WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 2 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.360 Once the last time you took a time out. I'm 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.080 Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.360 Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.040 division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm doctor 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.800 Addina Rukar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.760 expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, and burnout. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.960 We're so excited to share our podcast, time Out, a 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:29.160 production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine, repealing back 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.760 the layers around why society makes it so easy to 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.960 guard men's time like it's diamonds and treat women's time 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.760 like it's infinite like sand. And so whether you're partnered 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.159 with or without children, or in a career where you 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.879 want more boundaries, this is the place for you for 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.440 people of all family structures. So take this time out 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:52.280 with us to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.560 your time. Listen to Time Out, a fair Play podcast 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.920 on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or We're 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:06.720 ever you get your podcasts. I'm Colleen with Join Me, 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.640 the host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I Eat 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:14.040 a meal created by self made entrepreneurs influencers and celebrities 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:15.959 over a meal they once eight when they were broke. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.400 Today I have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.720 of comfin Asia kidding and Asia. This is the professor. 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.280 We're here on Eating Wall Broke, and today I'm gonna 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.040 break down my meal that got me through a time 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.679 when I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.759 the I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.440 you get your podcasts. Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.720 the hit podcast How Men Think. And that's good news 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.120 for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone. 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.880 It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.640 podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.720 It's going to be fun and formative and probably a 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.080 bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.920 minds of men. Listen to How Men Think on the 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.240 I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.680 your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.760 to let you know. This is a compilation episode, So 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.480 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.440 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.640 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.200 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.400 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:34.040 can make your own decisions. Welcome to It could Happen 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.119 Here the show where I had to change the introduction 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.440 because Sophie said it would confuse people. So now we're 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.639 just doing the boring thing and saying the actual name 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.960 of the show, which is it could happen here. Um. 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.720 It's a show about the fact that the society is 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.799 kind of falling apart or changing, depending on your perspective 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.880 of things, and people need to prepare for what's coming, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.760 which is a world of greater instability and economic collapse 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:03.560 and rising at ratarianism and increasing fights in order to 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.280 reverse and stymy all of those terrible things. UM. And 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.800 you know, one of the things I've seen in some 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.440 early feedback from um other stuff I've done on other shows, 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.520 and also from earlier episodes of this is people who 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.120 will go like, Hey, everything you're saying about mutual aid 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.640 is rad But I live in X town and whatever state, 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.280 and there's there's nothing here. There's not not an organized left. 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.600 I don't I don't know of any mutual aid groups. Um, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.960 how can I get involved? Or like, how could I 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.880 start my own organization and try to get people involved? 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:36.920 And then the another thing we get asked a lot 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.960 is like, Hey, what you're saying about building resiliency and 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:44.520 preparing for difficult times, gardening and whatnot sounds great. But 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.120 I'm poor as ship and I live in a tiny 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.400 apartment um or whatever. I I have no resources or 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.480 no room. Um, even if you're not none of enough money, like, 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.200 I'm in the middle of some horribly dense city. So 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.360 this week we're gonna be talking around those sub objects 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:01.920 in a number of different ways. And to kind of 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.040 kick us off, I've got, of course, Garrison with me. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.240 Wokeme up at nine in the morning. How are you doing, Garrison, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:14.400 ungodly early? Yeah, it's it's it's hideous, it's hideous. Um. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.479 And then Margaret Killjoy, who's up at a much more 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.920 reasonable hour because time zones are a wild ass thing. Margaret, 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.800 how do you? How do we how do we introduce you? 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.800 You're an author? Uh, you're a writer of fiction. You 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.320 host a podcast called Live like the World is Dying, right, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.040 and you've had me on and you talk about a 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:34.359 lot of the same things we talked about, and it 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.640 could happen here. We're actually shamelessly stealing your your your 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.480 podcast in order to make it corporate and sold out. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.280 How are you doing, Margaret, I'm excited to be part 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.960 of the corporate sold out its podcast, um, and and 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.440 actually very glad that you all do a wider audience thing. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.680 But um, I think that is a decent way to 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.720 introduce me. I do a lot of different things, and 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:03.400 I've been doing also, like organizing and trying to seek 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.400 radical political change for about twenty years, to degrees of success. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.560 Actually mostly not to any success, because we actually still 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.240 live in maybe a worse society than we were in 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:19.000 two years ago. I tell people that I dropped out 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.919 of college to ride freight trains and overthrow the government, 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:26.880 and I wasn't good at either of those things. I mean, 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.560 you have all your limbs, that's true. I do have 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:37.039 all of my limbs. Yeah. And you're not in prison, um, 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.880 which is really all anyone can ask of the universe. UM. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.800 So you have started a number of organizations in your 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.479 career as an activist in kind of that hat and 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.920 I guess let's start with like, yes, somebody who lives 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.520 in a place, there's no kind of really really organized left. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:54.360 There's probably not in a lot of these places much 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.560 of even like a Democratic party. There's certainly not mutual 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.719 aid efforts UM. And I do think that there's a well, well, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.640 mutual aid is a concept is is pretty firmly rooted 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.640 an anarchism. There's mutual aid kind of organizations that are 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.360 are not particularly leftist, or at least people doing stuff 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:12.960 like that. Like I think a good recent example will 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:14.919 be the Occasion Navy, who did a lot of rescues 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.920 after the most recent set of hurricanes, where certainly not 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.960 a left or an anarchist organization, but a lot of 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:27.760 what they're doing is um is a community aiding itself. UM. So, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:29.640 I don't know where where do we Where? Where do 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.640 you want to start here? Well, I guess I mean 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.560 specifically in disaster times, you don't necessarily work with the 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.200 people that you would assume that you're expecting to work with. 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.440 And you know, one of the one of the stories 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.200 that really sticks with me is like a friend of mine, 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.039 who is this you know, UM train riding anarchistic governed 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:50.080 in tattoos and and all of that. And during flood 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.280 relief in eastern North Carolina was like flying into storms 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.920 and small planes with libertarians because the people who are 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.640 willing to fly small planes into storms and own planes 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.960 tend to be the more libertarian side of things. And 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.400 so here's anarchists and libertarians working together to get people 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.840 what they need. And one of the things that I try, 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.800 because this is one of the biggest questions I think 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.840 that the left faces, and you know, people trying to 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:17.560 make the world better faces, is how do we get 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.920 people involved? And also how do people get involved if 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.320 no one's helping them get involved? And um, I don't 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.240 have all the answers about it, but it's something that 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.640 I I think about obsessively some a lot. And one 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:30.920 of the things that I really try and focus on 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.360 with people as people say, well, I want to be prepared, 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.880 and you talk about community being a very important part 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.200 of apparedness, but I don't feel like I have a 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.440 community because we live in a very isolated society. And 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.280 one of the main things I try and remind people though, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.280 is that in the same way that property relations break down, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.320 like someone's like, oh, I don't have any stuff and 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:50.400 if the apocalypse comes, what will I do? And like, well, 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.200 the kind of the answer is that like whence property 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.120 relations break down, there's a lot of stuff, and it's 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:59.840 very there will be much stuff around, like wherehouses exist 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.280 all of stuff and yeah, Amazon warehouses are going to 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:09.320 become like fun boxes. Yeah, exactly, slash fortified outposts alleged. Yeah. 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.560 And community is the same way, not that you would 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.080 go raid community but instead that um some people, Yeah, 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.120 that's true, And but you can you can create community 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.600 in times of crisis in a way that's actually harder 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.240 to do when the existing social order exists. And and 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.440 the the thing I always say uses my my dumb 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.720 example of this about how people come together during times 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:32.880 of crisis is you know, when I'm waiting for the 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.440 bus and you know, some city or something, and no 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.520 one talks to each other if you don't know each 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.240 other until the bus is like five minutes late, and 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.400 then everyone is comparing notes about where they think they 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.439 saw the bus last, and everyone's friends and sharing snacks 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.360 and things. You know. So in some ways I'm like, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:55.160 be optimistic if you don't already no community, Yeah, And 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.120 I think there's also things you can do that don't 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.000 necessarily cost a lot of money to both kind of 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.240 build resiliency and kind of community connections. Now, one of 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.400 those things I've had a lot of friends in different 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.240 cities work for. There. There will be different farming co ops, right, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.120 and generally the arrangement is you volunteer some sort of 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.439 time helping them with you know, there's a lot of 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.200 ship work on farms, and in return you generally get 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.520 some amount of produce or whatever. But really what you're 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.839 getting is practical experience growing food, and you're meeting the 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.600 kind of people who are interested in growing their own food, 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.360 and you know, those kind of connections can be really 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.000 helpful when things get worse. And so I think it 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:39.120 doesn't necessarily it doesn't have to cost much to to 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.600 try building community now, or to at least try putting 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.040 yourself in some of the spaces where the kind of 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.000 people you might want to be in, the kind of 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.600 people you you might want to know when things get 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:56.320 worse might be. Yeah, and there's a lot of um, 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.160 there's a lot of like opportunities the world kind of 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.040 wants you to volunteer. You there's there's all of these 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.160 things that if you reach out to people and you're like, hey, 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.960 I don't have any connections, but I'm interested in volunteering. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.520 There are types of organizations that do interesting things that 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.360 are open to that. You know, I kind of maybe 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.760 it's terrible, but whenever my friends, especially my friends were 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.640 in their twenties or something who who don't really feel 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:20.800 kind of lost and without direction for a while, I'm like, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.959 go sit in a tree, like, go join direct action 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:29.880 environmentalist groups that are desperate for people to come live 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.160 their lives in this like self sustaining community. That is 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.680 incredibly traumatic and hard to do. And I don't necessarily 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.800 recommend this to everybody, but you know, it's a thing 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.400 that you can do, is that you can go participate 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:47.400 in in different movements, some of which do want strangers, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.640 you know, some of which don't. Write. Um, you can't 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.840 show up to everything and be like why aren't you 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.760 including me? You're a bunch of assholes? Yeah, and um, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.800 I don't know. So when when it comes to actually 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.400 like trying to start something, um like like like going 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.480 out and accepting, okay, there's not maybe I can't. I 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.600 can't leave my family behind and go do a tree set, 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.600 but I would like to, you know, start a community 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:18.520 engaging in something direct Maybe that's not illegal direct action, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.719 maybe it is. It's none of my business. Um, how 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.760 do you recommend people just kind of start organizations? Find 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.800 people avoid pitfalls? Like, you know, if you've got to 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.160 make your own mutual aid group because there's not one 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.640 in your town and you you wanna. I mean, people 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.280 have expressed a desire to understand how to do that. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.040 So I'm you know, I've never I'm not an organizer. 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.520 I'm barely a journalist. I am curious for your thoughts 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.520 on that. Well, okay, so as my own caveat is, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.000 I'm no longer an organizer. I spent much of my 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.360 twenties being part of organizations and then I finally, um 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.200 realize that I can just kind of do whatever I 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.080 want and then figure out how to plug that into 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.640 other people's things. But I will say the the main 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.320 way of heard this express and I believe in, is 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.360 that we should do if you want to start getting involved, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.840 is you think about what you're good at, and where 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.360 you think about what you want to be good at, 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:10.880 and then you think about the problems that you're facing, 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.520 and then you think about how to apply what you're 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.040 good at to the problems that you're facing. So if 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:16.520 you're sitting there and you're like, well, i'm a I'm 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.079 a really good illustrator, right, I'm not. I'm a terrible illustrator. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.720 But let's say you're a good illustrator, and then you 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:26.120 you could basically reach out to organizations that maybe you 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.840 aren't even close and be like, hey, I'm an illustrator. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.079 Is there anything I can do for you? All? Um? 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.720 But if what you want to do is start an 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:39.440 organization locally, it's okay to start small and build up. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.560 It's okay to you know, it's kind of a if 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.000 you build it, they will come kind of thing in general, 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.080 like if you start, if you figure out what you 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.719 need to do, you know, we want to distribute supplies, right, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.120 then you just do it like you just. Um, even 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.599 if you start by yourself or ideally you kind of 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.599 start with yourself and a couple of friends that you 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.360 drag into it, and then you see what gets inertia 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.560 like rather than like forcing, rather than starting off, don't 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.040 start off by writing your by laws. Um, you know, 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.599 maybe start with an idea of like if you have 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.000 a cool name that you want to use, like sometimes 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.120 that's great to start with, like a hook, and like 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.120 starting a band or something, you know you'd start with 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.880 like the thing that brings everyone together, which is sometimes 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.400 a clever name, but but mostly you just start by 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.160 doing it. And um, you know, one of the one 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.520 of the ways that's longest standing that people can get 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.560 involved with locally or start locally, and there's a lot 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.640 of resources about how to do it is is Food 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.079 not Bombs. Food Not Bombs is a a mutual aid 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.000 project that's existed and I wish I knew off the 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.240 top of my head since when I want to say, 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.079 the late seventies, but I really couldn't tell you. And 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.959 it's just food. It's just organizing food to give to 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.240 people in public. And it's actually wild how illegal it 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.520 is in some places, Like people get arrested for food 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:50.920 not Bombs all the time in Florida, in a couple 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.280 of other places. But yeah, we talked about them in 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:54.920 the first part of the season because there have been 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.120 a couple of point. I don't think nationally the FBI 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:58.920 is talked about them as a terror threat, but like 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:00.679 in the Austin Field, US, and I think one or 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.160 two other places, they've been like discussed as a terrorist 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.880 threat for handing out food. I've had like helicopters flying 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.600 overhead and like riots around the corner and stuffed for 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.920 for handing out food with food ut bombs. Yeah, it's ah, 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.720 they missed the second half of the name. I guess, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.079 I don't know. I don't know. I think maybe if 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.640 we were to create bombs, not food, we we might 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.960 not get as much police attention. But that's just a theory. Yeah. Well, 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:27.760 what everyone says is that we need food. And no 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.160 one says this, no one would ever say this, no 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.160 one would ever believe this. But we need food and bombs, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.520 you know, food hand bombs, yea, bombs for some food 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.000 for others. We don't judge. We provide explosives and we 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:43.440 provide food. Yeah, okay, So if you can, I think 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.720 if you can, you start by working. You figure out 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.960 what you're good at. You find a group of people 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.800 that are interested in accomplishing the same thing, who maybe 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.400 have similar skill sets or different skill sets, and you 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:55.960 figure out what you can do, and you start doing it, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.760 and you organize calling people and being like hey, well 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.840 you donate to us, or getting all your friends together 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.520 to give you stuff to to redistribute or whatever, right 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.479 putting out calls on social media for things to redistribute. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:12.200 You know, most structures start grassroots, and most of the 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:13.880 time they kind of tend to do best when they're 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.280 grassroots instead of becoming a little more codified. So if possible, 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:22.320 do that. But if you're just you, um, sometimes tying 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.960 into existing organizations is a thing worth doing. And if 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:26.840 there's nothing locally, you can look at things a little 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:28.760 further away, or you can look at things that are 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.680 on maybe on a national level. But there's a lot 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:37.200 of dangers in joining existing organizations and structures, and I guess, 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.000 I guess I would say there's like three types of danger, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:41.480 and one is that you talked about all the time. 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.440 And thanks for bringing into the leftist vocabulary the word grifter. 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:49.000 I never heard anyone use the word grifter until your podcasts. 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.880 It's the most important word in the American English for sure. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.320 We live in a fucking grifter republic. It's incredible and 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.320 we always have this isn't new, Yeah, but we need 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.880 more words because we also need the word for people 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.880 who are looking for useful idiots. And there's a lot 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.240 of social movements and not to be like I I 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.720 support the Left. I think that what we're attempting to 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.600 do is very worthwhile, and I like us more than 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.720 the other side by a fair amount. But there's a 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.560 lot of things that there's a lot of problems with 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:20.840 the left, and one of them is that people are 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.000 looking either to just have you as a body with 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.040 no decision making power and no autonomy, which doesn't actually 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.920 build a better world because you're just stop being a 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.800 cog in their machine and become a cog in our machine. Right. 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.440 And then there's also people who are kind of um 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:42.040 looking for useful idiots can and fodder, like people to 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.800 hang around while they while they do stuff or you know, 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.360 and I don't want to go to hard bodies to 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.080 stand out in front of cop shops. Sometimes yeah, and 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.120 even like you know, even like movements that I really 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:55.520 care about that might do a lot of like non 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.600 violence of this obedience, although I don't I'm not particularly 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.720 I'm not passed us personally, but you know, it's a 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.680 very useful strategy and non violence of those obedience. But 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.719 sometimes they're like, oh, you're young and new, lock yourself 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:10.320 to this thing. Get arrested, And I would definitely say 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.119 to people, don't get arrested on purpose at your first actions, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.879 like don't be anyone else's cannon fodder, and so you 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.560 feel like you are part of the decision making and 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:25.000 part of like like you really matter, and like then 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:30.000 then don't um do dangerous things for other people's projects 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.640 like the ship that states do. That's so messed up 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:38.360 is is turn human bodies into resources that then get 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.399 sacrificed for unclear ends. Um, And unless you feel like 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.440 you have some sort of like there are times we're 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.679 being arrested is necessary and helpful, but unless unless you 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.439 feel you fully understand not just why you're doing it, 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.080 but also that like you you you're not being told 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.080 to do it, you have autonomy and like, I'm going 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.600 to do this thing that I know will end in 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.680 my arrest because I like, I don't know. That's probably 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.840 like I think most people in that position know this. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:11.480 But I definitely have encountered some uncomfortable situations in the past, 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.760 I'm sure similar to once you have, where it did 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.600 seem like people were kind of being pushed to take 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.639 that risk for reasons they didn't fully understand or in 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.440 a situation they didn't fully rock you know, yeah, which 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:29.919 which gets at one of the things that when I 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:31.879 talk about how I think this is the biggest problem 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.440 with not not the cannon fodder issue, but the getting 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.840 people involved is the biggest issue I think we currently 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:39.879 face because there's so many people who want to be 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.439 involved right now because the world is even worse than 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:48.240 usual and um, and it's hitting groups of people who 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.040 haven't been hit by before, and people are often also 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.200 looking for a sense of community. And there's a thing 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.159 that people we don't talk about enough when people are 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.240 getting involved. There's two different reasons people get involve aolved, 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.359 and both are entirely valid, and one is to fix 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.600 things and another is to find to break out of 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.920 the isolation that they live in in their daily lives. Um. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.199 And we need to be aware of that when we 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.840 talk about how to onboard people, and we need to 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.359 be aware about that. If you are getting involved, you 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:21.439 should think about your own desires. Are you looking for 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.840 community and if so, you can find it within radical 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.360 action right um. But if you are doing that, then 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.040 you especially need to be on guard against peer pressure 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.600 because it's a really easy way to feel like you're 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:36.400 involved with things is to go hang out with people 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.960 who are all doing a release scary thing and and 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.360 that's beautiful. And I absolutely did that when I when 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.280 I first got involved in anarchism, I I and politics 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:50.879 in general. I I joined in head first, and you know, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.600 spend a night in jail within the first couple of months. 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.320 And I don't have any particularly regrets about that. And 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.240 I found community in a way that I had never 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.879 had in my life because of how isolated our society is. 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.680 But that's not the only reason to go do these 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:08.320 and that is I mean, I think a lot of 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:12.000 people experienced that last year during the George Floyd protests. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.040 Is the kind of I mean, it's the thing we've 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.960 talked about on in the first season. If it could 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:21.240 happen here, that times like that, this war does this too, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.560 can actually provide meaning that that people have lacked. And 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.680 a lot of it is that community that like community 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.359 of sufferers, the trauma bonding UM that feels like the 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.280 most important thing, even because maybe it is the most 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:34.720 important thing you've ever done. I think in a lot 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.640 of cases it is UM. But that's also mind altering, 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.800 and it um it can lead to situations that are 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.040 not entirely dissimilar to cults. Um. I'm not saying that 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.520 they are cults, because cults are number one. With cult 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.439 there's generally going to be like a leader and a 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.800 in such but like, there are things that happened that 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.320 that draw people into cults that are just human things, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.240 their aspects in some cases, as I've said before, of 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.639 like a good party. Um, but there are cult like 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.040 aspects to the kind of groups that form in these 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:08.879 traumatic situations that can lead people to start making really 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.000 poor decisions. Um. And and so you have to really 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:17.199 you always have to be kind of analyzing not just 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.520 what you're doing, but what's going on in your own head, 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.520 in the head of the heads of the people around you. UM. 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.840 That's that's just always important. But I think particularly when 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.520 you're when you're trying to do something new and different 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.639 in a lot of ways, bigger than anything you've done before. 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.600 Do you have any specific advice for like kind of 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:43.840 avoiding the cults of personality that sometimes form in new organizations. Yeah, 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.600 so you have both informal and formal structures can both 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.639 cause problems with cult of personality. There are these brilliant 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:52.439 essays that I haven't read like twenty years that come 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.880 from the feminist movement, and one of them is called 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.200 the Tyranny of structurelessness. And as best as I remember, 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.359 these are very short essays. As best I remember, at 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.600 the tyranny of actuallessness is, if you don't have a 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.000 formal structure in your organization, you're going to have this 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.240 informal leader who basically tells everyone wants to do. And 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:12.639 that's a problem and and it's a very important piece, 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.960 and I believe it comes from a Marxist feminist perspective, 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.440 but I'm not certain. And then there was an anarchist 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.560 feminist response around the same time, maybe I'm not sure, 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:24.040 called the tyranny of tyranny that was like, yes, that's true. 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.600 And also when you have a formal structure and put 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.160 someone in charge there in charge, and that has other 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.560 problems too, And I think that it's just we we 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.920 have to be aware of both of these things. That, UM, 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:39.080 you know, the fact that most movements are very decentralized 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.200 in grassroots as as huge advantages, right, but it does 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:48.280 have problems of causing informal cults of personality. UM. Podcasting 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.040 is a big part of this problem. Um And actually, 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.280 I really appreciate that you're not an organizer, like frankly, 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.840 and it's part of why I'm not an organizer on 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.159 some level is because when people read the books that 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.040 someone writes or listen to someone's voice all the time, 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:08.720 it is very influential, right, and being aware of that 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:14.480 and therefore not exerting that power is a very good thing. Um. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.040 And but there's okay, So the other thing, like when 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.080 I worry about like people getting involved with like don't 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.520 get peer pressured into stuff when you first join. There's 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.160 also this thing that is needs to be talked about. 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:29.400 And maybe I'll have talked about this some previously, but entrapment. 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:35.000 Entrapment is a huge problem, and specifically, the FEDS tend 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:40.040 to look for young idealist activists who can be peer 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.520 pressured into actions that they may or may not have 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.639 otherwise ideologically agreed with, like hey, let's go blow up 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:50.640 a bridge or let's go blow up a damn And 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.680 and this doesn't just happen to the left. It happens um. 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:58.280 Oh yeah, it's all around. Yeah for sure, Like there's 0:23:58.320 --> 0:23:59.960 that case of the guys who are trying to kid 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.639 nap the governor of was it Michigan. A lot of 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.880 that was informants who were there's a lot of there's 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.240 You can debate heavily whether or not it was entrapment. Obviously, 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:16.080 what we we might consider entrapment morally often isn't entrapment 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.920 legally because the FBI does know where the lines are legally, 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:24.119 But that doesn't mean it isn't morally entrapment, right, And 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:27.560 they do that a lot, and they usually succeed um, well, 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.520 they may not usually succeeded, though they usually succeeded the case, 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:35.600 and entrapment defenses are hard to succeed with. And so 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:42.040 really just like and thinking about I think developing your 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:44.200 own moral compass and sticking to it is one of 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.040 the single most important things that a new activist can 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:51.040 can do. And not to be afraid of radical action 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:56.960 necessarily like militant action, but but be wary of it. Um. 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.680 But then again I mean in terms of like being 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:03.960 where are of what the other thing to avoid doing 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:06.640 is like accusing each other, like fed jacketing, like being like, oh, 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:08.240 well that person is doing the same thing a FED 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:12.040 might do, like wink wink, you know, Um, it's a 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:14.600 really complicated an annoying game to play, and if you're 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:16.240 just getting involved, you're gonna have to learn how to 0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:20.160 get it play this game of not fed jacketing and 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:24.880 also not um falling into stuff. And it's annoying because 0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:26.919 you probably have to kind of learn some of the stuff, 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.040 even if all you want to do is give away blankets. 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:32.920 You know, if you want to tie what you're doing 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:37.240 to a larger ideological structure, then it's going to come 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:41.320 up that you need to be aware of how repression 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:45.160 applies to that larger ideological structure. Yeah, like all this 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:50.840 is very useful specifically if you're trying to find something 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:55.520 kind of pre existing um or you know, looking you know, 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.320 or you know, starting something in the bigger city where 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:00.920 you have like connect This can be made to other 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:04.160 existing organizations. And I'm trying to think, you know, there's 0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:06.880 a lot of people who live in more like rural areas. 0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:09.320 It's not much like a liberal or like you know, 0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:13.200 especially left is kind of subculture. How would how would 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.399 you recommend people who live in those kind of scenarios 0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.479 try to start building this community? Wouldn't say like they 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.919 only have like a few friends, Um, what what steps 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:25.520 do you think people can take if they have more, 0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:30.480 you know, a secluded set up, So it is harder. 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:33.800 And I live in a red area close to a 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:36.480 blue area, right And I do most of my organizing 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:38.840 and as much as I do organizing within the the 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:44.920 nearby small hippie city, even though theoretically the thing that 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:48.680 I care the most about is connections to my immediate neighbors. Right. Um, 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:50.919 that is harder, And it is harder for a lot 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:55.639 of different reasons, especially if you have cultural differences between 0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:58.120 you and the people that you're around. Right, Like I'm 0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:00.639 a trans woman and live around a lot of like 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:04.159 farms and stuff, right And and previously this wasn't a 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:06.159 problem before Trump. This what kind of just wasn't a 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.320 problem after Trump. Now all of a sudden, the fact 0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.480 that I'm trans as like an attack against people in 0:27:10.520 --> 0:27:13.359 a way that it never used to be. And and 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:15.320 so now they all have an opinion about the fact 0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:19.159 that we're an address. But still, at the end of 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:21.960 the day, I would say that most of the people 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:25.399 that I'm around are actually totally chill. Like there's a 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:30.320 vocal minority of really horrid people, right, Um, But even 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.280 the people who might be and might have even voted 0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:37.040 for Trump or whatever. Um are not necessarily, at least 0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:40.240 along my own identity lines, amoso white, are not necessarily 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:42.399 going to give me ship. And you know, I can 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:44.360 go talk to them and address and they might be 0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:47.239 sort of confused, and they might not be. But if 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:50.199 you have more culturally in common with the people around you, 0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:51.639 then there is a lot of room that you can 0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:53.280 start working on from there. And this actually ties into 0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:55.200 something that I think applies to people across the board, 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.280 which is we have this especially new activists, but also 0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:00.200 including people who've been in it for a long time, 0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:02.720 and there's like real arrogance about the fact that we're 0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:05.080 like right, And when you want to change the world, 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:06.639 you need a certain amount of arrogance, you need a 0:28:06.680 --> 0:28:08.960 certain amount of like I mean, I literally believe we 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:11.800 need to not have a government or capitalism, and these 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:14.600 are very major changes to our existing structure. Just a 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.439 huge amount of arrogance to that. Although not having a 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:20.080 government is slightly less of a major change now that 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.000 it was a couple of years ago, it's true. And 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:26.720 also like something like sometimes actually it's funny, I used 0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:28.399 that it more in common with these neighbors. But then 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:32.760 all the libertarians went goddamn authoritarian. That bummed the funk 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:36.560 out of me. Yeah, there's there's some good ones. Still, 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:39.360 there's like again, there's the there's the there's the taking 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:42.200 your private plane and do a disaster area libertarians, and 0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:46.320 God bless them totally, and you know, they're like they 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:48.800 just don't want them. You know. It's like my dad 0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:50.720 is sort of on the libertarian side of things and 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:52.960 keeps twenty dollar bills in the visor of his truck 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:54.840 to give to people flying signs, and he just doesn't 0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:57.840 want the government redistributing his money. He doesn't mind redistributing 0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:01.880 his money. Yeah, And I'm like, all right, I don't 0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:05.880 have any real objection to that. He's also no longer anyway. 0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:08.520 If you come at people with this attitude of like 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:11.440 I'm right and you're wrong, the kind of people that 0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:13.840 you can get to join your side by saying I'm 0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:15.680 right and you're wrong are not the people you want. 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:20.800 You want people who challenge authority, including the authority of 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:24.920 people who claim there should be authority, and and so 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:27.880 just actually listening to people and like hearing people out 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:32.480 and um when possible, avoiding Drawing lines between people is 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:34.680 one of the main ways to connect with people across 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:38.920 either cultural divides or especially political divides. And this this 0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:41.680 can't always happen, right, Like I walk down the street 0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:44.400 and address and someone like calls me a bad word, 0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:47.480 like I'm not going to be like. I understand why 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:50.240 you think to call me that, And I understand how 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.800 like me dressed this way kind of challenges your sense 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:56.120 of masculinity that you've been brought up into. Is the 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.640 only way that you can hold yourself strong in a 0:29:58.760 --> 0:30:01.800 very hard world. No, I don't do that. I um scream, 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:04.960 funk you and chase them. Um, I would ever chase 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.600 anyone with a knife. I think that's not legal, So 0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:13.280 I wouldn't do that, but um, you know that might work. 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:16.080 And you know, like, funk those people. I don't care 0:30:16.960 --> 0:30:19.240 what they have to say. No, of course not. And 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:23.800 it when I think one of the things that I 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.360 don't know Twitter brain has done is that like when 0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:28.800 you when you talk about reaching out and talking to 0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:31.480 people who you know don't agree with you, aren't aren't 0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:35.680 on your side ideologically, there's folks who will kind of assume, like, oh, 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:37.680 so you're saying I should like try to be friendly 0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:39.240 with people who would have murder me. Like, no, I'm 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:40.840 not saying that. I'm not saying that like, as a 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:42.800 trans person or black person, you should go talk to 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:48.440 um a militant anti LGBT activist or a fucking klansman 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.360 or something. I'm saying that, like, that's not within the 0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:53.840 broad I'm saying what you need to recognize. But what 0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:57.160 I think is important to recognize, especially if you're when 0:30:57.160 --> 0:30:59.960 we talk about like post you know, collapse or whatever, 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:03.760 is that within broad political tendency. So I'm not talking 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:08.040 about like fascist or whatever, but I'm talking about like liberal, conservative, progressive, 0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:12.600 very broad political tendencies. You have roughly the same percentage 0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:15.440 of people who are ship. So in an anarchist group, 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:17.760 the amount of people who are shitty is going to 0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:20.200 be similar to the amount of the general population that 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:23.000 are shitty. It's the same with every political tendency. But 0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.880 the corollary to that is, again, within broad tendencies, you'll 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:28.560 find roughly the same amount of people who are basically 0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:32.040 rad and maybe yeah there's some they have their brain 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.240 got poisoned with dis info and they believe some stupid 0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:37.320 shit and they vote like an asshole. But you know, 0:31:37.760 --> 0:31:40.320 they'll stop their car if they see someone in an accident, 0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:42.200 and they keep a fucking medical kit in their bag, 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:44.520 and you know there that it's the it's the it's 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:46.440 the ship that you know. I talk a lot about this, 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:49.520 the stabbing on the Portland Max train. Well, the two 0:31:49.600 --> 0:31:55.480 people who who died confronting that asshole um where a 0:31:55.800 --> 0:32:00.640 Republican retired veteran and a far left social justice activists, 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:03.080 and they both you know, put their bodies on the lines. 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.920 I think that like when we talk about like being 0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:10.320 willing to kind of talk with people who are who 0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:14.080 are not on the same ideological boat as you, that's 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:16.680 that's what I mean, Not you should make nice with 0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:20.200 the people who want to exterminate you, Like fuck those people. Yeah, 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:23.040 because the thing you're looking for, the thing I'm looking 0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:26.360 for is the Republican who's going to, hopefully, instead of 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:30.479 dying to saw alongside me, successfully defeat the you know, 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:34.239 actual far right person. But yeah, yeah, totally, And and 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.960 I think that that actually is part of the It's 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:39.680 not always the answer for every person who's isolated, right, 0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.440 everyone who's socially isolated, but it is part of it. 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:44.600 If you're trying to organize with people where you say 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:48.880 you're the only leftist or the only anarchist in your area, 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:51.200 then maybe you don't start. And this is actually funny. 0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:54.520 I'm very into being very public about my political ideology 0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:56.560 so that people know what bias is UM coming into 0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.400 things with. But but maybe you don't start your rural 0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:02.160 mutuoid project calling it the rural mutu Aid project, or 0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:05.240 maybe you do, and maybe you you just start doing 0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:07.040 it and you find people who are willing to have 0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:11.239 the same goals and means as you, and and I 0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:13.720 think you can do alongside of that, you can also 0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:15.800 just be really public about what you believe. I mean, 0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:17.920 you know, UM Again, as an anarchist, I end up 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:21.200 working with like church groups and things that I don't 0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:23.720 necessarily agree with on a lot of a lot of things. 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.240 But they're not mad when I'm like, oh I'm an anarchist. 0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:32.320 They're just like, huh, okay, I'm a church person or 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:35.640 what you know, and like, okay, I'm not. I don't 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:38.120 expect different of them, and they don't expect different of me. 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:40.160 And we we know what we have in common and 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:41.920 what we don't to a certain degree, and then we 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:44.240 work on what we have in common and so airing 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:46.479 and so this is both true if you're within the 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:48.400 movement and you're hoping to try and solve this problem 0:33:48.440 --> 0:33:50.560 for other people. But I also think it's going to 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:53.640 be true for people who are trying to build things 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:55.520 in areas where they don't have, where they don't feel 0:33:55.520 --> 0:33:57.640 like the part of something larger is airing on the 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:00.400 side of inclusion versus exclusion and not And like you're 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:02.280 talking about, it's about airing on the side of not 0:34:02.720 --> 0:34:05.560 always include everyone, not always committing to a hard and 0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:09.880 fast rule. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, be be open to 0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:12.160 the fact that people can surprise you in ways that 0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:17.600 aren't terrifying. Yeah. Also, because you get terrified enough by 0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:19.399 enough like people who you think are on your side 0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:21.799 that you're like, oh, yeah, I'm sad you all don't 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:25.799 do the ad pivots in this show, because you can 0:34:25.840 --> 0:34:29.799 do it. We can do it, we can we can 0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:32.040 cut it in during one of the long awkward pauses. 0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:35.160 Go for it, and we'll keep all this up to 0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:38.520 it in, but we'll actually cut the actual so you'll 0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:40.880 hear it. It's like Finnigan's Wake. You're going to hear 0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:44.200 it out of order, okay, and I hopefully you all 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:45.640 be able to figure out the second half of it, 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:47.479 but the first the first half is anyone who claims 0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:51.480 to have all the answers is selling you something? Oh 0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:54.120 uh huh yeah, oh oh you know who else is 0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:59.560 selling you something? Is it the ADSs go listen to 0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:02.640 the guy Geico or or Jesus. We've had some bad 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:06.600 ones lately. Um, there's that s os Cuba show that 0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:11.560 sounds we're rough. Uh. There was that one that was 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:13.880 just like God. It was just like, there's something the 0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:18.640 concept of gus we are sponsored by God. I think 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.239 I've gotten like Walmart and McDonald's on your show before. 0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:27.879 Remember that's the people's food. Oh yeah, organized actually try 0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:32.560 to organize around the Walmart. That could be very so Anyway, 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:36.879 here's ads. If someone is trying to start something new 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:40.120 inside in one of these more secluded areas and like 0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.680 they have decided like yeah, I'm willing to do something, 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:46.440 I'm willing to actually just like start it. How how 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:49.360 would you recommend they try to figure out what some 0:35:49.440 --> 0:35:52.360 of the like biggest needs of the community are that 0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:55.000 they can actually tackle. Like, how how does someone find 0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:58.279 out what to do with their mutual late because they 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.560 can like commit like, yeah, I can do something around supplies, 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.319 something around this, you know whatever. Really, how does one 0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.480 try to actually gauge what is important try to tackle? 