Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,
Speaker 1: severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast.
Speaker 1: You can't predict anything. Uh this this is embarrassing. Uh.
Speaker 1: The dude wrote in, like this is kind of like
Speaker 1: stunningly embarrassing. But a guy wrote in, and uh, he's
Speaker 1: driving all around the place. He says he drew from.
Speaker 1: He drove from northwest Wisconsin, through the Prairie provinces of
Speaker 1: Canada into the Yukon, all the way to the Alaska coast,
Speaker 1: ten thousand miles of highway, listen to a bunch of
Speaker 1: podcast episodes, and decided he need to scold me about
Speaker 1: attributing a quote to Aldo Leopold that Elder Leopold did
Speaker 1: not say. The quote is ethical behavior is doing the
Speaker 1: right thing when no one else is watching, even when
Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing is legal, which I've quoted a
Speaker 1: thousand times. He says, Leopold never said such a thing ever.
Speaker 1: Now he like goes down to be real mean to me.
Speaker 1: This guy's name is Keith. But then you could tell
Speaker 1: that he had the same problem because I have searched
Speaker 1: through the Leopold archives and Madison, Wisconsin. While writing on
Speaker 1: a related topic, and I found no such quote anywhere
Speaker 1: in his writings or speeches. He scoured all of his works,
Speaker 1: doesn't find those words. Last year, after seeing an anti
Speaker 1: hunting group and a pro hunting group both use that
Speaker 1: quote in the same week, attributing it to Leopold, I
Speaker 1: decided to answer the question once and for all. I
Speaker 1: contacted an Old associate, Curt Mind, the world's greatest Leopold authority,
Speaker 1: a trustee of the Leopold Foundation, a professor of ecology
Speaker 1: at University of Wisconsin, the author of the definitive Theopold Biography.
Speaker 1: He doesn't know where that quote came from either. He
Speaker 1: has read every quotable word Leopold ever wrote or said. Gosh,
Speaker 1: I feel like in Bugle magazine's column, Dude, what's that
Speaker 1: column called ethics or situation ethics? I believe is the column?
Speaker 1: Come on, someone helped me out. Nobody else reas No, No No,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to say that that
Speaker 1: quote attributed to Aldo Leopold is like in the header
Speaker 1: of that column. I've been reading that son of a
Speaker 1: bitching quote for my not my whole life, but a
Speaker 1: lot of it. I got turned on to Eldo Leopold.
Speaker 1: I could tell you the year I got turned onto
Speaker 1: Eldo Leopold would have been the reason I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: that year because that was the first year we tried
Speaker 1: to cook a de Year's tongue, which we'll be talking
Speaker 1: about shortly. Um. Another thing, research just came out. They've
Speaker 1: been doing this extensive study of links and fishers. Hold on,
Speaker 1: we done with the quote, what did you do? Feel like?
Speaker 1: I feel no, but I feel like I feel like
Speaker 1: he's probably right as rude as he is. Here's how
Speaker 1: he ends his email. Eldo was a great man and
Speaker 1: a deep, deep thinker. But he never said what you
Speaker 1: keep saying. He said, stop it. That's how he ends,
Speaker 1: just straight talk. Stop it sounds like my daughter. Oh,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna get that one. Well, I didn't
Speaker 1: say his last name, the run round name Keith from
Speaker 1: other people. He dudes are driving around ten thousand mile
Speaker 1: loops named Keith. I believe that this will be his
Speaker 1: favorite podcast of all time. Oh yeah, Oh, he'll eat
Speaker 1: it up. He'll eat it up because he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're wrong, this one's for you. Yeah. He's got a
Speaker 1: lot of um. He's he's one of those dudes that
Speaker 1: uh is like and you get to the bo of
Speaker 1: his email and he has a lot of logos of
Speaker 1: his affiliations, like you know you're going like hunting, fishing,
Speaker 1: chat rooms for ums. Everybody ends with like a quote
Speaker 1: CP can shooting twice is stupid stuff like that. Like
Speaker 1: guys who like have a quote that like really sums
Speaker 1: up their personality. He runs with um, he runs with
Speaker 1: like his affiliations. I like the guy because he's the
Speaker 1: kind of guy that rather than sitting there being annoyed
Speaker 1: mm hm, he's like you know what he'd probably like
Speaker 1: to know. I'm gonna send him no Nope. But in
Speaker 1: his email stop it the bottom tagline. He doesn't have
Speaker 1: any Leopold quotes. No, I'd even put that quote in
Speaker 1: the bottom I think. And I was gonna say that
Speaker 1: I said it nothing not one seven or now that
Speaker 1: no one knows where it came from. Yeah, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: he's just giving you permission to just own that one.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start I'm gonna start making the dice
Speaker 1: said it. And after you're quote, he says Steve right now,
Speaker 1: and then it says thank you, Keith. Here's another quote
Speaker 1: that probably isn't true, But I heard that Sammy Hagar.
Speaker 1: Have we talked about this for you? Honest, I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I heard that Sammy Hagar, and I even
Speaker 1: looked up to see if he said this. It kind
Speaker 1: of doesn't make sense, but I heard that Sammy Hagar
Speaker 1: said that his lyrics come from thinking he knew what
Speaker 1: someone was saying in a song, and then learn what
Speaker 1: they're actually saying, and then just took what he thought
Speaker 1: they were saying and made it a song. So kind
Speaker 1: of plagiarism, like how in in a God to you know,
Speaker 1: in the Garden of Eden, it sounds like he's saying
Speaker 1: in a God of DaVita, So it'd be like if
Speaker 1: you wrote a song like, well, now that I know
Speaker 1: he's saying in the Garden of Eden, I'm going to
Speaker 1: write a song where someone says in a Godadvita. But
Speaker 1: I don't know what he could have heard that would
Speaker 1: make that where he thought they were saying I can't
Speaker 1: drive fifty five? Oh yeah, the original Like what was
Speaker 1: the song? No, he is saying, do you know what
Speaker 1: thise know what I'm saying said? So you can't take
Speaker 1: that and go like, well, that's how he must have
Speaker 1: come up with I can't drop a great example song.
Speaker 1: I can't remember who the original artist is, but stuck
Speaker 1: in a low die again? Yeah oh yeah, Creten, Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you. For many years decades, I thought that they
Speaker 1: were saying, only the Good Die young. There's a similar
Speaker 1: song similar to lyrics and sounds. So that's how they
Speaker 1: came up with that song, only the Good Die Young.
Speaker 1: That's how Billy Joel came up with that. Maybe I
Speaker 1: thought Towns Vand's aunt penned. He might have, He might
Speaker 1: have not created he wrote. He wrote every song. Unbeknownst
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. He wrote all the songs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tragic him and J J. Kale can move on to
Speaker 1: this fisher research out of Maine. There's everbody knows that
Speaker 1: a fisher is. So it's a remember the Weasel family
Speaker 1: Mustarland like a souped up Pine Martin, which is like
Speaker 1: a souped up easil. Uh. They're doing some links research
Speaker 1: in Maine and they're finding that and this is bizarre.
Speaker 1: They're finding that fissures successfully prey on links. Wow wow,
Speaker 1: because they're putting they have links with they have collared links.
Speaker 1: And what people do when they're doing mortality studies. Is
Speaker 1: you you put a collar on a thing that like
Speaker 1: logs a GPS waypoint every whatever. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what's typical in a mortality study, but it
Speaker 1: logs a GPS waypoint every x hours and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you see that thing doesn't move for
Speaker 1: an unusual period of time, and then you go there
Speaker 1: quickly and ask try to ascertain what's going on. They're
Speaker 1: doing the links work in the winter sort of snow
Speaker 1: on the grounds. You can get a pretty vivid picture
Speaker 1: of what happened, and fishers seem to get on their
Speaker 1: trail and track them. And they even mentioned in this
Speaker 1: thing that it seems that during snow flurries, during snow storms,
Speaker 1: they will make their move and jump on the links
Speaker 1: and kill it by biting the back of its neck.
Speaker 1: Now there should also be known about fishers, is there's
Speaker 1: some bad mo fols because they're one of the few
Speaker 1: things that really regularly kills porcupines. They get them rolled
Speaker 1: over and attack the soft quillst belly patch. Pine Martin's
Speaker 1: too too right. I don't know about Pine Martins. I
Speaker 1: heard that, um their cousins. Yeah, Uh. Guy rode in
Speaker 1: about Mark Kennyon was on this show, and he's talking
Speaker 1: about eating apples. How you can eat apples to mask
Speaker 1: your the scent that you breathe out. Uh if that
Speaker 1: works now, I remember hearing the same thing about carrots, Like,
Speaker 1: eat a bunch of apples, then you smell like something.
Speaker 1: Do you would want to eat this guy, I was
Speaker 1: saying one of the upsides, he acknowledged the many downsides.
Speaker 1: One of the upsides of being a chaw dog is
Speaker 1: that he when he's up in his tree spitting out
Speaker 1: che spit, he's he's that deer come up and lick
Speaker 1: up that dip. WHOA, you don't buy that, No, it's
Speaker 1: gonna get people chewing. Yeah. A guy rode in that
Speaker 1: we talked about you too much, and it's gonna make
Speaker 1: and we've got a coup. People right in and say
Speaker 1: that us talking about you made him made them start
Speaker 1: dipping again. Relapse. He pulled a new gas station and
Speaker 1: bought it him well, and another guy said that we're
Speaker 1: talking about dip and I feel like when I'm talking
Speaker 1: about I'm talking about people getting cancer and riddled with
Speaker 1: holes in their face. But he said, we're gonna make
Speaker 1: kids start dipping if we don't stop talking about dip.
Speaker 1: So I I hesitated to talk about the deer attracting qualities.
Speaker 1: But the one thing that we're missing there is that
Speaker 1: you don't have to catalyze dipped have a smell by
Speaker 1: putting in your mouth. You just bringing extra yetie down
Speaker 1: to the cannon. There is some hot water and then
Speaker 1: but around your tree stand like. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: touch your body. That's a good point. Can you just
Speaker 1: buy a log, Yeah, have a just dribble it the
Speaker 1: whole way out cancer free, or just just have Garrett
Speaker 1: just put the lid on a bunch of his Garrett
Speaker 1: Gatorade bottles. Yeah, yeah, you're going to you're doing a
Speaker 1: sporting good star next to the doing the doing rut
Speaker 1: yurin is just a bottle of dog should be Dug
Speaker 1: Duran's piss and Dirt's cheese dirt spit. Or you make
Speaker 1: a concoction of Buckman juice, Buckman juice and dirt myths
Speaker 1: spit with some apple. That'd be a great product. Man.
Speaker 1: It was, Yeah, Doug Duran's urine mixed with Dirt's cheese
Speaker 1: spit and it's like a deer to be like the
Speaker 1: world's greatest deer tracks. You can just call it rut. Okay,
Speaker 1: one more quick thing I did my crraction. I talked
Speaker 1: about deer looking up dip talked about fishers. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: touch on New Zealand. It's a kind of baffling situation
Speaker 1: and no one here is gonna have an expert opinion
Speaker 1: on that and everything. Guy was talking about Seth Right,
Speaker 1: you were just sharing with us recently about shot gobbling
Speaker 1: turkeys by throwing rocks and stop signs. Okay, guy hunting
Speaker 1: up state in New York, and he says the most
Speaker 1: beautiful shot gobbling that occurs is that he hunts by
Speaker 1: a lake that has a lot of loons, and in
Speaker 1: the spring, the loon, a loon will light up the
Speaker 1: little shot gobbled turkeys. That's what I have not heard before.
Speaker 1: Added to the list. Who can do a loon call?
Speaker 1: That's tough. That's pretty good, not bad? Uh. Okay in
Speaker 1: New Zealand. Now this is this is just telling. I'm
Speaker 1: just telling you this. I can't put any There's nothing
Speaker 1: I can do here for you. I'm providing nothing but
Speaker 1: telling about this is outside of my area of expertise.
Speaker 1: I'm deeply American, but um, just as like game management
Speaker 1: in Africa baffles me, game management in New Zealand baffles me.
Speaker 1: But there's a debate going on where like in New Zealand, um,
Speaker 1: the the sort of radical left of the environmental movement
Speaker 1: is very anti game animals because there's no game animals
Speaker 1: native to New Zealand. They had those big five pound birds,
Speaker 1: but they killed them all prior prior. I think there
Speaker 1: was always yeah, but I think they were extinct prior
Speaker 1: to European contact, like the indigenous people. I think once
Speaker 1: it was settled by you know what became the indigenous population,
Speaker 1: those birds were wiped out. But when when Europeans started showing,
Speaker 1: they started trucking over all the game animals that were
Speaker 1: familiar with from Europe and also Asia and even some
Speaker 1: from North America because they put some elk here in there.
Speaker 1: But they brought tar over Himalayan tar and caught him
Speaker 1: loose in New Zealand. And they occupy the alpine areas
Speaker 1: of News Zealand and apparently cause some amount of damage
Speaker 1: to native flora. So the hunters want all the game
Speaker 1: animals they like to hunt for him and the left
Speaker 1: side of the environmental spectrum would like to see them eradicated.
Speaker 1: And right now there was like some really aggressive coal
Speaker 1: was proposed. And typically when they go in cold tire
Speaker 1: in New Zealand, so the government shoots him out of helicopters.
Speaker 1: The reasons you see so much crazy stuff have in
Speaker 1: New Zealand would never go on here, like you know,
Speaker 1: landing helicopters next to animals and killing them and having
Speaker 1: year round hunting with no bagging them. It's it's all
Speaker 1: because it's non native. It's all non native wildlife that
Speaker 1: isn't particularly welcome in a lot of places. But when
Speaker 1: they when the government guys are up shooting him out
Speaker 1: of helicopters. A lot of times I'll just shoot the
Speaker 1: females and they'll leave bowls so guys can go hunt them.
Speaker 1: But someone came up with this really aggressive coal plan
Speaker 1: which would have you know, I guess, once and for all,
Speaker 1: put the finishing touches on a nun for these populations
Speaker 1: of tar, and the hunters got all mad. We had
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters from New Zealand right and into
Speaker 1: us saying, hey man, you should speak up on this,
Speaker 1: but I can't really speak up on it with real authority,
Speaker 1: because I don't really understand, but I know that when
Speaker 1: I'm like, oftentimes you'll see hunters in New Zealand and
Speaker 1: Australia kind of be like, hey, hunting here is good
Speaker 1: or hunting here is okay because it's all non natives. Anyways,
Speaker 1: we got to get rid of the non natives. So
Speaker 1: it puts you in a weird situation if you've been
Speaker 1: articulating that perspective and all of a sudden, I you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, don't
Speaker 1: kill them all right, it's a weird situation. What was
Speaker 1: the aggressive plan the like liberal left or whatnot came
Speaker 1: up with. Oh, it was killing hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 1: tar and shooting all the bulls. Yeah, and you have
Speaker 1: to assume there's probably like flavored with a little bit
Speaker 1: of anti hunting sentiment the way it's presented to me,
Speaker 1: because he used to leave bowls around because without females
Speaker 1: are not doing allowed to explode the population. And then
Speaker 1: hunters google hunt the bulls. Yeah, and you know whatever,
Speaker 1: get the highs eat me. I own a toward New Zealand.
Speaker 1: This is probably one of the more dangerous hunts I've
Speaker 1: ever been on. What's your take on it? Man? My
Speaker 1: take is I remember visiting, introducing yourself. Oh this is
Speaker 1: Eduardo Garcia. Everybody, thanks for being here morning. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: having never been in New Zealand, UM, I still think
Speaker 1: that anybody who lives on this earth can have some
Speaker 1: type of perspective and and it's just based on where
Speaker 1: you've been in life. So my perspective on the non
Speaker 1: native species goes back to a trip I took in
Speaker 1: my early twenties when I was working as a yacht chef.
Speaker 1: So um, we were on a boat at a San
Speaker 1: Diego and we went to an island called Guadalupe Island,
Speaker 1: which is southwest of San Diego in the Pacific Ocean.
