Speaker 1: M hm hm. Welcome back All the Smoke, a t
Speaker 1: L edition. We're in Jack's backyard this week. H Man,
Speaker 1: I want to welcome to the show right now, someone
Speaker 1: who I've looked up to for a long time and
Speaker 1: it's been very inspirational and I'm glad that he got
Speaker 1: a chance to finally tell his side of the story.
Speaker 1: Definitely gonna get into that. Welcome to the show, Mark Mood,
Speaker 1: I'll do rof Hey, thanks for having thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for coming. And one time I was calling him
Speaker 1: last name because he had the same last name. At
Speaker 1: one point I used to call him last Jack and
Speaker 1: I uh obviously a part of the Showtime families. So
Speaker 1: we were able to watch your documentary called stand Um
Speaker 1: on Showtime. What do you want the viewers to come
Speaker 1: away with after they get a chance to hear your
Speaker 1: story and your words? And as always a tough uh
Speaker 1: question to answer, but um whatever whatever resonates with him. Man,
Speaker 1: you know, my my story is everybody has a story.
Speaker 1: I say that all the time, and everybody's story is
Speaker 1: impactful in his own way. But uh, you know, coming
Speaker 1: up from nearly nothing, uh single parent, the struggles that
Speaker 1: came with that being in many ways miseducated, the struggles
Speaker 1: that came with that, and how I evolved out of that. Uh,
Speaker 1: having a neurological disorder. You know that so many people
Speaker 1: suffering now, you know, so many children could be the
Speaker 1: suicide with all of these mental challenges and uh, and
Speaker 1: then just the evolution of my education and positions that
Speaker 1: I ended up taking that cost me my career, you know,
Speaker 1: social political. So there's a lot to game from. I mean,
Speaker 1: you would have one of the most powerful stories. It's
Speaker 1: obviously a human story, but particularly it pertains to sports. Uh.
Speaker 1: We briefly just touched on it right before we sat
Speaker 1: down before we got on air. Mentally, what was it
Speaker 1: like going back and like you said, you always have
Speaker 1: those feelings, but they kind of rehashed some of those
Speaker 1: feelings from from anger to frustration to despair too, you know,
Speaker 1: the joyful times of playing. But what was it like
Speaker 1: kind of somewhat purging all that and bringing all that
Speaker 1: back out for the world to see. It was a challenge, man,
Speaker 1: it was anytime you're trying to uh tell your story again,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of information that you thought,
Speaker 1: you know, you forgot about, or that you actually forgot
Speaker 1: about the re emerging in the storytelling process and it
Speaker 1: hits you. It's therapeutic. Uh, their moments, Man, when you
Speaker 1: break down and cry. You know we've seen yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: and so yeah, and so that's that's basically man. It's
Speaker 1: it's uh, it was time consuming. Uh, the energy that
Speaker 1: you have to put in just read. Look, we didn't
Speaker 1: grow up with the habit of keeping journals. You know,
Speaker 1: so many things we forget and so that it was
Speaker 1: definitely time consuming. And I'm just happy that we finally
Speaker 1: got to this point where we finished it. And it's
Speaker 1: a great, great director with Joscelyn Rodes doing doing doing
Speaker 1: the take on it. So I'm excited to see what
Speaker 1: people think. Gulfport, Mississippi, single mother. Um, I noticed what
Speaker 1: that feels like. I grew up in that and uh,
Speaker 1: your siblings literally had to hunt hunt animals and squirrels
Speaker 1: just to have food. Um, I know what that's like,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what that's like. Can you kind
Speaker 1: of like take us into that feeling of growing up
Speaker 1: in that situation? Man, Look, it's it's tough, and I
Speaker 1: know that's cliche, man, just not knowing all the times
Speaker 1: when your meal are gonna come from and also resisting
Speaker 1: urge day in and day out, having to go steal,
Speaker 1: you know. And so we were fortunate to be in
Speaker 1: an environment where we would see some pet trees here
Speaker 1: and some blackberries on the side of the road that
Speaker 1: we can get to sustain ourselves. And uh, you know
Speaker 1: when mom, you know when my mom did finally was
Speaker 1: able to make groceries here there, or aunt or an
Speaker 1: uncle that asked something. You know, a lot of African Americans,
Speaker 1: I think we eat fast because that first, that first place,
Speaker 1: especially if you have a secon. When you get that
Speaker 1: first wee faster you can get that second one. So
Speaker 1: that's the way it was with us. Man. And but
Speaker 1: I'm grateful. I'm grateful to have come out of that
Speaker 1: experience and and those experience have a way of humbling
Speaker 1: you for sure, making you very appreciative and grateful for
Speaker 1: for everything that you have and also sympathizing with other
Speaker 1: people don't have, because you know what it feels like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what it feels like. You talk about um
Speaker 1: your younger days, seeing actually seeing members of the KKK marching.
Speaker 1: What's crazy to me is I played and I played
Speaker 1: in Indiana in two thousands, five six, and they were
Speaker 1: still having clan rallies up and down the major streets.
Speaker 1: Seeing that as a young kid, you know, we hear
Speaker 1: about racism, but I actually didn't see actual KKK running
Speaker 1: never in my life. Actually it's up to us has
Speaker 1: the parade? How damage in it is that to a
Speaker 1: kid to be able to see that, and what was
Speaker 1: your mentors being able to go through that as a youngster,
Speaker 1: you know it was it was hard to see, but
Speaker 1: it was confusing, you know, because you live in a
Speaker 1: society where you taught certain values the way things should
Speaker 1: be right. And at the same time you're like, well,
Speaker 1: if this organization it's so terroristic the way you say
Speaker 1: it is so filled with hate, how can you allow
Speaker 1: them to exist the way they do right and to
Speaker 1: brand this ship? So as a young boy, it was
Speaker 1: just it was confusing. You know, it ain't goered at
Speaker 1: me at the same time, and and then you know
Speaker 1: the confusing part two was, man, you didn't know who
Speaker 1: was under those those sheets, right, and so you start
Speaker 1: looking at people very suspiciously, right because people were smiling
Speaker 1: in your face, but you know, stab you in your back.
Speaker 1: And so your whole existence after a while just come in.
Speaker 1: You just don't know who to trust anymore, and so
Speaker 1: you smile, you your cordial, but you always keeping your
Speaker 1: guards up, you know, especially as as as black people,
Speaker 1: you know, we what we've gone through, it just heightens it.
Speaker 1: It's like you can never truly drop your guards. It's
Speaker 1: hard to be a kid like that, almost impossible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's a good side of that too, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we live in a society where they dumb
Speaker 1: us down and they extend childhood right to the point
Speaker 1: where were nineteen twenty and you still this is a child.
Speaker 1: You know, technically in some countries they're thirteen years old
Speaker 1: and they have adult responsibility, grow up faster. So in
Speaker 1: that sense, there's some positives that come out of it too.
Speaker 1: You learn fast, you know, look at the world a
Speaker 1: little differently, and it toughens you up. You said, look, man,
Speaker 1: you know you have to decide. You have to make decisions.
Speaker 1: Man I gotta And that's a that's a part of
Speaker 1: it too, in terms of what propelled me, not just
Speaker 1: cliche of being great, because like, man, I gotta do something.
Speaker 1: I gotta take care of my family, and you try
Speaker 1: to figure out what am I good at and then
Speaker 1: you gotta go for it. You gotta go for broke.
Speaker 1: And so some good came out of it. But it's
Speaker 1: it could be traumatic and and not can be. It
Speaker 1: is traumatic traumatic, you know, we try to, we try
Speaker 1: to you know has been and the people be tough
Speaker 1: about it. But now that stuff is traumatic. That stuff
Speaker 1: stays with you. Like I'm fit to three years old,
Speaker 1: and as I'm talking about it right now, I still
Speaker 1: feel the emotions coming from that. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: had an incident um my senior in high school where
Speaker 1: white kids and as my sister spent on their car
Speaker 1: or niggers, I signed it up welping him as a
Speaker 1: big brother, and I got spending three months away from
Speaker 1: going to u c l A. Why myself, I was
Speaker 1: suspending my whole The KKK came in, burned down bathroom,
Speaker 1: swaster because niggers everywhere hung and mannequin with the news.
Speaker 1: So my football jersey on and died nigger. And that
Speaker 1: that was at seventeen years old. I'm forty two today
Speaker 1: and still feel like it was yesterday. And it was
Speaker 1: in the same back earl SOO, like you said, you
Speaker 1: look at people a little different when those things start happening, because,
Speaker 1: like they said, they could be smiling and shaking your hand,
Speaker 1: but at the same time could have been behind what
Speaker 1: was going on because you never know. So, like you said,
Speaker 1: it's something that obviously you learned from it hardened you,
Speaker 1: but it it completely gave me a different outlook on life.
Speaker 1: At that age, I was bi racial, Italian and black,
Speaker 1: but I looked at myself as a black man from
Speaker 1: that day fourth because that's how I was treated. And
Speaker 1: the fact that you just said that, uh, we still
Speaker 1: feel that, And I think part of the reason we
Speaker 1: still feel that is because we still see it's still
Speaker 1: going on. It still goes on, so we can't forget it. Tourette's.
Speaker 1: You were finally diagnosed at seventeen with it, and you
Speaker 1: in the documentary you you struggle, You didn't know what
Speaker 1: it was, what it was called. You know, the doctor
Speaker 1: gave you a reason of you know, what to say.
Speaker 1: But was it a relief when you kind of were
Speaker 1: diagnosed with it and and and and started kind of
Speaker 1: finding ways to to to to manage it. My goodness, man,
Speaker 1: When I finally found out again, when he first told me,
Speaker 1: I was still like I didn't like am I gonna
Speaker 1: die from this is like cancer or some of of it.
Speaker 1: But it took a It took an enormous weight off
Speaker 1: my shoulders. Uh, because all of that time I was
Speaker 1: just I was never truly comfortable with the explanation. They're
Speaker 1: just habits. They come in, they go like you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, and the horse peels that I had to
Speaker 1: take constantly, man, that huge. I mean they were massive.
Speaker 1: I can remember they were orange with jelly looking substance
Speaker 1: ince side of him, and I would gag constantly, man,
Speaker 1: And so I stopped taking them, just gave them pression.
Speaker 1: I was taking them. But uh, people looking at you strange,
Speaker 1: not being able to have a an adequate explanation for it.
Speaker 1: And then when finally, uh, my high school coaches wife
Speaker 1: convinced my mother. And prior to that my mother take
Speaker 1: me to the hospital. He put e kgs in my head,
Speaker 1: tell him and he need to stay up eight hours,
Speaker 1: all type of stuff, man, and none of that worked.
Speaker 1: And uh, but when they finally took me, he he
Speaker 1: noticed right off the bat and he told me, man,
Speaker 1: he just literally said it was hereditary. And I said, okay,
Speaker 1: well it's not just I had somebody that gave me
Speaker 1: to me. You know, it wasn't just me. So that
Speaker 1: took a weight off my shoulders, man, and I caused
Speaker 1: me to move a little differently, be a little bit
Speaker 1: more comfortable with it because I had an explanation behind it,
Speaker 1: I mean me personally, not knowing too much about it
Speaker 1: now to this day, is there ways you know what
Speaker 1: tools you have to handle it? Or is it the
Speaker 1: constant medication? How do you handle the threats to this day?
