1 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four. Kathy Holly's case had been cold 2 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: for forty five years. Kathy was just nineteen years old 3 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: when her body was discovered in the Fox River. Police 4 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: at the time collected and saved her clothing from nineteen 5 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: seventy nine. Now just two years later, in nineteen eighty one, 6 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: police found a man dead in an apartment. It looked 7 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: like he accidentally slashed the major artery in his own leg. 8 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: How are these cases connected. Well, tonight we have my 9 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: friend Jared Bradley. Jared is the president of the VAT. 10 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: Now y'all have heard me talk about this DNA collection 11 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: system often own Zone seven. Well, Jared is here tonight 12 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: and he's not only the president of the INVAT system, 13 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: he's also a podcaster all Things Crime. Jared Bradley, Welcome 14 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: to Zone seven, Cheryl Mack. 15 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: It is an absolute honor, I. 16 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: Tell you what. This is overdue, honey, because you have 17 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: been involved in solving case after case after case after case, 18 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: not just cold but frozen cases. 19 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure many detectives will ever say cases 20 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: are completely frozen, but you know, they just investigators to 21 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: me are some of the most amazing people on the planet, 22 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: including yourself, Cheryl. And I know you guys don't ever 23 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: like to take credit for what you do, but the 24 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: fact that you will never give up on a victim 25 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: or a case until it's actually solved, to me is 26 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: one of the just absolute most awesomest things I've ever 27 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: witnessed in my life. 28 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you when I introduce you by saying, 29 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: my friend, I want people to understand you show up. 30 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: You show up at times where it's not expected, it's 31 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: not required, but it is so appreciated. Even when I 32 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: was inducted into the Hall of Fame, you showed up, 33 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: You were there. You will never know what that meant 34 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: to me. And you have been so good to my children. 35 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: You have been inclusive and friendly and kind and generous. 36 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: You showed up in Atlanta with a free en vat 37 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: and said let's do some testing. I mean, it's beyond generosity, 38 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: it is beyond friendship. So I appreciate you on every level. 39 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: So Jared, take us to March twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine, 40 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: when Kathy Holly leaves her apartment to go pick her 41 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: sister up from work in downtown Aurora, Illinois. 42 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually a small city just north of there 43 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: called North Aroar, And at the time the town was 44 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 2: I think about forty five or fifty five hundred people. 45 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: It's a really small town. And back in nineteen seventy nine, 46 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: those of us that were around back then, you know, 47 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: that was just a time that you just didn't really 48 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: worry about about crime a whole lot. And she, her roommate, said, 49 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: she just grabbed her coat and ran out the door 50 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: to go pick up her sister, and she just never 51 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: showed up. And so the police were called about ten 52 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: o'clock and to say that she was missing, that Kathy, 53 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: you know, hadn't come home and she hadn't been there 54 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: to pick up her sister, which was really odd for her. 55 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: She was your typical nineteen year old that was extremely reliable. 56 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: She was just a happy, go lucky, you know, just 57 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: mid western girl that you know, had a boyfriend, had 58 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: all sorts of dreams. Rare for her to actually do 59 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: something like this. So the police, you know, typical of 60 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: most teenagers, they're like, well, you know, who knows what 61 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: she's doing, So we'll give it a little time. And 62 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: at around three am, some of her neighbors and family 63 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: found her car that was normally it was parked on 64 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: the west side of her apartment complex, and they found 65 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: it on the far east side, so as far away 66 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: from her apartment as the car could get. And that 67 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 2: was at three am, so basically five hours later. And 68 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: then it became especially once the police started going through 69 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: a car, they found a pool of blood in the 70 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: back seat, and so that's when it turned into a 71 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: missing person's investigation. It was all hands on deck, but 72 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: again this is a really small community. They have like 73 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: eight officers, so they had to bring in some of 74 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: the Illinois State Patrol. But they were looking for pretty 75 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: steady for the three weeks until a fisherman, a little 76 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: twelve year old boy and his father found her in 77 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: the Fox River. 78 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: So her nineteen seventy two Dodge Charger had been moved. 79 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: It had been driven by somebody on the opposite side 80 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: of the complaint. 81 00:05:53,200 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: Right, and that's pretty much what triggered the actual robust search. 82 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 2: And somebody also found her purse on top of the 83 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: apartment complex, so obviously somebody had probably gone through it 84 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 2: and the car had been ransacked as well, so they 85 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 2: had gone through the car and then thrown her purse 86 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: up on top of the building. 