1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:08,040 Speaker 1: During the late nineteen eighties, Frederico Lobey was routinely harassed 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: by Saint Louis police officers Rubin Hammon and James Long, 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: who previously attempted to convict him on what appeared to 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: have been fabricated charges. Then, on May twenty first, nineteen 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: eighty eight, a woman claimed that she had been raped 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: and sodomized, and officers Hammon and Long had prepared a 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: line up for her in which she identified someone who 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: did not match her initial description their recurring target, Frederico Lobay. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: But despite multiple factors that damaged the credibility of this id, 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Frederico was sent away for eighty five years. This is 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: wrongful Conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 12 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Ronful Conviction, 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: where we head to Saint Louis, Missouri to discuss not 16 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: only rape and sodomy allegations, but also a damning backstory 17 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: that alone cast out on this conviction. But before we 18 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: introduce the man who has been surviving this ordeal for 19 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: decades and decades. Now we're joined once again by his 20 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: attorney from Centurion Ministries, Paul Castellero. Paul, thanks for coming back, 21 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: my pleasure and with us today. Calling in from a 22 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: Missouri correctional facility, we have Frederico Lobe. I'm sorry you're there, 23 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: but we appreciate you calling in definitely. Will So tell 24 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,279 Speaker 1: us about growing up in Saint Louis. 25 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: I had four brothers and two sisters. We all grew 26 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 2: up in the Saint Louis housing project. My mother and 27 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: father they were good people, man. You know. My mother 28 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: she was school teacher. She was also a cafeteria supervisor 29 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: Scaint Lots Public Schools. And my father he drove a 30 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: truck for the seven F company. And growing up in 31 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: the project, you have to have something to do. And 32 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: I took a boxing so I was pretty good at 33 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 2: at one time. And so I was going to school 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 2: and I was boxing, and I had a job also. 35 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: I worked at a place called Span Building Maintenance where 36 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: we cleaned office buildings. 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: At Unfortunately, in nineteen eighty one, he caught a gun 38 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: charge that sent him away for a forty five day stint, 39 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: but also introduced him to the Moorish Science Temple of America. 40 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: As a direct result of me serving the time, I 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: was able to go to one of the meetings of 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: the Mowis Science Type of America and I became a 43 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: part of the organization. Prophet noble ju I leag He 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: brought Islam to the United States of America and then 45 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: the Lewis Science Type of America. We teach nationality and 46 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: divine cree. We teached that blacks are not Negro, black colored. 47 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: He delt with anything else other than Moores. Know that 48 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: the Moors are from the northwestern Jews of Africa. You 49 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: have to proclaim your nationality as being a Moorish American 50 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: and denounced the name Nigro, black colored, del and all 51 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: names that delude to slavery. So all the Moors in 52 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: the United States of America identified as Bay's or ls 53 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: he Ill or beat. 54 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: Y, just like the leader of the Moorish Science Temple 55 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: in Saint Louis, Jerry Lewis Bay. This surname signified a 56 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: connection to their African roots. As folks were escaping the 57 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: jim Crow South during the Great Migration to Northern cities 58 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: and over the following decades, the group fractured into other 59 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: Muslim organizations, including the Nation of Islam, which my own 60 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: late father in law, Muhammad Ali, famously joined back in 61 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: the sixties. 62 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: I remember when Muhammad Ali became Muhammad Ali and he 63 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: joined the Nation of Islam. Cassius Clay is now Muhammad Ali. 64 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: And the kind of prevailing thought was that these people 65 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 3: were really, Oh, they're dangerous, we should be afraid of them, 66 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: because they kind of gotten out of I guess our 67 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: mainstream Christianity Judaism kind of tracked and now all of 68 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 3: a sudden, you're, well, you're bringing in this foreign kind 69 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 3: of religion. 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: And that still is the prevailing trend in many pockets 71 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: of American culture, and certainly appears to have been for 72 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 1: the officers in this case, Ruben Haymond and James Lung, 73 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: who seemed to have been just really interested in Frederico. 