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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josh and for this week's select

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Speaker 1: and an honor of Black History Month, I've chosen our

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen episode on the Negro Leagues. It's a story

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Speaker 1: that follows an arc a lot like another episode we

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Speaker 1: did on the Harlem Globetrotters, where we have a group

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Speaker 1: of people who were discriminated against, so they went off

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Speaker 1: and formed their own league, their own thing, showed their greatness,

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Speaker 1: and then were eventually co opted, which left some of

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Speaker 1: the people who'd help build what they had out in

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Speaker 1: the cold. And it's also a story though, of great

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Speaker 1: feats of athleticism and social heroics as well. And even

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Speaker 1: if you're not into baseball, I guarantee you like this episode,

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Speaker 1: so enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with

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Speaker 1: Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry and there's the.

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Speaker 2: Stuff you should No Sportsy addition.

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Speaker 1: Sportsy, I think really we should err on just the

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Speaker 1: side of history.

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Speaker 2: Well. I even put a note in here if you

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Speaker 2: don't like sports, listen to this one anyway. Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: this is about much more than baseball. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: about history and about.

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Speaker 1: Overcoming adversity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's a very interesting story because and we'll

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Speaker 2: get into this, but I think people tend to think

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Speaker 2: of the negro leagues, and that's what this is about,

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Speaker 2: the baseball negro leagues, which is what they were called.

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Speaker 2: We don't use that word anymore, no, but you call

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Speaker 2: this that because that's what it was, right. You tend

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Speaker 2: to think of it in a certain way, which is

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Speaker 2: only Yeah, well baseball was segregated and they couldn't play

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Speaker 2: in the white leagues, and that's awful, which it is

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Speaker 2: and was, But there's another side to it too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point where.

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Speaker 2: These men and these business owners were empowered and the

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Speaker 2: players and yeah, and it's yeah, that's just a tease.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to whet their appetite word in my appetite.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting here, like, keep going.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I think we should start with a little bit

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Speaker 1: of history, right, So just a brief primer of American history.

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Speaker 1: We'll start with slavery.

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Speaker 2: It's a good place to start.

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Speaker 1: The transit Atlantic slave trade. Yeah, built this country. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna come out and say, I think some

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Speaker 1: of the major issues that the United States faces today

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Speaker 1: comes from a lack of accountability for slavery. Really, it's

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Speaker 1: contributing to a lot of the inequality and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the strife that we still face today and have

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Speaker 1: faced over the decades. So you've got slavery, and then

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Speaker 1: you had the end of slavery. You had the Emancipation Proclamation,

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Speaker 1: which a lot of people say, oh, well, that was great.

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Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln spoke some magic words and freed the slaves

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Speaker 1: and everything was great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just perfectly equal after that.

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Speaker 1: Right, No, no, So it took the Union to win

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Speaker 1: the Civil War to begin to enforce the Emancipation Proclamation

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Speaker 1: in the South and in Texas. Apparently Texas were among

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Speaker 1: the last holdouts, and there was slavery going on in

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Speaker 1: Texas like years after the Civil War was over.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: They were just like, we're just not going to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to that. Sure, So the Civil Wars fought. The

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Speaker 1: part of the Union victory of the Civil War was

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Speaker 1: coming into the South and saying like, all you Confederates,

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Speaker 1: you guys are out of power. And as a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, this power vacuum is perfectly willing to be

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Speaker 1: filled by freed blacks. So go ahead, run for office,

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Speaker 1: become judges, like, become part of the reconstruction power. And

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Speaker 1: that lasted for a very very short time. The white

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Speaker 1: Southern former power base who were leading the Confederacy, and

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Speaker 1: even once who weren't necessarily part of the actual Confederate

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Speaker 1: government or even the Confederate army, but just the people

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Speaker 1: like in your town who used to own the sawmill

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Speaker 1: or whatever. That guy came back in power within a

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Speaker 1: couple of years, and the white Southerners who'd been supplanted,

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Speaker 1: when they came back into power, they remembered the black

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Speaker 1: people who had tried to take their positions, and so

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Speaker 1: it got ugly. Yeah, and so rather than having actual

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Speaker 1: legal slavery, it came in other different, horrible, pernicious forms

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Speaker 1: which came to be called post reconstruction the Jim Crow South.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and boy, we need to do one. I've had

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Speaker 2: it on my list for a while, on Jim Crow period.

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Speaker 2: How about this? First of all, where'd you get this

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Speaker 2: other good, really good article.

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Speaker 1: It's on the Major League Baseball website.

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Speaker 2: It in the prehistory section of that one. And this

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Speaker 2: is just to show you the tone of things in

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Speaker 2: eighteen fifty seven. That was a Supreme Court chief justice. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Roger Tanny, Who it's funny that the way this writer

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Speaker 2: put it, he said he's campaigning hard for a spot

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Speaker 2: in the American Scum Hall of Fame. Like that's pretty funny. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In his official writing, this is the Chief Justice of

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court said negroes were so far inferior to

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Speaker 2: whites that they had no rights which a white man

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Speaker 2: was bound to respect. This is the Chief Justice of

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think I need to say that like four more times. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: before it sinks in.

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Speaker 1: That was two or three.

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Speaker 2: This is what was going on despite the Emancipation Proclamation,

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Speaker 2: despite the Fourteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 1: Well that was actually before it was before that was

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Speaker 1: during the slavey, the time of slavery. Yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just to excuse that guy.

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Speaker 2: But after after that, despite the amendments to the Constitution,

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Speaker 2: despite all of that, it took to the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 2: to even begin the slightest bit of real progress.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: Not quite true, because the history is littered with people

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Speaker 2: who've made advancements. They I don't want to knock.

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Speaker 1: That, but in a systemic manner. Yeah, totally, you're right,

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until the sixties.

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Speaker 2: But part of the problem too was and this is

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Speaker 2: a valid point other courts had said, like those is justice.

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Speaker 2: Henry Billings Brown said legislation is powerless to eradicate racial

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Speaker 2: instincts or to abolish distinctions based upon physical differences. Basically,

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Speaker 2: what he's saying is like, we can create laws, but

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Speaker 2: you're not going to change public's mind by creating laws,

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Speaker 2: and you can't like abolish present prejudice.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so if white people think that black people

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Speaker 1: are inferior to them, who are we the government to

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Speaker 1: say otherwise?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to try maybe and legislate our way out of it, even.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, in I think eighteen ninety six, there was

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Speaker 1: a court case called Plusy versus Ferguson. Yeah, And in

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Speaker 1: Plusy versus Ferguson, the Supreme Court upheld and legitimized and

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Speaker 1: actually made real the segregation that had already been going

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Speaker 1: on ever since reconstruction, or ever since the end of reconstruction,

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Speaker 1: the beginning of Jim Crow laws. Right, So, the United

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Speaker 1: States was officially segregated in eighteen ninety six, but baseball

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Speaker 1: had actually segregated years before that, but not as far

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Speaker 1: back as people think, And a lot of people think

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Speaker 1: that baseball had always been segregated up until nineteen forty six. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier.

