WEBVTT - Marjorie Mesidor The Harassment Slayer On Survivors Experiences 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.360 What's up his way of at Angela Yee and my 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:04.320 girl Selena Hill is hanging out with me. 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:05.160 Yep, yep. 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.039 I'm a journalist extraordinaire and we're really excited. We have 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:09.360 so many questions for you. 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:11.800 Today. We have Marjorie Mezzador here. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.640 She is the harassment slayer, but you're also the founder 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.560 and chief visionary officer of Mezzador PLLC, which is a 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.400 workplace discrimination law firm employment and workplace discrimination law firm 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.680 dedicated to advancing justice, equity, and accountability in the workplace. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:30.240 Thank you for joining us today. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:31.360 Thank you for having me. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:31.960 Man. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.519 We have so many things going on and so many 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.600 people call up for ask ye with questions when it 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.720 comes to you know, things that happen in the workplace 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.120 and how to go about it. And we know it's 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.000 something that's difficult for people to navigate. 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.280 No, absolutely, I mean you would be surprised even when 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.479 people know they're being discriminated against. Just how uncomfortable that 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.160 people are even using the word discrimination. Right most of 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.000 the time when things are going on, they're like, oh, 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.120 this person has a personal problem with me. I don't 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.240 know what the issue is, I don't know why being 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:05.319 treated so differently. They'll run through the gamut of questions 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.520 all through their head and the very last thing that 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.160 they come up with this with is I think it's 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.919 because I'm a woman. I think it's because I'm black. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.920 I think it's because I am not a Nate, I 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.280 am a foreign born in national or something like that. 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:22.600 Yeah, And a lot of times we can feel powerless 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.840 to do anything about it. And it's interesting in this 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.959 dnage that we're in right now, Selena. 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.960 You were just covering a situation with COC. What was this? 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.320 Yeah, So the EEOC recently filed a lawsuit against a 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:41.160 Coca Cola distributor for hosting a women only networking event. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:42.800 The federal government. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.280 Is literally saying or claiming that this company discriminated against 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:51.120 men because they were not invited on this retreat right, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.800 which was for you know, women's empowerment purposes. So you know, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.200 my question is I want, as an attorney who is 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:04.240 working to protect underrepresented groups and historic, historically marginalized groups, 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.480 what are your thoughts on this? How can both companies 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:12.280 and these marginalized groups protect themselves when in Trump's era, 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.840 the federal government can actually sue for something like this. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:21.080 Right, So, a couple of different things, right, First and foremost, 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.959 if a private company is putting forth programs to push 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.799 forth an agenda that helps their bottom line that happens 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.560 to align with gender or race or anything like that, 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.639 that is never going to be discriminatory in and of itself. Right. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:43.200 So if you if you are tampaks and you are 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.800 running you know, an empowerment group for that, it's because 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.040 you have you sell a product that is directly geared 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.080 toward women, right, that is going to be otherwise helpful 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.960 and beneficial to them. Where they can run into tricky 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:02.440 waters is because this particular administration is putting this particular 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:07.240 administration has taken a stance on DEI. Right, that is 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:09.880 that makes it like a four letter word, a very 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.880 very like de I is naughty. D I is bad. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:19.400 For this administration, they they see DEI and putting forth 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.040 and pushing for the agenda of one race or one 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.520 gender one of them to be the same. So, because 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.840 they just take a very cookery cutter view of that, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.919 and they have the purse strings of the federal government, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.800 they can weaponize. Right, an agency like the EEOC, and 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:42.920 the EEOC only exists to investigate and research any discrimination 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.160 that takes places in places that have fifteen or more employees. Okay, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.200 so because they have that that that ability, they have 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.280 that authority and that they have that a power. If 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.440 you have fifteen or more employees, the EEOC can take 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.119 a look at your policies, your procedures, your DEI policies 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.160 and say that, you know what, this doesn't align with 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.440 what we think is appropriate or legal, or any one 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.720 of those things. So we're going to investigate it. But 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.000 what the EEOC does not have the ability to do 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:16.000 is declare it illegal just because they're investigating. So none 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.680 of the laws have changed. None of the way that 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.040 we look at the law that says that when marginalized 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.880 populations