WEBVTT - Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.360 Hey, everybody, it's me Josh and for this week's select 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.160 and an honor of Black History Month, I've chosen our 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.280 twenty sixteen episode on the Negro Leagues. It's a story 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:12.760 that follows an arc a lot like another episode we 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.000 did on the Harlem Globetrotters, where we have a group 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.040 of people who were discriminated against, so they went off 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.400 and formed their own league, their own thing, showed their greatness, 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.279 and then were eventually co opted, which left some of 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.600 the people who'd help build what they had out in 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.200 the cold. And it's also a story though, of great 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.040 feats of athleticism and social heroics as well. And even 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.280 if you're not into baseball, I guarantee you like this episode, 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.040 so enjoy. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:49.480 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.160 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:59.440 Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry and there's the. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.000 Stuff you should No Sportsy addition. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.360 Sportsy, I think really we should err on just the 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:06.160 side of history. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.800 Well. I even put a note in here if you 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.959 don't like sports, listen to this one anyway. Yeah, because 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.039 this is about much more than baseball. Yeah, this is 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.120 about history and about. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.200 Overcoming adversity. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.119 Yeah, like it's a very interesting story because and we'll 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.840 get into this, but I think people tend to think 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.119 of the negro leagues, and that's what this is about, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.440 the baseball negro leagues, which is what they were called. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.560 We don't use that word anymore, no, but you call 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.440 this that because that's what it was, right. You tend 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.280 to think of it in a certain way, which is 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.640 only Yeah, well baseball was segregated and they couldn't play 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.600 in the white leagues, and that's awful, which it is 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.040 and was, But there's another side to it too. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:54.960 Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point where. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.320 These men and these business owners were empowered and the 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.919 players and yeah, and it's yeah, that's just a tease. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.400 I just wanted to whet their appetite word in my appetite. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:07.800 I'm sitting here, like, keep going. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:09.040 Yeah. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.440 So I think we should start with a little bit 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.840 of history, right, So just a brief primer of American history. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:17.040 We'll start with slavery. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:18.560 It's a good place to start. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:24.079 The transit Atlantic slave trade. Yeah, built this country. And frankly, 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.000 I'm just gonna come out and say, I think some 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:30.000 of the major issues that the United States faces today 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:40.079 comes from a lack of accountability for slavery. Really, it's 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.400 contributing to a lot of the inequality and a lot 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.280 of the strife that we still face today and have 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.920 faced over the decades. So you've got slavery, and then 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.799 you had the end of slavery. You had the Emancipation Proclamation, 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:53.679 which a lot of people say, oh, well, that was great. 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.960 Abraham Lincoln spoke some magic words and freed the slaves 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:57.919 and everything was great. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.280 Yeah, it was just perfectly equal after that. 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:05.079 Right, No, no, So it took the Union to win 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:11.720 the Civil War to begin to enforce the Emancipation Proclamation 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.400 in the South and in Texas. Apparently Texas were among 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.440 the last holdouts, and there was slavery going on in 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.840 Texas like years after the Civil War was over. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:21.880 Oh yeah, yeah. 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.040 They were just like, we're just not going to pay 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.679 attention to that. Sure, So the Civil Wars fought. The 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.760 part of the Union victory of the Civil War was 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.200 coming into the South and saying like, all you Confederates, 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.880 you guys are out of power. And as a matter 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.000 of fact, this power vacuum is perfectly willing to be 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.880 filled by freed blacks. So go ahead, run for office, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.840 become judges, like, become part of the reconstruction power. And 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.200 that lasted for a very very short time. The white 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.440 Southern former power base who were leading the Confederacy, and 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.360 even once who weren't necessarily part of the actual Confederate 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.280 government or even the Confederate army, but just the people 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.800 like in your town who used to own the sawmill 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.040 or whatever. That guy came back in power within a 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.920 couple of years, and the white Southerners who'd been supplanted, 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.400 when they came back into power, they remembered the black 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.360 people who had tried to take their positions, and so 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.839 it got ugly. Yeah, and so rather than having actual 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:30.960 legal slavery, it came in other different, horrible, pernicious forms 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.760 which came to be called post reconstruction the Jim Crow South. 