1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Stone's Touring Party is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Stone's Touring Party. I'm 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: your host Jordan run Tug So Far. Over the course 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: of this series, we've examined the madness and socio political 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: movements that made the Rolling Stones nineteen seventy two North 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: American tour a singular moment in pop culture, one that 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: crystallized the tumult of the era and reflected a crucial. 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 3: Shift in the business of rock. 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: But very little attention's been paid to the music, especially 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: the album that The Stones were on the road to promote, 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: their moody double disc epic Exile on mainstream. To remedy this, 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: I sought the help of my dear friend and colleague 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: Noel Brown. In addition to being the executive producer of 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 2: this podcast, he's also a brilliant musician and record producer 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: who's responsible for co composing much of the music you've. 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: Heard on this show. 17 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: Noel put in a call to an old buddy who's 18 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: a bona fide music legend, David Barbie. On top of 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: co founding the pioneering host punk band Mercyland and playing 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: alongside Who'scurdu's Bob Mold and Sugar. He's also produced in 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: during classic albums for the likes of Drive By Truckers, 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: Ram Deer Hunter, and sun Bolt. What's more, excell on 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: main Street happens to be one of his all time 24 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 2: favorite records. Nolan and I were so excited to throw 25 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: down with him about all things Stones and learn why 26 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: ex All on Main Street has been a creative. 27 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: Touchstone throughout his entire career. 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy our conversation with David Barbie. 29 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 4: This show. 30 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: It's about the Rolling Stones tour of North America in 31 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two to promote Exile on Main Street. And 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: over the course of the show, we've talked about the 33 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: circumstances the recording of the album and all the craziest 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: of the tour and all the social and political changes 35 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: happening in the United States at that time. But we 36 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: haven't really discussed the music yet. We'd like to remedy 37 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: that today, and we know this is an album that 38 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: means a lot to you. So I guess, just to start, 39 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: what exactly is it about this record that has had 40 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: such a profound effect on your life and your work? 41 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 5: Well, I love the stunt and it's funny. 42 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 6: We should be talking about this now because two days 43 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 6: ago I had my sixtieth birthday party at the forty 44 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 6: watt here in Athens, and I played with four of 45 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 6: my bands of the last forty years, No Sugar. 46 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 5: Bob and I talked. 47 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 6: About this, but we couldn't. We just couldn't coordinate. Once 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 6: he couldn't do it. It's like, well, I can't do Sugar 49 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 6: without Bob. But anyway, these all these other bands played 50 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 6: and I was trying to think of some way to 51 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 6: end the night, and so it occurred to me what 52 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 6: I wanted to do is cover rocks off with including 53 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 6: horns and percussion and keys, like the whole thing pretty epic. 54 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 6: There's about fifteen people up there because everybody wants As 55 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 6: soon as I proposed it, every person in every band 56 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 6: was like, oh my god, I want to play on that. 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 6: And I'm discovering that like three of the people that 58 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 6: played guitar or bass and the bands play a saxophone, 59 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 6: trumpet and trombone. 60 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 5: Was like, well we got to do this, yeah, and 61 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 5: it was pretty phenomenal really, but so yeah, that's funny. 62 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 6: We should be talking with this now because just by 63 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 6: pure happenstance. That was the last musical thing to emit 64 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 6: from my body was me playing the first song on 65 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 6: this record. So we're just going to take the needle 66 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 6: and from my sixty years of being on the earth 67 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 6: and my forty years of listening to this record and 68 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 6: put it back. 69 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 5: To the beginning. 70 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 6: And then I loved, you know, obviously I love the 71 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 6: Stones and I love the record. I mean, people, my 72 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 6: aides at make rock and roll records, it's like we 73 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 6: all just basically rip off the Stones and the Beetles 74 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 6: and leads Uppelin and Bob Dylan and just stew it up. 75 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 6: And Neil Young, you know, brought those five. You kind 76 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 6: of got it and you stew it up your own way. 77 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 6: Add like a little dash of Jimi Hendrix in there, maybe, 78 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 6: you know, sprinkle punk rock to taste, and it so 79 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 6: my awareness of the record as a child, until getting 80 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 6: a copy of the actual album in college is. 81 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 5: Sprinkled like Tumblin Dice was a hit. 82 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 6: Like I knew the song, I didn't have any idea 83 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 6: what it was called, or any idea of what the 84 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 6: words were because like to me, I love the mix 85 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 6: of exem La main Street because the vocals are loud 86 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 6: but not clear. 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 5: It's it could mean virtually anything to you. 88 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 6: Then, like all through the seventies, there's a come through 89 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 6: the sixties and seventies really, but especially probably starting in 90 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 6: about the mid sixties, there was it was really common 91 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 6: for artists to have multiple Greatest Hits packages because it's 92 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 6: a way for the record labels to repackage and sell 93 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 6: it a second time. It is a way to take 94 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 6: the singles that weren't on albums. I mean the stones, 95 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 6: you know, it's like Jumping Jack Flash was not deemed 96 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 6: worthy of inclusion on Beggar's Banquet because well, that old thing, 97 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 6: it's already been out. Honky Tonk Women was not included 98 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 6: on Let It Bleed, because you know that who needs 99 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 6: that old thing? 100 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 5: It's already been released. 101 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 6: And it's a funny thing about a band now that had, 102 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 6: even if they're lucky enough to write and written one 103 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 6: song like either of those, to actually just say yo, 104 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 6: we're not putting that on the album wouldn't happen. But 105 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 6: the Greatest Hits package is the other thing was able 106 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 6: to market to more casual consumers and to kids. Because 107 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 6: an album, if you bought a copy of if you 108 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 6: wanted to get all, say the Rolling Stones hits of 109 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 6: like the first half of the nineteen seventies when I 110 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 6: was a school age child, you would have to buy 111 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 6: you know, four or five six albums at you know 112 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 6: six or for a double maybe a ten or twelve 113 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 6: dollars apiece, and you know, I probably got like, you know, 114 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 6: twenty five cents a week allowance, or you could buy 115 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 6: Greatest Hits package, And so nobody was a more shameless 116 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 6: repackager of Greatest Hiss collections in the Rolling Stones, Who's 117 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 6: starting with Big Hits High Tides in Green Grass in 118 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 6: nineteen sixty six, which is awesome, Okay, so we got 119 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 6: one in sixty six that'll cover us for a while, 120 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 6: well until sixty nine, because then we're going to release 121 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 6: Through the Past Darkly. 122 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 5: That'll last a while. 123 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe two years this time, because like by seventy 124 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 6: one will released Hot Rocks, and then in seventy five 125 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 6: it's Made in the Shade, So in like a ten 126 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 6: year period they've got four Greatest Hits albums already. 127 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 5: But so Made in the Shade was. 128 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 6: One that I had, and it had little slices off 129 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 6: of the post basically the first few years of Rolling 130 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 6: Stones Records once they had control over their own master recordings, 131 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 6: because of course Alan Klein owns every master recording up 132 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 6: until There's probably a whole separate podcast about the Alan 133 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 6: Kleines involvemore with the Rolling Stones. 134 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 5: Great book about it too. 135 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 6: But so those you know, four albums that had been 136 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 6: released to Fingers in Exile and Goat's Head Soup and 137 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 6: it's only rock and roll, you you know, picked two 138 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 6: three songs off each record and man, you've really got 139 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 6: something so humbling Dice ripped this joint and happy We're 140 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 6: all made in the shade. 141 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 5: So it was like a school age kid. 142 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 6: I had those, and then occasionally I would hear these 143 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 6: other ones, you know, on the radio or whatever, like 144 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 6: all down. 145 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 5: The Line or rocks Off. 146 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 6: And when I was a freshman at Georgia, I was 147 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 6: in my dorm room and heard this music blasting out 148 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 6: of the room below me. Went down there, banged on 149 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 6: the door. These guys opened up, you know, boonk smoke 150 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 6: wafting out. One of them a highly successful attorney right now, 151 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 6: name will be concealed to protect the end semi innos, 152 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 6: of course, but uh as opposed to that I was 153 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 6: gonna as opposed to yelling them, it's like, hey, turn 154 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 6: your music down. 155 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 5: And I was like, what album is this song on? 156 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 6: Because like I didn't even know rocks Off was called 157 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 6: rocks Off. I just knew that it was a stone 158 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 6: song that went Bob, you know, here it on the radio, 159 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 6: here it in the parking lot, and uh. But well, 160 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 6: you know had my childhood, you know, buying albums here 161 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 6: and there had a few albums, but like it's not 162 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 6: you know, Pitchfork and Brooklyn Vegan, like it's not a 163 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 6: thing and it's uh, and so they were like, oh yeah, 164 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 6: and for some reason weird because it's like every kid 165 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 6: I knew had there's some albums that every kid I 166 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 6: knew had in my neighborhood. We all had Abbey Road, 167 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 6: we all had to Let It Bleed, and we all 168 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 6: had like Zeppelin two. But like there's other weird pockets, 169 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 6: like very few had Zeppelin three and very few there 170 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 6: was just like weird albums like here and there that 171 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 6: like some neighborhood, some older brother was into some record 172 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 6: and had some but not all. So it was just 173 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 6: like they were like, yeah, do you want to borrow it? 174 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 6: And I was like yes, and then I was like, 175 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 6: oh my god, even like all the deep cuts, and 176 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 6: so what I really started getting into around that time was, 177 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 6: I mean I'd heard you know, Tumblin Dice probably about 178 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 6: as many times as I heard Freebirder Stairway to Heaven. 179 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 5: So it's like. 180 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 6: I wasn't like I want this so I can listen 181 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 6: to the songs. I know, it's just like I found 182 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 6: myself like obsessing over like Soul Survivor or Torn in 183 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 6: Freight or something. And you know, it's probably about a 184 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 6: couple of days before I went out and bought like, 185 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 6: you know, first I recorded taped theirs at my own 186 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 6: home cassette and then it's. 187 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 5: Like, I just need to buy a record of this. 188 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 6: So it's like I knew that most I knew a 189 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 6: lot of it just from like other people's records here 190 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 6: and things, parties and things, but never just had a 191 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 6: copy of it. And it's more a matter of the 192 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 6: reality of economics of being a kid in the seventies. 