1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Clime Stories with Nancy Grace. She made it so exciting. 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: You know, hey, I'm gonna come pick you up. We're 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: gonna come up here, and I want you to meet Puzzuzu. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: I want your opinion on him. So okay, well that's cool. 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: We get up there and everything was fine until I 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: walked onto the front porch. The stinch just it was 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: like a smack to the face. It was so strong. 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: First thing I ever said to Puzzuzu when I'm at 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: him was Dude, your house smells like death, and he 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: kind of laughed, Oh, yeah, it's just the bodies in 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: the basement. Okay, I can imagine that laugh. You know, 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: once you smell a dead body, a human body, you 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: never forget it, and nobody really has to tell you 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: what it is. I mean, I see, Grace, this is 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You were 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at the Devil, you know on Viceland. Wow, 17 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: could they not have described it any better? What happened? 18 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: What happened in Clement's, North Carolina. Kendall Crown's joining US 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: pathologist Deputy medical Examiner in Travis County, Texas. That's in Austin. 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Thank you so much for being with us. I'm 21 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: sure you perform more autopsies than you can even remember, 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: but nobody has to tell you when you smell a 23 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: dead body. Oh, yes, that's very true, Nancy. It has 24 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: a very distinct odor. You know, you can be driving 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: down the road and smell a horrible smell and know 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: that an animal has been run over. You know, it's 27 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: interesting to doctor Karen Stark psychologists joining me from Manhattan, 28 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Karen on TV. It's also slick and airbrushed and edited 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: when you see these crime stories on TV. It's not 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: like that at all in real life. It's amazing to 31 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: me sometimes that people are so fascinated with murder. I 32 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: guess it's because they're not seeing the real thing, because 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: it's something you probably never want to see again. You 34 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: never want to be exposed to it, Nancy, and I 35 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: think that watching it on TV sometimes it coats over 36 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: the fact that it's as horrific as it really is, 37 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: because you don't smell it and you're not there to 38 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: get the details that you're describing. Leavi Page, who wasn't 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: that walked up to this front porch so unknowingly and 40 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: smell the smell of death. Who was that, Nancy. It 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: was neighbors and people that had been there. He had 42 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: a lot of parties and some of his friends had 43 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: also smelled the smell of death, and while they were there, Nancy, 44 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: this guy bragged about killing people. But he was so 45 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: bizarre that people brushed it off and just thought that 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: he was kind of crazy. You know, how often is 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: that true? Joining me, Steve Lampley, Detective Steve Lambley, People 48 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: joke about bodies in the basement. I mean at Halloween, 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: I put an arm on the back of the minivan 50 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: and we decorate the house. Most people wouldn't think anything 51 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: of it when someone says I was just the dead 52 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: bodies in the basement, But for a detective like yourself, 53 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: that's a real giveaway. Well, Nancy, everything's taken seriously, of course, 54 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: But people do people do joke with police officer. You know, well, 55 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: don't don't. I did this and I did that. But oftentimes, 56 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: as in this case, it's not a joke and it 57 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: has to be taken seriously into, especially if you're talking 58 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: about somebody comes up to you and says, Hayley needs 59 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: to be looked into. You heard speaking a woman named 60 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: Katie Wagner Davis. And she's a friend of a woman 61 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: named Amber. She wanted Katie to come to Pazuzu's parties. 62 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: Let's just clear up the record here. Amber is a 63 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: woman around twenty eight twenty nine years old, and that 64 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: is Pazuzu's girlfriend. And isn't it odd to Ken Belkin 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: joining us today, renown criminal defense attorney in the New 66 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: York jurisdiction, Ken, why is it? You may give me 67 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: a different answer from what I'm thinking, But women are 68 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: so blind to what's wrong with their mate. I mean, 69 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: in nearly every child molestation I have ever prosecuted, and 70 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: this is a sorry story, the women side with the man, 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: even in the face of overwhelming evidence of molestation of 72 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: their own biological children. It's very hard for women when 73 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: they have this picture in their mind of the perfect relationship, 