74 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: Back in July nineteen eighty seven, Yeah. 75 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: I had gotten out of a call. A guy dropped 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: me off at my house, went up to my apartment 77 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 2: being where my girlfriend and my two children were, and 78 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: next thing we knew, my door would be a ring 79 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 2: And when I opened the door, officer long headed pistol 80 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: in my face and told me to get my hands up. 81 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: And I asked him, I said, what's this all about it? 82 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: He said, you ran for me and you threw some 83 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 2: drugs now while he was running from me. If I 84 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: didn't throw them no drugs now, I ain't never have 85 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: no drugs. I get down to the police department and 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: that's when he told me that I was being charged 87 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: with possession of potent drugs in marijuana. Once they saw 88 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: that I had made bond, the same officers came back 89 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 2: less than a week and a half away. This was 90 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: in July of nineteen eighty seven. They saw me entering 91 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: my appointment building with my girlfriend and our chest and 92 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: the shame officers jumped out and told me to get 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: my hands up. I was like, hey, had his gun 94 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 2: pointed in my face, and long had his gun pointed 95 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: at my girlfriend and he asked her who she was. 96 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: He wrote her name and number and everything, if they 97 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: had a birth and all this stuff down. And while 98 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 2: he was writing it down, he was asking her where 99 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: we was coming from. Did we have any narcotics on us? 100 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: Did we have any weapons on us? And she said, 101 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: we don't have anything on us, and said, well, this 102 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: motherfucker's wanted for a first of grissault. So they took 103 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: me and threw me in the back seat, and the 104 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: police schooer told me that they was locking me up again, 105 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: and I wasn't gonna make bond on this charge. So 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: I kept asking them who am I supposed to have assaulted? 107 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: And he said, you'll find out when we get to 108 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: the station. And they kept asking me questions about one 109 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: of our spiritual leaders in the Lewis Science Tymple of America, 110 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: Jerry Lewis Bay, and how do I fit into the 111 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: situation of the Lewis Science type of America. And I 112 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: told him, look, man, I'm not going to tell you anything. 113 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: He said, all you motherfuckers are just alike. We cussed 114 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: me out and call me a bunch of derogatory names, 115 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, we did a little research on you, 116 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 2: and we know what you about. He said, all you 117 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: fucking gangsters are just alike. 118 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 3: And one of the resting cops testified in the civil 119 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 3: trial that he believed that any member of that temple 120 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: was a criminal. 121 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: Jerry Lewis Bay was later prosecuted at a Rico trial, 122 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: and it's unclear whether the charges were based in reality, 123 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: or just another instance of the targeted destruction of a 124 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: black leader, or maybe both. Either way, it appears that 125 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: these officers may have been targeting Federico to get to 126 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: Jerry Lewis Bay. 127 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: He kept asking me question about Jerry Lewis Bay, and 128 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: I kept telling him. I said, ain't gonna tell you shit, mate, 129 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, we know what you guys I'm about, 130 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: and you one of them, and you're gonna learn today. 131 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 2: And I was like, what the fuck is you talking about? 132 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna learn today. He got mad at man reaching 133 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: in the back and he had a slapjack in his hand, 134 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: and then he hit me with it, which caused blood 135 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: to trickle down on the right side of my face, 136 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: right aboard my eye. And once we entered the garage, 137 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: Hayman drugged me out of the back seats and while 138 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: I'm down on the ground, they started kicking me in 139 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: and hit me with a flashlight, and so they locked 140 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: me up, and it was a sergeant that came in 141 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: and took the hand cuts up both of me. He said, 142 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: what happened to your face? You must have ran into 143 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: the wall. He booked me to fit my fingerprints and 144 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: all that I did placed me back in the cell. 145 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: And he said, they caught you with some drugs in 146 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: the July to twelfth arrest that they made, and we 147 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: want to know where you getting these drugs from that 148 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: you selling out? Heut side and now those drugs, I said, 149 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: but I'm not locked up on this time for no drugs. 150 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: He said that I had a sawt come find out. 151 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: He used the information that my girlfriend gave him about 152 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: who she was and wrote the least pulled out that 153 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: I was assaulting her. 154 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: This assault arrest never materialized into an indictment, but the 155 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: drug possession allegations made it to trial in April of 156 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight. 157 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: Hayman and law They testified that he had marijuana and 158 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 3: he dropped it and it was his and the jury 159 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 3: acquitted him in fairly fast time. 160 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: After I got found, I'd get that Officer Long and 161 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: Officer Hamon was standing on the side of the prosecutor 162 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: and Alficer Hamon told me, he said, nigga, you ain't 163 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: going to walk the street this summer. I say, fuck you. 164 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 3: They told them he would last the summer. 165 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: I looked at him and I said, fuck you, motherfuck you. 166 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: At that time, the foreman of the jury came and 167 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: shook my hand and told me I better watch those 168 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: guys because they was out to give me. And it 169 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: wasn't thirty days later that I was taughted with this 170 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: right case in May of nineteen eighty eight. 