87 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: Now did law enforcement think that was the same person, 88 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: or do they think once the car was abandoned it 89 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: was ransacked by another group. 90 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: I'm not sure they really thought it was multiple assailants. 91 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: I think they were just kind of looking for whoever 92 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: had moved the car. 93 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: So did they have any connection with anybody that had 94 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: been stalking her, bothering her, threatening her, anybody unusual in 95 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: such a small town. 96 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: As far as I know, they didn't. There had been 97 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 2: some people that some other cases that had been in 98 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: the area. There was some nearby town that had had 99 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: some similar tragedies, and so they thought maybe those were connected. 100 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: But remember back in nineteen seventy nine, the forensics just 101 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: wasn't nearly as good, so that late at night there 102 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: weren't any eyewitnesses. There was a typical hangout place that 103 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: was kind of a shopping center, which is actually where 104 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: her sister worked, and so a lot of teenagers and 105 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: you know, people in their early twenties would hang out there. 106 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: So of course the police interviewed a lot of those folks, 107 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: but obviously nobody's going to fess up to it. 108 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: So we have the cause of death. This strangulation, and 109 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, even though you're saying there were 110 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: some other cases and surrounding jurisdictions, in seventy nine, law 111 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: enforcement didn't talk to each other. There weren't task forces 112 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: that were saying, hey, do you have any similar transactions? 113 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: I mean, that just wasn't right. It was interesting that 114 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: the detective that I talked to said that early in 115 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: like twenty twenty, he actually put out, I can't I 116 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: don't know what exactly you call it, but it's basically 117 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: a it's not an APB. It's just kind of a 118 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: notification to other agencies saying, hey, this is kind of 119 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: what our case, like, the strangulation as long as well 120 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: as the sexual assault is anybody have a case similar 121 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: that's in your area. And there were some cases that 122 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: kind of popped from that in nearby, like my cap. 123 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: I guess okay. 124 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: So he just said, hey, this is exactly what we have. 125 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: If you have anything similar, okay. That's pretty good police work. 126 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: To follow up that many years. 127 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: Later, you know, they went and reviewed the case at least, 128 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: you know, once a decade they'd look at it, you know, 129 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: when they'd hear about something new. Some kind of a 130 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 2: new technique, a possibility of you know, especially in the 131 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: eighties that's when DNA started coming around. And so they 132 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: had swabbed the clothing a number of times, especially the underwear, 133 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: but didn't get anything as far as a good hit. 134 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: And it wasn't until around twenty twenty when they finally 135 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: heard about the end back and they thought if there 136 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: was any touch DNA, especially on her panties or on 137 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: possibly you know, if she had been drug from her 138 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: car down to the river, either by her shoes or 139 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: her pant legs, or by you know, grab her by 140 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 2: the armpit kind of thing, you know, carry and just 141 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: kind of dragged legs. That's pretty common. Ultimately they'd learned 142 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: about the end back, they realized how expensive it was, 143 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: and that's when they contacted Season of Justice, and Season 144 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: of Justice helped them pay for it, and so they 145 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 2: sent all the articles down to a lab in Florida 146 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: and then yeah, they got the results did back and 147 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: from her panties they actually got a DNA profile that 148 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: was one in nine point four trillion. 149 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you, Season of Justice, is that not 150 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: an incredible program? 151 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, those guys are amazing. I mean just absolutely. 152 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: Amazing, unbelievable. Yep, we've submitted cases to them as well 153 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: with great results. So again, generosity is just unbelievable. After 154 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: you get the profile on Kathy's case, what happens next? 155 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: I think they had a codis hit and it linked 156 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: to a guy named Bruce Lindell. And he was a well, 157 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: a suspected serial killer and rapist that was working in 158 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: the area in the seventies and eighties, and he's suspected 159 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: to be tied to as many as nine rapes and 160 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: twelve murders and just a kind of a mechanic type 161 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: of a guy. He would have all sorts of different 162 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: techniques that he would use in some of his attacks. Basically, 163 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: sometimes he would disable a victim's car and then as 164 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: they were trying to get us started, he would just 165 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: happen to show up and then he would take advantage 166 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: of them as he was trying to fix their car, 167 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: or sometimes he would disable his own, but either way, 168 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: as a mechanic, he would know how to do all 169 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So, in fact, the case that 170 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: was in a nearby town from North Aurora, one of 171 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: the victims that they know that he was tied to 172 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: he had actually angled the victim with a rubber hose 173 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: from from her car, So that was kind of his 174 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: m O. And it all kind of fit with Kathy's case, 175 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: and so that's kind of how they tied it to him. 176 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: Is even in conjunction with that DNA profile. 