1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: want you to know. This is part two of our 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: two part or possibly three, four or five part series 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: on the JFK assassination. Now and part one fellow conspiracy Realist. 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: We established Kennedy's background, We talked about some of his 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: notable winds, some of the controversies of his administration even 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: before the ass fascination, and we went along the official 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: timeline of the murder along with some of the issues 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: that people have with that story. So today, in part two, 17 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: we're getting to the juice. We're getting to the red meat. 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: We're diving deep, so strapped in here are the facts 19 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: we established this earlier. It's amazing when you think about it. 20 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: The public, both in the US and abroad, largely disagrees 21 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: with the government's official opinion on this assassination, to say 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: the very least, like even the most skeptical people, may 23 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: I think twice about a green with the war in commission, 24 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: Oh very much. So? Why because it's the government telling 25 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: us what the government did. No, I'm just shooking. It's 26 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: not what the government did. It's just their official findings. Right. 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: But they're all paid by us. Wait a second, well 28 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: and drug revenue. Hey yeah, but this is this is 29 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: weird because these conspiracies, you know, as we said, they 30 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: can seem widely varied, but they're all feeding from that 31 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: same faucet that you just described, Matt. The the very 32 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: American distrust of the government, which I would say is 33 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: a healthy distrust. Uh, And the continued secrecy, the continued 34 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: stolen walling, the various discrepancies that have come out in 35 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: the decades since the murder. There are different perspectives on 36 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: these discrepancies, but there's one thing that's stuck with me 37 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: now I wish got pointed out more often. And this 38 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: is a little bit of a stick in the mud 39 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: kind of thing, but it's important to note. First, of course, 40 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: this murder investigation gets a lot more scrutiny than an 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: everyday homicide, and that's logical, and it makes sense that 42 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: it would receive more scrutiny in the decades after, because sadly, 43 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: we have to remember there are so many homicide and 44 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: investigations in the US every year and in almost every 45 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: country every year, and they can all each have their 46 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: own discrepancies and accuracies, missing paperwork. These cases, when discovered, 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: they don't automatically send people into the land of conspiracy. 48 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: Bureaucracies are big, they're unwieldy, they can screw up. And 49 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: if you are, you know, just a regular person, then 50 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: your case, even if there is well, pardon my French, 51 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: some free of foot, your case is not going to 52 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: get as much attention as the as it would if 53 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: you were president or even a celebrity, you know what 54 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean. That's that's just the reality, and things can 55 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: get lost. Incompetence is uh, I don't want to say common, 56 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,839 Speaker 1: but incompetence happens, and in its own cold way, that's 57 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: kind of as frightening as the idea of a highly 58 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: organized conspiracy, right, like, what would you prefer? Would you 59 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: prefer a successful cover up or would you prefer a 60 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: bunch of people who were just so bad at their 61 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: job that they couldn't figure out what happened to the 62 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: president apples to oranges. Now I'm getting that's true. It's 63 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: a very important calculu. I think I would prefer the 64 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: the laser focused cover up to utter incompetence. But that 65 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: would wouldn't you argue that maybe we sort of get 66 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: kind of a mixed bag of both. Sometimes I just 67 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: had an image and you guys tell me what you 68 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: think about this. It feels like the government is mom 69 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: and dad, where all the kids were in the back 70 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: of the van. We're going on a road trip. It 71 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: just our entire lives. It's a it's a giant road 72 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: trip with the government driving. It's mom and dad were 73 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: in the back and we hit something in the car. 74 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: It's night. We don't know what it was. We have 75 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: no idea. Mom and Dad get out of the car 76 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: and confer with each other while we're all in the 77 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: in the dark, still in the van in the back, 78 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: and they have to come up with like the story 79 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: of what happened, uh when in reality, we hit a 80 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: dog it ran across the street, but we don't want 81 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: to tell the kids that we hit a dog, because 82 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: that would be terrible, So we come up with the 83 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: story that we tell the kids. Is that crazy? What 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: do you think? No, I mean, everybody builds their own mythologies, 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about a family or a nation, or 86 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: a community, or a church or a company or however 87 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: people whatever people call their thing that they get together 88 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: to hang out and well, I guess what I mean 89 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: is they're the ones in charge, so they have to 90 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: come up with, like the official story of this is 91 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: what's happened? Everything's okay. Basically, I think in a lot 92 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: of cases that we've looked into. Maybe I'm in a 93 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: bit of a bubble here because I've spend so much 94 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: time stuck in this world, But I think in a 95 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: lot of cases, what happens is somebody screws up due 96 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: to incompetence right or to due to factors beyond their control, 97 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: act of God, etcetera, etcetera, And the actual conspiracy is 98 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: an exercise and covering up that incompetence. Like, it is possible. 99 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: We're not going to say is what happened, but it 100 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: is possible that someone in the Secret Service accidentally, you know, 101 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: panicked invest of intentions. Like we mentioned in part one, 102 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: they're trying to draw their firearm and accidentally shoot the president, 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: and that's like not something you would want to publicize. 104 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: So that accident or that incompetence, rather than a conspiracy, 105 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: becomes the genesis of a conspiracy for the government to 106 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: protect itself or to protect its own image. Um. But 107 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,559 Speaker 1: again there's that while that is a very popular theory, 108 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: especially in recent recent years, that hasn't been proven conclusively. 109 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: But we don't know it's proven or disproven conclusively because 110 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: we can't read it. It's like one of those ndia' 111 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: s that doesn't allow other people to read the n 112 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: d A. What's in there, we don't know. It's like 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: the National Inventions Grissy Act and the gag order they 114 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: pull where you can't talk about what happened. We don't know. 115 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: We don't know how many inventions have been pulled by 116 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam. And we don't know what happened with jfk 117 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: or at least what the CIA found, because they're not 118 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: going to tell you until they get more black markers. 119 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: So at the time of his demise, John F. Kennedy 120 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: was one of the world's most important human beings. One 121 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: of the most recognizable names and faces um in in 122 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: the entire world, the entire planet um. Maybe even the 123 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: most important you know of of everyone, given his influence 124 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: over a global superpower like the United States during an 125 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous, divisive, and heady time as the Cold War. 126 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: So in short, Kennedy definitely had some enemies, both foreign 127 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: and domestic. UM. And pretty much any president is going 128 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: to you know, rub some people the wrong way or 129 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: be seen as an adversary, which is why you'll find 130 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: claims implicating everyone from the CIA to the KGB to 131 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: like we discussed in the last episode, the Mafia, to 132 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: Fidel Castro, to even the Secret Service, the organization that's 133 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: um intended to protect the president, and also Kennedy's own 134 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: vice president, Mr Lyndon B. Johnson. UM. So, just how 135 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: many conspirators are we talking here? Oh? Yeah, shout out 136 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: to Vincent BOOGLIOSI. Uh did some excellent work on the 137 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: Manson case. He's a former l A district attorney. I 138 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: do recommend. He's also a great writer. I recommend reading 139 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: his stuff. He had this statistic that really stuck out 140 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: to me. He said in his estimation as of twenty thirteen. 