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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sess Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Marshall Chess. Marshall, when did you

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Speaker 1: realize your father was in the record business? Oh? God,

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Speaker 1: when I was maybe uh so in nineteen fifty, I

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Speaker 1: would be uh eight forty two, eight eight or ten

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Speaker 1: years old. When he first started. He used to bring

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Speaker 1: home the records, you know when when he first started,

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Speaker 1: which was ninety seven, But I really knew in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty when Chess started. Then I knew that was much

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Speaker 1: more because he started. He still had a nightclub when

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Speaker 1: he started, called the Macambo Lounge, and the company that

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Speaker 1: he bought to turn to Chess was called Aristocrat Records,

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Speaker 1: and he started working as a salesman. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: learn learn, so from nineteen forty seven to nineteen fifty,

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Speaker 1: while the nightclub still existed, my uncle came back from

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Speaker 1: the army. He worked as a salesman for Aristocratic Record.

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Speaker 1: Whatever that meant um. I never even discussed that with him,

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Speaker 1: but that's what it says. He was a salesman and

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Speaker 1: then in nineteen fifty he formed Chess Records and started.

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Speaker 1: Actually I was my father was a workaholic, from the always,

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Speaker 1: so I hardly saw him. I was the first and

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Speaker 1: only son. I was desperate to play. He never played ball, right,

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Speaker 1: he was an immigrant that came over in nineteen twenty two,

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Speaker 1: So he wasn't We weren't playing ball. It wasn't the

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Speaker 1: typical American thing. He was always at work and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I knew that that was my My

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Speaker 1: way to him was through the family business, through work.

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Speaker 1: Let's start there. Okay, your father was an immigrant. Your

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Speaker 1: mother was she born in the States where she immigrant

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Speaker 1: to My mother was born in the States from immigrant parents.

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Speaker 1: How did your parents meet? Uh? They met in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Evidently the real story was my father had a girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: He must he was in his early twenties. He had

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend from a wealthier Jewish family that the father

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Speaker 1: made her not see my father because he was an

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Speaker 1: immigrant peasant. But my father really loved her, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I guess he met my mother was on the rebound.

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Speaker 1: And um, they had a really close friend that both

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Speaker 1: my father and this guy, Marty Whitzel, worked at a

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Speaker 1: shoe store called Burger Shoe Store. Shoes, you know, shoe guys.

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Speaker 1: It was a big, big, giant shoe store where everyone

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Speaker 1: got discount, cheaper Jewish kind of business. And they got married.

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Speaker 1: He my mother and my father and this guy Marty

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Speaker 1: and Millie. He had a double wedding and they got

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Speaker 1: married together. They were very close friends, and that's how

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Speaker 1: it began. You know. I've seen early photos of them

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Speaker 1: horseback riding in the park in Chicago. But yeah, they

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Speaker 1: got married very young. Um, and uh, that's how they met,

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Speaker 1: you know, through through My father didn't like working in

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Speaker 1: this shoe's store. He was a milkman before that. He

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Speaker 1: hated working for people. He instilled that in me very much, so,

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Speaker 1: so I know, and I instilled it in my son

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Speaker 1: and my daughter, so I know how that goes when

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Speaker 1: you're in still young. But uh, he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: work for people, so he that in Chicago. We gotta

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Speaker 1: go back to a million black people came up from

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Speaker 1: the Illinois Central from Memphis, primarily from Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: Kentucky into Chicago to make money. They could not make

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Speaker 1: money in the South. It was short and that before

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Speaker 1: civil rights, not long after slavery. You know, it was

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Speaker 1: very difficult. World War two hit and the factories in

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Speaker 1: Chicago go, Uh, it became like a bloodline for making money.

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Speaker 1: So they you know, immigrants, Black immigrants along with Irish,

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Speaker 1: Polish Jews. They all came to Chicago at the same

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Speaker 1: time and it was really an immigrant center. So my

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Speaker 1: father that black people could not they couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: store front. They didn't have bank accounts. People like young

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Speaker 1: people don't understand that no bank accounts, no storefront, didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about business. And um, my father and my

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Speaker 1: uncle both heard black. My grandfather, Joe Chess came seven

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Speaker 1: years prior to America with okay, just one second, what

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Speaker 1: was the name in the old country and how to

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Speaker 1: become Chess Chess c z y z Chez and Ellis Island.

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Speaker 1: They changed my grandfather, but they must have said, but

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Speaker 1: you know, what's your name? You know, get Joseph Chesz

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Speaker 1: Chess now and that was it. That's how it started. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So your your grandfather came seven year before your father,

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Speaker 1: seven years prior with some relatives to Chicago. Guy was

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Speaker 1: a carpenter, uh part of the family from a small

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Speaker 1: village and on the pole it right now it's it's Belarus.

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Speaker 1: He was right where all this trouble is now in Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: Right on the border. It was Poland then. And he

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Speaker 1: came from this small village Muttle, a Jewish little tavern.

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Speaker 1: They had a tavern in town. It was a village

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Speaker 1: on the road. My grandfather was he was a traveling cobbler,

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Speaker 1: shoemaker or whatever. He was fixed and he came to Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and uh he came, and he earned the money to

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Speaker 1: to bring over the family. Seven years later on Thelicitania,

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Speaker 1: that same boat that picked up people from the Titanic.

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Speaker 1: They came from Southampton to Chicago to Walton, New York,

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Speaker 1: Southampton a train from Poland, I guess, and then to

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Speaker 1: Southampton to New York, trained to Chicago. My uncle said

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Speaker 1: when he got to London to the Southampton, he went

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Speaker 1: to the He never had an inside toilet. He didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to flush it. He was the chain in

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Speaker 1: one of those from the ceiling. He didn't know. That

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Speaker 1: was the first toilet he saw. But anyway, they came

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Speaker 1: because they didn't know English. And my grandfather was a

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Speaker 1: stern kind of guy. I heard later in life that

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Speaker 1: he was a child beater with a belt, you know.

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Speaker 1: He used to really punish. But my father beat me

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Speaker 1: with a belt. Soul Yeah, my father beat me up

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Speaker 1: really bad ones. You know how they say that gets inherited.

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Speaker 1: He did really bad one time. Um at Aside from that,

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Speaker 1: so ac my grandfather evolved to a junkyard then he had.

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Speaker 1: Then it was a scrap metal yard, and my uncle

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Speaker 1: said that part of their big business was getting empty

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Speaker 1: old bottles on the street. They'd sell to al Capone's

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Speaker 1: bootleg brewery to rebottle. My uncle said, I'll gave me

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars when I went into the army, said

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Speaker 1: I'll gave you a hundred dollars and pre passing his whorehouse.

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Speaker 1: But we checked it by Sun and I and act impossible.

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Speaker 1: It was like ten years difference. But it was someone

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Speaker 1: that was still that going on in Chicago. It was

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Speaker 1: someone you know. So anyway, across from that junkyard was

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Speaker 1: a black church, the the old kind with an upright piano,

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Speaker 1: tambourines and a bass drum. And they would hear they

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Speaker 1: heard the gospel singing and they were fascinated because my

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Speaker 1: uncle would tell me. My uncle was the guy who

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Speaker 1: told you all the real stories. My father was about business,

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Speaker 1: you know, making sure that you could handle life, not

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Speaker 1: the old stories. But anyway, my uncle said, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: we heard the black singing. And we'd stand there and

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Speaker 1: and we listened, fascinated to the music. And we'd come

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Speaker 1: home late and Zadi would beat us with his belt,

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Speaker 1: the grandfather for being late for dinner. But in the

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Speaker 1: village in Poland, evidently one guy had a wind up

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Speaker 1: petrolla and when you play it, like half the town

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Speaker 1: would come under the window to hear that, you know,

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Speaker 1: to hear music. I don't think they've done sounding like

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Speaker 1: they had any live music in that little village. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so that's how that began. So he uh, he

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Speaker 1: was around black people right from the beginn any before

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Speaker 1: he spoke English, you know, there wasn't you know, there

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Speaker 1: was this that was it was in the ghetto that

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Speaker 1: you know, where the church was, where the junkyard was.

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Speaker 1: And anyway, when he wanted to go on his own,

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Speaker 1: he found out through the grapevine or whatever that if

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Speaker 1: you white guys can you could get a really cheap

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Speaker 1: lease for a storefront in the ghetto if you were white.

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Speaker 1: This is this is your grandfather, my father, my father father. Okay,

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Speaker 1: just to be clear, your your grandfather came your grandfather

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Speaker 1: was working in the junkyard and your father worked there too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my father worked there too, and then um he left.

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Speaker 1: My grandfather closed the junkyard evidently, and he he had

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Speaker 1: earned enough. He bought some Rundown apartment building and he

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Speaker 1: made it into a you know, he had to end

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Speaker 1: of a sort of ghetto apartment buildings, a few of them. Actually,

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Speaker 1: my uncle lived in one. So it wasn't so bad,

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Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So when did the shoe store come

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Speaker 1: before or after he got the store? Oh? No, the

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Speaker 1: shoester came wait after, that's already after high So so

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Speaker 1: he got the store front and keep going. He got

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Speaker 1: the storefront on State south State Street, right on the

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Speaker 1: edge of the Black ghetto where you know, still the ghetto,

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Speaker 1: but then on the south side of Chicago. And he

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Speaker 1: opens cut Right Liquors. And he sees that on weekends,

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Speaker 1: the eagle flies on Friday, that famous blue song. He

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Speaker 1: sees that they're coming in like crazy to buy booze,

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Speaker 1: you know, the party. He loves it. He sees that's

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Speaker 1: a business. He learns black culture, he learns how to

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Speaker 1: talk to the customers. He works by himself, fifteen eighteen

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Speaker 1: hours a day. That's kind of guy. I was always

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Speaker 1: and uh my father owned a liquor store too, same thing,

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Speaker 1: same thing, in the black area of Bridgeport. So he

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Speaker 1: quickly moved to uh two years later to a corner.

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Speaker 1: This is the story. I've heard a couple of versions,

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Speaker 1: but I'll tell you the version that I want to believe.

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Speaker 1: He moved to the seven oh eight club a couple

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Speaker 1: of two years later, maybe nine forty five or six.

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Speaker 1: And I was a little kid then to be or

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Speaker 1: I was born. Okay, but just a couple of questions.

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Speaker 1: World War two is happening, how does he not? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my uncle went, My uncle went off. My uncle went

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Speaker 1: off to the Lucian Islands. My dad could not get drafted.

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Speaker 1: He wore a brace on his left leg, a leather

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Speaker 1: brace from some you know, some village disease, probably polio,

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Speaker 1: rheumatic fever, they don't know. And to get into America,

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Speaker 1: they had to throw the brace overboard and he had

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Speaker 1: to walk straight. They didn't elect cripples in you know,

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Speaker 1: cripples had to go to another line in that era. Um,

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Speaker 1: so he couldn't go to the army. That kept him out.

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Speaker 1: And you know, coincidentally, I've had back surgery had I

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Speaker 1: lost the I lost the nerve in my left leg,

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Speaker 1: and now it's thin like his. It's so bizarre, you know, stranger,

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Speaker 1: stranger things happened, I guess. So I have a thin

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Speaker 1: leg now, but you could only notice it a little

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Speaker 1: bit if he had a bathing suit on. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: drastic anyway. Uh yeah. So then he had the club,

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Speaker 1: the seven oh eight, and there was a jukebox, so

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Speaker 1: not only got the booze, he sees their dropping nickels.

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Speaker 1: That was it wasn't five cents of play Nichols like

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Speaker 1: crazy along with the booze. And he said music booze.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was he was the successory and the

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Speaker 1: guy he felt and he I think he was insecure

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Speaker 1: around white people. Now I think he felt being an immigrant.

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Speaker 1: I think he felt a very symbiotic security with the

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Speaker 1: black people. I always felt that. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we always had black friends there way before man was

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Speaker 1: the first infractional of men in Chicago. Really part, I

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Speaker 1: mean it was, but he I always felt, as I

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Speaker 1: got older and learned about psychology that maybe he was

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Speaker 1: a little insecure, you know, being an immigrant and all that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, he opened the club and then um, he

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Speaker 1: got a light. The next thing wasn't nineteen forty five.

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Speaker 1: I guess he that I read in this well researched

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Speaker 1: book called Spinning Losing to Gold. It's still online. We're

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Speaker 1: really well researched. I guess he got a license for

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Speaker 1: the Macambo Lounge, which was his nightclub. It had a

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Speaker 1: stage Bob's Ribs in the back that he get ribs.

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Speaker 1: It became a live music There was a guy Tips

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Speaker 1: forget his first name, El Tips, played a saxophone. It

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Speaker 1: was a house band bar Long Bar. I was only

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Speaker 1: in there one time. I have my famous Marshall's story.

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Speaker 1: My father takes me there, picks me up at the house. Again.

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Speaker 1: I only was around him if I had to go

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Speaker 1: to work, so he picks We lived at forty four

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Speaker 1: in Drexel, which was on the edge of the third

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Speaker 1: floor walk up. And but it was a Polish Irish

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Speaker 1: Jewish neighborhood. But eight blocks eight blocks north was the

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Speaker 1: black line where the black you know. So that's where

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Speaker 1: the club was a twelve fourteen blocks away the Macambo Lounge.

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Speaker 1: And then my dad picked me up and it was

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Speaker 1: in the night early seven eight o'clock at night. They

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Speaker 1: used to take turns. When my uncle came back from

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Speaker 1: the army, he came back while the club was still

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Speaker 1: working and I walked in with my dad. Hold it.

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Speaker 1: I was little man, you know, and there was a

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Speaker 1: gunshot and he threw me over the bar to my

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Speaker 1: uncle who was the bartending, and my uncle laid me

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Speaker 1: down on these horrible wooden slats that were on the

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Speaker 1: floor and laid on top of me to protect me.

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Speaker 1: To this day, the smell of rotten alcohol and scummed

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Speaker 1: that my face was pressed. Now, I can remember the smell.

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Speaker 1: And that was my first time there. And then, you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever it was, the problem ended and they took me home.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember the details, but I should

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Speaker 1: remember that that he threw me over the counter, you know.

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Speaker 1: Um it was a rough club. One of the oldest employees,

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Speaker 1: this guy Gene Ross, who was held big six ft

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Speaker 1: five guy who was half black and half Cherokee Indian.

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Speaker 1: He loved federal prisons. He always got in trouble for

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Speaker 1: he was a drug but he worked in my father

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Speaker 1: as a bouncer and he the reason he was always around.

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Speaker 1: During that Macombo time. A guy came after my father

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Speaker 1: with a knife and Big Jean jumped in front and

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Speaker 1: took the knife. And after that he was He always

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Speaker 1: had a job when he was out of prison, even

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Speaker 1: when my dad had a DeSoto from that At the

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00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 1: time of the club, my mother was crying. Brand his

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Speaker 1: first new car, or de Soto was was a Christlier

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Speaker 1: car at the time Christlier owned it. Um that Jeane

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Speaker 1: galbas that he had heroin in the glove compartment, and

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Speaker 1: the Feds confiscated the car and my dad freak and

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Speaker 1: Jane of course went to prison again. I saw him

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Speaker 1: all the way to when I worked with the Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stones when we tore Chicago. He found Jesus. He became

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Speaker 1: a religious guy. But yeah, he found me. During the concert,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. I went to the sidelines and

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Speaker 1: saw him and had people, you know, he was big guy.

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Speaker 1: They five Marshal Chress. Yeah he was good. But that

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Speaker 1: was so that. Yeah, he had the club and then uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone came into they came into record. I

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00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 1: think Aristocrat was owned by many people, and he just

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Speaker 1: you know again and perked up. He went from the

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Speaker 1: liquor store to the corner tevan to a nightclub. Now,

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Speaker 1: like black people music, record business. What's the record business?

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Speaker 1: And like my just typically like my father, he became

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Speaker 1: a salesman to learn it, to see what it was about.

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Speaker 1: And coincidentally one of the artists do it. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a black label. It was seventy eight and it

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Speaker 1: was they had folk music, all kinds of different artists,

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Speaker 1: but one of the artists was Muddy Waters. At that time,

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Speaker 1: he was a truck driver as well. His name was

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Speaker 1: McKinley morgan Field. But he was already well known from

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Speaker 1: uh Alan Lomax, the famous document. Well, he was the

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Speaker 1: guy recorded all the music in the South. He had

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Speaker 1: recorded Muddy for historical recording from the cotton fields. What

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Speaker 1: was the name of that plantation? He he actually lived

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Speaker 1: on a plantation. Used to tell me he'd catch fish

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Speaker 1: for forget a nickel of fish, and Hollywood, you know,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stories. His first guitar strings around the

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Speaker 1: wall of the cabin that he ran strings the strum um.

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Speaker 1: He was the closest of the artist to me because

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Speaker 1: he was my father's true friend. They grew together. He said,

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Speaker 1: there was a radio show when my dad died because

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00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: we owned a radio station and w v O N

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Speaker 1: the Voice of the Negro, the first modern black radio

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00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: station in America, first black news director, etcetera, etcetera. But

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Speaker 1: Muddy said, uh yeah, Leonard, Leonard Chess was a true friend.

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Speaker 1: He would have said on me chest and I would

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Speaker 1: have said, Leonard made me. You know, they had this,

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Speaker 1: you know, and these were he hits. Ten thousand, twelve

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00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,400
Speaker 1: thousand was a giant Blue said, this is not million sellers,

295
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 1: so miss and screwed by people as time goes on.

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Speaker 1: You know, uh, two cents the publishing was two cents royalty,

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Speaker 1: you know, um uh, you know it was a whole

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Speaker 1: other thing. There were no giant hits then. The first

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Speaker 1: TiO we had was the ninet with when rock and

300
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,439
Speaker 1: roll broke with Chuck Berry and Roddaly. That was a

301
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: big year. That was my thirteen bar mitzvah it hits

302
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 1: first money started rolling in and everything changed in my life.

303
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,920
Speaker 1: I told that, I told that I took my son,

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Speaker 1: who's the third generation record man, Jo Marches. He's uh

305
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,199
Speaker 1: the thrill to see that he carry he's carrying it

306
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,440
Speaker 1: on on his own as well. But uh, he wanted

307
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: to meet Chuck Berry. So he he was on his

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00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 1: farewell through and he was in his eighties. He was

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00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 1: playing at BB King's Club in Chicago. So I took

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00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: him and Chuck and I were friends. I was his

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Speaker 1: road manager when he came out of prison. You know,

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00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: I knew him well. So I took my son backstage

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Speaker 1: and I said to him, you know, it was like

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00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: an emotional thing. I don't know, it brings up my

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00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: father and everything. So I said to Chuck, you know

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Speaker 1: I never told you this, but man, n five, when

317
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,679
Speaker 1: I was thirteen, you change you. Man changed my life.

318
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 1: I got a Schwin three speed bicycle. We moved out

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Speaker 1: of that walk up apartment. Everything changed, you know, with

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00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: maybe Lane nineteen fifty five. And he said, what are

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00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 1: you talking about? He took my hand and his eyes

322
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 1: were watering up. Just what are you talking about? You

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00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: changed mine in ninety five. What a what a beautiful moment.

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Speaker 1: And my son heard that, you know it was beautiful. Yeah. Okay,

325
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: So let's your father becomes a salesman. When he's a salesman,

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00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 1: he sells the club. He's out of the club already. No,

327
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: not out of the club, though I can now that

328
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 1: everyone's dead. No one's gonna assue me. No. In nineteen

329
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 1: and nine. In nineteen four fifty, right before he bought

330
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 1: Chess Records, strangely enough, off the club burned down with

331
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 1: a really nice insurance policy, and my uncle against there

332
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: you had those motherfucker's. The firemen were passing out cases

333
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: of liquor. They weren't fighting the fucking fire. And we

334
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,719
Speaker 1: didn't say a word. And then I actually remember my

335
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 1: dad didn't trust banks. I never remember. It's vague, but

336
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. Maybe you know it's just for color.

337
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 1: I don't think. He took a cashed the check from

338
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: the insurance and brought it home in cash, and it

339
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 1: was all laid out on the bed hundred dollar bills

340
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: and that's what he used to buy to buy them out,

341
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 1: to buy Chess records them a combo down. So first

342
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 1: it was aristocratic records. Tell me how it ends up

343
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,120
Speaker 1: becoming Chess. He bought him out here after two years

344
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 1: of being a salesman and wanting to go on the

345
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,679
Speaker 1: record business. He they offered the one of the the

346
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 1: one of the women of Evelyn, her name was Evelyn,

347
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 1: who was one of the owners from the beginning. She

348
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 1: had been married twice. I I had a feeding even

349
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 1: my father and her had just my own idea from

350
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,719
Speaker 1: that that they had a thing. But she ended up

351
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: getting married for a second time or so I wanted

352
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 1: to get out of the business, wanted to sell it.

353
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 1: They wanted to sell it, and so he inherited that

354
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: the late you know, he bought it because Mighty Waters

355
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: was on it. You know, he bought it whatever. I

356
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 1: don't know the cost or anything. And then they renamed

357
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: it Chess Records. Yeah, no, they renamed it because they

358
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: had My father had one of the record pressers for

359
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 1: Aristocrat was the guy out of Memphis, one of the

360
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 1: first pressing plants in America named Buster. Williams. Bussy used

361
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 1: to fly up. He he flew a twin cessna Southern

362
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 1: gentleman he was. But somehow him and my father had

363
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: this great relationship. And Buster is the one when my

364
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: dad told him, you you're gonna you'll be my presser.

365
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: I'm buying Aristocrat. I want to change your name. He suggested,

366
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: why don't you just call it Chess Records, and that

367
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: that was from Buster, and he he was a family

368
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: friend with We were always in the pressing business. Tool

369
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: from him. He was in we were We we had

370
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: such a unique thing, and we'll talk later. But at

371
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: the end we had this eight story building that had

372
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: three studios, full record pressing plan, injection pressing, printing, and plating.