come together in order to create affinity groups and 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.000 to otherwise elevate agendas and the stuff that in and 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.240 of itself is not discriminatory, that has not changed. But 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:37.240 the government's ability to direct the EOC and say, you 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.080 know what, we're gonna we're not going to look at 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.440 these transgender issues anymore. We're going to focus on just 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.840 the DEI policies that are focused just for women or 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.880 just for people of color, because we're calling that illegal indiscriminatory, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.400 even though they are saying that they can and they 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.320 can do that. They can go in and investigate and 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.839 they can make life very uncomfortable for Coco Colas. They 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.520 cannot declare it illegal though that only the law can do, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.880 only the court can do. But they'll just make it uncomfortable. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.120 And nobody wants the EOC in their backyard. 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.240 And it's kind of like a warning for other companies too, 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:15.920 exactly that happens. 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:17.640 Do you want to have to deal with all of 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:18.880 this exactly? 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:23.679 And this administration has been very effective by saying by saying, 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.240 we are going to throw our entire weight and authority 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.039 behind what we can do to make it as uncomfortable 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.040 for you as possible so that you can do what 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:35.240 we want you to do. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.039 And to Angela's point, like it's definitely setting our precedence 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.080 so that because we see a lot of companies are 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:45.280 no longer in acting DEI policies. But with the lawsuit, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.640 they're saying the company violated Title seven of the Civil 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.560 Rights Act because men supposedly were not invited to this 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.239 women's retreat. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.240 During work hours, during work hours. 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.560 So they're saying that's the case and I'm saying, like 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:08.000 the pendulum has definitely shifted because instead of protecting women, minorities, immigrants, 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.279 now it's like they're attacking them, and they're using the 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.160 same laws that were created to protect these groups now 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.160 to attack workers while they are on the job. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.080 Like, how do we navigate that? 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.039 So a few different things with this particular case, I 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.919 don't know, like all the ins and outs of like 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.880 what kind of program it was under, what like how 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.880 they were able to otherwise nagel it, you know before, 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.880 or anything like that. But if the only criteria for 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.040 you to go to this retreat is your gender, then 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:47.400 that is discriminatory. If the only criteria only right, you're women, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.039 you're a woman, you're in, your guy, you're out, that 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:56.320 on its face absolutely is discriminatory. However, right, a lot 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.680 of the programs that we're talking about, like the DEI programs, 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.080 the affinity programs, a lot of them have to do 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.960 and invite anyone who is in support of anything that 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.920 is going to otherwise elevate support the cause of and 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.600 the issues of the affinity group so it doesn't become 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.120 a situation where it's only men versus women. This is 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.360 a woman's retreat for issues that are particularly important to women. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.360 If you are a man and issues and issues are 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.320 important of women are important to you, you are welcome 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:30.720 to come. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:31.120 Right. 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.480 This is what makes it okay because it's not about 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.000 the setting up to who's invited and who's not based 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.800 on gender, but what is the platform, what is the 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:41.679 agenda here? 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.720 We have International Women's Day here right now, and we 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.240 are doing all these different panels, and it specifically says 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.120 men are invited, right. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.360 They have to highlight that now. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.720 Specifically says that right. Yeah. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:57.960 And then and then you have people who have different 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.920 philosophies about it. You'll have men who's like, you know what, 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:02.720 I'm a feminist too, I want to be in the 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:04.760 room and I want to help. And then you'll have 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.000 other men who will say, you know what, this is 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.600 a private space for women for them to share and 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.640 maybe in an intimate setting with only things that they 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.760 believe that other women would share. I'm going to respect it, 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.440 and I'm just going to refrain. But you're invited, right. 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.320 But you're invited right exactly as long as it's not 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.280 a prohibition saying that you cannot come because you are 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:25.720 a male. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.120 Yeah, man, this is just so much going on. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.679 I do want to know in this era right now 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.000 of what's going on. It's a lot of things have 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.520 been unprecedented, a lot of things have been rolled back. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.760 How has your job and what you do for people? 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.200 What are the shifts that you've seen? 