1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading. 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: name is no they call me Ben. 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: We're joined as always with our super producer Andrew Treyforce Howard. 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 3: Most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. We're recording on December sixteenth. 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 3: There are just fifteen days to the new year. As 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 3: the Gregorian calendar, which is kind of an up and 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 3: coming trend, reckons the passage of time. Guys, can you 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 3: believe it? There's always been a time or reflection. But 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 3: like looking back on this gear, I think we've had 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: some ups and downs, but hopefully we've had more ups 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 3: than downs. 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 4: As a people, as a as a country, as individuals, 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 4: all three, perhaps all the above. Ben, I gotta say 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 4: that you're bearing the lead a little bit. You typically 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 4: put a lovely quote at the top of these outlines, 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 4: and you got a banger of one up top today. 22 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 5: I'm gonna have to insist that you read. I'm gonna 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 5: have to insist that you read it. 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: That's too kind. All right, Well, with your permission, fellow 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, you won't be one of those bastards who 26 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: says Christmas is what's year and it's a fraud. It's not. 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 3: It can happen every day. You've just gotta want that feeling. 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: And if you like it and you want it, you'll 29 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: get greedy for it. You'll want it every day of 30 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 3: your life, and it can happen to you. I believe 31 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: in it now. I believe it's gonna happen to me. 32 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 3: Now I'm ready for it. 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 5: Turkey's for everyone. 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 4: This is, of course, from the Seminole holiday classic film Scrooged. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 4: I watched this for the first time in many years 36 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 4: last Christmas, and I also gave you my heart, and 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 4: I gotta say, guys, I think it's a bit of 38 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 4: a metaphor for late stage capitalism being great. 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 6: Even this quote that you just read, it's like, let's 40 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 6: be greedy for Christmas and love and joy and good. 41 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 5: It just is all about how you frame it. 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 3: I pulled the one part of the monologue that speaks 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: coherently because I feel a lot of it was improvised 44 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: by our buddy Murray. Uh, and a lot of it 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: is him sounding like a Wall Street capitalist mid No. 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, and even what you put in here, it's got 47 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 5: that feeling for sure. 48 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 4: But did you guys get that vibe about the film that, 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 4: like the thesis at the end, is very much giving. 50 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 6: A pass to the stage capitalist. Remember I say what 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 6: no way, I mean, I just wanted to be explicit 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 6: about it. It's just, yeah, have you seen that scrooged 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 6: of late? 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: I have. 55 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 2: I it's it's well of late. Yes, it's been a minute, 56 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: but I. 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 5: Have seen screw. 58 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 4: I'm not saying it's not a banger of a fun movie, 59 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 4: but Fodcat gold Tway. 60 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a better I don't know 61 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 2: that whole like, let's be greedy for Christmas to me 62 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: is better than you know, delay and I defend too whatever. 63 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: I'm just saying. 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 5: The true Father Christmas, I'm just saying I'm down. 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: I'm more down, I think with let's just give everything 66 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: away rather than let's take take take tic take. 67 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: We're also going to find too. One of the one 68 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: of the things that Frank Cross gets to and Scrooge 69 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: towards the very end is this idea that perhaps the 70 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: specific date of Christmas doesn't matter as much as merchandising 71 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: would like you to believe. 72 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 5: The way merchandising makes you feel, not the feeling so 73 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 5: you can be a. 74 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: Good person on a Tuesday. 75 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 4: I am so sorry, guys. Last thing on Scrooge does 76 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 4: in the world of Scrooge? Does a Christmas Carol by 77 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: Charles Dickens exist? Do they discuss it as a piece 78 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 4: of intellectual property existing in the world of that film? 79 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? 80 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, the whole thing is a show 81 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 3: within a show. 82 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 4: Right, of course they do the show and they're doing 83 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 4: a Christmas Carol, but of course everything aligns to the 84 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 4: actual ghosts that visit Ebenezer Scrooge, just. 85 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: Staple the antlers on. Would you call that, you know 86 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: what I mean? 87 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 5: Would you call that religious syncretism? 88 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 4: Ben? 89 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 3: I would. But I'm maybe not the best example, Noel, 90 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: because I have long argued that capitalism and our current 91 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: concept of economy is indeed a religion, and I've lost 92 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: the probably the most popular one in the world currently. 93 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: And look, you know, we're we're checking back right in 94 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 3: this historical time of introspection. What has passed? What is passing? 95 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: What has yet to come. Human society is always celebrated 96 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 3: around this time, partially because a lot of people died 97 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 3: when they ran out of food and it was like 98 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: really really cold. Yes, yeah, and through a great game 99 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 3: of telephone. Right now around this time of years, the 100 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 3: Gregorian calendar measures it. Christmas is one of the most 101 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: popular holidays on the planet. It's so popular that whether 102 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: or not you celebrate, whether or not you consider yourself Christian, 103 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: unless you live on North Sentinel Island, you have probably 104 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 3: heard of Christmas. It commemorates one of the most famous 105 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: birthdays in all of history, a guy named Jesus of Nazareth, who, 106 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 3: according to adherents of Christianity, is believed to be the Messiah. 107 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 3: But our question here is what if we don't know 108 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: the full story? When was Jesus Christ actually born. 109 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: Let's dive in to this historical mystery after we get 110 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: our Q four numbers in order we'll be repick. 111 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 3: Here are the facts, all right, This is doubtlessly familiar 112 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 3: to many of us in the audience tonight, unless you're 113 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 3: part of the growing demographic of folks on North Sentinel 114 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 3: Islands who love stuff They don't want you to know 115 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 3: seven by my current counts, I'm manifesting it, you guys. 116 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: So they're like, I think we all have on this show. 117 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: We've encountered Christianity in some capacity, whether or not we 118 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 3: consider ourselves specifically Christian. You know, many of us listening 119 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 3: along tonight do in one capacity to one degree or another. 120 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: So it's no secret that varying denominations or sex of 121 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: Christianity agree on the large points of the story of 122 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: Jesus Christ right, especially the death and in the beginning. 123 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 3: But they disagree on doctrine, and they disagree on some 124 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 3: of the specifics surrounding the narrative of Jesus Christ's birthday 125 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: or the first one, the Nativity. So maybe we stick 126 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: with the high level basic stuff for now. We don't 127 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: want to stir the pot too much. This is what 128 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 3: all Christianity largely agrees upon, and he comes from only 129 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 3: two sources, the Gospels of Matthew, not our matt a 130 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: different one and Luke. 131 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: Yes, that is correct. And you have heard this story. 132 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: You've likely seen it in a manger scene driving by 133 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: a church. It is depicted symbolically there like very literally 134 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: symbolically in those major scenes. By the way, guys. As 135 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: a young and I've said this before on the show, 136 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: as a little tiny baby, I did play baby Jesus 137 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: in a manger. Christian parents, you are such a Snookham's Yeah, 138 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: But the story that we know is that Jesus Christ 139 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: was born in a manger on and it is often 140 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: said and celebrated on the twenty fifth. 141 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: Of December in the Gregorian calendar exactly. So that's the 142 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: other thing, right, Yeah, Jesus is born in a manger. 143 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: For any etymology fans, a lot of people might assume 144 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: a manger is a barn. The manger is the troth 145 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 3: where animals feed, which is by the barn where you 146 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 3: keep the livestock. And this manger, this barn situation is 147 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: in a town called Bethlehem. The child is born to 148 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: two parents, an itinerant carpenter named Joseph and his wife Mary. 149 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,599 Speaker 3: Joseph is somehow descended from King David. There are a 150 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: couple of unique factors involved in this birth. It's not 151 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: the first barn birth and history by any means, but 152 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: Joseph is Jesus's earthly father figure. Jesus himself is the 153 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: result of what's called immaculate conception, meaning that Mary was 154 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: essentially impregnated by divine forces usually called the Holy Spirit 155 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: and a lot of translations, making him the literal son 156 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: of God. And you can see this in stuff like 157 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: Matthew one eighteen Luke one thirty five. That's one of 158 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: the points they agree on. You should be familiar with 159 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 3: the Nativity scenes. I remember having to act in several 160 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 3: of those. It's always fun, you know what I mean, 161 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 3: Because often churches will have a bunch of the kids 162 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: or the youth group do the Nativity play, and I 163 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 3: still like watching them, you know what I mean. I 164 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 3: don't think it'd be fair for me to be in 165 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 3: one now because I'd be taking a role from a child, 166 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: But but I do think it's always a good show. 167 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 4: I think I was a shepherd of some stripe at 168 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 4: some point, wearing a big fake beard as a child, 169 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 4: which is always delightful to behold. 170 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: I've played, this is true everyone at some Nativity play. 171 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: I've played everyone except for Mary Ah. 172 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: That is so awesome. Still time then we three Kings 173 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: of Oriental, so I did that when I had again 174 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 2: when I was based. I love it, guys. Let's just 175 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 2: point out the tradition here of God's impregnating mortals. 176 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: It's a very It's not in originals. 177 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,479 Speaker 5: Oh no, it's all over Greek mythology. 178 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially Zeus. 179 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 5: Zeus really and the Swan and all that. 180 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but Zeus was stealthy chicks left and right. 181 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: Much, I know. But it is just an interesting concept here, right, 182 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 2: I mean this, this first idea that we encounter is 183 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: it is magical in a lot of different ways. Right, 184 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: some force impregnated a woman that had nothing to do 185 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: with the ways that we are aware humans can conceive. 186 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: In an important distinction. And I love this because this 187 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: feels like an allusion to the work of Joseph Campbell 188 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: or Fraser's The Golden beow This, which are great reads 189 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 3: if you're into folklore seminal works. What I would say 190 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 3: differentiates this origin story from other stories of what would 191 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: be called demi gods outside of Christianity is that it 192 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 3: is heavily implied. This is consensual. That is not the 193 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 3: case in a lot of other stories, which by the way, 194 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 3: are one to one beat for beat story wise, what 195 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 3: you would call alien abductions today. 196 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I reference the Leah and the Swan story. 197 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 5: I had to google to make sure I wasn't just 198 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 5: making that up, but it was. 199 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 4: Well, let's gree when Zeus came down from Olympus and 200 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 4: seduced and impregnated Lead a Spartan queen. 201 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 5: In the form of a swan. I want to know 202 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 5: how they worked. 203 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 3: Seduced is doing a lot of heavy lifting in translation 204 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 3: there there might be an R word involved, not sound well, there's. 205 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: A lot of wing flapping. 206 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 3: I don't know. 207 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: I can imagine swan. 208 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 5: Dudes don't have one. 209 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 4: Swans don't have penises, though they have like a don't 210 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 4: they have like a kloaca situation or like it's they 211 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 4: don't have penis. Yeah, so how could you impregnate a 212 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 4: human woman in the form of a swan. There's a 213 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 4: lot of I'm sorry, I'm like getting hung up on 214 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 4: the magical pallas, which. 215 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 3: Is their equivalent of a penis that goes into the kloake. 216 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: I see, but they're not all corkscrewy like the ducks, 217 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: right or they because. 218 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 5: Ducks are, or at least Zeus swans. 219 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, ducks very much are this So going back 220 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 3: to this guy Jesus, he was or is if you like, 221 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: depending on your your personal beliefs Galilean from Nazareth, and 222 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: Nazareth is this valley, which is near one of the 223 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 3: two big cities in Galilee. Sophorists during this time, during 224 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: the time that Joseph and Mary are figuring this stuff 225 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 3: out and expecting this kid, there's a real pos, a 226 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 3: real pill, an absolute heel named King Herod, who controls 227 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: the area, controls Judea, and the Gospel of Luke tells 228 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: us that God sent an angel, a pretty famous angel Gabriel, 229 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 3: to Earth, and according to Luke, the angel goes to 230 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 3: Mary and says, look, you're gonna advocate e'xci me. Awesome. 231 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 3: It's a son of God. You're gonna name him Jesus. 232 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 3: Are we good? Because I have a three fifteen? Yeah? 233 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Ben, you bring up a really interesting point. 234 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 4: I don't think I ever really clocked the implication of consents. 235 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 4: So you're saying that it is depicted as the angel 236 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 4: Gabriel basically saying is this all right? Or was it 237 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 4: more of just I'm just giving you, doing you a 238 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 4: solid and giving you a heads up that this is 239 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 4: coming your way. 240 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's implied as a great gift, show great favor. Therefore, 241 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 3: implying that there's implying but not explicitly stating that, unlike 242 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: a Zeus situation, there was consent. It's weird. We'll get 243 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: into Mythris and other contemporary messiahs as well. But here's 244 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 3: the pickle of it. If you go to the Gospel 245 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: of Matthew, Gabriel shows up to Joseph and says, bro 246 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 3: I gotta lay some awesome news on you, and he 247 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 3: says the same thing. Unfortunately, though, however the events transpire, 248 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: these heavenly gifts do not automatically equate to earthly comfort. 249 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 3: Joseph and Mary are not one percent there by no 250 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: means wealthy or wealth to do, despite Joseph being descended 251 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 3: from King David. 252 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 4: I mean, the implication there always seemed to me is 253 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 4: that's sort of like was the intention of of the 254 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 4: Son of God to come from the most humble beginnings 255 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 4: and grow up and live not as some sort of 256 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 4: god among men or worshiped exactly and the way you 257 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: might think of other messiah stories, but you know, living 258 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 4: a humble life, you know, among the people. 259 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 3: And we're obviously we're talking about this from a academic 260 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: folkloric perspective. We're we're giving you the stories as they exist, 261 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: with then diagrams and differences. 262 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, I'm looking back at Luke with just the 263 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: what's written in here about this whole conception thing, and 264 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: it is really interesting. It's interesting in Luke because the 265 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: only answer that Mary gives as the as the angels 266 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: like laying all this pretty heavy, stuffy her is I 267 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: am the Lord's servant, like you fill right right, whatever 268 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: I can do to help? Well, yeah, exactly, But at 269 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: the same time it's I don't. 270 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 4: Know, is that consent though, or is that just like 271 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 4: I will take one for the team because I don't 272 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 4: feel like I have a choice. 273 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 5: I don't know it. It's sort of pointless to. 274 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, a human resource department in pretty much any company 275 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: would take this opportunity to talk about how discrepancy and 276 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 3: power and position. 277 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 5: It's a little angel telling you this is the best 278 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 5: thing that's ever happened. You're like, okay, okay. 279 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 3: It sounds ritings like that on a slightly smaller level, 280 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 3: slightly lower stakes. So all right, Joseph and Mary, despite 281 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: being favored by God, are having a tough time down 282 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 3: in the dirt and the mud with all the other 283 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: Plebeian humans. As the birth of Jesus Christ draws near, 284 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: his parents have to travel to Bethlehem. They don't live 285 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 3: in Bethlehem. Hey, Bethlehem is the ancient city of King David. 286 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 3: And according to Luke, there's this census going on, which 287 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: means Joseph has to travel back to Bethlehem for this 288 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 3: Roman decreed census. They don't have the best socioeconomic status. 289 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 3: We can only imagine a lot of other people had 290 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 3: to come back to town. So town is crowded, you 291 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: know what I mean. It's a dragon con super Bowl situation. 292 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: There's not a lot of places to stay. They're very expensive. 293 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 3: So this aspiring couple has to lay their infant in 294 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 3: a manger. And when they do, the just important side note, 295 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 3: the angels don't show up to any innkeeper and say 296 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 3: you gotta let these folks sleep inside. The angels show 297 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 3: up after they get to the barn, and after Mary 298 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 3: gives birth to Jesus in this troth, and then they 299 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 3: announce his birth to a group of shepherds. And I 300 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 3: have to wonder, gentlemen, did any of the shepherds or 301 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 3: the wise men experience something like a third man factor? 302 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 3: That's an interesting you know what I mean, guided by angels. 303 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 4: I mean, that's the thing about all of this, these 304 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 4: kind of stories and the providence of them is like, 305 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 4: you know, is there. 306 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 5: Divine intervention? 307 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: You know? 308 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 5: Is this word of mouth? Is there some sort of 309 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 5: psychosis involved? Like, I just it's a lot of questions. 310 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we just. 311 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 2: It's a tough thing to say because it is about belief. 312 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,479 Speaker 2: But this is a story. It was written down, right 313 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 2: by several accounts, but it was written down and it's 314 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 2: lasted a long time, but it has certainly survived a 315 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: whole bunch of scrutiny, Yeah, scrutiny, but also iterations, translations. 316 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 5: So it's just, you know, it's still prime I p 317 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 5: after all these years. 318 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 3: Yes, and copyright free. 319 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 5: That doesn't help, doesn't it? 320 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: It does help a bit. Look, as we said, these 321 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 3: are the bones of the story that informs the Nativity 322 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: scenes you see in countless plays, reenactments at your local church, 323 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 3: or dioramas, perhaps in someone's household. But different groups, again 324 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 3: might not always agree on the specifics, and it might 325 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 3: surprise some of us in the audience tonight to learn 326 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: the disagreements started early on, pretty much from the jump 327 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 3: the two sources, the two sources that Christianity considers actual 328 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 3: sources on this, the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. They 329 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 3: agree on the large strokes, the brushstrokes of the story, 330 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 3: but they disagree on a ton of other details. And this, 331 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 3: I would argue, is the sand that creates the pearl here. 332 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 3: This is the thing that further distorts as time goes 333 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 3: on the fact that these two works from the jump 334 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 3: disagreed on some things, like Joseph is more in the 335 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 3: spotlight in the Gospel of Matthew, and Mary takes a 336 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 3: lot of the spotlight in the Gospel of Luke in Matthew. 337 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 3: As we said, Angel speaks to Joseph Luke, Angel speaks 338 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 3: to Mary. I think it would have made a little 339 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 3: more sense for the Angel to set them both down. 340 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: But I wasn't in the writer's room for this one. Well, 341 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 3: it is a writer's room type question. 342 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 4: I was wondering, like to Matthew and Luke, like have 343 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 4: a falling out or something like did they skiz him 344 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 4: and have some sort of like public disagreement. 345 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 5: And I can find a thing about that. 346 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 4: But there are other discrepancies between their gospels in terms 347 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 4: of like genealogy and lineage and various things pertaining to 348 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 4: other major players in these kinds of biblical tales. 349 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: Well, so, just really quickly, let's talk about the difference 350 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: in those two scenarios. Man and woman in a relationship. 351 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 2: They have not consummated this marriage. I suppose as Mary 352 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: is a virgin at least according to both books, and 353 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 2: an angel comes to the man and says, hey, your wife, 354 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 2: who is a virgin is going to give birth to 355 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 2: the Son of God. What is that conversation like then 356 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 2: with Mary? Hey, Mary, guess what got some news for you? 357 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: Or and in the opposite direction, Mary says, hey, God 358 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 2: to me. So having a baby, just the human aspect 359 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 2: of it is very interesting to me. In the concept 360 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: of how they handled that, I would say, probably very 361 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 2: strange situation. If nothing else right. 362 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 3: That's been extremely diplomatic. Yeah, because you know we we 363 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: hear it all the time. What would you do if 364 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 3: you were in a relationship and your partner came to 365 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 3: you and said, hey, I know we haven't slept together, 366 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 3: but there is as a kid on the way, and 367 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 3: I just need you to believe me it's a good thing. Yeah, 368 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 3: And I did not shoot on you yeah, yeah, at all. 369 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 2: It's just that guy there, like that old. 370 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: Meme from a little while back. It's above me, you know, 371 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 3: I'm just relaying what the uppers are saying. These differences 372 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 3: in genealogy, these differences in timeline and itinerary, vague as 373 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 3: they may be, they seem very small differences at the beginning, 374 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: But as will witness, these differences create further differences in 375 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 3: the great game of telephone. And for thousands of years, 376 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: despite the immediate discrepancies, people tended to triangulate what they 377 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 3: saw as the true story. They would look at Matthew 378 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 3: and Luke. They would do a Venn diagram. Where do 379 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 3: these guys agree, And let's take the sum of the 380 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 3: stuff these gospels do agree on, and we'll call that 381 00:22:59,000 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 3: the truth. 382 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: That's yeah, yeah, I mean, And it's interesting too when 383 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 2: you switch between like new International version of the Bible 384 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: and King James and some of the other newer, even 385 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: newer versions of the Bible. Yeah, and just how those 386 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: small language changes in both of those sections of the 387 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 2: Bible really do, at least in my mind, alter the 388 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: meaning just enough. And that thing you're saying like almost 389 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 2: almost like the lens in front of it just tilts 390 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: slightly as you read through it. 391 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 3: It's weird. 392 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 4: One thing that I also found is that Mark apparently 393 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 4: came first of Matthew, Mark and Luke. And it's kind 394 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 4: of understood that that's the case because a lot of 395 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 4: biblical scholars have analyzed all three of them and found 396 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 4: that Luke and Matthew actually take stuff from Mark and 397 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 4: kind of make edits and sort of decide things to 398 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 4: include and remove some of the maybe more out there 399 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 4: bits from Mark and kind of give it their own spin. 400 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 3: It was a wild mixtape back in the day Fellas 401 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 3: pre Nicea and so on. But the important part for 402 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 3: our purpose is Mark will come in later. Right now, 403 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 3: the only biblical basis for the Nativity are the Gospels 404 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: of Matthew and Luke. Mark is not talking about this stuff. 405 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 3: And today, most Christians will celebrate the Birth of Jesus 406 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 3: Christ on December twenty fifth in the Gregorian calendar here 407 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 3: in the United States. A lot of people who don't 408 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 3: consider themselves Christians will still celebrate aspects of Christmas because, frankly, 409 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 3: it's just a fun time. You like parties, you like 410 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: cool decorations, you like giving and getting gifts. 411 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you like pointy red hats with white trim. 412 00:24:52,960 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: Let's go right. You heard about eggnog my guy, So 413 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 3: and there's not necessarily I mean, if you're not hurting anybody, 414 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: do as thou wilt. In centuries past, though this was 415 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 3: much more serious. It was considered downright sacrilegious, heretical to 416 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 3: raise too many concerns about these possible discrepancies, or were 417 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 3: certain details of the origin story. How did a person 418 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 3: get from point A to point set right? What was 419 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 3: the cycle of the moon, etcetera, etcetera dangerous questions. In 420 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 3: more recent times, fellow conspiracy realist scholars, historians, theologians, other 421 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 3: experts have been wrestling with this conversation. Anew a lot 422 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 3: of forensic science is going into this. They're asking themselves, 423 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 3: when was Jesus Christ actually born? We can try to 424 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: answer it after a word from our sponsors. Here's where 425 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: it gets crazy. The first thing we can do to 426 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 3: answer this question is assure you, weirdly enough, it was 427 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 3: almost certainly not December twenty fifth. It was like ninety 428 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 3: nine point eight percent not December twenty fifth. 429 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's it certainly seems like a weird time, or 430 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: maybe a poor choice of a time to be traveling 431 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: around pretty long distances because of the temperature, because of 432 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: the temperature, the weather, the time of year, Like, it's 433 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: just the nights are extremely long around this time, the 434 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: longest of the entire year. 435 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 4: Well yeah, and I mean, and it kind of just 436 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 4: reinforces this whole idea that maybe this isn't really based 437 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 4: on actual calendar reality or historical accuracy, and much more 438 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 4: the product of, like, let's figure out a smart place 439 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 4: to slot this holiday and for other purposes that might 440 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 4: benefit the new people in charge. 441 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, it's a terrible time to travel, and 442 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 3: there are some intervening variables. We would say, in Catholic 443 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 3: and Protestant traditions, Christmas is December twenty fifth. However, in 444 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 3: other equally Christian traditions, the birthday is totally different. In 445 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 3: Orthodox Christianity, you know, shout out to Russia, Greece, Egypt, 446 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 3: et cetera, Jesus's birth is celebrated on January sixth or 447 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: January seventh. But this all did not happen until centuries 448 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 3: and centuries after the fact. Please check out our companion 449 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: episode on Ridiculous History. Jesus christ birthday was the latest 450 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 3: birthday ever or something like that. I can't remember what 451 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 3: what do we call it? Latest birthday party? Just sort 452 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 3: of latest birthday party? Yeah, that was it. To check 453 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 3: it out, we know, the first mention of a date 454 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 3: for Christmas is like two hundred CE. If that the 455 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 3: earliest celebrate rations were two fifty the three hundred CE. 456 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: Uh. 457 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 3: People still don't even agree on when those dates became 458 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 3: common in Christian tradition. And that is because of this. 459 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 3: Neither of these gospels, Matthew nor Luke believe it or not. 460 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 3: Neither of them at any point specifically name a day, 461 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 3: a month, or even a year for the birth. That's weird, eh, 462 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 3: That's like say, hey, I'll always remember, you know, when 463 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 3: my kid was born, and let me tell you a 464 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 3: story about how tough it was to get to the hospital. 465 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 3: And then they say, oh yeah, round, when did that happen? 466 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: And you go out of time, no idea. 467 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: Quid, oh wow, okay, get him out of here, get 468 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: him out. I'm calling conscious you guys. So they don't 469 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: do it. Yeah something years yeah, yeah, thirty three they 470 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 3: see so again, the Gospel of Luke is the most specific, 471 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 3: it's the most in depth. That has these references to 472 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 3: historical rulers from the Roman Empire. Luca is the guy 473 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 3: who mentions the census, but they still fail to name specifics. 474 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 3: When the wake of this, people collectively Christians and some 475 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 3: of their enemies have to improvise. They guesstimate, and then 476 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 3: they start arguing what makes the most sense to them. 477 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: December twenty fifth, no January sixth, let's split up right. 478 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 4: The vast majority of Biblical historians usually agree that while 479 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 4: it's fine to celebrate on the twenty fifth of December, 480 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 4: pretty much is a consensus that this was not Jesus's 481 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 4: actual birthday. I also, I don't know, guys, did you 482 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 4: grow up. I mean, maybe when you're younger it's different. 483 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 4: But I've never really fully thought that this was meant 484 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 4: to be Jesus's actual I don't even think they pushed 485 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 4: that narrative in my Methodist church. 486 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: No, that Methodist church here too. It wasn't a big deal. 487 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: It was this is this is the time that we 488 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: celebrate from the story that the you know, the birth 489 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: of the Son of God, and we just. 490 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 3: Do it now. Yeah, Methodist is Methodism is a very 491 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 3: moderate denomination. When you look at the vast span or 492 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 3: Christian thought. Right, there are doubtlessly many other denominations or 493 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: sex that feel the date is incredibly important. I will 494 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 3: never forget. Many many years ago, I was in an 495 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: argument outside of a church with someone saying that the 496 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 3: King James Bible is the only authoritative Christian work because 497 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 3: it's written in English. 498 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems to be a little bit of an oversimplification, perhaps, Yeah, 499 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 5: a little codd bias. 500 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 3: It was a weird time. It was far before the 501 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 3: internet and the telephone, those things. So this brings us 502 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 3: to another weird callindrical. I don't want to call it 503 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 3: a conspiracy just yet, but the year one thing in 504 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 3: the Gregorian calendar, it's supposed to be based on the 505 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 3: year that Jesus Christ is born. That is also almost 506 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 3: certainly wrong. And we have to thank a guy we've 507 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 3: been shouting out a lot recently, awesome name bad at 508 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 3: math Dionysus Exegus's a sixth century monk. He's the first 509 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 3: guy to calculate the year of Jesus's birth, and a 510 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 3: lot of people in the modern era, including folks like 511 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 3: Pope Benedict, who's somewhat in an authority on the matter, 512 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 3: that would be Pope Benedict sixteen. I want to say, yeah, 513 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 3: he even agrees that Dionysus, for one reason or another 514 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 3: miscounted when he was doing his ear forensics, and Jesus 515 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 3: Christ was likely born between what we would call seven 516 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 3: BCE and two CE, but definitely not year one that 517 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 3: was that was Dionysus. 518 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. 519 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 4: Of course, errors like that kind of replicate and compound 520 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 4: over time. 521 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 3: Right M Yeah. 522 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 523 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 3: Another complication to your point, Noel. The Bible mentions in 524 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 3: several places that Jesus was born when that that real 525 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 3: pos Herod the Great was king of Judea. But if 526 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 3: you go to other scholars, like Flavius Josephus, what a 527 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 3: great name. It was a great name. I had a 528 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: you know, I had a gerbil named Flavius, and he 529 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 3: was not as cool as this guy. Uh. Flavius Josephus 530 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 3: was a Roman Jewish historian who lived in the first 531 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 3: century CE. H. He is the guy who says, oh, 532 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 3: King Herod. Yeah, that guy kicked the bucket back in 533 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 3: four BCE. 534 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 4: And let's not confuse Flavius Josephus with the incredible rapper 535 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 4: Flava Flavius Josephus, Oh. 536 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, find him on band camp. 537 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, he's big. He's also really good on reality shows. 538 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 3: And so according to according to this guy, if we're 539 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 3: putting well, if we're putting faith in Flavius, we have 540 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 3: to then conclude that Jesus was born at least four 541 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 3: years earlier, probably even earlier than that. Then the current 542 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 3: calendar says. 543 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool, but yeah, it seems like a stealthy 544 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 2: yeah until you know. 545 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: Cut cut two thousands of years later, our pals Dave 546 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: Rus and Desiree Bowie point out at our Alma mater 547 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 3: house stuff works that part of the confusion probably comes 548 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 3: from different priorities. So people in the modern world figuring 549 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 3: out the exact date of Jesus' birthday their goals differ 550 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 3: from the goals of whomever wrote the Gospels. This is 551 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 3: where we go to an awesome quote by a guy 552 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 3: named Ian Paul, a theologian, biblical scholar. Actually super impressive, dude. 553 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 3: He's got a website about the stuff called Sefiso. 554 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 5: Great name for a website and great quote. 555 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 4: He writes, we have this modern obsession with dates and 556 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 4: chronological order, but the gospel writers were much more interested 557 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 4: in theology than chronology. 558 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 2: That's a big deal. Right, It's not about when it happened. 559 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 2: It's not about that at all. It is that this happened, 560 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 2: and it's important that you know that this happened, dear 561 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 2: reader or hearer of these words. 562 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's what happened and why it matters more so 563 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 3: than when. 564 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, that is I mean, you know, that's interesting 565 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 4: because it does make you think of like, when did 566 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 4: this kind of pedantic focus on chronology become more the 567 00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 4: order of the day. 568 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 3: I think it probably happened with the rise of dogma 569 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 3: in organized religion, and then it got galvanized by the 570 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 3: fact that if you need a PhD. You have to 571 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 3: find something very specific to argue about. 572 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and intense agricultural stuff. Right back in the day, 573 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 2: that was some of the first numbers that were ever 574 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 2: developed in some of the first language were based directly 575 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 2: on agriculture. Because now we've got something immediately in our vicinity. 576 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 2: We got to watch how long it's been in the ground. 577 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 2: We got to watch how much water has been applied. 578 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 3: Right, we also have to monitor and ration, yes, the 579 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 3: food available for the population based on their socioeconomic status, 580 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: which is why you have meatless practices and you eat 581 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 3: fish on certain yes, And. 582 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: It's why you got to watch out when winter Solstice 583 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 2: is around the corner and you've got the longest night 584 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 2: and you can celebrate. Oh, the sun is coming back now. 585 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 2: The sun can only get higher in the sky from 586 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 2: this point forward for the rest of this year. 587 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 4: I always got like kind of seasonal depressive situations around 588 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 4: this time when it gets dark so much earlier. But 589 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 4: it's just such a you know, modern problem if you 590 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 4: think about back in the day, those earlier you know, sunsets. 591 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 3: Mattered like in a functional way. 592 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 5: Yeah. 593 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 3: Sure, that's why most people have polyphasic sleep before the 594 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 3: advent of the electric light. 595 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, guys, isn't it weird to you? My world 596 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 2: is so northern hemispheric, yeah, and centric Northern hemisphere or centric. 597 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I like it. 598 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 3: I like the second one. 599 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, But it's just it I don't think 600 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 2: about on the same day that we celebrate winter Solstice, 601 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: like this year, it's the twenty first of December in 602 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 2: the Southern Hemisphere, it is the longest day, the shortest night, 603 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 2: and in the most sun that they're going to be 604 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 2: getting for a long time. 605 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,479 Speaker 3: And the toilets swirl differently. I mean, it's just nuts 606 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 3: down there. 607 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 2: Well, yes, but really it's such an opposite thing. The 608 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 2: separation is is massive in a lot of ways. You know, 609 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: from I guess where we are in Georgia versus if 610 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 2: you go you know, to Australia in certain parts down 611 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 2: that way. 612 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 3: But I don't know. 613 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 2: There's something to just the tilt of the Earth causing 614 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 2: that much of a difference. Inexperience on the same planet 615 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 2: is very odd to me. 616 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, because from far enough away that tilt, that little 617 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 3: wobble might seem like a very small thing. Yeah, and 618 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 3: it has Again, this is another metaphor, right, it has 619 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 3: a great consequence to the people on the ground. I also, 620 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 3: clearly we're not denigrating the southern hemisphere at all, but 621 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,760 Speaker 3: we are going to tell you something true. The people 622 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 3: who are writing this had no idea. 623 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. 624 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 3: No, they may have debatily knew a little more about 625 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 3: astronomy and a little more about the shape of the Earth, 626 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 3: and they're given credit for now, but they did not 627 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 3: know a lot of stuff that was out there. They 628 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 3: were if you said South America, they would be like America, 629 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 3: who is that? I haven't read any of his stuff 630 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 3: and they like because of that. It's sort of like 631 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 3: in the game Civilization, where your map gradually grows larger 632 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: as people travel. Unfortunately, now, at this time, the vast 633 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 3: majority of people were living and dying within what we 634 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 3: would call about thirty miles of where they were born. 635 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 3: It was not a lot of people were hopping on 636 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 3: Delta one, you know what I mean? I think maybe 637 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 3: I need to read a different translation. 638 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 2: But they did have Griffins that they could ride around on, 639 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 2: didn't they Wait, no, they did? That was that was 640 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 2: ryanair mixing mix? 641 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's the story. That's the you know, classic 642 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 3: human mix up the story. Treat it like Chipotle, pick 643 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 3: out the bits you want from the buffet. Right. This 644 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 3: might be disappointing to the excellent quote you shared there 645 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 3: and nol. This might be disappointing to think, oh, these 646 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 3: guys are more centered on the rough idea, the theology 647 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 3: than the chronology. But it makes a lot of sense. 648 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 3: Because Matthew and Luke were written a long long time ago. 649 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 3: It is theoretically possible that had they tried to nail 650 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 3: down a specific year and date, it would sound confusing 651 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 3: or nonsensical. To modern readers today. You know what I mean, 652 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 3: if they were like on the night of the one 653 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 3: past the third, beneath the atom, whatever that means, you know, 654 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,399 Speaker 3: like you would be baffled. You would say, just give 655 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 3: me some easy you know, give me a month, I know, 656 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 3: give me a day, I know. And that that's why 657 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 3: investigators have tried for so long, emphasis untried. They have 658 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 3: tried to figure this out. They've delved into context clues 659 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 3: and done some calindrical forensics. So mentions of King Herod, 660 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 3: that's a clue. And then there's John the Baptist. We 661 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 3: don't know a ton about Jesus Christ as a kid, right, 662 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 3: we don't. We don't know what kind of dope stuff 663 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 3: he was up to when he was six years old. 664 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 2: But we literally don't know why anything, right at least, 665 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 2: there are no accepted there's no accepted scholarship of after 666 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: Jesus is born until Jesus shows back up much much. 667 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like some apocrypha maybe you would call it, 668 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 3: but it's it's still sort of hedge folklore and not 669 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 3: acknowledged by ecclesiastical authorities. So if we go to this 670 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 3: is where Mark comes back in. Mark tells us a 671 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 3: little bit of Jesus as a young man, as up 672 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 3: and comer, you know what I mean. He goes to 673 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 3: John the Baptist to be surprised baptized, and then he 674 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,320 Speaker 3: becomes after meeting John, he becomes an itinerant, preacher and 675 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 3: a healer. This is in like Mark one two to 676 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 3: twenty eight fast. 677 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 2: Where does carpentry come into it? Because he is a 678 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 2: carpenter right when he shows back up. 679 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 4: Well, he would have, I guess picked up his father's trade. 680 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 4: You know, maybe he grew up as an apprentice in that. 681 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 4: Maybe that's some of the stuff that happened when he 682 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 4: and the those sort of undiscussed years, if he was 683 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 4: spending time with old Joseph. 684 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense logically, right, That's that's kind of 685 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 3: the rule of the day for a skilled crafts person. 686 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 3: You grow up in the family business, which means you 687 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 3: get access to expertise, mentorship, and physically you get access 688 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 3: to tools stuff exactly. Yeah, you get the toys. So 689 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 3: we know that he had what is described by Britannica 690 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 3: as a short public career in his mid thirties and 691 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 3: as we know or not your Christian you probably know 692 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 3: this part he didn't make it out of his thirties. 693 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 3: He got a lot of attention during this little less 694 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 3: than a year when he was rocking the casmo of 695 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 3: expected socioeconomic order. Sometime between twenty nine and thirty three CE, 696 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 3: he went to observe passover in Jerusalem. And before we 697 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 3: get to John and the Baptist, maybe we put on 698 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 3: our folklore hats again and talk a little bit about, 699 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 3: you know, the Fraser Campbell stuff of the hero's journey 700 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 3: and the hero's story and how they bookend naturally. 701 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 5: My folklore hat has a feather in it. I love that. 702 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 3: That's very Macaroni. Thank you Macaroni. 703 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, say you call me a fancy lad man. 704 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 3: And hold the phone stop at the manger. There is 705 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 3: much more to this story. We cannot wait to dive in. 706 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 3: Please please please check out part two of When was 707 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 3: Jesus Actually Born? And publishing later this week. In the meantime, 708 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 3: thank you so much for tuning in, fellow conspiracy realist. 709 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear from you. We try to 710 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 3: be easy to find on email, telephonic devices, and the 711 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 3: ons of the lines. 712 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, you can find us at the handle conspiracy stuff, 713 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,240 Speaker 4: where we exist at all those places on the internet, 714 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 4: whichever one you choose, you can find this at that handle. 715 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 4: On Facebook, we have our Facebook group here's where it 716 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 4: gets crazy. On YouTube, we have video content galore for 717 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 4: you to enjoy. And on x FKA, Twitter, on Instagram 718 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 4: and TikTok. However, we're conspiracy stuff show use. 719 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 2: Your voice, give us a call one eight three three 720 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 2: std WYTK. It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes 721 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 2: once that beat happens. Don't feel the pressure. It's fine. 722 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 2: Just say whatever you want, but do say a nickname 723 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 2: for yourself and let us know if we have permission 724 00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 2: to use your voice and message on the air. If 725 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 2: you can more to say than can fit in that message, 726 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 2: why not instead send us an email. 727 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 5: We are the entities that read. 728 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 3: Every piece of correspondence we receive. Send us the photos, 729 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 3: send us the links. We can all see it. We 730 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 3: all right back. Be well aware, yet unafraid. You might 731 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 3: just join us here in the dark double Dare you conspiracy? 732 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 3: At iHeartRadio dot com. 733 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,280 Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 734 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio 735 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 2: app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.