141 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: It was a while ago that forty two groups, forty 142 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: two different groups, eighty two different assassins, and two hundred 143 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: and fourteen different you know, just people had been had 144 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: been accused of being involved in the assassination in one 145 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: way or another. That's a lot of people. That's many groups. 146 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: That would be a testament to cooperation if that were 147 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: the case. Well, is that is that like all working 148 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: together for the assassination or is that like one assassination? 149 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: Theory was was like two groups seven people like I 150 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: just don't Yeah, it's it's the latter, not the former. Okay, okay, 151 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: It's not like a big Avengers endgame team up, but 152 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: just a bunch of people saying this was the plot 153 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: of the movie in different movies. But as we've seen, 154 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: they all kind of coalesced and depart and converge at 155 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: these different moments. So our question today is do any 156 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: of these claims actually hold up? And on the other 157 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: side of the coin, do we know of any that 158 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: can be entirely dismissed? The answers get murky pretty quickly. 159 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy, getting right into it. Uh, 160 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, most of these ideas they're either unprovable or 161 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: they suffer from glaring plot holes if we're going to 162 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: keep the screenwriting analogy going. But a lot of people 163 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: believe some version or another, or believe at the very 164 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: least some part of one of these stories. Again, even 165 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: if in all the rest of their conversations, they are 166 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: the most skeptical person post James Randy on the planet. 167 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: And that's because they're they're strange, strange things about this story, 168 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: both leading up to November nine and in the wake 169 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: of the assassination. You could call them coincidences, you could 170 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: call them just complications, where you could call them discrepancies, 171 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: or like many people, like more than half of America, 172 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: you could call them indications of a conspiracy. And we 173 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: why do we know this? Why can't we say this 174 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: with such certitude? Because people in tracking the public opinion 175 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: about the conspiracies since November twenty nine, like continually, Gallup 176 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: has been tracking this. Oh yeah, and they keep trying. 177 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: You can check it out right now. They update it. 178 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact last time they updated have been, 179 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: but it was like for the fifty year anniversary. And 180 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: again there's there's it's just they keep tracking it, and 181 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: it's around fifty, right, I think it was fifty two percent, 182 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: and then we talked about sixty one maybe percent in 183 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: our last episode. It's it's around it's a little over 184 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: half of Americans right now believe that something weird went 185 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: down with JFK's assassination. So I think it would be 186 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: smart if we use this episode to really let's break 187 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: down some of the series. Let's look at the suspects. 188 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: I've I've heard a lot about Lyndon B. Johnson, and 189 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: he's probably one of the major suspects since simply because 190 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: he potentially had something to gain directly if JFK was 191 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: out of the picture, right, that would that would be 192 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: the idea. I mean, it's it's a brutal concept though, 193 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: to think that your only way toward promotion is to 194 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: organize the death of your boss. That's I mean, corporate 195 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: America can be ruthless, but I don't know how often 196 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: it gets to that level. But maybe we all saw 197 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: a House of cards. We know that people do anything 198 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: to to get to the top. Star Jenny from Forrest 199 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: Gump and and she's it was always hurt right the 200 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: whole time. There was never an I don't think history 201 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: is important. In the truth is important. Kevin Spacey had 202 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: taken time off from doing his regular creepy stuff to 203 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: to act in that show. That's that's probably unfortunately the 204 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: best way to phrase it. Oh man, Yeah, I did 205 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: really like parts of that show. Well, you're right, you're right. 206 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: What will people not do for power? And though this number, 207 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: this number of people who believe in some ass sspect 208 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: of the theory, uh that it's waxed and waned over 209 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: the years, you'd be interested to know that the number 210 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: of people who believe Oswald acted entirely on his own 211 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: is surprisingly low. Like for a while, was hovering around 212 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: thirty in a poll um. More recent polls from Gallop 213 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: in five thirty eight have indicated that, like we said, 214 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: the majority of a narrow majority, narrow majority of people 215 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: in this country are convinced there was a conspiracy of 216 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: foot So let's dig into the suspects. Let's start with 217 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: one of the inside job theories. Let's start with a 218 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: man that was so proud of his junk that he 219 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: gave it a name and showed it to his co workers. 220 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,239 Speaker 1: That's right, folks, none other than Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson. 221 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: We have some people who are convinced they've solved this one. 222 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: By the way, so the or of the Lennon B. 223 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: Johnson conspiracy is, how would we describe it? This guy 224 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: wants to be president so bad that he kills his boss. 225 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: Is that it? That's like the gist, right, I mean, 226 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of theory that almost seems 227 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: like it's plausible, right when you hear that, or maybe 228 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: even imagine it if you if this is a murder 229 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: investigation on a TV show that we watch every week 230 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: as Americans and or wherever you live. I'm sure they're 231 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: true crime shows wherever you are, we'd look at somebody 232 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: who has motive, and I mean, being next in line 233 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: for the presidency could be clear motive. Yeah, yeah, that's true. 234 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: Because there's not going to be an election held for 235 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: a time. You're just automatically going to be the acting president. Um, 236 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: all right, So that's a powerful motive. Even if we 237 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: take the personalities out of the equation, the core of 238 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: this conspiracy seems to hinge on the allegations of one person. 239 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: It's a person named Madeleine Brown. Uh, no relation, I presume, right, No, 240 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,479 Speaker 1: I don't think so no, I don't aware of Okay, so, uh, 241 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: no judgment if that's the case. But Madaline stated that 242 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: she had an affair with Lyndon Johnson, who was a 243 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: known philanderer, and that before the murder. The night before 244 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: the assassination, lb J was at a party and he 245 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: was there with Richard Nixon. He was there with the 246 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: FBI director j Edgar Hoover, and she said that l 247 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: b J kind of after a conversation this party, lb 248 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: J came to Madeline, came to her and said in 249 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: her ear, whispering, after tomorrow, these Kennedy's will never embarrass 250 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: me again. That's no threat, that's a promise. So that's like, 251 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: that's what she said. And then you would never say 252 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: that that's what that's her idea of the account. But uh, 253 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: there's this guy in uh in the world of independent 254 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: research whose work is pretty Solid's a guy named David Perry, 255 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: and he's really skeptical. Just so you know where he's 256 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: coming from, folks. He believes he's debunked this and he 257 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: says that his research has proven beyond the shadow of 258 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: a doubt that lb J could not have been at 259 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: that party that night. Instead he echoes the belief that 260 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier in part one, which is that 261 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people in Texas didn't particularly care for Johnson. 262 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: So if you don't particularly care for someone, they make 263 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: an easy target for you know, gossip and and things 264 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: like that. So he was just kind of like, um, 265 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, like people were very very anti one political figure, 266 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: celebrity or another. Would it's easy for them to agree 267 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: when they hear rumors that this person has done something unethical, illegal, 268 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: or murderous, you know, like if you already don't like 269 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: if someone already didn't like Ronald Reagan or Hillary Clinton 270 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,239 Speaker 1: and they saw something that said, hey, these folks are 271 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: out here, I don't know, committing stamp fraud, kicking babies. 