Speaker 1: And it's a it's not a huge island, but let's
Speaker 1: call it fifteen miles in length and maybe four miles
Speaker 1: and it's most whitest part and it just comes straight
Speaker 1: up out of the Pacific, so super deep blue water
Speaker 1: right off shore. We were going there to fish for
Speaker 1: tuna and to um uh check out the great whites
Speaker 1: that literally just troll the perimeter. It's part of a
Speaker 1: triangle of migration between San Francisco, Guadaloupe and Hawaii for
Speaker 1: great whites and Pacific and one of the great whites
Speaker 1: feed they're feeding on seals. They're feeding on seals. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty sketchy kayak right into shore. They're feeding on
Speaker 1: seals there. And then and then if you're fishing like
Speaker 1: we were, you know, you're ending up with tons of carcasses.
Speaker 1: And so a good time is to just wrap a
Speaker 1: line on a yellow tail uh tuna or yellow fin
Speaker 1: tuna's tail and you'll have eighteen footers hitteen footers just
Speaker 1: cruising after you. After you cut the meat out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'll have a cooler and you just put open the
Speaker 1: drain a little bit and have a carcass in there
Speaker 1: and just be dribbling blood into your you know behind
Speaker 1: when you're swinging. Oh yeah, um. So that's what we're
Speaker 1: there for, you know, with with the boss fishing. And
Speaker 1: but when when we also went hiking on the island,
Speaker 1: and this island was mostly de nuded. There was very
Speaker 1: little trees, there was very little um flora and fauna,
Speaker 1: and and there was skulls and live goats, so dead
Speaker 1: and live domestic goats all over the island and what
Speaker 1: I learned was that um whalers back in time time
Speaker 1: of yore had dropped these goats off on their way
Speaker 1: out to the like Eastern Islands and explorations of the Pacific,
Speaker 1: and they used a few of these islands, not just Guadaloupe,
Speaker 1: but Sedros Islands and islands off of Baja as these
Speaker 1: um nurseries for food. On the return trip, they would
Speaker 1: be returning lean and then they would be able to
Speaker 1: harvest these goats that had just been living, happy and
Speaker 1: fat on this island. Right, but the population exploded and
Speaker 1: they literally ate everything on the island to the point
Speaker 1: where the Mexican government came in and called most of
Speaker 1: these goats back. But like the redbreasted robin, or I
Speaker 1: think it's even there's an indigenous bird to that zone
Speaker 1: called the Guadaloupe robin, similar to our American redbreasted robin
Speaker 1: that almost went extinct. And and so that my take
Speaker 1: on it is that like a place was built to
Speaker 1: be a certain way, and the students, as soon as
Speaker 1: we start screwing with mother nature, we're done, Like there
Speaker 1: is absolutely no way to catch back up what I've seen.
Speaker 1: Let me give you a two point counter um in
Speaker 1: the case in New Zealand, so many of the things
Speaker 1: that were like so many of the native species were eradicated,
Speaker 1: you know, well driven to extinction or extirpated. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you've already kind of got I think that that sort
Speaker 1: of provided a motivation to repopulate it. Right, So does
Speaker 1: that And I'm not saying that's the final word on it,
Speaker 1: but you have to like imagine, right, it's not like
Speaker 1: you're like supplementing an existing thing. You kind of have
Speaker 1: this place, like people want to this place where you expect,
Speaker 1: like a large land mask to have large mammals, and
Speaker 1: even though there weren't large mammals there, there was these
Speaker 1: like large birds there, and so people probably felt an absence,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, So there's that. A quick note on
Speaker 1: the how the whalers used to stock islands all over
Speaker 1: You care about the whalers that used to go and
Speaker 1: get they'd stop buying get giant tortoises in a variety
Speaker 1: of places like everywhere. Even people would stop into the
Speaker 1: say shells later and get giant tortoises off there, and
Speaker 1: they'd go to other areas and get them if they
Speaker 1: liked him, because you could flip them over. Yeah, put
Speaker 1: him in the hold of the boat, flipped over and
Speaker 1: it would stay alive for months. You wanna talk about
Speaker 1: humane slaughter practices? Oh my god. That The second counter
Speaker 1: is this, and this is an interesting perspective on non natives.
Speaker 1: Where the Hawaiian Islands weren't colonized until around eleven years ago,
Speaker 1: So seafaring Polynesians discovered kind of in a truer sense
Speaker 1: of the word being like the first people to discover
Speaker 1: discovered the Hawaiians years ago, and they introduced and that
Speaker 1: they quickly introduced uh, dogs, rats, probably accidentally pigs, okay
Speaker 1: in a wide array of edible fruits, so like Hawaii
Speaker 1: didn't have mango and papaya and pineapple and bread fruit.
Speaker 1: This is all stuff that was cultivated. Sure, So I
Speaker 1: was hunting in Molokai with some native Hawaiians and the
Speaker 1: Nature Conservancy was had recently bought up some large properties,
Speaker 1: and the Nature Conservancy was pushing an idea that they
Speaker 1: wanted to eradicate the wild pigs off of the land
Speaker 1: because they wanted to do a non native eradication. The
Speaker 1: the Hawaiians articulated a perspect to me that we're indigenous people.
Speaker 1: Were native people we've been here for however long we've
Speaker 1: been here. The entire time that we've been here, we've
Speaker 1: been here with pigs. How can I be native but
Speaker 1: the pig be non native? And they said, if we
Speaker 1: really wanted to get serious about eradicate non natives, I
Speaker 1: would be looking towards you folks rather than these pigs.
Speaker 1: So the point I mean, I think people get pretty
Speaker 1: used to like, people get pretty used to have and
Speaker 1: the animals around that they have into these boys in
Speaker 1: New Zealand who have been writing and it's a really
Speaker 1: insulting idea that you would that you would wipe out
Speaker 1: there resource. Again, man, I don't really know. I don't
Speaker 1: really know the answer. M It's like Texas yourself. Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Pruitt, Okay, Tea, Yeah, I live in Texas,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of the same thing. There a lot
Speaker 1: of non natives. You want to eradicate some of that,
Speaker 1: but then again you have all these outfitters that profit
Speaker 1: off of it. So it's like that constant battle between
Speaker 1: the two ideas of what do you do with this
Speaker 1: problem we have? And then the people who are banking
Speaker 1: in on it, cashing in actually raised like keeping and
Speaker 1: trapping pigs and letting them go. It's it's a catch
Speaker 1: twenty two and yeah, the pigs and they get a
Speaker 1: bad rap because they you know there they can be destructive, right.
Speaker 1: But it's really it is different in this way than
Speaker 1: a rainbow trout and brown trout, because I don't know,
Speaker 1: there is some competition in the native rivers right with
Speaker 1: with the native fish generally, not like brown trout generally
Speaker 1: aren't causing trouble, No, not that we know of. I
Speaker 1: think that there they know that there is some competition
Speaker 1: in our rivers with native fish and the introduced trout. Right.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you all send made a campaign to
Speaker 1: call out all rainbow and brown trout out of the
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain States attack. But you know what, I would
Speaker 1: be in a position to be consistent if someone proposed
Speaker 1: that to be consistent, I don't know, man, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, to be consistent, I would support it just
Speaker 1: to be just to be just to have just to
Speaker 1: be able to be to have the clarity. But you
Speaker 1: see at my point that one of the things that
Speaker 1: I believe is that there are moral and ethical compass
Speaker 1: needs to migrate and mature with it, needs to evolve
Speaker 1: with everything else and us because it it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of an easy thing for us to say, yeah, like
Speaker 1: let's bring it back to it's like original holistic way.
Speaker 1: I I struggled to believe that that is absolutely actually
Speaker 1: attainable in some scenarios. I don't believe. There you go.
Speaker 1: And so what it means though, is that we have
Speaker 1: to ship like it's a preparadigm shift. Needs to have
Speaker 1: me going to shift our perspective as to Okay, well
Speaker 1: what is the new normal? And you know, some of
Speaker 1: these things are here to stay? You know, how do
Speaker 1: we do how what is how do we continue to
Speaker 1: uh the stewards well getting the funk out of the
Speaker 1: way and just letting mother nature like coal also and
Speaker 1: figured out you know, Like a friend was talking to
Speaker 1: me about mountain lion hunting here in Montana last week
Speaker 1: and he was saying, you know what I want to do?
Speaker 1: He said, uh, he said, I think we need to
Speaker 1: shoot um female mountain lions right for what purpose? UM two?
Speaker 1: In his mind, it's part of UM game management, is
Speaker 1: pat He's watching all the So I'm living in southwest
Speaker 1: Montana where the predator population is robust and growing, right,
Speaker 1: grizzly bears, wolves, mountain lions, you name it. That being
Speaker 1: not even a debatable point. No, I want to clarify
Speaker 1: for people. It's just by the numbers, you know. And
Speaker 1: and so his point is like, hey, we need to
Speaker 1: And he was just talking about mountain lions and I'm
Speaker 1: just sharing a conversation that happened that he He's like,
Speaker 1: you know what my point of view is, uh, is
Speaker 1: I wanna I want to harvest female mountain lions. Um
Speaker 1: eliminates the next generation just right off the bat. And
Speaker 1: if we have a few more toms out there, the
Speaker 1: tom's naturally will be culling their own kin to keep
Speaker 1: their own population down. That's what other nature has instilled
Speaker 1: in them to do, you know. And the practice fratricide.
Speaker 1: There you go. And so he's in his way. He
Speaker 1: was just saying like, I'm gonna mediate a little bit
Speaker 1: just to kind of let mother nature take back over
Speaker 1: a little bit. Which was interesting. I didn't have much
Speaker 1: to debate there. I was just listening to him saying,
Speaker 1: I hear you, you know, are you gonna eat it?
Speaker 1: What's my next question? You're gonna eat it? And he's
Speaker 1: one of those he's a little on the fence with
Speaker 1: you know, the things he does and doesn't eat for
Speaker 1: the wild. But um, I was like, well, funk it,
Speaker 1: give it to me, I'll eat it. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty good. I've heard I heard taste like pig.
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. None of this is
Speaker 1: what we're supposed to be talking about. Was every cool
Speaker 1: one the things we brought up so far. That was
Speaker 1: the perfect segue. I can't Yeah. Yeah, Edwarod just served
Speaker 1: it up. Man, do you mind taking it and run?
Speaker 1: And since I missed it? Yeah, speaking of eating mouth lions,
Speaker 1: Oh no, because I wanted to segue into the tongue.
Speaker 1: The tongue. Oh, so I gotta go back. I gotta
Speaker 1: go here. Here, check out this one. Here's a segway
Speaker 1: for you. Hey, remember when I was talking earlier about
Speaker 1: m hmm, yeah, well here's why that was. When I
Speaker 1: know it wasn't ninety six. We cooked tongue in ninety
Speaker 1: four first time. Um, I had moved away from home
Speaker 1: and was living with my brother Danny and our buddies
Speaker 1: Brian and Matt Drost, and we lived in a house.
Speaker 1: I remember my rent was on dollars a month. Um,
Speaker 1: But also a part of the house was actually falling
Speaker 1: away from the other part of the house where you
Speaker 1: could run an extension card from inside out without opening
Speaker 1: a door window, honestly, and like I remember, the shower
Speaker 1: leaks so bad and the landlord wouldn't come over there
Speaker 1: that we went and bought a gown of roofing tar
Speaker 1: and roofing tar at our shower, and roofing tar takes
Speaker 1: forever to dry in a shower, so you when you
Speaker 1: set your like you set your shampoo bottle down, get
Speaker 1: like roofing tier on it. So every ledge has a
Speaker 1: roofing tire ring on it because it just took months
Speaker 1: for that roofing tier to set up that kind of places.
Speaker 1: And we're in a lot of dear meat and we're
Speaker 1: in every part that we're just eating everything we could
Speaker 1: get our hands on. Yeah, we ate four year between
Speaker 1: the opening of bow season October one. We had four
Speaker 1: year between the opening of bow season the beginning of
Speaker 1: Christmas break, which started like December ten. And we always
Speaker 1: knew that people could eat tongues. I was telling Danielle
Speaker 1: about this yesterday and we would, uh, we just took
Speaker 1: Remember one night we were partying and took a dear
Speaker 1: tongue and just boiled the pot for a long time
Speaker 1: and just didn't like, couldn't get it figured out. I
Speaker 1: didn't know about the skin thing, right, did you guya
Speaker 1: get that? And we kind of decided we sort of
Speaker 1: put it on put that whole idea on ice for
Speaker 1: a long time. But I'll point out that it also
Speaker 1: took us many years to figure out what was up
Speaker 1: with beaver tails. That it took a long long time
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, so that's what they're talking about
Speaker 1: when they talk about beaver tails. It's all fat inside.
Speaker 1: It's like state grizzle inside there. I'm wondering if you
Speaker 1: could just render that somehow, you could render it on it,
Speaker 1: you could render it out for sure. Um, so there's that.
Speaker 1: So Daniel talk about how you cook up to your tongue,
Speaker 1: and then I want to I don't want to have
Speaker 1: the I want to do. I will talk about Well,
Speaker 1: we were talking about about this yesterday, and for people
Speaker 1: who who look at it as this terrifying alien looking thing,
Speaker 1: imagine that it's sort of like a little pot roast
Speaker 1: that is enclosed in a hard rubber case. So all
Speaker 1: you'd have to do no matter pretty much. I think
Speaker 1: any tongue recipe is always started the same way. Boiling,
Speaker 1: brazing and some sort of liquid too. Tender eyes cook
Speaker 1: the meat on the inside, and you're also separating the
Speaker 1: skin from the meat. And then when you plunge it
Speaker 1: in that ice bath, that cold water shocks meat, it contracts,
Speaker 1: and then you have a little bit of separation to
Speaker 1: help you peel it. And from that point you're you
Speaker 1: have like endless options. It's like a piece of meat. Um.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about doing some sort of pot roast.
Speaker 1: Cut it into big honks, added to carrots, potatoes, whatever,
Speaker 1: some stock and what. Just put it back in the
Speaker 1: oven for a while until all the vegetables are cooked,
Speaker 1: and it's it's like a pot roast. But I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot I have not tried that yet, a
Speaker 1: lot of ideas. I used to always tell people that
Speaker 1: it wasn't worth messing with any tongue up until you
Speaker 1: got into like elk. But I'm not realized that that's
Speaker 1: like not at all correct. Yeah, because that dear tongue
Speaker 1: we did yesterday, it's a rare rod. Dear tongue makes
Speaker 1: a lot of Yeah, it makes a really like a
Speaker 1: like a definitely like a meal for someone or an
Speaker 1: appetiser for six to eight people. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: that's a nice thing about if you've got one tongue
Speaker 1: and you want to have people over, have a dinner
Speaker 1: party and really share something different than most people have
Speaker 1: never experienced having that sliced up and seared. I think
Speaker 1: whatever you do after you after you raise it, having
Speaker 1: some sort of hard sear after, either on a grill
Speaker 1: or in a hot saute pan, adds up a lot
Speaker 1: of helps enhance that texture a little bit. Some coloration
Speaker 1: is really big, but because it can get kind of
Speaker 1: a weird look to it. Yeah, it's like that grayish color.
Speaker 1: And to me, that's sort of the first thing I see.
Speaker 1: I I always stay it all the time. You eat
Speaker 1: with your eyes first, you see a meal. If it
Speaker 1: looks like shit, you've got it in your head that
Speaker 1: you're not gonna like it. So I always find some
Speaker 1: way to add some sort of coloration to to that meat.
Speaker 1: So have you ever just cured him? No? I haven't,
Speaker 1: because when I first started getting better at preparing them,
Speaker 1: it was because I hung out with a buddy mine
Speaker 1: who's a chef and had like an actual restaurant, and
Speaker 1: he used to do a lot of he used to
Speaker 1: do a lot of tongue dishes in his restaurant. He
Speaker 1: was Jewish, so he's got you know, like a just
Speaker 1: like we're discussing this as well, like like Hispanic culture,
Speaker 1: Bosque culture. You know, there's a bunch of cultures around
Speaker 1: the world that like utilized tongue and have like tongue traditions.
Speaker 1: But then Jewish delis it's a it's a very common
Speaker 1: dish and like large Eastern cities of Jewish always have
Speaker 1: tongue sandwich. So he he came from it from that perspective,
Speaker 1: but was also very big into sharkoutrie. He would do
Speaker 1: he would take like a dozen veal tongues and do
Speaker 1: them all at once, and he would put him in
Speaker 1: a dry brine skin on and cure him with pink salt.
Speaker 1: So then when you then you raise him, pull the skin.
