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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Farming is a difficult

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Speaker 1: way of life and no other type of farming is

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Speaker 1: as hard as hog farming. Sun up to sundown and

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Speaker 1: sometimes in the middle of the night you have to

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Speaker 1: tend to the hogs that you're going to bring to market.

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Speaker 1: That was life that the Mollis family lived in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: It was the life that they lived and it resulted

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Speaker 1: in the death of Amy Mollis. Today we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about her homicide. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is Body Downs with me. A in today is my

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Speaker 1: good friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Jackie, what can you tell us about this

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Speaker 1: case out of Iowa. Amy Mullis was a thirty nine

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Speaker 1: year old farmer's wife and she was found impaled on

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Speaker 1: a corn rake in the shed on her family farm.

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Speaker 1: Her thirteen year old son, Tristan, had been sent into

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Speaker 1: the shed by his father and the husband, Todd Mullis,

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Speaker 1: and the thirteen year old found Amy Mullis impaled on

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Speaker 1: a corn rake. Again in the shed, Tristan's graamed for

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Speaker 1: his father and when Todd arrived, he removed the rake

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Speaker 1: from her back, put her his wife, Amy Mollis, into

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Speaker 1: the truck, and started racing for the hospital and called.

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Speaker 1: Once she was at the hospital, Amy Mullis could not

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Speaker 1: be revived. The question then, as the autopsy was done,

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Speaker 1: was this an accident or murder? So we're gonna unfold

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Speaker 1: this case, but let's talk about a couple of things

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Speaker 1: right off the bat First, what is being impaled? It's

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Speaker 1: not something that you commonly come across in everyday conversation, though,

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Speaker 1: is that you know, we we think about when people

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Speaker 1: die as a result of what we refer to in

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Speaker 1: forensics as sharp force injuries. That generally involves something like stabbing,

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Speaker 1: which means an instrument that is an edged weapon, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a knife single edge, or maybe you have a

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Speaker 1: knife that is a double edged knife. Commonly, that's what

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Speaker 1: we think of, but this is something completely different. Impalement

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Speaker 1: many times, and not every time, but many times, it

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Speaker 1: has almost an accidental connotation to it um and it

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Speaker 1: generally means that someone falls back on a penetrating object

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Speaker 1: or falls onto a penetrating object. And we heard this

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Speaker 1: term coming up over and over again, particularly early on

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Speaker 1: with UH with this particular case over the years and

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Speaker 1: the months that this thing kind of ground through the

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Speaker 1: the court system. But this is what's kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: about impalement. Impalement, you know, as I said, generally implies

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Speaker 1: many times an accidental event. You know, I've worked cases

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Speaker 1: where I've had car accidents where people have been impaled

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Speaker 1: on pieces of metal, for instance, inside of vehicles. I've

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Speaker 1: had people that have taken great falls off of buildings

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Speaker 1: and this sort of thing and have been impaled on

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Speaker 1: an object. But impalement actually goes back in our history

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Speaker 1: for hundreds and hundreds of years. It's actually a form

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Speaker 1: of torture, and it was actually a form of execution.

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Speaker 1: People would be impaled and generally on a stake of

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Speaker 1: some kind or a metal rod. But in this particular

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Speaker 1: case that the implement that we're talking about is is

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting, Jackie. It's it's called a corn raak,

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Speaker 1: which you know, many people might not be familiar with.

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Speaker 1: It is an un usual instrument. But if you think

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Speaker 1: about a pitchfork, most people are or have an image

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Speaker 1: in their mind of what a pitchfork is, if nothing

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Speaker 1: else from the famous painting of the man and woman

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Speaker 1: standing holding a pitchfork in front of their house. So,

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Speaker 1: a pitchfork is a metal utensil on a usually a

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Speaker 1: wooden handle that's lengthy that's used to help make it

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Speaker 1: easier to move product or produce of some kind. So

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Speaker 1: what kind of an injury are we going to see

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Speaker 1: with a corn rake? It is a four tined instruments,

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Speaker 1: which means it has four prongs. Pick it up from there, Joe, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jackie, it's a unique instrument. You know, you

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Speaker 1: you were talking about pitchforks and pitchforks. If if our

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Speaker 1: listeners will just kind of think about the same action

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Speaker 1: that goes into say, shoveling something, you can kind of

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Speaker 1: marry that up with an image of somebody using a pitchfork,

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Speaker 1: But a corn rake is something that is completely different.