373
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: You could come in, you could make it. It has

374
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: never been something like that. It was the old Wallen

375
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: Sack recorder building that in Chicago, and it was a

376
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: manufacturing building, and we we had this fabulous, unbelievable with

377
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,479
Speaker 1: an elevator. They had a rooftop sauna where they were

378
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: bringing their girlfriends. They had like a whole rooftop sauna, barbershop,

379
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: all you know. The the guys who were built the building,

380
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: and we bought that building so it was all all

381
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: under one roof. But we always the problem with the independents.

382
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: There were weren't a lot of independent pressing plans. So

383
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 1: if when the independent record business broke, if you if

384
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: five labels had hits it one time, you couldn't always

385
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: get your product. And so owning a plant was important.

386
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: My father thought that was an important thing, and we

387
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: could press for the other guys when they were even hits.

388
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: But we started with a very small plant. I actually

389
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: worked to press when I was sixteen. I was raised

390
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: to be a record man a record while my um

391
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: I I've been told that. Uh. I went on the

392
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: road the first time when I was thirteen, through the

393
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 1: South my dad. We arrived in New Orleans, I met

394
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: caused the famous Cosmo. My dad gave me a ten

395
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: dollar but he said, I'll see it tonight. I tell

396
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: my wife that your mother that you wander around New

397
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: Orleans at ten ten dollars was like fifty then too. Yeah.

398
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 1: I went to three movies eight like a pig. I

399
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: did it. He ran and I was always an independence soul.

400
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: He always you know, let's thread a few let's spread

401
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: a few needles. You've got in business with the guy

402
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: in Memphis? Was he partners in the press? Buster just

403
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 1: on the pressing plant, but he would have been. He

404
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: was going to be the press, our press for the

405
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: whole country. Okay, So what was your friends from the aristocrat?

406
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: He pressed the aristocrat. So what were the first records?

407
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: And then what was the first big hit? The first

408
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: chess session? I actually went again. I wanted I wanted

409
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: to be around my dad. We well before we built

410
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 1: our own studios in Chicago, had one famous great recording

411
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: was called Universal Recording. They ended up becoming Bill Putnam.

412
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: Maybe he opened this became famous making studio equipment, limits

413
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: and stuff for the studios. The first was Gene Emmons,

414
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: My foolish Heart, I have a friend here on eight

415
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: my heaven um. I slept on three metal folding chairs.

416
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: My dad took me to the studio to see that.

417
00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: That was the first one, and it was chess for fifty.

418
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: Karlov was their first department in America. He was superstitious

419
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: about ship and that I inherited because when I did this,

420
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: I had my own label, the psychedelic label to dead concept.

421
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: The first record I did was three twelve, my father's birthday.

422
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: We were always and you know again the black early

423
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: black culture. You know, it came from African man. It

424
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: was voodoo, mojo man, all that. And my father very

425
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: much was exposed to the whole kind of you know, superstition.

426
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a sidebar since we're talking about it.

427
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: When I was maybe in high school seventeen, when Buddy Guy,

428
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: the famous blues guy now was a studio guy. He

429
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: was going back to Mississippi and I asked him to

430
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: bring me a mojo so I could get girls. And

431
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 1: he brought me this little pink bag. It smelled like

432
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: the cheapest Woolworth perfuman and he had like pig bristles

433
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: sticking out of it, like bristles, you know, and you

434
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: penned see the white T shirt. Everyone were I've pinned

435
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: it when I went to work, you know, in that air,

436
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: if you're lucky to touch the brass draft, you know

437
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: it didn't work, you know. Okay, so you're first, you've

438
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: touched the top of the rasio. You you were bragging

439
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: into your buddies. You know. So your father and your

440
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: uncle are producing these records too, right, learning how to produce? Yeah? Producing? Yeah,

441
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: So they didn't know what they were doing. They just

442
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: wann't turned on what they were doing. But know if

443
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: they didn't keep things moving, it would collapse. How do

444
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: I know that because in my my I produced my

445
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: first album in nineteen sixty two, I was twenty years old.

446
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: When I was eighteen or nineteen, I was worked. I

447
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: worked always every summer. Um. I just loved it. I

448
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: wanted being there. I loved it. I loved it. If

449
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: my dad said to me, they used to record the studio,

450
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: wasn't upon floor, my dad would say, he said, go

451
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: up to the studio. I have to go to the

452
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: I have to go to a meeting. Not your uncle's

453
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: not here. I said, do what you know? He said,

454
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: just tell the motherfucker's to take another one. I said

455
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: what he said, Look, if you don't tell him to

456
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: take another one, they're gonna sit around talking about pussy

457
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: and jobs. Nothing's gonna get done. He said, one of

458
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: those takes is gonna be a mother. He said, we

459
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: said motherfucker a lot in my family. That one of

460
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: those takes is gonna be a motherfucker. And uh, that's

461
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 1: what I did. So that's how he learned. Do what

462
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying, Take another one, take another one.

463
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: But another thing I learned from my father. I still

464
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: do it today. I'm producing a record right now with

465
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: a partner. Surround yourself, make symbiotic relationships of stuff you

466
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: don't know, like great, it'll be better. So he always

467
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: you have to. He surrounded himself with people who knew

468
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: music and then watched and learned from them. The first

469
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: guy that was the closest was his name is Willie Dixon,

470
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: the blues writer, producer, bass player. He'd get all the

471
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: bands together. He would co produced really all those early

472
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: sessions with my father, but little by little, my father

473
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: learned how to produce. What do you really learned was

474
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: what made records sell because we weren't making art. We

475
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: were making singles and everyone artists, all of us, wanted hits.

476
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: It was all about making money. Artists didn't care about art.

477
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: Then they all wanted to hit. They came to Chess

478
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: because they wanted We got radio play. We paid off

479
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: this jockeys. We got hits, you know. So you know

480
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: my father learned. I mean, he was very responsible. We

481
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: had what we had. His nickname, he was very responsible

482
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: for so much in rock and roll. Um. His studio

483
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: nickname was the foot Stomper. That's because he wanted that

484
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: strong backbeat. He was stomped his foot. He even played

485
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: bass drum on blues record once to show him what

486
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: he wants. So when I Chuck Berry died, you know,

487
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: eight or ten years ago, his wife asked me to

488
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: speak at his funeral in St. Louis, I said, of

489
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: course I knew him, well, everyone else is dead really

490
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: that knew him directly. I went and it was amazing,

491
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: like five people in this big auditorium and they treat

492
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: him like Mozart in St. Louis. I mean he's very famous.

493
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: Um and uh so that I did. I did my

494
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: spear with speech. The governor was in line with me.

495
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: This was a major thing. His family was all sitting

496
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: there and nodding, and you know me when I was

497
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: speaking telling stories. So then there was a break, Uh

498
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: what to pull out the casket? He had like twenty

499
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: all white Cadillacs with motorcycles. It was amazing. And I'm

500
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: standing was a hot sunny day and I see this

501
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: like I could tell he was well dressed. Kelly was

502
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: a Jewish guy leaning. I'm leaning on the same post.

503
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: We're waiting, and he says, who are you? And I said,

504
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: Marshall said, oh, I know, you know your father. I'm

505
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: Chuck lawyer, you know. And he tells me you know

506
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: all of Chuck and this lawyer. But then another guy,

507
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: a black man, came up to me and he said,

508
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: Mr Chess. He said, I gotta tell you something you

509
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: probably don't know. I heard you speaking there. You know

510
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: your daddy I was there. I went with Chuck when

511
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: he made maybe leading in Chicago. You know it was

512
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: your daddy who kept pushing for the beat and it

513
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: was your daddy who turned up to echo. Your daddy

514
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: did it. And I I never heard that or known that.

515
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: I knew the chess our music was a tremendous part

516
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: of the foundation of rock and roll. I mean, it's

517
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: the fact, that's a great legacy. I know that for

518
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: a fact that that's true. But I never knew my

519
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: dad was that he was the big he was the

520
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: beat and that and no, we did. We had a

521
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: homemade echo chamber. It was in the basement. I used

522
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: to have to go down there because of rats making noise,

523
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: just like you would. Because it was a long sewer pipe.

524
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: It was all very in ventive stuff, man, the beginning

525
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 1: of creativity making records. We wanted these sounds, just like

526
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: like a lot of reggae has it. We wanted this

527
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: black audience then love these unique sounds, different things, echo,

528
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: big beats, loud of guitar. That was a very it

529
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: was it made it sell more, that's a better way

530
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: to tell you. And so we had this long clay

531
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: sewer pipe with a chief speaker at one end and

532
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: the mic on the other and they would send the

533
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: signal down to the speaker. It would go through the

534
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: mic be picked up by the mic and sent back up.

535
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: That was the echo. And then there were so they

536
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: were used to be noises and uh they'd say, there's rats,

537
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: go down there. I had to go down. I was

538
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: was get the coffee. I was. That's I was the

539
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: coffee boy. To that was one of my first my

540
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: first job. I should tell you that story. Um So

541
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: I went down there and I see all these old

542
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: boxes and I opened up one, you know a stack

543
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: of four or five boxes, and it's full of seventy

544
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 1: eight Louis Armstrong on the leavel. I go back up

545
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: to my uncle. I could never talk about. My father

546
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: went to even disgust it with me. I said, Phil,

547
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: what's the Louis Armstrong? Oh ship? When times were hard,

548
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: we had to do some ship. I guess they were bootlegs,

549
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: you know that to pay the pet the cell, they

550
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: must have, you know, done something. They weren't original pressings,

551
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: that's for sure, But that that's a that's a true thing, man,

552
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: that they always wanted to change the sound and make

553
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: it better. We had our own mastering. Our studio was

554
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: built on springs. It was brilliant. You know, all those

555
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: like the rolling stones when they came to Chicago. I

556
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: set that up in nine you know, because I got

557
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: to know them well for seven years. I hung out

558
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: with him nightly. They would say they thought play they

559
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: wanted to record a chess that that's why I set

560
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: it up there. Manager Andrew Olam called me. I got

561
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: the call because he had a foreign accent. That's why

562
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: I'd already been to England um to set up chess internationally.

563
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: That was another one of my early jobs. But anyway,

564
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: aside from that, Michael said, use them. The stone S

565
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: thought if they recorded at the Chess studio, they sound

566
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: like a chess record. Of course that's not the truth.

567
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: It's the playing. Yeah, the studio is something. Actually, they

568
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: wrote and pre produced Satisfaction and that's then they finished

569
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: the recording in l A on that tour in But

570
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: that was my first experience with them and seeing those

571
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: English groups when they came to Chicago. Okay, so let's go,

572
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: let's go bork. Okay, So your father's making these different records,

573
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,719
Speaker 1: how does he go into and how does he go

574
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: into rock and his Chuck Berry the first person he

575
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: got I got it, I got it ready, here we go.

576
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: Chuff Berry wanted to be a blue singer, you know.

577
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: And he came up to Chicago with his wife. You

578
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: need no his wife, that muddy wife. He came to

579
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: Chicago with his wife that I don't forget what her

580
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: name is. He came to Chicago with his wife. They

581
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: want to hear Muddy Waters. He was a giant Muddy

582
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: Waters fan in the club. And after that gig, he

583
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: went to Muney says, look, I made a tape. What

584
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: do I do to get on a record? He says,

585
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: go see letter Chess tomorrow morning. Tell the Muddy Waters name.

586
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what he did. And he went and

587
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: waked in the morning. He said, Muddy Waters told me

588
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: to see you, Mr Chess. My dad went in and

589
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: played the tape and it was two sides. It was

590
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: a cut named I'd a Read and and one called

591
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: we We Ours. We We Ours was a straight twelve

592
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: bar blues like Muddy Waters would sing. We Were Ours

593
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: was a unique different song which perked my father up.

594
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: It was called I'd a Red My Fithers. I don't

595
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: like the title, and I'm not sure about the lyric,

596
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: the way it sounds the guitar to beat. You got

597
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: something different there let's make a deal, but go and

598
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: rewrite the song. And there happened to be one of

599
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: the girls that had lipstick or makeup called Mabel Lean Cosmetics.

600
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: It was a company called Mabel Line. You probably remember that.

601
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: And uh they looked. He called Mabel Line and he

602
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: was back within two weeks and it were written Maybe Line,

603
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: called it Maybe Lane. They recorded it, and that was

604
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: in and he went. So all the road trips were

605
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: done by car. No planes wouldn't have the money. Was

606
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 1: a small company, was blues company. He was on the road.

607
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: He started in New York and he was gonna work

608
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: his way back to Chicago. At that time, the king

609
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: of radio in New York was the disjecty named Alan Freed.

610
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: Everyone knew about Allan Freed. And it was also the

611
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: time of massive payola. You know, uh, the independent record

612
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: business would never have even developed without payola. I mean

613
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: payola is what allowed anyone to make a record and

614
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: check it out and put it on the radio. See

615
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: of the phone ring of people wanted to buy it.

616
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 1: So anyway, my dad goes and plays Allen Freed, Maybe Lane.

617
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: Allen Freed. Hears it. It's something special and different. He

618
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: coined the word rock and roll. That was all part

619
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: of the Chuck Barry Alan create Alan Kline. Instead of

620
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: giving him money, he became the writer of Maybe Lane.

621
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: He went on as writer that was his and that

622
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 1: night and my dad got in this car or drive

623
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: back to Cleveland. Right one day drive, Alan played Maybe

624
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: Lene NonStop three hours, over and over, broke the records.

625
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: My dog get My dad got to Cleveland. He calls

626
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 1: my uncle in Chicago. Because they didn't have cell phones

627
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: in or anything or internet caused my uncle and he says,

628
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: what's up. What the fund is going on? It's going

629
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: crazy here. The phone rings every two seconds. This Alan

630
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: freed Maybellen. It's broke. We gotta hit Landard, we gotta

631
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: hit And of course he rushed back to Chicago and

632
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: began to spread it. By then we had independent distributors,

633
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: you know, all the indie labels. There was a whole

634
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: group of independent distributors all across the country. It's so

635
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: funny when I hear that Kanye West bullshit anti sembatic.

636
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: Everyone I knew had there was all Jewish names. I

637
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: could give you a list of thirty, you know, you know,

638
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: they were all these Jewish guys like my father and uncle,

639
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: you know who who who? Just like the early movie guys,

640
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, they send something about this music and all

641
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 1: that um. But coincidentally, in nineteen fifty five, a couple

642
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: of months later, Bo Diddley came in, who was the

643
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: Chicago street artist. My uncle heard that tape again and

644
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: put out Bo Diddley. So we had these two major

645
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: pre foundational rock and roll hits in nineteen fifty and

646
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: like I say, my life changed. Our whole family's life changed.

647
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: And I must say the world began to change, maybe

648
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: because rock and roll change the world, and my family

649
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with it. And you know,

650
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: I never realized that Bob Krasnell, you know that that

651
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: was you know. Of course Bob once sold me so

652
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 1: don't you know yours the first family of rock and roll?

653
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: He said, you don't even know that, and I said,

654
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: you're right. Bob and I had taken much rooms together.

655
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: We were like when he had we had uh, he

656
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: had Blue Thumb, Blue Thumb Records. Bob was the one

657
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: who steered me to the Rolling Stones. He wanted to

658
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: join me with me to sign the Rolling Stones. That's

659
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: how I found out that they were available, you know,

660
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: they wanted them to do something. And I told Bob,

661
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: I said, after tripping with you, you know, motherfucker, we

662
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: could never work together. Our egos. That was that era

663
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: of you know, our egos are way too big. I said,

664
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: will you give me Mick Jagger's phone number? He gave

665
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: me his home phone number. That's how it all began

666
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: for me through Bob Krasnow. Okay, but let's let's go back.

667
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the blues era. Your father's cutting everybody. Well,

668
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: it starts with Muddy Waters. Who becomes who has hits?

669
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: I feel like going home? They were big hits, you

670
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: know not. I mean again, there was a radio station

671
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: in the South w l a c H fifty thou

672
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: watch white disc jockeys, but they played blues black music.

673
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: It would cover thirteen states at night, all through the South.

674
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: So you you know, we were we were having like,

675
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: you know, blues hits. I'd say the biggest record thirty

676
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: would be a giant, giant blues hit, like a million

677
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: man sellar. But yeah, we were having hits. But Muddy

678
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: Waters and all the airplay put Chess on the map

679
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: with every other blues artist who wanted to be on

680
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: the radio and they it became a magnet. And then

681
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: how and then and then at the same time we

682
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: had a great deal with Sam Philip who own Sun

683
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: who eventually had Sun Records with Alvis, but before that

684
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: he was probably one of the first record producers of

685
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, white record pruces of black musical will in

686
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: my father. At the same time, he sent us Howling Wolf,

687
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, and then we had Hollowing Wolf. And then

688
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: we had another big hit called which they say is

689
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 1: the first rock and roll record, called Rocket eighty eight

690
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: by Jackie Brinston and who was the saxophone player for

691
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 1: Ike Turner's orchestra. I con Tina Turner. It wasn't ten then,

692
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: just like and we had that yet, Uh, Rocket eighty eight.

693
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the way those cars two tone paint.

694
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: That was the big ghetto car because it was the

695
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: first with two tone. Yeah, and uh, don't be late,

696
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: come on baby in my Rocket eighty eight, you know. Okay,

697
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: So what were those old blues guys like and what

698
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: was their man? You're asking me that everyone asked me that.

699
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: Here's what they were like, Marshall, Did you get me yet?

700
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: Did you dick get checked out. Yet they ever asked me.

701
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: They only cared about it if I ever discovered sex.

702
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: I was twelve, thirteen years old, fourteen. They didn't talk

703
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: about business or music with me at all. Zero I

704
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: have you get And I was, like I said, at

705
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: that time, I was the coffee boy. I have to

706
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: walk to get before we had people and coffee machines

707
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: and offices, he had to go out to get it.

708
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: In that area, they had shitty cardboard cups with these

709
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: horrible paper bags that would leak, they disintegrate. My hands

710
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: would be burning, you know. But what were they like?

711
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: They were great muddy waters. Just to call me his

712
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: white grandson, his wife guenivis to semi fried. He'd bring

713
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: me fried chicken and the thickest illuminum foil. Then was

714
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: sick man. I can remember that he'd bring me that,

715
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: you know, money, money was. I was the closest the money.

716
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: He first time I met money was. I always told

717
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: this story. But you're already a still probably like it. Um,

718
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: I might it must have been. I must have been.

719
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to think. Twelve years old, we

720
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: had moved from the third floor are with blues moved

721
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: up from the third floor walk up to a row

722
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: house thirty six South Gates. Um on the south side,

723
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: should call my uncle lived two blocks away. I'm on

724
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: the front yard and literally with a house next to

725
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 1: a cattle that pulls up and this guy comes out

726
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: and he's got the bright green, iridescent green suit with

727
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: hair looked like with a foot high, like who the fuck?

728
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: You know, as a kid of you, what is this?

729
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: You know? Um, I had seen black people, but this

730
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 1: was duked out and the car and I looked down

731
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: and his shoes blew me away. They were like pinto

732
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: pony hair of the fur of a course or cow.

733
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: And you looked at me and say, you must be

734
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: young chess. You'll pappy home. That's how I met Muddy

735
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: waters Man, and uh, he came over again advice money.

736
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wasn't in, you know, I don't

737
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: know what went on, you know, I I was dragging

738
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: around and I didn't when they were I never saw.

739
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: I went on the road with my father, you know,

740
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: I saw he was paying people off, but I didn't

741
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: know what it even was. You know, I sort of

742
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: was just I just was. It was all a natural thing.

743
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: And I always wanted to make records like my dad.

744
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: I had a chance when I was twenty in nineteen

745
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: sixty two, I got to go to Muscle Beach Uh

746
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: in Carolina, Muscle shoals Uh and recorded Bowls Beach Party

747
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: with a lot of desktop was there wasn't a remote

748
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: recording land. Me and the sales manager, Max Cooperstein, we

749
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: co produced it. And in the middle of that, I'll

750
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: give you an example of how it was, so you

751
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: want to know how it was. Um Bow Dolly had

752
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: Chester Simmons. That was like this road manager we recorded

753
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: in the middle of the second set. Jerome Green, the

754
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: Morocco player, was the original guy when they played on

755
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: the streets in Chicago, so they didn't have to carry

756
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: a drum. Was Bow, didley and guitar. And this guy

757
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: Jerome with Moroccas. He jumped off the stage and all

758
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: these white kids started dancing around them. Twenty minutes later

759
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: cops came him in with German shepherds shut us down

760
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: and said, let them white kids dance with your niggas.

761
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: He's I lock you jus up. No one will even

762
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: nowhere to find you, you know after exactly right, And

763
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: but we recorded enough to put out that album and

764
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: it was stopped. Okay, back to the hotel, keep going hotel.

765
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: It's a good story. Then we went back to this

766
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: whole beach hotel, oh Wood once from that era. You know,

767
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: we we were planning to go earlier. We shared rooms

768
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: in those days. One was having separate rooms, me and Max,

769
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: and then the next room was a honeymoon couple. And

770
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: he showed me out of your hold one of those

771
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 1: old time water glasses against the wall you could hear.

772
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: So I had my experience of watching people, hearing people

773
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: fuck for the first time on that trip, as well

774
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: as being called a dirty jew nigger lover, you know,

775
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: excuse my language with the N word. Okay, But so

776
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: your life anges with then what happened and and bo diddly,

777
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: then what happened together? Did it? And what happened with

778
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: the company and what happens with you? Then the company exploded,

779
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we had money to produce. Morris

780
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: signed more, expand more. They wanted to expand into LPs,

781
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: into jazz all that, you know, little by little, UH

782
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: we wanted to get into jazz. LP was really invented out. Um.

783
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: It started with uh Dave We We had this guy,

784
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: Dave Usher was like a jazz fanatic friend of my

785
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: uncle's from Detroit. He produced stuff. Then there was a

786
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: famous magazine and chic call it called down Beat. The

787
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: Jazz was the major jazz magazine. We hired the editor,

788
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: Jack Tracy, figured he knew everyone, and that's how we started.