171 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: And the legend victim in this case knew Frederico, as 172 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: did her boyfriend, but he and Frederico were no longer friendly. 173 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: We had a following out about a goain. I let 174 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: him wear a gold chain, and so we got into 175 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: an argument about me receiving my gold chain back. And 176 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 2: a couple of days after that, they ambushed me one 177 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: one that was coming out of my girlfriend's house and 178 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: the boyfriend walk up to me with a gun in 179 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: his hand, and the brother is walking on the side 180 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: of and I didn't have no gun, and so when 181 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: he got up on me, I was able to punch him, 182 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: and when I hit him, I knocked the gun out 183 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 2: of his hand. So we got into a scuffle, beat 184 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 2: him and his brother. We was fighting in the middle 185 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: of the street until we get tired of fighting, and 186 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: if you wanted, jumped in the corn and burnt out 187 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: as a direct result. I'm thinking that this is what 188 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: this arrest may have stemmed from as well. 189 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: So now we have two motivated parties, the cops and 190 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: the alleged victim's boyfriend, And that takes us to May 191 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: twenty first, nineteen eighty eight, and this woman who was 192 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: seven months pregnant at the time, who was believed to 193 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: have been raped and sodomized. 194 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, according to the State of May twenty first, nineteen 195 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 3: eighty eight, the victim is with her boyfriend. They go out, 196 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 3: like about midnight. They go get Hamburgers or something like that. 197 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: They have a disagreement. She goes out to the car 198 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 3: and sits in his car and then gets up and 199 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: leaves and starts walking at like what five o'clock in 200 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: the morning, and she's walking down the street. These guys 201 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: come in the opposite direction, three guys, she says, in 202 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: a car and they say, hey, you need a ride. 203 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: She says no. They go down the block, make a 204 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 3: youth turn, come back, and this one guy jumps out 205 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 3: of the car and grabs her by the hair and 206 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: pulls her into an alleyway and these other two guys 207 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: get out of the car and hold her down, and 208 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: allegedly at that point the one guy who initially jumps 209 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: out of the car, takes off her underwear. He then 210 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: assaults her orally and then vaginally, and then she gets 211 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: up after it's all done, and runs off and screams, 212 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: and she waves down motorists and good Samaritans take her 213 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: in and they call the police, and the police come. 214 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: And it just so happens that Hammon and Long were 215 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: the first to respond to the scene. Now, they allegedly 216 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: found her underwear and her wallet in an alley way, 217 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: and she described the main attacker as a light skinned 218 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: black man with freckles. 219 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: And although Fredriko is light skin, there's no way in 220 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 3: the world you could say he has freckles. And she 221 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: allegedly knows Lobee never says anything about it being Lowbay. 222 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: Yes, she stated all three black meals was involved and 223 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: were unknown to her. 224 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 3: So she goes to the hospital, she is examined and 225 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: a rape kit is created. 226 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: Now, keep the mind. The doctor asked her what was 227 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: the list, and she has six She said, two weeks 228 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: before the rape paint took place. 229 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: Which would make sense because after all, she's seven months pregnant. 230 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely, this makes sense. And she maintained she 231 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 3: wasn't sure whether the assailant didn't ejaculate. That became he 232 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 3: didn't ejaculate in the case history when she was far 233 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 3: from sure of that, and it becomes quite relevant a 234 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 3: couple of years later when DNA is developing and you 235 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 3: can do testing, because she definitely has semen. 236 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: At her so that it's confusing. She said that she 237 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: hadn't had sex for two weeks prior to the incident. 238 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: She doesn't know whether the assailant had ejaculated, which the 239 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: state eventually solidifies as that the assailant had not ejaculated, 240 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: but there was semen found on the vaginal swab and 241 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: seminal fluid found on the underwear. 242 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: Then the issue becomes ultimately down the road. She says 243 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 3: that when she gets assaulted, the assailant takes off her underwear, 244 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 3: that she never puts the underwear on again. 245 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: So if that is to be believed, then follow me here. 246 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: The seminal fluid in the underwear is from a different 247 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: source than the vaginal swap on which there were four 248 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: or five sperm heads, and sperm can survive in a 249 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: female reproductive track for up to five days, so these 250 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: sperm heads could have been the result of an earlier 251 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: unrelated sex act as far as five days into the past, 252 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: or they could be from pre ejaculate, which is male 253 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: glandular fluid that can carry sperm heads from previous ejaculations 254 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: that were deposited in the males urethra. But either way, 255 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: there was an insufficient amount of material to test with 256 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: the methods available back in nineteen eighty eight to determine 257 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: blood type, let alone a DNA profile, So all they 258 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: had to go on was this undetermined seamen source and 259 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: the description. 