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.360 Yeah, and boy, we need to do one. I've had 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.719 it on my list for a while, on Jim Crow period. 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.560 How about this? First of all, where'd you get this 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.200 other good, really good article. 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.000 It's on the Major League Baseball website. 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:53.080 It in the prehistory section of that one. And this 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.600 is just to show you the tone of things in 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.200 eighteen fifty seven. That was a Supreme Court chief justice. Yeah, 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.599 Roger Tanny, Who it's funny that the way this writer 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.839 put it, he said he's campaigning hard for a spot 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.160 in the American Scum Hall of Fame. Like that's pretty funny. Yeah. 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.360 In his official writing, this is the Chief Justice of 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:18.000 the Supreme Court said negroes were so far inferior to 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.520 whites that they had no rights which a white man 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.520 was bound to respect. This is the Chief Justice of 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:25.359 the Supreme Court. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:25.919 Yeah. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.400 I think I need to say that like four more times. Yeah, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:29.360 before it sinks in. 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.320 That was two or three. 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.000 This is what was going on despite the Emancipation Proclamation, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.239 despite the Fourteenth Amendment. 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.320 Well that was actually before it was before that was 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.680 during the slavey, the time of slavery. Yeah yeah, yeah, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:42.800 just to excuse that guy. 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:47.440 But after after that, despite the amendments to the Constitution, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.600 despite all of that, it took to the nineteen sixties 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.200 to even begin the slightest bit of real progress. 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:57.880 Yeah, that's true. 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.680 Not quite true, because the history is littered with people 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.440 who've made advancements. They I don't want to knock. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.800 That, but in a systemic manner. Yeah, totally, you're right, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.240 It wasn't until the sixties. 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.640 But part of the problem too was and this is 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:16.240 a valid point other courts had said, like those is justice. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.400 Henry Billings Brown said legislation is powerless to eradicate racial 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:27.279 instincts or to abolish distinctions based upon physical differences. Basically, 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.919 what he's saying is like, we can create laws, but 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.800 you're not going to change public's mind by creating laws, 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.400 and you can't like abolish present prejudice. 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.279 Right, And so if white people think that black people 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.279 are inferior to them, who are we the government to 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:43.240 say otherwise? 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.919 Yeah, to try maybe and legislate our way out of it, even. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.320 Right, So, in I think eighteen ninety six, there was 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.720 a court case called Plusy versus Ferguson. Yeah, And in 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.919 Plusy versus Ferguson, the Supreme Court upheld and legitimized and 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:03.960 actually made real the segregation that had already been going 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.680 on ever since reconstruction, or ever since the end of reconstruction, 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:13.640 the beginning of Jim Crow laws. Right, So, the United 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.840 States was officially segregated in eighteen ninety six, but baseball 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:23.480 had actually segregated years before that, but not as far 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.320 back as people think, And a lot of people think 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:31.480 that baseball had always been segregated up until nineteen forty six. Yeah, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.440 I think Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.040 I think ninety nine percent of people think that Jackie 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.760 Robinson was the first black American to play. 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.480 Baseball, including me until yesterday when we started researching. Oh 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:43.360 did you know this already? 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.840 Yeah? I mean I'm a big baseball fan and a 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.560 bit of a student of its history, so I knew. Okay, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:54.280 So tell him, Chuck, Well, who the guys were specifically? 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.400 Well, yeah, so in eighteen sixty seven, I think two 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.920 years after the Civil War, there was already Remember Abner 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.800 double Day created baseball in what eighteen thirty nine? Oh, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.200 in like thirteen hundred and that's but that's a legitimate story, right, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.320 that's not like he really did. He was the inventor 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.600 of the baseball, and it did happen in Cooperstown, New 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:13.200 York and all. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.680 That, right, Yeah, Okay, I don't know, but was he 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:16.320 in Cooperstown? 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:16.720 I believe? 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:17.840 So, Okay, well that makes sense. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.920 So within just a couple of decades, there was the 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.160 National Association of Baseball Players. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.680 They were the league, right, yeah, I mean not within 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.080 a couple of decades, a couple of years. Oh really, yeah, 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.360 like literally two years after the end of the Civil War. 