Speaker 1: Then he'd smoke them, but it would be that pink
Speaker 1: salt would turn it like a beautiful, beautiful red. Didn't
Speaker 1: you do that on A've done that? I remember seeing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's how he would conquer the color problem. And
Speaker 1: it also make it that when you know I think
Speaker 1: you should have to do first. It's just like really
Speaker 1: quickly walked through the steps of like just how you cooked,
Speaker 1: how you cooked your tongue yesterday? Yesterday's so we braised it.
Speaker 1: You braised it in a little pot. Probably that was
Speaker 1: that wasn't just water? Did you add stock? Okay? With stock?
Speaker 1: So I like to think that whatever you're braising it
Speaker 1: in imparts some flavor, So some sort of flavor. I
Speaker 1: would have just done water because I don't think it
Speaker 1: really matters. Probably did stop because I didn't want you
Speaker 1: to look down on me. Well, and I told you
Speaker 1: I never ever ever tell anybody to use like a
Speaker 1: bullion cube. I really just hate. The only time I
Speaker 1: would ever do that is because I have not yet
Speaker 1: tested side by side brazen water brasen stock. If that
Speaker 1: meat peel it and you were to take a slice
Speaker 1: right then I haven't tested that yet. Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: don't know how much you can actually penetrate, like flavor
Speaker 1: the meat the way you normally would flavor meat in
Speaker 1: stock with the Yeah, but I knew you were gonna
Speaker 1: season it, and I knew you were going to make
Speaker 1: you were going to make an accompaniment. Yeah, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think if you're like, yeah, if you were just gonna
Speaker 1: be like no, I'm just gonna boil it like in
Speaker 1: the old days, like they used to do on the
Speaker 1: great planes buffalo, cut its tongue out, boil it, slice
Speaker 1: it up, eat it. Then I would want to boil
Speaker 1: it in a salted stock, right, But since you're gonna
Speaker 1: do all that other junk, I would have just done
Speaker 1: it water. But I didn't want you to come over
Speaker 1: my house and think that I was a shitty cook,
Speaker 1: so I put stock in there. I told you not
Speaker 1: to use your good stock, though I did say that,
Speaker 1: um yeah, and I think so you can braise it
Speaker 1: stove top, put a lid on it low. Uh. Pressure
Speaker 1: cookers are awesome tools to use. If you're man you
Speaker 1: got to be careful of pressure cookers. What do you
Speaker 1: mean because you can't monitor it? So I I am
Speaker 1: a fan of manual pressure cookers. You're what you're supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing. I'm sorry, Yeah, just marches through like bam, bam, bam.
Speaker 1: What did yesterday? Okay? Okay, So we braised the tongue
Speaker 1: until it was tender, and you could tell we stuck
Speaker 1: a fork like one of the spokes of the fort
Speaker 1: and you could tell that you could just sort of
Speaker 1: slide it under the skin, and you knew the meat
Speaker 1: was tender after about three and a half hours, so
Speaker 1: we pulled it out, gave it an ice bath, peeled it,
Speaker 1: which took a little bit of time. And you're kind
Speaker 1: of peeling and kind of using a pairing knee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you don't want to cut through the meat, and
Speaker 1: so I used a pairing knife. I think a sup
Speaker 1: for sharp filame knife that's really thin and flexible would
Speaker 1: also help, just to sort of kind of like getting
Speaker 1: silver scan who sharpened that knife? You sharpened it. It's
Speaker 1: very sharp because it always seems like what those tongues, man,
Speaker 1: you get like half of it that just comes right
Speaker 1: off and then the other there's just there's different like
Speaker 1: binding materials between the skin and the meat in different
Speaker 1: locations on that tongue, and there's there's kind in rich pound.
Speaker 1: Are you cool? You have said the thing all day? Well,
Speaker 1: I got a question. I do, because she's marching through
Speaker 1: the steps at the time. I do have a question.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked because I was trying to find
Speaker 1: my moment. But um, is it safe to say that
Speaker 1: like for the domestic chef and like people cooking at
Speaker 1: home that if you get a tongue, like the best
Speaker 1: thing to do is to just baseline, just braise it
Speaker 1: first and then creative you have to do. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: worry about dry Brian and ahead of time tim and
Speaker 1: all that, if you're just gonna do if you just
Speaker 1: want to be like, what's this all about? If you
Speaker 1: want to what's this about? I would make the thing
Speaker 1: that she's talking about. Yeah, that was really good because
Speaker 1: the chef buddy that does the dry brian, the peel,
Speaker 1: the smoking, that's some labor intensive ship. But the thing
Speaker 1: is he's doing a dozen of them and these are
Speaker 1: beef tongues bigger, so he's doing like he's making a
Speaker 1: day out of it, you know. Really there, then where
Speaker 1: are people? Where are people finding that Daniel's recipe? Oh?
Speaker 1: Good question. We gonna put it out in a video.
Speaker 1: O nice cool. I look forward to seeing that go
Speaker 1: on march through you good Chris. Yeah. But so if
Speaker 1: you got a tongue, like say you shout at your
Speaker 1: first dear, you cut the tongue out, You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something with this. You don't want to
Speaker 1: stick in the oven. You don't want to put it
Speaker 1: in a slow cooker. You want to braise it first, right, Well,
Speaker 1: slow cooker work fine. So you could do the same thing,
Speaker 1: same thing, covering liquid, covering liquid. You're good. Seth you
Speaker 1: ever cooking tongue? I have not, but I do have
Speaker 1: some the freezer. And it's like I look at him,
Speaker 1: just like, man, I don't I don't know what to
Speaker 1: do with that. Don't hang on. They last forever they do.
Speaker 1: That was my question, how long they last in the freezer?
Speaker 1: All humans will be dead as long as the freezer
Speaker 1: running somewhere. The tongue will be fine. Man, some future
Speaker 1: species will cook that tongue up. Uh okay, marches through Okay.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I start every process with the same braising
Speaker 1: it and then peel it. So it's it's a lot
Speaker 1: easier to peel if if you've if you've cooked it
Speaker 1: first and then being super patient. You don't want to
Speaker 1: try to cut the meat and this You don't want
Speaker 1: to like cut the meat thinking you're just gonna peel
Speaker 1: it that way. You want to like sort of wiggle
Speaker 1: that knife in between. I think the same way. You
Speaker 1: sort of start getting silver skin off of meat and
Speaker 1: then use your fingers and you can start to peel.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't work so easily, and then you just
Speaker 1: have to be patient. But so once I got it peeled,
Speaker 1: then the skin is like, don't worry. The skin is
Speaker 1: extremely obvious. There's no question about what it is you're
Speaker 1: trying to get on. Yeah, you're not like, is that meat?
Speaker 1: Is that skin? It's like that's you just that's It's
Speaker 1: also bumpy, it's hard, it's gross. So do you do
Speaker 1: you peel it? Because of like it's just tougher in hell.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just fantastic. I would imagine, I don't
Speaker 1: know what we're a rubber. Yeah, you can try it.
Speaker 1: Let me know how we could have given you a
Speaker 1: whole handful of it. Yet I didn't know you were
Speaker 1: curious about that. I don't know if it was it
Speaker 1: was just like an appearance texture thing that I think
Speaker 1: the texture matters. So it's like at the very bit
Speaker 1: back of the tongue, there's like always at that hump.
Speaker 1: I don't know the correct term for that, but there's
Speaker 1: always Once you peel like those big taste buds off,
Speaker 1: there's still like some raised bumps so I'm that textual
Speaker 1: things like that really bother me. So I take that
Speaker 1: pairing knife and shave it kind of like you'd shave
Speaker 1: your face, so it's smooth, so you don't have any
Speaker 1: like bumpy textures you shave your face. That if I
Speaker 1: had ever shaved my face, that's what I would imagine
Speaker 1: that speaking to a group of guys saying, yeah, there,
Speaker 1: tongues all peeled up, You got the little bumpies spies off, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then slice it. If I could slice it as
Speaker 1: super super thin, I would have maybe wrapped in plastic
Speaker 1: grab put it in the freezer time willing, and that
Speaker 1: sort of hardened it up, and then you can really
Speaker 1: get nice thin slices. But when it's sort of just
Speaker 1: fresh out of that ice bath, it's still a really
Speaker 1: firm texture. It's still really easy to cut through. So
Speaker 1: I sliced into about quarter inch eighth inch quarter in.
Speaker 1: They were they were thinner than that knife was sharp.
Speaker 1: They were about I don't think they're that then, but
Speaker 1: I'll take four sixte is a quarter inch where sounds good.
Speaker 1: Maybe even the hair less go ahead. So then I
Speaker 1: made a nice little spice mix that had some smoked
Speaker 1: paprika in it, so a really nice bright red color.
Speaker 1: So once you mix that in a season the meat
Speaker 1: with that rub, then you finally got a little red
Speaker 1: colored to that gray meat, which is man. And that's
Speaker 1: when you go from like this is a tongue, this
Speaker 1: is meat. It's like kind of hopping that that bridge
Speaker 1: that people need mentally to get over from that color.
Speaker 1: Once that hit, it was yeah, it was, it was ready,
Speaker 1: it was it was looking good. Yeah. So then the
Speaker 1: last step was hot saute pan, a little bit of
Speaker 1: oil see here on both sides. And I always use
Speaker 1: a little uh spatula to press it down because a
Speaker 1: lot of times meat that pressure they like to sort
Speaker 1: of dome up and then the circle doesn't get seared,
Speaker 1: only the ring on the outside edge. So I was
Speaker 1: flatten it down one by one, flip it over, do
Speaker 1: it to the other side, and you're done. And it
Speaker 1: was you he drizzled it with something, Jimmy. True. This
Speaker 1: is a good high grade. This is advanced wild game cooking.
Speaker 1: Real good. It was. It was really good. But it
Speaker 1: seems so simple, like advanced but simple. Ye. People like
Speaker 1: if you're at home, you're like you're not like looking
Speaker 1: at a hundred steps. It's like, oh, it's that easy.
Speaker 1: Praise it, peel it, slice it, sere it toda. Chris,
Speaker 1: what made it um advanced in your mind versus simple?
Speaker 1: What about the complete tongue recipe? I think the one
Speaker 1: like knowing like what to do, like like the presentation
Speaker 1: because of the gray color, like being like, oh, we
Speaker 1: need to add some spice to this one for flavor,
Speaker 1: and two to make it like appetizing to look at.
Speaker 1: And then two like knowing things like the doming and
Speaker 1: like flattening. Like that's a little more advanced, like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know how to do that, but simple in the
Speaker 1: way that like I'm not a good cook, but watching that,
Speaker 1: watching you cook the whole thing, it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I could probably do that if I had like a walkthrough.
Speaker 1: You'd set Chris's baseline by having you share your famous
Speaker 1: gray rabbit recipe, and that would that would give everybody
Speaker 1: a good sign of where Chris is coming from his
Speaker 1: culinary experience. Yeah, I cook some gray rabbit. It wasn't good.
Speaker 1: It was gray and species nor understands the story, dude,
Speaker 1: I don't really even understand. It's not just me. It
Speaker 1: was a cotton tail rabbit. It's a it's swamp rabbit,
Speaker 1: same as a cotton tail. Yeah, what's the STILTI silvel
Speaker 1: just aquaticus. It's a six pounds. It's a cotton tail
Speaker 1: that grows to five six pounds. It was a big
Speaker 1: and sounds like a nightmare. Yeah, dude, Yeah, but these
Speaker 1: are cool rabbits. Cool seeing all these rabbits. You know,
Speaker 1: normal contail just ships wherever he pleases. Swamp rabbit has
Speaker 1: a log. Oh yeah, I forgot about. They got like
Speaker 1: a defecation log where they got a little spot where
Speaker 1: they can presume it like they like to use it.
Speaker 1: Then get up and look around and get up out
Speaker 1: of the water. When it's wet. These rabbits will swim
Speaker 1: away from you. They'll jump. They'll jump in the in
Speaker 1: the Mississippi or the Ohio and swim across the river.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. And they'll live out in the marsh five
Speaker 1: and they got a little log where they like to go.
Speaker 1: It's like lamas. Lamas will have pick a spot and
Speaker 1: ship in the spot and make like a little hill
Speaker 1: and then they'll actually climb up on the hill. After
Speaker 1: many months of building it up, use it as a
Speaker 1: place to get a look around. It's pretty smart, pretty dog.
Speaker 1: That's like the ultimate ultimate recycling of materials. They're like,
Speaker 1: not only is it food, but it's also function closed
Speaker 1: loop man. So they have a defecation log. And Chris
Speaker 1: took some. It's very good, it's very good to eat.
Speaker 1: And he took some, and he sucks that cooking not
Speaker 1: socks of cooking, socks of cooking game. By your admission,
Speaker 1: i'd say sucks at cooking, flat out socks a cooking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the game doesn't help because it just adds like another
Speaker 1: level of like trying to prepare the rabbit for a
Speaker 1: lady who he was, you know, trying to impress. It
Speaker 1: came out gray. No one was happy. He felt that
Speaker 1: he'd set he'd set everything back. Tell us the recipe,
Speaker 1: the procedure I forgot. I think it was a recipe
Speaker 1: in one of the in the small game, don't you dare.
Speaker 1: But here's where I messed up. Here's where I messed up.
Speaker 1: I think I think the taste wasn't wasn't bad. It
Speaker 1: was just the color. And I think the issue was
Speaker 1: like I just didn't brown it enough before, because I
Speaker 1: think it calls for browning and then you bake it right. Maybe,
Speaker 1: but anyways, the browning, and that's I think that was
Speaker 1: my fatal misstep was like as it was like I
Speaker 1: was just worried about burning it the whole time. And
Speaker 1: that's the perfect segue because that's exactly what Danielle was
Speaker 1: just talking about, was like making food apptized into the eyes.
Speaker 1: You didn't pull that was rule number one. And then
Speaker 1: nobody was like, I wish I would have been there
Speaker 1: for this meal. Man, it would have been yeah, a
Speaker 1: fly on the wall or more like Steve or more
Speaker 1: like Chris's chef that was there. Fly on the wall,
Speaker 1: Fly on the wall. Moving on. You couldn't like we'd
Speaker 1: beat yep about this book because we don't know what happened.
Speaker 1: The reason I'm moving on, there's there's no lesson. There's
Speaker 1: no lesson. Like if I was there, if someone would
Speaker 1: have been there, I would have said, like, that's actually
Speaker 1: looks great, it's not a problem or whatever. Did it
Speaker 1: look bad or did it also taste? No, it tasted.
Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't like probably amazing, but it was
Speaker 1: it was edible for sure. Flavor was good. Flavor was there,
Speaker 1: it was it tender, it was a little it was.
Speaker 1: It was not as tender as I had hoped it
Speaker 1: could have gone for not thirty minutes. The tenderness was yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a little bit of an issue. And then
Speaker 1: the gray, the color was the worst part. That was
Speaker 1: a daughter, do you mind? Um, can you jump in
Speaker 1: and give some perspective on tongue, because I'm guessing that
Speaker 1: you didn't discover tongue when you were twenty. Um, well no,
Speaker 1: I I actually discovered tongue and I was eighteen. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: not only because I was in culinary school. So that's
Speaker 1: how you found out about it. Yeah, So it wasn't
Speaker 1: from like like, it wasn't like a family thing from
Speaker 1: having families from Mexico. Well it could of Mexico. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're you're You're right on many levels except for um my, um,
Speaker 1: it could have had tongue really from my my mom's side,
Speaker 1: which is Russian Jewish from the East coast New Yorker,
Speaker 1: so that easily could have brought tongue into our life.
Speaker 1: But and from my dad's the Latino edge. But um no,
Speaker 1: I was raised sort of in a in sort of
Speaker 1: more of a natural culture. I was raised on like
Speaker 1: tofu and miso soup, and not a lot of game,
Speaker 1: not a lot of wild um, not a lot of
Speaker 1: proteins like meat based proteins. Yeah, more vegetarian macrobatic cooking,
Speaker 1: which is whole whole plant cooking. Um. Fish was expensive.
