1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: and there's Charles w Chuck, Brian over there, and Jerry's 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: out there floating in the ether like the omniscient green goddess, 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: salad dressing that she is. This is stuff you should know. 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: Why do you work on that, buddy? That is off 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the cuff? Don't you know me? By now? Off the dome? 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: As they say, I don't see that. I say off 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: the cuff. It's not cool enough to say off the dome. 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: But you're shirtless, so there is no cuff. That's that 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: is true? Man, I hadn't thought about all this. Maybe 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: I should changed off the dome. Speaking of domes, Chuck, Yeah, 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: what were you gonna say? I was going to talk 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: about Thunderdome? Were you really? I'm always this close to 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: talking about Thunderdome? Yeah. I guess that's that's a pretty 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: way to be, isn't it. Sure? So who's who? Chuck? 17 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: Am I master or blaster? And are you master or blaster? 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: Are we both blaster and both master? I'm not sure 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: who was who? But I would prefer to ride around 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: on your shoulders. That's fine. I prefer to be a 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: giant shirtless man wearing nothing but a leather daddy across 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: belt across my chest, which I guess I could probably 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: do that anyway. You know, why not, I'm Tina Turner. 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: Oh so you're Tina Turner writing on blasters shoulders? Yes, 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: what happened to master? Uh? That was? That was? We 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: don't like to talk about it. Two men entered, that's 27 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: all I'll say. Okay, he was suffocated by Tina Turner 28 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: sitting on him. That's right. So UM, obviously, Chuck, we're 29 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: talking about one of the most in my opinion, admirable, 30 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: brave human beings to ever walk the face of the earth. UM, 31 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: and a man named Joseph Merrick, who a lot of 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: people UM no of his John Merrick incorrectly, but probably know. 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: I'm even better as the elephant man. That's right. And uh, 34 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: you know we have to use those words because that's 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: how he was referred to. Um. We'll get into the 36 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: reasons why, but we're gonna call him Joseph Merrick mainly 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: because that's the man's name, and we don't like to 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: to call somebody by their sideshow name. It's a rule here, sure, no, 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: but it should be noted that um, he was uh 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: And it's really I think a lot of people probably 41 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: don't realize this, but he um was an active, willing 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: and initiating participant, founding member, you could say, of his 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: own sideshow act. Um. So he was fully on board 44 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: with the idea of being called the elephant man um, 45 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: which is just another facet of this extremely complex person, 46 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: you know who. I think it's painted with a very 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: simple brush sometimes. But the great thing is is a 48 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: lot of times when you when you look into a 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: widely misunderstood, wildly oversimplified person, you very frequently find that 50 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of like really terrible stuff to them, 51 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: Like they you know, like, um, they were fine with 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: with hitting women. They thought that that was like a 53 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: totally fine thing to do, like Sean Connery, right, and instead, Um, 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: when you look into Joseph Merrick, you find, oh my gosh, 55 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: like he was even he was an even better person 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: than I I dared hope, you know, like he was 57 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: a really great guy who went through just hell on 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: Earth in the twenty seven years that he was alive. Yeah. So, um, 59 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: you may have heard of the story of the Elephant 60 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: Man from UM a few things in pop culture, namely 61 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: the David Lynch movie UM or perhaps the various Broadway 62 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: shows UM. I watched a few of those, like clips 63 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: from a few of those. He's been played by David Bowie, 64 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: Billy Crudup, recently by Bradley Cooper, and I was kind 65 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: of Bradley Cooper said that the movie caused him to 66 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: want to become an actor, so it's actually pretty apropos 67 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: that he played him. Eventually, Well, we can all thank 68 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: Joseph Merrick for Bradley Cooper's success, That's right. But yeah, 69 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: I was kind of curious because I was like, did 70 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: they undergo prosthetics? Like how do they pull this off? 71 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: But UM, I'm sure you looked at some of the clips. 72 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: No one does that. When you play Joseph Merrick. You 73 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: just embodied the man. You um, sort of contort your 74 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: body in certain ways and you just sort of play 75 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: the person. And I think that's a good way to 76 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: go about it, rather than just you know, throwing some 77 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: uh some big mask over David Bowie or something like that. Right. Yeah, Yeah, 78 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: they just kind of contorted their body, they altered their 79 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: speech and just affected they like they Yeah, I think 80 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: it was a good way to go to And apparently 81 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: I don't remember the guy's name, but the guy the 82 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: first guy to play Joseph Merrick in the stage version 83 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: and when that came out and I think seventy nine 84 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: or eighty, Um, he he was the one who started 85 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: that trend and really kind of came up with this 86 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: this embodiment that everybody else has has kind of followed 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: suit with afterwards. And I don't know, I didn't catch it. 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: Did you say Mark Hamill was one of the people 89 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: who played him, Yeah, Luke Skywalker he uh yeah, he 90 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: used the force, he did. So there's something really weird 91 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: that happened in the late seventies, and I am not 92 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: quite sure what it was. But in nineteen seventy nine, 93 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: the stage play based on Joseph Merritt came out. In 94 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, David Lynch released the Just the legendary film, 95 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: one of the best films ever made about um Joseph Merrick. 