Speaker 1: Great question? Uh, I don't. I stopped taking medication, man.
Speaker 1: Uh when I was at l s U. I just
Speaker 1: it was a personal decision because I was on how
Speaker 1: doll in high school and I came to find out
Speaker 1: later that how doll was a uh drug that they
Speaker 1: give the psychopaths like to just just coming and put
Speaker 1: them to sleep. I said, wow, I kind of I
Speaker 1: had to pat myself on the back. I said, damn, man,
Speaker 1: I because in high school I was one five and
Speaker 1: uh my senior year, we played like forty one games
Speaker 1: a year, and so at the end of that year,
Speaker 1: I was like one set five. There's no way I
Speaker 1: should have gained that weight, but it had me gaining
Speaker 1: when I wasn't moving. I would always be sleepy and
Speaker 1: and eating. Like if I just sat here and didn't
Speaker 1: say nothing, I just beat those in class. Those a
Speaker 1: coach started talking a little bit too long, those all
Speaker 1: and sold it caused me to gain all that way
Speaker 1: I get to l s U. I'm one because of
Speaker 1: the how dog. So I'm literally a little big bodyguard.
Speaker 1: I'm literally twenty something, almost thirty pounds overweight. I said, Man,
Speaker 1: I I broke a record out of shade. I can
Speaker 1: only imagine what I could have did if I was
Speaker 1: in shape. Yeah, so I just decided I don't want
Speaker 1: They put me on pros acting for lixing. It didn't
Speaker 1: have the side effects. It caused me to lose. But
Speaker 1: then I just said, you know what, I'm just gonna pray.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna train, I'm gonna try to eat right, get
Speaker 1: my rest, and I'm gonna deal with it that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I started earlier, even before I knew, I started
Speaker 1: to develop a distrust for the pharmaceutical industry and healthcare industry.
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's almost everything. Y'all give me the side effects,
Speaker 1: more side effects and benefits. So I'm gonna try my
Speaker 1: luck on the natural way. You've always been a laid
Speaker 1: back type of guy, feeling like that's just since a youngster.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the way that you had of
Speaker 1: stuff and always been back help you deal with treats? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm pretty, I'm pretty laid back, but I
Speaker 1: can get can be animated. You know that too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we all have it, and some more than others.
Speaker 1: But it definitely helps man treat is like, h I
Speaker 1: don't I'm not a woman, but I've heard women talk
Speaker 1: about harmone hormonal issues, right, and so if I'm excited,
Speaker 1: if I'm nervous, if I'm angry, that can exacerbate the ship.
Speaker 1: And I mean I'm talking about they can be violent, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and I used to. I mean I used
Speaker 1: to pop my I don't want to do it not.
Speaker 1: I used to pop my neck so hard and throw
Speaker 1: my arms out to where it felt like I was
Speaker 1: about to dislocate my my elbow. I felt like I
Speaker 1: was about to like literally pop intoe my neck. I
Speaker 1: would feel my brain like hit, feeling like it hitting
Speaker 1: my skull out. I'm I'm tensing up as I'm playing
Speaker 1: and working out. You know, imagine being on staff massing
Speaker 1: work and that's taking more out of you. You gotta
Speaker 1: push harder. And so this is why mostly every day
Speaker 1: that I trained, like literally, and I'm not exaggerating, I
Speaker 1: almost died every day because I wanted to quit. Chris
Speaker 1: Jackson wanted to stop it out of the head to
Speaker 1: rest syndrome, saying, no, man, you gotta play me now,
Speaker 1: and it's gotta be just like this, and no matter
Speaker 1: how tired you are, uh, you gotta fight through it.
Speaker 1: You can't take no rest. If there's a glitchen to
Speaker 1: move before you shoot it, it don't count. If all
Speaker 1: of the shots have to go net. Everything had to
Speaker 1: feel perfect those last ten shots, so that if I
Speaker 1: trained an hour and a half, I have ten shots
Speaker 1: to make out and I gotta get them up. Everything
Speaker 1: had to feel perfect coming off my hand, to dribble,
Speaker 1: the planting of my feet, and if one thing was off,
Speaker 1: even if I made this shot, I couldn't go back
Speaker 1: and say if I'm at nine in a row and
Speaker 1: I hit ten and it skims around, I can't retake
Speaker 1: the shot and say ten. I have to start a
Speaker 1: zero that may take me another I want hand. Then
Speaker 1: I'm leaving the court. I'm dribbling as I'm leaving the court.
Speaker 1: If the ball don't feel right. A few times, I
Speaker 1: back up, I'm underneath the goal. Again, I shoot it
Speaker 1: don't feel right. I gotta do that same ten, same
Speaker 1: way two times. That's when I started. I got to
Speaker 1: improvise because if I don't, I'm gonna kill myself. I
Speaker 1: had to take the ball and I had to throw
Speaker 1: it towards my house after I finished that way. When
Speaker 1: I finally got the ball and I was driven, I
Speaker 1: messed up. I back up, I'm not underneath the goal.
Speaker 1: I can make it home. And I had to come
Speaker 1: back and do that again before the day was over.
Speaker 1: So that was I don't know if I would have
Speaker 1: known that statistically we had a better chance of becoming
Speaker 1: doctors and lawyers. I don't know if I went through that,
Speaker 1: because literally I was every day. Then I had to
Speaker 1: wake up and I was threatening, you know, death, And
Speaker 1: I'm not exaggerated. You spoke in the doctor how some
Speaker 1: of those habits actually helped you become a better basketball player,
Speaker 1: And it was really to what you just spoke with
Speaker 1: right there, just the constant repetition and and work that
Speaker 1: you had. It wasn't a choice that you didn't have
Speaker 1: a choice. You had to do it. It did um
Speaker 1: the precision, Uh it wasn't enough just to make the
Speaker 1: shot how you made it, you know. And and get
Speaker 1: into a spot, you know what envisioning two three invisible
Speaker 1: people and they're literally physical there this close to the
Speaker 1: basketball every time you're dribble and shoes. So you're trying
Speaker 1: to escape m hm. You know, create space with your imagination.
Speaker 1: And so in your mind you're like, if I could
Speaker 1: create space with my imagination, a human being don't have
Speaker 1: a don't got it right? So you this is every
Speaker 1: day and uh the good thing is that also if
Speaker 1: you're fortunate, it doesn't always work out this way. Things
Speaker 1: you're passionate about their carryovers to everything, you know. Bruce
Speaker 1: Lee has this great story about the protege let's go
Speaker 1: run three miles. He didn't want to run. As they
Speaker 1: were running, he finally convinced him to do was huffing
Speaker 1: and puffing. He said, well, look let's go to He said, man,
Speaker 1: I'm about to die. He said, we're died in Bruce
Speaker 1: kept running. Dude was mad, so in his anger he
Speaker 1: started running more and when he finished, you know, because
Speaker 1: he was running because he was angry. That, Bruce, they died,
Speaker 1: He go ahead and die. He said, what were you
Speaker 1: so hard on him? Bruce? He said, because once you
Speaker 1: give up on yourself, there's carryovers. You give up on
Speaker 1: your family, and you give up on your business. So
Speaker 1: the same with the training, and as I was training
Speaker 1: and going through that. Man, when there's something you're attached to,
Speaker 1: like issues, they're carryovers. So when people said, well why
Speaker 1: did you do what you did and say what you said? Man,
Speaker 1: if I amost sending myself through this abuse, because it is,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go through all of this, and I
Speaker 1: gotta do the same thing on other issues as well.
Speaker 1: So at least to one thing you wanted, at least
Speaker 1: to another. Basketball is the path you decided to take.
Speaker 1: Was there anyone you looked up to? Uh? Growing up?
Speaker 1: What was it? This all about your game? No? I
Speaker 1: mean I looked up to so many people from my guy. Ironically,
Speaker 1: my guy was Dr J. He's you know, Dr Jay.
Speaker 1: You would have thought it would be Isaiah Turmus or
Speaker 1: something like that, but you were just so exciting. But
Speaker 1: I'm always attracted to guys too, man. Dr J was
Speaker 1: so humble the way he carried him. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: those type of guys man just along with their ability,
Speaker 1: just they just drew me in. And so he was
Speaker 1: the guy that I watched. But we didn't have cable.
Speaker 1: So I'm in Mississippi, so we catch all the Hawks
Speaker 1: games they come on, so I would watch and I
Speaker 1: watched NBA. I didn't really I watched college, but I
Speaker 1: watched ninety per cent NBA because if this is where
Speaker 1: I want to be, this is l s U. You
Speaker 1: decided to go to l s U right out the
Speaker 1: gates dominant. I have a record today that still stands.
Speaker 1: As a freshman, you average thirty point two points a game.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about that you touched on at that time.
Speaker 1: You were on medications, so you were plus twenty five,
Speaker 1: but you were still out here setting records. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about your particularly your freshman year at l s U.
Speaker 1: You know, I came in man. When I first came in,
Speaker 1: they had a guy named Fest Irving, and I was
Speaker 1: looking to play alongside Fest. Something happened where they said, look,
Speaker 1: his father came in and told Dale that if he's coming,
Speaker 1: if Fest ain't gonna start with leaving, he said, well
Speaker 1: you might as well pack you back and they'll don't
Speaker 1: like to be strong on the right right, and so
Speaker 1: that left me just kind of like with with no competition.
Speaker 1: And uh, I still think back, man, I pinched myself.
Speaker 1: I said, well, because it happened so fast. You know,
Speaker 1: you dream and we all have aspirations teams, but when
Speaker 1: it starts to like hole, you know, and it's a
Speaker 1: little scary, Um especially. I'll get to that later. But
Speaker 1: I ended up man um having my first game was
Speaker 1: like thirteen. I was just trying to feel things out,
Speaker 1: but I felt I could have did a whole lot more.
Speaker 1: Second game, I had twenty one. That's when Dale stopped
Speaker 1: me going into the locker room. He said, look, Chris,
Speaker 1: he said we need at the time, he said, we
Speaker 1: need you to score more. I said, coach, I'll try.
Speaker 1: And that third game I had forty eight. The fourth game,
Speaker 1: I think thirty whatever. And in the fifth game of Florida,
Speaker 1: that's when it was you know, nationally televised. They were
Speaker 1: the number one team in the SEC and I had
Speaker 1: fifty three and uh filed out three of their guards
Speaker 1: and then that's when it just it exploded for me.
Speaker 1: Um and I still, man, I'm like, wow, I looked back,
Speaker 1: but The reason why it was so hard for me, Brothers,
Speaker 1: is this. I could never embrace success the whole time
Speaker 1: I was there. I could never get comfortable with it
Speaker 1: because I was always thinking that something's gonna happen. This
Speaker 1: is too good to be true. And I started reflecting
Speaker 1: the old I got and I said, this is why.