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Speaker 1: And keep in mind the Mollus family, they were hog farmers.

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Speaker 1: A matter of fact, this property they have is vasty

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Speaker 1: and they've got these two gigantic UH sheds that are

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Speaker 1: on the property. Calm shed implies that it's some kind

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Speaker 1: of tiny little dwell and it's not. It's there's the

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Speaker 1: size of what you would think of commercial chicken houses,

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Speaker 1: I think, uh and there's two of them. And within

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Speaker 1: these sheds they raised, uh, they raised hogs, and of

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Speaker 1: course they would start out with piglets and you know,

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Speaker 1: raise them up from a young age. And of course

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Speaker 1: what is it that hogs famously eat? Well, some people

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Speaker 1: might say everything. But in this particular case, you know,

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Speaker 1: you you feed them corn, and many times the corn

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Speaker 1: it's still whole corn. This corn is still on the cob.

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Speaker 1: And so when you're using a corn rake, uh, you

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Speaker 1: contain the corn cobs, say, for instance, in a crib.

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Speaker 1: You've heard people have heard this term a corn cre

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Speaker 1: of uh. And in order to get the corn out

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Speaker 1: of the crib, you have to rake it out, just

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Speaker 1: like you use a rake to rake leaves. Only these

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Speaker 1: four times are bent on this corn rake at about

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Speaker 1: a ninety degree angle, and they're kind of sharp, very

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Speaker 1: pointed on the end, and they're ghastly. You know, these

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Speaker 1: things are ghastly when you look at them, because they're

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Speaker 1: roughly about it looks to be about five six maybe

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Speaker 1: seven inches in length, and then the times the distance

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Speaker 1: between each one is about two to three inches, so

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Speaker 1: it looks like a gigantic claw, if you'll just imagine

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Speaker 1: it like that. And certainly the penetrative ability of one

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Speaker 1: of these times could send it deep deep within the body.

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Speaker 1: And you know when I viewed this this corn rate

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Speaker 1: on several occasions. It was admitted into evidence in in

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Speaker 1: the subsequent trial, and it is I've I've used the

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Speaker 1: term I think ghastly before, but you have to when

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Speaker 1: you take a look at it and see this thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's old, it's been used for a long

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Speaker 1: long time. It does have a wooden handle, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's weathered in appearance, and even even the times of

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Speaker 1: this implement are rusty, and in a couple of the

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Speaker 1: crime scene images you can still see where blood has

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Speaker 1: tracked down a couple of these times and still remain

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Speaker 1: there even when the cops got there to take photos

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Speaker 1: at the scene. Just to clarify one point for our listeners, Joe,

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Speaker 1: when you say corn crib, you are actually talking about

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Speaker 1: a barn. This is not like a little manger there

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Speaker 1: was something that that hogs eat out of. You're actually

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Speaker 1: talking about a barn. Yeah, yeah, and generally in a

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Speaker 1: large storage area where if you can, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to think about this. This is this is

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Speaker 1: a full on industrial operation that you've had that you

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Speaker 1: have here. It's like I said in my opening, this

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Speaker 1: is a twenty four seven job. And so when you're

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Speaker 1: gonna feed this many hogs, and keep in mind they

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Speaker 1: eat constantly, they would deliver corn, say for instance, or

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Speaker 1: feed in the back of a large truck and essentially

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Speaker 1: dump it into the storage area where where it would

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Speaker 1: be kept. And then you would take this corn rake literally.