96 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: And then there was a definitive book that was written 97 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: as well by a pair of authors. Um, one of 98 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: whom I believe was like a doctor who had like 99 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: all this great research, but his writing was a little 100 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: over the top, so they assigned a ghostwriter with him, 101 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 1: and they basically wrote the definitive book on Joseph Merrick's life, 102 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: UM and medical condition. And all three of these projects 103 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: happened independently, like one wasn't adapted from the other or 104 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: anything like that, and they all came out at around 105 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: the same time, which is really strange in and of itself. 106 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: But it's even stranger to think that all of this 107 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: happened um centered on a character who had been largely 108 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: forgotten by this time, you know, like there was really 109 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,559 Speaker 1: only two surviving um pieces of literature about him, about 110 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: Joseph Merrick, the man um that that that anyone was 111 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: aware of, and they had been written in the nineteenth century. 112 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: But then suddenly, for some reason in the late seventies, 113 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: three different projects started up about Joseph American kind of 114 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: made him a icon for humanity that is still, you know, 115 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: lasting today. Yeah. I think the seventies spawned Disco Fever 116 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: and Elephant man Fever. Sorry, and they were both rather 117 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: unlikely considering uh, both Disco and Joseph Merrick were born 118 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds, specifically in England on August five, 119 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two. So I meant to look it up. 120 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's Is it Leicestershire like the 121 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: sauce Leicester Lester Lester? Right, yeah, you have that last time. 122 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: It's just Lester from what I understand. Okay, So he 123 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: was born in Leicester, England, on August five, eighteen sixty two. 124 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: And UM, we'll talk a little bit about what they 125 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: are pretty sure his condition was. But being eighteen sixty 126 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: two at the time, Um, after he started developing, um, 127 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: some very strange symptoms at the age of five, doctors 128 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: back then we're pretty flummixed. Yeah, yes, yeah, So. UM. 129 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: The reason why is, we'll see, is because they think 130 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: he's one of maybe a hundred people in the entire 131 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: history of the world, or at least as far as 132 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: people have been writing stuff like this down on um, 133 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: to have this condition that he had. So it's not 134 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: like he started developing strangely and they were like, oh, well, 135 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is what's going on, this is what's 136 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: to be expected. Instead, just a little by little his 137 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: body started taking on these odd differing forms. Um. And 138 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: like you said, I think it was around the age 139 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: of five that he really started to to show that 140 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: he was going to be rather different. Yeah, it was five. 141 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: His father Joseph and his mother Mary Jane noticed he 142 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: had swollen lips, and then a lump started to form 143 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: on his forehead. His skin started to kind of get 144 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: loose and rough. Um, And this was just sort of 145 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: the beginning. His face became spongy, his jaw started to deform, 146 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: his speech was impaired. Um. The right side of his 147 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: body was, or at least upper body was a little 148 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: more or I guess a lot more affected, because it 149 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: seemed like his left arm in hand stayed kind of 150 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: as is, but the right side arm became sort of 151 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: like this giant fin right. So. Um. The the thing 152 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: that I guess kind of gave him the moniker the 153 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: elephant man was growth that started protruding from from what 154 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: I saw beneath his upper lip. So the way that 155 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: I read that, Chuck, is that like when you pull 156 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: your your top lip up, that part of your gums 157 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: right there above your teeth, that he had like a 158 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: growth start that started there and it got pretty big. 159 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: I think it got up to about eight inches long, 160 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: and that I guess you would just look at it 161 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: and be like wow, that looks a lot like an 162 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: elephant's trunk. This this strange growth that's growing up from 163 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: under this poor man's top lip um, and he later 164 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: had it removed so it doesn't show up in any 165 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: photographs of him. But that supposedly is um one of 166 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: the places where the idea that he was an elephant 167 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: man came from. Yeah. So as far as his family goes, 168 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: he had a couple of younger siblings. It seems like 169 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: both of them passed away. William Arthur Um succumbed to 170 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: smallpox and Marian Eliza. It just says on her death 171 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: certificate that she was crippled from birth with an unknown ailment. 172 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: And he Um he went to school like he Like 173 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: I said, it didn't start happening un till he was five, 174 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: and it wasn't so severe right away that he couldn't 175 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: go to school like any other kid would his age. Um, 176 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: things really took a turn though, when his mom died 177 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: when he was eleven years old. Things went really bad 178 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, so there's like a few things that 179 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: you should know about his mom. So his his mom 180 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: was vilified by his biographer, who also would turn out 181 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: to be a surgeon. Um who will talk about later. 182 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: Frederick Treeve's um as as a terrible woman who abandoned him, 183 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: and um, that doesn't seem to be the case at all. 184 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: And in fact, Um Joseph recalled his mom is a 185 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: very saintly sweet woman who was basically his only friend. 