Speaker 1: So trout. Yeah, if the twin and I twin brow
Speaker 1: and I caught trout, we eat out. Um. And I
Speaker 1: guess when I was looking my teens who started hunting,
Speaker 1: so we're like, Mom, we're eating game, you know, brought
Speaker 1: like a deer leg home. Um. But so tongue for
Speaker 1: me cooking school, um was the intro to methodology and
Speaker 1: through methodology. UM. When when we talk about cooking, methodology
Speaker 1: required a diverse range of of muscle cuts that require
Speaker 1: different cooking methods in order to have a tender brown
Speaker 1: not gray rabbit, etcetera. You know. So my take on
Speaker 1: tongue was that was my first experience it, and then
Speaker 1: traveling through traveling around the world, you see it on
Speaker 1: all kinds of menus. It's really the US has one
Speaker 1: of the most limited animal based protein availability kind of
Speaker 1: you know, like available options out there. You go to
Speaker 1: Europe and they're eating turkey every single day, not just
Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving, Well that's our holiday, but you know, not
Speaker 1: just in the fall. So I've seen in cooked tongue
Speaker 1: a bit um and and I you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's it's it is interesting, especially um, I mean, heck,
Speaker 1: you have a I think you have a recipe out
Speaker 1: there for like duck tongues. You cooked duck tongues before.
Speaker 1: Really people are cooking duck tongue. I mean that's that's
Speaker 1: a bite I've been I've been served it, but I haven't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so tongue. This is how So here's my thing on Well,
Speaker 1: I can't let duck tongues go like for real, it's
Speaker 1: like a crispy duck tongue. It's popular in Asian cultures.
Speaker 1: It was more like walk fried and then tossing the
Speaker 1: sauce kind of a thing. So imagine eating like a
Speaker 1: popcorn shrimp. Maybe not as tender, but there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a little chew in there. Are they peeling those two?
Speaker 1: I don't think so I haven't prepared him. Interesting, We're
Speaker 1: gonna be trying well, counting seasons coming up, so I'll
Speaker 1: sign up right now for that trip. I'll be fine. Um, well,
Speaker 1: we'll just like just pull a bunch of dog. There's
Speaker 1: a handle like there's a handle that I'm always I
Speaker 1: got like a running list of should I want to
Speaker 1: mess with to have a mess with you? And so
Speaker 1: you know, have you ever been to like a dim
Speaker 1: sum place and eating the geled chicken feet? You know? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like you know I haven't. You know, I want to
Speaker 1: get around to replicating that with turkey feet grows. Feet
Speaker 1: feet are great. So feet we're bouncing around a little bit.
Speaker 1: But the best foot rest chicken for the recipe I
Speaker 1: ever had was made by a Jamaican lady and she
Speaker 1: would use the feet. It's what I do now. I
Speaker 1: make all of my chicken stock out of chicken feet.
Speaker 1: So it's because it's loaded with all of the tendons
Speaker 1: you raise up chickens. I raised chickens, not enough to
Speaker 1: call butcher myself. I just buy pounds of frozen chicken
Speaker 1: feet from the butcher or grocery store. And the reason
Speaker 1: I use those for chicken stock is because um per
Speaker 1: you know, like per square pound, I guess or however
Speaker 1: you wanna um you know, like equate that a foot
Speaker 1: has the most connective tissue and ligaments and cartilage and
Speaker 1: joint matter which is packed with collagen, and collagen when
Speaker 1: cooked down, turns into gelatin, which creates your beautiful viscous
Speaker 1: broths and stocks that have mouth feel and stuff. So
Speaker 1: pound per pound and pound and dollar per pound. It's
Speaker 1: like the most economical way to have the best tasting
Speaker 1: stocks out there is go for the shins, the hooves,
Speaker 1: the um, the feet, the tail. Right, if you're hunting
Speaker 1: animal with tail, I know you're worried about how far
Speaker 1: off track you are, and I know where I know
Speaker 1: where you need to wind up. Can I throw another
Speaker 1: thing in to ask if you have any familiarity, um
Speaker 1: you're from with birds nest soup? Yes, okay. So there's
Speaker 1: a type of swallow, a cliff dwelling swallow. I'm not
Speaker 1: talking to you, I'm talking to the listener. There's a
Speaker 1: cliff dwelling swallow that produces a spit that has a
Speaker 1: glue like quality to it, and they take nesting materials
Speaker 1: coated with this spit and then build their nest and
Speaker 1: birds nest soup it's the thing that people do to you. Basically,
Speaker 1: take this thing and simmer it and extract that viscous
Speaker 1: liquid from it, and it's used to make like a
Speaker 1: somewhat viscous consumme a. I took cliff swallow, you know,
Speaker 1: the mud ones, the mud nests that you see here
Speaker 1: under bridges and stuff. I took a bunch of those
Speaker 1: and bashed them up and boiled them for a long time,
Speaker 1: and then let the dirt settle and strained it off
Speaker 1: and reduce that down. And I could never find what
Speaker 1: I was after, Like, I could never get like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah spit, Yeah, that viscous spit. Different types of swallow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but go on, um tongues, So yeah, tongues. What do
Speaker 1: we we're talking about? Sort of what's my take or
Speaker 1: what's my I think it's a muscle worth eating. I
Speaker 1: think it's uh, I think it's just it's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: If you look at the commercial industry. Um, you know
Speaker 1: that the commercial industry waste very little because everything's got
Speaker 1: value to it. You know, I messed I messed you up.
Speaker 1: That's not where you were? Where was that feet? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: could you do a turkey footwork? Have you done with
Speaker 1: the wild turkey? No? I haven't reason, I don't know
Speaker 1: what I say. My geese feet for stock? Yeah? Clean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Canada's um so their feet are pretty nasty, so I
Speaker 1: always wash them clean potatoes, scrubber, scrub them off, and
Speaker 1: then I blanch in boiling water in case there's anything
Speaker 1: bacterial wise on it, because you don't want all that
Speaker 1: inside of your stock. So yeah, I blanched them, scrub them,
Speaker 1: and then um knife start to break them out the
Speaker 1: joints to sort of open them up, and then I
Speaker 1: throw them in the stock. No ship there you go.
Speaker 1: Every almost every part of the animal I mean, could
Speaker 1: be simmered down to a flavored broth. There's no reason
Speaker 1: why not to, you know. Yeah. On tongues, um, yeah.
Speaker 1: So for tongue, for me, it's I enjoy it a
Speaker 1: few different ways. The way Danielle's recipe shares, which is
Speaker 1: slow cooked until it's tender, peeled and then browned off. Right,
Speaker 1: If I do, I have that right and seasoned. Um.
Speaker 1: I like it that way. I also like it more
Speaker 1: as a deli meat as well, So slow cooked until
Speaker 1: tender peeled and then left whole. And and so I'll
Speaker 1: cook a tongue, peel it back, and then once it's
Speaker 1: at that tender place, I'll just refreeze it a again
Speaker 1: and just label it cooked tongue, and at that point
Speaker 1: it's ready for kind of an array of possibilities. You
Speaker 1: could your tongues too, or just bigger ones, but I
Speaker 1: usually just mess with the bigger ones as of yet,
Speaker 1: I have a very limited time in my day to
Speaker 1: day and and the r O I comment earlier, it's
Speaker 1: kind of bang for your buck, like an elk tongue
Speaker 1: or a cow tongue. Um just has more bang for
Speaker 1: your buck. I'll go down they harvest bison on the
Speaker 1: park line here in southwest Montana as part of a
Speaker 1: indigenous hunting opportunity for native tribes from the Pacific Northwest
Speaker 1: to come in and hunt bison that are coming out
Speaker 1: of Yellowstone Park. And all often go down during that
Speaker 1: time of year and pick up heart and um kidney
Speaker 1: and call fat and tongue if they don't want them,
Speaker 1: because I mean, that's major bang for your buck. Freaming
Speaker 1: he well, you know, um but so so so I'll
Speaker 1: keep a cold, a cooked tongue in the freezer and
Speaker 1: at that point I'll thought out and slack it and
Speaker 1: uh and then just slice it. Course, slack it means
Speaker 1: is a restaurant term when you pull something out of
Speaker 1: the freezer and let it thought slowly, Right, so you
Speaker 1: would pull something and put it on the tray and
Speaker 1: throw it in the fridge for a couple of days
Speaker 1: and let it slack or thaw out and or put
Speaker 1: it on your counter. Um. I always felt like when
Speaker 1: you dump a frozen something because you're stressed and hustling,
Speaker 1: you don't have time, and you dump it in warm water,
Speaker 1: you're you're almost like stressing more water and moisture out
Speaker 1: of the meat, and you end up you end up
Speaker 1: with a lot more coming out of it than when
Speaker 1: you just let it naturally thaw on its own at
Speaker 1: room temp. Um. But so when the tongue is then thought,
Speaker 1: I'll just cut it like just quarter inch, just like
Speaker 1: you would have steak sandwich, and I'll throw it on
Speaker 1: a bagel with a arugular or sprouts and onion and
Speaker 1: good mustard and mayo and what and just make a
Speaker 1: sandwich out of it. Now. Oh yeah, it's amazing and
Speaker 1: uh and and it's interesting. Right, So I have this
Speaker 1: thought a lot, is that how often are folks eating
Speaker 1: meat without seasonings, without salt, without any herbs, without anything
Speaker 1: but the meat just like and know, like that's what
Speaker 1: rabbit tastes like, that's what antelope tastes like. That's what
Speaker 1: rarely right, and so oftentimes we're eating a combination of
Speaker 1: It's like seeing something naked for the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing to eat meat. You know what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 1: like you look like you know, but to eat something
Speaker 1: without any of the dressings, and it's it's a never, yeah, never,
Speaker 1: And you should do it because then it starts the
Speaker 1: fundamental process of of the education of well, that's what
Speaker 1: it tastes like. Ok Now, is a little bit of salt.
Speaker 1: But if I really barely, like what's this like, I
Speaker 1: still put a little bit of salt on it. But
Speaker 1: you're right, you should strip it down. Well. Boiled pasta,
Speaker 1: just for the easiest test, just boiled pasta in naked
Speaker 1: water and boiled pasta in salted water, and you're sounds
Speaker 1: so much that you're tasting the salt if it's see
Speaker 1: if it's salted appropriately is salt dehydrates, So salt pulls
Speaker 1: out natural flavors in the form of dehydration. It's pulling
Speaker 1: out moisture from anything. You put salt on an apple,
Speaker 1: it's gonna you're gonna see liquid come up, and that's natural,
Speaker 1: that's the moisture that's within that organic matter, right, And
Speaker 1: so salt thing is kind of fundamental to pulling natural flavor.
Speaker 1: You can over salt and that's a bad deal too. Um. So,
Speaker 1: So that's one way I like to cold slice a tongue.
Speaker 1: And then another one that I want to mess with
Speaker 1: more is um is slow cooking it till it's tender
Speaker 1: and um and then slicing it and then frying it
Speaker 1: so you're still trying to brown it. But I'll just
Speaker 1: I'll shallow fry it in a cast iron full of ward, right,
Speaker 1: and maybe dredged a little bit too, so that that's
Speaker 1: put Take that cold sliced tongue, season it with some
Speaker 1: salt and pepper, if you will, flour, and then fry it.
Speaker 1: And now all of a sudden you have this crispy
Speaker 1: little like chicken fried steak thing happening. And that's pretty sweet. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I want I've been wanting to do the same thing
Speaker 1: because then it for me, it reminds me of calamari almost. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tech soft texture, crisp, we exter exterior. Have you ever
Speaker 1: sue vied tongue? I haven't haven't either. No, i I'm
Speaker 1: currently personal like personal like headbutting match within my own
Speaker 1: mind between Suvie versus No Suvie and the love hate
Speaker 1: kind of going on. And explain that, explain, give me
Speaker 1: the give me the argument against each well, if anyone
Speaker 1: out there does or does not, if you do not
Speaker 1: know what suvie cookery is, suvie cookery is basically in French,
Speaker 1: I think it translates to cooked in vacuum, and it's
Speaker 1: basically you are taking anything, putting it in a plastic
Speaker 1: bag of some kind, moving all the air out ziplock
Speaker 1: back seal bag exactly and then uh and then submerging
Speaker 1: that bag in water bath and using an immersion wand
Speaker 1: a heated wand to then circulate and maintain a temperature
Speaker 1: of of of within the water, which then brings that
Speaker 1: food in the bag to that temperature and holds it
Speaker 1: at that temperature. Just like you're doing a great job
Speaker 1: right now. I feel we should just have you on
Speaker 1: hand just now and an to do an explanation of something.
Speaker 1: I don't know what suvied was. That was super educational.
Speaker 1: It's been around it's like the seventies yea, And yet
Speaker 1: it's just like GPS. I always here and then when
Speaker 1: people are like suvied, I'm like, oh yeah, I always
Speaker 1: thought that was something like so new. Well, but it's
Speaker 1: new to us. So GPS is not new to the world.
Speaker 1: But it's like so many things that require um development
Speaker 1: and R and D. There's a ton of time and
Speaker 1: energy and money it goes in. So it's usually developed
Speaker 1: for the industry and then it comes down to the consumer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's already Like when was the life cycle
Speaker 1: in like New York restaurants of Suvie, Well, they didn't,
Speaker 1: they didn't quit. It was that was it was. That's
Speaker 1: where it found its use. That's where it found its
Speaker 1: thing is you could you could if you're a caterer, say,
Speaker 1: or you're doing a wedding and you need to have
Speaker 1: at six o'clock, you're gonna serve one hundred four steaks, okay,
Speaker 1: it would be that you would have this giant tank
Speaker 1: with a circulator in there and all those sons of
Speaker 1: bits and steaks are in there at one degrees yes,
Speaker 1: and they're just ready to go, and then you pull
Speaker 1: them out, put a sea on them, put a flame
Speaker 1: on him, and wham. The door at the same time,
Speaker 1: or you could pre prep all these entrees and have
Speaker 1: them already and you and you start serving dinner at five,
Speaker 1: and you're serving dinner until one in the morning in
Speaker 1: a bistro, and all this ship is just like done,
Speaker 1: it's done. The order comes in, you grab the bag out,
Speaker 1: open the bag up, put a sea on it. It's
Speaker 1: fucking scallops whatever, put a sea on them. Out the door.
Speaker 1: And you're just basically grabbing sacks out of a hot
Speaker 1: tank of water, putting the finish and touches on it,
Speaker 1: dressed a dish, go out the door. But wouldn't you
Speaker 1: agree also, And it's not it's not like they quit
Speaker 1: doing that because it got hip. They're still doing it, right.
Speaker 1: But I think that there was a hip nous at
Speaker 1: one point to it where people were like, I am
Speaker 1: going to find a sou vied steak filet or whatever
Speaker 1: because it is special when it was on the menu listed, like,
Speaker 1: rather me into some secret trick that would be off
Speaker 1: putting the people. Everyone remember when Kale was all over
Speaker 1: the menu, It's like, not Kale's not sucking new to anywhere,
Speaker 1: because like someone started busting Kale's balls because it's got
Speaker 1: like what's wrong with kale? Everybody got hip on kale,
Speaker 1: and then it came out that everybody started busting balls
Speaker 1: on kale because Kale has some problem. So there's I
Speaker 1: have no problem with Kale. But when it comes to
Speaker 1: Stuvie cookery, it was developed in the late seventies early
Speaker 1: eighties and went through the industrial use and and then
Speaker 1: just I think it hit the restaurant scene like in
Speaker 1: the later later nine like late late nineties, and then
Speaker 1: two thousand's and then consumers. I think I didn't start
Speaker 1: seeing a purchasable you go to Amazon and buy a wand,
Speaker 1: which is what they're called an immersion wand and um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like Brevel Rebel has the Jewel, the a Nova, that's
Speaker 1: when I have and you can control them with an
Speaker 1: app on your phone. So it's just a continuation of
Speaker 1: these these these tools like GPS and hunting now and
Speaker 1: and on X on our phone and everything else, like
Speaker 1: these things that enable us to just continue to be
Speaker 1: badass at what we want to do in our world.
