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Speaker 1: Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. And boy, we got a treat for

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Speaker 1: you today. We are joined by our friend and our

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Speaker 1: former producer on this very show, Alex Williams. Say Hi, Alex,

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Speaker 1: reformed producer. What's going on? Man? Oh, you know, just

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Speaker 1: hanging out? What's what's up with you? Well? You know

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Speaker 1: we're we're just having a bonus episode in your honor.

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Speaker 1: That's what's going on here. Jeez. Thanks. Right before we

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Speaker 1: got going, we were sitting around talking about Riddick movies

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Speaker 1: for how long, I don't know. It was a while.

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Speaker 1: I was mostly listening because I hadn't seen the movie

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Speaker 1: in question, or any of the Riddeck movies. No, you're

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Speaker 1: here for a reason today, Alex, to tell us about it.

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Speaker 1: Oh uh, because of Ephemeral. I have a podcast called Ephemeral.

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Speaker 1: It's really good, folks, Yes it is. It's it's very

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Speaker 1: very exciting podcast because it's it's really unlike any podcast

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Speaker 1: I've listened to before, um in terms of its subject matter,

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Speaker 1: but also in terms of just like the high production

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Speaker 1: qualities that you bring to it. Oh, thank you. You

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Speaker 1: guys did a very nice time when you did. You

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Speaker 1: did the trailer, you put the trailer out in your

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Speaker 1: feed I think when it first came out, and you

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Speaker 1: did very nice endorsement then too about the audio quality,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was very sweet, So thank you. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that the outer quality is wonderful. But but

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Speaker 1: more but more important though, is the topic of dealing

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Speaker 1: with these ephemeral bits of media. Can you just you know,

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Speaker 1: speak to everybody who might not be familiar with the show,

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Speaker 1: they haven't checked it out, or maybe they didn't catch

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Speaker 1: the trailer drop. What are we talking about when we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the way that um Sarah Wasserman is the

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Speaker 1: Material Culture Studies uh A professor of Material Culture Studies

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Speaker 1: at the University of Delaware. The way that she sort

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Speaker 1: of differentiates what ephemera from other kinds of you know,

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Speaker 1: disposable things, junk trash, is that if Emira takes some

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Speaker 1: kind of curation, someone has to do some active saving

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Speaker 1: for it to to continue to exist, something like Winnebago Man.

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Speaker 1: Are familiar with Winnebago Man, of course, Well, I listened

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Speaker 1: to your episode where you deal with Winnebego Man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's the guy who is there outtakes of him trying

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Speaker 1: to record a TV commercial for Winnebagos. Is it a

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Speaker 1: dealership or a new model or something. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a dealer's ship. It's like the eighties VHS. The guy's

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Speaker 1: name is Jack Rebney and he's just getting so frustrated

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Speaker 1: on this day's shoes, complaining about how hot it is,

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Speaker 1: and he's just swearing continuously, just f this s than everything.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I guess he really piste off the crew

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Speaker 1: because they cut together this video of him, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of the worst moments, I guess in this sort

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Speaker 1: of compilation. Now, this is way twenty years before plus

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Speaker 1: twenty six maybe years before YouTube. Uh, and this compilation

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Speaker 1: video survived all this time, you know, just you know,

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Speaker 1: would just get you know, Oh you you might like

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Speaker 1: this thing, so I dubb it for you on VHS.

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Speaker 1: Robert might like it, so you dubb it for him

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Speaker 1: on VHS. It even aired on public television. This is

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Speaker 1: show cold. I guess was bleeped. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: haven't been able to find the copy of it that aired.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe that's the version that we have on

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Speaker 1: YouTube now. Um there's a show called The Show with

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Speaker 1: No Name out of in Austin, Texas that aired just

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Speaker 1: weird clips like things that are someone on savory sometimes

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Speaker 1: like James James Brown being arrested. Things like that when

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Speaker 1: James Brown he was doing a talk show and he

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Speaker 1: was uh he drugs or something. He seemed to be

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Speaker 1: in an altered state. Things like that that you know,

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Speaker 1: we're all there's tons and tons of him on YouTube now.

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Speaker 1: I think we've we've talked before about everything is terrible?

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Speaker 1: Is is a show on you What's it's a YouTube

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Speaker 1: channel and it goes beyond YouTube. But they do a

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Speaker 1: lot of this where it's it's clips from films and

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Speaker 1: like old like like weird Christian VHS tapes and either

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Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that would just otherwise just be

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Speaker 1: completely we just fall through the cracks of history. But

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Speaker 1: you know, they keep it alive so that weekend, you know,

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Speaker 1: find pleasure in it and laugh at it. Why is

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Speaker 1: it that instructional training videos makes such fertile like ephemeral media.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm just making a supposition, but I think

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Speaker 1: maybe because they're made sort of for such a narrow

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Speaker 1: audience and often with such little money. Uh, I can

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Speaker 1: just go onto archive dot org. There's or there's a

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Speaker 1: great site called the A V Geeks that just curate

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, old industrials and educational films and

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Speaker 1: p s A S. I can just get lost on

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Speaker 1: the rabbit hole of that stuff. It's so so bad

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Speaker 1: and so good well because I guess like if you

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Speaker 1: no skill goes into it, or like just a very

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Speaker 1: small amount of skill like that in and of itself

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Speaker 1: can be amusing. But then you have an instructional video

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Speaker 1: like the famous shake Hands with Danger, which has fantastic

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Speaker 1: and just almost the borderline offensive. Um, you know, graphic

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Speaker 1: special effects for industrial injuries taking place, and you know

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Speaker 1: it's out of keeping with the very amateur aspects of

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Speaker 1: the rest of the production. Oh, it's like the the

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Speaker 1: old high school chemistry lab safety videos that everybody loves

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Speaker 1: so much, which just would they had the special effects

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Speaker 1: for like shoving the broken glass speaker into your hand.

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Speaker 1: And so I think, yeah, all of that in at

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Speaker 1: least this particular definition. It's like those things all would

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Speaker 1: very easily because they you know, maybe because of the

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Speaker 1: narrow audience or because of maybe a bunch of different

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Speaker 1: reasons would not stand the test of time unless someone

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Speaker 1: only because somebody said, hey, this is different, this is

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Speaker 1: this is for some reason worth saving. Right, Yeah, Well

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Speaker 1: that's interesting to think about, Like what are the evolutionary

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Speaker 1: traits in media that allow certain pieces of media to

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Speaker 1: survive whereas most other pieces of ephemeral media from their

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Speaker 1: time fade away. It seems like a very strong, uh

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Speaker 1: criterion of selection is like ironic comedic value. But it can't.

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Speaker 1: But it can't be just that, right, There are other

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Speaker 1: things that cause a piece of you know, what you

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Speaker 1: would have thought would be ephemeral media to get saved, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like what are There's some things I know

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Speaker 1: you've talked about where you you uh you talked about

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Speaker 1: like old home recordings that aren't particularly funny or anything.