186 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: Because when you're you know, starting around five and uh 187 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: you and you, you are having trouble keeping up with 188 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: other kids. Something else happened in when he was five 189 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: two Chuck, he injured, He felt really hard and injured 190 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: his hip, and that injury became infected, so he became 191 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: um what at the time they would have called lame 192 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: or crippled in his I believe his left leg. So 193 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: he had trouble walking from the age of five. In 194 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: addition to his genetic condition, um that was making him 195 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: look more and more different. So he became further and 196 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: further alienated from his friends. I saw a quote that 197 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: said that he was becoming a lonely, introspective child, increasingly 198 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: dependent on his mother for company. And luckily, his mother 199 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: seems to have been a very sweet woman who, again 200 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: in the vertacular, was crippled. That's how she was described. 201 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: So we have no idea in what way, But today 202 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: you would describe her as without the use of say 203 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: one or more of her limbs. So they had like 204 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: that kind of connection. But she also was very protective 205 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: of Joseph two. So when she died it was more 206 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: than him just losing his mother at age eleven. It 207 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: was him losing like his best friend, his his main companion, 208 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: um and the source of like basically anything good in 209 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: his life was was taken from him at a very 210 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: young age. Yeah, his father remarried and by all accounts 211 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: his father and stepmother were not very kind to him 212 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: at all. They were emotionally abusive, uh could be physically abusive. Um. 213 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: He left school at age thirteen, which is um about 214 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: when kids left school back then, and got a job 215 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: at a cigar factory and Um worked there for a 216 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: couple of years until his left arm got to the 217 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: point in hand such that he couldn't do the job anymore. 218 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: So at that point he got what they called a 219 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: hawker's license in order to help his dad, who had 220 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: a couple of small businesses. But he helped his dad 221 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: sell stuff from his hab a dashery in England there 222 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: and then eventually went to work at the Lester Union workhouse. Uh. 223 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: He ran away from home a couple of times. It 224 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: was just a really bad scene and eventually landed with 225 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: his uncle, who was a barber named Charles, and he 226 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: was a good guy and he um, he felt bad 227 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: for what Joseph was going through and sort of his 228 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: home life, so he took him in and that ended 229 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: up being um, after a couple of really bad years 230 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: with his dad and stepmother, a really nice place to 231 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: be for a little while. Yeah, stepmother was just pretty evil. 232 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: She she um. She was the one that made him 233 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: drop out of school at thirteen and go get a job. 234 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: And when he was hawking stuff from his father's shop, 235 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: if he didn't come home with uh, you know, enough money, um, 236 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: she wouldn't give him a full meal. I guess she'd 237 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: give him enough food to sustain him, but she if 238 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: he couldn't pay for the meal that she had on 239 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: offer with the proceeds from what he sold that day, 240 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: she wouldn't give him that meal. And then his father 241 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: would frequently beat him too, So it's no wonder that 242 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: he he tried to run away, but then his father 243 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: would go get him and bring him back home. So 244 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: he had a terrible life. And yeah, luckily he had 245 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: the uncle named Charles who who took him in for 246 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: a little while. But even he was like, I can't 247 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: support you anymore, kid, because after a little while, very sadly, 248 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: Joseph actually had his hawker's license revoked because he was 249 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: deemed a menace to the community because he was scaring 250 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: people when he was going door to door trying to 251 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: sell stuff. His appearance scared people and there were enough 252 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: complaints that the city revoked his license. So at the 253 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: at the end, by the time he was seventeen, he 254 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: had no choice but to go to the Union Workhouse, 255 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: which is a poorhouse. It's what Dickens described in Oliver 256 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: Twist and some of his other stories, where you went 257 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: there if you were either unable or unwilling to support 258 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: yourself through honest work, and they would put you to 259 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: work and it was basically like a prison for poor people. Um, 260 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: they'd fee you and they give you a bed, but 261 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: it was a very cruel place to live. And that's 262 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: where he spent a little while, I think five years um, 263 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: because he had no other choice, and then finally chuck 264 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: out at one point towards the end of his stay 265 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: at the union workhouse. He said, you know what, there's 266 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: an alternative for me, and I'm going to take it. 267 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: And we should probably take a break now and uh, 268 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: maybe come back and talk a little bit about his 269 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: this mystery illness that he had that we now sort 270 00:15:28,600 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: of understand. Yea, So he referred to himself as the 271 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: elephant boy and then the elephant man. Um. This was 272 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: a moniker that was uh, he he sort of embraced. 