Speaker 1: And this is where I'm so adamant. We're trying to
Speaker 1: educate myself and just to share as much information as
Speaker 1: possible because sim and I was like, what caused me
Speaker 1: to think this way? You know? They say our society,
Speaker 1: our environment, and and and the people around have a
Speaker 1: way of molting and shaping us. And I said, we
Speaker 1: used to watch Sampon and Son and Good Time on
Speaker 1: a continuous basis, and they were always either in the
Speaker 1: junkyard or the ghetto, and they were always trying to
Speaker 1: get out, and every time something was about to happen
Speaker 1: that would get them out to ghet On, something would
Speaker 1: happen to kick him right back. In every show. I said, man,
Speaker 1: this seems like a social conditioning. And so I started
Speaker 1: to look at all the stuff I was listening to
Speaker 1: and learning and studying. So this is where this came from,
Speaker 1: you know, This is why I could never truly embrace it.
Speaker 1: Always felt something's gonna happen to me. Right, this is
Speaker 1: too good to be true. You know, it should have
Speaker 1: been all that should have been the best time in
Speaker 1: my life. I'm the closest I've ever been to make it,
Speaker 1: you know. And so, yeah, what age not to cut
Speaker 1: you off? At what age did you start reflecting back
Speaker 1: on that? Because it sounds like you never were able
Speaker 1: to really enjoy the success you were having while you
Speaker 1: were having it. I started reflecting when I got to
Speaker 1: the league. Yep, I became a must of them. I
Speaker 1: started me brothers. They started giving me books, you know,
Speaker 1: think authors I've never heard of information I've never read before.
Speaker 1: And uh, it started to make me think. Yeah, Shaquille
Speaker 1: O'Neil comes to l s U, what's your first early
Speaker 1: memories of shot? Gigantic guy like in shape, confident, playful.
Speaker 1: Um uh and I remember him saying in the dorm
Speaker 1: one day. But this is before contracts even exploded the
Speaker 1: way they did. He's I'm gonna be the first guy
Speaker 1: to make eighty million. He made way more than but
Speaker 1: he was man. He was he was he was relentless.
Speaker 1: You could see the passion in his game. Um, he
Speaker 1: was a people's person, you know the way he is
Speaker 1: now very playful, um, comical. Um. But I knew that
Speaker 1: we you know, we had something special, but we just
Speaker 1: couldn't put it together. Obviously you were highly touted, decorated Shock.
Speaker 1: With Shock, I think Stanley Roberts gets lost in the mix.
Speaker 1: How good with Stanley Roberts? Not for me because I
Speaker 1: grew up a little a couple of miles from there. No,
Speaker 1: they had the original two big fellas in him. Like
Speaker 1: Stanley did not get overshadowed. If you watched L. S
Speaker 1: U and if he was from that area, he was
Speaker 1: just as big as Shock. Trust me, he was just
Speaker 1: as big as Shot from California what I'm saying. But
Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things, nationwide talked to us
Speaker 1: about Stanley Robert and when his game was like, Uh,
Speaker 1: Stanley by far was way more talented and skillful than Shack. Stanley.
Speaker 1: Stanley could shoot it, he could shoot his free throw,
Speaker 1: and he can take you down. And now he didn't
Speaker 1: have the Shock bringing it up whole corner. But outside
Speaker 1: of that, and even Shock admitted Shack said, look, Stanley
Speaker 1: dominated him. Uh. The only thing with Stanley Man, and
Speaker 1: he'll tell you to this day. We're at we're at
Speaker 1: a convention that l s U some years ago because
Speaker 1: I hardly ever get back. And Stanley was eating in
Speaker 1: the ball. You know, we're basketball players. Use the ball,
Speaker 1: rolled By, we're gonna grab it and touch it. Sam
Speaker 1: was eating talking ball, rolled By looked at it. He
Speaker 1: just kept on that. I mean like, and I looked seriously.
Speaker 1: He don't want nothing to do with the game back.
Speaker 1: But that's just him. Even when he was playing, man,
Speaker 1: he just I had to and I'm not I could
Speaker 1: beat this dude, but I had to sometimes piss him
Speaker 1: all coach like, man, get him the skins and he
Speaker 1: ain't number all. You give me the ball, give me
Speaker 1: the ball, but he'll go off, but he'll be missing
Speaker 1: to or three days. He just show you I can
Speaker 1: do this, and then he won't. So he didn't have
Speaker 1: that discipline and at work, and I remember telling him
Speaker 1: one timmer Man, I said, stay, I had tears in
Speaker 1: my eyes. Man, we'd talked him because I knew him.
Speaker 1: I said, Stanley Man, I said, man, you just work hard,
Speaker 1: be consistent. I said, man, you can write your ticket,
Speaker 1: you can name your Price. He looks at me, he said, Man.
Speaker 1: At the time, my name is Chris Man. I appreciate you. Man,
Speaker 1: he said, Man, but he's ain't Goo listen, He's ain't.
Speaker 1: And I knew he was telling the truth. I seen
Speaker 1: even man make my eyes water when I think about it.
Speaker 1: I said, Man, it's dude, that so much Man so
Speaker 1: uh And the documentary Shock spoke to a particular performance
Speaker 1: where you had forty points against Mississippi State on the road,
Speaker 1: Confederate flags in the stands, yelling, going crazy. He said
Speaker 1: that was the single greatest performance he's ever seen playing
Speaker 1: with Kobe, playing in the league all these years. He said,
Speaker 1: what you did in that game, he'll always remember is
Speaker 1: the greatest single performance. Talked to us about that game
Speaker 1: and just the environment when you're coming back home and
Speaker 1: it seems like your home is against you. There ain't
Speaker 1: a scene. Yeah, exfinitely they would definitely get As soon
Speaker 1: as I walked out and they saw my feet coming
Speaker 1: out of the tunnel, started, um, that was a great game.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't I would have thought that would be the
Speaker 1: game that he say. However, I do remember that game,
Speaker 1: and I remember Dale got extremely upset because he didn't
Speaker 1: like going to Mississippi. He didn't like. If it was
Speaker 1: his preference, he wouldn't have he would have flew in,
Speaker 1: played and left with the boat. Wouldn't have spent money
Speaker 1: in the hotel. He spent money in the motael. We
Speaker 1: say the motel. He wanted to spend the least amount.
Speaker 1: But that was a peiod in the game with Dale
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, and I felt kind of awkward.
Speaker 1: He's okay, y'all don't want to play. Come down and
Speaker 1: you did every time. And I'm like, yeah, I came
Speaker 1: down and I was playing. But if somebody's over, I
Speaker 1: gotta give it to him. But I think, uh, I
Speaker 1: don't know if we won that game, that particular game,
Speaker 1: but it was a stretch when I just I just
Speaker 1: took control and went off. And I'm definitely, uh thinking
Speaker 1: that's what he's referring to. So it's good that he
Speaker 1: at least remembers it. Yeah, can you speak to the
Speaker 1: importance to Dale Brown, because even in the documentary, he
Speaker 1: was just still so high on you and has so
Speaker 1: much love for who you were the man, not just
Speaker 1: a basketball player. But speak to his importance, uh, in
Speaker 1: your journey man, Dale they came to recruit me in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons, the main reasons I went
Speaker 1: to actually is because I know better now. You know,
Speaker 1: I do believe that athletes should get paid right, But
Speaker 1: I was a little scary. I didn't want anything to
Speaker 1: mess up my and they just came off of I
Speaker 1: take suspension something uh hot Williams out of uh, I
Speaker 1: forget his name out of California. But and they never
Speaker 1: when he came to. Everybody else is offering you stuff
Speaker 1: like you're gonna come and you're gonna start right away,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And in my young mind, I'm sad
Speaker 1: to myself. We don't even know what tomorrow is gonna bring.
Speaker 1: How can you offer me something somebody else may come
Speaker 1: in and out play me, and I just always feel
Speaker 1: funny about that. But deal came in. He said, listen,
Speaker 1: we got fair serving. You know, we believe that you
Speaker 1: could play pop about believing your talent. If you show
Speaker 1: us that this is who you are, you're gonna play.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm kind of like old school, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like okay, And they were just
Speaker 1: straight up with me, and I just shook. I just
Speaker 1: shook that head and I said, listen, I'm coming to
Speaker 1: LS you. But I kept a quiet for a while
Speaker 1: because I was told in Mississippi, you want to keep
Speaker 1: Mississippi schools because I was out. I was out of
Speaker 1: high school. Yet so they say keep one of them.
Speaker 1: Are so on the list because you don't want them
Speaker 1: to start giving you problems, you know. So that's why
Speaker 1: I kept the Mississippi school on the list. But I
Speaker 1: already knew that I wanted to go as you. And
Speaker 1: so the other thing that clinched it was Coach cars
Speaker 1: We talked like thousands of hours. About a thousand hours
Speaker 1: ninety Summer said him had nothing to do with basketball,
Speaker 1: and so to me that meant a lot, like these
Speaker 1: people you know, potentially are gonna, you know, they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna care for me more than the game. And
Speaker 1: uh he held true to his promise, I mean to
Speaker 1: to his word. And I got there, he saw it
Speaker 1: and he just said, hey, man, I want you to
Speaker 1: go for broke and uh and he trusted me to
Speaker 1: He knew that, okay, I wasn't just going to be
Speaker 1: a relegate with you know, and uh so and he also, man,
Speaker 1: he gave me. He was the one that influenced me,
Speaker 1: that led me to more so to a slam, because
Speaker 1: he gave me the autobiography, because he read. He he
Speaker 1: read all the time, and he had so many connections,
Speaker 1: whether you know different people, man, whether it's Dick, Gregory Ferric,
Speaker 1: I mean, you name it. And he would always hand
Speaker 1: us material to read and tell us what we thought.
Speaker 1: You know, because I came out, I almost didn't make it, man,
Speaker 1: I failed the A C T the first time and
Speaker 1: then the second time. And if it wasn't for a
Speaker 1: doctor that instilled into this woman to have the classes privately,
Speaker 1: I probably would have been a prop for the eight
Speaker 1: like Stanley. And but I was able to pass it
Speaker 1: and I came in. But the whole time at LSU, Man,
Speaker 1: they put me in a remedial reading class. I could read,
Speaker 1: I could spell, you know, but my comprehension skills wasn't great,
Speaker 1: my critical thinking skills. So they would ask me questions
Speaker 1: prior to my being admitted in the classes, like what
Speaker 1: this had me to read something and said what does
Speaker 1: this mean? Oh no, what does this word mean? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just spell words. I didin't even know
Speaker 1: what they meant, what does this word meaning? I don't
Speaker 1: know what are you getting from the story. I was
Speaker 1: just reading, man, I was sounding good, and I felt
Speaker 1: so humiliated though, and so Dale Brown began to give
Speaker 1: me a little material and then I would read it.
Speaker 1: What do you think about this? What do you think
Speaker 1: about that? And even when I would give interviews, there
Speaker 1: were times he would stop, hey, man, tell him what
Speaker 1: you think, right, because he saw me pushy fro around
Speaker 1: with and he would challenge. Right. Then he put me
Speaker 1: in the summer job. My summer job was with this
Speaker 1: guy named Gus Wiles, who was an author who had
Speaker 1: to play his plays presented. One of his plays presented
Speaker 1: on Broadway. So Gus would come in and every morning
Speaker 1: I will sit my whole thing. I would come and
Speaker 1: five to ten minutes every morning, I would sit with
Speaker 1: him and we just talked and in our conversations informally,
Speaker 1: he just injects certain ideas in terms of speech and everything.