193 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 6: It's like, yeah, dude, you get paid to sixty five 194 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 6: an hour for working at Taco bell. And I came 195 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 6: from a family that was of the belief that there's 196 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 6: no scholarships for retirement. Son, you better get to save 197 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 6: in your money up and like to go to school 198 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 6: or live or whatever, you know, So which was actually 199 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 6: better for me than. 200 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 5: Having a bunch of stuff handed to me, I think anyway. 201 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 6: But it's so yeah, that's my kind of like slow 202 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 6: dive into it, and it's one of those things. There 203 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 6: are just albums in my life like this where the 204 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 6: more I listened to it, the more I listened to it. 205 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 6: There's some you listen to it a few times and 206 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 6: are like, man, that's great, got it. There's other things 207 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 6: that are just so dense, and I think this is 208 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 6: true of double albums and generally Exile on Main Street, 209 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 6: Physical Graffiti, Blonde on Blonde, Double Nickels in the Dime. 210 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 6: These are all things that I can listen that just 211 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 6: like kind of don't grow old. 212 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 5: Because there's just so. 213 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 6: Much and it just takes a while to really go 214 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 6: through it, and you might be in a while where 215 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 6: it's like I'm really you know, I'm just into side 216 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 6: three right now, and so yeah, it's a grower. The 217 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 6: other thing about Exile is that it's not like the 218 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 6: immediate impact of hit hit hit hit hit. 219 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 5: It's just one of those growers because there's. 220 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 6: So many deep cuts, the sound of it, the vibe 221 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 6: of it, and then once you know the story behind 222 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 6: it too. Yeah, it just it just like sucked me in, 223 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 6: Like you know, there's things in my life that do. 224 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 6: And I will say this about me in general. I've 225 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 6: had other people point this out to me before whatever 226 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 6: I'm into, I really get into it. And me and 227 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 6: eggs An on Main Street absolutely was a thing that 228 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 6: uh yeah, it's like it's like eating at like my 229 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 6: favorite local taco place or like some kind of genes 230 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 6: I like to wear that. 231 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, I just don't get tired of it. 232 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned, you know, the density of it, and 233 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: I think that speaks to you know, the content the songs, 234 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: but also the sound. 235 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 4: I mean it is it sounds. 236 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: Different than other records, and when you get into the 237 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: story of how it was made, it's understandable why that's 238 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: the case. Obviously they did overdubs and you know, fancier studios, 239 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: but it was a very kind of DIY, you know, 240 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: big budget DIY, the big budget dy record that made 241 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: in a basement. Did you immediately clock that this didn't 242 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: sound like other records that you knew that there was 243 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: something in there. Were you thinking about production yet at 244 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: this point or was it kind of just like secondary 245 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: to like these songs? 246 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 4: Rip? 247 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 5: Man, that's a good question. I don't know. 248 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 6: You know, I have been recording things my bands. Like 249 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 6: the oldest recording I have of me and other kids 250 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 6: playing music goes back to being about ten years old. 251 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 6: So I was thinking about production. I was always in 252 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 6: the studio with my parents and stuff. 253 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 5: But I I don't know that I thought consciously about, 254 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 5: Oh I love how they rolled a little three K 255 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 5: off the guitars here, or. 256 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 6: It just just like the way it sounds is just 257 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 6: a way that sounds, right, Like I've been wearing regular 258 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 6: just like regular Levi's jeans that I only now know 259 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 6: the number of because for years those were just known 260 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 6: as jeans, and now of course it's they've got like 261 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 6: a billion different kinds. Right If I were to go 262 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 6: into a store and put on like a modern pair 263 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 6: of like slim fit jeans, would be like, what the 264 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 6: fuck are these things? 265 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 5: You know? It's like who knows. 266 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 6: It's just like that sound of that record is just 267 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 6: the thing that's like, Uh, I realized that I'm not 268 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 6: really much of a closed horse. I realized this is 269 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 6: my second attire reference that I've made in this. But 270 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 6: it's the sound of it just over time, I think, 271 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 6: kind of seeps in. But I'll tell you one of 272 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 6: the things that's so different about it than other Rolling 273 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 6: Stones records is this is clearly a Keith Richard's production 274 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 6: that the sixties records. You know, Loug Goldham definitely in 275 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 6: charge the first couple of Jimmy Miller things. Just like 276 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 6: it's like this is a different take. 277 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 5: And but. 278 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 6: I mean, obviously you guys as much as me have 279 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 6: read the books and know this stories. And I also 280 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 6: had the incredible experience of having Stanley Booth live in 281 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 6: Athens for about six months or so, maybe. 282 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 5: Five eight years ago. 283 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 6: He was donating some stuff to the EGA Library. And Stanley, 284 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 6: even in his seventies, a delightful guy, like a witty, 285 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 6: interesting and also kind of a man about town, and 286 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 6: I would we really hit it off, and he told 287 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 6: me a bunch of great stuff just about hanging out 288 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 6: with them, and uh, but yeah, to me, just like 289 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 6: the sound of it is like this is a Keith record, 290 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 6: like Mick is. I mean, all this is like fan 291 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 6: knowledge to me, you know, it's not like they've you 292 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 6: know that in my two and a half minute meeting 293 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 6: with Mick Jagger about five years ago that we. 294 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 5: Like discuss this in d In fact, I. 295 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 6: Didn't say anything about the Stones to him. It was 296 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 6: just like, I'm not doing that. We're just gonna have 297 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 6: a little chit chat. But it's a you know, but 298 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 6: just what you know about the band at the time 299 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 6: is that like Mick has just gotten married to Bianca. 300 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 5: He's kind of off doing that, and nobody else really 301 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 5: has a vote. I'm sure that Charlie would if he 302 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 5: wanted to rest his soul. 303 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 6: But yeah, it's so like this is a Keith record, man. 304 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 6: It seems like it's all driven by that and the 305 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 6: tangle with Keith and Mick Taylor, the Graham Parsons hangout influence, 306 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 6: you know. 307 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 5: By now he's an icon. Then he's like a young hotshot. 308 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 6: You know, and the Burrito Brothers and those and I 309 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 6: guess that I don't think like Grievous Angel or GP 310 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 6: are out yet, but. 311 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 5: They're a little out of like seventy three, seventy four maybe. 312 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 5: But yeah, it's just got. 313 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 6: Its own kind of stew It's produced by Jimmy Miller, 314 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 6: but now he's kind of living like the band. It's 315 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 6: all kind of Basically every peripheral person involved other than 316 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 6: the other band members seems to have just been sucked 317 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 6: into Keith world. Mick Taylor certainly sucked into Keith world. 318 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 6: Mick Jagger, He's Mick Jagger. He is his own thing, 319 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 6: and he and Keith are their own thing. But like he's, 320 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 6: you know, doing his thing as he's going to do it. 321 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 6: But really it's just like Jimmy, all the engineers, all 322 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 6: the hangers on, everybody's in Keith world. When you read 323 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 6: about because I've read all the books you've talked about 324 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 6: on the episodes, but I've read all that too, and 325 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 6: which was cool. 326 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 5: Is just like listening to this and being like, oh, yeah, 327 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 5: somebody else also reads all of these books. Yeah. 328 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 6: It's probably spent my adult life trying to recreate with 329 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 6: something that's almost as good as that. 330 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, it's almost become a shorthand for 331 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: a band to do their exile, you know, a long, 332 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: sprawling mood piece, right, And it's fascinating to look back 333 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 2: on the contemporary reviews of when Exile came out and 334 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: see how confused people were by it. Yeah, and I mean, 335 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: I guess this is partially because you know, it's not 336 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: it's it's a hard album to get to know. I 337 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 2: found and but like you said, it is a grower. 338 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: But I mean, that's what I love reading the first 339 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 2: blush reviews from some of these people having listened to it, 340 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: you know, a couple of times only, and basically said, 341 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: you know, what is this dark, unhappy place that the 342 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 2: Stones are bringing us to? 343 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 3: What is going on? 344 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 6: It's murky, the vocals aren't loud enough, it's too long, 345 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 6: there's too much on it. 346 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 5: It'd be a better record if it was edited. Yeah, 347 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 5: you read contemporary reviews. 348 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 6: There's a few people that like God had I mean 349 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 6: that really loved it right away. But there's a lot 350 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 6: But it's not an instant classic. It's funny. It's like 351 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 6: I got into a while back. I was curious, like, okay, 352 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 6: like reading reviews of old records, Like there's certain records 353 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 6: now that we all just acknowledge as classics, but how 354 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 6: were they perceived at the time. 355 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 5: Read a review of Neil Young. 356 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 6: Time fades away from when it came out, and then 357 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 6: read like the Pitchfork glowing review of the reissue like 358 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 6: a year ago, and it's like, oh man, all it 359 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 6: needed was to be like forty eight years older and 360 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 6: people would like finally appreciate it for what it is. 361 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 6: And yeah, there's It's interesting you read contemporary reviews of 362 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 6: Exile and it's like not universally hailed. It's only over 363 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 6: time that it became universally recognized. At the time, I mean, 364 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 6: there's some people that got it right away, but yeah, 365 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 6: but it's it's a real grower. I mean, it's one 366 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 6: of those records that would have been better if it 367 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 6: was if it was really to the press like a 368 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 6: year early. 369 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 4: Why do you think that is? 370 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: Though? Like, what is it about it that was maybe 371 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: ahead of its time? Isn't even the right way of 372 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: describing it. Do you think there was intent with that 373 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: or was it just the product of like a kind 374 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: of perfect storm of chaos and just like you know, 375 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: the whole story behind it, it yielded this result that 376 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: wasn't really repeatable. I'm just wondering, like, why has it 377 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: become you know, in hindsight this kind of like Juggernaut. 