273 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: But he thought his whole life that he was this 274 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: way because of something called maternal impression, which was still 275 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: a common belief back then, which was that something could 276 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: happen to a mother while pregnant that would affect the baby. 277 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: And that's not to say, you know, she drank or 278 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: smoked and had a literal, um literal effect on the 279 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: development of the of the baby. Um. What they meant 280 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: was she was knocked over by an elephant when she 281 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: was pregnant, and that is what caused his illness. And 282 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: he believed that his whole life and the whole notion 283 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: of maternal impression obviously something in the late eighteen hundreds 284 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds was um, it's kind of crazy to 285 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: think about now, but they actually thought that in utero 286 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: it could have an effect like that. Yeah, yeah, so, 287 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean, but it also kind of makes sense. Don't 288 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: you think that if he started to basically grow, what 289 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: you'd be like that looks like an elephant's trunk. Your 290 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: mom was knocked over and almost stomped by an elephant 291 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: once when she was pregnant with you. We have no 292 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: idea what genetics are yet. I mean, you could see somebody, 293 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, making sense of it that way. Maybe. I 294 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: guess it's hard to kind of put my head in 295 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: that mindset back then. But um, what we now think, 296 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: and what doctors now think, is that he had either 297 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: UH a case of neurofibro mitosis or UH and or 298 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: something called proteo syndrome. And it really seems like proteo syndrome, 299 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: as rare as it is, is probably what he suffered from. Yeah, 300 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: I saw that. Experts in neurofibromatosis have categorically ruled that 301 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: out is what he had, because with neurofibromatosis you have 302 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: all sorts of tumors that actually grow on your nerve tissue, 303 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: so your nerve endings, your spine, brain, and he may 304 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: have had those, so it's possible he did have a 305 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 1: case of that, but like you said, it's much likelier 306 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: as proteus syndrome, which is characterized by basically an overgrowth 307 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: of tissue of bone of organs even um and and 308 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: I looked into this. So it has a genetic basis, 309 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: as I kind of mentioned a couple of times, Chuck, 310 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: But it's based on this idea of mosaicism, which is 311 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: where you end up after you're conceived in your cells 312 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: start dividing um. At some point, there's a mutation that 313 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: occurs and your cells start dividing differently in in that 314 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: they have two different sets of chromosomes. So you have 315 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: two different sets of cells with different sets of chromosomes, 316 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: and they start doing their own thing and in building 317 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: a human body, but it becomes incoherent. Whereas it would 318 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: if they were uniform and all the cells shared the 319 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: same set of of DNA or the same gene set um, 320 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: they would build a coherent human But in this case 321 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: it's incoherent. And it's kind of like if you gave 322 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: two different building plans to two different construction companies and 323 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: told them to build on the same site at the 324 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: same time and just ignore each other. That's what you 325 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: would produce. But in this case, it's not a building, 326 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: it's a human body. Yeah, I've heard of mosaic downs 327 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: is the only time I've heard that used, and I 328 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: think it's sort of similar in that case. But as 329 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: far as proteosyndrome goes UM, it's progressive UM. Your body 330 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: could be covered with um tumors, either benign or malignant. UM. 331 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: It can malform blood vessels, you can have skin lesions, 332 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: you can have blood clotting which results in all kinds 333 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: of problems like deep vein thrombosis or maybe pulmonary embolism. 334 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: It can affect basically any kind of tissue from fat 335 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: to skin to your central nervous system. It's really depends 336 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: on the patient UM and who's afflicted how it can 337 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: affect you. And uh, it usually I mean his was 338 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: onset pretty late. If it started, I guess outwardly at 339 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: least at five years old, because it typically starts anywhere 340 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: from six months to eighteen months of age. Right. Um. 341 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: But that's another thing about neurofibromatosis is that it um. 342 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: It usually starts at like the get it's onset is 343 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: at birth or before birth, so that's another reason another 344 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: strike against it. So UM, so it's pretty clear they 345 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: think that that he he had proteus syndrome. And it's 346 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: actually a pretty recent thing, like I think it was 347 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: first described in ninety nine and they said there's probably 348 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: about two hundred people who have ever appeared in the 349 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: medical literature that had it. And then some other reviewers 350 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven did another survey of of the 351 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: medical literature and paired it down to basically one people 352 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: in the history of medicine whoever had proteus syndrome. And 353 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: the thing is is Joseph Merrick may have had the 354 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: most pronounced advanced case of proteus syndrome ever of anybody. Um. 355 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: He he had basically every every symptom you can possibly have. 356 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: But the big problems that he suffered from where like 357 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 1: you said, his his right hand was was UM, he 358 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: couldn't use it because it had kind of fused into 359 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: a fin like appendage. UM. He had joints that he 360 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: couldn't move because the bones had had overgrown. He couldn't 361 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: hear out of his right ear because his skull had overgrown. 362 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: And actually, if you see pictures of his skull today. Um, 363 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: he's it's just huge and massive, and apparently it weighed 364 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: something like twenty pounds and got to something like three 365 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: ft in circumference, which is about a foot and circumference 366 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: more than the average human man's head. Um. So it 367 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: was just enormous. And all it was was he had 368 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: cells that were that didn't know when to stop growing, 369 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: whether it was bone or tissue or skin or whatever. 370 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: He also had problems inside of his mouth with bony 371 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: growths too, which affected his speech. Yeah. He um, he 372 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: couldn't sleep laying down. Uh, he had to sleep. I 373 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: think one of his associates later in life he he 374 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: liked to draw a curtain around himself when he slept. 