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:09.759 I guess it depends on whether you feel like you're 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:14.200 totally Like if in my head, if I'm totally inside 0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:18.319 Annissie community but an area, right, I probably kind of 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:21.520 know because I'm also experiencing whatever the thing is. But 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:24.360 if I'm if I'm a little bit detached from it, 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:26.600 then I do need to like do kind of you know. 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:29.080 The sort of traditional method is I think it's called 0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:31.880 listening projects. I've never actually personally done a listening project. 0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:34.520 I've been around many people who do. Where you basically 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:37.879 like sometimes you go door to door and you're like, hey, 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:39.799 what's up, Like what do you need? Like what's going on? 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:42.520 You know? Um? But like say, for example, in the 0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.360 area that I live, there is a a rural organizing 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:47.840 It's not the actual Rural Organizing project, which is a 0:36:47.840 --> 0:36:51.440 specific structure, but there is a rural mutual aid group 0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:55.000 in the largely red area that I live in that's 0:36:55.200 --> 0:37:00.640 run by by leftists and they I think it largely 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:03.360 they did a lot of like firewood delivery, for example, 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:05.760 because a lot of the areas around here are heated 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:07.640 by wood stoves, and you have a lot of poverty 0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:10.680 in rural areas. And of course poverty looks very different 0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:13.879 in rural areas versus urban areas. And you know, one 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:17.640 of the advantages of being rural poor. There's many disadvantages, 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:21.280 like lack of access to certain types of services, right, um, 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:24.480 But one of the sometimes advantages of rural poverty, as 0:37:24.560 --> 0:37:28.319 I understand it, I'm not specifically an expert, um, is 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:31.560 do you have space? Right, you just don't have stuff 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:34.240 for money, and so you can have stuff if people 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:36.440 give you stuff, so you can like story your firewood 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:39.920 and so. And then also because it's this very specific 0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:42.239 tangible thing, people can get really excited about, like, oh, 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:45.560 I can chop firewood, or maybe even I can't chop 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:47.600 firewood because my legs busted because I work in the 0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:50.080 paper mill or whatever. But I can. But I got 0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:52.680 a trailer on my truck, you know, um, and I 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:54.959 can haul that. And people get really excited when there's 0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:58.239 like things that they specifically are good at, especially things 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:00.320 that I kind of have alienated them from other people, 0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:03.480 but they're that they're good at that they can then 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:09.399 participate in and so, which isn't totally answer your question, 0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:11.719 but I would say, if anyone specifically is in a 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:13.879 rural situation I was looking to start a mutual a group, 0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:17.200 look at the Rural Organizing Project. I don't believe that 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.120 they specifically do rural mutual aid organizing, but they talk 0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:23.000 a lot about what it means to be an organizer 0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:25.799 within areas that are largely controlled by the far right, 0:38:25.920 --> 0:38:28.759 but are not. It's not like the people are all 0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:31.759 far right. They're just controlled by the far right, you know. Yeah, 0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:34.520 the people actually there, once you talk to them, might 0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:38.920 actually be a lot more reasonable than like the media 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.879 influencers who are part of this you know, same thing. Yeah, 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.080 and it is. It is one of those things. This 0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:46.160 is a topic we're drifting too. But it's when we 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.279 drift to regularly on this show, we're like, when I 0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:54.120 talk with conservatives, it's it's not uncommon that I can 0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:58.160 without especially if I don't start by mentioning anarchy, I 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.799 can get them to agree to a lot of the 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.399 things I believe, which is like, yeah, maybe people don't 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:06.040 need to be governed. Maybe that doesn't work out good. 0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:09.680 Maybe politicians are corrupt and should have less power, and 0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:12.239 like that doesn't mean that you're gonna you're gonna get 0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:15.759 them on the barricades with you, um, because any productive 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:18.960 kind of relationship starts from like a base of shared 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:24.040 interests and it's not a useless endeavor to engage in 0:39:24.239 --> 0:39:26.799 kind of trying to subtly. You know, if you if 0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:30.359 you feel out people around you who are ideologically not 0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:35.520 particularly similar to you, but also decent people, um, you 0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:39.480 can kind of try and work in some some something 0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:42.040 you've not not just some common ground, but you can 0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:44.359 try and get them to see that they agree with 0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:46.440 you one more than they think, um, and that that 0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:49.439 has an effect of changing the way people think about 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.920 the world. It really does. Yeah, and you but you 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:56.160 also have to go into it open to yes. Maybe 0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:57.800 maybe it's not going to change your opinion about the 0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:00.759 way the economy should be structured or the way that works, right, 0:40:01.160 --> 0:40:03.680 but you know, you definitely have to go into it 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:08.279 with a I can now understand why you drive a 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:10.719 big pickup truck that burns a lot of gas or 0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:16.600 whatever whatever thing. You might be coming into it thinking yeah, 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:20.040 or at least it might help you understand why they 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:23.839 believe or do certain things outside of you know, Dave 0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:27.239 Reuben broke their brain because they got on YouTube at 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:29.480 the wrong time. I don't know, Margaret, did you have 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:32.480 anything else you wanted to really get into. I guess to. 0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:34.080 One of the other questions that you all brought up 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:36.440 was about preparedness, like maybe kind of almost in the 0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:39.759 inverse situation where let's say that you live in a 0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:43.640 small apartment and you want to be prepared and in 0:40:43.640 --> 0:40:46.399 which case maybe you have better access to community. Maybe 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:47.759 you don't write a lot of people who live in 0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:50.640 the city are just as isolated socially as people elsewhere, 0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:53.600 But at least you kind of have like there's a 0:40:53.680 --> 0:40:57.479 little bit more easy access to ways to break out 0:40:57.560 --> 0:40:59.800 of certain types of isolation if you put work into it, 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:02.480 because there's more likely to be groups around that are 0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:05.880 that are public that you can go interface with. UM. 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:08.040 But in terms of like actual preparedness, you have the 0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:10.560 inverse problem, right of if you live rural you might 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.040 have room to store beans and rice, and if you 0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:16.880 live in the city, you might not write UM. But 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:19.319 I I will say it's the other thing that I 0:41:19.360 --> 0:41:21.960 find people the two things that people talk to me 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.799 about I think you all run into. Also is that 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:27.799 people are either I don't have any community or I 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:31.200 don't have any money in space. Yeah. And so if 0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:33.719 you don't have any money in space, I mean, I 0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:35.600 mean in some ways, it's like, well, maybe your focus 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:39.160 isn't like stockpiling stuff. Stockpiling and stuff is like the 0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:43.600 single most overrated part of individual or community preparedness. Um. 0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:46.520 I mean I do it, but you know it's because 0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:52.080 I M my brain works that way. Um. But also 0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.280 the level of like stuff that you might be looking 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:57.719 for might be a lot less than like, like you know, 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:00.279 it's like prepper media is filled with like here's how 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:04.799 to build a bunker under your pool, And I'm like, what, Yeah, 0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:08.520 there's there's so many levels I mean, somebody other things 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:12.640 that you should be doing before you go to that stitch. Yeah. Yeah, 0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:13.759 I mean, like, don't get me wrong, if I had 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:15.719 a pool, I'd be stoked, And if I had absolutely 0:42:16.120 --> 0:42:20.440 under it, I'd be even more stoked. I'd be so happy. Yeah. 0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:22.640 But but you know what it's like, it's the first 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:27.200 five gallon bucket of like dried food you store is 0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:31.399 far and away more important than the tent, right, and like, 0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:36.319 so just having a five gallon jerry canful of water 0:42:36.600 --> 0:42:38.040 so that you're like, you know what, if the water 0:42:38.080 --> 0:42:40.320 turns off or we have a boil advisory, which happens 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:45.320 all the time, I'm good for a couple of days, right, 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:48.080 because most of the time people think about preparedness as like, 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:50.680 I'm preparing for the end times, and usually what it 0:42:50.760 --> 0:42:53.280 is is the end times are real slow and chunky 0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:57.759 and crumbles, that's the word, um. And so you're just 0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:00.239 really looking to like smooth out interruptions and all that 0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:03.000 can be done very cheaply and honestly, when when you 0:43:03.040 --> 0:43:05.720 start storing your fifth five gallon jerry can of water, 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:08.160 you're not storying it for you anymore. You're storying it 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:10.640 for your neighbor. Yeah. Yeah, and that's good, but not 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:14.960 exactly not the first step, you know. Yeah, it's better 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:17.439 to prepare for if you have like a week's worth 0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:19.439 of power outages or a week's worth of the water 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.520 not working, right, And those are more incremental steps, because 0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:24.520 we're not just gonna drop off and have no water 0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:27.640 forever starting in a month, right, probably not, but we 0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:32.360 mean very likely there's gonna be there's enough remaining systems 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:34.799 that that they want to fix it. You know, it's 0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:37.879 more likely that some some disasters gonna happen that we're 0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:40.880 gonna have, you know, a week worth of stuff gone, 0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:44.080 you know, and that's the thing that's actually more more 0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:51.160 reasonable to prep for. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, well, Margaret, 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:54.000 where can? Where can the good people and hopefully not 0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:57.520 the bad people, but statistically some of them will suck 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:02.279 find you? Um, good people can find me on I 0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:04.479 have a podcast called Like the World Is Dying, which 0:44:04.480 --> 0:44:06.239 they can listen to you on if they would like, 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:11.040 and it's about individual community preparedness. I also am on 0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:14.239 Twitter way too much, at Magpie kill Joy, Instagram, at 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:18.000 Margaret Killjoy, my websites Birds before the Storm dot net 0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:20.160 or Margaret Killjoy dot com. And that has like a 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.520 list of all the books that I have out. And 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:25.359 I have a new book, an old book being reissued 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:28.400 that is coming out in November from a K Press. 0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:30.799 The book is called a Country of Ghosts and it's 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:33.040 an anarchist utopian book because I was sick of people 0:44:33.080 --> 0:44:35.239 being like, but how would an anarchist society work? And 0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:36.479 I was like, you know what, I wrote a book, 0:44:37.320 --> 0:44:40.480 damn straight. Um it also has a plot, so it's 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:48.359 not fancy kind of boogie with yours. If you write 0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:52.720 a plot, you get the wall. No plot allowed, only 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:56.560 post structural literature. Well, okay, so this has actually happened 0:44:56.600 --> 0:45:03.560 to anarchist fiction writers before U so much. Buda was 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:08.759 this anarchist fiction writer. Um oh, I can't remember where 0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:12.120 from I'm gonna this is terribly embarrassing. But he moved 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:17.200 to England from a colonized African country. Um, yeah, what 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.560 did Rhodesia become? This is the most embarrassing. Oh it 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:23.440 became a Zimbabwe, right, okay, yeah, so yeah, so he 0:45:23.480 --> 0:45:26.360 was from there and then everyone and he moved to 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:28.640 London until he realized that they're a bunch of racists 0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:31.200 and he would like breaksh it at awards ceremonies and 0:45:31.200 --> 0:45:33.600 then go back home. But when he was a squatter 0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:35.640 for a while in the eighties, but he wasn't writing 0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:40.840 in the proper post colonial like Marxist realist tradition, because 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:44.239 instead he was writing postmodern fiction, which is stuck getting 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:47.920 and terrible. So he just like was like I don't care, 0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:52.960 and so he's great. That is anyway. I love to 0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:59.600 see it. Um, that's the episode. That's the episode, Go 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:07.719 out and right, post modern jump on a train. That yeah, 0:46:07.920 --> 0:46:10.160 probably also a bad idea. I talked to somebody who 0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:22.719 lost their legs doing that once. Anyway, Episodes over. I'm 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:25.439 Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair 0:46:25.440 --> 0:46:28.720 Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:32.239 division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm Dr 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:35.840 adding A Rucar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:39.160 an expertise and the science of stress, resilience, mental health, 0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:42.960 and burnout. We're so excited to share our podcast Time Out, 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:46.959 a production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine. We're 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:49.880 uncovering why society makes it so hard for women to 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.600 treat their time with the value it deserves. So take 0:46:52.680 --> 0:46:55.920 this time out with us. Listen to Time Out, a 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:59.919 fair Play podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:04.600 or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys. I'm 0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:06.520 a Shop Bloud and I am Troy Millions and we 0:47:06.600 --> 0:47:08.920 are the host of the Earnier Leisure podcast, where we 0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:12.600 break down business models and examine the latest trans and finance. 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:14.719 We hold court and have exclusive interviews with some of 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:17.439 the biggest names of business, sport, and entertainment, from DJ 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:20.239 Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross and Shaquille O'Neil. I 0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:22.959 mean our alumni lists expansive. Listen in as our guests 0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:26.200 reveal their business models, hardships and triumphs and their respective fields. 0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:28.160 The knowledge is in death and the questions are always 0:47:28.200 --> 0:47:30.719 delivered from your standpoint. We want to know what you 0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:33.520 want to know. We talk to the legends of business, 0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:36.239 sports and entertainment about how they got their start and 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:38.840 most importantly, how they make their money. Earni a Leisia 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.319 is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want 0:47:41.320 --> 0:47:43.680 to learn about the real estate game, unclears, how the 0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:46.360 stock market works? We got you Interested in starting a 0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:48.959 truck and company or vending machine business? Not really sure 0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:52.040 about how taxes or credit work. We got it all covered. 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:55.200 The Earnier Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnie 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:58.600 Leisure on the Black Effect Podcast Network, I Heart Radio, app, 0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:06.880 Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look for 0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:10.400 your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. 0:48:10.800 --> 0:48:13.879 It's a storybook world for them. You look and see 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:16.880 a tree, they see the wrinkled face of a wizard 0:48:17.040 --> 0:48:20.920 with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasuring pebbles, 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:24.080 they see a windy path that could lead to adventure, 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:28.880 and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? 0:48:29.280 --> 0:48:32.080 Find a forest near you and start exploring and discover 0:48:32.160 --> 0:48:34.440 the forest dot org brought to you by the United 0:48:34.440 --> 0:48:43.680 States Forest Service and the ad Council. Welcome this is 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:47.319 it could happen here daily. Uh. This week, we are 0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:51.279 focusing on different ways to actually start doing things. You know, 0:48:51.320 --> 0:48:54.520 we've talked a lot about ideas that we like, you know, 0:48:54.600 --> 0:48:58.360 made some broad recommendations um and you know, had people 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:00.919 on to give specific insights and to you know, different things. 0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:04.560 But we're trying to focus this week and then you 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:06.880 know more in the future. Is like, if you're brand 0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:09.040 new to this sort of thing, how to actually start 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.040 doing stuff. And one of the things we talked about 0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:14.200 a lot is a lot almost everyone we've interviewed has 0:49:14.239 --> 0:49:17.680 mentioned this at some point, that trying to get more 0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:22.319 active in the things you're consuming and the things that 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:24.319 you're eating. And one of the ways to do that 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:28.600 is by just literally growing your own food. I went 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:31.920 when I was growing up, I mean my grandparents operate, 0:49:32.480 --> 0:49:34.359 I mean like they stopped right like like like like 0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:37.040 a large, large farm. Now they operate kind of like 0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:39.960 a farm that just like feeds them. So whenever I'm 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.960 at my grandparents in Canada, usually we you know, we 0:49:43.040 --> 0:49:44.799 just eat all the food they grow, whether that be 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:48.160 like produce. Um. They also do like their own hunting. 0:49:48.239 --> 0:49:51.200 They make their own sausage, like you know, they preserve meats. 0:49:51.600 --> 0:49:54.120 So like, I kind of grew up around this type 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:58.640 of thing because just how self reliant some of my 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:01.759 family is. But not everyone may have this kind of background, 0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:03.839 and so you know, this idea of growing your own 0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:07.759 food can feel maybe a little bit daunting. Um. And 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:10.520 to help us talk about food and then eventually soil 0:50:10.600 --> 0:50:14.439 and other kind of things, I have invited a guest 0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:18.960 on from another kind of podcast in this that operates 0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:22.560 in the same rough, rough framework, I would say probably 0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:25.960 how to how to kind of slowly improve improve the world? 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:29.879 Um uh do I don't explain who you are and 0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:33.160 what's your what's your what your project is? Sure? So 0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:36.160 my name is Andy. I'm the post of the Poor 0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:40.800 Pole's Almanac. We're a podcast that's focused on thinking about 0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:43.600 after collaps how do we things like climate change and 0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:46.640 collaps impact things like food systems, and what can we 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:52.680 do today to prepare for what's coming in the future. Yeah, 0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:56.200 I feel like it's not not a coincidence that all 0:50:56.239 --> 0:51:01.360 of these different kind of projects are getting more popular 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:03.600 at the same time because we're looking at the world 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:07.080 and being like, huh, this doesn't seem very sustainable, so 0:51:07.560 --> 0:51:09.799 we better we better start figuring out what to do 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:14.600 with all these systems kind of slowly, you know, start 0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:17.399 losing parts. I want to talk about kind of food today. 0:51:17.440 --> 0:51:20.120 I want to want to maybe branch off into like 0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:24.120 a few different directions. Branch that's a plant plant plant 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:28.440 pun um, what a branch off of a few different 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:30.640 directions both like, you know, what do you do if 0:51:30.640 --> 0:51:32.520 you have like your own house and yard, or maybe 0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:34.920 you're like more rule you have lots of space, and 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.000 then also the kind of the inverse of like let's 0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:38.600 say you lived in, like I don't know, a cramped 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.240 city apartment, different things that you can do. Let's probably 0:51:41.280 --> 0:51:43.440 start with like the rule just to like give a 0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:46.239 you know, a more like base background on you know, 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:48.440 you have more of like a standard set up for 0:51:48.520 --> 0:51:52.560 what you're able to do. If someone's never grown anything before, 0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:55.480 they've never like maybe they've had like one house plant, 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:58.080 but like they've never grown anything. What what do you 0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:00.840 think is the best first like preparation and steps before 0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:04.200 you actually, you know, go and start buying seeds and stuff. Sure, 0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:07.600 so when it comes to growing food, it's really not 0:52:07.719 --> 0:52:11.040 that complicated. Chances are if you have a front yard 0:52:11.040 --> 0:52:14.320 we're talking about someplace that's pretty rural, assuming the climate 0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:17.319 is in someplace super dry, you're generally going to be 0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:21.240 thinking about growing food someplace where grass probably already grows. 0:52:21.920 --> 0:52:24.000 So if grass is already growing there, you know things 0:52:24.080 --> 0:52:27.680 can grow there. And really that's that's as simple as 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:31.160 it can be. It can be more complicated. We can 0:52:31.200 --> 0:52:34.560 start talking about things like soil pH and nutrients and 0:52:34.600 --> 0:52:37.000 all of these other things, but really, when it comes 0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:38.560 down to it, if you put a seed in the 0:52:38.600 --> 0:52:40.880 ground and the temperature is not too warm or cold, 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:43.719 and it gets rained but not too much rain, the 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:47.880 plant's going to grow. And if you've got some say 0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:49.719 a couple of acres, and you want to cut out 0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:52.719 a little section of it to grow some food, uh, 0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:56.200 that's that's as simple as it really can be. And 0:52:56.320 --> 0:52:59.160 you can go to whatever store and buy seeds. So 0:52:59.320 --> 0:53:01.960 like that that a good place to start. And obviously 0:53:02.000 --> 0:53:03.840 depending on where you live, you want to think about 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:06.960 things like lead in the in the soil if you 0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:09.600 live someplace near an old house, or maybe if you're 0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:12.520 near some place where there was manufacturing. And one of 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:14.000 the things to keep in mind is that a lot 0:53:14.040 --> 0:53:17.399 of older settlements, even if there isn't a factory there now, 0:53:18.320 --> 0:53:22.520 it's very possible there was a factory years ago, it's 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:24.719 been demoed and you never even knew it was there. 0:53:25.120 --> 0:53:27.080 So it's really important if you do live in someplace 0:53:27.120 --> 0:53:30.560 that has that manufacturing background or an old house to 0:53:30.640 --> 0:53:32.920 really check for things like lead in the soil because 0:53:33.200 --> 0:53:37.400 that can be really dangerous. And there's yeah, very accessible 0:53:37.520 --> 0:53:42.239 like soil testing kits available that star is on online. Okay, yeah, 0:53:42.239 --> 0:53:44.600 it's like I think fifteen dollars. You can have a 0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:47.480 soil sample taken and you can find out everything that's 0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:51.200 in it, like the pH and you know if it's 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:54.360 too acidic and things like that. So yeah, you you 0:53:54.400 --> 0:53:56.800 figure out you wanna you want to start growing stuff, 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:58.560 you have you have some space, whether it be like 0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:00.759 a front yard or maybe like even like an open 0:54:00.800 --> 0:54:04.200 field if you're lucky, Um, what kind of what kind 0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:06.799 of stuff do you think? You know? Should I just 0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:09.919 jump in and buy any kind of seed that looks fun, 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:12.680 or should I like start with specific things I don't know. 0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:14.920 It's like if I really like potatoes, or just go 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:17.560 to potatoes, If I really like cauliflowers, just to cauliflower. 0:54:17.920 --> 0:54:20.640 What's kind of the if I'm brand new, what's the 0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:23.719 different things that would be worth first drawing out? So 0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:27.719 generally speaking, you really want to think about what your 0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:30.600 climate is, and I think that's one of the things 0:54:30.640 --> 0:54:32.080 that gets missed a lot of times as you want 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:33.720 to grow things. So like I live in New England, 0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:38.160 growing say watermelon is really a challenge in a lot 0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:40.120 of ways because you have to think about the length 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:42.160 of my season versus the length it takes for a 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:46.120 watermelon to be a full sized fruit for you to eat. So, 0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:48.640 depending on where you live, the one thing you need 0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:50.799 to keep in mind is what that length of your 0:54:50.840 --> 0:54:53.680 season is. Now, to get back to the main subject 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:56.719 of the podcast, talking about things like climate change and collapse, 0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:01.400 that season is changing rapidly right now. We're adding days, 0:55:01.440 --> 0:55:04.800 so the seasons are getting longer, but also we're having 0:55:04.840 --> 0:55:08.799 weird cold snaps later and later into spring, so what 0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:12.280 might have been a traditional season no longer really applies anymore. 