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Speaker 1: They just have a kind of soothing sonic quality to

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Speaker 1: them that you can't stop listening to. Am I right

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Speaker 1: about that? Sometimes they certainly are funny, But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I have really um, the very first couple of

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Speaker 1: minutes of the pilot episode of this that I pitched

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Speaker 1: it with, and that is the first epis just called

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Speaker 1: pilot in the in the feed. Uh is it's about

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Speaker 1: a hundred and sixteen seconds. I think of just a

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Speaker 1: family recording that we don't know any of the people.

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Speaker 1: And there's an Uncle Jack and there's a little girl

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Speaker 1: named Gail, and uh does it talk about shoes? Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that show Uncle Jack your shoes? There's a

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Speaker 1: little boy named Brian and there it's it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: so unique because there, I mean, it was an actual

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Speaker 1: moment in time, right, it was an actual people gather

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Speaker 1: around a living room or a kitchen or something, not

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Speaker 1: from a movie or anything. No, no, no, it's just

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Speaker 1: a it's it's it was a real to real that

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Speaker 1: this um, this collector named Bob Purse, who just for

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Speaker 1: you know, his own personal interest and to share them

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Speaker 1: with other people, goes to giant antique sales and you know,

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Speaker 1: a femork also all kinds and buys anything that's like

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Speaker 1: unlabeled or is you know, has an interesting description on it,

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Speaker 1: or it's just interesting. And someone looks old real to

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Speaker 1: real tape specifically other things too acetates Home record at

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Speaker 1: seventy eight of all kinds of odds and ends, but

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Speaker 1: specifically real and really to tape is what he's zeroed

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Speaker 1: in on um and so this real, real tape probably

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Speaker 1: from the sixties, AH, thought to be recorded around when

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Speaker 1: that Illinois I guess, or yeah, when Neck Illinois I

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Speaker 1: think is right because it's because of I guess of

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Speaker 1: where he bought it. Ah. That's this yes, specific moment

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Speaker 1: where the uncle Jack has brought over his tape recorder

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Speaker 1: to this family and the kids are going trying to

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Speaker 1: get kids to say there, you know, say words on it,

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Speaker 1: you know, tell them about the school that goes to

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Speaker 1: and the friends they have, and the little girls shy

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Speaker 1: at first, but then she opens up a little bit

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Speaker 1: and then the little kid, Brian, they're trying to get

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Speaker 1: him to kind of say some of his first words,

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Speaker 1: but he, of course won't because kids never do when

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Speaker 1: you try to put the microphone in their face and

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Speaker 1: now perform and starts shooting on the tape recorder. And

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Speaker 1: it's just a little tiny tape that's not all that

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Speaker 1: different than lots of other, you know, tapes, but it

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Speaker 1: is like this one family, it's this real moment that

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Speaker 1: we just have of Ye. I think I think part

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Speaker 1: of the appeal of that that cliff is just how

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Speaker 1: how how honest it feels like you just there's no

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Speaker 1: doubting that this is a you know, an echo from

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Speaker 1: from the past, from this actual family moment. And and

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Speaker 1: then at the same time it is it is kind

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Speaker 1: of haunting, like in a good way, like that that

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Speaker 1: kind of like you know, nostalgic haunting feeling that we

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Speaker 1: get when we listen to something that is either an

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Speaker 1: an actual fragment of media history or if something or

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Speaker 1: if we have something like say, you know, instantly think

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Speaker 1: of the music say Boards of Canada, that that are

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Speaker 1: able to channel that level of sonic nostalgia and have

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Speaker 1: the same effect on us. It's this isolated bubble of

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Speaker 1: unself conscious joy that is infectious because it doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like a performance, which is funny because I guess it

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Speaker 1: is a performance. I mean, the very thing is that

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Speaker 1: they had the tape recorder running, But it doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like the kind of performance were used to, the kind

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Speaker 1: of like a professional performance. We were not the intended audience, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know it was the family was the intended audience.

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Speaker 1: And uh and and here it has escaped it. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like a voyager probe, right, like leaving the

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Speaker 1: solar system and being picked up by some other force.

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Speaker 1: There's certainly magic and it I mean and I hear

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Speaker 1: that in all kinds. I mean, the the last episode

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Speaker 1: that we did of the season's the ten parts seasons

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Speaker 1: all out now, uh, the last episodes called taped over,

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Speaker 1: and we play family recordings from my family, my wife's family,

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Speaker 1: my best friends family and uh our producer and producer

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Speaker 1: and an ephemeral uh Matt Frederick who you know from

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Speaker 1: stuff I don't want you to know and other things. UM,

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Speaker 1: really fascinating take. He has a his grandfather recorded his mom,

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Speaker 1: Matt's mom and and Matt's uncle on a dick to

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Speaker 1: belt in which is incredibly early to have a home

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Speaker 1: recording from because recording technology was just mostly in professional settings,

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Speaker 1: you know, until really the sixties, when real to reel

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Speaker 1: became much you know, cheaper, and people could afford to

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Speaker 1: get them in their homes. Um, and it's the same,

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Speaker 1: it's it's uh, that's grandfather trying to get first words

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Speaker 1: from his mom. And mom of course like doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to play along because she's a baby and she's not

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Speaker 1: gonna perform just because you put a microphone in front

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Speaker 1: of her, starts crying, starts batting, the microphone around. I

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Speaker 1: this last weekend, I was with my my nieces and

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Speaker 1: nephews from Phoenix. They were over here and I was

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Speaker 1: visiting with them, and I had this old tape recorder

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Speaker 1: from the eighties and I was showing them how to

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Speaker 1: use it. And instantly there, you know, I can sometimes

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Speaker 1: not get them to look away from a screen, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they just they have a different childhood than we had.

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Speaker 1: But instantly, yes, they say, you know something in the

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Speaker 1: tape recorder, the shots they don't want to perform. I

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Speaker 1: let them hit the buttons, rewind it back. See the

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Speaker 1: tape has been hit play and they hear themselves say

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Speaker 1: you know, hi, I'm Brooks Savit or whatever. And they're

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Speaker 1: mesmerized and they don't want to they don't want to

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Speaker 1: put it down. You know. It's like, you have to

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Speaker 1: be careful this, this is an old thing from the eighties.

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Speaker 1: You have to you have to give it a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a more grace than you know, maybe your

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Speaker 1: iPad that's, you know, got this fancy case on it.

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Speaker 1: But I I think that there is I think there

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Speaker 1: is real magic and something like that. And so I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's intrinsic in the analog media itself,

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Speaker 1: or if I'm just nostalgic for it, or if it's

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Speaker 1: some kind of combination of those things. But there is

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Speaker 1: there's something there that cuts across. I guess that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. Now, you had a pre existing

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Speaker 1: interest in all of this, of course, I wonder is

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Speaker 1: there is there a particular piece of of of ephemera

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Speaker 1: that kind of you know, inspired you to put together

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Speaker 1: the show? And then is there an example of a

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Speaker 1: piece of a femor that you discovered in putting the

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Speaker 1: show together that really struck a chord with you? Lots um?

