avant 1:08:38.080 --> 1:08:41.800 garde ad agency named Hervis Spinser in Churchill, one of 1:08:41.880 --> 1:08:45.120 the first young new ones in America. They were in Chicago. 1:08:45.280 --> 1:08:48.120 He had hired them for the radio station. And I 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:51.759 met this guy, Robin Binzer, who designed the Cadet concept label, 1:08:51.800 --> 1:08:55.120 and he came up with the name rotary connection. You 1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:57.840 know all those Okay, well one story at one time, 1:08:57.880 --> 1:08:59.840 because we're gonna get the many ripton. Well, it's all 1:09:00.000 --> 1:09:04.040 of that concept. Okay, wait, let's call connect concept. You 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:08.360 put out pictures of match stick Man. I bought that single. Okay, 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:11.200 did you hear it and say, hey, this is a hit, 1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:13.479 and and how did you make it a hit? I 1:09:13.520 --> 1:09:15.040 heard of that, I heard and I thought it was 1:09:15.040 --> 1:09:17.000 ahead of course, And how did you make it? A 1:09:17.080 --> 1:09:20.320 here a dis jacket that would do favors for me 1:09:20.320 --> 1:09:23.040 on that fifty thousand one station. Art Roberts broke that 1:09:23.400 --> 1:09:29.120 and rotary connection I learned from Howard Bednow. Okay, so 1:09:29.240 --> 1:09:31.080 I get it. I made him. Okay, I'll tell you 1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:34.760 how I got it. I made a movie in nine four, 1:09:34.920 --> 1:09:40.719 probably one of the first music videos. Two guys from 1:09:41.120 --> 1:09:44.720 Illinois Institute of Technology, I think came. I thought it 1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:47.880 was University Chicago, but it wasn't. They they were film 1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:49.879 majors and they said, we want to make and we 1:09:49.960 --> 1:09:53.360 make a film about something with Chess records we needed 1:09:53.400 --> 1:09:56.040 for our to graduate. Our thestis was a fifth Little 1:09:56.080 --> 1:09:58.760 George film. I wanted to be a film producer. I 1:09:58.760 --> 1:10:01.400 even had my own Safari equitor. You know. I was 1:10:01.439 --> 1:10:05.879 ready to be a producer. Yeah, I'll help you. So happened. 1:10:06.080 --> 1:10:08.600 I called him as that Bo Diddley is recording for 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:11.519 a week and attended, let's do it. So I made 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:14.360 this black and white film, Legend of Bo Diddley. You 1:10:14.360 --> 1:10:17.320 can see it yourself. I just put it up. I'm 1:10:17.320 --> 1:10:20.519 building a YouTube channel for my grandchildren, and it's on there. 1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:23.760 I actually fixed it, we repaired it. It's you know, 1:10:23.800 --> 1:10:27.280 it's not a good movie, but I gave a featured 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:30.479 pardon it to Art Roberts, that famous, that fabulous nighttime 1:10:30.520 --> 1:10:33.439 disc jockey. You know, he was my guy, you know, 1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:36.760 and um he were friends. But you know, and he 1:10:36.800 --> 1:10:39.080 broke that record in the rotary and you know he 1:10:39.439 --> 1:10:41.880 played you know, yeah, he could play what he wanted. 1:10:41.920 --> 1:10:44.280 I guess I don't remember the details. Before they had 1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:47.200 strict playlists, you know this, jackets could still have to 1:10:47.240 --> 1:10:50.439 have some freedom in those eras, that era. Then when 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:53.599 Paola came, they started with control paylists and all those 1:10:53.640 --> 1:10:56.240 things to stop it. But that's how that started. And 1:10:56.240 --> 1:11:02.679 then I got real lucky because I moved my office. 1:11:03.320 --> 1:11:05.960 I had this real op art office on the first 1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:08.640 floor of that eighth story building. Jeff Berry said. It 1:11:08.680 --> 1:11:10.760 was the best office you ever saw. I had like 1:11:10.840 --> 1:11:13.360 black and white hop art. It was wood panel. I 1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:16.720 had it painted black epoxy because I saw Eve San 1:11:16.840 --> 1:11:19.760 Laurent in Paris. His shop where I used to buy 1:11:19.760 --> 1:11:22.760 clothes was painted with orange epoxy, you know, before he 1:11:22.800 --> 1:11:26.160 became famous. So I did black epoxy. It was a 1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:29.040 way big speakers. Everyone would call me. After that, my 1:11:29.120 --> 1:11:31.040 dad left, we'd all smoke pot and listened to all 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:33.559 the music in there. That was my office. But then 1:11:33.600 --> 1:11:35.720 we moved. We moved to the eighth floor where we 1:11:35.800 --> 1:11:39.679 had We came up with a concept. We had the 1:11:39.720 --> 1:11:42.960 studio a this big studio studio be a medium size. 1:11:43.320 --> 1:11:47.320 Then I I built a small studio with very simple 1:11:47.360 --> 1:11:51.640 equipment for the musicians to work. And I hired a 1:11:53.800 --> 1:11:58.120 rhythm section, famous people Donnie Hathaway, Danny Danny Hathaway, Donnie 1:11:58.120 --> 1:12:02.200 Hathaway and piano still up to John Bace, Maurice White, 1:12:02.240 --> 1:12:05.040 the first way to fire on drums. Sometimes they come 1:12:05.080 --> 1:12:07.120 every day. Paid them like a hundred and fifty a week. 1:12:07.360 --> 1:12:10.880 The jam worked on tracks. We had four little rooms 1:12:10.880 --> 1:12:13.680 with upright pianos and real to real tape recorders for 1:12:13.800 --> 1:12:17.320 songwriters and they would work. We have a blackboard. I 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:20.200 put Eddie James coming in two weeks right songs. Then 1:12:20.200 --> 1:12:23.040 they would develop it with these musicians. We cut little tracks. 1:12:23.160 --> 1:12:26.559 They could work it. It was a creative, a creative factory. 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:28.680 And I moved up to the eighth floor. That was 1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:31.000 where I ended my career chest on the eighth floor. 1:12:31.080 --> 1:12:35.120 But I moved up to the eighth floor and one 1:12:35.160 --> 1:12:37.920 of my jobs then was to get lead sheets made. Now, 1:12:38.080 --> 1:12:40.760 lead sheets had to be if you wanted to copyright 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:42.920 you in those areas, you didn't send in a tape 1:12:42.960 --> 1:12:46.080 or CD. You actually had notated on a lead sheet 1:12:46.240 --> 1:12:48.640 that you had to send with notes and paper. And 1:12:48.720 --> 1:12:50.880 I would you know, we had people we hired to 1:12:51.120 --> 1:12:53.639 make lead sheets of the records that we put out 1:12:53.680 --> 1:12:57.080 so we could copyright them. So I heard about this guy, 1:12:57.320 --> 1:13:01.240 Charles Stepney Um and that he would do lead sheets, 1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:03.280 like for fifteen bucks a lead sheet, whatever we pay 1:13:03.400 --> 1:13:06.160 if done cheap, you know, fifteen was probably like forty 1:13:06.200 --> 1:13:11.000 bucks now for a sheet. And this short, chubby guy 1:13:11.000 --> 1:13:14.120 in a suit uncomp suit and Tide comes at the 1:13:14.160 --> 1:13:17.040 eighth floor. We also had a commissary with like a 1:13:17.080 --> 1:13:20.320 microwave and weird horrible junk food, so the musician everyone 1:13:20.320 --> 1:13:23.599 would stay up there this musician's coffee machine or whatever. 1:13:24.560 --> 1:13:27.000 And we're in the commissary. Me met this Charles. I 1:13:27.000 --> 1:13:29.240 made a deal with him for lead sheets, and he 1:13:29.320 --> 1:13:34.280 had this big portfolio, like a bit six inch thick folder. 1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:37.160 What's that? You know? It's a symphony everyt and I said, 1:13:37.200 --> 1:13:39.760 oh my god, you wrote a symphony. He said, I'm 1:13:39.800 --> 1:13:43.400 in my senior year of music school. I'm gonna graduate now. 1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:45.120 I had to write this. If you ever heard it, no, 1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:47.880 I played on the piano. I hear it in my head, 1:13:48.080 --> 1:13:50.360 you know, I said, well, you know, I've got this 1:13:50.479 --> 1:13:55.280 fucking wet. I got to know him over months making leecheets, 1:13:55.760 --> 1:13:57.680 and he would come and were talking. I've got this 1:13:57.760 --> 1:14:02.960 idea for an interracial group. Um, I got many Riperton 1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:05.320 here works through the Sydney and the other guy hanging around. 1:14:05.360 --> 1:14:08.360 I got this. I said that this is one of 1:14:08.400 --> 1:14:10.960 the sales guys. They had a band of Polish band 1:14:11.000 --> 1:14:14.599 in Chicago, white band. Um, I didn't forget that the 1:14:14.600 --> 1:14:16.559 other day. I remember their name for a minute, now 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:20.600 I forgot anyway up. So I combined them and I 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:22.160 told her, if it's this idea, I said, this is 1:14:22.240 --> 1:14:25.280 the psychedelic age. By then I had been taking LSD 1:14:25.479 --> 1:14:29.720 numerous times, but I wasn't ever into the Grateful Dead, uh. 1:14:30.040 --> 1:14:32.360 I was into the spiritual. I went to hear Tim Leary, 1:14:32.400 --> 1:14:34.960 Bob Dillian opened up for him or in white robes. 1:14:35.320 --> 1:14:38.920 I was into that because the first asset trip I 1:14:39.000 --> 1:14:42.519 took in the sixth you know, mid sixties, whenever that 1:14:42.720 --> 1:14:49.720 was was really the real deal. Sandals Laboratory from Switzerland. Um, 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:52.080 that's where I played the sraman on Good Vibe because 1:14:52.120 --> 1:14:54.160 I heard Good Vibrations on the Ascid of the Beach 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:57.360 Boys and they have that whoo. So I wanted to 1:14:57.360 --> 1:15:02.120 put that on the rotary. But so I talked told him, 1:15:02.120 --> 1:15:04.479 I said, you know, I think there's there's this whole 1:15:04.479 --> 1:15:10.320 alternative radio market. You know, Um, there's there's a lot 1:15:10.479 --> 1:15:14.960 happening now across the country. Um, I want to do 1:15:15.040 --> 1:15:17.400 this thing for people on a bad trip to calm 1:15:17.439 --> 1:15:24.040 him down. But you know, a soft psychedelic and uh again, Um, 1:15:23.840 --> 1:15:26.360 I'm using my dad's concept. If you get people around 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:29.800 you know their ship, you'll make your stuff better. Will 1:15:29.840 --> 1:15:32.240 you work with me? And he said, of course. It 1:15:32.320 --> 1:15:34.920 was this chance, you know I mean. And then I 1:15:34.960 --> 1:15:37.160 got Jean Bard, who was part of our house a 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:41.040 and our staff family, who had he came up from 1:15:41.080 --> 1:15:43.920 the South. He had one hit record called Country. He 1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:45.760 was agreed. He still is a great He's still like 1:15:45.800 --> 1:15:48.920 in his nineties. He still does gigs playing saxophony. He 1:15:49.000 --> 1:15:52.200 was a brilliant saxophonist. He's on a ton of Chess 1:15:52.240 --> 1:15:54.920 records and he was an actor. I made him part 1:15:54.920 --> 1:15:57.519 of my team, Charles, Stephanie, Marshall, Chess because they he 1:15:57.600 --> 1:15:59.800 was the guy who talked to the musicians, because I 1:16:00.520 --> 1:16:03.719 I had the concept, but I couldn't write the music. 1:16:03.800 --> 1:16:06.719 I couldn't do all those things. And I'll be honest, 1:16:06.760 --> 1:16:08.839 I never got it a hundred percent how I wanted, 1:16:09.240 --> 1:16:10.840 but I got it close enough. And then when if 1:16:10.840 --> 1:16:13.080 became a semi hit, of course you say, yeah, it 1:16:13.200 --> 1:16:16.880 was my thing. But you know, I had this great band. 1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:20.400 I put together the most avant garde group of black 1:16:20.479 --> 1:16:23.880 musicians in Chicago. Maurice White was ended up on earth 1:16:23.920 --> 1:16:27.679 Wind and Fire. Louis Sadderfield earth Wood and Fire. Drummer 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:31.160 was another Morris Jennings who played with Ramsey Lewis fill 1:16:31.280 --> 1:16:35.880 Up Church brilliant bassist and guitarists. Um, I put them 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:39.000 all together and uh we started rehearsing. I got the 1:16:39.000 --> 1:16:41.360 White band with many and then we started working. I 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:44.960 picked the songs, my concept I did. I picked that. 1:16:45.040 --> 1:16:48.720 I I picked the songs, and I kept pushing the concept, 1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:51.280 what how we were going to do it? And then 1:16:51.320 --> 1:16:54.040 we we recorded and I remember the first session. It 1:16:54.120 --> 1:16:56.280 was the first time Charles had ever heard his music, 1:16:56.720 --> 1:16:59.040 you know, played back that he had written. You know 1:16:59.080 --> 1:17:01.799 that he was sweat, you know, he was so worried. 