177 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: So I'm sure people have figured it out by now. 178 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: But that's who was dead in the apartment that had 179 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: slashed his own thigh. 180 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he had He had actually attacked a young man. 181 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: He had stabbed a young victim that he had just met. 182 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: But in the process of trying to stab that victim, 183 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 2: he actually sliced his own moral artery and then ended 184 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: up bleeding out. So fitting in to just a I 185 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: can't even say it on your show, and I don't 186 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: want to. I don't want to offend anybody. 187 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: I understand, but I mean, what wicked just twist that here. 188 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: Now you have this guy dead in this apartment, turns 189 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: out to be a serial killer with another victim there 190 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: whose male. But now he's connected to all these other 191 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: victims from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty. 192 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's scary when these kind of people, you know, 193 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 2: it's just kind of like the Long Island serial killer. 194 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 2: You know, nobody, nobody suspected that guy, But turns out 195 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 2: he was He was pretty active, and he was pretty demented, 196 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: and even. 197 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: In such a small town, you would think that his 198 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: name would have popped up or somebody would have suspected 199 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: him before his own demise. 200 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: Well, Cheryl, you've studied enough of these cases that you 201 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 2: know that the really good ones, that Jeffrey Dahmer types, 202 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: these guys, they're hiding in plain sight. And you know, 203 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: on when you first meet him, a lot of times 204 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: you just you look at him and you're like, hey, 205 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: this is just a normal dude. But you know it's, uh, 206 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: once the once the sun goes down, maybe I don't know, 207 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: maybe it's one of the moon comes out and the 208 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: wolverine type or the weir wolf comes out of him. 209 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: But I don't know, it's there were a lot of 210 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: people that were really surprised. I mean, and I've heard 211 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: that over and over and over. 212 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: You mentioned, of course obviously DNA and now ancestry. I 213 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: met with one of the doctors at our largest hospital 214 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Grady, and he came by just to see 215 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: what our process was for sexual assault kids and he said, well, 216 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: what all are you saving? And I said, I'm saving everything. 217 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: And the reason I'm saving everything is I never saw 218 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: DNA coming. I never saw ancestry coming, So I sure, 219 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: lord don't know what's coming down next, but I'm saving 220 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: it because whatever is next, I'm going to have that evidence. 221 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: That's smart all all good investigators, do you know, it's 222 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: just a little space in the evidence. 223 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: Room, right, just a little space. Yep. So you've worked 224 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: tons of cases, and I know you've gotten DNA profiles 225 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: off rocks and jump ropes and clothing. Tell us some 226 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: of the most unusual results that you've gotten off what 227 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: type of items? 228 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: Cinder blocks and bricks. I know, in South Carolina during 229 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: the summer of you know, the Peaceful Summer or whatever 230 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: they called that, with all the riots going on, there 231 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 2: was an agency in South Carolina that told their deputies 232 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: that if anybody gets hit with a brick or a 233 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: rock or anything, then put your gloves on and collect it. 234 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: And they collected a brick that had hit an officer 235 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: and back to that and got a full profile of 236 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: some guy out of Seattle. So you know, that's that 237 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: was a cool case. And then I'd just see one 238 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: of the very first cases that really put the m 239 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: back on the map. It was one of the first 240 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: ones that was solved that kind of made even international 241 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: news was the Crystal Bislanowitch case. A lot of people 242 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: have talked about that because it's it's so amazing. You know, 243 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: a river rock in Utah, at least the Provo River, 244 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: which is kind of if you if you know anything 245 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: about Utah on the Wasatch Front, it's that. That's the 246 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: really tall, rocky mountains that are there. Right behind that, 247 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: there's a big ski resort town called Park City, and 248 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: the pro the Provo River kind of winds down from 249 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: the Park City area down into the Hebrew Valley and 250 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: absolute pristine, beautiful river. Anybody loves fly fishing. That is 251 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: a great river. Well, the town on the west side 252 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: of the river is called Midway, incredible little mountaintown, little 253 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: resort town. I think they have a murder about every 254 