Speaker 1: But my thing with Suvied is, yes, you could take
Speaker 1: the toughest cut of meat. And I've been doing more
Speaker 1: and more of this where I will literally so I
Speaker 1: some people wrap in plastic wrap and then butcher paper
Speaker 1: if you're butchering at home. I really stick to the
Speaker 1: vacuum sealed you know, almost everything. Um. I just feel
Speaker 1: that you if you can freeze it for longer. And
Speaker 1: and what I've started to do is I'll thaw the
Speaker 1: item in the bag and I'll go directly into the
Speaker 1: suvie machine once it's thawed, so rather than you can't
Speaker 1: throw it in FROs and but you better account for
Speaker 1: that because it takes a lot longer. Um. But so
Speaker 1: here's the deal, is that you can suvie a tough
Speaker 1: cut like we'll just call it like a deer shank
Speaker 1: and um, and then pull it out twenty hours later
Speaker 1: at a hundred and seventy degrees and it's falling apart
Speaker 1: tender now. But there is no caramelization of sugars, which
Speaker 1: is when you have a steak, or when you have
Speaker 1: a crispy fried egg, or when you have a brule
Speaker 1: aid creme brule. The the the the cooking of sugar
Speaker 1: to the point where it's about to turn into candy
Speaker 1: or burn is caramelization. And it's a beautiful thing like
Speaker 1: it's it's like frying that tongue meat that Danielle is
Speaker 1: talking about. And so what happens is is when you're
Speaker 1: Suvie cooking, you're wet cooking and there's no uh, there's
Speaker 1: no none of the sugars are being developed to a
Speaker 1: point of caramel, and so you're just losing on a
Speaker 1: ton of flavor. And so the old school method pre Suvie,
Speaker 1: which is to make something so you're trying to make
Speaker 1: something tender, is you're brazen, which is you're browning it
Speaker 1: and then you're putting it in a water or stock
Speaker 1: bath of some kind. You're putting it with liquid and
Speaker 1: aromatics like carrots and onions and garlic, and then you're
Speaker 1: slow cooking, so you're doing the same thing Suvie's doing,
Speaker 1: but you're browning at first, and all that browning is
Speaker 1: going into the brazen liquid, which then can become a
Speaker 1: beautiful gravy your sauce. Right. So that's where my love
Speaker 1: hate comes in, is like with Suvie, it's it's like
Speaker 1: you can put flavorings in the bag and then seal
Speaker 1: it up, and so it's I I love it, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, sometimes I don't want to let
Speaker 1: a ship. Like I could cook a deer shank right now.
Speaker 1: What time is it, It's like ten thirty. I could
Speaker 1: cook a deer shank right now through traditional brazing brown
Speaker 1: itt liquid in the ovenrees six hours and it will
Speaker 1: be ready for dinner at six pm, like falling off
Speaker 1: the bone in the gravy in that pan is ready
Speaker 1: to go. I'll have to do is mashed potatoes. Right.
Speaker 1: So I'll counter that by saying I'll see it before
Speaker 1: like a roast. Sometimes I'll see it in a pan,
Speaker 1: put it in the bag. I'll put just a little
Speaker 1: bit of sock on the pan to sort of wipe
Speaker 1: up that fond poured in the bag. The fond you've
Speaker 1: got your own word. I noticed it on the glossary
Speaker 1: term scraping. Fun. Fond is another word for scrapings. Scrapings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fond is the fancy culinary term. Dude, How do I
Speaker 1: not know so much stuff you read es? I get it,
Speaker 1: I get it. I just have never heard it described
Speaker 1: as fond. I mean it doesn't take the same root
Speaker 1: as fondue. No, obviously, no, never the word fun. At least,
Speaker 1: I admit it. A lot of dudes to say here
Speaker 1: going like uh huh uh huh, but I'm like never
Speaker 1: heard that. Well through your admittance, now everyone knows what fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'll do that. Um, and then a lot of
Speaker 1: juices still extract from that meat, and you have like
Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe like half a cup of really
Speaker 1: nice juices in there. But I agree on something like
Speaker 1: a shank you miss out on like really building a
Speaker 1: flavorful braise liquid. So for something like also Buco or
Speaker 1: anything like that, I would probably always brace it versus yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well and and so and really Okay, So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: distill my love hate down just to make it really clear.
Speaker 1: It's a time thing. So the recipe that I've known
Speaker 1: to come by if I want me to fall off
Speaker 1: the shank bone is roughly twenty hours at a hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy degrees fahrenheit. That's just what it takes. That's
Speaker 1: a long time for suvie or for whereas and you
Speaker 1: just have to plan ahead, do you just do right?
Speaker 1: But I don't always have the luxury planning ahead. So
Speaker 1: for me, six hours old school style in the oven,
Speaker 1: out of the oven, one pot, one pan. It's really
Speaker 1: just as simple. It just takes less time and you
Speaker 1: do end up with like a court or a substantial
Speaker 1: amount of gravy that's pretty beautiful. So they're both great technic.
Speaker 1: Can's kind of throw Then I'm gonna ask you another question.
Speaker 1: Let's go. I'm throwing one more thought in here. I
Speaker 1: think that when an argument in favor of doing say
Speaker 1: a sabuco suvied is that you don't need to be
Speaker 1: there to monitor it, and the window of it being
Speaker 1: done is a much broader window. Right, Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: like very safe to like leave your home leave this
Speaker 1: thing in there. You like, yeah, it'll be done maybe
Speaker 1: around six pm in this case, but six pm tomorrow,
Speaker 1: but you know, ten pm it will be kind of
Speaker 1: the same way. So I would argue that, and it
Speaker 1: was doesn't know not argue. I'm just gonna add to that.
Speaker 1: These are all great options for anybody listening to get into. Right,
Speaker 1: um is a crock pot, you know crock pots electrical.
Speaker 1: It's super bomber and safe. It's no different than putting
Speaker 1: it in the oven. And in a way, yeah, with
Speaker 1: the lid on it, it's self basting, meaning you're evaporating
Speaker 1: the broth and up to the lid and it's falling
Speaker 1: back down onto the meat. And that's I mean, people
Speaker 1: win home cooks that are busier than I am when
Speaker 1: every day with a crock pot like great invention. Somehow, though,
Speaker 1: I feel like if I do the same exact recipe,
Speaker 1: let's just say a sibuco, yeah, in a crock pot
Speaker 1: and then the Dutch oven with the lid in the oven,
Speaker 1: I feel like I get a different result. Right, I
Speaker 1: think the oven is a little bit better, and I
Speaker 1: think that it's somehow there's like a different kind of
Speaker 1: reduction going on, Like maybe the the way the lid
Speaker 1: you peeled off and you got like a something that
Speaker 1: tastes really good stuck to the lid of your Dutch oven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that isn't there on a crock pot. I think it
Speaker 1: has to do with its dry heat versus wet heat.
Speaker 1: When you're in a crock pot, it's a steam based
Speaker 1: environment again, and when you're in an oven, the exterior
Speaker 1: of that crock pot is all dry heat. It's just
Speaker 1: it's a different It's um it's like you know, being
Speaker 1: warmed by the sun being versus being warmed by a sauna.
Speaker 1: So just it's different. I was gonna say, would fireplace
Speaker 1: versus sauna? Good? Now, Yeah, let me ask you another question.
Speaker 1: They're gonna ask Daniel another question. Here's my question for you.
Speaker 1: If you're living out of a freezer, like eating out
Speaker 1: of a freezer all the time. You were talking earlier
Speaker 1: about pulling it, like pulling the tongue out and let
Speaker 1: it just going into the fridge and let it take
Speaker 1: its time. How do you like the thought fish out
Speaker 1: of your freezer countertop, room temperature? What about you? I
Speaker 1: do that I do in my fridge, I do in
Speaker 1: uh back bag in cold water depending. I just didn't
Speaker 1: know if there was like because you having a lot
Speaker 1: of like technical training. Yeah, it's sort of like where
Speaker 1: you where you have this, you know you have like
Speaker 1: what works. Then there's also like food safety issues and
Speaker 1: all that kind of ship from commercial kitchens. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you had a different perspective on thong fish,
Speaker 1: if you had like never you can't ever set it
Speaker 1: on your counter, No you can. I mean the only
Speaker 1: thing I would say is size matters here. So if
Speaker 1: you are thawing out some huge piece of fish, like
Speaker 1: large larger than a turkey, like the belly off a
Speaker 1: sixty pound flat fifty pound flathood. Okay, Well, so the
Speaker 1: only caution here is that at that point I would
Speaker 1: thaw in the fridge and I would give it four days.
Speaker 1: And the only reason why is so it's a controlled
Speaker 1: environment where the extremities of that piece of meat are
Speaker 1: are never reaching an ambient room Tampa fifty or sixty
Speaker 1: while the inside is still frozen and you're waiting for
Speaker 1: that to happen, whereas it's always going to be at
Speaker 1: the outside is thirty something or forty forty, whatever your
Speaker 1: fridge is at as it slacks. That's a good point
Speaker 1: because you pull like, like, let's say, your thawing out
Speaker 1: of venison neck. Oh, I'll take forever some bitches sitting
Speaker 1: on your counter, sitting in like a pool of its
Speaker 1: own blood. Yeah, it's all just looks like all sad
Speaker 1: and warm. Then you get in there and still like
Speaker 1: still icy in the middle fridge. Yeah, yeah, totally. Guys. Um,
Speaker 1: do you guys want to talk about kidneys or hearts? First?
Speaker 1: Game kidneys or game hearts first? I have actually never
Speaker 1: cooked game well any kidney, let's talk about game hearts.
Speaker 1: I haven't either. I'd liked if anybody has some experience
Speaker 1: with you. I mean maybe in a scrambles. No, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say like in um oh, shoot, was it
Speaker 1: called giblets, giblets giblets? Yeah, I made kidney pudding with elk.
Speaker 1: Kidney tastes like piss. I messed it up. I didn't
Speaker 1: do it right. But when I do kidneys, I just
Speaker 1: cube him up. I know you've had this with me.
Speaker 1: Did you do it on their fognack out kidney with
Speaker 1: the kidney there? Yeah? Yeah, but that was like, no,
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm saying like, okay, sure, so yes,
Speaker 1: I have ingested it. But as we were eating, as
Speaker 1: we were eating that dish, I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a kidney tastes like like very heavily seasoned with a
Speaker 1: bunch of other cuts in. Okay, yeah, do I walk
Speaker 1: around eating a kidney like an apple? But do I
Speaker 1: have you had it the way most people have it,
Speaker 1: where you peel the skin, you're supposed to give it
Speaker 1: a good soak, cube it up and put it in
Speaker 1: like an egg scramble. Put it in an Oregon scramble
Speaker 1: with mo foulon with MO make the camera bleed foulon.
Speaker 1: We even had kidney lung heart that was out of
Speaker 1: pre Were you working Were you working for us when
Speaker 1: we filmed in New Zealand? Nope? Oh all right. Were
Speaker 1: you working for us when we filmed up on the Brakes? Nope,
Speaker 1: you weren't. I was part time, but I had other
Speaker 1: commitments that fall guiding, and so that was one of
Speaker 1: the trips that I I I've never cooked game kidney,
Speaker 1: and I have a collection of them in the freezer
Speaker 1: right now that I've been wanting to do a steak
Speaker 1: and kidney pie. Just pop pies like a big Dutch
Speaker 1: of and pop peye. I think that'd be good. I
Speaker 1: think the thing with kidneys, if you look historically, it's um,
Speaker 1: it's oregan meat, and it's one of those things that
Speaker 1: it is protein. However, I'm certain they realize that it's
Speaker 1: you know, to just cook it medium are and slice
Speaker 1: it like a steak is like, yeah, it tastes okay. However,
Speaker 1: when it's dressed properly with a sauce and accompanying things,
Speaker 1: darn palatable and um. And sometimes I think, you know,
Speaker 1: you can look historically at recipes and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: they've been doing that for a long time. That's why
Speaker 1: it succeeds so that I have an interest in doing
Speaker 1: kidney pie for sure. Kidney. In my opinion, kidney falls
Speaker 1: into the trifecta of wild game ingredients that need to
Speaker 1: come from young critters. M M. It's like anybody who
Speaker 1: ever had sweetbreads. Anybody's eating sweetbreads in a restaurant, like
Speaker 1: a sweetbreads a thamus gland, it is delectable, it is
Speaker 1: phenomenal off veal. So like a six month old cow
Speaker 1: to get slaughtered, the thamus gland or the sweetbread is beautiful.
Speaker 1: As the animal gets older, it turns the gland matures
Speaker 1: into this kind of waxy thing that no one eats.
Speaker 1: I can't remember which planes tribe. Maybe it's the black Feet.
Speaker 1: I had a belief that um or at least here's
Speaker 1: the way euro Americans who spent time among them, captured
Speaker 1: what they took to be their belief. I always want
Speaker 1: to clarify that nowadays that at a time buffalo hunted
Speaker 1: and eight humans, and then humans got the bow and
Speaker 1: turned the tides and began hunting buffalo and eating them,
Speaker 1: and that the thymus gland was a chunk of human
Speaker 1: meat still stuck in the buffalo's throat. Again, this is
Speaker 1: as explained by by a Euro American traveler who traveled
Speaker 1: and hunted among them, So he could have got it
Speaker 1: all wrong, but that was his take on what was
Speaker 1: going on. One missed word could have totally you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yeah, because you hear last then you're like,
Speaker 1: now that you understand kind of like who how these
Speaker 1: things passed along? You realize that ship gets missed. But
Speaker 1: that was his take on it. Um. However, it turns
Speaker 1: the wax later, like I've tried to pull thamas glands
Speaker 1: out of game animals and it's just nothing. Like you know,
Speaker 1: I've peeled sweetbreads out of eld It's nothing. They're not
Speaker 1: the same. I think the other two components would be
Speaker 1: liver on old. Like you take a liver of a
Speaker 1: four year old white tail, it is not the same thing.
Speaker 1: All Yeah, the deliver out of a fawn of the year,
Speaker 1: and kidneys don't improve with age, So that I have
Speaker 1: a cat throw question. And on top of this, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: age of what you're harvesting and eating. What's everyone's opinion
Speaker 1: on eating baby animals versus full grown animals. I think
Speaker 1: that the big I used to be like, you know,
Speaker 1: people used to say this all the time, like, oh,
Speaker 1: the big ones don't taste good. Dude, I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: there is nothing on this planet that is better than
Speaker 1: a big, big mealed your bucks that when you pull
Speaker 1: their highe they got like an inch of fat on
Speaker 1: their back. Is that the the answer you're you're getting
Speaker 1: you're wanting to get out, are you? Or is it
Speaker 1: more of the killing a young animal versus an old animal?
Speaker 1: All of it? I mean, there's six of us here.
Speaker 1: I mean, so I'm with Steve. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: recipes that my dad used to make, he would ask
Speaker 1: me to go harvest an old mule deer buck because
Speaker 1: he we knew it have huge fat on it and
Speaker 1: he wanted that as part of the thickening agent for
Speaker 1: his sauce. But some folks, you know, like maybe look
Speaker 1: at a spotted Vaughan and they're like, I can't kill that,
Speaker 1: you know, So I just wonder what, you know, like anything, cross,
Speaker 1: I don't have any I don't like the morality of it,
Speaker 1: or the ethics of it, or the aesthetics of it.
Speaker 1: I don't give a shit either way, Like it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter to me. At all. Yeah, it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 1: I always grew up as far as like eating old
Speaker 1: versus young, I always grew up with people like I
Speaker 1: grew up a lot of meat hunters, UM in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: meat hunters. Yeah, And I always they always said, like
Speaker 1: old bucks are just nasty. Yeah, growing up, I had
Speaker 1: that in my head. But like people put it in
Speaker 1: your head. Yeah, you shoot a little buck like that's
Speaker 1: a good eater. Yeah. But you know, as i've you know,
Speaker 1: got more into like cooking my own ship, I've never
Speaker 1: noticed the difference. I mean I've noticed with mule deer.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the reasoning is, um, but like
Speaker 1: last year, UM, I had four different mule deer in
Speaker 1: my freezer, and I made the mistake of not labeling
Speaker 1: which deer was. And some of those deer just tougher
Speaker 1: in hell, had like a like a real like irony
Speaker 1: taste to it. I don't know, it's because I handled
Speaker 1: it wrong. And then other deer were they were they
Speaker 1: crippled up, limping around for four days before you found him. No, um,
Speaker 1: an other other mule deer were just phenomenal. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: did not last year, two years ago, we did a
Speaker 1: pepsi challenge. We had a year and a half old
Speaker 1: buck and probably what a three year old buck, maybe
Speaker 1: three or four year old buck eating the subitch raw.