789
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: And the blues are all, believe it or not. The

790
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: blues were always recorded in the daytime, but we had

791
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: the empty studio at night. So Jack, we would we

792
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: we we would work it out. Everyone knew they could

793
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: pick up some extra cash after the gig at Chess

794
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: and that's why we put out such great The first

795
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: role of Kirk Elvin, James Moody, Uh God, Dorothy Ashby

796
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: and Jazz Harve I'm and Jamal Ramsey Lewis Wow because

797
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: it was relaxed, it was at night. A lot of

798
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: it was real jazz. They just wanted the money. They

799
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: made it up. It was totally improvised a lot and

800
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: one of my early jobs was Mr. Samuel's. We were

801
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: we did union sessions. You got paid for a three

802
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: hour session. I was one of my because I got

803
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: all the dirty jobs, getting coffee, going late early in

804
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: the six in the morning at the pressing plant. Um.

805
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: I also had to go meet Mr Samuel's, the union

806
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: guy from when the checks were signed. They had to

807
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: make sure they signed the publishing and all that before

808
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: they got the check. So I used to go at night. Yeah,

809
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: let's talk about the business. You know, certainly Atlantic wasn't

810
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: paying royalties. What was the royalty situation at Chess? It was?

811
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: It was, it was no what was it? You know?

812
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: I always got to ask that because there's such a

813
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 1: lot of the you know, Chest ripped off artists. Every

814
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: the Indians ripped off some did um. And I don't

815
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: believe my father ever overtly ripped off anyone because of

816
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: the way he raised me. You know, I mean I

817
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: I that's not even I was, you know, he just

818
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: was never even part of it. I uh. But there

819
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: were no entertainment lawyers that came later. We had a

820
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 1: one page contract, publishing on one side, recording on the other,

821
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: one piece of paper. Yeah, um um. We had no computers.

822
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: Everything was manual, even order taking every you know, it's

823
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: so confused now with modern technology. When I worked at Chess,

824
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: everyone had one of those little pads with carbon paper.

825
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: And the phone would ring in a thirteen hundred st Louis,

826
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: you just yelled your handing in the carbon paper. I

827
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: saw my dad once. This is way after. This is later,

828
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: um in sixties six sixty five. I saw my dad

829
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: the only time once of reviewing the royalty statements with

830
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: the bookkeeper and he would bring in this long you

831
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: know stacks, the white paper and the Dells blue option

832
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: prepared a big hit then called, oh what a night.

833
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: And he looked at the Dells. It was day was like,

834
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 1: you know, eighteen thousand bucks, I mean, you know, not millions.

835
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: And he looked at Muddies. Blass wasn't prove when blues

836
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: were dead, Black people wanted motown, you know r and

837
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: b uh. We don't want our grandfather's music. And the

838
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: white jees hadn't discovered the historical ones, you know. Um anyway,

839
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: and I looked at my dad, but I heard my

840
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: dad looked and he held up money and he said

841
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: to Ted it was the big take five grand off

842
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: of the thousand foot it on Muddy. That's my last

843
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: story on royalties. That was my father. Okay, so you

844
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: graduate from high school and then what happens with you?

845
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 1: I go to college and I become the chess promotion

846
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: man in Denver, Colorado. So you go to college in Denver. Yeah,

847
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to you know, I wanted to

848
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: go to u C. L A. Or USC. I did

849
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: not get accepted. I wanted the West Coast bad. I

850
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: love cars, I loved girls. I loved California. I've been there.

851
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: New we had the first black record executive, Paul Gayton.

852
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: Paul Gayton was from New Orleans. He was a famous

853
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: New Orleans band leader and he started out playing for

854
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: the most famous Italian mafioso in a horrorse and then

855
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 1: he became a a big band leader, well known during

856
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: that era. And my dad and him hit it off

857
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 1: and he became our first guy in New Orleans when

858
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: we did all this Clarence Frogman, Henry Ain't got no home,

859
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: all our Cajun kind of music. But then he moved

860
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: to Cali, Fornia with his wife and he drove a

861
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: Rolls Royce. He lived on top of the hill with

862
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: icon Tina Turner's house, and he opened our little office,

863
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: the chess office in l A. So I wanted to

864
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: work with him, but I didn't get accepted. So After

865
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: two years at Denver, I applied to USC and got in,

866
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: and I moved to Hollywood and my dad was having

867
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: an affair with the hostess at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel.

868
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: Wait Wait, Wait, Wait Wait was an apartment building behind

869
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: the ground Chinese Theater that was for hookers, and we

870
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: never knew that, and he she got me a department

871
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: there had sparkle in the ceilings, and that's where I lived.

872
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,479
Speaker 1: H I lived behind the Chinese Theater for my first

873
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: year of college at USC and worked out with Paul

874
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: Gayton in the office. So did you graduate? No, I

875
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: didn't graduate. I never wanted to go to college. My

876
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: dad didn't give his ship. He said, just go learn

877
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: what you can for the business. I had a radio

878
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: show at USC, and it took plastic engineering to learn

879
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: about record pressing, marketing. Um. But I would have stayed.

880
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: But I never did it in a proper way. I

881
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: would have probably had it gone five or six years,

882
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: because I just took what interested me. We didn't care.

883
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: He didn't really care. I didn't have a push from

884
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: my mother or father about not like a modern way.

885
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: I pushed my kids, you know, But I didn't have

886
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: the push but then in my senior year, a fourth year,

887
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: second year at USC, my dad got horribly beat up. Evidently, Uh,

888
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: the mafia tried to move in on Chess Records in

889
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: Chicago and m he refused and got out of it

890
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: with help from Morris Levy. You know that is of

891
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: course Roulette Records. Okay, well Morris. Anyway, they knew each other.

892
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: We all all the indies were like part of the

893
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: wild bunch, you know. Morris knew the Chicago mafia to

894
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: his guys. But they were upset that he got that

895
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: they couldn't get a piece of chess. And two guys

896
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: they called him up that there was a fire, and

897
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: he went down there at night and two guys he

898
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: fought them with a heart condition and he was horribly

899
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: beat up. He couldn't even go out of the house

900
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: for weeks. His face was life came back, but they

901
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: called me and said he he lived, but he was

902
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: horribly beat up. And I said, I'm coming home, and

903
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: I got in my car and I drove to Chicago

904
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: and started working in chess records. That was it. So

905
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 1: that's how you dropped out of college when your father

906
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: was good. Yeah, I wanted to go home. I didn't

907
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: want to go to college anyway, but I like the lay.

908
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: I loved it. I love living there. I had a

909
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 1: house eventually in Benedict Canyon. Um uh, you know, I

910
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: I love working with Paul gat And that was a

911
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,959
Speaker 1: fabulous experience, you know, working with him, like little Richard

912
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: would come by the office, all kinds of he was.

913
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: It was just he was just a brilliant guy. And

914
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about life from him. And he

915
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: was a brilliant musician. Um. And he used to come

916
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: to our house, stay at our house, play the white

917
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: Jewish grand piano and the suburbs and we'd all go around.

918
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: I used to play. I started playing. He got me.

919
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: I was a trumpet player. That's a whole other musicians story.

920
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: Um can I can I go story? So I uh,

921
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: I watched, I mean, kid, I watched From Here to Eternity,

922
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: you know that movie, of course? In this movie, of course,

923
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: and when the guy played taps with a bugle, I

924
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: got moved, emotionally moved, and I wanted to be do that.

925
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: And I joined the boy Scouts and I became a bugler.

926
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 1: I was thirty fourteen, just turned fourteen, and my dad

927
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: thought the boy boy Scouts were whacked. I could tell

928
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: he didn't like it. And he went to one thing

929
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: with me there one father and something. It wasn't his thing.

930
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 1: But so I learned how to play readily, and the chart,

931
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: a few things, taps and now then I started in

932
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: high school. I was fourteen South Chard High School in Chicago,

933
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: still living on the south Side before we moved to

934
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: the suburbs. Um and I began to take trumpet lessons.

935
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: I had a Martin trumpet. I used to walk on

936
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: the rail I was just enamera. I joined the high

937
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: school band. No before that was my eighth grade. I

938
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: used to walk on the railroad tracks. I practiced. I

939
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: could play Lady of Spain. I adore you all these

940
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: oh my Papa, I could make you cry. Man. I

941
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: could play it. I loved it, and uh then I

942
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: we I went my freshman year before he was the

943
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: suburb south Shore High School. I joined the band. I

944
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: could read and read music. I learned how to read,

945
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: you know, not like the arranger. But I could play

946
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: my little parts, and uh, I loved it. And uh.

947
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: I was at Chess Records working in My father said,

948
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: come on into the office. Is my uncle, my father

949
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: and my grandfather ZD. And they all said, uh, you know,

950
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: we don't think you should become a musician. I said,

951
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: what we're in the music business, Marshall is the worst.

952
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: They get forty bucks a session. You'll never be able

953
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 1: to have a supportive family. It's a horrible They knew

954
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: from you know, hiring guys. It's not a good thing.

955
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 1: We know that you love it. We think we think,

956
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: you know, like it was like like a mafia that

957
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: you should come in the record business. Come in the

958
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: record business. That's your business. You'll be around music, you

959
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: can learn how to be a producer. And I of

960
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: course said yes, you know totally. I mean that was

961
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: like the committee, you know. I said, yes, I still

962
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: have a trumpet, and I still so. Years later. I'm

963
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: on a Rolling Stones tour nineteen seventy two. We it

964
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: was a tour where we hired Stevie Wonders horn section

965
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: called wonder Love, Steve Mateo on trumpet, Him Price on trumbone,

966
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: Bobby Keys on saxophone. The Stones always had a couple

967
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: of tune up runs and Steve Matteo had three or

968
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: four horns, so I picked up one of his trumpet

969
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: was a trumpet and I could still, you know, I

970
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: could play an impressive riff one rift that up, but

971
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: the jazz riff, and they looked up like, oh my god, Marshall.

972
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: But you know, blah blah blah, come and join us. Well,

973
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: every horn section wants to be fatter, you know. It

974
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: was adding another horn, you know. I said, man, you

975
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: gotta I said, come on, you gotta teach me at

976
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: least the chords. And so they taught me some of

977
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: the bullshit and the first night I went on and

978
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: by the end, by the next morning, I couldn't touch

979
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: my lips. They were that bruise because it takes years

980
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: to develop the callous and the pressure. Yeah, I could,

981
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: but I wanted to give me on stage. So it's

982
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: online I played so that we were before a year

983
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: ie we we've had an English gig. That was the

984
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: next gig. It was in England, some Liverpool, some city,

985
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: not London. I know it's online that they were. You

986
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: could see where they talk about it and they have

987
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: my name is the player. And I ended up convincing

988
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 1: them that I would only come in for the last

989
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: four songs and ended that concert tour ended with street

990
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:14,760
Speaker 1: fighting man. It was easy one note. Uh so I got.

991
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: I played eight concerts on stage, the last four numbers

992
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: with the Rolling Stones on the European tour and um,

993
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: it was a tour where it was this was a

994
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: fabulous lifetime experience. It was a tour where the promoter

995
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,320
Speaker 1: had to give us a bushel basket full of rose

996
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: petals and mick which the horns were on the facing

997
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: the stage. We're on the far left and the piano

998
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: was on the far right. He would start with on

999
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: the far right, dancing towards the end, and he would

1000
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 1: throw rose petals on the piano, on each player, bill woman,

1001
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: and everyone would cheer as he you know, did that

1002
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,240
Speaker 1: walk across the stage. Well, the first time he came

1003
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 1: with thirty thousand people in front of the horn section,

1004
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: Alm was peted my parents. I never felt anything like that.

1005
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: The energy factor, it was unreal. It was in describable.

1006
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: I can't even describe it to you. When people say

1007
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: what is it, I said the closest thing. As a poet,

1008
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: I would say it was like a mother's love holding you.

1009
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: It was a warm man. It was something special like

1010
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: And that concert tour we had no encore so everyone

1011
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: walked after street fighting man. We all went with him.

1012
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: We walked into the van and it was dead quiet.

1013
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: While they were still cheering. We were on our way

1014
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: back to the hotel. So, uh, I got that amazing

1015
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: experience of feeling that energy, which is why I'm sure

1016
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: they're still out there doing it. You know, that is special.

1017
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: You get addicted to that. That is way stronger than

1018
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: anything I ever took. You get thirty people loving you.

1019
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: You know, they weren't loving me, they were loving Mick.

1020
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: But at the overflow, you know, he's standing in front

1021
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: of you. Boom. That was a fantastic thing. So that

1022
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: was a great experience. And that was the end of

1023
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: my trumpet playing, even though I still have it as

1024
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: a souvenir against the wall in its case, um My

1025
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: Martin trumpet. Okay, do you know why you're named Marshall? No?

1026
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: I do not. They thought it was an unusual name.

1027
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm not named after anyone. Nope. I didn't even like it.

1028
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: It was an unusual name when I was a kid.

1029
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: That's why I'm asking. Oh no, A lot of my

1030
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: girlfriend's mother that they keep a lot of the mothers

1031
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: that we call me Chess for some reason, it wasn't

1032
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: a common name. I hated when they call me chess. Okay,

1033
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: r was my name. Your father gets beaten, beaten up.

1034
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: You come back from the coast. You're in the business totally.

1035
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: Now what are you doing? Oh yeah, that's a good story.

1036
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: Good story, Bobby, I mean the story. I come to

1037
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: work the famous building, historical landmark where the stones recorded

1038
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: before we moved to the big eight story building. I

1039
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: come to work. I got but that was suit and

1040
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: tie and pinky ring. Because the black artist they wanted you,

1041
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: they liked you if you they wanted what you had.

1042
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: So my dad bought a new Cadillac every year. We

1043
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: were dressed sharp. You know, they knew if you were

1044
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: that successful, then they you could help them get that way,

1045
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, that was the thing. So I was a

1046
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: sharp dress like the zz top sharp dressed man. I

1047
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: had my custom made suits from Maxi the but the

1048
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: R and B. Taylor by bar Mr suit was custom

1049
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: made light blue with blue stitching on the side. I

1050
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: was into that from from being around those sharp dressed people,

1051
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the jazz guys. They were always

1052
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: the sharpest dressed people. They were like even now they

1053
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: are you know they get they really control the fashion culture.

1054
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: I mean the ghetto, you know, from the ghetto seeds.

1055
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's what happened, man. I So anyway,

1056
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: my dad then had the radio stations at the end

1057
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: when you know we're in the car. We we had

1058
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: a car wash like the one in the movie The

1059
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: car Wash, and we it was two blocks in the

1060
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: na avenue and we had a deal. Do you could

1061
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: get it every day? Everyone could get a car wash

1062
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: every day. He just wentn't line and he paid a

1063
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: monthly feet whatever it was. Well, I I came from college.

1064
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: No one told me where to sit, No one told

1065
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: me what my job was, No one told me what

1066
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: I was making. I was very confused. So I got

1067
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: the courage and asked my father that. I said, Dad,

1068
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: you know i've been back a couple of months. I

1069
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: don't know where to go, what office to sit in,

1070
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: and I don't know what to do. Um what you know?

1071
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: What's up? And he said to me, and I can

1072
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: remember this, you stupid motherfucker. Your job's watching me and

1073
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: the subject he with the old European style, watch me,

1074
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 1: watch me a little by little, he would, do you

1075
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: have me do? This, help me do that, like going

1076
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: to the studio. He taught me in that old European way,

1077
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: little by little, little by litterly, let me screw up.

1078
01:00:57,680 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: I made my first deal with Pie Records. It was

1079
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: a a even. I screwed up the math. And when

1080
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: you'll never do it again, will you? Nope, never do

1081
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: it again? You know? That was how I was sort

1082
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: of raised. Um, I guess that's the way he learned.

1083
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: So he just laid that on me. Um. Yeah. So

1084
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: then I started working and I started doing promotion. And

1085
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: there was a famous record promotion guy. You may even

1086
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: have heard of him. I'm sure your listeners have named

1087
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: Howard Bednoe. He was the dean of record promotion probably

1088
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: in America, all the major labels, who was an indie

1089
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: promotion guy. But he worked also for all state record distributors,

1090
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: our distributor, Paul Glass, and I became hot for That's

1091
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: how I learned promotion. I was. He didn't drive, Howard

1092
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: never did. I was his driver and sidekick for a

1093
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: whole summer, you know, seeing all meeting all the disc jockeys,

1094
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: seeing how he did it, how he had a befriend them.

1095
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 1: And then we then in Chicago. Then w l S

1096
01:01:54,600 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: was the major States fifty clear channel AM radio. It

1097
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, white pop radio. They were in this

1098
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: building underneath was the London House, so they hang out

1099
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: of record promotion. Man, where was the London House? And

1100
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: we had our own little section. We'd always played liars

1101
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: poker and then the DJs from upstairs would come down

1102
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: and uh So for that whole year, I was eating

1103
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: steak four nights a week, just signed the bill at

1104
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: the London House, hanging out with all the record promotion

1105
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: of all the labels. It was like a crowd, and

1106
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: they all accepted me. I was the youngest one. I

1107
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: mean when I went to the first meet him, I

1108
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: was the youngest one. I was always the youngest one

1109
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: until young guys started getting into it. Chris Blackwell came

1110
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: to buy records from me before Island Records. He came

1111
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: to buy old singles that weren't hits that they were

1112
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: selling in England. That's how we started out. Chris, I've

1113
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: met so his dad was married to a woman in

1114
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: Lake Forest. So I got to be friends with Chris

1115
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: when he before he started Island. All the first young

1116
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: record guys, Mike and Richard Vernon Blue Horizon Record, seymour

1117
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: Stein who had just left Kinge Records. You know, um,

1118
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: there was this growing group of young guys. You know,

1119
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,919
Speaker 1: I was going to I. I did go to Europe early.

1120
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: I I I aught well. I was always enamored with

1121
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: Europe and I wanted to go real badly. And I

1122
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: told that to my father and he, you know, he

1123
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: gave me a great experience, he said. I went twice

1124
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: to Europe and to Japan with Harry Goodman, my father's

1125
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: publishing partner. But Harry Goodman was the original bass player

1126
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: of the Benny Goodman trio with Lionel Hampton Gene Krupa.

1127
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: So that was my teacher of international kannak, eating hookers

1128
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:40,439
Speaker 1: and uh international record business. And I went around with him.

1129
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: And then it was one of the dean first of

1130
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: the great entertainment lawyers, a guy named Alan Arrow Orangstein

1131
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: Arrow and Silverman. They were one of the first that

1132
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: was our firm. I became close with Alan Arrow. I

1133
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: went to Japan with him. He showed me the far East.

1134
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: We went, you know, introduced me to a lot of people.

1135
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: I had great tutors, and um, you know, I learned

1136
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: that and then I set up chess in Europe. Um

1137
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: and um I I said, I wanted a percentage of

1138
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: any extra we knew we were. We had one contract

1139
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 1: with London Decca for all of the world and when

1140
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: we were making nothing. You know, they knew nothing about

1141
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 1: rock and roll nothing. I mean the Stones were also

1142
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: started with them at that time. They really knew nothing

1143
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: about especially about black music. So Alan Arrow introduced me

1144
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: to Louis Benjamin. It later became Sir Louis from Pie

1145
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: Records that was owned by Lesson Loud, the Grades, the

1146
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: Carney people and from England. Um so I I uh,

1147
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: That's where I made my first international deal was with

1148
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: Louis Benjamin. That was the one that didn't make money.

1149
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: Louis offered to change it and I said, my dad said, no,

1150
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: you'll have to suffer, don't change it. Let him so I.

1151
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: After two years we redid it. But then I went

1152
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: around Europe by Eddie Barkley. You know that you ever

1153
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: Barkley Records and all Indies, the Durham the Minton Jin's,

1154
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: Turkish people in Italy, Uh, Eddie Barkley and the French

1155
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: um Doug hog list so on that Grandmophone, all the

1156
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: indies like Jess and they I was like, you know, man,

1157
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, they loved me. I was

1158
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: like the indie, you know, I came from that INDI

1159
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: for one of the first I mean, they became my

1160
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: close friends. I used to go to Europe a lot um.

1161
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: We had great success. The first year we made a

1162
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty ground and they were shipping green. That

1163
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: was like a half a million bucks back then. And

1164
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: it was in nineteen sixty four when the big statement

1165
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: came in and uh I bought Ah that was the

1166
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: year the stones came because I had just bought my

1167
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: first car and payments hundred and eighties six dollars a month.

1168
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: But it was a red Porsche, the old kind, the

1169
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: little look like the little egg my dad. They thought

1170
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: it was the most ugly thing. They were coming from Cadillac.

1171
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 1: That was the ugliest car they ever saw, you know. Anyway,

1172
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I had, you know, I was up

1173
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: getting custom made suits. I was on an ego trip

1174
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't believe. I had success. I bought a

1175
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: single from Pie Records for three hundred pounds, sold a

1176
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: million pictures of Matt stick Man that status quo. I

1177
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you about that. So how did that

1178
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: come to be? Well, I wanted to have my I started,

1179
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: like I say, in nineteen sixty also like in nineteen

1180
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: sixty two or three. I couldn't believe it's online. I

1181
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: wanted my own record label, so I started. My dad

1182
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: said start one, and I started the label called mar Mars.

1183
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: My little sister Susie used to call me m A

1184
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: R m A R. Just the other day, I just said,

1185
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: could that be online? I found a photo of the

1186
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: label and I so I bought a master from Louis Benjamin,

1187
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: another pie Master, the first one, for like three hundred pounds.

1188
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: That was the deal, non hits, and it was a

1189
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: guy named Nichols, Jimmy Nichols, who was the first drummer

1190
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: of the Beatles. It's actually on the label, says first

1191
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 1: drummer of the Beatles, Scott remember scat music, And I

1192
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: put it's probably those forty copies. I put out two

1193
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 1: singles on marmar and uh, you know then it didn't

1194
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: sell it. I couldn't do it. I had no promotion.

