Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 2: Tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3: Frank Spiser, he's CEO at Metafied. We're gonna be talking
Speaker 3: a bit about bitcoin and what's going on there. I mean,
Speaker 3: as I'm looking at bitcoin, I'm seeing it up over
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand, which is really a big number that
Speaker 3: we did see it hitting earlier before. What is the
Speaker 3: runway here, Frank? What are people saying about bitcoin right now?
Speaker 1: I mean, right now, bitcoin sort of at a crossroads
Speaker 1: where you know, the support level is probably around ninety
Speaker 1: seven thousand, but the top is sort of undetermined, and
Speaker 1: if it breaks through the one oh five one oh
Speaker 1: seven level, we could see it go all the way
Speaker 1: up to you know, one sixty one seventy five pretty easily,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of institutions buying, and you know,
Speaker 1: states like New Hampshire just recently passed their their strategic
Speaker 1: preserve that will allow but then the whole bitcoin and
Speaker 1: with other states following, I think you'll see competition for
Speaker 1: the available bitcoin on the market, so the top top
Speaker 1: people much higher.
Speaker 2: You know, I've noticed Frank is, ever since Liberation Day,
Speaker 2: we've seen the dollar really fall out. I was trying
Speaker 2: to think of an appropriate way to say that that
Speaker 2: the FCC, Yes, the dollar has weakened substantially, and at
Speaker 2: the same time we've seen a strengthening a bitcoin. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm not insane, right, I'm not gonna say this digital
Speaker 2: currency with absolutely nothing backing it. Besides, like you know,
Speaker 2: the faith that a Reddit group has put into it
Speaker 2: is going to replace the dollar as a world reserve currency.
Speaker 2: But it kind of looks like that, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Matt, I wouldn't say you're insane at all, and
Speaker 1: I would say, what's backing it is the common belief
Speaker 1: that people can transact in peace without the without the
Speaker 1: permission or without needing to sort of rely on the
Speaker 1: printing press of a of a fiat currency. I think
Speaker 1: that's been the original intent of bitcoin all along, and
Speaker 1: you're starting to see that coalesce. I think what we
Speaker 1: saw over the past week or maybe the past month,
Speaker 1: the big bitcoin asset is up twenty five percent for
Speaker 1: the past thirty days. I think you're starting to see
Speaker 1: it returned to the point where it's unhinged from the
Speaker 1: equities markets, and it's no longer moving a tandem with
Speaker 1: sort of the global equities markets. People are starting to
Speaker 1: see it as a way to diversify risk away from
Speaker 1: those markets and away from some really uncertain policies, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of like money supply, tariffs and the like.
Speaker 4: And you know what's interesting.
Speaker 3: I actually was at at ATM the other day and
Speaker 3: it has the option to use bitcoin to pull out
Speaker 3: money as opposed to using my debit card.
Speaker 2: But that's crazy. You don't want to spend bitcoin, do
Speaker 2: you. You don't want to spend bitcoin, do you, Frank?
Speaker 3: I mean, it was the wildest thing.
Speaker 4: I don't know if.
Speaker 2: Nora knows this because younger people don't remember, but there
Speaker 2: is a dude who bought two pizzas for ten thousand bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Ten thousand. How much money is that worth today, Frank?
Speaker 4: A lot.
Speaker 1: The last time I checked, it was about four hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars in my business, so that's a little expensive
Speaker 1: for my taste. But I would not use bitcoin. It
Speaker 1: would not spend it. It's becoming, you know, it's right now,
Speaker 1: according to its market cap, the fifth largest asset in
Speaker 1: the world, just ahead of Amazon.