Speaker 1: So it's like back legs. Now, granted one had been
Speaker 1: aged for a few day a's and one wasn't, So
Speaker 1: that's substantial, but it substantio because one was literally in
Speaker 1: rigor mortis. But throws off the challenge. It throws off
Speaker 1: the challenge, but it also informs the challenge, okay, because
Speaker 1: everyone thought the big buck was better just eating it
Speaker 1: as carpaccio. So even though they weren't totally equal and
Speaker 1: it wouldn't hold up the scientific rigor the test, it
Speaker 1: does say that handling. It suggests it might suggest to
Speaker 1: one that handling actually trumps age of animal. Here, I
Speaker 1: have a question you cool that you're honestly, I totally
Speaker 1: agree with that UM. Last year, one of the like
Speaker 1: we always have a big deer camp every year. One
Speaker 1: of the UM one of the deer that was shot
Speaker 1: was it was like next shot dropped immediately and we
Speaker 1: immediately went over there and started working on it. And
Speaker 1: like as we're cutting, some of the muscle groups are
Speaker 1: like still twitching and stuff. Do you think that causes
Speaker 1: any problems as far as like taste toughness, I can't
Speaker 1: say you mean in regards to not waiting until the
Speaker 1: nerves have kind of run the settled down to cut it.
Speaker 1: I don't know that's a People talk about that all
Speaker 1: the time as if it's like life and death, like
Speaker 1: don't don't mess with it until that time has passed.
Speaker 1: But think about how many people shoot a deer and
Speaker 1: the temperatures are in the seventies. You can't wait around.
Speaker 1: It's imperative to get that cooled off as fast as possible.
Speaker 1: But there's like post processing things you can do, like
Speaker 1: eight wet aging a dry aging um like you were saying,
Speaker 1: I think that trumps that, like the age of the animal,
Speaker 1: like how you take care of it in the field
Speaker 1: and at home is makes a bigger difference than it
Speaker 1: does how old he shot. Except when it comes to waterfowl,
Speaker 1: I think I think waterfowl is totally different. I think
Speaker 1: a young bird is going to be insanely tender and
Speaker 1: an old bird it's just not Yes, okay, we're getting
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas stacked on top of you. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to get to this and I want I
Speaker 1: was hoping to talk about hearts, but now we'll get
Speaker 1: this more important stuff coming up. We're getting a lot
Speaker 1: of ideas stacked. I want to put two to bed,
Speaker 1: getting to the heart of it. Yeah, I wanna put
Speaker 1: two things bed. One. When I was talking about thamus, glands,
Speaker 1: kidneys and livers, it's better on young animals. And this
Speaker 1: is something that's always been widely accepted in cuisine, is
Speaker 1: that those organs, for whatever, like as they live out
Speaker 1: their life of filtering or the animal matures or something,
Speaker 1: they just change the texture on the changes, the flavor
Speaker 1: them changes. And it's to the point where in the
Speaker 1: commercial industry it's a difference between going to market and
Speaker 1: going to a rendering plant. Not that they know everything,
Speaker 1: they get everything right, but these are like broadly accepted.
Speaker 1: And the red in the horned and antlered game world,
Speaker 1: I think that there's a tremendous amount of mystery. I
Speaker 1: think that there's one huge variabilities between the animals life histories.
Speaker 1: This is the point I make in our new Wild
Speaker 1: Game cookbook they have coming out. It's like not all
Speaker 1: things are equal as far as as far as you know.
Speaker 1: Some coming at you through the woods. He might have
Speaker 1: spent three days hung up on a barbedware fence with
Speaker 1: Kyle's chewing on him, and then he finally gets himself
Speaker 1: off there, and then he comes through the woods and
Speaker 1: you shoot him. And that's his life history that you'll
Speaker 1: never know. And there's a that makes a big difference.
Speaker 1: He might have been and sad. He might have winnered
Speaker 1: in some shitty spot and been starving to death all winner.
Speaker 1: You just there's so much variability with the animals that
Speaker 1: you just don't know, and you might get something that
Speaker 1: tastes off and blame yourself for it and puzzle over,
Speaker 1: oh if I had not hung it for a day,
Speaker 1: or had it hung it longer, Like you don't know.
Speaker 1: The beauty of not the beauty of something of the
Speaker 1: commercial meat processing industry is that they have got things
Speaker 1: standardized to a bizarre degree. It's like you have an
Speaker 1: animal of a known lineage. It's born, it's fed a
Speaker 1: certain diet. It hits eight hundred pounds, it goes on
Speaker 1: to a feed mixture of x percent corn and x
Speaker 1: percent this. It's treated with this. It gets to eleven pounds,
Speaker 1: it goes to slaughter. They all line up the exact
Speaker 1: same thing happens to every one of them. The exact
Speaker 1: same process time happens to every one of them. They
Speaker 1: go into a cooler for just about the exact same time,
Speaker 1: and it comes out, and it's like they're stamping them
Speaker 1: out like a car factory, and it's like they know
Speaker 1: the variability ship. They kind of know. It's not like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like, hey, let's let's let this
Speaker 1: one lay out in the sun for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you go to the store to buy beef, you
Speaker 1: know what you're getting and what it's gonna taste like,
Speaker 1: there's like no question about that. When you're hunting, you
Speaker 1: have no idea what you're coming home, what it's, what
Speaker 1: it's already been through. So I think that that's what
Speaker 1: leads to a lot of the mystery about oh this
Speaker 1: one time we had or whatever. I mean, my brother
Speaker 1: killed a bull elk on time. Nothing you did to
Speaker 1: that sun, bitch. It was hard to chew up. It
Speaker 1: was like any other bull. Elk come six point bull
Speaker 1: coming across the mountain by am, bull falls over dead.
Speaker 1: It's cold out do the same thing to do with
Speaker 1: every elk. He could never chew that sun bitch. I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to it. Um not that that
Speaker 1: puts that thing to rest, because now we're entering the
Speaker 1: like really interesting territory where I think that like foul rabbits, squirrels,
Speaker 1: that's some age specific ship there. I think if you
Speaker 1: kill a contail rabbit, you can tear its ear, you
Speaker 1: can tear its ear like a piece of paper after
Speaker 1: it's dead. That's a young rabbit. It's just a different
Speaker 1: critter than old rabbit. And a pheasant that's two three
Speaker 1: years old ain't the same thing. You can't just you
Speaker 1: can't just take that thing in in a You can't
Speaker 1: just take that thing and throw it on it can
Speaker 1: when you're cleaning pheasant, you can tell the difference like
Speaker 1: a younger pheasant and an older pheasant. The way that
Speaker 1: meat comes off that bone is just totally different than
Speaker 1: like an old rose or you're like you're cutting it
Speaker 1: off off the breastplate, and a young one You're like,
Speaker 1: this is kind of just peeled off. You're like there's
Speaker 1: something wrong with that. It's just so yeah, And you
Speaker 1: could tell. But you can take the pheasants wings, stretch
Speaker 1: the pheasants wing off and see if all the primary
Speaker 1: feathers are. If all the primary feathers are the same length,
Speaker 1: it's an older bird, and I would braise that bird.
Speaker 1: I would slow cook that bird. If the primary feathers aren't,
Speaker 1: it's different. So how many folks we kind of getting
Speaker 1: to Chris and Yanna still though, I mean, I'm just
Speaker 1: still curious about you wanna talk about that gray rabbit?
Speaker 1: Like like we're hunting. We're all hunters at this table,
Speaker 1: and we're you know, so hunting is the super conscious
Speaker 1: act of setting your sight literally and figuratively on a
Speaker 1: one thing and then harvesting it hopefully. So like are
Speaker 1: you targeting age ever? You know's like with birds that
Speaker 1: must be crazy challenging. How the heck do you targeted bird? Wall?
Speaker 1: Its flying? I don't think you could get any small games? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. I mean, I think the only time I've
Speaker 1: done that is when I have a cow elk tag
Speaker 1: and I've gotten onto a herd and you can see
Speaker 1: who's like big mom a lead cow. Yeah, buddy, Jimmy
Speaker 1: Miller calls her Jenny long muzzle. You know she's got
Speaker 1: like muzzle on her and uh, you know she's usually
Speaker 1: leading the pack and then behind her you've got like
Speaker 1: the mediums, and then hopefully there's some calves around, you know,
Speaker 1: because you really need to see all of the sizes
Speaker 1: to to to make the call, because oftentimes, like the
Speaker 1: cow I killed last year, she's by herself with a
Speaker 1: bull young five point both to three years old, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm like a perfect size medium. You want the mediums,
Speaker 1: you don't want Jenny longnose, what's her name, long muzzle.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I shoot her, walk up to her
Speaker 1: and by you know, just a giant, you know, and
Speaker 1: she's been eating like with Steve, didn't think so I
Speaker 1: served something when we were in Missouri everything. I was like, bitch,
Speaker 1: you've been bitching about that alcohol year, the best thing
Speaker 1: I've had a long time. She just got just a
Speaker 1: little more outdented than uh. Then maybe, but then again,
Speaker 1: it could be like all these factors, right, coincidence and this,
Speaker 1: that and the other that we're just not you don't
Speaker 1: know what happened. But anyway, there's is running around out there.
Speaker 1: If you're in a hunt season, there's cows running around
Speaker 1: out there that are eight months old, and there's cows
Speaker 1: running out there that are twenty years old. So well,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty spoiled. I don't really have an opinion on it,
Speaker 1: but I'm spoiled because like whenever I eat gamey, it's
Speaker 1: always cooked by like everybody at this table, and everybody
Speaker 1: at the table side is a good cook. So like,
Speaker 1: whatever I'm eating, I'm stoked on it, you know. So
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't have enough experience in my own
Speaker 1: like culinary world to know like, oh, a young animal
Speaker 1: versus an older animal, or so let me ask you
Speaker 1: a question outside, Like we'll go conventional for a second.
Speaker 1: If you're buying groceries, are you buying mixed baby greens
Speaker 1: or whole heads of lettuce baby greens? Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1: So you like babies too, Yeah yeah, yeah, so that's you'll.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you'll you'll select. Like let's say
Speaker 1: you're hunting deer and you got a Schmoorgus board of
Speaker 1: mountain front of you. Yeah, you shoot for young. I'll
Speaker 1: do both. So I I try to pull, um, I
Speaker 1: try to pull tags for my area that um, if
Speaker 1: I can get some surplus tags or get a few
Speaker 1: b tags, um, I will I'll try to go for
Speaker 1: a young Like let's call it max three year old
Speaker 1: male of any species, because I think it has higher weight,
Speaker 1: you know, so I'm gonna be bringing more meat to
Speaker 1: the freezer from home. That's that's that's an important and
Speaker 1: it's it's probably the only sure way in the big
Speaker 1: game world that I know of to tell an age.
Speaker 1: Is a raghorn or a forked horn or something along,
Speaker 1: you know, like you know by its antler size, how
Speaker 1: old it is. Whereas that cow at three yards, that
Speaker 1: cow welk, you really don't know if it's going to
Speaker 1: be Jenny the long muzzle or you know, Jenny the
Speaker 1: short muscle. And so I try to go with that
Speaker 1: my A tag every year, and then with a B tag,
Speaker 1: I will so that's my meat that's bringing home some weight,
Speaker 1: is like a forked torn a rag torn. And then
Speaker 1: with the B tag, I target um. I you white
Speaker 1: tailor muled or dough TEGs. We don't get a lot
Speaker 1: where I'm at, but white tail, I'll target small like
Speaker 1: first year, second year animals, and that specifically for a
Speaker 1: whole leg cooking and and just tender, tender meat and
Speaker 1: even the organ meats that are terrific um when young.
Speaker 1: So you're shooting for the freezer. Yeah, and then it
Speaker 1: brings it to the next level, whereas I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: how do I kill this? If I do a hart shot,
Speaker 1: it ruins a lot of good stuff in there. If
Speaker 1: I do a like an upper base of the skull shot,
Speaker 1: then it's less but you have a higher risk of missing.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a combination of when I'm going for
Speaker 1: the younger animals the harvest, it's I don't know anyone
Speaker 1: else I hit that all the time. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: I try to put myself in a place where I
Speaker 1: know that I can make a like upper neck shot
Speaker 1: and not lose a shoulder because it steps right when
Speaker 1: I shoot, or that sucks for me when I end
Speaker 1: up losing a ton of meat through is uh copper
Speaker 1: bullets and just punch them in the shoulder. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I feel like, just like you're just not you're not
Speaker 1: getting that crazy purple trauma. You still with you, but
Speaker 1: you still get meat loss. You know, I've switched. I've switched.
Speaker 1: You can't get go without it, But I feel like
Speaker 1: you're still like it's still a shot where you can
Speaker 1: just drop them in their tracks, but go over there
Speaker 1: and cut out, you know, A couple of inches versus
Speaker 1: sometimes looking at like stuff that extends out like a
Speaker 1: foot on either side of the bullet hole. But a doorto.
Speaker 1: You still shoot big, huge, giant bulls, maybe three in
Speaker 1: my life, and you don't think of those as being
Speaker 1: fundamentally different. Right, they're different, but you know, you don't
Speaker 1: look down on them. Meat tastes great, everything else. But
Speaker 1: I you know, I know that with like a two
Speaker 1: year old bull, that loin or backstrap is just totally
Speaker 1: different than a six year old bull. I think so
Speaker 1: six year old bull backstrap. The way I like to
Speaker 1: cook it is, I'm tender rising the heck out of
Speaker 1: it with like the heel of a knife or fork
Speaker 1: or whatnot, almost like um what they call that, like
Speaker 1: a Swiss steak or something. Or they're kind of breaking
Speaker 1: all that connective tissue with like a cutter or something
Speaker 1: or a pounder. So so let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: and you gotta be you gotta be honest in your answer. Okay,
Speaker 1: you've you've gotten some big smoker bulls, but you're saying,
Speaker 1: like generally if you had a big tanker, now let's
Speaker 1: not say like a big tankary, like holy she I'll
Speaker 1: never see one like that again the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: But like a nice six and a raghorn. Typically you're
Speaker 1: saying you would shoot the rag horn. Yeah, unless it's
Speaker 1: like over a three seven, unless it's like holy sh it, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I'd rather pick up their sheds and you got a
Speaker 1: pile of them. I'd rather pick up their sheds because
Speaker 1: then you can like it's like the gift that keeps
Speaker 1: on giving. Yeah, I've I've I've shed a tear before
Speaker 1: when like we did, not that I would have said no,
Speaker 1: but my um my brother in law shot a bull
Speaker 1: and I know, I was like, I do I recognize
Speaker 1: that like something in me at however many hundred yards
Speaker 1: you were away, recognize that bowl somehow, like the face
Speaker 1: and then the colorings and not maybe even the aunt
Speaker 1: was a little bit. And then we walked up to it.
Speaker 1: It was like I was the first one there and
Speaker 1: I just without without even a shadow of dolls like
Speaker 1: I know that bowl, I have his sheds. I was like, fuck,
Speaker 1: never gonna get you know, pick up those sheds again.
Speaker 1: Um but yeah, you know, I uh my joy with
Speaker 1: antler hunting, big antler hunting. I love getting first time
Speaker 1: like people folks that are have never um you know,
Speaker 1: gone out and got a King of the Woods, you know,
Speaker 1: to put on their wall or whatever they want. I'm
Speaker 1: all about that. It's a beautiful thing and I love
Speaker 1: taking folks out for that. Um yeah, big time. Okay,
Speaker 1: Uh daniel O Ki walks through your heart recipe do
Speaker 1: your heart? I just did. I want to. I want
Speaker 1: to leave people with a with a good If you
Speaker 1: want to leave people with that, then I want to
Speaker 1: bring up one more thing about this. We're talking about waterfowl,
Speaker 1: and uh, please go ahead, because our buddy Boomer Hesley
Speaker 1: wrote in and I think I mentioned this to you
Speaker 1: about how we're always talking about meatcare four big game
Speaker 1: in the field, but rarely is that ever brought up
Speaker 1: for small game upland waterfowl. And he's saying like, yeah, Montana,
Speaker 1: you shoot a bird today, probably pretty chilled out in
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, right, even with all the feathers and on
Speaker 1: it whatnot. But if it's a sixties seventy degree day
Speaker 1: down south and you're not gutting immediately because you're spending
Speaker 1: three or four hours in the duck blind, like, how
Speaker 1: is that changing the meat? You know? How is that
Speaker 1: changing flavors. You know that you got going on in there,
Speaker 1: you're asking me, Yeah, I'm just kind of throwing that
Speaker 1: out there because it's just it's something that I feel
Speaker 1: like like we're hammering on it with about like getting
Speaker 1: guts out and hanging big game, this, that and the other,
Speaker 1: and it's just not not nearly discussed as much with
Speaker 1: I got a few based I got a few basic
Speaker 1: thoughts on it, but again, because it's wild game, I
Speaker 1: can't like come and tell you absolutely. Uh. I think
Speaker 1: they're not nearly as vulnerable to spoilage as our mammals.