260 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 3: Then the next day she calls up the cops wanting 261 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: her wallet, and then Hammon and Long, who are police officers, 262 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 3: they're not investigators. Traditionally this case on a sexual assault 263 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 3: would be turned over to a sexual assault unit and 264 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 3: detectives would be handling, not patrolman. And she has this 265 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 3: conversation with I believe it was Long, in which she's 266 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: looking for her wallet and he creates a phutto array 267 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: at one o'clock or two o'clock in the morning and 268 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: runs it out to her. And these officers both know Lavea, 269 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: and these officers have been told by the victim that 270 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 3: the assailants had freckles. They put a punt, and they 271 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 3: don't attempt to put anybody in there with freckles. Why 272 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 3: would you not do that? Then, why would you put 273 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: Lobay in there? And you know he doesn't have freckles. 274 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,359 Speaker 2: So they took my photograph, he took my brother's photograph, 275 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 2: and they took the photographs of three other guys for 276 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 2: a house and they had her to sign in the 277 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: back of a muffle graph and I'm the one that 278 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: riped the sadomass. 279 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: He's arrested within a couple hours. Do you think one 280 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 3: of the officers would have said to her, wait a minute, 281 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: Lebay doesn't have freckles, what are you talking about? You know, 282 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 3: you take her initial description of it, You take the 283 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: idea that she knows Lobey for twenty four hours, she 284 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 3: doesn't name them, and then all of a sudden, he's 285 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 3: being named to the two police officers who normally wouldn't 286 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: be investigating a rape. And it's clear they got a 287 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: relationship with Lobay and it's a hostile relationship. After the 288 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: Lobey's acquitted in his marijuana case, these cops told them 289 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 3: he's never going to make it through the summer. You 290 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 3: take the idea that Lobay belongs to this Maurris temple. 291 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 3: I mean, you have all these little factors going in 292 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: and then that's how the case is made. I mean, 293 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 3: it just stinks. 294 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: And the smell didn't improve with the introduction of an 295 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: additional charge. While Frederico was in pre trial detention, the 296 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: alleged victim claimed that he had called to threaten her 297 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: on June first, nineteen eighty eight, around eleven thirty am. 298 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: She says she was threatened and based on an officer's 299 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: testimony that around that time Lobay was on the phone. 300 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: That's a crazy point. The telephone company to the phone 301 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: call did not come on from out of the Saint 302 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: Louis city too, where I was being illed on eighty eight. 303 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: So, despite the impossibility, witness tampering, which showed an alleged 304 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: consciousness of guilt, was added to Frederico's rape insidomy charges 305 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: for trial in November nineteen eighty eight, and it seems 306 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: his defense was well prepared to combat that allegation. When 307 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: the alleged victim took the stand, they asked that. 308 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: Well, how did she know it was Frederico? She said, 309 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: I remember his voice in the alley. But the officers 310 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: that came in and testified for me, his name was 311 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: Geryl Pitchford. He testified that he worked a floor that 312 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: I was on that day, and I could not have 313 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: been on that phone because at the time that they 314 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: saying that phone call came in, we were longed down 315 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: preparing for visits dead winnisday afternoon, and we logged down 316 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: at ten thirty. 317 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: There was no connection that he called her other than 318 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: her saying it was really fishy. And I don't know 319 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: actually how he got convicted on. 320 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: It, but there's much less confusion about how they managed 321 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: to make the rape inside of me charges stick. 322 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: She cut up on a stand and she stated that 323 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: she remembered me from the neighborhood, and she identified me. 324 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: She pointed to me and said, yeah, that's him. That's 325 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 2: Ridrico sitting at the table with Mantorny andelain Landis. 326 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: And then somehow the defense didn't impeach this in court 327 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: identification with her initial description. After all, Frederico doesn't have freckles. 328 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: But instead they took a less direct route, starting with 329 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: Officer James Long. 330 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 3: There's a pre trial hearing and Long says that she 331 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 3: said the guy had freckles, right. So then they go 332 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 3: to trial, Long testifies not a word is elicited from 333 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: him about her saying the guy has freckles, right. 334 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: So twice already they had squandered this impeachment evidence and 335 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: it didn't come out until Frederico's girlfriend finally took the stand. 