1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:04.519 But we eventually we would. We started doing all the 1:17:04.560 --> 1:17:08.080 strings and horns from the Chicago Symphony, you know, we would, 1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:10.559 and he would. He he became a great arranger. He 1:17:10.640 --> 1:17:13.320 died young. He did all the earth, wind and fire. 1:17:13.960 --> 1:17:16.880 He would have been he was like Henry man Sin. 1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:19.240 He would ended up in Hollywood. He was a genius. 1:17:19.240 --> 1:17:22.160 He died very young, in his like late thirties of 1:17:22.280 --> 1:17:26.280 him forties. You know, he died young. But we made uh, 1:17:26.400 --> 1:17:28.679 you know, and I even helped him when I left Chess, 1:17:28.760 --> 1:17:31.080 I helped him make his agreement with the new people 1:17:31.120 --> 1:17:34.840 who own chest after it was so um. But he 1:17:34.840 --> 1:17:37.240 he was, He was amazing. He was a genius. He 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:39.759 was probably the best thing I ever brought the chess. 1:17:39.880 --> 1:17:44.200 If it would have stayed sixty nine, I don't know 1:17:44.240 --> 1:17:46.320 if you want to jump to ninety nine, but that 1:17:46.400 --> 1:17:49.160 was like probably the heaviest year of that period of 1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:54.000 my life. And it began in January. I was already 1:17:54.000 --> 1:17:57.639 on a high man I had, you know, I had 1:17:58.600 --> 1:18:02.280 things were good for me at Chess. Foreign royalties, shock, 1:18:02.320 --> 1:18:05.479 Berry Broken England. It was I was taking people to 1:18:05.960 --> 1:18:10.360 BBC TV shows Fontela Bass, Ready, Steady Go, like the 1:18:10.400 --> 1:18:13.759 first TV music show in the world was in England, 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:16.760 and um, you know all that was happening. But in 1:18:16.840 --> 1:18:20.640 sixty nine, that was a heavy year. It was. It 1:18:20.760 --> 1:18:24.519 started in January. I got a call from Seymour Stein 1:18:25.360 --> 1:18:27.720 and uh, Mike Vernon. They you know, we have a 1:18:27.720 --> 1:18:30.680 group called Fleetwood Mac. She just died. It's in the 1:18:30.760 --> 1:18:33.800 news now, Fleetwood Mac. But before her it was a 1:18:33.840 --> 1:18:36.960 blues man Fleetwood Mat. When they started, it was Mick 1:18:37.000 --> 1:18:39.880 Fleetwood on drums, but they had a fabulous guitarist named 1:18:39.880 --> 1:18:42.800 Peter Green really as good as Eric Clapton, as far 1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:47.040 as I's going, really good. Well, we're doing a tour 1:18:47.120 --> 1:18:50.040 that we're you know, we love the blues. We're touring America. 1:18:50.120 --> 1:18:53.000 It was our second tour. Will you help us do 1:18:53.080 --> 1:18:55.800 an album in Chicago? Can we come to the studio? Well, 1:18:55.800 --> 1:18:59.559 I'd already done the Stones in sixty four, so they knew, 1:18:59.760 --> 1:19:03.160 you know, they they it was known that I could 1:19:03.200 --> 1:19:04.599 do that. I mean I could have done that, so 1:19:04.640 --> 1:19:06.519 I did. I said, yeah, what do you want? We 1:19:06.560 --> 1:19:08.479 want you to get? Get me four or five chess 1:19:08.479 --> 1:19:11.479 players that we want Willie Dickson, we want so and 1:19:11.560 --> 1:19:15.320 so on piano. Um, I ort to span uh and 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:17.519 we'll play with him and we'll we want to record 1:19:17.600 --> 1:19:20.320 one day, full day, we'll be there. So they came 1:19:20.360 --> 1:19:24.479 to Chicago and we recorded eighteen hours double album called Fleetwood, 1:19:24.520 --> 1:19:27.519 Mac and Chicago. It's online. You could hear it on Spotify. 1:19:27.720 --> 1:19:30.880 And Uh, that's how my years started. In January, then 1:19:30.920 --> 1:19:33.880 I did another one, uh, Fathers and Sons with all 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:38.519 the white blues guys, Mike Bloomfield, Barry Goldberg, Samily and drums, 1:19:38.520 --> 1:19:41.680 Paul Butterfield and Brite and Harmonic. He. I did that 1:19:41.920 --> 1:19:46.960 live in Chicago studio. And this is all nine. I'm 1:19:46.960 --> 1:19:50.400 on a fucking I had the Rotary. I had Electric Mud, 1:19:50.439 --> 1:19:53.559 which was a chiant, the biggest blues album we ever had. 1:19:54.520 --> 1:19:57.160 And then I get a call from my father had 1:19:57.360 --> 1:19:59.599 a cell phone, not a cell phone, a mobile phone 1:19:59.720 --> 1:20:02.599 in the car and him my uncle called me from 1:20:02.640 --> 1:20:05.360 the radio station and say, you know you're we're gonna 1:20:05.400 --> 1:20:09.320 sell Chack. We're gonna sell Chess records. Um, don't worry, 1:20:09.360 --> 1:20:11.160 you can start your own label. You'll get part of 1:20:11.160 --> 1:20:15.720 the sale. Huh. And I was blown away. I mean, 1:20:15.800 --> 1:20:17.760 this was like I was. It was like mean the 1:20:17.800 --> 1:20:20.120 way I say, it's like raised for an Olympic event. 1:20:20.200 --> 1:20:23.000 They canceled the year before the Olympics. You know, after 1:20:23.040 --> 1:20:26.559 a lifetime. Oh my god, you know, I couldn't believe it. 1:20:27.040 --> 1:20:29.840 Don't worry, don't worry. It's we got this great off 1:20:29.880 --> 1:20:33.040 of the radio. My dad was enamored with radio. He 1:20:33.160 --> 1:20:35.880 knew that it was the dying days of white people 1:20:35.920 --> 1:20:39.519 owning a black business, even though we were converting to 1:20:39.680 --> 1:20:43.320 a full scale business. But he was already bored with it, 1:20:43.560 --> 1:20:47.040 and he loved radio. And he became a He became 1:20:47.160 --> 1:20:51.679 a humanitarian. I don't know what the word is, scholars ships. 1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:55.000 We give a thousand bags of food Christmas at the churches. 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:58.639 He gave back. He would tell me he gave back. 1:20:58.880 --> 1:21:02.200 He fell to the black community. You could hear. I 1:21:02.240 --> 1:21:04.360 could send you I have When he died, they did 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:07.799 an hour radio show, child let her Chest tribute. Everyone 1:21:07.920 --> 1:21:13.519 called in probably black. You could hear how they what 1:21:13.600 --> 1:21:15.840 he did. He gave the water for Martin Luther King 1:21:15.960 --> 1:21:19.280 for a march, you know, all kinds of stuff after. 1:21:19.680 --> 1:21:22.479 You know, maybe he was guilty. Maybe he did take barrel. 1:21:22.880 --> 1:21:24.600 I don't know. You never told me that, and I 1:21:24.640 --> 1:21:28.880 don't think he did in that evil way. He had 1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:32.719 his own he self made guys and self made businesses 1:21:32.720 --> 1:21:35.559 in their own beliefs of how it should be. You know, 1:21:36.120 --> 1:21:38.400 ship man, I paid him off. I'm doing all the work. 1:21:38.439 --> 1:21:41.200 You know, they got a modern recording contract has all 1:21:41.240 --> 1:21:45.479 that in it. Artists pay for promotion, videos, everything. He felt, 1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:47.960 why shouldn't they pay for a part of Paola. You know, 1:21:48.080 --> 1:21:50.760 he felt that he really believed it, but it wasn't 1:21:50.760 --> 1:21:53.760 in the contract. He just maybe I don't know what 1:21:53.800 --> 1:21:56.559 he did. I wasn't involved with the royalty and at all. 1:21:57.200 --> 1:21:59.240 I really wasn't. I didn't care about it. You know, 1:21:59.640 --> 1:22:04.320 we had bookkeeper, we had too good accountants. Um I 1:22:04.400 --> 1:22:07.519 left before was that was dever came. I never reached 1:22:07.560 --> 1:22:11.719 that stature. Um yes, I have the records on that concept. 1:22:11.760 --> 1:22:13.800 I made sure they, you know, that lived up to 1:22:13.800 --> 1:22:17.040 the contract, but I never got into the full scale. 1:22:17.120 --> 1:22:19.679 I don't know what went on. I didn't care about 1:22:19.680 --> 1:22:21.160 it then. You know, it was why I was having 1:22:21.200 --> 1:22:24.519 too much fun, you know, being a record man, making 1:22:24.560 --> 1:22:28.160 a lot of money, sports cars, Uh, marijuana was like 1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:30.600 blew my mind. It was like wearing sunglasses on a 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:33.519 clary day, you know, it was it was good. That 1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:35.680 was a good time. But then they called me and 1:22:35.720 --> 1:22:38.880 I was blown away. And then shortly after that, my 1:22:38.960 --> 1:22:41.400 dad dropped head driving the car fifty two years old 1:22:41.880 --> 1:22:44.719 from the radio station with her his public affairs director, 1:22:45.040 --> 1:22:49.559 Bernardine C. Washington. We had a public affairs director, black lady, 1:22:49.760 --> 1:22:53.600 very high class, high society black lady. In a way. 1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:57.799 They had that in Chicago. There's the whole cotillion people 1:22:57.800 --> 1:23:01.439 from Jet magazine, Ebony. There's like, uh kind of group. 1:23:02.800 --> 1:23:06.719 There wasn't that error anyway. Um anyway, that's what happened. 1:23:06.720 --> 1:23:09.759 So that that's that's was sixty nine was mind boggling. 1:23:10.479 --> 1:23:13.160 And then my dad died and my uncle wanted to leave. 1:23:13.720 --> 1:23:16.519 They they were glad to let him leave. They were 1:23:16.560 --> 1:23:18.080 they wanted to move. They knew they were going to 1:23:18.160 --> 1:23:20.679 close it up and moved to New York. They hired 1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:24.880 uh uh Land Levy at the time from Epic. You know, 1:23:25.040 --> 1:23:28.080 it was a major knew nothing about the Indies nothing. 1:23:28.479 --> 1:23:32.000 They were idiot people called g RT from Sunny Vale, California. 1:23:32.320 --> 1:23:34.880 They were still at the beginning of Silicon Valley. The 1:23:34.960 --> 1:23:38.280 reason they had all that money is when eight tracks 1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:42.120 and concettes first were invented, only two people manufactured them 1:23:42.120 --> 1:23:45.519 in the world, Ampex and g RT on the West Coast. 1:23:45.720 --> 1:23:47.880 Majors had to go to them, so they had all 1:23:47.920 --> 1:23:50.800 those millions of dollars, and both Ampics and g RT 1:23:51.360 --> 1:23:54.439 thought they needed content. So that's why they wanted to 1:23:54.479 --> 1:23:58.360 buy Chess. And it happened that Alan Arrow, the big 1:23:58.439 --> 1:24:01.840 music lawyer, was a lawyer for three m who made 1:24:01.880 --> 1:24:05.160 the tape and eight checks and cassettes. He put it, 1:24:05.240 --> 1:24:07.679 so he knew he put it together when they said 1:24:07.720 --> 1:24:11.400 they wanted content, and uh, it was a great deal, 1:24:11.520 --> 1:24:15.840 except the stock was seventeen and when I sold Mina 1:24:16.000 --> 1:24:19.600 was seven dollars or something. My mother never even sold hers. 1:24:19.880 --> 1:24:22.960 It collapsed, you know, because it was restricted stock. You 1:24:22.960 --> 1:24:25.640 couldn't sell it for two years or something then, so 1:24:25.760 --> 1:24:28.719 I ended up So it was, you know, a crazy time. 1:24:29.800 --> 1:24:33.559 I uh never got my money as I was supposed 1:24:33.600 --> 1:24:35.479 to get the million bucks I was supposed to get, 1:24:36.720 --> 1:24:38.840 and there was my dad had no will. Most of 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:41.560 the kid's money all went seventies percent or something to 1:24:41.680 --> 1:24:46.040 a state tax. But that's that's when I was you 1:24:46.040 --> 1:24:48.600 know and then this GRT they wanted. They were on 1:24:48.680 --> 1:24:51.400 the stock exchange. So they sent me to an American 1:24:51.439 --> 1:24:55.719 Management and Association meetings, to a school to learn about 1:24:55.760 --> 1:24:58.720 stock and how to make forecasts. That was the big thing. 1:24:58.960 --> 1:25:01.000 We never made a four said, just be made hits. 1:25:01.240 --> 1:25:04.519 Made another hit, not a forecast. I hated it. I 1:25:04.600 --> 1:25:07.799 hated it. I hated them. I hated everything at that period. 1:25:08.560 --> 1:25:13.320 And uh, I quit and I was I quit. I 1:25:13.360 --> 1:25:15.360 just couldn't. I just said, fuck it, I'm quitting. I 1:25:15.400 --> 1:25:17.320 didn't know what I wanted to do. I had a 1:25:17.320 --> 1:25:19.760 bad marriage. My first marriage was a disaster. I was 1:25:19.800 --> 1:25:23.920 still married. Everything collapsed the end of sixty nine, and 1:25:24.240 --> 1:25:27.719 that's what I got. The call from Bob Krasnow said, Man, 1:25:27.880 --> 1:25:30.200 I heard the Rolling Stones are getting rid of their 1:25:30.240 --> 1:25:34.519 manager Alan Klein and their label London Decca is over. 1:25:35.400 --> 1:25:37.639 I know of you and I joined together. We could 1:25:37.720 --> 1:25:40.320 let's get him man. He had blue thumb. I know 1:25:40.479 --> 1:25:43.360 you could help me get them. And I thought about it, 1:25:43.400 --> 1:25:45.280 and I told you. I called him up and I 1:25:45.320 --> 1:25:48.160 said we can't never work together. Come on, man, and 1:25:48.200 --> 1:25:49.800 he gave me a mixed number. And then a couple 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:51.680 of weeks later, I went to London, and that's how 1:25:51.720 --> 1:25:54.960 it all began. That's a whole other story about how 1:25:55.280 --> 1:25:57.559 my first meeting with the Rolling Stones and all that. 