378 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 6: You can only look at decisions that were made based 379 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 6: on the knowledge that the person that made the decision 380 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 6: had at the time, right, Like, there are that you 381 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 6: can march backwards into history and find all kinds of 382 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 6: reasons why the nuclear bombs should not have been dropped. 383 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 6: But we didn't have that information or not we I 384 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 6: wasn't born yet, but they didn't have a lot of 385 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 6: that information at the time. It's a huge unknown there. 386 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 6: There are all kinds of things that when someone encountered 387 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 6: something new the first time, is just so alien to them. 388 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 6: And if you think about the stones, like the last 389 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 6: thing that people had heard from the Stones had been 390 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 6: Brown Sugar, a number one hit record and just and 391 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 6: a different you know, and it was just like kind 392 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 6: of it seems to me like a you know, just 393 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 6: like uplifting feeling track in spite of the subject matter. 394 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 6: I mean, as a child, I thought, I was seven 395 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 6: years old, I thought that Brown Sugar was about kids 396 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 6: who stayed up all night and waited until just after 397 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 6: midnight when the grown ups go to sleep, and then 398 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 6: eat candy all night long, like chocolate, you know, brown sugar, 399 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 6: and it's not about that. But when I was seven 400 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 6: and it was a hit record, and my mother would 401 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 6: say that song is vulgar, and I was like, oh, 402 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 6: vulgar means she doesn't want the children to stay up 403 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 6: until after midnight and eat Hershey's bars all night long. 404 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 6: She didn't that either, but that's not again what it's about. 405 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 6: But anyway, but it had this massive hit record and 406 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 6: then also like The Moving Wild Horses had come out, 407 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 6: and it's the seventies, the Stones are no longer drug. 408 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 5: Outlaws where a couple of years. 409 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 6: Pasted Altamont, and it's they're just huge stars. And so 410 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 6: there's that. But if you think about like popular music 411 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 6: at the time, the Beatles have broken up and now 412 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 6: it gives way for somebody else to ascend, and it's 413 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 6: a little like Neil released them Tonight's to Night or 414 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 6: Time Fades Away or something where fans are just like 415 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 6: what happened to Harvest and with Exile, I just I 416 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 6: mean I think that it's it's just so it's just 417 00:22:53,440 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 6: not what people were expecting out of of an album 418 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 6: at that time, and so like what we know that's 419 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 6: happened since it's like, it totally makes sense in the 420 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 6: progression of things. Music by other people, it totally makes 421 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 6: sense in the progression of things and in some ways 422 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 6: the Stones are ahead of their time, not just with 423 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 6: having the vocals buried in a murky mix or something, 424 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 6: even though I think the mix is perfect, don't get 425 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 6: me wrong, but it's But in terms of this is 426 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 6: in front of Watergate, this is in front of I mean, 427 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 6: this isn't all of those you know, it's in front 428 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 6: of the US, you know, pulling out of Vietnam. 429 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 5: I mean, it's like. 430 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 6: And there's a lot of records in the mid seventies, 431 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 6: you know, there's not the economic you know, downturn of 432 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 6: the you know, is in front of the Arab oil embargo. 433 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 6: A lot of huge cultural and economic things that have happened, 434 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 6: and there's a lot of records that were made in 435 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 6: response to that. But like this, the Stones thing, it 436 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 6: just happened. It's just but there were just hard to 437 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 6: have many records like that at the time. 438 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: But also like all that political stuff doesn't really read 439 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: to me as a listener. 440 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 5: It's less, it's not part of it. It's insane, that's 441 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 5: not part of it. 442 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 6: But like these like downward feeling, down feeling records by 443 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 6: the mid seventies were very common, but like in nineteen 444 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 6: seventy two, none of that existed, and so. 445 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: I guess they had the blank check ability to make 446 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: that record because they had already proven themselves and had 447 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: all of these hits, and so they were you know, 448 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: they were allowed to go into a basement and make 449 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: a murky, weird record and nobody shut them down. It's 450 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: so funny that you mentioned the mix and the vocals 451 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: being low. You know, in the podcast, we talk about 452 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: how they you know, talked to radio stations and had 453 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: them play the mixes for them so they could listen 454 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: to it in the car, because that was like one 455 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: of the only ways to do it. 456 00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 4: I think it was. 457 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: Barry Gordy would like just you know, wire up a 458 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: car speaker, you know, in their conference room. But like 459 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: the Stones literally had DJs just they would like ply 460 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: them with drugs. I guess their PR team would and 461 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: they would just play whole records and they'd listen to 462 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: it in their limo, and they fussed and sweated and 463 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: obsessed over these mixes and it still ends up not 464 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: sounding like a traditional rock record of the time. What 465 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: do you think that esthetic came from? Like, do you 466 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: think they knew consciously we're making this weird, dark record? 467 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: The tone needs to match the tone of the content 468 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: of the songs, Like as a producer, like where does 469 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: that at? What stage does that happen? Is it conscious 470 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,239 Speaker 1: or is it just this is what we ended up with. 471 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: Now we have to lean into this as hard as 472 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: we can. 473 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 6: I mean, there's two things that could you know, possibly 474 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 6: be the case here. One is I get where you're 475 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 6: coming from this. Sometimes you're working on something else, Like 476 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 6: we want the tone to match the music, right, we 477 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 6: wanted a darker you know, it's like it feels like 478 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 6: a really bright, hyper compressed Nick Drake album. It wouldn't 479 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 6: make any sense to anybody, but really, to me, what 480 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 6: I see in the studio, you know, after years and 481 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 6: years and years and thousands, tens of hundreds of thousands 482 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 6: of hours, maybe doing this is that you're just in 483 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 6: it and just kind of make it what it is. 484 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 6: And it's, uh, I'm way past like going out to 485 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 6: the car and listening to something. It's like, I know 486 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 6: what it sounds like in a control room. I mean, 487 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 6: I just listen to other things on the speakers to 488 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 6: kind of get my head wrapped around it a little bit. 489 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 6: But I just think you're just in it and just 490 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 6: make it what it is. And it's funny because sometimes 491 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 6: in the process of doing that, you come out later 492 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 6: and realize, are these vocals loud enough? Are the base 493 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 6: too loud or something? And sometimes it is and you 494 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 6: got to go back and do it again. But other 495 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 6: times it's like, it's just what it is. And it's 496 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 6: like if you I mean personal experience, like when I'm 497 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 6: not sure about a mix, I'll listen then compared to 498 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 6: other things, or when somebody else isn't sure about a mix, 499 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 6: I was like, Okay, tell me four songs that you 500 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 6: love that you wish this sound alike. And they'll tell 501 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 6: me four things and we'll listen to all four in 502 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 6: a row and they'll realize, oh, yeah, none of them 503 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 6: actually sound alike. I was like, Yeah, anything is any 504 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 6: good doesn't sound like anything else. 505 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 5: It's its own thing. 506 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 6: Anything that sounds like something else is like being the 507 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 6: you know, nobody remembers the second guy to walk on 508 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 6: the moon, and so it's uh. I mean to me, 509 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 6: it's like, if you're doing any making, any great piece 510 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 6: of art, it is got to be its own thing. 511 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 5: And maybe that's what I like about exile. You know, 512 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 5: both the content and the sound is it's its own thing. 513 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 6: When you hear one of those songs, there's no doubt 514 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 6: which Stones album it's from. And it was all you 515 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 6: know we talked about the beginning. It's all recorded not 516 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 6: in a traditional studio, the room things are recorded in. 517 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 6: I mean there's a lot of work on the back 518 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 6: end done at Sunset, we know that, but the primary 519 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 6: parts of it being tracked down there in the basement. 520 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's got to have an effect on it. 521 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: I am no word, I'm not well versed in any 522 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: sense about the finer points of recording, but I wanted 523 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 2: to talk to you more about just how challenging it 524 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 2: was to get anything that sounded halfway decent in a 525 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: basement of a French villa, Like. 526 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 6: How man, I've done this kind of thing so many times. 527 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 6: I can tell you all about the challenges of it. 528 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 6: And there was Sunball Wide Spring Trimolat, which I recorded 529 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 6: in their practice space, which was a warehouse that shared 530 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 6: a building with some kind of wood shop because we 531 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 6: couldn't start until the evening because we had to let 532 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 6: all the glue fumes die down before we could work. 533 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 5: There was I took a. 534 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 6: Bunch of gear into there and then had a bunch 535 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 6: of stuff that they had in their space and just 536 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 6: kind of cobbled it together. There was the first Harvey 537 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 6: Milk album, which I made in somebody's house on a 538 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 6: digital eight track with four hundred dollars portable console and 539 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 6: then like three good mic pres and a couple of 540 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 6: good mics and just made it work because that's what 541 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 6: they have, the budget they had, and that's what they 542 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 6: wanted to do. 543 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 5: There is blood Kin Raven Beauty's, which. 544 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 6: I rented a mobile truck and went to the basement 545 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 6: of a friend of the band's. 546 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 5: Uh and uh, they they. 547 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 6: Wanted to make a record like Exalaman where we had 548 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 6: a mobile truck. We had we didn't work until like nighttime. 549 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 6: We worked into the middle of the night and uh 550 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 6: there and then of course I met did not record 551 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 6: but mixed drive by Trucker Southern Rock Opera, which was 552 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 6: made with a bunch to you know, whatever they could 553 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 6: afford to put in some old warehouse. I've done this 554 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 6: a ton of times, the process of making that work, 555 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 6: even if you've got great engineers. But by now we 556 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 6: but we have to go back and remember it's like 557 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 6: at the time Andy Johns is not this veteran, but 558 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 6: he's like a young guy who's a great engineer, has 559 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 6: worked on huge records and he's the real deal. But 560 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 6: but it's not like you hear Andy Johns or Glenn 561 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 6: or any of these older producer guys talk about, you know, 562 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 6: and it's like they're these weathered old men of you know, 563 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 6: of you know, sands of time. But at the time 564 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 6: they're like guys, young guys in their twenties who were 565 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 6: like it's like, okay, we are We've got microphones, we've 566 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 6: got a mic box, We've got a snake with the 567 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 6: snake runs out of the truck. The truck, there's another 568 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 6: box that we take there and plug into the gear, 569 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 6: plug out of the you know, gain input gain, and 570 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 6: then out of that into the tape machines and then 571 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 6: out of the tape machines in some sort of playback system. 