1195
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 1: But that was my first thing. And I did the

1196
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: Bau Diddaly and little by little, I you know, I

1197
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: started to to uh, but the status quo. I wanted

1198
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: my own label. Then of course I formed that labeled

1199
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: Cadet Concept before the status quo that was, that was

1200
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: my own that was why why was it? Why was

1201
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 1: it called Cadet Concept Because of this guy that worked there.

1202
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: I loved him. His name was Dick La Palm. They

1203
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: were part of the Cadet renaming. Argo was the original

1204
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: jazz label. We had to give up the name Argo

1205
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 1: because there was an English spoken word label name Argo.

1206
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,439
Speaker 1: They sued us. We decided just to change the name.

1207
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: So we they came up with the name Cadet. I

1208
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: never personally liked it at all, but they liked it

1209
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: because it was chess checker Cadet three season. The way

1210
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: it sounded so okay. So when I wanted my own label,

1211
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: they came up. Well, I said, what's it gonna be.

1212
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 1: It's gonna be my concept because it was the whole

1213
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: acid pod psychedelic thing. I was one of them that

1214
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: I was one of that. The exact age I went

1215
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: to Woodstock, I drove from Chicago. You know, I was

1216
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: one of those people who took acid and and pot.

1217
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: I was just enamored with it all and uh, anyway,

1218
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: that's how that happened. They said, well, you know, let's

1219
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: call it that concept. So I said, okay, we'll call

1220
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: it that concept. It was the easiest way to get

1221
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: my own. I went for it. I would have probably

1222
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: not liked it, and that's how it started. I agreed

1223
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: to do it, and then I got Then I had

1224
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: we My daddy had hired these really a fabulous avant

1225
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 1: garde ad agency named Hervis Spinser in Churchill, one of

1226
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 1: the first young new ones in America. They were in Chicago.

1227
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: He had hired them for the radio station. And I

1228
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: met this guy, Robin Binzer, who designed the Cadet concept label,

1229
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: and he came up with the name rotary connection. You

1230
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 1: know all those Okay, well one story at one time,

1231
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: because we're gonna get the many ripton. Well, it's all

1232
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: of that concept. Okay, wait, let's call connect concept. You

1233
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: put out pictures of match stick Man. I bought that single. Okay,

1234
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: did you hear it and say, hey, this is a hit,

1235
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: and and how did you make it a hit? I

1236
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: heard of that, I heard and I thought it was

1237
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: ahead of course, And how did you make it? A

1238
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 1: here a dis jacket that would do favors for me

1239
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: on that fifty thousand one station. Art Roberts broke that

1240
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: and rotary connection I learned from Howard Bednow. Okay, so

1241
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 1: I get it. I made him. Okay, I'll tell you

1242
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 1: how I got it. I made a movie in nine four,

1243
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:40,719
Speaker 1: probably one of the first music videos. Two guys from

1244
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 1: Illinois Institute of Technology, I think came. I thought it

1245
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: was University Chicago, but it wasn't. They they were film

1246
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:49,879
Speaker 1: majors and they said, we want to make and we

1247
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 1: make a film about something with Chess records we needed

1248
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: for our to graduate. Our thestis was a fifth Little

1249
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 1: George film. I wanted to be a film producer. I

1250
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: even had my own Safari equitor. You know. I was

1251
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:05,879
Speaker 1: ready to be a producer. Yeah, I'll help you. So happened.

1252
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: I called him as that Bo Diddley is recording for

1253
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: a week and attended, let's do it. So I made

1254
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: this black and white film, Legend of Bo Diddley. You

1255
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: can see it yourself. I just put it up. I'm

1256
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: building a YouTube channel for my grandchildren, and it's on there.

1257
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 1: I actually fixed it, we repaired it. It's you know,

1258
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: it's not a good movie, but I gave a featured

1259
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: pardon it to Art Roberts, that famous, that fabulous nighttime

1260
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 1: disc jockey. You know, he was my guy, you know,

1261
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 1: and um he were friends. But you know, and he

1262
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: broke that record in the rotary and you know he

1263
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: played you know, yeah, he could play what he wanted.

1264
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: I guess I don't remember the details. Before they had

1265
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: strict playlists, you know this, jackets could still have to

1266
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 1: have some freedom in those eras, that era. Then when

1267
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: Paola came, they started with control paylists and all those

1268
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: things to stop it. But that's how that started. And

1269
01:10:56,240 --> 01:11:02,679
Speaker 1: then I got real lucky because I moved my office.

1270
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: I had this real op art office on the first

1271
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 1: floor of that eighth story building. Jeff Berry said. It

1272
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: was the best office you ever saw. I had like

1273
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 1: black and white hop art. It was wood panel. I

1274
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: had it painted black epoxy because I saw Eve San

1275
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 1: Laurent in Paris. His shop where I used to buy

1276
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: clothes was painted with orange epoxy, you know, before he

1277
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: became famous. So I did black epoxy. It was a

1278
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: way big speakers. Everyone would call me. After that, my

1279
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 1: dad left, we'd all smoke pot and listened to all

1280
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 1: the music in there. That was my office. But then

1281
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 1: we moved. We moved to the eighth floor where we

1282
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,679
Speaker 1: had We came up with a concept. We had the

1283
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: studio a this big studio studio be a medium size.

1284
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: Then I I built a small studio with very simple

1285
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 1: equipment for the musicians to work. And I hired a

1286
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: rhythm section, famous people Donnie Hathaway, Danny Danny Hathaway, Donnie

1287
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 1: Hathaway and piano still up to John Bace, Maurice White,

1288
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: the first way to fire on drums. Sometimes they come

1289
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: every day. Paid them like a hundred and fifty a week.

1290
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: The jam worked on tracks. We had four little rooms

1291
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 1: with upright pianos and real to real tape recorders for

1292
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 1: songwriters and they would work. We have a blackboard. I

1293
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 1: put Eddie James coming in two weeks right songs. Then

1294
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: they would develop it with these musicians. We cut little tracks.

1295
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: They could work it. It was a creative, a creative factory.

1296
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 1: And I moved up to the eighth floor. That was

1297
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: where I ended my career chest on the eighth floor.

1298
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: But I moved up to the eighth floor and one

1299
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: of my jobs then was to get lead sheets made. Now,

1300
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: lead sheets had to be if you wanted to copyright

1301
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: you in those areas, you didn't send in a tape

1302
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: or CD. You actually had notated on a lead sheet

1303
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,640
Speaker 1: that you had to send with notes and paper. And

1304
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: I would you know, we had people we hired to

1305
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 1: make lead sheets of the records that we put out

1306
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: so we could copyright them. So I heard about this guy,

1307
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 1: Charles Stepney Um and that he would do lead sheets,

1308
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: like for fifteen bucks a lead sheet, whatever we pay

1309
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: if done cheap, you know, fifteen was probably like forty

1310
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: bucks now for a sheet. And this short, chubby guy

1311
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: in a suit uncomp suit and Tide comes at the

1312
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: eighth floor. We also had a commissary with like a

1313
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: microwave and weird horrible junk food, so the musician everyone

1314
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 1: would stay up there this musician's coffee machine or whatever.

1315
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: And we're in the commissary. Me met this Charles. I

1316
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: made a deal with him for lead sheets, and he

1317
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 1: had this big portfolio, like a bit six inch thick folder.

1318
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: What's that? You know? It's a symphony everyt and I said,

1319
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 1: oh my god, you wrote a symphony. He said, I'm

1320
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: in my senior year of music school. I'm gonna graduate now.

1321
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: I had to write this. If you ever heard it, no,

1322
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: I played on the piano. I hear it in my head,

1323
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, I said, well, you know, I've got this

1324
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: fucking wet. I got to know him over months making leecheets,

1325
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: and he would come and were talking. I've got this

1326
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: idea for an interracial group. Um, I got many Riperton

1327
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: here works through the Sydney and the other guy hanging around.

1328
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 1: I got this. I said that this is one of

1329
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: the sales guys. They had a band of Polish band

1330
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 1: in Chicago, white band. Um, I didn't forget that the

1331
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 1: other day. I remember their name for a minute, now

1332
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:20,600
Speaker 1: I forgot anyway up. So I combined them and I

1333
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 1: told her, if it's this idea, I said, this is

1334
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: the psychedelic age. By then I had been taking LSD

1335
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 1: numerous times, but I wasn't ever into the Grateful Dead, uh.

1336
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 1: I was into the spiritual. I went to hear Tim Leary,

1337
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: Bob Dillian opened up for him or in white robes.

1338
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: I was into that because the first asset trip I

1339
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: took in the sixth you know, mid sixties, whenever that

1340
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: was was really the real deal. Sandals Laboratory from Switzerland. Um,

1341
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: that's where I played the sraman on Good Vibe because

1342
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 1: I heard Good Vibrations on the Ascid of the Beach

1343
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 1: Boys and they have that whoo. So I wanted to

1344
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: put that on the rotary. But so I talked told him,

1345
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I think there's there's this whole

1346
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: alternative radio market. You know, Um, there's there's a lot

1347
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: happening now across the country. Um, I want to do

1348
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 1: this thing for people on a bad trip to calm

1349
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: him down. But you know, a soft psychedelic and uh again, Um,

1350
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm using my dad's concept. If you get people around

1351
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: you know their ship, you'll make your stuff better. Will

1352
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 1: you work with me? And he said, of course. It

1353
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: was this chance, you know I mean. And then I

1354
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 1: got Jean Bard, who was part of our house a

1355
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 1: and our staff family, who had he came up from

1356
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: the South. He had one hit record called Country. He

1357
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 1: was agreed. He still is a great He's still like

1358
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: in his nineties. He still does gigs playing saxophony. He

1359
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: was a brilliant saxophonist. He's on a ton of Chess

1360
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: records and he was an actor. I made him part

1361
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 1: of my team, Charles, Stephanie, Marshall, Chess because they he

1362
01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 1: was the guy who talked to the musicians, because I

1363
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,719
Speaker 1: I had the concept, but I couldn't write the music.

1364
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 1: I couldn't do all those things. And I'll be honest,

1365
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:08,839
Speaker 1: I never got it a hundred percent how I wanted,

1366
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: but I got it close enough. And then when if

1367
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: became a semi hit, of course you say, yeah, it

1368
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: was my thing. But you know, I had this great band.

1369
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: I put together the most avant garde group of black

1370
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: musicians in Chicago. Maurice White was ended up on earth

1371
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: Wind and Fire. Louis Sadderfield earth Wood and Fire. Drummer

1372
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: was another Morris Jennings who played with Ramsey Lewis fill

1373
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 1: Up Church brilliant bassist and guitarists. Um, I put them

1374
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: all together and uh we started rehearsing. I got the

1375
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: White band with many and then we started working. I

1376
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: picked the songs, my concept I did. I picked that.

1377
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 1: I I picked the songs, and I kept pushing the concept,

1378
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 1: what how we were going to do it? And then

1379
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: we we recorded and I remember the first session. It

1380
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: was the first time Charles had ever heard his music,

1381
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, played back that he had written. You know

1382
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:01,799
Speaker 1: that he was sweat, you know, he was so worried.

1383
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 1: But we eventually we would. We started doing all the

1384
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: strings and horns from the Chicago Symphony, you know, we would,

1385
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: and he would. He he became a great arranger. He

1386
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: died young. He did all the earth, wind and fire.

1387
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: He would have been he was like Henry man Sin.

1388
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: He would ended up in Hollywood. He was a genius.

1389
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: He died very young, in his like late thirties of

1390
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 1: him forties. You know, he died young. But we made uh,

1391
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 1: you know, and I even helped him when I left Chess,

1392
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: I helped him make his agreement with the new people

1393
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: who own chest after it was so um. But he

1394
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: he was, He was amazing. He was a genius. He

1395
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,759
Speaker 1: was probably the best thing I ever brought the chess.

1396
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 1: If it would have stayed sixty nine, I don't know

1397
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: if you want to jump to ninety nine, but that

1398
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 1: was like probably the heaviest year of that period of

1399
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: my life. And it began in January. I was already

1400
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,639
Speaker 1: on a high man I had, you know, I had

1401
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: things were good for me at Chess. Foreign royalties, shock,

1402
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: Berry Broken England. It was I was taking people to

1403
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 1: BBC TV shows Fontela Bass, Ready, Steady Go, like the

1404
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,759
Speaker 1: first TV music show in the world was in England,

1405
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 1: and um, you know all that was happening. But in

1406
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 1: sixty nine, that was a heavy year. It was. It

1407
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 1: started in January. I got a call from Seymour Stein

1408
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: and uh, Mike Vernon. They you know, we have a

1409
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 1: group called Fleetwood Mac. She just died. It's in the

1410
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 1: news now, Fleetwood Mac. But before her it was a

1411
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: blues man Fleetwood Mat. When they started, it was Mick

1412
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: Fleetwood on drums, but they had a fabulous guitarist named

1413
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 1: Peter Green really as good as Eric Clapton, as far

1414
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: as I's going, really good. Well, we're doing a tour

1415
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: that we're you know, we love the blues. We're touring America.

1416
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 1: It was our second tour. Will you help us do

1417
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 1: an album in Chicago? Can we come to the studio? Well,

1418
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 1: I'd already done the Stones in sixty four, so they knew,

1419
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, they they it was known that I could

1420
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 1: do that. I mean I could have done that, so

1421
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 1: I did. I said, yeah, what do you want? We

1422
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 1: want you to get? Get me four or five chess

1423
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 1: players that we want Willie Dickson, we want so and

1424
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: so on piano. Um, I ort to span uh and

1425
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 1: we'll play with him and we'll we want to record

1426
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 1: one day, full day, we'll be there. So they came

1427
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 1: to Chicago and we recorded eighteen hours double album called Fleetwood,

1428
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: Mac and Chicago. It's online. You could hear it on Spotify.

1429
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 1: And Uh, that's how my years started. In January, then

1430
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 1: I did another one, uh, Fathers and Sons with all

1431
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: the white blues guys, Mike Bloomfield, Barry Goldberg, Samily and drums,

1432
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:41,680
Speaker 1: Paul Butterfield and Brite and Harmonic. He. I did that

1433
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 1: live in Chicago studio. And this is all nine. I'm

1434
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: on a fucking I had the Rotary. I had Electric Mud,

1435
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 1: which was a chiant, the biggest blues album we ever had.

1436
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 1: And then I get a call from my father had

1437
01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 1: a cell phone, not a cell phone, a mobile phone

1438
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: in the car and him my uncle called me from

1439
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 1: the radio station and say, you know you're we're gonna

1440
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: sell Chack. We're gonna sell Chess records. Um, don't worry,

1441
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 1: you can start your own label. You'll get part of

1442
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 1: the sale. Huh. And I was blown away. I mean,

1443
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 1: this was like I was. It was like mean the

1444
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: way I say, it's like raised for an Olympic event.

1445
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 1: They canceled the year before the Olympics. You know, after

1446
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: a lifetime. Oh my god, you know, I couldn't believe it.

1447
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 1: Don't worry, don't worry. It's we got this great off

1448
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 1: of the radio. My dad was enamored with radio. He

1449
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 1: knew that it was the dying days of white people

1450
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 1: owning a black business, even though we were converting to

1451
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: a full scale business. But he was already bored with it,

1452
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: and he loved radio. And he became a He became

1453
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,679
Speaker 1: a humanitarian. I don't know what the word is, scholars ships.

1454
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 1: We give a thousand bags of food Christmas at the churches.

1455
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:58,639
Speaker 1: He gave back. He would tell me he gave back.

1456
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 1: He fell to the black community. You could hear. I

1457
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 1: could send you I have When he died, they did

1458
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,799
Speaker 1: an hour radio show, child let her Chest tribute. Everyone

1459
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: called in probably black. You could hear how they what

1460
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: he did. He gave the water for Martin Luther King

1461
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: for a march, you know, all kinds of stuff after.

1462
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 1: You know, maybe he was guilty. Maybe he did take barrel.

1463
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:24,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. You never told me that, and I

1464
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: don't think he did in that evil way. He had

1465
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:32,719
Speaker 1: his own he self made guys and self made businesses

1466
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: in their own beliefs of how it should be. You know,

1467
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 1: ship man, I paid him off. I'm doing all the work.

1468
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: You know, they got a modern recording contract has all

1469
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 1: that in it. Artists pay for promotion, videos, everything. He felt,

1470
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 1: why shouldn't they pay for a part of Paola. You know,

1471
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 1: he felt that he really believed it, but it wasn't

1472
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: in the contract. He just maybe I don't know what

1473
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 1: he did. I wasn't involved with the royalty and at all.

1474
01:21:57,200 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: I really wasn't. I didn't care about it. You know,

1475
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: we had bookkeeper, we had too good accountants. Um I

1476
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 1: left before was that was dever came. I never reached

1477
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:11,719
Speaker 1: that stature. Um yes, I have the records on that concept.

1478
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: I made sure they, you know, that lived up to

1479
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: the contract, but I never got into the full scale.

1480
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,679
Speaker 1: I don't know what went on. I didn't care about

1481
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: it then. You know, it was why I was having

1482
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 1: too much fun, you know, being a record man, making

1483
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money, sports cars, Uh, marijuana was like

1484
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:30,600
Speaker 1: blew my mind. It was like wearing sunglasses on a

1485
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 1: clary day, you know, it was it was good. That

1486
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:35,680
Speaker 1: was a good time. But then they called me and

1487
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 1: I was blown away. And then shortly after that, my

1488
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 1: dad dropped head driving the car fifty two years old

1489
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:44,719
Speaker 1: from the radio station with her his public affairs director,

1490
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 1: Bernardine C. Washington. We had a public affairs director, black lady,

1491
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,600
Speaker 1: very high class, high society black lady. In a way.

1492
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:57,799
Speaker 1: They had that in Chicago. There's the whole cotillion people

1493
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: from Jet magazine, Ebony. There's like, uh kind of group.

1494
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 1: There wasn't that error anyway. Um anyway, that's what happened.

1495
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,759
Speaker 1: So that that's that's was sixty nine was mind boggling.

1496
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 1: And then my dad died and my uncle wanted to leave.

1497
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: They they were glad to let him leave. They were

1498
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: they wanted to move. They knew they were going to

1499
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,679
Speaker 1: close it up and moved to New York. They hired

1500
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 1: uh uh Land Levy at the time from Epic. You know,

1501
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: it was a major knew nothing about the Indies nothing.

1502
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 1: They were idiot people called g RT from Sunny Vale, California.

1503
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: They were still at the beginning of Silicon Valley. The

1504
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: reason they had all that money is when eight tracks

1505
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 1: and concettes first were invented, only two people manufactured them

1506
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: in the world, Ampex and g RT on the West Coast.

1507
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 1: Majors had to go to them, so they had all

1508
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: those millions of dollars, and both Ampics and g RT

1509
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: thought they needed content. So that's why they wanted to

1510
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: buy Chess. And it happened that Alan Arrow, the big

1511
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: music lawyer, was a lawyer for three m who made

1512
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 1: the tape and eight checks and cassettes. He put it,

1513
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 1: so he knew he put it together when they said

1514
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: they wanted content, and uh, it was a great deal,

1515
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 1: except the stock was seventeen and when I sold Mina

1516
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,600
Speaker 1: was seven dollars or something. My mother never even sold hers.

1517
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 1: It collapsed, you know, because it was restricted stock. You

1518
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 1: couldn't sell it for two years or something then, so

1519
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,719
Speaker 1: I ended up So it was, you know, a crazy time.

1520
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 1: I uh never got my money as I was supposed

1521
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 1: to get the million bucks I was supposed to get,

1522
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: and there was my dad had no will. Most of

1523
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:41,560
Speaker 1: the kid's money all went seventies percent or something to

1524
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 1: a state tax. But that's that's when I was you

1525
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 1: know and then this GRT they wanted. They were on

1526
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: the stock exchange. So they sent me to an American

1527
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:55,719
Speaker 1: Management and Association meetings, to a school to learn about

1528
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 1: stock and how to make forecasts. That was the big thing.

1529
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: We never made a four said, just be made hits.

1530
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: Made another hit, not a forecast. I hated it. I

1531
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,799
Speaker 1: hated it. I hated them. I hated everything at that period.

1532
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:13,320
Speaker 1: And uh, I quit and I was I quit. I

1533
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: just couldn't. I just said, fuck it, I'm quitting. I

1534
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 1: didn't know what I wanted to do. I had a

1535
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 1: bad marriage. My first marriage was a disaster. I was

1536
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: still married. Everything collapsed the end of sixty nine, and

1537
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 1: that's what I got. The call from Bob Krasnow said, Man,

1538
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 1: I heard the Rolling Stones are getting rid of their

1539
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 1: manager Alan Klein and their label London Decca is over.

1540
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:37,639
Speaker 1: I know of you and I joined together. We could

1541
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 1: let's get him man. He had blue thumb. I know

1542
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:43,360
Speaker 1: you could help me get them. And I thought about it,

1543
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 1: and I told you. I called him up and I

1544
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: said we can't never work together. Come on, man, and

1545
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 1: he gave me a mixed number. And then a couple

1546
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:51,680
Speaker 1: of weeks later, I went to London, and that's how

1547
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 1: it all began. That's a whole other story about how

1548
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: my first meeting with the Rolling Stones and all that.

1549
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 1: Tell that story now, and tell the story of Rolling

1550
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 1: Stones Records. I called Nick Jagger. I met him in Chicago.

1551
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 1: Well before you go, there was crass now mad that

1552
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 1: you did it without him? Yeah? No, no, no, no, no, no,

1553
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: not at all. Man. We had taken mushroom steal and

1554
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: that that's what I'm trying to tell you. We were

1555
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: already out another level. You know. We love the honesty

1556
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 1: more than madness. You know, he agreed we couldn't work together.