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:38.559 That was an African American team called I actually don't 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:39.719 know what their name was, but they were out of 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.480 Philadelphia and they said, we want to join your league, 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.280 which was the National Association of Baseball Players at the time. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.280 And they were rejected as a team of course at 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.559 the time. And but that didn't mean that there were 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.720 not players individually. 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.559 Right, that's a huge caveat. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.480 Yeah, it was a little bit later in eighteen eighty 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.640 six five, and not for too long. We had two brothers, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:10.080 Moses fleetwood Walker and well day Walker and most did 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.920 they play for the Toledo Bluestock That's. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:19.120 Right, baby, my hometown integrated baseball team in the eighteen eighties. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.679 You were totally right. Moses was he was older. He 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.679 played forty two games for the team. Well, they only 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.559 came along and played in six games. Moses hit to 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.640 sixty three that season. And they were the son of 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:37.480 a physician, like the first black physician in Toledo, nice 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:42.600 and went to college played baseball at Oberlin in Michigan, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.640 so I know the Wolverines. I didn't know Oberlin even 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:48.280 had sports. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.520 Well, this is the nineteenth century. I think they phased 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:53.000 him out in. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.200 Favor of debate, acoustic guitars and debate. I know a 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.240 lot of people that went to Oberlin. Weirdly, really, my 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.000 good friend Robert Shahati from Boston that you met that 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.959 came to our show. Lucy Wainwright went to Oberlin. 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:07.640 Didn't know that. 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.880 David Reese really went to Oberlin. And I feel like 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.880 a couple of other people. Yeah, it's got a nice reputation. Yeah, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.319 great name too, Oberlin Oberlin. It sounds ivy league. 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:20.920 Yeah, Oberlin, the. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:26.520 Sound equality Oberlin sounds ivy leaguash right, that's on their 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.319 t shirts. Although we do need to give a shout out. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.760 There was one guy in eighteen seventy nine, William Edward White, 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.360 who substituted and played one game. Oh yeah, who was 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.560 officially and this is a little murky history wise, because 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.079 we don't know much about him or how it happened, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.600 but supposedly he played one game as a professional baseball 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:47.560 player as a black man. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:48.199 Is that right? 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.960 Yeah? And this is when eighteen seventy nine. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.000 Okay, so the Walker brothers are playing for Toledo in 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.280 eighteen eighty six, right, correct, And actually this article on 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.800 how Stuff Works gets it wrong, says that they just 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.040 played for the team for one year before the team 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.560 went under. That's not the case. As a matter of fact, 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.480 Moses Walker, they may have only played together on the 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.640 team for that one year. Moses Walker had played for 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:18.079 years before them. Yeah, And actually Moses Walker and there 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.720 were several other players at the time in eighteen eighty 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.080 six and eighty seven, there were at least four black 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.880 players and the miners, but the Walker brothers were playing 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.280 for Toledo, which was a major league team. Right, But 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.920 the presence of Moses Walker actually brought to the four 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:39.000 this kind of simmering resentment and kind of the big 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.160 elephant in the room. There's a black guy on your team. 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.959 What are you guys doing? And so Toledo actually went 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.120 to go play the White Sox in Chicago, and the 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:53.520 White Sox had this like their great player of that 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.720 season I think in eighteen eighty four, who was cap Anson. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.400 Great nicknames back then son. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.160 And said he said some horrible things and ultimately was 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.280 like I'm not playing if that man's on the field, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.640 And Moses Walker was actually injured and still was like, oh, well, 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.640 I'm definitely going on the field today anyway. So he 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.240 dressed out and I'm not sure if he actually played 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.400 in the game, but he was like part of the team, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.200 and cap Anson was not indulged. Toledo was like, we're 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.160 not taking our guy out. He's one of our players. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.640 So cap Anson can go suck an egg, and camp 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:30.640 Anton went and sucked an egg. He was really mad. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.920 But the issue that day, that dispute at Camiski Field 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.200 brought to the four that the concept of integration and 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:46.960 ultimately segregation among Major League Baseball teams, and it actually 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.000 increased the pressure among owners and managers to get rid 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.760 of the black players, not just in the majors, but 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:54.520 in the minors. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.400 Yeah, that was another player too. I read another story 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.240 about and we'll get to Roy Campanella. He was he 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.680 was better than Jackie Robinson at the time, a catcher 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.840 who was just amazing Hall of Famer, and there was 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.679 a white pitcher. It was like, you know, he was 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.720 a great catcher, but I didn't want to play with him, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.000 so I would when I pitched to him, I would 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.120 just ignore his signs and through whatever I want, like, 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:25.720 to his own detriment and to the team's detriment. He 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.679 he just wouldn't take the signs. What are putts, I know, 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.640 career sabotage essentially. Yeah. I don't think he lasted long either. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.000 And Campanella's in the Hall of Fame, so he. 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.319 Can do it right. The other guy who knows. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.720 I want to give these names all out though, the 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.360 four black Men and the miners in eighteen sixty six. 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.200 Besides Moses Walker, we had Bud Fowler, Frank Grant, and 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.280 George Stovey, And as far as I'm concerned, all these 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:57.040 dudes are American heroes. So all of a sudden they 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.200 succumbed to pressure in eighteen ninety, after hate mail and 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.440 death threats to the coaches and managers and umpires and 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.439 you know, basically everybody, the players themselves, and they said, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.760 you know what, We're going to shut it down officially 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.199 in eighteen ninety, we can no longer have any black 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:17.040 men in our league. 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.320 So here's the thing. They never officially did that. They 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.560 had the minor league banned black players. Yeah, that way 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.760 into the Major suro the miners. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.040 Well, and it was never on the rule books either. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:32.520 It was it was an unofficial, non gentlemen's agreement because 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.400 which actually when it was broken, it wasn't like a 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.640 rule was broken. It was just an unwritten rule. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.360 Right exactly, which paved the way for branch Ricky to 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.880 break that unbroken rule without actually breaking a rule. Yes, yeah, 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.480 good point, Chuck, you want to take a break, Yeah, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:15:13.600 let's do it. Stoftly jaws definitely, childs of each ski 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.560 all right, man, So eighteen ninety, it's now there are 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:20.280 there are no. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.240 Black players resegregated. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.840 In Major League baseball or minor league baseball in America, right, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.000 that's right. That actually paved the way for one of 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.800 the great unsung chapters in baseball history, which was the 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.280 creation of the Negro leagues. 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.360 Yeah. And in a true show of American spirit and 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:45.720 determination and just love of the game. Uh, these these 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.920 men got together, they formed their own teams, and they 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:50.239 did what's called barnstorming. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:51.440 Yeah, it's just pretty awesome. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.480 And they would load up in cars on a bus 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.600 and they would go from town to town and take 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.240 their show on the road, and they would get a 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.480 game up wherever they could and wherever people would pay 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.200 a couple of pennies to come watch a baseball game. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.320 They were playing white players in these barnstorming games, yeah, 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.280 or black players or Latino players. 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.120 Yeah. Yeah, because that's a definite overlook segment of the 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.200 early baseball history. Or Latino players, Oh totally. And one 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.200 of the cool things about the Negro leagues is they 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.440 were integrated. They had Latino teams like the Cuban Kings 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:23.840 out of New York I believe. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.440 Yep, and one white guy. All right, So barnstorming's going on. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:28.400 Like I said, they would roll into town, they would 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.120 play whatever teams they could play, and it started to 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.720 gain some momentum, Like people started to follow these players. Yeah, 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.320 and they actually got fans. And there was a former 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:43.040 player named Andrew Rube Foster who owned one of those teams, 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.000 and he said, you know what, I think we need 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.800 our own league. Yeah, they won't let us in their league. 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.200 Let's start our own because besides the fact that people 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.440 want it, there's money to be made here. 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.160 Yeah. And as a matter of fact, so this barnstorming thing, 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.800 I want to talk a little more about that, right. Yeah, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.800 one of the reasons barnstorming came about was to make 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.920 ends meet, but it was also because these teams had 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.719 to figure out a way to put on games as 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.760 cheaply as possible. All of the stadiums at the time 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.679 were owned by whites, and the whites apparently were not 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.879 very friendly to the idea of black teams playing in 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.840 their fields. So if it were just like black teams 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.800 playing one another, the white owners of the fields would 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.240 just charge an exorbitant amount. So these guys were going 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.439 basically anywhere they could find a place that would stand 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.560 still long enough for them to play a baseball game on. 