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Speaker 1: But that that first tape that show Uncle Jack your shoes,

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Speaker 1: those hundred and sixteen seconds were there what the show

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Speaker 1: is built around? The whole show? Uh? You know, our

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Speaker 1: producer Tristan McNeil and I were at a bar after

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Speaker 1: work one day pitching ideas back and forth because we

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Speaker 1: knew we wanted to do something, and Uh, I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I know this this tape in this collector Bob purse,

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Speaker 1: and there's something there and so it was kind of

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Speaker 1: trying to put my finger on that I might still

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Speaker 1: be working on that part of it, and then your

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Speaker 1: other question is something you discovered like some bit of

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Speaker 1: a him or that emerged that that that you it

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Speaker 1: was new to you during the production of the series.

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Speaker 1: It's been so much new to me. Um. One of

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Speaker 1: the most interesting UH has been learning about the Dumont

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Speaker 1: Television network, so at the very beginning of television when

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Speaker 1: it kind of gets out of his experimental phase and

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Speaker 1: goes commercial, which is basically like right at the end

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Speaker 1: of World War two. Um, there's four networks, just for

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Speaker 1: four networks and you know that get little affiliates all

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Speaker 1: over the country and three them are still around ABC, NBC, CBS,

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Speaker 1: and the fourth was Dumont, and Dumont was just maybe

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Speaker 1: a little bit more low budget. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: punk rock and just wacky stuff. I mean, early TV

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Speaker 1: was really wacky because it was all live and they

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Speaker 1: were shows and stuff. There were some puppet shows. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were you know, figuring out a lot of the things.

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Speaker 1: And some of the things that got figured out on

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Speaker 1: Dumont are are you know, translate to today. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they were the first network to do daytime television because radio.

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Speaker 1: Those are the three companies were all radio companies. ABC, NBC, CBS.

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Speaker 1: All radio companies had big daytime radio soap operas and

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Speaker 1: they didn't really want to cut into that business that

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Speaker 1: had been paying their bills for a long time. But

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Speaker 1: Dumont was the first network that went into that daytime

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Speaker 1: broadcast because like, we don't have any income coming in there,

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Speaker 1: and we're ready to take our color patterns down off

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Speaker 1: the screen and put something on. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: they had a show called Okay Mother, a show for moms,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, certainly couched in the gender attitudes

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Speaker 1: of the time. UM that was you know, pretty similar

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Speaker 1: to something that you would see like the Today's Show

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Speaker 1: or something now live studio audience playing you know, games,

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Speaker 1: giving away prizes, bringing on guests and sort of just

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Speaker 1: light goofy energy to it. Um. So, you know, to

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Speaker 1: to wrap up the two months, I meant, they were

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Speaker 1: on the there for just a decade, something like twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand broadcasts or hours of broadcast and I think three

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Speaker 1: d or so individual episodes have survived, mostly held by

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Speaker 1: like individual collectors like maybe someone who's you know relative

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Speaker 1: worked at Dumont, or you know, the National Archives, uh,

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Speaker 1: the Museum of televi and of Radio maybe has a

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Speaker 1: few of them, and most of it's just gone. It's

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Speaker 1: just gone because it was there was no there real

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Speaker 1: there was no recording then, and it wasn't even meant

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Speaker 1: to last forever. The only way that they could record

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Speaker 1: it was doing something making a kinescope, which is you

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Speaker 1: take a film camera and you film the screen that's

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Speaker 1: playing the television. And the only reason they would do

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Speaker 1: that is so they could take that film, candle this

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Speaker 1: film cans and send it to you know, their California

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Speaker 1: affiliate or something that wasn't connected to the Coaxio cable.

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Speaker 1: And even those they wouldn't really save because there was

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Speaker 1: no reruns back then, right, there was no intention to

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Speaker 1: reuse that. So it's just that active curation someone saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, either by choice or by accident, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna hold onto this that we get to see any

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Speaker 1: of it, and kind of dip our toes into that

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Speaker 1: that moment of history. Well you also get a sense,

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Speaker 1: I mean, no wonder if you'd think, like, did the

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Speaker 1: creators not even think of it really as a an

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Speaker 1: artistic product, I mean something that they would want to

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Speaker 1: be remembered. It was something more like to fill time.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a mix, and I think, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's one of the inherent things in television. Probably

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Speaker 1: there's certainly were um artists and very creative people. I

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Speaker 1: mean Jackie Gleeson got his break on Dumont for instance,

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Speaker 1: a fascinating shows that they did, a show that was

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Speaker 1: all it was called The Plain Clothes Men and all

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Speaker 1: told from the perspective of a detective like from his eyes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: town live single camera shot, yeah, and you see his

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Speaker 1: hands and it's you know, zoom in on a bullet

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Speaker 1: hole on the wall, or hold a piece of paper

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Speaker 1: and take a magnifying glass and pull out of single

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Speaker 1: line what and that's all lives. They'd have to stage

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Speaker 1: all of that out in advance so that they could

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Speaker 1: know where to go and win. Well, it was all

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Speaker 1: live to a point, so almost all of it was live,

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Speaker 1: but then they would play out sometimes they would the

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Speaker 1: way to a sequence that actually what edited. It was

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Speaker 1: an early example of putting editing on television because editing

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Speaker 1: wasn't a thing on early television. But yeah, primarily that

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Speaker 1: show was all told live. And there's one episode left

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't circulate. It's in the uh Museum of

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Speaker 1: Television radio. I'm hoping to make my way up there

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Speaker 1: at some point and see it. I've just seen a

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Speaker 1: little clip of it. You know. I think back just

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Speaker 1: on the television from like my childhood and especially junior high.

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Speaker 1: You know where you're you're videotaping a lot of television,

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Speaker 1: and I remember like painstakingly removing commercials. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: other times just you know, you were you were recording

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Speaker 1: a movie you have, you went to bed or something,

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Speaker 1: so you just let the commercials, you know, take place,

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Speaker 1: and inevitably, I think like taped over and or loss

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Speaker 1: or destroyed all those tapes and and and now I

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Speaker 1: would I would love to just be able to like

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Speaker 1: sit down and watch say an episode of Mystery Science

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Speaker 1: Theater three thousand from the nineties with all the commercials,

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Speaker 1: just so I could experience that again. Uh, the bumpers

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Speaker 1: on stuff like the Sci Fi Channel, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like that's those little details are are some of the

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Speaker 1: things you grow the most most doubt and nostalgic for.

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Speaker 1: You know, I watched the first time I ever watched

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Speaker 1: Star Trek. The Next Generation was my My dad was

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Speaker 1: a is and I think I inherit a lot of

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Speaker 1: this from him a archivist, you know, tape at all,

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Speaker 1: label at all. Yeah, you know, uh, and he still

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Speaker 1: has a closet full of VHS types that are just

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Speaker 1: sort of degrading there because I mean, uh, the the

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Speaker 1: experience you describe with like cutting out the commercials is

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Speaker 1: something that I don't think you're younger listeners probably will

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Speaker 1: relate to it all because it's just such a it's

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Speaker 1: such a relic of the past. But that was an

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Speaker 1: important thing then, because it was this feeling like not

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Speaker 1: only am I taping uh the like the television edited

364
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Speaker 1: version of Aliens, but but I am going to preserve

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Speaker 1: it forever, and so the cut has to be flawless. Wait,

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Speaker 1: so did you think do you do the thing where

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Speaker 1: you stopped recording while it was recording when the commercial

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Speaker 1: came on? You thought, positive, recording while the commercial was

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Speaker 1: on and then unposit When I remember, I was so

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Speaker 1: proud of myself that I had put together on one tape.