1557
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:32,640
Speaker 1: He was an egomaniac to he became the president of

1558
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,720
Speaker 1: elected whatever. Remember I loved them, Yeah, I loved them, man,

1559
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 1: you know, but we loved each other, you know, but

1560
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 1: we're you know, in that early thing. No, he wasn't mad,

1561
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,280
Speaker 1: and who knew what was going to happen. So I

1562
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:47,160
Speaker 1: did call. I had met Nick Jagger when he was

1563
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:49,839
Speaker 1: in Chicago. But the one I bonded with was Brian Jones,

1564
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 1: the one who died. And I was gonna say that story.

1565
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: In ninety four, they were staying at this Chicago motel

1566
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:58,720
Speaker 1: and they asked me to I want to come by

1567
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 1: and hang out. Well, they blew me away. Man, I've

1568
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: never seen people with long hair like that in person.

1569
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 1: They were drinking Jack Daniels out of the bottle. I

1570
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 1: was drinking screw drivers with girls you know, body or

1571
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: they were drinking it out of the bottle. Okay, Uh,

1572
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: they're going, I'll drive Brian. I took him around and

1573
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:18,799
Speaker 1: introduced him. I gave him each records. I was already

1574
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: sending records to Mack and Keith. They would come when

1575
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: I was working in the shipping room. We had this

1576
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 1: weird connection. Man born in a similar year. I was

1577
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 1: connected to them. You know. I would send them. They

1578
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: couldn't send letters. So that's all making Keiths met because

1579
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 1: they had chess. One of one of them at Chess

1580
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 1: records on the subway and then one saw the other

1581
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 1: and started talking. But but anyway, that's what they told me.

1582
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 1: So I said, you know, I called Mick River. I said,

1583
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 1: you know company has been soul and depressed. I heard, uh,

1584
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: you are also having a situation with your label. I

1585
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 1: think there's something we could do together. Oh Marshall, I

1586
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: loved I come to you call where to talk? To you,

1587
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 1: but I just had my passport held for having feather

1588
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 1: means in the London airport. Could you come to London?

1589
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'll come in the next two weeks.

1590
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 1: He had this great woman running his office and named

1591
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: Joe Bergman, an American, so she, you know, she knew

1592
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:18,719
Speaker 1: I was coming. And two weeks later I went to London.

1593
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: I was familiar. I had been to London probably twenty

1594
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,800
Speaker 1: times by then, you know, setting up the stuff, and

1595
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 1: I knew where to stay. And so I went to

1596
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: London and I called her up and I said, a

1597
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 1: Marshall Chess, I'm here. Had my meeting with Mack. She said,

1598
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 1: well mix in Ireland writing and I rip flipped out

1599
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 1: what the means? And I he told me to come here. Well,

1600
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 1: I'll talk call them and tell him you're here. I

1601
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 1: was really upset, you know, My ego was upset, you know.

1602
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 1: But sure enough, two or three days later he came

1603
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 1: to London. We had our meeting and he said, come

1604
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:53,559
Speaker 1: to my house on Cheney Walk. I don't know if

1605
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 1: you know London. Cheney Walk is fabulous. It's on the river,

1606
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 1: these beautiful brownstones. I to each house today is probably

1607
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,839
Speaker 1: worth and her fifteen million. You know, he's gorgeous old

1608
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 1: right on the river though in Chelsea, so near the

1609
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 1: King's Road. So uh, I go to mixed house. I'm

1610
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: a little nervous, you know, I'm wearing but I'm wearing

1611
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: already my I've already switched from the suit and tight

1612
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 1: chest g O Levi, you know Levi's. I was in

1613
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: my more modern, you know, sixties gear and the Mick

1614
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:30,439
Speaker 1: take took me up to his sitting room and blew

1615
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:35,560
Speaker 1: me away. Man, I'm from Chicago, from the Midwest, uncultured.

1616
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,600
Speaker 1: This guy at antiques or yell rugs. It was. I

1617
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:43,839
Speaker 1: never paneled walls, you know. But he had this long table,

1618
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 1: the couch and this long table. And I immediately laughed

1619
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:51,800
Speaker 1: because he treated LPs like me badly out in the cover,

1620
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: piled scratched, you know, he treated him badly as a

1621
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: record player. And he goes up to the table. I'm

1622
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 1: in the couch and he puts on Lift Engineer, which

1623
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 1: is a zydical from the Bayou, New Orleans. He puts

1624
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,880
Speaker 1: on black Snake Blues and he comes in front of

1625
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 1: me and he starts doing that like a dance back

1626
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: and forth while we're talking, and I'm thinking, like, my

1627
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:15,560
Speaker 1: father's this guy's nervous. Well, you know, I knew he was.

1628
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:17,640
Speaker 1: He was nervous. You know. They looked at me like

1629
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:19,800
Speaker 1: if I was, you were a car dealer and I

1630
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 1: Henry ford Son came in. Come on, they got their

1631
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,640
Speaker 1: name from Chess record from Rolling Stone, Muddy Waters, come on,

1632
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: you know they named you know, they named the track

1633
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 1: an Instrumentale twenty after our address. You know. So my

1634
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: relationship with them was a whole other kind of weirdness,

1635
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:40,360
Speaker 1: you know, based on just whatever. Uh. But I was

1636
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 1: a real record man. Man. They were lucky motherfucker's to

1637
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:44,680
Speaker 1: get me. It was. I was at the top of

1638
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,840
Speaker 1: my game, you know, and and there weren't guys like

1639
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 1: me many around if any and I think they knew it.

1640
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: I was. So you know, my plan was to become

1641
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 1: the seventh or eighth Rolling Stone. You know, I had

1642
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 1: a whole and I wanted a label, you know. But anyway,

1643
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:01,920
Speaker 1: I said, well we can former label. We we like Atlantic,

1644
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,639
Speaker 1: but we had offers from Columbia and all these other

1645
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:08,800
Speaker 1: epic They knew about Atlantic. They didn't know Ahmed then yet,

1646
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: they hadn't met Ahmed or anyone but they knew about

1647
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:15,280
Speaker 1: the music on Atlantic. They loved it. Um anyway, well,

1648
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:18,720
Speaker 1: I went to mix, so he says, we's dances and okay,

1649
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:21,080
Speaker 1: he said, why don't you go down there down the street.

1650
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: Keith lives right down the street, right on Cheney Walk.

1651
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 1: Go over to Keith and tonight you'll come with us

1652
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,760
Speaker 1: to meet everyone and we have a rehearsal tonight. We

1653
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 1: have a rehearsal room in East London, the poorer section

1654
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:36,920
Speaker 1: of London, their original probably rehearsal room. So I said, great.

1655
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 1: If I walked down, I knock on keys doors and

1656
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 1: he's got a some Italian like butler, older guy, you know,

1657
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,519
Speaker 1: house man answers, oh keys upstairs. I go up to steps,

1658
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 1: same kind of house, walk up the steps and there's

1659
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:54,640
Speaker 1: Keith with Graham Parsons, you know, the famous country rock guy.

1660
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: They're at this yellow or psychedelics sort of like the Beatles.

1661
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 1: Piano all yet wasn't it was a styway but painted weird.

1662
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,479
Speaker 1: They they were playing together and singing, and I sit

1663
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: down and how Martha did they They commence about how

1664
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:12,680
Speaker 1: I was dressed because they saw me from the key,

1665
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 1: had seen me in Chicago, sharp dressed man, you know,

1666
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 1: the suit to tie the whole thing. Then they had

1667
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:20,240
Speaker 1: a joke about it. Anyway, I went with them that night.

1668
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:22,800
Speaker 1: I was in the car and I'll tell you how

1669
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:28,160
Speaker 1: naive I was. We're going to East London and uh,

1670
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 1: I see in every building there's a glow in the window,

1671
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 1: And I said, what's that fucking glow? Man? Don't you

1672
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:35,720
Speaker 1: know what that is? A poor people who have to

1673
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:39,560
Speaker 1: put money at to keep the heaters going tenpence, fivepence

1674
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:42,600
Speaker 1: whatever in And all those glowes were heaters, and you know,

1675
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 1: in the living room was winter. So and we get

1676
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:47,839
Speaker 1: to the rehearsal room and it's down in the basement

1677
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 1: and it's funky, but all they had drums that all

1678
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:53,200
Speaker 1: set up, you know, to play and guess what's on

1679
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 1: the column? My Electric Mud album opened up with a big,

1680
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:00,120
Speaker 1: you know pick of muddy and white rope. That is

1681
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 1: my omen this is the ship, you know. And I

1682
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:05,599
Speaker 1: went back to Chicago and I told them a why

1683
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 1: I at the time, I was good friends with the winners.

1684
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone was founded in San Francisco. I had met

1685
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 1: them on my alternative. You know, I needed for all

1686
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 1: my albums for that concept that was a great They

1687
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 1: were important. I remember if you subscribe to Rolling Stone,

1688
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 1: you got a free copy Electric Mud. Okay, there you go,

1689
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: you got it. So I even I think I spent

1690
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:33,680
Speaker 1: one night on Jan's couch. You know, I knew him well.

1691
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: I loved them, you know, and we loved each other.

1692
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: We had They introduced me to Donny and Mitchell the

1693
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,440
Speaker 1: first all the big alternative radio guys in San Francisco.

1694
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,600
Speaker 1: I had driven around the country these alternative stations. You

1695
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 1: could come in with your album. They would like to

1696
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 1: joint and put your album on right on the air,

1697
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 1: you know, and sit around and played. It was great anyway.

1698
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 1: I U Jane and Joan Winner managed an artist called

1699
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 1: Boscags and Um. They had one album on Atlantic, which

1700
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:04,920
Speaker 1: was a flop, and then the contract ended with one

1701
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:08,840
Speaker 1: record deal. I said, I wanted this is before when

1702
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:11,400
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna start my own label. I said,

1703
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 1: I could, I want to. I want to sign bos He's.

1704
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:16,840
Speaker 1: They took me to see him with his band in

1705
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:19,680
Speaker 1: this little club. He was just great. We hit it

1706
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:23,519
Speaker 1: off immediately and uh he he even drove me to

1707
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,400
Speaker 1: the airport. And because it was the psychedelic there was

1708
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: you probably remember your old enough. The Bible of the sixties.

1709
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: The first psychedelic was the Teachings of Don Juan Carlos Costaada.

1710
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:39,519
Speaker 1: Boz Scags gave me the manuscript. He knew it from

1711
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,919
Speaker 1: Berkeley when he got it. That's where the Carlos Costnada

1712
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: was the professor at Berkeley. He gave me the manuscript

1713
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:48,479
Speaker 1: of that book and we drive me and I dropped

1714
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:50,600
Speaker 1: me at the airport. He was gonna do what the

1715
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: point is? Then I didn't get the money. Then all

1716
01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:55,680
Speaker 1: that collapsed. I knew I couldn't have a label, but

1717
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 1: I told the Stones that I had to know in

1718
01:34:58,760 --> 01:35:01,960
Speaker 1: two weeks because I I'll tell you, I'm embarrassed. They'll

1719
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:05,640
Speaker 1: probably hear this. I told him that I had Texas millionaires.

1720
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 1: That's what I thought was a good line to give

1721
01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 1: to back my label. And I was gonna have Boss

1722
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 1: Gaggs as an artist, but I would like to work

1723
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:15,639
Speaker 1: with them. You gotta let me know in two weeks.

1724
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: And like I said, had this bad marriage. I was

1725
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:22,360
Speaker 1: living in Lake Forest, Illinois and uh with my wife

1726
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 1: and on the believe it or not, on the fourteenth day,

1727
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 1: I got a weather a Yellow Western Union telegram saying

1728
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:30,920
Speaker 1: we want to make a deal, come to London, and

1729
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: that's how it began. I came to London. I met

1730
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,680
Speaker 1: Prince Rupert, the guy they had hired to handle their

1731
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:40,599
Speaker 1: financial problems, and he didn't know nothing about the record business.

1732
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:44,160
Speaker 1: I got them to hire Allan Arrow introduced Prince Rupert.

1733
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:46,160
Speaker 1: He he owned, He was a partner in a merch

1734
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 1: a private merchant bank called Leopold Josephin's Sons. So yeah,

1735
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 1: that's how how all that began. And then they never

1736
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:56,800
Speaker 1: wanted the manager of the Rolling Stones that because they

1737
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: got burnt by Alan Kline. He owns to this day

1738
01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 1: that they he's now, but they owned the masters and

1739
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 1: publishing of all those early great tunes. Um. And then

1740
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:07,720
Speaker 1: years later we found that he had even that he

1741
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:11,639
Speaker 1: was even he had the Stones lawyer on his payroll.

1742
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: It was all set up, you know. Anyway aside from that, um,

1743
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, uh, we want they wanted to go forward,

1744
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: and we did and we made the deal with Atlantic.

1745
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:26,679
Speaker 1: That was a fabulous experience because it was Ahmed er Agan,

1746
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:29,839
Speaker 1: Mike Matt Mayor in the same building was their lawyer.

1747
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:33,160
Speaker 1: And that was Atlantic was on Broadway before the w

1748
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:37,040
Speaker 1: e a you know, and I knew Ahmed. He was

1749
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:39,800
Speaker 1: at my bar Mitzvah. I'm a you know they I

1750
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:42,879
Speaker 1: had a star. I had Sam Phillis from San Ahmed.

1751
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 1: They were you know, he was there, Jerry Wexler, whom

1752
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 1: I never really liked, but I was filt. He was

1753
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 1: an elitist to look down upon my parents and my uncle.

1754
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:56,599
Speaker 1: He looked at them like they were peasants. Anyway, aside

1755
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 1: from that, um he so anyway, saw that went down.

1756
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 1: I I started with the stones. They sent me the telegram.

1757
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 1: I went. I met Prince Rupert. We we could close

1758
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:10,720
Speaker 1: the London Decade deal. I had to bring them all

1759
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 1: the tracks. Sir Edward lewis one of the inventors of Radar.

1760
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 1: He was the head of London Decca. I went with

1761
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:20,599
Speaker 1: Patty Grafton Green. He was an assistant lawyer of Miss Stacey,

1762
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:23,280
Speaker 1: the big guy he was like she was the dean

1763
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:27,120
Speaker 1: of the lawyers in London. Patty Grafton Green is now

1764
01:37:27,200 --> 01:37:29,880
Speaker 1: one of the biggest entertainment lawyers in England. If you

1765
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: still if you still not retire. Um. We went to

1766
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:35,000
Speaker 1: the meeting. We had to bring I had to bring

1767
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 1: because at the deal with London Decca was the Stones

1768
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 1: had to give them all the stuff recorded during while

1769
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 1: they were signed. So we went through all the tapes

1770
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:49,639
Speaker 1: and got basically made a big reel of Grade B songs.

1771
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 1: But then Mick decided to stick it up their ass

1772
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 1: and he did that song called cock Sucker Blues. You know,

1773
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 1: I don't know can I sing the lyric on your show?

1774
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:02,200
Speaker 1: Where could I? I'm a strangery? Where can I get

1775
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:05,000
Speaker 1: my cock sucked? You know? Where can I get my

1776
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:08,840
Speaker 1: ass fucked? I'm a stranger in town? That should be

1777
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 1: a gay anthem right now, you know? Anyway, aside from that,

1778
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:16,080
Speaker 1: um they when they heard that, they flipped all these

1779
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:18,960
Speaker 1: stuffy Englishmen they played that. You know, that was a

1780
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: classic pardiographed in Green has told people he was shocked himself.

1781
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:25,920
Speaker 1: He remembers I remember reading where he said he remembered

1782
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:28,840
Speaker 1: walking across the bridge after that meeting and shocked. But

1783
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 1: that's how that ended. And then we made the deal

1784
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:33,639
Speaker 1: with Atlantic and it was a great deal. I asked

1785
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 1: for a dollar. I was really I was very much,

1786
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:40,040
Speaker 1: very much a key element in that first deal because

1787
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 1: I knew the record business more than any of them.

1788
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:45,120
Speaker 1: Im I didn't know the record business. The big argument

1789
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:47,599
Speaker 1: was I wanted the dollar an album and they said

1790
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:50,120
Speaker 1: that was impossible because they lie. They didn't know. I

1791
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: letter I worked the press. They're gonna tell me I

1792
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 1: will cost to make a record, So I knew I

1793
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:58,559
Speaker 1: won im and was sweating with his white ten dollar

1794
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 1: salta handkerchiefs on his ballhead. He was president and I

1795
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 1: was saying this, But we ended up getting a dollar

1796
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 1: an album and uh form Rolling Stones Records. Okay, before,

1797
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:12,799
Speaker 1: just for one second, rumor is you took less money

1798
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:16,479
Speaker 1: from Atlantic in advance to be in Atlantics. That true? No,

1799
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:20,599
Speaker 1: not true, not in my mind. No. We never even

1800
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 1: no negotiated any further with anyone. That was it. That

1801
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 1: was it in my mind. I mean, you know, maybe

1802
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 1: Prince Rupert got an offer from Depic and that, you know,

1803
01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 1: maybe I forgot it and we decided to forget it.

1804
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 1: I wanted Atlantic because they were my friends. You know,

1805
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: they were an India. I could work with them. You know,

1806
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go. I hate the majors that

1807
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:45,920
Speaker 1: hate him to this day. You know, I don't hate them.

1808
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm an Indie. I liked it. I don't

1809
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:52,559
Speaker 1: like the board of people twenty opinions. I'm not like that.

1810
01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:54,720
Speaker 1: I still am not right now. I mean, you know,

1811
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm a different So I never wanted to be involved

1812
01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:01,360
Speaker 1: with the Majors. Um. I just like the end and

1813
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 1: we were just a very warm, symbiotic, wonderful relationship. Okay,

1814
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:10,599
Speaker 1: so the first record, The Stones put out a Sticky Fingers,

1815
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:13,160
Speaker 1: which is bigger than anything that I worked I worked

1816
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 1: out before you had before it. Wait, wait, before you

1817
01:40:15,120 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 1: get there was part of your deal that you would

1818
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: put out records yourself or we were gonna have Rolling

1819
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 1: Stones Records, and I was gonna be able to I

1820
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:26,680
Speaker 1: owned a part of Rolling Stones Records that we were

1821
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 1: gonna have other artists. We had even talked about putting

1822
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 1: giving Jimmy Jimmy Hendricks. He he was available outside of

1823
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:37,800
Speaker 1: the US, and we talked about putting him, giving him

1824
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,800
Speaker 1: his own logo like the Stones head and that, you know,

1825
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:43,639
Speaker 1: he was so special. And then he died. I remember

1826
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,240
Speaker 1: being in Rotterdown when we heard the news that he died.

1827
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 1: So that ended. But but then what happened is they

1828
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 1: realized they had no money, Dad Alan, they had nothing.

1829
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 1: They had these big corporate checkbooks in their minds They

1830
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:01,320
Speaker 1: thought that may own those companies because they had these

1831
01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:04,240
Speaker 1: corporate chef which they could write checks. They owned their

1832
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: houses and cars, but they didn't own their own ship

1833
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 1: at all. And it ended up that they had no

1834
01:41:09,920 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 1: money even for a living. They were broke. So Prince Rupert,

1835
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:17,080
Speaker 1: we had, you know, when we realized all that, they

1836
01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:19,639
Speaker 1: called me in and said, there can't be either artists

1837
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 1: on the label. There's no money and you have to this.

1838
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:25,439
Speaker 1: We'll let you out. I had a contract. There was

1839
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 1: a Mike Tannon, a great music lawyer. He was an

1840
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:32,640
Speaker 1: assistant lawyer at the Arrow Ornstein firm and he was

1841
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:35,400
Speaker 1: a lawyer learning, a young lawyer. He became my lawyer.

1842
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:38,559
Speaker 1: Later he was Paul Simon lawyer. I mean he you know,

1843
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:43,600
Speaker 1: he really worked. He became a big music lawyer. Um.

1844
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,040
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, they said, we'll let you out of

1845
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:49,240
Speaker 1: your contract. We can't have a label, but you could stay.

1846
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,120
Speaker 1: You know you want to stay, you know with the

1847
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:53,720
Speaker 1: Stones you could do what you could do, what you want.

1848
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:56,840
Speaker 1: We'd love you to stay. And I said, I'm staying.

1849
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,120
Speaker 1: That's rock and roll. I'm loving it, you know, I'm

1850
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 1: loving I'm about around the world and meeting famous artists

1851
01:42:03,040 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 1: and people I never even dreampt about authors artists. Uh.

1852
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:11,120
Speaker 1: Their crowd was amazing for you know, sub Royalty Pipe,

1853
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 1: the Guinness kids, you know, oh they they they you know,

1854
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:20,000
Speaker 1: they had a lot of starfuckers around them. Um anyway,

1855
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:22,760
Speaker 1: uh yeah, So I decided to stay and I made

1856
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 1: that my life. Man, I made that my life. I

1857
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: I in my mind that was the seventh or eighth

1858
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone. I went on the plane. I still lived

1859
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:33,280
Speaker 1: at Key's house. I stayed with make it Mozart's house

1860
01:42:33,280 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: in the south of France. Um. I was like, you know,

1861
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:41,439
Speaker 1: part of the family for those years. Uh. Then towards

1862
01:42:41,439 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 1: the end, drugs got involved, which you know, which sort

1863
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:47,960
Speaker 1: of tell everything. And then I quit because I quit.

1864
01:42:48,520 --> 01:42:51,640
Speaker 1: I quit because the quitting story is just this, you know,

1865
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:54,559
Speaker 1: I just it was time to change channels. I was

1866
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:59,879
Speaker 1: very embarrassed about my drug problems, and my drug problems

1867
01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:03,599
Speaker 1: I can't and you know, years later I did. I

1868
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:06,280
Speaker 1: was lucky enough to take when I was trying to

1869
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 1: kick all the drugs. I ended up getting turned onto

1870
01:43:08,920 --> 01:43:12,599
Speaker 1: one of the fathers of LSD psychotherapy, which is now

1871
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 1: in vogue. Um. And he saw me a year before

1872
01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:19,599
Speaker 1: he took acid with me. He took it with me

1873
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:22,200
Speaker 1: and Harry hermone You could look him up. There's a

1874
01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 1: couple of things online. Dr hermone Um. He said, I'll

1875
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 1: lead you to why you like that ship? It was

1876
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:33,160
Speaker 1: all because he sold the company. Oh my god. I

1877
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:35,720
Speaker 1: mean I had all that subconscious, deep pain, you know,

1878
01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:39,760
Speaker 1: because he took away my legacy, took it away. You know.