272 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: There they're running up to strangers and slapping their feet, 273 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: and you already didn't like him, you would be like, yeah, 274 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: I always thought I always thought Reagan looked like a 275 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: foot slapper, you know what I mean? Look at you? 276 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: Is something in the eyes you could tell like a 277 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: doll's eyes. Definitely like a Slapton doll, except when they 278 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: see toes they light up. So so this this seems 279 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: like at least from this perspective, it seems like sure Johnson, 280 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: as any politician at that level would be is is 281 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: perhaps madly ambitious, but he was also not an intelligent person, 282 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: and he had to be aware of the potential chaos 283 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: that would ensue globally, not just domestically, but globally if 284 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: a president was assassinated. But he also knows he could 285 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: take the reins and everything would be all right. Yeah, 286 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: that's true. He's he's one of those people. He's like, oh, 287 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: it'll be better if I do it. I mean, which 288 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people are, even though a 289 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: lot of people are wrong in that estimation. At this point, 290 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: we're giving just a taste. That's one of the big, 291 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: big suspects, but a lot of folks feel that for 292 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: various reasons, that has been debunked. We're not saying it's 293 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: been totally debunked, yet, we're saying that the the majority 294 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: of people believe that to be the case. The majority 295 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: of people who have investigated this don't seem to think 296 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: it was Johnson. So let's pause for a word from 297 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: our sponsors, and we'll return with more suspects. If we 298 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: can't find somebody in the executive branch about corporate America. Oh, 299 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: tell me more, I mean after the break. Okay, so 300 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: before the break we alluded to going into the corporate 301 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: world now with this particular conspiracy rabbit hole. Um, so 302 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: what are we talking about? Business interests like big oil 303 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: or the military industrial complex for example, the idea being 304 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: specifically with the military industrial complex. The idea here is 305 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: that the war or war in general is good for business, 306 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: which we have talked about anytimes on the show. We 307 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: have a whole episode about that, I believe, right then, Yeah, yeah, 308 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: we do. We also know the full Eisenhower quote, the 309 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: one that popularized the phrase military industrial complex. What he 310 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: was originally going to say was military industrial congressional complex. 311 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: Someone pulled his leash, So we pulled his leash before 312 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: he got to the public. So we know that first. 313 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: I mean, if we just unpacked this a little bit, 314 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: we know that the military industrial complex is real, and 315 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: it is tremendously powerful, and in fact, government agencies have 316 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: done the bidding of corporate America right there was there 317 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: was not really a compelling reason for the US to 318 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: invade Guatemala. That's the number one example. U. There aren't 319 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: always compelling reasons of democracy, driving US intervention in other 320 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: countries on pretty much recontinent except Antarctica, some version of 321 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: this has happened. So the the two forces intertwined, the 322 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: military power and the corporate power, they can do a 323 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: lot of heinous stuff and they have. You know, you 324 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: can see recent examples where oh, I'm trying to remember 325 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: which multinational just got accused of working with warlords to 326 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: keep whatever their product is, uh, extracting on time. Well, 327 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: I know there was a whole thing with chocolate again again, Yeah, 328 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: child Labor and all the major chocolate companies and palm oil. 329 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: That's another one. Rare earth minerals or metals excuse me, 330 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: they're they're all kinds uh. The idea there is that 331 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: it kind of ascribes a motive in that it makes 332 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: it sound as though oil cartels's appropriate way to describe 333 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: those operations. It makes it sound as the oil cartels 334 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: and people like Lockheed and their version of Halliburton and 335 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: what have you all said, Well, we've got to have war. 336 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: War is an economic necessity, so for us, for us, 337 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: well for everyone, for the greater good, har Rump for 338 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: Rump for Rump and this this Kennedy guys, just not 339 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: getting with the program. That's ridiculous. We thought he was 340 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: one of us, he was born into this class. How 341 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: Darry betray us? And it's true that JFK did talk 342 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: about coming to some resolution, but I could not find 343 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: I'd be interested if there was, but I could not 344 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: find any specific claim or timeline about pulling out from Vietnam, 345 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: which did, of course accelerate massively after Kennedy's assassination. But 346 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: then again, you get into speculative history, you know, like 347 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: how much of a difference would he have made if 348 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: he had been alive with the were the die already cast? 349 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, had the dominoes from the 350 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: French Indo China War already fallen in such a way 351 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: that the US was going to be there regardless? I mean, 352 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: would Gulf of Tonkins still have happened? That's the big question, right, Um, 353 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: Gulf of Tonkin did not happen. Huh huh, we can 354 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: say that, right. I know, I'm just playing. I'm just 355 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: playing a spoiler. No, it's not a spoiler. I just 356 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: got scared. I thought I heard something behind me. Uh 357 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: it was just her scully. Okay, So I want to 358 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: talk again about MLK because it's not as though John F. 359 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: Kennedy was going around being an anti war, anti Vietnam War. 360 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: But the possibility that maybe thing he wasn't pushing things 361 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: the way that certain powers wanted him to push the wings, 362 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: It just it makes me think about how Martin Luther 363 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: King towards the end nineteen sixty six, sixty seven, mostly 364 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: sixty seven and sixty eight, he's speaking out directly against 365 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: the war in Vietnam and he gets killed. Um thinking 366 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: about Robert Kennedy and what he was trying to do 367 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: just before he got killed. I don't know, man, I 368 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: think it's it's maybe the combination of those three assassinations 369 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: for some reason in my mind makes this theory like 370 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: there's business interests of some kind having to do with 371 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War and conflict profits in general. That's what 372 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: makes it feel real to me. I guess I feel it. 373 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: And then also, I mean, there's the idea that Martin 374 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: Luther King was assassinated due to his power to inspire 375 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: the nasses for social change, sure, yeah, which would include 376 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: everything from pulling out of of wars to you know, 377 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: having more equitable society in general, you know, from it 378 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: ain't always Umm, he was getting close to the S word, 379 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: the dirty, dirty S word, not socialism. Oh no, not 380 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: that one cross fingers from exactly. Uh. And then just 381 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: for the record, Uh, Robert F. Kennedy was shot by 382 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: Sir Hans Sir Han fatally on June. So there's a 383 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: very very short interval of time, which means it's not 384 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: implausible to ask, Uh, it's not implausible to ask if 385 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: these murders were related because he was a U. S. 386 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: Senator at the time of his death, also pretty close 387 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: to being president. Yeah. Also, I'm just gonna go ahead 388 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: and point out again it's weird when family members are 389 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: all like or functioning at the highest level there in 390 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: a meritocracy, people's kids shouldn't hold the same office as 391 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: their parents, Like the odds against them being actually qualified 392 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: for that are incredibly low, And it's kind of silly 393 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: that we pretend collectively it's not riddled with nepotism, And 394 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: isn't it just a bit of a coincidence that that 395 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: coincidence is already happening? And then both of them get 396 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: assassinated by lone gunmen, m one of whom maybe getting 397 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: out of jail for like good behavior or he's exhibited 398 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: human like traits for long enough that he he's been 399 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: allowed to go free. Wasn't he like the Manchurian candidate. 