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:06.559 Tell that story now, and tell the story of Rolling 1:26:06.600 --> 1:26:11.200 Stones Records. I called Nick Jagger. I met him in Chicago. 1:26:11.280 --> 1:26:14.000 Well before you go, there was crass now mad that 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:17.040 you did it without him? Yeah? No, no, no, no, no, no, 1:26:17.200 --> 1:26:20.360 not at all. Man. We had taken mushroom steal and 1:26:20.400 --> 1:26:22.400 that that's what I'm trying to tell you. We were 1:26:22.439 --> 1:26:25.559 already out another level. You know. We love the honesty 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:30.400 more than madness. You know, he agreed we couldn't work together. 1:26:30.439 --> 1:26:32.640 He was an egomaniac to he became the president of 1:26:32.680 --> 1:26:36.720 elected whatever. Remember I loved them, Yeah, I loved them, man, 1:26:37.080 --> 1:26:39.519 you know, but we loved each other, you know, but 1:26:39.920 --> 1:26:42.400 we're you know, in that early thing. No, he wasn't mad, 1:26:42.920 --> 1:26:45.280 and who knew what was going to happen. So I 1:26:45.320 --> 1:26:47.160 did call. I had met Nick Jagger when he was 1:26:47.160 --> 1:26:49.839 in Chicago. But the one I bonded with was Brian Jones, 1:26:50.040 --> 1:26:53.200 the one who died. And I was gonna say that story. 1:26:53.200 --> 1:26:56.960 In ninety four, they were staying at this Chicago motel 1:26:57.160 --> 1:26:58.720 and they asked me to I want to come by 1:26:58.800 --> 1:27:00.800 and hang out. Well, they blew me away. Man, I've 1:27:00.800 --> 1:27:03.280 never seen people with long hair like that in person. 1:27:03.720 --> 1:27:06.559 They were drinking Jack Daniels out of the bottle. I 1:27:06.640 --> 1:27:10.080 was drinking screw drivers with girls you know, body or 1:27:10.080 --> 1:27:13.160 they were drinking it out of the bottle. Okay, Uh, 1:27:13.320 --> 1:27:16.120 they're going, I'll drive Brian. I took him around and 1:27:16.160 --> 1:27:18.799 introduced him. I gave him each records. I was already 1:27:18.800 --> 1:27:21.800 sending records to Mack and Keith. They would come when 1:27:21.800 --> 1:27:24.080 I was working in the shipping room. We had this 1:27:24.200 --> 1:27:28.240 weird connection. Man born in a similar year. I was 1:27:28.280 --> 1:27:30.240 connected to them. You know. I would send them. They 1:27:30.280 --> 1:27:35.200 couldn't send letters. So that's all making Keiths met because 1:27:35.200 --> 1:27:37.000 they had chess. One of one of them at Chess 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:39.439 records on the subway and then one saw the other 1:27:39.479 --> 1:27:43.360 and started talking. But but anyway, that's what they told me. 1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:47.920 So I said, you know, I called Mick River. I said, 1:27:47.920 --> 1:27:51.640 you know company has been soul and depressed. I heard, uh, 1:27:52.240 --> 1:27:55.400 you are also having a situation with your label. I 1:27:55.400 --> 1:27:58.439 think there's something we could do together. Oh Marshall, I 1:27:58.600 --> 1:28:01.080 loved I come to you call where to talk? To you, 1:28:01.120 --> 1:28:03.840 but I just had my passport held for having feather 1:28:03.920 --> 1:28:07.040 means in the London airport. Could you come to London? 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:09.040 I said, yeah, I'll come in the next two weeks. 1:28:09.439 --> 1:28:11.880 He had this great woman running his office and named 1:28:11.920 --> 1:28:16.280 Joe Bergman, an American, so she, you know, she knew 1:28:16.320 --> 1:28:18.719 I was coming. And two weeks later I went to London. 1:28:18.760 --> 1:28:21.519 I was familiar. I had been to London probably twenty 1:28:21.600 --> 1:28:23.800 times by then, you know, setting up the stuff, and 1:28:23.960 --> 1:28:26.280 I knew where to stay. And so I went to 1:28:26.320 --> 1:28:28.320 London and I called her up and I said, a 1:28:28.439 --> 1:28:32.639 Marshall Chess, I'm here. Had my meeting with Mack. She said, 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:36.320 well mix in Ireland writing and I rip flipped out 1:28:36.360 --> 1:28:39.120 what the means? And I he told me to come here. Well, 1:28:39.320 --> 1:28:41.559 I'll talk call them and tell him you're here. I 1:28:41.600 --> 1:28:45.360 was really upset, you know, My ego was upset, you know. 1:28:45.880 --> 1:28:48.000 But sure enough, two or three days later he came 1:28:48.120 --> 1:28:51.200 to London. We had our meeting and he said, come 1:28:51.240 --> 1:28:53.559 to my house on Cheney Walk. I don't know if 1:28:53.600 --> 1:28:57.439 you know London. Cheney Walk is fabulous. It's on the river, 1:28:57.760 --> 1:29:01.599 these beautiful brownstones. I to each house today is probably 1:29:01.600 --> 1:29:04.839 worth and her fifteen million. You know, he's gorgeous old 1:29:05.000 --> 1:29:09.240 right on the river though in Chelsea, so near the 1:29:09.320 --> 1:29:13.559 King's Road. So uh, I go to mixed house. I'm 1:29:13.600 --> 1:29:17.160 a little nervous, you know, I'm wearing but I'm wearing 1:29:17.200 --> 1:29:19.760 already my I've already switched from the suit and tight 1:29:19.920 --> 1:29:23.160 chest g O Levi, you know Levi's. I was in 1:29:23.240 --> 1:29:28.439 my more modern, you know, sixties gear and the Mick 1:29:28.479 --> 1:29:30.439 take took me up to his sitting room and blew 1:29:30.479 --> 1:29:35.560 me away. Man, I'm from Chicago, from the Midwest, uncultured. 1:29:36.000 --> 1:29:39.600 This guy at antiques or yell rugs. It was. I 1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:43.839 never paneled walls, you know. But he had this long table, 1:29:44.439 --> 1:29:47.960 the couch and this long table. And I immediately laughed 1:29:47.960 --> 1:29:51.800 because he treated LPs like me badly out in the cover, 1:29:52.360 --> 1:29:55.439 piled scratched, you know, he treated him badly as a 1:29:55.479 --> 1:29:58.040 record player. And he goes up to the table. I'm 1:29:58.080 --> 1:30:00.920 in the couch and he puts on Lift Engineer, which 1:30:00.960 --> 1:30:04.080 is a zydical from the Bayou, New Orleans. He puts 1:30:04.080 --> 1:30:06.880 on black Snake Blues and he comes in front of 1:30:06.920 --> 1:30:09.439 me and he starts doing that like a dance back 1:30:09.439 --> 1:30:12.360 and forth while we're talking, and I'm thinking, like, my 1:30:12.400 --> 1:30:15.560 father's this guy's nervous. Well, you know, I knew he was. 1:30:15.640 --> 1:30:17.640 He was nervous. You know. They looked at me like 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:19.800 if I was, you were a car dealer and I 1:30:19.840 --> 1:30:22.479 Henry ford Son came in. Come on, they got their 1:30:22.560 --> 1:30:25.640 name from Chess record from Rolling Stone, Muddy Waters, come on, 1:30:26.280 --> 1:30:28.240 you know they named you know, they named the track 1:30:28.280 --> 1:30:33.479 an Instrumentale twenty after our address. You know. So my 1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:36.200 relationship with them was a whole other kind of weirdness, 1:30:36.200 --> 1:30:40.360 you know, based on just whatever. Uh. But I was 1:30:40.400 --> 1:30:42.840 a real record man. Man. They were lucky motherfucker's to 1:30:42.920 --> 1:30:44.680 get me. It was. I was at the top of 1:30:44.720 --> 1:30:47.840 my game, you know, and and there weren't guys like 1:30:47.920 --> 1:30:51.000 me many around if any and I think they knew it. 1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:53.599 I was. So you know, my plan was to become 1:30:53.640 --> 1:30:56.080 the seventh or eighth Rolling Stone. You know, I had 1:30:56.120 --> 1:30:59.000 a whole and I wanted a label, you know. But anyway, 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:01.920 I said, well we can former label. We we like Atlantic, 1:31:02.000 --> 1:31:04.639 but we had offers from Columbia and all these other 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:08.800 epic They knew about Atlantic. They didn't know Ahmed then yet, 1:31:08.880 --> 1:31:11.400 they hadn't met Ahmed or anyone but they knew about 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:15.280 the music on Atlantic. They loved it. Um anyway, well, 1:31:15.320 --> 1:31:18.720 I went to mix, so he says, we's dances and okay, 1:31:19.040 --> 1:31:21.080 he said, why don't you go down there down the street. 1:31:21.160 --> 1:31:23.920 Keith lives right down the street, right on Cheney Walk. 1:31:24.120 --> 1:31:26.559 Go over to Keith and tonight you'll come with us 1:31:26.560 --> 1:31:29.760 to meet everyone and we have a rehearsal tonight. We 1:31:29.840 --> 1:31:32.519 have a rehearsal room in East London, the poorer section 1:31:32.560 --> 1:31:36.920 of London, their original probably rehearsal room. So I said, great. 1:31:37.320 --> 1:31:39.800 If I walked down, I knock on keys doors and 1:31:39.800 --> 1:31:43.519 he's got a some Italian like butler, older guy, you know, 1:31:44.200 --> 1:31:47.519 house man answers, oh keys upstairs. I go up to steps, 1:31:47.560 --> 1:31:50.679 same kind of house, walk up the steps and there's 1:31:50.800 --> 1:31:54.640 Keith with Graham Parsons, you know, the famous country rock guy. 1:31:54.760 --> 1:31:59.000 They're at this yellow or psychedelics sort of like the Beatles. 1:31:59.040 --> 1:32:02.559 Piano all yet wasn't it was a styway but painted weird. 1:32:02.880 --> 1:32:06.479 They they were playing together and singing, and I sit 1:32:06.560 --> 1:32:10.080 down and how Martha did they They commence about how 1:32:10.160 --> 1:32:12.680 I was dressed because they saw me from the key, 1:32:12.680 --> 1:32:15.080 had seen me in Chicago, sharp dressed man, you know, 1:32:15.280 --> 1:32:17.439 the suit to tie the whole thing. Then they had 1:32:17.439 --> 1:32:20.240 a joke about it. Anyway, I went with them that night. 1:32:20.240 --> 1:32:22.800 I was in the car and I'll tell you how 1:32:23.000 --> 1:32:28.160 naive I was. We're going to East London and uh, 1:32:28.200 --> 1:32:30.759 I see in every building there's a glow in the window, 1:32:30.880 --> 1:32:34.000 And I said, what's that fucking glow? Man? Don't you 1:32:34.080 --> 1:32:35.720 know what that is? A poor people who have to 1:32:35.720 --> 1:32:39.560 put money at to keep the heaters going tenpence, fivepence 1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:42.600 whatever in And all those glowes were heaters, and you know, 1:32:42.880 --> 1:32:45.960 in the living room was winter. So and we get 1:32:46.000 --> 1:32:47.839 to the rehearsal room and it's down in the basement 1:32:48.720 --> 1:32:50.760 and it's funky, but all they had drums that all 1:32:50.800 --> 1:32:53.200 set up, you know, to play and guess what's on 1:32:53.240 --> 1:32:57.200 the column? My Electric Mud album opened up with a big, 1:32:57.400 --> 1:33:00.120 you know pick of muddy and white rope. That is 1:33:00.200 --> 1:33:03.559 my omen this is the ship, you know. And I 1:33:03.600 --> 1:33:05.599 went back to Chicago and I told them a why 1:33:05.720 --> 1:33:10.200 I at the time, I was good friends with the winners. 1:33:10.720 --> 1:33:14.320 Rolling Stone was founded in San Francisco. I had met 1:33:14.360 --> 1:33:17.400 them on my alternative. You know, I needed for all 1:33:17.439 --> 1:33:20.800 my albums for that concept that was a great They 1:33:20.800 --> 1:33:24.960 were important. I remember if you subscribe to Rolling Stone, 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:28.360 you got a free copy Electric Mud. Okay, there you go, 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:31.360 you got it. So I even I think I spent 1:33:31.400 --> 1:33:33.680 one night on Jan's couch. You know, I knew him well. 1:33:33.760 --> 1:33:36.519 I loved them, you know, and we loved each other. 1:33:36.560 --> 1:33:38.840 We had They introduced me to Donny and Mitchell the 1:33:38.880 --> 1:33:42.440 first all the big alternative radio guys in San Francisco. 1:33:42.800 --> 1:33:45.600 I had driven around the country these alternative stations. You 1:33:45.640 --> 1:33:47.680 could come in with your album. They would like to 1:33:47.800 --> 1:33:50.120 joint and put your album on right on the air, 1:33:50.560 --> 1:33:53.679 you know, and sit around and played. It was great anyway. 1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:57.920 I U Jane and Joan Winner managed an artist called 1:33:57.960 --> 1:34:02.559 Boscags and Um. They had one album on Atlantic, which 1:34:02.640 --> 1:34:04.920 was a flop, and then the contract ended with one 1:34:04.960 --> 1:34:08.840 record deal. I said, I wanted this is before when 1:34:08.840 --> 1:34:11.400 I thought I was gonna start my own label. I said, 1:34:11.439 --> 1:34:14.800 I could, I want to. I want to sign bos He's. 1:34:15.120 --> 1:34:16.840 They took me to see him with his band in 1:34:16.880 --> 1:34:19.680 this little club. He was just great. We hit it 1:34:19.720 --> 1:34:23.519 off immediately and uh he he even drove me to 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:26.400 the airport. And because it was the psychedelic there was 1:34:26.880 --> 1:34:30.080 you probably remember your old enough. The Bible of the sixties. 