1879
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:42,679
Speaker 1: I went back to that meeting being the record businesses

1880
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:45,200
Speaker 1: as years and this called me up and saying we're

1881
01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:48,919
Speaker 1: selling it, you know that. But something that really affected

1882
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:51,880
Speaker 1: me in a horrible pain, in a deep well of pain.

1883
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:56,040
Speaker 1: But once I realized that that's what why I like drugs,

1884
01:43:56,120 --> 01:43:59,600
Speaker 1: that was the pain I was killing, I dumped it instantly.

1885
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 1: It was very good. That was a great I mean

1886
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:06,639
Speaker 1: it was shocking how once you realize the seed of something,

1887
01:44:07,240 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 1: how it becomes irrelevant, you know. But yeah, so that

1888
01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 1: that that I left the Stones mainly because I I would.

1889
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:16,519
Speaker 1: I didn't like myself. I didn't talk to my uncle

1890
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:20,320
Speaker 1: for three years. I was embarrassed, you know, I was embarrassed.

1891
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:22,439
Speaker 1: You know, it was not my you know what I

1892
01:44:22,520 --> 01:44:25,600
Speaker 1: went and it was bad. I was killing pain that

1893
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 1: didn't even know what it was. And uh so that ended.

1894
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 1: And then I, you know, I went out with arc

1895
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:32,759
Speaker 1: music in my life and all kinds of other new things.

1896
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:34,880
Speaker 1: But that was a great I would do it again,

1897
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:37,560
Speaker 1: even with the drugs. That was great, a great experience.

1898
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:39,680
Speaker 1: The Stones have nothing to do. The only thing the

1899
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,679
Speaker 1: Stones did was uh because the drugs were around everyone.

1900
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 1: Every record executive was collapsing with cocaine, are you kidding?

1901
01:44:48,160 --> 01:44:51,120
Speaker 1: I went to fifty dinners with guys, would go to

1902
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:53,040
Speaker 1: the bathroom, know when we'd eat the food to to

1903
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:55,599
Speaker 1: you know, if you still you know. So it wasn't

1904
01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:58,960
Speaker 1: just me, you know, but U being around the Stones

1905
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,920
Speaker 1: and all the group He's constantly bringing you know. And

1906
01:45:01,960 --> 01:45:04,320
Speaker 1: then I lived with Keith. But I have no blaming

1907
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,640
Speaker 1: them what's or ever? You know, in a way, in

1908
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,639
Speaker 1: a way I have. In fact, I don't even regret

1909
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:13,840
Speaker 1: my drug period. I grew in it because I beat it,

1910
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,439
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like climbing mountain evers that changes

1911
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: you too, you know. Um yeah, I don't regret it.

1912
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:24,320
Speaker 1: Um was it was a waste, but I managed to

1913
01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:27,439
Speaker 1: have all number one records, you know, and uh, okay,

1914
01:45:27,479 --> 01:45:30,280
Speaker 1: so the first record is Sticky Fingers, which is certainly

1915
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:34,200
Speaker 1: a great record. To what degree were a record? To

1916
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:37,400
Speaker 1: what degree were you involved in that when you and

1917
01:45:37,479 --> 01:45:41,840
Speaker 1: to what degree were you responsible for the success? I

1918
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 1: think I was, but you know who knows it's my

1919
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:50,000
Speaker 1: own ego. Probably yeah, I was totally one and two

1920
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:54,160
Speaker 1: involved with that record. It's my first taste of takeout

1921
01:45:54,200 --> 01:45:58,559
Speaker 1: Indians though the Olympic Studios Glynn John's um No, it

1922
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 1: was a great record. In fact that later recently, after

1923
01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:04,040
Speaker 1: forty nine years in my car, for the last two years,

1924
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:06,599
Speaker 1: I've already been playing music. I go in my car

1925
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 1: for rides in the mountains. I only play what I,

1926
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:12,240
Speaker 1: my family or me have been associated with for two

1927
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:15,960
Speaker 1: years straight, only for memories. It's shocking when I played

1928
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:19,960
Speaker 1: the Stone but started with it was the sixtieth anniversary

1929
01:46:19,960 --> 01:46:23,679
Speaker 1: of Exile on Main Street and BBC did a big,

1930
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, production show on it. They called me up.

1931
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:28,640
Speaker 1: They said, well, there's already a handful of guys that

1932
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,960
Speaker 1: were alive now that we're around that you know um

1933
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:33,960
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I haven't played the fucker in

1934
01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:37,240
Speaker 1: forty nine years. So I had I had a brand

1935
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 1: new vinyl coffee and I still love the speakers in

1936
01:46:40,280 --> 01:46:43,400
Speaker 1: my living room now that I auditioned that album for

1937
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: in l A at my house on San Marco Drive.

1938
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 1: They were Stevie Wonders speakers that I had rented from

1939
01:46:50,120 --> 01:46:53,160
Speaker 1: Westlake Studio because he had returned them because his new

1940
01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:55,360
Speaker 1: girlfriend didn't like the way they looked in his house.

1941
01:46:55,880 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 1: So I had rented them for this promo party, and

1942
01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:00,719
Speaker 1: I dragged. I still have my ended up by him.

1943
01:47:00,760 --> 01:47:03,679
Speaker 1: But I got in my living room and I blasted Exile,

1944
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:06,720
Speaker 1: and I was shocked. I wanted to call Keith. I'm

1945
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:10,559
Speaker 1: gonna still talk to him about it because it's brilliant.

1946
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm just so thrilled that I was even involved in

1947
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:15,680
Speaker 1: Sticky Fingers and Exile. Those are brilliant records, you know.

1948
01:47:16,320 --> 01:47:19,120
Speaker 1: And I ended up driving around getting you know, eighty

1949
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:21,280
Speaker 1: miles an hour in my car, blessing them, you know.

1950
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: But I hadn't played him in almost fifty years and

1951
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:27,400
Speaker 1: they held up great, you know. Um. But yeah, I

1952
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:30,599
Speaker 1: was totally involved with Atlantic with the cover, you know,

1953
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:34,200
Speaker 1: getting that zipper cover made. It was highly complex. Luckily,

1954
01:47:34,200 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 1: one of my best friends who sold me album Stickers

1955
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:40,120
Speaker 1: in Chicago was a guy named Craig Braun who was

1956
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:43,439
Speaker 1: the father of the custom album cover, the Andy Warhol

1957
01:47:43,439 --> 01:47:47,599
Speaker 1: Banana Cheaching, Cheaching, Chong, Big Bamboo, all those custom covers.

1958
01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:51,439
Speaker 1: So it was craigging another competitor. They were, you know.

1959
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:53,880
Speaker 1: Next we gave it to Craig for me. I asked

1960
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:56,559
Speaker 1: next week. I told him Craig was a friend of mine,

1961
01:47:57,040 --> 01:47:59,439
Speaker 1: you gotta give it to him. He did, and we

1962
01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 1: had We had a lot of trouble. We had to

1963
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:03,599
Speaker 1: get garment district people to put the zipper in. Then

1964
01:48:03,680 --> 01:48:09,040
Speaker 1: we did test shipments and the zipper, the zipper and

1965
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,599
Speaker 1: up was causing a hitting the groove. Then we had

1966
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 1: to get all the on zippers unzipped so would be

1967
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:18,040
Speaker 1: on the label parn. It was complex and we paid.

1968
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 1: I paid Andy Warrel five thousand bucks for that design,

1969
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:24,080
Speaker 1: but we had a convert it to make it, you know,

1970
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:26,960
Speaker 1: and Mike introduced me to Andy. Those are the kind

1971
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:30,639
Speaker 1: of people I was meeting man, Andy Warhol, Man Ray

1972
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:33,320
Speaker 1: in Paris, you know, all for album covers. He's famous.

1973
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:37,519
Speaker 1: They all wanted to do stones covers. Hitler's filmmaker Lenny

1974
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:42,800
Speaker 1: Russian stock She I went to talk to her. Yeah,

1975
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:46,120
Speaker 1: so you know that I was involved with the making

1976
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 1: of the album. Then with the logo of the tongue

1977
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,280
Speaker 1: and lips. Yeah, all that, that was all the beginning.

1978
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:54,320
Speaker 1: That was I was. I lived it. It was twenty

1979
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:59,000
Speaker 1: four hours a day. I and uh, I you know

1980
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:01,840
Speaker 1: I was. That was my I looked at myself then

1981
01:49:02,400 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 1: as a rolling stone and that was my job. That

1982
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:10,080
Speaker 1: was my instrument. I wanted to be as good as them. Huh.

1983
01:49:10,439 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 1: The big victory lap was the seventy two tour. There

1984
01:49:13,560 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 1: was unbelievable publicity. What do you remember about that other

1985
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:21,000
Speaker 1: than playing with Stevie Wonder, etcetera. It was great. It

1986
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 1: was remember the birthday mixed birthday with Stevie Wonder. I

1987
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:28,880
Speaker 1: I set that up because again you know again it's

1988
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:32,960
Speaker 1: it's my ego. But Youret Abner was the president of Motown.

1989
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:35,559
Speaker 1: You know who that is? You were? He was the president.

1990
01:49:35,960 --> 01:49:38,360
Speaker 1: He was the president of VEJ. I knw him from Chicago.

1991
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:42,120
Speaker 1: He was another one of those high society Chicago black people.

1992
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:45,080
Speaker 1: And but we were good friends. We used to go

1993
01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:47,920
Speaker 1: to Bat's Jewish restaurant, meet there all the time, once

1994
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:50,280
Speaker 1: or twice a week when he was at VJ. But

1995
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:54,080
Speaker 1: he lost VJ Las Vegas shooting craps. You know, I

1996
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 1: knew him well. He was when I got picked up

1997
01:49:56,840 --> 01:49:58,880
Speaker 1: the award of the Rocketroll Hall of Fame, my father,

1998
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 1: he was the presenter. I asked for him to be

1999
01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 1: the prisoner. He was a good friend. But I went

2000
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:06,320
Speaker 1: to him. I said, let's do a double fucking album.

2001
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:09,559
Speaker 1: Get Stevie on the tour. He's never been exposed to

2002
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:12,960
Speaker 1: the Stones audience, and we'll do a double album. And

2003
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:15,120
Speaker 1: I made a deal to do it, and we did,

2004
01:50:15,160 --> 01:50:18,240
Speaker 1: and it fell through at the very end. They backed out.

2005
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 1: Atlantic couldn't do it. It was it was gonna be

2006
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:23,080
Speaker 1: a double albument. It was in production and ready you know.

2007
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:26,720
Speaker 1: Uh and that never happened. But uh, yeah, so that

2008
01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, so that that was a great tour the whole.

2009
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:34,640
Speaker 1: It was just so exciting that on that tour you

2010
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:39,000
Speaker 1: had Jackie o' nascius's sister, you had Truman Capponi. Oh,

2011
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:42,719
Speaker 1: Truman Capponi, who hated me. He said I had fat

2012
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:48,320
Speaker 1: Jewish thighs. He hated me because where where did he write? Where? What?

2013
01:50:48,320 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: What stay? Was in Oklahoma or Kansas? Where that was?

2014
01:50:51,640 --> 01:50:56,040
Speaker 1: You know, Kansas, Kansas. Yeah, so when we played in Kansas,

2015
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:58,800
Speaker 1: he was there, of course, and he wanted to come

2016
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 1: right on the edge of the stage and I stopped him,

2017
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:06,479
Speaker 1: and he hated me for that, and then I'm that

2018
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:10,240
Speaker 1: tour he came. He came to New Orleans and Keith

2019
01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 1: Richards and Bobby Keys Pete all over his hotel room,

2020
01:51:13,439 --> 01:51:15,240
Speaker 1: so he stepped on it when he opened his door.

2021
01:51:16,080 --> 01:51:18,840
Speaker 1: He was in love with Bobby Keys. He wanted that.

2022
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:21,280
Speaker 1: You know, I remember we're all in the same hotel

2023
01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:27,480
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. Yeah, Truman, Campodi, Peter Beard with the photographer. UM,

2024
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:32,880
Speaker 1: so many people. Uh you know the thing about uh

2025
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:35,960
Speaker 1: you know I got I would get to get tickets

2026
01:51:36,000 --> 01:51:38,559
Speaker 1: I got so they bullshit you. Those people I got

2027
01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:43,120
Speaker 1: invited once to um it wasn't Jackie Ones? Is their sister?

2028
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 1: What was her name? Lee? Yeah, she was married to

2029
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:50,280
Speaker 1: Peter Beard, the photographer, and I had gone to see

2030
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:53,519
Speaker 1: him about covers. He was in Africa then shooting elephants

2031
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:57,040
Speaker 1: and girafts and uh so I got a call from

2032
01:51:57,160 --> 01:52:00,759
Speaker 1: Archy said we're having a party of cock tail party.

2033
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 1: Do you want to come by? I said, oh, my god,

2034
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:05,680
Speaker 1: who's gonna be there? And then she said, oh, by

2035
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:09,599
Speaker 1: the way, we get backstage passes. You know, that's how

2036
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,720
Speaker 1: they operate so I got invited to the party, but

2037
01:52:12,760 --> 01:52:15,680
Speaker 1: I had to get them passes. That whole crowd, you know,

2038
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:18,880
Speaker 1: and so what have you know? That's we were. We

2039
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:23,720
Speaker 1: wrote a song about them, starfuckers, that they're about them.

2040
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:25,720
Speaker 1: We had too we they don't even know. We had

2041
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 1: two dressing rooms. We had one for the starfuckers who

2042
01:52:28,560 --> 01:52:32,400
Speaker 1: thought they were in the backstage, and another hidden one

2043
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:41,400
Speaker 1: where the real friends hung out. What happened to the

2044
01:52:41,439 --> 01:52:48,120
Speaker 1: movie Cocksucker Blues? What happened? It got? Well, oh no,

2045
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,640
Speaker 1: that's a whole this could be another whole show for you.

2046
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:55,320
Speaker 1: So the Stones introduced me. Mick and Keith say, had

2047
01:52:55,360 --> 01:52:58,760
Speaker 1: I ever seen a book called The Americans? No fucking way,

2048
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:02,759
Speaker 1: am and you from Chicago. I'm not looking at photography books.

2049
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 1: What's the Americans? They pulled it, they showed me. I

2050
01:53:06,280 --> 01:53:09,320
Speaker 1: think it was Keith who showed me. It's a it's

2051
01:53:09,439 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 1: Robert Frank on the glowing with Jack carolluact the famous

2052
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:14,920
Speaker 1: beating Nick and it's a it's on the road his

2053
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 1: famous book. And Robert Frank travels with him and comes

2054
01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 1: out with a code book called the Americans, which are

2055
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:26,200
Speaker 1: all black and white. So he says, uh, we why

2056
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:28,559
Speaker 1: don't we get Robert Frank to do the cover the

2057
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:32,280
Speaker 1: Exile and Main Street cover. Um, it would be great,

2058
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:34,479
Speaker 1: look at it, look at his photographs, you know. So

2059
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:36,720
Speaker 1: I tracked down Robert Frank in New York and the

2060
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:41,439
Speaker 1: bower He lived Bowery, Remember, well, he wasn't amazed. He

2061
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:43,479
Speaker 1: was he was one of them. He was probably one

2062
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,599
Speaker 1: of the most major factors in my own consciousness in life.

2063
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:50,599
Speaker 1: We became very close friends. Another Jewish guy a little

2064
01:53:50,640 --> 01:53:53,439
Speaker 1: older than me. His father was applying Steeler in Zurich

2065
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:57,840
Speaker 1: or something, you know, Jewish Applian Steeler. He was a

2066
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:02,799
Speaker 1: beat nick and he shot the cover with He didn't

2067
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:07,080
Speaker 1: use his fancy like anymore. He was shooting instant instant cameras,

2068
01:54:07,240 --> 01:54:09,599
Speaker 1: not Kodak, I mean Code acted when they first came

2069
01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:12,640
Speaker 1: out with thirty five millimeter point and shoot. He was

2070
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:16,080
Speaker 1: using that and so he he uh, you know, he

2071
01:54:16,120 --> 01:54:18,960
Speaker 1: shot the cover and the Stones loved all the shots.

2072
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:22,040
Speaker 1: My pictures on it. Twice. I'm on that cover, you know,

2073
01:54:22,080 --> 01:54:24,479
Speaker 1: which is amazing. My daughter she was a big blow

2074
01:54:24,560 --> 01:54:27,000
Speaker 1: up of it, you know. Uh in our house was

2075
01:54:27,120 --> 01:54:30,640
Speaker 1: my little like wouldn't recognize me then, But yeah, I

2076
01:54:30,680 --> 01:54:34,040
Speaker 1: became very close with Robert Frank, and then we were

2077
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:36,480
Speaker 1: in l A. And then they said, well, why don't

2078
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:41,680
Speaker 1: we do a movie? And I said, great man, they

2079
01:54:41,720 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: had seen that my Bodiddley movie I told you I

2080
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:46,800
Speaker 1: made in sixty two. Not only did they see it,

2081
01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:50,880
Speaker 1: Ian Ian Stewart their manager, their original member and piano

2082
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:53,400
Speaker 1: player and road manager. He got a played on BBC

2083
01:54:53,600 --> 01:55:00,160
Speaker 1: two and you know one time and so you know, hey,

2084
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:02,920
Speaker 1: I said, what a movie. Pretty, I'll I'll let's do that.

2085
01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:05,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'll talk to Robert Frank, but I already

2086
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:08,120
Speaker 1: talked him about the cover and he loved the idea

2087
01:55:08,200 --> 01:55:10,080
Speaker 1: because he's you know, we just loved it. Was another

2088
01:55:10,360 --> 01:55:13,200
Speaker 1: going on tour with the Rolling Stones. He had all

2089
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:17,000
Speaker 1: kinds of ideas. Super eight cameras just came out. We'll

2090
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:19,440
Speaker 1: give each member of Super eight they can shoot. We'll

2091
01:55:19,560 --> 01:55:21,840
Speaker 1: edit it all later. You know what they shoot? When

2092
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 1: I shoot, I want to use Danny Seymour, who's also

2093
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:31,200
Speaker 1: got a fabulous book. Father is famous Broadway photographer Seymour.

2094
01:55:31,240 --> 01:55:32,640
Speaker 1: If you go to any of those places, the black

2095
01:55:32,640 --> 01:55:37,320
Speaker 1: and whites of all the Broadway characters. Seymour was married

2096
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:40,680
Speaker 1: to a socialite from Cape. You know, from Rima Kennedy's

2097
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:44,880
Speaker 1: Hyanna supporters somewhere. He was an unusual guy. We also

2098
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,560
Speaker 1: became he was a junkie though, and Robert said, he's

2099
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:50,440
Speaker 1: a junkie. I want to use him a second camera

2100
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:54,520
Speaker 1: and sound. Um, I want to use him. But he's

2101
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:56,720
Speaker 1: a junkie. But I'm sure he'll he'll clean up. I'll

2102
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 1: get him to clean up. So I meet Danny Seymour

2103
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:02,320
Speaker 1: and I make a deal. I go to Warner's film

2104
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:05,400
Speaker 1: I forget the old guy there. Oh god, I can't

2105
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:10,520
Speaker 1: remember that. Anyway, I made a deal. Uh were they paid?

2106
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:13,680
Speaker 1: I think it was a hundred thousand dollar advance for

2107
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 1: first refusal rights to the film and um, which they

2108
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:21,840
Speaker 1: ended up refusing actually, but at the time, and we

2109
01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:25,839
Speaker 1: went out and we went and made the film, and uh,

2110
01:56:26,120 --> 01:56:29,280
Speaker 1: you know it was It was amazing. Although as we

2111
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:33,160
Speaker 1: beat the tour began, Robert became disenchanted more and more

2112
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 1: with the Stones, with the whole life, with the drugs.

2113
01:56:38,200 --> 01:56:40,840
Speaker 1: Danny went back on drugs. We found the shoes at

2114
01:56:40,840 --> 01:56:44,920
Speaker 1: the curb. I did some of the sound with Inaugura. Um,

2115
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 1: so it became weird. But my main experience told but

2116
01:56:50,080 --> 01:56:52,600
Speaker 1: Robert Frank He used to give me books to re

2117
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:54,560
Speaker 1: keep the River on the right. That was the one

2118
01:56:54,840 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 1: that's where about the Amazon. And I ended up going

2119
01:56:57,320 --> 01:56:59,360
Speaker 1: twice because of that book. When he turned me onto,

2120
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, to take ayahuasca. He was into it forty

2121
01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:07,360
Speaker 1: years ago. So Robert Frank turned me on two books, music,

2122
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,360
Speaker 1: all kinds of hippie. He told me I was fucked up.

2123
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:14,680
Speaker 1: He said, you are fucked up man. He said, you

2124
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:16,720
Speaker 1: don't even know who you are. You know, you know

2125
01:57:16,760 --> 01:57:21,720
Speaker 1: he saw my construct, this ego centric guy. You know,

2126
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:25,240
Speaker 1: yes it was. I was just at the top of

2127
01:57:25,280 --> 01:57:31,280
Speaker 1: my game of being great, you know. And uh so

2128
01:57:31,720 --> 01:57:34,080
Speaker 1: in Texas is that we have to do live. We

2129
01:57:34,160 --> 01:57:37,320
Speaker 1: need the live for the we can't do the live soundtrack.