Speaker 1: And then I sit in my office and I'd read
Speaker 1: and they take me to lunch. My whole day was
Speaker 1: reading and having conversations. And then the next year when
Speaker 1: I came and it was time to do interviews, I
Speaker 1: was more way or more season than I was the
Speaker 1: year before. And then that started the process me of
Speaker 1: wanting to know more and read more and to become
Speaker 1: more vocal and confident. So yeah, I'm indebted to him
Speaker 1: for that third pick. Derrick Coleman and Gary Payton two legends. Um,
Speaker 1: what's your best memories of that draft? Going third? Going? Third?
Speaker 1: Of course is over, you know in terms of you know,
Speaker 1: I'm here now. Um, you know you start thinking about
Speaker 1: man taking care of your mama right right that that look,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the most important memory. I had, the
Speaker 1: most powerful memory. But then immediately it sings in like, man,
Speaker 1: this is another level. Uh, there are hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: trying to be on this level, and you gotta be
Speaker 1: able to perform and compete and to sustain it, you know,
Speaker 1: because I think at that time it was what three
Speaker 1: years you get your pensions? That was like because not
Speaker 1: everybody stayed three years. And until you're go into a
Speaker 1: new city, you're never really paying bills on your own
Speaker 1: and what it what it means to buy a house
Speaker 1: and to get all this stuff together, So that stuff
Speaker 1: is on your mind too. And then I'm going to Denver.
Speaker 1: I've never been in snow like that, and then it's gloomy.
Speaker 1: Then I'm out of shape, you know, And so there's
Speaker 1: a lot man, But that's after the fact. But those
Speaker 1: are the things before they are the shape that I
Speaker 1: was thinking about them, like wow, it's it settles in
Speaker 1: you know that this is serious business. And let me
Speaker 1: ask you this question and of mental health. So I
Speaker 1: always tell people this and just I want your opinion
Speaker 1: on it. The things that I've seen growing up and
Speaker 1: struggling and hard, as hard as it was to make
Speaker 1: it out, that would cause mental health. I can't see
Speaker 1: me having mental health the day with the blessings that
Speaker 1: God has given me to change my life and my
Speaker 1: family's life. But we're not going through those same struggles,
Speaker 1: is it. Can you say that someone once they reach
Speaker 1: success and and and millions of dollars, that they can
Speaker 1: still deal with mental health after seeing the things that
Speaker 1: we come from. Yeah, that's that's tough. I think mental
Speaker 1: illness you have you have you have billion naires and
Speaker 1: you have million naires committing suicide, and it's all about
Speaker 1: when it's all said and done, it's all about perception.
Speaker 1: You know. You have people that are poor that are
Speaker 1: more at peace than people are wealthy, and you have
Speaker 1: people that are poor that are not at peace, and
Speaker 1: you have wealthy people that are at peace. So I
Speaker 1: think it eventually boils down to a state of mind.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, we we had it tough, but still
Speaker 1: life is tough, you know what I mean. You look
Speaker 1: at the conditions nowadays. Man, You look over what forty
Speaker 1: million and more people don't have can afford healthcare, and
Speaker 1: you gotta make tough choices. Pay for my mortgage or
Speaker 1: pay for my health. You know, these are choices that
Speaker 1: we shouldn't with the wealth of this nation. And there's
Speaker 1: just so many other things, the misinformation, the miseducation that
Speaker 1: we go through, things that we look. Look, I didn't know, man,
Speaker 1: when I was in high school. I said, Man, if
Speaker 1: I had known this, I could have probably had a
Speaker 1: different view of myself. You know, growing up that about
Speaker 1: two and a half hours in Natchez, there was this
Speaker 1: There's a book called The Prince of Slaves talking about
Speaker 1: ab do our mind. His father was the king of
Speaker 1: Timbuck two and in Timbuck to prior to West the
Speaker 1: West and up is having having universities. They had universities,
Speaker 1: they had public roles, they had public lights, books was
Speaker 1: the number one commodity. They were entreest in knowledge to
Speaker 1: that degree. They were so well advanced. But we look
Speaker 1: at images right of Africa being what barbaric and all
Speaker 1: of these things, and all these images we see for ourselves.
Speaker 1: But I'm looking, I'm looking at this said, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: they and all of that man and this dude was
Speaker 1: he was enslave. And this enslaver didn't know his father.
Speaker 1: I mean, the enslaver knew the key, but didn't know
Speaker 1: he had his son enslaved for all those kids. So
Speaker 1: I'm reading this story, I'm like, man, if I had
Speaker 1: known that, known that we we had this type of potential,
Speaker 1: who's to say I would have been a basketball player,
Speaker 1: you know? So so to to say that in coming
Speaker 1: we it's about perception, you know, And and we grow up.
Speaker 1: A lot of us we made it, but a lot
Speaker 1: of us we didn't. And like you know, this this
Speaker 1: misnos this this misnomer that you know a lot of
Speaker 1: people they used the ghetto as a as a as
Speaker 1: a card for toughness from the kiddle, not everybody from
Speaker 1: the man you got you got chumps in the ghetto too.
Speaker 1: And cowards in the ghetto, just like not everybody from
Speaker 1: the suburbs. It's soft. That ain't true. So to ask
Speaker 1: you a question, it just it deals with perception. And
Speaker 1: I was taught to that God gives everybody a strengthen
Speaker 1: everybody a weakness. It is up to unify a lout
Speaker 1: what that strength is to overcome that weakness. And so
Speaker 1: we all are experiencing hardships. But when I when I
Speaker 1: talk to children, when I talked to adults. You know,
Speaker 1: even though cord I adn't teaches us, whatever a law
Speaker 1: says that he's gonna try you, he always reinforces it
Speaker 1: with something good. When somebody says, somebody pointing the finger
Speaker 1: three point back back at you. So whenever you get
Speaker 1: hit with a hardship, always there's so many things will
Speaker 1: be grateful for. But whatever you focus on growths. So
Speaker 1: if you keep focusing on the negative, it's gonna continue
Speaker 1: to be negative, and it's gonna show. And they say,
Speaker 1: you're you're thinking influences your behavior. Your behavior forms your character,
Speaker 1: and your character determines your faith. So if you constantly
Speaker 1: thinking negative, now I can't do this and it well,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna end up in a bad position,
Speaker 1: So it goes either way. Yeah, you spoke to mental health. Um,
Speaker 1: can you talk to the depression and how that impacted
Speaker 1: your first couple of years? Uh in the league and
Speaker 1: differ man. Uh, there was a period and man, I
Speaker 1: got so depressed. Man I was. I was literally trying
Speaker 1: to count my coins. Man, can I make this stretch
Speaker 1: and go for it? Because I just didn't want to
Speaker 1: play no more. I was out of shape, you know,
Speaker 1: because I got bad information. I just lived well, scored
Speaker 1: freshman thirty point two points a game. Then I came
Speaker 1: back the next year sixty nine, s nine. I was
Speaker 1: way better shape. Now I got two big dudes. Some
Speaker 1: will argue that averaging twenty eight with a Stanley and
Speaker 1: Shaquille was more impressive than the thirty two without him. Right,
Speaker 1: But then I'm listening to people saying when you gotta
Speaker 1: come back, you gotta come and leave. Boy, I never
Speaker 1: had a trainer like you know, like kids do children
Speaker 1: do today, And so I just started eating and training.
Speaker 1: But I came back like I eventually end up getting
Speaker 1: the one Nino. Man. I was miserable then with that
Speaker 1: style that Paul West had had constantly running. Man. I
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is crazy. And then he didn't
Speaker 1: want to play me too right, and I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: blame it, and uh so I went through a period, man,
Speaker 1: I in the Denver the altitude. Yeah, man, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This ain't what I thought it was gonna be. And
Speaker 1: I was miserable. A lot of people don't know what
Speaker 1: I was miserable. Man. I was trying to find comfort
Speaker 1: through food, through relationships, you know, and all of that
Speaker 1: through women, you know, just to justice, you know, satisfy
Speaker 1: my conscience. And then it took one day. I was
Speaker 1: walking into the store and I saw a magazine. You
Speaker 1: picked it up and he said, he's a bust and
Speaker 1: it just clicked and I said, man, I don't want
Speaker 1: that to be my legacy. And the dude was with
Speaker 1: me at the time. I said, man, it's over. I'm changing.
Speaker 1: And that's when I started going to the gym. I'm
Speaker 1: doing staff Master for an hour, you know, I'm calling
Speaker 1: people in, let's go, you know, and we're training. And
Speaker 1: I lost like forty and I came back and then
Speaker 1: that next year I ended up getting most improved. But yeah,
Speaker 1: depression is real, man, Man, I never got to the
Speaker 1: point where I contemplated suicide, but I definitely got to
Speaker 1: the point where I said, God, if you take my
Speaker 1: life right now, I'm not even mad. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not even mad. Yeah. Into your rookie year, it was
Speaker 1: probably one of the best decisions you never made. I
Speaker 1: know for me, when I found Islam was the best
Speaker 1: decision for me. At the end of your rookie year,
Speaker 1: explained that process and how you immediately benefited from taking
Speaker 1: your shodo. The process, man was simple, Uh, simple and
Speaker 1: not um. I met a dude on Cofax in Denver
Speaker 1: bookstore named Selam Bookstore, and I would go in his
Speaker 1: book every day, like when we didn't have a game,
Speaker 1: I would go sit with him. I would buy his
Speaker 1: books and we would sit drink ti or whatever and
Speaker 1: have conversations and uh and along with reading the autobiographer
Speaker 1: of Malcolm that that pushed me in that direction. And
Speaker 1: I was in contact with this papist and Catholicism. They
Speaker 1: called it a priest or pastor, I can't remember priest.
Speaker 1: And he had a protegee named Mark James, and we
Speaker 1: became close. At our table one day we're having a conversation.
Speaker 1: It Slam came up. Yeah, we both recognized we were interested.
Speaker 1: He told me met a brother where we can get
Speaker 1: the clan. I went and got it. Man rushed back home.
Speaker 1: I was even though I read Malcolm and I was
Speaker 1: reading other books. I never picked up the Cordage right,
Speaker 1: which is crazy. And we came back. Man, I opened
Speaker 1: it up. I'm at my table and no more than
Speaker 1: three pages. I can't remember, and I can't remember what
Speaker 1: I read, but I remember to this day. I made
Speaker 1: me feel because I had a lot of questions growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, and I would constantly get you just gotta
Speaker 1: believe you can't question God, and that was unsatisfactory to me.
Speaker 1: And when I read those pages, man, it was just
Speaker 1: something in my soul. It just eight since it's like,
Speaker 1: there's no question that this is it. And I looked
Speaker 1: at him. I said, I don't know about you. My
Speaker 1: search is over. I'm gonna be a Muslim. So I
Speaker 1: started going to the master year. I started talking to
Speaker 1: people and uh getting material. And then that summer after
Speaker 1: that year, they had a rookie review and Utah, when
Speaker 1: you NBA players go play. I came back I think
Speaker 1: in August, and I embraced the Slam and people ask me,
Speaker 1: They said, what is it about this Slam that attracts you?