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Speaker 1: So since it was on one tape, it must have

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Speaker 1: been in the terrible low quality extended play mode on

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Speaker 1: the tapes. But I got the entire Star Wars trilogy

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Speaker 1: with all the commercials removed from from one time when

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Speaker 1: it aired on T N T or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and uh and I was like, this is that I

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Speaker 1: have done such good work here and I wore that

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Speaker 1: tape out. Oh God, that that's another thing, just the

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Speaker 1: wearing out of the tape, like the quality. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite films still one of my favorite films, but

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite films growing up was was Jim

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Speaker 1: Hinson's Labyrinth and our copy we watched it so many

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Speaker 1: times that it it was like damaged and we had

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Speaker 1: to get repaired. I I didn't even know how that

385
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Speaker 1: was the thing, but we took the tape, somebody repaired it,

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Speaker 1: and it just sound warped forever. But now when I

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Speaker 1: watched like a Labyrinth off of streaming service or something,

388
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 1: or off of DVD, it's just not the same because

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Speaker 1: it's not warped and weird. Like the audio quality I

390
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: grew used to uh so in in the effemeray that

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Speaker 1: you've looked at in the show, like how much is

392
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Speaker 1: the decay and how much is it about the the

393
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Speaker 1: errors in the quality? Oh? I mean yeah, I'm an

394
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: audio I'm an audio file. I'm a total audio gig.

395
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Speaker 1: I mean specifically for like low five stuff, I've always

396
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: collected old toy tape recorders and stuff like that. So yeah,

397
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: the artifacts, that stuff is a gold mine for a

398
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Speaker 1: sound designer. I mean, just if you can find cracks

399
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Speaker 1: and records and skips and things and warps and sounds

400
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: dumping and leaping, and I love all that stuff. This

401
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: comes back to something that we've talked about on the

402
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 1: show a good bit before, like when we talk about say,

403
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Speaker 1: historical sites of interest, you know, like an ancient temple

404
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Speaker 1: or something like that that is deteriorating due to the

405
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 1: elements or all that, Like, um, should you restore things

406
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Speaker 1: like that? Or or if you know, the modern world

407
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: has come to know an ancient temple in its partially

408
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: deteriorated and dilapidated state, should you just allow it to

409
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: continue deteriorating or should you try to freeze it as

410
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: it was at a certain point in time and say, Okay,

411
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Speaker 1: all the deterioration up to this point will allow, but

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Speaker 1: deterioration after that we want to prevent or I can't

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Speaker 1: remember if we I said allowing to deteriorate or restoring,

414
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Speaker 1: but it seems like in any case, you're no matter

415
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: which choice you make, you're like exerting your will on

416
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: on on on the form it takes. And the same

417
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: thing happens with media totally. Like I mean, media changes

418
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: over time, It collects artifacts, it collects changes, it collects glitches. Um,

419
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Speaker 1: and I wonder, well, one thing I wonder I guess

420
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Speaker 1: is are we losing that quality in the digital world.

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Speaker 1: M hmm, it's sorry, terrible tangent. There's just no, there's

422
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: just a lot there, uh, losing in the digital world.

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Speaker 1: I mean the safe answer is yes, because we're losing

424
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Speaker 1: most things in the well No, I just mean, like

425
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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's like a huge thing where like, um,

426
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: there there's so much great ephemeira from the ancient world.

427
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: You know that like a huge part of how we

428
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: know about the past is from like capturing bits of

429
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: ephemera and interesting things, like you know, when you get

430
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: a copy of an ancient manuscript that's a thousand years old,

431
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: you might not even know what the original text in

432
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: the manuscript was because it's got things written in the

433
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: margins on it, and you don't know if that's supposed

434
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: to be part of the text that was the Perpendicularly

435
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: over the other talents, we have an older episode of

436
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 1: stuffable in mind about that, yeah, and and so like

437
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: and and they didn't realize at the time that, like,

438
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, whatever mong in, you know, Prague or wherever it. Like,

439
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: I didn't know that his copy of this thing would

440
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: be the only copy, would be the only one that

441
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: future generations have, and so like they wouldn't be able

442
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 1: to tell if the notes in the margins were supposed

443
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: to be part of the text or his own thoughts

444
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: about the text or whatever. And uh, and like you

445
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: never know, really, you never know if like the copy

446
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: that you're holding of something is going to end up

447
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: being the copy of reference for future generations, or if

448
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: it's just going to fade and be destroyed like most

449
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: other things are. The digital world that seems kind of

450
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: different because like copies are made at scale, perfectly all

451
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: over the place, And I wonder if we're kind of

452
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: losing some of that magic because of it. I mean,

453
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: it's it's it's twofold at least, right. Uh, there is

454
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: a way in which something physical analog is much more concrete.

455
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you can the lifespan of it. You can say,

456
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: oh my, I can see the yellowing pages of this book,

457
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: but I can still flip through them, as opposed to

458
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: like if a zero in a one get flipped in

459
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: the binary code, that thing's gone. Uh you know, if

460
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: it's uploaded in some cloud service that gets hacked, it's gone. Uh.

461
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: So there's a way in which analog things I hate

462
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: to say permanent, because I don't think anything is permanent, particularly,

463
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: I think everything has transience at a different scale. Yeah,

464
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: that's that's how you start feeling if you look at

465
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: it too much, at least me. Um. But there's a

466
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: way that that material thing feels a lot like it

467
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: has more launchevy to me than the digital thing, which

468
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: is maybe contrary to the way that uh, you know,

469
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: I saw it before that it's easiest to see it.

470
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell you one of the one of

471
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: the great things about more and more things being digitized,

472
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: because not everything is digitized, far from it, right, Uh,

473
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: But like this show where we do I don't know,

474
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: I've never counted, but like a hundred and fifty cues

475
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: an episode of different sound bites and pieces of weird

476
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: old movies and little audio clips and all things small

477
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: over the place would not it would be next to impossible,

478
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: were very very difficult in um an analog time where

479
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have wax cylinders in there, all kinds

480
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: of all kinds of media that you know, imagine the

481
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: library that we'd have to have here in the I

482
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: heard offices for us to pull something like this off,

483
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: but I can you know, it can just be you know,

484
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: a dude sitting at his desk going archive dot org

485
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: and uh, you know various other places. So I mean,

486
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty amazing. I'd love to, you know.