1:34:30.120 --> 1:34:34.400 The first psychedelic was the Teachings of Don Juan Carlos Costaada. 1:34:36.240 --> 1:34:39.519 Boz Scags gave me the manuscript. He knew it from 1:34:39.560 --> 1:34:42.919 Berkeley when he got it. That's where the Carlos Costnada 1:34:43.000 --> 1:34:46.160 was the professor at Berkeley. He gave me the manuscript 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:48.479 of that book and we drive me and I dropped 1:34:48.479 --> 1:34:50.600 me at the airport. He was gonna do what the 1:34:50.640 --> 1:34:52.800 point is? Then I didn't get the money. Then all 1:34:52.840 --> 1:34:55.680 that collapsed. I knew I couldn't have a label, but 1:34:55.760 --> 1:34:58.680 I told the Stones that I had to know in 1:34:58.760 --> 1:35:01.960 two weeks because I I'll tell you, I'm embarrassed. They'll 1:35:01.960 --> 1:35:05.640 probably hear this. I told him that I had Texas millionaires. 1:35:05.720 --> 1:35:08.400 That's what I thought was a good line to give 1:35:08.520 --> 1:35:11.160 to back my label. And I was gonna have Boss 1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:13.400 Gaggs as an artist, but I would like to work 1:35:13.439 --> 1:35:15.639 with them. You gotta let me know in two weeks. 1:35:16.400 --> 1:35:18.360 And like I said, had this bad marriage. I was 1:35:18.400 --> 1:35:22.360 living in Lake Forest, Illinois and uh with my wife 1:35:22.360 --> 1:35:25.000 and on the believe it or not, on the fourteenth day, 1:35:25.000 --> 1:35:28.479 I got a weather a Yellow Western Union telegram saying 1:35:28.479 --> 1:35:30.920 we want to make a deal, come to London, and 1:35:31.000 --> 1:35:33.559 that's how it began. I came to London. I met 1:35:33.600 --> 1:35:36.680 Prince Rupert, the guy they had hired to handle their 1:35:36.720 --> 1:35:40.599 financial problems, and he didn't know nothing about the record business. 1:35:40.840 --> 1:35:44.160 I got them to hire Allan Arrow introduced Prince Rupert. 1:35:44.200 --> 1:35:46.160 He he owned, He was a partner in a merch 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:51.400 a private merchant bank called Leopold Josephin's Sons. So yeah, 1:35:51.439 --> 1:35:54.519 that's how how all that began. And then they never 1:35:54.560 --> 1:35:56.800 wanted the manager of the Rolling Stones that because they 1:35:56.800 --> 1:35:58.920 got burnt by Alan Kline. He owns to this day 1:35:59.080 --> 1:36:01.840 that they he's now, but they owned the masters and 1:36:01.880 --> 1:36:05.479 publishing of all those early great tunes. Um. And then 1:36:05.560 --> 1:36:07.720 years later we found that he had even that he 1:36:07.800 --> 1:36:11.639 was even he had the Stones lawyer on his payroll. 1:36:11.840 --> 1:36:16.240 It was all set up, you know. Anyway aside from that, um, 1:36:16.280 --> 1:36:19.400 you know, uh, we want they wanted to go forward, 1:36:19.760 --> 1:36:22.240 and we did and we made the deal with Atlantic. 1:36:22.360 --> 1:36:26.679 That was a fabulous experience because it was Ahmed er Agan, 1:36:26.760 --> 1:36:29.839 Mike Matt Mayor in the same building was their lawyer. 1:36:30.240 --> 1:36:33.160 And that was Atlantic was on Broadway before the w 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:37.040 e a you know, and I knew Ahmed. He was 1:36:37.080 --> 1:36:39.800 at my bar Mitzvah. I'm a you know they I 1:36:39.840 --> 1:36:42.879 had a star. I had Sam Phillis from San Ahmed. 1:36:43.280 --> 1:36:47.040 They were you know, he was there, Jerry Wexler, whom 1:36:47.040 --> 1:36:49.800 I never really liked, but I was filt. He was 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:53.040 an elitist to look down upon my parents and my uncle. 1:36:53.640 --> 1:36:56.599 He looked at them like they were peasants. Anyway, aside 1:36:56.600 --> 1:37:00.800 from that, um he so anyway, saw that went down. 1:37:00.880 --> 1:37:04.280 I I started with the stones. They sent me the telegram. 1:37:04.320 --> 1:37:07.840 I went. I met Prince Rupert. We we could close 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:10.720 the London Decade deal. I had to bring them all 1:37:10.760 --> 1:37:13.960 the tracks. Sir Edward lewis one of the inventors of Radar. 1:37:14.200 --> 1:37:16.800 He was the head of London Decca. I went with 1:37:17.040 --> 1:37:20.599 Patty Grafton Green. He was an assistant lawyer of Miss Stacey, 1:37:21.200 --> 1:37:23.280 the big guy he was like she was the dean 1:37:23.320 --> 1:37:27.120 of the lawyers in London. Patty Grafton Green is now 1:37:27.200 --> 1:37:29.880 one of the biggest entertainment lawyers in England. If you 1:37:29.960 --> 1:37:33.160 still if you still not retire. Um. We went to 1:37:33.200 --> 1:37:35.000 the meeting. We had to bring I had to bring 1:37:35.479 --> 1:37:38.280 because at the deal with London Decca was the Stones 1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:42.040 had to give them all the stuff recorded during while 1:37:42.080 --> 1:37:44.920 they were signed. So we went through all the tapes 1:37:44.960 --> 1:37:49.639 and got basically made a big reel of Grade B songs. 1:37:50.760 --> 1:37:52.920 But then Mick decided to stick it up their ass 1:37:52.920 --> 1:37:56.320 and he did that song called cock Sucker Blues. You know, 1:37:56.400 --> 1:37:58.320 I don't know can I sing the lyric on your show? 1:37:59.520 --> 1:38:02.200 Where could I? I'm a strangery? Where can I get 1:38:02.240 --> 1:38:05.000 my cock sucked? You know? Where can I get my 1:38:05.120 --> 1:38:08.840 ass fucked? I'm a stranger in town? That should be 1:38:08.880 --> 1:38:11.800 a gay anthem right now, you know? Anyway, aside from that, 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:16.080 um they when they heard that, they flipped all these 1:38:16.120 --> 1:38:18.960 stuffy Englishmen they played that. You know, that was a 1:38:18.960 --> 1:38:22.320 classic pardiographed in Green has told people he was shocked himself. 1:38:22.640 --> 1:38:25.920 He remembers I remember reading where he said he remembered 1:38:25.920 --> 1:38:28.840 walking across the bridge after that meeting and shocked. But 1:38:28.920 --> 1:38:31.240 that's how that ended. And then we made the deal 1:38:31.280 --> 1:38:33.639 with Atlantic and it was a great deal. I asked 1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:35.599 for a dollar. I was really I was very much, 1:38:36.800 --> 1:38:40.040 very much a key element in that first deal because 1:38:40.040 --> 1:38:41.800 I knew the record business more than any of them. 1:38:42.000 --> 1:38:45.120 Im I didn't know the record business. The big argument 1:38:45.160 --> 1:38:47.599 was I wanted the dollar an album and they said 1:38:47.640 --> 1:38:50.120 that was impossible because they lie. They didn't know. I 1:38:50.400 --> 1:38:53.040 letter I worked the press. They're gonna tell me I 1:38:53.080 --> 1:38:56.240 will cost to make a record, So I knew I 1:38:56.320 --> 1:38:58.559 won im and was sweating with his white ten dollar 1:38:58.960 --> 1:39:02.639 salta handkerchiefs on his ballhead. He was president and I 1:39:02.680 --> 1:39:04.800 was saying this, But we ended up getting a dollar 1:39:04.840 --> 1:39:09.080 an album and uh form Rolling Stones Records. Okay, before, 1:39:09.560 --> 1:39:12.799 just for one second, rumor is you took less money 1:39:12.880 --> 1:39:16.479 from Atlantic in advance to be in Atlantics. That true? No, 1:39:16.800 --> 1:39:20.599 not true, not in my mind. No. We never even 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:25.000 no negotiated any further with anyone. That was it. That 1:39:25.160 --> 1:39:28.360 was it in my mind. I mean, you know, maybe 1:39:28.640 --> 1:39:32.400 Prince Rupert got an offer from Depic and that, you know, 1:39:32.400 --> 1:39:35.080 maybe I forgot it and we decided to forget it. 1:39:36.160 --> 1:39:38.840 I wanted Atlantic because they were my friends. You know, 1:39:39.200 --> 1:39:41.080 they were an India. I could work with them. You know, 1:39:41.800 --> 1:39:43.400 I didn't want to go. I hate the majors that 1:39:43.439 --> 1:39:45.920 hate him to this day. You know, I don't hate them. 1:39:46.080 --> 1:39:48.920 I mean, I'm an Indie. I liked it. I don't 1:39:48.920 --> 1:39:52.559 like the board of people twenty opinions. I'm not like that. 1:39:52.640 --> 1:39:54.720 I still am not right now. I mean, you know, 1:39:55.240 --> 1:39:58.040 I'm a different So I never wanted to be involved 1:39:58.080 --> 1:40:01.360 with the Majors. Um. I just like the end and 1:40:01.840 --> 1:40:06.479 we were just a very warm, symbiotic, wonderful relationship. Okay, 1:40:06.560 --> 1:40:10.599 so the first record, The Stones put out a Sticky Fingers, 1:40:10.600 --> 1:40:13.160 which is bigger than anything that I worked I worked 1:40:13.160 --> 1:40:15.080 out before you had before it. Wait, wait, before you 1:40:15.120 --> 1:40:17.840 get there was part of your deal that you would 1:40:17.840 --> 1:40:22.160 put out records yourself or we were gonna have Rolling 1:40:22.160 --> 1:40:24.439 Stones Records, and I was gonna be able to I 1:40:24.560 --> 1:40:26.680 owned a part of Rolling Stones Records that we were 1:40:26.680 --> 1:40:29.439 gonna have other artists. We had even talked about putting 1:40:29.600 --> 1:40:33.960 giving Jimmy Jimmy Hendricks. He he was available outside of 1:40:34.000 --> 1:40:37.800 the US, and we talked about putting him, giving him 1:40:37.800 --> 1:40:40.800 his own logo like the Stones head and that, you know, 1:40:40.920 --> 1:40:43.639 he was so special. And then he died. I remember 1:40:43.640 --> 1:40:46.240 being in Rotterdown when we heard the news that he died. 1:40:47.320 --> 1:40:50.360 So that ended. But but then what happened is they 1:40:50.400 --> 1:40:54.880 realized they had no money, Dad Alan, they had nothing. 1:40:55.280 --> 1:40:58.479 They had these big corporate checkbooks in their minds They 1:40:58.479 --> 1:41:01.320 thought that may own those companies because they had these 1:41:01.360 --> 1:41:04.240 corporate chef which they could write checks. They owned their 1:41:04.280 --> 1:41:07.000 houses and cars, but they didn't own their own ship 1:41:07.160 --> 1:41:09.840 at all. And it ended up that they had no 1:41:09.920 --> 1:41:14.120 money even for a living. They were broke. So Prince Rupert, 1:41:14.479 --> 1:41:17.080 we had, you know, when we realized all that, they 1:41:17.120 --> 1:41:19.639 called me in and said, there can't be either artists 1:41:19.640 --> 1:41:22.800 on the label. There's no money and you have to this. 1:41:23.000 --> 1:41:25.439 We'll let you out. I had a contract. There was 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:29.439 a Mike Tannon, a great music lawyer. He was an 1:41:29.479 --> 1:41:32.640 assistant lawyer at the Arrow Ornstein firm and he was 1:41:32.680 --> 1:41:35.400 a lawyer learning, a young lawyer. He became my lawyer. 1:41:35.520 --> 1:41:38.559 Later he was Paul Simon lawyer. I mean he you know, 1:41:38.880 --> 1:41:43.600 he really worked. He became a big music lawyer. Um. 1:41:43.640 --> 1:41:46.040 But uh yeah, they said, we'll let you out of 1:41:46.080 --> 1:41:49.240 your contract. We can't have a label, but you could stay. 1:41:49.600 --> 1:41:52.120 You know you want to stay, you know with the 1:41:52.120 --> 1:41:53.720 Stones you could do what you could do, what you want. 1:41:53.880 --> 1:41:56.840 We'd love you to stay. And I said, I'm staying. 1:41:56.880 --> 1:41:59.120 That's rock and roll. I'm loving it, you know, I'm 1:41:59.479 --> 1:42:03.000 loving I'm about around the world and meeting famous artists 1:42:03.040 --> 1:42:07.000 and people I never even dreampt about authors artists. Uh. 1:42:07.040 --> 1:42:11.120 Their crowd was amazing for you know, sub Royalty Pipe, 1:42:11.360 --> 1:42:15.000 the Guinness kids, you know, oh they they they you know, 1:42:15.040 --> 1:42:20.000 they had a lot of starfuckers around them. Um anyway, 1:42:20.160 --> 1:42:22.760 uh yeah, So I decided to stay and I made 1:42:22.760 --> 1:42:25.479 that my life. Man, I made that my life. I 1:42:25.479 --> 1:42:27.599 I in my mind that was the seventh or eighth 1:42:27.720 --> 1:42:30.280 Rolling Stone. I went on the plane. I still lived 1:42:30.280 --> 1:42:33.280 at Key's house. I stayed with make it Mozart's house 1:42:33.280 --> 1:42:37.280 in the south of France. Um. I was like, you know, 1:42:37.640 --> 1:42:41.439 part of the family for those years. Uh. Then towards 1:42:41.439 --> 1:42:44.559 the end, drugs got involved, which you know, which sort 1:42:44.560 --> 1:42:47.960 of tell everything. And then I quit because I quit. 1:42:48.520 --> 1:42:51.640 I quit because the quitting story is just this, you know, 1:42:52.000 --> 1:42:54.559 I just it was time to change channels. I was 1:42:54.680 --> 1:42:59.879 very embarrassed about my drug problems, and my drug problems 1:42:59.880 --> 1:43:03.599 I can't and you know, years later I did. I 1:43:03.680 --> 1:43:06.280 was lucky enough to take when I was trying to 1:43:06.360 --> 1:43:08.920 kick all the drugs. I ended up getting turned onto 1:43:08.920 --> 1:43:12.599 one of the fathers of LSD psychotherapy, which is now 1:43:12.680 --> 1:43:17.040 in vogue. Um. And he saw me a year before 1:43:17.120 --> 1:43:19.599 he took acid with me. He took it with me 1:43:20.240 --> 1:43:22.200 and Harry hermone You could look him up. There's a 1:43:22.200 --> 1:43:26.559 couple of things online. Dr hermone Um. He said, I'll 1:43:26.640 --> 1:43:29.240 lead you to why you like that ship? It was 1:43:29.280 --> 1:43:33.160 all because he sold the company. Oh my god. I 1:43:33.200 --> 1:43:35.720 mean I had all that subconscious, deep pain, you know, 1:43:36.320 --> 1:43:39.760 because he took away my legacy, took it away. You know. 1:43:40.479 --> 1:43:42.679 I went back to that meeting being the record businesses 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:45.200 as years and this called me up and saying we're 1:43:45.200 --> 1:43:48.919 selling it, you know that. But something that really affected 1:43:48.960 --> 1:43:51.880 me in a horrible pain, in a deep well of pain. 1:43:52.520 --> 1:43:56.040 But once I realized that that's what why I like drugs, 1:43:56.120 --> 1:43:59.600 that was the pain I was killing, I dumped it instantly. 