74 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: to see what's wrong with the guy? Hello has how 75 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: smells like a dead body? There's something wrong? But here 76 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: she is saying, Hey, I got a guy I want 77 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: you to meet. It's my boyfriend, Pezuzu Algarad. I mean, 78 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: have you ever have you ever had a client, Ken 79 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: Belkin that was blinded by love? Well, look, everyone's capacity 80 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: for self delusion is limited when it comes to the 81 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: significant number that they love the most. Take my golfer 82 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: for example, she has to overlook the fact that I 83 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: have a cat. Now that's not you know, it doesn't 84 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: relate to the situation here. But you know, people will 85 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: overlook these things. They will delude themselves. They will tell 86 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: lives for themselves, and the longer they tell these lives 87 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: to themselves, they will believe them. Well, it wasn't just 88 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: the girlfriend that was looking through rose tinted glasses. Take 89 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w XII twelve, This 90 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: is News reporter Talita Vickers. I spoke with a resident 91 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: who passes this home every single day on his morning walk. 92 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: He says that both suspects really kept to themselves and 93 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: finding out about the buried bodies in his neighborhood is alarming. 94 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: The walk to the school bus here every day. And 95 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: tell all that type of the sick behavior was very instant. 96 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: Godserving now the Prescith County Sheriff's Office, it did receive 97 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: a search warrant to not only search the backyard but 98 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: also the inside of this home here, and they tell 99 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: us that they are continuing to piece together evidence that 100 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: they found inside and outside of the home, again not 101 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: releasing what led them here. You know it's bad when 102 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: you've got cops digging through your trash in your backyard. 103 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: Can you look at your kitchen window and you see 104 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: the cops back there, something is very, very wrong. It's 105 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: not like when you pull up Ken Belkin, the arc 106 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, to a red line and you see 107 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: a cop over in the corner arresting somebody for speeding 108 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: or didn't put on their blanker. When you see a 109 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: cop picking through your backyard, you better get on the 110 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: phone and call Ken Belkin. You know that's absolutely correct, 111 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: and more presently than not a lot of people will 112 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: call me because if you're at that stage of an 113 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: investigation where cops are in your backyard going through your trash, 114 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: more than likely an arrest. A search warrant was ordered 115 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: by a judge. So I mean detectives had to go 116 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: in front of a judge with a prosecutor, lay out 117 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: the probable cause for the search warrant, and get a 118 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: judge to sign off. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. My 119 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: name is Katie Wagner Davis and I met Amber in 120 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: high school. We were the best friends. In no time, 121 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: I saw my best friend do a complete total one eighty. 122 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: One day she's star bubbles. The next day she's not 123 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: showering and shaving all of her eyebrows off and filing 124 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: her teeth down to point so that she could bite 125 00:07:52,800 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: into these animals. And it's just no. Whenever I first 126 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: really started hearing about Pazuzu, we got a few phone 127 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: calls from her. Tell me that, you know, she really 128 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: likes this guy. He's really cool, he's satan. As she 129 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: would talk about these rituals, I guess Pazuzu would kill 130 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: an animal and drink the blood. I know that they 131 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: would cut each other open and drink each other's blood. Okay, 132 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: if I even heard that, I would turn and run 133 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: for the heels, as if I had seen a monster. 134 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: What why did she stick with him? That's my big question. 135 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: Right now, you are hearing our friends over advice on 136 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: the devil, you know, describing this cute little girl in 137 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: high school that suddenly shaves off her eyebrows, files her 138 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: teeth down to a point, and talks about drinking blood. Okay, 139 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: right at the quick showering, she had my attention right there, 140 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, as much as I love you, Doctor Crown 141 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: and Ken bellk and Steve Lampley leave my page, Dartor 142 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: Karen start. I need a shrink, and I need it fast. 143 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: How does somebody go from just such an extreme from 144 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: zero to one eighty mph seemingly overnight, Nancy, There's something 145 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: that happens when you meet somebody who's exciting, even if 146 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: it's horriffic to us and we don't understand it, he's 147 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: appealing to a young girl. It's very cult like. Think 148 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: about Manson right. She sees him as being powerful, shiding 149 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: extraordinary schanic and for whatever is going on in her life. 150 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: We don't know her background, but there's something about him 151 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: that draws her to him. Karen, Karen, Karen, wait a 152 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: minute now. Now, if I were to see something dangerous, 153 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: I'd say, you know what, sea and be gone. But 154 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: I guess at a certain age in your life you're 155 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: more drawn to excitement. But biting the head off an 156 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: animal and drinking the blood, I don't know that I 157 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: would call that excitement. I would call that gruesome. I mean, 158 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: even a fifteen or sixteen year old girls should know that, 159 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily, not when somebody's won you over. This is 160 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: really it's come like so it's blind attraction. It's just 161 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: whatever this guy is telling her, whatever is supposed to 162 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: be happening. As a result of drinking the blood, it 163 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: becomes a part of something that she sees as fine, 164 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: not thoristic anymore as exciting, shaving the eyebrows, the filing 165 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: the teeth to points, the drinking animal blood. I mean, 166 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney. Isn't killing an 167 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: animal and drinking it's a blood? Isn't there a crime? 168 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: Isn't that there a law? Is that? Oh? Yeah, you 169 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: could definitely be prosecuted for cruel data animal And believe me, 170 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: I know you would think it's not as common as 171 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: it is. It does get prosecuted. Crazy. Okay, listen to this. 172 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: She wasn't the only one that witnesses his peculiarities. Because 173 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: we learn about this quote. Troubled that is defense talk, 174 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: defense talk. Troubled that means doing wild, crazy, usually illegal things. 175 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: That's what troubled means. Troubled. High school dropout who changes 176 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: his name to Pazuzu from John to Pazuzu, making his 177 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: middle name Algarad his surname and adopting as his first name. 178 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: That the main demon in The Exorcist, in case you're 179 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: wondering who's Pezuzu, then brought Satanism to the suburbs. Yeah, 180 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: that's who this guy is. Now Jackie Howard is wildly 181 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: waiving a note to me. She's not concerned about the 182 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: drinking the animal blood. She's concerned that he had three 183 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: girl friends. Now, Jackie, I don't know, but you may 184 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: be projecting something that's happened in your past. I'm not 185 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: sure about that, but you seem to think that's much 186 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: worse than filing your teeth to points, shaving off your eyebrows, 187 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: and drinking animal blood. She's like, but he's got three 188 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: girlfriends and he's calling them all his fiance all right, 189 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: you know what that says to me? That says a 190 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: cult because you have multiple people following along with you, 191 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: basically like a Charles Manson of Clemens. I'm Sylvia le Beau. 192 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm related to the situation just by being at the 193 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: wrong place at the wrong time. He had this thing 194 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: called fiances. He had several women followers, Dixie, Crystal, Amberer, 195 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: and he called them his fiances. That term has always 196 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: stuck with me fiances. He had the sense of power, 197 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: you know what, shaving your eyebrows and filing your teeth 198 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: to a point, it's not against the law. You can 199 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: deface yourself pretty much anyway you want to. But this 200 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: is where I have a problem for Scythe County Medical 201 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: Examiner's Office has identified this council remains that we're found 202 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: buried at this Clement's home on knob Hill Drive. The 203 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: first victim has been identified as Tommy Dean Welch born 204 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight. The second victim has been identified 205 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: as Joshua Frederick Wetsler. Wetsler was reported missing by his 206 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: son's mother. Stacy Carter says she had known Wetsler for 207 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 1: a decade before his disappearance. They had met in Washington 208 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: and moved to North Carolina planning to open a horse business. 209 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: Their son was born in two thousand and four. Carter 210 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: and Wessler eventually broke up. She tells me the last 211 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: time she's josh was in July two thousand and nine, 212 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: and that he was a very loving, caring father. So 213 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: when he stopped calling his son, she knew something was up, 214 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: but it didn't become unusual and he didn't call his 215 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: mother on his birthday, and he didn't contact his son 216 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: because he was a very loving father and he put 217 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: family first and his son first. Carter says she never 218 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: heard of or met Zuzu Algarad, Amber Birch or Crystal Matlock. 219 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: All three has been charged in connection in the case 220 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Investigators say that the two 221 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: people who actually live at this home are suspected of 222 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: burying the bodies in a shallow graves. Were approaching the 223 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: twenty four hour mark and crime scene tape is up 224 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: and investigators remained on the scene, but thirty five year 225 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: old Pazuzu Algarad and twenty four year old Amber Birch 226 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: are now locked up they charges in connection to the 227 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: unidentified human remains. Both suspects, as I mentioned, live at 228 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: twenty seven forty nine knob Hill Drive in Clements where 229 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: the skeletal remains were found in shallow greens at the 230 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: back of this home. No word yet what led investigators 231 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: to search the property yesterday, but the Resith County Sheriff's Office, 232 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: along with the State Pier of Investigation could be seen 233 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: throughout the night securing the scene and collecting evidence. You're 234 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: hearing from our friends at w XII twelve news. That 235 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: was Talitha Vickers on the scene. Why you know, the 236 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: state never has to prove motive to a jury. But 237 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: why did these two guys go missing? And are they 238 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: in fact in this guy, Puzuzu Algarrod aka John Algard 239 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: Lawson's backyard? And also why did the girlfriend as a 240 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: matter of fact, not one, two, but three girlfriends stand by? 241 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: Did they know what was happening? Take a listen to 242 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: our friend Talitha at w x H twelve. When I 243 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: spoke with investigators with asythe County Sheriff's office, they told 244 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: me that they could not release yet what led them 245 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: to this home. However, they are confident that they have 246 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: the people involved with murdering and bearing the two victims 247 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: here at this home well the residence. Thirty five year 248 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: old Pazoozu Algirard and twenty four year old Amber Birch 249 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: remained locked up this morning, charge with one counts of 250 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: murder and one counts of accessory after the fact to murder. 251 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: Investigators believe the two are responsible for killing and bearing 252 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: two victims in shallow graves behind the hole where they live. 253 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: Investigators dug up the graves Sunday and transported the remains 254 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: to Wait Force Baptist Medical Center for positive identification. You 255 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: can see photos of this guy pass law algorad born 256 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: John Lawson at crime online dot com. And when you 257 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: see the dramatic transformation in his appearance. Have you guys 258 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: ever seen those ads on TV about what happens to 259 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: you when you use meth about your meth amthed mean, 260 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: how your face totally changes you suddenly. Look, you can 261 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: be nineteen years old and you look like you're fifty 262 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: five and you've been run over. That's the transformation you see. 263 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. Steve Lampley, detective joining us. 264 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: You know people when you're walking down the street, you 265 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: just see them and some type of instinct takes over 266 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: and you go to the other side of the street. 267 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: That's this guy. If you take a look at him, 268 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: that's him, Jackie. Have you seen his picture? I mean 269 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: you would totally I would pull the twins away and go, okay, 270 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: getting the car lot the door, getting the car lot 271 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: the door. Yeah, and Nancy, well that's what he wanted. 272 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: Apparently from the articles and information that I have, he 273 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: wanted to create that environment. He wanted to create that alarm. 274 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: He wanted to bring Satanism to that small community. So 275 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: that was right down his values. For people to do that, 276 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: he would the shock factor. From what I understand, and 277 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: you know too, doctor Karen Start, psychologist, I always refer 278 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: to hunches and gut feelings, and I do not think 279 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: that they are taken seriously enough because I believe that 280 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: hunches are born over thousands of years of evolution. I 281 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: think your body is like a giant computer, beyond any 282 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: AI yet created, where you smell something, you sense something, 283 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: you hear something, you feel a shift in the wind. 284 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: Your body as beyond any radar or sonar yet created. 285 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: And when you have a hunch, you should follow it 286 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: because your body, your mind, your senses that you can't 287 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: even identify, are telling you something. Your instincts are correct, Nancy. 288 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: That's what a hunches. A hunches about an instinct of 289 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: feeling that something is wrong. And we're picking up on 290 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: all kinds of information inside of our brains that we're 291 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: not aware of, and you should pay attention. And what's 292 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: fascinating is there were no hunches when it came to 293 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: these Beyonces because they found him intriguing. This was a cult, 294 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: so they were able to be under his spell. But 295 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: what's interesting is that people around him were ignoring what 296 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: was happening despite their hunches. Guys, the one thing Pazuzu 297 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: feared was going to jail because he was afraid he 298 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: couldn't do his blood rituals every month on the Dark Moon. 299 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: Talk about cruel and unusual punishment to doctor Kendall Crowns, 300 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: joining US Deputy and me and Travis County, Texas. He 301 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: is a pathologist, doctor Crowns, how do you determine cause 302 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: of death? When a body has been buried, time has 303 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: gone by, the body has decomposed, how do you manage 304 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: to ferret out the truth? So depending on how much 305 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: decomposition has occurred, if you still have organs left, you 306 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: can still even though they've decomposed quite a bit, you 307 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: can still find injuries in the organs that can help 308 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: you determine cause of death and even natural disease processes. 309 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 1: If they've decomposed so much that they've become skeletons and 310 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: there's no tissue left whatsoever, we can still look at 311 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: the bones and find injuries on the bones like fractures, 312 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: and traumatic injuries like stab wounds and gunshot wounds, things 313 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: of that nature, where we can still make the determination 314 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: that this person did indeed to high of trauma. And 315 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: of course, with a bullet wound, you look for an entry. 316 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: If there's not an exit, you may very well find 317 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: the bullet in the body. Doctor Browns, have you ever 318 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: had to work on a body that had already begun 319 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: to decompose. Yes, I've had to do autopsies on decompost 320 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: cases thousands of times, and skeleton cases for that matter. 321 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: Now when you say skeleton cases, what do you mean 322 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: by that, Doctor Crowns. I could listen to you talk 323 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: about medical examination all day long. Now you've got me 324 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: interested about how you perform an autopsy on a skeletonized body. 325 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: How do you do that? So when the remains are 326 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: brought in, what we'll do is we'll do an X 327 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: ray or a CT scan where we'll look for any 328 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: lead or anything like that from a bullet or a 329 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: knife that's still in the bony remains. Then we'll take 330 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: the remains out of the bag and we'll sort through 331 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: them and we'll arrange them anatomically and determine how many 332 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: bones we have, if there's any missing, etc. And then 333 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: wait a minute, doctor Crown's question, can you, and don't 334 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 1: be modest, can you look at a bone and just 335 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: looking at it and know where it goes on the body. Oh, yes, 336 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: there's certain there's certain marks on the bones that you 337 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: can determine if it's right or left. And Okay, we're 338 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: all extremely impressed here in the studio. This may be 339 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: child's play to you, But the thought that you could 340 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 1: look at a bone and know exactly where it goes 341 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: on the human body, I've always been really curious. I 342 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: was thinking about I can't remember what case it was. 343 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: It may have been Kelly Anthony top Mom's daughter, where 344 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: the cops and the medical examine or investigators were out 345 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: late into the night trying to find all of her 346 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: over two hundred bones so the medical examiner could put 347 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: them together. I guess to you, it's like you know 348 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people baking a cake. You put in 349 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: the flower, you put in the sugar, blah blah, then 350 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: you have a cake. You can look at a bone 351 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: and tell where it goes in a body. Another question, 352 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns and believe or not. After all the 353 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: years I have prosecuted homicides and covered them, I've never 354 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: asked this, Doctor Crowns. When you have a case where 355 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: the body has begun to decompose, and, like the visitor said, 356 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: the stinch was unbearable, how do you perform the autopsy 357 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: with the smell of decomposition? How do you do that? 358 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: It con cly What we always tell people is you 359 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: breathe through your mouth, not your nose, and you don't 360 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: smell the smell as much, and then if you don't 361 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: leave the room, you can come basically nose blind to 362 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: it over time. For myself in particular, my older brother 363 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: knocks me around a few times that I I've had 364 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: head trauma and I have never really been able to 365 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: smell all that well. So I was uniquely suited for 366 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: this line of work because of that. Okay, I'm totally 367 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: stealing your life from my next murder mystery novel, because Jackie, 368 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: please write this down. I've never heard of that before. 369 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: A perfect job for you. I was just wondering if 370 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: medical examiners use some type of a head covering or 371 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: a mask or something so the d comp doesn't just 372 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: overwhelm them. I've seen cops and I actually am writing 373 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: about this and my next fiction book where a rookie 374 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: cop goes to a crime scene there's d comp and 375 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: he actually just starts vomiting because the smell is so overwhelming. 376 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: You know, he's getting lost in the sauce right now, 377 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: And it's my fault. Joshua Retzler and Tommy Welch, who 378 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: for no known reason lose their life to a man 379 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: who says his goal in life is to be a demon. 380 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Amber Birch's involvement in the 381 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: murders and their proper burials of two men at this 382 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: Clement's home began in July of two thousand and nine. 383 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: Detectives say the first victim was Joshua Wetsler. He'd been 384 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: living in the home of devil Worshiper pursues you Algarad 385 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: until Algarad shot and killed him and hit his body 386 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: in the basement. Algarrod called Birch his girlfriend, and she 387 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: came up from South Carolina to help bury Wetsler. When 388 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: josh and Tommy were discovered, the dam with the families 389 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: and they told us they were going to fill us 390 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: in on everything that was going to happen at the trial. 391 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: And I'd spend two and a half years since they 392 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: found josh and all this time, you know, we kept 393 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: asking when is there going to be an indictment, when 394 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: is there going to be a trial, and we never 395 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: were contacted with any information. Finally, two years after the 396 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: bodies were found in the backyard at not Hell amber Burg, 397 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: she takes a plea deal and finally appears in court 398 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: to answer for what she's done. You're hearing our friends 399 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: at Viceland and the Devil, you know, and they are 400 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: talking about a guy whose lifelong goal it wasn't to 401 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: win the Olympics, It wasn't to be president of the bank. 402 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: It was to be a demon and he named himself 403 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: after a demon in The Exorcist. Pizzuzu Algarod born John 404 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: Lawson charged in the murders of Joshua Wretzler and Tommy Welch. 405 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: But what about Amanda Birch and Crystal Matlocke Are they 406 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: both his quote fiances to leave by Page Crime online 407 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. Who are these women, Amanda Birch 408 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: and Crystal Matlock And what if anything did they have 409 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: to do with the murders. Amber Birch was his girlfriend, Nancy, 410 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: And this guy wanted to emulate Charles Manson, so he 411 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: collected women to join this cult and that's what they did, 412 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: and they were his accessories. His other fiance that he 413 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: called her, twenty eight year old Crystal Matlock. She was 414 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: accused of helping him in birch Bury the bodies and 415 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: she was charged as an accessory after the fact. Wow, 416 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: you know, you would think that there were plenty of 417 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: red flags with a guy who's apparently lifelong dream is 418 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: to be a demon. Well, guess what there were. Al 419 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: Gerard was arrested in two ten and charged with accessory 420 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: after the fact in the murder of Joseph Chandler, a 421 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: legally blind man from Clemens whose body was found at 422 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: Donna Park in Yakin County June seven, twenty ten. Four 423 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: years later, al Gerard here is apparently back behind bars 424 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: along with Birch at the First Sithe County Detention Center. 425 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: Both are charged with one count of murder and one 426 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: count of accessory after the fact to murder. They're also 427 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: being held without bond. The skeletal remains have been taken 428 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: to Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center for a positive identification 429 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: and further examination. You were hearing our friend again to 430 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 1: Letha Vickers there at w XII. To kim belcom New 431 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: York criminal defense attorney, kN what is accessory after the fact? 432 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: Escessory after the fact is when you take part in 433 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: the cover up in the crime, usually, or you know, 434 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: you undertake some sort of efforts to assist in the 435 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: person who committed the crime, sort of evading detection, avating consequences. 436 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: It was curious to me, Steve Lampley, detective joining us today, 437 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: that no motive has ever been revealed. And again, as 438 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: kim belcol will back me up on this, the States 439 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: never required to prove motive in any case, but for 440 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: practical reasons, the jury wants to hear why they want 441 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: to make it all fit together, Levi Page, Was there 442 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: any motive that we could discern? There was no motive, Nancy, 443 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: other than this guy was just dark. That's the best 444 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: way that I can describe him. That's the most polite way. 445 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: I guess it would be for the same reason that 446 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: he killed animals and drink their blood. Why, I guess 447 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: the answer to that is why ask why to Leavi 448 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: Page investigative reporter. I'm just very curious as to with 449 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: all of these red flags, including being connected to a 450 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: prior death of a blind man, how is a self 451 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: proclaimed demon worshiper Pazuzu Algarette able to get away with 452 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: all of these crimes for so long? And were there 453 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: tips to police about the bodies or anything else. Well, 454 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: this is what happened, Nancy. He was arrested in twenty ten. 455 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: He was charged with accessory after the fact for the 456 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: shooting death of Joseph Chandler, that blind person. He let 457 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: the killer of that man stay in his home where 458 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: these wild, disgusting parties were going on, and he played 459 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: guilty and was sentenced to probation, and he went back 460 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: to the home. And in twenty ten his home was 461 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: actually searched and they discovered this huge mess, you know, 462 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: animal defication, human defication. People would relieve themselves all over 463 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: the place. It was trashed, and they never found those 464 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: bodies in the backyard until people that partied with him 465 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: complained to the police and said, this guy has bragged 466 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: about killing people. It smells of death in the home. 467 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: And then police went back and then they dug up 468 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: the bodies of those missing young men in their early thirties. 469 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: But my question is all that is accurate, But how 470 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: did he get away for so long with this type 471 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: of behavior. I think because he was so crazy, Nancy, 472 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: that people didn't take him seriously, if that makes sense. 473 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: They's rantings about killing people. I mean, this guy has 474 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: even while in jail, he has said that he killed 475 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: sex workers, prostitutes, that he's killed more people than has 476 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: been attributed to him that he had been charged with. 477 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: And I think people chalked it up to this is 478 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: just the rantings of a madman and did not take 479 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: it seriously. And then when they did come to search 480 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: the home, they found nothing. Yes, and I think that 481 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: that can be chocked up because they didn't do a 482 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: thorough job of searching the home. How do you miss 483 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: two dead bodies in the backyard. Cadaver dogs would have 484 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: found that. You know what, You're right, But at the 485 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: time two thousand and ten, did they have reason to 486 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: bring cadaver dogs? Well, I think that if if your 487 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: home is like this and there's people saying this guy 488 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: has bragged about killing people, his home smells like death, 489 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: that could have been probable caused a brain Well, I agree, 490 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: I agree, But in two thousan ten, I don't know 491 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: that people were saying it smells like death, because when 492 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: were the two victims, Joshua Wrestler and Tommy Welch murdered? 