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.319 So if you're thinking about this is your first year, 0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:17.680 you don't want to grow anything that might be right 0:55:17.719 --> 0:55:21.239 at the cusp of um being in your season. Or 0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:23.319 you don't want to start a plant inside and then 0:55:23.400 --> 0:55:25.400 have to move it outside and you have to know 0:55:25.440 --> 0:55:27.040 whether or not it has a tap root and all 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:29.240 these other things to make sure that you don't damage 0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:31.880 the plant. Then you definitely want to grow something with 0:55:31.880 --> 0:55:39.280 a shorter season, things like um. Cold weather plants, lettuces, broccolis, cauliflowers, 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:42.600 things like that will generally do pretty good in short seasons, 0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:46.440 but they don't really do well in really warm climates. 0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.279 So if you're in say Florida, it's gonna be really 0:55:49.280 --> 0:55:52.480 difficult um. But that that's kind of how you want 0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:54.839 to start thinking about those processes. Learning what the cold 0:55:54.880 --> 0:55:58.160 season plants are, what the warm season plants are, where 0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:00.480 you fit in in terms of the zone that you 0:56:00.520 --> 0:56:03.400 live within, and again starting to think about, okay, the 0:56:03.440 --> 0:56:05.720 last couple of years, when did we get the last frost, 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:08.920 Because it's not what it might say ten years ago 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:12.280 is your average last frost. Those days are pretty much gone. 0:56:12.680 --> 0:56:15.200 I know here in Portland we're currently growing a lot 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:18.399 of potatoes and that's been that's been kind of our 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:22.359 our our big haul. Also, tomatoes did very good this year, 0:56:22.600 --> 0:56:27.080 particularly because of our big heat domes they got we got. 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:29.080 The tomatoes did so much better than what they what 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:33.080 they usually do. We've like canned so many tomatoes just 0:56:33.120 --> 0:56:35.200 because we just we have so many more than what 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:37.880 we're used to. That if I do find that interesting 0:56:37.960 --> 0:56:42.279 being like, you know, climate change obviously being generally a 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:45.600 net bad, but you know, in some cases for growing, 0:56:45.800 --> 0:56:48.440 it's gonna make certain crops easier to grow, but you know, 0:56:48.440 --> 0:56:50.920 other crops will be harder to grow. It's something I 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:53.160 wanted to talk more about in the first five heavily 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:56.200 scripted It could happen here season two episodes. It's like, 0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:59.839 particularly how different growing regions are going to shift up 0:56:59.840 --> 0:57:01.920 and how like, you know, Canada, for instance, is going 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:05.799 to have a lot more agriculture in the next years 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:09.520 just because so many, so many climates are slowly inching upwards. 0:57:09.520 --> 0:57:11.279 But you know, even in places like Georgia and other 0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:14.520 places where different. If we know specific plants are growing, 0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:16.520 all that stuff is going to be changing. Obviously, this 0:57:16.640 --> 0:57:19.920 is affecting coffee and how we're getting less and less 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.600 space and land that's actually able to grow coffee because 0:57:24.600 --> 0:57:27.640 basically plants, you know, growers have to move their plants 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:29.520 up a mountain every year in order to make the 0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:31.720 coffee actually work, which is why we're it's gonna We're 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:34.440 just gonna run up a space. Um So yeah, that 0:57:34.560 --> 0:57:38.720 is obviously the more negative sides of things and California 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:41.960 lack of rain, water and just and just lack of rain. 0:57:42.040 --> 0:57:45.200 Yeah absolutely, rain, yeah, absolutely, And that brings up a 0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:48.080 really important point that you know, you're talking about moving 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:51.000 the coffee trees further and further up a mountain as 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:56.480 the areas that are considered prime agricultural areas moves north 0:57:56.560 --> 0:57:59.840 for us, you have to think about the infrastructural challenges 0:57:59.880 --> 0:58:02.439 that brings. So it's not just you're going to grow 0:58:02.520 --> 0:58:05.440 the crops in one place, but the infrastructure, the trains, 0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:08.600 all these different things don't exist in the places where 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:12.480 we'll be able to grow those foods. So speaking of 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:14.840 something you know around that rough kind of idea is 0:58:14.880 --> 0:58:17.840 like if someone's never never done this before. They're out 0:58:17.840 --> 0:58:22.000 to go get stuff. Where would you where would someone 0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:24.160 like that find seeds? Um, Let's say that they don't. 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:27.560 Let's say they don't use the internet's tons um whereabouts 0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:29.800 where you think they'll go and get cauliflower seeds or 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:31.480 carrot seeds if they if they want to start doing 0:58:31.480 --> 0:58:34.920 this stuff. Yeah, So there's a bunch of different growers 0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:37.400 that offer seeds. And one of the things to keep 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:40.120 in mind with annuals is that it does make sense 0:58:40.160 --> 0:58:43.360 if you can to buy them locally, because what within 0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:47.320 a couple of generations, plants will start evolving towards local conditions. 0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:50.600 It's it's really beneficial, especially with like I said, with 0:58:50.640 --> 0:58:53.920 climate change, to start thinking about how can we integrate 0:58:54.040 --> 0:58:57.400 our food systems into the ecological conditions where we live, 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:00.520 and that ecology includes the climate. So we have to 0:59:00.520 --> 0:59:04.520 continuously more thoughtfully start thinking about these things and how 0:59:04.520 --> 0:59:06.800 we grow food and where those foods come from in 0:59:06.880 --> 0:59:09.240 order to really be able to deal with and mitigate 0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:12.720 the effects of climate change. So a great resources Johnny's 0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:15.480 Seed they do a lot of really good work and 0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:19.520 there they have good quality stuff and there's a bunch 0:59:19.520 --> 0:59:21.479 of seed companies out there that have done some really 0:59:21.640 --> 0:59:25.160 problematic stuff that I won't go into or talk about. 0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:27.960 But they're these guys, as far as I'm aware, are 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:32.760 pretty good. So I would definitely recommend them. Awesome. Yeah, 0:59:32.760 --> 0:59:35.560 their website is just Johnny Seeds dot com, just for 0:59:35.600 --> 0:59:38.640 everyone who's looking at up at Johnny with a Y. 0:59:38.760 --> 0:59:44.280 Good for Johnny with a Y. Great. All right. Let's now, 0:59:44.360 --> 0:59:48.360 let's say someone lives in a downtown apartment in a 0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:51.520 metropolitan area. They don't have immediate access to you know, 0:59:51.840 --> 0:59:56.040 tons of dirt or you know, grass, but they want 0:59:56.080 --> 0:59:58.680 to start kind of growing some stuff. If if you 0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:01.880 were in that position, would you start doing and to that, 1:00:02.000 --> 1:00:04.800 I want to to part that that would be somebody 1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:07.280 with a balcony where they have access to like even 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:11.240 like a little patti area or those and then without Yeah, sure, 1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:13.840 So there's a bunch of different things you can do. 1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:17.680 Starting with if you have a balcony, you can start 1:00:17.680 --> 1:00:21.240 thinking about getting pots, filling them up with soil, amending 1:00:21.240 --> 1:00:24.280 that soil as needed as you add plants, and again 1:00:24.760 --> 1:00:27.400 the general rule is to think about how big a 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:29.800 plant gets, and how big a plant gets is how 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:31.800 big its root system is going to get I mean, 1:00:31.800 --> 1:00:34.560 that's not accurate by any means, but it's just a 1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:37.040 good rule of thumb to think about as you're doing 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:40.200 something like this, and you know, if you have a 1:00:40.240 --> 1:00:42.480 tiny pot, then something that gets big is not going 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:44.840 to work. It might be better for a lettuce or whatever. 1:00:45.400 --> 1:00:47.200 And there's a bunch of different places you can look 1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:50.200 online for how to grow things on balconies and things 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:53.080 like that. You can also, and this is really dependent 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:56.320 on money, is start thinking about things like grow lights, 1:00:56.360 --> 1:00:59.120 which really are not that complicated once you start learning 1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:02.520 a bit about them, hydroponics which comes with their own 1:01:02.600 --> 1:01:05.200 challenges because at the end of the day, while it's 1:01:05.240 --> 1:01:06.840 nice to be able to grow food in your house, 1:01:07.160 --> 1:01:11.240 you're still relying on extractive processes. So you know your 1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:14.960 nutrients are coming from fossil fuel essentially, So that's just 1:01:15.040 --> 1:01:17.600 something to be aware of. It's probably still better than 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:20.640 the alternative of buying food on the shelf, but it 1:01:20.760 --> 1:01:23.080 is something to be aware of in that process that 1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:27.480 it's not really a sustainable quote unquote practice. Got it? 1:01:27.840 --> 1:01:30.760 And what are some of the go toos for a 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:33.440 balcony garden that you would recommend for people that are 1:01:33.440 --> 1:01:37.240 just starting out. Definitely, those leafy greens are a good 1:01:37.240 --> 1:01:40.480 place to start. They grow small, they have smaller roots systems. 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:44.080 Most times, things like lettuces don't need a ton of 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:47.200 sun to grow super well. As long as they get 1:01:47.200 --> 1:01:49.400 a decent amount, they'll be fine. They're not like a 1:01:49.440 --> 1:01:52.880 tomato that's gonna like be desperately looking for that that 1:01:53.040 --> 1:01:57.040 sun in that energy. So those smaller greens are generally 1:01:57.080 --> 1:02:01.160 a better option, right. Yeah, I was able to grow 1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:04.200 kale and like a pot this of this winter and 1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:07.560 it was great. Yeah, kale is a great one here 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:09.880 in New England. It's really nice because you can grow 1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:12.240 it under glass during the winter, so even if you 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:14.840 have a cold spell, it will stay just warm enough 1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:19.160 to make it pretty much throughout the winter. All right, Now, 1:02:19.320 --> 1:02:22.280 I have no balcony. I only have, you know, two 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:25.160 small windows, you know I have. I have like a 1:02:25.200 --> 1:02:26.880 counter and stuff, you know, I can like can set 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:31.040 up stuff, but I do not have tons of outdoor access. 1:02:31.080 --> 1:02:34.400 But I would like to stop buying dill every time 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:36.000 I go to the store because I use it in 1:02:36.080 --> 1:02:39.160 my homemade ranch dressing. Now, can I just buy those 1:02:39.200 --> 1:02:42.480 like pre pre potted stuff and just water them or 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:44.320 kind of like if if, if, if I want to 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:46.200 get more in depth, what are they you know, some 1:02:46.280 --> 1:02:50.160 things that are beyond that, but not you know, making this, 1:02:50.320 --> 1:02:53.880 you know, making this giant set up, so you could 1:02:53.920 --> 1:02:59.800 be creative and do something that's less than eagle. And 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:04.360 there's this practice known as gorilla gardening. I was I 1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:07.920 was gonna mention girly grilla gardening soon. Yeah. Sure, So 1:03:08.120 --> 1:03:10.680 this is like something that works really well, and there's 1:03:10.680 --> 1:03:12.680 a bunch of different ways you can do it, and 1:03:12.720 --> 1:03:15.720 it really depends on your local conditions and what can 1:03:15.800 --> 1:03:17.680 grow out in the wild and needs a lot of 1:03:17.680 --> 1:03:21.320 maintenance and what doesn't. And I don't know the Pacific 1:03:21.360 --> 1:03:24.120 Northwest that well, but it is warm enough that I 1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:26.040 think Bill would probably do fine, and it is wet 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:28.680 enough that Bill would probably do fine. So you could 1:03:28.760 --> 1:03:31.640 just go anywhere where there's green space that nobody checks 1:03:31.680 --> 1:03:34.880 things and just drop some plants in. You could start 1:03:34.920 --> 1:03:37.240 seedlings in your house and bring them where you want 1:03:37.240 --> 1:03:39.680 to harvest it later, and it's on your walk to 1:03:39.760 --> 1:03:42.880 work or where you get coffee or whatever. Drop it 1:03:42.880 --> 1:03:45.200 in the ground, make sure the roots are you know, 1:03:45.320 --> 1:03:47.880 not bound up, and make sure it's got a nice 1:03:47.880 --> 1:03:49.680 watered wrench right when you put it in the ground, 1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:53.160 so it starts adjusting and that's you know, that's that's 1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:56.280 the first step in something as simple as guerrilla agriculture. 1:03:56.840 --> 1:03:59.080 One of the first things that we tried to do 1:03:59.160 --> 1:04:02.360 when I got kind of started in you know, the 1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:06.200 you know Portland's kind of more lefty scened, was you know, 1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:10.919 ideas for you know, building a community garden somewhere. And yeah, 1:04:11.000 --> 1:04:14.200 because there is just a lot of dirt, especially like 1:04:14.320 --> 1:04:17.520 Portland's specifically lucky just because we just have so much 1:04:17.560 --> 1:04:20.520 green space. Uh, there's a lot of places to to 1:04:20.600 --> 1:04:24.440 start grilla gardening, to start doing our own little community garden. 1:04:25.360 --> 1:04:30.360 Do you do you have any alleged experience in gorilla gartening. Yes, 1:04:31.200 --> 1:04:34.400 So if you're on Instagram, I post a bit about 1:04:34.440 --> 1:04:37.280 some of the grilla gardening stuff that I do. UM. 1:04:37.360 --> 1:04:42.560 I generally focus on guerrilla gardening, not necessarily for my 1:04:42.560 --> 1:04:46.920 own consumption, but more for ecological mitigation for damage from 1:04:47.080 --> 1:04:50.280 um clear cutting and things like that. So I go 1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:52.160 out and try to plant things that are native to 1:04:52.200 --> 1:04:54.880 regions and try to bring them back a little bit. 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:57.880 So that's one of the challenges that we see here 1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:00.840 on the East Coast is not only are our city 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:03.720 is not really designed with green space and mind and 1:05:03.880 --> 1:05:06.760 for community gardens, I almost never recommend them, just because 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:10.360 in places like Boston they're hard to get into and 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:12.080 a lot of major cities like you can be on 1:05:12.080 --> 1:05:16.439 waitlists for years, so that's not really a short term 1:05:16.480 --> 1:05:18.760 solution or a solution for a lot of people that 1:05:18.800 --> 1:05:22.280 are rather transient where you might move communities every three 1:05:22.320 --> 1:05:26.360 or four or five years. Um. So, like guerrilla gardening 1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:29.240 works really great for those folks because you can do 1:05:29.360 --> 1:05:31.800 it when you want and how you want. Nothing says 1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:36.640 community like a waitlist, right No. But like in terms 1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:38.840 of community gardens, I think, you know, there's been a 1:05:38.880 --> 1:05:41.000 lot of people asking about how they get involved in 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:43.360 mutual aiden stuff, especially if they don't have like friends 1:05:43.440 --> 1:05:46.680 or like they don't have many friends or connections to activism. 1:05:47.080 --> 1:05:49.320 I think one of the best ways to start anything 1:05:49.320 --> 1:05:51.440 like that is just all you need is like yourself 1:05:51.480 --> 1:05:53.360 and maybe one or two other people that you know 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:56.080 to just start a community garden somewhere. And that's a 1:05:56.200 --> 1:06:00.600 very very nice on rep into like community organizing. Absolutely 1:06:00.920 --> 1:06:03.720 Back in Portland when I used to live in the Southwest, 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:07.440 there was, there's just whole like community plots that are 1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:11.760 like you know, more like official but still pretty like decentralized. 1:06:12.080 --> 1:06:14.000 That you could just basically go up to one of 1:06:14.040 --> 1:06:16.320 the bank at plots and just start planting food in 1:06:16.320 --> 1:06:19.240 this community setting, and like once a month, all of 1:06:19.280 --> 1:06:21.600 the different gardeners would like get together and talk about 1:06:21.600 --> 1:06:23.880 what they're growing and stuff, and they could, you know, 1:06:23.960 --> 1:06:27.840 could trade produce. Be like, I'm growing I'm growing pumpkins, 1:06:28.040 --> 1:06:30.800 You're growing butternut squash. I want one of your squash. 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:32.440 I want one of your pumpkins. Right, you can like 1:06:32.800 --> 1:06:35.400 that kind of stuff. Um or if you know, if 1:06:35.400 --> 1:06:37.800 you end up having with having like a larger hole, 1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:40.080 you could just give it out to random people. It 1:06:40.200 --> 1:06:44.439 turns out people might like receiving fresh produce. That could 1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:47.200 be another way of making friends and making connections. If 1:06:47.240 --> 1:06:49.560 you're kind of isolated in the city and you only 1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:52.680 have one or two other people, you can't start start 1:06:52.720 --> 1:06:56.200 a new community garden somewhere in the city just like 1:06:56.640 --> 1:07:00.200 scope out of spot, start growing and then and not 1:07:00.440 --> 1:07:02.320 get to speak to that. You know. One of the 1:07:02.360 --> 1:07:04.520 things is that if you act like you're official and 1:07:04.560 --> 1:07:06.560 you're supposed to be there, and you know you're supposed 1:07:06.600 --> 1:07:09.360 to be there. People generally don't really question you, especially 1:07:09.400 --> 1:07:12.800 when it comes to plants, Like if I go to 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:15.280 like a median and go plant some trees, Like as 1:07:15.320 --> 1:07:17.040 long as I act like I know what I'm doing 1:07:17.120 --> 1:07:20.200 and like don't look like I'm trying to be sneaky, 1:07:20.320 --> 1:07:22.920 no one ever questions me. And that that's the key thing, 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:25.000 is to really make it clear that like, you know, 1:07:25.120 --> 1:07:28.480 you're supposed to be there when whenever I eventually I'll 1:07:28.480 --> 1:07:31.360 put together an episode on like urban Stealth and stuff, 1:07:31.400 --> 1:07:34.480 And there's nothing more powerful than like a hive is 1:07:34.560 --> 1:07:39.720 vest just an incredibly powerful tool for making people glaze 1:07:39.760 --> 1:07:42.360 over you and think you're a professional. It's amazing. Or 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:44.320 in this case, like when I'm doing what I do, 1:07:44.640 --> 1:07:48.200 you know, I'll borrow someone's old beat up pickup truck 1:07:48.480 --> 1:07:50.200 and throw a couple of big trees in the back 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:52.040 and like you see that pulled over on the side 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:54.000 of the road with its hazard lights on, nobody's going 1:07:54.040 --> 1:07:55.920 to question that. It's like a town or a city, 1:07:55.960 --> 1:07:58.000 and if somebody from the town shows up as I'm 1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:02.640 from the DPW or whatever, Yeah, there's it's incredibly incredibly 1:08:02.720 --> 1:08:06.240 useful um and yeah, but like getting to know you know. 1:08:06.280 --> 1:08:07.720 If you're like I don't know where to find a 1:08:07.760 --> 1:08:09.800 local you know, I don't know how to like where 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:12.320 I would pick a local community garden spot, be like 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:14.680 you should like get to know your local area. In 1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:17.439 another great way of figuring out how to start doing 1:08:17.479 --> 1:08:19.639 any mutulate or anything. It's like you need to know 1:08:19.880 --> 1:08:22.400 where you live and like what's what's around you? Who 1:08:22.439 --> 1:08:24.679 others who you know? Maybe in your search to find 1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:27.479 a community garden you might find one that already exists. 1:08:27.520 --> 1:08:30.240 If you're unfamiliar with your you know, with if you're 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:32.720 in a metropolitan area or if you're more out in 1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:35.200 the middle of nowhere, you may not know what's around you. 1:08:35.400 --> 1:08:38.240 And I mean looking out to see what's actually in 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:40.040 a community. It is one of the first big steps 1:08:40.640 --> 1:08:43.200 to have any kind of and that plays out also 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:46.120 in ecology. So you know, if you're in a city, 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:49.920 most cities have public horst parks, whatever it might be. 1:08:50.520 --> 1:08:53.080 And part of not knowing what's around you, or knowing 1:08:53.200 --> 1:08:56.200 rather what's around you is starting to identify the plants 1:08:56.240 --> 1:08:59.439 that are already around you. And while there's been a 1:08:59.439 --> 1:09:01.439 lot of action and in terms of thinking about things 1:09:01.520 --> 1:09:05.439 like foraging. Um, there's there's a ton of opportunity for 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:08.479 us to start looking at foods that we don't traditionally 1:09:08.479 --> 1:09:13.519 think of foods but produce a ton of calories. So 1:09:13.640 --> 1:09:17.240 something like oaks. Oaks are across the United States. I 1:09:17.240 --> 1:09:20.480 don't think there's any state without oak trees and acorns 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:22.639 can be a huge part of anyone's diet if they're 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:24.920 willing to take the time and warn about them. And 1:09:24.960 --> 1:09:27.719 that's not something that's radical or anything. It's something that's 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:30.920 been done for thousands of years. It's just in in 1:09:31.000 --> 1:09:34.800 our lifetime, in our parents lifetime, that that knowledge and 1:09:34.880 --> 1:09:37.880 that experience has been mostly lost. But it's not something 1:09:37.920 --> 1:09:43.880 that's weird or unaccessible or any of those types of things. Absolutely, Um, 1:09:44.200 --> 1:09:46.840 I think this is actually a decent cutting off point 1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:50.240 for this episode and then the next in in in 1:09:50.280 --> 1:09:52.400 the In the next episode in the feed here we 1:09:52.479 --> 1:09:57.040 will focus more on ecology, um, books, more on soil, 1:09:57.160 --> 1:09:59.120 and maybe get into permaculture and some other kind of 1:09:59.120 --> 1:10:01.240 stuff because I would love to. Yeah, I learn more 1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:05.599 about you know, specific soil stuff and you know different 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:08.439 you know, more insight to our current like growing situation. 1:10:08.479 --> 1:10:10.719 Overall as like a country and how you know stuff 1:10:10.760 --> 1:10:14.160 is changing. But um, would you like to plug anything 1:10:14.160 --> 1:10:16.799 really to you or any other resources on this topic 1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:20.879 before we head out? Absolutely so we are a podcast. 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:24.320 Go check us out or Pearls dot com or Spotify. 1:10:24.360 --> 1:10:26.559 Wherever you're listening to this podcast, you can go check 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:29.240 out some of our work. We're also on Instagram and 1:10:29.240 --> 1:10:32.200 Facebook like everyone else, and you can go follow us 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:35.640 over there. Fantastic. Um. If you want to keep up 1:10:35.640 --> 1:10:38.000 to date on stuff for this show, you can follow 1:10:38.080 --> 1:10:40.640 cool Zone cool Zone Media and Happen Here pod on 1:10:40.640 --> 1:10:43.439 Twitter and Instagram and you can catch more. It could 1:10:43.479 --> 1:10:47.080 happen here daily in this feed. Uh see you tomorrow. 1:10:47.439 --> 1:11:02.679 By the art, it is essentially a money laundering business. 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:05.800 The best fakes are still hanging on people's walls. You 1:11:05.840 --> 1:11:09.240 know they don't even know or suspect that they're fakes. 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:13.360 I'm Alec Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, 1:11:13.720 --> 1:11:17.080 greed and forgery in the art world. You knew the 1:11:17.080 --> 1:11:23.840 painting was fake. Um, Listen to Art Fraud starting February 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:28.240 one on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or 1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:40.200 wherever you get your podcasts. I call the Union Hall 1:11:40.520 --> 1:11:43.519 as it's about life and death. I think these people 1:11:43.560 --> 1:11:48.200 of planning to kill Dr King. On April four, Dr 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.800 Martin Luther King was shot and killed in Memphis. A 1:11:50.840 --> 1:11:54.400 petty criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.439 guilty to the crime and spent the rest of his 1:11:56.520 --> 1:12:02.000 life in prison. Case closed right, James Hill Ray was 1:12:02.040 --> 1:12:06.800 a pawn For the official story, the authorities would parade, Oh, 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:09.720 we found a gun the James L. Ray bought in 1:12:09.840 --> 1:12:13.880 Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't the gun 1:12:13.920 --> 1:12:17.120 that killed Dr. King. One of the problems that came 1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:20.640 out when I got the Ray case was that some 1:12:20.800 --> 1:12:23.920 of the evidence, as far as I was concerned, did 1:12:23.960 --> 1:12:28.280 not match the circumstances. This is the MLK Tapes. The 1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:31.479 first episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:35.080 Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1:12:37.080 --> 1:12:40.200 Raffie is the voice of some of the happiest songs 1:12:40.240 --> 1:12:45.320 of our generation, Baby the Luga. So who is the 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:50.320 man behind Baby Bluga? Every human being wants to feel respected. 1:12:50.720 --> 1:12:55.400 When we start with all good things can grow from there. 1:12:55.640 --> 1:12:58.799 I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, New Dad and host of Finding 1:12:58.840 --> 1:13:01.360 Raffie a new pod cast from my Heart Radio and 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:04.679 Fatherly Listen every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app 1:13:04.880 --> 1:13:17.120 or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Soil Tom. Hello, 1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:21.559 Welcome to it could happen here. We're talking about We're 1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:26.040 talking about dirt today, big big, big dirt fans here. 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:30.000 We love we love dirt, we love soil. Um. And 1:13:30.080 --> 1:13:33.320 to help us talk about soil, dirt, ecology, growing, for 1:13:34.040 --> 1:13:38.280 forging all of this kind of stuff, we have Andy 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:42.080 from the Poor Pearl's Almanac podcast about you know what 1:13:42.240 --> 1:13:45.960 to do after you know, stuff kind of crumbles away slowly, 1:13:46.040 --> 1:13:48.840 kind of kind of like kind of like our podcast. Um, 1:13:48.880 --> 1:13:52.800 and we're not like our soil hopefully. Well I got 1:13:52.800 --> 1:13:55.840 some bad news for you there. Some of us are 1:13:55.840 --> 1:13:58.519 not great at cultivating soil, which is what we are 1:13:58.520 --> 1:14:01.519 talking about today is how to avoid getting a lot 1:14:01.520 --> 1:14:04.000 of void, Like how can we help help against our 1:14:04.040 --> 1:14:09.080 soil just blowing away? Um? Yeah, that is that is 1:14:09.120 --> 1:14:11.160 that is our discussion. I I wrapped up like a 1:14:11.200 --> 1:14:16.639 week of research on California's specific climate and drought and 1:14:16.680 --> 1:14:19.240 what all the farmers are doing. Um, and a lot 1:14:19.280 --> 1:14:21.639 of their soil is blowing away and so far their 1:14:21.680 --> 1:14:23.920 solution to that is just spray more water on it, 1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:28.000 which the problem is there's not tons of water. Um, 1:14:28.120 --> 1:14:32.400 so let's talk about dirt. Let's talk about soil. I 1:14:32.439 --> 1:14:36.000 will hand it over to the residents. Soy boy, the 1:14:36.080 --> 1:14:39.599 soil expert here, because I don't know what I'm talking 1:14:39.600 --> 1:14:43.280 about with dirts are getting famous, I know I have. 1:14:43.439 --> 1:14:46.200 That was that was just that I was just ripping, 1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:48.840 ripping off of a title of one of his episodes. 1:14:48.920 --> 1:14:52.240 So that's not original. Blame him for the pond. Sorry, 1:14:52.400 --> 1:14:57.160 I do that a lot. So in terms of building soil, 1:14:57.400 --> 1:15:02.160 there's it's really a basic idea of how to do it, 1:15:02.400 --> 1:15:05.800 and it generally comes down to understanding what a soil 1:15:05.880 --> 1:15:09.160 needs and how to let the soil build through rest 1:15:09.920 --> 1:15:13.040 and generally speaking, when we plant our annual crops, what 1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:15.360 happens is you put your tomato plants in the ground, 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:19.040 whatever it might be, you've got a great harvest, you know, 1:15:19.120 --> 1:15:21.800 let them die, clear them out, and then the next 1:15:21.880 --> 1:15:24.519 year maybe you throw some more compost on it, or 1:15:24.560 --> 1:15:26.800 maybe you're like, yeah, I just don't want time, I 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:28.600 won't do it, and you'll grow and you might have 1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:31.040 a pretty decent crop again. And then usually by like 1:15:31.080 --> 1:15:33.120 the third year, you start to notice that your plants 1:15:33.120 --> 1:15:35.800 just aren't doing as well, like all the nutrients and 1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:38.280 the minerals have started to get taken out of the soil. 1:15:38.760 --> 1:15:42.200 So you can either continuously add new material to it, 1:15:42.240 --> 1:15:46.040 which comes from somewhere. Doesn't seem very sustainable. Yeah, it's 1:15:46.080 --> 1:15:49.639 absolutely not sustainable. And the alternative is to think about 1:15:49.640 --> 1:15:51.960 how can I build up that soil without doing that, 1:15:52.360 --> 1:15:54.200 And there's a couple of different ways we can do that. 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:59.200 The soil can get built from things like cover crops, 1:15:59.479 --> 1:16:03.080 so we can add cover crops generally things like nitrogen 1:16:03.160 --> 1:16:07.759 fixing plants, Clover's hairy vetch and a number of others 1:16:07.760 --> 1:16:10.639 that we can use to help fix nitrogen into the soil. 1:16:11.200 --> 1:16:13.800 Or we can add other things to add biomass. So 1:16:14.000 --> 1:16:17.160 certain grasses and things like that can be planted and 1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:19.960 they'll mind deep into the soil to pull up nutrients 1:16:20.200 --> 1:16:22.400 when they die off, or you can cut them down 1:16:22.760 --> 1:16:25.559 they start breaking down, they return those nutrients back, but 1:16:25.600 --> 1:16:27.920 they're on the top soil now, So that's another way 1:16:27.920 --> 1:16:31.080 we can do it. Alternatively, if we're talking about a 1:16:31.120 --> 1:16:33.720 little bit more land, you can take advantage of using 1:16:33.760 --> 1:16:39.680 animals so chickens, rabbits, cheap cows, whatever it might be, 1:16:40.200 --> 1:16:44.439 reintroduce nutrients back into the soil through things like rotational grazing. 