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Speaker 1: Remember I talked about how it acts like a claw,

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Speaker 1: grab the feed and draw it out like that. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: this is an implement that had been used for a

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Speaker 1: long time. I suspect that there was probably in an

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Speaker 1: operation this size. There was probably more than one there

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Speaker 1: on that property, Joe, And looking at the injuries that

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Speaker 1: would have resulted, let's just say you fall on a

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Speaker 1: corn rake or a pitchfork, those injuries are going to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit different because of the slant of

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Speaker 1: the times. Now, we again do know that the times

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Speaker 1: are metal, and they can be anywhere from four to

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Speaker 1: six or seven inches long. So, given the shape of

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Speaker 1: this instrument and and what it is used for and

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Speaker 1: the length of those times, what kind of injuries or

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Speaker 1: punctures could we expect. It's not long enough to go

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Speaker 1: all the way through the body. But what can we

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Speaker 1: expect in that type of an injury. Well, there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of things that we're gonna look for. And the

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Speaker 1: more you know at autopsy, you know, when you're examining

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Speaker 1: these kind of wounds, much like much like a bullet wound,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we think about the angle of travel

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Speaker 1: or the you know, the essentially the trajectory of the

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Speaker 1: round as it passes through the body. It's no different here, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: We do many times the same thing. For instance, with

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Speaker 1: stab wounds. We examine and trace actually the direction of

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Speaker 1: travel of an object as it passes through the body.

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Speaker 1: So when when we're looking at a body that has

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Speaker 1: been impaled, like Amy Modist's body would would be um,

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Speaker 1: it's not uncommon for us, say, for instance, to take

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Speaker 1: a dowel rod, a very thin wooden rod for instance,

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Speaker 1: and place it into the defect and just imagine this,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes they'll be multicolored, and you run this rod,

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Speaker 1: this doll rod into the wound itself, and you can,

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Speaker 1: if you take the photo just right, you can get

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Speaker 1: an idea of the angle of injury, and you you

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Speaker 1: document those those doll rods as they're coming out. We

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Speaker 1: take a picture of these rods in place, so that

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Speaker 1: when we go to court with a case like this,

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Speaker 1: we can demonstrate this photographically. And it's it's quite striking

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Speaker 1: when you see it now. For us when we're trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what happened at the scene, it gives

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Speaker 1: us an idea of the relationship between the victim, the

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Speaker 1: object that's used, and of course in this case, it's

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Speaker 1: it's this corner, right, and then of course the potential

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Speaker 1: perpetrator in particular case, you know, how were they oriented

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Speaker 1: to the individual when when this particular event took place?

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Speaker 1: Um and right you are when you're talking about how deep, uh,

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Speaker 1: these times can penetrate into a body. And just to

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Speaker 1: give you an idea, when the forensic pathologists did the

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Speaker 1: examination on Amy Mulis's body, um, she opined at that

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Speaker 1: particular time that these times entered through what's referred to

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Speaker 1: as an intercostal space. And I'd like everybody that's listening

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Speaker 1: right now to find just touch your ribs on the

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Speaker 1: side and the kind of meaty portion that's in between

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Speaker 1: each one of your ribs. That's an intercostal space. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's muscle that it passes through, it passes

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Speaker 1: through the muscle, the rib, the muscle, Okay, then it

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Speaker 1: goes through along, then it goes through a liver, and

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Speaker 1: then it goes through the diaphragm. And just think about that,

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Speaker 1: all of that involvement, and not only when that implement

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Speaker 1: is tracking through all of those major bodies of the deceased,

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Speaker 1: it's also tracking through all of those little vessels. And

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Speaker 1: there's tons and tons of these my grol vessels that

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Speaker 1: are existent within our body. Joe, how long would the

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Speaker 1: times have to be to immediately hit a vital organ

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Speaker 1: in the body. Not not too desperately long. And let's

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these injuries that that amy mollis sustained.

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Speaker 1: And I do say that these are injuries, not injury,

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Speaker 1: singular injuries plural um. It can potentially be a shallow,

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Speaker 1: a shallow track that it's going through, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: take too much depth to essentially pierce the back of

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Speaker 1: the lung and then drive through the dome the diaphragm dome.