375 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: But one of his associates, um, kind of peeked in 376 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: one night and saw that he slept sitting up with 377 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: his knees drawn into his chest, with his head resting 378 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: forward on his knees. So if you can imagine like 379 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: sleeping like that every night of your life. Because his 380 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: head was so strong and so big that he would 381 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: risk waking up with a broken neck and it affected 382 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: his breathing. Um. I just I wonder if the late 383 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: seventies when they first described proteo syndrome with that coincided 384 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: with the interest in Merrick's story. Maybe we solved it. 385 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: That's weird. Yeah, that would be weird. But I haven't 386 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: seen anybody mentioned that. It's almost like he just you're 387 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: in the zeitgeists somehow around then. I don't I don't 388 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: get it. But yeah, maybe that was it. But um, 389 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: but no, it couldn't be Chuck because it wasn't until 390 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: night six that some geneticists said that he probably had 391 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: proteus syndrome for the first time, so it would have 392 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: been after that. Yeah, it's just strange. So one one 393 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: thing I want to say though about about proteo syndrome 394 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: and mosaicism, um mosaicism, that mutation happens after conception. So 395 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: the weird cosmic irony of this whole thing is it's 396 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: entirely possible that that mutation did happen around the time 397 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: that his mother was pushed down in front of that elephant. 398 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: It would have had nothing to do with the elephant, 399 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: like she she wouldn't have been frightened into this mutation 400 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: or anything. But how ironic would it be if it 401 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: happened at virtually the same time you know. So, uh. 402 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: In the late eighteen hundreds four is when Merrick decided 403 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: it was a pretty brave choice basically to take his 404 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: life in his own hands and say, listen, I'm not 405 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: gonna um, I can't go door to door, I can't 406 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,239 Speaker 1: stay in this work poorhouse any longer. I want to 407 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: be able to sustain myself and not just end up 408 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: in some you know, dark room of a hospital living 409 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: off the government. Like I want to live my life 410 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: as best as I can. So he checked himself out 411 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: of that workhouse and he decided to reach out to 412 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: a man named Sam Tor who ran the Lester Music 413 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: Hall h called the Gaiety Place of Varieties, and he 414 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: started exhibiting himself as the Elephant Man, half man, half elephant, 415 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: and he achieved a lot of success early on um there, 416 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: and then he eventually moved to London, made even more 417 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: money and was actually, I mean, we don't have real 418 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 1: numbers on his income, but it was reportedly fairly substantial, 419 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: like enough to enough to live and live well. Yeah. Um, 420 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: although living well, I mean it's a relative term. Because 421 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: when he made the move to London, he was on 422 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: display in a storefront in a building that's still there today. 423 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: It's now numbered two fifty nine White Chapel Road in 424 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: Shadwell in London. Um, and you can go visit the 425 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: store today they sell Sorry's there. From what I understand, Um, 426 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: But he was he lived in an iron bed and 427 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: in the back of the the store and then would 428 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: come out for these performances this exhibit. But the thing 429 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: is is like he was part of a side show. 430 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: But he was a partner in the side show act. 431 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: He he partnered with a man named Tom the Silver 432 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: King Morgan, who was already a showman and Um, I 433 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: guess bought out Uh Sam tores shares in Merrick's exhibition 434 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: and took over for him and um when he was 435 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: displaying him like like I said, they were, they were partners. Like. 436 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: There was a pamphlet that you would get that I 437 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: think there's still copies of in existence today with kind 438 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: of a crude drawing of of Joseph Merrick on the 439 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: front and like you said, it said the elephant man, 440 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: half man, half elephant. Um. And part of the biography 441 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: in the pamphlet was written by Joseph Merrick. It had 442 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: the whole story about his mother being pushed down in 443 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: front of an elephant and everything. So like a lot 444 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: of people just you know, talk about how he was 445 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: exploited or whatever. He was doing this for work, um, 446 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: And I guess part of the rationale that he used 447 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: was people stared at him anyway. Like by this time, 448 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: when he went out in public, he would wear like 449 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: a cloak. He had a cap with a hood that 450 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: hung down from it, and he put this on so that, 451 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, he just looked like this mysterious shape moving 452 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: through the town. But at the very least he wasn't 453 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: just like um as gaulked at as he would be without, 454 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: you know, wearing a hat and a hood and all that. Um. 455 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: But his his rationale was that people are going to 456 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: stare anyway, I might as well charge him for it. 457 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what he did um at that storefront 458 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: and in London. And it just so happened, Chuck, that 459 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: that storefront was located directly across the street and still 460 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: is from the London Hospital and some doctors they're caught 461 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: wind of this curiosity who was on exhibit just right 462 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: across the street, and they they some of them showed 463 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: up to to check it out. He had at one 464 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: point he met up with a surgeon who had heard 465 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: about his story named Frederick Treeves, and he invited him 466 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: to come in for an examination. And this is um, 467 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: you know at this point in Merrik had I guess 468 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: it was sort of his peak of his deformities in 469 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: his troubles. At this point, his head was about thirty 470 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: six inches in circumference, that right wrist was about twelve 471 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: inches around, and he had those tumors all over his body. 472 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: Like we said, a lot of trouble walking and talking. 