487
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: I was just when we're saying, oh, the monk didn't

488
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: know that this would be the one copy. I was thinking,

489
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: what if Joe's perfect copy of the Star Wars trilogy

490
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: was the one copy that we had then? No, I

491
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: think about that kind of thing sometimes, but I mean

492
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: I think that would be unlikely. Now there's so many

493
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: digital copies and they're all over the place. But yeah,

494
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: your copy to YouTube, Okay, I mean maybe doing you know,

495
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: because well you know, another great example to go to

496
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: go even to Star Wars is And this combines with

497
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: the thing you were talking about, like a femeral TV

498
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: broadcast when you watch the Star Wars Holiday special. I

499
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: assume you've seen it. I have, Yeah, I have thanks,

500
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: Thanks Dad. The Star Wars Holiday Special is that you know,

501
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: Star Wars is the biggest movie in the world, and

502
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,239
Speaker 1: you know it's the biggest media sensation ever. And then

503
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: they're like, well, let's do a TV special. But the

504
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: TV special is just phoned in and you almost get

505
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: the sense that it's well, not the animated The animated

506
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: short that introduced a Bubba fet to the world is fabulous,

507
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: like this French animation style. You're right about that, but

508
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: I mean, like the main part of it, like the

509
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: actors are staring at the floor, they're just waiting for

510
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: any basically a Star Wars theme variety show exactly. Uh.

511
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: And it's great fun to watch now for all these

512
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: great ephemeral qualities and to see the old commercials and

513
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: all that. But that's one of the great things. Like

514
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: even the version you get through riff tracks is it

515
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: can it retains the commercials, that's part. And but they

516
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: have to specify which one because like there weren't many

517
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: recordings of it available. They never officially distributed it, Like

518
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, Lucasfilm wasn't like here come by the Star

519
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: Wars Holiday Special. You had to get it from a

520
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: copy made from some version that somebody taped off of

521
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: TV and like Minnesota or somewhere, and uh and I

522
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: think there were a few versions in circulation, but I

523
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: don't know if those people thought that like their version

524
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: they were taping off of TV with the local commercials

525
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: they were seeing, would be like the would be the

526
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: version that ends up being you know, on riff tracks

527
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: that you know, decades later people all around the world

528
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: would be watching and laughing at I was gonna say

529
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: that with Star Trek the Next Generation, the way that

530
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: I first saw it was all taped from Michigan television,

531
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: whatever Michigan station it was running on, and every ad

532
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: break they had the newscast, the local Detroit newscast every time,

533
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: so I would you know, hear whatever was going on

534
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: in Detroit in the eighties every time they would cut

535
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: to commercial. So I guess, yeah, I I've definitely developed

536
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: a love for that early on. That's in the Star

537
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: Wars Holiday special to where they've got the throws like

538
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: teasing the later local news things. What do they keep saying,

539
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: like fighting the frizzies at eleven. I don't remember that part.

540
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: This is a thing about like bad hair days or

541
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: something they're gonna have an expert. Come on, well, you know,

542
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: let's let's bring it back to h to ephemeral. Though

543
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: you have a you have brought a clip with us. Uh.

544
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: It's almost like this is the Tonight show and you're

545
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: our guest, and so would you like to set up

546
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: this clip for our listeners? Sure? So. This is um

547
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: Professor of English and Material Culture Studies at the University

548
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: of Delaware. I introduced her earlier, Sarah Wasserman. She's basically

549
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: I think of her as the ephemer teacher. She's writing

550
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: a book called The Death of Things. It's all about

551
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: a phemera. You know, I don't. I don't want to

552
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: oversimplify her thesis, but the idea of it is that

553
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: telling stories about if ema and telling stories that involve

554
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: if phemera does more than just showing you a phemera.

555
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: It helps fill in the gaps and do more work

556
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: to transport you back to that place or time or

557
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: whatever thing that you know is lost now. So she

558
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: in her book, I think she writes about like They're

559
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Great Gatsby. She references that in here and uh and

560
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: a book like El Doctors, World's Fair Books, that piece

561
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: of fiction specifically, she's writing about fiction coming from an

562
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: English perspective. Um, how works of fiction can use if

563
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: ema and intertwine them into their stories. Uh two, help

564
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: transport you in time and space. Yeah, I think that's

565
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: enough of a setup. Let's listen, Phemera. I think are

566
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: especially moving because they seem to have their own life cycle.

567
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: They're made, they're born, they enter circulation, they live, and

568
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: then they die. We think of things. We think of

569
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: matter as being the opposite of mortal. We think of

570
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: it as being enduring. We think of it as being

571
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: stable and inert. And ephemia have this kind of time scale,

572
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: this temporal dimension that makes them seem mortal like us.

573
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the reason that authors find

574
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: them meaningful. They can become proxy stand ins for humans

575
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: or nations or communities. To make that more concrete, take

576
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: an example, New York World's Fair was actually built on

577
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: the Valley of Ashes, as Fitzgerald calls it. In the

578
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Great Gatsby five million dollar one land, they transform what

579
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: is basically a dump into this bright, shining, gleaming future

580
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: city and everyone goes, I mean really everyone in a

581
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: way that we can't comprehend today. Everyone goes from Barana,

582
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: come Countment, visiting by every mode of travel, every means

583
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: of transportation. They arrived to view the marvels of the

584
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: greatest ex position in history. You go and you say, oh,

585
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: this is the world of tomorrow, this is the world

586
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: as it could be. There are all kinds of problems

587
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 1: with the vision that gets staged. I mean racial problems,

588
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: nationalistic problems, colonial issues, all sorts of things, but in

589
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: that particular instance, people knew that it wouldn't be there.

590
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: The fair was a temporary installation, like a carnival set

591
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: up in Queens. It was open for two seasons from

592
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: April to October, and closed permanently as most of the

593
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: participating countries sank into another World war. That experience, knowing

594
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: that it's going to be gone feels exhilarating but melancholic

595
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, and so the souvenir craze,

596
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, the souvenir boom is huge around that fair

597
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: because people want to take something with them so that

598
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: when the air is gone, when they're no longer there,

599
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: but also the buildings are gone, they have something to

600
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: remember it by. The Paris here and the trialon were

601
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: the two iconic buildings and they get sort of put

602
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: on everything rises above all else, and the circling helocline

603
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: that leads even the Paris. There's exhibits. Democracy is the

604
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: pathway to the future. One of my favorite super years

605
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: is after you came out of Futurama, which was General

606
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: Motors Vision and sort of model city of the future,

607
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: you would get a little button that says I have

608
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: seen the future. Sensational is the Futurama that projects you

609
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: into nineteen six the Highways and a Rizon show. You

610
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: know that you have this item, this object that's going

611
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: to commemorate this event. It almost feels like it's shoring

612
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: up against that feeling of mortality. Susan Stewart talks about

613
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: the souvenir as an object that you need when an

614
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: event is no longer repeatable. So if you go to

615
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: your arian and Grande con or, you want the ticket

616
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: stuff because you're probably not going to go to another

617
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande show where you're certainly not going to go

618
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: to the one in Philadelphia, and so you need an

619
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: object because it's not repeatable. Many ephemera are doing that work.

620
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 1: There are kind of saying I was there, I saw

621
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: this thing. It's gone now, but I save it, and

622
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: that allows me to project myself into the future, to

623
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: project myself into the past, to stave off that encounter

624
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: with death that might be implicitly happening. Listen to the

625
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: rest of this episode and the full first season of

626
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: Ephemeral Now. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, the I Heart Radio app,

627
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, and learn more at Ephemeral

628
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: dot Show. All right, well, wow, this is fresh on

629
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: everybody's mind. Can you just just tell listeners where they

630
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: can find if if fhemeral and uh and also what

631
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: the homepages It's Ephemeral dot Show. If you don't spell ephemeral,

632
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: just google it. It's easy to find. I had someone

633
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: write me a review that was five stars, but the

634
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: told me they could not spell it their heady google it.