Speaker 3: I mean, how are people thinking about bitcoin right now.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that the market is really in
Speaker 3: an interesting space where tariffs have been in focus. People
Speaker 3: are really interested about the geo politics trade tensions. How
Speaker 3: exactly does that affect bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Bitcoin allows governments to sort of move money around in
Speaker 1: a way that they as long as they will both
Speaker 1: accept it on either side the original intendants. You just
Speaker 1: have two parties in the trade. You don't need a
Speaker 1: third arbiter. So my sense is, and I don't have
Speaker 1: the data to prove this, but it feels like with
Speaker 1: the volumes we're seeing in the market, there's people finding
Speaker 1: innovative way ways around sort of the tariff restrictions and
Speaker 1: controls just by just by alternative currencies. That could be
Speaker 1: the case, but I think the world is at a
Speaker 1: point where it sees it as a valid asset. It's
Speaker 1: starting to become more certain that it's going to stay
Speaker 1: there for the long term, and you're starting to develop
Speaker 1: around that where that wasn't there in previous cycles. So
Speaker 1: what was there was just speculative belief that it would
Speaker 1: one day get to where it is now. But I
Speaker 1: think we're finally at a mature point in the market
Speaker 1: development where you're seeing people actually build around it and
Speaker 1: consider it for for ways to to execute trades, to leverage,
Speaker 1: you know, different ways around you know what, what the
Speaker 1: world's throwing at.
Speaker 4: Them right now?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 2: You know, I look at on the Bloomberg terminal, c
Speaker 2: ryp go as I'm sure you know, as everyone knows,
Speaker 2: pulls up a list of cryptocurrencies. But I don't really
Speaker 2: care about any of them, frank not even Ether. I
Speaker 2: only care about Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Why bother with the rest
Speaker 2: of these? What are they?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 2: Five thousand other cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 1: There's quite a few, and I would actually say most
Speaker 1: of them are junk. And that's coming from somebody who
Speaker 1: has a company who does crypto based stuff. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Eath,
Speaker 1: for instance, is up you know, eleven percent over the
Speaker 1: previous day. It's it's up you know, forty percent for
Speaker 1: the previous thirty days. And what that is is an
Speaker 1: indicator that the DeFi markets, where you're starting to see
Speaker 1: decentralized finance products pop up, the settlement layer for all
Speaker 1: of that is EATH. So, uh, that's an indicator that
Speaker 1: the market does want to develop ways to alternatively you know,
Speaker 1: move move capital around, and you should pay attention to
Speaker 1: ETH as a barometer for the appetite to develop these
Speaker 1: types of things.
Speaker 2: I just want to say they start. But frank uh,
Speaker 2: you know talking at the top about how you don't
Speaker 2: want to be a slave to the fiat currency. Right,
Speaker 2: Bitcoin is is proof of work, Right eth is proof
Speaker 2: of steak. It seems like it could be swayed by
Speaker 2: some big holders.
Speaker 4: That's correct.
Speaker 1: Eth is one of those things where the money supply
Speaker 1: is not definite. I definitely prefer the economics of bitcoin,
Speaker 1: for sure, and it's a lot more fair to the users.
Speaker 1: But ETH is one of those things that it's sort
Speaker 1: of the base layer of decentralized finance, and for that alone,
Speaker 1: it's it's sort of worth seeing what people are willing
Speaker 1: to build for. I think what we need to do
Speaker 1: to get some more clarity here is to get some
Speaker 1: regulatory certainty around stable tokens. And if we can do that,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll start to see the bridge between the
Speaker 1: traditional finance system and crypto become a little more certain
Speaker 1: and clear, and the innovation start to ramp up.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 2: Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3: I really do want to into what's going on at Citadel.
Speaker 3: We're going to be joined here by Anna Kaiser, and
Speaker 3: she's based in Miami Hope. The weather is great there,
Speaker 3: it's rainy here in New York City. But Citadel is
Speaker 3: pushing for a four year non compete in Florida. It's
Speaker 3: essentially a lobbying spree. Four years sounds insane to me
Speaker 3: for a non compete. I'm really interested to hear what
Speaker 3: the reception has been and what's really going on here.
Speaker 5: Anna.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, as I said, this is a bill that
Speaker 4: is in the Florida legislature.