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 2: five years maybe. And one morning a farmer and his 255 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: son were headed out to go feed the cows, and 256 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 2: they looked over at this pristine river and they saw 257 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 2: a body there, and so they called the Washatch County Sheriff, 258 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 2: and the responding officer was a gentleman named Todd Bonner, 259 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: and he'd been with the force about three years, had 260 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: investigated some narcotics and things like that, but had never 261 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 2: done a homicide. So they brought in a bunch of 262 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: help from Salt Lake City PD and some others and 263 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: they started investigating this case. So, as a CSI, Cheryl, 264 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: here's what they had. Granite rocks that were imagine, jeez, 265 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: I don't know the size of a small tissue box, 266 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: so about ten pounds, so big enough that they could 267 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: cause a lot of damage, but small enough you could 268 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 2: grip it with one hand, so I hope you can 269 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 2: visualize that. 270 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: Yep. 271 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: They these two rocks in particular were obviously had caused 272 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: the majority of the damage and been used to bludgeon 273 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: the victim Crystal. And then there were other rocks that 274 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: had a bunch of blood on them. And then one 275 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 2: rock is about forty pounds that was actually he had 276 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 2: dropped on her head to finish her off, and so 277 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: extremely brutal crime they had. So they had those rocks, 278 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 2: her body which was just completely no clothes or anything, 279 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: and then about six feet away, resting on a kind 280 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: of a flat rock that was just a little little 281 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 2: further up from the river, there was a pair of 282 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 2: folded socks sitting on that on that rock, and that's 283 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: all they had to go on. So deputies combed the area. 284 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 2: They tried to interview what I think one hundred and 285 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: fifty people, anybody that was even remotely close to the 286 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: to the crime scene at the time. They interviewed anybody 287 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: that they could find. They combed miles and miles of 288 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: highway to try to find maybe any discarded clothing, but 289 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 2: basically didn't have anything. So that case went cold nineteen 290 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: ninety five. All that evidence sat in the evidence locker 291 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 2: for basically eighteen years. They pulled it out occasionally once 292 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: they found out, you know, DNA was advancing at the time, 293 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: from the mid nineties to the two thousand's, you know, 294 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: that's when they first started getting into touch DNA, So 295 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 2: they thought, well, maybe they could get try to swab 296 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: those granite rocks and try to get some of the 297 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: touch DNA from where obviously he had ripped it with 298 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 2: his hand and couldn't get much of anything. They'd get 299 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: little blips, but nothing really that would show up that 300 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: would be you know, approbative basically. And then in around 301 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, they learned about the mback and that's when 302 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: we had first pivoted into the forensics and a lab 303 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: called Sorens and Forensics in Salt Lake City had purchased 304 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: the first one and they started contacting all of these 305 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: agencies around and saying, hey, we got this new DNA 306 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: collection tool, let's try it on some of these cases 307 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 2: that you know they failed and basically everything else. So 308 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: Bristol's case was one of the first ones, and they 309 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: collected twenty one nanograms of DNA material. So anybody that's 310 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 2: listening that really understands DNA, you need about a half 311 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 2: a nanogram of cells basically to create a full profile. 312 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: And they collected twenty one nanograms, unbelievable, forty two times 313 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 2: more than what they needed. And this was collected off 314 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: of the granite rocks, so pretty amazing. They they then 315 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 2: loaded uploaded that profile and a codis and it immediately 316 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: hit Joseph Simpson was his name, and he had been 317 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: out of prison only about eight months when he killed Crystal. 318 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: He'd been serving for second degree murder. He'd been served 319 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 2: about ten years and gets out. He's driving limos for 320 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: the ski resorts up there. I don't know what their 321 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 2: vetting process was back then, but they probably need to 322 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 2: enhance that a little bit. But yeah, then, so he 323 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: knew all these fishing spots and all the ski resorts 324 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: and everything, and he knew right alongside the Provo River. 325 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 2: He knew exactly where a good park parking spot was, 326 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: and that's where they were doing it. I mean, Crystal, 327 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 2: it's it's really sad. If you see Crystal's high school 328 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 2: last her last high school I think was her junior year. 329 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: Her high school picture, she was, you know, just like 330 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: Kathy's picture in you know, just a just an all American, 331 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: sweet little girl. But then she got hooked up with 332 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: the wrong guy. But it took him eighteen years and 333 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: they finally were able to solve it. And that was 334 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 2: really one of the very first m back cases that 335 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: that was really hit, you know, went big with the news. 336 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, every time I do a presentation 337 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: on the MBAC, I stole this saying from you, Cheryl, 338 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: So I have to give you full credit, and I 339 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: actually do every time I talk about it. But it's 340 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: what you're saying every case, every tool, every time. 341 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely no doubt about it. You should never say, hey, 342 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: we could do this, but we'll wait, We'll try something 343 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: else first. No, every tool on every case, every time period. 