1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Stephen Carroll and 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: this is Here's Why, where we take one new story 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: and explain it in just a few minutes with our 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: experts here at Bloomberg Wellyam. China, the Philippines, Malaysia and 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: Vietnam all have overlapping claims and its massive waterway. Beijing, 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: though has claimed nearly all of it. 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: They have always seen this area as part of their 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 2: historical territory from the Han dynasty until now, and Philippines 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: claim for it in the Chinese eyes is something that 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: is very recent. 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 3: Here, yes, which are now being contested by China. 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: We're not contested by them. Unbuilt geological findings showed that 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: there might be natural gush. 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: It's clearly something that has led to a diplomatic issue. 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 3: Whether it's going to lead to further skirmishes militarily and 16 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 3: god forbid any fatalities is yet to be seen. 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: The seas around China can be rough, literally and politically. 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Beijing has long standing territorial claims to various waters off 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: its coast. They've led to tensions with Japan, Taiwan, the 20 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: Philippines and others. China's Coast Guard has become an increasingly 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: important expression of these ambitions. Here's why China uses its 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: coast Guard to push territorial claims. Our China Defense reporter 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: Josh Hiao joins us now for more. Firstly, Josh, what 24 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: are the key territorial claims that China makes over the 25 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: seas around. 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: Its coast So there are three major claims that we 27 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: typically look at. One thing is, of course, the South 28 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: China Sea is one of China's most extensive claims, Chinese 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: claiming almost the entirety of the South China Sea. These 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: waters of course hosts fishery and energy resources, and at 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: the same time it's a water body that we see 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: overlapping claims from the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, and even Taiwan. 33 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: So it's really a very crowded area. And then we 34 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: move on to the East China Sea. They're China, Japan, 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: and Taiwan again claim the Delhi Islands also known in 36 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: Japan as the and CaCO Islands. So it's a group 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: of five uninhabited islands administered by Japan, but tensions app 38 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: and flow around those waters and islands. And then, lastly, 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: of course, then there's Taiwan, self ruled democracy that Beijing 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: seas as part of its territory, but Taiwan insists that 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: it has its own. 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: Rules, so lots to consider. Let's talk about the use 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: of the coast guard. How does China use its coast 44 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: guard and how has that role evolved. 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: So China's coast Guard performs many of the same functions 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: as as global counterparts. So you think about intercepting smuggling vessels, 47 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: investigating marine perusian, combating illegal fishing, and carrying out such 48 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: and rescue missions. But then at the same time, its 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: road has expanded far beyond these traditional law enforcement areas. 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: Beijing is increasingly relying on the coast Guard rather than 51 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: the Navy. Also its territorial claims. They're doing patrols in waters, 52 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: they are escorting Chinese fishing fleets. They are even boarding 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: foreign vessels and sometimes using coursive tactics as we've seen 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: in the clash with the Philippines, firing of water cannons, 55 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: shining of military grade lasers, and sometimes they will use 56 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: the good old fashioned you know, stick and just hit 57 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: each other. So they resort to all of these tactics 58 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: to sort of challenge the activities of other countries in 59 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: those contested wars. 60 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: So what sort of resources does the Coast Guard have 61 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: to be able to carry out these duties. 62 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: As of twenty six according to the estimates by double Doublest, 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: it has ninety one patrol ships. That's up from twenty sixteen. 64 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: Some seventy one patrol ships, and some of its patrol 65 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: vessels can displace more times than most countries heavi as destroyers. 66 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: He also has a few landing ships and some logistics 67 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: and support vehicles, But the patrol ships really form the 68 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: majority of its fleet. 69 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that count from the naternata and ship for 70 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: strategic studies. Why then does China use the Coast Guard 71 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: for these kind of duties and not the Navy? 72 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: Right, So the reasons there are two fold. One thing 73 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: is that using Coast Guard vessels is less provocative than 74 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: navy because it gives China the ability to argue that 75 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: it was just conducting routine law enforcement even when the 76 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: other countries see its actions as threatening or illegal. But 77 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: it's not as supposedly provocative using the Navy. It also 78 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: feeds into this tactic, which we call the gray zone 79 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: tactic or grey zone operations whereby you are displaying your 80 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: effective administration over the waters that you claim. But then 81 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: it's sort like forcing between peace and war. So it 82 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: makes it a little bit more awkward for those other 83 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 2: countries to respond to the coast guard presence. 84 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about what those other 85 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: countries are doing in response. How are we seeing them 86 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: follow up to these moves by China. 87 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 2: So one thing is for Philippines alone, which really have 88 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 2: been involved in a lot of these clashes with Beijing 89 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: in the South China Sea. For the Philippines, it has 90 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: been trying to expand its fleets of Coast Guard vessels 91 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: and at the same time, the Philippines is also linking 92 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: up with other neighboring countries to slft heedback at Beijing's claims. 93 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: So we've seen the coastguards of Taiwan and Japan last 94 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: year agreed to expand joint training. The Philippines is also 95 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: working with Taiwan as well to ramp up their training 96 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: as well. And then most recently, like from the wave 97 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: of clashes, the US, Japan, and Philippines have actually conducted 98 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 2: a joint drill in the waters to self demonstrate their 99 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: resolution against Beijing. 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit more about Taiwan, because this 101 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: is a special case in the context of the geopolitical 102 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: tensions in the region. How is Taiwan responding to this 103 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: use of the coastguards. 104 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 2: Taiwan believes that in a scenario where the Chinese military 105 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,239 Speaker 2: were to invade Taiwan, a blockade would be enforced lightly 106 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: by the coast Guard to prevent firm vessels from coming 107 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: to taipease aid, and the coast Guard will be able 108 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: to escort Chinese vessels as well, and the Coast Guard 109 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: would also be able to work with the military in 110 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: terms of enforcing the blockade of amphibious lending campaigns. So 111 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: that's the road that the coast Guard would play in 112 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: a hypothetical invasion scenario. And right now what we are 113 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: observing to the east of Taiwan is that there's a 114 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: more institutionalized presence of Chinese vessels, official vessels, including the 115 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: Coast Guard, including those from Chinese ministries, and together these 116 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: vessels really forms expansion of China's grades on tactic because 117 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 2: previously they don't really operate in those waters. And I 118 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: think the Coast Guard's presence in those waters is alarming 119 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: in the sense that they are sort of asserting their 120 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 2: sovereignty in those waters, which then by rat includes Taiwan 121 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: as well, and they are also questioning ships that are 122 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: passing by in the enforcement of their sovereignty. Of course, 123 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: Taiwan maintained that, you know, those four ships should then 124 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 2: answer to Chinese coastcuss curies because they don't have the 125 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 2: legal rights on those waters. But from a foreign ships perspective, 126 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: it's better to just answer to those questions than not, 127 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: you know, so as not to attract any trouble. But 128 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: in debt, implicity has lent itself to the credibility all 129 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: the legitimacy of Chinese presencing those waters. 130 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: It's a really fascinating story and one being watched closely 131 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: across the region. Josh thank you very much for bringing 132 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: us details of this, Joshiao or China Defense Reporter. For 133 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: more explanations like this from our team of three thousand 134 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: journalists and analysts around the world, go to Bloomberg dot 135 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: com slash explainers. I'm Stephen Carroll. This is here's why. 136 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with more. Thanks for listening.