572 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 6: And we have to be able to listen to it 573 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 6: in the house too, because they want to be able 574 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 6: to do that. And does the electrical power that we 575 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 6: have the truck wired for match the French electrical power 576 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 6: that's in the basement. Does years of a huge house 577 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 6: being on the water that was designed to power like 578 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 6: chandeliers and a stove and not a recording equipment and amplifiers. 579 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 6: Is the power system overtaxed? Are their additional ground hums? 580 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 6: Is there RF interference that gets into the signal? 581 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 4: Wait? 582 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 6: Channel eight's not working right now? Hang on, let me 583 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 6: get out of the truck. Unplug some wires. Walk down 584 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 6: the hill, walk into the house, go in the basement, 585 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 6: tell them they have to stop. Unplug something there, you know, 586 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 6: be back and forth. There's no cell phones, We're not 587 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 6: remember they have a walkie talkie or something. 588 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 5: I don't know. 589 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 6: But what I'm getting at here is it's not just 590 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 6: there was a house. There was a truck, And I 591 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 6: mean there's literally a so many Q points where something 592 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 6: can go wrong. It's a real start and stop press 593 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 6: the process. And the other thing that is kind of 594 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 6: not addressed that much, because there's so much romance behind 595 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 6: this record, deservedly so, is the fact that the people, 596 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 6: the engineers that work on these records are human beings 597 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 6: who need to eat and sleep and take a walk 598 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 6: and have a life outside of waiting on people to 599 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 6: show up to work at midnight. And I can tell 600 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 6: you making these kind of records like this, there is 601 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 6: a lot of time where it's just like I'm there 602 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 6: a few hours before anybody else gets there, and I'll 603 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 6: be there after everybody is done, and I'm like one 604 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 6: of the animatronic musicians at Chuck E Cheese, except the 605 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 6: engineer version where it's like I'm ready, I'm on my 606 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 6: game and then whatever. 607 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 5: It's like, that's just the job. 608 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 6: And having been, you know, a musician myself for so long, 609 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 6: I understand that, like, everybody will play better, will be 610 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 6: more creative if the engineer and the gear is an 611 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 6: invisible part of the process, if you don't think about it, 612 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,479 Speaker 6: like here in the con studios, Like when I'm training 613 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 6: young people, it's like the wires in here, the mic 614 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 6: cables always run this way, the sound baffles are always 615 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 6: put up this way. You know, Hey, where'd you put 616 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 6: those headphones? Is the guitar player right handed or left handed? 617 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. 618 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 6: Well you should have thought about that, because now the 619 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 6: neck of their guitar is hitting their headphone box. 620 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 5: Put it on the other. 621 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 6: You know, you learn every time it's like, how can 622 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 6: I be invisible where people don't even all they're thinking 623 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 6: about is playing music. So the technical challenges are probably 624 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 6: very real in an environment like this, But it would 625 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 6: be boring in a book for the general public to 626 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 6: talk about the electrical power standards of you know, coastal 627 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 6: France in the early nineteen seventies. But I guarantee you 628 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 6: it's not like some like transformer isolated and they took 629 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 6: a power to tap off of like the railroad or 630 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 6: something like that. 631 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, I read the books. I'm a listener of the 632 00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 5: podcast saying this. 633 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, legal, highly dangerous, illegal and dangerous. So yeah, it's 634 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 6: like there's some tremendous technical challenges to making it so 635 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 6: at the moment that everybody has finished their decadent meal, 636 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 6: wine and uh mind altering, uh creativity enhancing, we hope, substances, 637 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 6: it's like you. 638 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 5: Just have every all that shit just has to work. 639 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 5: So yeah, it's it would. 640 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 6: Have been easier to do it in the studio, but 641 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 6: it's a better record the way they exactly the way 642 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 6: they did it. 643 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: I heard a really funny Instagram video from John Mayer, 644 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: who I'm not the hugest fan of, but like, he's 645 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: a great guitarist and this stuff with the Dead is fantastic, 646 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: and he's obviously a bit of a workhorse, and he said, 647 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: the biggest creativity killer is the dreaded dinner. 648 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 4: The dinner. 649 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, so you're you're you're working, things aren't happening. Okay, 650 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: you take a break and now things are popping and 651 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: it's about four o'clock and you know it's going to 652 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: take like four hours to really harness this energy. But 653 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: then the dreaded dinner and this was built in. This 654 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: is Keith, the most chaotic host. The dinner was more 655 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: important to him than the record. How with that being 656 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: the case, did they manage to harness that creativity and 657 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: make such a magical piece of work. It just seems impossible, 658 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: it seems and your your your whole point about the 659 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: invisibility of the you know, the engineers, that seems impossible. 660 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: It's almost like they were running a surveillance detail on 661 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: this basement and somehow it worked. 662 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 4: I just don't get it. 663 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: It's wild to me, as as a producer, knowing the 664 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: challenges even in a you know, accessible studio situation that's controlled, 665 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: that you you have control of and you know where 666 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: everything is, how could they have possibly gotten what they got? 667 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 6: Well, with all due respect to John Mayer, and I 668 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 6: do want to say, like, in a straight fight between 669 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 6: the recorded catalog of John Mayer and Keith Richards, I'm 670 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 6: putting my money on Keith. There are millions and millions 671 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 6: of people who would disagree. At the end of the podcast, 672 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 6: we can give my mailing address if you're care to 673 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 6: send me an angry letter about that. But I don't 674 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 6: care the but But the other thing is is I 675 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 6: think that with Keith, you know who I've never met, 676 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 6: don't know him, just know him through his music. But 677 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 6: it's less about the dinner and more about the vibe. 678 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 6: And uh, you know, Exile Main Street is just a vibe. 679 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 6: And all these great records I've referenced that are like 680 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 6: these Grower records are a vibe. Man, They're all a 681 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 6: They're not like other things. And with Keith, it's like, yeah, 682 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 6: the dinner, the celebration, all the Yeah, it's you do 683 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 6: that stuff on other records, and it's going to be 684 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 6: a bummer and you're right, no, it's going to be like, 685 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 6: oh my god, it is one step forward, two steps back. 686 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 6: But for some reason, it you know, it just all works. 687 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 6: It's Keith's record, it's his vibe. 688 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 2: I'm somebody who's written a song in their lives, let 689 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,919 Speaker 2: alone produced a session or overseen a recording. But I'm 690 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 2: fascinated by the role that problem solving plays in music 691 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 2: and making music. There was a great interview that Paul 692 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: Simon gave to Dick Cabot in the seventies where he 693 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 2: plays a semi completed I think it's still crazy after 694 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 2: all these years, and he gets to the point where 695 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 2: he stopped writing, and he goes through all the different 696 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 2: choices and options that he could take, and it's so interesting. 697 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: He breaks it down like a logic puzzle. And I 698 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 2: had never to me songs are sorcery and they just 699 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 2: come out of you know, thin air, people from these 700 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 2: Beatis who are capable of conjuring that up. And that 701 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 2: was just so fascinating to me to see them. I mean, 702 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 2: I guess get Back and the Beatles stuff was sort 703 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: of a similar thing, where you see the problems that 704 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 2: they're up against. I'm just curious how much of that 705 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 2: is normal, how much of making music is problem solving? 706 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 5: Man? 707 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 6: I think you know, it's a split that there's some 708 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 6: of it that really is this guy. 709 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 5: I've worked with artists who have played me. 710 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 6: I mean, like the song is like a fit of 711 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 6: inspiration for myself. I know, there's some that are just 712 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 6: simply it just comes out, like the first time you 713 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 6: sit down and play it or sing it, it's like, oh, man, 714 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 6: change like two words and you got this. I mean, 715 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 6: it's like a finished thing. At an artist who a 716 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 6: great song, and he told me that he dreamed about 717 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 6: another artist with whom me and this guy are both friends, 718 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 6: was singing this song at a festival, and then he 719 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 6: woke up and remembered the song and then went through 720 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 6: the guy's catalog and realized, no, no, no, I just dreamed 721 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 6: this song. 722 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 5: And it's interesting because it kind of sounds a bit 723 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 5: like the other guy and it's a. 724 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 6: But then the other thing is like, yeah, the problem 725 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 6: solving aspect of how do we get out of this song? 726 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 6: I mean, on exile on Main Street, you know, the 727 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 6: overwhelming percentage of the songs off fade out, there's not 728 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 6: a way out, you know. I mean, there's some there's 729 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 6: a couple that do that end, but it's true, like 730 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 6: a lot of their catalog anyway, there's a few famous 731 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 6: ones that end brown Sugar, can't you hear me knocking? 732 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 5: That actually end chattered ends. 733 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 6: But if you think about the end of most of 734 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 6: the Stones big hits, most of them fade out, and 735 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 6: Exile certainly is like a classic like fade out album. 736 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 6: And so that's one way to solve a problem is 737 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 6: we don't have an ending well faded you know, and 738 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 6: Glynn faded out. And the other is Keith having this 739 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 6: wealth of music and then hey, Mick write some lyrics 740 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 6: for this. So yeah, and there are things where it's 741 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 6: just like trying to find out, like this song could 742 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 6: go one way and get Back was an incredible view 743 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 6: of people doing that, especially like the song get Back, 744 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 6: where it's going to be like a protest song and 745 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 6: then as soon as you hear it's. 746 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 5: A little cringey and it's like, oh, thank god they 747 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 5: didn't do that with it. 748 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 6: And uh but like a great artist, you know, and 749 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 6: in a case of Exile, certainly, it's like what they 750 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 6: how they solved it turned out to be the right way. 751 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 5: It's funny. 