400 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: Kind of conspiracy wrapped up in that whole deal. Yeah, 401 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: that was the idea. He's maintained that he was not. 402 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: He's maintained that it really wasn't his decision. Um, And 403 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: he has a lot of supporters, you know, uh, sir Han, 404 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: that means uh he he also in two Sirhan Sirhan 405 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: told the parole board quote, I sincerely believe that if 406 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy were alive today, I believe he would not 407 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: countenance singling me out for this kind of treatment. I 408 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: think he would be among the first to say, however 409 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: horrible the deed I committed fourteen years ago, that it 410 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: should not be the cause for denying me equal treatment 411 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: under the laws of this country. The hutzpah there, you 412 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: know what I mean to say, Like, look, the guy 413 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: I shot would say that you dudes are being unfair. 414 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: She's if he were here right now, he would have 415 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: my back. He's got here, and we don't have to 416 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: get into why, you know, let's not get bogged down 417 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: in the details. I just want you guys to know 418 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: that he would agree with me in this situation. Yeah, 419 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: the family, many of the surviving Kennedy family members, of course, 420 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: don't agree with that. So there was something else we 421 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: talked about briefly in Part one that I'd love for 422 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: us to go back to, and it's the mob. It 423 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: sounds interesting. Over time, at least three different mafia families 424 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: have been accused of being involved mafia outfits in Chicago, Miami, 425 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: and interestingly enough in New Orleans. To date, right now, officially, 426 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: there hasn't been anything solid enough to support these claims. 427 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of a property, a transference of properties. You know, 428 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: you think, okay, the mafia, they do bad stuff. We 429 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: can generally agree it's bad to assassinate anybody, including president. 430 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: But it was a point brought up earlier independently, deciding 431 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: to assassinate a president just because even just because of ideology, Uh, 432 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: it feels out a character for the American mafia because 433 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, they are business enterprises, 434 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: which means they would need to have some sort of 435 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: clear benefit, whether that's cash, whether that's immunity, whether that's 436 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: getting a slice of some other future criminal empire. They 437 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: would almost certainly have to be hired by somebody, is 438 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: what we're saying. They wouldn't have come up with the 439 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: idea on their own. It's not like, um, it's not 440 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: like Marlon Brando is somewhere and you know and talking 441 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: to Leah Harvey Oswalden saying like this the d those 442 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: why in us give his rightfle you because uh this 443 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: Kennedy or something like that, you know what I mean? 444 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: Like it, But people in the world of law enforcement 445 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: and the world of the CIA and the FBI definitely 446 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: had back channel connections with the mob. They had informants, 447 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: some highly placed They also at times, I feel like 448 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: it's a dirty secret, but I think everybody kind of 449 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: acknowledges this. They also at times had made tacit agreements 450 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: to ignore one thing as part of a negotiation for 451 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: something larger, you know, And that's you can see um 452 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: smaller versions of that in true crime shows or in 453 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: fictional dramas like The Wire right where someone someone says like, 454 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: I am not going to bust you for this heroin, 455 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: I need to know about blah blah blah blah blah. 456 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: And we talked about that and spycraft as well, So 457 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: it feels like they could have been involved, but they 458 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: would have been hired hands, if that makes sense. It 459 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: feels like there could have been a political alliance in 460 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: some way, maybe with like a singular crime family, right 461 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: one organization, not just the mob up right. So if 462 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: you're thinking, I think we mentioned we mentioned Miami pretty 463 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: extensively when we were talking about the revolution in Cuba 464 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: and then the CIA's response and some of the training 465 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: that the CIA and other intelligence groups we're doing with 466 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: like the resistance basically and training people to go in 467 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: there during the Bay of Pigs and other tragedies that 468 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: occurred there. I don't know why they would want to 469 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: take out Kennedy though, And it's just nothing has been 470 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: fleshed out enough, at least to my satisfaction, to to 471 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: show a connection that would be strong enough to maybe 472 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: believe it. We do know that UH mob families tend 473 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: to be a little further right on the spectrum political 474 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: spectrum in some cases extremely and they've been active before 475 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: with UH secret government initiatives like propaganda to do for instance, 476 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: or was the other one operation Gladiol, you know, stay 477 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: behind armies, to stay behind right wing fascist armies. But 478 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm tended to to agree unless something else 479 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: comes out. It's there. There are several very interesting characters 480 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,479 Speaker 1: in that world of conspiracy, including Jack Ruby, right uh, 481 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: strip club owner he knew. He seemed to be very 482 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: well acquainted with some of the less savory elements of Dallas. 483 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: But that all feeds back to this one idea that 484 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: Oswald did not act alone. And this is where we 485 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: enter like the land of meta conspiracy. That's a single 486 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: thing most people seem to agree with. They think he 487 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: did not act alone. They don't know who formed the 488 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: rest of his ensemble cast, but they don't think it 489 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: was a one man show. That's the thing that more 490 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: than half of the u S seems to agree on 491 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: even today, that whatever happened, Oswald did not act alone. 492 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: He was not a one person play. And technically, if 493 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: you want to get very technical, that's true. He didn't 494 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: build the rifle. He wasn't out there gathering or from somewhere. 495 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: He didn't make gunpowder. Uh. He didn't just naturally pick 496 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: up a rifle and know how to shoot it. He 497 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: brought bought the rifle from somebody. He was trained by 498 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: the military. But This doesn't mean he was necessarily part 499 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: of a larger organized group, and it doesn't mean the 500 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: people who assisted him were necessarily aware of his end game. 501 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: It's sound like he was taking marksman training and someone said, 502 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, if you do well enough on this, we'll 503 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: give you a badge, and if you do even better, 504 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: you might just get to kill the president. Any who, 505 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,959 Speaker 1: moving on, I don't think that's how I don't think 506 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: that was advertised, you know. And he told when he 507 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: was entering into the Texas school book Depository, Uh, they 508 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: had this bag. I think he rode the bus there. 509 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: He told people it's just a bag of curtain rods. 510 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: And that's an answer that's so boring you're not really 511 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: going to follow up on it. Well, isn't it quaint 512 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: when you hear stories like this, you know, compared to 513 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: like post nine eleven America, where you can't go anywhere 514 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: with so much as a paper clip, you know, Um, 515 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: it just goes to show how kind of blissfully ignorant 516 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: we were to the threats that faced us, you know, 517 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: in the past. I think true, and things did change 518 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: irreparably after the assassination of Kennedy. Uh, but we do 519 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: know some stuff about Oswald, and it's stuff that's real. 520 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: It's on. Well, you got a plot twist for you 521 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: in the second folks, But let's let's set it up. 522 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: Let's usee into it. Oswald traveled a lot, and he 523 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: did support the Communist Revolution. He did support Cuba. He 524 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: visited the Cuban embassy in Mexico City. He also called 525 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: the Russian embassy while he was in Mexico. This all 526 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: went down just a few weeks before the murder. As 527 00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: of now, no one knows for sure what oz Well 528 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: talked about specifically when he visited the embassy. Um. We 529 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: know some of the outline of the conversation, but we 530 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: don't have the full details. And now we have to 531 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: do a little bit of a thought experiment. Okay, let's 532 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: say that you are the head of the U S 533 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: s R. You're the head of the government. You get 534 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: this idea that you can use your