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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Lessnett's Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Rick Matera Tanda a Goose. Rick, how

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Speaker 1: did it feel to play Madison Square Garden?

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Speaker 2: Thanks? Thanks for having me, Bob. Felt surreal for sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up in Connecticut and that's you know,

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Speaker 2: that's it, you know, bears a lot of weight in

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Speaker 2: our world in many ways. So yeah, it was. It

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Speaker 2: was a wild experience. You know. It's just really grateful

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Speaker 2: that we were able to do it.

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Speaker 1: And any difference other than you know, the Gravitas location,

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Speaker 1: Was there any different thing in the show or the

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Speaker 1: fact that there were fifteen thousand people.

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Speaker 2: There in terms of our show? Yeah, we what we did.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's so much, you know, like like

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Speaker 2: you said, the gravity toss of the whole thing. There's

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Speaker 2: there's so much uh lore and history and every so

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Speaker 2: many respects that you know, I think we obviously we're

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Speaker 2: readily aware of all that, and UH just did our

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Speaker 2: best to to you know, to bring the heat, I guess,

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Speaker 2: to uh to do to do what we do, try

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Speaker 2: to show up and be present.

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Speaker 1: You know. So you're from Wilton, Connecticut, Yeah, I'm from Fairfield,

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Speaker 1: which is right now exactly. So you grew up in Wilton.

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Speaker 1: What did your parents do for a living?

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Speaker 2: They both worked in insurance. I think when I was

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Speaker 2: born my mom stopped working in insurance. My dad kept

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Speaker 2: kept working in insurance reinsurance and you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: worked his way up in that industry.

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Speaker 1: And did he work in the city or you know,

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Speaker 1: Wilton Westport?

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Speaker 2: Uh? He was worked mostly in Stanford as far as

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Speaker 2: I can recall. I think he was bouncing around a

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Speaker 2: different companies, mostly in Stanford.

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Speaker 1: And how many kids in the family.

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Speaker 2: It's me and I have a sister. He's ten years

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Speaker 2: older than me.

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Speaker 1: And what's she up to.

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Speaker 2: She's a teacher. She's got three little boys, and she

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Speaker 2: lives she lives in Richfield a couple times.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Ridgefield Playhouse. So you're growing up. Was there music

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Speaker 1: in the house? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: My dad was from Long Island and so you know,

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Speaker 2: there's like a lot of Billy Joel and he was

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Speaker 2: into smooth jazz there, you know, some jazz guitar players,

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Speaker 2: but kind of like you know, like Larry Coriel. He

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Speaker 2: liked a lot, so it was kind of random stuff.

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Speaker 2: He liked Springsteen, he liked Delvert McClinton a lot, which

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Speaker 2: you know sometimes we gave him a hard time about that.

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Speaker 1: But why a hard time about Delvert McClinton.

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Speaker 2: It kind of just be came a joke, No, no

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Speaker 2: shade to Delbert whatsoever, but it just it just became

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Speaker 2: this this stick where my mom and I would would

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Speaker 2: bust his chops about his his Delbert obsession.

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Speaker 1: Sandy Beach is good song there by DOUBLET mcclinn. So

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Speaker 1: did you listen to his music and like his music

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Speaker 1: or did you quickly get your own music?

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Speaker 2: Billie Joel took from a from a young age. You know,

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Speaker 2: I I started really uh loving some of those songs

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Speaker 2: when I would ride in his car and stuff. But

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, my sister listened to Dave Matthews

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Speaker 2: a lot when I was when I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: a very young kid, and that that took even more

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Speaker 2: took a minute. I didn't like it. It didn't speak to

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Speaker 2: me at first when I was really young, but at

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Speaker 2: you know, at a certain point that one, that one

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Speaker 2: really kind of took hold.

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Speaker 1: And when did you start playing an instrument? Uh?

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Speaker 2: Sixth grade was the they rented a guitar for the

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Speaker 2: first time for me, and I took a couple lessons.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I was probably eleven or twelve.

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Speaker 1: So what was the motivation for them to rent a

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Speaker 1: guitar for you?

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Speaker 2: I had been asking for a while. I had a

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Speaker 2: music had just a like a crazy effect on me

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Speaker 2: as a kid. Any anything I listened to. I mean

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Speaker 2: I remember like it was the you know, the CD era,

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Speaker 2: so I got like the space dram sound. It really

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Speaker 2: didn't matter it was I had a discman, I'd walk

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Speaker 2: around and with my little headphones and listen to whatever

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Speaker 2: CD I could get my hands on, and things just

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Speaker 2: had like a they just made me feel like a

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Speaker 2: like a crazy person, you know, had had a profound effect.

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Speaker 2: So I was always drawn to it. I was always,

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Speaker 2: you know, pretty intensely moved by it. And then seeing older,

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Speaker 2: older brothers and and things like that of friends of

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Speaker 2: mine playing guitar. There's you know a few experiences like that, right.

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Speaker 2: I saw someone playing you know, smells like teen spirit

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Speaker 2: on a guitar, and I was like, whoa, yeah that

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Speaker 2: I want to do that.

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Speaker 1: So they rented the guitar. What were lessons like.

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Speaker 2: Those? First? The first couple lessons, I don't even remember, honestly,

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Speaker 2: I started studying with a guy named Bob Ricchio in

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Speaker 2: in Wilton, and uh, it was a kind of a

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Speaker 2: slow start in the beginning. I you know, I liked

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Speaker 2: to play music that I you know, liked in that

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Speaker 2: you know, like recordings of some great songs and pretend

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Speaker 2: like I was playing it like I knew what I

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Speaker 2: was doing, and I really didn't. And I also started

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Speaker 2: writing kind of right away before I had any discipline

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Speaker 2: with practicing or anything like that. I started if I

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Speaker 2: learned a chord or something, I just started making up songs.

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Speaker 2: That was. That was kind of something that happened right

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Speaker 2: out of the gate. But the discipline to start actually

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Speaker 2: studying music and working on and practicing took took a

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Speaker 2: little bit for me, didn't. It didn't happen right away.

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Speaker 1: Well, starting writing songs, was it something like you'd been

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Speaker 1: writing before, non musical stuff? Poet three short stories? Where

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Speaker 1: did the genesis come from?

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Speaker 2: You know? When I was when I was really young,

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Speaker 2: I would I would, you know, make up little little

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Speaker 2: like really silly little things and be like, hey, you

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Speaker 2: want to hear my song. It's going to be some

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Speaker 2: silly little thing, but really not not much of that.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't writing a ton of poetry prior to that

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Speaker 2: that I recall at least stuff to remember some of

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Speaker 2: these things sometimes. But I think when I when I started,

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Speaker 2: you know, when I got a guitar and started really

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Speaker 2: getting into music, it just it all kind of happened

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Speaker 2: at once around that Around that time, you know, the

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Speaker 2: music kind of came first, and then I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to write lyrics for this and write songs.

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Speaker 2: So I wrote little songs about you know, bullies at school,

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Speaker 2: whatever whatever it was, and quickly got into recording with whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, whatever kind of recording apparatus I could get

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Speaker 2: my hands on at the time, which you know, I

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Speaker 2: could started with like a little cassette recorder thing, which

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Speaker 2: was awesome.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if you're writing a bullies at school, were you

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Speaker 1: bullied at school?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Not not particularly, but I just like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: sometimes sometimes I get there. There's there's definitely certain situations

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Speaker 2: where I, uh, you know, I caught a caught a

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Speaker 2: hard time. But it was also like, when I think

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Speaker 2: back to that was kind of an observational thing too,

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Speaker 2: just like seeing seeing people going through their own stuff,

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Speaker 2: but then like taking it out on other people that

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I just the first song I kind

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Speaker 2: of remember writing was about that.

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Speaker 1: And how did you fit in in school?

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Speaker 2: I went through like different phases. There's a bunch I

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Speaker 2: think a good number of years I was pretty quiet.

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Speaker 2: It kind of like phase in and out of different

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Speaker 2: zones and then sometimes you know, it kind of had

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Speaker 2: this pattern of like I'd go into a new school

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Speaker 2: and you know, kind of had like the slate would

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Speaker 2: be clean, and I would I'd be really quiet and

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Speaker 2: kind of keep to myself and really shy. I was

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Speaker 2: pretty like, I was pretty shy. I've always been pretty

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Speaker 2: shy and like socially anxious. But then you know, by

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Speaker 2: the end of my time out of school, i'd have,

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Speaker 2: you know, a group of friends and a little micro

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Speaker 2: community kind of thing, and it changed forms a bunch.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, when I was really young, I

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Speaker 2: was I was less shy, and then I think when

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Speaker 2: I hit middle school is when I started getting really

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Speaker 2: shy and awkward and anxious.

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Speaker 1: So did you do well in school? Did you participate

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Speaker 1: in activity sports?

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Speaker 2: I played sports up into up until high school, and uh,

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Speaker 2: and I had a really good time doing it. I

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Speaker 2: played baseball the most, the longest, I would say, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: by the time I got to high school was it

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Speaker 2: was kind of like I saw that the the demands

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Speaker 2: that you know, playing sports in high school had, and

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Speaker 2: by that time I was already way too set on

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Speaker 2: pursuing music and I wanted to kind of do everything

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Speaker 2: I could do in that regard. So yeah, I kind

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Speaker 2: of made the conscious decisions to not to stop playing sports.

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Speaker 2: By by high school school I was, I was, I

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Speaker 2: was like, all right, it wasn't great. Definitely wasn't That

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Speaker 2: didn't come super easily to me. Some some subjects were

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Speaker 2: easier than others. But it wasn't like a it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a total mess, but you know, it wasn't great.

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Speaker 1: So you're taking lessons. What is your teacher teaching you?

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Speaker 1: And are you practicing?

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Speaker 2: And the beginning is kind of the route of, you know,

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Speaker 2: the the typical rudimentary stuff. You know, he showed me,

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Speaker 2: like a chili pepper song and he kind of showing

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Speaker 2: showing songs and licks and stuff like that, and chords.

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Speaker 2: He was he was a good teacher in that way,

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Speaker 2: and he taught a lot of people, a lot of

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Speaker 2: kids in in the town. There and uh, I you

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Speaker 2: know it, like I said, it took me a while

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Speaker 2: before I started gaining gaining any discipline or getting serious

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Speaker 2: about it or you know, showing real progress in that regard.

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Speaker 2: I was always taken with it, but you know, it

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Speaker 2: was more in the writing, in the creative, creative side.

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Speaker 2: And then at a certain point, Uh, that started to

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Speaker 2: shift throughout middle school, I would say, And and I

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Speaker 2: think by the you know, there was there was a

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Speaker 2: turning point with him where he started to realize that

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Speaker 2: I was I was really I was taking it seriously

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Speaker 2: and pursuing it. And when he saw that I was

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Speaker 2: starting to make strides, he started pushing me more and

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Speaker 2: more into jazz and started teaching me jazz. That was

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Speaker 2: That was kind of where that journey started in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: I would say, So, did he teach you how to

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Speaker 1: read music? Can you read music today?

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Speaker 2: Not proficiently? He did? You know? That was something that

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Speaker 2: he taught and we're worked on and you know, I

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Speaker 2: went to I went to music school, so it was

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Speaker 2: it was part of that, but I kind of just

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Speaker 2: got by with it. It was never it was never

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Speaker 2: something that was that I became, you know, very very

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Speaker 2: competent with.

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Speaker 1: So he got you into jazz. What kind of jazz.

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Speaker 2: He you know, he just started throwing standards at me

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Speaker 2: and and teaching, you know, showing me how to get

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Speaker 2: through the chord changes and and uh and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't I didn't really get a knack for playing

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Speaker 2: through changes until I did a summer program at Berkeley. Well,

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Speaker 2: some summer I was in high school. I did like

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Speaker 2: a I don't know if that was the one week

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Speaker 2: guitar thing or the five week program. I forget what

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Speaker 2: it was, but they you know, I went and did

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Speaker 2: this ensemble and they put five hundred miles high. It

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Speaker 2: was the Chickeria tune in front of me, and and

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Speaker 2: I was still I still really didn't know what I

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Speaker 2: was doing. At that point. I could, I could solo,

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Speaker 2: you know over a modal thing. But you know, the

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Speaker 2: first quarter was E minor, and you know, the head

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Speaker 2: came around. I learned the head and played the head,

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Speaker 2: and then solo came around. Everyone look to me and

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Speaker 2: they're like, all right, you know, go and I was

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Speaker 2: like E minor cool, got it and started selling over

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Speaker 2: E minor. The second chord is G minor, which is

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Speaker 2: like a total total change, and uh, you know, I

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Speaker 2: kept selling an E minor and sounded like a total dufist.

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Speaker 2: So that was like the wake up of what that

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Speaker 2: is was really all about. And uh that that was

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Speaker 2: like the turning point there for me, which was like,

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Speaker 2: it was a really cool moment for me in my

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Speaker 2: musical journey, I guess because I just took that tune

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Speaker 2: and sat down and learned the chord scales for every

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Speaker 2: every change and learned it in each position. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, that was that was kind of the the

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Speaker 2: impetus and in the moment catalyst for learning that type

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Speaker 2: of thing, which was a cool experience.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You start writing songs. Most people

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Speaker 1: start writing songs think their initial songs are fantastic and

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Speaker 1: want to play them for people. Later they realized they sucked,

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Speaker 1: but at first they think they're great. Welling through your mind.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think back to that period so often,

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Speaker 2: especially now, the freedom I had at that age that

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Speaker 2: I think everyone has at that age in one way

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Speaker 2: or another, and I imagine that you know, it varies

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Speaker 2: quite a bit. I you know, can't can't under undervalue

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Speaker 2: or or you know, I can't stress enough how how

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Speaker 2: incredible was to have parents that were really supportive and

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Speaker 2: and you know kind of we're there for it, whatever

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Speaker 2: it was. But uh, yeah I didn't. I don't. I

253
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Speaker 2: wasn't thinking about if they were good or not. And

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Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to go out

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Speaker 2: and play play them at gigs. I wasn't trying to

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Speaker 2: play them for people or like trying to do anything

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Speaker 2: with them. The the discovery of them, like figuring out

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Speaker 2: of learning some chords and finding a new chord progression

259
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Speaker 2: that I hadn't I don't know, just discovering this the

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Speaker 2: sound of a new chord progression and then writing a

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Speaker 2: song and then recording a song. That's really all I

262
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Speaker 2: wanted to do, was like write these songs and record them.

263
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Speaker 2: And that thing was just like the most thrilling process.

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Speaker 2: That was the most thrilling thing I could possibly do

265
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Speaker 2: with my time at that time. And yeah, there there wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I really wasn't thinking about playing gigs or or or

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Speaker 2: doing anything with it. It. Eventually, I you know, got

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Speaker 2: a band together, I got a got my best friend

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Speaker 2: to start playing bass, and and we you know, found

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Speaker 2: another guy who we were friends with at school and

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Speaker 2: he was playing drums. We had a trio and by

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Speaker 2: eighth grade we recorded like an album in my in

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Speaker 2: my basement with a little cork twelve track you know,

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Speaker 2: you just burn you bounce everything down into a CD

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Speaker 2: and I you know, uh copied a bunch of CDs

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Speaker 2: and sold him around school and that was like it

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Speaker 2: was it was this just the purity of the whole

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Speaker 2: thing was just I you know, I think back to

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Speaker 2: it all the time. It was kind of doesn't get

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Speaker 2: better than that.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: We'd get have like band practice once a week after school,

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Speaker 2: come home and eat popcorn chicken and go down to

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Speaker 2: the basement and just you know, whack it around. And

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Speaker 2: it was it was like that's it still feels like

286
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Speaker 2: that's what it's all about, you know. But uh, yeah,

287
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Speaker 2: that you know, it wasn't uh. I think the only

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Speaker 2: show we really ever played was the Talent Show in

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Speaker 2: eighth grade, which I was you know, that was the

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Speaker 2: first time I'd really performed. I think the Talent Show

291
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Speaker 2: in eighth grade. You know, we had we had made

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Speaker 2: this this this album had like fifteen tracks on it

293
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Speaker 2: and sold around school and had never played out anywhere,

294
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Speaker 2: but never played live or anything like that, and uh,

295
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Speaker 2: you know, it was this. It was this like the

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Speaker 2: night the day of the thing, Everyone's like you nervous.

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, I feel totally fine. And then

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Speaker 2: I just like threw up everywhere. So I guess that

299
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Speaker 2: was the the maiden voyage of learning what what performance

300
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Speaker 2: anxiety does to my nervous system. But yeah, it was

301
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Speaker 2: It was a it was a funny experience.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you say about recording to cassette, did you have

303
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Speaker 1: a four track poored a studio? When you're talking about cassette,

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Speaker 1: how sophisticated was it?

305
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Speaker 2: The cassette thing was very unsophisticated. It wasn't even a

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Speaker 2: four track, and I barely remember that it was pretty

307
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Speaker 2: it was fairly short lived. That was like that was

308
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Speaker 2: in the early early stages. And I honestly don't even

309
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Speaker 2: know what that thing was and where it came from.

310
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Speaker 2: I just remember sitting in my bedroom and it just

311
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Speaker 2: had like a built in microphone and it was I

312
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Speaker 2: think you could I don't even know if you could,

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Speaker 2: if if you could layer anything, it might have just

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Speaker 2: been like a one done kind of situation. But I

315
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Speaker 2: remember I would, like, you know, play and sing and record,

316
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Speaker 2: and then have had a buddy who was like kind

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Speaker 2: of starting to learn drums. It was like early early,

318
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Speaker 2: the first things. And he he didn't have a drum set,

319
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Speaker 2: but he was taking drum lessons and he had a

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Speaker 2: practice pad, so he would come over and he would

321
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Speaker 2: just like whack on the pack practice pad and I

322
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Speaker 2: would learn it. So that was that was kind of

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Speaker 2: the the first thing, which is you know, pretty short lived.

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Speaker 1: So then did you graduate you're talking about you made

325
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Speaker 1: this album? What equipment did you make the album on?

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Speaker 2: By that time that was probably a couple of years later.

327
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Speaker 2: I had this this COREK twelve track, which then I

328
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Speaker 2: was I was you know, I spent a lot of

329
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Speaker 2: time with that thing. I was able to you know,

330
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Speaker 2: had twelve tracks. And then you know we had I

331
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Speaker 2: had a few a handful of microphones enough to make

332
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Speaker 2: up a drum set and track you know like bass,

333
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Speaker 2: d I guitar maybe I threw a mic in the

334
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Speaker 2: guitar amp on or do I don't even remember, and

335
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Speaker 2: then uh, you know, a vocal mic and and you

336
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,919
Speaker 2: know a few mics for the drum set. So that

337
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 2: was all going to the cork and then I would

338
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Speaker 2: overdub vocals just to uh, you know, but I was

339
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Speaker 2: a horrible singer. But I had no awareness I did,

340
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: you know. I was just doing it, having a great time.

341
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Speaker 2: But this singing thing was was never never there, never easy,

342
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Speaker 2: never was I was not a natural singer by any stretch.

343
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Speaker 1: Okay, you pick up the guitar in middle school, are

344
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Speaker 1: you the outlier? Or is everybody playing instruments?

345
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 2: Uh? Not necessarily, I wouldn't say either. There's like it

346
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 2: somewhat of my minority. For sure. Everyone wasn't playing instruments,

347
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 2: but you know, there was like you kind of knew

348
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 2: everyone who was. There's a handful of people that were

349
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 2: doing it, and everyone had their own kind of thing

350
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,679
Speaker 2: that they were doing or working on or into. So

351
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 2: there weren't that many, but everyone was kind of aware

352
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 2: of everyone that was that was checking it out.

353
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Speaker 1: And when you started writing songs recording, who did you

354
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: want to be?

355
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Speaker 2: That's a good question, you know, Like in middle school,

356
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 2: I mean, Dave Matthews was kind of this like this, uh,

357
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 2: this touchstone throughout a lot of through really always so

358
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 2: that that was always, you know, a big inspiration his

359
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 2: whole world. But when I was in middle school, I had.