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Speaker 1: Uh that's just beneath the long and into the top

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Speaker 1: of the liver. Those things are actually located very very

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Speaker 1: close to one another. So it's not that it goes

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Speaker 1: as much deep as you're headed towards the front of

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Speaker 1: the body. But even a shallow strike like that, as

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Speaker 1: it's tracking downward, and that's the important part here, as

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Speaker 1: it's tracking downward, can clip all of those organs, and

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Speaker 1: of course you clip all of the vessels that are

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Speaker 1: associated with it. So if Amy Molliss's lung was clipped,

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Speaker 1: her lungs would have immediately began filling with blood, making

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Speaker 1: it difficult for her to breathe. Yeah. Yeah, What what

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have is, first off, if you think about

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Speaker 1: your chest, your chest is obviously because without saying but

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Speaker 1: I'll say it anyway, it's a sealed area. So people

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Speaker 1: develop what's referred to as a pneumothorax. So when you

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Speaker 1: penetrate that kind of sealed area, you're allowing the air

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Speaker 1: to come out and come in, and it compromises anyway,

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Speaker 1: the ability of the lungs to uh to uh take

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Speaker 1: up oxygen and release oxygen. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: you're insulting the lung by puncturing it. So you've got

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Speaker 1: this kind of twofold event that's going on. You've really

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Speaker 1: got a problem here when whenever you injure the chest.

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Speaker 1: Like this, you're not just opening up this space around

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Speaker 1: the lung, which is actually called the plural space, but

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Speaker 1: you're going into the lung itself, which contains a lot

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Speaker 1: of vessels. Those vessels are clipped, so right you are

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Speaker 1: when you talk about this kind of in dwelling hemorrhage

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Speaker 1: that's going on within the long tissue what's called the

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Speaker 1: interstitial tissue. But on top of that, on top of that,

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Speaker 1: all of those little micro vessels that you've clipped passing

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Speaker 1: through that intercostal space on the back of this individual,

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Speaker 1: that blood is now diving into that open area around

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Speaker 1: the lung where it should just be air in that space,

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Speaker 1: now it's filling up with fluid as well. So you've

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Speaker 1: got a lot to deal with. Uh. If you're say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, a person that's a trauma surgeon or a

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Speaker 1: trauma e R. Nurse and this sort of thing where

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Speaker 1: you're trying to save this person's life, you're having to

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Speaker 1: put out multiple fires at the same time. You know

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Speaker 1: the Molashawk farm, it it's uh, there's a vast property

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Speaker 1: and had all these these newer buildings on it, but

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Speaker 1: there was one little building that was there it's been

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Speaker 1: termed the Red Shed that's out there on this property.

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Speaker 1: And I can't even begin to imagine the horror of

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old Tristan when he walked through the door

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Speaker 1: and he found his mother laying there on the floor

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Speaker 1: under sponsor Jackie. It would have been terrifying, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: especially for a teenager. And again he screamed for his father.

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Speaker 1: Todd came in, found his wife and Joe. He pulled

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Speaker 1: the rake out of her back. She was again impact

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Speaker 1: yield with this rake still sticking in her back, and

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Speaker 1: he pulled it out to take her to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: If I'm understanding my Red Cross training, any time that

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Speaker 1: you are impaled with something, you're supposed to leave it

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Speaker 1: in Why Yeah. Absolutely, If Amy Mollis was to have

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Speaker 1: any shot at life after this event, it vanished when

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Speaker 1: that rake was removed. Of course, at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: we don't really know what the status was um of

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Speaker 1: her breathing and heart rate and all that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing when Todd Mullis came upon her body. But I

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Speaker 1: do know that if if if you want to survivable

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Speaker 1: event with an impalement with an indwelling object, that you

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Speaker 1: have to leave it in. The reason is is that

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Speaker 1: all those micro vessels that I mentioned just a moment

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Speaker 1: ago are essentially, at least for the moment sealed, they're

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Speaker 1: sealed off. They're not going to begin to really leak

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Speaker 1: out at that point in time. But the moment you

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Speaker 1: put your hand to that object and you withdraw it

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Speaker 1: from the body, you open the floodgates. Literally, it's it's

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Speaker 1: you have this huge dump of blood that goes into

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Speaker 1: that plural space around the lung and any other organs

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Speaker 1: that may have been penetrated. And what we do know

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Speaker 1: is that you know, the lung and the diaphragm, which

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Speaker 1: has its own blood supply it's a muscle, and the

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Speaker 1: liver we're all uh impacted by this injury, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that you can't forget about the liver here. The

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Speaker 1: liver is very, very vascular. A matter of fact, probably

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Speaker 1: next to next to the brain, it's probably the most

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Speaker 1: vascular organ in the body. That means that it requires

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of blood flow. So you've got all

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Speaker 1: kinds of little vessels that are in dwelling in there.