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Speaker 2: I think ninety nine percent of people think that Jackie

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Speaker 2: Robinson was the first black American to play.

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Speaker 1: Baseball, including me until yesterday when we started researching. Oh

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Speaker 1: did you know this already?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I'm a big baseball fan and a

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Speaker 2: bit of a student of its history, so I knew. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So tell him, Chuck, Well, who the guys were specifically?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so in eighteen sixty seven, I think two

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Speaker 1: years after the Civil War, there was already Remember Abner

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Speaker 1: double Day created baseball in what eighteen thirty nine? Oh,

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Speaker 1: in like thirteen hundred and that's but that's a legitimate story, right,

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Speaker 1: that's not like he really did. He was the inventor

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Speaker 1: of the baseball, and it did happen in Cooperstown, New

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Speaker 1: York and all.

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Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah, Okay, I don't know, but was he

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Speaker 2: in Cooperstown?

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Speaker 1: I believe?

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Speaker 2: So, Okay, well that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So within just a couple of decades, there was the

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Speaker 1: National Association of Baseball Players.

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Speaker 2: They were the league, right, yeah, I mean not within

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Speaker 2: a couple of decades, a couple of years. Oh really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like literally two years after the end of the Civil War.

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Speaker 2: That was an African American team called I actually don't

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Speaker 2: know what their name was, but they were out of

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia and they said, we want to join your league,

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Speaker 2: which was the National Association of Baseball Players at the time.

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Speaker 2: And they were rejected as a team of course at

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Speaker 2: the time. And but that didn't mean that there were

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Speaker 2: not players individually.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's a huge caveat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a little bit later in eighteen eighty

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Speaker 2: six five, and not for too long. We had two brothers,

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Speaker 2: Moses fleetwood Walker and well day Walker and most did

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Speaker 2: they play for the Toledo Bluestock That's.

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Speaker 1: Right, baby, my hometown integrated baseball team in the eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: You were totally right. Moses was he was older. He

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Speaker 2: played forty two games for the team. Well, they only

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Speaker 2: came along and played in six games. Moses hit to

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Speaker 2: sixty three that season. And they were the son of

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Speaker 2: a physician, like the first black physician in Toledo, nice

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Speaker 2: and went to college played baseball at Oberlin in Michigan,

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Speaker 2: so I know the Wolverines. I didn't know Oberlin even

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Speaker 2: had sports.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the nineteenth century. I think they phased

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Speaker 1: him out in.

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Speaker 2: Favor of debate, acoustic guitars and debate. I know a

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Speaker 2: lot of people that went to Oberlin. Weirdly, really, my

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Speaker 2: good friend Robert Shahati from Boston that you met that

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Speaker 2: came to our show. Lucy Wainwright went to Oberlin.

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Speaker 1: Didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: David Reese really went to Oberlin. And I feel like

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Speaker 2: a couple of other people. Yeah, it's got a nice reputation. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: great name too, Oberlin Oberlin. It sounds ivy league.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oberlin, the.

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Speaker 2: Sound equality Oberlin sounds ivy leaguash right, that's on their

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Speaker 2: t shirts. Although we do need to give a shout out.

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Speaker 2: There was one guy in eighteen seventy nine, William Edward White,

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Speaker 2: who substituted and played one game. Oh yeah, who was

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Speaker 2: officially and this is a little murky history wise, because

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Speaker 2: we don't know much about him or how it happened,

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Speaker 2: but supposedly he played one game as a professional baseball

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Speaker 2: player as a black man.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And this is when eighteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the Walker brothers are playing for Toledo in

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six, right, correct, And actually this article on

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works gets it wrong, says that they just

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Speaker 1: played for the team for one year before the team

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Speaker 1: went under. That's not the case. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: Moses Walker, they may have only played together on the

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Speaker 1: team for that one year. Moses Walker had played for

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Speaker 1: years before them. Yeah, And actually Moses Walker and there

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Speaker 1: were several other players at the time in eighteen eighty

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Speaker 1: six and eighty seven, there were at least four black

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Speaker 1: players and the miners, but the Walker brothers were playing

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Speaker 1: for Toledo, which was a major league team. Right, But

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Speaker 1: the presence of Moses Walker actually brought to the four

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Speaker 1: this kind of simmering resentment and kind of the big

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Speaker 1: elephant in the room. There's a black guy on your team.

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Speaker 1: What are you guys doing? And so Toledo actually went

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Speaker 1: to go play the White Sox in Chicago, and the

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Speaker 1: White Sox had this like their great player of that

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Speaker 1: season I think in eighteen eighty four, who was cap Anson.

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Speaker 2: Great nicknames back then son.

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Speaker 1: And said he said some horrible things and ultimately was

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Speaker 1: like I'm not playing if that man's on the field,

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Speaker 1: And Moses Walker was actually injured and still was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely going on the field today anyway. So he

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Speaker 1: dressed out and I'm not sure if he actually played

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Speaker 1: in the game, but he was like part of the team,

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Speaker 1: and cap Anson was not indulged. Toledo was like, we're

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Speaker 1: not taking our guy out. He's one of our players.

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Speaker 1: So cap Anson can go suck an egg, and camp

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Speaker 1: Anton went and sucked an egg. He was really mad.

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Speaker 1: But the issue that day, that dispute at Camiski Field

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Speaker 1: brought to the four that the concept of integration and

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Speaker 1: ultimately segregation among Major League Baseball teams, and it actually

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Speaker 1: increased the pressure among owners and managers to get rid

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Speaker 1: of the black players, not just in the majors, but

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Speaker 1: in the minors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another player too. I read another story

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Speaker 2: about and we'll get to Roy Campanella. He was he

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Speaker 2: was better than Jackie Robinson at the time, a catcher

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Speaker 2: who was just amazing Hall of Famer, and there was

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Speaker 2: a white pitcher. It was like, you know, he was

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Speaker 2: a great catcher, but I didn't want to play with him,

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Speaker 2: so I would when I pitched to him, I would

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Speaker 2: just ignore his signs and through whatever I want, like,

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Speaker 2: to his own detriment and to the team's detriment. He

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Speaker 2: he just wouldn't take the signs. What are putts, I know,

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Speaker 2: career sabotage essentially. Yeah. I don't think he lasted long either.

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Speaker 2: And Campanella's in the Hall of Fame, so he.

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Speaker 1: Can do it right. The other guy who knows.

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Speaker 2: I want to give these names all out though, the

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Speaker 2: four black Men and the miners in eighteen sixty six.