1:16:44.960 --> 1:16:47.280 And there's a you know that, that's a whole other 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:50.600 subject of you know, how different methods are better or 1:16:50.680 --> 1:16:54.080 worse for fixing nitrogen and all the other nutrients back 1:16:54.080 --> 1:16:57.080 into the soil. And we can talk about it. I 1:16:57.120 --> 1:16:59.000 don't know if you want to spend an hour talking 1:16:59.000 --> 1:17:02.360 about it. I assume that that definitely depends on the 1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:05.559 scale of your operation. I would assume absolutely. And you 1:17:05.600 --> 1:17:08.839 can do that on a smaller scale, not necessarily cows, 1:17:08.920 --> 1:17:12.839 but like chickens. Chickens can be run through chicken tractors, 1:17:12.840 --> 1:17:15.280 which can be as small as you know, three ft 1:17:15.280 --> 1:17:18.519 by six ft. We were making, yeah, we were making 1:17:18.560 --> 1:17:23.759 some fertilizer a few months ago and basically we raked 1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:27.000 up well I didn't. I watched as people did this 1:17:27.040 --> 1:17:30.840 because I was lazy. I watched people just rake up 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:35.439 tons of sheep shit, um, because there we have there's 1:17:35.439 --> 1:17:37.920 a little sheep set up, um. And they were just 1:17:38.160 --> 1:17:40.840 raking up all the ship and putting into a pile 1:17:40.840 --> 1:17:44.760 of dirt. And now it's been like a it's been 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:46.640 like a month or two, and we should have some 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:49.960 okay fertilizer by now, which we can you know, use 1:17:50.320 --> 1:17:54.800 however we see fit. But chickens, chickens, chickens as well 1:17:55.560 --> 1:17:59.520 not not everyone probably has sheep or access to sheep um, 1:17:59.560 --> 1:18:02.960 but chicks are surprisingly easy to get. Yeah, and depending 1:18:03.000 --> 1:18:05.400 on the city or in h you can live in 1:18:05.439 --> 1:18:08.559 pretty dense places and still legally have chickens. You might 1:18:08.560 --> 1:18:10.599 have to get comfortable with the idea of slaughtering a rooster, 1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.840 but other than that, you know, there's it's funny because 1:18:13.840 --> 1:18:15.880 what you'll see is like in the early spring everyone 1:18:15.880 --> 1:18:19.880 gets chickens, and then by like July, you on on 1:18:20.040 --> 1:18:26.240 Craigslist or Facebook or Instagram, everyone's like, free rooster to 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:31.840 good home because they can't slaughter themselves. Yeah, I've had 1:18:31.920 --> 1:18:35.240 I've had to watch a few roosters get the get 1:18:35.280 --> 1:18:38.920 the old old acts. There was there was this one 1:18:39.040 --> 1:18:42.160 rooster that would always wake up as we were all 1:18:42.200 --> 1:18:43.840 going to bed. We would have like we have like 1:18:43.840 --> 1:18:46.519 a movie night, um, and we're like going to bed 1:18:46.560 --> 1:18:49.880 at four am, and that's when the rooster starts. We're like, no, 1:18:50.000 --> 1:18:51.920 we're trying to sleep and we're like we need to 1:18:52.000 --> 1:18:56.800 kill that rooster. It's only time one bad day to 1:18:56.840 --> 1:19:02.040 be like I cannot listen to that sound again. At 1:19:02.080 --> 1:19:04.679 least at least it went to some good use. Yeah, 1:19:04.720 --> 1:19:08.439 anyway back to dirt. Yeah, let's see where we keep 1:19:08.439 --> 1:19:12.720 talking about reintroducing stuff via you know, chemical means, I mean, 1:19:12.880 --> 1:19:17.280 or or just using animals and stuff, or or rotating plants. Yeah. 1:19:17.320 --> 1:19:19.280 So there's a bunch of different ways you can do it, 1:19:19.320 --> 1:19:23.200 and obviously it's all defined by what your site needs. 1:19:23.880 --> 1:19:25.840 You know, the way we're talking at this point has 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:28.080 been mostly about like you already have a garden and 1:19:28.120 --> 1:19:30.880 that soil needs to be amended to improve it. But 1:19:30.920 --> 1:19:33.599 if you're working with, say a site that has almost 1:19:33.600 --> 1:19:37.400 no top soil. So for example, a friend of mine 1:19:37.400 --> 1:19:40.360 out in California lives near a highway and they had 1:19:40.479 --> 1:19:44.080 scraped all the top soil around the highway to build 1:19:44.160 --> 1:19:47.439 up the highway. So now there's no top soil, it's 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:50.519 just garbage. So how do you build that soil up? 1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:52.360 And there's a bunch of different ways we can do that, 1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:57.320 whether it's through taking advantage of free resources like um mulch, 1:19:57.720 --> 1:19:59.600 like if you see a tree getting cut down, and 1:19:59.640 --> 1:20:02.120 they it it all up. Those guys have to pay 1:20:02.160 --> 1:20:03.600 to get rid of it most of the time, or 1:20:03.640 --> 1:20:06.760 they get paid just enough to cover their gas. So 1:20:06.800 --> 1:20:08.120 if you see it down the street and say, hey, 1:20:08.120 --> 1:20:09.559 you want to drop it off in my house, they'll 1:20:09.640 --> 1:20:12.479 happily do it. Yeah. We we just found out there 1:20:12.560 --> 1:20:16.320 is this business in Portland that you can email them 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:18.600 to do a chip drop where they take all of 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:21.000 their mulchion wood chips and drop them off in your 1:20:21.080 --> 1:20:24.120 driveway and it's completely free you you you you don't 1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:26.360 need to pay for it. You can just schedule them 1:20:26.360 --> 1:20:28.880 to drop it off anywhere. And a short aside, we 1:20:28.920 --> 1:20:32.160 also found out that they don't require address verification, so 1:20:32.200 --> 1:20:34.759 you can do this as a prank. Um. You can 1:20:34.800 --> 1:20:38.320 find out where the mayor lives, um or where I 1:20:38.360 --> 1:20:41.599 don't know a particularly bad person lives. Let's say he 1:20:41.640 --> 1:20:45.360 wears armor and he brutalizes people and threatens them with 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:48.120 guns while having a bad you can find out if 1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:49.960 you know where it lives, you can just deliver tons 1:20:50.000 --> 1:20:52.760 of wood chips right right on this driveway. Um. And 1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:55.320 and they have a rule on their website is once 1:20:55.400 --> 1:20:58.200 a delivery has been initiated, it's like once the truck leaves, 1:20:58.360 --> 1:21:01.280 you know, their office, it cannot be stopped. There's no way, 1:21:01.760 --> 1:21:04.240 there's no way preventing it, and they don't contact the 1:21:04.280 --> 1:21:07.960 house beforehead, no way preventing it. Just a random, random 1:21:08.200 --> 1:21:12.200 wood chip drop anywhere in any driveway. It's a magical system. 1:21:12.240 --> 1:21:13.880 But you can also just use this for you know, 1:21:13.960 --> 1:21:16.679 getting wood chips to help grow things. Yeah, and we'll 1:21:16.840 --> 1:21:19.400 just such an underrated medium. It's like really good for 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:22.840 like water retention and helping soil not dry out too fast. 1:21:22.920 --> 1:21:26.600 It's it's not just like aesthetically nice looking and accessible, 1:21:26.680 --> 1:21:29.400 it's also like really good for the plants. So I'll 1:21:29.400 --> 1:21:31.880 add two caveats to that. And the first is that 1:21:32.600 --> 1:21:34.920 it's really important to know what species you're dealing with 1:21:35.040 --> 1:21:38.440 that are the wood chips, because certain species have chemicals 1:21:38.439 --> 1:21:42.679 on them that will reduce growth or stop it completely. 1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:46.000 So like black walnuts are really well known and on 1:21:46.040 --> 1:21:49.679 the East Coast as having what's called juglone, And there's 1:21:49.680 --> 1:21:52.719 a bunch of different species that again are probably unique 1:21:52.720 --> 1:21:54.559 to where you live that you should just be aware of. 1:21:55.280 --> 1:21:58.479 And the second one is that mulch and wood chips 1:21:58.520 --> 1:22:02.840 are fantastic for your arden However, the one drawback is 1:22:02.880 --> 1:22:06.040 that for the wood chips to break down, they actually 1:22:06.120 --> 1:22:08.800 utilize a lot of the nitrogen in the soil. So 1:22:08.840 --> 1:22:10.600 that's just so you may have a bit of a 1:22:10.720 --> 1:22:13.240 nitrogen problem or some kind of nitrogen fixing, So it 1:22:13.240 --> 1:22:16.320 would be more important to think about cover crops and 1:22:17.080 --> 1:22:20.559 either adding fresh compost or whatever it might be help 1:22:20.640 --> 1:22:24.040 offset some of that nitrogen absorption. So so it's not 1:22:24.560 --> 1:22:26.920 it's a great resource. It's just not perfect. You just 1:22:26.960 --> 1:22:30.720 have to be aware of the limitations of it. I 1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:34.880 would like to touch on why we're in a bit 1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:37.160 of a pickle, like what what what what have we 1:22:37.280 --> 1:22:41.800 done agriculturally to kind of make our soil so unfragile? 1:22:41.880 --> 1:22:45.000 Like what what did we do wrong? Um on? Like 1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:47.800 even on like a larger scale, and how how might 1:22:47.920 --> 1:22:50.360 someone like me who just has a small set up, 1:22:50.680 --> 1:22:52.720 you know, not make the same mistakes in my own 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:58.799 personal garden. Sure, so the beginning of the food system 1:22:58.960 --> 1:23:02.439 becoming what it is to day really started with oil. 1:23:03.880 --> 1:23:08.679 Access to things like petrochemicals allowed us to start rethinking 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:14.080 about how we grew food and forgetting about traditional methods. Summarily, 1:23:14.160 --> 1:23:16.120 things like using the newer I mean, you think about it, 1:23:16.560 --> 1:23:20.800 you eat, all the nutrients go out the sewer, and 1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:23.320 then they never go back into the soil. And we're 1:23:23.800 --> 1:23:27.000 constantly taking from the same soils year after year, and 1:23:27.360 --> 1:23:29.720 the only way we continue to produce is because we're 1:23:29.760 --> 1:23:32.840 dumping chemicals and forcing the soil, which is just a 1:23:32.920 --> 1:23:36.679 medium at this point, just dirt. It's not soil, and 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:38.760 we're just making it grow food because we're adding the 1:23:38.840 --> 1:23:41.519 chemicals the plants need. But we've destroyed things like the 1:23:41.560 --> 1:23:45.240 bacterial community, the fungag community, all these different things that 1:23:45.280 --> 1:23:48.680 are so crucial for our food systems to be resilient 1:23:49.320 --> 1:23:53.160 in terms of how can we move forward. Building that 1:23:53.240 --> 1:23:55.840 soil is super important and understanding these cycles of where 1:23:55.840 --> 1:23:59.479 our food comes from. The biggest challenge really is that 1:23:59.760 --> 1:24:04.000 we're trying to create ethical food systems under an inethical 1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:08.920 economic model. Sure, so, like you'll see, like perma culture 1:24:09.000 --> 1:24:11.800 is like a really big thing today and for a 1:24:11.840 --> 1:24:16.559 lot of good reasons because it challenges that methodology. However, 1:24:16.960 --> 1:24:20.000 because of things like capitalism, we can't really have an 1:24:20.000 --> 1:24:22.960 honest conversation about the fact that a lot of people 1:24:23.000 --> 1:24:25.400 will tell you you can make money doing perma culture 1:24:25.439 --> 1:24:28.640 and you some people do, but it's not it's not 1:24:28.720 --> 1:24:32.680 really what people think. Like there's no way to ethically 1:24:32.680 --> 1:24:37.920 grow food and not have the problems of yeah, you're 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:41.519 you're facing or competing with somebody that doesn't have any 1:24:41.520 --> 1:24:44.640 ethical guidelines or framework that you have to compete with. 1:24:45.400 --> 1:24:47.120 And I mean, there's plenty of things we can say 1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:49.479 that there are problems with perma culture, and if you want, 1:24:49.560 --> 1:24:52.880 we can talk about that further. But this is the 1:24:52.960 --> 1:24:56.360 primary reason why we can't really fundamentally rethink our food 1:24:56.400 --> 1:25:01.679 system until things either fall apart or capitalism no longer exists, 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:04.720 or there are major subsidies for these alternatives, whatever it 1:25:04.800 --> 1:25:09.360 might be. Yeah, let's see, Like is even something like 1:25:10.200 --> 1:25:13.720 would you even say, just like someone buying pre made 1:25:13.760 --> 1:25:16.439 fertilizers should be avoided in that case, like would you 1:25:16.479 --> 1:25:18.799 would you rather you know, someone trying to make it ourselves? 1:25:18.800 --> 1:25:20.720 And like what's cheaper you know, like it is just 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:23.840 buying fertilizer or cheaper than I would actually make it yourself. 1:25:23.880 --> 1:25:26.320 There's another kind of problem with these types of things 1:25:26.320 --> 1:25:27.680 that it turns out, you know, the way to make 1:25:27.720 --> 1:25:30.920 things better might cost some people more money, you know, 1:25:30.960 --> 1:25:33.160 than people who don't really have as many resources, you know, 1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:34.920 just like a regular person who's trying to do this, 1:25:35.640 --> 1:25:37.519 you know, they don't have as much money and would 1:25:37.640 --> 1:25:40.960 would just buying pre made chemicals be you know, easier 1:25:40.960 --> 1:25:43.320 and cheaper than doing work to kind of build it 1:25:43.400 --> 1:25:48.320 up more like quote unquote naturally. I mean, obviously, I 1:25:48.360 --> 1:25:52.360 think under capitalism, anything that's efficient in terms of time 1:25:52.560 --> 1:25:56.960 and um, taking advantage of things like scalability, which you know, 1:25:57.560 --> 1:26:00.680 mining nutrients is always going to be more efficient when 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:03.640 you're doing it on a massive global scale, Like you 1:26:03.680 --> 1:26:07.920 really can't compete dollar for dollar. And that's at least 1:26:07.960 --> 1:26:09.960 with what I do with the poor pros almanac. We 1:26:10.000 --> 1:26:12.640 don't really focus on that and instead say this is 1:26:12.680 --> 1:26:15.080 how things should be, and how do we do that 1:26:15.439 --> 1:26:17.760 and when do we need to start doing that if 1:26:17.920 --> 1:26:21.320 we know that what exists today isn't sustainable and that 1:26:21.520 --> 1:26:26.240 ultimately this is gonna fall apart in some capacity. Yeah, 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:29.479 you talked more about like trees specifically, and I would 1:26:29.479 --> 1:26:31.519 love to love to hear more about that, you know, 1:26:32.160 --> 1:26:35.200 outside of just you know, making your own like edible garden, 1:26:35.920 --> 1:26:40.240 doing doing other kind of ecology related related work. Sure, 1:26:40.320 --> 1:26:44.439 so trees have you know, so many benefits outside of 1:26:44.479 --> 1:26:47.599 the fact that they can produce food. Um, we could 1:26:47.800 --> 1:26:50.760 look at things like how they can manage a landscape 1:26:50.800 --> 1:26:55.439 and reduce temperature extremes, the way they can maintain soil 1:26:55.600 --> 1:26:59.719 quality because of um reducing things like runoff from major 1:26:59.760 --> 1:27:03.000 store arms, which are happening more and more frequently. YEA. Further, 1:27:03.240 --> 1:27:06.400 like I said, they do produce food, and they sometimes 1:27:06.439 --> 1:27:09.080 they produce food for us, sometimes they produce food for 1:27:09.400 --> 1:27:14.240 our livestock. Um. Additionally, there's a process called silvil pasture, 1:27:14.280 --> 1:27:17.120 which is essentially when you think of a farm, you 1:27:17.160 --> 1:27:19.599 think of a cow walking around in a field instead 1:27:19.640 --> 1:27:23.640 that cows walking around and a managed forest and the 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:27.240 forest floor gets enough sunlight to grow grass, so you're 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:29.960 getting the benefits of the grass as well as the trees. 1:27:30.520 --> 1:27:32.799 And you can either be using those trees for lumber 1:27:33.000 --> 1:27:35.600 or for food crops or whatever it might be, and 1:27:35.640 --> 1:27:38.479 you're getting the best of both worlds. And in a 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:42.520 lot of ways, the civil pasture system more accurately represents 1:27:42.560 --> 1:27:45.000 the way the landscape had been managed, especially here in 1:27:45.040 --> 1:27:49.559 the northeast and generally the East coast by indigenous people. Um. 1:27:49.600 --> 1:27:52.400 You know, they weren't using cows, they were doing prescribed 1:27:52.439 --> 1:27:55.479 burns and things like that. But those environments are actually 1:27:55.520 --> 1:27:58.640 better for things like a deer which like to like 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:02.680 to exist on like the margins of forests where they're 1:28:02.680 --> 1:28:04.840 getting the best of both worlds. So that was how 1:28:04.880 --> 1:28:11.160 they managed a wild Essentially they're wild grazing the native species. Yeah, 1:28:11.160 --> 1:28:14.120 and we just I'm just trying to think there's like 1:28:14.280 --> 1:28:16.360 we we don't really have anything like that on a 1:28:16.520 --> 1:28:20.080 on a large scale anymore. We've we've just jumped right 1:28:20.080 --> 1:28:24.120 into like the the field and pastor thing. Yeah, I mean, 1:28:24.160 --> 1:28:26.000 you think about it, it it makes sense that we haven't 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:30.600 because of the fact that to do that requires individuality. 1:28:30.800 --> 1:28:33.120 In terms of how we manage a landscape. You can't 1:28:33.160 --> 1:28:36.800 run a machine through SBA pasture. You can't just make 1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:39.240 like a template and apply to every situation. Everything is 1:28:39.280 --> 1:28:43.120 much more unique based on their individual environment and ecosystem. Yeah, 1:28:43.160 --> 1:28:45.639 and then it becomes less efficient to manage in terms 1:28:45.720 --> 1:28:49.120 of how we manage things as a successional thing where 1:28:49.120 --> 1:28:52.000 we have you go through the field and you seat 1:28:52.040 --> 1:28:54.240 it with a giant machine, because you can do it 1:28:54.320 --> 1:28:57.479 faster that way, you can add whatever amendments you need 1:28:57.960 --> 1:28:59.960 more quickly. When it's just a flat piece of land 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:02.400 with nothing in the way, so on and so on. 1:29:02.479 --> 1:29:04.719 It's just it doesn't It goes right in the face 1:29:04.800 --> 1:29:07.880 of how we think of efficiency, despite the fact, through 1:29:07.920 --> 1:29:11.840 its diversity it's more resilient to what's coming in terms 1:29:11.840 --> 1:29:15.840 of climate change, especially the logs run. Yeah. Yeah. In 1:29:15.840 --> 1:29:18.120 the last episode we talked a bit about grilla gardening. 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:21.080 Can this like intersect with with this idea of like 1:29:21.240 --> 1:29:24.120 growing in the forest? Um is there? You know? I 1:29:24.120 --> 1:29:28.400 assume there's like a decent cross over there. Absolutely. So. 1:29:28.800 --> 1:29:31.759 Generally speaking, a lot of people that are into silvil 1:29:31.840 --> 1:29:35.000 pasture are also thinking about things like tree crops. And 1:29:35.040 --> 1:29:36.920 one of the things that I really focus on is 1:29:36.960 --> 1:29:40.920 thinking about foods that we don't traditionally think of as foods, 1:29:41.000 --> 1:29:43.559 or at least not as like staple crops. So like, 1:29:43.560 --> 1:29:46.080 while people might be familiar with kind of the odd 1:29:46.080 --> 1:29:48.720 fruits like per simmons, you might know what a persimmon is. 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:50.519 You might have one or two, or maybe make per 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:54.960 simmon bread. That's not usually a large part of anyone's diet, no, 1:29:55.479 --> 1:29:57.800 And that's like, that's the challenge that we really have, 1:29:58.000 --> 1:30:00.920 is while people like to incorporate rate these types of things, 1:30:00.920 --> 1:30:04.000 in permaculture into you know, how they think about their 1:30:04.000 --> 1:30:07.799 relationship with the environment. Like nobody's giving up their toast 1:30:07.840 --> 1:30:09.479 in the morning and that's you know, a third of 1:30:09.520 --> 1:30:11.599 your diet or whatever it might be. And that's where 1:30:11.640 --> 1:30:14.479 we need to fundamentally shift how we think about food. 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:18.000 So you're saying that we need to change in order 1:30:18.000 --> 1:30:21.000 to address these large systemic issues that have caused many problems. 1:30:21.320 --> 1:30:24.680 We need to change the way we extract resources from 1:30:24.680 --> 1:30:28.800 the earth and maybe reevaluate how much we do. So yeah, 1:30:28.880 --> 1:30:30.960 I mean, you know, it's it's no small feed, is 1:30:31.000 --> 1:30:33.120 what I'm saying. I know, I'm just saying, like, you know, 1:30:33.320 --> 1:30:37.360 that's the this specific thing around like food and diet 1:30:38.200 --> 1:30:41.200 is the same root problem we have with climate change 1:30:41.400 --> 1:30:44.840 on a larger scale of like just doing you know, 1:30:45.360 --> 1:30:49.000 progress for progress's sake without realizing that this is not 1:30:49.200 --> 1:30:52.559 a sustainable way to do things. And infinite growing and 1:30:52.600 --> 1:30:56.240 like infinite expansion, maybe it is a bad idea and 1:30:56.280 --> 1:30:59.320 maybe it has some consequence. Who has some consequences? Who 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:01.920 would have thought that infinite growth on a finite planet 1:31:02.000 --> 1:31:08.280 wasn't sustainable? Oops? Yeah, The point that I'm really trying 1:31:08.320 --> 1:31:11.360 to drive home is that we really need to rethink 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:13.760 what food looks like and it has to be in 1:31:13.760 --> 1:31:16.839 a meaningful way that it can't just be those odds 1:31:16.840 --> 1:31:20.200 and ends. And that the thing I think people forget 1:31:20.360 --> 1:31:22.719 is that food is a huge component of our culture 1:31:22.720 --> 1:31:26.240 and our identity. Absolutely think about food and identity. The 1:31:26.320 --> 1:31:28.960 reason why our identity is surrounded around food is because 1:31:29.000 --> 1:31:31.559 food is the byproduct of the environment that we live in. 1:31:32.080 --> 1:31:34.720 And it's you know, for it's been a couple of generations, 1:31:34.720 --> 1:31:38.040 and we went from the reason why Italians eat x 1:31:38.160 --> 1:31:41.160 y z s because that's what grows there. Two I 1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:43.920 eat this because my family does, but I don't know why. 1:31:44.240 --> 1:31:47.400 And that's the way those things relate to one another 1:31:47.600 --> 1:31:50.439 is been completely lost, and we need to figure out 1:31:50.479 --> 1:31:53.559 how to do that again. Can you point to any 1:31:54.160 --> 1:31:56.960 examples of these things you're talking about of like you know, 1:31:57.360 --> 1:31:59.920 of systems existing now or in the past out of 1:32:00.080 --> 1:32:04.400 kind of shown these methods of viewing food and viewing 1:32:05.000 --> 1:32:10.720 you know, growing and soil cultivation, so like any indigenous practice, 1:32:11.200 --> 1:32:13.640 and like we say indigenous, and we usually mean like 1:32:14.040 --> 1:32:17.360 North America or South America or Australia, but even if 1:32:17.400 --> 1:32:21.840 you look across Europe, you know, before capitalism kind of 1:32:22.320 --> 1:32:25.400 got its clause into the rest of Europe or all 1:32:25.439 --> 1:32:28.840 of Europe, Like, there were plenty of indigenous practices and 1:32:28.880 --> 1:32:33.920 in some places they continue and the way that people 1:32:34.000 --> 1:32:38.360 lived um reflected the needs of their ecology and how 1:32:38.400 --> 1:32:41.639 people could relate to that ecology. The reason why Nordic 1:32:41.680 --> 1:32:44.360 countries have high amounts of meat in their diet is 1:32:44.360 --> 1:32:46.719 because of what grows there and what how they can 1:32:46.960 --> 1:32:50.200 utilize book grows there to feed themselves through animals and 1:32:50.240 --> 1:32:54.240 things like that. M hmm, yeah, I mean that is 1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:57.559 that is generally what we hear is you know, look 1:32:57.560 --> 1:33:01.479 at the various indigenous methods of growing um and how 1:33:01.520 --> 1:33:03.400 they how they fed people in their media the area, 1:33:03.400 --> 1:33:05.920 and thinking like how can we take those similar ideas 1:33:05.960 --> 1:33:09.000 and scale it up? Because I mean, they weren't growing 1:33:09.040 --> 1:33:11.639 food for seven billion people. But I know, like we 1:33:11.680 --> 1:33:14.599 grow way too much food for what for many people, 1:33:15.280 --> 1:33:17.320 maybe not too much food, just we distribute it in 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:19.840 a very unefficient way because we don't do it for 1:33:19.920 --> 1:33:21.519 what we need. We do it for profits, and like 1:33:21.560 --> 1:33:23.320 we we we throw away so much food that we 1:33:23.360 --> 1:33:27.040 grow as you know, globally UM. But I you know, 1:33:27.040 --> 1:33:29.479 when I think of these more like older methods of 1:33:29.479 --> 1:33:32.479 growing food. It's it's harder for me to picture that, 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:36.080 you know, feeding an entire city, right, And I don't 1:33:36.080 --> 1:33:38.360 know what the solution is here. This isn't really the 1:33:38.439 --> 1:33:40.920 thing I focus on a lot. But is there a 1:33:40.920 --> 1:33:43.080 way to kind of scale up these like smaller scale 1:33:43.120 --> 1:33:44.559 things that you know, people can do in their own 1:33:44.640 --> 1:33:47.439 yards on any kind of mass level or is that 1:33:47.479 --> 1:33:49.479 just kind of rely back on the same thing. We've 1:33:49.600 --> 1:33:52.080 need to like re reevaluate how much we consume and 1:33:52.080 --> 1:33:54.559 how we consume it. So I think there's a little 1:33:54.560 --> 1:33:56.600 bit of both. I think we do need to reevaluate 1:33:56.720 --> 1:33:59.800 what we're consuming in the volume that we're consuming as well, 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:04.000 is um, you know, the the waste specifically in terms 1:34:04.040 --> 1:34:06.680 of those two things that we tend to lose a 1:34:06.680 --> 1:34:10.639 lot of food that otherwise is useful um. But also 1:34:10.760 --> 1:34:14.320 there is a lot of opportunity and wild places like 1:34:14.360 --> 1:34:17.960 maybe New York City because of the development around the 1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:21.000 city might not there might not be any way possible 1:34:21.120 --> 1:34:24.479 to grow food like within the metropolitan or even the region. 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:28.800 We know that like, and this is something I probably 1:34:28.840 --> 1:34:31.080 should have checked before the staff, but it's something like 1:34:31.120 --> 1:34:34.639 there's four acres of arable land for every person on Earth, 1:34:35.240 --> 1:34:39.760 and four acres is like that's plenty, that's plenty, That's 1:34:39.760 --> 1:34:44.120 absolutely plenty. Um. But like one of the things that's 1:34:44.120 --> 1:34:46.559 really important is to start thinking about how we can 1:34:46.560 --> 1:34:50.439 decentralize these systems in order to have those clusters of 1:34:50.800 --> 1:34:55.040 places where those things are more um capable of growing 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:58.960 and handling the production that's necessary. And so maybe rethink 1:34:59.000 --> 1:35:02.040 about what urbanization really should be and what it should 1:35:02.120 --> 1:35:05.760 look like. And you know, in the future, while things 1:35:05.800 --> 1:35:08.000 may seem like, well, you can't ask people to leave 1:35:08.040 --> 1:35:11.200 New York City as climate change worsens in our food 1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:13.960 systems start to fall apart, that might be a much 1:35:14.000 --> 1:35:17.840 easier conversation to have, while today that seems kind of radical. Yeah, 1:35:17.920 --> 1:35:19.880 and at the very least, maybe we should maybe we 1:35:19.880 --> 1:35:25.280 shouldn't make any more New York cities absolutely, Um. Is 1:35:25.280 --> 1:35:27.920 there any like resources online that you can point to 1:35:28.120 --> 1:35:30.000 that talks more about these types of topics, or like 1:35:30.000 --> 1:35:32.920 books or like anything in this general was growing on 1:35:32.960 --> 1:35:34.599 the growing side of things and then like the more 1:35:34.600 --> 1:35:37.439 like ecology side of things. So Tom Wessels has this 1:35:37.520 --> 1:35:41.040 really great book called The Myth of Progress, which talks 1:35:41.080 --> 1:35:44.080 about complex system science and essentially what that is is 1:35:44.160 --> 1:35:49.880 decentralization and um, the benefits of having diversity within a 1:35:49.960 --> 1:35:54.120 community and the fact that any any power that's you know, 1:35:54.560 --> 1:35:57.800 centered in one specific place ends up having imbalances and 1:35:58.120 --> 1:36:02.040 has less resiliency, and that plays until it's focused around ecology. 1:36:02.080 --> 1:36:05.080 But I think it's really helpful, especially if you're an anarchist. 1:36:05.080 --> 1:36:08.479 I think you can through the lens. Yeah. Yeah, so 1:36:08.520 --> 1:36:11.679 that that's definitely one place to look in terms of 1:36:11.880 --> 1:36:14.880 like growing food. I don't know if there's really any 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:17.559 books that really address it from this perspective of climate 1:36:17.640 --> 1:36:21.719 change and decentralization, but there's plenty of work online about 1:36:21.760 --> 1:36:25.080 silver pasture and you know, food force, any of these 1:36:25.120 --> 1:36:29.600 types of things. YouTube has like a vast array of resources, 1:36:30.080 --> 1:36:32.960 and of course if you're interested in this kind of stuff, 1:36:33.000 --> 1:36:35.479 you can come check us out on our podcast or 1:36:35.479 --> 1:36:39.080 proslamanac we Uh, the entire show is pretty much around 1:36:39.160 --> 1:36:41.639 this subject matter, So you want to learn more about 1:36:41.680 --> 1:36:45.840 it and check it out, Yeah, absolutely definitely. UM if 1:36:45.920 --> 1:36:49.120 this specific topic, you have a wonderful catalog of stuff 1:36:49.160 --> 1:36:51.840 discussing this UM And I just want to thank you 1:36:52.000 --> 1:36:54.400 they and thank you so much for coming on this 1:36:54.400 --> 1:36:57.040 show to kind of talk about these topics. You know, 1:36:57.520 --> 1:37:00.120 me and Robert and you know Chris Weed more like 1:37:00.120 --> 1:37:02.519 a background and like history and that kind of thing. 1:37:02.560 --> 1:37:05.559 We are. We are not super avid plant people. Like 1:37:05.600 --> 1:37:09.519 we're trying to start growing more stuff to our ourselves personally, 1:37:09.760 --> 1:37:12.519 but I'm definitely not educated to talk on this, and 1:37:12.560 --> 1:37:15.720 I'm very very happy that you were able to when 1:37:15.760 --> 1:37:18.599 you're generous with your time and knowledge. So thank you, 1:37:18.600 --> 1:37:22.639 Thank you so much. Yeah, definitely check out their show 1:37:22.920 --> 1:37:26.080 on you know, wherever you get your podcasts, and you 1:37:26.120 --> 1:37:30.160 can follow the show Twitter, on Instagram at cool Zone 1:37:30.200 --> 1:37:33.639 Media and happen here pod um any any any final 1:37:33.760 --> 1:37:38.320 final notes? Grow some food? Yeah, grow some food. Grow 1:37:38.439 --> 1:37:41.559 some food. That is what if I've I've asked that 1:37:41.640 --> 1:37:45.120 question a lot and that answer has come up many times. 1:37:45.160 --> 1:37:58.679 Just growth, grow food. Okay, grow food. Hi. I'm Robert 1:37:58.760 --> 1:38:01.920 sex Reese, host of The Doctor sex re Show. And 1:38:02.000 --> 1:38:05.160 every episode I listened to people talk about their sex 1:38:05.200 --> 1:38:09.000 and intimacy issues, and yes, I despise every minute of it. 1:38:09.439 --> 1:38:13.160 And she she made mistakes too, she kill everyone at 1:38:13.160 --> 1:38:16.120 her wedding. But hell is real. We're all trapped here 1:38:16.400 --> 1:38:18.640 and there's nothing any of us can do about it. 1:38:18.920 --> 1:38:21.800 So join me, won't you? Listen to the Doctor Sex 1:38:21.840 --> 1:38:24.479 re Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, 1:38:24.560 --> 1:38:28.120 Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey Leeth 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:31.720 the listeners take here. Last season on Lethal Lit, you 1:38:31.800 --> 1:38:35.120 might remember I came to Hollow Falls on a mission 1:38:35.560 --> 1:38:39.479 clearing my aunt best name and making sure justice was 1:38:39.600 --> 1:38:43.479 finally served. But I hadn't counted on a rash of 1:38:43.560 --> 1:38:47.839 new murders tearing apart the town. My mission put myself 1:38:47.880 --> 1:38:51.880 and my friends in danger. Though it wasn't all bad, 1:38:52.320 --> 1:38:56.320 I'm going to be reality take I like you, but 1:38:56.400 --> 1:38:59.640 now all signs point to a new serial killer in 1:38:59.680 --> 1:39:03.639 Hollow Falls. If this game is just starting, you better 1:39:03.680 --> 1:39:08.920 believe I'm gonna win. I'm tig Torres and this is 1:39:09.040 --> 1:39:12.120 Lethal Lit. Catch up on season one of the hit 1:39:12.160 --> 1:39:15.559 murder mystery podcast Lethal Lit, a tag Taara's Mystery out now, 1:39:15.920 --> 1:39:18.240 and then tune in for all new thrills in season two, 1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:21.800 dropping weekly starting February nine. Subscribe now to never miss 1:39:21.800 --> 1:39:23.880 an episode. Listen to Leave the Lit on the I 1:39:23.960 --> 1:39:27.240 Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1:39:28.400 --> 1:39:32.879 The Black Effect Presents features Honest conversations and exclusive interviews, 1:39:33.280 --> 1:39:37.679 a space for artists, everyday people and listeners to amplify, elevate, 1:39:38.000 --> 1:39:42.000 and empower black voices with great conversations. Make sure to 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:45.280 listen to The Black Effect Presents podcast on I Heart Radio, 1:39:45.360 --> 1:39:58.320 Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. What's Spicy 1:39:58.560 --> 1:40:04.759 the Pumpkins? No, it was clipping where it's not clipping. 1:40:04.840 --> 1:40:07.160 You just don't like me saying what's spicy my pumpkins? 1:40:07.640 --> 1:40:09.680 But I said it and it can't be unsaid. It 1:40:09.800 --> 1:40:12.240 was because this is it could happen here, a daily 1:40:12.320 --> 1:40:16.080 podcast about the end of some things and the beginning 1:40:16.120 --> 1:40:19.080 of other things. And right now it's an episode about 1:40:19.080 --> 1:40:21.200 the beginning of fall. Because it's officially fall and I'm 1:40:21.280 --> 1:40:25.160 drinking a pumpkin spice black coffee. It's also not officially 1:40:25.160 --> 1:40:27.920 fall yet. It may it may be officially fall by 1:40:27.960 --> 1:40:30.439 the time that podcast comes in legally fall when I 1:40:30.479 --> 1:40:32.880 have my first pumpkin spice black coffee of the year 1:40:32.920 --> 1:40:35.960 and it's cool outside, that's because you're a monster. It's 1:40:35.960 --> 1:40:39.400 because I'm a happy man who is enjoying a fault beverage. 1:40:39.920 --> 1:40:44.479 On this episode, today, we have, of course Garrison. Garrison, Hello, Hi, Garrison. 1:40:45.200 --> 1:40:48.120 Are you doing I'm doing fine great. We also have 1:40:48.800 --> 1:40:51.800 my friends be in a lane b E lane. You 1:40:51.800 --> 1:40:54.080 you you were on the show recently to talk about 1:40:54.120 --> 1:41:00.320 terrorism a year ago recently everything before yesterday is a 1:41:00.400 --> 1:41:02.960 year ago. And uh and now you're on to talk 1:41:03.000 --> 1:41:12.080 about surviving. Yeah, yeah, like crafty surviving punc. We on 1:41:12.360 --> 1:41:14.800 because you were like two of the most useful skill 1:41:14.880 --> 1:41:19.000 filled people that I know. You're both wilderness survival instructors, 1:41:19.040 --> 1:41:21.560 primitive skill instructors for a while, and you have a 1:41:21.600 --> 1:41:24.920 small farm in a town that I won't name, and 1:41:24.960 --> 1:41:27.080 you do all sorts of cool ship like storing food 1:41:27.200 --> 1:41:31.679 and making arrows and other things that are alleged. And 1:41:31.720 --> 1:41:33.280 what I like about that is that, you know we 1:41:33.280 --> 1:41:36.200 talk about like collapse and and things falling apart, there's 1:41:36.240 --> 1:41:38.920 this kind of like I don't know, almost like mimetic 1:41:39.320 --> 1:41:41.080 obsession with like I want to get out into the 1:41:41.080 --> 1:41:42.800 woods and away from the city, and that's the only 1:41:42.800 --> 1:41:45.520 way to survive, and like the reality of the situations, 1:41:45.560 --> 1:41:48.040 that's a terrible way to survive. It's awful. There's nobody 1:41:48.080 --> 1:41:51.840 in there's nobody in the woods and people and it's 1:41:52.200 --> 1:41:54.800 you know, there's there are there are a small chunk 1:41:54.840 --> 1:41:58.200 of the human race that is capable with with just themselves, 1:41:58.320 --> 1:42:02.320 of like surviving in the middle of nowhere with nobody. 