deep cover operative Oswald, 535 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: who is currently in the US and can travel back 536 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: and forth from US to Mexico, and get this idea 537 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: that you can order him to shoot JFK. You probably 538 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't do it just because it makes you, by far 539 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: the number one suspect. This guy has obvious ties to Cuba. 540 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: He's all about communism. You know, he would have made 541 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: Russia first to the post, and that kind of move 542 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: would count as an act of war just a very 543 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: short time after a nuclear armageddon almost occurred, because like, 544 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: doing that would mean risking retaliation. Neither government was particularly 545 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: keen on destroying the planet. But if you killed president 546 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: and changed the conversation, so it seems almost suicidal politically 547 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: for for Russia to do that. I mean, what do 548 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: you guys think, Like, what would you what do you 549 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: think about the possibility of Russia ordering an assassination of 550 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: Jfking seems very forward. It seems like they would be 551 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: better off waging a disinformation campaign like we've talked about, 552 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: rather than straight up arranging for an assassination of a 553 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: head of state with that much heft behind his his role, 554 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and that much public awareness, 555 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: that much potential for backlash. I mean, no, sir, it 556 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. There would be much more clever ways 557 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: of exerting influence than that. Maybe just wasn't around a 558 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: third story window. Well, I don't know, in a weird way, 559 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: if you're let's say a splinter group within FSB or 560 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: like whatever was at the time to KGB, Um, if 561 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: you're a splinter group within there that thinks, oh, the 562 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: only way for US to truly gain power over the 563 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: United States is to go to full war with them. 564 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: The way to do it would be to assassinate the president, right. Um, 565 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: even even if it's like not fully on the surface 566 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: that it was you or that it was USSR that 567 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: did it, but the intel you would know that the 568 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: intelligence agencies would know in some way. I don't know. 569 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: That to me, is is pretty compelling because it's not 570 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: I think the mutual assured destruction thing is on the 571 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: table there, and it would it would always be, but 572 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 1: you would maybe there's a calculation that the US wouldn't 573 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: resort immediately to nukes. That's a really good point because 574 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: that's like an internal power struggle mm hmm. And the 575 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,479 Speaker 1: question is never really the most plausible ideas of US 576 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: government involvement are pretty much the same thing. They're not 577 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: saying everybody was behind it, They're saying a faction working 578 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: within the system did it. I think that is actually 579 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: that's a very good point the more that I think 580 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: about it. So perhaps leadership wasn't on board, was terrified 581 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: of the idea, but extremist in the crowd. That kind 582 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 1: of folks would later become fans of people like Alexander 583 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: Dugan were one. We were all gas no brakes on 584 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: that one. It was time for war, you know the 585 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: way that um the way that some extreme religious groups 586 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: have publicly stated they hoped for war in the Middle 587 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: East because they believe it will hasten um the prophecies 588 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: that they have chosen to treat as fact. Yeah, but 589 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,919 Speaker 1: if we're talking government agencies FSB, KGB, there's there's one. 590 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: There's one agency. You know him, you love them, You've 591 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 1: heard a lot about him. They've done. In fact, we've 592 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: done a lot for our show, Paul, Can we get 593 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: an applause sound? Cue? The Central Intelligence Agency. That's right, folks, 594 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: the c I A uh, the Chad's in action, the 595 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: the uh clearly intelligent agency. Here's the thing. We're joking. 596 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: We're joking, but that's actually one of the most difficult 597 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: theories are alternative narratives to dismiss for several reasons. I mean, 598 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,800 Speaker 1: one of the first reasons is Kennedy in the c 599 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: I A Hey hated each other so bad. So like 600 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: think of the person you hate the most in the 601 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: world pales in comparison. It was, yeah, it was. It 602 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: was unsquashable beef. And the CIA, you know, had a 603 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: long history even by this point, in pursuing their own 604 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: interests and also pursuing the financial interest of private companies 605 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: who had ties, again typically nepotistic to the company itself. 606 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: I mean, for Pete's sake, the CIA informally calls itself 607 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: the company, you know what I mean. They're they don't 608 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: particularly care about separation of church and state, but they 609 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: would be opposed to separation of business and state. It 610 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to their mission statement, or that it 611 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to their practice, I should say. So 612 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: they would function at times actively avoiding oversight. They would 613 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: function as that faction you just subscribe. And there was 614 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: a lot of internal descent at this time. So the 615 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: basic gist the CIA had Kennedy killed because they thought 616 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: he was going to retaliate against them. Further, as punishment 617 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: for their frankly cartoonish attempts to kill Fidel Castro, they 618 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: thought he might purge the organization, they might disband it entirely. 619 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: So in corporate speak, they decided to get in front 620 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: of it and disband the man first. So how do 621 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: we even have the discussion of whether or not this 622 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: is plausible. Well, we start looking at a certain individual 623 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: that we've talked about on this show many times, and 624 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: Mr Alan Dulles, who there you go that it's been mentioned. 625 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: Oh and we're on this zoom So there's my My 626 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: video for some reason is delayed like crazy. So like 627 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: I say something and I can't even see what they're doing, 628 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: and then it just happens before I can even retaliate. Interesting, 629 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: you had you were had a significant disadvantage, My good 630 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: sir boy. But yeah, so Alan Dulls, the guy from 631 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: the Air Force base. He he was on the War 632 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: in Commission. And he also uh was the head of 633 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: the CIA at one point. Yes, yeah, he was the 634 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: longest serving Director of Central Intelligence or d c I, 635 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: and he was head of the CIA during the Cold War. 636 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: He oversaw what went down in Guatemala in fifty four. 637 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: In fifty three the year before that, he uh he 638 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: was running point on the Kudata in Iran. Uh. He 639 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: was he was big up in the locky YouTube program 640 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: The Spy Planes. Uh. He knew about Project mk Ultra 641 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: before most of us. Uh, he was down with the 642 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: Bay of Pigs. But he was not the director of 643 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: the CIA when he was on the Warren Commission. Um happened. 644 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 1: You know, interesting that you would bring that up, Matt, 645 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: And how well timed. He was not the head of 646 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: the CIA at the time at his time in the 647 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: Warran Commission because Kennedy had fired him, oh, due to 648 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: a number of a number of things. Um. But he 649 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: also like he had a lot of suction and as 650 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,800 Speaker 1: the Wire would call it, in the halls of power. 