336 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 3: She talks about right after Fredriko gets arrested on this case, 337 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 3: she's up at the circuit attorney's office. They're trying to say, 338 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 3: wait a minute, there's no way he could be the 339 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 3: person that did this, and the victim is there and 340 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 3: these two women have a conversation, and during that conversation, 341 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: the victim says, to Frederico's girlfriend, then, in fact, the 342 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 3: guy had freckles. And so the lawyer brings it out 343 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 3: from the girlfriend who is his alibi witness, right, And 344 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: of course, you know, the girlfriend alibi witnesses unbelievable because 345 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 3: she's going to lie to protect them. He doesn't bring 346 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 3: it out from anybody else. And then the victim says, 347 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: but she's testify, No, I never said to this woman 348 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 3: at the circuit attorney's office that the guy had freckles. Meanwhile, 349 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: the cop who they're saying is trying to frame them, 350 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 3: said she said this, and it never comes out. 351 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: And so in addition to the bumbling of this discrepancy 352 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: in the description, they were also prevented from offering evidence 353 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: of the officers motivations. 354 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 3: They try to prove that the cops basically were out 355 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 3: to get them, and the judge refused to let him 356 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 3: get into evidence that he had been acquitted on marijuana 357 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: that these two officers testified and a jury found them 358 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: not believable. 359 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: So that strategy was neutered, and then the rape kit 360 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: evidence was presented. Medical expert Joseph Crowe testified about finding 361 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: four or five spermheads without their tails on the vaginal swab. Now, 362 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: sperm begins to degrade immediately upon ejaculation, and tails the 363 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: gread faster than the heads, and remember, sperm can survive 364 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: up to five days in a female reproductive tract. 365 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: He basically talks about, based on the sperm heads without tails, 366 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 3: how long that indicates they could have been there? And 367 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 3: the idea was is that that's an indication that they 368 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 3: were depositive well before this event happened. 369 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: And apostle, isn't it possible that the sperm could have 370 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: been left for pre exaculation leakage to say year. 371 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: Now they're positive that the assailant had not ejaculated, but 372 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: this testimony makes room for two possibilities, one an earlier 373 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: sex act, or two that the assailant may have deposited 374 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: pre ejaculate. However, with the primitive methods that were available 375 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: back in nineteen eighty eight, Crow testified that they couldn't 376 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: pull a blood type, let alone a DNA profile from 377 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: either the swab or the underwear seminal stain due to 378 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: the small amount of material available, which Crow and the 379 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: prosecution implied was further proof that the material had been 380 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: from a previous, unrelated sex act, which at maximum happened 381 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: five days into the past by today's knowledge and according 382 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: to Crowe at that time twenty four hours Max. 383 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: Keep in mad he has a report in his position 384 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: to say is that the victim had not had sex 385 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: for two weeks. Prides at the race heavens. But he 386 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: comes to court and he testifies that this possible best 387 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: firm could have been there from an old six act, 388 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 2: but he could never be there from an old six acres. 389 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: She had not had sex for two weeks, Prides and 390 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 2: rate avenue. 391 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: Yet that critical impeachment evidence evaded defense counsel. 392 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 3: The lawyers representing Lobey don't have a legible copy of 393 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 3: the medical record, and as a result, they don't know 394 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 3: that she's told medical people within an hour of being 395 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 3: brought in after being assaulted, that she hadn't had sex 396 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 3: in two weeks with anybody. The original legible copy of 397 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 3: the medical record goes into evidence. 398 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: And this legible copy, with the statement about no sexual 399 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: activity for two weeks was not discovered by Frederico's team 400 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: until two thy fourteen. Now, perhaps the prosecution shared this 401 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: illegible copy in the hope that this detail would not 402 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: be discovered. So, but the presence of the sperm had 403 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: neatly accounted for as either a previous unrelated encounter or 404 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: the assailant's pre ejaculate, without any possibility of identifying the stories. 405 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: At that time, the jury was sent to deliberate. 406 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: Y compete, sent me to prison, gave me eighty five years, 407 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: thirty five years for the rate, thirty five years for 408 00:21:46,040 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: asdomy in, fifteen years for seven winness, eighty five years. 409 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 2: I've been fighting this case ever since I've been in prison. 410 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: I've been in the library. Ever since I've been in prison, 411 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: I've been doing everything it is that I could do 412 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 2: and fight this situation. 413 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: After he exhausted his direct appeals, he followed a post 414 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: conviction motion in two thousand and one for DNA testing 415 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: of all the relevant elements, most importantly the vaginal swab 416 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: and the underwear. 417 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: The victim gave a deposition in September of nineteen eighty eight. 