Speaker 1: Large mammals, large mammals, they're so big and there's so
Speaker 1: much heat in there, and they got that gut, right
Speaker 1: that is depending on you know, what it was up to.
Speaker 1: They got that gut that's just full of gallons of
Speaker 1: stuff that's like ruminating in their gut and producing gas. Right,
Speaker 1: it's just different. I think they're not nearly as vulnerable
Speaker 1: to spoilage. And I think there's something about the chest
Speaker 1: cavity on a bird that's sort of you can have
Speaker 1: one thing going on inside the gut cavity and it's
Speaker 1: not it's readily permeating it's surroundings because of the breastbone,
Speaker 1: and that you're not really eating the meat out of
Speaker 1: the inside of the back. So if you leave a
Speaker 1: big game animal un gutted for too long, you wind
Speaker 1: up losing all the organ meat, the inside tenderloins spoiled
Speaker 1: very quickly. The you have spoilage, it starts at the
Speaker 1: ball joints in the rear legs and seems to spread
Speaker 1: very quickly. I just don't see it like moving around
Speaker 1: like a rot doesn't move around a bird in this
Speaker 1: sort of like cancerous way that rot moves around a
Speaker 1: big animal. But if you like to eat the gizzards
Speaker 1: in the liver and the hearts, which are all worth
Speaker 1: a try, I think that you need to get them
Speaker 1: out of there in a hurry. And also there's a
Speaker 1: thing to do with just like how pleasant the cleaning processes,
Speaker 1: and with squirrels, rabbits, ducks, geese, pheasants, after a few
Speaker 1: hours of wandering around in your game bag on a
Speaker 1: warm day, it just becomes like gutting them and cleaning
Speaker 1: them becomes not as fun because the smell is so
Speaker 1: offensive and horrible, and it just leaves you with a
Speaker 1: like a negative feeling about it. And I think if
Speaker 1: you could take uh duck or goose, pheasant, whatever, and
Speaker 1: it happen when you get some snow on the ground
Speaker 1: right and you quickly gut it out, clean everything out,
Speaker 1: packs some snow in there, wipe it all out, clean
Speaker 1: your heart, liver, gizzard, shove them back in there. It
Speaker 1: just is clean and nice and beautiful. And it's not
Speaker 1: like that, just the nastiness of gutten a bird that
Speaker 1: you should have got it a long time ago. But
Speaker 1: for what I would do, like the best duck that
Speaker 1: I've dealt with, then I'm gonna be done talk about
Speaker 1: you guys, talk about the best duck I've dealt with
Speaker 1: has been like take a duck, got it, clean it up.
Speaker 1: I put into brown paper grocery sack. I roll that
Speaker 1: brown paper grocery sack up, and I stacked those sons
Speaker 1: of bitches in my fridge like firewood, and I don't
Speaker 1: mess with him for three or four days. M got
Speaker 1: it gutted, wrapped in a newsprint or grocery sacks, and
Speaker 1: a little bit of that wrapping, it's just like it
Speaker 1: keeps it from drying out because you got that gutting incision,
Speaker 1: so everything starts to drive from there, and also some
Speaker 1: people that don't like it, and there's like parasites and
Speaker 1: the feathers that get all over ship, and so your
Speaker 1: wife opens it up. It's what in the world. But
Speaker 1: if you just like rolled up in newsprint, rolled up
Speaker 1: in a brown paper bag, put it in there for
Speaker 1: three or four days, and you get it out and
Speaker 1: you get like a duck, and it winds up being
Speaker 1: that you could almost pick your scrape and that breast
Speaker 1: meat away with your thumb. That ship is good. That's
Speaker 1: all I got to say about it. Didn't in uh
Speaker 1: in in uh generations passed and help me out. If
Speaker 1: you guys know this story hanging, Yeah, wouldn't they hang
Speaker 1: it by the neck? And when when it fell to
Speaker 1: the ground and you still had the head up in
Speaker 1: the string or the news that's like a scopier stuff. Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I used to hanging a bunch of my birds in
Speaker 1: North Dakota. It is always we did it in a
Speaker 1: garage and it really sorry quick question interruption, gutted or
Speaker 1: not gooded? I did both? Okay, this is interest thing
Speaker 1: I want to hear. I honestly can't remember if I
Speaker 1: thought there was a huge difference between the two gut
Speaker 1: it and not gut in. But I'd say most of
Speaker 1: them I did. Yeah, I don't think the ones that
Speaker 1: we kept um internals in we didn't need those, so yeah,
Speaker 1: so like the ones that we did gout, we would
Speaker 1: keep that sort of stuff. But yeah, we um A
Speaker 1: lot of times we come home from a hunt. Depending
Speaker 1: on the temperature, our garage could sort of stay insulated
Speaker 1: and it was the right time of the year if
Speaker 1: it didn't get too cold below freezing, we would just
Speaker 1: hang up up in the garage would have, um, well
Speaker 1: we hang our deer on. We'd just get the straps.
Speaker 1: I have all of them hanging up there, and it
Speaker 1: was nice um because I would only come home from
Speaker 1: work clean like two birds a night, the next night
Speaker 1: clean another two birds. And I would always write on
Speaker 1: the package how many days they were aged. And I
Speaker 1: actually have a lot my easier that I need to
Speaker 1: take each day out that I am aged it for
Speaker 1: to tell the difference. We did it with a lot
Speaker 1: of Canada geese um and some snows. But I've always
Speaker 1: found that snows are always tender no matter what, especially
Speaker 1: in the Ross's geese and UM I I couldn't age.
Speaker 1: The problem is I couldn't tell if aging it really
Speaker 1: tenderized the meat, or if that goose was just a
Speaker 1: much younger goose versus an older goose. So it's like
Speaker 1: you just keep getting these variabilities that you're just like,
Speaker 1: how do you create the same standardization to test all
Speaker 1: these things? It's it's really hard. And then the weather
Speaker 1: changes and I'm like, I can't hang these I got
Speaker 1: clean them all now or or whatever. But that's my
Speaker 1: brother who's a statistician. He's in a college just but
Speaker 1: does a lot of statistical modeling and statistical analysis, and
Speaker 1: he like a pet peeve of his is people who
Speaker 1: look and they make assumptions about the constants and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it seems like the pheasants that you kill on a
Speaker 1: Monday tastes better than the ones you kill on a Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Because he's like, there's so many variables going on all
Speaker 1: the time, and people go like, the small mouth bass
Speaker 1: are only hitting shar troups. Because I tied a chartrouss
Speaker 1: on and caught a small mouth all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it was like okay. But the angle of the sun
Speaker 1: also changed the barametric pressure also changed. You're both moved,
Speaker 1: like it's really people hunting fishing. People always want to
Speaker 1: be like that's it. Yeah, yeah, one day. Yeah. People
Speaker 1: people want a hard answer me, and it's not easy
Speaker 1: thing to to answer because you're tired after a hunt.
Speaker 1: Like it's hard to like get a piece of paper
Speaker 1: out and say I have X amount of snow goose.
Speaker 1: This one is all white, this one has a lot
Speaker 1: of gray in it. I know that one's like and
Speaker 1: then market how many days It's like that's like serious
Speaker 1: research going on, and and you don't always And I
Speaker 1: was working a full time job of North Dakota, and
Speaker 1: so it was just like all those things at that
Speaker 1: point in time didn't really click that I should be
Speaker 1: like documenting because we we had so many birds that
Speaker 1: I really could have done a really nice study, but
Speaker 1: I just didn't think about that at the time. Do
Speaker 1: you ever hanging long enough that fell off? No? But
Speaker 1: I hung it a loong enough and my dog ate
Speaker 1: a whole goose, and then we were like, all right,
Speaker 1: that's enough, I'm gonna hang it. I'm gonna hang a
Speaker 1: doctor year. I was gonna say, I just I just
Speaker 1: make actually I have done that before. I have had
Speaker 1: the body fall off, but I think the neck had
Speaker 1: already been broken from the string, so I don't think
Speaker 1: it counts not a true and not a not a
Speaker 1: true lynching. Yeah, did you gotta keep the temperature really
Speaker 1: constant or in between? Maybe? I don't know if in
Speaker 1: medieval times they had the opportunity to do that, unless
Speaker 1: they had a root seller or something that was fifties
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. But I made a lot of
Speaker 1: notes here, so if I have the opportunity back on
Speaker 1: this podcast, I'm gonna have answers to a lot of
Speaker 1: these things because I'm gonna, Yeah, I'm a testam this
Speaker 1: winner foul meal, dear fat um. What the hell is
Speaker 1: shot gobble? That was in the beginning of our shot
Speaker 1: gobble was one of turkey, do you do you hunt much?
Speaker 1: Turkey's uh man? A shot gobble is when a turkey
Speaker 1: gobbles to a sudden noise that isn't another turkey. So,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, when they're amped up in the spring
Speaker 1: and their gobbling a lot um, they get so keyed up.
Speaker 1: As Little Primo says, it's just them announcing to the
Speaker 1: world that is their time of year. They get so
Speaker 1: keyed up that just any kind of sudden, alarming noise.
Speaker 1: They'll gobble to it. Thunder the same way, though, gobble
Speaker 1: to a gobble like like really you think like like
Speaker 1: a turkey. One turkey gobbles. He's like, no, turkeys like,
Speaker 1: you're not the man. I'm the man, right, But they
Speaker 1: get like we're just anything going on. So dogs, barking, thunder,
Speaker 1: and we have found a running list of things that
Speaker 1: people have heard turkeys respond to, like sonic booms, um
Speaker 1: seth throwing a rock at the stop sign, car doors,
Speaker 1: slamming car horns, going off, dogs, barking, crows calling uh
Speaker 1: blue Jay's, geese honking, geese honking, a redtail hog on.
Speaker 1: So shot shock, Oh, it's a shock gobble. It shocks him.
Speaker 1: I thought it was with a t shot And I
Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, like but they do shot gobble
Speaker 1: the shots they shot gobble the shotguns. Damn sure. Well
Speaker 1: see question answered? Um, can I add one thing? I
Speaker 1: don't know how close you are here, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, man, So I decided I'm gonna end on
Speaker 1: something different. Okay, but you go ahead. Um Oh, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to add a a a thought onto the
Speaker 1: gray rabbit story. For um, is this some redemption, some
Speaker 1: sort of saving. Yeah, well I think we have to
Speaker 1: have takeaways. This can't just be shooting ship and um.
Speaker 1: And so if I was to offer anything that I
Speaker 1: believe to be truth, and when it comes to cooking
Speaker 1: wild game or not, this is just broadline. Cooking is
Speaker 1: um is methodology super key, you know. And just as
Speaker 1: as we spend so much time focused on the gear,
Speaker 1: the technique, how much how many hours we spent on
Speaker 1: Google Maps and everything else, pouring over where we're gonna
Speaker 1: go and what we're gonna go do, and um, if
Speaker 1: you enjoy a good meal, that chef in that restaurant
Speaker 1: and the entire team has spent equivalent amount of time
Speaker 1: researching how to make your meal great. Right, So they're
Speaker 1: doing the exact same thing you're doing in preparation for hunting,
Speaker 1: in preparation of a meal. And so though it may
Speaker 1: sound daunting, you don't need to be a chef. To
Speaker 1: be a good cook is to focus on methodology, because methodology.
Speaker 1: You see a bumpy two track road, you know, four
Speaker 1: we'll drive on. You see more than a twelve in
Speaker 1: twelve inches of snow, you know, maybe it's drifted it's
Speaker 1: twenty just now you know chains on, right, those are
Speaker 1: the things we've learned so with methodology, and maybe we
Speaker 1: can get here on a later podcast where we can
Speaker 1: write about it. Is methodology is your snow chains in
Speaker 1: four wheel drive and you know rain jacket, and it
Speaker 1: is your tool. To cookery is knowing good methodology. So
Speaker 1: you get a super tough, tough animal with braising techniques,
Speaker 1: with proper methodology smoking, you're gonna break that thing down
Speaker 1: and it will be palatable. So to the gray rabbit.
Speaker 1: One thing that is less methodology, but it is still
Speaker 1: a skill. And Danielle said in the very beginning, which
Speaker 1: is we eat with our eyes right, And so one
Speaker 1: of the easiest put lipstick on your food. And what
Speaker 1: I mean by that is put your makeup on like
Speaker 1: garnishing a dish is one of the most underrated, easy
Speaker 1: to do things that changes the experience for anybody. So
Speaker 1: your gray rabbit and and you know you have your
Speaker 1: you know, hopeful sweetheart or whomever coming over to eat,
Speaker 1: and you're like, man, this is not looking you know
Speaker 1: how I want it? Um Fresh herbs, fresh chopped herbs
Speaker 1: not only add great flavor to it, but um, we
Speaker 1: are and visually it's like makeup. It's mascara for your food.
Speaker 1: It's like we when you see chopped parsley, you're chopped
Speaker 1: herbs on food. It's like, oh, this was like this
Speaker 1: was done by someone that knows what's up, you know,
Speaker 1: And so I would just add that in and that
Speaker 1: um is that methodology is going to become really key
Speaker 1: for folks that want to get into game cookery and
Speaker 1: then garnishing just um, a little bit of fresh herbs
Speaker 1: on there, or you know, crumbled dry bacon, or you know,
Speaker 1: just adding a little extra something gives it a mask,
Speaker 1: gives it a top coat. You know. Yeah, I'll agree
Speaker 1: with you on that. I think these methods are the foundation.
Speaker 1: And once you figure out those things, then everything everything clicks.
Speaker 1: You can cook anything because it's the same process over
Speaker 1: and over, over and over again. Ridge Pounder, do you
Speaker 1: think that would you rather we call you the Great Rabbit? No? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: thank you, gr I mean instead of RP. It's not bad.
Speaker 1: Just don't really know the story, you know what, I'll
Speaker 1: embrace the story. There's a people out there that have
Speaker 1: probably been in that same predicament learning experience. Oh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I'm I remember in cooking school and I was eighteen.
Speaker 1: I I I served a pasta dish with a sauce
Speaker 1: called arabiata. It's like a spicy tomato sauce. You know
Speaker 1: in restaurants you'll see penabiata a lot, and um, so
Speaker 1: I was making. She just was like, we've been dating
Speaker 1: for a month, and I was made. I was in
Speaker 1: culinary school as eighteen years old, and I'm like trying
Speaker 1: to pull out all these tricks. But I made a
Speaker 1: penny rbiata and she found a goddamn nipple in her
Speaker 1: human nipple. No, no, but a nipple nonetheless, And there
Speaker 1: I am, you know, And yet when you you know,
Speaker 1: that was like, oh, well, that's because we just learned
Speaker 1: how to cure bacon in charcutie class. And I had
Speaker 1: a slab of bacon like billy belly, and we hadn't
Speaker 1: trimmed the skin off. You garnished it with nipples. I
Speaker 1: cut the slab and rendered it to make the sauce.
Speaker 1: And yet there happened to be this whole nipple that
Speaker 1: made it. In nipple that got in there the rogue.
Speaker 1: That's that's good, that's a good, that's a name for
Speaker 1: a book. Right there, the road Nipple a culinary tale. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go, the road nipple. Uh, Danielle, can you
Speaker 1: real quick zapp everyone? I'm gonna let you take your pick.
Speaker 1: I want you to zap everyone with um Man, how
Speaker 1: come no one notified me that I'm not running the
Speaker 1: right angle? I'm my mic Can you zapp everyone real
Speaker 1: quick with either this is chef's choice, with either the
Speaker 1: Heart Rap Spy or the Roadhouse snow Goose steakhouse dish. Oh,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the snow goose set the stage.
Speaker 1: Everybody ship talks snow geese all the time. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: very very common conversation that takes place is, hey, would
Speaker 1: you do this weekend? We got into some snow geese.
Speaker 1: I got this great recipe, let me tell you, And
Speaker 1: they go on and on and on and on, and
Speaker 1: then they tell you to eat the rocks, throw the
Speaker 1: throw the meat away, and then I chuckles, use that joke.