344 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: For you. You have now worked thousands of cases. Are 345 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: there any that still stick with you because you solved 346 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: them or because y'all have not. 347 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: There was one case in particular in Salt Lake that 348 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: it was a gang member that just kind of walked 349 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 2: up and shot a rival gang member and then as 350 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 2: he was running away, he was wearing a hoodie and 351 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: he threw the weapon into a ditch and then peeled 352 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 2: off this sweatshirt and threw that into a ditch. And 353 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: they recovered it the next day, and they tried swabbing 354 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 2: pretty much everywhere and they were just getting like just 355 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: kind of weird mixtures. And then they decided to try 356 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: the imback on it, and so we actually took a 357 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 2: system up there and and helped them kind of learn 358 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: how to how to use it. And then we were 359 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 2: just kind of standing there and helping them, you know, 360 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: make sure they used it correctly, and they, you know, 361 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: they got him. And that was a that was a 362 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 2: pretty cool case because you know, as it's gang gang related, 363 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: stuff is really difficult because there's it's everything's community. You know, 364 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: they share everything, and so they'll share weapons, they'll share clothing, 365 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: and so it's it's it's difficult to just get one 366 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: particular or even just a couple of profiles off of 367 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: something because there's such what you know, what they call 368 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 2: a mixture. And that was that was really early on, 369 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: you know, twenty twelve or twenty thirteen, somewhere around there, 370 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: when we first pivoted into forensics. And yeah, that's always 371 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: made an impression on me, just because I was able 372 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 2: to actually see the m BACK being used on actual evidence. 373 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: Well, I know the first time I was ever aware 374 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: of y'all, and I heard you speak on a case 375 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: that was forty years old, and I was just amazed 376 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: when you started talking about the different types of things 377 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: that you could get DNA off of. It was like 378 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: this whole new world opened up for us, no doubt. 379 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not very many surface types that the m 380 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: BACK can't I can't get DNA from. And it's it's 381 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: it's awesome because even if they do prior methods like 382 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: swabbing or even cuttings, it typically leaves behind a significant 383 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 2: amount of DNA, so the MBAT can actually come back 384 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 2: behind these other methods and still collect from the exact 385 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: same spot and still get magnitudes more. You know, when 386 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: the FBI tested it, they showed that it was up 387 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: to sixty six times more than what the swab would 388 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: originally collect, So, you know, which is sixty six hundred percent. 389 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: And one thing I love about forensics in any case, 390 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a dog in the fight. So the 391 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: MBAT was also used in twenty nineteen to clear a 392 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: wrongly convicted man. 393 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: He was wrongfully convicted and in fact, I kind of 394 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: hinted at that case earlier about the the suspect who 395 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 2: had actually killed Angie Dodge was the victim's name. They 396 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 2: were going to convict somebody, and they ended up convicting 397 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 2: Chris Tap Twenty years later they figured out and amazingly, 398 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 2: to her credit, Angie Dodge's mom, she just wouldn't let 399 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: it go, and she kept visiting Chris in prison, asking 400 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: him who helped him because there were multiple DNA profiles 401 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 2: on her or I'm sorry, there was one DNA profile 402 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 2: and it didn't match Chris. She finally insisted that the 403 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: Idaho Falls police used the mback on Angie's clothing, that 404 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: she was wearing when she was murdered, and find another 405 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: you know, find Chris Taps DNA somewhere on there. And 406 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: because supposedly he wasn't the one that had raped her, 407 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: but supposedly he was the one that was holding her down, 408 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 2: so his DNA would have been on her clothing somewhere. 409 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 2: So when they used the m back and our friend 410 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 2: Francine Bardol was actually the one that did it, m 411 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: backed her sweats t shirt and even her the teddy 412 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: bear that the killer had used to kind of muffle 413 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: Angie's screams and just really thoroughly impact him. Found lots 414 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 2: of DNA and it all matched one person and none 415 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 2: of it was Chris Tap And so based on that, 416 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: and plus the fact that he had already served twenty years, 417 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: they let him out. Of course, then that basically reopened 418 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: the case. So now they have to find out who's 419 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: DNA profile that actually and so then they turned to 420 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: the big basically the genetic genealogy investigative technique, and that's 421 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: when they tracked this guy down in in the Boise area. 422 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: Remarkable, I mean, again, the way the dots are being 423 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: connected with technology and old fashioned police work, the right 424 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: items being collected legally and scientifically. Look what is leading 425 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: to decades later. 