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Speaker 1: And once that that corn rake was removed, suddenly at

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Speaker 1: that moment time you had this flood of blood that

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Speaker 1: was just filling her up inside. UM. I find it

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting that Todd Mullis described himself in one

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Speaker 1: way as a quote unquote doer. You know, I'm I'm implied,

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Speaker 1: I'm a man of action. You know, I'm gonna try

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Speaker 1: to do everything that I can't save my my wife's life.

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Speaker 1: And at that moment, tom um he uh, he robbed

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Speaker 1: her of any opportunity to live beyond that point. Would

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Speaker 1: it have been that Amy Mollis bled to death or

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Speaker 1: that she drowned as we were talking about, with her

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Speaker 1: lungs and body filling up with blood or is there

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Speaker 1: a distinction there? It's more of a combination. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you begin to look at you know the totality

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Speaker 1: of these injuries, because they are extensive. Um, Let's just

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Speaker 1: take the lung for instance. It can no longer inflate,

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Speaker 1: all right, it can't take on air, it can't expire,

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Speaker 1: it can't push air out at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: And going to that point, you've got a a die fragm.

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Speaker 1: It's a big this big muscle which helps us with

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Speaker 1: inhalation and exhalation as well. Well. It's compromised now too,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. So it's not gonna be able to perform.

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Speaker 1: And then the liver, I think in this case it's

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Speaker 1: probably secondary, uh to to the diaphragm and the lungs um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the liver is critical and you're bleeding out from that area,

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Speaker 1: But in the immediate, in the acute sense, uh, the

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Speaker 1: fact that this lung has been damaged so desperately, the

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Speaker 1: diaphragm has essentially been pinned down so that it can't

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Speaker 1: rise and fall. Remember, it's got a metal object that's

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Speaker 1: been driven through it. It's not gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: operate effectively. And so that coupled with this flood of

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Speaker 1: blood internally, it's it's just a hellish combination here. And

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Speaker 1: of course it's a recipe for death. As we mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: Dr Kelly Cruz, who performed the autopsy on Amy's body,

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Speaker 1: said the cause of death was sharp force injuries of

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Speaker 1: the Torso so explained to me, actually what that means.

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Speaker 1: I know you've gone over it a little bit before.

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Speaker 1: But if I was a corner and I saw this

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Speaker 1: listed cause of death, sharp force injuries of the torso,

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Speaker 1: what does that actually tell me? Well, in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: what what she's drawing attention to specifically is. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think most most people are gonna say sharp force injuries.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about a knife or a machete, or even

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Speaker 1: a sword in some cases a hatchet where somebody has

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Speaker 1: been hacked to death. But she's saying short, sharp force injuries.

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Speaker 1: And this goes to an actual description of this corn rak,

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Speaker 1: And at an elemental level, it goes to the individual

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Speaker 1: times Jackie, these times I encourage anybody here don't believe

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, go look it up. You can see.

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Speaker 1: You can see images of this corn rak all over

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Speaker 1: the web. Uh. They've got very very uh sharp points.

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Speaker 1: They're they're in a delta shape. It comes to a

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00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: point just like an arrow, essentially, And there's four of

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Speaker 1: these things. And so when she's saying saying sharp force injury,

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00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 1: the are being driven through her. And I guess the

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Speaker 1: closest thing I could really compare it to like a spike,

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Speaker 1: only four of them at the same time, with of

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00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 1: course a smaller diameter, but like a spike nonetheless, And

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Speaker 1: so these penetrative injuries that are driving forth or clipping

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Speaker 1: all of these vessels and then doing great damage to

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Speaker 1: all of these organs at the same time, we know

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Speaker 1: that Amy Mullis had had a medical procedure a few

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Speaker 1: days before. The family members said that she had been

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Speaker 1: dizzy a few days before. How did this play into

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Speaker 1: her death or did it? You know? When when I

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Speaker 1: heard UH that they had put this idea for UH,

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Speaker 1: that she had had a medical procedure just a few