418 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: Then she did not know if her rape is ejaculated 419 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: in her vagina. So I explained to the court that 420 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: it was possible that this sperm that we found could 421 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: belong to the victims rapists. Therefore I should be entitled 422 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: they have a DNA testing done. 423 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: Jim McCloskey from our group got evolved way back in 424 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 3: three oh four. 425 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: McCloskey had presented a DNA fiances at that time, Robert Burke. 426 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 2: He was able to convince the court that I should 427 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 2: be entitled to DNA testings, and we came upon realizing technologies. 428 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: Inc Relia Gene conducted why str testing, which analyzes why 429 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: chromosomal DNA to identify paternal lineages. So this testing could 430 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: include the source of biological material as well as any 431 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: close male relatives, and they tested the vaginal swab as 432 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: well as the underwear. 433 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: So when the DNA come back not to match me, 434 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 2: the state began the same with the evidence loaned to 435 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: the victims board flan. As it was stated in the trial, 436 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: this could be from either the rapist or it could 437 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: be from the victim's board flan. We'll never know because 438 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: he never tested whether or not they came from him. 439 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: Now remember, during trial and even at this time in 440 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: post conviction litigation, the legible medical record showing the alleged 441 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: victim's claim of celibacy for the two weeks prior to 442 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: the incident had not yet been discovered by Federico's legal team. 443 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: So even though the Prospect Houston had submitted the legible 444 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: medical records with that information into evidence, the trial testimony 445 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: of the medical expert and the alleged victim reflects that 446 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: the vaginal sperm was either pre ejaculate from the assailant 447 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: or from an earlier sexual encounter with her boyfriend. 448 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: Our boyfriend was in the court room right next door 449 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: to us on drug sources, and as a direct result, 450 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: the sheriff was able to go over there and get 451 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 2: him and bring him to the courtroom where we were in, 452 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 2: and he agreed to give a DNA semple, and it 453 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: came back not to match him if it good, ordered 454 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 2: the prosecutor to go produce the victim come in and testify. 455 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: Why that dnasm that's. 456 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 3: And so when the victim gets under stand Fredrico's he's 457 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 3: not present while she's testified because she doesn't want to 458 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 3: face them, and they have him out of the courtroom 459 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 3: and she says, oh, would really freak me out? Was 460 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 3: the freckles on his face right, clearly not remembering her denial, 461 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: And the lawyer doesn't pick up by it. Wait a minute, 462 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 3: you never said the guy had freckles. It just goes 463 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 3: by the wayside. It seems to me it's incumbent of 464 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 3: on the judge when someone give you such a distinctive 465 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 3: identifier is to say, wait a minute, he doesn't have freckles. 466 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: But the discrepancy in the description again slipped through their fingers. 467 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: And now, when asked to explain how both her boyfriend 468 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: and Frederico were excluded from the vaginal sperm, she once 469 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: again contradicted her statement from the yet to be discovered 470 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: legible medical records. 471 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 3: She suddenly testifies that she had sex with four different 472 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 3: people within a day or two of this assault, and 473 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 3: the boyfriend who she's living with, he's excluded, and obviously 474 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 3: Frederico's exclusive. And then there was this other guy who 475 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 3: had passed away. 476 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 2: So she said she had stricks with a guy named 477 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: Fred Knocks the week before this. So the FBI who 478 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: were able to provide us with a vowel of his 479 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 2: blood and they kissed it. When it didn't match Fred Knocks, 480 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: she says she has sex with two other guys that 481 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 2: she don't remember. 482 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 3: So we don't know whether the semen is from the 483 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 3: two unknowns that she had consensual sex with. 484 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: So when the DNA test results excluded both sources of 485 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: the vaginal sperm, the narrative completely changed and three new 486 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: possible sources were added, two of whom could never be 487 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: confirmed nor denied. And since this information wasn't part of 488 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: the trial record, what else isn't real. What we do 489 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: know is that the profile found on the vaginal swab 490 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: was also present on the seminal stain in the underwear. 491 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 3: And then the issue becomes with this judge is that 492 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 3: what she says she never put her underwear back on 493 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: so therefore the semen in the underwear cannot have been 494 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: from the assailant. 495 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: If we're basing our logic off of her word, again, 496 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: we need to ask what else isn't real? After all? 497 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: At this point in post conviction, the court and Frederico's 498 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,479 Speaker 1: team were still operating under the misapprehension that she hadn't 499 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: claimed to be celibate for two weeks prior to this incident. 