426 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so amazing, you know, every single step in 427 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 2: the investigative process. And again, Cheryl, just watching folks like 428 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 2: you work, knowing that, like you said, you may not 429 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: have what you need right now to solve it. But 430 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: by collecting everything and collecting it properly, you know, making 431 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: sure that you're wearing the protective clothing and the mask 432 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: and everything. Someday then a new technology will come around 433 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: and who could have known that, you know, this ancestry 434 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: would eventually lead to solving the Golden State Killer. And 435 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: then from there thousands of ca have't been solved. 436 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: And here's what was really wicked. The MVAT was never 437 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: invented for crime solvent. Tell everybody what your dad. 438 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 2: Did, well, he was a microbiologist. Back in nineteen ninety three, 439 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 2: there was an E Coli outbreak. Some undercooked hamburgers still 440 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 2: had E. Coli in him, and so he recognized that there, 441 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: you know, that's a problem, and so basically figured out 442 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 2: that the upfront collection was was the primary problem. Figured 443 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 2: out how to how to get more aggressive with it, 444 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: you know, getting down on the little nooks and crannies 445 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: where the E. Colei might be might be hiding. And 446 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: so that's kind of how the impact was invented. I 447 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: ran into a college buddy and he was I'd gotten 448 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: into the military, but he got into the FBI, and 449 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 2: I was explaining the MBAC to him in the context 450 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: of collecting E. Coli and he was like, man, that 451 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: would have been amazing on some of my crime scenes. 452 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: On occasion, the light bulb goes off, and we thought, well, 453 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: let's let's go give it a try, and so we 454 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 2: took it to a lab and and when they came 455 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: back and after testing it for us, they said, we've 456 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 2: never seen recoveries like this. This is absolutely amazing. And 457 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 2: they said, by the way, we're buying that machine. So 458 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: they had enough insight to recognize it as a is 459 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 2: it a good tool that could be used especially on 460 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: cold cases. And so they started started reaching out to 461 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: agencies like Salt Lake PD and you know the areas 462 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 2: even down as far as Arizona in place like that, 463 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: and saying, hey, if you have evidence that we haven't 464 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: got a good profile from, let's resubmit it and try 465 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: this new tool on it. So, yeah, it's solved. Solved 466 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 2: some pretty cool cases. 467 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: I'll tell you, it is a different world. It's a 468 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: whole new ball game. 469 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: Honestly, Cheryl, I don't know how anybody could get away 470 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 2: with meeting a heinous crime nowadays. 471 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: Well they got to work a whole lot harder, I 472 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: tell you that, and most of them are not going 473 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: to be able to do it. Look at Coburger. He 474 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: allegedly studied all these different serial killers, and look at 475 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: the mistakes he made, and one of them was leaving 476 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: behind DNA. Jared, I cannot thank you enough for all 477 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,959 Speaker 1: that you do for any agency that needs you. And 478 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: if y'all follow him on social media, you see that 479 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: he is at different police departments in different states and 480 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: different countries all the time. He will literally load up 481 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: that MBAT and come and help you and join in 482 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: the investigation. So I appreciate you. I know what you've 483 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,239 Speaker 1: done in Georgia. I know what you've done for some 484 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: of our cold cases at the institute across the country. 485 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you've gone to North Carolina for me, You've 486 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: gone to Florida obviously Georgia. You've gone to different states, 487 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: and you know worked some cases. Is that we didn't 488 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: have anything without you, so thank you so much, Jared. 489 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 2: Well, honestly, working with folks like you, you know, Prime 490 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: and SEE investigators, detectives, DNA analysts, you just consummate professionals. 491 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: It's I've done a lot of things in my life, 492 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: and I'll tell you there's nothing it's as rewarding as 493 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: getting a phone call from somebody like Cheryl Mack and 494 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: you would not believe what happened. And to me, that's 495 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: that makes everything worth it. 496 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: And I love to make those phone calls, Sugar, y'all. 497 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I 498 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: always do with a quote, the m VAT can vacuum 499 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty six times more than a swam 500 00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: cap Jared Bradley, President of the MVAT System. I'm Cheryl McCollum, 501 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven. HM.