Speaker 1: I said, from the first day to now, at fifty three,
Speaker 1: every time I opened it up and I engage it
Speaker 1: and I just read it for the sacred reading, I
Speaker 1: engage it. I said, it's never ceased to satisfy my
Speaker 1: curiosity and answer my questions. And so as long as
Speaker 1: it's doing that, why wouldn't I You know, So for me,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's been why, and that's why you know
Speaker 1: I'm I. I'm constantly trying to be better and do
Speaker 1: what I do, whether physically, whether morally, most really social
Speaker 1: and politically. You know, I've understood a long time ago
Speaker 1: you don't have None of us would know everything. If
Speaker 1: we're always waiting to know everything before we move, we'll
Speaker 1: do nothing. My thing is whatever you feel, you know,
Speaker 1: you act upon it, and God to show you the rest.
Speaker 1: You know, So that's how I go. I'm not. I
Speaker 1: don't have the pride and arrogance like I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: it out there. That's when I was young. I didn't
Speaker 1: do that. I didn't raise my hand in class. I
Speaker 1: didn't want you to ask me no questions because I
Speaker 1: was always like embarrassed what I may say or not say,
Speaker 1: so I just rather sit back because I wasn't great
Speaker 1: in school. But I've learned over the years that you know,
Speaker 1: if I got something in my head, I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: it out to the public. I'm gonna see what's somebody's
Speaker 1: gonna throw something back. If I don't know, you know
Speaker 1: what that sounds. Let me check on that. That sounds logical,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if that's how I learned. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm always going to speak in engagements, and I'm
Speaker 1: always telling people what I read and telling me what
Speaker 1: they read. I'm gauging people because you never everybody has
Speaker 1: different experiences and different set of knowledge. I've asked you
Speaker 1: questions before and you gave me the answer. He was like,
Speaker 1: I can say this, but let me go read up
Speaker 1: on it. Let me let me you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You told me that a couple of times. You want
Speaker 1: to go read up on it before you ask the
Speaker 1: question for me. Yeah, I'll answer based upon my understanding,
Speaker 1: but let me look at it further. But that's just
Speaker 1: been my policy what I do, and I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: it out. I don't care. I'm gonna through it. Look,
Speaker 1: this is how I feel based upon this, this and this,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna holding And if you can't satisfy, I
Speaker 1: don't care what you're you're labeled it. I don't care
Speaker 1: if you're a scholar. I don't care if you need man.
Speaker 1: When it's all said and done, this ain't about arrogance.
Speaker 1: If you can make it make sense to me, I'll surrender.
Speaker 1: I'll submit, but just because of your label and you're
Speaker 1: saying but this, but if it don't make sense, it
Speaker 1: just don't make I'm not gonna do it just because
Speaker 1: of you. I don't. I don't operate like that when
Speaker 1: I was younger, but now, no, you gotta it can
Speaker 1: make sense. And sometimes people try to intimidate you, call
Speaker 1: you names, Are you you crazy? Well that's okay, I
Speaker 1: know my intentions. But if you make it make sense,
Speaker 1: I'll submit. The third season, things start to click. You
Speaker 1: have his nineteen for assist from the free throw line.
Speaker 1: Um speak to kind of things starting to come together
Speaker 1: and then the insults ability to help you break out.
Speaker 1: Dan was good for US Man ex player. He used
Speaker 1: to score, so he had a score mentality. Uh he
Speaker 1: brought me into the locker room and he said, look, man,
Speaker 1: the slatest clean did your it's your job to have
Speaker 1: and uh I was. I was still man, hesitant, apprehensive,
Speaker 1: you know, but I wanted to trust. He ended up
Speaker 1: keeping his word. And uh that was a season man,
Speaker 1: that just went extremely well for me, an say extremely well,
Speaker 1: it went well better than than the previous ones. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's when I ended up getting the most improved
Speaker 1: that year. Um and he he ended up You know,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's great when coaches are able
Speaker 1: to define roles, you know, you know, you you got
Speaker 1: people that can score and rebound defined roles. Not everybody's
Speaker 1: gonna be at school, you know. And he was able
Speaker 1: to define those roles like, these are the people we
Speaker 1: want with the ball more so than anybody, right, it
Speaker 1: goes through them. Needs to be established. And that came
Speaker 1: off of me losing that forty at forty pound. And uh,
Speaker 1: I was just a normal I was. I was. I
Speaker 1: was my high school weight. I was one five when
Speaker 1: I became my senior year with and they would trying
Speaker 1: to you. I said, I listened to somebody that told
Speaker 1: me that I need the game now you. So I'm
Speaker 1: doing me now and that's what happened. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: at this point your name is Mark Mood, I'm doing
Speaker 1: role Um. Coincidentally, you know, you're you're you're really starting
Speaker 1: to find yourself off the court, playing better on the court.
Speaker 1: But there's pushback from that from fans and and media.
Speaker 1: Can you speak to when you've kind of entrenched yourself
Speaker 1: and made the name change and have that crossover, because
Speaker 1: there's been historical athletes who have done the same, Can
Speaker 1: you speak to what that transition was like for you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, so many athletes before I have done that.
Speaker 1: The most notable, obviously is Muhammad ali Um. People sometimes
Speaker 1: are scared of what they don't know, but some people
Speaker 1: are very aware of the significance of the name change.
Speaker 1: To some people, they understand it to be a highly
Speaker 1: social and political move that you made, because look, most
Speaker 1: of our names residues of slavery, no matter how how
Speaker 1: how we want to avoid that for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: And so when you decide to take the initiative to
Speaker 1: choose your own name, and it's not one of those
Speaker 1: names for people that understand history, and they can get
Speaker 1: offended by it, like, oh, we lost this m He
Speaker 1: has a mind of his own, He thinks for himself,
Speaker 1: you know. So I think some of that came from that,
Speaker 1: I really do, uh, And a lot of it came
Speaker 1: from the fact that, look, we have in every walk
Speaker 1: of life, whether Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, atheists, whatever, you have
Speaker 1: people that live a certain way. They claim to be
Speaker 1: one thing and they don't totally practice. None of us
Speaker 1: are perfect, right and some U can't tell right, uh,
Speaker 1: in terms of but when you begin to like a C.
Speaker 1: Green in the n b A. He showed his Christianity,
Speaker 1: but he was also kind of shown he wasn't a
Speaker 1: part of the country club because he was so strict
Speaker 1: with his beliefs. So when you begin, when I began,
Speaker 1: when I first accepted, first accept it was oh, hey,
Speaker 1: no problem. But when they started to see me engaging
Speaker 1: people in conversation, praying in the locker room, help, I
Speaker 1: gotta pray before the buzz go off, and I'm not
Speaker 1: Now I'm trying to have real conversation now, not just
Speaker 1: about some superficial, superficial stuff. Now it becomes an issue,
Speaker 1: and it's like, there's this since that I don't want
Speaker 1: him to infect other people right, and I really felt that.
Speaker 1: I really felt that from the bottom of my heart,
Speaker 1: and it ended up coming out, uh, what's his name,
Speaker 1: Mike Evans, assistant coach. I went to the point of
Speaker 1: asking someone, uh, behind my back, about this slam stuff
Speaker 1: that he's been saying. And he came to he said, mom, Mood,
Speaker 1: I talked to a religious He said, you don't have
Speaker 1: to be praying that nothing. So he figured out, an't know,
Speaker 1: I'm just a not most of them. It is not serious.
Speaker 1: But I read and I ended up explaining to him,
Speaker 1: I listen, that's not correct. And I gave him some
Speaker 1: verses in the God and I said, Mike, from here
Speaker 1: on out, man, if you got a question, you don't
Speaker 1: have to sneak behind my back to go ask somebody
Speaker 1: and then see if I'm practicing my religion, right, I said,
Speaker 1: come ask me. I said, I don't have no problem
Speaker 1: telling you the truth. And I said, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you. When I tell you something, go look it
Speaker 1: up because I want That's how I'm gonna gain a
Speaker 1: person's trust. And where I show you something, you find
Speaker 1: it for yourself and you're listening a little bit more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So in the dock. Um, he became national attention to
Speaker 1: ninety six when you decided not to stand for the
Speaker 1: national anthem. But you have been doing it but four
Speaker 1: to six months, I think, he said in the dock
Speaker 1: before that, when that kind of hit the national media.
Speaker 1: And we're at a time where obviously today something hits,
Speaker 1: we can instantly give our side the story, defend whatever
Speaker 1: we're not in that time. How did your life change?
Speaker 1: It was? It was pretty immediate. Uh, the fall back.
Speaker 1: I remember after doing that that interview after shoot around,
Speaker 1: I'm going home. We have a game against Shaquille, Little
Speaker 1: Neo land though, And and the reason I said that, man,
Speaker 1: I'm these are conversations we have all the time, right
Speaker 1: on the bus, on the plane, We're having them. And
Speaker 1: so I didn't really think anything of it. I'm just
Speaker 1: speaking what I believe to be true. But I knew
Speaker 1: that it was serious. When even more so I knew
Speaker 1: it was serious at the shoot around, I knew it
Speaker 1: was even extra serious when Bernie called me to his
Speaker 1: office when I got to the Rhino and he said, well,
Speaker 1: he said, the NBA wants to suspend you if if
Speaker 1: you don't stand what do you say? Said Bernie I'm
Speaker 1: not standing. He said, well, some people want to call
Speaker 1: you to get him on the phone, and so we're
Speaker 1: now talking. I don't I wish I could remember who
Speaker 1: it was. And as we were talking, they said, uh.
Speaker 1: They started talking to me, trying to convince me. I said, listen, man,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stand. I said, so you do what
Speaker 1: you gotta do, and I'll do it I have to do.
Speaker 1: And I'm so green man, literally, I've never been suspended
Speaker 1: in my life. I'm thinking it's gonna take an active legislation.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be able to go play for a few weeks.
Speaker 1: And then they got to go through a board in
Speaker 1: the process and boom, and I'm like, can I go
Speaker 1: put my stuff on, man and go play? He said no.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm suspended now. He said yeah. I said,
Speaker 1: what Can I get dressed and go into the arena
Speaker 1: and support the team? He says no. I said, huh.
Speaker 1: He said no, they don't want you on the premises.
Speaker 1: Have a go. So I walked out and went down,
Speaker 1: said what I had to say to the teammates and
Speaker 1: they looked and I drove home. Before I knew it, Man,
Speaker 1: it was global. It was all over the news. Then
Speaker 1: I got on the phone with some people that I knew,
Speaker 1: a mentor of mine, and we talked. And that's the
Speaker 1: only reason, the only reason I came back the next
Speaker 1: day or whenever it was the next game, is because
Speaker 1: the example that he gave me about something that the
Speaker 1: Prophet did in light of a situation when there's a
Speaker 1: Jewish funeral possession passing back and they were a war
Speaker 1: at the time, and the Prophet stood up and his
Speaker 1: companions like, hey, we're fighting them, and they're fighting us.