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Speaker 2: Besides Moses Walker, we had Bud Fowler, Frank Grant, and

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Speaker 2: George Stovey, And as far as I'm concerned, all these

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Speaker 2: dudes are American heroes. So all of a sudden they

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Speaker 2: succumbed to pressure in eighteen ninety, after hate mail and

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Speaker 2: death threats to the coaches and managers and umpires and

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Speaker 2: you know, basically everybody, the players themselves, and they said,

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Speaker 2: you know what, We're going to shut it down officially

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Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety, we can no longer have any black

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Speaker 2: men in our league.

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Speaker 1: So here's the thing. They never officially did that. They

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Speaker 1: had the minor league banned black players. Yeah, that way

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Speaker 1: into the Major suro the miners.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it was never on the rule books either.

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Speaker 2: It was it was an unofficial, non gentlemen's agreement because

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Speaker 2: which actually when it was broken, it wasn't like a

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Speaker 2: rule was broken. It was just an unwritten rule.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly, which paved the way for branch Ricky to

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Speaker 1: break that unbroken rule without actually breaking a rule. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good point, Chuck, you want to take a break, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's do it. Stoftly jaws definitely, childs of each ski

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Speaker 1: all right, man, So eighteen ninety, it's now there are

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Speaker 1: there are no.

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Speaker 2: Black players resegregated.

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Speaker 1: In Major League baseball or minor league baseball in America, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. That actually paved the way for one of

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Speaker 1: the great unsung chapters in baseball history, which was the

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Speaker 1: creation of the Negro leagues.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And in a true show of American spirit and

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Speaker 2: determination and just love of the game. Uh, these these

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Speaker 2: men got together, they formed their own teams, and they

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Speaker 2: did what's called barnstorming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: And they would load up in cars on a bus

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Speaker 2: and they would go from town to town and take

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Speaker 2: their show on the road, and they would get a

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Speaker 2: game up wherever they could and wherever people would pay

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Speaker 2: a couple of pennies to come watch a baseball game.

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Speaker 2: They were playing white players in these barnstorming games, yeah,

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Speaker 2: or black players or Latino players.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because that's a definite overlook segment of the

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Speaker 1: early baseball history. Or Latino players, Oh totally. And one

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Speaker 1: of the cool things about the Negro leagues is they

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Speaker 1: were integrated. They had Latino teams like the Cuban Kings

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Speaker 1: out of New York I believe.

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Speaker 2: Yep, and one white guy. All right, So barnstorming's going on.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, they would roll into town, they would

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Speaker 2: play whatever teams they could play, and it started to

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Speaker 2: gain some momentum, Like people started to follow these players. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they actually got fans. And there was a former

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Speaker 2: player named Andrew Rube Foster who owned one of those teams,

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Speaker 2: and he said, you know what, I think we need

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Speaker 2: our own league. Yeah, they won't let us in their league.

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Speaker 2: Let's start our own because besides the fact that people

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Speaker 2: want it, there's money to be made here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And as a matter of fact, so this barnstorming thing,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little more about that, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons barnstorming came about was to make

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Speaker 1: ends meet, but it was also because these teams had

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Speaker 1: to figure out a way to put on games as

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Speaker 1: cheaply as possible. All of the stadiums at the time

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Speaker 1: were owned by whites, and the whites apparently were not

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Speaker 1: very friendly to the idea of black teams playing in

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Speaker 1: their fields. So if it were just like black teams

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Speaker 1: playing one another, the white owners of the fields would

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Speaker 1: just charge an exorbitant amount. So these guys were going

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Speaker 1: basically anywhere they could find a place that would stand

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Speaker 1: still long enough for them to play a baseball game on.

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Speaker 1: That's what they would play. And they played like three

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Speaker 1: games a day every day, and they all traveled together

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Speaker 1: and hung out with one another and spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time together. So like that, the Negro leagues came

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Speaker 1: out of this kind of camaraderie of barnstorming together, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: It's very cool.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, this guy, Rube Foster, he owned the Chicago

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Speaker 1: American Giants, and confusingly, there was also another Negro team

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Speaker 1: called the Chicago Giants.

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Speaker 2: Into Saint Louis Giants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but versus Chicago. Yeah, but if it was

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Speaker 1: Chicago versus Chicago. Well, which one of the Giants? Well,

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Speaker 1: which one the American Giants? Okay, now I understand not

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Speaker 1: just the Giants, but Rube Foster was like this, this

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Speaker 1: booster of boundless enthusiasm. This guy literally put together the

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Speaker 1: first real Negro league. Yeah, and when he was basically

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Speaker 1: removed from it, the whole thing fell apart. That's how

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Speaker 1: much of a driver this guy was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's in the Hall of Fame too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a catcher, I think.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't even think he was in as a player,

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Speaker 2: but he was really Yeah, I think just for his achievement,

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Speaker 2: I gotcha, although it may have been both, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But in nineteen twenty he said, all right, here's what

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Speaker 2: we'll do. Let me get these seven team owners of

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Speaker 2: the Midwestern League that are doing these you know, bar

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Speaker 2: and storming traveling shows. Basically, let's get together in Kansas

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Speaker 2: City seven all black teams. In addition to those two

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Speaker 2: Chicago Giants, we have the Cuban Stars, the Dayton Marcos,

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Speaker 2: the Indianapolis Abcs, and the very famous Kansas City Monarchs

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Speaker 2: and Saint Louis Giants all and this is the really

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Speaker 2: like great thing about the story, All of these teams

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Speaker 2: except for the Monarchs, were black owned teams.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, not only do you have black players careers developing, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have like black enterprise developing in a time when

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Speaker 1: there were very few avenues of opportunity for black people

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Speaker 1: to advance in business. Yeah, and in a sense where

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Speaker 1: they own the business. This is a really good way

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Speaker 1: to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And not only that, like the Major League Baseball

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Speaker 2: site points out, like this was like it should be

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Speaker 2: embraced in some ways because this at a time was

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Speaker 2: the only one of the only ways that minorities could

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Speaker 2: fully excel to their fullest potential.

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Speaker 1: Right you know. Yeah, And that was a point of

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Speaker 1: that article that I thought was pretty cool, is that

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Speaker 1: one of the things they lamented about the segregation of

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Speaker 1: baseball during this time is that we'll never know how

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Speaker 1: Babe Ruth would have stood up against Satchel Page pitching

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Speaker 1: to them because they never got to play each other.

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Speaker 1: So the truly great players are truly great at during

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Speaker 1: this time within their own skin color. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't say they were the greatest in baseball because

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Speaker 1: they were too legitimate parallel leagues going on at the time.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, they played each other sometimes, but if you

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Speaker 1: wanted to sit down and put stats against stats, you'd

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Speaker 1: be very hard pressed to do.