1:44:00.320 --> 1:44:02.360 It was very good. That was a great I mean 1:44:03.000 --> 1:44:06.639 it was shocking how once you realize the seed of something, 1:44:07.240 --> 1:44:11.080 how it becomes irrelevant, you know. But yeah, so that 1:44:11.080 --> 1:44:14.400 that that I left the Stones mainly because I I would. 1:44:14.680 --> 1:44:16.519 I didn't like myself. I didn't talk to my uncle 1:44:16.800 --> 1:44:20.320 for three years. I was embarrassed, you know, I was embarrassed. 1:44:20.600 --> 1:44:22.439 You know, it was not my you know what I 1:44:22.520 --> 1:44:25.600 went and it was bad. I was killing pain that 1:44:25.640 --> 1:44:28.519 didn't even know what it was. And uh so that ended. 1:44:28.520 --> 1:44:29.840 And then I, you know, I went out with arc 1:44:29.960 --> 1:44:32.759 music in my life and all kinds of other new things. 1:44:33.120 --> 1:44:34.880 But that was a great I would do it again, 1:44:34.920 --> 1:44:37.560 even with the drugs. That was great, a great experience. 1:44:37.600 --> 1:44:39.680 The Stones have nothing to do. The only thing the 1:44:39.760 --> 1:44:43.679 Stones did was uh because the drugs were around everyone. 1:44:43.880 --> 1:44:48.000 Every record executive was collapsing with cocaine, are you kidding? 1:44:48.160 --> 1:44:51.120 I went to fifty dinners with guys, would go to 1:44:51.200 --> 1:44:53.040 the bathroom, know when we'd eat the food to to 1:44:53.200 --> 1:44:55.599 you know, if you still you know. So it wasn't 1:44:55.640 --> 1:44:58.960 just me, you know, but U being around the Stones 1:44:59.000 --> 1:45:01.920 and all the group He's constantly bringing you know. And 1:45:01.960 --> 1:45:04.320 then I lived with Keith. But I have no blaming 1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:07.640 them what's or ever? You know, in a way, in 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:09.639 a way I have. In fact, I don't even regret 1:45:09.880 --> 1:45:13.840 my drug period. I grew in it because I beat it, 1:45:14.200 --> 1:45:16.439 you know. So it's like climbing mountain evers that changes 1:45:16.479 --> 1:45:21.000 you too, you know. Um yeah, I don't regret it. 1:45:21.080 --> 1:45:24.320 Um was it was a waste, but I managed to 1:45:24.360 --> 1:45:27.439 have all number one records, you know, and uh, okay, 1:45:27.479 --> 1:45:30.280 so the first record is Sticky Fingers, which is certainly 1:45:30.280 --> 1:45:34.200 a great record. To what degree were a record? To 1:45:34.240 --> 1:45:37.400 what degree were you involved in that when you and 1:45:37.479 --> 1:45:41.840 to what degree were you responsible for the success? I 1:45:41.920 --> 1:45:43.800 think I was, but you know who knows it's my 1:45:43.840 --> 1:45:50.000 own ego. Probably yeah, I was totally one and two 1:45:50.920 --> 1:45:54.160 involved with that record. It's my first taste of takeout 1:45:54.200 --> 1:45:58.559 Indians though the Olympic Studios Glynn John's um No, it 1:45:58.640 --> 1:46:00.960 was a great record. In fact that later recently, after 1:46:01.040 --> 1:46:04.040 forty nine years in my car, for the last two years, 1:46:04.080 --> 1:46:06.599 I've already been playing music. I go in my car 1:46:06.640 --> 1:46:09.680 for rides in the mountains. I only play what I, 1:46:09.920 --> 1:46:12.240 my family or me have been associated with for two 1:46:12.320 --> 1:46:15.960 years straight, only for memories. It's shocking when I played 1:46:16.000 --> 1:46:19.960 the Stone but started with it was the sixtieth anniversary 1:46:19.960 --> 1:46:23.679 of Exile on Main Street and BBC did a big, 1:46:23.720 --> 1:46:26.160 you know, production show on it. They called me up. 1:46:26.160 --> 1:46:28.640 They said, well, there's already a handful of guys that 1:46:28.680 --> 1:46:31.960 were alive now that we're around that you know um 1:46:32.080 --> 1:46:33.960 And I said, well, I haven't played the fucker in 1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:37.240 forty nine years. So I had I had a brand 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:40.200 new vinyl coffee and I still love the speakers in 1:46:40.280 --> 1:46:43.400 my living room now that I auditioned that album for 1:46:43.760 --> 1:46:46.280 in l A at my house on San Marco Drive. 1:46:46.640 --> 1:46:49.800 They were Stevie Wonders speakers that I had rented from 1:46:50.120 --> 1:46:53.160 Westlake Studio because he had returned them because his new 1:46:53.200 --> 1:46:55.360 girlfriend didn't like the way they looked in his house. 1:46:55.880 --> 1:46:58.400 So I had rented them for this promo party, and 1:46:58.439 --> 1:47:00.719 I dragged. I still have my ended up by him. 1:47:00.760 --> 1:47:03.679 But I got in my living room and I blasted Exile, 1:47:03.840 --> 1:47:06.720 and I was shocked. I wanted to call Keith. I'm 1:47:06.720 --> 1:47:10.559 gonna still talk to him about it because it's brilliant. 1:47:10.560 --> 1:47:12.680 I'm just so thrilled that I was even involved in 1:47:12.680 --> 1:47:15.680 Sticky Fingers and Exile. Those are brilliant records, you know. 1:47:16.320 --> 1:47:19.120 And I ended up driving around getting you know, eighty 1:47:19.160 --> 1:47:21.280 miles an hour in my car, blessing them, you know. 1:47:21.960 --> 1:47:24.120 But I hadn't played him in almost fifty years and 1:47:24.160 --> 1:47:27.400 they held up great, you know. Um. But yeah, I 1:47:27.439 --> 1:47:30.599 was totally involved with Atlantic with the cover, you know, 1:47:30.880 --> 1:47:34.200 getting that zipper cover made. It was highly complex. Luckily, 1:47:34.200 --> 1:47:37.240 one of my best friends who sold me album Stickers 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:40.120 in Chicago was a guy named Craig Braun who was 1:47:40.160 --> 1:47:43.439 the father of the custom album cover, the Andy Warhol 1:47:43.439 --> 1:47:47.599 Banana Cheaching, Cheaching, Chong, Big Bamboo, all those custom covers. 1:47:48.120 --> 1:47:51.439 So it was craigging another competitor. They were, you know. 1:47:51.800 --> 1:47:53.880 Next we gave it to Craig for me. I asked 1:47:53.920 --> 1:47:56.559 next week. I told him Craig was a friend of mine, 1:47:57.040 --> 1:47:59.439 you gotta give it to him. He did, and we 1:47:59.479 --> 1:48:00.800 had We had a lot of trouble. We had to 1:48:00.800 --> 1:48:03.599 get garment district people to put the zipper in. Then 1:48:03.680 --> 1:48:09.040 we did test shipments and the zipper, the zipper and 1:48:09.360 --> 1:48:12.599 up was causing a hitting the groove. Then we had 1:48:12.600 --> 1:48:14.680 to get all the on zippers unzipped so would be 1:48:14.720 --> 1:48:18.040 on the label parn. It was complex and we paid. 1:48:18.080 --> 1:48:21.160 I paid Andy Warrel five thousand bucks for that design, 1:48:21.720 --> 1:48:24.080 but we had a convert it to make it, you know, 1:48:24.840 --> 1:48:26.960 and Mike introduced me to Andy. Those are the kind 1:48:26.960 --> 1:48:30.639 of people I was meeting man, Andy Warhol, Man Ray 1:48:30.720 --> 1:48:33.320 in Paris, you know, all for album covers. He's famous. 1:48:33.600 --> 1:48:37.519 They all wanted to do stones covers. Hitler's filmmaker Lenny 1:48:37.640 --> 1:48:42.800 Russian stock She I went to talk to her. Yeah, 1:48:43.000 --> 1:48:46.120 so you know that I was involved with the making 1:48:46.120 --> 1:48:48.400 of the album. Then with the logo of the tongue 1:48:48.400 --> 1:48:51.280 and lips. Yeah, all that, that was all the beginning. 1:48:51.320 --> 1:48:54.320 That was I was. I lived it. It was twenty 1:48:54.400 --> 1:48:59.000 four hours a day. I and uh, I you know 1:48:59.080 --> 1:49:01.840 I was. That was my I looked at myself then 1:49:02.400 --> 1:49:05.280 as a rolling stone and that was my job. That 1:49:05.360 --> 1:49:10.080 was my instrument. I wanted to be as good as them. Huh. 1:49:10.439 --> 1:49:13.479 The big victory lap was the seventy two tour. There 1:49:13.560 --> 1:49:17.320 was unbelievable publicity. What do you remember about that other 1:49:17.360 --> 1:49:21.000 than playing with Stevie Wonder, etcetera. It was great. It 1:49:21.080 --> 1:49:25.080 was remember the birthday mixed birthday with Stevie Wonder. I 1:49:25.080 --> 1:49:28.880 I set that up because again you know again it's 1:49:29.240 --> 1:49:32.960 it's my ego. But Youret Abner was the president of Motown. 1:49:33.000 --> 1:49:35.559 You know who that is? You were? He was the president. 1:49:35.960 --> 1:49:38.360 He was the president of VEJ. I knw him from Chicago. 1:49:38.600 --> 1:49:42.120 He was another one of those high society Chicago black people. 1:49:42.880 --> 1:49:45.080 And but we were good friends. We used to go 1:49:45.120 --> 1:49:47.920 to Bat's Jewish restaurant, meet there all the time, once 1:49:48.000 --> 1:49:50.280 or twice a week when he was at VJ. But 1:49:50.280 --> 1:49:54.080 he lost VJ Las Vegas shooting craps. You know, I 1:49:54.360 --> 1:49:56.840 knew him well. He was when I got picked up 1:49:56.840 --> 1:49:58.880 the award of the Rocketroll Hall of Fame, my father, 1:49:58.960 --> 1:50:00.920 he was the presenter. I asked for him to be 1:50:00.960 --> 1:50:03.280 the prisoner. He was a good friend. But I went 1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:06.320 to him. I said, let's do a double fucking album. 1:50:06.760 --> 1:50:09.559 Get Stevie on the tour. He's never been exposed to 1:50:09.640 --> 1:50:12.960 the Stones audience, and we'll do a double album. And 1:50:13.000 --> 1:50:15.120 I made a deal to do it, and we did, 1:50:15.160 --> 1:50:18.240 and it fell through at the very end. They backed out. 1:50:18.280 --> 1:50:20.479 Atlantic couldn't do it. It was it was gonna be 1:50:20.479 --> 1:50:23.080 a double albument. It was in production and ready you know. 1:50:23.880 --> 1:50:26.720 Uh and that never happened. But uh, yeah, so that 1:50:26.840 --> 1:50:29.120 you know, so that that was a great tour the whole. 1:50:29.680 --> 1:50:34.640 It was just so exciting that on that tour you 1:50:34.760 --> 1:50:39.000 had Jackie o' nascius's sister, you had Truman Capponi. Oh, 1:50:39.240 --> 1:50:42.719 Truman Capponi, who hated me. He said I had fat 1:50:42.800 --> 1:50:48.320 Jewish thighs. He hated me because where where did he write? Where? What? 1:50:48.320 --> 1:50:51.479 What stay? Was in Oklahoma or Kansas? Where that was? 1:50:51.640 --> 1:50:56.040 You know, Kansas, Kansas. Yeah, so when we played in Kansas, 1:50:56.120 --> 1:50:58.800 he was there, of course, and he wanted to come 1:50:59.280 --> 1:51:02.800 right on the edge of the stage and I stopped him, 1:51:02.840 --> 1:51:06.479 and he hated me for that, and then I'm that 1:51:06.640 --> 1:51:10.240 tour he came. He came to New Orleans and Keith 1:51:10.400 --> 1:51:13.280 Richards and Bobby Keys Pete all over his hotel room, 1:51:13.439 --> 1:51:15.240 so he stepped on it when he opened his door. 1:51:16.080 --> 1:51:18.840 He was in love with Bobby Keys. He wanted that. 1:51:19.000 --> 1:51:21.280 You know, I remember we're all in the same hotel 1:51:21.280 --> 1:51:27.480 in New Orleans. Yeah, Truman, Campodi, Peter Beard with the photographer. UM, 1:51:27.640 --> 1:51:32.880 so many people. Uh you know the thing about uh 1:51:32.920 --> 1:51:35.960 you know I got I would get to get tickets 1:51:36.000 --> 1:51:38.559 I got so they bullshit you. Those people I got 1:51:38.600 --> 1:51:43.120 invited once to um it wasn't Jackie Ones? Is their sister? 1:51:43.200 --> 1:51:46.920 What was her name? Lee? Yeah, she was married to 1:51:46.920 --> 1:51:50.280 Peter Beard, the photographer, and I had gone to see 1:51:50.360 --> 1:51:53.519 him about covers. He was in Africa then shooting elephants 1:51:53.600 --> 1:51:57.040 and girafts and uh so I got a call from 1:51:57.160 --> 1:52:00.759 Archy said we're having a party of cock tail party. 1:52:00.920 --> 1:52:03.080 Do you want to come by? I said, oh, my god, 1:52:03.120 --> 1:52:05.680 who's gonna be there? And then she said, oh, by 1:52:05.720 --> 1:52:09.599 the way, we get backstage passes. You know, that's how 1:52:09.640 --> 1:52:12.720 they operate so I got invited to the party, but 1:52:12.760 --> 1:52:15.680 I had to get them passes. That whole crowd, you know, 1:52:16.479 --> 1:52:18.880 and so what have you know? That's we were. We 1:52:18.920 --> 1:52:23.720 wrote a song about them, starfuckers, that they're about them. 1:52:23.760 --> 1:52:25.720 We had too we they don't even know. We had 1:52:25.760 --> 1:52:28.519 two dressing rooms. We had one for the starfuckers who 1:52:28.560 --> 1:52:32.400 thought they were in the backstage, and another hidden one 1:52:32.520 --> 1:52:41.400 where the real friends hung out. What happened to the 1:52:41.439 --> 1:52:48.120 movie Cocksucker Blues? What happened? It got? Well, oh no, 1:52:48.400 --> 1:52:50.640 that's a whole this could be another whole show for you. 1:52:51.360 --> 1:52:55.320 So the Stones introduced me. Mick and Keith say, had 1:52:55.360 --> 1:52:58.760 I ever seen a book called The Americans? No fucking way, 1:52:58.760 --> 1:53:02.759 am and you from Chicago. I'm not looking at photography books. 