500 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 3: Jim McCluskey retained Rix and Dell Local Council. They did 501 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 3: habeas in fourteen and that's when they found the legible 502 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 3: copy of the medical records and kind of brought a 503 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 3: habeas action in Missouri State Court. And then the habeas 504 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 3: action was basically that the DNA hearing really wasn't fair 505 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 3: because they suppressed this medical record. The argument got shot 506 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 3: down by the fact that the actual medical record went 507 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: into evidence at the trial. 508 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: So sharing this illegible medical record, the prosecution appears to 509 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: have just made an honest mistake, right, yeah, okay, and 510 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: I got a bridge to sell you as well. Maybe 511 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: it was deceit anyway. Ultimately, the state ignored this statement 512 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: about two weeks of celibacy, while also submitting the legible 513 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: medical records into evidence, all while bearing no responsibility. The 514 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: onus falls solely on both trial and appellate council. 515 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 3: It could have been no, yeah, the words are due 516 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 3: diligence if you exercise due dili She would have known 517 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 3: this idiot. 518 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: So by ignoring the initial statement and not being discovered, 519 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: the prosecution and the alleged victim could create a narrative 520 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: based on what appears to be a false premise that 521 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: the alleged victim had not been celibate for two weeks, 522 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: thereby leaving the narrative open to first the boyfriend as 523 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: a contributor at trial, then during post conviction Fred Knox, 524 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: and finally these two unknown contributors on which the two 525 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: thousand and seven two thousand and eight denial was based upon. 526 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 2: I should have been released from prison once it didn't 527 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: mess for a knocks, but did say she believed the 528 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: victim saying that she had sex with two other guys 529 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 2: brought to the wave evene and none of this evidence 530 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: was ever disclosed to me, And as a direct result, 531 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: I've been sitting in prison all of this time because 532 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: the jilla says she believed what the victims said. Is 533 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: the absolute true, but she did not know. The victim 534 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 2: told the doctor who examined her that she had not 535 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: had sex with two weeks prior to the rate. Then 536 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: and every court returned to to give us the opportunity 537 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: to show that I'm being healed illegally. They disregard this 538 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: evidence like it's nothing. 539 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: Again, zero culpability is placed on the prosecutor, while the 540 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: court places the onus on Frederico and whoever was representing 541 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: him at any stage to have found the legible copy 542 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: of the medical record rather than have just naively accepted 543 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: what the prosecution shared. 544 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: The prosecutor told my lawyer at the time, all of 545 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: the documents looked just alike all the time. They had stations. 546 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: Hibit twenty eight was a clerk that concise copy of 547 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: the medical report, and the medical report say that she 548 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: had had six for two weeks. But the prosecutor had 549 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: a duty and obligation according to Naphew versus Illinois, not 550 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: the Falster false evidence before the court. And I tried 551 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 2: to bring it to the Court of Appeals because they 552 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: have what you call a manifest and justice exception to 553 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 2: open up the case, to allow you to go back 554 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: in and overcome the procedure bare. 555 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 3: In Missouri, the post conviction rules are so restrictive about 556 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 3: when you have to file, how you have to file. 557 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 3: It's very hostile to people trying to prove that they're innocent. 558 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: The rules are all geared against you. 559 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,239 Speaker 2: Really, because I'm procedurally bored, nobody want to hear what 560 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: I got to say. 561 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: And it appears that the skulduggery goes even deeper. 562 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: When they first gave us the illegible documents. I had 563 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: a prosecutor down there who told us, if we didn't 564 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: like how the documents look, we said, contact our supervisor. 565 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: His name was George Peach. When my attorney, Honanda said 566 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: he wouldn't make time for him to discuss none of 567 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 2: the reports with him, I said, I'll write him on 568 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: my own shit. I sent them a letter on July 569 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: to seventh, nineteen eighty eight, and he never rode back. 570 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 2: But this is the crazy part about George Peach. George 571 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: Peach stole money out of the Saint Louis Circuits attorney's 572 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: petty cash for her to buy sex from undercovered and 573 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 2: was caught in the staying down in the See of 574 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: Saint Louis. 575 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: He was fired from there, so it seems that both 576 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: his trial attorney and Frederico both made inquiries about this 577 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: illegible document and were met with the elected circuit attorney, 578 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: George Peach, who eventually resigned in nineteen ninety two behind 579 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: this alleged financial and sexual impropriety, and it appears that 580 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: this Peach had tried to pawn off his impropriety on 581 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: a man who he had already wrongfully convicted of rape, 582 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: a guy who none other than Barry Shack himself had 583 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: helped to exonerate a man named Larry Johnson. 