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.600 Right? So, unfortunately, I'm busier than ever right And I 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.240 say that unfortunately because I would prefer not to be 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.479 doing this work. I would love if there was no discrimination, 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.199 no sexual harassment, and I was completely obsolete. That's actually 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.120 very much how our firm runs. We want to work 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.880 ourselves out of existence. But we are busier than ever 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:07.679 because now what people are doing is they're taking this 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:12.640 new anti DEI stance and they're using that to bolster 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:18.400 they're already existing prejudice and discrimination. So now they just 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.520 think that it's okay. They think that they're protected or 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.240 exactly they feel protected. And then on the other side, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.760 those who are doing this work don't feel protected, right, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:29.960 and they feel like they have to work on eggshells. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.000 So that changes the level of aggression with which they 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.000 seek change. It changes with the type of programs that 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.720 they're putting forth and the kind of communities are that 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.800 they are supporting because everybody is running scared. So what 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:48.120 we're seeing is things like six hundred thousand black women 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.600 have been completely disenfranchised out of the workplace last year. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.560 Absolutely, we're talking about that before. 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.480 You, right. So they're like, why is that? Why is that? 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.520 Why is that? You know, why is that the case? 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.959 They're well, let's look at it. Statistics say that black 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.559 women are the most educated demographic in the United States. 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.400 So if this is all truly based on a meritocracy, 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.000 you would find that the qualifications are there, the education 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.560 and there. Why is it a matching up? Because what 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.960 people are doing is because they are rolling back the support, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.800 the resources, the financing, the head counts on these DEI programs. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.960 They're doing that to a lot of the time. You'll 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.640 find that black women are the one and onlies right, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.280 they're the one and only females in this, or they're 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.160 the one and only black person in this So as 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:41.760 not to rival the iriy of the administration, people are 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.319 pulling back those things too. So then what one after 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.959 the other, one after the other, Each one of these 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.640 individuals are ending up without a job under the excuse 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.480 of the temperature has changed, the political climate has shifted. 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.440 I cannot tell you how many women who who I 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.439 have counseled, who have received letters that have literally said, 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.120 the police, ohitical climate has shifted in regards to your 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.640 blah blah blah, and therefore we are going to be 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.439 expending resources and X, Y and z on other things, 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:08.760 on other things. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.720 Yeah, you know, the most unqualified people work in our government. 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.160 Crazy at that part, right, It's. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.600 Like, because I think they make it seem like DEI 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.600 means it's unqualified people in positions, when the two to 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.280 the matter is that for the bottom line, diversity with 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.480 qualified people in those positions is great for any company, 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.360 and numbers reflect that, right, And so that's what's really 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.160 wild to me because it doesn't mean that you're not 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:34.600 qualified to be there. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.839 Absolutely all of that. The only thing that d I 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.400 really means is that you're going to be taking a 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.440 look at Yeah, that's all. You still have to meet 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.400 all the criteria for the job. It just means that 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.600 you're otherwise going to take a look at you know 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.120 what It's like, It's let's consider it like this. The 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.160 three of us are friends and we have a company, 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:57.439 and I say, Angela, who does your marketing and you're like, oh, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.440 I know so and so so and so does my marketing, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.599 who does your whatever? And you're like, oh, so and so, 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.880 so and so does my security. These are people who 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.280 you have relationships with. It is not it wouldn't be 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.080 uncommon for the person who does your marketing to be 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.400 a person of color, or for the person who does 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.160 your security to be a female. And now we continue 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.280 to work and expand on our own, you know, based 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.760 on our own networks. This is what naturally happens. What 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.560 des I is forcing companies to say is like, you 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.199 know what, Angela, I can't just rely on your recommendation 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.800 for a marketing person or your recommendation for a security person. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.080 We are three women of color already in this in 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.480 this in in in this company. We think there would 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.800 be value to have other voices, maybe different religions, maybe 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:48.240 different genders, maybe different raisespectives, with different perspectives that we 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.240 think that would be a value. So instead of us 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.640 just you know, kicking it to you know, the one 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.719 anybody who we have on our rollodecks, We're going to 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.640 make a deliberate effort and reach out to as many 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.760 qualified marketing people, as many qualified security people as we can, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.640 so that we can get a robust, you know, like 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.800 roster of individuals to look at so we can do 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.840 it the best way for you know, at the table, 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.240 that's all the DEI is saying. There is literally nothing 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.720 more than that. The only thing that inclusion does that's 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.520 a little bit more is it makes us always think 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.440 of other case in point, is this studio open on 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:28.680 Christmas Day on December twenty fifth? I think it is, Yeah, okay, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:34.079 bad example, And I'm just like, but it wouldn't surprise 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.800 me if it was closed on Christmas Day, right, because 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.240 we live in the US and predominantly we are very 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.839 like Christian focused, like you know, around that focus. For 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.720 somebody who's Jewish, for somebody who's who's Muslim, for somebody 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.000 who's Buddhist, they have other holidays that they that they 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:51.960 don't get a day off. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:52.200 Yeah. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.440 So then you say, you know, as inclusion, you know, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:00.319 as part of our commitment to inclusion, we know udis 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.240 you know, Buddhist holidays exists and Jewish holidays exists. Instead 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.600 of everybody just getting off on Christmas, everybody has a 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.839 floating holiday and whatever religion or whatever they want to 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.640 use it for they use it. If you know, if 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.600 it's for Hanukah, it's for if it's for Dwali, whatever 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.360 it is you use it for. That's inclusion. That's just 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.200 taking into considering into consideration. You know what, there are 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:23.040 other people besides. 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.000 Everybody is exactly right and this. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:27.680 May be important to them. Let me take a look 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:28.600 at that, Marjorie. 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.320 What got you into this particular specialty. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.840 I mean it kind of fell into my lap a 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.640 little bit. I when I was in law school, I 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:43.040 loved con law, constitutional law. I thought like all about 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.200 the civil rights movements and religious freedoms and all those 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.040 types of cases. I love those because I felt like 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.480 they touched everybody's like life in a way that was 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:58.280 really impactful and fundamental. And I could always get like, 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:03.520 really impassioned about it. But what really drives me in 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.800 this particular work is that I hate bullies. Yea, I 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:13.080 hate bullies. And because money makes the world go round, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.040 and because money is what we use to feed our families, 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.440 to run our lifestyles, to pursue our dreams, our employers 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.000 are in a very unique position in our lives. They 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.000 hold a lot of power over us. And don't get 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.920 me wrong. Not every employer is bad, right, There are 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.120 great employers who they work with their employees. They're like, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.960 you know what, you bring something to us, we bring 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.400 something to you, and they make it balanced and fair. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:45.280 But the overwhelming majority is that people are disproportionately you know, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.760 imbalanced with their employers. And a lot of people abuse that, 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.640 and they abuse it by making people do things that 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:54.520 they know that they should not be they should not 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.400 be doing. They abuse it by taking credit for other 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:03.000 people's work, by diminishing other people's work. You know. Again, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:04.840 if we went back to the you know, the company, 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.800 the fake company that we were starting, maybe Angela's like, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.360 you know what, my marketing person is also my cousin, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.880 so we got to hire her or him or whomever, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.840 and we're going to bring them in. And I said, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.720 but maybe your cousin doesn't know what they're doing, so 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.240 we're going to probably not right, So now we're going 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.560 to use this other marketing company, make them do all 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.160 the work, pay them half the money, and my cousin 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.640 and there is the one who's going to be reaping 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.360 all the benefits. Right right, This is just normal human dynamic. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.240 And sometimes people feel like it just is what it is. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.800 This is corporate America deal with it. And so the 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.600 question is, how do people know when it's an issue? 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.320 Because I have to imagine that it is. And I'm 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.920 sure we've all been in situations that we felt like 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.840 there's something wrong here. When is it when people come 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.120 to you and sometimes people don't know is this even 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:56.520 a discrimination case? 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.400 And I just I had a personal just to piggyback 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.200 off of that an employ there was a speaking of 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.520 that power dynamic an employer of mine. This is in 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.360 the past, there was a person in power who hit 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.480 on me right, who made it very clear that they 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:13.520 wanted to date me. 