Speaker 5: It is still waiting to be signed by Governor Rond
Speaker 5: De Santis, so that is still pending. But it would
Speaker 5: allow for non competes and garden leaves in the state
Speaker 5: to last for up to four years, which is.
Speaker 4: A really long time.
Speaker 5: As as you say, you know, some of the lawyers
Speaker 5: and policymakers who I spoke to for the story just
Speaker 5: described this bill as like very employer friendly. It puts
Speaker 5: a lot of power with the employer when it comes
Speaker 5: to non compete agreements.
Speaker 3: I mean, when I think about people and whether or
Speaker 3: not they'd actually sign a noncompete. I mean, if Citadel
Speaker 3: is a big name, of course, but do we feel
Speaker 3: like they have the juice? Do they really have the
Speaker 3: reputation enough to really get people to be willing to
Speaker 3: sign this four year agreement?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I should not.
Speaker 5: It's up to four years, so I guess it's going
Speaker 5: to be up to them, you know, how long they
Speaker 5: want to stretch.
Speaker 4: Those I mean, it would be pretty hard for me
Speaker 4: to imagine doing it.
Speaker 5: Four years is a really long time to be out
Speaker 5: on the sidelines, you know, it could really damage your career.
Speaker 5: I think it's something that employees there would probably have
Speaker 5: to think about a lot.
Speaker 4: You know, in exchange. Like you said, it's a big name.
Speaker 5: They you know, obviously compensate very well, so time great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know it's it's it's uh.
Speaker 5: It's probably a pretty tough decision that some future employees
Speaker 5: might have to face.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the devil's in the details, right, if
Speaker 2: they're if they're paying me enough, and if the four
Speaker 2: year non compete was gardening leave on which I would
Speaker 2: continue to get paid a ton, I probably would want
Speaker 2: to sign that. But it's not always the case, right,
Speaker 2: That's what I thought when I initially read your story
Speaker 2: this morning, Anna, like, oh, that would be great, you know,
Speaker 2: getting full paid for four years hanging out in the keys,
Speaker 2: knocking back Margarita's all day. But the issue is you
Speaker 2: don't always get paid on those years that you have
Speaker 2: to sit out during a non compete. And even if
Speaker 2: you do get paid, if it's gardening leave so called,
Speaker 2: you still often don't get your bonuses. And this is
Speaker 2: an industry in which people don't matter. People make exactly
Speaker 2: the line's share of their compensation is in bonuses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: So it sounds like a dream, right, You just get
Speaker 5: to sit back and be on vacation. But as you say,
Speaker 5: salaries actually don't make up a huge portion of compensation
Speaker 5: for a lot of people who work at hedge funds.
Speaker 5: So you know, that might help you keep the lights
Speaker 5: on when you go on a gardening leave, but it's
Speaker 5: probably going to be a pre pretty big hit to
Speaker 5: your income.
Speaker 4: So it's not quite as sweet of a deal as
Speaker 4: it appears to be.
Speaker 3: So, and the bill has passed the legislature, but it's
Speaker 3: still awaiting the governor's signature. What's the timeline here? Is
Speaker 3: this something near term that we could get an answer
Speaker 3: on this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's still not on the governor's desk officially,
Speaker 5: you know, the legislator.
Speaker 4: The legislative session ended last week. There are you know,
Speaker 4: a flurry of bills to sign.
Speaker 5: This is one of dozens, so it's hard to say
Speaker 5: when he would actually sign it, but it would probably
Speaker 5: be in the coming weeks.
Speaker 3: And I mean Florida as we think about I always
Speaker 3: think about people that are making that migration over the
Speaker 3: Florida great weather. That's what I'm the most jealous of.
Speaker 2: But so flat, this is true, And it's not like
Speaker 2: the greatest roads for me.
Speaker 3: It's a no from you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just it's like flat, long, straight highways.