1:53:03.600 --> 1:53:06.280 What's the Americans? They pulled it, they showed me. I 1:53:06.280 --> 1:53:09.320 think it was Keith who showed me. It's a it's 1:53:09.439 --> 1:53:12.320 Robert Frank on the glowing with Jack carolluact the famous 1:53:12.360 --> 1:53:14.920 beating Nick and it's a it's on the road his 1:53:15.000 --> 1:53:18.320 famous book. And Robert Frank travels with him and comes 1:53:18.360 --> 1:53:21.320 out with a code book called the Americans, which are 1:53:21.320 --> 1:53:26.200 all black and white. So he says, uh, we why 1:53:26.200 --> 1:53:28.559 don't we get Robert Frank to do the cover the 1:53:28.600 --> 1:53:32.280 Exile and Main Street cover. Um, it would be great, 1:53:32.280 --> 1:53:34.479 look at it, look at his photographs, you know. So 1:53:34.520 --> 1:53:36.720 I tracked down Robert Frank in New York and the 1:53:36.760 --> 1:53:41.439 bower He lived Bowery, Remember, well, he wasn't amazed. He 1:53:41.200 --> 1:53:43.479 was he was one of them. He was probably one 1:53:43.520 --> 1:53:46.599 of the most major factors in my own consciousness in life. 1:53:47.080 --> 1:53:50.599 We became very close friends. Another Jewish guy a little 1:53:50.640 --> 1:53:53.439 older than me. His father was applying Steeler in Zurich 1:53:53.560 --> 1:53:57.840 or something, you know, Jewish Applian Steeler. He was a 1:53:57.880 --> 1:54:02.799 beat nick and he shot the cover with He didn't 1:54:02.880 --> 1:54:07.080 use his fancy like anymore. He was shooting instant instant cameras, 1:54:07.240 --> 1:54:09.599 not Kodak, I mean Code acted when they first came 1:54:09.600 --> 1:54:12.640 out with thirty five millimeter point and shoot. He was 1:54:12.760 --> 1:54:16.080 using that and so he he uh, you know, he 1:54:16.120 --> 1:54:18.960 shot the cover and the Stones loved all the shots. 1:54:19.200 --> 1:54:22.040 My pictures on it. Twice. I'm on that cover, you know, 1:54:22.080 --> 1:54:24.479 which is amazing. My daughter she was a big blow 1:54:24.560 --> 1:54:27.000 up of it, you know. Uh in our house was 1:54:27.120 --> 1:54:30.640 my little like wouldn't recognize me then, But yeah, I 1:54:30.680 --> 1:54:34.040 became very close with Robert Frank, and then we were 1:54:34.080 --> 1:54:36.480 in l A. And then they said, well, why don't 1:54:36.480 --> 1:54:41.680 we do a movie? And I said, great man, they 1:54:41.720 --> 1:54:44.280 had seen that my Bodiddley movie I told you I 1:54:44.320 --> 1:54:46.800 made in sixty two. Not only did they see it, 1:54:47.000 --> 1:54:50.880 Ian Ian Stewart their manager, their original member and piano 1:54:50.880 --> 1:54:53.400 player and road manager. He got a played on BBC 1:54:53.600 --> 1:55:00.160 two and you know one time and so you know, hey, 1:55:00.200 --> 1:55:02.920 I said, what a movie. Pretty, I'll I'll let's do that. 1:55:02.960 --> 1:55:05.760 You know, I'll talk to Robert Frank, but I already 1:55:05.760 --> 1:55:08.120 talked him about the cover and he loved the idea 1:55:08.200 --> 1:55:10.080 because he's you know, we just loved it. Was another 1:55:10.360 --> 1:55:13.200 going on tour with the Rolling Stones. He had all 1:55:13.280 --> 1:55:17.000 kinds of ideas. Super eight cameras just came out. We'll 1:55:17.040 --> 1:55:19.440 give each member of Super eight they can shoot. We'll 1:55:19.560 --> 1:55:21.840 edit it all later. You know what they shoot? When 1:55:21.840 --> 1:55:25.640 I shoot, I want to use Danny Seymour, who's also 1:55:25.720 --> 1:55:31.200 got a fabulous book. Father is famous Broadway photographer Seymour. 1:55:31.240 --> 1:55:32.640 If you go to any of those places, the black 1:55:32.640 --> 1:55:37.320 and whites of all the Broadway characters. Seymour was married 1:55:37.360 --> 1:55:40.680 to a socialite from Cape. You know, from Rima Kennedy's 1:55:41.040 --> 1:55:44.880 Hyanna supporters somewhere. He was an unusual guy. We also 1:55:44.920 --> 1:55:47.560 became he was a junkie though, and Robert said, he's 1:55:47.600 --> 1:55:50.440 a junkie. I want to use him a second camera 1:55:50.480 --> 1:55:54.520 and sound. Um, I want to use him. But he's 1:55:54.520 --> 1:55:56.720 a junkie. But I'm sure he'll he'll clean up. I'll 1:55:56.720 --> 1:55:59.720 get him to clean up. So I meet Danny Seymour 1:55:59.760 --> 1:56:02.320 and I make a deal. I go to Warner's film 1:56:02.760 --> 1:56:05.400 I forget the old guy there. Oh god, I can't 1:56:05.440 --> 1:56:10.520 remember that. Anyway, I made a deal. Uh were they paid? 1:56:10.880 --> 1:56:13.680 I think it was a hundred thousand dollar advance for 1:56:13.760 --> 1:56:17.960 first refusal rights to the film and um, which they 1:56:18.000 --> 1:56:21.840 ended up refusing actually, but at the time, and we 1:56:21.880 --> 1:56:25.839 went out and we went and made the film, and uh, 1:56:26.120 --> 1:56:29.280 you know it was It was amazing. Although as we 1:56:29.400 --> 1:56:33.160 beat the tour began, Robert became disenchanted more and more 1:56:33.520 --> 1:56:37.920 with the Stones, with the whole life, with the drugs. 1:56:38.200 --> 1:56:40.840 Danny went back on drugs. We found the shoes at 1:56:40.840 --> 1:56:44.920 the curb. I did some of the sound with Inaugura. Um, 1:56:45.680 --> 1:56:49.480 so it became weird. But my main experience told but 1:56:50.080 --> 1:56:52.600 Robert Frank He used to give me books to re 1:56:52.800 --> 1:56:54.560 keep the River on the right. That was the one 1:56:54.840 --> 1:56:57.280 that's where about the Amazon. And I ended up going 1:56:57.320 --> 1:56:59.360 twice because of that book. When he turned me onto, 1:56:59.800 --> 1:57:02.560 you know, to take ayahuasca. He was into it forty 1:57:02.640 --> 1:57:07.360 years ago. So Robert Frank turned me on two books, music, 1:57:08.000 --> 1:57:11.360 all kinds of hippie. He told me I was fucked up. 1:57:11.920 --> 1:57:14.680 He said, you are fucked up man. He said, you 1:57:14.680 --> 1:57:16.720 don't even know who you are. You know, you know 1:57:16.760 --> 1:57:21.720 he saw my construct, this ego centric guy. You know, 1:57:22.960 --> 1:57:25.240 yes it was. I was just at the top of 1:57:25.280 --> 1:57:31.280 my game of being great, you know. And uh so 1:57:31.720 --> 1:57:34.080 in Texas is that we have to do live. We 1:57:34.160 --> 1:57:37.320 need the live for the we can't do the live soundtrack. 1:57:38.320 --> 1:57:41.800 I call up Yoko Ono and John. They had a 1:57:41.840 --> 1:57:44.400 film company on White Street in New York because I 1:57:44.520 --> 1:57:47.080 use They had a Steve Gibbard. They had a film 1:57:47.120 --> 1:57:51.200 crew hit by this guy, Steve grab Gibbard, Bob Bob, 1:57:51.720 --> 1:57:54.280 I forget his last name. He mad, if I don't 1:57:54.320 --> 1:57:57.760 mention it anyway, Um, yeah, you can use the crew. 1:57:58.080 --> 1:58:00.320 Just pay him. You know, we're not doing any thing now. 1:58:00.320 --> 1:58:03.680 They had some people on weekly salary whatever a camera, 1:58:03.720 --> 1:58:08.320 couple of cameraman whatever. So they came to Texas, and 1:58:10.360 --> 1:58:12.600 I knew that that's the way the Stones work is 1:58:13.360 --> 1:58:16.760 by the third or fourth gig on a tour, the 1:58:16.800 --> 1:58:20.800 set is the sets locked, so it's the same every night, 1:58:20.800 --> 1:58:24.280 like a Broadway play. It's exact. I mean Midnight Raveler, 1:58:24.720 --> 1:58:28.320 he's whipping the floor. It's exact. It's exact. And I 1:58:28.400 --> 1:58:30.680 knew that, you know, I was fascinated by that. Actually, 1:58:31.760 --> 1:58:33.960 the whole construction of the tour. How we used to 1:58:33.960 --> 1:58:37.760 talk after the first one and and I love that 1:58:38.160 --> 1:58:40.600 I was being involved in something creative and new, and 1:58:40.640 --> 1:58:43.480 I just loved it. Anyway, we would talk about it 1:58:44.120 --> 1:58:48.600 and uh, and okay, we do the same set every night. 1:58:48.640 --> 1:58:52.080 So when we did Texas, I said, I have an idea, 1:58:53.000 --> 1:58:56.640 Steve Gebhard, the two cameraman, give them headsets with me, 1:58:56.720 --> 1:58:59.880 and I'll tell them every mixed coming out in one 1:59:00.000 --> 1:59:02.040 in it and kneel down so they know where to 1:59:02.080 --> 1:59:04.800 aim their cameras. It was like me calling the shots 1:59:04.960 --> 1:59:08.640 because I knew that that I did that the set 1:59:08.800 --> 1:59:12.080 ends in Dallas or Houston. We had two gigs. We're 1:59:12.120 --> 1:59:16.600 recording with a live truck, you know, live mobile. I 1:59:16.680 --> 1:59:18.880 get out to get in our limo with my crew, 1:59:19.240 --> 1:59:22.960 the Yoko Ono crew. Right. We had two big black 1:59:23.680 --> 1:59:28.160 security guys there. Uh, I don't know. I can't remember 1:59:28.200 --> 1:59:30.720 their name. At the moment um, it will come to me. 1:59:31.120 --> 1:59:34.360 Although it's not important. This one guy steps in front 1:59:34.360 --> 1:59:37.320 of me, Man, this is our car. You can't this 1:59:37.360 --> 1:59:39.360 isn't for your car. He was, you know, he and 1:59:39.400 --> 1:59:42.280 I lost my temper at him, completely lost my temper. 1:59:42.680 --> 1:59:46.560 Motherfucker's his micro Okay that and then we ended up 1:59:46.560 --> 1:59:49.400 getting a car. We left three or four days later. 1:59:49.640 --> 1:59:53.320 In those days, it wasn't like video. You you shot, 1:59:53.440 --> 1:59:56.120 you sent the negative to the New Yorker somewhere, they'd 1:59:56.160 --> 1:59:58.560 send you Russia's back in two days, and you look 1:59:58.600 --> 2:00:01.320 at what you got. Robert Franks has come out in 2:00:01.360 --> 2:00:04.440 this room, Marshall. I go in the room. He's got 2:00:04.440 --> 2:00:06.280 a projector and there's a little speed. He's looking at 2:00:06.280 --> 2:00:09.480 the rushes, you know. He says, sit down, and he 2:00:09.680 --> 2:00:13.520 hits the button, and it's me losing my temper. Without audio, 2:00:14.160 --> 2:00:17.040 my face was ugly, like the devil, like a monster. 2:00:17.280 --> 2:00:21.040 Close up of me in full a temper tantrum. Yeah, 2:00:21.040 --> 2:00:23.720 I couldn't even took me five times to look at it. 2:00:24.200 --> 2:00:27.720 That bloom. I mean, I can't tell you. It affected 2:00:27.760 --> 2:00:30.760 my whole life from that moment on, you know. And 2:00:30.880 --> 2:00:33.600 uh so he did stuff like that that he was 2:00:33.680 --> 2:00:35.480 like my surro good father. I went to just to 2:00:35.520 --> 2:00:37.680 go see him in the Bowery. We did the editing 2:00:37.680 --> 2:00:40.320 in the bar. We rented our own table, uh you know, 2:00:40.360 --> 2:00:42.080 with a couple of local kids that he hired to 2:00:42.160 --> 2:00:45.000 do the editing. Then the Stones were in. Uh So 2:00:45.200 --> 2:00:48.520 the first edit, I was involved in the editing. And 2:00:48.600 --> 2:00:50.640 you know, no one knew what he got. He's the 2:00:50.680 --> 2:00:53.440 father of realism. We got we were taking people with 2:00:53.520 --> 2:00:56.560 debbing sex, the doctor on the plane, the baggage guy 2:00:56.600 --> 2:00:59.360 eating pussy with the girl on his shoulders on the plane. 2:00:59.720 --> 2:01:01.880 I'm recording it. You know, we had that. No one 2:01:01.920 --> 2:01:05.440 knew what it was gonna be. So we were in Munich, Germany, 2:01:05.480 --> 2:01:08.120 and I came from New York with a you know, 2:01:08.200 --> 2:01:11.400 with a reel of film sixteen millimeter I guess whatever. 2:01:11.560 --> 2:01:14.640 I think it was super sixteen or sixteen. And they 2:01:14.640 --> 2:01:16.880 sat in this screening room and I put it on. 2:01:17.080 --> 2:01:19.720 They hated they, oh my god, they didn't like it. 2:01:19.840 --> 2:01:22.880 They felt like I did, seeing myself losing my temper. 2:01:23.120 --> 2:01:24.960 They didn't like a lot of it. There was some 2:01:25.040 --> 2:01:27.080 stuff with me, you know, they we they just didn't 2:01:27.080 --> 2:01:31.480 like it. So they wanted a lot of edits and 2:01:31.760 --> 2:01:35.920 you know, they said what they wanted, and Ahmed would say, 2:01:35.960 --> 2:01:38.839 cut out. There was pictures of armed snorting and smoking. 2:01:39.040 --> 2:01:41.320 Cut that out, please, I beg you, Marshall, I did. 2:01:41.640 --> 2:01:44.840 I threw it on the floor for him. He went 2:01:44.880 --> 2:01:47.520 to my Missville, I want to you know, Uh, no 2:01:47.520 --> 2:01:49.840 one wanted to be be shot that way, you know, 2:01:50.400 --> 2:01:53.080 and uh so then so then you know, there was 2:01:53.120 --> 2:01:55.440 a whole scene about the film and they didn't you know, 2:01:56.000 --> 2:01:58.040 they didn't want it out. They thought it was you know, 2:01:58.840 --> 2:02:01.800 it showed too much drugs and him watch weirdness and 2:02:02.000 --> 2:02:04.440 even though it was highly real. But I will admit 2:02:04.920 --> 2:02:07.720 Robert frank and he admitted this to me. He as 2:02:07.760 --> 2:02:12.400 he became more malcontent with the tour, his the way 2:02:12.440 --> 2:02:15.560 he edited and shot became malcontent. In other words, he 2:02:15.680 --> 2:02:18.880 left out the Magnificent seven ship, all the fun, all 2:02:18.880 --> 2:02:21.480 the laughter. He left a lot of that out. You know, 2:02:21.560 --> 2:02:23.760 we were having a good time, you know, um the 2:02:23.800 --> 2:02:27.480 group he's uh, the music, he left a lot out. 2:02:27.560 --> 2:02:30.120 He got more into the how fucked it was, you know, 2:02:30.160 --> 2:02:33.640 the whole Rolling Stones just it wasn't that healthy to him. 2:02:33.920 --> 2:02:35.680 What it was the opposite of the beat nick thing. 