2130
01:57:38,320 --> 01:57:41,800
Speaker 1: I call up Yoko Ono and John. They had a

2131
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 1: film company on White Street in New York because I

2132
01:57:44,520 --> 01:57:47,080
Speaker 1: use They had a Steve Gibbard. They had a film

2133
01:57:47,120 --> 01:57:51,200
Speaker 1: crew hit by this guy, Steve grab Gibbard, Bob Bob,

2134
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:54,280
Speaker 1: I forget his last name. He mad, if I don't

2135
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:57,760
Speaker 1: mention it anyway, Um, yeah, you can use the crew.

2136
01:57:58,080 --> 01:58:00,320
Speaker 1: Just pay him. You know, we're not doing any thing now.

2137
01:58:00,320 --> 01:58:03,680
Speaker 1: They had some people on weekly salary whatever a camera,

2138
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:08,320
Speaker 1: couple of cameraman whatever. So they came to Texas, and

2139
01:58:10,360 --> 01:58:12,600
Speaker 1: I knew that that's the way the Stones work is

2140
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 1: by the third or fourth gig on a tour, the

2141
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:20,800
Speaker 1: set is the sets locked, so it's the same every night,

2142
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:24,280
Speaker 1: like a Broadway play. It's exact. I mean Midnight Raveler,

2143
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:28,320
Speaker 1: he's whipping the floor. It's exact. It's exact. And I

2144
01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:30,680
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, I was fascinated by that. Actually,

2145
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:33,960
Speaker 1: the whole construction of the tour. How we used to

2146
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:37,760
Speaker 1: talk after the first one and and I love that

2147
01:58:38,160 --> 01:58:40,600
Speaker 1: I was being involved in something creative and new, and

2148
01:58:40,640 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 1: I just loved it. Anyway, we would talk about it

2149
01:58:44,120 --> 01:58:48,600
Speaker 1: and uh, and okay, we do the same set every night.

2150
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:52,080
Speaker 1: So when we did Texas, I said, I have an idea,

2151
01:58:53,000 --> 01:58:56,640
Speaker 1: Steve Gebhard, the two cameraman, give them headsets with me,

2152
01:58:56,720 --> 01:58:59,880
Speaker 1: and I'll tell them every mixed coming out in one

2153
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:02,040
Speaker 1: in it and kneel down so they know where to

2154
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:04,800
Speaker 1: aim their cameras. It was like me calling the shots

2155
01:59:04,960 --> 01:59:08,640
Speaker 1: because I knew that that I did that the set

2156
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:12,080
Speaker 1: ends in Dallas or Houston. We had two gigs. We're

2157
01:59:12,120 --> 01:59:16,600
Speaker 1: recording with a live truck, you know, live mobile. I

2158
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:18,880
Speaker 1: get out to get in our limo with my crew,

2159
01:59:19,240 --> 01:59:22,960
Speaker 1: the Yoko Ono crew. Right. We had two big black

2160
01:59:23,680 --> 01:59:28,160
Speaker 1: security guys there. Uh, I don't know. I can't remember

2161
01:59:28,200 --> 01:59:30,720
Speaker 1: their name. At the moment um, it will come to me.

2162
01:59:31,120 --> 01:59:34,360
Speaker 1: Although it's not important. This one guy steps in front

2163
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:37,320
Speaker 1: of me, Man, this is our car. You can't this

2164
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:39,360
Speaker 1: isn't for your car. He was, you know, he and

2165
01:59:39,400 --> 01:59:42,280
Speaker 1: I lost my temper at him, completely lost my temper.

2166
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:46,560
Speaker 1: Motherfucker's his micro Okay that and then we ended up

2167
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:49,400
Speaker 1: getting a car. We left three or four days later.

2168
01:59:49,640 --> 01:59:53,320
Speaker 1: In those days, it wasn't like video. You you shot,

2169
01:59:53,440 --> 01:59:56,120
Speaker 1: you sent the negative to the New Yorker somewhere, they'd

2170
01:59:56,160 --> 01:59:58,560
Speaker 1: send you Russia's back in two days, and you look

2171
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 1: at what you got. Robert Franks has come out in

2172
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:04,440
Speaker 1: this room, Marshall. I go in the room. He's got

2173
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:06,280
Speaker 1: a projector and there's a little speed. He's looking at

2174
02:00:06,280 --> 02:00:09,480
Speaker 1: the rushes, you know. He says, sit down, and he

2175
02:00:09,680 --> 02:00:13,520
Speaker 1: hits the button, and it's me losing my temper. Without audio,

2176
02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:17,040
Speaker 1: my face was ugly, like the devil, like a monster.

2177
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:21,040
Speaker 1: Close up of me in full a temper tantrum. Yeah,

2178
02:00:21,040 --> 02:00:23,720
Speaker 1: I couldn't even took me five times to look at it.

2179
02:00:24,200 --> 02:00:27,720
Speaker 1: That bloom. I mean, I can't tell you. It affected

2180
02:00:27,760 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 1: my whole life from that moment on, you know. And

2181
02:00:30,880 --> 02:00:33,600
Speaker 1: uh so he did stuff like that that he was

2182
02:00:33,680 --> 02:00:35,480
Speaker 1: like my surro good father. I went to just to

2183
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:37,680
Speaker 1: go see him in the Bowery. We did the editing

2184
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:40,320
Speaker 1: in the bar. We rented our own table, uh you know,

2185
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:42,080
Speaker 1: with a couple of local kids that he hired to

2186
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:45,000
Speaker 1: do the editing. Then the Stones were in. Uh So

2187
02:00:45,200 --> 02:00:48,520
Speaker 1: the first edit, I was involved in the editing. And

2188
02:00:48,600 --> 02:00:50,640
Speaker 1: you know, no one knew what he got. He's the

2189
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: father of realism. We got we were taking people with

2190
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:56,560
Speaker 1: debbing sex, the doctor on the plane, the baggage guy

2191
02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:59,360
Speaker 1: eating pussy with the girl on his shoulders on the plane.

2192
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:01,880
Speaker 1: I'm recording it. You know, we had that. No one

2193
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:05,440
Speaker 1: knew what it was gonna be. So we were in Munich, Germany,

2194
02:01:05,480 --> 02:01:08,120
Speaker 1: and I came from New York with a you know,

2195
02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:11,400
Speaker 1: with a reel of film sixteen millimeter I guess whatever.

2196
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:14,640
Speaker 1: I think it was super sixteen or sixteen. And they

2197
02:01:14,640 --> 02:01:16,880
Speaker 1: sat in this screening room and I put it on.

2198
02:01:17,080 --> 02:01:19,720
Speaker 1: They hated they, oh my god, they didn't like it.

2199
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:22,880
Speaker 1: They felt like I did, seeing myself losing my temper.

2200
02:01:23,120 --> 02:01:24,960
Speaker 1: They didn't like a lot of it. There was some

2201
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:27,080
Speaker 1: stuff with me, you know, they we they just didn't

2202
02:01:27,080 --> 02:01:31,480
Speaker 1: like it. So they wanted a lot of edits and

2203
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, they said what they wanted, and Ahmed would say,

2204
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:38,839
Speaker 1: cut out. There was pictures of armed snorting and smoking.

2205
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:41,320
Speaker 1: Cut that out, please, I beg you, Marshall, I did.

2206
02:01:41,640 --> 02:01:44,840
Speaker 1: I threw it on the floor for him. He went

2207
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:47,520
Speaker 1: to my Missville, I want to you know, Uh, no

2208
02:01:47,520 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 1: one wanted to be be shot that way, you know,

2209
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:53,080
Speaker 1: and uh so then so then you know, there was

2210
02:01:53,120 --> 02:01:55,440
Speaker 1: a whole scene about the film and they didn't you know,

2211
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:58,040
Speaker 1: they didn't want it out. They thought it was you know,

2212
02:01:58,840 --> 02:02:01,800
Speaker 1: it showed too much drugs and him watch weirdness and

2213
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:04,440
Speaker 1: even though it was highly real. But I will admit

2214
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 1: Robert frank and he admitted this to me. He as

2215
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:12,400
Speaker 1: he became more malcontent with the tour, his the way

2216
02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:15,560
Speaker 1: he edited and shot became malcontent. In other words, he

2217
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:18,880
Speaker 1: left out the Magnificent seven ship, all the fun, all

2218
02:02:18,880 --> 02:02:21,480
Speaker 1: the laughter. He left a lot of that out. You know,

2219
02:02:21,560 --> 02:02:23,760
Speaker 1: we were having a good time, you know, um the

2220
02:02:23,800 --> 02:02:27,480
Speaker 1: group he's uh, the music, he left a lot out.

2221
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:30,120
Speaker 1: He got more into the how fucked it was, you know,

2222
02:02:30,160 --> 02:02:33,640
Speaker 1: the whole Rolling Stones just it wasn't that healthy to him.

2223
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:35,680
Speaker 1: What it was the opposite of the beat nick thing.

2224
02:02:35,720 --> 02:02:39,040
Speaker 1: You know. He didn't like it, um, but he knew

2225
02:02:39,080 --> 02:02:41,360
Speaker 1: it was a great document. He liked the film because

2226
02:02:41,400 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 1: he was real, you know. But so the Stones own

2227
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:47,680
Speaker 1: that they had the right warners refused on the option.

2228
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:51,600
Speaker 1: There was a four grand I had a four hundred grand.

2229
02:02:52,520 --> 02:02:55,320
Speaker 1: I own percent of that film. I had a four

2230
02:02:56,080 --> 02:03:01,480
Speaker 1: grand recoupment. Now that same guy did uh that. I

2231
02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:04,840
Speaker 1: hired my buddy from my dad's advertiser. He's from Robin

2232
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 1: Binzer who did Rotary Connection name and all that. He

2233
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:11,000
Speaker 1: called me up. He said, let me make a music

2234
02:03:11,040 --> 02:03:14,720
Speaker 1: film out of what Yoko. You know what what Yoko

2235
02:03:14,760 --> 02:03:17,360
Speaker 1: and Gubbard shot. We'll call it, Ladies and gentlemen, the

2236
02:03:17,440 --> 02:03:21,000
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones will make two films. I talked to the Stones. Yeah,

2237
02:03:21,120 --> 02:03:26,680
Speaker 1: great idea first music film. We'll tour it with. We're

2238
02:03:26,680 --> 02:03:28,920
Speaker 1: gonna open it in New York at the zig Field.

2239
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:33,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a rock concert sound system. And because

2240
02:03:33,120 --> 02:03:35,680
Speaker 1: of Alan there oh three m Game was the first

2241
02:03:35,720 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 1: stereo music track on our ladies and gentlemen. I can

2242
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:44,040
Speaker 1: remember that I went to the grand opening and Robins

2243
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:48,040
Speaker 1: sold it to this guy Miles, you could look it up.

2244
02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:50,680
Speaker 1: He sold it to a guy who blew it into

2245
02:03:50,800 --> 02:03:53,600
Speaker 1: this distribution of it and he couldn't you know, the

2246
02:03:53,600 --> 02:03:56,839
Speaker 1: guy blew it and the and the ladies and gentlemen

2247
02:03:56,880 --> 02:04:00,800
Speaker 1: thing collapsed. And so the Stones didn't want cock Sucker out.

2248
02:04:01,080 --> 02:04:03,640
Speaker 1: They made a deal. They could only be shown at

2249
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:06,320
Speaker 1: art like the Museum of Modern Art has shown it

2250
02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:09,360
Speaker 1: numerous times. It could be shown as film art with

2251
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:13,800
Speaker 1: Robert Franken attendance, you know, not commercially, not on HBO.

2252
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:16,920
Speaker 1: I've heard HBO offered am in advanced for it. I've

2253
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:21,120
Speaker 1: heard that I don't know, um in the meantime um

2254
02:04:21,560 --> 02:04:24,680
Speaker 1: a video when when videos VHS and all that was

2255
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:27,400
Speaker 1: the big thing video but you know, Blockbuster and all that.

2256
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,200
Speaker 1: A company just wanted to buy ladies and gentlemen the

2257
02:04:31,320 --> 02:04:34,360
Speaker 1: music part, and we sold it to him and they

2258
02:04:34,360 --> 02:04:37,000
Speaker 1: paid a million bucks. So I recouped the four hundred

2259
02:04:37,240 --> 02:04:41,200
Speaker 1: and I got my ten percent on the six hunter. Okay,

2260
02:04:41,320 --> 02:04:44,040
Speaker 1: what comes around goes around, and someday my kids will

2261
02:04:44,080 --> 02:04:46,840
Speaker 1: get money for Cocksucker. When it's on HBO because it

2262
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:49,000
Speaker 1: will be you know, once they can't get suit and

2263
02:04:49,040 --> 02:04:51,520
Speaker 1: they were all dead, you know, I mean there's a

2264
02:04:51,520 --> 02:04:53,040
Speaker 1: lot of ship in there. Because I didn't know, I

2265
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:54,760
Speaker 1: didn't get a lot a lot of it was my

2266
02:04:54,840 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 1: fault as producer. It was impossible to get releases. Willie

2267
02:04:59,240 --> 02:05:01,720
Speaker 1: the baggage man, and with the girl on his shoulder

2268
02:05:02,040 --> 02:05:04,520
Speaker 1: on the plane eating her, he wasn't gonna sign it

2269
02:05:04,600 --> 02:05:07,520
Speaker 1: re lease. He had a white and kids. You know, uh,

2270
02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:10,560
Speaker 1: you know there was there was a tour doctor who

2271
02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 1: was a sex maniac. He would have cards, white cards

2272
02:05:14,520 --> 02:05:17,080
Speaker 1: with the Rolling Stones logo the tongue, and he looked

2273
02:05:17,200 --> 02:05:19,400
Speaker 1: for the prettiest girls in the audience. And he's right.

2274
02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:22,040
Speaker 1: And then we in every city, we'd have our own suite.

2275
02:05:22,440 --> 02:05:26,240
Speaker 1: We'd want on a neutral suite called we We. We'd

2276
02:05:26,280 --> 02:05:29,480
Speaker 1: make it Mr White or Mr Yellow case anyone busted

2277
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:31,880
Speaker 1: us would been under no one's name because of drugs

2278
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:36,360
Speaker 1: or anything. So yes, So this guy, Larry, I don't

2279
02:05:36,400 --> 02:05:39,480
Speaker 1: gotta say his name, but the doctor um, he would

2280
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:41,480
Speaker 1: hand our cards to all these pretty girls. You'd say,

2281
02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:43,600
Speaker 1: you want to meet the Stones, come to this suite

2282
02:05:43,800 --> 02:05:47,280
Speaker 1: at midnight or some got girls that were there on dates.

2283
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:49,880
Speaker 1: He would maybe give out twenty cards. Five or six

2284
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:52,720
Speaker 1: would show up. It was shocking to meet nicker Keith

2285
02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:55,480
Speaker 1: or to screw him, you know, and they were never around.

2286
02:05:55,560 --> 02:05:58,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes they would take one. I was all this doctor

2287
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 1: would have his sweet pickings and would say, well, I

2288
02:06:00,640 --> 02:06:03,880
Speaker 1: would introduce you if you uh, you know, it was

2289
02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:06,640
Speaker 1: a trip. It was really a bizarre That tour was bizarre.

2290
02:06:07,280 --> 02:06:09,959
Speaker 1: And then the wives all came to visit us in Canada.

2291
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:13,640
Speaker 1: It was crazy. But uh, you know the whole that

2292
02:06:13,640 --> 02:06:15,680
Speaker 1: whole scene was crazy. That was the epitome of the

2293
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:19,200
Speaker 1: croupies and you know the claster casts. All that was

2294
02:06:19,240 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 1: going on. You know, Um, it was a lot of fun.

2295
02:06:22,240 --> 02:06:24,120
Speaker 1: That's why I say I would do it all over again,

2296
02:06:24,400 --> 02:06:27,440
Speaker 1: you know if I had to. But I'm glad I left.

2297
02:06:27,960 --> 02:06:33,760
Speaker 1: Well you're there, Mick Taylor's replacement guitarists. He ultimately leaves,

2298
02:06:34,600 --> 02:06:37,440
Speaker 1: and you know what was really going on amongst the band,

2299
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:41,080
Speaker 1: bill Wan, what was going on was Mick Taylor. Uh,

2300
02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, Mick Taylor. They got Mick Taylor because he's

2301
02:06:44,440 --> 02:06:49,360
Speaker 1: just so fucking brilliant of a guitarist and in my opinion,

2302
02:06:49,400 --> 02:06:53,480
Speaker 1: as a record producer. It was the best overall Stone

2303
02:06:53,560 --> 02:06:57,840
Speaker 1: sound because he played a less Paul, he played a

2304
02:06:57,880 --> 02:07:02,400
Speaker 1: whole other style of lead guitar and Keith he Uh.

2305
02:07:02,480 --> 02:07:07,280
Speaker 1: They they coexisted. Beautiful they're playing together, his his lead

2306
02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:10,800
Speaker 1: and mixed rhythm. Uh and mixed mix, I mean mix

2307
02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:15,000
Speaker 1: mixed lead and Keith's rhythm. To me as a record producer,

2308
02:07:15,200 --> 02:07:19,840
Speaker 1: it was just genius. Those tracks are brilliant and but

2309
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:21,880
Speaker 1: he couldn't take it. He couldn't take the pressure of

2310
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:25,360
Speaker 1: being a rolling Stone. And he had a wife, Rose,

2311
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:30,000
Speaker 1: who was very incestuous with other members, and I think

2312
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:34,440
Speaker 1: it totally destroyed a lot of his something he did

2313
02:07:34,480 --> 02:07:38,200
Speaker 1: not like being a rolling Stone. I remember one time

2314
02:07:38,200 --> 02:07:42,440
Speaker 1: he froze his his shoulders with freeze and he eventually quit.

2315
02:07:42,840 --> 02:07:45,880
Speaker 1: I went to Robert Stigwood, Mick and I went to

2316
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:50,919
Speaker 1: Robert Stigwood's house. Ahmard was there too, and Eric Clapton

2317
02:07:51,080 --> 02:07:53,640
Speaker 1: and they were all there at this party. Robert Stigwood

2318
02:07:53,640 --> 02:07:56,080
Speaker 1: gave and we went to Mick Taylor begging him to

2319
02:07:56,120 --> 02:07:58,880
Speaker 1: not leave, but he said he was leaving. And and

2320
02:07:58,960 --> 02:08:03,160
Speaker 1: then and then I saw, uh who it was. It

2321
02:08:03,200 --> 02:08:05,960
Speaker 1: wasn't Mick Taylor. It was someone that was so drunk

2322
02:08:06,000 --> 02:08:09,480
Speaker 1: and ripped. I'm matsued. It was a terrible but we left.

2323
02:08:09,480 --> 02:08:11,240
Speaker 1: We not you even needed that. That's when and I

2324
02:08:11,240 --> 02:08:14,840
Speaker 1: hadn't known Ron would We were friends before while rom

2325
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:16,840
Speaker 1: when he was in the Faces, Keith in introduced me

2326
02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:18,600
Speaker 1: to him. We go into his house. He had his

2327
02:08:18,600 --> 02:08:22,480
Speaker 1: own little studio. But Keith and Ron would they play

2328
02:08:22,480 --> 02:08:25,560
Speaker 1: a similar style? They're both brilliant, you know. In fact,

2329
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:28,000
Speaker 1: if I wanted, if I wanted to get into it,

2330
02:08:28,080 --> 02:08:32,080
Speaker 1: I have a great idea to produce them. Now. Then

2331
02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:34,160
Speaker 1: I have an idea for two rhythms that I have

2332
02:08:34,200 --> 02:08:35,520
Speaker 1: a great but I don't know if I want to

2333
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:38,560
Speaker 1: get into it. But I just with them again. But uh,

2334
02:08:38,800 --> 02:08:41,400
Speaker 1: I do have a concept that you know, and it

2335
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:43,760
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who the vocalist is. Just I have a

2336
02:08:43,800 --> 02:08:47,000
Speaker 1: great idea because I always felt they never took advantage

2337
02:08:47,480 --> 02:08:50,480
Speaker 1: of their similarity. Uh, and I thought they could do

2338
02:08:50,560 --> 02:08:54,320
Speaker 1: some amazing stuff if they if it was just directed right, Okay,

2339
02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:57,560
Speaker 1: so it ends with the stones. How do we get

2340
02:08:57,600 --> 02:09:00,200
Speaker 1: to today? How long does it take to pick yourself up?

2341
02:09:00,520 --> 02:09:02,680
Speaker 1: And what do you want to do there after? Oh?

2342
02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:04,480
Speaker 1: It ends with the stones. Yeah, it ends with the

2343
02:09:04,520 --> 02:09:10,440
Speaker 1: Stones and I I, uh quit the Stones. They were upset.

2344
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:12,520
Speaker 1: They thought, I'm You're quitting because of us. I said, no,

2345
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:15,480
Speaker 1: I'm not quit because of me. And I knew I

2346
02:09:15,480 --> 02:09:18,600
Speaker 1: wanted to stop the drugs. I'd tried many times during

2347
02:09:18,640 --> 02:09:21,680
Speaker 1: the last year and a half of the Stones, I

2348
02:09:21,720 --> 02:09:24,480
Speaker 1: had tried drugs stopping and failed. Went back, you know,

2349
02:09:25,040 --> 02:09:29,600
Speaker 1: stop went back, very difficult being around Keith who also

2350
02:09:29,680 --> 02:09:33,560
Speaker 1: was stopping, going back, stopping tour. It was difficult, um,

2351
02:09:33,680 --> 02:09:36,880
Speaker 1: And so I knew what happened is I uh. The

2352
02:09:37,080 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 1: ending scenario is uh, I would buy methodone from on

2353
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:44,360
Speaker 1: the black market in New York, and I knew a druggist.