651 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: And he definitely played a role in the commission's official 652 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:53,280 Speaker 1: conclusion that Oswald, acting alone, had killed the president. Kennedy, 653 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: by the way, before he died, had also cut the 654 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: CIA's budget by twenty which is like everybody scrambling. They're like, 655 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: how are we going to sell enough coke to make 656 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: up for this? You know what I mean, It's a 657 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: question I asked myself every day. Yeah, you know, just 658 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: to cover costs. Mm hmm, yes, what kind of walking 659 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: around money? The correct Yeah. The our podcast meetings are 660 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: mainly us located at the metrics of how how much ether, 661 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 1: how many kuludes and how much weight and cocaine we 662 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: have to move to keep the show going. You mean, 663 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: I mean, okay, yes, yes, And so let's pause for 664 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: a moment here, Uh, just to check our doors and 665 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: our internet connections and make sure the windows are shut tight. Uh. 666 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: And when you come back, we're gonna tell you some 667 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: pretty interesting about the government's official conclusion when it comes 668 00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: to JFK. We're back. Here's the other thing. When we 669 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: said not everyone agrees with the War in Commission, we're 670 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: just being the public. We all have just been independent investigators, journalists, 671 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: et cetera. We mean that the US government is on 672 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: record disagreeing with itself. Hear that again. The US government 673 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: said Oswald acted alone, and then the US government said 674 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: it was a conspiracy. In nineteen seventy nine, the US 675 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 1: House Select Committee on Assassinations, or the h s c A. 676 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: You know, I love an acronym um and in our 677 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: last Actually Kennedy episode, I really go hard on the acronyms, 678 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,320 Speaker 1: and you guys indulge me beautifully. But the h s 679 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: c A concluded that Kennedy was likely assassinated as a 680 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: result of a conspiracy. Uh, that Oswald, in short, did 681 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: not act alone. Um. In addition to that, they found 682 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 1: that a second gunman had likely been present, though the 683 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: acoustic evidence they based it on, UH today is considered 684 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: somewhat spurious and it's been discredited. Yeah, right, because where 685 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,439 Speaker 1: the whole Grassy Knolls situation comes from after the second 686 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: shooter was supposedly positioned. And then now song of course, 687 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: and also what I'm named after. I don't know if 688 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: you know this about me, but I am literally named 689 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: after the Grassy Knoll. Yeah, it's still my favorite punt 690 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: I ever kicked in that Dan Harmon show. Uh. We 691 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: made it to the title guys. But but yeah, that's 692 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,840 Speaker 1: is that not Is that not weird? Even if you 693 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: consider yourself a skeptical person? Is that not a bit odd? 694 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,720 Speaker 1: That the war in Commission, which had arguably some conflicts 695 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: of interest, said Oswald by himself, that's it. You know 696 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: that that was their answering clue. It was Oswald in 697 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 1: the book depository with the rifle, that was it. And 698 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: in the same government comes back and says he somebody 699 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: else may have been involved because we heard some other 700 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: shots from probably a different place on that old recording 701 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,920 Speaker 1: that we had right, right, And whether or not that 702 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: recording is discredited. Uh, they they're finding that there was 703 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,320 Speaker 1: likely a conspiracy of what would remain the same, because 704 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: they're also implying or they're also saying it's possible. In fact, 705 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: they said it was probable that someone was supporting Oswald 706 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,319 Speaker 1: because if you look at what he was doing, like even, um, well, 707 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: who's that guy who killed Lincoln John John six super 708 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: tryanish even I mean, when when Booth was. I don't 709 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,480 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of people in the crowd 710 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 1: to remember this today, but when Booth was, when Booth 711 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: was in play, four people ended up being hanged in 712 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: association with the conspiracy. So even back then it wasn't 713 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: as simple as one person going up and shooting yet 714 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: as support staff. So now we now we turned to 715 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 1: New Orleans. I'm sure a couple of people heard us say, 716 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: what the New Orleans mob? What are they? Why are 717 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 1: they getting involved? You know in sixty six, three years 718 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: after the assassination d A at the time in New Orleans, 719 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,800 Speaker 1: Jim Garrison says, you know what, I figured out the answer? 720 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: A group of far right extremists worked with a faction 721 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 1: of people in the CIA to carry out this murder, 722 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: and he said, there's a Dallas businessman named Gary Shaw 723 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: who was in on it, an instrumental in getting the 724 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 1: boots on the ground. He was the head of something 725 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: called the International Trademark in New Orleans. Garrison took this seriously. 726 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: The year after he came out with those accusations in 727 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: X seven, he arrested Gary Shaw and eventually took him 728 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,359 Speaker 1: to trial. So in ninety seven, when Shaw is being 729 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: looked at by the d A Jim Garrison. Uh, this 730 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: was a story that was getting picked up all over 731 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: the place and European press found it. It was just 732 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: a few days after Shaw, I think, initially got arrested 733 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: by the authorities. Um, this is an Italian left wing paper. 734 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:31,439 Speaker 1: What's the name of it. Then it's like it there 735 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: we go. So as soon as the story starts coming out, 736 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 1: they're talking about how this dude Shaw has CIA connections 737 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 1: and it was through a board membership that he had 738 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: with a trade organization called Permaedex. Yes, yeah, Permandex. Permandex 739 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,480 Speaker 1: had a subsidiary at the time called Central Mandale Commerciale, 740 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: which the paper alleged was a CIA front. We'll call 741 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,760 Speaker 1: the seen C for short. Yeah, they said the CMC 742 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: is a front company. It's another you know, Freedom Airlines. 743 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,600 Speaker 1: According to this paper, the CMC was in existence entirely 744 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: to help the CIA fund illegal espionage activities in Italy, 745 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: and to Garrison, there was a nuance to the anti communist, 746 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:28,439 Speaker 1: anti Castro extremist and their cooperation with the CIA. They 747 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: wanted to cry havoc and loose the dogs of war 748 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,920 Speaker 1: in a controlled manner. They wanted to kill Kennedy as 749 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: a way of maintaining US USSR tensions hinging upon Cuba 750 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: and to prevent the US from withdrawing soldiers, influence, and 751 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,440 Speaker 1: potential war profits from Vietnam, because they wanted to bleed 752 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:59,680 Speaker 1: them strategically, no seriously, just in the way that they 753 00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: after an a stand conflict, the way uss ARE ultimately 754 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: met its downfall. They were trying to bleed the United 755 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 1: States monetarily in Vietnam. Holy crap. Well, also, I mean 756 00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: he might be onto something. Here's the thing, Matt, No, 757 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: uh yeah, you could ask if the if the Vietnam 758 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,879 Speaker 1: War would have still reached the pitch it did had 759 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 1: Kennedy survived. But one thing's for sure, there were a 760 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,279 Speaker 1: lot of genuine idealogues in the US government at the time, 761 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,320 Speaker 1: they the idea was that if they did not take action, 762 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,720 Speaker 1: even if that action is bloody, even if that action 763 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: is legal, then communism would sweep the world. Now, later 764 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 1: retrospect would unfortunately prove that a lot of people pretending 765 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,560 Speaker 1: to be ideologically motivated were financially motivated through a series 766 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,480 Speaker 1: of nesting not widely publicized financial relationships, you know, so 767 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,799 Speaker 1: they they were making money from war. And if you're 768 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: making money from something, or if it's having a positive 769 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,480 Speaker 1: impact in your life, then your skills at rationalization get 770 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,839 Speaker 1: pretty matrix level, you know what I mean? Dude, I'm sorry, 771 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 1: I got. I got my institutions confused. In my mind, 772 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:26,720 Speaker 1: I was thinking it was actually the other side playing whatever, 773 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: this faction within the CIA in order to keep the 774 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,479 Speaker 1: U S. Sorry, I got, I got my conspiracy theory 775 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,319 Speaker 1: way too deep there. No, But here's the issue, man, 776 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,960 Speaker 1: Like how distinct or those entities at certain levels of history, 777 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. We talked about that in 778 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,080 Speaker 1: the spycraft excuse me tradecraft episode where where we had 779 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,399 Speaker 1: to we had to say, well, how many times does 780 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: an asset flip? You know? Is it like when you 781 00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 1: get past quadruple agents and now you're just sort of 782 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:07,280 Speaker 1: working on on stuff like that happens, that really does happen, 783 00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:12,680 Speaker 1: and he gets confusing. Um. So the idea here is 784 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 1: that in Oswald, these conspirators, these far right extremist um. 785 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: And again this is Garrison's idea, these far right extremists, 786 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: these anti Castro Cuban exiles, maybe the MOB and the 787 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 1: CIA or factions thereof, they found the perfect fall guy. 788 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,920 Speaker 1: They found the guy that looked like he would kill 789 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,320 Speaker 1: the president or try to kill the president. If you 790 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,960 Speaker 1: just read you know, if you read like a one 791 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: sheet resume of Lee