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Speaker 1: days prior to you, you begin to try to factor

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Speaker 1: all of this in relative to well, how does this

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Speaker 1: impact UH impact these wounds that she may have had

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Speaker 1: on her body? And I think one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the narratives that was put forward by both Todd

357
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Speaker 1: Mullis and of course Tristan had mentioned this too, is

358
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Speaker 1: that Amy had complained of feeling dizzy and it was

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Speaker 1: at that point in time that Mullus Todd Mullis had

360
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: told had had told her, you need to go into

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Speaker 1: the house and and and rest. And this was as

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Speaker 1: a result of this procedure she had undergone. However, I

363
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: gotta say, Jackie, with how extensive these injuries were that

364
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Speaker 1: she sustained, UM, I don't care what your medical procedure

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Speaker 1: was that you had had just a few days prior

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Speaker 1: to this. These are without a team of cardiothoracic surgeons

367
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Speaker 1: right there, and uh, and the fact that this instrument

368
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Speaker 1: had been removed from her, this injury would not have

369
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Speaker 1: been survivable by the most healthy emments. Now you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about this corneraking relative to the kind of

371
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 1: injuries that can generate, and h that's not the only

372
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Speaker 1: interesting issue relative to this implement, because I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 1: as the forensic pathologists began to test file in the stand,

374
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Speaker 1: we found out some pretty interesting information about the tracks

375
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Speaker 1: of these wounds and also the number of them we did, Joe,

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Speaker 1: and that was part of what led to Todd mullins

377
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: arrest for the murder of his wife. Joe, the forensic

378
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: pathologist who performed the autopsy on Amy's body, pointed out

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Speaker 1: that there were six let me say that one more time,

380
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: at least six punctured wounds in Amy's upper body. Yeah,

381
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 1: isn't that something? And how many times do we have?

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00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: Let me see mass hard but I think it was four.

383
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: We had four times on this corn rate that they

384
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: have admitted into evidence. And I'm sorry, a four time

385
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: corn rate cannot make or generate six injuries in one blow.

386
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: So it takes us down this this trail here relative

387
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: to the physical evidence that we have and what we're

388
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: observing in the morgue um, you know, after the wounds

389
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: have been cleaned up, after everything has been removed that

390
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: might impede our ability to truly observe this, uh, these

391
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: injuries as they should be observed and document them. After

392
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: all that's been cleared away, we can actually appreciate that

393
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: there are six different what we refer to as punk

394
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: Tate injuries. That's a term that's used by forensic pathologists,

395
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: punk Tate injuries that essentially means puncture wounds that go

396
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: through the body, are into the body. And when Dr

397
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: Cruz really really did a great job on the stand

398
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: when she's described and these because the one thing she

399
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: really brought out Jackie in this case was the fact

400
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: that she could appreciate the fact that not only was

401
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: ms Mulla struck once with this corn right, but apparently

402
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: the corn rate based upon remember how we talked about

403
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: trajectory earlier in the path of these times it had

404
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: been removed the individual that wilded this instrument readjusted their

405
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: body in relation to Amy's body and struck again. Because

406
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: you had two separate angles that these times are traveling

407
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: through the body at now. You cannot you cannot physically

408
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: sustain these kinds of injuries by simply falling on this

409
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: corn rak one time. And I am not buying it

410
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: that she suddenly got up, removed the corn rake and

411
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: then laid it on the ground and then fell on

412
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: it a second time. That's empirically impossible. You can't do that, uh, certainly,

413
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: judging by the nature of these injuries that she had sustained. Uh.

414
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: And you know, I gotta say kudos to the investigators

415
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: on this case because they did something that many times

416
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: you people fail to do, or it happens by accident

417
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: when when Amy Moss's body or when she arrived at

418
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: the emergency room. One of the things that takes place

419
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: in the emergency room, particularly in trauma cases, is um

420
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: the emergency room staff is not there to preserve forensic evidence.

421
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: Everybody needs to understand that they're there to do what

422
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: they're there to save lives, and God bless them for

423
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: doing that. So the one thing that they do is

424
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: they whip out the scissors, right, and they start cutting

425
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: clothes away. Unfortunately, in this case, they cut up the

426
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: front of Amy Molliss's UH shirts that she had onto well,

427
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: she had a one shirt like a T shirt, and

428
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: then she had a sweatshirt on on top of that.