1:42:02.360 --> 1:42:05.320 But there's even among that population, there's a small fraction 1:42:05.320 --> 1:42:08.080 who are capable of doing that and not shooting themselves 1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:10.599 after a long enough period of time, and you wouldn't 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:12.880 want to meet that person generally. Well, and I think 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:15.000 the other the other thing about that is like the 1:42:15.160 --> 1:42:20.639 sort of fetishization of of you know, individualist survival skills 1:42:21.320 --> 1:42:25.280 is based on this idea that what people when people 1:42:25.280 --> 1:42:28.320 were like living off the land, that they were doing 1:42:28.360 --> 1:42:34.880 it by themselves alone. There's very few people that survived 1:42:34.960 --> 1:42:37.519 alone for a long time, and even of the people 1:42:37.520 --> 1:42:40.559 that had the skills, like even I, she wandered out 1:42:40.560 --> 1:42:43.400 of the woods after I think eight years of being 1:42:43.600 --> 1:42:48.040 by himself and was finally like fuck it. I was lonely. 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:53.880 He was the last of a indigenous group in California, 1:42:53.920 --> 1:42:57.360 where everyone else in his tribe had been basically with 1:42:57.520 --> 1:43:01.120 been genocided and him and like the last like five 1:43:01.360 --> 1:43:05.679 people went off and hid for very good reason um 1:43:05.800 --> 1:43:08.720 and then after disease and stuff, then it was just 1:43:08.920 --> 1:43:11.799 him and he spent I forget how many years by himself, 1:43:12.320 --> 1:43:15.240 and after a while he finally was like, fuck it, 1:43:15.680 --> 1:43:17.439 being by myself is not worth it, and he came 1:43:17.439 --> 1:43:19.839 out and it was just after the turn of the century, 1:43:20.240 --> 1:43:23.720 and so he ended up being adopted by a bunch 1:43:23.760 --> 1:43:26.040 of anthropologists and spending the rest of his time in 1:43:26.040 --> 1:43:28.479 San Francisco. It's actually where we get most of a 1:43:28.479 --> 1:43:31.519 lot of like the anthropological knowledge of how to make arrows, 1:43:31.560 --> 1:43:34.160 because he was very much like, I'm the last of 1:43:34.200 --> 1:43:36.600 my group, so I will actually show people how to 1:43:36.760 --> 1:43:39.200 do flint napping and how I make arrows and how 1:43:39.240 --> 1:43:42.439 I hunt and yeah, and that's but I mean, and 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:45.040 that's there's kind of the point there that like, with 1:43:45.080 --> 1:43:47.000 all of those skills, being one of that very small 1:43:47.080 --> 1:43:49.240 number of people, who could you drop that guy alone 1:43:49.280 --> 1:43:51.200 with nothing in the woods and he'll figure it out. 1:43:51.479 --> 1:43:57.280 He didn't want to do that. He in fact went 1:43:57.560 --> 1:44:01.000 into San Francisco and was like, well, people wiped out 1:44:01.000 --> 1:44:06.840 my entire gonna make friends with these anthropologists that live 1:44:06.880 --> 1:44:09.679 with them and teach them what I know. Yeah. Again, 1:44:09.720 --> 1:44:11.240 a lot of the folks who are kind of reaching 1:44:11.240 --> 1:44:12.640 out online being like, hey, I don't have a lot 1:44:12.640 --> 1:44:14.280 in the way of money, I'm never gonna be able 1:44:14.320 --> 1:44:16.880 to move to the woods and buy a farm or something. Well, 1:44:16.920 --> 1:44:19.160 you don't, you don't really need to. And like if 1:44:19.160 --> 1:44:21.400 shi it really does hit the fan. Where you live, 1:44:21.400 --> 1:44:25.599 there's probably parks, unless it's Detroit Um, in which case 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:28.599 there's abandoned Walmart's. Like you can make it work, like 1:44:28.640 --> 1:44:31.320 there's it's so so this is an episode about kind 1:44:31.320 --> 1:44:33.960 of the skills that you can acquire and build for 1:44:34.040 --> 1:44:36.640 not a lot of money, more or less wherever you 1:44:36.720 --> 1:44:40.519 live that will help you build resiliency um but also 1:44:40.560 --> 1:44:43.040 build resiliency is part of a community, as opposed to 1:44:43.360 --> 1:44:45.599 living in the woods with a knife, sleeping under mud. 1:44:47.000 --> 1:44:49.519 There's a great short story that you'll turned me onto 1:44:49.520 --> 1:44:52.560 by Cory Doctor in a book of short stories called Radicalized. 1:44:52.600 --> 1:44:54.120 That was was it just called The Mask of the 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:57.120 Red Death? I mean that's called The Master. Yeah. The 1:44:57.160 --> 1:44:59.599 original Mask of the Red Death is set obviously during 1:45:00.120 --> 1:45:02.439 I'm sure everybody read it in high school, like right, 1:45:02.479 --> 1:45:05.280 It's is set during the Bubonic plague with these rich 1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:07.400 people who like decided to just hold up in party 1:45:07.400 --> 1:45:09.839 to escape the plague and they all die of the plague. 1:45:10.560 --> 1:45:14.639 And doctors is a bunch of like libertarians survivalist crypto 1:45:14.720 --> 1:45:17.840 bros who build a fortress in the desert in order 1:45:17.880 --> 1:45:20.439 to survive the end of days. And it turns out 1:45:20.479 --> 1:45:22.559 that like a bunch of bad stuff happens, like there's 1:45:22.600 --> 1:45:25.880 disease in in in civil conflict, but like people figure 1:45:25.920 --> 1:45:28.160 it out, and all of the crypto bros die shooting 1:45:28.200 --> 1:45:33.760 themselves to death because the system. It's obvious from the 1:45:33.800 --> 1:45:37.040 start what's going and everybody who comes along to help them, 1:45:37.200 --> 1:45:40.679 they start shooting at you. We'll just wait until you're 1:45:40.680 --> 1:45:43.240 dead because you're shooting yourself because your water is bad. 1:45:43.640 --> 1:45:45.519 I think we all have, we all have elements of 1:45:45.560 --> 1:45:48.680 some libertarian tendencies in us, which you know, it's not 1:45:48.760 --> 1:45:51.200 bad to learn self reliance, and it's certainly not not 1:45:51.320 --> 1:45:54.440 even bad to want to like live outside of the city. 1:45:54.640 --> 1:45:57.320 But in a lot of ways, living in a living 1:45:57.320 --> 1:46:00.519 in an urban environment surrounded by a community, depending on 1:46:00.560 --> 1:46:03.800 the situation, can be even more resilient because like, yeah, 1:46:03.800 --> 1:46:06.960 an isolated farm instead there's benefits to but also it's 1:46:07.000 --> 1:46:09.120 really easy to surround and just shoot people who were 1:46:09.280 --> 1:46:11.080 living on their farm in the middle of nowhere. If 1:46:11.160 --> 1:46:14.040 ship really does hit the Fai, hap it happens all 1:46:14.080 --> 1:46:16.120 the time. It happened in like Al Salvador and ship 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:18.360 when they had their economic crash. So I don't know 1:46:18.520 --> 1:46:19.680 where do you want to Where do you guys want 1:46:19.720 --> 1:46:22.599 to start? I know you had a couple of different 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:24.880 things that you want that I want to talk about, 1:46:24.960 --> 1:46:27.599 Like preserving food is a big one, and then I 1:46:27.600 --> 1:46:32.240 mean making stuff and doing things is kind of they're 1:46:32.240 --> 1:46:34.080 sort of different. Where would you like to actually start 1:46:34.120 --> 1:46:35.680 with that? I think we can start with kind of 1:46:35.680 --> 1:46:38.439 the d I Y element, branching off of our original 1:46:38.439 --> 1:46:41.479 discussion on primitive skills, and then in like part two, 1:46:41.520 --> 1:46:43.559 we can go more into like food and like skin, 1:46:43.720 --> 1:46:47.639 like in like foraging, um and preservation and stuff. Cool. 1:46:47.880 --> 1:46:52.360 I mean, so d I why um? I guess now 1:46:52.400 --> 1:46:56.680 there's a lot of stuff about, Like there's I don't know, 1:46:56.720 --> 1:46:59.360 there's all this stuff about like survival skills and all 1:46:59.439 --> 1:47:02.240 this stuff, and both of us kind of came into 1:47:03.240 --> 1:47:05.000 the idea of making stuff and doing things by being 1:47:05.040 --> 1:47:08.880 punks um and it's kind of funny, yeah, having no money, 1:47:08.960 --> 1:47:12.559 but also just their d I Y like do it 1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:17.200 yourself was a very like kind of nineties punk thing 1:47:17.240 --> 1:47:19.679 that came into the mainstream like I actually was pulling 1:47:19.680 --> 1:47:21.400 out some of my old books, and I think it's 1:47:21.400 --> 1:47:25.160 funny to see the like progression because I have, you know, 1:47:25.479 --> 1:47:28.519 the really lovely like Food Not Lawns that goes into 1:47:28.560 --> 1:47:32.880 a whole pile of really fantastic things that came out 1:47:33.280 --> 1:47:36.000 that I don't know, the first Food Not Lawns house 1:47:36.080 --> 1:47:39.280 I saw at the town as in was in like 1:47:39.479 --> 1:47:42.080 two thousand five or six, but this book came out 1:47:42.080 --> 1:47:43.679 in two thousand and six. But it was this entire 1:47:43.760 --> 1:47:47.160 movement of like making community and doing and like how 1:47:47.200 --> 1:47:51.080 to do stuff yourself on your front lawn. Yeah, and 1:47:51.120 --> 1:47:54.720 then I have from eleven the bus d i Y 1:47:54.760 --> 1:47:57.400 Guide to Life that includes everything from like how to 1:47:57.439 --> 1:48:00.160 do warm composting to how to make your own makeup 1:48:00.200 --> 1:48:04.160 and like finance the house. And that's that's like the magazine, right. Yes, 1:48:04.560 --> 1:48:07.400 So it's kind of interesting because it definitely like was 1:48:07.400 --> 1:48:10.840 the thing that I watched come into the mainstream. But 1:48:11.520 --> 1:48:16.639 you know, it started as a lot of punks trying 1:48:16.680 --> 1:48:18.519 to figure out how to do things because they had 1:48:18.520 --> 1:48:22.640 no money, and but also different from a lot of 1:48:22.680 --> 1:48:25.120 you know, like woodworking or craft books that really are 1:48:25.240 --> 1:48:28.559 you know, by these seven thousand dollars worth of tools 1:48:28.680 --> 1:48:33.719 and now you too can learn Yes. And there's also 1:48:33.800 --> 1:48:37.120 there's also an ethos behind it, right that, like before 1:48:37.760 --> 1:48:40.240 I was, I came at it first and foremost through 1:48:40.280 --> 1:48:43.320 being like a bike punk in the in the late 1:48:43.400 --> 1:48:45.800 nineties early two thousands, being a bike punk, and the 1:48:45.840 --> 1:48:49.679 idea of like the d I y ethos was less 1:48:49.720 --> 1:48:54.200 about the grid is going to collapse and like everything 1:48:54.320 --> 1:48:55.960 is going to fall apart and you're going to need 1:48:56.000 --> 1:48:58.200 to survive by the skin of your teeth, and it 1:48:58.280 --> 1:49:01.320 was a lot more you at the tail end of 1:49:01.400 --> 1:49:04.960 the nineties and like the sort of golden era of 1:49:05.040 --> 1:49:09.040 neoliberal capitalism and office space and that whole cultural moment, 1:49:09.520 --> 1:49:13.760 the idea that life was alienated and shitty and it 1:49:13.920 --> 1:49:17.000 felt better to know how to do things that you 1:49:17.080 --> 1:49:19.960 needed in your day to day life for yourself, using 1:49:20.040 --> 1:49:24.320 stuff you had made yourself or gotten from your community members. Um. Yeah, 1:49:24.400 --> 1:49:27.000 resiliency is less about knowing you have a pile of 1:49:27.080 --> 1:49:29.320 dried food in the house and know more about looking 1:49:29.360 --> 1:49:31.200 at fresh food and knowing, I know how to make 1:49:31.240 --> 1:49:33.560 that last the winter. Yeah, And it's been interesting to 1:49:33.600 --> 1:49:35.920 see the way that like as that has gotten kind 1:49:35.920 --> 1:49:41.920 of mainstreamed into like, you know, the the what is 1:49:41.960 --> 1:49:45.200 it primitive. There's a bunch of different like primitive x 1:49:45.320 --> 1:49:48.040 y Z YouTube channels that get lots of show trick 1:49:48.080 --> 1:49:50.760 and ship, and as that all gets mainstreamed, there's this 1:49:50.840 --> 1:49:54.200 idea of like expertise that creeps back into it. And 1:49:54.360 --> 1:49:57.719 d I I was like firmly committed to the idea 1:49:57.800 --> 1:50:02.760 that everybody could learn stuff and listening to somebody who 1:50:02.760 --> 1:50:04.880 said they were an expert was a trapped and a 1:50:04.880 --> 1:50:06.600 lot of that was coming out of like the seventies 1:50:06.600 --> 1:50:09.360 when there was all of the like you know, CULTI 1:50:09.400 --> 1:50:12.240 lifestyle ship that was like, hey, look we're going to 1:50:12.360 --> 1:50:14.960 teach you how to change your life, and yeah, we're 1:50:14.960 --> 1:50:17.400 gonna we're gonna buy up all this land and Antelope, 1:50:17.439 --> 1:50:21.280 Oregon and and so d I Y was emphatically not 1:50:21.360 --> 1:50:24.439 that it was like there's skills, and you can learn skills, 1:50:24.479 --> 1:50:26.960 and the Internet doesn't really exist yet or not really, 1:50:27.040 --> 1:50:28.880 so you can read books about it and you can 1:50:28.960 --> 1:50:31.639 have skills fare because there wasn't Twitter, we also all 1:50:31.680 --> 1:50:33.760 had a lot more time on our hands and like 1:50:33.960 --> 1:50:40.599 each other more. But there's also expertise was something that 1:50:40.960 --> 1:50:43.360 was handy to have you know, like if I needed 1:50:43.360 --> 1:50:48.320 to rebuild my wheel on my bike and respoke, it, 1:50:48.800 --> 1:50:50.800 wanted somebody who knew how to do it. And so 1:50:50.840 --> 1:50:52.639 it's good to have a couple of people who had 1:50:52.680 --> 1:50:56.920 really intense, deep knowledge of skills. But the idea that 1:50:56.960 --> 1:50:59.439 you would ask someone like I need to change my 1:50:59.479 --> 1:51:02.360 bike or two because I popped it with everyone would 1:51:02.360 --> 1:51:05.280 have been kind of like really really like everyone should 1:51:05.280 --> 1:51:08.439 know how to do basic stuff and it's and it's okay, 1:51:08.600 --> 1:51:11.439 Like the whole you know, Jack of All Trades was 1:51:12.680 --> 1:51:15.719 is as a desirable goal, like it's okay to dabble 1:51:16.400 --> 1:51:19.200 in a million little things and be kind of mediocre, 1:51:19.439 --> 1:51:22.000 but have a sort of baseline understanding of a bunch 1:51:22.000 --> 1:51:25.320 of stuff. Now, you know, there's places that I kind 1:51:25.360 --> 1:51:27.519 of think that we went too far, but also, you know, 1:51:27.600 --> 1:51:33.040 before the American Healthcare Act, we all definitely did a 1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:36.240 lot of at home medcare that we should not have. 1:51:36.920 --> 1:51:39.400 But there's also a lot of low stakes places that 1:51:40.040 --> 1:51:43.479 I think people have gotten away from just practicing and 1:51:43.520 --> 1:51:46.680 trying all sorts of crafty stuff as an ethos that 1:51:46.840 --> 1:51:50.080 is actually really good and there's no harm to learning things, 1:51:50.080 --> 1:51:52.160 like you're not going to quote anything and the only 1:51:52.200 --> 1:51:53.960 thing that's going to happen is you will have more 1:51:54.080 --> 1:51:57.719 skills and more to offer the people around you. There's 1:51:57.720 --> 1:52:00.840 this idea under capitalism that we should all specialized because 1:52:00.880 --> 1:52:03.519 that is like the most profit generating thing to do 1:52:03.600 --> 1:52:05.639 is just specialize anything that makes you the most money. 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:08.720 But it's like, not only is it like not the 1:52:08.760 --> 1:52:12.600 best in a dangerous situation to only know how to 1:52:12.600 --> 1:52:14.240 do one thing that makes you money, but it's like 1:52:14.280 --> 1:52:17.160 it's not particularly good for your soul either. And there's 1:52:17.200 --> 1:52:23.760 also lots of different behavioral psychology, like group analysis of 1:52:24.520 --> 1:52:28.160 if you present people with a situation that they feel 1:52:28.200 --> 1:52:31.800 unprepared for and there's a person that they identify as 1:52:31.800 --> 1:52:33.640 an expert in a group who they can defer to 1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:37.200 pretty much every time, the group that's like, oh, we'll 1:52:37.240 --> 1:52:41.600 defer to this one expert because they know everything and 1:52:41.640 --> 1:52:44.680 we'll just do whatever they say ends up making worse decisions. 1:52:45.280 --> 1:52:48.559 Then if you have a group where everybody feels like, oh, well, 1:52:48.640 --> 1:52:51.760 I like I can at least get a handle on 1:52:51.800 --> 1:52:54.080 what's going on and we can all talk through it 1:52:54.120 --> 1:53:00.000 and like make make calls. Deferring to experts doesn't necessary 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:04.360 severally help you know, that there's obviously cases we've mentioned 1:53:04.400 --> 1:53:08.919 medical care already, where like there's actually knowledge is very important. 1:53:09.000 --> 1:53:11.559 Skill sets are very important. But the idea that there's 1:53:11.600 --> 1:53:15.479 people who are just like, yeah, inherently more knowledgeable of 1:53:15.520 --> 1:53:22.040 things that you couldn't possibly understand. Is so where where 1:53:22.040 --> 1:53:24.840 do you recommend? Like people start with, like, like, you've 1:53:24.880 --> 1:53:26.640 got a bunch of books right now, and obviously, if 1:53:26.680 --> 1:53:30.880 you can afford books, that's a good call. A lot 1:53:30.880 --> 1:53:34.679 of these books on a preserving food and like growing 1:53:34.720 --> 1:53:36.400 stuff on your lawn, but even if you don't have 1:53:36.400 --> 1:53:39.360 a lawn, you can still Like there's certain like one 1:53:39.360 --> 1:53:41.839 thing that strikes me because we've been canning and pickling 1:53:41.840 --> 1:53:45.839 a bunch lately, is you know, different vegetables and fruits 1:53:45.840 --> 1:53:48.000 and whatnot are cheaper at different points in the year. 1:53:48.280 --> 1:53:50.400 And even if you live in an apartment in the 1:53:50.439 --> 1:53:52.799 inner city and will never have more than a garden 1:53:52.880 --> 1:53:55.840 box at best, you can buy food when it's cheap 1:53:55.880 --> 1:53:59.680 and preserve it um and not only save yourself a 1:53:59.720 --> 1:54:03.679 little the money, but you can like also, uh, you'll 1:54:03.760 --> 1:54:07.040 you'll understand every time you encounter preserved food and like 1:54:07.040 --> 1:54:08.960 a grocery store, you'll be looking at a thing that 1:54:09.000 --> 1:54:11.080 you know where it comes from. It's not just like 1:54:11.120 --> 1:54:13.880 a mystery jar of preserved food that was made by 1:54:13.920 --> 1:54:18.680 some process of science. So I don't know. I'm interested in, 1:54:18.720 --> 1:54:23.080 like where you guys someone coming in having only uh 1:54:23.200 --> 1:54:25.920 specialized in whatever it is allowed them to pay the rent? 1:54:26.800 --> 1:54:31.320 Where where where's your where's your recommended start point for people? UM, 1:54:31.360 --> 1:54:33.880 I think it's picking something that is low stakes that 1:54:33.960 --> 1:54:40.240 you enjoy. Like honestly, one of my friends, um, her 1:54:40.360 --> 1:54:44.040 entry into doing d I Y stuff was, you know, 1:54:44.160 --> 1:54:45.920 she had lots of makeup and everything, and she was like, 1:54:45.960 --> 1:54:48.440 I'm going to make body scrubs? How do I do that? 1:54:48.600 --> 1:54:51.560 And you know, looked up how to make body scrubs, 1:54:51.600 --> 1:54:54.280 how to make you know, A lot of it is, oh, 1:54:54.320 --> 1:54:58.440 getting salt and grinding up rosemary that she found in 1:54:58.480 --> 1:55:01.160 someone's front yard and putting it together, you know. But 1:55:01.360 --> 1:55:05.960 just something simple that you enjoy, that you would love 1:55:06.040 --> 1:55:08.920 to be able to, you know, have a little bit 1:55:08.960 --> 1:55:13.080 more say over because it's most basic. A lot of 1:55:13.080 --> 1:55:14.640 the d I Y stuff is you can make something 1:55:14.800 --> 1:55:19.480 very specific to what you like. So for myself, actually, 1:55:19.520 --> 1:55:21.160 one of the first things I ever started doing was 1:55:21.200 --> 1:55:26.640 in high school just altering clothing. I had an old yeah, 1:55:26.960 --> 1:55:32.000 I had an old thirty dollar junk practice uh like 1:55:32.160 --> 1:55:35.680 kids sewing machine and just the cheapest one that Sears 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:41.720 used to sell, And could definitely just take that and 1:55:42.120 --> 1:55:44.640 start putting scenes in an alter clothing and be like 1:55:44.720 --> 1:55:46.480 this shirt is now a T shirt. It was long 1:55:46.520 --> 1:55:49.680 sleep before. And that also ties in with you know, 1:55:50.080 --> 1:55:52.320 d I I just to sound like old punks for 1:55:52.320 --> 1:55:54.600 a minute. That d I I definitely also came out 1:55:54.680 --> 1:55:57.280 of things like the riot girl scene in a big way, 1:55:57.400 --> 1:56:02.320 and like the attention to like body awareness and like 1:56:02.480 --> 1:56:07.000 moving away from body negativity and the recognition that as 1:56:07.000 --> 1:56:10.840 a general rule, off the rack clothes are not and 1:56:11.000 --> 1:56:16.360 certainly twenty years ago were extra not actually designed to 1:56:16.480 --> 1:56:19.360 fit most people's bodies, and it was hard to find 1:56:19.440 --> 1:56:22.440 clothes that fit you right. And yeah, so like sewing 1:56:22.560 --> 1:56:26.760 was a big one. Um bikes because we were broken, 1:56:26.840 --> 1:56:29.200 didn't have cars, so figuring out how to fix bikes 1:56:29.240 --> 1:56:32.520 and you know, everything that mechanically happens on a bike 1:56:32.680 --> 1:56:34.480 is right there and you can see it happen, and 1:56:34.560 --> 1:56:37.800 it maybe requires a screwdriver and then eventually maybe some 1:56:37.840 --> 1:56:40.920 other tools. But there's lots of three resources a lot 1:56:41.040 --> 1:56:43.120 most cities I've spent any amount of time and you 1:56:43.160 --> 1:56:46.000 can find like you can find like a community bike 1:56:46.040 --> 1:56:48.600 shop where if you have to pay anything, it's very minimal. 1:56:48.640 --> 1:56:50.080 And a lot of cases are just sort of like 1:56:50.160 --> 1:56:54.000 show up and you know there's space to use. Yeah 1:56:54.040 --> 1:56:57.880 when um, Like I know in Santa Cruz there was 1:56:57.920 --> 1:57:00.920 the bike Church. In Portland there's the bike Farm and yeah, 1:57:00.960 --> 1:57:03.160 and Philly there was also a bike church because it 1:57:03.160 --> 1:57:05.760 turns out the basements of churches are are. There were 1:57:05.800 --> 1:57:07.840 a couple of spots like that in Dallas and it's 1:57:08.000 --> 1:57:10.760 uh yeah. And I think it is like this mix of, 1:57:11.600 --> 1:57:13.400 like with the body scrub stuff, like what is something 1:57:13.400 --> 1:57:15.680 that appeals to you that you you're interested in? And 1:57:15.720 --> 1:57:18.000 also what is with the bike stuff, what is something 1:57:18.040 --> 1:57:20.960 that's like just doggedly practical, Like you get a bike, 1:57:21.240 --> 1:57:23.160 you need a bike to get around, you should probably 1:57:23.200 --> 1:57:25.600 know how to fix it on it. I think the 1:57:25.640 --> 1:57:28.040 reason I say you should pick something that appeals to 1:57:28.080 --> 1:57:33.840 you especially is because a big thing with d I 1:57:34.040 --> 1:57:37.600 Y was that you're doing it yourself, and there are 1:57:37.680 --> 1:57:40.280 so many skills that are valuable to learn from other people. 1:57:40.520 --> 1:57:43.520 It is wonderful to craft in community. It is wonderful 1:57:43.560 --> 1:57:46.240 to work with other people in community. It's wonderful to 1:57:46.320 --> 1:57:50.840 teach skills and gain them. But also I've seen this 1:57:50.960 --> 1:57:56.120 growing idea with the as specialization for so many things, 1:57:56.280 --> 1:58:01.720 especially services comes in that people are always like, oh, wow, knitting, 1:58:01.840 --> 1:58:03.440 I've always wanted to learn. I need to take a 1:58:03.480 --> 1:58:06.480 class in that, or I need to And it's really important, 1:58:06.520 --> 1:58:10.560 I think, for people to realize that you can learn things. 1:58:11.000 --> 1:58:13.160 We are very good at learning things, and you don't 1:58:13.200 --> 1:58:16.480 necessarily need a teacher for more complex things you do. 1:58:16.560 --> 1:58:19.480 But starting with something that you really like and that 1:58:19.560 --> 1:58:23.640 you find really interesting, you've already thought about it. So 1:58:23.680 --> 1:58:25.720 when you start with you know, for my friends, starting 1:58:25.720 --> 1:58:28.640 with making bath salts and face masks and stuff, it 1:58:28.720 --> 1:58:31.040 was something she had already been thinking about quite a 1:58:31.040 --> 1:58:33.960 bit and thinking about stuff. So when she started looking 1:58:33.960 --> 1:58:37.080 at recipes to mix and looking on the internet and 1:58:37.120 --> 1:58:39.400 looking at ingredients, it was saying she already cared about. 1:58:39.520 --> 1:58:43.600 So it's easier to learn something that you are interested in, 1:58:43.680 --> 1:58:46.640 and it's easier to learn something that you want to do. 1:58:46.760 --> 1:58:51.960 But we are all capable of learning for ourselves, not 1:58:52.040 --> 1:58:55.160 every single thing, but especially just for craft projects and 1:58:55.200 --> 1:58:57.360 so starting with that so that you can pick up 1:58:57.360 --> 1:58:59.360 a book, or you can read an article, or you 1:58:59.360 --> 1:59:01.840 can watch a YouTube video and you don't need to 1:59:02.000 --> 1:59:05.760 take some like hundred and fifty dollar a weekend class 1:59:05.880 --> 1:59:08.960 before you can. It's, you know, a big part of 1:59:09.000 --> 1:59:12.040 the resiliency building. Like something you may scoff, like when 1:59:12.040 --> 1:59:16.320 you're thinking about survivalism and talking about like making bath scrubs, 1:59:16.360 --> 1:59:18.840 But a lot of the skills you would learn putting 1:59:18.880 --> 1:59:22.040 that together are useful in making like a salve or 1:59:22.080 --> 1:59:26.160 making like making soap, making soap things that you actually need. 1:59:26.240 --> 1:59:28.160 Like when I was traveling, I lived on the road, 1:59:28.560 --> 1:59:30.480 like out of a car and out of backpacks for 1:59:30.640 --> 1:59:32.040 off and on all over the world for years, and 1:59:32.040 --> 1:59:33.960 I would make my own medicated because we would get 1:59:34.160 --> 1:59:36.440 we would get cuts and scrapes and rashes, and we 1:59:36.440 --> 1:59:38.960 were poor as ship and often there weren't doctors where 1:59:38.960 --> 1:59:40.840 we were. So I learned how to use things like 1:59:40.920 --> 1:59:43.800 plantain and comfrey and yarrow and like bees wax and 1:59:43.880 --> 1:59:47.400 stuff in order to to make medicated saves. And it 1:59:47.400 --> 1:59:49.440 it was something that interested me. But like there's also 1:59:49.520 --> 1:59:52.800 a lot of like there's there's a number of roots 1:59:52.840 --> 1:59:54.800 into learning that sort of thing. And if you're learning 1:59:54.800 --> 1:59:56.560 how to make again something as simple as like a 1:59:56.600 --> 2:00:00.320 face scrub, learning where to find that information and for 2:00:00.400 --> 2:00:02.920 free learning some of the basic techniques in order to 2:00:02.960 --> 2:00:08.640 do that. That learning how to learn is is applicable 2:00:08.680 --> 2:00:11.680 in a wider variety of skill sets, and it I 2:00:11.960 --> 2:00:15.320 think it's so important to focus on what are you 2:00:15.360 --> 2:00:17.680 what are you interested in first, as as opposed to 2:00:17.680 --> 2:00:19.360 just being like, okay at first, Now I have to 2:00:19.400 --> 2:00:21.600 learn how to like splint a broken arm, because like 2:00:21.840 --> 2:00:24.320 ship is gonna hit the fans, like, well, maybe focus 2:00:24.360 --> 2:00:26.840 on something that's more exciting to you first, and and 2:00:26.840 --> 2:00:29.280 and and build time in your life to learn things. 2:00:29.320 --> 2:00:32.160 That's an enjoyable process. One of the first things I did, 2:00:32.200 --> 2:00:35.160 like years ago, was I learned to sew, specifically to 2:00:35.200 --> 2:00:38.040 make a cause play because you know so, so I 2:00:38.040 --> 2:00:40.520 would just I would make me and my whole family 2:00:40.760 --> 2:00:43.040 different outfits for comic Con. So every year I would, 2:00:43.120 --> 2:00:45.440 I would sew us whole whole new things. But then 2:00:45.480 --> 2:00:47.080 not only taught me sewing, it taught me how to 2:00:47.120 --> 2:00:51.040 do like like vacuum forming to molding, how to use 2:00:51.080 --> 2:00:53.120 like a heat gun, how to use like all these 2:00:53.120 --> 2:00:56.000 other types of tools, Um, how do you like molding 2:00:56.000 --> 2:00:58.400 and casting? Like all of these types of things I 2:00:58.480 --> 2:01:01.880 learned just wanting to make silly costumes. But now they're like, 2:01:01.920 --> 2:01:04.120 you know, useful in a lot a lot of other ways. 2:01:04.520 --> 2:01:07.120 And that can be that can be expensive at the 2:01:07.200 --> 2:01:10.280 high end when you're like vacuum forming and stuff your 2:01:10.320 --> 2:01:14.080 storm trooper armor. But the cheapest side of that thing again, 2:01:14.400 --> 2:01:16.520 you can get a basic hand sewing kit for like 2:01:16.600 --> 2:01:20.480 five dollars from a Walmart. And there's also and there's 2:01:20.520 --> 2:01:23.640 maker spaces and like YouTube will do the teaching. You 2:01:23.640 --> 2:01:25.600 don't have to pay for a teacher. The Taliban learned 2:01:25.600 --> 2:01:27.960 how to fly helicopters. On YouTube, you can learn how 2:01:28.000 --> 2:01:31.240 to fix your pants. And then I think also you 2:01:31.320 --> 2:01:34.840 mentioned specialization before. It's come up a couple of times, um, 2:01:34.960 --> 2:01:38.120 and there is you know, the idea of specialization. The 2:01:38.200 --> 2:01:41.080 rationale behind specialization is, oh, well, you'll be better at 2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:43.680 it because that's what you do all the time. But 2:01:43.880 --> 2:01:47.080 that cuts both ways, because if you only do one 2:01:47.160 --> 2:01:50.320 thing all the time, then as you know, whatever the 2:01:50.360 --> 2:01:53.400 maximum threshold of your abilities is that's required of you, 2:01:53.760 --> 2:01:57.120 that becomes your baseline like whatever in your day to 2:01:57.200 --> 2:01:59.480 day life, whatever it is that you're being asked to do. 2:02:00.040 --> 2:02:03.280 That's what you feel capable of. And on the flip side, 2:02:03.280 --> 2:02:06.200 there's with with the d I I approach with like 2:02:06.240 --> 2:02:10.760 teaching yourself ship, learning interesting ship. It's also practical and 2:02:10.880 --> 2:02:12.960 important and useful to be like this is a thing 2:02:13.000 --> 2:02:15.720 that I'm gonna do on a regular basis so I'll 2:02:15.760 --> 2:02:18.680 get better at it. But also it's not you know, 2:02:19.280 --> 2:02:21.360 there was you know, the whole idea of there's what 2:02:21.440 --> 2:02:24.200 you do and then there's your job, and that these 2:02:24.320 --> 2:02:26.800 need not be the same thing, because you want to 2:02:26.800 --> 2:02:30.360 be able to think think through things in a way 2:02:30.400 --> 2:02:33.400 that's not the way you're supposed to process things to 2:02:33.440 --> 2:02:35.960 make your boss happy. That it is not just what 2:02:36.000 --> 2:02:37.880 you do when you clock in. You are more than 2:02:37.920 --> 2:02:41.720 your career, more than your career, and and and your 2:02:41.760 --> 2:02:45.360 skill set need not be purely extracted as you know, 2:02:45.520 --> 2:02:48.040 not just like Okay, I have to go do the 2:02:48.080 --> 2:02:50.120 thing in order to make money, and then everything else 2:02:50.240 --> 2:02:53.960 is consumption. Like you can you can transition, like we're 2:02:54.760 --> 2:02:57.080 and this is not a societal level solution because we 2:02:57.120 --> 2:02:58.840 talk a lot about like, well, yeah, you're not gonna 2:02:58.840 --> 2:03:01.760 you're not gonna make small person changes to fix climate change, 2:03:01.960 --> 2:03:05.680 but changing your own particular attitude on how you approach 2:03:05.720 --> 2:03:08.400 the world from one that is I I produce and 2:03:08.400 --> 2:03:11.680 that I consume to to when we're you're thinking more 2:03:11.720 --> 2:03:13.520 about resiliency and what do I know how to do 2:03:13.560 --> 2:03:16.000 and what can I learn how to do? UM is 2:03:16.880 --> 2:03:21.800 helpful in a variety of ways on the note of 2:03:21.960 --> 2:03:26.760 you know, the transferability of skills and recognizing that you 2:03:26.800 --> 2:03:28.840 already do things on a day to day basis that 2:03:28.880 --> 2:03:32.680 requires specialized knowledge and require skill sets. UM. One of 2:03:32.720 --> 2:03:35.200 the things that I try and trot out at every 2:03:35.240 --> 2:03:37.840 possible opportunity. I worked with somebody in one of those 2:03:37.920 --> 2:03:42.440 volunteer bike shop spaces down New Orleans years ago, UM, 2:03:42.480 --> 2:03:46.280 and the whole purpose of that particular space was to 2:03:46.480 --> 2:03:50.040 make the skill set of bike repare more accessible to 2:03:50.240 --> 2:03:53.920 a population that relied on bikes to get places. And 2:03:54.200 --> 2:03:57.040 one of the folks I worked there with was like 2:03:57.400 --> 2:04:01.040 a very familiarity and was great because we would have 2:04:01.400 --> 2:04:03.120 young girls come into the shop and be like, my 2:04:03.160 --> 2:04:05.760 bike doesn't work. Somebody fixed my bike. My bike doesn't work. 2:04:05.760 --> 2:04:08.040 I don't know how to fix a bike. And she 2:04:08.200 --> 2:04:11.320 was the one who would just be like, your tires flat, 2:04:11.480 --> 2:04:13.000 and they're like, yeah, I don't know how to fix it? 2:04:13.040 --> 2:04:15.000 Can you fix it? And she'd be like, well, you're 2:04:15.000 --> 2:04:17.800 wearing press on nails, right, And I'd be like yeah, 2:04:17.800 --> 2:04:19.520 I'm like cool, how do you put on your press 2:04:19.520 --> 2:04:21.400 on nails? And they walked through the steps of like, well, 2:04:21.400 --> 2:04:23.800 you sand your nails and then you put the glue 2:04:23.800 --> 2:04:26.080 on your nails, and then you hold the press on 2:04:26.200 --> 2:04:28.880 nails on your fingernails for a little while and let 2:04:28.920 --> 2:04:31.120 them set and then you're good to go. And she's like, great, 2:04:31.160 --> 2:04:34.080 you've just described exactly how you patch a bike inner tube. 2:04:34.640 --> 2:04:36.240 So now we just need to get the bike inner 2:04:36.240 --> 2:04:39.120 tube out, and here's the part that corresponds to your nail, 2:04:39.160 --> 2:04:41.480 and here's the part that corresponds like here's the glue 2:04:41.520 --> 2:04:43.960 and here's the you know, it's the same process. We 2:04:44.040 --> 2:04:45.520 just have to get the bike inner two out and 2:04:45.520 --> 2:04:47.080 then back in again. But you already know how to 2:04:47.080 --> 2:04:48.960 do the part where you make the bike tube work again, 2:04:49.720 --> 2:04:52.160 and that does hit on another important like you know, 2:04:52.280 --> 2:04:55.160 apocalypse or whatever survival point where again all of our 2:04:55.280 --> 2:04:58.000 like fiction and movies, focuses on like knowing how to 2:04:58.080 --> 2:05:00.720 use a gun or like being a wood one of 2:05:00.720 --> 2:05:03.680 the most useful skills, maybe the most useful skill you 2:05:03.680 --> 2:05:06.080 can have in any disaster situation, is being able to 2:05:06.120 --> 2:05:09.800 teach people, like like knowing how to understand figure out 2:05:09.800 --> 2:05:12.040 what people know, and how to get them the additional 2:05:12.080 --> 2:05:16.040 information they need in order to be more resilient and competent, 2:05:16.120 --> 2:05:18.920 because you're always better in a community of people who 2:05:18.960 --> 2:05:22.640 know to handle their ship than alone. And it builds 2:05:22.680 --> 2:05:25.800 on itself too. You know, we both come from different backgrounds, 2:05:25.880 --> 2:05:28.760 but as we've been together and with the different trainings 2:05:28.800 --> 2:05:31.600 that we've had in just life, the projects that we 2:05:31.640 --> 2:05:34.800 take on have become more and more complex. So you know, 2:05:35.040 --> 2:05:40.120 where I like to practice gardening and stuff and doing 2:05:40.160 --> 2:05:42.720 a little bit of woodworking and things, and now you know, 2:05:42.760 --> 2:05:47.400 we're doing various construction projects that we're kind of self taught, 2:05:47.480 --> 2:05:50.000 and we have some various home depot books on how 2:05:50.040 --> 2:05:52.720 to do them. But it's it doesn't feel nearly as 2:05:52.760 --> 2:05:56.120 intimidating because we've done steps to go to it, and 2:05:56.160 --> 2:05:57.800 because it's not an all or nothing, you don't have 2:05:57.840 --> 2:05:59.640 to suddenly be like I'm going to d I why 2:05:59.640 --> 2:06:02.160 am I in entire life? Like I definitely get that 2:06:02.200 --> 2:06:04.520 way sometimes where I'm like, I want to one day 2:06:04.560 --> 2:06:07.240 have everything in my house be made by someone that 2:06:07.360 --> 2:06:11.000 I know or myself. And it's really lovely to know 2:06:11.080 --> 2:06:13.720 crafts people or to you know, make do sit down 2:06:13.720 --> 2:06:15.640 at a pottery wheel and make your own bowls or whatever. 2:06:15.720 --> 2:06:19.240 But a lot of it is about practicing stuff when 2:06:19.280 --> 2:06:22.120 it's not an emergency so that when you later on 2:06:22.280 --> 2:06:25.800 have need or you have the ability, you have the time, 2:06:25.920 --> 2:06:28.960 like you can do a bunch of different things. So 2:06:29.280 --> 2:06:34.240 you know, we refloored the room that we're in right 2:06:34.280 --> 2:06:38.920 now like a process, but we didn't get there from nothing. 