635
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: But I appreciated that. I appreciate that they did that

636
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: extra work. But it's not it's not too hard, you know,

637
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: to to to find and you know, it's on all

638
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: the social media things. Podcasts available anywhere. You can do

639
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: it on the I Heart radio app or Apple or

640
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: Stitcher or what everything. If you go to the website,

641
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: there's like, you know, some images and some links and

642
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: a little bit more information, but yeah, easy to find.

643
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: All the episodes are out now and uh and our

644
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: our future episodes planned. You have some ideas kicking around,

645
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and say, yes, we're in

646
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: work works on the second season right now, so we're

647
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: technically off season right now. We've already released one bonus episode,

648
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: which is the full length interview with our lovely producer

649
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick about that old family recording, and lots lots

650
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: of other things in between now and then and second

651
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: season and hopefully not all that long. It took us

652
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: about eighteen months to do the first season, but we

653
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: had a lot to figure out and there was a

654
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: lot of other stuff going on. So hopefully not quite

655
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: that long, but it could be, well, I hope not.

656
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: It's it's a really fantastic show. What I've heard of

657
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: it I absolutely adore and I can't wait to finish listening. Well,

658
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: thank you, Joe. Yeah, I mean it's really it's it's

659
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of

660
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: podcasts out there. I mean, I mean, I mean, honestly,

661
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's it's there's a disturbing world we're

662
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: living in, and there are a lot of shows that that,

663
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: by necessity and sometimes very bravely deal with the disturbing

664
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 1: aspects of of our reality. Uh, but did your show

665
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: has a you know, it's it's such a more comforting

666
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: feel to it, you know, I can I feel like

667
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: I'm I'm settling into like a nice warm glass of

668
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: milk when I listened to That's not all rainbows. I

669
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: mean there's some there's some darker aspects of human history

670
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: and there too, Yeah, but hopefully yeah there. You know,

671
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: it's you can listen to it with your kids. I mean,

672
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: it's like it's not it's not you know, dirty or anything.

673
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: I listened to the first episode with my son in

674
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: the car and uh, and he was digging it to

675
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, because he can. He's identifying with all this

676
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: is a family. I'm listening to a family. Uh, you know,

677
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: talk about shoes. That Shoes tape is definitely a hot

678
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: cup of tea. It's a good one, man. I love

679
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah. Before we close things out or even

680
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: consider closing things out, though, let's talk about William Castle

681
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: because because Joe, we're talking about this a little before

682
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: the podcast. But Joe and I did an episode about

683
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: the Tingler Love the Tangler and yeah, and and so

684
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm just happy to have somebody in here who is

685
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: a fan of the film. My parents instilled in me

686
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: a real love for just creature feature B movies. Uh

687
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: and you know, specifically like the work of the Wonderful

688
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: Ed Wood, but all kinds of other things and the

689
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: original Mystery Science three thousands or Mr. Science Theater three

690
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: thousand and all things like that. So, yeah, Tangler, what

691
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: Vincent Price, Yeah you have Vincent Price? Uh? Directed by

692
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: William Castle and just a yeah, just a really wonderful,

693
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: wonderful film in its own right, you know, I mean,

694
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: just has such a weird premise and then the gimmick,

695
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: the William Castle gimmick of the vibrating uh uh theater

696
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: seats I would have loved to have. I don't think

697
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: i've you know, short of something like three D I

698
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever really been to him movie

699
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: a theatrical release that had a gimmick as part of it. Ye, Pokemon,

700
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: they gave away cards. I went into the Pokemon movie

701
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: when that came out. There's certainly some giveaway things that

702
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: I went to specifically as a kid, you know, But

703
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: that's not like something where you know, there's a a

704
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: four D element or you know, some sort of thing

705
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: that happened in the theater. Yeah, I don't think I've

706
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: ever gotten to experience that with a theatrical release. What

707
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: was it that the Scream films postulated was that the

708
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: new gimmick in movie theaters would be releasing an actual

709
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: murderer into the movie theater. It's a horror movie. Well,

710
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things we could have done

711
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: with different films, Like take Titanic. They could have missed

712
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: the audience with salt water during the final scenes, like

713
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: nice cold saltwater. That would have been interesting. Now I

714
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: have seen Rocky Horror here in Atlanta at the Plaza,

715
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: and they do you know, they're saying, yeah, there's there's

716
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: a lot of fun shenanigans that take place, and that's

717
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: pretty great. I mean, that's that in it. I have

718
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: I love Rocky are and for a number of reasons,

719
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: and and I'm I'm perfectly happy to watch it again

720
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: and again just straight up without any theatrical shenanigans. But

721
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: like that is kind of like the pre mystery Science

722
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: Theater three thousand, riffing tradition right there, and uh and

723
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: it continues to be like this, this cool kind of

724
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: this is kind of like counterculture experience for the movie

725
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: going experience that people can partake of, especially like younger

726
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: of people. So yeah, I'm glad that Atlanta as a

727
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: place where one can still find that. I do think

728
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: folks like William Castle, Yeah, I think he was aware

729
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: of the sort of you know, the crowd that he

730
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: was going for the sort of work he was doing.

731
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: But also, you know, I feel exuberants from him and

732
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: some of the in in the way that he works,

733
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, like we're we are pushing a medium forward,

734
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: like we're trying weird things, you know, and in the effort,

735
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: in the effort of like you know, driving ticket sales. Right. Well,

736
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: one thing I will say about The Tingler is that

737
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: it is um it is not a dull movie. I mean,

738
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: it is fun and full of energy. I mean, he

739
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: was somebody who remembered that movies are supposed to be fun.

740
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people making movies that. I mean, obviously,

741
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: not all movies are supposed to be fun. Some movies

742
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: are very serious, so they ask challenging questions and all that.

743
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: But I see trails all the time for movies that

744
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: just do not look fun and exactly like you know,

745
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: monster movies. Generally, monster movies are supposed to be fun.

746
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: Uh And and he remembered that. I think he was

747
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: aware of that, even you know, even schlocky or directors

748
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: Roger Corman, I think was aware that monster movies are

749
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: supposed to be fun primarily. Uh. So, you know, he

750
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: could make Attack of the Crab Monsters and it's like

751
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: sixty two minutes long or whatever, and it's kind of

752
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: a brisk pace and it's got some googly eyed creatures

753
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: and it doesn't get bogged down and uh, you know,

754
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, bad depressing, bad feelings like so many horror

755
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: movies do these days. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm

756
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,959
Speaker 1: I'm seriously being turned off horror. I think I'm it's

757
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: like every I keep seeing trailers for things and I'm

758
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: just like that just doesn't Maybe it's just me, but

759
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: what about Mandy Mandy? Mandy? I enjoyed even though it's

760
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: a revenge film, and revenge films aren't really my my

761
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: my like my go to franchise, but it was so funny.