2:02:35.720 --> 2:02:39.040 You know. He didn't like it, um, but he knew 2:02:39.080 --> 2:02:41.360 it was a great document. He liked the film because 2:02:41.400 --> 2:02:44.800 he was real, you know. But so the Stones own 2:02:44.840 --> 2:02:47.680 that they had the right warners refused on the option. 2:02:48.720 --> 2:02:51.600 There was a four grand I had a four hundred grand. 2:02:52.520 --> 2:02:55.320 I own percent of that film. I had a four 2:02:56.080 --> 2:03:01.480 grand recoupment. Now that same guy did uh that. I 2:03:01.560 --> 2:03:04.840 hired my buddy from my dad's advertiser. He's from Robin 2:03:04.920 --> 2:03:08.680 Binzer who did Rotary Connection name and all that. He 2:03:08.800 --> 2:03:11.000 called me up. He said, let me make a music 2:03:11.040 --> 2:03:14.720 film out of what Yoko. You know what what Yoko 2:03:14.760 --> 2:03:17.360 and Gubbard shot. We'll call it, Ladies and gentlemen, the 2:03:17.440 --> 2:03:21.000 Rolling Stones will make two films. I talked to the Stones. Yeah, 2:03:21.120 --> 2:03:26.680 great idea first music film. We'll tour it with. We're 2:03:26.680 --> 2:03:28.920 gonna open it in New York at the zig Field. 2:03:29.280 --> 2:03:33.120 We're gonna have a rock concert sound system. And because 2:03:33.120 --> 2:03:35.680 of Alan there oh three m Game was the first 2:03:35.720 --> 2:03:39.760 stereo music track on our ladies and gentlemen. I can 2:03:39.800 --> 2:03:44.040 remember that I went to the grand opening and Robins 2:03:44.240 --> 2:03:48.040 sold it to this guy Miles, you could look it up. 2:03:48.400 --> 2:03:50.680 He sold it to a guy who blew it into 2:03:50.800 --> 2:03:53.600 this distribution of it and he couldn't you know, the 2:03:53.600 --> 2:03:56.839 guy blew it and the and the ladies and gentlemen 2:03:56.880 --> 2:04:00.800 thing collapsed. And so the Stones didn't want cock Sucker out. 2:04:01.080 --> 2:04:03.640 They made a deal. They could only be shown at 2:04:03.760 --> 2:04:06.320 art like the Museum of Modern Art has shown it 2:04:06.480 --> 2:04:09.360 numerous times. It could be shown as film art with 2:04:09.920 --> 2:04:13.800 Robert Franken attendance, you know, not commercially, not on HBO. 2:04:14.000 --> 2:04:16.920 I've heard HBO offered am in advanced for it. I've 2:04:16.920 --> 2:04:21.120 heard that I don't know, um in the meantime um 2:04:21.560 --> 2:04:24.680 a video when when videos VHS and all that was 2:04:24.720 --> 2:04:27.400 the big thing video but you know, Blockbuster and all that. 2:04:28.000 --> 2:04:31.200 A company just wanted to buy ladies and gentlemen the 2:04:31.320 --> 2:04:34.360 music part, and we sold it to him and they 2:04:34.360 --> 2:04:37.000 paid a million bucks. So I recouped the four hundred 2:04:37.240 --> 2:04:41.200 and I got my ten percent on the six hunter. Okay, 2:04:41.320 --> 2:04:44.040 what comes around goes around, and someday my kids will 2:04:44.080 --> 2:04:46.840 get money for Cocksucker. When it's on HBO because it 2:04:46.880 --> 2:04:49.000 will be you know, once they can't get suit and 2:04:49.040 --> 2:04:51.520 they were all dead, you know, I mean there's a 2:04:51.520 --> 2:04:53.040 lot of ship in there. Because I didn't know, I 2:04:53.080 --> 2:04:54.760 didn't get a lot a lot of it was my 2:04:54.840 --> 2:04:59.160 fault as producer. It was impossible to get releases. Willie 2:04:59.240 --> 2:05:01.720 the baggage man, and with the girl on his shoulder 2:05:02.040 --> 2:05:04.520 on the plane eating her, he wasn't gonna sign it 2:05:04.600 --> 2:05:07.520 re lease. He had a white and kids. You know, uh, 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:10.560 you know there was there was a tour doctor who 2:05:10.640 --> 2:05:14.520 was a sex maniac. He would have cards, white cards 2:05:14.520 --> 2:05:17.080 with the Rolling Stones logo the tongue, and he looked 2:05:17.200 --> 2:05:19.400 for the prettiest girls in the audience. And he's right. 2:05:19.440 --> 2:05:22.040 And then we in every city, we'd have our own suite. 2:05:22.440 --> 2:05:26.240 We'd want on a neutral suite called we We. We'd 2:05:26.280 --> 2:05:29.480 make it Mr White or Mr Yellow case anyone busted 2:05:29.560 --> 2:05:31.880 us would been under no one's name because of drugs 2:05:31.960 --> 2:05:36.360 or anything. So yes, So this guy, Larry, I don't 2:05:36.400 --> 2:05:39.480 gotta say his name, but the doctor um, he would 2:05:39.520 --> 2:05:41.480 hand our cards to all these pretty girls. You'd say, 2:05:41.720 --> 2:05:43.600 you want to meet the Stones, come to this suite 2:05:43.800 --> 2:05:47.280 at midnight or some got girls that were there on dates. 2:05:47.520 --> 2:05:49.880 He would maybe give out twenty cards. Five or six 2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:52.720 would show up. It was shocking to meet nicker Keith 2:05:52.800 --> 2:05:55.480 or to screw him, you know, and they were never around. 2:05:55.560 --> 2:05:58.680 Sometimes they would take one. I was all this doctor 2:05:58.680 --> 2:06:00.640 would have his sweet pickings and would say, well, I 2:06:00.640 --> 2:06:03.880 would introduce you if you uh, you know, it was 2:06:03.920 --> 2:06:06.640 a trip. It was really a bizarre That tour was bizarre. 2:06:07.280 --> 2:06:09.959 And then the wives all came to visit us in Canada. 2:06:10.560 --> 2:06:13.640 It was crazy. But uh, you know the whole that 2:06:13.640 --> 2:06:15.680 whole scene was crazy. That was the epitome of the 2:06:15.720 --> 2:06:19.200 croupies and you know the claster casts. All that was 2:06:19.240 --> 2:06:22.080 going on. You know, Um, it was a lot of fun. 2:06:22.240 --> 2:06:24.120 That's why I say I would do it all over again, 2:06:24.400 --> 2:06:27.440 you know if I had to. But I'm glad I left. 2:06:27.960 --> 2:06:33.760 Well you're there, Mick Taylor's replacement guitarists. He ultimately leaves, 2:06:34.600 --> 2:06:37.440 and you know what was really going on amongst the band, 2:06:37.520 --> 2:06:41.080 bill Wan, what was going on was Mick Taylor. Uh, 2:06:41.920 --> 2:06:44.400 you know, Mick Taylor. They got Mick Taylor because he's 2:06:44.440 --> 2:06:49.360 just so fucking brilliant of a guitarist and in my opinion, 2:06:49.400 --> 2:06:53.480 as a record producer. It was the best overall Stone 2:06:53.560 --> 2:06:57.840 sound because he played a less Paul, he played a 2:06:57.880 --> 2:07:02.400 whole other style of lead guitar and Keith he Uh. 2:07:02.480 --> 2:07:07.280 They they coexisted. Beautiful they're playing together, his his lead 2:07:07.320 --> 2:07:10.800 and mixed rhythm. Uh and mixed mix, I mean mix 2:07:11.520 --> 2:07:15.000 mixed lead and Keith's rhythm. To me as a record producer, 2:07:15.200 --> 2:07:19.840 it was just genius. Those tracks are brilliant and but 2:07:19.920 --> 2:07:21.880 he couldn't take it. He couldn't take the pressure of 2:07:21.920 --> 2:07:25.360 being a rolling Stone. And he had a wife, Rose, 2:07:25.840 --> 2:07:30.000 who was very incestuous with other members, and I think 2:07:30.000 --> 2:07:34.440 it totally destroyed a lot of his something he did 2:07:34.480 --> 2:07:38.200 not like being a rolling Stone. I remember one time 2:07:38.200 --> 2:07:42.440 he froze his his shoulders with freeze and he eventually quit. 2:07:42.840 --> 2:07:45.880 I went to Robert Stigwood, Mick and I went to 2:07:46.000 --> 2:07:50.919 Robert Stigwood's house. Ahmard was there too, and Eric Clapton 2:07:51.080 --> 2:07:53.640 and they were all there at this party. Robert Stigwood 2:07:53.640 --> 2:07:56.080 gave and we went to Mick Taylor begging him to 2:07:56.120 --> 2:07:58.880 not leave, but he said he was leaving. And and 2:07:58.960 --> 2:08:03.160 then and then I saw, uh who it was. It 2:08:03.200 --> 2:08:05.960 wasn't Mick Taylor. It was someone that was so drunk 2:08:06.000 --> 2:08:09.480 and ripped. I'm matsued. It was a terrible but we left. 2:08:09.480 --> 2:08:11.240 We not you even needed that. That's when and I 2:08:11.240 --> 2:08:14.840 hadn't known Ron would We were friends before while rom 2:08:14.880 --> 2:08:16.840 when he was in the Faces, Keith in introduced me 2:08:16.880 --> 2:08:18.600 to him. We go into his house. He had his 2:08:18.600 --> 2:08:22.480 own little studio. But Keith and Ron would they play 2:08:22.480 --> 2:08:25.560 a similar style? They're both brilliant, you know. In fact, 2:08:26.000 --> 2:08:28.000 if I wanted, if I wanted to get into it, 2:08:28.080 --> 2:08:32.080 I have a great idea to produce them. Now. Then 2:08:32.440 --> 2:08:34.160 I have an idea for two rhythms that I have 2:08:34.200 --> 2:08:35.520 a great but I don't know if I want to 2:08:35.520 --> 2:08:38.560 get into it. But I just with them again. But uh, 2:08:38.800 --> 2:08:41.400 I do have a concept that you know, and it 2:08:41.400 --> 2:08:43.760 doesn't matter who the vocalist is. Just I have a 2:08:43.800 --> 2:08:47.000 great idea because I always felt they never took advantage 2:08:47.480 --> 2:08:50.480 of their similarity. Uh, and I thought they could do 2:08:50.560 --> 2:08:54.320 some amazing stuff if they if it was just directed right, Okay, 2:08:54.320 --> 2:08:57.560 so it ends with the stones. How do we get 2:08:57.600 --> 2:09:00.200 to today? How long does it take to pick yourself up? 2:09:00.520 --> 2:09:02.680 And what do you want to do there after? Oh? 2:09:02.800 --> 2:09:04.480 It ends with the stones. Yeah, it ends with the 2:09:04.520 --> 2:09:10.440 Stones and I I, uh quit the Stones. They were upset. 2:09:10.480 --> 2:09:12.520 They thought, I'm You're quitting because of us. I said, no, 2:09:12.600 --> 2:09:15.480 I'm not quit because of me. And I knew I 2:09:15.480 --> 2:09:18.600 wanted to stop the drugs. I'd tried many times during 2:09:18.640 --> 2:09:21.680 the last year and a half of the Stones, I 2:09:21.720 --> 2:09:24.480 had tried drugs stopping and failed. Went back, you know, 2:09:25.040 --> 2:09:29.600 stop went back, very difficult being around Keith who also 2:09:29.680 --> 2:09:33.560 was stopping, going back, stopping tour. It was difficult, um, 2:09:33.680 --> 2:09:36.880 And so I knew what happened is I uh. The 2:09:37.080 --> 2:09:41.400 ending scenario is uh, I would buy methodone from on 2:09:41.520 --> 2:09:44.360 the black market in New York, and I knew a druggist. 2:09:44.600 --> 2:09:49.440 We all knew this druggist who uh yeah, he was 2:09:49.520 --> 2:09:51.560 part of us. We knew this druggist was a Rolling 2:09:51.600 --> 2:09:53.920 Stones groupie. And he would put it in a bottle 2:09:54.000 --> 2:09:55.879 and make with a label like it was a Vitamin 2:09:55.960 --> 2:09:58.520 C tonic because I would get sick, you know, I 2:09:58.560 --> 2:10:02.400 was snorting heroin and stuff. And we were in Montrose, Switzerland, 2:10:02.920 --> 2:10:06.920 and Uh, I went to fancy five star hotel and 2:10:06.960 --> 2:10:09.560 I went to in the morning, I woke up feeling horrible. 2:10:10.160 --> 2:10:12.880 I went to the maybe after I opened that bottle 2:10:12.880 --> 2:10:14.480 and I drank it and I looked in the mirror. 2:10:14.600 --> 2:10:17.640 That was it. That night I quit. I saw myself 2:10:18.480 --> 2:10:21.440 all that acid. I guess did something Robert Frank. I 2:10:21.480 --> 2:10:24.320 saw myself the way I really was at that moment, 2:10:24.800 --> 2:10:27.720 and I quit. That night I went we all went 2:10:27.760 --> 2:10:29.920 to Remember in the hotel room, telling him I was leaving. 2:10:30.720 --> 2:10:32.920 I said, otherwise I'm gonna die. It's not what I 2:10:32.960 --> 2:10:36.120 can't be here anymore. It's time. This w chapters and 2:10:36.400 --> 2:10:38.320 they said, oh, it's our not our fault. That's what 2:10:38.360 --> 2:10:42.560 I remember. It's not your fault, obviously. And I left. 2:10:42.920 --> 2:10:46.280 And then I came back to New York and I 2:10:46.360 --> 2:10:48.240 was having a hard time. I used to get seventy 2:10:48.240 --> 2:10:50.960 phone calls to day all the Ksano it was zero one. 2:10:51.320 --> 2:10:54.280 You know, no longer the guy. You know. That's what 2:10:54.360 --> 2:10:56.520 you learned when you're with the Stones. It's never about you. 2:10:56.960 --> 2:11:00.640 That's the part that destroys you. It's only about them. 2:11:00.880 --> 2:11:03.320 They make you think it's about you to get to them, 2:11:03.480 --> 2:11:06.080 but you gets easy to get sucked into that. Yeah, 2:11:06.160 --> 2:11:09.200 So once that was taken away. So anyway, I during 2:11:09.240 --> 2:11:11.240 one of the last Stone store, I had met a 2:11:11.280 --> 2:11:14.520 cocaine smuggler who lived in Bearsville, New York, couple where 2:11:14.520 --> 2:11:19.400 I lived now near Woodstock. Not a dealer, smuggler, you know. 2:11:19.760 --> 2:11:24.000 And his deal was he would supply drugs basically to 2:11:24.160 --> 2:11:27.640 Keith and me for front row tickets of every concert. 