Speaker 1: It's like and then I listened to the whole story
Speaker 1: every time like it's the first time I've heard it,
Speaker 1: and laugh and can yourry inside? I laugh because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe he's telling me. Well, people do that
Speaker 1: with me. I try to meet him with the stone coldest,
Speaker 1: most indifferent face they've ever seen. Really, I can't. I
Speaker 1: can't do that. I'm like, yeah, that's not quite right.
Speaker 1: The viewers can't see the face I just tried to make.
Speaker 1: But no, I don't you look confused? And that one
Speaker 1: I'm not good. I'm not good at that kind of stuff. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so that conversation happens a lot, and and I get
Speaker 1: so sick of it, and I get so it's almost
Speaker 1: like an offense to me in ways to to say
Speaker 1: how much I love eating snow goose, and they're like,
Speaker 1: let me tell you how bad it is. I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you calling me a bad cook? It could be.
Speaker 1: I mean, my husband's the only one who really eats
Speaker 1: my food, and he'll eat anything. But so, so to
Speaker 1: everybody out there who does not like snow goose or
Speaker 1: that you throw it away or whatever you do with it,
Speaker 1: let me let me change your mind a little bit.
Speaker 1: I call it the steakhouse goose. And this is something
Speaker 1: I do with my sou vied and I cook it
Speaker 1: for anybody who comes over for dinner. That's usually what
Speaker 1: I'm cooking is is a snow goose. So I'll take
Speaker 1: it out of the freezer, let it sit in the
Speaker 1: fridge for a couple of days or however long tim
Speaker 1: ready to cook, pad to dry, a little salt, little pepper.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll get crazy with garlic or thyme, and then
Speaker 1: a little bit of gee in there, which is clarified
Speaker 1: butter butter that the milk solids have been taken out.
Speaker 1: It gives it a higher smoke point, which you don't
Speaker 1: really need it for suvied I just I think gee
Speaker 1: has a better flavor because I think the difference between
Speaker 1: gee and clarified butter, I think they toast toasted differently.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's besides the point. So and then I
Speaker 1: put it in my vacuum sealer su vied it and
Speaker 1: I usually do it about one thirty, which is on
Speaker 1: the rare side of medium ram so that way, when
Speaker 1: all of the breast meat is finished comes out of
Speaker 1: the bag, they're all cooked the same t Yeah, So
Speaker 1: my roll of thumb is for every half inch thickness meat,
Speaker 1: you should be souve eating at least for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: And that's if it's already sort of like defrosted. Pull
Speaker 1: it out to room temperature if it's frozen, like add
Speaker 1: an hour or more to that. Um so every half inch.
Speaker 1: And then the funny thing about geese when you cook them,
Speaker 1: they like to sort of condensed and shrink up and
Speaker 1: they get thicker. So I always add at least another
Speaker 1: thirty minutes to that. So if that geese is only
Speaker 1: an inch thick, I'm still going to suviet it for
Speaker 1: about an hour and a half. Maybe as you cook
Speaker 1: it it's gonna become an inch and a half. It's
Speaker 1: about three quarter inch thick, half inch three quarter inch
Speaker 1: for a snow and so I take it out, pad
Speaker 1: it dry, either steared in a cast iron or on
Speaker 1: the grill, because everybody wants to stick cooked a little
Speaker 1: bit differently. So I always started out like the rare
Speaker 1: side of medium. Weare is sort of the baseline because
Speaker 1: that's what I like to eat on. Somebody else wants
Speaker 1: it longer than I just see it for a little
Speaker 1: bit longer, and that is hands down, everybody is obsessed
Speaker 1: with it. I love it. It's like my my steakhouse,
Speaker 1: goose good. That's it. Thanks pretty simple. It is really simple,
Speaker 1: skin on, skin off, just the breast meat, we're talking
Speaker 1: about here. Yeah, this is just the breast meat, no
Speaker 1: no skin. Have you ever rendered out all your goose fat?
Speaker 1: I've tried, We I saved. I actually think I still
Speaker 1: have some. I think I frozen. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's it's probably a terrible idea. But sometimes if I
Speaker 1: get like only two geese and their thigh meats usually
Speaker 1: like in that pocket between the thigh and the bottom
Speaker 1: of the breast. But we'll always have like a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of fat in there. And so if
Speaker 1: I'm just cooking dinner that night, I'll just throw it
Speaker 1: in the pan and let it sort of melt um
Speaker 1: to brown the food that I'm cooking, and then the
Speaker 1: fat melts out and you still left with some kind
Speaker 1: of collagenny is tissue. I'll throw that out in the
Speaker 1: brown the meat in there. Yeah, you can freeze an
Speaker 1: and render it. You can like when when you you know,
Speaker 1: when you got a goose, you reach into that gutt
Speaker 1: incisions those big fat globs like right in the body. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can freeze those. You can get a hunk of it.
Speaker 1: Y uh Yeah. Final thoughts, I'm gonna say how much
Speaker 1: we're talking about thought on me, and I was thinking
Speaker 1: about what I did a bunch of this summer because
Speaker 1: my house and kitchen were in disarray, and so once
Speaker 1: a remodel. Yeah, once we had the new deck up,
Speaker 1: which is like kind of a dark brown board in
Speaker 1: its south facing so it gets the sun. You thought
Speaker 1: you made out in the heat direct well in those
Speaker 1: pinch in those pinch moments, right, because you're like painting
Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh shit, it's six, you know,
Speaker 1: and the one kid's melting, melting, and you're like, I
Speaker 1: need some thought out meat fast. I don't have a sink,
Speaker 1: so you know, running underwaters out there's no there's nothing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was gonna say that that's one of
Speaker 1: the great things about like the vac sield like heavy duty.
Speaker 1: We use Western bags. They're heavy duty enough we're literally
Speaker 1: anna like run grab it out of the freezer and
Speaker 1: then like slide it out onto the deck and the
Speaker 1: sun and like thirty fits later, I run out there
Speaker 1: and I've got something to work with. Just hold the
Speaker 1: health department. Yeah, yeah, or Osha during our remodel, that's
Speaker 1: good as your conclude her nice work than finals concluders. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think on on my end. No, I
Speaker 1: I'm excited for I mean, we've archery seasons rapping this
Speaker 1: weekend here in Montana and um and that means rifle
Speaker 1: and then um bird seasons kind of upon us. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm just excited to be out eating a
Speaker 1: little bit more. Um, you know, foraging seasons coming to
Speaker 1: a forging for non animal based things is coming to
Speaker 1: a pretty quick halt here. It's gonna be hidden under
Speaker 1: some snow man. Yeah, it's gonzo. Yeah, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: out this weekend. And I was thinking about it was like, men,
Speaker 1: I think the only thing that will be out there
Speaker 1: worth picking if I see it as rose hips and
Speaker 1: that's about it. So yeah, um, we found like at
Speaker 1: the bottom of the scree slides and stuff, we found
Speaker 1: queen bleats melting out of you know that can survive
Speaker 1: this time of year. Yeah, snow frozen, right, you still
Speaker 1: find queen bleats? Yeah? That are fun. Wow, that's one
Speaker 1: of these that surprised. Like one of the latest things
Speaker 1: I've picked have been queen bleats. We've even picking frozen
Speaker 1: queen bleats. They're like they can though, I'll be fine,
Speaker 1: but they were great. Yeah, butter not. That's like the
Speaker 1: kind of the the last thing you find of the
Speaker 1: stuff that like dies, you know, And I do sorry,
Speaker 1: I do have a clothing real quick. Do you deal
Speaker 1: with rose hips? What do you like to do with them? Um?
Speaker 1: You know in the past, why we've worked with it
Speaker 1: once before. But um, I don't do a ton with
Speaker 1: them beyond like teas and whatnot. Um, but Chutney's jams there,
Speaker 1: they sweeten, there's a lot of there's a ton of
Speaker 1: vitamins seeing anti accidents in there. They're easy to pick
Speaker 1: and they're not hard to find everywhere. They live everywhere,
Speaker 1: so there's really no one who can't go find. I
Speaker 1: just don't like going home empty handed, so I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like I gotta come home with something. Oh sorry,
Speaker 1: we gotta bring up the spiny rose hip that we
Speaker 1: ran into in Washington. Spine less, spine less, all rose
Speaker 1: all rose hips, the wild rose, the fruit itself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You ever see a rose hip where the hip, like
Speaker 1: the rose hip, the fruit is spiny? No, did you
Speaker 1: guys come across that on your archery hunt hunting Southeast Washington. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we puzzled over it. Yeah, I mean, I know there's
Speaker 1: a lot of different varieties of rose hips out there
Speaker 1: spiny yeah, huh. Um, So freezing, we're talking about that
Speaker 1: a bunch of I have a thought on freezing that
Speaker 1: I can close with is that I do believe that um,
Speaker 1: freezing is one of the greatest inventions of the modern
Speaker 1: world when it comes to eating and sustainability for the
Speaker 1: human race. Is just being able to freeze things is amazing.
Speaker 1: And um, but I freeze. I try to be real
Speaker 1: conscious when I'm breaking down an animal. And I know
Speaker 1: a lot of folks it's it's good, It's it's pretty
Speaker 1: easy and and and um. It can be a super
Speaker 1: boon to timing when you need a quick meal is
Speaker 1: to have your steaks already cut into two per bag.
Speaker 1: It's you and the missag thought out. UM. I tend
Speaker 1: to almost always freeze the whole muscles when I can. UM.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like that protective skin on the tongue.
Speaker 1: We're talking about. Things happen. Your bags get punctured when
Speaker 1: the freezer. You know it's in the back and you
Speaker 1: uncover it in March and there's a little frost burn
Speaker 1: on it somewhere. And I feel like even to the
Speaker 1: point where I will freeze hole muscles with silver skin
Speaker 1: on the whole nine yards because I know that when
Speaker 1: when it thaws back out, if something's happened to it,
Speaker 1: I don't want to lose the good stuff inside. So
Speaker 1: I'll I'll trend it off the damn cook it in
Speaker 1: March or April or May or whenever it is. So
Speaker 1: that's just one thing I like to do. Is I
Speaker 1: like to freeze hold muscles when I can. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: do like freezing the loin. Yeah, there's always you kind
Speaker 1: of want to leave that silver skin on there. But
Speaker 1: then the thing that's in the back of my head
Speaker 1: is like, man, when I give it to somebody, then
Speaker 1: I gotta explain it to him and ship and then
Speaker 1: what if they don't remember to do it, They're gonna
Speaker 1: have a negative experience. I'm always weighing in my head.
Speaker 1: I'll sometimes put us if I'll sometimes make a piece
Speaker 1: really perfect where anyone in the world with thought out
Speaker 1: and be like, this is ready to cook. This looks beautiful,
Speaker 1: and I'll put a star on the package or two
Speaker 1: stars extreme cases, and then I kind of look and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, that's one that I could give to
Speaker 1: someone and there's gonna be no Yeah, puzzlement. They're gonna
Speaker 1: be They're gonna get it, and they're gonna get it right.
Speaker 1: I want a double started gift from that guy. Sounds nice.
Speaker 1: Chris Um not much of a concluder, but I would
Speaker 1: like if we could like engineer some sort of cook
Speaker 1: off between Eduardo and Danielle. Mostly because not even like
Speaker 1: the competition side of it, but I just want an
Speaker 1: excuse to eat really well, that's all it is. I
Speaker 1: just want to be like a judge just the contests.
Speaker 1: Who can give me the most food? Yeah, where you
Speaker 1: film it or whatever you know, but well I think, Well,
Speaker 1: one of my thoughts is if if I've never hunted
Speaker 1: snow geese, but I'd love to go on a snow
Speaker 1: goose hunt. And what I would like to do is,
Speaker 1: I'll take those legs if you're going to take the breasts,
Speaker 1: and you got your steak steakhouse recipe, and I'd love
Speaker 1: to cone fee those legs. The legs are so good
Speaker 1: because they have a lot of fat on him. We
Speaker 1: should all plan, we should all plan, we should all
Speaker 1: just go out for snow geese in spring. I was
Speaker 1: saying to Ben O'Brien yesterday. I was saying there needs
Speaker 1: to be a meat eater rendezvous, like a full blown
Speaker 1: pow wow where everybody descends to just do a full
Speaker 1: blown Where would you want hunting session? Eating for the
Speaker 1: spring hunt? You know, nowhere over in your neck old
Speaker 1: neck of the woods. Yeah, by the Missouri Are they
Speaker 1: there late? And as eat season? They have that. They
Speaker 1: have that spring season where you don't even need a plug.
Speaker 1: He's electronic. They take they take the gloves off man
Speaker 1: electronic calls no plug. Yeah, it's crazy. My husband built
Speaker 1: his own homemade electronic color. It didn't work. He didn't
Speaker 1: just want to buy a Fox Pro or whatever. You know.
Speaker 1: He does that a lot. He wants to do everything
Speaker 1: himself plus his heart. So it's like you end up
Speaker 1: like you could just spend the money and get it,
Speaker 1: but he loves doing things himself. But yeah, and he
Speaker 1: because he wanted it like white and all, like the
Speaker 1: whole like nine yards and like multiple speakers out throughout
Speaker 1: the thing. It system. Yeah, because whenever it's around sound
Speaker 1: goose call. Yeah, becaus like in the middle of the
Speaker 1: day when you're not doing anything, it's nice to have
Speaker 1: some music out there. Seth concluders. Um, I got a question.
Speaker 1: I conclude or um back to oregan meat, I've heard
Speaker 1: oregon or oregon um. I've heard multiple times people say
Speaker 1: that like freezing oregan meat is no good. Yeah, freezing
Speaker 1: livers is rough on livers. Freezing it doesn't matter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that was my question. I want to take the
Speaker 1: freeze a kidney. Freezing livers just changes the liver, like
Speaker 1: the same thing that when in the freezer doesn't come out.
Speaker 1: Got you. I think it's like it's it's like it's
Speaker 1: kind of like what happens to a fish for a way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you cook it that you want up, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of like to get like waded. No, no, the opposite
Speaker 1: of bushy. It's like you take it out and it's like,
Speaker 1: let's off a ship load of that's off a lot
Speaker 1: of water. You take the slice, you throw it the pan.
Speaker 1: It kind of deflates, it gets a little right. It's
Speaker 1: just it's almost like it's not so much you'd say
Speaker 1: like it's an absolute no no, because it is not
Speaker 1: an absolute no no, but it's definitely not. It's so
Speaker 1: you just eat it when you get it that big.
Speaker 1: My guess is is, uh, is liver um fall into
Speaker 1: the category of muscle heart does he So I might
Speaker 1: take my guests would be that it's just the the um.
Speaker 1: It's a more naturally tender that the that the makeup
Speaker 1: of that structure is delicate, right, And so when you're
Speaker 1: freezing it, you are rupturing through expansion the cellular walls
Speaker 1: of protein and that organ And so when you thought
Speaker 1: it's it's losing it's natural structure and web, it's a
Speaker 1: real letdown. Especially dishes. If you're making dishes like like
Speaker 1: like like liver pats a and and dips and things
Speaker 1: like that just isn't the same. So if you're messing
Speaker 1: with the liver, you want to mess with it like
Speaker 1: you kill a younger dear. Take the liver home, slicing
Speaker 1: core here in slices. Solk it. People. My mom used
Speaker 1: to take solk it and lemon like water with a
Speaker 1: lemon squeezed into it, or even like those juice bottles,
Speaker 1: little bottles lemon juice. Put lemon juice and water because
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of sidic and a little bit
Speaker 1: of it somehow seems to dissolve and pull out more blood.
Speaker 1: People use. People take liver home and soak it in
Speaker 1: salted water. People take it home and solk it and water.
Speaker 1: But it does. You'll pull out and the water becomes
Speaker 1: like a rose color like it's definitely dissolving and pulling
Speaker 1: out some of the blood and then cook it. Don't
Speaker 1: it's just the first thing you should eat. Freeze all
Speaker 1: the other stuff. That's my concluder. Daniel, you kind of
Speaker 1: got your concluder. Do you want another concluder? No? I
Speaker 1: think I'm good. All right, good job everyone. Um, next
Speaker 1: time we all get together, we need to spend a
Speaker 1: little bit of time talking about game Hearts. Until then,
Speaker 1: thank you,