762
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: It was such a goofy movie. Yeah, and beautiful. I

763
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: mean I love the I love Panos's style and the cinematography,

764
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: love the music, and well, yeah, ultimately I love that

765
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: almost as much as I love Beyond the Black Rainbow,

766
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: which is I pulled up as one of my favorites

767
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: or something like stranger things like that's a monster movie,

768
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: that's or monster idea. I'm sure a movie. Yeah, but

769
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 1: but it's also exceedingly fun. Yeah, And I think that's

770
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: one of the the appeals of the It movie that

771
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: came out the addiction of the first half of Stephen

772
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: King's novel is that, yes, it was terrifying. You had

773
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: all these terrifying penny Wise moments, and penny Wise was

774
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: fabulously brought to it to life. But yet it found

775
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: ways to have have fun with the children in in

776
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: in the in the in the in the movie, like

777
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: those characters were brought alive in such a you know,

778
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: a believable way. There was a Spielbergie and emotionality to it. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

779
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: Is the Child's Play thing out yet? Yeah, because that's

780
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: just that's a tenpole one for me. Like I watched

781
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: Child's Play over. I think probably on TV, like the

782
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: TV edited broadcast, but I definitely saw all of those

783
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: movies all the way, at least up to Bride of

784
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: that's the one with Jennifer at Tilly. Did Brad Durro

785
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: keep doing the voice? I don't think he's in the

786
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: new one, but he was in like all the others.

787
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: That would be My main thing is if Brad Dorrith's

788
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: not in it, then what what's the point it's But

789
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 1: it's the same folks that did the ITA, Yeah, the reboot? Okay,

790
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: well then then I believe maybe I should give it

791
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: a shot. I don't know. It's one of the like

792
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: where I not all that in many things like reboots,

793
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: I feel compelled to see like I have to. But

794
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, Child's plays one of those just like

795
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: yeah whatever, Like I guess maybe because the first one

796
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: wasn't like that amazing. Maybe it was that it's been

797
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: a while so it's got the mom from Seventh Heaven

798
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: on it. I think you're not wrong. The only thing

799
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: that I feel also compelled to say about The Tingler

800
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: before we wrap it up is a vincnent Price's ability

801
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: to say ludicrous short lines with just poise and just

802
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: really sell it, you know. Well, no, that's one of

803
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: the best things about The Tingler actually, is the frequency

804
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: with which characters say the words the Tingler, and so

805
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: Vincent Price is just constantly saying things like, what do

806
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: we know about the Tingler? And they're they're counting off

807
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: their knowledge. They're like, we've discovered that there is a

808
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: Tingler inside everyone. God. Yeah. One of the things that

809
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: amazes me is that it just hasn't It hasn't been remade,

810
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: and I've never read any discussion of anyone even adding

811
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: to remake it or rebooted or what have you, despite

812
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: the fact that the William Castle film immediately preceding it,

813
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: The House on Haunted Hill, was of course remade, and

814
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: I thought it really fun, uh Haunted House movie. And

815
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: then the film immediately after it, Thirteen Ghosts, was also

816
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: made into a film, which was maybe a little less solid. Yeah.

817
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: I think I saw the movie theater as well, and

818
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: it was it was fun, you know, it was a

819
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: fun monster movie. Really think that might have suffered from

820
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: that sort of early MTV music video vibe too, But

821
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: it's been a long time since they saw it. I

822
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: remember Roger Ebert's review of the Thirteen Ghosts remake. Just commenting,

823
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: he says opened with like, this is certainly one of

824
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: the loudest films I've ever seen. Yeah, I think it

825
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: had that. It had some jarring cinematography and it for sure,

826
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: but it also had f Murray Abraham, so it all

827
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: bounces out. Um Man. I could see a remake of

828
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: The Tingler that could go either way. You could get

829
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 1: it in the hand to somebody who's a real lover,

830
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: who's got the joy and all that. It could also

831
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: be a joyless c G I slog with computer animated worms.

832
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: But I think if you like leaned into the more

833
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: psychedelic aspects of the piece, I think you could make

834
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: it work. Because, as we discussed in in our episode,

835
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: like it is allegedly the earliest mention of L S

836
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: D in a major motion picture. Uh and and I

837
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: think that they're there are aspects of its really whackadoodle

838
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: plot that that are that are reflected by that. Who

839
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: could you recast for the Vincent Price role? Who? Um?

840
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: What about Jeremy Irons? Richard Jenkins? Yeah, yeah, he's great

841
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: and everything. Yeah, Yeah, Jenkins is solid. Um Ian McKellen

842
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 1: he's probably too old at this death. I know he's done.

843
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: I know, but this could be coming back, bringing it

844
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: back around, you know, I I have. I'm a little

845
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: bit tired of Johnny Depp. You know what he's great

846
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: in is Edwood. Yes, he is fantastic in them. That

847
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: was Johnny Depp and Tim Burton both in their in

848
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: their period where they were just unstoppable. I thank something

849
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: around that. What happened to those guys? I don't think

850
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: I could watch a Tim Burton movie now. But like

851
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: Edwood is one of the best movies ever made. I

852
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: love it. It's it's I don't I don't know. I

853
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: don't know why. That sort of seems to be the

854
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: story you see over and over in media and more

855
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: specifically in Hollywood. But yeah, those they do seem to

856
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: have passed their prime. But I don't know. I mean,

857
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: how old is Johnny Depp? He's like in his forties way,

858
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: But but then again we're asking the questions like how

859
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: could somebody lose their you know, creative zeal and or

860
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: their actual soul in Hollywood. Hollywood is known for consuming

861
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: these two quantities, sometimes they like at rapid speed, right

862
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: from the very beginning to right from the very beginning

863
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: of Hollywood. Yeah, yeah, Edwood never lost it. No, that's

864
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: not true, Edwards, not true. He did kind of lose

865
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: it and like he drank himself to death. Yeah, there's

866
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 1: there's that great like Bride of the Bride of the energy,

867
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: Bright of the Monster has slashed Bright of the atom,

868
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: right of the changed a couple of times, I think exactly.

869
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: But that movie's got just fantastic. It's a rush, you know,

870
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: it's got Lobo and it's got you know, the whipping

871
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: and oh, it's a great great Bill Legos see and

872
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: uh and even you know playing nine Bill Leghos. He

873
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 1: wasn't really in it, but it was his last film.

874
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: Well he's in a couple of shots, I guess. Yeah,

875
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: for one shot. Maybe it's it's a few. I just

876
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: rewatched the whole movie, and it is it's a few.

877
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: It's maybe three. But that's still got great energy. I

878
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: think later on it would went on to he started

879
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 1: making kind of like, yeah, there's a there's a sort

880
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: of connection between um. One of the reasons that Tim

881
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 1: Burton cited for wanting to do the Edward Edward movie

882
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: was his relationship with Vincent Price because you know he's

883
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: a big fan of Vincent Myra Scissor Hands as a kid.

884
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: And uh, and then Vincent Price ended up working on

885
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: like his first short, I think, and they worked together twice.

886
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: I believe that a similar to the way. Similarly the

887
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 1: relationship that ed Wood had with Belle LECOSI, what's so,

888
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: what's the next one? What's the next one? That continuum,

889
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: that's how you get to play Vincent Price. In The

890
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: Young Filmmaker befriends tom Atkins. He's that like the elder

891
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: statesman of Horror. Uh, tom Atkins gets a late career revival. Oh,

892
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: maybe tom Atkins can play the the Vincent Price role

893
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: in the Tingler remain he's more rough and tumble when

894
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: he's not Vincent Price type. But you could recast the

895
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: character could become more of a kind of like cores

896
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: drinking kind of scientists, more of a roused dour in

897
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: Rowsed Dour. It was a dowry and roused dowry in

898
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: Hero Yes, Yeah, that would okay if it's yeah, I'm

899
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: on board for that. As long as it gets remade,

900
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm on board. I hope that they vibrate the seats

901
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: in the theaters. Oh yes, I hope that makes it

902
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: come back. I want to see more gimmicks like that

903
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: in the theater. I feel like they need to do it,

904
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 1: that they want me to show up and go through

905
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: all the whole rigmarole to come in and see the film.

906
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: Why else would you? Yeah, well, we will have giant

907
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: flat screens at home and everything on demand. Then again,

908
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: I wonder maybe what we need are more intermissions or

909
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: those specialized intermissions like William Castle used one of these

910
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: where you're supposed to take an intermission right before the

911
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: climax of the film to decide if you've got what

912
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: it takes and if you don't, you can go and

913
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: get a refund and leave. Or there was a werewolf film,

914
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: the Werewolf Break. Yeah, we had the Werewolf Break where

915
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 1: you had to decide who is the werewolf. We're gonna

916
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: have a werewolf break so the entire audience can collectively

917
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: discuss it and place bets on who's going to be

918
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: the werewolf? Like, maybe we just need more of that.

919
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: What movie was that? I think I watched it on

920
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: your suggestion. It has a great cast in it. Um

921
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: is it the one that takes place at like the

922
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: mansion where all the people gather on like an island

923
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, is the name Charles Gray, isn't it?

924
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: Who would go into play Minecroft Homes and play Blowfield. Oh?

925
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: And also a young what's his name that played Dumbledore

926
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: was in it. Richard Harris. No, not Richard here, the

927
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: other one in the main Dumbledore Michael Gambon. That's what

928
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: I'm thinking. Yeah, I believe he's in it as well.

929
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: We got a really far afield, didn't we know. I

930
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: mean that's some pretty ephemeral stuff that you're talking about.

931
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: Their human life it is, man. Yeah, No, I mean

932
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: that's that's a That's one of the things I think

933
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: that makes it so special. I mean, you know, uh,

934
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: there's a great Matt puts it really really really nicely

935
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: in that interview talking about you pull that tape recorder

936
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: at the closet and you put the tape in and

937
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: you hit play on it, and you hear the to

938
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 1: the tape cassette starts spinning, and you hear a voice

939
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: from the grave come, you know, and say hello to you.

940
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: We just found in my family, we just found a

941
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: tape recording of my my dad's dad passed away. When

942
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: I was nine months old. I had never heard his

943
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: voice until, uh, my aunt Jennifer found this tape forward

944
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: the last for the season finale of the Ephemeral episode.

945
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 1: She found it like two days before the episode came

946
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: out and we cut it in and I had never

947
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: heard my grandfather's voice before that starts. I was just

948
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: like high folks, a ghost out of nowhere. So, I mean, yeah,

949
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: the the fact that you know, these whatever they are

950
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: tape cassettes, who are you know, weird old industrial films

951
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: or all kinds of effemora you know, get saved for

952
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: one reason another, Uh, it's I think it's about as

953
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: close as you can get to real time travel. Yeah.

954
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: Are people sending you yet? Yes? Yeah, yeah. What's the

955
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: best thing you've gotten? What's the best thing I've got?

956
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: You know? Someone just wrote to me and told me

957
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: that their parents both worked for the Dumont Network and

958
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: that um at least one of them was hired by

959
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: Alan B. Dumont, the founder of the company himself. So

960
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: that was pretty cool. But I mean, it's all good.

961
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 1: I like it all. A lot of people have told

962
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: me amazing stories about you know, family tapes of theirs,

963
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: who are you know, a firmer that was significant in

964
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: their family. And I think the broader cultural stuff I

965
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: think is is always good and is easy to make

966
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: into big episodes. But I'm really fascinated by the sort

967
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: of individual stories that people that are like, yeah, I

968
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,280
Speaker 1: made these kind of like goofy fake shows on tape cassette,

969
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: like with my brother when I was a kid. Um.

970
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 1: You know, the stuff that's not professionally made, the stuff

971
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: that's a little harder to get through and could maybe use,

972
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, some kind of editor to get through and

973
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: and and help you know, bring it to life a

974
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: little bit. That's that's the stuff that I get really

975
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 1: really excited about. Okay, so it looks like we gotta

976
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: wrap up there, but Alex, thanks so much for joining

977
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: us today. We are so excited about Ephemeral. What I've

978
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: heard of it is so good and I mean that

979
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: from the bottom of my heart. And I'm so excited

980
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: for all you listeners out there to go subscribe to

981
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: Ephemeral wherever you get your podcasts. And what else should

982
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: they do is that it? Yeah, I mean, that's that's enough.

983
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if if you feel so inclined

984
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 1: writing one of those little reviews giving it some stars.

985
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: That stuff actually really does make a big difference on

986
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: our end. Are you know the powers A B see

987
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: things like that and and like that and say, hey,

988
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: maybe you should do more of these. So if you

989
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: feel so inclined, I've heard that they're good to binge.

990
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: Uh I don't you know? You can benjam or not benjam.

991
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 1: You can listen to them out of order. You could

992
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: really do whatever you want. The trailer, I will say,

993
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: makes kind of an eleventh episode. It's about eight minutes long,

994
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: but it is sort of a stands on its own

995
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: as an episode two. So uh yeah, they're all there.

996
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: I would recommend playing these episodes on a speaker and

997
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 1: recording them with a microphone into an eight track player

998
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: and then leaving those tapes out in the world for

999
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: people to find. We had some crazy ideas about different

1000
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: ways to do, like oh, we can make a self

1001
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: destructing tape of the demo and send it to an

1002
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: executive or something that sounds safe and sending a bomb. Okay,

1003
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: got all right? Well, yeah, definitely check it out. And

1004
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: in the meantime, if you want to check out other

1005
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: episodes of stuff to blow your mind, heading over Stuff

1006
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mother ship,

1007
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 1: that's what we'll find them all. And indeed, if you

1008
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: want to help out this show as well, if you

1009
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: want to help out Invention, the other show that Joe

1010
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: and I put together, just make sure that you rate

1011
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: interview those shows wherever and whenever you have the opportunity

1012
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: to do so. Huge thanks to our producers Seth Nicholas

1013
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: Johnson and Maya Cole. If you would like to get

1014
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: in touch with us directly with feedback on this episode

1015
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: or any other suggest topic for the future, just to

1016
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact that's Stuff

1017
00:55:54,440 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your

1018
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: Mind is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works.

1019
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart

1020
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1021
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: favorite shows.