473 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: But when he was examined by by the doctor, he 474 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: was like, you know, other than this, you're in pretty 475 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: good health. Um. He ended up having a heart problem 476 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: later on, but um, he said, other than that, you're 477 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: in decent health. And he said, I would like to 478 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: present you, if I could, to the Pathological Society of 479 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: London and to come in for more exams. And it's 480 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: at this point where Merrek um, I think, sort of 481 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: cut the notion in his head that listen, I am 482 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: getting the same feeling um of being on display in 483 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: the storefront, and I don't like how it feels. I 484 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: think one of his quotes was the experience made him 485 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: feel like an animal in a cattle market, and he said, 486 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go from showing myself 487 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: in the storefront to being paraded around in front of 488 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of doctors for some sort of yeah, some 489 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: sort of weird medical experiment. Yeah. So so Treats like 490 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: very clearly identified, Um, Joseph Merrick is a really great 491 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: case study that Treats could make his his name on, 492 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: and ultimately he did. Um. But when he asked Joseph 493 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: to come back for more tests and more displays and 494 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: demonstrations in in, Joseph declined. Apparently Tribes was very upset 495 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: by this, and then a lot of people say not coincidentally, 496 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: but it's never been proven that he had any hand 497 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: in it whatsoever. Shortly after he was rebuffed or he 498 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: rebuffed Trees invitation again. Um, the elephant Man exhibit was 499 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: shut down by police. London outlawed that particular exhibit. On 500 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: the one hand, it makes sense because Victorian society it 501 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: kind of started to come to see side shows or 502 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: freak shows as they were called at the time, as 503 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: really exploitive and distasteful, even ones where the person on 504 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: display was a willing participant, and then other people think 505 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: well it was revenged by treats. He he was kind 506 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: of that kind of person potentially to do something petty 507 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: like that. But however it happened his show got shut down, 508 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: and he found himself pretty well off, like you said, 509 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: like he had a lot of money, he just wasn't 510 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: living very well. He was living in an iron bed 511 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: in a cold storefront. And he said, you know, I've 512 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: always wanted to go see Europe the continent, and uh, 513 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to go try my hand in Belgium 514 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: and see what they think of my exhibit. And so 515 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: we moved to Belgium for a while and started up 516 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: in exhibit there. Yeah, so in Belgium is where um 517 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: he had some sort of ups and downs. He was 518 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: ended up being robbed by a manager there who took 519 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: him on and he took basically all the money that 520 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: he had saved, and it was it was a good 521 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: amount of money, um, you know, And that's I think 522 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: that's kind of how we know that he had some 523 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: uh some decent success and made a decent living back 524 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: in the UK. And in eighty six he goes back 525 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: to England and once he's there, he goes back to 526 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: the London Hospital. They say that this is an incurable 527 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: thing that you have and uh. There was a letter 528 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: published in The Times from the chairman of the hospital, 529 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: Francis carr Goam, that said, UM that talked about his 530 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: case basic lee and said, hey, if there's if there's 531 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: anyone out there that thinks they could help this man, Um, 532 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: please get in touch with us. There was a big 533 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: outpouring of support, mainly financial UM, which really helped Merik 534 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: out because, like I said, he had his life savings 535 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: taken and was definitely a hard luck case at this 536 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: point financially and he was able to use that money 537 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: UM basically to live on for the rest of his life. Yeah. Yeah, 538 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like there's a story that that Um Treeves 539 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: said in his memoirs. Like I said before, there's only 540 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: two surviving pieces of contemporary writing about Joseph Merrick. One 541 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: is the Memoirs of Frederick Trieves his his doctor the 542 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: man who ended up becoming his doctor, and then the 543 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: other was the pamphlet written um in part by Joseph 544 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: Merrick about his life that was handed out at the 545 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: side show. But in tribes Memoirs, he recounts a story 546 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: that Um, Joseph was so bad off when he finally 547 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: found passage back after being abandoned, beaten, robbed, in belled him. 548 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: When he found passage back to UK, he couldn't even 549 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: speak um with either because he was just so so 550 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: shattered by the experience or because um his the bony 551 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: protrusions in his mouth had progressed so much. But regardless 552 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: of the police supposedly found a business card of Frederick 553 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: Trieve's on him and they took Joseph to Frederick Treeves 554 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: so he was kind of at least according to trus 555 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: memoirs delivered by Providence, back into Tree's hands. And then yeah, 556 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: at the hospital they were kind of like, look, you know, 557 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: this is a really sad story, but he's an incurable 558 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: there's nothing that we can do about. He's got to go. 559 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: And if it hadn't have been for Francis car Gone 560 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: basically turning out and saying like, hey, we don't know 561 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: what a go fund me is yet, but this is 562 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: basically what we're going to do. And the response that 563 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: he got was just so massive that that yeah, they 564 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: basically said, Okay, there's enough money here now that you 565 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: can live here for the rest of your life if 566 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: you want to. And one of the big things that 567 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: really kicked it off, uck was a visit from Alexandra 568 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: or Alexander. Yeah, Alexandra, um Princess of Wales, and the 569 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: Princess of Wales title is what Princess Die or Kate 570 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: Middleton have now has has now Like it's a big 571 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: deal title in the royal family. So this is basically 572 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: like Princess Die or Princess Kate showing up to visit 573 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: him and shake his hand. And so it became very 574 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: fashionable among um London's high society to visit Joseph Merrikan 575 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: patronize him basically and make sure that he was supported. 