752 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 6: There was a there's a you hear outtakes of things 753 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 6: that usually artists go there's one Exile outtake alternate version 754 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 6: that uh, I think might I like, I might like 755 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 6: more than the record version, which I've got some bootleg 756 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 6: of like some alternate take of Stop Breaking Down that 757 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 6: is just fucking awesome. It's just like a little rougher 758 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 6: that is it, though it needs to be then the 759 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 6: other one. But I talked to somebody else who has 760 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,879 Speaker 6: a copy of the same bootleg and they're both like, God, 761 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 6: that one thing is so good, but it's in But 762 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 6: what I'm but in general, it's not radically different than 763 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 6: the other one. What I'm saying is that in general, 764 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 6: when you listen to the outtakes of great artists, you 765 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 6: realize now they did it right at the time. It's 766 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 6: like yeah, and it's funny. There's not outtakes and other mediums. 767 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 6: It's like there's not like there's not like an alternate 768 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 6: Mona Lisa out there that everybody says is better than 769 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 6: the real one. 770 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 5: But that's rock bands for you. 771 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 3: That's what I find so interesting. 772 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 2: I'm a huge Beatles guy, and I love the anthologies, 773 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 2: all all three double discs for that reason. I mean 774 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 2: hearing all the different versions of you know stuff like 775 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 2: I'm Looking Through You, where they did a completely different 776 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 2: and on the new the new Revolver box set from 777 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: last year, they had like a it sounds like something 778 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 2: from Nuggets, like a garage band version of gott to 779 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 2: Gate in the life pre horn section, and it's so good. 780 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 2: It's but I mean, but you understand, Oh yeah, you 781 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 2: need that. You need that insane like where you're shoving 782 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 2: the mics down, the bells and the trumpets and everything 783 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 2: to get that in your face stack sound. But yeah, 784 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 2: it's fascinating to see the I don't want to call missteps, 785 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 2: but the the detours, if you will, before they landed 786 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 2: on the idea that you know ninety percent of the 787 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 2: time was the right one. 788 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, I you know, as a kid used to wonder 789 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,879 Speaker 6: what would happen if Dorothy had gone down the other road? 790 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 1: That's well and the whole the whole fade out thing too, 791 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: makes me think that likely probably on other records of Theirs, 792 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:38,760 Speaker 1: but this one in particular. 793 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 4: These were jams, right, Like can you talk about that? 794 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: How you harness those kinds of jams and figure out 795 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: which one's the right one and like the one that's 796 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: going to give you the best chance of like you know, 797 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: making it really shine with overdubs, like you know, this 798 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: is what you would call I guess basic tracks. 799 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 4: But like if they're jams and you're writing it on 800 00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,240 Speaker 4: the fly. How do you know when to stop? 801 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: I guess it's a key thing, But I'm just you know, 802 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,720 Speaker 1: from your perspective as a producer, how is that process 803 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: of making a record different from coming in where everyone's 804 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: got their parts, everything's ready to go, everyone knows what 805 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: they're doing, and that's the record. 806 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 6: The building a record from jams is can be great 807 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 6: if you've got if you've got you know, a great lyricist, 808 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 6: you know, to turn it kind of you know, make 809 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 6: it into something. But as far as like that kind 810 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,919 Speaker 6: of thing making decisions is that, I don't. I think 811 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 6: nobody probably has done this more than the Stones that 812 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 6: I know of, because some girls, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo 813 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 6: You all seem to have been like to some degree 814 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 6: contain a lot of like jams that something was gone 815 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 6: back and. 816 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,839 Speaker 5: Added to later on. 817 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,959 Speaker 6: There's this other great bootleg called Sympathy for the Disco 818 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 6: that has a bunch of like mid seventies like dirty 819 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 6: kind of dance Stones playing these like dirty kind of 820 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 6: danceable jams in the studio, a lot of which turn 821 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,879 Speaker 6: into miss You and Emotional Rescue and dance part two 822 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 6: and all these things. But it's interesting because you hear 823 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 6: this thing and it's like, oh man, they have like 824 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,479 Speaker 6: all these jams and managed to like pluck a few 825 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 6: songs out of them, and other ones are just just that, 826 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 6: just a jam with So to answer your question, Noel, 827 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 6: I think that it's a process of just knowing. I mean, 828 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 6: it's a thing of like I mean, it's like picking 829 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 6: which cabinet handles you want in your kitchen. It's just like, yeah, 830 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 6: we like these, we vibe out with these, and let's 831 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 6: try to make something with these songs and see see 832 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 6: where we get with this. Or you're playing things and 833 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 6: your singer is kind of coming up with something, or 834 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 6: you know, you've got who knows, you've got Bobby Keys 835 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 6: and Jim Price sitting around and they go, what if we, 836 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 6: you know, added a little thing on it. Just it 837 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,839 Speaker 6: just makes it a more collaborative experience, and as long 838 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 6: as you can find your way to a song through that, 839 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 6: you know you've really got something. And it's a much 840 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 6: more jazz approach. It's much more be bop approach than 841 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 6: mainstream pop music. It's interesting. It's like a bebop approach 842 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 6: that was like crafted into the wildly popular music via 843 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 6: decadent meals and heroin. 844 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 2: I mean, the other thing that blows my mind is 845 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 2: in a post pro tools world, that this was all 846 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 2: done to tape. I think sixteen track in the mobile studio. 847 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 5: I think, yes, the greatest format of all time. 848 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 2: You've said that in an interview that working to tape 849 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 2: is actually the fastest way to work, and I wanted 850 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 2: to ask you more about that. 851 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 3: That was interesting to me. 852 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 6: It's the fastest way to work because you run out 853 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 6: of options. I mean, you know, the Wizard of Oz, 854 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 6: you know, I just made you know, said, what if 855 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 6: you pick the other road? What if there was like 856 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 6: sixteen or twenty or one hundred yellow brick roads. It's 857 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 6: it's I mean, pro tools digital recording is amazing. It 858 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 6: offers unlimited possibilities. It offers a world of creative opportunities 859 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 6: that simply didn't exist fifty years ago. However, creatively, it 860 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 6: also if you live in a world of command z, 861 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 6: you constantly can undo, you can always go backwards, you 862 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:57,359 Speaker 6: can fix anything easily. You can make it sound like 863 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 6: somebody can almost play their instrument. And when you do 864 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 6: it on tape, there's a few factors of work. Now, 865 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 6: of course you can edit with the razor blade. 866 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 5: I still do this. 867 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 6: I mean I do work on pro tools too. We 868 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 6: have both here, but I still do razor blade editing, 869 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 6: did some not too long ago with somebody. 870 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 5: There is. 871 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,279 Speaker 6: But it but outside of like the sound of the tape, 872 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 6: which is a thing that people, you know, when they 873 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 6: think about tape, they think about the sound difference is 874 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 6: it kind of romanticizes it and it is a great sound. 875 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 6: Much like an Alfred Hitchcock movie in the fifties made 876 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 6: in CinemaScope just looks different. 877 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 5: You know, it's not reality. It just looks great. 878 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 6: It's art reality and that you know, perception is reality, 879 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 6: and you know when you're taking in some artistic work anyway. 880 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 6: But I mean, my driver's license picture doesn't look like 881 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,480 Speaker 6: a renoip and but you know where I'm going with that. 882 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 6: But the create But the reason I say tape is 883 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,239 Speaker 6: faster is that you can't just hit command Z all 884 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 6: the time. You can't just say, Okay, that's the sax solo. 885 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 5: Great. Can I keep it doing another one? Sure? Can 886 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,919 Speaker 5: I keep and do another one? Sure? How about if I. 887 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 6: Do like eighty of these and you like pick through 888 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 6: it and make one. I know how to do that, 889 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 6: and that sucks. What's great is when somebody does something 890 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 6: once and you're just like, wow, okay, okay, listen to that, 891 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,720 Speaker 6: and they come in here they listen to it and say, man, 892 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 6: could I do one more of that? And just like 893 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,919 Speaker 6: see and if the answer is like, man, we're out 894 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 6: of tracks, we can do it, but we've got to 895 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 6: erase something, and then the decision is can I top 896 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 6: it or not? And basically what it does is it 897 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 6: inspires real time performance because you have to. And it 898 00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,799 Speaker 6: is like people who make records now where hey, we're 899 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 6: going to I mean this works for some records, but 900 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 6: for a lot of records it is, hey, we're just 901 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,360 Speaker 6: going to go and like record the drums. And so 902 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 6: what you've got now is three or four other people 903 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 6: and they're playing a part, but they're not really trying 904 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 6: because it's not their keeper part. And the drummer can't 905 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,320 Speaker 6: really do too much because they're not exactly sure what 906 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 6: they're going to be playing with later on. And if 907 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 6: they screw up, the engineer can just like move something 908 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,359 Speaker 6: around and just make it work. And I mean that's 909 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,720 Speaker 6: all fine and good there's people that make amazing records 910 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 6: like that, but I find that in some cases what 911 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 6: you do is you wind up where you can be 912 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 6: long on perfection but awfully short on inspiration. And working 913 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,479 Speaker 6: in tape world, it's all about getting an inspired take 914 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 6: because we got one track left to do this, and 915 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:53,279 Speaker 6: it's going to be like right now, or hey, we're 916 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,279 Speaker 6: going to do some where three of us are going 917 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 6: to sing backup vocals. Okay, nowadays you might have each 918 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 6: person go do the part separately and put them on 919 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,319 Speaker 6: different tracks and you can blend it later and you 920 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:04,879 Speaker 6: can auto tune it and you can fix it. 921 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,280 Speaker 5: No, no, no, you're gonna. 922 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 6: Go stand the two of you are going to stand 923 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 6: in front of one microphone at the bottle of Old Granddad. 924 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 6: And I saw somebody drinking some Old Granddad the other day, 925 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 6: and when I saw I saw him, I was like, oh, man, 926 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,320 Speaker 6: the liquor of Exile on Main Street. 