2:11:27.680 --> 2:11:30.440 He carried it from gig to gig in Europe. So 2:11:30.520 --> 2:11:33.000 that was great. You know. We also once had a 2:11:33.080 --> 2:11:35.440 C I X C I. A guy hearing it, you 2:11:35.520 --> 2:11:40.200 don't know it wants to get busted. So anyway, I 2:11:40.240 --> 2:11:42.920 went up to I called the guy up. I said, 2:11:42.920 --> 2:11:44.840 come you know, I'm coming on board and come come 2:11:44.920 --> 2:11:46.880 up here, man, come up you know. So I drove 2:11:46.960 --> 2:11:52.240 up from New York to Bearsville and I uh, I 2:11:52.360 --> 2:11:54.320 was meeting the Woodstock Times. It was an ad for 2:11:54.400 --> 2:11:57.120 this house I'm sitting in now, and I said, man, 2:11:57.160 --> 2:12:00.120 I need a place to change my you know, it 2:12:00.160 --> 2:12:03.160 was time to shift, to really get in a whole 2:12:03.480 --> 2:12:06.880 get back to my spiritual and the whole thing. And 2:12:06.920 --> 2:12:09.040 I just said, I want to see that how something 2:12:09.080 --> 2:12:11.920 about it? And I spent spent overnight on holiday in 2:12:12.920 --> 2:12:15.440 in Kingston, New York. I came up here the next day, 2:12:15.520 --> 2:12:18.920 was sort of dilapidated. It's on built a hundred years 2:12:18.920 --> 2:12:21.720 old on ten acres of land. It was built by 2:12:21.720 --> 2:12:24.360 the people that owned the Align Electric Chain Company back 2:12:24.400 --> 2:12:27.360 in the twenties. They had money. Heated floor in the bedroom, 2:12:27.400 --> 2:12:30.040 but old time, hundred years you know. And I bought 2:12:30.080 --> 2:12:32.880 it to uh I was I was divorced by then 2:12:33.680 --> 2:12:36.560 from my for the bad marriage. I bought it. This 2:12:36.600 --> 2:12:38.600 was where I was gonna clean up and change my life, 2:12:38.720 --> 2:12:41.720 kept back to nature, and I did. That's what happened, 2:12:41.720 --> 2:12:43.360 and I met my wife in the city and we 2:12:43.520 --> 2:12:46.720 ended up moving here. But it took me a long time. 2:12:46.800 --> 2:12:50.800 That's when I went through the whole therapy, the LSD psychotherapy. 2:12:51.160 --> 2:12:54.800 I I was going to a psychiatrist in Manhattan named 2:12:54.880 --> 2:12:58.840 Joe Gross and he said to me, you know, I'm 2:12:58.920 --> 2:13:01.840 just not doing it with you it. There's a brilliant guy, 2:13:01.920 --> 2:13:06.200 the father of LSD psychedelics, coming from Austin, Texas. He's 2:13:06.200 --> 2:13:10.440 the Russian Jew Polish Jew, Harry Hermone coming in New York. 2:13:11.120 --> 2:13:13.120 He had to leave Texas. I didn't know why then, 2:13:13.200 --> 2:13:15.400 but he had to leave for some stupid read. He 2:13:15.520 --> 2:13:19.440 had the first marijuana licensed federal in America nineties sixties 2:13:19.560 --> 2:13:23.840 for CBD, invented CBD to grow pop for sleeping. He 2:13:23.920 --> 2:13:26.880 was that brilliant. He's a pharmacologist, like you know, full 2:13:28.040 --> 2:13:33.480 brilliant psychiatrist. Um anyway, um so he said, this guy's coming. 2:13:33.480 --> 2:13:36.320 And Harry Hermon did not like private patients. He got 2:13:36.320 --> 2:13:39.560 a job at King's County, the largest psychiatric hospital I 2:13:39.600 --> 2:13:43.160 think in America in the in New York, and he 2:13:43.280 --> 2:13:45.480 was in forensic. He had he did this slasher of 2:13:45.520 --> 2:13:48.680 Staten Island. He did criminals and his own clients with 2:13:48.840 --> 2:13:56.480 Lou reading me. That was it two junkies. There was 2:13:56.520 --> 2:13:59.960 already clients. And uh he saw me for a year. Man. 2:14:00.080 --> 2:14:01.760 You know, Nanny took acid with me and that we 2:14:01.880 --> 2:14:04.040 became friends. You know. He ended up moving to Israel. 2:14:04.080 --> 2:14:07.520 He's dead now. Um So that's how all that stopped. 2:14:07.560 --> 2:14:09.200 But in the meantime, I had the house up here, 2:14:09.920 --> 2:14:12.840 and um I met my I met my wife, who 2:14:12.880 --> 2:14:15.520 was a school teacher, and you know, my life changed. 2:14:15.520 --> 2:14:19.400 I had kids. Everything changed then when my my mother 2:14:19.440 --> 2:14:23.360 had inherited and my mother died. She had inherited my 2:14:23.440 --> 2:14:26.320 father's share of Arc Music, which was the Chess Records 2:14:26.360 --> 2:14:30.560 publishing that was run by Gene Goodman. That Harry Goodman's 2:14:30.600 --> 2:14:33.200 brother you know another mont of Benny Goodman's brothers in 2:14:33.240 --> 2:14:36.480 New York that was through Alan Arrow and those people. 2:14:37.000 --> 2:14:41.360 But we knew nothing of copyrighting Publishing International. The original 2:14:41.400 --> 2:14:45.400 deal though, was they only owned the Chess publishing for 2:14:45.560 --> 2:14:50.120 not Chess records. In other words, anything they got European anything, 2:14:50.320 --> 2:14:54.600 other labels cover records. But when Chess was sold, they 2:14:54.600 --> 2:14:57.160 had the windfalls getting it all then, you know, because 2:14:57.280 --> 2:15:00.960 when Chess was so, that ended. So they owned it 2:15:01.160 --> 2:15:03.320 and uh, you know, they was doing great all the 2:15:03.640 --> 2:15:07.480 you know, all the advertising and everything. And my mother 2:15:07.680 --> 2:15:10.400 was a partner, and my mother died and willed it 2:15:10.400 --> 2:15:12.840 to me. That was a struggle like that guy Jean 2:15:12.880 --> 2:15:15.600 Goodman tried to cut me out. I had a break 2:15:15.640 --> 2:15:18.360 into the office of this no old Silverman, another big 2:15:18.680 --> 2:15:23.000 entertainment lawyer who wrote the He had to admit that 2:15:23.080 --> 2:15:25.840 I was had the right to inherit my mother's share, 2:15:26.680 --> 2:15:30.440 and then I became a partner. And then I threw 2:15:30.480 --> 2:15:32.840 out Jean Goodman because I called him he was he 2:15:32.920 --> 2:15:35.280 had my uncle and him was stealing from my mother 2:15:36.320 --> 2:15:38.720 and my uncle didn't even know it. And when I 2:15:38.760 --> 2:15:41.120 showed that to my uncle, who were on Santa Monica 2:15:41.200 --> 2:15:46.560 Boulevard driving to the Palmer Somewhere, Eddie jammed on the brakes. 2:15:46.600 --> 2:15:48.600 He freaked out. He never spoke to me. Pete on 2:15:48.680 --> 2:15:51.320 him at the Friars Club. He didn't realize that he 2:15:51.400 --> 2:15:54.000 made him a partner, that that was such an affront 2:15:54.200 --> 2:15:57.520 that he would that he would steal from his brother's wife. 2:15:57.640 --> 2:16:00.960 You know, Oh my god, and so ruined their friendship. 2:16:01.000 --> 2:16:03.600 They never spoke after I showed him, I spelled it out, 2:16:04.120 --> 2:16:08.120 and instead of going to court and suing Genleman, I 2:16:08.280 --> 2:16:10.560 told him to go home. I didn't want to start loss. 2:16:10.680 --> 2:16:13.000 I didn't want it, and I took it over and 2:16:13.040 --> 2:16:15.520 I changed it from Madison Avenue to the west Side 2:16:15.640 --> 2:16:19.400 Ninth Avenue. Oh, young people, we boomed. I made a 2:16:19.400 --> 2:16:22.000 great publishing company. I ran it for twenties, you know, 2:16:22.840 --> 2:16:28.160 two until two you know, when I sold it to Fuji, 2:16:28.800 --> 2:16:31.839 and now it's owned by BMG. I sold the Fuji 2:16:31.960 --> 2:16:35.240 Japan UM. But yeah, I made a great company. I 2:16:35.240 --> 2:16:37.160 loved that I lived up here. I used to go 2:16:37.200 --> 2:16:38.760 to the city and sleep one or two nights a 2:16:38.800 --> 2:16:41.320 week in hotels or at an apartment, my mother in 2:16:41.400 --> 2:16:44.120 law's apartment. UM, and I raised my kids here. My 2:16:44.160 --> 2:16:48.360 wife was a school teacher and uh changed my life 2:16:48.360 --> 2:16:50.640 and I met you know so that and now I've 2:16:50.680 --> 2:16:54.400 just been working on not becoming me. This is really 2:16:54.440 --> 2:16:57.320 hard for me. It's against my what youreld Barbara fake, 2:16:57.400 --> 2:17:00.520 you know, forget who you are because it's bullshit. It's 2:17:00.560 --> 2:17:02.600 just like what the shirt you're wearing. You're much more 2:17:02.640 --> 2:17:04.680 than who you are, he taught. They laid a lot 2:17:04.680 --> 2:17:07.240 of good ship on me. I've never been happier in 2:17:07.360 --> 2:17:10.119 my life. I live in the woods. I walk around 2:17:10.160 --> 2:17:13.320 the forest. I still take psychedel was you know, uh 2:17:13.400 --> 2:17:16.320 if I can. Mushrooms are now every everyone, every kid 2:17:16.360 --> 2:17:18.640 I know has a bag of mushrooms. You know. Um, 2:17:19.000 --> 2:17:21.640 I smoke pots still. I don't take hard drugs anymore. 2:17:22.320 --> 2:17:25.200 I had serious surgery three years ago this month. I 2:17:25.240 --> 2:17:27.879 had to learn to walk again. Two years ago. Took 2:17:27.920 --> 2:17:30.160 me a year and learned to walk laying on the 2:17:30.160 --> 2:17:32.400 couch or a double back surgery. I went down on 2:17:32.400 --> 2:17:35.760 a hundred one pounds and it was near death and 2:17:35.879 --> 2:17:39.440 something happened again. I can't another indescribable thing. I'm like 2:17:39.520 --> 2:17:42.080 a weird I get people laughing. I'll get you laughing 2:17:42.120 --> 2:17:44.640 because I have a happier. Something happened to me. When 2:17:44.640 --> 2:17:46.920 you get near dying, you realize how much time you 2:17:47.000 --> 2:17:51.120 waste on bullshit. That happened. That's something happened to me. 2:17:51.560 --> 2:17:55.040 I was, you know, on that couch, trying to gain 2:17:55.080 --> 2:17:56.800 weight a pine of hog and doze to day. I 2:17:56.840 --> 2:17:59.680 couldn't gain I was like the Oshwitz. I looked in 2:17:59.720 --> 2:18:03.720 the mirror and cried the first time. That's like I 2:18:03.840 --> 2:18:06.200 was twelve years old at that way. There's nothing. It 2:18:06.320 --> 2:18:08.920 was horrible, but anyway it was. It turned out to 2:18:08.920 --> 2:18:11.000 be a positive thing. You hear about that all time 2:18:11.080 --> 2:18:14.600 right in life. That weird ship turns out good. And 2:18:14.640 --> 2:18:17.760 now I'm I'm enjoying riding around in my car and 2:18:18.879 --> 2:18:22.000 I'm gonna talk to keith I I recently. Do you 2:18:22.040 --> 2:18:24.120 think I have a good memory. I'm gonna tell you 2:18:24.160 --> 2:18:27.360 a memory story about the rolling Stones. Does it sound 2:18:27.400 --> 2:18:29.480 like an eight year old guye that those has a 2:18:29.480 --> 2:18:31.920 good memory talking to you? Yes? I do think you 2:18:31.959 --> 2:18:34.840 have a good memory. Okay, I think you want to 2:18:34.840 --> 2:18:42.400 hear the story about memory. It's a rolling stone story. So, uh, 2:18:42.560 --> 2:18:47.039 we're in uh France and in Switzerland, and uh we 2:18:47.120 --> 2:18:49.039 have a tour coming up and both Keith and I 2:18:49.120 --> 2:18:56.760 are taking hard drugs, heroin um and everything else anything 2:18:56.800 --> 2:19:00.080 if you get you know, we like drugs and we 2:19:00.200 --> 2:19:01.680 but we knew he had a clean up for the tour. 2:19:01.760 --> 2:19:06.600 I wanted to and we had heard about in Marseilles, 2:19:06.640 --> 2:19:10.879 France there was a drug shortage and they we heard 2:19:10.920 --> 2:19:14.160 about this Swiss doctor, Dr Denver, and he said, well, 2:19:14.280 --> 2:19:16.879 there was a heroin drought in France and they were 2:19:17.160 --> 2:19:19.640 a drug that had been invented by a drug company 2:19:19.640 --> 2:19:22.840 in Paris called lucid drill. You could look it up. 2:19:22.879 --> 2:19:25.439 It's called many different things, but it was called lucidrill 2:19:26.160 --> 2:19:29.960 by a French lady. And uh he wanted to use 2:19:30.000 --> 2:19:32.920 it on Keith and I for a drug here, and 2:19:32.959 --> 2:19:37.920 we said okay, and we took it was injectable and 2:19:37.959 --> 2:19:40.720 he gave you barbituous to sleep through the sickness. But 2:19:40.760 --> 2:19:43.440 it was mostly this lucid drill. We took hundreds of 2:19:43.480 --> 2:19:47.280 these pills, you know, big bottles, and I saw I 2:19:47.320 --> 2:19:50.320 had many times three or four cures I took with him, 2:19:50.360 --> 2:19:55.400 trying three for sure, Keith maybe two or three. And 2:19:55.440 --> 2:19:57.560 then it ended, you know, and it didn't cure us. 2:19:57.600 --> 2:19:59.800 We went back and I ended up coming here doing 2:19:59.800 --> 2:20:03.600 what I told you to cure. But recently I decided 2:20:03.720 --> 2:20:05.520 I wonder what happened to that lucid drill. So I 2:20:05.560 --> 2:20:08.400 look it up online and it's one of the drugs 2:20:08.520 --> 2:20:13.240 given for Alzheimer's to remove plaque in your brain. So 2:20:13.400 --> 2:20:16.119 I think in our thirties, Keith and I started fresh, 2:20:17.000 --> 2:20:19.600 we cleaned out all the ship. I want to call me, 2:20:19.640 --> 2:20:22.480 ask him, how's your memory? Because everyone I know tells 2:20:22.520 --> 2:20:26.040 me it's shocking my memory. Other eight year olds, you know, 2:20:26.600 --> 2:20:29.360 I I and it's true. I I feel that things 2:20:29.400 --> 2:20:33.160 come up from way and I'm wondering if that we're laughing, 2:20:33.400 --> 2:20:35.800 could it be the lucid drill? You know? And this 2:20:35.959 --> 2:20:40.320 story and I'm not knowe Marshal, we'll leave it here 2:20:40.360 --> 2:20:44.640 for the first chapter. You're a fount of stories well told. 2:20:45.000 --> 2:20:46.840 I want to thank you so much for taking the 2:20:46.840 --> 2:20:50.000 time to talk to my audience. You asked good questions. 2:20:50.040 --> 2:20:53.800 You're good. You're good until next time. This is Bob 2:20:53.879 --> 2:20:54.440 left Sex