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:13.800 Right. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.359 I dismissed it, laughed it off, kept it moving. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.080 A colleague. He did the same thing to a colleague. 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:25.359 She reported it because she felt unsafe and harassed. When 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.439 is it actual harassment? Because for me, I kind of 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.160 felt like, you know, let me just you know, brush 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:32.000 his joker off. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:34.680 So he trying to shoot his shot. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.199 He isn't a position of power, and I don't want 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.639 to jeopardize anything. So I was like, in my mind, 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.320 I was just like, you know, it is what it is. 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.000 But she reported it and then did face some retaliation. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.280 So The answer to both of your questions. Number one 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.520 is you really have to trust your instincts and intuition. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.520 There is something that I feel that everybody feels when 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.480 something's going on that just doesn't feel right. They may 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.639 not know what it is right. They may not be 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.199 able to call it. They may not be able to 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.000 say it's discrimination, it's sexual harassment or whatever. But the 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.159 moment that you feel that something is not right, you 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.040 should trust your instinct and watch it. That doesn't mean 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:14.639 as soon as you think something's wrong that you go 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.480 running too hr And here's the difference. You have the 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.919 autonomy right to decide what you are comfortable with and 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.960 what you are not okay. So when it comes to 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.000 discrimination and harassment, there are two parts that the law 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.040 looks at. It looks at objectively if it's harassing, and 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:39.040 then they look at subjectively if it's harassing. Right, let's 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:46.840 look at the subjective part. As women, we get hit 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:51.080 on a lot. And if you are comfortable standing your 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:55.080 ground and standing your nose and saying no and leaving 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.760 it at that, it may not offend you that somebody 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.480 even tried. Right, there are others who think this is 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.760 the workplace and it's completely inappropriate because of this power 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.280 dynamic for you to ever even approach me, right, and 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.080 that person and that person has the right in the 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:17.280 autonomy to do that. TOOM, what makes it actually harassment 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:22.159 is the lack of consent. The fact that she was 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:26.720 hit on and complained. That wouldn't have made it harassment, 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.920 because if he asked the question and she said no, 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:33.040 and he accepted her no, then it's then it's not harassment, right. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.560 But it's the retaliation that came after she told them 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.000 to know that made this a wrong issue because she 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.280 should not be penalized right for saying her no. 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.359 But it wasn't for saying no, it's for reporting it. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.600 Right, Yes, once it got reported and escalated, she felt 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.280 like there was retaliation when it came to just opportunities 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:54.960 and just like the tone, the way she. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.199 Was treated, absolutely absolutely and all of that is one 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.520 hundred percent illegal. She can she cannot be punished for 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.000 reporting it. She was, she cannot be she cannot even 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.960 be punished for reporting it legitimately. But getting it wrong. 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.840 Let's say he wasn't even really hitting on her and 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.680 she got it wrong completely complained to HR. They did 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.920 an investigation and he said, oh, I wasn't hitting on her, 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.840 and they found out whatever, he really wasn't hitting on her. 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.520 But then he's like, but oh, you're gonna complain to 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.960 me to HR, I got your number. That's still retaliation 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.800 so long as the person had a good faith belief 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.399 that what they were complaining about was legitimate, that it 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.880 was legitimately sexual harassment, legitimately discriminatory. Going back to your 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:43.720 question now, when you were talking about like, how do 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:45.560 I know? How do I know when it's the right 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.560 time to complain When it starts taking away things like 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:57.200 from your your money, your package, the kind of projects 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.640 you're being assigned to. You know, you're in your case, 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.000 like the slot that you get. You go from being 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.000 you know, right in the middle of the day, did 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:06.919 something at four o'clock in the morning, You're. 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.000 Like, wait a second. 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.840 You know, as soon as it starts to feel like 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.760 the way that you're being treated is not only along 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.199 the lines of race, gender or something like that, but 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.800 it also begins to impact the way you do your job, 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:25.960 how you show up for your job, how it impacts 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.040 your money you're paid, time off, your overall treatment and 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.920 everything like that. That's when it's time to really complain. 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:36.480 And I always encourage people take note. Take note. You 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:38.800