584 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: George Peach used Larry Johnson's name as an individual who 585 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 2: was buying the sixth on the undercovered cop when he 586 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 2: got caught up in the state knowing that Larry Johnson 587 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: was in prison serve and licensing, and he used that 588 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 2: man name in vain and Larry Johnson was later exonerated 589 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: by Very Shick, and Barry Shick had been to talk 590 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: real bad about the prosecute de den who took over 591 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 2: Doeorgep's position, which was Jennifer's choice because she fought him 592 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 2: on the same thing that I'm being fought for right now. 593 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 2: With this guy named gave gore down at Saint Louis 594 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: Circus Attorney's office right now. 595 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 3: We had a meeting with the Circuit attorney or they 596 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: were unreceptive to the reinvestigation of the police officers and 597 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 3: what happened in the case. I understand there's a new 598 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 3: person that's now at the Circuit Attorney's office that's handling 599 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: claims of innocence and reviewing them. So, I mean that's 600 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 3: one avenue. 601 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: Recently, I founded an emotion in the United States District 602 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: in Eastern District of Missouri because they have a DNA 603 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 2: database now for hy SDR DNA testing. I found an 604 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 2: emotion for judge down there to allow me to put 605 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: the evidence into why SDR DNA database to find that 606 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 2: the individual that we're looking for. Also, I want to 607 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: bring to your attention, they charged me as a private 608 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 2: assistant in the Classics offender. CLASSICS offender requires me to 609 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 2: serve eighty percent of the time in prison. Right, But 610 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: guess what in order to be a Class AS offender, 611 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: I have to be charged with Class AO Class B stundies. 612 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: I've been joged with unclassified stundies. That doesn't qualify as 613 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: a Class B or Class A felly and as a 614 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: direct result, they've been haveing me serve eighty percent of 615 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 2: this sentence, which normally I would be required to serve 616 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 2: thirty percent and be released on parole. 617 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: Thirty of eighty five years is twenty five and a half, 618 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: and since Frederico has already served thirty seven long, miserable, 619 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: fucking years, he'd be parole eligible now. So maybe, just 620 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: maybe Missouri would be willing to consider that road. But 621 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: in the meantime, we hope that someone who's listening may 622 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: have useful information about this case, and if you do, 623 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: please come forward. 624 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 2: They can reach out to Paul with any information that 625 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: they may think that would help our situation. 626 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: Well link Paul's contact info at Centurion Ministries in the 627 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: episode description. So now we're going to go to closing 628 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: arguments and Frederico and Paul, well, what can I say 629 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: except for thank you from all of us here at 630 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction for joining us here today and sharing this 631 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: harrowing story. And now I'm just going to kick back 632 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: in my chair and close my eyes and listen to 633 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 1: anything else you guys feel is left to be said. 634 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 3: The injustice of the case and how weak a case 635 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 3: it is, and the lack of credibility of basically all 636 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 3: the characters that put him away for his life is 637 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 3: just incredible. Everybody is kind of just looks the other way. 638 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 3: Sometimes facts to become known and put together take a 639 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 3: lot of time, and the idea that time becomes the 640 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 3: bar to the consideration of a full record that I 641 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 3: find is just so scary. Throughout history, we've always learned 642 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 3: that sometimes time is the truth. And in Missouri, because 643 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 3: of all these rules that they have, they say it's 644 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 3: just the opposite. I just find it so righting that 645 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: you don't care. You simply don't care if you have 646 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 3: somebody that's innocent, and if the person has some questionable background, 647 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 3: do you even care less about whether you heap this 648 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 3: immense injustice on them. 649 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: I'm focusing, and I'm focused on getting out. I'm focused 650 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 2: on getting out, and I'm thankful that I got guys 651 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: like you, Vesend and whoever else say if I can 652 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 2: get to push me to the limits where I need 653 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 2: to go. 654 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 655 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 656 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 657 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: Good plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our 658 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as 659 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Watis, and Jeff Kliber. 660 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time 661 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us 662 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and 663 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: a Wraful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram 664 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: at It's Jason flamm Wrawful Conviction is a production of 665 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. 666 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported 667 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed 668 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: by the individuals featured in this show are their own 669 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.