Speaker 1: We're killing each other. He said, what are you standing?
Speaker 1: He said, I'm not standing because they gave I'm not
Speaker 1: standing for their calls. I'm standing because God gave a
Speaker 1: life and he took her life. He said, So you
Speaker 1: can stand and not be for what America and its
Speaker 1: brutality and it's in its imperialistic ways and represent you
Speaker 1: could be standing for those who are pressed, who are
Speaker 1: the victims, and you'd be making prayer. And I was
Speaker 1: mad at him when he told me that in a
Speaker 1: way because the pride in me didn't. But he made
Speaker 1: so much sense, and I like the problem, if you
Speaker 1: make sense, expect it. Yeah, I mean, I was furious
Speaker 1: you know what I said, because I knew what the
Speaker 1: media would say, You're gonna And so when I came
Speaker 1: back to this very old so you made a compromisy. Listen, man,
Speaker 1: as a Muslim, as a human being, we make a decision.
Speaker 1: But if we see something better, we do that. I said.
Speaker 1: But don't make no mistakes. I said, I still feel
Speaker 1: the same way that that my position hasn't changed. And
Speaker 1: I had to keep beating that to him and let
Speaker 1: them know I'm not gonna backpedal. I'm not gonna become
Speaker 1: less outspoken as a result of this. We can go
Speaker 1: back to the same process if you want to and
Speaker 1: kick me kick me out again, no problem, you know.
Speaker 1: And and so that's just been my position, and and
Speaker 1: it's it's my position, brother, because I said to myself
Speaker 1: years ago, and I keep repeating this, and we all
Speaker 1: have to as athletes. How many times you wake up?
Speaker 1: You got to motivate your remind yourself taught, And I said,
Speaker 1: you know what my mission is to live and die
Speaker 1: with a free conscience and a free soul, whether people
Speaker 1: like it or not. That real quick. A month before
Speaker 1: you suspended ninety six Bulls Historic team, you dropped thirty
Speaker 1: two on that team touched us about that game. In
Speaker 1: your mindset that game, Jordan's. They put you in the
Speaker 1: the point guard. They were trying to run him at
Speaker 1: the point and he had just got back from getting
Speaker 1: lit up by Damon Starterman, and there was another guard
Speaker 1: that lit him up. And I think I was the
Speaker 1: third visit, and I'm saying to myself, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be the odd ball, you know, because we get offended.
Speaker 1: That's like, m hm, he's six, what eight? And my mood,
Speaker 1: you guarden route tonight on the post, give me the ball.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get offended. This is my position. This is
Speaker 1: what I played. So I know you Jordan's, but I
Speaker 1: ain't saying this. I ain't looking like this. But in
Speaker 1: your mind you're like, are you serious? Oh no, I
Speaker 1: can't be the odd ball, So you go struck me.
Speaker 1: Even you already want to kill it, come out with
Speaker 1: a kill him. But even then it's like, no, you
Speaker 1: gotta even have more now, you know. And so that
Speaker 1: was my mindset. I'm trying to kill him to get
Speaker 1: an off of me immediately, which ended up working, and
Speaker 1: they started changing up guys, and but I tell guys
Speaker 1: all the time, say, look, man, y'all know I said, look,
Speaker 1: it was nice to score those thirty two and beat him,
Speaker 1: but I would rather flip it around and have the championship,
Speaker 1: obviously battling against him, and then you know, hearing him speak, uh,
Speaker 1: how he spoke about you in your defense? How did
Speaker 1: that make you feel? Oh? You mean during the the
Speaker 1: anthem No, the anthem part, yeah, right, No, I was
Speaker 1: with all the things that are circling Michael Jordan. To
Speaker 1: hear him say something positive about that, it was surprising.
Speaker 1: And again, I'm very appreciative anytime, man, irrespective if I
Speaker 1: care about the person or not, I'm quick to acknowledge
Speaker 1: I'm not the what's the word I'm looking for. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say naive, but I can't think of
Speaker 1: the world right now. But I may not like Trump,
Speaker 1: I might not care for Trump, but if Trump says
Speaker 1: something that makes sense, it's it's the truth that I'm
Speaker 1: connected sense. But I don't mean I care for you
Speaker 1: too much. With Kanye and a lot of people, so
Speaker 1: I listened to the information and if it makes sense,
Speaker 1: I go with. If it don't, some people though, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you can't ever tell I said so you're telling me
Speaker 1: this man can't tell you anything about business. He can't
Speaker 1: tell you now you emotional. So even with Jordan's I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that that you said that. I mean, it
Speaker 1: means a lot to me. Yeah. So that's where in
Speaker 1: the aftermafter the national anthem, you were black ball from
Speaker 1: the league. Twenty years later, Colin Kaepernick is involved in
Speaker 1: the same situation. Well, can you tell me some similarities
Speaker 1: and the same things that he were going through that
Speaker 1: you were going through. Well, he was publicly condemned for
Speaker 1: his statements. Um, you know, because of our labels, people
Speaker 1: don't necessarily when we label ourselves and we allow society
Speaker 1: and label us, they don't see the rest of us. Right,
Speaker 1: So when you're an actress and actor and athlete, anytime
Speaker 1: you say something outside of that framework, it's sacrilegious. It's
Speaker 1: it's viewed as you know, ridiculous, shut up and dribble.
Speaker 1: You don't have the capacity to speak in this lane.
Speaker 1: So this is the same thing that happened to him.
Speaker 1: And also, you know the I don't know what his
Speaker 1: career was like before, but diminishing minutes that he began
Speaker 1: to receive as a result, because as soon as that's
Speaker 1: something like wow, this is similar because one thing that's
Speaker 1: thought playing you less, and then they have a media
Speaker 1: that's backing on. So we're not just that, but the
Speaker 1: media media that says, oh, he's lost it, he's lost,
Speaker 1: he can't play anymore to justify. So yeah, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at all, I'm like, wow, this is so similar to
Speaker 1: death threats, right, all of that, and these are every
Speaker 1: every This is like the playbook, right, it's everything that
Speaker 1: I went through. I'm like, you know, so that's why
Speaker 1: I sent him immediately. I think I was new on
Speaker 1: social media at the time. I said, look, I'm four
Speaker 1: year thousand present and just wanted to send my my
Speaker 1: voice out. Um. But it wasn't surprising. I mean history
Speaker 1: is replete with these examples of every time a person,
Speaker 1: in particular a black athletes about something, he's automatically uh,
Speaker 1: condemned and and the humanized. Yeah, because you want to
Speaker 1: you wanna you don't want other people to be attracted
Speaker 1: to that, right, It's like he might influence kind of
Speaker 1: like with norm Chomsky said, the threat of a good example, right,
Speaker 1: so you know he might infect the rest of them.
Speaker 1: They might start thinking in terms of trying to make
Speaker 1: a difference social change, and it's you mentioned social media
Speaker 1: and that was the biggest difference from our time to
Speaker 1: his time. And I didn't it didn't. I knew it
Speaker 1: was different, but it didn't resonate to me until Dr
Speaker 1: Harry Edwards ones that influenced Don Carlos and Cream do
Speaker 1: what your bough to take those positions. He said to me,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say this because I think anytime anyone
Speaker 1: takes a position, no matter how big or great, you
Speaker 1: applaud it. You try to support it as much as
Speaker 1: humanly possible. But people are gonna compare. And he was,
Speaker 1: like my mood, he said. When Muhammad Ali took his position,
Speaker 1: he said, they had a movement backing it, the black
Speaker 1: the Black Power movement that they can frame it under.
Speaker 1: When Kaepernick did what he did, they had the Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement that they can frame it under. He said.
Speaker 1: We made it easier because you can attach it to something.
Speaker 1: He said, when you and Craig did what you did,
Speaker 1: they didn't have no moods like you're in the ocean
Speaker 1: all along, he said, which made that tough. I said, wow,
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that like that is it as deep?
Speaker 1: That's why he is we is right. But I could
Speaker 1: only imagine because a lot of the letters man when
Speaker 1: we were moving, I had a trash bag, and the
Speaker 1: dude confused the trash bag from the trash and I
Speaker 1: had so so many letters of people hate mail. But
Speaker 1: I had just as many, if not more, support from Jews, Christians, atheists,
Speaker 1: and they were dropping down. They were breaking down history right,
Speaker 1: and I understood that. You know, as a system always right,
Speaker 1: there's an agenda, and more people, I think than not
Speaker 1: on the street, because the post is on the street.
Speaker 1: When you go to barbershops and when you go mostly anywhere,
Speaker 1: the private conversations people are having. Many people know what's happening.
Speaker 1: They know, they're disgusted, they're upset. You know, they're struggling,
Speaker 1: white and black, they're struggling, and but there's this cognitive dissidence.
Speaker 1: You know, America's great, but it's terrible. But now you
Speaker 1: gotta deal with the terrible. It's so bad that you know,
Speaker 1: they say, look, by two thousand fifty blacks, generational income
Speaker 1: will be z ro. It takes two hundred eight years
Speaker 1: just to reach economic parody with Europeans, generational wealth for
Speaker 1: mostly every medium income family. If you were to reduce
Speaker 1: their income and tell everything and come back with liquid,
Speaker 1: they will have a thousand and some dollars to their name.
Speaker 1: But but white Europeans will have a hundred and some thousands.
Speaker 1: This is this is unjust. So there's so many things
Speaker 1: people you know, aware of and uh yeah, so when
Speaker 1: that was happening, all of these thoughts, you know, like wow,
Speaker 1: this is a part of it. As a blueprint, this
Speaker 1: is what they do because they don't want people to know.
Speaker 1: They don't want people to find out. And I'm just determined, man,
Speaker 1: as long as I lived to the day I die,
Speaker 1: as much information as I can't whoever would listen, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna say something. But I also love to listen,
Speaker 1: you know, and all of those two things how you learn.
Speaker 1: We have so many people that are silent when the truth,
Speaker 1: you know, begs for advocacy, begs for supporters, you know,
Speaker 1: to just you know, speak to their conscious man. And
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the biggest challenges that
Speaker 1: we but I understand where it's coming from. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that are fearful because time and again
Speaker 1: history have shown that you gotta play the game because
Speaker 1: if you don't, you know, you might lose your job,
Speaker 1: you might lose your life. Right, But we're gonna die anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, brother told me, said, man, none of us
Speaker 1: gonna make it out here live. So you got a choice.
Speaker 1: You know, do you want to leave on the better truth?
Speaker 1: A better falsehood? And I know it's easier said than done,
Speaker 1: because we're so caught up in this materialism, Like, well,
Speaker 1: y'all don't want to leave. And no, man, look, George
Speaker 1: Washington Carver said, no one has the right to come
Speaker 1: into this world and go out of it without leaving
Speaker 1: behind distinct and legit them in reasons for having passed
Speaker 1: through it. So as all said and done, it's about
Speaker 1: leaving a legacy worth leaving. We all got a choice.