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Speaker 2: That, right, Sure, Taychab, Babe Ruth Christy Mathison, Like we

380
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Speaker 2: know they were good, Like we're not knocking their talent,

381
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Speaker 2: but who knows what it would have been like in

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Speaker 2: a truly integrated league.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And actually it's funny you bring up Ty Cobb

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Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, yeah, type Cobb was a

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Speaker 1: huge racist. I wonder what he thought about the Negro leagues.

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Speaker 1: And I looked it up and I found an article

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Speaker 1: from a guy who argues that Ty Cobb was not

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Speaker 1: the horrible racist that he's made out to be these days.

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Speaker 2: Written by Jimmy Cobb.

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Speaker 1: There he found, well, he actually did cite his son,

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Speaker 1: and I think his son's name.

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Speaker 2: Might be jim Really yeah, oh wow.

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Speaker 1: But the guy found an article from maybe the fifties

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Speaker 1: or something, nineteen fifty two where Ty Cobb is quoted

395
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Speaker 1: at length coming out in favor of integration in Aralia baseball, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: saying like, of course these guys should play as long

397
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Speaker 1: as you know, they conduct themselves like professional baseball players,

398
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Speaker 1: Like why would they not be able to play. I'm

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Speaker 1: totally in favor of it.

400
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Speaker 2: Interesting, like, did Ty Cobb say this? I think that

401
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: bears more research. Yeah, you know, because he was supposedly

402
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Speaker 2: very racist.

403
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not what this guy says. All right, well

404
00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to look into That's not what it is,

405
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Speaker 1: so says.

406
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Speaker 2: I'm not doubting you, of course, I just wanted.

407
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Speaker 1: Sure know I'm with you. I understand.

408
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Speaker 2: So we talked about the integration of the Negro leagues,

409
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Speaker 2: which is awesome. Pretty soon other leagues form, not just teams. Yeah,

410
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 2: there was one right here in the South, the Negro

411
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: Southern League, with teams from right here in Atlanta.

412
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Speaker 1: Dude, do you know the Atlanta team played directly.

413
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Speaker 2: Across the street ponstan Lyon Park.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where there's now a Staples and a home depot

415
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Speaker 1: in a pet Smart.

416
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Speaker 2: At a Whole Foods.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

418
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Speaker 2: How like funny is that?

419
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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you walk into Whole Foods and listen, you

420
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Speaker 1: can hear the ghost of a back cracking on a ball.

421
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. This. I don't think this was the first team

422
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 2: in Atlanta that played in the Negro Southern League because

423
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Speaker 2: they folded that same year. But the Atlanta Black Crackers

424
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Speaker 2: we also had the Atlanta Crackers, which was the white team.

425
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Speaker 2: We had the Atlanta Black Crackers. And it sounds funny

426
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Speaker 2: that we say Ponce de Leon not pontste Lyon, but

427
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Speaker 2: that's how we say it here. It's the street that

428
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 2: fronts our office building.

429
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Speaker 1: Ponce de Leon himself with a punch you in the

430
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Speaker 1: stomach if you heard you say his name like that though.

431
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Speaker 2: But that's the street in Atlanta that fronts our office

432
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Speaker 2: And if you go and look on the internet, you

433
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Speaker 2: can see these awesome pictures of this cool little baseball

434
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: stadium right there, hundreds of feet from where we sit. Yeah,

435
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: really neat.

436
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but now you.

437
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Speaker 2: Have Whole Foods.

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00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you can just have to listen close.

439
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: Seven dollars for artists and mayonnaise.

440
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: If you're lucky. Seven dollars.

441
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: Oh that's just for the the just for one smear, Yeah,

442
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: just one smear.

443
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 1: Did you hear? Whole Foods got caught like with uncalibrated

444
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: scales for their hot bar stuff.

445
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 2: Like it's not already expensive night, Yeah, that's that crazy.

446
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 1: I expect a lot more from them.

447
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, never get anything with bones at one

448
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: of those oh never?

449
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: Or liquid?

450
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: What a waste. Yeah, you throw half of that chicken

451
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: leg away? Yeah you paid for it? Sure, or just

452
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: you know, grind that chicken bone up and eat it

453
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: and get your money's.

454
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, like peel off with your teeth, spit the meat

455
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: into your little basket, and throw the bone back into

456
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: the hot bar.

457
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh I didn't think about that. Sure, that's great idea.

458
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: Then you can say I'm no chump.

459
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just go around screaming not paying for that bone.

460
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: All right, So where are we? Where the Negro Southern

461
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 2: League folded? The Eastern Colored League opened in nineteen twenty three,

462
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: and then finally in nineteen twenty eight, the American Negro

463
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 2: League formed, And that was, uh, that was when things

464
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: like they called eventually the American Negro League and the

465
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: American I'm sorry, the National Negro League, the majors of

466
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: the Negro leagues. Right like that was where the krim

467
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: Dela crime played.

468
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: And everything's going pretty smoothly except two things happen. Right

469
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: there was even like a Negro League World Series. It

470
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: has a best of nine. The Kansas City was really Yeah,

471
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: the Kansas the City Monarchs narrowly beat the Hilldale team

472
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: they're from Darby, Pennsylvania, which I guess is near Philadelphia,

473
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: in the first one in nineteen twenty four, So there's

474
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: like there's a there's these leagues have established themselves by

475
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four, they have their own world series going, right,

476
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: But just within a few years there are a couple

477
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: of hits to the league that ultimately led to the

478
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: Negro Majors disbanding. One is that Rube Foster suffered a

479
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: gas poisoning in a hotel room. Yeah, in a hotel

480
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: room in Indianapolis. He was found unconscious. And there's some

481
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: theory that like everyone believed in ghosts and spirits and

482
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: mediums in the nineteenth century because they were all being

483
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: poisoned by the natural gas that was like leaking into

484
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: their kitchens and homes all the time. Right, Well, this

485
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: guy had like an acute poisoning and was found unconscious.

486
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: And after that, when he regained consciousness and his nurse

487
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: back to health, he lost his mind and he just

488
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: kept getting worse and worse. And by nineteen twenty five,

489
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: I think has happened in nineteen twenty four, nineteen twenty five,

490
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: he was institutionalized. Yeah, and by nineteen thirty he died

491
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: of a heart attack at age fifty one. And again,

492
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: his guidance was so integral in this first incarnation of

493
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: the Negro leagues that you know, when he was institutionalized,

494
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: obviously they weren't like, well, what does the league do next? Yeah,

495
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: he was in an institution, and the league started to

496
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: falter and fall apart, and eventually that coupled with the

497
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: depression and the on side of the depression, Yeah, really

498
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: kind of led to the unraveling of the first Negro League.

499
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this the Major League Baseball site. You know,

500
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: these were they profited on certain days of the week.

501
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: Sundays were big days because they were played double headers.