576 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: And it really gave the last four years of his 577 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: life like this amazing boost. Like he went from real 578 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: hardship and exploitation to about as cushy a life as 579 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: somebody with his medical condition can have and being celebrated 580 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: as a as a really interesting good person um by London, 581 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, the last few years of his life, which 582 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: is a real silver lining to this story. You know, yeah, 583 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: we should take our last break here and talk about 584 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: those last few years a little bit more after this 585 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: m so uh April eleven is when Joseph Merrick finally 586 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: passed on, he was twenty seven years old. They found 587 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: him lying flat on his back in his bed. So, um, 588 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: this article gets it super wrong. Um. From how Stuff Works? 589 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: They say that that, um this They quote a historian 590 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: from University of You Talk called uh Naja what is 591 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: her name? Der Back and she says that it's highly 592 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: likely that Merrick committed suicide. And that is almost almost 593 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:09,479 Speaker 1: almost surely incorrect. Um. He the story. The legend goes 594 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: that he um, he had he wanted to always sleep 595 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 1: like other people, flat on his back, but he couldn't 596 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 1: because his head was too heavy and it would crush 597 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: his windpipe. And that when he was discovered dead in 598 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: his bed, he was flat on his back. Um, and 599 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: had clearly tried to sleep like that because he wanted 600 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: to be like normal people. And I think even in 601 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: the David Lynch movie, that's how he dies, isn't it. 602 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: I've never seen it. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, 603 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: wait a minute. Really correct? Oh you're gonna love it, dude. 604 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: It's one of the better movies ever made. I think 605 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: it will be one of your favorites. I'll be very 606 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: surprised if you don't absolutely love it. Um, wow, this 607 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: I guess this research just spoiled it for you. Huh. 608 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: I knew the story, but yeah, I've never seen it 609 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: all the way through. Yeah, it's it's a good movie, 610 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: but in it, I think that's how they depict his 611 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: his demise as well. But if you go back and 612 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: you look at the um the postmortem report or the 613 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: reports from the port postmortem report, he was actually found 614 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: in the middle of the day. He'd already been awakened, 615 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: he had been brought lunch at like one thirty pm, 616 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: and he was totally fine. But then when another doctor 617 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: dropped by on his rounds to see how he was 618 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: doing at three pm, he was found dead. And he 619 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: was laying across his bed, and they think the way 620 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: that he was laying indicated he tried to get up 621 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 1: and either maybe he pulled a muscle or he had 622 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: a heart attack or something like that happened and he slipped, 623 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: and that's a big deal for him because his head 624 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: weeighth twenty pounds and apparently when he went down, his 625 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: head twisted just right and and twisted his vertebrae and 626 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: killed him like that. So the initial um autopsy said 627 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: that he died of dis disconnected or dislocated vertebrae. And 628 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: apparently somebody studied his bones in the last of your 629 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: years and said, actually, that's that's probably exactly how he died, 630 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: based on what his his skeleton looks like still today. Wow. 631 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: So after he died, Uh, they they basically took his 632 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: flesh from his body. Uh, they boiled down his bones 633 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: because they wanted to have those for display and for study, 634 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: and they are still on display. And um, they ended 635 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: up burying his very unceremoniously buried, um what was left 636 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: of him, his organs and his remaining flesh and an 637 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: unmarked grave. And there's a lot of speculation whether you 638 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: know what kind of relationship he had with Trieves, and 639 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: whether or not he really cared for him like he 640 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: claimed to, or whether he was just sort of a 641 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: doctor exploiting this really um sort of exceptional case. Um. 642 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: The reason he's known as John Merrick is because, um, 643 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: because Treeves called him that in a book, even though 644 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: that wasn't his name. So, UM, there's been a lot 645 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: of speculation about the true nature there. Yeah, there's a 646 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: there's another author um quoted in this house stuff works 647 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: article named Joanne Vigor Mungo Vin. She's a she's a 648 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: written at least one book on on Joseph Merrick. And 649 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: she um actually found his grave has lost unmarked grave 650 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: and confirmed that he had been buried in consecrated ground 651 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: in a common grave, which apparently was common in those 652 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: two in those days, like people have been buried in 653 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: that grave before him, and people were buried in that 654 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: grave after him. Um. But it was in consecrated ground 655 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: in an actual cemetery, wasn't like tossed in a ditch 656 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: like right outside the medical school or anything like that. Um. 657 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: And so she made sure that he got a marker 658 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: UM put up on that grave in the last I 659 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: think the last couple of years she found it, and 660 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: maybe two thou two nineteen, I think even as recent 661 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: as that. Wow, that's pretty uh, pretty amazing. And then 662 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: one other thing, Chuck, did you do you remember when 663 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson um famously made a bid for the Elephant 664 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: Man's bones. I do, except that that did not happen. 