2:06:39.000 --> 2:06:41.800 And we've both done lots of different construction and measuring 2:06:41.840 --> 2:06:44.920 and other things in little bits just for fun, for work, 2:06:45.080 --> 2:06:48.880 for other stuff beforehand. And a lot of these projects 2:06:49.160 --> 2:06:52.880 are things that are fun to do as a one 2:06:52.880 --> 2:06:57.360 off as a project. I've done, you know, embroidery with 2:06:57.440 --> 2:07:00.640 my kids just for fun, not because they need too 2:07:01.200 --> 2:07:04.680 suddenly embroider all of their clothing or they have two 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:07.240 sew everything, but it's because it's a fun thing to 2:07:07.280 --> 2:07:12.000 do on a rainy day. Or you know, try fixing 2:07:12.000 --> 2:07:14.800 a book, not because there's no ability to go on 2:07:14.840 --> 2:07:17.840 Amazon and order another book. But hey, look I just 2:07:17.920 --> 2:07:19.760 we didn't add one thing to the landfill waste, and 2:07:19.760 --> 2:07:22.520 we don't have to fix all of the stuff we have. 2:07:22.680 --> 2:07:25.160 It's a one time craft. But then later on when 2:07:25.200 --> 2:07:28.320 stuff is falling apart, or when we have supply chain issues, 2:07:28.560 --> 2:07:32.360 or when stuff's not there, it's handy to know, like, oh, 2:07:32.480 --> 2:07:34.920 you know what, Like we're having water rationing right now, 2:07:35.040 --> 2:07:37.960 because during the one of the droughts that grew up 2:07:37.960 --> 2:07:40.280 in California, we had water rationing and it was my 2:07:40.320 --> 2:07:43.640 mom hauled out of the basement my grandmother's old ringer 2:07:43.680 --> 2:07:46.160 machine and we were doing the laundry and that because 2:07:46.280 --> 2:07:48.880 it could conserved a hell of a lot of water 2:07:48.920 --> 2:07:51.520 and you could use the same water for load after load. 2:07:52.280 --> 2:07:55.560 It's good to just have those things just kind of 2:07:55.560 --> 2:07:58.200 on hand that you've tried, because when an emergency hits, 2:07:58.560 --> 2:08:00.360 you don't want to be trying to search the internet 2:08:00.360 --> 2:08:02.640 are looking for something because you've never done it before 2:08:02.720 --> 2:08:06.800 and now it's necessary. And it's it's again to the 2:08:06.840 --> 2:08:10.840 point of like how the how collapse really looks versus 2:08:10.840 --> 2:08:13.600 how it's often pictured. You're not trying to replicate when 2:08:13.640 --> 2:08:15.600 you're when you're doing your own laundry. That way you're 2:08:15.600 --> 2:08:18.960 not trying to replace civilization. You're patching a hole, like 2:08:19.040 --> 2:08:21.480 and and that's a lot of building resiliency is knowing 2:08:21.480 --> 2:08:23.000 that you have. It's like it's being able to fix 2:08:23.000 --> 2:08:24.880 a bike tire, it's patching a hole. And I do 2:08:25.040 --> 2:08:29.720 want to acknowledge that, like this is a little bit 2:08:29.720 --> 2:08:34.320 more outside of the dead center of mainstream in you know, 2:08:34.400 --> 2:08:38.760 the United States and some other like wealthy industrialized countries. 2:08:38.880 --> 2:08:43.120 And it's not like it has never stopped being the 2:08:43.120 --> 2:08:46.280 way most people in the world kind of I have 2:08:47.400 --> 2:08:50.560 to tell from these people that was billeted with an Iraq. 2:08:50.760 --> 2:08:52.960 These these guys were like pulling people out of air 2:08:53.000 --> 2:08:55.880 strike craters every day, and we wanted to watch TV. 2:08:56.000 --> 2:08:58.040 One nine We were in like a bombed out mosque 2:08:58.040 --> 2:09:01.240 that Isis had been using and they had a refrigerator 2:09:01.280 --> 2:09:03.240 that worked in a TV that Isis had cut the 2:09:03.280 --> 2:09:06.760 chords with. And this guy just started pulling chords out 2:09:06.800 --> 2:09:09.920 of the fridge in about five minutes, had the TV working, 2:09:09.960 --> 2:09:12.240 had like hooked it, lashed everything together. It was like 2:09:12.240 --> 2:09:14.360 he wasn't a TV repairment or refrigerate. He just knew 2:09:14.400 --> 2:09:16.760 how electricity and ship worked and was able to figure 2:09:16.760 --> 2:09:18.520 out like, Okay, I can just put all this ship together, 2:09:19.000 --> 2:09:21.200 We're good to go. And and just also to loop 2:09:21.200 --> 2:09:24.720 back around to the whole like survival mentality a little bit. 2:09:24.920 --> 2:09:28.360 One of the things that like people that we've worked with, 2:09:28.440 --> 2:09:34.200 people who like have been in emergency situations that require, 2:09:34.760 --> 2:09:37.680 you know, complex skill sets and things that one of 2:09:37.720 --> 2:09:41.920 the big things is to have a role that you 2:09:41.960 --> 2:09:46.920 are competent in that you are ready to fulfill. So 2:09:47.040 --> 2:09:50.560 you don't have to figure out your first step. You 2:09:50.640 --> 2:09:52.960 can get moving. You can figure out your first step. 2:09:53.320 --> 2:09:56.480 So for example, in the you know, the supply chain 2:09:56.520 --> 2:09:58.680 issues that hit at the start of COVID and are 2:09:58.760 --> 2:10:02.760 hitting still and are recurring. Um the idea of like 2:10:02.880 --> 2:10:08.240 oh there's no way to like there's no laundry soap, 2:10:08.400 --> 2:10:13.000 Say okay, well we've got borax and these other making 2:10:13.080 --> 2:10:17.640 soda borax, right, we can we can make our own 2:10:17.840 --> 2:10:21.240 laundry detergent in a pinch and it'll work well enough. Cool. 2:10:21.640 --> 2:10:23.839 Don't have to have that be the thing that stresses 2:10:23.880 --> 2:10:28.240 us out and like adds to our like paralysis. Yeah, 2:10:28.280 --> 2:10:29.720 and again, a huge part of is even how you 2:10:29.760 --> 2:10:32.240 approach the problem. It's not freaking out, like oh my god, 2:10:32.280 --> 2:10:34.480 there's no laundry soap. Hell am I going to clean 2:10:34.480 --> 2:10:36.240 the clothes? It's being like, oh, there's no laundry soap, 2:10:37.280 --> 2:10:39.640 I'm gonna go online because we still have that and 2:10:39.680 --> 2:10:41.600 try to figure out either other things that can make 2:10:41.680 --> 2:10:44.480 laundry soap that there are, and like it's it's accepting. 2:10:45.000 --> 2:10:47.720 Like you talk about like wanting to be competent in 2:10:47.760 --> 2:10:49.600 a role, you don't have to know what that is 2:10:49.640 --> 2:10:51.720 from the start, as long as like the starting point 2:10:51.760 --> 2:10:54.640 isn't I'm going to be the medic I'm gonna be this, 2:10:54.800 --> 2:10:56.680 I'm gonna be the food or it's like no, I'm 2:10:56.680 --> 2:10:59.080 going to start learning how to do things I don't 2:10:59.080 --> 2:11:02.040 know how to do, and over a period of time, 2:11:02.080 --> 2:11:04.560 if I am dedicated that I will figure out the 2:11:04.560 --> 2:11:07.400 thing that I want to get most competent at. Yeah, 2:11:07.440 --> 2:11:09.880 because I mean none of none of what we've been 2:11:09.920 --> 2:11:14.200 talking about in terms of the various crafts and projects 2:11:14.240 --> 2:11:18.040 that we've undertaken, are things that are like our primary 2:11:18.080 --> 2:11:21.840 function in the world. It's just like, well, at some 2:11:21.920 --> 2:11:24.440 point it seemed like it was worth doing, and so 2:11:24.560 --> 2:11:26.280 we did some of it, and then we kept doing 2:11:26.280 --> 2:11:29.880 it now and there's always pretty good at something literally 2:11:29.920 --> 2:11:34.200 everything we've talked about. There's the you're a I don't know, 2:11:34.440 --> 2:11:37.600 bougie hipster version of like doing it expensively. Even with 2:11:37.640 --> 2:11:39.840 like woodworking, there could be a dirt cheap. I built 2:11:39.840 --> 2:11:42.080 a table for almost nothing when I was younger, because 2:11:42.080 --> 2:11:44.240 it was like, well, I found this would that the 2:11:44.240 --> 2:11:47.400 city chopped down, and I bought sand paper and staying 2:11:47.480 --> 2:11:50.400 for fifteen dollars, and then I got like a fucking 2:11:50.640 --> 2:11:53.200 base from Ikea, and I had a functional table and 2:11:53.240 --> 2:11:56.000 I figured it out using YouTube. And it's you know, 2:11:56.320 --> 2:11:58.120 not as good a table as I could have made 2:11:58.200 --> 2:12:01.040 if I had ten or thousands of dollars and woodworking tools. 2:12:01.040 --> 2:12:03.040 But I had a table for years because of it 2:12:03.640 --> 2:12:06.800 um And it's it's accepting the because I think people 2:12:06.800 --> 2:12:09.760 do get freaked out. There's such an emphasis on like 2:12:09.880 --> 2:12:12.800 having the gear, getting the equipment, stockpiling things, and like 2:12:12.920 --> 2:12:18.480 really stockpiling competency is better because yeah, and I think 2:12:18.480 --> 2:12:21.120 the Amazon wish list ability to just be like, oh, 2:12:21.160 --> 2:12:23.879 I want this specific thing, I can in three seconds 2:12:23.920 --> 2:12:25.920 look it up online and find the exact thing that 2:12:25.960 --> 2:12:29.880 I want definitely pushes in the opposite direction and makes 2:12:29.880 --> 2:12:33.960 people a little less resilient. In that capacity because there's 2:12:34.000 --> 2:12:35.640 less of that idea that you can just have stuff. 2:12:35.720 --> 2:12:37.080 And I would just say, if people want to get 2:12:37.120 --> 2:12:41.680 started with it, it's really pick something low stakes, pick 2:12:41.800 --> 2:12:48.320 something simple, because you build the abilities, you build the 2:12:48.320 --> 2:12:51.760 ability to learn. And um, I had to explained to 2:12:51.760 --> 2:12:55.080 me once, it's like a hangar. Every skill you get 2:12:55.240 --> 2:12:58.600 X as a hangar, and having really basic simple things 2:12:58.720 --> 2:13:02.400 is actually super necessary arry because even even the like 2:13:02.600 --> 2:13:08.080 hardcore primitive skills. I have some amazing books that I 2:13:08.120 --> 2:13:11.480 bought when I was eighteen, and I remember I had 2:13:11.520 --> 2:13:13.080 them and I looked through and I read it and 2:13:13.080 --> 2:13:17.840 I was like, this is like reading magic. I understand 2:13:17.960 --> 2:13:21.160 absolutely none of it. And after a few years of 2:13:21.240 --> 2:13:26.720 doing things, not even necessarily traditional skills, but just things, 2:13:26.880 --> 2:13:31.800 practicing stuff, picking stuff, there was so much more framework 2:13:31.840 --> 2:13:33.840 that I had that I looked through and suddenly there 2:13:33.920 --> 2:13:37.280 was stuff concepts that I could hang all of these 2:13:37.320 --> 2:13:42.320 incredible skills on. And we're like, oh, that never made 2:13:42.400 --> 2:13:45.160 sense to me. I understand it now because I've done 2:13:45.240 --> 2:13:48.440 simpler things and starting with thing that doesn't seem like 2:13:48.720 --> 2:13:52.839 overwhelming to learn something simple and something something most steakes, 2:13:52.840 --> 2:13:56.040 something that if you utterly mess it up. If you 2:13:56.200 --> 2:14:00.360 have a what are the like like the regret see 2:14:00.360 --> 2:14:03.800 like craft epic craft fails that it's okay, it's not 2:14:03.920 --> 2:14:07.040 a big deal because failing is part of learning. And 2:14:07.280 --> 2:14:09.560 so pick things that it's okay to fail at as 2:14:09.600 --> 2:14:12.480 your as your projects, and and don't as many of 2:14:12.600 --> 2:14:15.400 us did in the late nineties and early two thousand's 2:14:15.480 --> 2:14:18.800 when we didn't have health insurance of any description, you know, 2:14:19.120 --> 2:14:22.120 experiment on ourselves and our friends with herbs because we 2:14:22.120 --> 2:14:25.680 didn't have healthcare, access to doctors. Avoid doing that is 2:14:25.720 --> 2:14:30.120 not low stakes. Yeah, I'm about to go do open 2:14:30.160 --> 2:14:32.680 surgery on my own infected wound now that you've told 2:14:32.680 --> 2:14:36.000 me this, and I'm really excited, really excited. I got 2:14:36.440 --> 2:14:38.880 I got an exact deal, I got some vodka. At 2:14:38.920 --> 2:14:42.880 least we're good to go. No, the key is really 2:14:43.080 --> 2:14:50.920 hot glue, same as I have similar because then it 2:14:51.040 --> 2:14:55.680 sterilizes the wound, hardly doesn't stick to anything. This is 2:14:55.720 --> 2:14:57.440 how I know you are not a crafter or is 2:14:57.480 --> 2:15:00.760 hot glue does not stick to anything. You just you 2:15:01.120 --> 2:15:02.800 squirt it in there, You get it in there real good, 2:15:02.800 --> 2:15:05.360 and then you cover it with with superglue. I do 2:15:05.440 --> 2:15:08.440 have a grand plug in the world. I would put 2:15:08.480 --> 2:15:11.120 superglue in first. I do have a grandpa that has 2:15:11.200 --> 2:15:14.560 used superglue so many times sticklue his body back together. 2:15:14.600 --> 2:15:20.880 It is that's very funny, it's effective at that. Anyway, 2:15:21.280 --> 2:15:24.440 here's our medical advice. Don't do any of the things 2:15:24.520 --> 2:15:26.440 that we just said. But if you do want to 2:15:26.520 --> 2:15:29.040 learn how to do suitos, you can find guides where 2:15:29.040 --> 2:15:30.840 people do it on chicken, which is how if you're 2:15:30.840 --> 2:15:32.440 an E M T you learn how to do it. 2:15:32.520 --> 2:15:34.400 And it's that's a that is a skill you can 2:15:34.440 --> 2:15:36.640 build for very little money. That's useful and you don't 2:15:36.680 --> 2:15:39.000 have to start on your friends bodies. And I will 2:15:39.040 --> 2:15:42.879 put in a plug for like wilderness first aid courses 2:15:43.080 --> 2:15:47.480 are not cheap and there are some real good ones 2:15:47.520 --> 2:15:50.320 out there, and as a as like a baseline that 2:15:50.520 --> 2:15:53.360 is a real handy and helps you think about things 2:15:53.360 --> 2:15:57.120 creatively because wilderness first aid unlike an ambulance driver. An 2:15:57.160 --> 2:15:59.080 ambulance driver is driving in a box with all the 2:15:59.080 --> 2:16:02.400 tools they need, and wilderness first aid the assumption is 2:16:03.000 --> 2:16:05.760 don't have a box. You don't have to and so 2:16:05.840 --> 2:16:09.120 you have to work it out probably you know, uh, 2:16:09.200 --> 2:16:11.920 some plantain or something or some the right fucking kind 2:16:11.960 --> 2:16:15.560 of sap. There's like ship you can use which we 2:16:15.600 --> 2:16:17.920 will not proceed to attempt to lift off here and 2:16:17.960 --> 2:16:23.520 provide medical advice. Don't go to a doctor, No use 2:16:23.600 --> 2:16:27.280 pine needles, make your own needle t don't go to 2:16:27.320 --> 2:16:30.960 the craft books, cure your COVID, find a bee hive 2:16:31.080 --> 2:16:37.560 and start sucking. And the other sources are any other 2:16:37.640 --> 2:16:42.080 sources are you have a great book called Making stuff 2:16:42.120 --> 2:16:44.920 and Doing Things from way back in the day, definitely 2:16:44.920 --> 2:16:48.200 recommend that one. Um country know how, like there's some 2:16:48.640 --> 2:16:52.560 a lot of old craft books actually, um, the entire 2:16:53.040 --> 2:16:58.400 back collection of the Mother Earth magazine skills stuff like 2:16:58.640 --> 2:17:02.240 I have definitely made any steadying magazine, not Emma Goldman's 2:17:02.240 --> 2:17:06.880 anarchist newspaper, but I've definitely made solar powered dehydrators out 2:17:06.920 --> 2:17:10.920 of cardboard boxes and saran rap from the from Mother 2:17:10.959 --> 2:17:15.280 Earth magazine stuff. And it's absolutely fantastically just old school 2:17:15.280 --> 2:17:18.040 guide books, um. And but also anything that's listened as 2:17:18.040 --> 2:17:20.080 like d I Y guides that have stuff that you 2:17:20.120 --> 2:17:23.039 would like to make and like to do are great. 2:17:23.200 --> 2:17:27.560 The library is great. Use the library. Research librarians at 2:17:27.600 --> 2:17:30.640 the library are great. And if you're like I'm trying 2:17:30.680 --> 2:17:32.880 to learn how to do this thing? Can you help 2:17:32.920 --> 2:17:35.720 me find books on it? Research librarians at the library 2:17:35.800 --> 2:17:38.440 they have doctorates in how to help you do that, 2:17:38.600 --> 2:17:40.680 and that's they just sit at desks all day waiting 2:17:40.680 --> 2:17:44.120 for me. And what you'll learn from them about how 2:17:44.160 --> 2:17:47.000 to answer those questions for yourself is also useful in 2:17:47.040 --> 2:17:50.520 their long run. We'll go out and make a reflux. 2:17:50.520 --> 2:17:56.080 Still is that legal? Well, no, not in most places, 2:17:56.080 --> 2:17:58.360 but it's easy. You just need a box inside of 2:17:58.360 --> 2:18:00.880 a box and you pour old beer in the center box. 2:18:02.680 --> 2:18:19.000 That's the episode. After thirty years, it's time to return 2:18:19.040 --> 2:18:21.320 to the halls of West Beverly High and hang out 2:18:21.360 --> 2:18:23.920 at the peach pit. On the podcast nine O two one, 2:18:24.000 --> 2:18:27.520 OMG joined Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling for a rewatch 2:18:27.520 --> 2:18:30.240 of the hit series Beverly Hills nine O two one oh. 2:18:30.240 --> 2:18:33.360 From the very beginning, we get to tell the fans 2:18:33.560 --> 2:18:36.240 all of the behind the scenes stories to actually happen, 2:18:36.360 --> 2:18:39.160 so they know what happened on camera obviously, but we 2:18:39.200 --> 2:18:41.800 can tell them all the good stuff that happened off camera. 2:18:41.879 --> 2:18:44.680 Get all the juicy details of every episode that you've 2:18:44.720 --> 2:18:47.400 been wondering about for decades. As nine O two one oh. 2:18:47.480 --> 2:18:50.320 Super fan and radio host Sisson E sits in with 2:18:50.440 --> 2:18:54.039 Jenny and Tory two reminisce, reflect and relive each moment, 2:18:54.120 --> 2:18:58.080 from Brandon and Kelly's first kiss to shouting. Donna Martin graduates, 2:18:58.360 --> 2:19:02.240 you have an amazing memory. You remember everything about the 2:19:02.400 --> 2:19:05.000 entire ten years that we filmed that show, and you 2:19:05.200 --> 2:19:08.520 remember absolutely nothing of the ten years that we filmed 2:19:08.720 --> 2:19:11.600 that show. Listen to nine O two one O MG 2:19:11.800 --> 2:19:14.440 on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 2:19:14.480 --> 2:19:18.640 you get your podcasts. Adoption of teens from foster care 2:19:18.680 --> 2:19:20.920 is a topic not enough people know about, and we're 2:19:20.959 --> 2:19:23.440 here to change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of the 2:19:23.480 --> 2:19:27.600 new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt Us Kids. Each 2:19:27.640 --> 2:19:31.280 episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told by 2:19:31.280 --> 2:19:34.360 the families that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit 2:19:34.440 --> 2:19:37.880 adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe to 2:19:38.000 --> 2:19:41.320 Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to you 2:19:41.360 --> 2:19:43.279 by the U. S Department of Health, that Human Services 2:19:43.320 --> 2:19:53.119 Administration for Children and Families, and the ACT Council. What's 2:19:53.520 --> 2:20:00.120 Avoiding Starvation? My autonomous neighborhood collectives. Uh, this is it 2:20:00.160 --> 2:20:03.920 could happen here a podcast about things not being as 2:20:03.920 --> 2:20:06.960 good as they are and trying to make them better. 2:20:07.680 --> 2:20:11.640 I'm Robert Evans, my co host today as many days, 2:20:11.920 --> 2:20:15.560 Garrison Davis Garrison say hello to the people, high people, Garrison. 2:20:15.600 --> 2:20:16.879 What are we? What are we? What do we? What 2:20:16.920 --> 2:20:18.040 do we? What do we? What do we? What do 2:20:18.200 --> 2:20:24.760 we do? What do we do? What are we doing today? 2:20:25.320 --> 2:20:31.599 Thank you? We are going to be having a discussion 2:20:31.879 --> 2:20:37.960 on um food and food preservation and finding you mean 2:20:38.000 --> 2:20:41.200 like putting in the freezer. Well, what if the freezer 2:20:41.280 --> 2:20:44.840 is not working? The freezer is always working. This is America. 2:20:45.560 --> 2:20:51.960 Thanks never breaking the power goes out for two weeks. Well, 2:20:51.959 --> 2:20:55.080 that's one of our guests for today. My friends be 2:20:55.200 --> 2:20:58.240 in a lane um who you've heard earlier this week, 2:20:58.280 --> 2:21:01.040 and we're going to talk about food storage and particularly 2:21:01.120 --> 2:21:03.680 again our focus this week is like we keep getting 2:21:03.680 --> 2:21:06.320 a lot of people being like I have no money 2:21:06.480 --> 2:21:08.879 or very little money or very little space. I'm not 2:21:08.879 --> 2:21:11.120 gonna be able to grow things. How can I possibly 2:21:11.720 --> 2:21:15.120 you know, gather food store food, like build resiliency. I 2:21:15.160 --> 2:21:18.160 don't have any any kind of farmland. And the good 2:21:18.160 --> 2:21:21.040 news is no matter where you live, things that are 2:21:21.120 --> 2:21:23.920 edible grow and you can get those things and you 2:21:23.959 --> 2:21:25.920 can find ways to make them last longer than they 2:21:25.920 --> 2:21:28.240 would if you just kept them in a sack. And 2:21:28.400 --> 2:21:29.920 that's a pretty cool thing to do. So I'm going 2:21:29.959 --> 2:21:32.120 to hand it over to be in a lane. I 2:21:32.200 --> 2:21:35.520 love that. Okay, I don't have much space, I don't 2:21:35.520 --> 2:21:38.480 have much money. Was kind of how I got into 2:21:38.840 --> 2:21:43.440 doing canning in the first place. For myself, I used 2:21:43.440 --> 2:21:46.440 to be very very poor. I was on food stamps, 2:21:46.480 --> 2:21:49.880 I had no money. I was a broke punk. And 2:21:50.280 --> 2:21:52.640 one of my friends was like, oh, man, there's this 2:21:52.760 --> 2:21:55.880 farmer at the farmer's market, and if you help them 2:21:55.920 --> 2:21:59.600 clean up, they'll let you take away whatever leftover produce 2:21:59.680 --> 2:22:02.280 they have of that they don't want. So you can 2:22:02.320 --> 2:22:04.520 just load up a bag with produce. All you gotta 2:22:04.560 --> 2:22:06.520 do is help them load the truck at the end 2:22:06.560 --> 2:22:11.039 of the day. So that's what I did every single 2:22:11.959 --> 2:22:16.480 Wednesday for the next five years, no matter what come, 2:22:16.520 --> 2:22:19.440 hell or high water. But with that that also came 2:22:19.760 --> 2:22:23.320 there's you started realizing that there's gluts and then lacks 2:22:23.360 --> 2:22:27.760 of things. Um much like you know, everything that's happening 2:22:27.760 --> 2:22:31.400 in society now, just in general, there was seasons when 2:22:31.440 --> 2:22:33.959 there was nothing but you were It was easy to 2:22:34.120 --> 2:22:36.520 at the end of a farmer's market day walk home 2:22:36.920 --> 2:22:41.560 with a fifty pound flat of tomatoes, and you know 2:22:41.680 --> 2:22:44.400 times of the year where it was nothing but cabbage 2:22:44.800 --> 2:22:47.080 and you might have wanted tomatoes a lot. And canning 2:22:47.160 --> 2:22:49.879 was great because it helped to equal out when I 2:22:49.879 --> 2:22:52.800 could get things without having to dive into the you know, 2:22:53.240 --> 2:22:55.360 sixty books a month I got in food stamps and 2:22:55.400 --> 2:22:58.080 spend it at the farmers market. On that instead, I 2:22:58.080 --> 2:23:00.879 could use it to have a variety of vegetables or 2:23:00.920 --> 2:23:05.000 canned goods or other things in order to flavor my raman. Yeah. 2:23:05.120 --> 2:23:09.040 I first came at this kind of from working on farms, 2:23:09.320 --> 2:23:12.840 where similarly there are gluts. There are times of year 2:23:12.920 --> 2:23:18.560 where you literally cannot eat melons fast enough, and everybody 2:23:18.560 --> 2:23:20.800 who works on farms talked about getting the melon ships 2:23:20.879 --> 2:23:23.320 because you're eating as many melons as you possibly can, 2:23:23.440 --> 2:23:25.400 and it turns out that doesn't always agree with you. 2:23:26.000 --> 2:23:30.560 Um and uh. And then you know there's the time 2:23:30.560 --> 2:23:33.440 of year where, well, if you want to eat some 2:23:33.879 --> 2:23:38.400 month old potatoes and some two month old squash and 2:23:38.520 --> 2:23:43.520 maybe some storage cabbage great, and otherwise there's no produce 2:23:43.560 --> 2:23:46.600 to be had. So preserving food is well, there's a 2:23:46.600 --> 2:23:48.920 lot of different ways to do it, and it seems 2:23:48.920 --> 2:23:50.959 really intense a lot of the time because people talk 2:23:51.000 --> 2:23:53.440 about like batchul is um, you're going to die of 2:23:53.440 --> 2:23:57.360 battulism if you have home canned food. And so first off, 2:23:57.440 --> 2:24:01.600 there's just to dispel a lot of myths about things. 2:24:01.920 --> 2:24:07.160 There's actually really really really low instances of botuli is 2:24:07.240 --> 2:24:09.920 um um. I'm not going to say it doesn't happen, 2:24:10.240 --> 2:24:14.680 but there's actually very few cases of bauchuli is um 2:24:14.720 --> 2:24:17.119 per year, and a lot of them are from industrial 2:24:17.160 --> 2:24:20.840 canned goods. Don't eat a can if it's bowing out 2:24:20.879 --> 2:24:24.720 in the sides of the top, throw the can, well 2:24:24.879 --> 2:24:27.280 bury the can, bury it in the woods far away. 2:24:27.720 --> 2:24:30.480 But then also beyond canning, there's a lot of different 2:24:30.480 --> 2:24:32.520 ways of food preservation. You know, you were joking about, like, 2:24:33.160 --> 2:24:35.520 but don't toss it in the freezer. I don't know. 2:24:35.720 --> 2:24:38.040 I toss a lot of things in the freezer. Shouldn't 2:24:38.120 --> 2:24:41.400 not a bad idea? Yeah, I mean, we got all 2:24:41.440 --> 2:24:44.400 sorts of animals from the farm in the freezer right now, 2:24:44.440 --> 2:24:47.760 We've got a lot of blueberries because a couple of squirrels. 2:24:48.959 --> 2:24:52.680 Yeah that was a random thing. Um, just just some 2:24:52.760 --> 2:24:57.400 squirrels on the side for squirrel for heat is, but yeah, 2:24:57.600 --> 2:25:01.000 they were the trumpet. Having a freezer is a bad idea. 2:25:01.160 --> 2:25:04.560 It's just that the freezer depends on, you know, having 2:25:04.920 --> 2:25:09.080 power or at least having a backup power source or 2:25:09.120 --> 2:25:15.080 a generator or or or um. And in the case 2:25:15.240 --> 2:25:17.880 that you don't have access to those things, or can't 2:25:17.879 --> 2:25:21.000 afford to get a whole extra freezer, and that fills 2:25:21.040 --> 2:25:24.720 up a substantial part of or can't afford the power 2:25:24.760 --> 2:25:28.280 the freezer. Um. You know, we we definitely saw this 2:25:28.320 --> 2:25:33.520 past winter with the power outages that were caused by um, 2:25:33.560 --> 2:25:38.040 you know, in clement weather, and it suddenly became very 2:25:38.080 --> 2:25:43.760 hard to acquire dry ice because dry ice will keep 2:25:43.840 --> 2:25:47.800 stuff cold for longer. But everybody who's gone camping and 2:25:47.879 --> 2:25:50.720 use dry ice and they're cooler knows that. So as 2:25:50.760 --> 2:25:53.840 soon as there's an interruption in people's ability to refrigerate 2:25:53.879 --> 2:25:57.480 their food, the entire regional stock of dry ice is 2:25:57.520 --> 2:26:00.800 going to disappear. So what we're looking at more in 2:26:00.879 --> 2:26:02.520 what we're talking about today is a little bit more 2:26:02.720 --> 2:26:06.199 like the things that you don't need to keep anywhere, 2:26:06.240 --> 2:26:10.680 but like a cabinet that maybe doesn't get boiling hot, 2:26:10.879 --> 2:26:13.840 and if it's sort of a room temperature cabinet, you 2:26:13.879 --> 2:26:17.520 can store a lot of stuff. I've personally found the 2:26:17.560 --> 2:26:20.320 backs of closets, like, think about all of the areas 2:26:20.360 --> 2:26:22.720 that you don't clean that you're like, I just shove 2:26:22.800 --> 2:26:25.160 things back here and hope that they disappear because I 2:26:25.160 --> 2:26:27.600 don't actually care about them, or like the backs of 2:26:27.640 --> 2:26:30.840 broom closets. Um that actually, for a long time was 2:26:30.879 --> 2:26:32.920 my place where I would store canned goods because you 2:26:32.920 --> 2:26:36.400 can just stack the palettes of jars, the flats of them. 2:26:36.400 --> 2:26:40.440 Because if you buy jars from this supermarket, um buy 2:26:40.560 --> 2:26:45.280 mar Canning stores anywhere, safe Way has them, Walmart has them, 2:26:45.600 --> 2:26:48.800 you can They're not expensive. You can just they come 2:26:48.800 --> 2:26:50.960 in a little square flat and so after I would 2:26:50.959 --> 2:26:52.640 fill them, I just put them all back in there 2:26:52.680 --> 2:26:55.240 and then I could just stack those as a little 2:26:55.280 --> 2:26:58.480 tower and then you know, hand them out as gifts 2:26:58.480 --> 2:27:01.199 for the rest of the year, which is also definitely 2:27:01.240 --> 2:27:03.440 saying that you do when you have absolutely no money 2:27:03.480 --> 2:27:05.320 and people are like, oh, we're having a New Year's 2:27:05.320 --> 2:27:07.440 Eve party. And you're like, I brought you jam, and 2:27:07.440 --> 2:27:12.320 they're like, oh, great, blueberry lovely, but it's nice, has 2:27:12.360 --> 2:27:16.760 something to be you can give people beyond canning because sometimes, 2:27:16.800 --> 2:27:19.960 like right now, it's incredibly hard to find the metal 2:27:20.080 --> 2:27:23.360 lids that go on canning jars or in some cases 2:27:23.400 --> 2:27:27.760 the jars. That's actually was recently looking for more jar 2:27:27.920 --> 2:27:30.760 lids and ended up buying flats of jars instead, because 2:27:31.240 --> 2:27:34.959 as four different stores told me, there's a supply chain 2:27:35.040 --> 2:27:38.520 disruption in getting jar lids. There's also a lot of 2:27:38.520 --> 2:27:42.240 ways that you can preserve stuff with drying. You can 2:27:42.400 --> 2:27:46.200 also do a lot with salt, vinegar and sugar preserving 2:27:46.240 --> 2:27:50.480 as well, so that you don't necessarily need the recealable 2:27:50.560 --> 2:27:53.160 jars or like new lids for that. So there's a 2:27:53.160 --> 2:27:57.000 bunch of different methods um lact of fermentation as well, 2:27:57.160 --> 2:28:00.160 like fermenting things. So what would you like to talk 2:28:00.200 --> 2:28:02.760 about first? Let's start with just like what is what 2:28:02.879 --> 2:28:05.520 is the actual process of canning beyond like just dumping 2:28:05.520 --> 2:28:08.320 stuff into a can and sealing it. Um. So there's 2:28:08.800 --> 2:28:13.199 canning by itself is ceiling jars with heat. So that 2:28:13.600 --> 2:28:19.560 was oh God really really came into its own around 2:28:19.600 --> 2:28:23.240 like World War two was like industrial canning. And the 2:28:23.320 --> 2:28:28.720 thing about it is even within canning, there's two different types. 2:28:28.800 --> 2:28:31.560 There's low heat and high heat canning. Low heat is 2:28:31.560 --> 2:28:35.880 actually just boiling water temperature, and high heat you actually 2:28:35.879 --> 2:28:39.520 need to go above the temperature of boiling water so 2:28:40.520 --> 2:28:43.480 you can pressure can. Um you need a pressure cooker. 2:28:43.680 --> 2:28:47.600 They terrify me. I don't pressure can because I haven't 2:28:47.760 --> 2:28:51.320 quite gotten over the images of when they explode and 2:28:51.360 --> 2:28:53.720 give people steam burns um. I know plenty of people 2:28:53.720 --> 2:28:56.440 who do pressure can and it's great for them. You 2:28:56.440 --> 2:28:59.680 can pressure can at high heat. Anything. You can toss 2:29:00.040 --> 2:29:02.440 raw fish or raw meat in oil and jars or 2:29:02.440 --> 2:29:04.480 in water in jars, and you can pressure can it 2:29:04.560 --> 2:29:07.440 and it will cook and seal the jars and it 2:29:07.560 --> 2:29:12.240 is very safe. Low temperature canning is still relying on 2:29:12.240 --> 2:29:15.520 one of the other methods like salt, sugar, acid for 2:29:15.720 --> 2:29:19.440 the to keep down bacteria. So all it does, though 2:29:19.440 --> 2:29:21.240 is it makes the same so you can do this 2:29:21.320 --> 2:29:23.920 with or without canning. It just makes the jars keep 2:29:23.959 --> 2:29:27.680 a lot longer because it preserves them. So it's the 2:29:27.680 --> 2:29:30.400 process of you take a jar and then you either 2:29:30.560 --> 2:29:34.360 use a clean ring if you're using those latching reusable 2:29:34.440 --> 2:29:36.840 jars with these nice rings on them that you can 2:29:36.920 --> 2:29:39.360 use over and over again. Really handy when there are 2:29:39.360 --> 2:29:41.879 supply chain disruptions to know that you can reuse your 2:29:42.000 --> 2:29:44.280 jar and ring. We're talking about like the Mason jars 2:29:44.320 --> 2:29:47.680 that you you you would get in uh bars that 2:29:47.720 --> 2:29:49.760 are too expensive five years ago. They would pour your 2:29:49.800 --> 2:29:52.039 terrible I P A in them. Yeah, but you can 2:29:52.120 --> 2:29:54.520 use them for other things too. These are the well 2:29:54.560 --> 2:29:58.000 there's two. There's the jars that have a lid that 2:29:58.160 --> 2:30:02.520 is attached and it latch, oh with the YEA and 2:30:02.560 --> 2:30:06.240 so those have a Those have a rubber gas that 2:30:06.320 --> 2:30:08.520 you can and as long as you keep those oiled 2:30:08.520 --> 2:30:10.720 and clean, you can reuse those for years. They do 2:30:10.800 --> 2:30:13.840 eventually wear out, but they use a long time. Others 2:30:13.920 --> 2:30:18.039 is Mason or Ball canning jars, and those actually have 2:30:18.320 --> 2:30:21.800 a two piece top. They have a middle ring that 2:30:21.879 --> 2:30:23.920 you just need to make sure it's not like horrifically 2:30:24.000 --> 2:30:26.840 dented or rusted throat. It's reusable for a very long time. 2:30:26.879 --> 2:30:29.360 And then you have a lid and the lid can 2:30:29.400 --> 2:30:32.119 only really they are recommended to only use once I've 2:30:32.160 --> 2:30:34.640 re used them like twice. May used to can once 2:30:34.680 --> 2:30:36.720 you can like once it's canned and you you can 2:30:36.720 --> 2:30:38.200 take stuff out put it back on. You don't have 2:30:38.240 --> 2:30:40.520 to like replace the lid every time you get some 2:30:40.560 --> 2:30:43.240 preserves out. Yeah, but the tiny piece of rubber that 2:30:43.360 --> 2:30:45.840 is what steals it is very thin and so it's 2:30:45.879 --> 2:30:51.840 not very reusable for multiple can't batches of food and 2:30:51.840 --> 2:30:55.039 and true to farm. You know, if you go looking 2:30:55.080 --> 2:31:01.840 around in you know, rummage sales, vintage stores, whatever, you 2:31:01.879 --> 2:31:05.879 will probably find either very cheap or very overpriced some 2:31:06.000 --> 2:31:10.160 of those old hinged jars and tons of Mason jars 2:31:10.200 --> 2:31:12.520 and tons of Mason jars. You will often need to 2:31:12.560 --> 2:31:17.039 replace either the lids or the rubber gaskets in order 2:31:17.080 --> 2:31:19.680 to make them safe to star food in. But in 2:31:19.720 --> 2:31:24.040 either case, whether you're using the little the mason or 2:31:24.080 --> 2:31:26.160 ball jars that you'll find in lots of stores or 2:31:26.200 --> 2:31:28.959 the big latching ones, um, the jars are the more 2:31:28.959 --> 2:31:33.359 expensive spots things. The lids and the rubber rings are 2:31:33.400 --> 2:31:36.959 more inexpensive to replace. So if you can find them 2:31:37.000 --> 2:31:40.440 at Goodwill, if you can find them at Goodwill bins 2:31:40.800 --> 2:31:44.480 or the places, it's great, you should always grab them. 2:31:44.640 --> 2:31:50.039 Jars are never a bad idea, so canning. There's a 2:31:50.080 --> 2:31:56.640 million different ways to can. I do a lot of jams, jellies, pickles, 2:31:56.720 --> 2:31:59.360 and tomatoes, which are all things that are camped that 2:31:59.400 --> 2:32:03.160 are preserved either with acid or sugar. In either case, Um, 2:32:03.280 --> 2:32:05.520 James and jella is being sugar and pickles and stuff 2:32:05.520 --> 2:32:09.520 being acid. Yes, those are my two favorites. They're very 2:32:09.560 --> 2:32:12.840 simple to learn, and then you can always expand recipes 2:32:12.879 --> 2:32:16.640 and everything else. Um. But with pickles and tomatoes and 2:32:16.680 --> 2:32:21.039 other things, having the PHB very acidic is what actually 2:32:21.040 --> 2:32:25.000 does the preservation of the food and keeps down fungus is, molds, 2:32:25.080 --> 2:32:29.040 bacterias and stuff. And with jams and jellies, the natural 2:32:29.360 --> 2:32:32.960 acidity of the fruit mixed with a lot of sugar 2:32:33.800 --> 2:32:37.720 is what keeps the fruits from going bad or anything. 2:32:38.240 --> 2:32:40.320 And the great thing about canning fruit is that, like 2:32:40.360 --> 2:32:42.480 when you when you're thinking about what is the greatest 2:32:42.520 --> 2:32:45.360 number of free calories available to most people in a 2:32:45.440 --> 2:32:49.040 city during the seasons where fruit grows, it's often going 2:32:49.080 --> 2:32:51.400 to be fruit, And like you, you'd be surprised. Like 2:32:51.400 --> 2:32:53.119 where you can do like Los Angeles where I used 2:32:53.120 --> 2:32:56.480 to live, there was much of the year, like seven 2:32:56.520 --> 2:32:58.600 eight months you could fill your arms with fruit if 2:32:58.640 --> 2:33:00.520 you knew where to go and there's an app falling 2:33:00.520 --> 2:33:03.240 fruit that you can use to find people mark like 2:33:03.240 --> 2:33:05.880 where different trees are a lot of like you'll be 2:33:05.920 --> 2:33:07.800 surprised even if you think, like, well, there's no fruit 2:33:07.879 --> 2:33:10.000 in my area, to try falling fruit, you you may 2:33:10.040 --> 2:33:11.959 find that out. Actually there's a shipload of fruit. And 2:33:11.959 --> 2:33:14.560 I just was not looking or as you often find, 2:33:14.600 --> 2:33:16.600 I didn't realize that was an edible plant. I assume 2:33:16.640 --> 2:33:20.280 those berries were. We're not food and they can be. 2:33:20.440 --> 2:33:23.760 And and that's a lot of like free you know 2:33:23.760 --> 2:33:26.400 when you especially when you're making preserves that's really calorically dense. 