Speaker 1: And and for me, look, I'm not perfect, none of
Speaker 1: us are. I have my flaws. I'm not the most
Speaker 1: eloquent and articulate and smartest guy in the world. But
Speaker 1: I know where my heart lies and and I know
Speaker 1: what my intentions are, and forever I'm gonna strive to
Speaker 1: be better and to benefit people as much as I can,
Speaker 1: you know, as much as I can. Another question how
Speaker 1: important it is it is today for us to control
Speaker 1: our own narratives. Super important to control our own narrative
Speaker 1: because most of our existence are narrative has been controlled.
Speaker 1: What was that? What was that African proverb? Until lions big,
Speaker 1: until lions become this. I hate when I can't do this,
Speaker 1: but it's um um growing up when you hear stories
Speaker 1: about Africa, when you hear stories about even if it's
Speaker 1: listening to the commentary on Kyrie right. Uh, it's important
Speaker 1: to do the research, to add to to be analytical,
Speaker 1: to investigate for yourself, and also to own your own
Speaker 1: story because like even even with documentaries, there are people
Speaker 1: if you don't own certain things, they can demand that, look,
Speaker 1: we don't want that show. You want this out and
Speaker 1: it could change the breath of the conversation tremendously, you know.
Speaker 1: So Uh that should be That's a part of having power,
Speaker 1: being able to tell our stories. You know, you can
Speaker 1: talk about economic power, you can talk that that's important too,
Speaker 1: but that's a part of it. You got to own
Speaker 1: your story and and and and tell it the right way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the documentary you find out who your father is. Uh,
Speaker 1: you find out when the where you found out that
Speaker 1: your father's family excuse me, and uh you you meet,
Speaker 1: you find out that Window Lattner was a two time
Speaker 1: All star in your family and the A B A.
Speaker 1: What was your my frame when you found out somebody
Speaker 1: and your family was in the league you come from whop?
Speaker 1: That was funny? Man? But but but I also had
Speaker 1: I thought that when I bought my mother her home
Speaker 1: that day, you know, and just flying cost always thinking
Speaker 1: something bad's gonna happen. I was one of the things
Speaker 1: I would think would happen. And because I was constantly
Speaker 1: doing was man, uh, this is too good to be true.
Speaker 1: I might getting the plane crash and come to find
Speaker 1: out he died in the plane crash. I think he
Speaker 1: also played with Dr J and Dr J came to
Speaker 1: a gulfport, which is yeah, yeah, funeral. I said, wow,
Speaker 1: what I don't want to say coincidence, circle, full circle,
Speaker 1: and the whole family, large portion of the family has
Speaker 1: connected to basketball. So it made sense, you know that
Speaker 1: this is what I gravitated to. I can see no
Speaker 1: hoops at the table now. And when we met the Landers,
Speaker 1: I looked at the table. I didn't see no just
Speaker 1: no third and ten. I didn't look, I didn't see him, man,
Speaker 1: but I adn't gonna lie to you man without history.
Speaker 1: And I told him this at the table, I said, listen,
Speaker 1: they said, how do you feel? And I can't remember
Speaker 1: the exact words. I said, Look, I have to be
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it to you straight, with no chaser.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, a part of me I'm excited,
Speaker 1: you know. And I said, but a part of me
Speaker 1: also with the history of this nation, relationship with blacks
Speaker 1: and whites. I said, Still there's unanswered questions, I said,
Speaker 1: I think about you know, this person that has sex
Speaker 1: with my mother, wasn't just for reputation? Did he molester
Speaker 1: the raper? You know? Why am I the only child
Speaker 1: in my family that don't know? Brother's father was white.
Speaker 1: He knows it. My younger brother of African American, But
Speaker 1: for all of my life I don't know mine. And
Speaker 1: she's always been quiet. This is why some for some reason,
Speaker 1: I don't think. I think it's somebody with some importance
Speaker 1: because she never told me, but the other ones knew,
Speaker 1: So why don't I know? And so I'm thinking maybe
Speaker 1: this is a person, maybe he was a politician, maybe
Speaker 1: he had money. Keep your mouth shut? Never. But even
Speaker 1: if that was the case, it never benefited us. We
Speaker 1: we missed meals, we didn't have certain clothes, you know,
Speaker 1: freezing in the window, you know. So I can't help
Speaker 1: but think. And I told him that, you know. And
Speaker 1: then they were trying to say who they thought it was,
Speaker 1: and this guy was this, and this and this. I
Speaker 1: hear you, maybe so, but still I don't know. And
Speaker 1: it still that doesn't make sense. If he's that such
Speaker 1: a guy, if he they knew he was, he loved
Speaker 1: women and he dated black women and it was public,
Speaker 1: then why would I know? That doesn't make sense you
Speaker 1: talk about Uh, Well, on on that note, it's good,
Speaker 1: just just certain because I found that I was related
Speaker 1: to Bumby the Rapper, and we found out that we
Speaker 1: can go get this property that's in my family's name
Speaker 1: in Louisiana. They just made a rule in Louisiana that
Speaker 1: if you can come up with the with the paperwork
Speaker 1: and prove that your family owned this land and they
Speaker 1: got to give it back to you, ain't got to
Speaker 1: buy it. So that's what I just found out from Bumby.
Speaker 1: So it's good that you're trying to find it out
Speaker 1: because you might have some land somewhere um your love
Speaker 1: for the game. Obviously, things ended the way you didn't
Speaker 1: want it to end with the NBA. But the Big
Speaker 1: Three came about when you first knew heard that you
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to play again professionally against other pros.
Speaker 1: The game that's been taken away from you, the platform
Speaker 1: has been taken away from you, had a chance to
Speaker 1: do that again almost at fifty. How you felt? How
Speaker 1: did you feel? There was a combination of excitement and nervous.
Speaker 1: It's been so long you've been out the game, and
Speaker 1: then you know coming in you're gonna probably be one of,
Speaker 1: if not the oldest, you know out there because a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't take care of themselves and uh,
Speaker 1: and you know there's politics and everything too right and
Speaker 1: so if it wasn't for c J, uh, because that
Speaker 1: was the guy that brought it to me initially, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't interested because a lot of leads pop up
Speaker 1: and then they failed. And then when c J came,
Speaker 1: I was at that time in my life. You know what, man,
Speaker 1: I want to go do it and it just so happens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because Gary didn't really want to play me. I'm just
Speaker 1: be straight up because but but what's his name ended
Speaker 1: up going down White Chocolate, so he was forced to
Speaker 1: play me. Then when you get you end up getting
Speaker 1: drafted in the Big three by somebody was drafted within
Speaker 1: the NBA draft Garrett page. And that's a story behind that. Now,
Speaker 1: if you want me to Jake, it's all the smoke now,
Speaker 1: because still even though I didn't miss a shot in
Speaker 1: the in the in they didn't miss a shot in
Speaker 1: the whole combine combine, it was in the best Jake,
Speaker 1: I saw guys going before friends friend. I already know
Speaker 1: it's politics. So I'm sitting there and c J told
Speaker 1: me they would get ready to pick somebody that's the
Speaker 1: equivalent of Richard. He said, man, you already got this
Speaker 1: and this and this. He said, man, you need another guard.
Speaker 1: What happens if what's his name? Go down? He said,
Speaker 1: who I'm mood? He saw you right right, But I'm
Speaker 1: just look, Garrett didn't want He didn't want me, even
Speaker 1: though public perception because I started playing well, so as
Speaker 1: I'm playing as when White Chocolate went down, he was
Speaker 1: forced to play me. So now I'm getting into a
Speaker 1: rhythm I'm playing. This was game one of the season.
Speaker 1: This is Brooklyn. Yeah, yeah, so he started playing, but
Speaker 1: he was still trying to play. Uh, I forget that
Speaker 1: the guys on the team, because one guy good dude,
Speaker 1: but just he wasn't he wasn't able to hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so things started shifting from me, I'm i'm I'm
Speaker 1: getting my rhythm AND's going now you can't see me.
Speaker 1: But there were moments he was still try. But but anyway,
Speaker 1: making long story, no, no, it's it's real because we
Speaker 1: we deal with that though even sometimes I love him,
Speaker 1: but even so times sometimes among our own like man,
Speaker 1: oh man, don't have to be this way, right, we
Speaker 1: make it harder than what it is, you know. But
Speaker 1: I ended up I think, going on a two two years,
Speaker 1: uh two year run and then slowly you know how
Speaker 1: it is, you know, Making long it was beautiful. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed it the competitors, but for me even more so, man,
Speaker 1: it was the It was the being able to play
Speaker 1: at this age and still be functional with guys that
Speaker 1: are much younger, you know. And I would joke with guys.
Speaker 1: I say, hey, man, you know I don't like I
Speaker 1: ain't no trash sugger, but I'll play around. I said,
Speaker 1: if you scored twenty and I score, I score, uh
Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen? You look bad if I score, I said,
Speaker 1: if our school. So either way, you got more if
Speaker 1: I scored more than you. If I scored the same,
Speaker 1: I scored a little less. So I'm trying to put
Speaker 1: in their mind because they come out trying harder. Now
Speaker 1: you know, I ain't gonna let this old dude, you know.
Speaker 1: But that was the It was fun for me, man,
Speaker 1: And just to meet people you don't like yourself, and
Speaker 1: we didn't know each other coming up, and just to
Speaker 1: see people that I was watching on TV after all
Speaker 1: of the younger generation and just their personalities and most
Speaker 1: everybody I meet man on level, whether the actors or athletes.
Speaker 1: And I tell people because sometimes you get around man.
Speaker 1: These athletes said no, no, no, no, no, said you're
Speaker 1: going everybody. We're human, everybody cann have that. Then you
Speaker 1: got some bad ones, you got some arigans. I said,
Speaker 1: But for the most part, man, my experience, most of
Speaker 1: the people that I've met, they're really good people, now humble.
Speaker 1: A lot of them had to be to get there,
Speaker 1: I said, So don't don't label all because of that
Speaker 1: one or two experiences. Most people they'll speak to you
Speaker 1: and they'll be kind to you, you know, because they
Speaker 1: come out of some of the same social you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a consion they've gotten. Yeah, so it was it
Speaker 1: was great, man. It was great for me, and I
Speaker 1: know for me in a lot of players in the
Speaker 1: Big Three, it was it's an honor to have you
Speaker 1: in the league. Not only because we can say we're
Speaker 1: part of the league that's giving you an opportunity to
Speaker 1: play the game again, but what you mean to us.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a lot of guys like me, Like
Speaker 1: even when I met you, I just became Muslim, but
Speaker 1: I looked up to you for so many reasons, and
Speaker 1: one thing is for being your own person and speaking
Speaker 1: your mind. But I was told when I was going
Speaker 1: through the George for I think that you've got something
Speaker 1: similar to you. Everything that you've been through as a
Speaker 1: kid and you're upbringing built you for that moment when
Speaker 1: you had to take that stand. And I was told
Speaker 1: the same thing. Everything that I was I learned that
Speaker 1: I've been through with the NBA and growing up to
Speaker 1: get here, it built me to go through the things
Speaker 1: with George Floyd and I just I just want to
Speaker 1: give your flowers into and tell you how much we
Speaker 1: appreciate you because a lot of us wouldn't even think
Speaker 1: about being in that space. I have the confidence to
Speaker 1: stand up. You know, a lot of people are not
Speaker 1: risking anything, but you was risking everything and stood up
Speaker 1: to do something that didn't benefit you. And that's one
Speaker 1: thing I learned about being a Muslim. Try to wake
Speaker 1: up every day to show allow you deserve everything he's
Speaker 1: blessing with, blessing you with, but also making a point
Speaker 1: to do something that don't benefit you, right and and
Speaker 1: for you. You don't know how you benefit so many
Speaker 1: people and how you and what you mean to so
Speaker 1: many of us. Man. So I just I've told you
Speaker 1: this a couple of times, but publicly I want to
Speaker 1: tell y'all love you. Man. I appreciate everything you stand for,
Speaker 1: what you mean, and what you do and and and
Speaker 1: and and the person you are because you gave a
Speaker 1: lot of us confidence to to be ourselves and to
Speaker 1: understand to have our own mind and think for ourselfs.