360
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 2: I had this this DVD called Under the Radar. It

361
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 2: was a Dispatch DVD, and it was it was kind

362
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 2: of this, uh, kind of scrappy DVD of them like

363
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 2: on the road and just doing things, going out of

364
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 2: the studio, playing shows, to talking about their come up

365
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 2: and Napster and that whole that whole thing. And I was,

366
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with that band at that time. So

367
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,239
Speaker 2: like I would say, in those early years of you know,

368
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 2: whould I want to be, it was Dispatch.

369
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Speaker 1: Okay, you got the two other members. You're in the basement.

370
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: Are you a dictator saying I write all the songs,

371
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 1: I want it this way, I want it that way.

372
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: And they were just basically I don't want to see

373
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,679
Speaker 1: your servants going along with you. What did it look like?

374
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: Uh, I don't remember it being like that, And I said, certainly,

375
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 2: I hope it wasn't like that. I think, uh, they

376
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,959
Speaker 2: were were we were kind of just you know, doing it.

377
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,639
Speaker 2: I was I was writing the songs and you know,

378
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 2: had had the ideas and was like, all right, let's

379
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 2: try this, let's try this. And it didn't feel like

380
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 2: there was I don't remember there being like they're they

381
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: were I think from what I recall, Uh, they were

382
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 2: just down down to go for the ride, you know,

383
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 2: and and you know they weren't they weren't writing songs.

384
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 2: It was either so it was kind of like a

385
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: all right, yeah, here's this is the song, let's do

386
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 2: it wasn't really didn't. I don't know. I think we

387
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: were too young for it to be any kind of

388
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:43,719
Speaker 2: ego battles.

389
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: I feel like, okay, so you finished the fifteen song,

390
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 1: should make the CD. I assume you just burned the

391
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: CDs on your own burner.

392
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, that the core trail track had it had like

393
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 2: a CD you could you could bounce it down to

394
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 2: a CD right on the thing and then just go

395
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: make copies in the computer.

396
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so how many did you sell it? At? What price?

397
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 2: I think I don't remember what we were selling for,

398
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 2: maybe like ten bucks, but I think we made like

399
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 2: somewhere between five hundred and seven hundred bucks something like that.

400
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: It got a little it got a little conflated because

401
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: the other two guys also crocheteded winter beanie hats, so

402
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: we were selling those two. So you know that they

403
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: were you know when we when when we weren't practicing

404
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: and stuff. They were just crocheting hats and they had

405
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 2: a little hat business called head Bandits. So we were

406
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 2: we were kind of little little entrepreneurs, I guess, running around.

407
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think the album we made five hundred

408
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 2: and seven hundred bucks something like that, which was pretty

409
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 2: solid enough to buy like a new base amp.

410
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, really solid. You know, you got a

411
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: couple of friends give you ten dollars, but how did

412
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 1: you convince the other seventy odd people to get it ten?

413
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 2: I think people were being nice, like teachers were buying them,

414
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 2: and you know, people were people were being nice. But

415
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: I guess it was a lot of kids at school.

416
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't I don't totally remember. There

417
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 2: there are some friends who are helping us help like

418
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: helping us burn them and like helping us sell them

419
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: and stuff. It was, you know, it's, uh, it's like

420
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: one of those things when you're when you're young. You know,

421
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: you got a little a little pack and everyone's kind

422
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 2: of like getting in on the like we're doing it

423
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: kind of energy. You know.

424
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: Well where people buying it, listening to it, they say,

425
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: oh I want to hear you play such and such.

426
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I mean I listened

427
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 2: back to it, and there's there's a lot of creative

428
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 2: freedom there. This is my own perspective. I guess there's

429
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: there's a lot of freedom in it and in the

430
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 2: songs and stuff, and a lot of decisions that were

431
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: made that I would never make now because they were

432
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: coming from a place of having no no like theoretical

433
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: understanding of of music and you know what, how like

434
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: what kind of chord progressions are normal and things like that,

435
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: which ended up making way more interesting choices, you know,

436
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: because it's it was just kind of throwing things at

437
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 2: the wall and chasing your ear and wound up being

438
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 2: some some things that just you know are just very

439
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 2: like kind of like wild card, wild card choices. But

440
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 2: the vocals, like I said, were just like brutal. So

441
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: I don't know if people listen to it or not.

442
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: Can So how did you go?

443
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: You know, you had stage fright, but how did your

444
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 1: performance of the talent show go over?

445
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 2: You know, I don't really know, Uh, I don't really know.

446
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 2: I think there was there was something to be said

447
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: for the just the fact that we were right that

448
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 2: a bunch of songs were being written. It was like

449
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: it was like there was like a body of original music,

450
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: So I guess there was. There was like that. I

451
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: remember that energy being kind of a thing, you know

452
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: because like the other other bands were probably better than us,

453
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 2: and you know, in the grade or whatever, but they

454
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: were playing covers, but like they're saying way better and

455
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: they're they're probably tighter and they played better or whatever

456
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 2: it was, but you know, they're they're being just a

457
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: lot of ideas, a lot of original songs happening. Uh

458
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: felt like an energy, But I don't I don't think.

459
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: I don't know if we were good or not, or

460
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: if people thought we were good. I have no idea.

461
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so you had a band, you were selling CDs,

462
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: you talk about these cover bands. How many bands were

463
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: in the school? I mean, was this this thing where

464
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: you were one of ten or one of two.

465
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: Like maybe one of four, one of four or five

466
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: something like that. There's like some rockers, you know, some

467
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: hard some hard metal kind of guys, and then uh,

468
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: you know some it was like another classic rock kind

469
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: of outfit and things like that.

470
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: Okay, little school, Ine go to high school. Then what happens.

471
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: The first year of high school. It was kind of

472
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: it was kind of like back to what I was

473
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: saying before, I was didn't really have a crew anymore.

474
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: It was it was it was like low men on

475
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: the Totem Pole I had. I had a girlfriend, and

476
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: I had like a really serious relationship, Like we spent

477
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: a lot of time together and we went in really

478
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 2: deep for for how young we were. And so I

479
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time doing that and kind of

480
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: didn't hang out with friends that much at all, and

481
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: was writing and recording a lot. But more so, the

482
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: band wasn't really playing anymore. I think the drummer just

483
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: didn't want to do it anymore. He stopped paying drums.

484
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: He was like he was actually amazing skier. He was

485
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: kind of pursuing that more and just wasn't interested in

486
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: playing drums anymore. So we kind of stopped doing the

487
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: band thing. But I continued to record a lot of

488
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: music and I kept I was writing more than ever

489
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: my first year of high school, and I had another

490
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 2: buddy who played drums and keys, and he would come

491
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: over and we would record stuff together. He'd play drums

492
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: and keys, I'd played guitar bass and sing something on it,

493
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: and so I was doing a lot of that, and

494
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: then the summer summer after first year of high school,

495
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: I started smoking weed and I got really into that,

496
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: really really into that, and the it kind of propelled

497
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: it was it was a major turning point in the

498
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: journey because I got deeper and deeper into that was

499
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: that was, you know, strangely when I really started studying music,

500
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 2: starting studying theory and improvisational music in particular, but I

501
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: stopped writing. I think, what is something about the way

502
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: that impacted my brain and how things were, you know,

503
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: there was there was still a lot of momentum and

504
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: forward movement in from a musical standpoint, but the writing

505
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: like halted in its tracks pretty much, which is you know,

506
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: somewhat of a regret looking back kind of, you know,

507
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: I can't help but be curious what would have happened

508
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: if I had stayed on the trajectory it was on

509
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: prior to that. But you know, nevertheless, I had a

510
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: great time in high school for the most part. You know,

511
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: it was those early years I was pretty sensitive and

512
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: emotional and you know whatever. But as as the years

513
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: went on, it was, you know, I had a lot

514
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: of fun. You know, in high school it was kind

515
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: of it was kind of like, you know, all you

516
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: could ask for, and you know, I didn't realize it.

517
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 2: I mean we was just having a great time at

518
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: the time going through things. You know, I had anxiety

519
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 2: and stuff too, but I guess it was mostly relative

520
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: to my perspective post high school that I that was.

521
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: That was when I really realized how great of a

522
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: time it was in so many respects. But yeah, it

523
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: was you know, studying the like with the guitar teacher,

524
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: he was pushing jazz more and I was studying that,

525
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: and that was kind of the time I got into

526
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: you know, the Dead and Fish and things of that.

527
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: You know, different types of jam bands. I'm Friese McGee

528
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: and MO and all these all these different bands and

529
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: learning that stuff. Getting into that world. Uh, playing along

530
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: with those bands was kind of the moments where it

531
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: was just like a release. It was just so much

532
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: fun and it was kind of like I'd spend time

533
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: studying jazz and trying to decode that language and then

534
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: let my hair down and play along with with, you know,

535
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: the jam bands in my room after school kind of thing.

536
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: So what happened with the girlfriend? How long did that last?

537
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: How did you meet her and how did it end?

538
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: We we were in school together and my sister actually

539
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: started babysitting for them. There was a yeah, we were

540
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,479
Speaker 2: kind of just in the same in same community, and

541
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: I just had a huge crush on her. And then

542
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: we started spending a bunch of time together and you know,

543
00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: went went full like young love mode. And then I

544
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: don't know, you know, when that summer after freshman year

545
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: of high school, I started smoking a bunch of weed

546
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: and we kind of just, I don't know, it's like

547
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: we just we kind of went separate ways in a way,

548
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, it's tough to remember how those

549
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: things unfold, but you know, they's like when you go

550
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: that that deep as a young kid, you have like

551
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: no idea, you have no idea what like what you're doing,

552
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: and you just kind of like the fall, you know,

553
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: neck deep into the young love thing and it's just

554
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: it's like consuming and then the there's there's you know,

555
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: strange things that come out of it when you don't

556
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: have balance. I guess that maybe that's that's part of

557
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: the thing, is I don't, you know, struggle with balance

558
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: when when there's something I'm you know, really uh drawn to.

559
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: I guess you know it's like, oh, make the analogy

560
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: of like getting getting a bag of Dorito's and dumping

561
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: out the entire bag of Dorito's on your lap. It's

562
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: a weird analogy, but that's that's kind of how we've

563
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: come to refer to that that type of energy instead

564
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: of you know, the lack of being able to pace

565
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: yourself or or maintain some kind of balance in the

566
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: context of entering into or being drawn, you know, engaging

567
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: with something that you're drawn to in in an intense way.

568
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: It could be you know, analogy. You know, it's it's

569
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: presented itself in all types of different situations. Relationships, a band,

570
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: you know anything.

571
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you're the type of guy who always has a girlfriend.

572
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: You had a girlfriend who were a freshman. You have

573
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: a girlfriend when you were sophomore junior? How did that

574
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: play out?

575
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: No? No, I was I was way too uh stoned

576
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: and shy to talk to girls for at least for

577
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,479
Speaker 2: the next couple of years I had. I ended up

578
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: having another girlfriend, and like when I was a senior,

579
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: but for the bulk of high school, I was I

580
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: was too stoned and shy talk to girls.

581
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: And who turned you on to dope.

582
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: I don't know e every you know, everyone was kind

583
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: of doing it, and I just it, uh it it

584
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: fired up like the you know, learning music, playing music,

585
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: listening to music on on weed. It was just I was,

586
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: I was. I was just taken with it, you know,

587
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was it was just around. It was

588
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: kind of as part of the culture where where we were,

589
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: as I imagine it was in most places.

590
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 1: And this was something your parents were aware of, unaware of,

591
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: cool with, not cool with.

592
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: They're they're pretty sharp, they're pretty aware. And at first

593
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: they were, you know, my mom was mortified, but then

594
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: as time went on, they you know, my house ended

595
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: up being the house that everyone would convene at. Like

596
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: we hung out at my house the most. You know,

597
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: if there was a party going around going on somewhere

598
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: in town, we we'd go there. But if there wasn't, we'd,

599
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: like the default thing was was hanging out of my house.

600
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: And you know, they they allowed. It wasn't like a

601
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: like a weird thing. You know, sometimes it gets kind

602
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: of weird when that's when that's the vibe. But they

603
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 2: knew what we were doing and they were cool with

604
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: it as long as everyone was making good decisions and

605
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: there I think their philosophy was like, we'd rather them

606
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: here safe and uh learning how to make good decisions

607
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: while partying. Then you know this it being this this

608
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: crazy forbidden thing and then making making much worse mistakes.

609
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, so we're in this story. Do you go

610
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: to the Brookley summer program? Uh?

611
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: You know, I don't remember what when that started. That

612
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: might I might have gone to the first one, like

613
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: at the freshman year after high school, or it could

614
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: have been after sophomore year. I'm not sure, but I

615
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: think I think one summer I did the guitar It

616
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: was just a week I did the guitar thing. There

617
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: was another a guitar uh program, like a one week

618
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: guitar camp kind of thing I did maybe uh maybe

619
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: a year prior. So I think it was like one

620
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: summer I did this one guitar camp somewhere in Connecticut,

621
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: and then I did a one week thing at Berkeley.

622
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: And then I think the following summer, I just I

623
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: was getting more and more serious and and uh about it,

624
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: and I did the five week program. Uh the following summer,

625
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: I think, and yeah, I was you know, I I

626
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: was very very lucky that my parents were able to

627
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: and willing to set me up in those programs and

628
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: and you know, that's like, that's the privilege I was.

629
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: It was, it was, it was privileged to be able

630
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: to learn music at that age.

631
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, you went on the five week programs?

632
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: What was that like? Were the students competitive? Were they

633
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 1: is good or better? Was it kind of like summer

634
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: camp where music was a part of it, but a

635
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: lot of it was living in the dorm hanging out.

636
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: What was the experience like.

637
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: The five week I mean, because the one week guitar

638
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 2: camp things were, those were I had a good time

639
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: at those. Those those kind of just they didn't. The

640
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: five week was was tough. I remember that being a

641
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: turning point. It wasn't as much of a communal kind of, hey,

642
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: everyone's here to learn how to jam kind of thing

643
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: it was. It was it was more intense. It was

644
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: more like college. Honestly, you know, you set up in

645
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 2: a dorm and the people doing that program were just

646
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: way more serious and the vast majority of them were

647
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: way better than me. And that was I think my

648
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: first brush. I remember very vividly having a conversation with

649
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: my with my dad out in the street one night,

650
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: maybe halfway through that thing where I was, I was

651
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: kind of homesick and like just getting my ass kicked.

652
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: It was it was the I mean, the talent there,

653
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 2: the talent pool. It was the classic thing of like,

654
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 2: you know, I was very comfortable. I wouldn't. I wasn't.

655
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't even a big fish in my little pond.

656
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: You know.

657
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: It wasn't even like that. It wasn't I wasn't good

658
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 2: enough to even have that be the vibe. But I

659
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: was comfortable in my little pond.

660
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: You know.

661
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 2: I had my own connection, my own experience with it

662
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 2: in my own little pond. And then I went there

663
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: and it was the first time I had the experience

664
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: of being totally decalibrated from that and kind of lost

665
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: in the soup of all these immensely talented but really

666
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: really competitive energies, you know. So yeah, I remember my

667
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: dad kind of My dad had an amazing ability to

668
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: to help people talk to talk to people and see

669
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: where they're at, and uh just like say the right thing.

670
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: He always knew how to how to do that, and uh, yeah,

671
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: I remember that night. That was so the five week

672
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: thing definitely stands out as a point of my first

673
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: brush with with that environment of losing feeling like I

674
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: was losing my own connection to music and why I

675
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: do it.

676
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in high school, you're smoking dough, you're playing

677
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: along to record, you stop writing songs. At what point

678
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: do you start having bands again in high school?

679
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: So throughout Yeah, there was like different things that happened

680
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: throughout high school. You know, I the guitar teachers started

681
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: setting me up with some some other kids who were

682
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: playing jazz, so I was kind of starting to play

683
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: with them a little bit. There was another project that

684
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: I played in. These these two guys were writing this

685
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: a bunch of they were really into dream theater and

686
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: they were writing this. One was like a classical trained uh,

687
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: piano player, pianist, and uh the other one was the drummer,

688
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: the same guy I was. I was kind of recording

689
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: songs with in uh, you know, earlier in high school,

690
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: and they were they were super into like progressive I

691
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: don't know, metal, progressive metal, hard rock, kind of kind

692
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: of dream theater kind of stuff. So they were writing

693
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: writing stuff like that, and Uh, I I was, you know,

694
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: I was in a band with them, and uh, we

695
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: would we were playing Teen Centers a bunch and and

696
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: doing that that kind of thing, and it was nice.

697
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: You know, I had had like a creative I had

698
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: creative input, I had a voice in that band. But

699
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 2: that was also, you know, one of the first early

700
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: experiences I had of being not the not the driving

701
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: force behind a project or you know, not like the

702
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: main main writer or something like that in a project,

703
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: just kind of like would come in and have ideas,

704
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: but mostly was the guitar player, you know. And it was, uh,

705
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: it was a great experience. We we learned a lot

706
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: together and and uh had a lot of fun like

707
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: playing playing these uh these teen Centers. It was a

708
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: very different scene than the people that I was, the

709
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: friends that I had, and the you know, the parties

710
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: I was going to and stuff like that. It was

711
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: it was a very different, very different world. And uh,

712
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: you know, I'd often like we'd have these gigs on

713
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: the weekend at teen Centers and there'd be like a

714
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: party that everyone else, all my friends were going to,

715
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: and I'd try to get some of them to come

716
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: to the Team Center with me, and They're like, nah,

717
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: we're gonna go to the party. I was like, all right,

718
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: so I'd go, I'd hang out with them for a

719
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: few hours and then roll into the Teen Center and

720
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: it was it was There was a lot of funny

721
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: experiences there. But yeah, I mean the music was they

722
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 2: The stuff they were writing kind of kind of kicked

723
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: my ass and in some different ways too, you know,

724
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 2: I was like dose they were it was like soloing

725
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: over some chord progression in fifteen and stuff like like

726
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: learning that was you know, they were pushing me to

727
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: do stuff like that, which was which was really cool

728
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: at that age. At the same time I was learning,

729
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: I was just learning a lot about music and studying,

730
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: studying jazz and stuff like that, and this they were nerd.

731
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: They were like kind of the nerdy metal guys, doing

732
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 2: weird number stuff, a lot of a lot of strange,

733
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: odd time stuff, and that was that was a that

734
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: was a really good learning experience in that way.

735
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: So you graduate from high school, then what.

736
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 2: Uh, graduate from high school and I got into Berkeley.

737
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: So I went to Berkeley. But yeah, yeah, so I

738
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: started Berkeley pretty much, you know, right after right after

739
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: high school.

740
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: And how long did that last? I did?

741
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: Uh? I think I did three years and then a band,

742
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: a band came together. Uh, there was there was a

743
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: guy throughout the college years, there was a guy that

744
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: I knew about. He was older, you know, like I said,

745
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: it's kind of small town. You you kind of know

746
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: all the people who are doing it older than you

747
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: and your your contemporaries. And I had known about him

748
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 2: from playing into different bands that he was in, and

749
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: also just people he was. He wrote a lot of

750
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: songs throughout high school and in college and stuff. And

751
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, some friends of mine knew about and like

752
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: would send me recordings of songs he wrote or different

753
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: things like that. I was, I was readily aware. And

754
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 2: then I think it was the summer. It was either

755
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 2: the summer going into my last year of high school

756
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: or the summer after my last year of high school.

757
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 2: Ran into him at a party which was coincidentally at

758
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: Trevor's house, the bass player for Goose. Now, there was

759
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: a party at Trevor's house and this guy's his name's

760
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: Matt Campbell. And he rolled into this party and and uh,

761
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I was pretty lit up. I was.

762
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: I was kind of a remote and I saw him.