429
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: But they saved them, and that's important. It's very important

430
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: because the corner for that county actually collected those items

431
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: at the emergency room and brought those to the morgue

432
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: so that when doctor Cruz did her initial examination at autopsy,

433
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: she was able to lay each one of these items

434
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: of clothing out and closely examine them and make note

435
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: of the little defects which are the punk tight holes

436
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: that passed through the fabric and try to match those

437
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: up actually with the injuries to the flesh itself. And

438
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: not only does she have one example of this, she's

439
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: got too because we've got we have layered clothing at

440
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: this point in time. So now just imagine you've got

441
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: multiple punk tight injuries not just to the flesh, but

442
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: you've got it to a T shirt and you've got

443
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: it to an overlying sweatshirt as well. And she was

444
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: able to take images of these with scale, which means

445
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: that take a ruler and you place it adjacent to

446
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: these openings in the clothing and over the wounds themselves

447
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: and it gives you an idea of the depth. That

448
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: gives you an idea of the breadth of of these injuries.

449
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: And so the people that are on the stand when

450
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: they're looking at these things, they understand, okay, the relationship

451
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: between the corn rake and the distance between those times,

452
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: and the relationship between that and the injuries on the body.

453
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: They can see that it kind of marries up. It

454
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this. It's it's

455
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: very it's very logical as it's laid out, and Dr

456
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: Cruz did a fine job of this. The clothing wasn't

457
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: all that was saved for forensic examination, No, it wasn't.

458
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: And we have to bear this in mind. Remember Amy

459
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: Mollis's body was transported to the hospital by Todd Mollis.

460
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: She's gone through all of these life saving measures where

461
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: they've attempted to bring her back. Um when know when

462
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: they got their hands on her at the emergency room.

463
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: Her clothing has been cut away at this point. And oh,

464
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: by the way, the infamous corn rate it was pulled

465
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: out of every body and it was left there at

466
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: the scene. So as the police began to process the scene,

467
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: out there, and what they would have done is taken

468
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: overall photographs of that corn rak in that little red

469
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: shed in there. They would have taken it overall photos

470
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: so that you could see the position of of the

471
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: rake itself in relation to all of the walls around there,

472
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: any kind of blood droplets that are on the ground,

473
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: the initial position in which they observed the rate. Remember

474
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to touch it out there, you just

475
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: leave it in place and take photos. But after they

476
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: did that, Jackie, they collected this thing up and they

477
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: brought it to the medical Examiner's office so that the

478
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: forensic pathologists could actually examine the instrumentality that was used. Now,

479
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: you know, having worked in medical examiner's offices and corners

480
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: offices my entire career, this is one of the uh

481
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: the greatest bits of assistance that we can receive from

482
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: a crime scene, because you know, we're we're not always

483
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: fortunate enough as medical legal personnel to go out to

484
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: a scene, particularly if there's not a body there. So

485
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: it's very abstract. Remember, the forensic pathologists was not out

486
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: at the scene. She's taking in all of this information

487
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: that's coming into her from the police and the emergency

488
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: room staff and all that sort of thing. So the

489
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: fact that they would bring this evidence into Dr cruz

490
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Is autopsy suite and allow her to examine not just

491
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: the clothing and not just the body, but actually the

492
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: implement that was used is priceless, absolutely priceless. Okay, but

493
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: what does that actually do for the forensic pathologist, Joe?

494
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got obviously they've got to match things up.