665 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: That was all just a big cooked up rumor from 666 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: a man named Frank Dilio who said that Michael bid 667 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars and then a million dollars on the 668 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: bones of the elephant man, who was someone he apparently 669 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: felt very akin to and apparently that is not true, 670 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: and it was just sort of like the hyperbaric chamber 671 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: that that never happened. Uh, and Jackson ended up making 672 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: light of it a little bit and uh and they 673 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: Leave Me Alone short film by dancing with an animated 674 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: version his skeleton. Yeah, so that and that's really weird. 675 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: But the thing is, if you go back and search 676 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: that there are like associated press articles from about it, 677 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: and they they include quotes from people who work at 678 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: the London Hospital Medical College who said that they had 679 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: had turned down his offers. So it's it's really weird 680 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: because I mean I always had heard it was made 681 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: up as well. Yeah, I mean I think, um, it's 682 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: one of those things where they, i mean, his mom 683 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,919 Speaker 1: said it could have even come from ah from him 684 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: as far as not actually bidding on them, but just 685 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: to make up the story to get in the newspapers. Yeah. So, 686 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: I mean one of the things that just wanted to 687 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: make sure to drive home is that Joseph Merrik didn't 688 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: give up. I think that's why I was so bugged 689 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: by the idea that this this historian just so Cavalier 690 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: was like it was highly likely he committed suicide, even 691 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: though all the evidence points to the idea that he didn't. 692 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: But Joseph Merrick lived twenty seven years putting up with 693 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 1: some of the most humiliating, disparaging, terrible treatment that any 694 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: humans ever had to endure, and he did it with 695 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: like grace and dignity. He like read, and he wrote poetry, 696 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: and he like corresponded with people, and he had like 697 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: a gentle soft heart. And you know, finally, thanks to 698 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: things like you know, the stage play and David Lynch's movie, 699 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: he's he's been portrayed accurately in that sense. And I 700 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: think that that's great because I think that that's that 701 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: will be his legacy forever as somebody who was a 702 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: very admirable human being who put up with a lot 703 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: more than you know, I probably could have with with 704 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: dignity and grace. It's quite a story. Uh well, since 705 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: Chuck said is quite a story, that means that that's 706 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: it for the Elephant Man, and that it's time for 707 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: a listener mail. I'm gonna call this the ghost story. 708 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: Recently for the Halloween, we rereleased our ghost episode and 709 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: where I detailed the old lady I saw on Athens 710 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 1: in the middle of the road. And this comes from 711 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: Eric King. He said, I I thought i'd share this 712 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,240 Speaker 1: with you guys. Uh. In the episode of Unsolved Mysteries 713 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: that reminds me of this, there was a motorcyclist named 714 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 1: Robert Davidson who was struck by lightning after pulling to 715 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: the side of the road during a storm. When paramedics arrived, 716 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: the situation looked grim as a crowd began to gather 717 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: around the incident, A mysterious woman in a black dress 718 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 1: holding a bible appeared just like my lady. She bypassed 719 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: paramedics and began to pray over Davidson. After a few 720 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: tense moments of her chanting and beating her bible in 721 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: the ground, he began to show signs of life again. 722 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: The woman in the black dress smiled and then disappeared 723 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: amongst the crowd. Davidson wound up in a coma for 724 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: two months, but came out of it with no uh 725 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: no permanent injuries. Upon further investigation, it was found that 726 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: the road where he was struck was near a site 727 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: that was once a religious community in the mid eighteen hundreds. 728 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: The black dress witnesses claimed, Uh, the woman was wearing 729 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: a similar outfit to the one on display in a 730 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: museum containing artifacts from the site. So Eric says, I 731 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: think he thinks I should investigate mine a little bit more. 732 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: Maybe there was a similar religious site near there where 733 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: I saw the woman in black. And then it's from 734 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: Eric King and uh, he and his wife were big, 735 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: big listeners. Well thanks a lot, Eric, that was a 736 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: great one, appreciated big time. Um, Chuck, you're gonna do 737 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: some research. I was actually doing so anyway the other day. 738 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna keep it up. Oh cool man, 739 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: what do you have you found anything so far? Nothing? Okay? Well, yeah, 740 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: you've got to report back if you find even the 741 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: slightest shred of evidence of anything. Okay, of course. Uh. Well, 742 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: while we wait for Chuck's report on the source and 743 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 1: origin of his ghosts. Um, we'll leave you to it, 744 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: and you can write into us to say hi, and 745 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: how's it going with your research? Chuck? Write it in 746 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: an email and send it off to Stuff Podcast at 747 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a 748 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,959 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio for more podcasts for my heart Radio, 749 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: Is it the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 750 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,