763
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: I was like, you, like, I know you. I know,

764
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: you, you know, play and write and stuff like where's where's

765
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 2: your where's your gear? Let's get your gear, Let's play

766
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: right now. So he his parents' house was down the road,

767
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: and we drove and got his gear and came back

768
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 2: and that was the first time that we'd really connected

769
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: and really hung out. I don't really remember playing that night,

770
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: but I do remember the next day he came back

771
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: to get his gear and we played that afternoon, and

772
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: that was that was really the first time, like we

773
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: really connected and played music together, and it was it

774
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: was pretty impactful. So then throughout the years I was

775
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: in college and stuff, he was in college. Uh he graduated,

776
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: you know a year a few years prior to me.

777
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: Every summer we kind of would link up one way

778
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: or another and play, play gig or something or you know,

779
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: different little projects whatever it was. And then, uh, there

780
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 2: was this one summer after my second year of college,

781
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: I want to say where I was like, all right,

782
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: I just I gotta I gotta start, I gotta get

783
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: a band together, I gotta start doing something. So I

784
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: kind of went around and uh found a couple of

785
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: random guys at school. Who are I mean, there's so

786
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: many good players there was. It was insane, but I

787
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 2: found a couple of guys and started just booking gigs

788
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: at bars in Connecticut on the weekends this one summer

789
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: and also just like throwing parties at my house and

790
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: playing there. So we kind of got this little band

791
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: together this one summer and it was a it was

792
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: a really fun summer. And Matt had graduated from college

793
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: and got an internship at Red Light and he was

794
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: thinking about, you know, entering the music industry in that way,

795
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: and he didn't. He didn't get too far in that.

796
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: He was like, I don't. I don't think he was

797
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 2: there very long before he realized that it wasn't for him,

798
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: and he, you know, at that he had he'd been

799
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 2: playing with us that summer. We had some like really

800
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 2: great experiences the first time we started writing together. We

801
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 2: wrote a couple of songs that summer that we still

802
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: play now. And you know, it was like that fall

803
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: that he was like, I'm not doing the red Light thing.

804
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: Let's start a band, and I was like, Yeah, let's cool,

805
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 2: let's do it. And so I think it was that

806
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 2: that following, you know, the top of that next year,

807
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: I dropped out of school and we just started working

808
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: working on this band, and it was so that band

809
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: ended up being like it lasting for a year and

810
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: a half and it was extremely formative experience for all

811
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: of us. It laid the groundwork for what what the

812
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: band is now for sure, But it was also the

813
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: timing was kind of kind of wild in terms of

814
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: like universe karma type stuff. I got sick. I got

815
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: really sick kind of right when that band was starting.

816
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: Like I crashed like right before, right right around that time,

817
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: and that had a pretty big impact on I mean

818
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 2: everything for me, but the trajectory of that band for sure.

819
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: So would your parents say when you dropped out of Berkeley?

820
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 2: I was just my mom at that point, and I think,

821
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: you know, my dad passed away when it was my

822
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: first week of college. I was eighteen, So well.

823
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: Let's stop there for a second. Had he been sick

824
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: or what were the circumstances.

825
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when I was, yeah, my senior year of

826
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 2: high school, like two thousand and two thousand and nine,

827
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: my grandfather, who was my dad's dad, who I was

828
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: really really close with growing up, died. And then a

829
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 2: couple of months later, my uncle, who my mom's brother,

830
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: who I was really really close with who had lived

831
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: with us throughout when I was in high school. He

832
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 2: kind of he kind of moved in. He was in

833
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: a rough spot in his life and moved in with us,

834
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 2: and we became really really close. He died a couple

835
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: months after my grandfather, and then right after he died,

836
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: my dad got sick cancer and he was sick for

837
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 2: five or six months and then died in September of

838
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. And that was like, it was

839
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: like my uh, you know, first week of at Berkeley.

840
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 1: God, you cope with that? How do you cope with that? Today?

841
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: Still trying to figure it out? Honestly, it's uh. I

842
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: after the first two it was like my first brush

843
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 2: with death, and you know, I was, I was grieving,

844
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 2: and it was it was strange. It was, you know,

845
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: I was trying to learn how to make sense with

846
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: sense of you know that these people that I was

847
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: really close to in my you know, current consciousness in

848
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: my life were no longer here, you know, it was

849
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 2: it was it was just a very strange experience when

850
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 2: my dad died. I I mean when he got sick,

851
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: I was in denial. I was running from him. I

852
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: was party a lot. I was having a really great

853
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 2: time with my friends in school and everything and couldn't

854
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: really show up to that at all. I wasn't conscious

855
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 2: of it. But you know, in my you know, eighteen

856
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: year old invincible, There's no way my like my dad's

857
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: I'm invincible. My dad's definitely invincible. There's not no way

858
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: nothing you know, bad would happen to him. He'll figure

859
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: it out. He figures everything out. He just he was like,

860
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: he was a really really special guy, and he loved

861
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 2: me a lot, you know, kind of to a fault maybe,

862
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: and and had a really like I like I said before,

863
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: kind of had a pretty amazing ability to to see people,

864
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: talk to people, say the right thing, do the right thing,

865
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: and just had a lot of a lot of charisma

866
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were drawn to him and he, uh,

867
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: you know, he solved a lot of my problems throughout

868
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 2: the my my early life. You know, if something was

869
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: was I was, there was something I was struggling with,

870
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: you know, he would make it better, and it was

871
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 2: coming out of love and stuff. But when when he died,

872
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: it was I was not really prepared for it, and

873
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 2: I could just shut down. I like went into full

874
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 2: full shock. I don't really remember much, you know that

875
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 2: my memory from like my first year of college was

876
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 2: pretty shoddy, and uh yeah, I don't know. I just

877
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: you know, all of a sudden had like really really

878
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: bad anxiety issues. I was having panic attacks multiple times

879
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: per week and a couple after a couple of years

880
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: of that, my body just kind of shut down, you know,

881
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 2: for a long for many years, was trying to figure

882
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: out like what it was, what's the problem. It was

883
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 2: like mono, you know, Epstein bar lime disease, kind of

884
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: that kind of world. But no one, know, none of

885
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: the doctors I was seeing could really put their finger

886
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: on it. It was just, you know, one of those situations.

887
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: So I've been on been on that journey ever since, honestly.

888
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: So how did you get past that?

889
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: The physicals thing? Yeah, you know, I've I've become ah,

890
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: I haven't you know. There there's there were periods where

891
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 2: it got a little better. You know, it was really

892
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: rough for a while, and then there's there's a few

893
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 2: things that I discovered that kind of moved the needle

894
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: and got me to a place where I could go

895
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: back to school, and and uh, you know, there's a

896
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 2: wild where a while where I couldn't hold a job.

897
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 2: I was you know, I couldn't get through like a shift.

898
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: I just didn't have enough energy. But they, you know,

899
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 2: I some there's a couple of things I discovered that

900
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: that helped enough for me to go back to school

901
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: and start the band and you know, kind of be

902
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: getting by and then you know, it's there's it's it's

903
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 2: up and down. You know, things if stress gets too

904
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: high or you know, certain things change and things you

905
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: can kind of like heads south again. But I've it's

906
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: it's something that I've I've just never stopped trying to

907
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: figure out and and learn about.

908
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: So you say you discovered some things that helped you,

909
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 1: what were those.

910
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: At that time? It was I her Veda helped me

911
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: a lot. Actually, I was living in Colorado at the time.

912
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 2: It was like kind of right when right around the time,

913
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: right before maybe this band started. We started playing bars

914
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: and stuff in Connecticut, but I, you know, I'd moved

915
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: to Fort Collins, Colorado with the girls. So the band

916
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 2: I was talking about before that, I started with Matt.

917
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: You know that we went our separate ways. That that

918
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 2: band dissolved, and shortly after that I started seeing I

919
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: started seeing this girl and she was moving out to

920
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 2: Colorado to go study massage therapy, and I had nothing

921
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: going on. I didn't know what I was doing with

922
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 2: my life. I was kind of down and out, pretty sick,

923
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: had dropped out of school to do this band band

924
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: fell through, had put all my eggs in that basket,

925
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: and I really didn't know what to do with myself

926
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: after that point. And she was moving out there, and

927
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: I was like, is it cool if I come, you know?

928
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: So I went and moved out there, and it was

929
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 2: kind of the thing I needed. I needed to get

930
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: out of my home here and gain some new perspective

931
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 2: on on on everything, I guess. And while I was

932
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 2: out there, I was walking around Fort Collins one day

933
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: and there were these uh Hark Harry Krishna guys playing

934
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: playing music, chanting, singing with a little circle in in

935
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: the downtown area there. They were, you know, based in Denver.

936
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: They were they were like, they were young, young people

937
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: and most of them had went to you know, went

938
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 2: to jazz school coincidentally and and then got into got

939
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 2: into that thing. So they were they were like good musicians.

940
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: This guy, this guy was playing the murdanga a drum

941
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: and he was really good. And then there's another guy

942
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: playing the harmonium and had had this beautiful voice, and

943
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: so I kind of became friends with them. They they

944
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: came up before Collins once a week and I would

945
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 2: just go to the go to the gatherings and you know,

946
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 2: they you would sing, chant, meditate, eat, they'd bring food,

947
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 2: you food for free, and there was just discussions about

948
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: spirituality and different things like that, and and uh, it

949
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 2: was awesome, you know, we I got really into it,

950
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: just just that that experience hanging out with them and

951
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 2: learning all these wild stories about you know, Vedic like that,

952
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 2: all the Vedic stories. There's all these crazy characters and

953
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: monsters and dragons and and you know, the gods are

954
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, the whole thing was it was very colorful

955
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: and and uh it's kind of this illustrious world of

956
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 2: spirituality and and uh, you know they were they were

957
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: great people, and I'd met someone who was you know,

958
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 2: the kind of At one point told them I was

959
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: struggling with my health and stuff, and they they referred

960
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 2: me to someone in their community that was a aravadic

961
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: aveda practitioner, and I started learning about learning about that

962
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: that whole thing, and that was that was kind of

963
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 2: a starting point of of just getting some basis on

964
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: you know, what what my what type of body I have,

965
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: and what type of foods are going to you know,

966
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 2: be nourishing or not make me feel you know, really

967
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: sick kind of thing. So that was that was the

968
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: beginning of that journey.

969
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: I guess, So what does this therapist say about all this?

970
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: The therapist which which therapists?

971
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: Have you been to therapy about all this? You went

972
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: through all these crises?

973
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, man, I've done I've done a lot of strange,

974
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: strange things. There's different types of therapists. I talked to

975
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 2: some you know, the traditional talk therapy used in you know,

976
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: for the most part, I don't In those years, I

977
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: never really I wasn't consistent with with with anything like that.

978
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 2: And I think that the times that I did try

979
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: that it was maybe it just was it wasn't the

980
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: right fit, you know. But regardless, I I felt like, uh,

981
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: talk therapy wasn't going deep enough for me. I knew,

982
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't because the issue wasn't in my

983
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 2: in my mind, it was in my body, you know,

984
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: like the the the feeling or the experience of that

985
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: loss relative to what my life had been prior to that,

986
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: and my you know, like relationship to the world and

987
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: and and things like that, and just kind of just

988
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 2: not feeling safe in the world after all of that

989
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: was it was not something that was in my mind.

990
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: It was it was totally in my body, and the

991
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: talk therapy just wasn't like I in my mind. I

992
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: kind of got the whole thing I was. I was

993
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,479
Speaker 2: I was almost I was too much in my mind

994
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 2: and had just like the connection between that and my

995
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 2: life and my body. It just had been like kind

996
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 2: of severed. So that just wasn't any time I tried

997
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 2: something like that, it just it just wasn't working for me.

998
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: It wasn't moving the needle at all. So yeah, you know,

999
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: I once I exhausted all the all the conventional medicine

1000
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: types of things like you know, infectious disease doctors and

1001
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 2: all kinds of weird specialists and everyone. You know, there

1002
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: was like blood work stuff that was off and things

1003
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: that were you know, clearly an issue, but no one

1004
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 2: really knew why. You know. Then I started getting into

1005
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: the alternative stuff and exploring that way. It was you know,

1006
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 2: out of largely out of desperation. But then you know,

1007
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: on the note of the talk therapy thing, it was

1008
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 2: at the same time there was you know, born out

1009
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 2: of all that was kind of this pretty intense like

1010
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 2: needing to know, needing to try to find answers about

1011
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: what's going on here because that whole experience was so

1012
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 2: strange for me, and there was so many it's hard,

1013
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 2: it's you know, it sounds pretty pretty strange to say,

1014
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 2: but around that whole experience there was so much crazy

1015
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 2: synchronicity and you know, like I was, it's a yeah,

1016
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 2: really hard to explain, but so many experiences of there

1017
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 2: being wild signs and just things like that that just

1018
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 2: felt like there was no way that you know, it

1019
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: just took me completely out of my frame of what

1020
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 2: life was prior to that, and it kind of sent

1021
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 2: me on a path of pretty you know, ravenously seeking

1022
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 2: answers about what's going on here.

1023
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: Okay, the nature of being in a band, they are

1024
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: multiple people, things are planned in advance. Sometimes in excess

1025
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: of a yeared advance, planning goes down. Is there any

1026
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: voice in the back of your head, well, maybe my

1027
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: health won't be good enough to do this I might

1028
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: not be up to it. Is that a factor current day? Yeah?

1029
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 2: Current, No, at this point, I've I've it's it's not

1030
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 2: that extreme. You know, I've gained enough ground, so it's

1031
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: it's not like that. It's not that kind of thing.

1032
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 2: You know, I'm still seeking, I'm still looking for you know,

1033
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 2: looking for means to to move move the needle more

1034
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: and more. But you know, functionally, it's it's not I

1035
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 2: don't crash out like I used to as much. And uh,

1036
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's not the same kind of struggle

1037
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: that it was, but it is. I mean, it's for sure,

1038
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 2: very challenging lifestyle to to be in with that kind

1039
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:40,919
Speaker 2: of underlying. Yeah, I don't want to say I don't.

1040
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want to say weakness, but you know,

1041
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: it's it's with that that backdrop of a thing going on.

1042
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 2: It's it's definitely not an easy thing to continue healing

1043
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 2: while traveling around and you know, very high stress performance situations,

1044
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 2: all kinds of things like that. It's you know, it's

1045
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 2: it's tricky to navigate, but you know, throughout it's it's

1046
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: been many years of us you know, on the road. Now,

1047
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: I guess and Uh, in the earlier years, there is

1048
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 2: a lot more challenge to it. And I think as

1049
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 2: time has gone on and I've I've learned more things

1050
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: about things that can help and support on a physical level,

1051
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, it's gotten easier.

1052
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: Okay. Would one say that your physical issues are behind

1053
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: you or you just know how to manage them now?

1054
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe somewhere in between. You know, I certainly hope

1055
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 2: the worst, you know, I think the worst of it

1056
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: is behind me. But there's it's you know, I feel

1057
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: like the truth is out there. There's there's uh, there's

1058
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: still ways to that I could be moving the needle.

1059
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 2: It's really the simple stuff. It's, you know, but just

1060
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: just kind of there's there's so much that we don't

1061
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 2: learn learn about about, you know, how to what the

1062
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 2: things that actually support us in that way. And I've

1063
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: tried a lot of weird, weird alternative things, and you know,

1064
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: some of them were helpful, some of them I learned

1065
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: things from. But for the most part, it's really it's

1066
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: really like the simple stuff that I rely on the

1067
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: most and and have been the most impactful. But yeah,

1068
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: I mean I'm still as as much as I can.

1069
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: It's continuing to study and learn about things like that,

1070
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 2: things in that world, and it's it's such a it's

1071
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: a crazy space. I mean, there's like there's so much

1072
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 2: noise in that world, just like any any any space

1073
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 2: these days. But you know, it's just more and more

1074
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 2: so many different ideas about things, totally contradictory ideas about things.

1075
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: And so I'm just trying to you know, I try

1076
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 2: to keep an open mind and keep learning and and uh,

1077
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: you know, trying to get stronger all the time.

1078
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: So what's your relationship status today? I'm single and is

1079
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: there a significant other in the picture or not now?

1080
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: Not right now? Now?

1081
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: To what degree is that a result of the so

1082
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: called rock and roll lifestyle?

1083
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I'd say it's it's definitely a result

1084
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 2: of that. You know, I think it's a result of

1085
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 2: a number of things. You know, in part probably it

1086
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 2: feels like the the the health journey, and you know,

1087
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: it's it's not just the health thing. It's it's like,

1088
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 2: you know, the the degree to which I'm I'm able

1089
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: to be present with myself and with with everything. It's

1090
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: like that that feels like a factor. But it's also

1091
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: you know, the the like the the drive for for music,

1092
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: you know, the rock star lifestyle. It feels like more

1093
00:59:55,160 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: so a personal thing than that, more so just you know,

1094
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: being being my own biggest enemy, maybe from a from

1095
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 2: a lifestyle standpoint, and in terms of just like the

1096
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 2: hunger to to keep working and keep trying to move

1097
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 2: forward in both in any way possible, like the you know,

1098
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 2: creatively or or with like the well being thing, all

1099
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: of that. It's it's uh that it doesn't. It's a challenge.

1100
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 2: What's what's left? There's not much leftover. I guess that's

1101
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 2: what I'm getting at from that.

1102
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: Okay, you're driven in terms of relationships. On one level,

1103
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: you have this success that draws women to you. On

1104
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: another level, it draws women to you and they're attracted

1105
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: to something that might really not be you. What has

1106
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: your experience been.

1107
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: That's a tough one to to comment on.

1108
01:00:59,360 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: It.

1109
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 2: Does it they really? Uh, you know, it doesn't. It

1110
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like there's uh, you know that we're we're

1111
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: you know, we have to we're not we're not swimming

1112
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 2: in uh, I'm not swimming in that kind of attention.

1113
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like, you know, there's there's there's some

1114
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 2: of it but it's it's really not uh you know,

1115
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: we're not the Beatles. It's I haven't had a ton

1116
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: of that experience, like when we're on the road and stuff.

1117
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 2: It's I'm kind of in a bubble. I'm not I'm

1118
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,959
Speaker 2: not meeting a lot of people honestly in that way.

1119
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: And uh, yeah, it has it hasn't been a super

1120
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: present thing. When when the band first started doing really well,

1121
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 2: I I was I was in a relationship and I

1122
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 2: had fallen I had fallen for her really hard, and

1123
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: uh it was, uh, you know, it was kind of

1124
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 2: when that happens, at least in my experience, it's there's

1125
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 2: there's zero hesitation. You you kind of just like see

1126
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 2: red and it's just kind of like there's no it's

1127
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 2: tunnel vision kind of. And that was that was the situation.

1128
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: I started seeing her in twenty nineteen and right when

1129
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: the band really started, like you know, when the moment

1130
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: happened kind of, So it was it was a crazy

1131
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 2: that was a crazy turn of life. It was a

1132
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: it was a really really intense change of momentum from

1133
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: where where I was coming from what I was used to,

1134
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 2: you know, in both ways, like the band kind of

1135
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, starting to pop and

1136
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 2: then and then that that relationship on a personal level,

1137
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: it was it was just like this like roller coaster

1138
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 2: and it it kicked my ass, honestly, but yeah, that

1139
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: was that. I kind of thought that that was that

1140
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 2: was the one. And then as as the years went by,

1141
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: and you know, a lot happened throughout the pandemic and

1142
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, things going on her family and things I

1143
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 2: was going through. You know, my health kind of got

1144
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: really really rough again throughout that period from the stress

1145
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 2: and I don't know other factors that were introduced into

1146
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know what it was, but for

1147
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 2: whatever reason, I kind of crashed again pretty bad. In

1148
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, kind of when it hit came to

1149
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: a head, and yeah, we just you know the nature

1150
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 2: of our relationship changed a lot, and we were kind

1151
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 2: of coping with every everything that was happening. Her father

1152
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 2: had passed away, and so I was I was with

1153
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: her through that, and you know, the things she was

1154
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: she was trying to work through with her, you know,

1155
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 2: in her in the context of her family and her

1156
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: own life and things. We had this like very supportive friendship,

1157
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 2: but the romantic part of our relationship kind of just

1158
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 2: went away, and that took a toll over time and

1159
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 2: to the point, you know, eventually we just you know,

1160
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: decided to to go our separate ways. You know, we're

1161
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 2: don't touch and she's she's amazing. But yeah, just you know,

1162
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 2: it was it was a tough thing to navigate.