Speaker 1: So I love you, Burn, I appreciate you, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. I'm always humble when I hear that. And
Speaker 1: you've always been uh, that guy in the Big Three. Man,
Speaker 1: every time I see you smile, you're positive, encouraging, So
Speaker 1: that goes a long way. You know, there's a saying
Speaker 1: I think Ironerstein may have said it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I said, if you want to find yourself, lose yourself
Speaker 1: in the service of others, you're not really believing that
Speaker 1: yourself in the service of others, because you know, when
Speaker 1: you begin to to share, whether it's information, whether it's
Speaker 1: your wealth, whether it's your time, you really it does
Speaker 1: benefit you. It benefits you in enormous ways, your peace,
Speaker 1: your health, and it all comes back, It all comes back.
Speaker 1: But you do it just you want to do it
Speaker 1: out of just genuineness, just for your love of humanity,
Speaker 1: even though people may not really understand it. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Because as a saying that in a
Speaker 1: slam that if you take one life unjustly, it just
Speaker 1: thought you've killed all of humanity. That's how valuable life is.
Speaker 1: And so you flip that if you benefit one life, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. So we're constantly trying to increase our blessings
Speaker 1: in every in every single way. Man, So I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: It means a lot to hear to hear you and
Speaker 1: to you here, to hear you and Craig Herds like
Speaker 1: I had to speak in engagement and he kind of
Speaker 1: said the same thing. I think that means more to
Speaker 1: me what I did for George, for to have people
Speaker 1: like you and George and you and Craig Heards comes
Speaker 1: to me and tell me, man, I'm proud of you
Speaker 1: for what you've done. You know what I'm saying, because
Speaker 1: I didn't know I'll be in that position, but I've
Speaker 1: seen what you guys. You know we've been through. So
Speaker 1: to hear that from you and him, it mean a
Speaker 1: lot to me, and it wants it wants me to
Speaker 1: continue to do the right thing and do something for
Speaker 1: other people. Yeah. When you know, when you put yourself
Speaker 1: in a line of fire, as a whole different different
Speaker 1: ball games, you know, and so there's a whole different
Speaker 1: level of respect for whoever because not everybody does it,
Speaker 1: and we do it in different you know, do it
Speaker 1: in different ways. There are different ways to help, but
Speaker 1: that one right there us so overt and in your
Speaker 1: face and there's a lot of risk involved. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we do more of it. Yeah, everybody voice matter consistently
Speaker 1: before we get out of here. Uh you spoke to
Speaker 1: Dr Edwards saying that there was nothing really to attach
Speaker 1: what you were standing for at your time too, there
Speaker 1: wasn't too much support. You were really like almost on
Speaker 1: an island. Um looking back on that now and seeing
Speaker 1: you said you had a bag of people who appreciate
Speaker 1: and we're riding with you. But then when you see
Speaker 1: guys like all the guys have spoken your documentary, Steph
Speaker 1: and Shack and everyone kind of Jaden Rose, thank you
Speaker 1: and praise you and show you love you sacrifice what
Speaker 1: we all dream of doing. We all dreamed of being
Speaker 1: a hooper, and you were at the most elite level
Speaker 1: and you sacrificed your career for that. Now looking back,
Speaker 1: when you're getting and not that you're even looking for,
Speaker 1: but you're actually getting the praise and respect and and love. Now,
Speaker 1: is it better late than never? Is it bitter sweet?
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel now of looking back
Speaker 1: on the situation when you're kind of standing on your
Speaker 1: own but now there's so much support. Um, Times change,
Speaker 1: you know, people's people's thoughts about things change. The ones
Speaker 1: that were in the video were the ones that, uh,
Speaker 1: it's I've been reserved me correctly when I was going
Speaker 1: through that process. Were also the ones who said some
Speaker 1: positive things, chat said some jayleen um um. But you know,
Speaker 1: you're always grateful. You know, we look, we all reach
Speaker 1: points in our life at different times, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I hear a lot with man, you were before your time,
Speaker 1: you're before your time, and I appreciate that. But I'm
Speaker 1: at the same time, I'm always rooting for people like
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for myself because there's so much I can
Speaker 1: learn and so much more I can do. I'm never
Speaker 1: comfortable with I reached the top of the mountain. No,
Speaker 1: that's when you start, That's when things start going wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm always feeling that desk. I could do more, I
Speaker 1: can learn more, you know, I can benefit more people.
Speaker 1: And and so even in that case, you know, some
Speaker 1: people be like, oh, man, it's too late now you
Speaker 1: should have been No. I'm like, look, it's better late
Speaker 1: than never. You know, you're you're here because you know
Speaker 1: this is the time for you. And so now that
Speaker 1: you're here, it's up to you to do something. And
Speaker 1: I'm always rooting for people. I look at people, I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: when you know something, you feel you know something, and
Speaker 1: you're talking to somebody and they disagree. You understand, but
Speaker 1: you I wish you could see the way I see it.
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna condemn you for now. I'll say
Speaker 1: I just agree or disagree, but I'm gonna always be
Speaker 1: rooting for you. You can always be rooting for you. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it's I don't know the word to use yet. Uh
Speaker 1: it's not coming to me. But um, there's a timing
Speaker 1: and a place for everything. And I'm very grateful for
Speaker 1: those voices and those people. And my only, my only
Speaker 1: thing would just be man too. Uh to continue. I
Speaker 1: know it's cliche, and it's so hard to continue when
Speaker 1: things are constantly coming your way. But like anything, if
Speaker 1: you want to be great at something, I tell everybody
Speaker 1: this myself, you gotta practice. If you want to be
Speaker 1: great in basketball, you gotta practice. If you want to
Speaker 1: be great in patience, you gotta practice. If you want
Speaker 1: to be great and being a social activist, you gotta practice.
Speaker 1: But you also in practice it. You gotta surround yourself.
Speaker 1: They do studies all the time, and it's a that
Speaker 1: if if you out of shape, hang with somebody in shape.
Speaker 1: If you're not smart, hang with a smart person. Why
Speaker 1: because there's a there's a language, there's a lifestyle, there's
Speaker 1: a pattern, and the more you're around them, the stuff
Speaker 1: is going to eventually rub all. You're getting your flowers.
Speaker 1: But I wish they could throw max contract act that
Speaker 1: you missed. Oh no, but but you know what I'm
Speaker 1: also it's funny you say that. You know I'm not
Speaker 1: dude though, like you hear a lot of people going
Speaker 1: to they win settlements and someone's asking this man, if
Speaker 1: you want a settlement, like would you? I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, that'll be very enticing and do they all
Speaker 1: know a lot of players though I'm saying I'm not
Speaker 1: the only one that they did this, And I said
Speaker 1: for me, I wouldn't allow you to pay me if
Speaker 1: you're not willing to go back and pay before because
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't. I can't operate like that. I
Speaker 1: got paid. But no, because it almost sounds like hush money,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. No, I'm not going out
Speaker 1: like I'd rather be broke and we all be on
Speaker 1: the same level. Then you pay me, and I know
Speaker 1: that Craig and so many other people ain't benefited. No,
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta take care of about all right,
Speaker 1: quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let us know,
Speaker 1: first thing you do in the morning, last thing you
Speaker 1: do before you go to sleep. I know that. Oh uh.
Speaker 1: I pray and I read and didn't pray. Yeah, five
Speaker 1: dinner guests there are alive. I want to hear these
Speaker 1: great conversation. I hate those questions though. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be real with y'all because there's so many, so many. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just give us five. Prophet Muhammed of course, Adam first
Speaker 1: man and how Eve yeah, both of them, both of them. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: that's three. Um Malcolm, mm hmmm um. Last spot, Um,
Speaker 1: Jesus Saw Saw Yeah, I gotta know you gotta read you.
Speaker 1: Uh you plus four on the black top? You and
Speaker 1: four other people not in the league, but outside pickup game,
Speaker 1: not in the league, the league. They could be in
Speaker 1: the league. I'm saying you're not. You're playing outside outdoors
Speaker 1: on a black top. Jordan's he's tough man. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with him because my boy, h king Yeah, wors
Speaker 1: that's three. Uh huh, come on, man, yeah, it's tough man. Jordan.
Speaker 1: Hold on, Jordan, I think you're on the black top,
Speaker 1: so I ain't no foul calling, Oh, ain't no foul
Speaker 1: call you on the black top. Jordan said, oh, Dennis
Speaker 1: Den and uh, I'm gonna go with somebody I ain't
Speaker 1: here in a long time. I'm gonna just pick him
Speaker 1: because I want to pick him. And he was like
Speaker 1: a small shock, but played the two guard the microwave. Yes,
Speaker 1: we're on the black top. It's o man. You put
Speaker 1: him in the game. That's twin points points. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: some sides, all right, last but not least. If you
Speaker 1: could see anyone on our show, who would it be?
Speaker 1: But before you answer that question, you have to help
Speaker 1: us get your answer on our show. Oh that's a
Speaker 1: tough one. I don't know all the people y'all. Head.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, nice, we overdo the day I took
Speaker 1: my shot that he called me as well, great guy man.
Speaker 1: He gave me a lot of good guys. We need.
Speaker 1: We need to Hall of Fame, really do so. He's
Speaker 1: so philanthropic, man, he gives so much. Man. We used
Speaker 1: to pray before games in Houston. We pray before games
Speaker 1: and then yeah, so come give us some of your
Speaker 1: He gave me some keys. He gave me some good keys.
Speaker 1: YEA fairy soul spoken brother and I'll fight in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1: I love it my mood. We appreciate your time. We
Speaker 1: got some merch for you right here. Trust me, he
Speaker 1: liked merch. Now do you work out merch like I'm
Speaker 1: where can you get at all the smoke bat Store?
Speaker 1: You can have it as well. Make sure you guys
Speaker 1: check out stand the mock mood ab duro story only
Speaker 1: on Showtime. We got a chance to watch it last night. Man.
Speaker 1: Very insightful, very emotion emotional roller coaster. Make sure you
Speaker 1: guys check that out Man beautifully done. Um hopefully win awards.
Speaker 1: Well that's a wrap, man mood, I'd rove all the smoke.
Speaker 1: You can catch us on Showtime, Basketball, YouTube and the
Speaker 1: Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next time.