Speaker 3: But the palm trees, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, palm trees are good. And like I said, you know,
Speaker 2: hammocks and mixed beverage is. I appreciate that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: But you've got to deal with Florida man as well. Anna,
Speaker 2: What is it like living in Florida. I mean you're
Speaker 2: surrounded by people that make the news as a joke,
Speaker 2: you know, not Ken Griffin, but the rest of the
Speaker 2: people in Florida. How is it living there?
Speaker 5: I mean, it's an amazing place to be a reporter
Speaker 5: because there's never a dull day.
Speaker 4: We are always covering all.
Speaker 5: Sorts of different things, different characters, different figures, policies, politics.
Speaker 5: You know, We've got more Alogo just up the road.
Speaker 5: It's sort of the center of the Republican Party in
Speaker 5: so many ways, you know, center of so many ideas
Speaker 5: that are coming out of the Republican Party.
Speaker 4: So I will say, it's never a dull day.
Speaker 3: So talk to me about why Florida specifically with this story, right,
Speaker 3: I mean they obviously have a presence in other states
Speaker 3: as well, so true, yes, yes, sorry.
Speaker 5: The way that the bill is written, it says that
Speaker 5: these kinds of non competes in garden leaves would be
Speaker 5: applicable for a company where their principal place of business
Speaker 5: is in Florida. So in theory that is trying to
Speaker 5: say that these could extend outside of Florida.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: Also, this is a very heavily Republican legislature. They do
Speaker 5: often pass things that are sort of friendly to the
Speaker 5: business community, I think, much.
Speaker 4: More so than in New York.
Speaker 5: So it's just a it's a friendlier environment for something
Speaker 5: like this to pass well.
Speaker 2: And Ken Griffin, right, I mean, you mentioned mar A
Speaker 2: Lago's up the road, and I'm sure that when the
Speaker 2: President is in the state, he commands the obedience of
Speaker 2: most people there, But when he's not, Ken Griffin is
Speaker 2: kind of like the de facto leader right of Wall
Speaker 2: Street South, and he's given so much money I would
Speaker 2: imagine to Republican candidates down there in the state, as
Speaker 2: well as the governor Ron DeSantis, that they tend to
Speaker 2: do what he wants them to do.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean he is He's only lived here for
Speaker 5: three years, but he holds an incredible amount of power
Speaker 5: and influence, and he's very involved in sort of all
Speaker 5: levels of government.
Speaker 4: He you know, donates.
Speaker 5: And supports local candidates and local races here in Miami,
Speaker 5: you know, state candidates, and is.
Speaker 4: Just very involved in politics.
Speaker 5: He you know, donates to all of the big charities
Speaker 5: and philanthropies.
Speaker 4: So he has a really big.
Speaker 5: Presence here and in just three years, so I think
Speaker 5: it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 4: You know, you see his name on buildings.
Speaker 5: All over Miami and even in Palm Beach two where
Speaker 5: he also owns property. So he has a very big
Speaker 5: presence for a really short amount of time in my opinion.
Speaker 3: And of course this is a really big bill. What
Speaker 3: are you hearing from sources about the odds of it passing?
Speaker 2: You know, Gardner.
Speaker 5: Decidas usually will pass something that is you know, business friendly.
Speaker 4: It didn't have a ton of pushback in the legislature.
Speaker 4: The bill sponsors.
Speaker 5: Really argued that this is very important for Florida's business community,
Speaker 5: that this is going to attract businesses that have very
Speaker 5: high paying jobs because they're businesses that are dealing with
Speaker 5: you know, high level trade secrets. So they sort of
Speaker 5: argue that this is actually really important for the business
Speaker 5: ecosystem in Florida. So in that in that sense, I
Speaker 5: think there's you know a good chance that the governor
Speaker 5: would sign it, but he declined to comment for the story,
Speaker 5: so you know, we'll we'll just have to.
Speaker 2: See, all right, Anna, thanks so much, Anakizer. They're reporting
Speaker 2: to us live from Miami.