1163
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: Okay, what you're telling the story. The relationship ran its

1164
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 1: own course on traditional relationship issues. It wasn't a factor

1165
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: of your profession and dedication or was it.

1166
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 2: I don't think that was the That wasn't the reason

1167
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 2: for it. It was it was a factor. It poses

1168
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 2: a lot of challenge, for sure, but I don't I

1169
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 2: don't think that was you know, I can't point the

1170
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 2: finger at that, like that's why, you know.

1171
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So at this point in time, how many gigs

1172
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: a year does Gooset do?

1173
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: Uh? You know, probably around eighty It feels like more

1174
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 2: than that.

1175
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: How did you establish that number is more too much

1176
01:04:58,320 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: or you need more the other the rest of the

1177
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: time to do something? How do you come up with

1178
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: that number?

1179
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: I think it's something we're you know, constantly trying to

1180
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: trying to figure out the world we're in. It is

1181
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 2: that the customary thing is perpetual touring, which you know,

1182
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 2: I've kind of talked about this a good amount in

1183
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: different different things, but it's, you know, the observationally typical

1184
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: artists bands, you know, the typical thing is, you know,

1185
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 2: you you make a record, you put the record out,

1186
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 2: you tour for like a year, two years usually, and

1187
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 2: then you kind of go dark and go back in

1188
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 2: and work on the next thing and until you're ready

1189
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 2: to make the next statement and you have that time

1190
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 2: to to be you know, two go into like creative

1191
01:05:54,760 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 2: fertility mode, you know. And that's been something I've I've

1192
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: I've kind of wrestled with, I suppose because you know,

1193
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 2: some people are able to write on the road, and

1194
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: I'm not one of them. It's when there's a lot

1195
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 2: going on, there's a lot of momentum and all this

1196
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 2: stuff over like overstimulation. It kind of it quiets all

1197
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 2: the the the voices from which I you know, rely

1198
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 2: on or try to tap into for making songs and

1199
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 2: stuff like that. They're they're they're quiet, they're they're subtle,

1200
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 2: you know, and it takes a lot of work and

1201
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 2: a lot of patience and a lot of stillness too.

1202
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: To hear hear anything from from that from that place

1203
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: for me, So that's been something I've wrestled with and

1204
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: I think we're still kind of constantly talking about it

1205
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 2: and and trying to figure out what the right balance

1206
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 2: is to to keep keep the momentum and keep the

1207
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: ball moving forward and keep playing shows. And because it's

1208
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 2: it is this that is like a self propelling thing.

1209
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 2: It's it's and I love it. Like when we get

1210
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 2: off we get to the end of a tour and

1211
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 2: where you know, everything's feeling great and like the crew,

1212
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 2: like the vibe with every it's a big family, it's

1213
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 2: a big tribe, and you know, there's there's so much,

1214
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 2: so much amazing, so many amazing things that come with

1215
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 2: that and from that. So it's it's it's pretty frequent

1216
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 2: that at the end of a tour it's like, man,

1217
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to stop, Let's keep going. You know,

1218
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 2: it feels so great. But then at the same time,

1219
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 2: there's this other other side, this other voice that's like, dude,

1220
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 2: you need to stop for like three years. We need

1221
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 2: to just hang out in the woods and stare at

1222
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 2: trees and and be quiet and see what you know,

1223
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 2: just like be present in a way that I haven't

1224
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 2: in a very long time, you know. So you know,

1225
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: it's a balance thing.

1226
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: Well, I understand taking a break to recharge and to

1227
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: be inspired, but going back to the concept of an album,

1228
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: is a new release you talk about traditional cycle, but

1229
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: we no longer live in a traditional era. Is a

1230
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: new album necessary?

1231
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: It's a good question. It's a good question. Maybe not.

1232
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, I uh, but whether it is or not,

1233
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 2: I want to make them, you know, I just I

1234
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 2: love it. That's that's kind of you know, from from

1235
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 2: day one in the basement, that's like that was the

1236
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 2: thing that excited me the most, and telling telling stories

1237
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 2: in that format, So you know, yeah, it's it's it's

1238
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 2: definitely valid, especially in the in the world that we

1239
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 2: primarily exist in. It's you know, the question of its

1240
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 2: relevance is is very valid because we you know, for

1241
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: the most part, are it seems like most of the

1242
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 2: people who you know, uh, come to the shows and stuff,

1243
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 2: are are just interested in that. Primarily they just want

1244
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: to come to the shows and listen to the shows

1245
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 2: and and do that. But regardless, I guess I don't.

1246
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: I just love I love making albums, and I want

1247
01:08:58,120 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: to make a lot of.

1248
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: Them, hope. So if you have to split it, to

1249
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: what degree are you in percentage wise into live performance,

1250
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 1: into what degree are you into making records.

1251
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 2: Like my own? You know what? Am I right?

1252
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:13,919
Speaker 1: Your own inner tuning for decision.

1253
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 2: That's that's that's tough to put numbers too, you know,

1254
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: I from I from being really honest like I I

1255
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: I love making albums, probably more than playing shows. But

1256
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 2: that's that's uh. At the same time, when I think

1257
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 2: about what we're doing playing shows and our and our

1258
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 2: crew and moving, you know, and making improvements upon that

1259
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 2: and moving, you know, working on that, it's I I do.

1260
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 2: I love it just as much and and you know,

1261
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 2: on another hand, so it's really tough to say, but

1262
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 2: you know, I guess the cool thing is that both

1263
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 2: both can both can happen, and both will continue to happen,

1264
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: you know.

1265
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: Okay, making a record, there's writing the song as in

1266
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: recording the songs. A lot of people are very into

1267
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: the process of being in the studio or wherever you

1268
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,759
Speaker 1: do it, your bedroom, your basement, and getting it down

1269
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: with the facts and layering, et cetera. Where does the

1270
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: interest lie with you more in the actual writing of

1271
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 1: the songs or getting them down in recording form.

1272
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 2: They feel it feels kind of like a an equal

1273
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 2: They're separate parts of the process. You know, they exist

1274
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 2: in a different space for sure, but i'd say they

1275
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,679
Speaker 2: you know, I love that entire process as one thing

1276
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 2: so much, so they don't. You know, they are separate

1277
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: parts of the process. But you know, at the same time,

1278
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 2: it's it's it is one, it is one thing, one process.

1279
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 2: So I you know, I think I guess I love

1280
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 2: them both equally, and you know, there's there's sometimes they're

1281
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 2: not separate. Sometimes it's you know, sometimes the best if

1282
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 2: I'm stuck on something like from a just a writing phase,

1283
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 2: I'll just start, you know. Sometimes the way out of

1284
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 2: that is is working on a demo for it and

1285
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 2: just starting starting recording it and throwing ideas and decisions

1286
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 2: at it in that way. And then sometimes that can

1287
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 2: kind of like creak, you know, look at like get

1288
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 2: the wheels moving on on finishing an idea. Although I

1289
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: will say finishing things is not my strong point. I'm

1290
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 2: a lot better at starting ideas than finishing them.

1291
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: Okay, we live in an arrow now more than ever.

1292
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: One person can do it all themselves. To what degree

1293
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: is the songwriting and the recording collaborative with your band members.

1294
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 2: The songwriting varies. There's there's I guess, different buckets you

1295
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 2: could say of of how the how the writing gets done,

1296
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 2: uh for us, And you know, I think the philosophy

1297
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 2: of the band is like anyone anyone can write, anyone

1298
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 2: can bringing things to the table, and you know, everyone

1299
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:15,480
Speaker 2: has brought ideas and things to the table the recording,

1300
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 2: you know, finding parts and also you know, there's also

1301
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 2: a different thing between the difference between the writing and

1302
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 2: then maybe you know, someone will write a song, I'll

1303
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 2: write a song and bring it to the band and

1304
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 2: then it's still a whole process of arranging it and

1305
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 2: finding parts and that whole thing. And that's that's kind

1306
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 2: of tied in this, you know, the same same, same,

1307
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 2: but different in terms of recording, you know, finding the arrangement,

1308
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 2: finding and sometimes we you know, we'll play as you know,

1309
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 2: we go and to record a song that we've been

1310
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 2: playing live for a while and feel a desire to

1311
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 2: completely change it and we do or not, you know,

1312
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 2: or we like we're still excited by the way we

1313
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 2: play it and it still feels good. So we decide

1314
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 2: to try to just record it the way we play

1315
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 2: it live. It all depends on how we feel about it,

1316
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 2: and and you know, what we feel most ect I

1317
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 2: did buy, I guess you could say, But yeah, I

1318
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 2: mean the process of arranging it, inevitably, that's gotta be.

1319
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 2: That's it's always interactive, finding parts and finding you know,

1320
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 2: what feels most alive, because sometimes you can have an

1321
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 2: idea about how something should be, like what kind of

1322
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 2: groove it should have or what kind of feel, and

1323
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 2: you know what the arrangement should be, and then you

1324
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 2: bring it in the room and it doesn't feel as

1325
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: alive as you thought it would. So then you have

1326
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 2: to go and explore and see see what you know,

1327
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 2: what feels the most alive and what plays the most

1328
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 2: to the strengths of the people in the band.

1329
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: You know, so your band has changed members multiple times,

1330
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: you're a steady factor. Does that make you the de

1331
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: facto leader?

1332
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if I don't know if

1333
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 2: that would be the criteria for that, but I think

1334
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess it's. You know, it's it's kind

1335
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 2: of just the same thing as like the old days

1336
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 2: it was. It was kind of like, you know, no

1337
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 2: I wanted to start, wanted to be in a band,

1338
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 2: wanted to play in a band, wanted to write songs

1339
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 2: and play them with a band. It's and no one was.

1340
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 2: No one was like handing out that opportunity. So it

1341
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:18,639
Speaker 2: was kind of like, well, I'll just do it. I'll

1342
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 2: just start it, you know, and and and do it

1343
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 2: that way. And it's kind of I guess always just

1344
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: kind of been that way. So, you know, I think

1345
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 2: there's there's a lot of qualities and that I see

1346
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 2: other great leaders in in our world, you know, band

1347
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 2: leaders and stuff have that I don't feel like I'm

1348
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, on that level with the with

1349
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 2: in certain respects, and so you know, there's I think

1350
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 2: there's I don't know, it's tough to tough to compare,

1351
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 2: tough to tough to look at that type of thing.

1352
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, I think just due to the

1353
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 2: nature of of like, hey, here's this idea, let's do it,

1354
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 2: and that that being you know, applied many times over,

1355
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 2: I guess kind of has resulted in, uh, you know,

1356
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 2: how how how things roll in our camp?

1357
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:21,520
Speaker 1: Well, how jarring or inspiring is it to change band members.

1358
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 2: Depends I you know, like you said, it's we've it's

1359
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 2: happened a lot. You know, it was. It was not

1360
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 2: an easy process for us. You know, it took a

1361
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 2: lot of work and a lot of experimenting and a

1362
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 2: lot of you know, different iterations to try to find

1363
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 2: the right formula and and and uh you know the

1364
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 2: thing the things that will just work for us, and

1365
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's a yeah, it's been a serious process.

1366
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 2: There's there's a lot of uh, there's like this this air,

1367
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 2: this can this this conjecture that in in like the

1368
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 2: jam band world that you know, Goose was this uh,

1369
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 2: this like test tube thing, like an industry plant and

1370
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 2: that like you know, it was like a you know,

1371
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 2: the the boy band of the jam band world or

1372
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 2: something where like some some guy like put it all

1373
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 2: together and it's it's a it's a funny it's a

1374
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 2: funny thing too funny perception that has evolved out of

1375
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 2: that in the context of like what a crazy rocky

1376
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 2: road it was in reality and how imperfect and how

1377
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 2: much failure there was getting to this point in those

1378
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 2: early years, like yeah, we went we went through we

1379
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 2: tried a lot of different things, went through a bunch

1380
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 2: of different members. Some of them it was, you know,

1381
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 2: incredibly amicable, and it was just kind of like, hey,

1382
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 2: you know, I don't this is really work anymore, and

1383
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 2: they're like cool. I was thinking the same thing. We're

1384
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 2: like cool, let's be friends and and like go our

1385
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 2: separate ways. And then other times it was like, hey,

1386
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: this isn't working anymore, and it was you know, people

1387
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 2: were really hurt by it, and and it was it

1388
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 2: was a really difficult thing to navigate, and you know,

1389
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's both just it's just like relationships in

1390
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 2: any in any circumstance, you know.

1391
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: You reference, you know, conceptions of the world, the jam

1392
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:17,799
Speaker 1: band world calling you a boy band, etc. A. Isn't

1393
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:22,960
Speaker 1: that just jealousy? And where do you think that blowback

1394
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 1: is coming from? What is that about?

1395
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, there's there's some aspects of

1396
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 2: it I would say that are that are kind of obvious.

1397
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 2: There's there's kind of like it's just part of the

1398
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 2: nature of maybe the jam band scene is there's this

1399
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 2: kind of tribalism and you know, sports teams kind of

1400
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,599
Speaker 2: mentality where like, you know, my jam band is better

1401
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 2: than your jam band kind of thing. So you know,

1402
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 2: part of that's just just part of the scene has

1403
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: been for a long time, and you know, is what

1404
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 2: it is. It's nothing ultimately, you know, it's it's nothing

1405
01:17:56,360 --> 01:18:00,560
Speaker 2: that's worth losing sleepover. And then you know, sometimes I

1406
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,519
Speaker 2: did it does I'm like whoa, Like why? You know?

1407
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:05,639
Speaker 2: How did it? How did this? How did this happen?

1408
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 2: Like how did it get this crazy? You know? So,

1409
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 2: I you know, on some on some levels, there's there's

1410
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 2: some obvious stuff where there's there's answers to that, and

1411
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 2: then other times where I'm like, I don't know this

1412
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 2: whole things strange, you know, because when when we were

1413
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 2: coming up, when it was first happening, there wasn't you know,

1414
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 2: there wasn't much of that. But uh, and then you know,

1415
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 2: part of the thing is just like if something gets

1416
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 2: gets bigger, then it's no longer cool to think it's cool,

1417
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 2: you know.

1418
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: So how big can it get? If you're talking on

1419
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: the roots of the Jambn scene, the Grateful did maybe

1420
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: the Alman Brothers, that was a completely different era. Time

1421
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: has flown by when they started calling at the Jambn scene.

1422
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:52,640
Speaker 1: Blues Traveler had a hit on MTV Run Around, but

1423
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 1: since that time there's a scene. But even Fish one

1424
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 1: of the at this point the stall warts of the scene,

1425
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: they don't cross out of the jam band world. Ay,

1426
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 1: do you have a desire to cross and what would

1427
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 1: it take to reach more people?

1428
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:18,719
Speaker 2: Mm? Yeah, you know, I think Trey has talked about

1429
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 2: that when you know, when they were around, there was

1430
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 2: no quote unquote jam band scene, which you know I'm

1431
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:30,639
Speaker 2: saying that saying using that term. You know, it's yeah,

1432
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 2: it's it's a strange thing.

1433
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 1: You know.

1434
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 2: What I think is cool about that scene is, you know,

1435
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 2: it was maybe never more never more so the case

1436
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 2: than in the nineties. There was just like the hord

1437
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 2: Tor kind of kind of world. Everyone had their own

1438
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 2: sound and their own voice, and and it was a

1439
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 2: it was a very colorful like community you know of music.

1440
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 2: And you know that's that's still the case. There's there's

1441
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:00,600
Speaker 2: still so many cool things going and on now and

1442
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 2: create really really amazing bands and people with different sounds

1443
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 2: and different combinations of influences. You know. I guess to

1444
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: your question, I my philosophy about that is if you

1445
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 2: can have ideas about that kind of thing, and uh

1446
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I want to I want to be

1447
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 2: different in this way. I want to you know, not

1448
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 2: be this or be I want to be this. And

1449
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 2: it's it's that being heady about it like that rarely

1450
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 2: in my experience, results in anything worthwhile. It rarely works,

1451
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 2: you know. I think I've always had this feeling that like,

1452
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 2: you kind of have what you have, you can work

1453
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: on it, you can get better, you can you can

1454
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 2: you know, pull your thread as much as you want

1455
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 2: to get deeper and deeper into your process, which is

1456
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 2: what everyone should do. It's the you know, that's the

1457
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 2: best thing you can do. But at the same time,

1458
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 2: it's your you. You have to honor and you have

1459
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 2: to be real about, like what you are really drawn to,

1460
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 2: what you really get off on, and what you're really

1461
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:09,639
Speaker 2: inspired by. In my case that you know, I kind

1462
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 2: of what we're talking about before, in high school and stuff.

1463
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 2: I was, you know, fully immersed in that you know,

1464
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 2: quote unquote jampan world, which I admittedly don't I don't

1465
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:24,719
Speaker 2: think that's the uh the most you know, illustrious term,

1466
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 2: but you know whatever, the improvisational rock world, the jam

1467
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 2: band world, whatever you want to call it. I was.

1468
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 2: I loved it. I was totally immersed in it. Where

1469
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 2: I grew up, that was what everyone was doing. Everyone

1470
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 2: was going to the shows. And you know, even even

1471
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 2: like the really cool kids, the cool popular kids were

1472
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 2: going to those shows. Everyone. It was just it was

1473
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:44,920
Speaker 2: a thing. And so that was where I was coming from,

1474
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 2: and I was. I loved it. I was. I was

1475
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:50,519
Speaker 2: completely taken with it. And then you know, as I

1476
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 2: got out of college and those those years, and I

1477
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 2: was kind of entered into a very different I wasn't

1478
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: partying at all. I was pretty sick. It was kind

1479
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 2: of in a very different emotional place. I started getting

1480
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 2: into really different music, and a lot more modern music,

1481
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 2: because I prior to that point I really wasn't in

1482
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 2: tune at all with with like the current indie world

1483
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 2: or even you know, pop or anything like that. I

1484
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 2: had no idea. I was listening to more Otis Redding

1485
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 2: and West Montgomery and Nina Simone. Had no idea about

1486
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 2: Fleet Foxes or Bony Bear, but those those bands. When

1487
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 2: I kind of discovered that music, it like took over

1488
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 2: my my situation. I was so inspired and so enamored

1489
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 2: with that music. It started with the Fleet Foxes. I

1490
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 2: was like that I was just fully immersed in that

1491
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: world for for years and my throughout my twenties. It

1492
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 2: was you know, those first two records and that that

1493
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 2: EP the sunshint Ep. It was like those It was

1494
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: such an immersive thing, which I that's what I you know,

1495
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 2: I love that so much. It was it was like

1496
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 2: this timeless yet kind of like this medieval medieval world

1497
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 2: and the artwork and their aesthetic and and the music,

1498
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,559
Speaker 2: it all, it all worked so well together, and it

1499
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,680
Speaker 2: all created such a specific feeling and world that I

1500
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: just like didn't want to leave. And that led to,

1501
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,719
Speaker 2: you know, discovering other other things. So at that point

1502
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 2: in my life that that type of music and and

1503
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 2: different artists doing things in real time now became became

1504
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 2: like my main point of inspiration and in a lot

1505
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:40,880
Speaker 2: of ways, and I think you know that that to

1506
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 2: me kind of became the somewhat of a novel idea.

1507
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to hear I wanted to hear

1508
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 2: Fleet Foxes, you know, go on a really cool twenty

1509
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 2: minute improvisation after they're really cool songs, you know, and uh,

1510
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 2: that didn't really exist to my awareness, So that kind

1511
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 2: of became this this idea of like, you know, well,

1512
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 2: I'm I'm very taken and drawn to these these these

1513
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 2: this world and you know, other other approaches to songwriting

1514
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,640
Speaker 2: and production and stuff like that, and uh, you know,

1515
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 2: maybe marrying that with with my roots and in the

1516
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: improvisational rock world and jazz and stuff like that. It,

1517
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 2: you know, it it felt like a h there was

1518
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 2: there were things to threads to pull, there things to

1519
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 2: explore there.