927 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,480 Speaker 5: Excellent choice. I will have you know. 928 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,400 Speaker 6: This was like the This was like at a tailgate 929 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,799 Speaker 6: before like a Georgia football game, and was like, man, 930 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 6: you're getting channeling your inner Mick and Keith. Fortunately, the 931 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 6: person I was hanging out with understood where I was 932 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,600 Speaker 6: coming from. 933 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:40,839 Speaker 5: And uh, but. 934 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, but that's kind of This is my theory on 935 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 6: this is that it forces it forces people just to 936 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 6: be on their game. 937 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 5: If I was to say there's a curb. 938 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 6: Outside my studio here and it's you know about you know, 939 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,359 Speaker 6: six inches wide, right whatever the legal curb with this, 940 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:05,040 Speaker 6: let's call at six inches wide, and said, hey, walk 941 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 6: down that thing, and you're like four inches above the ground. 942 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 5: You just walk right down there. You wouldn't even think 943 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,439 Speaker 5: twice about it. We'd just have a little chit chat 944 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 5: while you're doing it. 945 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 6: If that same thing was thirty feet in the air, 946 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 6: it's a different mindset to walk down it. You really 947 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,919 Speaker 6: don't want to slip up. In my opinion, we could 948 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,840 Speaker 6: also have like thousands of angry letters about that. Everybody's 949 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,239 Speaker 6: got an opinion, but that's mine. 950 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:31,359 Speaker 4: You know. 951 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 1: Athens is a very special place to me and obviously 952 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,400 Speaker 1: to you and lots of people who are huge fans 953 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: of music in indie rock, whatever you want to call it. 954 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,080 Speaker 1: There's an incredible documentary that just came out about the 955 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,319 Speaker 1: Elephant six Recording Company, some of whom members of that 956 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 1: group have recorded at your studio, and it's interesting when 957 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,200 Speaker 1: you talk about groups or collectives or artists that really 958 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,759 Speaker 1: go hard into the whole tape thing, and you know 959 00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 1: the idea of you, oh, we're out of tracks. You 960 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 1: have to bounce down like the Beatles, I think only 961 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,720 Speaker 1: had four for some of their records and then eight. 962 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,279 Speaker 4: A little bit later. 963 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,320 Speaker 1: Or to get the level of depth and stacked sounds, 964 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: they had to dub things from one reel to another, 965 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, bounce things destructively, meaning that you lost what 966 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: was on there. I always wondered if they made copies, 967 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,319 Speaker 1: but that's a question for maybe a nerdier conversation. But 968 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,840 Speaker 1: the Elephant six documentary, to me, was one of the 969 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: best kind of I don't know, artifacts, like of pure 970 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:34,720 Speaker 1: creativity using the technology to your advantage as a creative 971 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 1: tool rather than. 972 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:36,360 Speaker 4: Like a crutch. 973 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,160 Speaker 1: And I think that's something that is really coming around more, 974 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,720 Speaker 1: even certain like audio interfaces like you know, Universal Audio 975 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: makes the most popular audio interface around now, the Apollo 976 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,239 Speaker 1: and various versions of that. But built within that there 977 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,560 Speaker 1: is a kind of finite way, like the way that 978 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,400 Speaker 1: the thing processes the plugins that this company makes. It's 979 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,280 Speaker 1: a company that's been making hardware, you know, audio, outboard 980 00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:00,359 Speaker 1: audio studio. 981 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:01,480 Speaker 4: Gear for generations. 982 00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: You can only use so many and then you run 983 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,080 Speaker 1: out of processing power. And there's something to that that 984 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,920 Speaker 1: I think is inspiring where it So, I know I 985 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: can't have fifty of these. I know I can't have 986 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, indefinite numbers of these. So it does feel 987 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,719 Speaker 1: like there's almost a backlash, not a backlash, but a 988 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,919 Speaker 1: return to that type of thinking that you're describing in 989 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,040 Speaker 1: modern production. Obviously, it's a very rich and varied world 990 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: out there in terms of what kind of music there is, 991 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 1: But can you talk a little bit about how maybe 992 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,960 Speaker 1: the esthetic or the kind of inspiration of an exile 993 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,400 Speaker 1: on Main Street type record is now maybe a little 994 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,239 Speaker 1: bit more in the forefront in terms of the way 995 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,239 Speaker 1: people are making records, and maybe limitations are a good thing. 996 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:45,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it does. 997 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:51,680 Speaker 6: I mean I think it has certainly has an influence. 998 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,240 Speaker 6: I think that mostly like things like working like records 999 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 6: like exal Mator, everybody wants to make records like that. 1000 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 6: I mean not everybody, but like rock bands, it's like 1001 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,799 Speaker 6: they want to make records like these old records. And 1002 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:10,399 Speaker 6: I think a lot of people, though, don't realize the 1003 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:16,400 Speaker 6: benefits of limitations until they experience it. And I just 1004 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,640 Speaker 6: had a conversation with an artist who has made a 1005 00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 6: few records so far, and their records are good, their 1006 00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:29,360 Speaker 6: songs are good, but it's a little more modern and sterile, 1007 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 6: I think than they want it to be. They're description 1008 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 6: of their own recordings, and I've been encouraging them to 1009 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 6: just like, you should try doing this thing on a 1010 00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,160 Speaker 6: tape machine where you can where it's like, you just 1011 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 6: can't sterilize it. 1012 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:45,880 Speaker 5: It's not one of the options, you know. 1013 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:52,040 Speaker 6: And it's funny because they want to do it, but 1014 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,360 Speaker 6: they're also a little like, well, we like to be 1015 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 6: able to fix everything. I was like, well, you know, 1016 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,279 Speaker 6: you can't be a vegetarian that each stay. I mean, 1017 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,440 Speaker 6: you're gonna have to pick you can. You know it's 1018 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,239 Speaker 6: you don't want to be uh, you just have to 1019 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,480 Speaker 6: buy in and accept the reality of it that you 1020 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 6: just have to be right in to the reality that 1021 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,600 Speaker 6: in a rock and roll records sometimes the wrong thing 1022 00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:21,439 Speaker 6: is the right thing. 1023 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,560 Speaker 2: Do you feel that exile impacted you more as a 1024 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 2: as a producer or a. 1025 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 6: Songwriter as a producer, and the reason is that as 1026 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:43,239 Speaker 6: a songwriter, I want to write from my own inspiration 1027 00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 6: number one, number two. Every time in my life that 1028 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 6: I've tried to write a song that would be like 1029 00:55:55,719 --> 00:56:00,239 Speaker 6: a Rolling Stone song or a Beatles song here, plus 1030 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,880 Speaker 6: when you're young and you have like really obvious influences. 1031 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,320 Speaker 5: I listen to those songs now and just all. 1032 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:11,879 Speaker 6: I hear is like, this is like if The Clash 1033 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:16,560 Speaker 6: made their worst song of all time, this song that 1034 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,440 Speaker 6: I just wrote is like a song that would not 1035 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,440 Speaker 6: be on eggsile on Main Street if it will have 1036 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 6: like forty songs. Because again it's like you're it's not 1037 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:31,319 Speaker 6: you know, you're trying, you're aping somebody else's stuff. But 1038 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 6: as a producer, yeah, because of the tangle and there's 1039 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,319 Speaker 6: a lot of records I've worked on. If you listen 1040 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,600 Speaker 6: to them, it's like there's just this like tangled stew 1041 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,239 Speaker 6: of guitars and it's and it's like or whatever, and 1042 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 6: it's like I just dig that sound. The minimalist approach 1043 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,799 Speaker 6: of micing things up, which I kind of came to 1044 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,759 Speaker 6: via my first recording format of my own. Well, I 1045 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,560 Speaker 6: mean it was like one microphone into a quartering state 1046 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,560 Speaker 6: machine when I was a kid. 1047 00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:04,799 Speaker 5: But by the time I was like in. 1048 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:09,240 Speaker 6: College and had like a fancy four track cassette recorder 1049 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,280 Speaker 6: that it's like, yeah, I can use like two mics 1050 00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,600 Speaker 6: when a drum kit, and then I gotta that's I 1051 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,640 Speaker 6: just got to move them around and make it sound good. 1052 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:21,920 Speaker 6: And but just over time also an understanding of I'm 1053 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,400 Speaker 6: not going to go into like a deep science nerd here, 1054 00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 6: you know, deep dive about phase relationships and sound, but basically, uh, 1055 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 6: the more and more mic microphones you add to a 1056 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,320 Speaker 6: sound source, the greater the likelihood of some sort of 1057 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 6: cancelation of frequencies. And so I've just always veered towards 1058 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:50,000 Speaker 6: these relatively simple mic techniques. And then over time when 1059 00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,960 Speaker 6: I would see and then I would hear Miguel like 1060 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 6: that sounds like drums to me, that sounds good, and 1061 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,880 Speaker 6: then later on I see these pictures of them, like 1062 00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,560 Speaker 6: recording Excell on Main Street and realize, Man, I have 1063 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 6: stump asked backwards into the way that they did those records, 1064 00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,960 Speaker 6: and have realized that's because that's what sound normal in 1065 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,080 Speaker 6: my head. Because I had, especially in my formative years, 1066 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:13,760 Speaker 6: like I talked about getting a copy of the whole 1067 00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 6: album when I was in my freshman year in college, 1068 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,959 Speaker 6: and so by the time I'm a freshman in college, 1069 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,000 Speaker 6: like I'm already very actively playing in bands and recording 1070 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,080 Speaker 6: and telling people that I was a record producer because 1071 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,160 Speaker 6: I believed I was one because I had a four 1072 00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:33,880 Speaker 6: track cassette recorder. So but like the vibe of that 1073 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,800 Speaker 6: record I think is just so ingrained in me, and 1074 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 6: I've also used it as an example in the studio, 1075 00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 6: as I probably did with Malwich Puppy is why you 1076 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 6: knew that I love it so much, which is try 1077 00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,480 Speaker 6: convincing people the thing I just said a few minutes ago, 1078 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,919 Speaker 6: which is that sometimes the wrong thing is the right thing, 1079 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,120 Speaker 6: and sometimes just like somebody is like, well, that's not 1080 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,439 Speaker 6: what I planned on doing, It's like yeah, but like listen. 1081 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:57,440 Speaker 5: To what it sounds like. 1082 00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,440 Speaker 6: It's like, I know, as fuck up, but it's great 1083 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,360 Speaker 6: and there is that, you know, there's there's that, And 1084 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 6: I just think that that has been like ingrained in 1085 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:14,240 Speaker 6: me of listening to these records like that, and maybe 1086 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,160 Speaker 6: there's also something about it to me as a producer 1087 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:23,080 Speaker 6: that makes it seem more reachable, that is, if you've 1088 00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:28,120 Speaker 6: got true inspiration, Like I've always been more into greatness 1089 00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 6: than perfection, and I think that people make a mistake 1090 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:36,000 Speaker 6: between the two and they're not the same. That uh, 1091 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,080 Speaker 6: you know, greats never great's not always perfect, and perfect 1092 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:48,400 Speaker 6: certainly is rarely great. And it's i mean, an airbrushed 1093 00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:55,320 Speaker 6: photo of a human being versus the natural beauty of 1094 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 6: a human being. 1095 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 5: It's like it's just like a different you know, it's 1096 00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:59,680 Speaker 5: a it's a different thing. 1097 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,760 Speaker 6: And to me, Exeler mainStreet is just like totally like 1098 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,240 Speaker 6: the sound of it is just like a totally real thing. 