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.600 That's what they would play. And they played like three 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.800 games a day every day, and they all traveled together 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.320 and hung out with one another and spent a lot 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.160 of time together. So like that, the Negro leagues came 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:55.720 out of this kind of camaraderie of barnstorming together, which 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:56.520 is pretty awesome. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:57.400 It's very cool. 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.920 So, yeah, this guy, Rube Foster, he owned the Chicago 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:06.080 American Giants, and confusingly, there was also another Negro team 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.200 called the Chicago Giants. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:09.320 Into Saint Louis Giants. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.600 Yeah yeah, but versus Chicago. Yeah, but if it was 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.040 Chicago versus Chicago. Well, which one of the Giants? Well, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.520 which one the American Giants? Okay, now I understand not 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.560 just the Giants, but Rube Foster was like this, this 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:29.120 booster of boundless enthusiasm. This guy literally put together the 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:34.360 first real Negro league. Yeah, and when he was basically 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.800 removed from it, the whole thing fell apart. That's how 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.280 much of a driver this guy was. 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:40.640 Yeah, he's in the Hall of Fame too. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.240 Yeah, he was a catcher, I think. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.520 Oh, I don't even think he was in as a player, 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.000 but he was really Yeah, I think just for his achievement, 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.439 I gotcha, although it may have been both, I don't know. 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.920 But in nineteen twenty he said, all right, here's what 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.560 we'll do. Let me get these seven team owners of 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.919 the Midwestern League that are doing these you know, bar 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.639 and storming traveling shows. Basically, let's get together in Kansas 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.360 City seven all black teams. In addition to those two 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.600 Chicago Giants, we have the Cuban Stars, the Dayton Marcos, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.840 the Indianapolis Abcs, and the very famous Kansas City Monarchs 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.480 and Saint Louis Giants all and this is the really 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.240 like great thing about the story, All of these teams 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.480 except for the Monarchs, were black owned teams. 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:32.359 Right, So, not only do you have black players careers developing, yeah, 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.359 you have like black enterprise developing in a time when 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.879 there were very few avenues of opportunity for black people 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.320 to advance in business. Yeah, and in a sense where 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.840 they own the business. This is a really good way 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:47.199 to do it. 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.000 Yeah. And not only that, like the Major League Baseball 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:55.280 site points out, like this was like it should be 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.520 embraced in some ways because this at a time was 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.200 the only one of the only ways that minorities could 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.920 fully excel to their fullest potential. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.840 Right you know. Yeah, And that was a point of 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.880 that article that I thought was pretty cool, is that 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.520 one of the things they lamented about the segregation of 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:18.399 baseball during this time is that we'll never know how 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.240 Babe Ruth would have stood up against Satchel Page pitching 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.680 to them because they never got to play each other. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.960 So the truly great players are truly great at during 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.879 this time within their own skin color. Yeah, you know, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.680 you can't say they were the greatest in baseball because 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.960 they were too legitimate parallel leagues going on at the time. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.560 And yeah, they played each other sometimes, but if you 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.400 wanted to sit down and put stats against stats, you'd 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:46.520 be very hard pressed to do. 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:53.320 That, right, Sure, Taychab, Babe Ruth Christy Mathison, Like we 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.200 know they were good, Like we're not knocking their talent, 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.439 but who knows what it would have been like in 0:20:58.480 --> 0:20:59.640 a truly integrated league. 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.840 Yeah, And actually it's funny you bring up Ty Cobb 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:03.480 because I was like, oh, yeah, type Cobb was a 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.920 huge racist. I wonder what he thought about the Negro leagues. 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.600 And I looked it up and I found an article 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.119 from a guy who argues that Ty Cobb was not 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.320 the horrible racist that he's made out to be these days. 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:16.200 Written by Jimmy Cobb. 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.680 There he found, well, he actually did cite his son, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:21.280 and I think his son's name. 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:23.280 Might be jim Really yeah, oh wow. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.640 But the guy found an article from maybe the fifties 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.760 or something, nineteen fifty two where Ty Cobb is quoted 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:36.960 at length coming out in favor of integration in Aralia baseball, Yeah, 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.080 saying like, of course these guys should play as long 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.520 as you know, they conduct themselves like professional baseball players, 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.320 Like why would they not be able to play. I'm 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:46.479 totally in favor of it. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.639 Interesting, like, did Ty Cobb say this? I think that 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:54.320