1520
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:41,719
Speaker 1: You know, I've never met an artist who didn't want

1521
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: to reach more people, have a larger audience. So you

1522
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: talk about your personal musical journey by the same token,

1523
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: you want more people to listen to music, right.

1524
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like you said, I don't, I don't you

1525
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 2: know who doesn't want that? I mean there there's there's

1526
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 2: the part I think a lot of probably a lot

1527
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 2: of artists I maybe maybe have a similar thing of

1528
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 2: of there's there's some kind of point of wrestling with

1529
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:13,320
Speaker 2: that where you know everyone wants that because I guess

1530
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 2: it's just a natural thing to want. But then you know,

1531
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 2: as the more it happens, the more you do it,

1532
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 2: the more you realize like the things that come with

1533
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 2: it and how those things can be struggle. And you know,

1534
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 2: for me, I still I still believe in that I

1535
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 2: feel like though, I feel like it's worthwhile, you know,

1536
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:38,200
Speaker 2: trying to get trying to get bigger and working working

1537
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 2: to you know, to reach more people there. You know,

1538
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 2: it's it's easy. You can easily view that maybe the

1539
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 2: impulse is to view that as as a self serving

1540
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 2: kind of endeavor, which I'm sure you know, inevitably on

1541
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 2: a lot of levels it is. But at the same time,

1542
01:25:56,200 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 2: there's a I've always seen something beautifull about it, and

1543
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 2: you know, have seen, like I know, the way that

1544
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 2: I know the impact that bands who have been very

1545
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 2: big and have done big, amazing things have had on me,

1546
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 2: and how inspiring that's been to me. And I've seen

1547
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 2: how it's the space that's occupied in other people's lives

1548
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 2: and how you know, it has the ability to help

1549
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 2: people get through, you know, things that they're experiencing and

1550
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 2: things that they're struggling with and provide some kind of

1551
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: light in their lives. And you know, so I think

1552
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 2: that that you know, became that became a mission for

1553
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 2: me at a certain point after after the things I

1554
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 2: had experienced and stuff. It kind of amplified that, it

1555
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:51,080
Speaker 2: reframed and amplified that as you know, going from being

1556
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 2: stone in high school watching Fish DVDs being like that

1557
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 2: looks awesome. I definitely want to do that too, you know,

1558
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 2: really kind of getting to this place where I was

1559
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 2: really struggling with my existence and trying to make sense

1560
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 2: out of that, and you know, all the things that

1561
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 2: had happened and the things I had lost and the life,

1562
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 2: the life, that lifestyle and experiences that I had lost.

1563
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:22,880
Speaker 1: In Let me put it this way. At this point,

1564
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 1: whatever label we use, jam band, improvisational rock, it's a ghetto.

1565
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 1: And if you're in it, you know who all the

1566
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: acts are. Your act is a relatively new act that

1567
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:42,639
Speaker 1: has been very successful. Okay, that is not the case

1568
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: with most acts. There's not a plethora of new acts

1569
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 1: bubbling up. So Goose came along was very successful. Okay,

1570
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: you could do what you're doing. I'm not talking in

1571
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 1: terms of the music itself. I'm talking about a career arc.

1572
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:02,599
Speaker 1: You could do what you're doing, and thirty years from

1573
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,719
Speaker 1: now you could be Fish. You could do what you're doing.

1574
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:09,479
Speaker 1: Thirty years from now you can be Fleet Foxes. Those

1575
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 1: are ultimately cult acts. They have an audience that keeps

1576
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: them alive. Now, in reality, everybody's a cult act today,

1577
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 1: even Taylor's with people are paying attention where they're not. Okay,

1578
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: But as I say, it's not rocket science. You look

1579
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: at your new album. These songs are lengthy, and you

1580
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:36,759
Speaker 1: could say, theoretically, you're an educated person literally musically educated,

1581
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 1: could say, well, you know I could do a verse

1582
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:46,680
Speaker 1: chorus bridge thing, throwing a solo, and you know that

1583
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 1: might have a chance of moving the needle further. What

1584
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: do you think about that?

1585
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 2: So you're asking if if we're thinking about things those

1586
01:28:59,640 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 2: in those.

1587
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm being practical. Where you are right now is a

1588
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: very good spot. But all of your predecessors that's as

1589
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 1: far as they've gotten. Okay, you have other people in

1590
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: that world we're using shorthand Jamban, let's just use that

1591
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: who are jealous of your success. But the vast majority

1592
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 1: of the public has no idea who you are, or

1593
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,640
Speaker 1: if they know who you are, wouldn't be able to

1594
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:36,439
Speaker 1: identify your music. So if you look at history, that's

1595
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 1: the way it's going to be going forward. The difference

1596
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 1: with your act is you are very successful in a

1597
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 1: short period of time, which has not happened in this

1598
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:50,720
Speaker 1: world for a while. So the question arises is there

1599
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 1: a broader audience for your music. Secondly, is there a

1600
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 1: tweak such that it can be made? Listen, if we

1601
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 1: used the progenitor here, the Grateful Dead, Okay, Anthem of

1602
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: the Sun, those records, those were long improvisational records for

1603
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: hardcore fans, only growing slowly. You get The Working Man's Dead,

1604
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,120
Speaker 1: American Beauty Quanti. It is a little bit of a

1605
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 1: change in style, but a lot of people could understand it,

1606
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:26,920
Speaker 1: and the people who understood it became fans and carried

1607
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 1: through many years after. You know, they ultimately were on

1608
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: Arista and they had an MTV hit whatever. They knew

1609
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 1: what the game was, and they made certain choices that

1610
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:42,559
Speaker 1: ultimately didn't compromise who they were, but it brought them

1611
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: to a larger audience. They were not the only band

1612
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 1: in that sphere. They're just the band that's most remembered,

1613
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 1: that has the largest audience. Okay, you're a smart guy.

1614
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 1: In the back of your mind, do you think about that? Hey,

1615
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:00,679
Speaker 1: you know, I'm here and it's pretty good to be here,

1616
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 1: but could I be somewhere that would even be better?

1617
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:10,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you put it like that, definitely, I don't know.

1618
01:31:10,560 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 2: I don't think that in our case, I don't think

1619
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 2: it equates to like, hey, let's write some you know, Uh,

1620
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:21,600
Speaker 2: there's I don't. I don't there's not a there's not

1621
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 2: a moment of a contrived desire to write pop songs,

1622
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 2: you know. I I think there's there's a lot of

1623
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 2: pop music that excites me. Actually, there's you know, there's

1624
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 2: certain yeah, there's certain pop music that I think is

1625
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:41,920
Speaker 2: awesome and and production and you know, as much as

1626
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 2: I love a twenty minute jam, I there's sometimes I

1627
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:48,760
Speaker 2: love there's like three minute songs that are you know,

1628
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 2: crushing on the radio that I think are amazing. So

1629
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,479
Speaker 2: part of that is it's a genuine you know, I

1630
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 2: part of me wants to make more music like that.

1631
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 2: Another part of me wants to get deeper and deeper

1632
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 2: into the improvisational thing. So it's uh, you know, yeah,

1633
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think. Uh, there's The thing I

1634
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 2: want to do mostly is pull on new threads and

1635
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 2: try to become more more of what we can be,

1636
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 2: you know, like like how how much can we be?

1637
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 2: You know? And when it comes to the to the

1638
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 2: business of it and the the thing I know, I

1639
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 2: never really you know, all of all the people that

1640
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 2: I look up to have have paved their own path

1641
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 2: and created their own worlds. And to me that I

1642
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 2: think that's always seemed like the best case scenario is

1643
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 2: just being existing in your own world pulling people in

1644
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 2: that weren't aren't always you know, not like that. Aren't

1645
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 2: just fish fans or just you know, other fans of

1646
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 2: other things. That's that really excites me. You know the thing,

1647
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 2: you know, the notion of someone hearing a song of

1648
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 2: ours that has no bearing, no awareness, no experience with

1649
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 2: improvisational music, there jam, the jam band scene, any anything

1650
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 2: like that, and getting into it, coming to a show,

1651
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 2: probably being pretty surprised with you know, there being music

1652
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 2: happening for twenty minutes on end with no vocals or

1653
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:21,479
Speaker 2: anything like that. And you know, the notion of some

1654
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:25,559
Speaker 2: of those people that person discovering that they like that

1655
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:29,960
Speaker 2: approach to music and are are you know, are taken

1656
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:33,679
Speaker 2: by that, by the journey of that. That's really exciting

1657
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:37,280
Speaker 2: to me. And I think, and I hope that's already happening.

1658
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:41,719
Speaker 2: You know, obviously we've we've come up in in that scene,

1659
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: in that world and for the most part, and you know,

1660
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 2: some it's it's tough to tell. There's no way to know,

1661
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 2: but it feels like it's somewhat split. You know. Some

1662
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:55,000
Speaker 2: of those some of those people like what we're doing.

1663
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 2: Some of them, you know, pretty passionately don't like it seemingly,

1664
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,600
Speaker 2: which you know, there's nothing we can do about that,

1665
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 2: but just keep trying to get better. But you know,

1666
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think that's a really exciting thing having, uh,

1667
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 2: having people that exist that listen to completely different types

1668
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 2: of music somehow stumble into our world and if they

1669
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 2: like it and want to learn more about it, and

1670
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:22,719
Speaker 2: that's I think that's a really cool thing and that's

1671
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:26,680
Speaker 2: something worth striving for. It in my mind, is you know,

1672
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:30,280
Speaker 2: opening up, opening up more more past, and sometimes that

1673
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,599
Speaker 2: leads people to other improvisational music that other jam bands

1674
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 2: and uh, and I think that's a really cool thing.

1675
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:36,439
Speaker 2: You know.

1676
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 1: So let's go back a chapter. Your father dies. You

1677
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 1: say your mother didn't work outside the house after the

1678
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:49,000
Speaker 1: children were there. To what degree did that affect the

1679
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:50,760
Speaker 1: family and you financially?

1680
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:58,600
Speaker 2: My dad worked really hard. I mean he was you know,

1681
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,799
Speaker 2: he came from lower middle class US and in Long Island,

1682
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 2: didn't didn't come for much of anything, and uh, worked

1683
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:09,480
Speaker 2: worked really hard, worked his way up in the insurance

1684
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:15,479
Speaker 2: insurance companies in Connecticut, and you know it was a

1685
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:17,240
Speaker 2: was a like I was, like I was saying, kind

1686
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,400
Speaker 2: of a charismatic guy. People were drawn to him. People

1687
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 2: really liked him, and I think that really helped him

1688
01:35:22,040 --> 01:35:25,160
Speaker 2: in his career and you know, he he ended up

1689
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:28,320
Speaker 2: doing doing well. We weren't like, we weren't loaded, but

1690
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 2: we were comfortable, and you know, there was there are

1691
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:34,080
Speaker 2: certain points in my life where it seemed like I

1692
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 2: think things changed for my parents financially, like when when

1693
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 2: they first when they first got a house in Wilton

1694
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:44,439
Speaker 2: when I was born, and they didn't pay much for

1695
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 2: it at all. It was it was a you know,

1696
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:49,639
Speaker 2: the town I think was still there was still pretty rural,

1697
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 2: kind of lower income, uh options for for for people

1698
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:58,880
Speaker 2: at that time there. And yeah, maybe I was in

1699
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:01,599
Speaker 2: middle school or something. I think he got a promotion

1700
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 2: or something like that. And you know that I was

1701
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:08,639
Speaker 2: too young to like, I wasn't really aware of things

1702
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:11,080
Speaker 2: on that level at that point. But in retrospect, is

1703
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 2: it is you know, we we we started going on

1704
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 2: vacations and going you know, doing a trip to a

1705
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 2: to a hotel in Mexico for a week, you know,

1706
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 2: or they did. They did some work on the house

1707
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:24,640
Speaker 2: that you know, there was there's some things that I

1708
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 2: think there are points where he started doing better and

1709
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 2: making more money. And by the time he died, I

1710
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:34,360
Speaker 2: think my family, my mom was comfortable enough so that

1711
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 2: we were able to she like, she's she's able, she's

1712
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 2: she's able to live off of off of that, and

1713
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 2: was able to, you know, support me enough in the

1714
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 2: ways you know that that I needed. I lived, you know,

1715
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:53,679
Speaker 2: through a lot throughout my twenties when I wasn't doing

1716
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,800
Speaker 2: well and working on music and striving and trying to

1717
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:58,599
Speaker 2: make something of it. I was living in her, living

1718
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 2: with her, you know. So yeah, we were it was

1719
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 2: it was comfortable enough. We weren't we weren't rolling in it,

1720
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 2: but we were. It was comfortable.

1721
01:37:08,040 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: So how did you get back from Colorado to the

1722
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: East Coast.

1723
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:17,680
Speaker 2: When I was out there? You know, it wasn't. I

1724
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 2: wasn't out there for too long before I started getting

1725
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:24,760
Speaker 2: a fire under my ass again, and you know, I

1726
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 2: wanted to start projects. There were a couple opportunities back

1727
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 2: here that were popping up, and I started to just

1728
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:36,639
Speaker 2: the school thing felt like a big, big unfinished business,

1729
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 2: big open end, and uh so, I, you know, I

1730
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 2: wanted to I wanted to go back, and it felt

1731
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:45,240
Speaker 2: like the right thing to go finish what I what

1732
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 2: I started there. And uh yeah, things, you know, different

1733
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:54,559
Speaker 2: things were popping up back east, not big opportunities, but enough.

1734
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:56,519
Speaker 2: It was the only I did have no opportunities then,

1735
01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 2: so it was the only thing. So after being out

1736
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:02,000
Speaker 2: there there for like six months or something like that,

1737
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,920
Speaker 2: things started popping up. So I started flying home for

1738
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 2: a weekend here and there to go do a gig

1739
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,720
Speaker 2: or or do an opportunity and one of them. You know.

1740
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,000
Speaker 2: During that time, it started playing with Trevor again and

1741
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 2: started you know, putting together what was the earliest formations

1742
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 2: of this of this band. But it actually wasn't the

1743
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:25,760
Speaker 2: main thing I was focusing on at that point. But

1744
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 2: as time went on, it it just it became it

1745
01:38:29,479 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 2: became the main thing.

1746
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:33,839
Speaker 1: So you went back to Berkeley. Did you finish at Berkeley?

1747
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 1: Did you graduate?

1748
01:38:35,439 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 2: I did?

1749
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, in the hindsight, you're growing up when you

1750
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:44,200
Speaker 1: go to Berkeley. There's a lot of changes there. But

1751
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 1: was Berkeley advantageous for your musical career.

1752
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:58,680
Speaker 2: Uh, yes, yes, And I mean for sure in the

1753
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:01,760
Speaker 2: way of learning, you know, I learned. I learned things there.

1754
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:04,720
Speaker 2: I studied I was exposed to. You know. That was

1755
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 2: that was the more extreme, you know, like the kind

1756
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:12,600
Speaker 2: of the full uh the full capacity of that experience

1757
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:14,880
Speaker 2: of that I you know, talked about during the five

1758
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:19,599
Speaker 2: week of being lost in a sea of people way

1759
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:23,240
Speaker 2: way more talented than me and and uh, you know,

1760
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:26,559
Speaker 2: way better at being competitive at music than me, you know.

1761
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 2: So uh it was, you know, I I did. I

1762
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:40,120
Speaker 2: did lose myself there kind of both times. The first

1763
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 2: time I went it was I was coming out of

1764
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:44,640
Speaker 2: the experience of all that loss, So it was it's

1765
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 2: kind of it's a pretty loaded thing. I can't really

1766
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 2: be objective about that at all because I was just

1767
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:52,479
Speaker 2: like I was fried. I was in total shock and

1768
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 2: had no idea of what like where I was at

1769
01:39:56,360 --> 01:39:59,200
Speaker 2: and how how you know, how smoked I had gotten

1770
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 2: by all that. But when I went back, when I

1771
01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:05,080
Speaker 2: when I went back prior to that, I had I

1772
01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:08,880
Speaker 2: had really found after the that previous band that I

1773
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:13,519
Speaker 2: started with Matt, after that band broke up, I really

1774
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:16,200
Speaker 2: started writing again because when I, you know, when I

1775
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 2: when I moved out to Colorado, I was at I

1776
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:20,439
Speaker 2: was working at a taco place, and I was at

1777
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:24,280
Speaker 2: that point where I was really thinking about, you know,

1778
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:30,679
Speaker 2: can I stop pursuing music? Can I stop thinking about

1779
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 2: this as like the thing that I need to do.

1780
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,760
Speaker 2: That was the closest I've ever come to thinking about

1781
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 2: it in that way, because I was always just naive

1782
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:39,600
Speaker 2: about it. I was like, yeah, there's this is what

1783
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 2: I'm doing. There's no there's no other way for me.

1784
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:46,519
Speaker 2: But that was the closest I had come to that.

1785
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:49,320
Speaker 2: I was working at this taco place and thinking about,

1786
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 2: you know, about giving up, I guess, and you know,

1787
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:55,400
Speaker 2: giving up didn't look like I was never going to

1788
01:40:55,439 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 2: stop playing and working on you know, writing and things

1789
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:03,360
Speaker 2: like that. But you know, the notion of not thinking

1790
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:08,439
Speaker 2: about it as the career, you know, That's that was

1791
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 2: where I was at during that time. And I think

1792
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:16,559
Speaker 2: that that being at that point where I was no

1793
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,679
Speaker 2: longer trying to force something, I was no longer trying

1794
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:23,720
Speaker 2: to make something out of, you know, I was I

1795
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 2: was kind of like at the end of my rope,

1796
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:27,040
Speaker 2: so to speak. You know, I was I was lost,

1797
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 2: and and UH had had nothing going for me. And

1798
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 2: that was when I started actually writing again because it

1799
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:36,200
Speaker 2: was it was for me, you know, it was it was,

1800
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 2: it was honest, and and it was because I just

1801
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 2: had to. It was like when you're left with nothing,

1802
01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, you get you start getting

1803
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 2: the real stuff, you know, And that was what happened

1804
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:50,760
Speaker 2: for me. So, you know, for for a year or two,

1805
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:54,719
Speaker 2: maybe a little more, I was writing a lot and

1806
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:57,400
Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff that was you know, the

1807
01:41:57,400 --> 01:42:01,240
Speaker 2: formation or the foundation for this band was written during

1808
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:04,360
Speaker 2: that time, and other things that I have never really

1809
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:08,760
Speaker 2: recorded or put out there. So there was there was

1810
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:11,560
Speaker 2: like that, and that thread was continuing to grow. It

1811
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:13,400
Speaker 2: was growing and growing. There was a lot of unfinished

1812
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 2: ideas from that from that time that I still have

1813
01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:20,160
Speaker 2: like strong feelings about and still intend to finish someday.

1814
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:24,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, when I went back to Berkeley, that that

1815
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:28,680
Speaker 2: that well dried up pretty quickly. You know. When I

1816
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 2: first started, there was so many ideas and so many

1817
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:34,759
Speaker 2: things I was working on, and then within six months

1818
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:38,200
Speaker 2: to a year, that flow had kind of stopped, and

1819
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 2: I was I was pretty deep in the course load.

1820
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:43,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it was also we uh, we were starting

1821
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:45,840
Speaker 2: this band. We recorded the first record, and I was,

1822
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:47,840
Speaker 2: I was working on that a lot. We went up

1823
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 2: and did basics. We rented out a a cabin in

1824
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 2: New Hampshire and just brought all our own gear, and

1825
01:42:57,479 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 2: someone an engineer at a Look studio came and recorded with

1826
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:05,640
Speaker 2: us and and and helped produce, and you know, we

1827
01:43:05,680 --> 01:43:07,720
Speaker 2: had we had basics and kind of sat on those

1828
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 2: for a while. And then, uh, during that time when

1829
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:13,000
Speaker 2: I was in school, I was, I was, I didn't

1830
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 2: even have a place up in Boston, so I was driving.

1831
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 2: I was like commuting to Boston for a minute to

1832
01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 2: go to classes from Connecticut, which was crazy, and so

1833
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 2: I was I was kind of on the weekends working

1834
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:28,160
Speaker 2: to working on overdubs, working on you know, editing and

1835
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:30,880
Speaker 2: you know doing d I Y finishing this record and

1836
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:36,320
Speaker 2: then uh, you know midweek was driving to Boston and uh,

1837
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:39,240
Speaker 2: crashing on people's couches. But if I had like, you know,

1838
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 2: three days of classes in a row, and you know,

1839
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:44,679
Speaker 2: it was just too much to drive that many hours

1840
01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:48,479
Speaker 2: back and forth every day. So that was. Yeah, it

1841
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:50,040
Speaker 2: was kind of kind of a crazy time, and the

1842
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 2: creative flow got got pretty burnt up during then, and

1843
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 2: it was the struggle to get it back.

1844
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:09,519
Speaker 1: Okay, Berkeley is a music college. There are teachers. To

1845
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:14,840
Speaker 1: what degree do they squeeze the creativity out of you?

1846
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:15,679
Speaker 2: Listen?

1847
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:19,639
Speaker 1: I had this in my own college experience. They have rules,

1848
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 1: they have the way you want to do it, which

1849
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 1: is actually forcing you into a traw through a tunnel

1850
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 1: that is against you. To what degree do you say, no,

1851
01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:31,200
Speaker 1: that's not for me. I need to explore my own way,

1852
01:44:31,240 --> 01:44:32,960
Speaker 1: which is not how they want me to do it.

1853
01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 2: I think in my experience there was a there was

1854
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 2: kind of a bit of a bunch of different things.

1855
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:42,599
Speaker 2: Some people really cared, and some people really nurtured, and

1856
01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:49,800
Speaker 2: some people really engaged. Some people were just uh, you know,

1857
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 2: I think you know, some people were incredible musicians that

1858
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 2: you know, maybe their their career didn't go the way

1859
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 2: they wanted it to, and they it's a really it's

1860
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:01,840
Speaker 2: a really great teaching gig. But they weren't they're not

1861
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:05,720
Speaker 2: like passionate about teaching a little bit of that thing

1862
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 2: of like I'm just really good at this, Like I this,

1863
01:45:09,200 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 2: you know, I worked hard and I'm I'm amazing at

1864
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:14,559
Speaker 2: what I do and if you can't do it, then

1865
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 2: like I don't know that kind of just sucks for you.

1866
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:20,519
Speaker 2: And you know some people who were doing it because

1867
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:23,400
Speaker 2: it was it was a good job, and then you

1868
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:26,120
Speaker 2: know some people who were engaged and passionate about it,

1869
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:31,320
Speaker 2: but more entrenched in some rule set. You know. I

1870
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:35,040
Speaker 2: had that probably that that experienced most. I studied jazz

1871
01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:39,800
Speaker 2: performance and classical composition and studying like, I wanted to

1872
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:44,560
Speaker 2: learn counterpoint. I wanted to learn what, you know, the wheels,

1873
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:47,080
Speaker 2: like what what made the wheels turn in classical music

1874
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:50,320
Speaker 2: on some levels, which is obviously an incredibly deep rabbit

1875
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:53,800
Speaker 2: hole and it's like a completely different world. But I

1876
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:56,679
Speaker 2: started getting into that, and uh, you know that that's

1877
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:59,640
Speaker 2: where the rule set is really in place. You know,

1878
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:04,639
Speaker 2: that's there's there's like that that's like that's that's there's

1879
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,960
Speaker 2: a lot of rules there. And I wasn't. I like,

1880
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:10,719
Speaker 2: got really bad grades in some of those classes because

1881
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,720
Speaker 2: I was, you know, breaking the rules. And I was like,

1882
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:15,880
Speaker 2: but like, this is you know, this is an idea,

1883
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 2: this is this is my that is the four part

1884
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:20,080
Speaker 2: harmony thing that I wrote. He's like, yeah, but it's

1885
01:46:20,120 --> 01:46:22,400
Speaker 2: just wrong, It's all right, And he was probably right

1886
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 2: on some on some degree. You know, it wasn't Maybe

1887
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 2: it wasn't that great, but you know, so there there's

1888
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:29,639
Speaker 2: a bit of that. But you know they're the thing.

1889
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 2: The thing about all that I think the best the

1890
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:37,960
Speaker 2: best musicians, Well this you can't. You can't say that

1891
01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 2: because there's you know, West, here's West Montgomery who didn't,

1892
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 2: as I understand it, didn't know anything about music theory

1893
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:44,920
Speaker 2: or anything like that. And was you know, wrote the

1894
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:48,160
Speaker 2: book on a whole a whole way of approach to

1895
01:46:48,200 --> 01:46:52,759
Speaker 2: playing there. So you can't make these generalizations. But seemingly

1896
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 2: a lot of people, you know that. The thing is,

1897
01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:58,960
Speaker 2: like you you have to learn the rules so that

1898
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 2: you break them. You know, when when you break them,

1899
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:06,439
Speaker 2: you you ah have a much deeper understanding of why

1900
01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:11,760
Speaker 2: you're breaking them, you know. So yeah, no, one way.

1901
01:47:12,120 --> 01:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about questioning your future in music in Colorado?

1902
01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 1: How many times have you contemplated giving up the music gig?

1903
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,400
Speaker 1: And when was the last time you did it.

1904
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:30,840
Speaker 2: In a real way? That kind of feels like the

1905
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:35,720
Speaker 2: only time that that was the closest I've gotten to it.

1906
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 2: And even then it wasn't It wasn't that, you know,

1907
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:42,880
Speaker 2: I didn't get too far down. It was like I

1908
01:47:42,920 --> 01:47:45,120
Speaker 2: was like scratching at the idea of like, am I

1909
01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:47,360
Speaker 2: gonna hang this up? This is crazy? You know, there's

1910
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 2: got nothing going on. I'm down and out. I feel

1911
01:47:49,400 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 2: like I feel like crap every day, Like I don't know,

1912
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:57,799
Speaker 2: I don't know. But you know, since then, it really

1913
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:03,320
Speaker 2: I was. I was too stubborn to go there for

1914
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 2: the most part.

1915
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:08,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so you finish up at Berkeley, you have a

1916
01:48:08,439 --> 01:48:12,200
Speaker 1: band that is the beginnings of Goose. What is the

1917
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:16,960
Speaker 1: first point of positive reinforcement? Will you say, wait a second,

1918
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:20,599
Speaker 1: you know we're getting a good reaction. This might be something.

1919
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:29,200
Speaker 2: It definitely wasn't for a while. I graduated. I finished

1920
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:32,600
Speaker 2: up school in twenty sixteen, and then in twenty seventeen

1921
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 2: was when we got a booking agent and started just

1922
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:38,280
Speaker 2: you know that that helped because you know, sometimes bands

1923
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:40,920
Speaker 2: early in their time, someone in the band is like

1924
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:44,360
Speaker 2: has a knack for making connections like that and booking gigs,

1925
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 2: and none of us had that. You know, it was

1926
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:50,439
Speaker 2: it was hard. We played bars locally here and stuff,

1927
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:52,439
Speaker 2: but like booking gigs and starting to build a little

1928
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:55,680
Speaker 2: thing like that, we just weren't get at it. So

1929
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:57,800
Speaker 2: when we got a booking agent. We were like, you know,

1930
01:48:57,920 --> 01:49:01,479
Speaker 2: let's go hit, let's hit the wheels, and and uh,

1931
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 2: just get us out there. We want to play, we

1932
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:04,720
Speaker 2: want to play a million gigs, we want to tour.

1933
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:08,280
Speaker 2: And he was, you know, he was, he was great,

1934
01:49:08,360 --> 01:49:10,680
Speaker 2: he was he was like, you kind of don't want

1935
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 2: to do that, and we were like, yeah, we do.

1936
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:13,960
Speaker 2: He's like, all right, if you say so. And he

1937
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:16,880
Speaker 2: threw us out there and we, uh. The tour. The

1938
01:49:16,920 --> 01:49:20,240
Speaker 2: tour that year has been commonly referred to as the

1939
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:22,280
Speaker 2: Thrown to the Wolves tour because he was like, I'm

1940
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:23,920
Speaker 2: gonna throw you to the wolves, and we're like, let's go.

1941
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:26,559
Speaker 2: And he did, and we were thrown to the wolves

1942
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:28,960
Speaker 2: and we were like, oh, got it. Okay, we need

1943
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 2: to we need to we need to rethink this whole thing.

1944
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:34,840
Speaker 1: He threw you to the wolves. What did that look like?

1945
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:40,920
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, touring in a in a in a

1946
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:44,719
Speaker 2: twelve passenger van with no a C in the South

1947
01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:49,240
Speaker 2: in the middle of the summer, sleeping in our trailer

1948
01:49:49,439 --> 01:49:52,960
Speaker 2: and Walmart parking lots and just playing terrible gig after

1949
01:49:53,040 --> 01:50:00,160
Speaker 2: terrible gig, like hemorrhaging money, you know, the whole the

1950
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:02,760
Speaker 2: whole thing you know, and uh, not only that, but

1951
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:06,439
Speaker 2: the band dynamic at that point was was pretty it

1952
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:09,519
Speaker 2: was pretty bad. It was just like it wasn't we

1953
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:13,080
Speaker 2: weren't connected and we weren't doing it for the same

1954
01:50:13,120 --> 01:50:17,840
Speaker 2: reasons everyone in the band. So we just had a

1955
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:20,160
Speaker 2: lot to learn at that point, and it was it

1956
01:50:20,200 --> 01:50:23,000
Speaker 2: was necessary because of that, you know, just getting our

1957
01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:26,280
Speaker 2: asses kicked like that, and Trevor, Trevor and I there

1958
01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:28,400
Speaker 2: were many nights when we were out there just like

1959
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:31,040
Speaker 2: what how do people do this? What is like? This

1960
01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:34,160
Speaker 2: is crazy? How to like where do we go? Like

1961
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:37,040
Speaker 2: how do what is? What is what is this? What

1962
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 2: the what the fuck are we doing? And then you know,

1963
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:40,519
Speaker 2: we'll just to.

1964
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 1: Be clear, a lot of that, so you're playing for

1965
01:50:42,720 --> 01:50:45,160
Speaker 1: little to know money to a fewer no people who

1966
01:50:45,160 --> 01:50:46,680
Speaker 1: weren't interested anyway.

1967
01:50:47,479 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, one hundred percent. Yeah, a lot of that.

1968
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:54,400
Speaker 2: You know, there's if we got if there was like

1969
01:50:54,439 --> 01:50:59,320
Speaker 2: a you know, there was a some place in South

1970
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:02,719
Speaker 2: Carolina where we'd go and play on like the tiki tiaki,

1971
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,160
Speaker 2: like it was like a Helton resort or something like that.

1972
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:07,360
Speaker 2: We'd go and like play on the tiki porch. We'd

1973
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 2: play like three or four sets and got five hundred bucks,

1974
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 2: and we were like, this is this is a this

1975
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:13,400
Speaker 2: is great, you know, and we did not even give

1976
01:51:13,439 --> 01:51:15,439
Speaker 2: us a room, but we got five hundred bucks and

1977
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 2: covered gas for you know, however many shows. So yeah, no,

1978
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:23,200
Speaker 2: it was it was weird. There was there was very

1979
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:25,600
Speaker 2: there was to your question, your original question. There was

1980
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:30,599
Speaker 2: nothing in that time, you know, pointing towards any hope

1981
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:34,040
Speaker 2: or success there. But it didn't. It was like it was,

1982
01:51:34,560 --> 01:51:36,559
Speaker 2: I guess in retrospect it was crazy, but like I

1983
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:37,960
Speaker 2: was that stubborn and they were like, no, we just

1984
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:40,320
Speaker 2: got to just keep going, keep trying. There's got to

1985
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:44,960
Speaker 2: be a way, you know. So you know, you know,

1986
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:50,080
Speaker 2: we made we made changes and things evolved, and uh,

1987
01:51:50,560 --> 01:51:53,720
Speaker 2: you know kind of found found our way to a

1988
01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:56,559
Speaker 2: better dynamic within the band at least, you know, like

1989
01:51:56,600 --> 01:51:58,720
Speaker 2: a better one, a more functional one where we were

1990
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:01,920
Speaker 2: more connected and and uh, you know, when Peter joined

1991
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,839
Speaker 2: the band, he understood more of you know, he understood

1992
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:07,040
Speaker 2: what we were, what we were trying to do, and

1993
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 2: he was coming from the same place like the he had.

1994
01:52:10,200 --> 01:52:12,720
Speaker 2: He was coming from that that like you know, yeah,

1995
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:15,240
Speaker 2: I play music with my friends and my parents' basement

1996
01:52:15,320 --> 01:52:18,720
Speaker 2: because that's because that's really fun and that's like what

1997
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:22,080
Speaker 2: we're trying to do, and it's just a it was

1998
01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:24,760
Speaker 2: like a it was more of more of more of

1999
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:29,760
Speaker 2: that energy that of the original why you know what

2000
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:33,160
Speaker 2: I mean, why why you do it? Instead of like

2001
01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:35,400
Speaker 2: some other energy of like I want to be on

2002
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:37,320
Speaker 2: stage in front of lots of people and like in

2003
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:40,880
Speaker 2: the industry and getting good looks and all the things

2004
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:43,599
Speaker 2: that come with that's it, you know, those things are

2005
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,320
Speaker 2: there's there's cool parts to all of that, but it's

2006
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:49,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, not it's not what what I'm in

2007
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:53,080
Speaker 2: it for, you know. And as time goes on and

2008
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 2: just become less and less interested in that side of

2009
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:58,519
Speaker 2: things and just want to, you know, be more and

2010
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:03,519
Speaker 2: more connected to the core of of the why of

2011
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:06,599
Speaker 2: it all and uh okay experience.

2012
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:10,320
Speaker 1: So they throw you into the Wolves, you reset when

2013
01:53:10,360 --> 01:53:12,400
Speaker 1: you start to work again. What does it look like?

2014
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:16,680
Speaker 2: Uh well, we never really stopped. It was kind of

2015
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 2: like from that point for Forward is it was really

2016
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:21,920
Speaker 2: trial by fire. We there was no there was no

2017
01:53:22,120 --> 01:53:25,160
Speaker 2: like there was one long tour which was a thrown

2018
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:27,080
Speaker 2: to the Wolf's tour, but at large we were playing

2019
01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:28,479
Speaker 2: we were kind of doing a lot of Weekend Warrior

2020
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:32,320
Speaker 2: stuff and once we started, we we haven't really stopped.

2021
01:53:33,160 --> 01:53:37,719
Speaker 1: Okay, but you're playing original material to people who really

2022
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,759
Speaker 1: don't know who you are. How does that work?

2023
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:46,960
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we we played covers too. Sometimes that helps,

2024
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:50,439
Speaker 2: you know, are doing an interpretation of a cover that

2025
01:53:50,479 --> 01:53:52,400
Speaker 2: someone knows. And you know, in those days, it was

2026
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 2: it was it was, you know, that thing could be helpful,

2027
01:53:56,160 --> 01:53:58,840
Speaker 2: but I don't know, you know, if we got an

2028
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,280
Speaker 2: opening gig or something like some some of those were

2029
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 2: some of those were helpful. You know. Really a turning

2030
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:08,000
Speaker 2: point was the beginning of twenty eighteen. That was in

2031
01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:10,000
Speaker 2: my you know, for all intents and purposes, that was

2032
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:12,280
Speaker 2: the turning point in terms of us kind of getting

2033
01:54:12,320 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 2: our getting our act together. Peter joined the band, and

2034
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:19,439
Speaker 2: he was he was kind of, you know, a driving

2035
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:21,559
Speaker 2: force in the band that he was in prior to that,

2036
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 2: and him and I just started working together a lot.

2037
01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:28,880
Speaker 2: And prior to that, I hadn't really had that like

2038
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:31,320
Speaker 2: someone on the front lines in that in that same

2039
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 2: way you know, Trevor and I were working on things

2040
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:38,880
Speaker 2: all the time. But yeah, it did. Peter kind of

2041
01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:44,760
Speaker 2: had this this like workhorse vibe and kind of day

2042
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:48,880
Speaker 2: to day which is like was you know, was making

2043
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:52,920
Speaker 2: sure all the recordings got the soundboard recordings, were We're

2044
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:56,360
Speaker 2: getting getting done, and he started getting into video. He

2045
01:54:56,880 --> 01:54:59,960
Speaker 2: learned how to edit video and and really really quickly

2046
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:04,040
Speaker 2: and well so and him and I just were on

2047
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 2: the same wavelength of like thinking about creating a world really,

2048
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:10,920
Speaker 2: you know, because it ties into like the branding and

2049
01:55:11,000 --> 01:55:13,640
Speaker 2: all of that, but really it's that the branding is

2050
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:15,640
Speaker 2: in my mind, has always been just a vehicle to

2051
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:20,840
Speaker 2: create a feeling. And when he first joined the band,

2052
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:23,640
Speaker 2: we had already had this opportunity to go open for

2053
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:27,080
Speaker 2: this band, Stafford, who at that time was like on fire,

2054
01:55:27,200 --> 01:55:30,560
Speaker 2: like really they were having this big moment crushing and

2055
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:35,680
Speaker 2: their tour was so intense and they were playing maybe

2056
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 2: you know, it was like five hundred to fifteen hundred

2057
01:55:37,880 --> 01:55:40,840
Speaker 2: cap venues, which felt and they were like full, all

2058
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:44,400
Speaker 2: of them were slammed, which was way bigger than anything

2059
01:55:44,440 --> 01:55:46,000
Speaker 2: that we had done to that point, and it felt

2060
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,640
Speaker 2: the energy around it was so is so intense, and

2061
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:50,480
Speaker 2: we were opening for them. We opened them for them

2062
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:53,880
Speaker 2: for seven shows in January of twenty eighteen, right when

2063
01:55:53,920 --> 01:55:56,280
Speaker 2: Peter joined the band, he barely played keyboards.

2064
01:55:55,840 --> 01:55:56,040
Speaker 1: It was.

2065
01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 2: You know, very very trial by fire. But that experience

2066
01:56:01,040 --> 01:56:03,480
Speaker 2: sort of set the tone for for for us and

2067
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:05,280
Speaker 2: it was kind of like, okay, we I think we

2068
01:56:05,360 --> 01:56:09,080
Speaker 2: understand like what we need to do. That that kicked

2069
01:56:09,120 --> 01:56:12,680
Speaker 2: us into gear in terms of building it just informing

2070
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 2: the world that we wanted to start building. It was

2071
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:18,600
Speaker 2: an extremely valuable experience and we started doing that. You know,

2072
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:20,360
Speaker 2: we started working on the website and like, what is

2073
01:56:20,440 --> 01:56:22,680
Speaker 2: what kind of feeling does the website have, you know

2074
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:24,400
Speaker 2: when you when you go on there, does it feel

2075
01:56:24,760 --> 01:56:27,200
Speaker 2: like some kind of immersive thing? You know? And then

2076
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 2: filling out our catalog and filling out you know, show recordings,

2077
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:35,000
Speaker 2: soundboard recordings for people to listen to, videos for people

2078
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:37,600
Speaker 2: to watch on YouTube, which ended up being really really

2079
01:56:37,640 --> 01:56:41,200
Speaker 2: the thing that in you know, outside of the music

2080
01:56:41,360 --> 01:56:45,600
Speaker 2: and all of the chemistry and all the things we

2081
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:48,800
Speaker 2: were working on in that regard the the building the

2082
01:56:48,880 --> 01:56:53,600
Speaker 2: content world online was was really what it was. It

2083
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:57,200
Speaker 2: was just an extremely necessary thing for the way that

2084
01:56:57,800 --> 01:57:03,200
Speaker 2: we got to the place that we got to. So yeah,

2085
01:57:03,240 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 2: that was that was really that was really the thing.

2086
01:57:05,600 --> 01:57:08,240
Speaker 2: And you know that that experience we got a taste

2087
01:57:08,240 --> 01:57:10,240
Speaker 2: of that energy of like people coming to shows and

2088
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:16,800
Speaker 2: rapidly you know, and consuming and like looking for looking

2089
01:57:16,840 --> 01:57:21,120
Speaker 2: for something to be you know, experienced or found on stage,

2090
01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 2: something unique and something you know, happening in real time

2091
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:28,120
Speaker 2: and and and real you know, and like later that

2092
01:57:28,240 --> 01:57:31,760
Speaker 2: year there was a there was I think we got

2093
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:35,320
Speaker 2: our our first taste in our own respect of a

2094
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 2: very very long winded answer your question, I apologize for that,

2095
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:41,680
Speaker 2: but our first taste of that in our own, you know,

2096
01:57:42,120 --> 01:57:46,320
Speaker 2: respective world was a few months after that, we did

2097
01:57:46,320 --> 01:57:49,600
Speaker 2: a tour out to Colorado and we played, uh, you know,

2098
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:54,080
Speaker 2: same same deal, status quo, ton of you know, shady

2099
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:57,440
Speaker 2: gigs that no one came to, no one cared about us,

2100
01:57:57,800 --> 01:58:02,280
Speaker 2: but we had We had this one gig booked on

2101
01:58:02,360 --> 01:58:04,520
Speaker 2: the way out to Colorado, and then two weeks later,

2102
01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:07,600
Speaker 2: on the way back from Colorado in Covington, Kentucky, and

2103
01:58:08,360 --> 01:58:12,120
Speaker 2: this one this one guy who had like there was

2104
01:58:12,120 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 2: a crew of friends that lived there, but they're really

2105
01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:16,640
Speaker 2: they lived in Cincinnati, but they went to shows in Covington,

2106
01:58:16,720 --> 01:58:20,440
Speaker 2: Kentucky's right over the right over the river. And this

2107
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:22,080
Speaker 2: one guy listened to our saw we were on the

2108
01:58:22,080 --> 01:58:25,800
Speaker 2: schedule this at this club, the Octave in Covington and

2109
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:28,400
Speaker 2: listened to it, like, found our album, listen to it,

2110
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:30,880
Speaker 2: liked it, spread it around to his friends. They all

2111
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:33,280
Speaker 2: listened to it. They learned some of the songs, and

2112
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, maybe there was ten twelve of these people,

2113
01:58:37,160 --> 01:58:40,120
Speaker 2: of these kids that came to this show totally unexpectedly,

2114
01:58:40,160 --> 01:58:43,520
Speaker 2: and you know, we just played expecting another you know,

2115
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,320
Speaker 2: shit gig on a Tuesday night in Covington, Kentucky where

2116
01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:50,480
Speaker 2: no one was there, and here are these twelve kids

2117
01:58:50,480 --> 01:58:52,440
Speaker 2: who like know the lyrics to some of our songs

2118
01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:55,480
Speaker 2: and are just throwing there brings so much energy, like

2119
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:57,560
Speaker 2: they're having a great time, and it's just kind of

2120
01:58:57,640 --> 01:58:59,640
Speaker 2: us in them. It was like this really intimate thing

2121
01:59:00,200 --> 01:59:04,360
Speaker 2: and for us that was like that was amazing. So

2122
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:10,920
Speaker 2: we you know, fortunately, uh we like we were coming

2123
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:13,400
Speaker 2: back to the same place two weeks later, and they,

2124
01:59:13,680 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 2: I guess the word spread. They they talked to more

2125
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:18,560
Speaker 2: people around town, the word spread more, and we came

2126
01:59:18,600 --> 01:59:20,880
Speaker 2: back and there were like one hundred people there and

2127
01:59:20,920 --> 01:59:23,280
Speaker 2: the energy was awesome and we you know, we threw

2128
01:59:23,320 --> 01:59:25,840
Speaker 2: down and and it was it was kind of this like,

2129
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:29,280
Speaker 2: oh wow, one hundred people came to actually to kind

2130
01:59:29,280 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 2: of to see us, and then I think three months

2131
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:35,800
Speaker 2: later there or four months later that year, we went

2132
01:59:35,840 --> 01:59:37,640
Speaker 2: back in June and did two nights at that club

2133
01:59:37,960 --> 01:59:41,240
Speaker 2: and it was sort of sold out, and we felt

2134
01:59:41,240 --> 01:59:43,040
Speaker 2: like we were on top of the world doing two

2135
01:59:43,120 --> 01:59:46,960
Speaker 2: nights of this this this little club, and it was

2136
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:50,280
Speaker 2: it was it was like our first taste of of

2137
01:59:50,280 --> 01:59:53,760
Speaker 2: of that kind of thing at all, you know. And

2138
01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:57,040
Speaker 2: then we kept touring and playing other places and we're

2139
01:59:57,080 --> 01:59:59,960
Speaker 2: you know, in other areas for all intents and purposes,

2140
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:04,120
Speaker 2: went back to playing shit gigs for no one. But then,

2141
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,879
Speaker 2: you know, throughout that year in the early twenty nineteen,

2142
02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:10,920
Speaker 2: gradually saw you know, we sold like sold one hundred

2143
02:00:10,920 --> 02:00:14,080
Speaker 2: tickets in Buffalo, you know at the door, and like

2144
02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:16,000
Speaker 2: that was a huge win for us. We were like, oh,

2145
02:00:16,080 --> 02:00:19,000
Speaker 2: all right, great, another one, another place where people know

2146
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:20,800
Speaker 2: who we are and are coming like some people are

2147
02:00:20,800 --> 02:00:23,960
Speaker 2: coming to a show. That was a big deal because

2148
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:26,160
Speaker 2: it wasn't there was no there was no label, there

2149
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:28,800
Speaker 2: was no like our music wasn't being consumed in that

2150
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:31,200
Speaker 2: way at all. It was it was all just our

2151
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:34,760
Speaker 2: only hope was the grassroots thing, you know, at least

2152
02:00:35,080 --> 02:00:38,640
Speaker 2: as far as we were aware. So then you know,

2153
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:43,800
Speaker 2: gradually we got we got more some more festival stuff,

2154
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 2: more opening gigs for you know, opening for other bands

2155
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:51,120
Speaker 2: like Pigeons playing ping pong and bands like that, and

2156
02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:55,600
Speaker 2: you know, throughout twenty eight the latter end of eighteen

2157
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:58,640
Speaker 2: and into twenty twenty nineteen, first half of twenty nineteen,

2158
02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:01,920
Speaker 2: they felt like the pressure, the pressure points were just

2159
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:05,120
Speaker 2: getting hit more and more. You know, we were just

2160
02:01:05,160 --> 02:01:07,480
Speaker 2: in the flow with it and doing doing these things

2161
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:12,200
Speaker 2: and could feel could feel the needle moving a little bit,

2162
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:15,240
Speaker 2: but not not crazy substantial. After that, you know, the

2163
02:01:15,240 --> 02:01:18,120
Speaker 2: experience in Covington and stuff, it was, you know, it

2164
02:01:18,160 --> 02:01:21,160
Speaker 2: was a kind of us flow flow role for the

2165
02:01:21,160 --> 02:01:25,240
Speaker 2: most part. And then you know that summer, the real

2166
02:01:25,280 --> 02:01:28,800
Speaker 2: turning point was the Peach Peach Festival in twenty nineteen.

2167
02:01:29,480 --> 02:01:30,920
Speaker 2: There was a lot of hype around the set. We

2168
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:32,920
Speaker 2: played the set, and you know, we kind of gotten

2169
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:35,040
Speaker 2: used to like playing these festival sets, which like back

2170
02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:36,840
Speaker 2: in the day, you know, I had this like really

2171
02:01:36,920 --> 02:01:40,840
Speaker 2: naive mentality around it, like, oh, we'll play this festival

2172
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:42,400
Speaker 2: set and like it's really things are going to really

2173
02:01:42,480 --> 02:01:44,280
Speaker 2: change after that, like all of a sudden, people who

2174
02:01:44,480 --> 02:01:46,160
Speaker 2: will know who we are, will come to shows and stuff,

2175
02:01:46,160 --> 02:01:47,840
Speaker 2: and I got I had gotten so used to that

2176
02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:49,800
Speaker 2: not being the case, you know, thinking that the needle

2177
02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:51,360
Speaker 2: was going to move, and then it didn't. So we

2178
02:01:51,400 --> 02:01:52,760
Speaker 2: played that gig and there was hype around and I

2179
02:01:52,840 --> 02:01:55,120
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that's cool. A lot of people were there,

2180
02:01:55,280 --> 02:01:58,920
Speaker 2: you know, it was pretty packed. And then we put

2181
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:02,320
Speaker 2: out the video from that set like really quickly after it,

2182
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:04,240
Speaker 2: as we kind of had gotten used to doing at

2183
02:02:04,240 --> 02:02:09,320
Speaker 2: that point, and I didn't think that much like it was,

2184
02:02:09,360 --> 02:02:10,480
Speaker 2: you know, it was a big moment. It felt like

2185
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:11,960
Speaker 2: a lot of hype. It was pretty stressed about it,

2186
02:02:12,040 --> 02:02:13,360
Speaker 2: but then we just did it and I didn't think

2187
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:17,360
Speaker 2: too much of it, and it didn't realize, you know,

2188
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:18,840
Speaker 2: that was that was going to be as much of

2189
02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:21,880
Speaker 2: a catalyst as it was, or as much of a

2190
02:02:21,920 --> 02:02:24,480
Speaker 2: breaking point as it was. You know. The video kind

2191
02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:27,760
Speaker 2: of started getting shared a lot online and and then

2192
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:30,480
Speaker 2: there was this sort of viral thing. I guess that

2193
02:02:30,600 --> 02:02:34,640
Speaker 2: happened with like fish Twitter. Everyone was like doing meme,

2194
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:38,200
Speaker 2: like joking with sending all these memes around about goose jokes,

2195
02:02:38,240 --> 02:02:40,600
Speaker 2: and people thought it was a joke but then ended

2196
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:43,000
Speaker 2: up going and checking out the band, So it kind

2197
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:44,840
Speaker 2: of just h it kind of just erupted by there.

2198
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:47,160
Speaker 2: And then by the by that fall, the fall tour

2199
02:02:47,320 --> 02:02:49,800
Speaker 2: was was pretty much totally sold out all the little

2200
02:02:49,800 --> 02:02:52,240
Speaker 2: clubs we had booked and stuff like that. People were

2201
02:02:52,280 --> 02:02:55,400
Speaker 2: just buying tickets and then it kind of just kind

2202
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:56,240
Speaker 2: of just grew from there.

2203
02:02:56,960 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 1: So then COVID hits. So what do you do for COVID?

2204
02:03:04,200 --> 02:03:07,320
Speaker 2: We I mean, it was I feel that in a

2205
02:03:07,320 --> 02:03:11,320
Speaker 2: lot of ways, you know, for us, it was it

2206
02:03:11,360 --> 02:03:15,120
Speaker 2: was really helpful to to for things to slow down,

2207
02:03:15,200 --> 02:03:18,200
Speaker 2: to stop at that time because the schedule we had

2208
02:03:18,240 --> 02:03:21,480
Speaker 2: planned for that year was going to tear at least personally,

2209
02:03:21,480 --> 02:03:23,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was gonna tear me up, like

2210
02:03:23,120 --> 02:03:25,120
Speaker 2: it was. It was. It was crazy that summer. The

2211
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:28,200
Speaker 2: schedule we had plotted for that summer, it was shooting

2212
02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:30,720
Speaker 2: around to three festivals every weekend all around the country.

2213
02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:33,880
Speaker 2: It was just like, you know, you can't, you can't

2214
02:03:33,880 --> 02:03:38,440
Speaker 2: do well in the under those circumstances. Especially, I mean

2215
02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:41,480
Speaker 2: I for sure can't, and maybe other people can't, but

2216
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:46,520
Speaker 2: like that, I just not a recipe for for doing

2217
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:50,840
Speaker 2: your best work, you know, So we slowed down, well,

2218
02:03:51,120 --> 02:03:54,320
Speaker 2: you know, the world slowed down. We because of the

2219
02:03:54,320 --> 02:03:57,640
Speaker 2: momentum we had at that point, we just kind of

2220
02:03:57,640 --> 02:04:01,560
Speaker 2: instinctively we didn't stop working, but the fact of you know,

2221
02:04:01,880 --> 02:04:04,240
Speaker 2: the nature of just sleeping at home for the bulk

2222
02:04:04,280 --> 02:04:06,160
Speaker 2: of that year and being in one place and going

2223
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:09,480
Speaker 2: for walks in the woods every day in conjunction with

2224
02:04:09,560 --> 02:04:11,240
Speaker 2: the things we were working on. We finished a record

2225
02:04:11,320 --> 02:04:13,440
Speaker 2: we were that was taking us forever to work on.

2226
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 2: I was doing all the editing myself, and it was

2227
02:04:16,280 --> 02:04:19,520
Speaker 2: I was just laboring over it way more than I

2228
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,080
Speaker 2: should have. And you know, that gave us the opportunity

2229
02:04:23,080 --> 02:04:25,800
Speaker 2: to finally finish that thing, which was you know, important

2230
02:04:25,800 --> 02:04:30,600
Speaker 2: for us. And you know, we were just cranking out videos,

2231
02:04:30,600 --> 02:04:32,800
Speaker 2: live streams and working on that and trying to make

2232
02:04:33,520 --> 02:04:37,720
Speaker 2: make those things interesting and and different. You know, there's

2233
02:04:38,520 --> 02:04:41,160
Speaker 2: we did all these live streams in the spring of

2234
02:04:41,200 --> 02:04:44,360
Speaker 2: that year and had gotten like a really good response

2235
02:04:44,480 --> 02:04:46,240
Speaker 2: from a lot of them. The way we were doing them,

2236
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:48,760
Speaker 2: it felt kind of alive. We had people on on

2237
02:04:48,840 --> 02:04:51,000
Speaker 2: like handicams and moving and it was kind of dynamic,

2238
02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:54,120
Speaker 2: and it felt felt interesting, and you know, we put

2239
02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:55,920
Speaker 2: a lot of energy into that and trying to make

2240
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:59,560
Speaker 2: those as cool as we could, and then summer rolled around,

2241
02:04:59,720 --> 02:05:03,120
Speaker 2: and you know, our managers were like, all right, we're

2242
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:07,200
Speaker 2: gonna everyone's doing tours, virtual tours, and you know that

2243
02:05:07,400 --> 02:05:11,080
Speaker 2: sounded really like boring to me. It was just kind

2244
02:05:11,080 --> 02:05:14,200
Speaker 2: of like, we're we're all just gonna keep doing what

2245
02:05:14,240 --> 02:05:16,240
Speaker 2: we're doing. Just just do more and more videos of

2246
02:05:16,320 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 2: us playing kind of the same mute, same songs in

2247
02:05:18,640 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 2: the same room over and over again. That you know,

2248
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:23,800
Speaker 2: what makes touring. You know, you're you're in different places,

2249
02:05:23,840 --> 02:05:26,280
Speaker 2: playing to different people, so it it you know, it

2250
02:05:26,280 --> 02:05:28,720
Speaker 2: doesn't get as it doesn't get as redundant because of that.

2251
02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:31,600
Speaker 2: So it just felt like like a like a really

2252
02:05:31,640 --> 02:05:34,920
Speaker 2: redundant thing. So that that kind of triggered us to

2253
02:05:34,920 --> 02:05:36,480
Speaker 2: to think to try to think about it in a

2254
02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:40,680
Speaker 2: different way and make it compelling and add some element

2255
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:45,000
Speaker 2: to it that was more interactive and uh and more engaging,

2256
02:05:45,040 --> 02:05:49,400
Speaker 2: I guess, and and and more and more immersive. So we, uh,

2257
02:05:49,600 --> 02:05:51,320
Speaker 2: you know, we did this bingo tour thing, which is

2258
02:05:51,480 --> 02:05:54,200
Speaker 2: which is you know, turned the entire how many of

2259
02:05:54,200 --> 02:05:56,520
Speaker 2: every many shows it was into a bingo game and

2260
02:05:56,560 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 2: everyone had cards and it was it was we they functional.

2261
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:02,120
Speaker 2: We had our own TV channel for like two weeks,

2262
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:05,880
Speaker 2: which we really ran with. We had we built up

2263
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:08,320
Speaker 2: all different kinds of kinds of content. We had people

2264
02:06:08,840 --> 02:06:12,000
Speaker 2: doing videos walking them through like whatever. If someone had

2265
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:14,800
Speaker 2: in our community here had a farm in the backyard,

2266
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:16,480
Speaker 2: you know, we did a video of them walking through

2267
02:06:16,520 --> 02:06:20,200
Speaker 2: the farm. Or we did like yoga videos or or

2268
02:06:20,480 --> 02:06:22,360
Speaker 2: cooking classes and all kinds of stuff. We were just

2269
02:06:22,440 --> 02:06:25,240
Speaker 2: cranking content through this thing, and we were all just

2270
02:06:25,360 --> 02:06:27,600
Speaker 2: in this area and being really creative and coming up

2271
02:06:27,640 --> 02:06:29,160
Speaker 2: with ideas and having a lot of fun. And it

2272
02:06:29,160 --> 02:06:32,640
Speaker 2: was a really really special time. So I think they're

2273
02:06:32,760 --> 02:06:36,400
Speaker 2: doing all these things. It was a special like it

2274
02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:39,080
Speaker 2: was a special time, a special opportunity, I guess because

2275
02:06:39,160 --> 02:06:43,520
Speaker 2: the world had just you know, stopped, everyone had slowed down.

2276
02:06:43,520 --> 02:06:46,960
Speaker 2: And you know, if that happened now, we probably would

2277
02:06:47,200 --> 02:06:49,960
Speaker 2: use it as a opportunity. I mean maybe to do

2278
02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:51,640
Speaker 2: the same I don't know, but but you know it

2279
02:06:51,640 --> 02:06:53,680
Speaker 2: would it would be at a very different point because

2280
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:54,880
Speaker 2: it would be like, all right, I'm going to slow

2281
02:06:54,920 --> 02:06:57,120
Speaker 2: down and like write, I'm going to write a lot.

2282
02:06:57,200 --> 02:06:58,720
Speaker 2: And I think probably a lot of people did that,

2283
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:00,720
Speaker 2: but for where we were, it was like we were

2284
02:07:01,280 --> 02:07:03,520
Speaker 2: we were in a place to be just turning and burning,

2285
02:07:03,520 --> 02:07:06,840
Speaker 2: and we did and it ended up I guess, you know,

2286
02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:10,760
Speaker 2: it reached a lot more people. Somehow, it just continued

2287
02:07:10,800 --> 02:07:12,640
Speaker 2: to grow through all of that, and then we started

2288
02:07:12,640 --> 02:07:15,800
Speaker 2: doing the drive in shows and doing doing whatever we could,

2289
02:07:15,880 --> 02:07:18,600
Speaker 2: whatever was whatever people were doing, whatever was coming you know,

2290
02:07:18,920 --> 02:07:22,520
Speaker 2: coming up, we were we just didn't stop working, and

2291
02:07:23,000 --> 02:07:23,880
Speaker 2: you know it seemed to work.

2292
02:07:24,200 --> 02:07:27,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so now live gigs come back. What does the

2293
02:07:27,120 --> 02:07:28,200
Speaker 1: landscape look like?

2294
02:07:30,640 --> 02:07:33,800
Speaker 2: It was pretty gradual, right, I mean the the I

2295
02:07:33,840 --> 02:07:36,360
Speaker 2: mean it felt like we like shows were happening and

2296
02:07:36,360 --> 02:07:38,600
Speaker 2: it was kind of like intense, and you know, there

2297
02:07:38,680 --> 02:07:42,520
Speaker 2: was people are in pods or whatever, and and then

2298
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:45,360
Speaker 2: you know, COVID would kind of come back strong and

2299
02:07:45,360 --> 02:07:47,760
Speaker 2: and things would kind of slow down and shut down again,

2300
02:07:47,840 --> 02:07:51,720
Speaker 2: and but you know, fun functionally, for the most part,

2301
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:55,680
Speaker 2: we were riding that landscape. We just we we really

2302
02:07:55,760 --> 02:07:59,720
Speaker 2: didn't stop and uh, it kind of just kept growing.

2303
02:08:00,160 --> 02:08:02,960
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, the shows just kept getting bigger,

2304
02:08:03,080 --> 02:08:05,560
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, in a lot of ways, it

2305
02:08:05,600 --> 02:08:08,000
Speaker 2: was it was tough to it. It's a challenge, you know,

2306
02:08:08,040 --> 02:08:09,880
Speaker 2: being on that kind of wave and keeping up with

2307
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:14,280
Speaker 2: it and meeting meeting the expectations that other people, that

2308
02:08:14,320 --> 02:08:17,320
Speaker 2: everyone has and that you have on yourself in in

2309
02:08:17,320 --> 02:08:20,720
Speaker 2: that type of opportunity. It's it's you know, it's not easy.

2310
02:08:22,560 --> 02:08:24,560
Speaker 2: So you know, I think we throughout all of that.

2311
02:08:24,600 --> 02:08:26,920
Speaker 2: It's just it continued to grow, and you know, there's

2312
02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:31,680
Speaker 2: a huge the adaptation process to that from a production

2313
02:08:31,800 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 2: standpoint was was a huge challenge as well. You know,

2314
02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 2: we we didn't we were like playing clubs. We didn't

2315
02:08:37,080 --> 02:08:40,400
Speaker 2: know how to how to graduate into these bigger things,

2316
02:08:40,440 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 2: and there was like a massive learning curve with that,

2317
02:08:44,440 --> 02:08:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, big time crew and and how to how

2318
02:08:47,080 --> 02:08:49,560
Speaker 2: to go into these bigger rooms and actually do it right.

2319
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:54,960
Speaker 2: And you know that's uh, we we did the best

2320
02:08:55,200 --> 02:08:57,000
Speaker 2: we could. You know, we were we were just doing

2321
02:08:57,040 --> 02:08:59,480
Speaker 2: our best through that that period. And also, like I

2322
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:03,040
Speaker 2: said earlier, you know, twenty twenty one, I crashed out again.

2323
02:09:03,080 --> 02:09:05,120
Speaker 2: I was I was you know, I was hanging out

2324
02:09:05,120 --> 02:09:08,480
Speaker 2: by a thread for a lot of that time. So

2325
02:09:09,120 --> 02:09:12,040
Speaker 2: it was, you know, we were just we were doing

2326
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:13,640
Speaker 2: doing the best we could with what we had.

2327
02:09:13,680 --> 02:09:16,920
Speaker 1: You know, well, when did the numbers start to jump

2328
02:09:16,960 --> 02:09:19,480
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, attendance.

2329
02:09:20,920 --> 02:09:23,920
Speaker 2: I mean early twenty twenty it was already like that

2330
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:27,680
Speaker 2: fall of twenty nineteen, that whole tour had kind of

2331
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:30,840
Speaker 2: sold out and we had done our our first show

2332
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:33,760
Speaker 2: to six hundred people that you know, that sold out

2333
02:09:33,800 --> 02:09:38,560
Speaker 2: in Virginia, Richmond, I think, and Chicago kind of hit

2334
02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 2: a similar number, and that that felt huge to us.

2335
02:09:41,400 --> 02:09:45,640
Speaker 2: You know, that was massive. And then you know, during

2336
02:09:45,680 --> 02:09:47,960
Speaker 2: that time, during that fall, I remember, we put up

2337
02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:51,840
Speaker 2: we had we had gotten we just started working with

2338
02:09:51,880 --> 02:09:55,680
Speaker 2: our current agents and they they were like, we want

2339
02:09:55,680 --> 02:09:59,760
Speaker 2: to put up two shows in New York, one in Brooklyn,

2340
02:09:59,760 --> 02:10:04,880
Speaker 2: one Manhattan in January of twenty twenty. And they did

2341
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:08,400
Speaker 2: and they and we were like, well they were both

2342
02:10:08,440 --> 02:10:10,800
Speaker 2: six hundred cap rooms and they were there was like

2343
02:10:10,920 --> 02:10:13,320
Speaker 2: back to back rooms, back to back nights, and we

2344
02:10:13,320 --> 02:10:15,840
Speaker 2: were like whoa, Like that seems way aggressive, but maybe

2345
02:10:15,880 --> 02:10:17,880
Speaker 2: one of those, you know, but there's no but like

2346
02:10:17,920 --> 02:10:20,880
Speaker 2: two that's no one, you know, it's gonna we're gonna

2347
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:22,920
Speaker 2: take a bath. It's not no one's gonna come, you know.

2348
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:27,920
Speaker 2: And they put them up and they both sold out

2349
02:10:28,040 --> 02:10:31,960
Speaker 2: in like a second, and we thought there was The

2350
02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:34,760
Speaker 2: initial reaction was like there's there's you know, there's must

2351
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:40,800
Speaker 2: be something wrong with the website. You know, but yeah,

2352
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:45,400
Speaker 2: so that they ended up cooking really hot, and you know,

2353
02:10:45,440 --> 02:10:48,040
Speaker 2: I think the attendance was just kind of that once

2354
02:10:48,120 --> 02:10:50,840
Speaker 2: that that fire starts, the buzz and all of that,

2355
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:53,120
Speaker 2: it kind of just it kind of just kept going.

2356
02:10:53,160 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 2: You know that that spring, these all they all got

2357
02:10:55,560 --> 02:10:57,960
Speaker 2: canceled because of COVID, but you know, I think we

2358
02:10:58,040 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 2: had rooms rooms like thousand to fifteen hundred kind of

2359
02:11:02,400 --> 02:11:04,920
Speaker 2: zone booked, and I think they were all sold out.

2360
02:11:05,600 --> 02:11:08,000
Speaker 2: So it was kind of on that trajectory. And then

2361
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:10,600
Speaker 2: you know, by fall of twenty twenty, we started doing

2362
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:12,960
Speaker 2: those driving things and it was like, you know, selling

2363
02:11:13,000 --> 02:11:16,520
Speaker 2: two thousand of these driving kind of show tickets and

2364
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 2: things like that, and I don't know, the numbers of

2365
02:11:19,240 --> 02:11:21,560
Speaker 2: it all just just kind of get gets fuzzy, but it,

2366
02:11:23,280 --> 02:11:25,480
Speaker 2: you know, it's always an up and down kind of thing,

2367
02:11:25,560 --> 02:11:27,800
Speaker 2: always till to this day. You know, there's there we

2368
02:11:28,200 --> 02:11:30,560
Speaker 2: play some really big shows and then there's some places

2369
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:36,640
Speaker 2: where they're not as big, you know, but the yeah,

2370
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:38,680
Speaker 2: it was it was just a lot of growth for

2371
02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:40,720
Speaker 2: years after that. I mean, the numbers kind of just

2372
02:11:41,840 --> 02:11:44,000
Speaker 2: continued to grow.

2373
02:11:44,040 --> 02:11:48,240
Speaker 1: I guess, well, what point do your peers start to

2374
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:53,200
Speaker 1: embrace you you know, the famous people, you know what

2375
02:11:53,240 --> 02:11:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm talking about.

2376
02:11:55,080 --> 02:12:02,400
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, the more here heroes than peers. But but yeah,

2377
02:12:02,400 --> 02:12:04,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I think twenty twenty two is really when

2378
02:12:05,080 --> 02:12:07,120
Speaker 2: that there was like a huge turning point there. We

2379
02:12:07,160 --> 02:12:10,440
Speaker 2: put out we put out another album that year, and

2380
02:12:10,480 --> 02:12:15,280
Speaker 2: we played Radio City that summer and that was you know,

2381
02:12:15,880 --> 02:12:19,160
Speaker 2: Trey came out and played with us, and so did

2382
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:21,960
Speaker 2: Josh Tillman, father John Misty, which you know, that was

2383
02:12:22,000 --> 02:12:25,040
Speaker 2: a that was a wild combination, like to the point earlier,

2384
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:28,480
Speaker 2: you know, the merging of those two worlds was like

2385
02:12:29,120 --> 02:12:32,200
Speaker 2: was one. I mean, it was just insane that that

2386
02:12:32,200 --> 02:12:35,080
Speaker 2: that happened. I just still don't understand, you know, I

2387
02:12:35,120 --> 02:12:37,680
Speaker 2: still like there's there's a certain degree of dissociation that

2388
02:12:37,720 --> 02:12:39,680
Speaker 2: has to for me, that has to happen in order

2389
02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:42,160
Speaker 2: to just like show up to those things. And when

2390
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:44,440
Speaker 2: that's it's like, Okay, this is happening. Cool, you know,

2391
02:12:45,080 --> 02:12:47,200
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel real to me on some level, but

2392
02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:49,400
Speaker 2: it's just it's happening, so you just will go do

2393
02:12:49,440 --> 02:12:51,040
Speaker 2: it and try our best, you know, do our best.

2394
02:12:52,280 --> 02:12:54,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, so that was I think that was that

2395
02:12:54,160 --> 02:12:56,680
Speaker 2: was obviously a massive moment for us in so many

2396
02:12:56,720 --> 02:13:01,680
Speaker 2: ways and the momentum at that time, I'm it was

2397
02:13:01,800 --> 02:13:05,440
Speaker 2: it was just crazy. And you know, after that kind

2398
02:13:05,440 --> 02:13:08,120
Speaker 2: of those things just kept kept happening. But that that

2399
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:10,200
Speaker 2: that year felt like the turning point as far as

2400
02:13:10,200 --> 02:13:11,360
Speaker 2: that stuff is concerned.

2401
02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:16,800
Speaker 1: Okay, going forward other than more gigs anything special in

2402
02:13:16,840 --> 02:13:26,360
Speaker 1: the pipeline.

2403
02:13:22,080 --> 02:13:26,040
Speaker 2: You know, I I think, uh, it's just you know,

2404
02:13:26,200 --> 02:13:28,920
Speaker 2: building the building our own world feels that's like feels

2405
02:13:28,920 --> 02:13:33,040
Speaker 2: like the most special thing to me. You know, I

2406
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:35,280
Speaker 2: I want to, like I said, I just I want

2407
02:13:35,280 --> 02:13:38,240
Speaker 2: to keep writing a lot of music and putting out

2408
02:13:38,240 --> 02:13:41,240
Speaker 2: as much music as I can and working on different

2409
02:13:41,240 --> 02:13:43,880
Speaker 2: projects like that feels like the juice. That's the sauce

2410
02:13:43,960 --> 02:13:48,480
Speaker 2: to me. And uh, you know, getting getting deeper into

2411
02:13:49,240 --> 02:13:54,720
Speaker 2: into special events is feels really good and something that

2412
02:13:54,760 --> 02:13:57,720
Speaker 2: we're excited to keep doing. And and the things that

2413
02:13:57,720 --> 02:14:01,960
Speaker 2: that feel authentic and exciting and unique, you know that

2414
02:14:01,960 --> 02:14:04,280
Speaker 2: that's that's those are the kinds of things that that

2415
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:07,440
Speaker 2: really fill up the well. You know, we're doing a

2416
02:14:08,400 --> 02:14:11,600
Speaker 2: we started doing we did the first year of a

2417
02:14:11,640 --> 02:14:17,000
Speaker 2: Destination festival in in Cabo last year, so we're you

2418
02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:20,280
Speaker 2: know doing that again this year and is a really

2419
02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:23,920
Speaker 2: special place and really special experience and you know kind

2420
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:26,560
Speaker 2: of uh, we kind of did this once before, but

2421
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:28,440
Speaker 2: it was a very last minute thing. This is kind

2422
02:14:28,480 --> 02:14:31,440
Speaker 2: of the first time we've we've put ourselves in the

2423
02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:35,200
Speaker 2: in the situation to be working on a lineup and

2424
02:14:35,200 --> 02:14:37,760
Speaker 2: having people come to a thing and and and uh

2425
02:14:37,960 --> 02:14:40,920
Speaker 2: kind of hosting in that way. And it's it's really fun,

2426
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:42,600
Speaker 2: and it feels really good, and it feels really good

2427
02:14:42,600 --> 02:14:47,400
Speaker 2: to be you know, having having other artists there and

2428
02:14:47,440 --> 02:14:50,440
Speaker 2: that that we that we love and and you know,

2429
02:14:50,920 --> 02:14:54,760
Speaker 2: look up to and and uh love love just you know,

2430
02:14:54,960 --> 02:14:58,240
Speaker 2: collaborating with and and and you know, getting to be

2431
02:14:58,320 --> 02:15:02,120
Speaker 2: peers with. So you know, that's that's a pretty special thing.

2432
02:15:02,680 --> 02:15:04,800
Speaker 2: Continue to work on that. Our our you know, our

2433
02:15:04,840 --> 02:15:10,480
Speaker 2: event every December Goose Miss. We uh, you know, we

2434
02:15:10,760 --> 02:15:12,960
Speaker 2: try to make that special every year and come up

2435
02:15:13,000 --> 02:15:14,839
Speaker 2: with new ways to to think about that and approach

2436
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:17,440
Speaker 2: that and just like you know many other people in

2437
02:15:18,080 --> 02:15:20,920
Speaker 2: our world have done. But you know, finding our own

2438
02:15:21,040 --> 02:15:23,560
Speaker 2: our own ways into these things and our own our

2439
02:15:23,600 --> 02:15:29,000
Speaker 2: own spin and you know, the way our our energy

2440
02:15:29,040 --> 02:15:31,640
Speaker 2: can can bring it to some some different place. It's

2441
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:34,280
Speaker 2: it's it's a fun process. But yeah, mostly I just

2442
02:15:34,280 --> 02:15:35,240
Speaker 2: want to keep writing music.

2443
02:15:35,880 --> 02:15:38,880
Speaker 1: So you got this destination vessel in Cabo, you played

2444
02:15:38,920 --> 02:15:43,080
Speaker 1: Red Rocks, you played Madison Square Garden. How many tickets

2445
02:15:43,080 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 1: can you sell in secondary markets Cleveland, Minneapolis? I mean

2446
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:51,920
Speaker 1: you tour in those places. How big are the poles?

2447
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:58,120
Speaker 2: It varies, you know, even even within one city, it

2448
02:15:58,240 --> 02:16:00,520
Speaker 2: varies depending on what time of year is, or what

2449
02:16:00,560 --> 02:16:03,840
Speaker 2: the venue is or whatever it may be. You know,

2450
02:16:03,840 --> 02:16:06,440
Speaker 2: there's certain spots where we're getting up where you can

2451
02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:09,080
Speaker 2: do like the ten thousand maybe a little over, maybe

2452
02:16:09,080 --> 02:16:11,760
Speaker 2: a little under kind of mark. And then there's some

2453
02:16:11,800 --> 02:16:14,720
Speaker 2: spots where you know, we're like twenty five hundred to

2454
02:16:15,000 --> 02:16:19,040
Speaker 2: five thousand zone. I'd say most places are are, you know,

2455
02:16:19,120 --> 02:16:21,600
Speaker 2: in that like three to five thousand kind of zone.

2456
02:16:22,960 --> 02:16:27,640
Speaker 1: So personally, do you feel like you've arrived? You're still

2457
02:16:27,680 --> 02:16:29,120
Speaker 1: pinching yourself.

2458
02:16:30,800 --> 02:16:33,640
Speaker 2: You know, if the whole thing is such a whirlwind

2459
02:16:35,959 --> 02:16:39,560
Speaker 2: and it goes so fast, it moves like time when

2460
02:16:39,680 --> 02:16:42,480
Speaker 2: all the tours and stuff, you know, you do three

2461
02:16:42,520 --> 02:16:44,960
Speaker 2: tours a year and then the year's over, and the

2462
02:16:45,040 --> 02:16:47,440
Speaker 2: time moves so fast. It still feels in a lot

2463
02:16:47,440 --> 02:16:50,000
Speaker 2: of ways like like I'm just starting to like trying

2464
02:16:50,040 --> 02:16:53,720
Speaker 2: to get caught up to that change of pace in life,

2465
02:16:54,959 --> 02:16:56,760
Speaker 2: but at the same time, like it's been going on

2466
02:16:56,879 --> 02:16:59,440
Speaker 2: for a while now and I think we have in

2467
02:16:59,480 --> 02:17:01,600
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. Is like we we continue to

2468
02:17:02,320 --> 02:17:04,520
Speaker 2: I think, catch up to it in different ways. But

2469
02:17:04,560 --> 02:17:09,160
Speaker 2: I see I see so much, so much more, runway,

2470
02:17:09,240 --> 02:17:12,560
Speaker 2: so much more. Like That's why when it's it's like

2471
02:17:12,600 --> 02:17:13,960
Speaker 2: kind of what's next, it's like, I want to just

2472
02:17:14,040 --> 02:17:18,640
Speaker 2: keep getting better out where we are, you know. It's

2473
02:17:18,680 --> 02:17:22,199
Speaker 2: it's not thinking about the next the next biggest venue

2474
02:17:22,280 --> 02:17:24,119
Speaker 2: or the next you know, most tickets we can sell.

2475
02:17:24,160 --> 02:17:27,320
Speaker 2: It's just like I just want to continue to be

2476
02:17:27,400 --> 02:17:29,720
Speaker 2: able to show up more and more to to where

2477
02:17:29,720 --> 02:17:32,960
Speaker 2: we are and what we have, you know. That's that's

2478
02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:39,040
Speaker 2: the thing that that feels relevant. I guess yeah, I

2479
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:41,440
Speaker 2: think it's a combination of both. It's like, you know,

2480
02:17:42,520 --> 02:17:47,800
Speaker 2: I think hopefully we arrive more and more each each month,

2481
02:17:48,000 --> 02:17:52,920
Speaker 2: you know, each day, but it still feels surreal for sure.

2482
02:17:53,040 --> 02:17:56,880
Speaker 2: There's still like you know, playing the garden again. It

2483
02:17:57,200 --> 02:17:59,560
Speaker 2: feels like, you know, because we're not we're not part

2484
02:17:59,600 --> 02:18:06,640
Speaker 2: of the mainstream world in that way in so many ways.

2485
02:18:06,680 --> 02:18:09,520
Speaker 2: You know, Uh, it doesn't, it doesn't. It feels like

2486
02:18:09,840 --> 02:18:13,680
Speaker 2: it's like a like a you know, it's like some

2487
02:18:13,760 --> 02:18:15,320
Speaker 2: cheat code or something. We're just like in our own

2488
02:18:15,320 --> 02:18:20,039
Speaker 2: little universe. And and if I think about, you know,

2489
02:18:20,120 --> 02:18:24,160
Speaker 2: comparing or competing with the broader thing, it's it's it's

2490
02:18:24,200 --> 02:18:25,680
Speaker 2: just like, oh, thank god, we don't have to do

2491
02:18:25,720 --> 02:18:28,039
Speaker 2: that because we're just in our own little universe over here.

2492
02:18:28,120 --> 02:18:28,320
Speaker 2: You know.

2493
02:18:29,560 --> 02:18:33,000
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of showing up, you definitely showed up today.

2494
02:18:33,120 --> 02:18:35,440
Speaker 1: I think we got a good understanding of you and

2495
02:18:35,560 --> 02:18:38,200
Speaker 1: the band. Rick. I want to thank you so much

2496
02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:40,400
Speaker 1: for taking this time to speak with my audience.

2497
02:18:41,560 --> 02:18:44,800
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having me until next time.

2498
02:18:45,280 --> 02:18:46,760
Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sex