2:33:27.040 --> 2:33:29.600 And and that also ties in with in the sort 2:33:29.600 --> 2:33:34.680 of survival utility aspect of this, because like canning is fun, 2:33:34.760 --> 2:33:37.720 and harvesting fruit is fun, and having stuff you made 2:33:38.480 --> 2:33:42.400 to feel pomegranates from rich people's houses do it, sure, absolutely, 2:33:42.440 --> 2:33:44.760 I mean, but part of part of the other thing 2:33:44.800 --> 2:33:47.760 to think about here is that like providing yourself with 2:33:47.800 --> 2:33:52.840 a reserve of different kinds of nutrition and different like 2:33:52.920 --> 2:33:56.600 there's you get an assortment of stuff so you know 2:33:56.720 --> 2:34:00.160 you aren't having to constantly buy it because honestly, the 2:34:00.200 --> 2:34:03.199 most expensive in terms of carbon output. The most expensive 2:34:03.240 --> 2:34:08.640 in terms of cost per calorie in grocery stores tends 2:34:08.720 --> 2:34:10.920 to come from the stuff that's you know, been shipped 2:34:10.959 --> 2:34:13.640 up from Argentina because it's not in season up here. 2:34:13.800 --> 2:34:17.039 That's while you're getting grapes in January, right and blueberries, 2:34:17.080 --> 2:34:19.800 you can actually watch them move all the way down 2:34:19.800 --> 2:34:22.760 the northern hemisphere over the course of the growing season 2:34:22.840 --> 2:34:25.160 until they're like growing them down in Chile right before 2:34:25.200 --> 2:34:27.720 they start being able to grow them again. So yeah, 2:34:27.800 --> 2:34:31.000 So just thinking about like the things that are available 2:34:31.120 --> 2:34:33.440 when they are available, um. And you'll see this all 2:34:33.480 --> 2:34:36.640 the time, like the good forage spots. When they're available, 2:34:36.680 --> 2:34:41.720 there will be crowds of people all they're all collecting stuff, um. 2:34:41.840 --> 2:34:45.760 And getting to know some of the things that you 2:34:45.920 --> 2:34:49.440 like and that grow near you and what time of 2:34:49.600 --> 2:34:54.040 year they come into season, and maybe forming some relationships 2:34:54.080 --> 2:34:56.920 with people and being like, hey, I noticed you have 2:34:57.600 --> 2:35:00.640 a chestnut tree in your backyard. Can I come and 2:35:00.840 --> 2:35:05.320 harvest chestnuts? Hey, you have this kind of oak, Can 2:35:05.360 --> 2:35:07.520 I come and get acorns from you? Because I want 2:35:07.560 --> 2:35:10.600 to do a leeching project. Hey, I was grabbing apples 2:35:10.600 --> 2:35:13.160 and I noticed that you're harvesting all these acorns. I 2:35:13.160 --> 2:35:15.120 didn't know that you could do anything with acorns. What 2:35:15.200 --> 2:35:18.040 is what are you doing with all those acorns? And 2:35:18.040 --> 2:35:20.480 one of the greatest things, too, is that a good 2:35:20.520 --> 2:35:23.840 fruit tree makes a lot of fruit. So much so, 2:35:23.920 --> 2:35:27.320 you know, we have a little plum that's near our house. 2:35:27.480 --> 2:35:31.120 It's a little plum tree. And since this year we 2:35:31.200 --> 2:35:33.360 managed to get to it before the raccoon did that 2:35:33.440 --> 2:35:37.600 likes to clamber over the roof. We got about two 2:35:38.040 --> 2:35:41.560 and fifty pounds of plums off of the small fruit tree. 2:35:42.120 --> 2:35:44.240 And it is not very big. It has a footprint 2:35:44.400 --> 2:35:48.480 of maybe about ten ft in diameter of the widest 2:35:48.480 --> 2:35:51.080 part of the tree. But it drops quite a bit 2:35:51.080 --> 2:35:52.560 of fruit, especially if we get to it before it 2:35:52.600 --> 2:35:54.600 all drops on the ground and our cars and the 2:35:54.680 --> 2:35:57.680 driveway and the walkway and the cat and the cat. 2:35:57.920 --> 2:36:01.320 But if we get to it, it's a lot. So honestly, 2:36:01.360 --> 2:36:04.880 I set aside about a fifty pound tub that was like, okay, 2:36:04.879 --> 2:36:07.200 we're gonna make some jam. We're gonna dry some of these, 2:36:07.200 --> 2:36:09.200 we're going to do things with it, and the rest 2:36:09.240 --> 2:36:11.280 we were able to give to friends. We toss some 2:36:11.320 --> 2:36:13.080 of the free fridges, We toss some all you know, 2:36:13.160 --> 2:36:16.520 we handed out because one good fruit tree makes a lot. 2:36:16.560 --> 2:36:18.840 So when you see fruit trees around town, when you 2:36:18.879 --> 2:36:23.440 walk under someone's cherry tree, it's okay to ask for 2:36:23.600 --> 2:36:26.560 fruit too, because I don't know anyone that uses every 2:36:26.600 --> 2:36:28.760 single piece of fruit off of any other fruit trees. 2:36:29.400 --> 2:36:31.480 And you know, one of the things that you will 2:36:31.520 --> 2:36:35.720 see is that um a lot of cities try to 2:36:35.800 --> 2:36:42.640 discourage people from planting fruit trees along roads precisely because 2:36:42.800 --> 2:36:45.440 when they come into fruit, they produce so much fruit 2:36:45.480 --> 2:36:48.480 that it causes the problem. Also, it's a good way 2:36:48.480 --> 2:36:51.480 to form relationships in your neighborhood. You say like, hey, 2:36:51.760 --> 2:36:54.440 we have a whole bunch of plums, we have a 2:36:54.520 --> 2:36:58.080 ton of whatever is dropping all over your front yard. 2:36:58.520 --> 2:37:02.280 And then your neighbors may be like, oh, those weirdos 2:37:02.280 --> 2:37:05.480 who were collecting fruit that one time. This tree in 2:37:05.560 --> 2:37:07.920 my backyard that's about to drop all this stuff. I'll 2:37:08.000 --> 2:37:10.000 let them know and maybe they'll come so I don't 2:37:10.000 --> 2:37:13.120 have to clean it up afterwards. Yeah, which is again, 2:37:13.160 --> 2:37:15.200 like people, we talk a lot about the importance of 2:37:15.200 --> 2:37:18.240 building like community resiliency and community self defense, and folks 2:37:18.280 --> 2:37:20.160 act like, well, how do I actually do that? Well, 2:37:20.200 --> 2:37:22.240 that's maybe that's a start for you. Maybe the start 2:37:22.320 --> 2:37:23.760 is like you get to know what do they have? 2:37:23.840 --> 2:37:25.960 What do I have? And then you start talking about like, well, 2:37:25.959 --> 2:37:27.520 I'm gonna can some stuff. Do you want to learn 2:37:27.560 --> 2:37:29.080 how to can? You're like, oh, well, I was going 2:37:29.120 --> 2:37:30.400 to dry at East. Do you want to learn it? Like? 2:37:30.520 --> 2:37:32.040 Or do you want to borrow a dehydrator? And then 2:37:32.080 --> 2:37:35.680 you're making connections that are very practical and also social 2:37:35.720 --> 2:37:39.320 in your area. Also one plug, we've talked a little 2:37:39.360 --> 2:37:43.840 bit about the process of canning. Dehydrators are great and 2:37:43.920 --> 2:37:48.000 are pretty affordable, and they're not expensive. Yeah, like I 2:37:48.040 --> 2:37:50.840 think you know, for sixty to eighty bucks, you can 2:37:50.959 --> 2:37:54.040 usually get a decent dehydrator. And if you don't have one, 2:37:54.080 --> 2:37:56.520 but you have an oven, if you put things on 2:37:56.560 --> 2:37:59.520 a baking rack very low heat, you can just put it. 2:37:59.600 --> 2:38:02.240 I would just turn my oven onto warm and you 2:38:02.280 --> 2:38:05.720 can lay out things in your oven. I have a 2:38:05.800 --> 2:38:08.400 nicer oven now that won't let me do this. But 2:38:08.480 --> 2:38:11.440 when I used to live in like my first junkie apartment, 2:38:11.800 --> 2:38:15.879 I would literally just stick a metal spoon, like a 2:38:15.920 --> 2:38:17.840 one of my big cooking spoons in the door of 2:38:17.920 --> 2:38:19.920 the ovens so that it would open and that would 2:38:19.920 --> 2:38:22.320 just vent all of the steam of whatever I was 2:38:22.440 --> 2:38:25.440 drying in the oven. So and meanwhile, if you live 2:38:25.480 --> 2:38:28.760 in say a really dry climate or a climate where 2:38:28.840 --> 2:38:31.360 you have a really dry stretch of time when fruit 2:38:31.480 --> 2:38:35.880 is in season, and you have windows, screens and an 2:38:35.920 --> 2:38:38.720 area where you can make sure there's a steady breeze 2:38:38.920 --> 2:38:42.880 flowing across your your fruit, cut it thin, lay it 2:38:42.879 --> 2:38:45.320 out in the sun. And that's why there's so much 2:38:45.440 --> 2:38:48.119 sun dried X, Y and Z. That's really expensive when 2:38:48.120 --> 2:38:50.200 you go to dram Joe's or whatever, and it's you know, 2:38:50.360 --> 2:38:52.080 it's not just a matter we shouldn't just say that 2:38:52.120 --> 2:38:54.160 like this is you have to forage for all this stuff, 2:38:54.160 --> 2:38:56.119 like it could be a matter of like, well, during 2:38:56.160 --> 2:38:59.080 these months, beef is is much cheaper, It's half as 2:38:59.160 --> 2:39:01.280 much as it will be later. I'm going to buy 2:39:01.320 --> 2:39:04.199 beef when it's cheap, and I'm going to make jerky now, 2:39:04.360 --> 2:39:07.200 and then I will have protein when I can't afford 2:39:07.280 --> 2:39:10.240 to purchase protein or as much protein later. In the 2:39:10.280 --> 2:39:12.240 air speaking of jerky, I mean like one of the 2:39:13.080 --> 2:39:15.280 just in the vein of you know, building your own 2:39:15.320 --> 2:39:18.600 dehydrat or something one other thing that uh that that 2:39:18.720 --> 2:39:21.080 I've done is you can just get a you know, 2:39:21.160 --> 2:39:24.320 a decent box fan and some furnace filters and strap 2:39:24.400 --> 2:39:27.600 them all together, and that can very successfully dry out 2:39:27.680 --> 2:39:31.120 jerky um so D dehydrators. There's a lot of different 2:39:31.120 --> 2:39:35.480 ways to Yeah, it is literally just kind of warm 2:39:37.959 --> 2:39:41.000 or less in some cases, and air that is moving, 2:39:41.640 --> 2:39:44.080 and it's it's like everything we've been talking about. There's 2:39:44.120 --> 2:39:47.480 the you can buy very expensive dehydrators if you want to. 2:39:47.520 --> 2:39:50.720 If you want to get a primo jerky making together, 2:39:50.800 --> 2:39:53.480 you can you can make that a real expensive thing, 2:39:53.640 --> 2:39:56.440 or you can do it for like trash, like with 2:39:56.440 --> 2:39:59.320 with discarded crap that you find around in people's like 2:39:59.520 --> 2:40:01.959 take aisles. And I think also the other thing to 2:40:01.959 --> 2:40:04.760 think about we're talking about it's not all foraging, is 2:40:04.800 --> 2:40:08.119 to think about we've been talking about supply chain disruptions, 2:40:08.280 --> 2:40:12.080 but also one of the things in our current circumstances 2:40:12.240 --> 2:40:17.160 is the weird gluts and excesses and surpluses that are 2:40:17.160 --> 2:40:21.000 produced by our supply chains. And again, one of the 2:40:21.040 --> 2:40:24.560 big ways that I learned about food preservation was food 2:40:24.560 --> 2:40:28.800 not bombs and food preservation and also just food preparation 2:40:29.080 --> 2:40:31.160 was food not bombs. Way back in the day, like 2:40:31.200 --> 2:40:34.720 you need a special sound every time on specifically it 2:40:34.760 --> 2:40:37.160 could happen here. Someone mentions food not bombs At this 2:40:37.240 --> 2:40:40.280 point that was my entry back when I was just 2:40:40.400 --> 2:40:44.680 kind of a liberally journalist guy to like anarchist practice. 2:40:44.840 --> 2:40:47.280 Was like every protest I go to, there's these like 2:40:47.800 --> 2:40:51.360 rusty punks handing out sandwiches, um, and then they have 2:40:51.440 --> 2:40:54.560 neat stickers. I wonder what's going on here and well, 2:40:54.640 --> 2:40:56.879 And one of the important things about food not bombs 2:40:56.959 --> 2:40:58.760 is that food not bombs has sort of two different 2:40:59.400 --> 2:41:03.240 ways that you obtain food for food not bombs. One 2:41:03.480 --> 2:41:10.480 is you form relationships with first farmers, Yeah, people who 2:41:10.480 --> 2:41:12.720 are going to have a lot of food, a lot 2:41:12.760 --> 2:41:15.640 of supply coming in and there's stuff they're not going 2:41:15.720 --> 2:41:20.119 to be able to use, either because it's ugly or 2:41:20.160 --> 2:41:22.480 you know, it's carrots that look like dicks and they 2:41:22.480 --> 2:41:24.760 don't feel comfortable putting the carrots that look like dicks 2:41:24.800 --> 2:41:30.720 on the shop. Or Yeah, so you have your relationships 2:41:30.760 --> 2:41:34.480 with like local businesses and local suppliers who aren't going 2:41:34.520 --> 2:41:36.560 to be able to sell or use some of their stuff. 2:41:36.600 --> 2:41:40.440 And right day Old Bread we are a bakery and 2:41:40.480 --> 2:41:42.640 we pride ourselves on fresh bread. So we're going to 2:41:42.720 --> 2:41:45.000 give our day olds and it makes us feel good 2:41:45.000 --> 2:41:47.680 as liberals to give it to food not bombs. And 2:41:47.720 --> 2:41:51.760 then on the flip side, there's the the fact that 2:41:52.120 --> 2:41:55.120 the supply chain is designed to produce these excesses. But 2:41:55.160 --> 2:41:57.160 then if it can't make money off of them, dispose 2:41:57.240 --> 2:41:59.200 of them. That's where you end up with, you know, 2:41:59.280 --> 2:42:03.879 cop starting, copscarding dumpsters for example, don't dumpster from the 2:42:03.920 --> 2:42:08.400 cops that the cop guarded dumpsters. Those are the other dumpsters. 2:42:08.560 --> 2:42:12.240 Go to other dumpsters because it's infuriating, it's very frustrating. 2:42:12.240 --> 2:42:14.280 I get the desire to yell at the cop, but 2:42:14.320 --> 2:42:16.600 there will you can find dumpsters that are not started. 2:42:17.160 --> 2:42:21.640 If you are a store or restaurant, you're legally protected 2:42:21.680 --> 2:42:26.280 to let people go through your dumpster. Yeah, not to you. Yeah. 2:42:26.760 --> 2:42:30.080 During the Clinton administration, there's legislation that was passed that 2:42:30.280 --> 2:42:33.240 straight up said, like at a federal level, if you 2:42:33.360 --> 2:42:37.920 present I think the wording is seemingly wholesome and healthful 2:42:38.040 --> 2:42:41.600 food two people for free, even if it has pastic 2:42:41.800 --> 2:42:46.160 expiration date, that you are legally protected because it's dumb 2:42:46.320 --> 2:42:49.119 to throw out food just because the thing that stamped 2:42:49.120 --> 2:42:52.000 on the package has expired. Now that does mean if 2:42:52.040 --> 2:42:54.760 you pick up some meat that's expired and the package 2:42:54.760 --> 2:42:58.080 is puffy, don't eat that. And it also there are 2:42:58.120 --> 2:43:01.160 also local ordinances and local laws that do restrict that 2:43:01.200 --> 2:43:03.280 more because there are places where people get arrested for 2:43:03.320 --> 2:43:06.000 handing out food to like you know, homeless people and whatnot. 2:43:06.040 --> 2:43:09.000 But you know, check your local laws before doing anything 2:43:09.080 --> 2:43:11.400 is radical and violent as giving out as giving out 2:43:11.440 --> 2:43:15.039 free food to poor people. Yeah, there are these gluts 2:43:15.160 --> 2:43:17.280 um and there are these points where the supply chain 2:43:17.360 --> 2:43:21.120 is going to dump huge amounts of stuff into the system. 2:43:21.200 --> 2:43:23.680 For example, right now, we just talked about how canning 2:43:23.680 --> 2:43:26.120 supplies are kind of in short supply right now, which 2:43:26.200 --> 2:43:29.240 is weird. I guarantee you that that means in a 2:43:29.280 --> 2:43:32.640 couple of months there's going to be tons of canning 2:43:32.680 --> 2:43:36.720 supplies everywhere. Or you know, when there were power outages 2:43:36.760 --> 2:43:39.600 in Portland then there was a bunch of stuff, even 2:43:39.640 --> 2:43:43.000 stuff that doesn't need to be refrigerated was getting thrown 2:43:43.000 --> 2:43:46.640 out if it was stored in the refrigerated section because 2:43:46.720 --> 2:43:50.720 stores have their specific protocols about like oh well if 2:43:50.760 --> 2:43:53.920 this is left, if this freezer is unplugged, we have 2:43:54.000 --> 2:43:56.200 to throw out everything in the freezer. Never mind that 2:43:56.200 --> 2:43:58.199 a bunch of stuff in the freezer straight up says 2:43:58.320 --> 2:44:01.160 right there on it does not require refrigeration, or only 2:44:01.200 --> 2:44:05.439 refrigerate after opening after opening, So think about, like, where 2:44:05.480 --> 2:44:09.920 are your local systems going to produce these huge bloods, 2:44:10.040 --> 2:44:12.920 or maybe it's super cheap at certain times of year, 2:44:13.000 --> 2:44:17.760 you know, you maybe corn goes down to like cents 2:44:17.800 --> 2:44:20.640 an ear or five cents an ear at the end 2:44:20.640 --> 2:44:23.600 of at the at the end of August, right, so 2:44:23.800 --> 2:44:26.000 maybe you can get a whole ton of corn and 2:44:26.000 --> 2:44:29.920 then you can dry it. Like you know, when I 2:44:30.000 --> 2:44:32.280 was a kid, we lived in California, and we were 2:44:32.320 --> 2:44:34.240 not doing a ton of canning. I did not grow 2:44:34.320 --> 2:44:37.640 up canning. I didn't grow up preserving food. I didn't 2:44:38.360 --> 2:44:41.520 in that type of way. But one thing that my 2:44:41.600 --> 2:44:44.440 mom would do is when our little mire lemon tree 2:44:44.560 --> 2:44:48.119 was covered in lemons, she would just juice a whole 2:44:48.160 --> 2:44:51.119 pile of them and then poured into ice cube trays 2:44:51.520 --> 2:44:53.760 and then empty the ice cube trays into gallon bags, 2:44:53.800 --> 2:44:55.440 and then we had lemon you know, we would make 2:44:55.520 --> 2:44:58.879 lemonade all year round. And her recipe literally called for 2:44:59.600 --> 2:45:02.879 three lemon cubes to how much sugar and stuff as 2:45:02.879 --> 2:45:05.120 she had it measured out, and so she would just 2:45:05.120 --> 2:45:06.680 pop those in and that would just live in the 2:45:06.760 --> 2:45:10.600 refrigerator all year round. Was just constant lemonade. One other 2:45:10.879 --> 2:45:13.920 plug in terms of preserving stuff that I want to 2:45:13.959 --> 2:45:16.800 talk a little bit about, but with the disclaimer that 2:45:16.840 --> 2:45:20.000 I am by no means an expert. Um. One of 2:45:20.040 --> 2:45:23.480 the other things that you know, the punks of Yesteryear 2:45:23.560 --> 2:45:26.119 with their food not bombs houses got really excited about 2:45:26.200 --> 2:45:29.600 was things like crowd and kombucha um and there are 2:45:29.600 --> 2:45:33.960 some really great resources out there, specifically um wild Fermentation 2:45:34.040 --> 2:45:36.080 and the Art of Fermentation, which are both by a 2:45:36.160 --> 2:45:41.080 guy named Sander Cats on how to ferment food without 2:45:41.400 --> 2:45:47.600 you you know, you're using naturally occurring bacteria, and fermentation 2:45:47.680 --> 2:45:50.960 as a means of preservation is possibly the oldest means 2:45:51.000 --> 2:45:55.920 of deliberate food storage that human beings have, and you 2:45:55.959 --> 2:45:59.640 can do it with a wide variety of things. And 2:45:59.680 --> 2:46:02.320 so again, if you're faced with one of those gluts 2:46:02.800 --> 2:46:05.360 where you have a ton of stuff and nowhere you 2:46:05.400 --> 2:46:10.240 can store it in your refrigerated storage areas, there's probably 2:46:10.280 --> 2:46:12.440 a way you can jam it, you can dry it, 2:46:12.560 --> 2:46:15.680 you can ferment it. You can you know, make vinegar 2:46:15.760 --> 2:46:18.280 out of it, and you can find guides for all 2:46:18.320 --> 2:46:20.480 of this for free online. Like all of this is 2:46:20.520 --> 2:46:22.320 accessible if you have a phone. There are people in 2:46:22.400 --> 2:46:25.080 people putting up videos on YouTube where you can watch 2:46:25.120 --> 2:46:26.560 them do it too to make it. You do not 2:46:26.680 --> 2:46:30.480 have to purchase books in order to learn. There's also 2:46:30.520 --> 2:46:32.200 a lot of ways you know, you can make cold 2:46:32.240 --> 2:46:35.440 storages in your backyard. You can definitely, like I have 2:46:35.560 --> 2:46:37.879 a lot of guides on how to make your own 2:46:37.920 --> 2:46:41.400 roots sellers than very small spaces and do things. Because 2:46:41.440 --> 2:46:44.560 as long as you're not having your food produce the 2:46:44.600 --> 2:46:46.400 thing that makes it that makes your food go bad, 2:46:47.040 --> 2:46:48.840 there's a lot of different ways that you can prevent 2:46:48.879 --> 2:46:53.359 food spoilage but that you can learn from. But honestly, 2:46:53.680 --> 2:46:56.000 crowd and canning are probably some of the quickest and 2:46:56.080 --> 2:47:00.840 easiest and as a general rule, um, you know, similarly, 2:47:00.879 --> 2:47:02.959 if you don't have access to building a garden, you 2:47:03.000 --> 2:47:05.800 probably also don't have access to like digging a root seller. 2:47:06.320 --> 2:47:10.160 That being said, if you have a room or a 2:47:10.320 --> 2:47:14.800 space in your house where you can reliably keep it 2:47:15.000 --> 2:47:20.280 cool and dark, like below, I don't know, seventy degrees dark. Yeah, 2:47:20.480 --> 2:47:23.440 like closets, there's probably a spot in your basement if 2:47:23.440 --> 2:47:25.040 you live in a house where you have a basement, 2:47:25.200 --> 2:47:26.879 or if you live in a basement, because if you 2:47:26.920 --> 2:47:31.760 live in a situation, yeah, um, it's pretty easy. And 2:47:31.959 --> 2:47:34.760 for that matter, when we talk about like roots sellers, 2:47:34.879 --> 2:47:39.080 there are totally some d i y schematics for literally 2:47:39.200 --> 2:47:44.320 digging a like three foot cube hole in your yard 2:47:44.800 --> 2:47:47.920 and sinking in something to line it, and then that's 2:47:47.959 --> 2:47:51.360 where you store stuff because if you dig down a 2:47:51.400 --> 2:47:54.320 few feet below ground, it stays fifty degrees year round. 2:47:55.640 --> 2:47:58.080 And I get like when you hear again, we keep 2:47:58.120 --> 2:47:59.480 coming back to this, Like, I think a lot of 2:47:59.480 --> 2:48:03.520 people get overwhelmed or get very anxious when they think 2:48:03.520 --> 2:48:06.440 about trying to build resiliency because they live in a 2:48:06.440 --> 2:48:08.360 tiny apartment, they don't have much in the way of money. 2:48:08.600 --> 2:48:10.920 The important one of the most important things to understand 2:48:11.000 --> 2:48:13.240 that like a lot of people, no matter how poor 2:48:13.280 --> 2:48:16.360 you are, poorer than you have been doing this kind 2:48:16.400 --> 2:48:18.600 of stuff for generations. Like it's why most of our 2:48:18.640 --> 2:48:22.440 grandparents survived the thirties. Yeah, And I think one thing 2:48:22.480 --> 2:48:25.360 that people have a misinterpretation of with canning and stuff 2:48:25.400 --> 2:48:26.680 is that they are going to put stuff up, and 2:48:26.680 --> 2:48:29.400 they're gonna like put up their cans and their jars 2:48:29.560 --> 2:48:33.320 and then they will eventually build this. You know, I 2:48:33.520 --> 2:48:38.160 have food for twelve years buried here. Nothing has that 2:48:38.440 --> 2:48:41.760 great of a shelf life. I mean, I've definitely pulled 2:48:41.760 --> 2:48:46.120 out some jerim that was from definitely didn't do that 2:48:46.160 --> 2:48:47.920 this year that I had forgotten in the back of 2:48:47.920 --> 2:48:50.480 a cupboard and eating it and it's fine. It's fine, 2:48:50.720 --> 2:48:54.480 but usually a couple three years couple. But the idea 2:48:54.600 --> 2:48:57.680 of canning and preserving was not that you are saving 2:48:57.760 --> 2:49:02.520 food in case the eye falls in and everyone is doomed. 2:49:03.080 --> 2:49:06.280 The reason that people preserve food was to extend the 2:49:06.280 --> 2:49:09.920 bounty of a harvest season for a few additional weeks 2:49:10.040 --> 2:49:12.760 or months. And if you think about it that way, 2:49:12.920 --> 2:49:16.000 you're extending what you have two times when it would 2:49:16.000 --> 2:49:18.400 be more enjoyable to eat it when it feels special. No, 2:49:18.520 --> 2:49:20.360 I mean, it's like jam. A big part of the 2:49:20.400 --> 2:49:23.680 reason for jam is there's really important nutrients in fruit 2:49:23.720 --> 2:49:25.640 that maybe you can't get in the dead of winter, 2:49:25.840 --> 2:49:28.120 but you can if you have jam. Just to be 2:49:28.240 --> 2:49:30.760 a farm nerd for a minute, because Robert, I know 2:49:30.800 --> 2:49:33.959 that you are a huge fan of pumpkin spice. Oh 2:49:34.000 --> 2:49:36.840 the reason that had my first cup of the season today, 2:49:37.120 --> 2:49:43.760 amazing monster. The reason that pumpkins and cinnamon and apples 2:49:44.080 --> 2:49:47.360 and baking goods, baked goods with reasons in them are 2:49:47.400 --> 2:49:51.480 all like a big deal and are all like apples 2:49:51.560 --> 2:49:55.240 are a fruit that if you put apples in, say 2:49:55.280 --> 2:49:59.280 a barrel, there's the saying about one bad apple. Because 2:49:59.280 --> 2:50:01.680 if you make sure that an apple isn't rotting and 2:50:01.720 --> 2:50:04.840 you put it in a cool, dark space with decent ventilation, 2:50:05.240 --> 2:50:09.119 apples will keep for a very long time. Squash are 2:50:09.160 --> 2:50:11.640 a big deal. Pumpkins are a big deal around this 2:50:11.680 --> 2:50:15.680 time of year because buttercup squash, for example, and but 2:50:15.760 --> 2:50:20.119 are not squash are both storage squash. They taste better 2:50:20.320 --> 2:50:23.879 if they have been sitting in a dark storage area 2:50:24.040 --> 2:50:26.959 for like two months. Then they have metabolized more of 2:50:27.000 --> 2:50:29.959 their starches into sugars and their tastier. A lot of 2:50:30.080 --> 2:50:32.680 a lot of like squash, root, vegetables, all of that 2:50:32.720 --> 2:50:35.879 sort of stuff that you associate with, you know, all 2:50:35.920 --> 2:50:41.480 harvest season is specifically storage crops. Because I'm originally from 2:50:41.800 --> 2:50:45.840 New England. That's the time of year where you stop 2:50:45.920 --> 2:50:48.520 being able to get food out of the ground, and 2:50:48.640 --> 2:50:51.800 everything freezes and dies, and then it doesn't start up 2:50:51.800 --> 2:50:54.640 again until April, and you need a way to keep 2:50:54.680 --> 2:50:57.720 eating in the meantime. And also, though, let's just remember 2:50:57.760 --> 2:51:02.959 that a lot of preserved foods are also neat, not 2:51:03.080 --> 2:51:06.040 just because they are a substitutor because they're staying the harvest, 2:51:06.320 --> 2:51:08.800 but because in order to preserve the food and keep 2:51:08.840 --> 2:51:12.440 the nutrients, you have to go through a process. You 2:51:12.440 --> 2:51:14.680 want to have the salt be too high, or the 2:51:14.720 --> 2:51:17.600 acidity be too high, or the sugar content be too high, 2:51:17.680 --> 2:51:21.760 or the water content be too low to enable bacterial growth, 2:51:21.959 --> 2:51:24.680 and so that the fruits and vegetables and meats or 2:51:24.720 --> 2:51:27.000 whatever don't rock. But that means that you get so 2:51:27.040 --> 2:51:30.920 many awesome and different flavors that you would never you know, grapes, 2:51:30.959 --> 2:51:34.720 grapes are great. Whatever grapes preserved in wine vinegar. That 2:51:34.800 --> 2:51:36.920 sounds really cool. You can do that, and then you 2:51:36.959 --> 2:51:39.480 have a completely different thing that you normally don't eat, 2:51:39.879 --> 2:51:43.560 you know, dried dried figs, apple chips, like. You also 2:51:43.560 --> 2:51:47.240 get a whole new variety of foods that are not 2:51:47.360 --> 2:51:50.240 just extending in harvest but are also other things to eat. 2:51:50.760 --> 2:51:53.200 You know, my kids are not going to toss a 2:51:53.240 --> 2:51:56.879 whole pile of fresh fruit in their backpacks sometimes because 2:51:57.000 --> 2:51:59.600 it squishes at the bottom of their backpacks and I 2:51:59.640 --> 2:52:04.360 find weeks later, and it's absolutely terrifying fortunate. On the 2:52:04.400 --> 2:52:07.160 other hand, a bunch of you know, dried dried prunes, 2:52:07.600 --> 2:52:10.000 plums and stuff from the garden that dried out. They'll 2:52:10.000 --> 2:52:11.959 take baggies of those, And if I find them a 2:52:12.000 --> 2:52:15.320 month later because they didn't eat them, it isn't the 2:52:15.400 --> 2:52:19.279 end of the world either. And and again like there's 2:52:19.760 --> 2:52:22.720 a lot of fun stuff, like you know, yeah, grapes 2:52:22.760 --> 2:52:26.240 by themselves are are fine. You can also turn grapes 2:52:26.320 --> 2:52:29.320 into stuff that will help you preserve other stuff. And 2:52:30.160 --> 2:52:33.520 raisins in baked goods. If you've ever had a loaf 2:52:33.560 --> 2:52:36.240 of raisin bread and a loaf of white bread in 2:52:36.920 --> 2:52:41.480 the same bread box, the white bread will mold first. 2:52:42.080 --> 2:52:45.080 Raisins are actually a preservative. It's why people started putting 2:52:45.120 --> 2:52:48.320 raisins in bread. Yeah, and I think we should we 2:52:48.360 --> 2:52:50.360 should close out, but I kind of wanted to do 2:52:50.440 --> 2:52:53.240 that by circling back to the overall topic of this week, 2:52:53.240 --> 2:52:55.680 which is like building resiliency when you don't have much 2:52:55.680 --> 2:52:57.760 in the way of money or resources. And one of 2:52:57.800 --> 2:52:59.400 the things that you may not think of his building 2:52:59.440 --> 2:53:01.800 resiliency is exactly what you were talking about. Being in 2:53:02.280 --> 2:53:05.480 you aline paying attention to what is available, what time 2:53:05.520 --> 2:53:07.440 of the year, what is cheap, what time of the year, 2:53:07.680 --> 2:53:09.720 what is like, when do the gluts happen, and when 2:53:09.800 --> 2:53:13.480 do the shortages happen, Because that doesn't actually cost any money. 2:53:13.480 --> 2:53:15.440 You don't even have to buy things like you're already 2:53:15.440 --> 2:53:17.680 you're all always going to be going out to the 2:53:17.720 --> 2:53:20.800 store to get food occasionally. It's it's it's keeping an 2:53:20.800 --> 2:53:23.760 eye on understanding what is available growing naturally and what 2:53:23.920 --> 2:53:27.280 is available in the economy, because that connects you more 2:53:27.400 --> 2:53:30.160 to the environment you live in, to the climate as 2:53:30.160 --> 2:53:33.520 it changes, um into your community, all of which make 2:53:33.600 --> 2:53:35.680 you more resilient, and none of which costs you a dime. 2:53:35.720 --> 2:53:38.680 It just costs you attention. Also just a plug for 2:53:38.800 --> 2:53:43.400 you know, people who have access to the ecosystems where 2:53:43.400 --> 2:53:47.320 this is relevant. Things like shellfish licenses are great. I'm 2:53:47.320 --> 2:53:49.240 not going to tell anyone that they should, you know, 2:53:49.600 --> 2:53:55.160 seek out sport fishing as a means of obtaining calories. 2:53:55.280 --> 2:53:57.880 On the other hand, in Oregon, at least for I 2:53:57.920 --> 2:54:00.840 think it's five five bucks, nine bucks. Oh, it's up 2:54:00.879 --> 2:54:03.240 to ten bucks now. But so for ten bucks, get 2:54:03.280 --> 2:54:06.959 a shellfish license. You go down to a cove and 2:54:07.000 --> 2:54:09.280 you rape cockles for an hour and then you have, 2:54:09.560 --> 2:54:13.920 you know, an enormous amount of food that you can 2:54:14.160 --> 2:54:16.680 do all of the preservation that we've talked about. You 2:54:16.680 --> 2:54:19.720 can also just make chowder and freeze it, you know whatever. 2:54:19.920 --> 2:54:23.359 But there's a lot of ways to to cheaply obtain 2:54:23.480 --> 2:54:28.480 calories from out in the world. Yeah, all right, well 2:54:28.600 --> 2:54:31.879 that's going to do it for us today. Um, until 2:54:31.959 --> 2:54:36.080 next time, remember experiment on your friends with different medical 2:54:36.240 --> 2:54:39.040 care treatments. Don't do that. Although on the other hand, 2:54:39.080 --> 2:54:41.879 look up the if you are in the Pacific Northwest, 2:54:42.000 --> 2:54:45.520 there is the Portland Fruit Tree Project up here, which 2:54:45.680 --> 2:54:49.600 goes around and connects gleaners with fruit trees that need 2:54:49.680 --> 2:54:52.720 to be gleaned. Um, so people who have over abundant 2:54:52.720 --> 2:54:54.920 trees that they don't want all the stuff. That's a 2:54:54.920 --> 2:54:57.840 really great resource. In other cities, I'm sure there's other things. 2:54:57.879 --> 2:55:03.320 And also the Falling Fruit Maps map, so you can 2:55:03.360 --> 2:55:06.560 go online and if there's not already one in your area. 2:55:06.640 --> 2:55:08.840 They also make it really easy to be able to 2:55:08.920 --> 2:55:12.040 chart and put in trees in your area. So if 2:55:12.040 --> 2:55:14.560 it's saying that you're excited about and you love identifying trees, 2:55:14.879 --> 2:55:17.320 you can go in and actually start charting your neighborhood. 2:55:18.040 --> 2:55:22.520 Also figure out how to identify, you know, five wild 2:55:22.560 --> 2:55:24.959 plants that grow in your area that you can eat, 2:55:25.320 --> 2:55:29.400 because it's always nice to have more variety and it's 2:55:29.440 --> 2:55:31.240 fun to be out on a walk and be like, 2:55:31.280 --> 2:55:33.800 oh cool, now I have a thing that I can 2:55:33.840 --> 2:55:36.280 toss in with dinner when I get back. Yeah, And 2:55:36.280 --> 2:55:38.200 we've talked about how there's like the poor version of 2:55:38.200 --> 2:55:41.400 the cheap version. There's also like the centrist version and 2:55:41.440 --> 2:55:43.280 the radical version of that. The centrist version is like 2:55:43.320 --> 2:55:44.880 I just want to know, like what kind of edible 2:55:44.879 --> 2:55:47.720 fruits grow naturally in my area. The more radical version 2:55:47.760 --> 2:55:50.439 is I'm going to start guerrilla grows of edible foods 2:55:50.480 --> 2:55:53.119 on like available in my area. I'm gonna seed ball 2:55:53.240 --> 2:55:56.160 some ship. I'm gonna like very get insurgent with my 2:55:56.320 --> 2:55:59.680 yeah to prepare food. Yeah. Things that grow rise only 2:56:00.200 --> 2:56:03.280 take root real easy in the ecosystems they like and 2:56:03.320 --> 2:56:05.600 are real hard to get rid of once they get 2:56:06.400 --> 2:56:09.200 crime gardens I'm not going to say people should tear 2:56:09.280 --> 2:56:12.240 out the random trees that cities plant and then replace. 2:56:12.440 --> 2:56:17.320 No one can say that, but it's possible to do 2:56:17.800 --> 2:56:21.000 trees didn't make food with trees that did make food 2:56:21.080 --> 2:56:24.440 in the same spot, probably nobody would notice except the 2:56:24.440 --> 2:56:27.000 people who got and there would be more free calories 2:56:27.040 --> 2:56:29.720 in your area. If you know the kind of things 2:56:29.720 --> 2:56:32.199 that have been happening the last several years, continue to happen. 2:56:32.720 --> 2:56:46.000 All right, that's the episode. That's the episode. Hey, We'll 2:56:46.000 --> 2:56:49.080 be back Monday, with more episodes every week from now 2:56:49.200 --> 2:56:52.000 until the heat death of the universe. It Could Happen 2:56:52.000 --> 2:56:54.360 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 2:56:54.360 --> 2:56:57.160 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 2:56:57.200 --> 2:56:59.039 Media dot com, or check us out on the I 2:56:59.120 --> 2:57:02.439 Heart Radio app, podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 2:57:02.959 --> 2:57:05.119 You can find sources for It Could Happen here, updated 2:57:05.160 --> 2:57:08.359 monthly at cool Zone me to dot com slash sources. 2:57:08.360 --> 2:57:12.560 Thanks for listening. Hi. I'm Robert sex Reese, host of 2:57:12.560 --> 2:57:16.000 The Doctor sex re Show, and every episode I listened 2:57:16.040 --> 2:57:19.240 to people talk about their sex and intimacy issues, and yes, 2:57:20.000 --> 2:57:22.920 I despise every minute of it. And she she made 2:57:22.959 --> 2:57:27.320 mistakes too everyone at her wedding. But hell is real. 2:57:27.600 --> 2:57:30.320 We're all trapped here and there's nothing any of us 2:57:30.360 --> 2:57:33.240 can do about it. So join me, won't you? Listen 2:57:33.280 --> 2:57:35.800 to the Doctors Sex re Show every Tuesday on the 2:57:35.840 --> 2:57:39.000 I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get 2:57:39.040 --> 2:57:42.240 your podcast. After thirty years, it's time to return to 2:57:42.280 --> 2:57:44.480 the halls of West Beverly High and hang out at 2:57:44.520 --> 2:57:46.920 the peach pit. On the podcast nine O two one 2:57:47.000 --> 2:57:50.039 o MG. Visit Jenny Garth and Tory Spelling for a 2:57:50.080 --> 2:57:52.680 rewatch of the hit series Beverly Hills nine O two 2:57:52.720 --> 2:57:55.440 one oh. From the very beginning. We get to tell 2:57:55.520 --> 2:57:58.280 the fans all of the behind the scenes stories to 2:57:58.320 --> 2:58:01.200 actually happen, so they know what an on camera, obviously, 2:58:01.360 --> 2:58:03.440 but we can tell them all the good stuff that 2:58:03.480 --> 2:58:05.520 happen off camera. Listen to nine O two one O 2:58:05.720 --> 2:58:08.440 MG on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 2:58:08.480 --> 2:58:12.959 wherever you get your podcasts. The art world, it is 2:58:13.080 --> 2:58:17.240 essentially a money laundering business. The best fakes are still 2:58:17.280 --> 2:58:20.200 hanging off people's walls. You know they don't even know 2:58:20.560 --> 2:58:23.840 or suspect that their fakes. I'm at like Baldwin and 2:58:23.920 --> 2:58:28.480 this is a podcast about deception, greed, and forgery in 2:58:28.520 --> 2:58:31.720 the art world. I just walked in and saw this 2:58:32.160 --> 2:58:37.240 great red painting, presuming to be a rothco. Of course, 2:58:37.520 --> 2:58:40.880 art forgeries only happen because there's money to be made, 2:58:41.440 --> 2:58:44.800 a lot of money. I'm listening to what they're paying 2:58:44.840 --> 2:58:48.480 for these things. It was an incredible mansime money. You 2:58:48.560 --> 2:58:54.640 knew the painting was fake. UM Listen to Art Fraud 2:58:54.720 --> 2:58:59.720 starting February one on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 2:58:59.840 --> 2:59:08.760 or wherever you get your podcasts. M HM