2354
02:09:44,600 --> 02:09:49,440
Speaker 1: We all knew this druggist who uh yeah, he was

2355
02:09:49,520 --> 02:09:51,560
Speaker 1: part of us. We knew this druggist was a Rolling

2356
02:09:51,600 --> 02:09:53,920
Speaker 1: Stones groupie. And he would put it in a bottle

2357
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:55,879
Speaker 1: and make with a label like it was a Vitamin

2358
02:09:55,960 --> 02:09:58,520
Speaker 1: C tonic because I would get sick, you know, I

2359
02:09:58,560 --> 02:10:02,400
Speaker 1: was snorting heroin and stuff. And we were in Montrose, Switzerland,

2360
02:10:02,920 --> 02:10:06,920
Speaker 1: and Uh, I went to fancy five star hotel and

2361
02:10:06,960 --> 02:10:09,560
Speaker 1: I went to in the morning, I woke up feeling horrible.

2362
02:10:10,160 --> 02:10:12,880
Speaker 1: I went to the maybe after I opened that bottle

2363
02:10:12,880 --> 02:10:14,480
Speaker 1: and I drank it and I looked in the mirror.

2364
02:10:14,600 --> 02:10:17,640
Speaker 1: That was it. That night I quit. I saw myself

2365
02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:21,440
Speaker 1: all that acid. I guess did something Robert Frank. I

2366
02:10:21,480 --> 02:10:24,320
Speaker 1: saw myself the way I really was at that moment,

2367
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:27,720
Speaker 1: and I quit. That night I went we all went

2368
02:10:27,760 --> 02:10:29,920
Speaker 1: to Remember in the hotel room, telling him I was leaving.

2369
02:10:30,720 --> 02:10:32,920
Speaker 1: I said, otherwise I'm gonna die. It's not what I

2370
02:10:32,960 --> 02:10:36,120
Speaker 1: can't be here anymore. It's time. This w chapters and

2371
02:10:36,400 --> 02:10:38,320
Speaker 1: they said, oh, it's our not our fault. That's what

2372
02:10:38,360 --> 02:10:42,560
Speaker 1: I remember. It's not your fault, obviously. And I left.

2373
02:10:42,920 --> 02:10:46,280
Speaker 1: And then I came back to New York and I

2374
02:10:46,360 --> 02:10:48,240
Speaker 1: was having a hard time. I used to get seventy

2375
02:10:48,240 --> 02:10:50,960
Speaker 1: phone calls to day all the Ksano it was zero one.

2376
02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:54,280
Speaker 1: You know, no longer the guy. You know. That's what

2377
02:10:54,360 --> 02:10:56,520
Speaker 1: you learned when you're with the Stones. It's never about you.

2378
02:10:56,960 --> 02:11:00,640
Speaker 1: That's the part that destroys you. It's only about them.

2379
02:11:00,880 --> 02:11:03,320
Speaker 1: They make you think it's about you to get to them,

2380
02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:06,080
Speaker 1: but you gets easy to get sucked into that. Yeah,

2381
02:11:06,160 --> 02:11:09,200
Speaker 1: So once that was taken away. So anyway, I during

2382
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:11,240
Speaker 1: one of the last Stone store, I had met a

2383
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:14,520
Speaker 1: cocaine smuggler who lived in Bearsville, New York, couple where

2384
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:19,400
Speaker 1: I lived now near Woodstock. Not a dealer, smuggler, you know.

2385
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:24,000
Speaker 1: And his deal was he would supply drugs basically to

2386
02:11:24,160 --> 02:11:27,640
Speaker 1: Keith and me for front row tickets of every concert.

2387
02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:30,440
Speaker 1: He carried it from gig to gig in Europe. So

2388
02:11:30,520 --> 02:11:33,000
Speaker 1: that was great. You know. We also once had a

2389
02:11:33,080 --> 02:11:35,440
Speaker 1: C I X C I. A guy hearing it, you

2390
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:40,200
Speaker 1: don't know it wants to get busted. So anyway, I

2391
02:11:40,240 --> 02:11:42,920
Speaker 1: went up to I called the guy up. I said,

2392
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:44,840
Speaker 1: come you know, I'm coming on board and come come

2393
02:11:44,920 --> 02:11:46,880
Speaker 1: up here, man, come up you know. So I drove

2394
02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:52,240
Speaker 1: up from New York to Bearsville and I uh, I

2395
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:54,320
Speaker 1: was meeting the Woodstock Times. It was an ad for

2396
02:11:54,400 --> 02:11:57,120
Speaker 1: this house I'm sitting in now, and I said, man,

2397
02:11:57,160 --> 02:12:00,120
Speaker 1: I need a place to change my you know, it

2398
02:12:00,160 --> 02:12:03,160
Speaker 1: was time to shift, to really get in a whole

2399
02:12:03,480 --> 02:12:06,880
Speaker 1: get back to my spiritual and the whole thing. And

2400
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:09,040
Speaker 1: I just said, I want to see that how something

2401
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:11,920
Speaker 1: about it? And I spent spent overnight on holiday in

2402
02:12:12,920 --> 02:12:15,440
Speaker 1: in Kingston, New York. I came up here the next day,

2403
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:18,920
Speaker 1: was sort of dilapidated. It's on built a hundred years

2404
02:12:18,920 --> 02:12:21,720
Speaker 1: old on ten acres of land. It was built by

2405
02:12:21,720 --> 02:12:24,360
Speaker 1: the people that owned the Align Electric Chain Company back

2406
02:12:24,400 --> 02:12:27,360
Speaker 1: in the twenties. They had money. Heated floor in the bedroom,

2407
02:12:27,400 --> 02:12:30,040
Speaker 1: but old time, hundred years you know. And I bought

2408
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:32,880
Speaker 1: it to uh I was I was divorced by then

2409
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:36,560
Speaker 1: from my for the bad marriage. I bought it. This

2410
02:12:36,600 --> 02:12:38,600
Speaker 1: was where I was gonna clean up and change my life,

2411
02:12:38,720 --> 02:12:41,720
Speaker 1: kept back to nature, and I did. That's what happened,

2412
02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:43,360
Speaker 1: and I met my wife in the city and we

2413
02:12:43,520 --> 02:12:46,720
Speaker 1: ended up moving here. But it took me a long time.

2414
02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:50,800
Speaker 1: That's when I went through the whole therapy, the LSD psychotherapy.

2415
02:12:51,160 --> 02:12:54,800
Speaker 1: I I was going to a psychiatrist in Manhattan named

2416
02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:58,840
Speaker 1: Joe Gross and he said to me, you know, I'm

2417
02:12:58,920 --> 02:13:01,840
Speaker 1: just not doing it with you it. There's a brilliant guy,

2418
02:13:01,920 --> 02:13:06,200
Speaker 1: the father of LSD psychedelics, coming from Austin, Texas. He's

2419
02:13:06,200 --> 02:13:10,440
Speaker 1: the Russian Jew Polish Jew, Harry Hermone coming in New York.

2420
02:13:11,120 --> 02:13:13,120
Speaker 1: He had to leave Texas. I didn't know why then,

2421
02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:15,400
Speaker 1: but he had to leave for some stupid read. He

2422
02:13:15,520 --> 02:13:19,440
Speaker 1: had the first marijuana licensed federal in America nineties sixties

2423
02:13:19,560 --> 02:13:23,840
Speaker 1: for CBD, invented CBD to grow pop for sleeping. He

2424
02:13:23,920 --> 02:13:26,880
Speaker 1: was that brilliant. He's a pharmacologist, like you know, full

2425
02:13:28,040 --> 02:13:33,480
Speaker 1: brilliant psychiatrist. Um anyway, um so he said, this guy's coming.

2426
02:13:33,480 --> 02:13:36,320
Speaker 1: And Harry Hermon did not like private patients. He got

2427
02:13:36,320 --> 02:13:39,560
Speaker 1: a job at King's County, the largest psychiatric hospital I

2428
02:13:39,600 --> 02:13:43,160
Speaker 1: think in America in the in New York, and he

2429
02:13:43,280 --> 02:13:45,480
Speaker 1: was in forensic. He had he did this slasher of

2430
02:13:45,520 --> 02:13:48,680
Speaker 1: Staten Island. He did criminals and his own clients with

2431
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:56,480
Speaker 1: Lou reading me. That was it two junkies. There was

2432
02:13:56,520 --> 02:13:59,960
Speaker 1: already clients. And uh he saw me for a year. Man.

2433
02:14:00,080 --> 02:14:01,760
Speaker 1: You know, Nanny took acid with me and that we

2434
02:14:01,880 --> 02:14:04,040
Speaker 1: became friends. You know. He ended up moving to Israel.

2435
02:14:04,080 --> 02:14:07,520
Speaker 1: He's dead now. Um So that's how all that stopped.

2436
02:14:07,560 --> 02:14:09,200
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I had the house up here,

2437
02:14:09,920 --> 02:14:12,840
Speaker 1: and um I met my I met my wife, who

2438
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:15,520
Speaker 1: was a school teacher, and you know, my life changed.

2439
02:14:15,520 --> 02:14:19,400
Speaker 1: I had kids. Everything changed then when my my mother

2440
02:14:19,440 --> 02:14:23,360
Speaker 1: had inherited and my mother died. She had inherited my

2441
02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:26,320
Speaker 1: father's share of Arc Music, which was the Chess Records

2442
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:30,560
Speaker 1: publishing that was run by Gene Goodman. That Harry Goodman's

2443
02:14:30,600 --> 02:14:33,200
Speaker 1: brother you know another mont of Benny Goodman's brothers in

2444
02:14:33,240 --> 02:14:36,480
Speaker 1: New York that was through Alan Arrow and those people.

2445
02:14:37,000 --> 02:14:41,360
Speaker 1: But we knew nothing of copyrighting Publishing International. The original

2446
02:14:41,400 --> 02:14:45,400
Speaker 1: deal though, was they only owned the Chess publishing for

2447
02:14:45,560 --> 02:14:50,120
Speaker 1: not Chess records. In other words, anything they got European anything,

2448
02:14:50,320 --> 02:14:54,600
Speaker 1: other labels cover records. But when Chess was sold, they

2449
02:14:54,600 --> 02:14:57,160
Speaker 1: had the windfalls getting it all then, you know, because

2450
02:14:57,280 --> 02:15:00,960
Speaker 1: when Chess was so, that ended. So they owned it

2451
02:15:01,160 --> 02:15:03,320
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, they was doing great all the

2452
02:15:03,640 --> 02:15:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, all the advertising and everything. And my mother

2453
02:15:07,680 --> 02:15:10,400
Speaker 1: was a partner, and my mother died and willed it

2454
02:15:10,400 --> 02:15:12,840
Speaker 1: to me. That was a struggle like that guy Jean

2455
02:15:12,880 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 1: Goodman tried to cut me out. I had a break

2456
02:15:15,640 --> 02:15:18,360
Speaker 1: into the office of this no old Silverman, another big

2457
02:15:18,680 --> 02:15:23,000
Speaker 1: entertainment lawyer who wrote the He had to admit that

2458
02:15:23,080 --> 02:15:25,840
Speaker 1: I was had the right to inherit my mother's share,

2459
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:30,440
Speaker 1: and then I became a partner. And then I threw

2460
02:15:30,480 --> 02:15:32,840
Speaker 1: out Jean Goodman because I called him he was he

2461
02:15:32,920 --> 02:15:35,280
Speaker 1: had my uncle and him was stealing from my mother

2462
02:15:36,320 --> 02:15:38,720
Speaker 1: and my uncle didn't even know it. And when I

2463
02:15:38,760 --> 02:15:41,120
Speaker 1: showed that to my uncle, who were on Santa Monica

2464
02:15:41,200 --> 02:15:46,560
Speaker 1: Boulevard driving to the Palmer Somewhere, Eddie jammed on the brakes.

2465
02:15:46,600 --> 02:15:48,600
Speaker 1: He freaked out. He never spoke to me. Pete on

2466
02:15:48,680 --> 02:15:51,320
Speaker 1: him at the Friars Club. He didn't realize that he

2467
02:15:51,400 --> 02:15:54,000
Speaker 1: made him a partner, that that was such an affront

2468
02:15:54,200 --> 02:15:57,520
Speaker 1: that he would that he would steal from his brother's wife.

2469
02:15:57,640 --> 02:16:00,960
Speaker 1: You know, Oh my god, and so ruined their friendship.

2470
02:16:01,000 --> 02:16:03,600
Speaker 1: They never spoke after I showed him, I spelled it out,

2471
02:16:04,120 --> 02:16:08,120
Speaker 1: and instead of going to court and suing Genleman, I

2472
02:16:08,280 --> 02:16:10,560
Speaker 1: told him to go home. I didn't want to start loss.

2473
02:16:10,680 --> 02:16:13,000
Speaker 1: I didn't want it, and I took it over and

2474
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:15,520
Speaker 1: I changed it from Madison Avenue to the west Side

2475
02:16:15,640 --> 02:16:19,400
Speaker 1: Ninth Avenue. Oh, young people, we boomed. I made a

2476
02:16:19,400 --> 02:16:22,000
Speaker 1: great publishing company. I ran it for twenties, you know,

2477
02:16:22,840 --> 02:16:28,160
Speaker 1: two until two you know, when I sold it to Fuji,

2478
02:16:28,800 --> 02:16:31,839
Speaker 1: and now it's owned by BMG. I sold the Fuji

2479
02:16:31,960 --> 02:16:35,240
Speaker 1: Japan UM. But yeah, I made a great company. I

2480
02:16:35,240 --> 02:16:37,160
Speaker 1: loved that I lived up here. I used to go

2481
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:38,760
Speaker 1: to the city and sleep one or two nights a

2482
02:16:38,800 --> 02:16:41,320
Speaker 1: week in hotels or at an apartment, my mother in

2483
02:16:41,400 --> 02:16:44,120
Speaker 1: law's apartment. UM, and I raised my kids here. My

2484
02:16:44,160 --> 02:16:48,360
Speaker 1: wife was a school teacher and uh changed my life

2485
02:16:48,360 --> 02:16:50,640
Speaker 1: and I met you know so that and now I've

2486
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:54,400
Speaker 1: just been working on not becoming me. This is really

2487
02:16:54,440 --> 02:16:57,320
Speaker 1: hard for me. It's against my what youreld Barbara fake,

2488
02:16:57,400 --> 02:17:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, forget who you are because it's bullshit. It's

2489
02:17:00,560 --> 02:17:02,600
Speaker 1: just like what the shirt you're wearing. You're much more

2490
02:17:02,640 --> 02:17:04,680
Speaker 1: than who you are, he taught. They laid a lot

2491
02:17:04,680 --> 02:17:07,240
Speaker 1: of good ship on me. I've never been happier in

2492
02:17:07,360 --> 02:17:10,119
Speaker 1: my life. I live in the woods. I walk around

2493
02:17:10,160 --> 02:17:13,320
Speaker 1: the forest. I still take psychedel was you know, uh

2494
02:17:13,400 --> 02:17:16,320
Speaker 1: if I can. Mushrooms are now every everyone, every kid

2495
02:17:16,360 --> 02:17:18,640
Speaker 1: I know has a bag of mushrooms. You know. Um,

2496
02:17:19,000 --> 02:17:21,640
Speaker 1: I smoke pots still. I don't take hard drugs anymore.

2497
02:17:22,320 --> 02:17:25,200
Speaker 1: I had serious surgery three years ago this month. I

2498
02:17:25,240 --> 02:17:27,879
Speaker 1: had to learn to walk again. Two years ago. Took

2499
02:17:27,920 --> 02:17:30,160
Speaker 1: me a year and learned to walk laying on the

2500
02:17:30,160 --> 02:17:32,400
Speaker 1: couch or a double back surgery. I went down on

2501
02:17:32,400 --> 02:17:35,760
Speaker 1: a hundred one pounds and it was near death and

2502
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:39,440
Speaker 1: something happened again. I can't another indescribable thing. I'm like

2503
02:17:39,520 --> 02:17:42,080
Speaker 1: a weird I get people laughing. I'll get you laughing

2504
02:17:42,120 --> 02:17:44,640
Speaker 1: because I have a happier. Something happened to me. When

2505
02:17:44,640 --> 02:17:46,920
Speaker 1: you get near dying, you realize how much time you

2506
02:17:47,000 --> 02:17:51,120
Speaker 1: waste on bullshit. That happened. That's something happened to me.

2507
02:17:51,560 --> 02:17:55,040
Speaker 1: I was, you know, on that couch, trying to gain

2508
02:17:55,080 --> 02:17:56,800
Speaker 1: weight a pine of hog and doze to day. I

2509
02:17:56,840 --> 02:17:59,680
Speaker 1: couldn't gain I was like the Oshwitz. I looked in

2510
02:17:59,720 --> 02:18:03,720
Speaker 1: the mirror and cried the first time. That's like I

2511
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:06,200
Speaker 1: was twelve years old at that way. There's nothing. It

2512
02:18:06,320 --> 02:18:08,920
Speaker 1: was horrible, but anyway it was. It turned out to

2513
02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:11,000
Speaker 1: be a positive thing. You hear about that all time

2514
02:18:11,080 --> 02:18:14,600
Speaker 1: right in life. That weird ship turns out good. And

2515
02:18:14,640 --> 02:18:17,760
Speaker 1: now I'm I'm enjoying riding around in my car and

2516
02:18:18,879 --> 02:18:22,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk to keith I I recently. Do you

2517
02:18:22,040 --> 02:18:24,120
Speaker 1: think I have a good memory. I'm gonna tell you

2518
02:18:24,160 --> 02:18:27,360
Speaker 1: a memory story about the rolling Stones. Does it sound

2519
02:18:27,400 --> 02:18:29,480
Speaker 1: like an eight year old guye that those has a

2520
02:18:29,480 --> 02:18:31,920
Speaker 1: good memory talking to you? Yes? I do think you

2521
02:18:31,959 --> 02:18:34,840
Speaker 1: have a good memory. Okay, I think you want to

2522
02:18:34,840 --> 02:18:42,400
Speaker 1: hear the story about memory. It's a rolling stone story. So, uh,

2523
02:18:42,560 --> 02:18:47,039
Speaker 1: we're in uh France and in Switzerland, and uh we

2524
02:18:47,120 --> 02:18:49,039
Speaker 1: have a tour coming up and both Keith and I

2525
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:56,760
Speaker 1: are taking hard drugs, heroin um and everything else anything

2526
02:18:56,800 --> 02:19:00,080
Speaker 1: if you get you know, we like drugs and we

2527
02:19:00,200 --> 02:19:01,680
Speaker 1: but we knew he had a clean up for the tour.

2528
02:19:01,760 --> 02:19:06,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to and we had heard about in Marseilles,

2529
02:19:06,640 --> 02:19:10,879
Speaker 1: France there was a drug shortage and they we heard

2530
02:19:10,920 --> 02:19:14,160
Speaker 1: about this Swiss doctor, Dr Denver, and he said, well,

2531
02:19:14,280 --> 02:19:16,879
Speaker 1: there was a heroin drought in France and they were

2532
02:19:17,160 --> 02:19:19,640
Speaker 1: a drug that had been invented by a drug company

2533
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:22,840
Speaker 1: in Paris called lucid drill. You could look it up.

2534
02:19:22,879 --> 02:19:25,439
Speaker 1: It's called many different things, but it was called lucidrill

2535
02:19:26,160 --> 02:19:29,960
Speaker 1: by a French lady. And uh he wanted to use

2536
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:32,920
Speaker 1: it on Keith and I for a drug here, and

2537
02:19:32,959 --> 02:19:37,920
Speaker 1: we said okay, and we took it was injectable and

2538
02:19:37,959 --> 02:19:40,720
Speaker 1: he gave you barbituous to sleep through the sickness. But

2539
02:19:40,760 --> 02:19:43,440
Speaker 1: it was mostly this lucid drill. We took hundreds of

2540
02:19:43,480 --> 02:19:47,280
Speaker 1: these pills, you know, big bottles, and I saw I

2541
02:19:47,320 --> 02:19:50,320
Speaker 1: had many times three or four cures I took with him,

2542
02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:55,400
Speaker 1: trying three for sure, Keith maybe two or three. And

2543
02:19:55,440 --> 02:19:57,560
Speaker 1: then it ended, you know, and it didn't cure us.

2544
02:19:57,600 --> 02:19:59,800
Speaker 1: We went back and I ended up coming here doing

2545
02:19:59,800 --> 02:20:03,600
Speaker 1: what I told you to cure. But recently I decided

2546
02:20:03,720 --> 02:20:05,520
Speaker 1: I wonder what happened to that lucid drill. So I

2547
02:20:05,560 --> 02:20:08,400
Speaker 1: look it up online and it's one of the drugs

2548
02:20:08,520 --> 02:20:13,240
Speaker 1: given for Alzheimer's to remove plaque in your brain. So

2549
02:20:13,400 --> 02:20:16,119
Speaker 1: I think in our thirties, Keith and I started fresh,

2550
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:19,600
Speaker 1: we cleaned out all the ship. I want to call me,

2551
02:20:19,640 --> 02:20:22,480
Speaker 1: ask him, how's your memory? Because everyone I know tells

2552
02:20:22,520 --> 02:20:26,040
Speaker 1: me it's shocking my memory. Other eight year olds, you know,

2553
02:20:26,600 --> 02:20:29,360
Speaker 1: I I and it's true. I I feel that things

2554
02:20:29,400 --> 02:20:33,160
Speaker 1: come up from way and I'm wondering if that we're laughing,

2555
02:20:33,400 --> 02:20:35,800
Speaker 1: could it be the lucid drill? You know? And this

2556
02:20:35,959 --> 02:20:40,320
Speaker 1: story and I'm not knowe Marshal, we'll leave it here

2557
02:20:40,360 --> 02:20:44,640
Speaker 1: for the first chapter. You're a fount of stories well told.

2558
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:46,840
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking the

2559
02:20:46,840 --> 02:20:50,000
Speaker 1: time to talk to my audience. You asked good questions.

2560
02:20:50,040 --> 02:20:53,800
Speaker 1: You're good. You're good until next time. This is Bob

2561
02:20:53,879 --> 02:20:54,440
Speaker 1: left Sex