495
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: How do they do that? What does having this rake

496
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: offer them that they normally wouldn't have? You know, in

497
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: forensic science, we talk about things that are within uh

498
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: the scientific realm of possibility. Okay, you know what's what's

499
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: real and what's not. Is this even a possibility? And

500
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: so you know, first off, the physician, I can only

501
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: imagine she probably would have taken that corn rake and

502
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: held it up on edge. Remember this thing is at

503
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: a ninety degree angle, is kind of odd in its shape,

504
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: and she would have considered that by holding it over

505
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: the injuries themselves to see is it possible that this

506
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: implement could have generated these wounds? And it would have

507
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: taken some time for her to have done this in

508
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: the autopsy suite, it uh probably a couple of hours

509
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: there would have been a lot of measurements that would

510
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: have been taken place, and she would have considered this

511
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: based upon the physical injuries that she's observing on Amy

512
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: Mollis's back and then comparing that to the dimensions of

513
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: the corn rake. Remember you're thinking about these times being

514
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: maybe two to three inches in width. That means the

515
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: distance that they are apart, and then the overall length

516
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: of this thing, and and holding it in her hands,

517
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: she can get an idea. It's very tactile. She gets

518
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: an idea of the weight of this thing and what

519
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,239
Speaker 1: would it have taken, you know, And I you know,

520
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: when I consider this and I think about what happened

521
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: to Amy Mollis, this is an event, at least in

522
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: my to my way of thinking, that she was probably

523
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: not driven down onto this thing as much as it

524
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: was driven into her. Maybe if she was laying on

525
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: her front or on the anterior aspect of her body

526
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: and it was driven down into her back. Um, some

527
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: of this can be evidence. And I think it was

528
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: one of the things that doctor Cruz, the Friends of

529
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: Pathologists brought out, is that on the left aspect of

530
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: Amy Mollis's face along her left jawline, there was a

531
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: severely a braided area. Um almost consistent, almost consistent would

532
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: say her the left side of her head being driven

533
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: into the ground, pressure being applied, almost as if she

534
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: is being held in place as this is going on.

535
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: Todd Moullis was a big man. He was a powerful man. Um.

536
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: There was also evidence and I think this is kind

537
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: of interesting as well as uh abrasions and contusions on

538
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: on the backs of Amy Mollis's hands and arms, So

539
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: that gives you an idea that she had an awareness

540
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: that she was maybe making an attempt to fight back

541
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: in these ghastly sets of circumstances. What we found out

542
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: during Todd Mollis's trial is that Amy Mullis was having

543
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: an affair. And one of the things that Todd answered

544
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: questions about when he took the stand was his Google

545
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: searches on his iPad, which included phrases such as killing

546
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: unfaithful women, what happened to cheating spouses in historic Aztec tribes?

547
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: And did ancient cultures kill of all tourers? Now, I

548
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: know you're not a computer forensics person, Joe, but how

549
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: did all of this information gathered together to come into

550
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: Todd's conviction for murder. It's it's a perfect combination of

551
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: physical evidence and circumstantial evidence. I mean, and it's for

552
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: for those in the forensic world, those of us that

553
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: got and gather evidence, whether it be digital evidence like

554
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: on a phone or a computer or some other type

555
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: of device, or if it is actually examining a body

556
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: that's been just uh just traumatized beyond anything that someone

557
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: can possibly imagine. It's the totality of all of that

558
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: data coming together. So what and it's all dependent. None

559
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: of that stuff works. And I want to say this plainly,

560
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: none of that stuff works unless you have a good prosecutor.

561
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: Because it's not the forensic pathologists, you know job, it's

562
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: not the digital for forensics person's job two develop a

563
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: narrative and tell the tale of what actually happened. That

564
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: that's the responsibility of the prosecutor. They have to be

565
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 1: sharp enough to take all of this data that we

566
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: put together in our world, this big umbrella that we follow,

567
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, fall beneath in forensics, take all of that data,

568
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: be sharp enough to take it and tell the tale

569
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: of what actually happened. Uh, you know, remember there was

570
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: in the end you know Todd Mullis wound up in jail.

571
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: But in the end there there were two witnesses to

572
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: this actual event, and you know, Todd Mollis was one

573
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: of them, and the other witnesses dead now. Todd Mullis

574
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: was convicted for the murder of his wife and sentenced

575
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: to life in prison. However, he still claims that he

576
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: did not murder his wife. You sit back and you

577
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: think about this farm that had you know, that had

578
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: existed for years and years and years. And though I'm

579
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: sure a little smelly because it was a dog farm,

580
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: it's a bucolic area, beautiful area of our country, and

581
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: I don't think that anybody in that community will soon

582
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: forget how brutal and horrible Amy Molliss's death. I'm Joseph

583
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, and this, this body backs