493 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: What date in two thousand and nine is when they 494 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: went missing? They were reported missing in two thousand and nine, 495 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: and they were apparently killed inside of his home according 496 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: to his co conspirators. Well, you know what, then you 497 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: may be right that cadaver dogs would have found that, 498 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: and that this stench of death was already there. To 499 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: Karen Stark, psychologists joining us out of Manhattan, Karen, why 500 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: do you believe that this guy, a self professed damon 501 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: Bazuzu Algarad got away with his crimes for so long? 502 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: But I think that what we're talking about is that 503 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: the police did not do a thorough enough job. Nancy, 504 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. Was it that he was so bizarre 505 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: that they thought that it must be a joke? It 506 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't make a lot of sense. There's something that 507 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: was missing because if other people were smelling death and 508 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: the police show up there, and why didn't they bring 509 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: the dogs? Why didn't they smell that. How come they 510 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: didn't do a thorough enough search. Something went wrong with 511 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: the justice in this case. I'm thinking to you Ken Melko, 512 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: new York criminal defense attorney, about one of the three fiances, 513 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Amber Birch. She was sentenced to forty years up to 514 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: forty years for shooting Joshua Wessler. Do you see similarities 515 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: between her case and the Manson murders. I do see similarities. 516 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: You know, this is this is a young woman who's 517 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: taken in by a Kara's type psychopair an influenced arguably 518 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: to do, but have never done otherwise. I couldn't draw 519 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: a closer line to it than that, except for the 520 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: fact that you know, Manson looked slightly more normal than 521 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: this guy. Yeah, you know what, You're right to leave 522 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: I page. Who do they believe actually pulled the trigger? 523 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: So he is the one that pulled the triggers. They 524 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: were actually inside of his home when these murders happened. 525 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: They were regulars in his home, They parted with him, 526 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: and he is the one that shot him. And then 527 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: his girlfriends actually came in after the fact and helped 528 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: him bury and dispose of these bodies. But here's the thing, Nancy. 529 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: Law enforcement has said that these bodies were inside of 530 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: his home for weeks before they actually buried them in 531 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: the backyard. So he was living inside of this house 532 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: with dead bodies in there for weeks. That's how demented 533 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: that he is. You know what, there's actually no telling 534 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: what he did to those bodies. To doctor Kendall Crowns, 535 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: joining US Pathologist Deputy Medical Examiner Travis County, Texas, Doctor 536 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: Crowns would, even if a body has been decomposing, would 537 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: you be able to determine if, for instance, satanic rituals 538 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: were done on the bodies. Oh, of course. Sometimes when 539 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: you get mutilation of the bodies for rituals or for whatever, 540 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: you can still tell even with decompositions. Occasionally the maggots 541 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: will come in and they'll they'll eat away at the wounds, 542 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: but you'll still be able to tell that it's traumatic 543 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: in nature. Question to you leave page, investigative reporter, what 544 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: do authorities believe was the motive behind the killings? They 545 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: actually don't know the motive behind the killings. This guy 546 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: apparently was so demented, Nancy and was so attracted to 547 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: the dark side. I mean, if you've looked at his home. 548 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: There's trash everywhere. He allowed people to defecate in urinee 549 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: inside the home and made his dogs clean it up. 550 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: This home was in such a mess, Nancy, that it 551 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: had to be demolished. Nobody could live in that home. 552 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: After he and his girlfriends were arrested. They think that 553 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: this is just someone that was just absolutely demented for 554 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: no reason at all. He was just attracted to the 555 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: dark side. You know, I'm wondering if he believed that 556 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: in order to truly become a demon he had to 557 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: commit a murderer. Well, you may be if not happy 558 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: relieved to note that he was so disturbed about not 559 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: being able to perform his blood rituals behind bars on 560 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: the quote dark moon each month he committed suicide. He 561 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: had always promised that he would bite his finger to 562 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: the bone and then puncture and artery. He actually did 563 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: bleed out behind bars, we think from a self inflicted wound. Well, 564 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: Pasuzu algorid aka John Lawson. I don't think you're going 565 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: to be missed, Nancy Grace, Crime Stories signing off and ps, 566 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: I think I know where you are. You wanted to 567 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: be a demon, well right now, you're having dinner with demons. 568 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: Goodbye friends,