1099 01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,760 Speaker 6: The production of it, the fact that it's kind of loose, 1100 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,880 Speaker 6: the fact that it's not all the same, the fact that, 1101 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,840 Speaker 6: like different people play different instruments, the fact that Jimmy 1102 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,600 Speaker 6: Miller not only plays the drums on Happy, Jimmy Miller 1103 01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,400 Speaker 6: just plays the drums on the jury ending of Tumbling 1104 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,640 Speaker 6: Dice because Charlie just couldn't quite get the timing. There's 1105 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,360 Speaker 6: a lot of people who would say, like, well, that's 1106 01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,440 Speaker 6: gonna sound strange, we can't do that. But in the 1107 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,280 Speaker 6: mindset of these guys in the basement making this records, 1108 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:31,840 Speaker 6: like hey, give me. 1109 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,080 Speaker 5: The I just want to take the sticks and just 1110 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 5: show me what you have in mind. 1111 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:38,000 Speaker 6: And then they listen back and I'm you know, dramatic 1112 01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 6: recreation of my own imagination here. 1113 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,400 Speaker 5: But it's uh, you know, it sounds good. I just 1114 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,439 Speaker 5: keep it. Want Charlie mind. I don't think he's in mind. 1115 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 5: That's fine, it's funny. 1116 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,520 Speaker 6: I've actually had that happen here working on a dexa 1117 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,640 Speaker 6: teen's record ride was the drummer had gone to the 1118 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:54,080 Speaker 6: beer store and they were like, what do you think 1119 01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:55,800 Speaker 6: he should do here? And I played this little part 1120 01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,080 Speaker 6: on this song. I was like, I think it like 1121 01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,400 Speaker 6: something kind of like that. And I came the control 1122 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,240 Speaker 6: room and they're like, we're keeping that. I was like, well, 1123 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 6: he could play it himself. No, no, no, he's we don't. 1124 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,360 Speaker 6: He wouldn't want to waste the time. And it sounds file. 1125 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,360 Speaker 5: Let's just use that. I was like, okay, is that 1126 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:11,000 Speaker 5: own thing? 1127 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:18,200 Speaker 2: Yes, there's a blog called Welcome no called Don't call 1128 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,520 Speaker 2: it Nothing, and they love Exile on Main Street. And 1129 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,480 Speaker 2: they went and they for every track on Exile on 1130 01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 2: Main Street they put a song that they really liked 1131 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,040 Speaker 2: and that they thought was like a compliment to the 1132 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:36,120 Speaker 2: exile track. And for Sweet Black Angel, they took own 1133 01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,760 Speaker 2: Thing and they had that as the correlating song. 1134 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,320 Speaker 3: I got to send you the link to it. 1135 01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,720 Speaker 6: So this is arguably the greatest moment of my entire life, 1136 01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,680 Speaker 6: knowing that somebody thinks that something that I had something 1137 01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:52,560 Speaker 6: to do with somehow is worthy of comparison with exile mains. 1138 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,200 Speaker 5: I'll put it in fourth place behind my three children. 1139 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,960 Speaker 6: But other than the three of them, this moment clearly 1140 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,680 Speaker 6: that owned things that I played drums onto and I 1141 01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,920 Speaker 6: had to play in Sweet Dog's drums or he's lefty, 1142 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,080 Speaker 6: so I had to put a brick on the high 1143 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,280 Speaker 6: hat pedal to hold it in place, and then had 1144 01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,840 Speaker 6: to play it backwards and played it once and then 1145 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,320 Speaker 6: Elliott and John Smith when I came in to the 1146 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:16,040 Speaker 6: control room were. 1147 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,320 Speaker 4: Like, dude, don't change it. 1148 01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,560 Speaker 6: It's perfect, And I was like, I'm again paraphrasing them. 1149 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 5: I'm not suggesting they sound like that. 1150 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:26,160 Speaker 6: But anyway, Yeah, that's uh, that's a remarkable moment in 1151 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 6: my life. Check that one bucket list. All right, Well, 1152 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:31,960 Speaker 6: f and anvil falls on my head when I walk 1153 01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:33,240 Speaker 6: outside the day, I'm gonna be cool. 1154 01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,640 Speaker 3: I will I will send that along. No, it's a 1155 01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 3: cool piece. 1156 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,600 Speaker 2: Amazing, I mean, speaking of influences, I mean with this 1157 01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,959 Speaker 2: this interview is going to follow an episode that's set 1158 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 2: in New Orleans where I'm at. Erdigan throws a party 1159 01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,200 Speaker 2: for the Stones and he he hires a bunch of 1160 01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,040 Speaker 2: blues legends to play for them. He hires a Professor 1161 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:57,400 Speaker 2: long Hair, who else, Roosevelt Psychs, Snook Egg Glynn, I think, 1162 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,120 Speaker 2: I think looks one more. And the Stones loved it 1163 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,040 Speaker 2: because I'm sure to them they saw it as you know, 1164 01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,520 Speaker 2: paying their respects to the people who really made them, 1165 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:10,440 Speaker 2: made the music that made them want to make music. 1166 01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,760 Speaker 2: But some of the people that we talked to today 1167 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,520 Speaker 2: who are also at that party, admitted that it was 1168 01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,400 Speaker 2: kind of an awkward pairing between these you know, authentic 1169 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,040 Speaker 2: blues men and these white kids who made a fortune 1170 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,920 Speaker 2: off of their sounds, and that led us down this 1171 01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 2: whole really interesting discussion of appreciation versus appropriation. I was curious, 1172 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,560 Speaker 2: did the Stones lead you to seek out blues artists 1173 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,600 Speaker 2: like Holland Woolf for Muddy Waters or Professor long Hair 1174 01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:38,120 Speaker 2: for that matter. 1175 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, A lot of music I did listen I 1176 01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:47,120 Speaker 6: listened to as a kid absolutely sent me back to 1177 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,560 Speaker 6: check out older blues guys. Because I would read books about, 1178 01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,160 Speaker 6: you know, all the English classic rock guys. It's all 1179 01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 6: Elvis and American blues guys. I knew about Elvis obviously, 1180 01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,000 Speaker 6: the Allman Brothers, same thing. 1181 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,680 Speaker 5: It's like. And so, you know, growing up in the South, 1182 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,080 Speaker 5: certainly huge presence on the radio here. 1183 01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,440 Speaker 6: That all these guys that was their stuff. And you 1184 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:18,720 Speaker 6: read these books about uh uh Mick and Keith as 1185 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,760 Speaker 6: teenagers trade you know, it's like he's got the newest 1186 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,760 Speaker 6: you know record by you know, Wolf or Muddy or 1187 01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,200 Speaker 6: somebody you know and John Lee Hook or whatever, and 1188 01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,800 Speaker 6: it's and so yeah, absolutely made me go back and 1189 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 6: check it out, and which you know, definitely led me 1190 01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,840 Speaker 6: to halland Wolf, who is you know, that's my favorite 1191 01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:45,000 Speaker 6: of that of those guys. And uh, but knowing there 1192 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,040 Speaker 6: that the influence and the fact that it's so interesting 1193 01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 6: to me that early on, like the Stones didn't uh like, 1194 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:54,920 Speaker 6: we're not a rock band, We're. 1195 01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:57,280 Speaker 5: R and B group. 1196 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:02,800 Speaker 6: And then it's really it's interesting. It's like by the 1197 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:08,200 Speaker 6: Jimmy Miller era to me, is the beginning of they 1198 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,480 Speaker 6: just sound like them. I mean, the mid sixties psychedelic 1199 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,520 Speaker 6: records totally sound like them, but they also are of 1200 01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,360 Speaker 6: the time, right, and all their records are kind of 1201 01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,480 Speaker 6: of the time. But Exile Main Street is a thing 1202 01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,680 Speaker 6: that seems like it's of the time now because of 1203 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:28,200 Speaker 6: all this other stuff that came after it. But there's 1204 01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:33,160 Speaker 6: nothing before it that is really that. I mean, the 1205 01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:34,800 Speaker 6: only thing that kind of leads up to that is 1206 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,120 Speaker 6: other Rolling Stones records. I mean, by that time, it 1207 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:41,080 Speaker 6: is like the Blues Lane, the R and B Lane, 1208 01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,960 Speaker 6: the Sixties Lane. It's like all they've all merged onto 1209 01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:50,800 Speaker 6: the Rolling Stone, Rolling Stones Freeway and I Keith and 1210 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,840 Speaker 6: have just become like its own thing. 1211 01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,440 Speaker 2: It's just interesting now to consider the perception of these 1212 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,440 Speaker 2: British bands like the Stones and the Beatles, who were 1213 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,400 Speaker 2: very vocal about their influences. I mean, the Beatles came 1214 01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,400 Speaker 2: to America in sixty four. There's the famous Masles Brothers 1215 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,280 Speaker 2: footage of them calling into radio stations and requesting Marvin 1216 01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,800 Speaker 2: Gay and Laron Etz. They're not requesting their own songs, 1217 01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:14,960 Speaker 2: they want to hear the music that again made them 1218 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,760 Speaker 2: want to make music. And at the time this was 1219 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:23,400 Speaker 2: considered very you know, progressive. But these days, you know, 1220 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,080 Speaker 2: these white kids from England covering a miracle song or 1221 01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,400 Speaker 2: covering a Cherelle song or something is tantam out to 1222 01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,640 Speaker 2: theft in a lot of ways, and you think of 1223 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,080 Speaker 2: the Stones with the early Willie Dixon songs and Chuck 1224 01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:39,600 Speaker 2: Berry covers and stuff. Robert Greenfield, who's the Rolling Stone 1225 01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,280 Speaker 2: magazine journalists that we were talking to on this show, 1226 01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,720 Speaker 2: and we based most of it on his book STP. 1227 01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,640 Speaker 2: When we talked to him last summer for the interviews 1228 01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,320 Speaker 2: for this show, he remarked many times about how little 1229 01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,800 Speaker 2: musical crossover there was in seventy one, seventy two, seventy three, 1230 01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,800 Speaker 2: at least in a mainstream sense, between black music and 1231 01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,960 Speaker 2: white music. I was wondering if you would agree with that. 1232 01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,920 Speaker 5: How old is Robert. He's older. He's older than me. 1233 01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,040 Speaker 3: Were in forty seven. 1234 01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:12,280 Speaker 5: I think, oh yeah, way older. 1235 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,200 Speaker 6: Okay, So he's got I mean as in nineteen seventy two, 1236 01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,600 Speaker 6: Roberts twenty five and I was about, you know eight, 1237 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,680 Speaker 6: about to turn nine. So he's got a much clearer 1238 01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:27,040 Speaker 6: perspective of this than me. I mean, there is I mean, 1239 01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,920 Speaker 6: on AM radio in Atlanta, there's a cross you know, 1240 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,480 Speaker 6: it's like Motown and there and rock and Roller on 1241 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:42,000 Speaker 6: the same station. But there's not a ton of you know, 1242 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,520 Speaker 6: I mean, there's like there's not a ton of like 1243 01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,480 Speaker 6: of crossover in terms of people working together. When you 1244 01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,840 Speaker 6: hear the stories about the Beatles and Jimmy Hendrix partying 1245 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,280 Speaker 6: and you know, going to record you know in the 1246 01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:59,160 Speaker 6: middle of the night, which is amazing, the Stones and uh, 1247 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,480 Speaker 6: you know you see the Stones on you know, playing 1248 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:07,480 Speaker 6: with black artists, but there's really not nearly the crossover. 1249 01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,280 Speaker 6: Of course, the Stones, I guess it's maybe this seventy 1250 01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,920 Speaker 6: five tour that Billy Preston and Olie Brown are on. 1251 01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,960 Speaker 6: But yeah, there's not you know, I mean there's white 1252 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,960 Speaker 6: people making music and there's Black people making music, and 1253 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,719 Speaker 6: there's not a ton of crossover. I mean the record 1254 01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,479 Speaker 6: business there is, you know, there's white guys that work 1255 01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,320 Speaker 6: in the record in the three that work with black artists, 1256 01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,759 Speaker 6: but there's not in you know, the sixties and seventies, 1257 01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:34,920 Speaker 6: but the early seventies but. 1258 01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,400 Speaker 5: Not so much. 1259 01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,960 Speaker 6: And this isn't too like belittle the contribution to people 1260 01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,000 Speaker 6: like John Hammon, who of course you know, signed many 1261 01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:48,720 Speaker 6: black artists and going back to the nineteen thirties, but yeah, 1262 01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,560 Speaker 6: there's not the crossover. And as far as like the 1263 01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:56,480 Speaker 6: uh you know, appropriation versus you know, paying homage to things. 