Harvey Oswald, you would think, I 792 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 1: don't know, I can give it a shot. He looks 793 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:55,279 Speaker 1: good for it. Shaw was, like you said, arrested. He 794 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,919 Speaker 1: was later in a jury trial and he was found 795 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: not guilty. So at least twelve people I thought the 796 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,799 Speaker 1: facts didn't add up about garrison accusations. And again there 797 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,120 Speaker 1: is a d a. He's not you know, he's not 798 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: some crackpot. But dude, But I mean, if you believe 799 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,719 Speaker 1: the whole Mob angle, then the c I a like, 800 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,439 Speaker 1: through its proxies probably would have been able to pay 801 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 1: them um, either through you know, favors or just cold hardcash, 802 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:34,359 Speaker 1: right exactly. You know, hey, you it could have even 803 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,680 Speaker 1: been a threat like you have to help us, you know, 804 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,960 Speaker 1: don y gabba ghoul, or we will turn the screws 805 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: up on your smuggling operation or something like that, we'll 806 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,239 Speaker 1: shut down the union, etcetera. Uh So, let's let's move 807 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:56,320 Speaker 1: from here to talk a little bit about Ozwald. First 808 00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,879 Speaker 1: things First, yes, he was definitely there in Dallas. We meet, 809 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,240 Speaker 1: he's definitely in Dallas. Second, yes, he definitely fired that rifle. 810 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,960 Speaker 1: There's no way around it. His prints around the Guiden 811 00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,440 Speaker 1: he did that. And third, yes, the guy very much 812 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,880 Speaker 1: did want to murder the president of the United States. 813 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,280 Speaker 1: But as anybody who's currently got a pile of laundry 814 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: sitting at home right now can agree, wanting to do 815 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,640 Speaker 1: a thing and actually doing the thing or two very 816 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: very very different things. Dude, I'm gonna get to it tonight, 817 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,720 Speaker 1: cheese ben, Like literally it's on my list for tonight. 818 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,360 Speaker 1: Here's my question, like, if we are to believe the 819 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,759 Speaker 1: government angle or or this in some way using Oswald 820 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 1: as a pawn, like how do you look for fanatics 821 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: like that who fit the bill and then make them 822 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,120 Speaker 1: do the thing and act, you know, treat them as 823 00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,920 Speaker 1: like puppets. Well, also, we're monitoring all of these extremist 824 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 1: groups right sort. Somebody is traveling internationally a lot. You've 825 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: got tabs on those people, especially if they're ex military. Um, 826 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: so you're you're already monitoring them. You know where they're going, 827 00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,120 Speaker 1: you know who they're meeting with. Probably or at least 828 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,440 Speaker 1: you're monitoring that group that this person X met with 829 00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 1: a couple of different times when they were in Mexico 830 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: or when they were in you know, Russia or something. 831 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 1: You could just then learn way too much about your 832 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 1: target that you're imagining could be a Patsy slash fall guy. 833 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all, it all makes sense, you're like, 834 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:38,759 Speaker 1: unfortunately put it like that, mad, Sure as hell does. Yeah, yeah, 835 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: let's throw a twist in it. That's what this shows about. 836 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,920 Speaker 1: So here at this point, like to introduce you all 837 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: to a guy named Gayton Fonzie I like the Funds, 838 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,920 Speaker 1: who was hired by two different groups US government affiliated groups. 839 00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,279 Speaker 1: The Church Committee hired him in the HSC that we 840 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier hired him in nine. This dude was hired 841 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,480 Speaker 1: to investigate this case and he believes there is a 842 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:14,520 Speaker 1: CIA mafia Oswald link. And he thinks a guy named 843 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: David at Leave Phillips, very interesting character, helped orchestrate Oswald's guilt. 844 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:26,440 Speaker 1: Uh there, helped you know, make his story look better. Uh. Phillips, 845 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: Fonzie believed, was a CIA operative who actively worked to 846 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,600 Speaker 1: embellish Oswald's public image or his image to Intelligence as 847 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 1: a communist sympathizer. But Fonzie thinks it goes deeper than that. 848 00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:46,120 Speaker 1: It's deeper than wrap here. Fonzie believes that someone hired 849 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,520 Speaker 1: and he thinks it was Phillips hired an Oswald impersonator 850 00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,200 Speaker 1: to visit that NBSC in Mexico, and he was based 851 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,720 Speaker 1: like based in the slang term about this. He was 852 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,840 Speaker 1: convinced that people who had seen this quote unquote this 853 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: Oswald had seen a different person because he interviewed people 854 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,360 Speaker 1: who described the guy they met, and that physical description 855 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 1: did not fit Oswald. There were sketches of this guy 856 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,520 Speaker 1: apparently that did not look a thing like Oswald. And 857 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: get this, Jagger Hoover agreed. The director of the FBI 858 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,960 Speaker 1: was freaked out by this, and he also wondered whether 859 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,040 Speaker 1: it was Oswald. He didn't say there was definitely an impersonator. 860 00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,480 Speaker 1: But it's weird. He's he's mystified, and you can tell 861 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 1: in his writing. We have a quote from the very 862 00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:44,600 Speaker 1: day after JFK's assassination where Hoover writes the following. The 863 00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,840 Speaker 1: Central Intelligence Agency advised that on October one, nineteen three, 864 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,120 Speaker 1: and extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identifying 865 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,280 Speaker 1: himself as Lee Oswald contact of the Soviet embassy in 866 00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:58,920 Speaker 1: Mexico City, inquiring as to any messages. Special agents of 867 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,920 Speaker 1: the Bureau who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas 868 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 1: have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and 869 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,320 Speaker 1: have listened to a recording of his voice. Especially, agents 870 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: are of the opinion that the referred to individual was 871 00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:19,160 Speaker 1: not Lee Harvey Oswald. Oh yeah, so the hoove man 872 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 1: heavy h is going, Uh what extremely sensitive source. By 873 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,880 Speaker 1: the way, that that phrase means that someone highly placed, 874 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,760 Speaker 1: and it also means that someone they trust, someone who's 875 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,200 Speaker 1: been legit in the past, someone whose cover they don't 876 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 1: want to blow, right exactly. Yeah, But even just as importantly, 877 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: someone they believe will be telling the truth. Uh So, 878 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,640 Speaker 1: Fonzie also found you know, you'll hear the stories that 879 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: Oswald sucked at Russian, that his Russian was broken pretty 880 00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,680 Speaker 1: much on intelligible. That the folks in Russian intelligence he 881 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,520 Speaker 1: tried to contact were like, yeah, what they're talking about, 882 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:04,120 Speaker 1: come with switch English. The other English is much better. Uh. 883 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,120 Speaker 1: That's There was someone claiming to be Oswald and they 884 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,600 Speaker 1: spoke terrible Russian, almost as bad as that fake Russian 885 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,520 Speaker 1: accent I did. But the real Oswald, apparently it was 886 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,520 Speaker 1: pretty much fluent in Russian. It was considered to be 887 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,640 Speaker 1: add a little more gas to this fire. This will 888 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,800 Speaker 1: hopefully send everybody off in your own bag of badgers 889 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,160 Speaker 1: and rabbit holes. There is a conversation between Lyndon Johnson 890 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:35,040 Speaker 1: and Jagger Hoover that echoes the same concerns, and you 891 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,040 Speaker 1: can find it online. You can only find online now 892 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 1: because it wasn't declassified for a very long time. And 893 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,800 Speaker 1: I think we do is I'd like to set you 894 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,480 Speaker 1: guys up for a little bit of acting. I'm bit 895 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 1: of improv Uh, Matt, why don't we cast you as 896 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:59,600 Speaker 1: Lyndon Johnson and Noel uh nailed that Hoover quote, So 897 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,920 Speaker 1: why don't you behoover? If you guys are comfortable with that? Sure, 898 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,720 Speaker 1: all right? So the phone. Let's just just for the 899 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: sake of this, let's imagine they're on the phone. So 900 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 1: I think the phone rings. Have you established any more 901 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,200 Speaker 1: about the Oswald visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico 902 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,720 Speaker 1: and September. Oh, there's one angle that's very confusing. For 903 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,880 Speaker 1: this reason, we have up here on the tape and 904 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,439 Speaker 1: the photograph of the man of the Soviet embassy using 905 01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,720 Speaker 1: Oswald's name that pick the tape do not correspond to 906 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: this voice nor with the parents. In other words, it 907 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,080 Speaker 1: appeared that there was a second person who was at 908 01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:41,400 Speaker 1: the Soviet embassy. Boom, I need that applause. Q called 909 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:48,480 Speaker 1: the great out guys. Dude. So they're talking about this, 910 01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,040 Speaker 1: these two extremely powerful people in the know. We're talking 911 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,840 Speaker 1: about how there's two Oswald's. Yeah, yeah, just it was 912 01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,160 Speaker 1: involved with the embassy in Mexico. What the hell is hell? 913 01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:05,920 Speaker 1: The American public? So was somebody again? Oswald was there, 914 01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,360 Speaker 1: he did have the gun. Um, but Marie was in Dallas. 915 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:15,959 Speaker 1: Uh was somebody trying to make make this story even 916 01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: more air tight. The guy in charge of the FBI, 917 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,720 Speaker 1: the guy in charge of the White House, both of 918 01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,880 Speaker 1: them are having a what the moment you know what 919 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean. This is just a few notches down from 920 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:36,920 Speaker 1: that scene at the end of Usual Suspects not to 921 01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,360 Speaker 1: endorse Spacey, where the where the detective is looking at 922 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,320 Speaker 1: the bulletin board and going, hang on, spoiler alert, real quick, 923 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:49,360 Speaker 1: spoiler alert, real quick, and go we're leaving it, hang 924 01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:53,560 Speaker 1: on leaving what they hang on? You know who's not 925 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:58,880 Speaker 1: there having that conversation the director of intelligence, the c 926 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:05,480 Speaker 1: I A uh yeah and uh and dulless is awaken 927 01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,560 Speaker 1: up and his families like, why are you in such 928 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,120 Speaker 1: a good mood? And he goes, I don't know, I 929 01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,480 Speaker 1: just have a good vibe today. I'm kidding. We're not 930 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,000 Speaker 1: accusing him of that. We're just saying those guys didn't 931 01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 1: get along while JFK was alive. But do we need 932 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,240 Speaker 1: to run that by illegal? So this is where we're 933 01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,480 Speaker 1: gonna leave it for now. There is so very much 934 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,040 Speaker 1: we've not gotten to yet. What about the three tramps, 935 01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,320 Speaker 1: those were all later identified as actual homeless people who 936 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,440 Speaker 1: had gone to a shelter the night before the attack. 937 01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,400 Speaker 1: They were in the area for sure. What about the 938 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,760 Speaker 1: accusations against the Federal Reserve. What about the umbrella man 939 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,680 Speaker 1: that we mentioned what about the idea of a second 940 01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:50,280 Speaker 1: shooter and so on and so on? Was Jack Ruby 941 01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:57,200 Speaker 1: motivated by patriotism when he suddenly assassinated Oswald? Snipping free? 942 01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,240 Speaker 1: The most important loose end of the story. Was he 943 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,520 Speaker 1: part of a larger plan? I mean, guys, this feels 944 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,760 Speaker 1: like it could be a three parter, a four partter, 945 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:10,160 Speaker 1: a new show. I I don't know. But the issue 946 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,680 Speaker 1: here is that, no matter what, none of these theories 947 01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,000 Speaker 1: will ever be fully put to rest until the government 948 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:22,480 Speaker 1: finally declassifies whatever secrets it's still holding back. And it's 949 01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,480 Speaker 1: very very possible that, I would say probable, that those secrets, 950 01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,080 Speaker 1: whatever they may be, will never see the light of day. 951 01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,880 Speaker 1: In reality, it goes back to one single fact, and 952 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,920 Speaker 1: it should keep you up at night. What is the 953 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,439 Speaker 1: motivation for keeping this stuff secret? What exactly is Uncle 954 01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,760 Speaker 1: Sam hiding? Because whether you even if you believe it's 955 01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,720 Speaker 1: just Oswald acting on his own, the US government is 956 01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:53,280 Speaker 1: hiding something, and just to appeal to the cheap skates 957 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,800 Speaker 1: in the crowd, you're paying for it. Don't ever forget 958 01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,560 Speaker 1: that part. Like you're you know, you're paying for the markers, 959 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,960 Speaker 1: You're paying for the printing and you're you're paying for 960 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,920 Speaker 1: if there's a cover up, you're paying for that for 961 01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,800 Speaker 1: whoever that body double was it was pretending to be Oswald, 962 01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,960 Speaker 1: you paid for you know, whatever restaurant they ate at indirectly. 963 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:20,400 Speaker 1: Uh and and you know, and you keep paying. Jeez. 964 01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: I really have to just say, like it's been a 965 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,600 Speaker 1: while since I really delved into this and thinking about 966 01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,000 Speaker 1: it all again, Like we had that discussion on Harmon 967 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:41,200 Speaker 1: Town about this stuff, and man, I just it feels 968 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,960 Speaker 1: like we're on the precipice of learning what's what happened, right, 969 01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:54,280 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be bad only wherever gonna now? I 970 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,280 Speaker 1: think we will you really do? Yeah? You wanna make 971 01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,680 Speaker 1: you want to place bets? Yeah, let's do it. I 972 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,440 Speaker 1: think this is what's gonna happen. Julian Assange is gonna escape. 973 01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,760 Speaker 1: First thing on his list. Get those last JFK files. 974 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,520 Speaker 1: Can we make bets on each stage of your scenario here, 975 01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:13,880 Speaker 1: like like they do in like the big high level 976 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:15,560 Speaker 1: betting part where you can like bet on like you know, 977 01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,840 Speaker 1: whether it rains in the third quarter of a football game. Yeah, 978 01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm just playing, Um, I don't know. Ye, Well, that's 979 01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:30,280 Speaker 1: the thing. Uh, specifically, we making and listening to this 980 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,600 Speaker 1: show today may never know. Uh, it may be released 981 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:38,960 Speaker 1: after some folks die, It may be released after our time. 982 01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:45,160 Speaker 1: This go round his past, so he may just end 983 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,439 Speaker 1: up being an historical mystery. But again, more than half 984 01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,760 Speaker 1: of the US is waiting to hear what they think 985 01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:55,840 Speaker 1: is the real story. And and the thing that's fascinating 986 01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,640 Speaker 1: about this for me is every time I throw up 987 01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:02,800 Speaker 1: my hands and think, well, yeah, maybe it's just that easy. 988 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:08,080 Speaker 1: Maybe through a combination and evil luck and the devil's luck, 989 01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,160 Speaker 1: they will call it um being in the right place 990 01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,880 Speaker 1: at the right time. Maybe Oswald won the dark lottery 991 01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,960 Speaker 1: of being a one man shooter and put one of 992 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,160 Speaker 1: the world's most important people to rest on his own. 993 01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,600 Speaker 1: And then you run into other stuff like the new 994 01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,880 Speaker 1: president and the director of the FBI at an absolute 995 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,480 Speaker 1: loss over who actually walked into that embassy in Mexico. 996 01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:36,520 Speaker 1: All right, what do you have to say? Seriously? You 997 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,840 Speaker 1: can contact us all kinds of different ways Twitter, Facebook, 998 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:45,320 Speaker 1: work conspiracy stuff, Instagram, conspiracy stuff. Show. We ask please, 999 01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:47,880 Speaker 1: if you have a moment, head on over to Apple 1000 01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,120 Speaker 1: Podcasts and leave a review. It would be awesome if 1001 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,200 Speaker 1: it was kind and five stars doesn't have to be 1002 01:07:55,240 --> 01:08:04,760 Speaker 1: that'd be super cool. Yeah, oh yeah, you can do 1003 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,400 Speaker 1: that if you want to. If you don't like social 1004 01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,440 Speaker 1: media YouTube, by the way, YouTube conspiracy stuff. If you 1005 01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,520 Speaker 1: don't like social media, there are other ways to find us. 1006 01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,960 Speaker 1: That's right. You can use your appendages, your vestigial digits 1007 01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,360 Speaker 1: is what they're called. UM to dial a telephone, if 1008 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:22,960 Speaker 1: it's doing one of those the buttons, or if it's 1009 01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:24,800 Speaker 1: one of those rotary ones, you can just use one finger. 1010 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,760 Speaker 1: Takes a longer time, but it's also cool because it 1011 01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:28,680 Speaker 1: makes a neat clickie sound, and you can dial one 1012 01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,720 Speaker 1: eight three three S T D W I T K, 1013 01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,080 Speaker 1: then proceed to use your mouth to talk into the 1014 01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,840 Speaker 1: mouthpiece of that telephone while listening with your ear to 1015 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,480 Speaker 1: the sound of Ben's dulcet tones welcoming you to the hotline, 1016 01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,080 Speaker 1: at which point you will prompt you to leave a message. 1017 01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,360 Speaker 1: You have three minutes to tell us your tale. Those 1018 01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,519 Speaker 1: three minutes belong to you, UM. Enjoy them, but use 1019 01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,760 Speaker 1: them wisely. And if you need more time than that, 1020 01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,280 Speaker 1: or you really want to give us a whole rundown 1021 01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:56,400 Speaker 1: with links and details and dates and bullet points and 1022 01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,800 Speaker 1: all that stuff footnotes. You can send us a good 1023 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:03,160 Speaker 1: old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 1024 01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,200 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 1025 01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,360 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1026 01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,280 Speaker 1: visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 1027 01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:31,719 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.