502
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: But the fact is Black Americans didn't have a lot

503
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: of expendable money to throw at going to baseball, even

504
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: though they're you know, pretty cheap. That was commiserate with

505
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: what people made at the time.

506
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: Unless you were one of the Walker brothers whose dad

507
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: was a physician.

508
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably a little money.

509
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: Sure, they were playing, so I'm sure their parents got

510
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: him for free. Probably, So so it's all just a

511
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: moot point.

512
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 2: I wonder if they did get free family tickets back then,

513
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: I would hope.

514
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: So that's got to be as old as tickets, right,

515
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: probably we got to do an episode on tickets guess lists.

516
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were making a little money on Sundays.

517
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: They weren't hugely profitable overall, even though they were known

518
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: as somewhat successful.

519
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: Like, no, a lot of these guys were still barnstorming

520
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: on their off days.

521
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. And these are the players, you know, trying to

522
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: make ends meet, like the owners themselves were struggling here

523
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: and there. White people came to see games sometimes, especially

524
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: when they were exhibition games against white teams, right, because

525
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: they love to go out there and see the see

526
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: something they had never seen before. Yeah, which many times

527
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: was the black team mopping the floor with the white team.

528
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: Although it seemed pretty evenly matched, like from what I gathered,

529
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: it wasn't like lopsided one way or the other. Yeah,

530
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: Like they were good competitive games.

531
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. There are plenty of white players who are better

532
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: than the black players, and there are plenty of black

533
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: players who are better than white players. Yeah. Yeah, I

534
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: would say evenly match is a good way to put

535
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: so if you had an integrated league, you would get

536
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: the best of both.

537
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: Right, which is eventually what we got.

538
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: Plus also in some of these cities, Chuck, These there

539
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: were not just baseball was segregated, but just within the

540
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: city you had a white team and you had a

541
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: black team.

542
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: Right.

543
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: And that's that's evidence in the names of some of

544
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: the black teams, like the Black Crackers, the Black Yankees.

545
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: There were the Yankees and then there were the Crackers.

546
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: Right.

547
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: So if you were a white player or a white person,

548
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: you're probably a fan of the white team and you

549
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: weren't going and watching the black teams play.

550
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: Right. So they list out four things here on the site.

551
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: They say the two leagues, the American and National Negro

552
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: Leagues were northern and basically city dwelling teams. Couple that

553
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: with there weren't a lot of black people living in

554
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: northern cities at the time. The South was, you know,

555
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: was way more well I want to say integrated, but

556
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: it wasn't integrated. Way more black people living in the

557
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: South at the time.

558
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is I wonder why the Southern Negro League

559
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: didn't take off like a rocket then.

560
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean probably for the other reasons, like you

561
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: couldn't afford to go to the games and all that stuff.

562
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.

563
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: Black people that were in the North didn't have a

564
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: whole lot of money, and so basically all that adds

565
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: up to not a lot of audience buying tickets, and

566
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: the only way to keep a league afloat is to

567
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: sell tickets and to sell concessions, same as it is today.

568
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: So all those things couple with Rube Foster and the depression,

569
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: their greatest champion and probably sharpest mind sadly succumbing to

570
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: mental illness and then the depression, and that was the

571
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: end of the beginning of the negro leagues, right.

572
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the end of the first one. Yes,

573
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: and there were more to come, and we'll talk about

574
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: it right after this stoff, We Josh shop definitely should

575
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: drop large holds of each other. Y s k.

576
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: All right, So, uh it didn't take long. Uh the

577
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: old saying you can't keep a good man down. People

578
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: wanted to play baseball, they were good at it. They

579
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: thought there was more money to be made in leagues.

580
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: And so what happens is these numbers guys get involved,

581
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: and a numbers man is the numbers game was basically

582
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: like an illegal, unsanctioned street lottery, right, So numbers guys

583
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: had a lot of money and some of them said,

584
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: you know what, let's put money into starting baseballs and leagues.

585
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

586
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: And one guy in particular in Pittsburgh, Gus Greenley, great name.

587
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: He was a bar owner in Pittsburgh. He bought the

588
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Crawfords in nineteen thirty one. He said, all got

589
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: a team, but I don't have a league. So two

590
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: years later he formed the second Negro National League, and

591
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 2: other numbers guys bought in, and all of a sudden

592
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: they had another league going.

593
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this basically kicked off what's known as the

594
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: Golden Age of the Negro leagues. Yeah, starting about nineteen

595
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: thirty one, thirty two, thirty three, when these other teams

596
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: came about, and Greenley's team himself, was it his? No,

597
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it would have been right across the river,

598
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: the Homestead Grays.

599
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. They eventually migrated back to Pittsburgh. Over to Pittsburgh.

600
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they were the same team that went from

601
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: one town to another. They weren't rivals.

602
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: No, I think there was still the other Pittsburgh team,

603
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: But from what I understand, the Homestead Grays eventually became

604
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: part of Pittsburgh. Okay, or maybe there was another team

605
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but I do know they eventually went to.

606
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh because you know Homestead, We've been there. We did

607
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: a show there. Yeah yeah, okay, and I was like.

608
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: Are we going to the right place when the car

609
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: was taking me.

610
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: So Homestead used to have not just a team, they

611
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: used to have the best Negro League team possibly ever.

612
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, wait easy.

613
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: For nine consecutive years they won the Pennant, right.

614
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, nine years in a row. Josh gibbson Cool, Papa Bell,

615
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 2: and Buck Leonard some of their stars.

616
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, just some of them. In nineteen thirty five, they

617
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: had no less than five future Hall of famers on

618
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: it on the team. Five.

619
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

620
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: Point to a team that has five future Hall of

621
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: famers on it now or ever?

622
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: Did well? So some of the Yankees teams did over

623
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: the years. But like, I don't think anything right now.

624
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, now, like even the best team right now

625
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: doesn't have five future Hall of Famers.

626
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: Certainly not the Braves, we don't have one.

627
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: I don't know.

628
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: I could see Freddy Freeman hitting the Hall of Fame

629
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: one day. Oh really, I haven't been watching the last

630
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: couple of seasons.

631
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: I mean, he's our best player, but because Fred the

632
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: best player on the worst team in baseball, not very

633
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 2: good casey at the bat. All right, So we did

634
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: mention that there were exhibition games going on, and things

635
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: really picked up with the exhibition games now because they

636
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: were a little well funded, and this is when white

637
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: players would come and see the teams playing. I mean,

638
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: it was basically more popular than ever in both communities.

639
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and we said that they had the Negro League

640
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: World Series going on, right, Yeah, there was actually another

641
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: game that came out of this. I think it was

642
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: it might have been Gus Greenley, I think it was

643
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: who came up with this is the East versus West

644
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: All Stars game. Yeah, and that became bigger than the

645
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: World Series and whatever was in the Negro League.

646
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: It was huge.

647
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that became kind of like the de facto

648
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: big game of the year rather than the World Series

649
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: for Yeah, and they played it every year I think

650
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: in Kamiski Field. Oh really, yeah, in Chicago, because you

651
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: know East East West in Chicago. That's right, that's what

652
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: it says on the T shirts.

653
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: At least, so players are starting to make some like

654
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: the top players are starting to make some pretty good

655
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 2: money at the time. You can't go any further without

656
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: talking about Satchel Page Leroy, Statchel Paige. Dude, he was

657
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: a pitcher, very interesting dude.

658
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: Maybe the greatest picture of all time in the sport

659
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: of baseball.

660
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: Maybe he was eccentric, he was an entertainer.

661
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like the Usain Bolt of his day.

662
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: People loved him. Oh okay, except he didn't like to run.

663
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: That would makes it a little different.

664
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: Even said he didn't like to run.

665
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well was his quote. He said that training for

666
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: me is rising gently from the bench.

667
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: Back onto the bench.

668
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: Right.

669
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: So he had have you ever seen video or I

670
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: guess you know film of him pitching.

671
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, with those old timy baggy baseball pants.

672
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the style. But his he had a

673
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 2: weird wind up. He had this sort of double windmill

674
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: that he would do with his pitching arm. And then

675
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: when he was younger, he had a great fastball, and

676
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: he had he was noted for his control like Greg Maddox,

677
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: like in his pinpoint control. Yeah, like supposedly could just

678
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: put a baseball within a half inch of where he

679
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: wanted it to be, which is a big big deal

680
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: for a pitcher. Sure, as he lost his fastball. Over

681
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: the years, he learned basically every pitch under the sun. Like,

682
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: he pitched until he was fifty nine years old.

683
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he first signed in the majors, White majors at

684
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: forty two.

685
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty two, forty two year old rookie.

686
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: He was. He's the oldest rookie ever in the in

687
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. And I think the oldest pitcher ever

688
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: oh as well.

689
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was even older than Gaylord Perry.

690
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: How old was he?

691
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: He was in his forties. Oh, like Nolan Ryan, Gaylord

692
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: Perry a few pres Nolan Ryan made it to fifty. No,

693
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: not fifty, but he came close. Like pitchers notably have

694
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: been a little older, which is crazy because like they're arms. Yeah,

695
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 2: but they're not you know, they're not like running around

696
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: and batting like other players. Yeah, but you're right, like

697
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: Freddie Freeman, like the stress on the stress on the

698
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: arm is amazing.

699
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: So one thing that that was problematic or is problematic

700
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: when you're going back and looking at the negro leagues

701
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: is that a lot of teams were allowed to, depending

702
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: on the league, were allowed to set their own schedules. Yeah,

703
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: stats weren't kept quite as well. As they were in

704
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: the white leagues.

705
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know Satchel Page's real lifetime stats, no,

706
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: but in full.

707
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: There are some estimates.

708
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they are high. Oh yeah.

709
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: So the one that I saw is that Satchel Page

710
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: had I think it was in this article on MLB

711
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: dot com, which eventually will say the author's name.

712
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 2: Right.

713
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, they said that he had three hundred career shutouts.

714
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: Three hundred career shutouts, and this guy says in italics,

715
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: not wins, Yeah, shutouts, right.

716
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you don't know baseball, shutout means you have

717
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: pitched a game where no one scored a run. Right,

718
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: And back then there were probably complete game shutouts, meaning

719
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: he never came out and was relieved by another pitcher.

720
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: Right, he would have pitched like all nine innings.

721
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: Back at in the day. They used to do that

722
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: way more than they do now.

723
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so he had three hundred career shutouts, fifteen hundred

724
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: wins is the estimate that that's on MLB dot com.

725
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, to put that into perspective for non baseball fans, again,

726
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: if you have three hundred wins wins, not shutouts, win,

727
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 2: then you're a Hall of Famer. Yeah, And In fact,

728
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 2: they don't think there will ever be another three hundred

729
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: game winner again because of there are more pitchers in

730
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: the rotation now. They usually have five guys instead of four.

731
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: They don't pitches deep into games, they wrest them a

732
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: lot more. So it's just we may not ever see

733
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: that happen again, just because of the way it's built to.

734
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: Also put in perspective, cy Young is regarded as one

735
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: of the best pitchers ever in Major League Baseball, named

736
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: the Top Award after him exactly. He had seventy six shutouts,

737
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: which is amazing. He had the most wins ever still

738
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball at five to eleven, So Satchel

739
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: Page had conceivably three times more wins, yeah, than the

740
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: highest win count ever in Major League.

741
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: And that's counting his entire career, I assume, which again

742
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: was very very long.

743
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: Sure it was a very long career, but that just

744
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 1: makes it all the more amazing, especially as he gets older.

745
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like let's say that people don't say, don't count

746
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: the negro leagues as being in the top league at

747
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: the time, Like cut it in half, and he's still

748
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: way ahead of everybody else. Yeah, if you subtract fifty

749
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: percent of everything he did, and.

750
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: The fact that he sat in a rocking chair in

751
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: the dugout and I had like a huge personality. It's

752
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: just awesome.

753
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. So he learned all sorts of pitches. By the

754
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: end of his career, he was pitching knuckleballs, and he

755
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 2: was famous for the hesitation pitch, which he invented, which

756
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: was when he got to the White major leagues, they

757
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 2: were like, that's illegal. You can't do that. It's called

758
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: the bulk yeah, and he was like, all right, well.

759
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: No, He's like, no, it's called the hesitation pitch, don't

760
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: you know.

761
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: It was very sneaky. You know, it's like you act

762
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: like you're pitching, then you stop. Because he was like,

763
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: you know, I got guys up there that are starting

764
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: to swing because I'm so fast, Like when they see

765
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: me winding up, they're starting to swing. Yeah, So if

766
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: I just put a little slight pause there, then they're

767
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: swinging and then the ball comes. So it was a

768
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: very very tricky little pitch. And he was making between

769
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 2: thirty and fi forty grand a year and the Negro

770
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: and this is also with appearances and stuff like that,

771
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: but in the Negro leagues, which is about half a

772
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: million dollars today. Yeah, amazing amount of money at the time.

773
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: You know, and those appearances. If you were a team

774
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: owner that had Satchel Page on your team, you might

775
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: let him go make some scratch and probably take a

776
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: cut yourself by lending him to another team whose attendance

777
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: was struggling. Yeah, And all you had to do was

778
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: advertise for a week that Satchel Paige was going to

779
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: be pitching one day, and you would sell out so

780
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: he would help other Negro League teams that were right

781
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: that were struggling.

782
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could to be a draw.

783
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

784
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: And here's one little cool thing about our own Atlanta

785
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 2: Braves and nineteen sixty eight, Satchel Page was lacking one

786
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 2: more season to get his Major League Baseball pension and

787
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 2: was out of the league and retired, and the Atlanta

788
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: Braves signed him as a player coach.

789
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: Like Terry Pendleton.

790
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was never a player coach, was he?

791
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: No? But here's a player and then a coach.

792
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: Oh oh, yeah, Pete Rose was a player coach, was

793
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 2: he really?

794
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: Like?

795
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: He managed the Reds and played for them. I did

796
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: not and bet on them. Yeah, but they signed him

797
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: to a one year deal so he could get his

798
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: major league Baseball pension. That is awesome, which is really cool.

799
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: Clot What year was that, nineteen sixty eight, that's really cool.

800
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, go brave.

801
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: So if you see a picture. When I saw a

802
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: picture of him in the Braves uniform, I was like,

803
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: wait a minute, he never played for the Braves and

804
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: he really didn't. It was it was sort of, you know,

805
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: just a little sneaky way to get him in there.

806
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: That's cool, which is great. All right, So Satchel Page

807
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: is killing it. Other players are killing it. It would

808
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: not be long before somebody in the white leagues, somebody

809
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: said the talent is too good. Somebody has to be

810
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: the first to make this move and break the color barrier.

811
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah right, you know that was the thing like this.

812
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: The Negro leagues were, ultimately, as we'll find out, victims

813
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: of their own success. The players that they supported and

814
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: brought into the game were of obvious major league caliber.

815
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in any major league. They were the best

816
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: in the world. They were just playing on segregated teams.

817
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: And so finally a group of people, but especially it

818
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: usually comes in the form of one guy named branch Rickey. Yeah,

819
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: did Tom Hanks play him. No, Harrison Ford.

820
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: No, Maybe, well, I didn't see the most recent jacket

821
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 2: Robinson was Arison Ford. Maybe I've seen him portrayed in

822
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: other movies.

823
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: I can't tell if it was him or not because

824
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: the actor didn't have a diamond studded earring in, but

825
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford could have taken it out for the role.

826
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: This guy named branch Ricky. It was an exact get

827
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: ever a manager for the Dodgers.

828
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: He was he was with he was an executive Dodgers

829
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: and he said, and this was when they were in Brooklyn, right, Yeah,

830
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: he said, this is ridiculous.

831
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: There we need to break this color barrier. There's plenty

832
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: of great players out there that I want to sign.

833
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to break this unspoken rule. And he looked

834
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: around to find a player who was not only good,

835
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: but who he felt could withstand this horrendous reception that

836
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: whoever the first black player would be would definitely receive

837
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: and who did receive and he found it in the

838
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: in the person of Jackie Robinson.

839
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a huge point because, like I said,

840
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: Roy Campanella was probably better player at the time than

841
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: Jackie Robinson. But if you see the Jackie Robinson story.

842
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: I didn't see the recent one, like I said, but

843
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: I just know a lot about his story. He was

844
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: the right guy. He had the temperament, he had the leadership.

845
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: Roy Campanello take your head off, Well yeah he did.

846
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: He was a tough guy. But Jackie Robinson was the

847
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: man in every way. And we should also shout out

848
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: to the road being paved by people like Joe Louis

849
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: and Jesse Owens before Jackie Robinson. Yeah, as far as

850
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 2: just white America accepting mainstream black athletes into their lives.

851
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know if it was on this

852
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: or on there's a site called Negro League Baseball dot

853
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: com that has a really good article called the Negro

854
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: League Baseball one oh one or something like that. Yeah,

855
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: it's the basics. There's a definite story to the whole thing, right.

856
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

857
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: But they point out that probably more than anything that

858
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: helped break the color barrier was blacks serving in World

859
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: War Two, oh yeah, serving alongside white soldiers and stories

860
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,919
Speaker 1: coming back from the front of like, hey, these guys

861
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: are killing Germans just as fast as any any white guy.

862
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, And.

863
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: At the time America was like, well, we that people exactly.

864
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: So when they returned, the black soldiers came home to

865
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: a different America that they helped change by fighting in

866
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: World War Two.

867
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.

868
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: And I mean that the timing of this apparently is

869
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: not coincidental that Jackie Robinson was signed in nineteen forty six,

870
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: a year after World War Two went for sure.

871
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh so, branch Ricky was. He was a very

872
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: puritanical guy. He would often lecture players on sex and

873
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 2: drinking and stuff, and he was he wasn't just some benevolent,

874
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 2: benevolent champion of the black man.

875
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a good point, man, because a lot

876
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: of times stories like this end up being about the

877
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: guy who took the giants and paved the way for

878
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: the black player. But he did, he did, but he

879
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: was an ideal emphasis. It's just too easy sometimes for

880
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: the emphasis to go on to that where it's like, well,

881
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: the black player like came. He was one of the

882
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: greatest baseball players of all time.

883
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,479
Speaker 2: Exactly. Let's let's put it this way. If branch Rickey

884
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 2: hadn't wanted to sell tickets by fielding a good team,

885
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: he would have never signed Jackie Robinson. He was a businessman.

886
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: The Dodgers sucked at the time, but he was an idealist.

887
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: I mean he was very much like, no, like this

888
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: is wrong and they should be allowed to play.

889
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, So he was a complex human being

890
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: like all other human beings. Yeah, yeah, he can't just

891
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: be shoehorned into an easy caricature. No, that's great. So

892
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: branch Ricky complicated human being. He selected Jackie Robinson and

893
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: it was a great selection.

894
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Jackie Robinson played one year in the Miners, which

895
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: was ridiculous. They should have just like he spent his

896
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 2: entire life playing in the miners, they should have just

897
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 2: promoted him right away. But I think they just wanted

898
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: to ease that transition. He won the batting title in

899
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 2: the Miners his only year there, and then one Rookie

900
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 2: of the Year in his very first year with the

901
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Dodgers. Yeah, and that was April fifteenth, nineteen forty seven,

902
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 2: was when he made his DAB, which was very, very

903
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 2: historic day. Yeah, an amazing day that Major League Baseball

904
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 2: is really like honored Jackie Robinson to the fullest.

905
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, they should great, but Jackie Robinson definitely threw

906
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: up in the floodgates within four months of Jackie Robinson

907
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: being signed or no, I guess actually being called up

908
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: to the majors. Yeah, two other guys were signed, both

909
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: in July, and I think that year there were a

910
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: number of other black players suddenly playing for white Major

911
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 1: League Baseball, which is suddenly not now just major League Baseball,

912
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: not white major League Baseball, that's right.

913
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Larry Dobie, Cleveland Indians, Willard Brown, the Saint Louis Browns,

914
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: Henry Hank Thompson, the Saint Louis Browns, Dan Bankhead, Leroy

915
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: Satchel Page made it finally, and of course Rore Campanella,

916
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: among others. These were the first African Americans in Major

917
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: League baseball, and by nineteen fifty two, just a few

918
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 2: years later, there were one hundred and fifty black players,

919
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 2: and by nineteen fifty four, all but four major league

920
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: teams had black players. There were a few holdouts.

921
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Boston Red Sox notably were the last. They

922
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: waited until nineteen fifty nine, thirteen years after Jackie Robinson's

923
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: debut season. Yeah, in the miners.

924
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: So with the signing of Jackie Robinson and all the

925
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: players to follow like you hinted at earlier, and like

926
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: this article plainly says, it was a very bittersweet end.

927
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: And one way, it was great. The color barrier was smashed,

928
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 2: the league was being integrated, and they were getting their due,

929
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: although it was a struggle. But in another way, it

930
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: was also sad that this league that had so much

931
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 2: gumption and such a great like we'll do it ourselves

932
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: then attitude and empower these men to play in, these

933
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 2: people to own these teams and start their own leagues.

934
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: So it was definitely like a weird time in history.

935
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 2: It is, like I think nowadays there's much more of

936
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 2: a reverence and a bit of mourning for the disappearance

937
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: of that league. But you know, in another way, like

938
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: I said, it was smashing, the color barrier was way

939
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: more sure, way more better. I just went into hulk speak.

940
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: So yeah, it would have been a much more satisfying

941
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: end of the whole thing if the Negro leagues had

942
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: poached the best players in the White Major League Baseball.

943
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 2: Oh. Actually, you know what the best possible thing could

944
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: have been was if the White major leagues absorbed those

945
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 2: teams and owners and ownership. It's part of one big league.

946
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: Nice but they're like, no, we're just going to take

947
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: your players.

948
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, give them to us.

949
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

950
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: So that is Negro League Baseball, the history of it.

951
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: YEP officially disbanded in nineteen forty eight, and article says

952
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: into the nineteen fifties there were still a few teams

953
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 2: playing here and there, and in the early nineteen sixties

954
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 2: even that was like one final team or I guess

955
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: one final pair of teams. I guess they had to

956
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: play somebody still playing.

957
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: Or they could scrimmage themselves.

958
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. It says the Negro American League was the last

959
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 2: to throw in the town in the early sixties.

960
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

961
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, more than one team.

962
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: And this article makes a point today, or at least

963
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, major League Baseball was forty percent non white,

964
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: which I was like, what I would have guessed It

965
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: was the opposite of that that I would have guessed.

966
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: Six percent of Major League Baseball players are white.

967
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, there's a big push I think,

968
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 2: like the one of the least represented demographics now in

969
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: pro baseball or African Americans really, Yeah, partially because of

970
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: the rise of Latino players and then partially because they

971
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 2: there's not a big a push to play baseball these

972
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: days as kids in America, and so there's a lot

973
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: of concerted efforts to try and get baseball going again

974
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 2: in black communities, which is awesome.

975
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: Sure you know, yeah, I know. I was pushed by

976
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: Dad's like get out there and get hitting the head

977
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: with the ball.

978
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 2: See, I wouldn't allowed. I had to play church softball,

979
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: so lamb.

980
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: So then the color bearers broken. And now the last

981
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 1: vestige of any sort of color issue is the Native

982
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: American slurs that are rampant in all sports as far

983
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: as teams go.

984
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Atlanta brave.

985
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: Once we get past that, maybe it'll be finally totally legitimate.

986
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about the Negro Leagues,

987
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: you can type those words in the search bar at

988
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: HowStuffWorks dot com. You can also go check out this

989
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: amazing article called Negro Leagues a Kaleidoscopic Review. It's on

990
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: MLB dot and check out negro League Baseball dot com.

991
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: They have like all sorts of great profiles on the

992
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: players and all that stuff.

993
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: Oh we never said the nicknames. Oh yeah, so we

994
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: rattle off a few of those. Sure, all right, boy,

995
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: these are some good nicknames. How about Jelly Gardner or Spoony.

996
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: Palm, Turkey Sterns.

997
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: Turkey Sterns, he's the Hall of Famer Coppernie Thompson or

998
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: steel Arm Davis.

999
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,919
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned cool Papa Bell.

1000
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cool Papa Bell.

1001
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: That is the greatest name ever.

1002
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: Uh, Possum Polls, Ace Adams, King, Tutt, Smoky Joe Williams,

1003
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: Bullet Joe Rogan, not yeah Joe Rogan. Did you know

1004
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: that Rats Henderson boy Turkey Sterns. That might be the best.

1005
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 2: That might be my new hotel pseudonym, Cool Papa Joe. Yeah,

1006
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: but no one to buy that at the hotel registry.

1007
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if you go up and Tray Sterns, they definitely.

1008
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 2: Go for Those are great nicknames, all right?

1009
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, So now that we said Turkey Stearns,

1010
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail.

1011
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 2: This one I'm gonna call short and sweet. What do

1012
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 2: you call it when you remember something with a pneumatic device?

1013
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 1: Uh? No, mnemonic. Pneumatic is when you remember it while

1014
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: you're pumping air up and down?

1015
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 2: Was it nomadic? You remember it while you're wandering around? Mnemonic?

1016
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: Of course? I feel like a dummy. Howdy Josh and Chuck.

1017
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: Friend recommended your show to me recently, and I love it.

1018
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: You satisfy all my nerdy entertainment requirements. While I'm at work.

1019
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 2: You seem to have a bit of trouble recalling the

1020
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: order of h taxonomic taxonomic categories. Boy, I'm gonna have

1021
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 2: trouble in this next show during Wooly Mammos, not wooly Mammas,

1022
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 2: as our typo originally said.

1023
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was my fault.

1024
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: That's right, you just forgot to know, Wally. Here's an

1025
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: easy memory trick we learned in high school biology. Kings

1026
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: play chess on fine green silk. Kingdom phylum, class, order, family,

1027
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 2: genus species. I love that stuff because I will never

1028
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: forget it.

1029
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: Now. That's not an mnemonic device, is it.

1030
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 2: It's pneumatic. I have no idea why this is still

1031
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: in my head over ten years later. Well that's exactly why. Sure, Katie,

1032
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: So hope that helps. And that is Katie from West Texas.

1033
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Katie from West Texas. We appreciate that

1034
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: Kings play chess on green.

1035
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 2: Silk, fine green silk.

1036
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: I'll never remember the fine party. If you want to

1037
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: get in touch with us, you can send us an email.

1038
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: The Stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com and has always

1039
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: joined us at our home on the web, Stuff Youshould

1040
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: Know dot com.

1041
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1042
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple

1043
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 2: Podcasts you listen

1044
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: To your favorite shows