1264 01:08:58,840 --> 01:08:59,519 Speaker 1: That is. 1265 01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,840 Speaker 6: Taking a modern standard and going backward. I mean, there's 1266 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,160 Speaker 6: some things you go backwards in history that are clearly 1267 01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:09,280 Speaker 6: terribly wrong that we're done. 1268 01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:09,800 Speaker 5: We know this. 1269 01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,559 Speaker 6: But there's other things, like saying that people in the 1270 01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:23,200 Speaker 6: sixties that were heavily influenced by black artists shouldn't have 1271 01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:27,679 Speaker 6: done that because its cultural appropriation is taking a twenty 1272 01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 6: first century esthetic and marching backwards sixty years and telling 1273 01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:39,560 Speaker 6: other people they're wrong for something they don't know it's 1274 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,679 Speaker 6: And the influence I mean, and you know, in any 1275 01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,400 Speaker 6: kind of art, you know, influence is good. Now, the 1276 01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,320 Speaker 6: taking of songs from old blueskuys and nobody getting paid 1277 01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,320 Speaker 6: the right money off of it totally wrong, never should 1278 01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:54,759 Speaker 6: have happened. 1279 01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,560 Speaker 5: But you know, people are influenced. 1280 01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:04,439 Speaker 6: By different kinds of u music and it's I understand 1281 01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:08,040 Speaker 6: the sensitivity to it. I appreciate the sensitivity to it. 1282 01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:13,519 Speaker 6: But the Beatles and the Stones made amazing music that 1283 01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:18,599 Speaker 6: was influenced by R and B and soul and older 1284 01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,519 Speaker 6: blues artists that they made great music because they were 1285 01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,320 Speaker 6: influenced by this stuff. And as somebody that loves all 1286 01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,560 Speaker 6: of those things that were original and the things that 1287 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:29,920 Speaker 6: were influenced by it. 1288 01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:33,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, I am. 1289 01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,120 Speaker 6: I mean, I'm glad they were influenced by it because 1290 01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:37,040 Speaker 6: it made great records. 1291 01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,360 Speaker 5: I'm not going to pretend otherwise. 1292 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,120 Speaker 2: Well, talking about the music that influenced the Beatles and 1293 01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,960 Speaker 2: the Stones and specifically Exile on Main Street, where do 1294 01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:52,559 Speaker 2: you see Exile's influence on the future generations Poststones of artists. 1295 01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:57,000 Speaker 2: Would you hear fragments of Exile cropping up on albums 1296 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:57,759 Speaker 2: and artists today? 1297 01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:01,040 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, all all over the place. 1298 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:08,639 Speaker 6: It's there's you know rock, you know, two guitar rock 1299 01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:11,920 Speaker 6: bands like Black Crows for example. You can clearly hear 1300 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,880 Speaker 6: it's like these guys love this record Cheryl Crow. Listen 1301 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:23,360 Speaker 6: to the guitar on If It Makes You Happy Jam, 1302 01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,720 Speaker 6: which is a great song, but you listen to that 1303 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:33,120 Speaker 6: and it's like Cheryl loves the Stones. Obviously when you 1304 01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,920 Speaker 6: hear that that guitar, it's like totally influenced. I mean 1305 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,320 Speaker 6: in a way that's like her tumbling Dice. I mean 1306 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:43,240 Speaker 6: it's like it's this mid tempo swagger with this open 1307 01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:48,519 Speaker 6: tuned guitar lick and this little double stop part that 1308 01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:53,439 Speaker 6: is extremely similar to a song on Rolling Stones album 1309 01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:55,680 Speaker 6: A couple of albums later, but I'll leave that to 1310 01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,800 Speaker 6: the listeners to discern which song it doesn't. Just keep 1311 01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,560 Speaker 6: that inside my brain. But as soon as I heard it, 1312 01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:02,760 Speaker 6: I was like, oh, man, she loves that record as 1313 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,400 Speaker 6: much as I do. I bet she and I are 1314 01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:06,120 Speaker 6: about the same age. I don't know her anything, but 1315 01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,040 Speaker 6: I love that song. But as soon as I heard it, 1316 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:15,599 Speaker 6: I was like, dang, she loves them too. There are 1317 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,639 Speaker 6: my guys to drive by truckers, you know, with whom 1318 01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:19,400 Speaker 6: I've made a zillion records with. 1319 01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,439 Speaker 5: It's patterson Hood. 1320 01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:29,439 Speaker 6: One time, referring to his main partner in crime, Mike 1321 01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,880 Speaker 6: Cooley and myself said, you know, all three of us 1322 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,080 Speaker 6: fancy ourselves to be exhile on main street guys. He said, 1323 01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:37,920 Speaker 6: I really want to be an exile on main street guy, 1324 01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:43,479 Speaker 6: But deep down inside, I'm probably a sticky fingers guy. 1325 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,320 Speaker 5: Patterson being raised in Muscle Souls. His dad owned Muscle 1326 01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:47,240 Speaker 5: Soules down Sound. 1327 01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,160 Speaker 6: His dad has a bunch of amazing black and white 1328 01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:52,719 Speaker 6: snapshots of the stones in the studio recording Brown Sugar 1329 01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:57,760 Speaker 6: and Wild Horses, and you gotta move and about me, 1330 01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,880 Speaker 6: he said, Man, you want to be an exhil main Street. 1331 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,519 Speaker 6: But when I listened to your bands, you probably were 1332 01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,840 Speaker 6: more as a kid, like more of a Let It 1333 01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:06,320 Speaker 6: Bleed guy. I was like, oh man, one of the 1334 01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:10,519 Speaker 6: very first albums I ever owned is uh, Let It Bleed? 1335 01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:13,760 Speaker 6: And he said, but Cooley, he's just an exile on 1336 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:17,280 Speaker 6: main Street guy. And when you listen to Mike Cooley's songs, 1337 01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,800 Speaker 6: if you go through the Drive By Truckers catalog and 1338 01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,400 Speaker 6: listen to three Dimes Down and Shit Shots Count and 1339 01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:29,400 Speaker 6: Gravity's Gone, these songs are like, Okay, that's somebody that 1340 01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:34,360 Speaker 6: writes great songs that's obviously heavily influenced by this album. 1341 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,599 Speaker 6: And I think you hear it. I think you hear 1342 01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,599 Speaker 6: it all over the ways. Blood Can certainly has songs 1343 01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:40,120 Speaker 6: like this too. 1344 01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,160 Speaker 3: You mentioned my last question. 1345 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,720 Speaker 2: You mentioned Alabama muscle showls, like I can't think of 1346 01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,680 Speaker 2: muscle shouls without thinking of the Great Spooner Oldham and 1347 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,320 Speaker 2: album a couple of years back, Love It, Don't Choke 1348 01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,200 Speaker 2: It to Death, which I believe is a quote from 1349 01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,240 Speaker 2: the Great Spooner Oldham h during a session I think 1350 01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:04,360 Speaker 2: with Dry By Truckers. It's such a great succinct ethos 1351 01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:07,880 Speaker 2: for recording. I was wondering if you had any similar 1352 01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,720 Speaker 2: stories from the Stones, from the Stones history that you 1353 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,360 Speaker 2: keep near and dear to your heart, just either stories 1354 01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,719 Speaker 2: from the making of the album, a quote you've heard 1355 01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:18,320 Speaker 2: from Mick er Keith or Jimmy Miller or Andy John's 1356 01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:21,240 Speaker 2: or anybody that is kind of something that's on your 1357 01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:26,800 Speaker 2: personal you know, personal list of credos. 1358 01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:30,679 Speaker 5: Oh, for sure. And it comes from Glenn Johns. 1359 01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:36,040 Speaker 6: I had this incredible Glenn John's interview from a recording 1360 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:39,880 Speaker 6: magazine from about nineteen eighty and Mitch Easter gave me 1361 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,960 Speaker 6: a copy of this because Jay Farrar and I were 1362 01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,759 Speaker 6: mixing wide swing tremolo at the Fidelitorium, Mitch's amazing studio, 1363 01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,720 Speaker 6: North Carolina. And actually it's old location where he used 1364 01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:54,400 Speaker 6: to have a board exactly like this one, and nobody 1365 01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:56,240 Speaker 6: else just listening to this can see that thing. 1366 01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:58,960 Speaker 5: I just patted behind me. But trust me, folks, it's awesome. 1367 01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,519 Speaker 6: He but this article nineteen eighty is at the height 1368 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,280 Speaker 6: of Glenn John's fame. Now in retrospect, we know he 1369 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:12,080 Speaker 6: has the greatest swath of his careers behind him, but 1370 01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:17,200 Speaker 6: it's right now the height of Lebron James fame. In 1371 01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,840 Speaker 6: twenty twenty three is right now, even though at thirty 1372 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:21,559 Speaker 6: eight or thirty nine or whatever, the best years of 1373 01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:25,600 Speaker 6: his basketball play might be behind him. But because we 1374 01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:27,639 Speaker 6: know this legacy and it's the same thing with Glen 1375 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:31,840 Speaker 6: John's in nineteen eighty. He is the only person who's 1376 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,559 Speaker 6: engineered sessions with the Beatles, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, and 1377 01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,879 Speaker 6: the Who kind of like the four horsemen of English 1378 01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:45,400 Speaker 6: classic rock right, but mostly built his reputation by working 1379 01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,400 Speaker 6: with the Stones on virtually all of their records from 1380 01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:53,880 Speaker 6: the mid sixties up through the mid seventies. And he 1381 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,720 Speaker 6: talked about in this interview the fact they asked him 1382 01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,320 Speaker 6: about how long it takes to pull a mix together, and. 1383 01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,080 Speaker 5: He said, usually it takes me. 1384 01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:04,680 Speaker 6: You know, they have about forty five minutes to get 1385 01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:06,800 Speaker 6: us sounding good, and I'm usually done, you know, maybe 1386 01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,080 Speaker 6: about two three hours. And they said, is that how 1387 01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:10,400 Speaker 6: it worked and mixing Stones record? 1388 01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,160 Speaker 5: He goes, yeah, I do my mixing like that, and 1389 01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:13,720 Speaker 5: then Mick and Keith would come in and they would 1390 01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:18,040 Speaker 5: spend about uh two days on the song and then 1391 01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:19,559 Speaker 5: the one that goes on the record is the one 1392 01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,760 Speaker 5: that I did in like two hours. I never lose 1393 01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:23,320 Speaker 5: sight of that. 1394 01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:29,120 Speaker 6: So the advice is print the two hour one, hide it, 1395 01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:31,559 Speaker 6: and then let the band pick one apart for a while, 1396 01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:34,680 Speaker 6: and then when you play them the original one later 1397 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,080 Speaker 6: and they think it sounds better, tell them it's the 1398 01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:37,040 Speaker 6: one they work two days on. 1399 01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:39,200 Speaker 5: Maybe kidding. 1400 01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,160 Speaker 4: Wow, that goes. 1401 01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:46,760 Speaker 1: So counter to the episode where you know it's like 1402 01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:51,160 Speaker 1: them obsessing the snares gotta crack. They sound like dustbin lids, 1403 01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,719 Speaker 1: That's what the Creamfield Robertfield was saying. 1404 01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,320 Speaker 6: But yeah, like the thing is that you obsess over 1405 01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,000 Speaker 6: that stuff when you're recording, you obsessed forget any exactly right, 1406 01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,240 Speaker 6: and you do obsessed over that stuff. But Glenn John's 1407 01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,400 Speaker 6: the guy that has hands on the faders on all 1408 01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:06,080 Speaker 6: these records. 1409 01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:07,839 Speaker 5: That is his approach. 1410 01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:09,920 Speaker 6: And I know people that have worked with Glenn before 1411 01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:15,840 Speaker 6: and they said, like the speed of him making decisions 1412 01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,679 Speaker 6: was incredible, which was like inspiring to me to realize 1413 01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:21,560 Speaker 6: it's okay. 1414 01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:22,080 Speaker 5: To move like that. 1415 01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,640 Speaker 6: Incredible, David, Great, Well, thank you guys, This is so 1416 01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,439 Speaker 6: much fun, Jordan. 1417 01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:34,639 Speaker 5: Pleasure to meeting person Noel. 1418 01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,799 Speaker 6: Always a pleasure to engage with you on the deeper 1419 01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:39,240 Speaker 6: confos about rock and roll, which. 1420 01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:41,439 Speaker 5: We have had many and I'm sure will in the future. 1421 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,559 Speaker 1: Stone's Touring Party is written and hosted by Jordan Runtalk 1422 01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,320 Speaker 1: Co Executives, produced by Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk, Edited 1423 01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:53,040 Speaker 1: and sound designed by Noel Brown and Michael Older June. 1424 01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,559 Speaker 1: Original music composed and performed by Michael Older June and 1425 01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:00,439 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, with additional instruments performed by Chris Suarez, John's 1426 01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:04,200 Speaker 1: Cooper and Josh Thay. Vintage Rolling Stones audio courtesy of 1427 01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,719 Speaker 1: the Robert Greenfield Archive at the Charles Deering McCormick Library 1428 01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:12,639 Speaker 1: of Special Collections in Northwestern University Libraries. Stone's Touring Party 1429 01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:14,360 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio.