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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. The meat Eater Podcast is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging

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Speaker 1: deer stands, or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance

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Speaker 1: apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it

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Speaker 1: out at first light dot com. F I R S

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Speaker 1: T L I T E dot com. Everybody joined today

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Speaker 1: by let me tell you something real quick, So just

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Speaker 1: hang tight, Devin. Just a lot of things going on.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell my main story, which I just told

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell my other stories. So, uh, you don't

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Speaker 1: have a look.

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Speaker 2: You have kids, right, two little girls.

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Speaker 1: Dev od Od Sorry, devn Od's here from b h A.

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Speaker 1: We've met, we're like phone friends, but we haven't met

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Speaker 1: in person till now. He's the he's the Western Policy

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Speaker 1: and Conservation I am doing the intro. He's the Western

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Speaker 1: Policy and Conservation manager at back Country Hunters and Anglers.

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Speaker 1: Devon and I met when I was doing a little

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Speaker 1: article for the La Times about the black black bear

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Speaker 1: management in California, which we're going to speak to today

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Speaker 1: because it's sort of emblematic and indicative of things that

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Speaker 1: happen all around the country. So even if you're not

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Speaker 1: from California, she's listening. I was telling my favorite story

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Speaker 1: in the world, which I don't want to tell just

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Speaker 1: out of respect for the town, but I'll tell this

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Speaker 1: story so respect for the town. Yeah. Everything, here's a

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Speaker 1: weird deal though, man, like a weird like. Listen to

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Speaker 1: what happens to me last night on what was last night? Thursday? Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: on Monday, we're gonna take our little our two little

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Speaker 1: ones to ice cream. But then we changed our mind,

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Speaker 1: and man, they had a fit, a fit.

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Speaker 3: You still call them little ones.

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Speaker 1: There's an older one. There'll always be the younger ones.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you call them. There's like an older one.

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Speaker 3: Little ones are like.

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Speaker 1: The younger ones. There's a ten or twelve And the

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Speaker 1: thing I met him, I don't know what the fifteen

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Speaker 1: was doing. He's got like a girlfriend now and everything,

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Speaker 1: but the ten and twelve, what was he doing? I

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Speaker 1: don't know what he's doing. The ten and twelve. Somehow

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Speaker 1: it was like, we're gonna go to ice cream. Then

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Speaker 1: we renegged, which just pissed them off. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: a bit. That's a great way to piss a kid off.

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Speaker 1: So my wife is going out with her friend at

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Speaker 1: dinner the next night, so she just then says, your

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Speaker 1: dad will take you tomorrow. So now I'm into that.

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Speaker 1: I go down there and they're like, like, when you

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Speaker 1: take a little if you don't have kids, if you

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Speaker 1: take kids the ice cream, you're gonna argue about, like

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Speaker 1: what all cone everybody's gonna have. And I'm going and

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Speaker 1: I make a joke like there's like the little ship

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Speaker 1: and cone, like I don't know what they call it, And

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Speaker 1: I make a joke like do you have They didn't

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Speaker 1: know I was joking, but I'm like, what do you have?

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Speaker 1: Just a mess of my kids? I said, what do

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Speaker 1: you have? That's like a step down from that baby coan.

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Speaker 1: They didn't get the joke. So anyhow, we agree that

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Speaker 1: we're all gonna get the fucking that they're the not

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Speaker 1: that word, We're gonna get the waffle and like so

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Speaker 1: by two little ones, it was just them. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: get they get the waffle cone, and I'm like, I'll

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Speaker 1: have the same thing. They then tell me we're out. Oh,

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Speaker 1: so I now get stuck with the old kind when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would have bought two of those, just to

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Speaker 4: make a point that you can have whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: Check this that that's the pre story. Last night, we

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Speaker 1: go down to the ice cream place. This time it's

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Speaker 1: the two little ones. The other one was getting his

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Speaker 1: head shaved at a party, the older one, the two

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Speaker 1: younger ones, Me, my wife, my two younger ones, my

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Speaker 1: daughter's two friends, my buddy, matt Cook. We're in line.

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Speaker 1: Rosemary hurts you bodies, Matthew, my wife all get that cone,

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Speaker 1: the waffle cone. I'm not kidding you. I ordered. She goes,

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Speaker 1: we're out of those. I'm like, you don't say I

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Speaker 1: said I was here there night and that happened. And

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Speaker 1: my daughter's like, she thinks you're being mean. Something's going

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Speaker 1: on that ice cream place that I don't understand. I

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Speaker 1: need to get to the bottom of it. What I

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Speaker 1: need to do is find someone to come down later

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Speaker 1: and order that cone.

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Speaker 2: See if they're just hiding it from you.

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Speaker 1: There's something fishy at what's that place called Genuine Probably

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Speaker 1: it's right by the elementary school.

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Speaker 2: They got a polaroid with your picture on there that

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Speaker 2: says no cone yee, I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's sweet peas. Genuine Genuine's too. Like you go there,

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Speaker 1: it's tons of people that aren't even in the right

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Speaker 1: demographic to be out for ice cream.

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Speaker 5: Yeah likes ice cream?

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm in the demo because I have children.

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Speaker 1: If you go to Genuine, it's people in their like

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Speaker 1: late twenties, early thirties lined up for ice cream. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: should you people all be lined up for a drink?

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Speaker 5: But that goes back to what I mean. Everybody loves

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Speaker 5: ice cream.

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Speaker 4: It's really good, and drinking culture is endangered.

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Speaker 1: It's like if I go to yoga with my wife

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Speaker 1: and there's a like a dude there, like thirty five

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Speaker 1: whatever there by himself.

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Speaker 3: I'm I was like, you come on, come on, I

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Speaker 3: don't think that.

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Speaker 1: Come on, let's talk straight.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk stream Demographic's an ice cream demographic is not

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Speaker 2: dude there is and like who's not in it?

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Speaker 1: Randal? If I see Randall down getting the ice cream,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna think, like I don't want to say what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but there's also things When you look at me,

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Speaker 4: you'd be like, the guy's squarely in the ice.

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Speaker 1: Cream demographic.

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Speaker 4: Walking around wearing basketball shoes. Yeah, it doesn't really fit

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Speaker 4: in his jeans.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a big government guy, but I don't think

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Speaker 1: I don't think there should be like a like a

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Speaker 1: little card do you get from the government that like

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Speaker 1: says you have business at the ice cream place? And

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Speaker 1: it would be like, like, how old are you? You

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Speaker 1: should be eating a pint.

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Speaker 4: I actually, actually, when I walk into the ice cream place,

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Speaker 4: I like to think that the people behind the counter

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Speaker 4: are thinking, good, finally somebody who knows what they want

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Speaker 4: to look me in the eye.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to fight with the people they came

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Speaker 1: in with over the counter. They don't want to taste

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Speaker 1: of everything.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, actually I'm the one who wants everything.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my wife embarrassed me last night. She sampled

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Speaker 1: two things before she made an order, and I was

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Speaker 1: getting embarrassed by I can't stand that two samples. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna have to ask you.

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Speaker 4: Was the order one of those two or did she

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Speaker 4: order something different?

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Speaker 1: That's settled. That's really embarrassing. Yeah, I was embarrassed.

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Speaker 2: That's when you should have slipped in there and ordered yours.

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Speaker 2: You would have got a cone.

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Speaker 1: She walked out with a waffle, right. But the funny part,

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Speaker 1: this is the main part of the story. Like at

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Speaker 1: the elementary school is right there. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the year, they wheel all the junk, all the kids leave,

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Speaker 1: They just they wheel it outside. I'm not kidding here,

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Speaker 1: like all the lost and found. When they're done, they're done,

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Speaker 1: like a bad breakout. So the playground, like if you want,

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Speaker 1: if you need to outfit a kid the day school ends,

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Speaker 1: go to the playground. It's all out there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, there's some nice clothes in this town, too, real

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Speaker 2: nice clothes.

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Speaker 1: We go down there and my kids like, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: go to the playground. I'm like, nah, man, don't go

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Speaker 1: to the playground. But my wife overrode me, and so

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Speaker 1: we go down to the playground and walk in through

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Speaker 1: the open gate. There's kids all over playing and all

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Speaker 1: the clothes, and the first thing my wife lays eyes

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Speaker 1: on is our boys clothes. We retrieve three hoodies and

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Speaker 1: I pick up a pair of muck boots and I

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Speaker 1: know my own work. There was like a pair of

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Speaker 1: muckboots that had an L shape cutting them, and I

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Speaker 1: had sewed them and put the aprem patch. I pick

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Speaker 1: up these muck boots. I'm like, that's my work. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't even have a recollection of owning these muck boots.

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Speaker 1: So we walk out there and then everybody's probably thinking,

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Speaker 1: like all the other people are probably thinking, we're like

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Speaker 1: shopping off the free rack. I wanted to yell out,

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Speaker 1: like this is actually our stuff, hands off, Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: we're not just taking this is our kid, like, this

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Speaker 1: is our stuff in this playground. M m yeah. Good.

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Speaker 1: Very eventful evening, Very eventful evening. Devin o' days here

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Speaker 1: from Badcountry Hunters and Nangers, Western Policy and Conservation Manager

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Speaker 1: to talk about blackburs. Can we talk about blackbers outside

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Speaker 1: of California for a minute? Yeah, of course. Is this

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Speaker 1: your picture of the giant black bear?

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Speaker 2: No, that's not me, that's my buddy Ned.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying you you you gave us the picture.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Phil, pull that picture up. That's a nice

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Speaker 1: black bear. That's gotta make ari Ei proud. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: because they might wonder if anyone ever does anything legitimate

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Speaker 1: in those packs and then there it is right there.

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Speaker 4: I wonder how they'd react if you came into the

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Speaker 4: store and asked them if they had tips for washing

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Speaker 4: blood out of their backpack.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you know the hydrogen peroxide tip. Do you know

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Speaker 1: that someone was saying that for you folks who don't

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Speaker 1: know if if you, if you have a bloody pack

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Speaker 1: and put put hydrogen peroxide in the spray bottle anything

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Speaker 1: you got blood on? My god, does it come.

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Speaker 6: Out that you don't want to use the heavy duty

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Speaker 6: peroxide blood hates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't use like the stuff. Use the bleach of skull,

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Speaker 1: which is what percent forty five?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so forty or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, we could do a whole show on hydrogen peroxide.

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Speaker 2: I could have used it like that time.

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Speaker 1: Something, or do you have a skull you're cleaning?

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Speaker 2: I gotta I couldn't find my normal pack that put

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Speaker 2: my laptop in, so I just brought my hunting pack

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Speaker 2: on the airplane. And when I got to the airport,

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Speaker 2: I noticed there's just blood all over it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I thought, I'm sure I was gonna get pulled to

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Speaker 2: the side. Sure, man, I'm gonna use that trick next time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I got pulled to the side of their day.

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Speaker 1: And before I got pulled over, I had a big tongue,

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Speaker 1: a buffalo's tongue frozen and the guy used the term like,

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Speaker 1: we need to look at your pack, and he used

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Speaker 1: the term organic mass. So the other day in catch Can,

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Speaker 1: I had like a chunk of deer meat roast that

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Speaker 1: was left over, and he's like, I need to check

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Speaker 1: your pack and I said, I think there's an organic

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Speaker 1: mass in there, and he goes, you know that term.

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Speaker 1: I learned it from new people. I don't know that naturally.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, three percent. So if you're going to bleach

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Speaker 1: a skull, you brush on the pay the gel stuff,

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Speaker 1: which is like heavy duty. It's what it's what skin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's what people use when they're to bleach hair. And

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Speaker 1: it also when you go look on Amazon and you're

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Speaker 1: trying to buy the really heavy duty hydrogen peroxide that'll

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Speaker 1: bleach a skull, it's you don't they have it as

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Speaker 1: is to sanitize greenhouse equipment. I don't know that either.

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Speaker 1: It must kill like molds and funguses and stuff on

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Speaker 1: greenhouse equipment on your backpack. This is a Yani trick.

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Speaker 1: You put hydrogen three percent hydrogen peroxide in a spray

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Speaker 1: bottle and spray it, let it sit a minute, and

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Speaker 1: turn a hose out on it. I don't know. Blood

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Speaker 1: hates hydrogen peroxide hates it. If you're on blood thinners,

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Speaker 1: just drink hydrogen peroxide. Save money. But here's the catches.

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Speaker 1: Someone before you do that, someone told me that it Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it can degrade the stitching. Yeah, that's what

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Speaker 1: I was told you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like a lot of pack companies will

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Speaker 4: tell you just to use water, do like a long

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Speaker 4: cold soak, yeah, because they don't want to be responsible

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Speaker 4: for their stitching falling apart.

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Speaker 1: A thing that I'll do when I can. I did

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Speaker 1: it there. In fact I did the other day in Alaska.

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Speaker 1: Is I'll put rocks. I'll just put some big rocks

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Speaker 1: in my backpack and throw it in the river. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or throwing a fast flowing creek if the blood's so fresh,

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Speaker 1: and when you come back a few hours later, it's

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Speaker 1: just just the cold blood, the cold water running, cold water,

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Speaker 1: care free. So Devin, you're gonna do the opposite of

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Speaker 1: spot burning, Like you're like, come to my state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we got we got plenty of bears, so come

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Speaker 2: to your state. That's what the department is talking about too,

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Speaker 2: is figuring out how to get more people to come.

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Speaker 2: You know, how do we entice these out of state hunters,

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Speaker 2: because California, in most face, it's not exactly the the

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Speaker 2: out of state dream destination of most people on their

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Speaker 2: their wish list, unless you're trying to get that like

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Speaker 2: thirty year sheep tag.

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Speaker 6: What's a non resident bear tag cost in California?

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Speaker 2: Non resident bear tag is a great question. I gotta

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Speaker 2: pull that up for you. I think it's a couple

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Speaker 2: hundred bucks.

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Speaker 3: That's not bad.

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Speaker 1: I know, you know what. I know what the problem

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Speaker 1: is why they won't go there and they don't know

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Speaker 1: and I don't think you know, you want to know

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Speaker 1: what it is. I want to know that the primary

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Speaker 1: vegetation is poison oak. Me and Yannas have like conscious

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Speaker 1: when we're thinking about hunting in California. The number one

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Speaker 1: thing on our mind is like, but do I really

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Speaker 1: want to have poison oak for three months? Because we're

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Speaker 1: very we are very susceptible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am too.

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Speaker 4: Three eighty seven for a black bear tag non resident.

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Speaker 1: I bet you in this picture if you look carefully,

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Speaker 1: everything you're looking at is poison. You gotta be rugged.

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Speaker 1: Like that's the thing that people don't think about. If

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Speaker 1: you're susceptible, you gotta be prepared to be miserable. I'm Michael,

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Speaker 1: I got I have the skin of a little baby

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Speaker 1: when it comes to poison. Oak Oh Kids podcast is out.

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Speaker 1: Came out on January thirty, which hasn't happened yet.

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Speaker 3: January.

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Speaker 1: Now what am I saying? What was the other j month?

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Speaker 1: June July?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so in the future when you're listening to this,

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Speaker 5: episode two is out and importantly it's on its own feed,

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Speaker 5: just like last season. You can't listen to it in

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Speaker 5: the Meat Eater podcast feed. You have to please go

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Speaker 5: and listen to the subscribe Exactly how old are.

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Speaker 1: Your daughters, Devin two and five? Have they ever listened

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Speaker 1: to the Media to Kids podcast? Just lying?

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Speaker 2: So it's their favorite podcast? Yeah, they beg me to

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Speaker 2: listen to it every week.

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Speaker 5: Phil's masterpiece.

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Speaker 1: Don't be being a smart ass. It's a good podcast

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Speaker 1: for kids. You should play it for.

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Speaker 2: Them, all right, you know, part of their education. I

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Speaker 2: am gonna have to get them the uh the Crayfish.

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Speaker 1: Book though, sure I'll sign it for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you when you called me talk about black

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Speaker 2: bears whatever. Last year of the year before I was

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Speaker 2: actually at a hittie pool filled with crayfish, a couple

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Speaker 2: hundred of them I got. I got a good story

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Speaker 2: there too. We had one of them actually escape, and

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Speaker 2: then we found him the next day and my wife

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Speaker 2: we had eaten all them. We boiled all the crayfish and.

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Speaker 1: That last crafish and so them.

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Speaker 2: We were like, you know, we had the whole neighborhood over,

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Speaker 2: which is funny too because this is San Diego, and

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Speaker 2: everyone's like, where'd you get the baby lobsters with claws?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, mud bugs their mudbugs.

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Speaker 2: But we had one escape and then my wife's like, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, we we got to keep him now, and

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Speaker 2: uh so he became Stowy Stowy the stowaway. He lived

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Speaker 2: in a little flower vase for a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, well, this isn't cool. We got

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Speaker 2: to get him in an aquarium at least, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna eat him or we're gonna give him an aquarium.

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Speaker 2: And then ended up going out catching more crayfish with

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Speaker 2: the we're doing like removals with the Forest Service where

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Speaker 2: they have some endangerous pecies' habitat, and did a whole

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Speaker 2: nother boil, got another one, gave him a little friend.

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Speaker 2: They made it a little baby crayfish. Then my neighbors

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Speaker 2: we had a shitty little aquarium. Then my neighbor gave

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Speaker 2: me this amazing tank, and so we had this like mansion.

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Speaker 2: And so Stowey went from you know, hot in this

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Speaker 2: little flower vase to an aquarium to a mansion. He's

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Speaker 2: got a white family, a bunch of kids. Then you know,

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Speaker 2: this is like the American dream.

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Speaker 4: This is where it goes off the rails of aquaculture.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, I wonder though him having witnessed

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Speaker 1: the carnage that he witnessed, I wonder if he still

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Speaker 1: hates you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean certainly. Well, there was like like if I.

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Speaker 1: Came in here, I come in here and I kill everybody

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Speaker 1: in here in this room, but I take you and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, now I'm gonna set you up at a

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Speaker 1: sweet house and a wife. Are you like, uh, man,

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Speaker 1: this guy's great or you like this guy's a monster cause.

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Speaker 6: He did you did kidnap him originally?

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Speaker 4: And then if you have children, do you stare at

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Speaker 4: them and know in the back of your mind something's

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Speaker 4: gonna happen someday. I've seen it before. I don't want

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Speaker 4: to let you in on the secret. But he has

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Speaker 4: to live with that that guilt, you know that fore

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Speaker 4: knowledge of what it waits, You can't interview that crayfish.

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Speaker 2: You just died.

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Speaker 1: This is this is.

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Speaker 2: It just died like three days ago. This is the

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Speaker 2: eulogy because this is like the American dream of a crayfish.

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Speaker 2: But you know, you know, things got really sour when

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Speaker 2: you know he and you know his his mate. They

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Speaker 2: got into a tizzy. She ripped off his arm and

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Speaker 2: then somehow she escaped, which blows my mind. Our babysitter

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Speaker 2: found the female walking across the kitchen floor, put it

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Speaker 2: back in the tank, and you know, this was too

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Speaker 2: much for Stowe. He couldn't handle it, so he killed

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Speaker 2: her and then it was just him with the kids.

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Speaker 2: And then one of the kids got revenge on him

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Speaker 2: once the kid got big enough and killed him.

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Speaker 1: Just like this is the story of.

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Speaker 2: It really is life and death on the farm.

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Speaker 1: But like if you guys, if if people out there,

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Speaker 1: if you hear someone say like Oedipus or the Oedipal complex,

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Speaker 1: it's that like that you'll did you want to kill

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Speaker 1: your dad and marry your mom? Oedipus didn't know he

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Speaker 1: was adopted, and someone comes to him like a soothsayer, says, hey,

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Speaker 1: heads up, you're gonna kill your dad and marry your ma.

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Speaker 1: He's like, to hell, I am and takes off and

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Speaker 1: goes to a new town because he thinks his parents

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Speaker 1: are the wrong people. So he shows up in the

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Speaker 1: new town, probably kills a guy, marries a lady. M's

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Speaker 1: real mind, dad, Just that's just a little bit of background.

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Speaker 1: And then doesn't he take his eyes out?

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Speaker 4: Doesn't he take his own eyes out rather than.

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Speaker 1: Look at what he's done. That's that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: terrible story. I mean, that's a lot of ups and

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Speaker 1: downs in that story. So where are you at now?

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Speaker 1: You have just the babies?

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Speaker 2: I mean they're not babies anymore. Now we got the

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Speaker 2: new you know, there's a there's a power struggle going on.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of you in there. There's a and we

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Speaker 2: got a bunch of fish too, except I thought the

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Speaker 2: crayfish would eat the fish, but they're just not interested.

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Speaker 1: Years ago I did something real similar. We gotta get

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Speaker 1: to the show in a minute here, but we went out.

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Speaker 1: This was a want. We went out and chopped a

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Speaker 1: huge hole in the ice in a river where we

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Speaker 1: knew that there was a lot of crayfish in the summer,

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Speaker 1: and flipped all the rock like chopped that you could

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Speaker 1: get in with waiters and walk around in this hole,

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Speaker 1: and we catch a ton of crayfish that are comatose under.

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Speaker 2: The rocks, like out of it.

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Speaker 1: The water is so cold, bring them in, put them

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Speaker 1: in a wash tub and the mint they warm up.

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Speaker 1: They're all just super energetic, like instantly had a crawfish boil.

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Speaker 1: Took one little dinker that was too small and put

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Speaker 1: it into a quane. With my roommate's little baby. He

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Speaker 1: had this crazy little white, some kind of sinking frog,

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Speaker 1: like a little white aquarium frog that would live at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the aquarium. He was worried about it,

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Speaker 1: so we took the crayfishes pincers away from him and

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Speaker 1: put him in there. He gradually grows back a little

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Speaker 1: mini claw, and one day my roommate peers in there,

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Speaker 1: and here's that son of a bitch land in the

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Speaker 1: bobby of the aquarium, holding that dead frog.

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Speaker 3: Like you caught it the whole time. He has grown

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Speaker 3: that clawback.

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Speaker 1: Eyeball that one of these days, one of these days,

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Speaker 1: you know, the liquor. If Clay Newcomb's listen, here's a

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Speaker 1: story that has everything that Clay would like. The Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Man Kentucky man arrested for releasing a raccoon into a

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Speaker 1: business months after fleeing police on a mule. H only

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky. I know that Tom Murray, Kentucky. A man

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Speaker 1: from Murray can. I've spent a bunch of time there.

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Speaker 1: A man from Murray, Kentucky, was wrestled last week after

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Speaker 1: police say he released a raccoon inside of business. This

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Speaker 1: is the same man, just months after the same man

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Speaker 1: was arrested for attempting to evade police officers on a mule.

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Speaker 1: Why can we hear him on the show?

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Speaker 5: I can think of a few reasons.

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Speaker 2: Radio Live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy wrote in Yeah, they're having a baby,

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Speaker 1: and they got it narrowed down to two names, Yannis

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Speaker 1: and Callahan. I mean this must be a super fan. Well,

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Speaker 1: well it's half he's half he's like Yannis because of

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Speaker 1: Yanna's Callahan is just coincidence because it's after Dirty Harry,

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Speaker 1: Dirty Harry. So it's like cal is like just caught

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Speaker 1: the crossfire. I'm still that anyhow, this is the guy

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Speaker 1: writing in Brad anyhow, I was telling the person I

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Speaker 1: help out add an auction in Coldwater, Michigan, that we

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Speaker 1: were between Yannis and Callahan's. So this this individual Brad

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Speaker 1: is explaining to someone, Hey, we're gonna name it Callahan

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Speaker 1: or Yiannis. He's talking to a gal. The gal then

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Speaker 1: informs him back to the letter. She then informed me

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Speaker 1: that she knew a Yannis and said his name is Janice.

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Speaker 1: Who tell us hmmm? She said he was a real

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Speaker 1: estate appraiser in Michigan who she worked with as an attorney.

432
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: A couple of things. If you meant a building inspector,

433
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: is that the same thing? No? No, if you meant

434
00:23:54,520 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: the building inspector. Jannis's dad, also named Janis, is a

435
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: building inspector in Michigan. But what you're overlooking is that

436
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: all Latvians are named Janus. Mm hmmm. They all are

437
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: named Giannis. So there are some hundreds of Giannis phutellos

438
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: is running around.

439
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 5: So it may or may not be Yanni's dad.

440
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: It could be wonderful.

441
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 4: I think that it's he's a building inspector. This woman

442
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 4: calls him a realist. I feel like that's rather running around. Yeah,

443
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 4: I mean, there still could be too many, but I

444
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 4: feel like this checks out. I'm not going to disagree

445
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 4: with you on the point that there are too many.

446
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 4: Honest is very confusing, so.

447
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: Is Brad hoping we come up with an answer for

448
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 2: him here.

449
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: I would name it Steve waiting for that which dude's

450
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: name Steve or dying breed man.

451
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: I would say, just know that if you name it Giannis,

452
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 4: you're also naming the child Janice as well.

453
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

454
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: Well, and Siri won't know how to spell it.

455
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 4: And you're gonna you're gonna condemn him to a life

456
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 4: of explaining how to spell his name to every uh

457
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 4: like like restaurant host or hostess, every d m V person.

458
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: No one believes him anyone. If he goes into coffee

459
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: shop and he tells one person like they're like, what's

460
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: the name for your order, he'll be like, Yannis, and

461
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: then they'll be like, hi, I spell it. He'll spell

462
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: it for him, and then it goes to the next

463
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: person who yells out when their orders ready. There's no

464
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: way it's not going to be Janis. I was staying

465
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: there with Yannis one time, and we're weighing bags to

466
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: get on a charter plane and there's a guy there

467
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: taking everybody's weight. So he looks he's saying people's names,

468
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: and he goes Janis, and Yanna steps forward and he

469
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: goes it's Yannis and stands on the scale, and the

470
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: guy looks at Yannis and looks at the guy next

471
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: to him and says Janie one seventy two. He's like,

472
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: don't bullshit me, buddy, I know what your name is. Yeah,

473
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what's name that kid Doug during uh

474
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: doubling down on something here, I was goofing on Doug

475
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: when I was when I last time I was with Doug,

476
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: he was telling my kids a story was he was

477
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: trying to convince my kids that you should always back in,

478
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: like your car. Apparently in the oil field they called

479
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: it first move forward. Like Doug always back no matter

480
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: how much hassle he has to go through, he always

481
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: backs in. He always claimed, like he says that his

482
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: dad got attacked by his own chainsaw. And Doug's telling

483
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: my kids like, if my dad hadn't backed in, he

484
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't be alive. Even though he decks died old age,

485
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: but he would have died that day had he not

486
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: backed in, and I'm telling my kids, like listen, Doug

487
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: wants you to back in. That didn't make the difference

488
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: between Doug's dad dying or not that day, because he

489
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: drove down the road Doug rode in doubling down. I

490
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: do Here's Doug, I do want to crack you about

491
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: something with my dad's chainsaw story. He didn't drive himself

492
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: to the hospital. He was barely able to get to town,

493
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: so literally every second was important. Had there not been

494
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: an EMT in downtown kaz at that moment when he

495
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: pulled in and fell out of the truck, and had

496
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: the ambulance not been just down the road, he would

497
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: have died. Maybe we should reenact it sometime when you

498
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: are here.

499
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what that means.

500
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: Actually, when he does our meet it or sheds shoot,

501
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: he's going to take you to He's going to take

502
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: the viewer to the spot where Doug's dad was attacked

503
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: by the chainsaw. I had turned Doug onto a book,

504
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: one of the best I've read in a long time,

505
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: called The Land of Breakers. It's an old book. Holy cow,

506
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: is it good. It's about It's like the first it's

507
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: kind of after the long hunters. But it's like the

508
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: first farmers to begin moving into the Appalachian valleys, and

509
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: it's like the story of farmers trickling into this valley

510
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: in Appalachia and establishing corn patches. They're hunting bears all

511
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: the time. It's a phenomenal novel. Doug is surprised I

512
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: liked that book. He's delighted that I liked it and

513
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: says the surprise comes from the amount of personal reflections,

514
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: human condition and even romance. Wonderful book. Have you read it?

515
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: I haven't, I said to Doug. Because the knowledge about

516
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: trees that the author has that he then gives to

517
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: the author's very knowledge about purposes for wood. A guy

518
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: wrote in about something that I don't understand.

519
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Randall and I were trying to figure this out earlier.

520
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: Basically, someone has submitted a formal petition to the EPA.

521
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of an interesting concept, but you can see

522
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: where it's going. Someone submitted a formal petition to the EPA,

523
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: which probably happens every day, but requesting that humans become

524
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: wildlife officially, be like, why are humans not officially considered

525
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: as wildlife? Because he the play, would hear it would

526
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: be for regulatory effects, meaning that you wouldn't be able,

527
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: like there's certain things you can't do that would be

528
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: damaging to wildlife, and you wouldn't be able to do

529
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: certain things to human habitats because it would be like

530
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: you'd be affecting wildlife. I gather that's the play. It's

531
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: a very interesting concept.

532
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: Is IFNA is in long enough already, Man, that's gonna

533
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: really a wrench in the system.

534
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see a thousand ways this isn't gonna go

535
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: down because I know they're gonna do lethal control in

536
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: overpopulated areas, you know, I mean, like there's a lot.

537
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: It's just an interesting concept.

538
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure I want to back hunting as

539
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: a management strategy.

540
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: In it it's more like a barroom conversation than a

541
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 4: yeah yeah.

542
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: I As a parent, especially when kids were younger, I

543
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: always tried to like over accentuate to them that we

544
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: were an animal. M M. I would be like a

545
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: lot of animals, like bears, like us humans, right. I

546
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: would always do that to sort of get them in

547
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: that frame of considering us as animals. But that's not

548
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: gonna fly. Uh. There's a move to how far who

549
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: knows this story well, guy says, I'll just gonae with

550
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: the guy says, because this is a fascinating topic and

551
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: it bleeds into what we are going to talk about today.

552
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: Reinstatement of black bear hunting in Florida. Longtime listener, first

553
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: time caller? Isn't it from Rush Limbaugh's show, longtime listener,

554
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: first time caller.

555
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's Rush specifically. I thought it

556
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 4: was just sort of a convention of talk radio.

557
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: I remember limbaud have you would call in and say dittos,

558
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: and that meant all that stuff because every caller is

559
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: like a long time listen to your first time caller,

560
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: love the show, So then it would become you just

561
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: call and go like dittos and then just get to

562
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: the point. Florida has been in the process of evaluating

563
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: and getting public input about reinstatement of a quota black

564
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: bear hunt. It has been a wildly controversial topic and

565
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: has been gaining huge traction in the media. Lately. He's

566
00:31:53,520 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: attached the proposal from the Black Bear Commission, going on

567
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: talking about more and more bear interactions in Florida. Bear

568
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: interactions and bear sightings and places where they didn't historically

569
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: have them beach visitors, tourists. Uh. The other day he

570
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: took us first bear attack call two weeks ago made

571
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: national news. He says, I know the meat Eater crew

572
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: normally handle more Midwest and northern issues. That is completely untrue.

573
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: Go all over the.

574
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: Place that I think hurts unintentionally. That hurts my heart.

575
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: We talk about Florida more than any other state.

576
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 3: We do.

577
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: I'm sure they have ice cream down there.

578
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but people with kids, like dudes like Randle

579
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: down there, lock you up. I had a person Florida

580
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: one time tell me like cold, stone cold. She's probably

581
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: like twenty three, twenty four year old woman, tell me

582
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: stone cold, like she's telling me a fact. She told

583
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: me Florida is the free estate. That was just wondering

584
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: how you calibrate that, Like how you measure that? Yeah, man,

585
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: I this is like a little this is a little

586
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: bit Machiavelian. But like if you want, if you were

587
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: a bear hunter in Florida and you wanted to take

588
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: like a Machiavalian approach to pursuing your interests, you would

589
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: almost hope not for bear attacks. You would hope for more.

590
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 3: Conflict bear conflict because.

591
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: This is what happened in New Jersey.

592
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: It's yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's just

593
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: like a.

594
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: Real run in New Jersey. New Jersey had historically had

595
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: bear hunting. Through poor management, bear numbers were greatly reduced.

596
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: They did a pause on bear hunting and some other moves.

597
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: They rebuilt bears to where they had the highest density

598
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: in the country, did a bear hunt. The anti hunters

599
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: had a shit fit. Their governor was.

600
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 3: Murphy's first Murphy, Phil Murphy.

601
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: Phil Murphy campaigns on an anti bear hunting plank in

602
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: his platform. Gets elected. They shut down the bear hunt

603
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: New Jersey. First like they.

604
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 6: Closed yeah state state owned land, and then he just

605
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 6: let the bear Management Plan expire, which essentially just outlied

606
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 6: all bear hunting.

607
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: One of the things they did in New Jersey is

608
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: to just totally screw hunters too. You had to do

609
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: a check, mandatory check. They would publicize, like you would

610
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: need to pull into a rest area that was known

611
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: to the public, and they like publicly openly seal everybody's

612
00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: bears so that all the protesters can stand there heckling you,

613
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: taking pictures of you while you check your bear. Any

614
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: other state when you go to check your bear. You

615
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: go in, talk to someone at the desk, and then

616
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: you go to a little whatever garage back room, you

617
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: meet with a biologist, They check your bear. They don't

618
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: turn it into like a public spectacle of subjecting people

619
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: to that kind of exposure. Murphy. Then all of a sudden,

620
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: what happens. Bear conflicts shoot through the roof so much

621
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: that Murphy comes back and says, it pains me to

622
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: say it, but I was wrong. We have to have

623
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: the bear hunt. So if you were like like I said,

624
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: the Machiavelian approach to bear hunting in Florida is hoping

625
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: for bear conflict because that's your clearest path. The same day,

626
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: in fact, this is kind of weird. The same day,

627
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: in the same place where the girl told me that

628
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: Florida is the free estate in the nation. That same day,

629
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: in that same place, I met a Florida Game commissioner

630
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: who told me he opposed the bear hunt only because

631
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: of not wanting to deal with the public blowback that

632
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: would come his way. He told me that I don't

633
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: want to say his names. He's kind of telling me

634
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: in confidentiality. He told me I didn't want to deal

635
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: with the antis, they like swayed his vote. What happened

636
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: on that hunt? What did they have forty eight hours? Well,

637
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: so they Randall's gonna do a little report.

638
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 4: They had Florida had a black bear season from like

639
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 4: the thirties up until nineteen ninety four, and then it

640
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 4: was closed from ninety four to twenty fifteen. They reopened

641
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: a fall hunt in twenty fifteen, and they shut it

642
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 4: down within two days because they had they were I

643
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 4: don't think they actually went over the quota, but they

644
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: were speeding to They were killing so many that like

645
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: another day of hunting probably would have taken them well

646
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 4: over the quota. So they killed three hundred bears in

647
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 4: two days.

648
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: You're ruining the story, Hope. You're not getting it right. Hope,

649
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: I asked you one thing to do here. Well then

650
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: you said, Randle's going to give a little account of Yeah,

651
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: but you're not Your count's not right, my understanding, your

652
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: professional research.

653
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 4: I've got my research right in front of me.

654
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: I thought it went like this that like they built

655
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: a buffer in when they close there's a forty eight

656
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: hour window, or in Florida, I think it was a

657
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: twenty four hour window. Do you have a PhD or not.

658
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just going by what I h I do.

659
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm just going by what I.

660
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: Read waiting for that.

661
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think you could just close it because

662
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 6: you're not going to read like you have to recollection.

663
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: I recollection is they were speeding towards the quota, yes,

664
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: and so they called it closed. But they can't immediately

665
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: close it because how are people supposed to get the

666
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: word Like, let's say you're like waiting for one to

667
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: step out. You know you got a shot, but he's

668
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: not quite clear, and they go like, hey, season's over,

669
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: but you're not looking at your phone, and then the

670
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: bear steps clear. You're not in violation. Well they did.

671
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 4: That makes sense to me. That's how we run our

672
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: unlimited hunts here. But they shut down Central and East

673
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 4: Panhandle regions after the first day on Saturday, they said, but.

674
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: But what there was a twenty four hour window. They

675
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: were speeding toward it. But by the end of the

676
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: twenty four hours they had overshot it, and then everybody

677
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: had a conniption. The antis had a conniption. Oh, I see.

678
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 4: Now in the Panhandle they did go into Sunday and

679
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 4: killed triple the quota, and so they killed The overall

680
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 4: quota was three twenty, and they shut it down on

681
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 4: Sunday night with two hundred and ninety five bears killed.

682
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: But then by the time it wrapped, what was it? Jeez?

683
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 4: See this is the real uh issue with hastily assembled

684
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 4: research here, actual harvest.

685
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: Three h four and the quota was what painting three twenty.

686
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 4: Well for the overall state, the quota was was three twenty,

687
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 4: but they the one the area where they met the

688
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: quota on the first day they'd ended up that they went,

689
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 4: they tripped the quota, and so I think they just

690
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 4: shut the whole thing down before the rest of the state,

691
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,959
Speaker 4: that's generally speaking. But yeah, they killed three hundred bears

692
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 4: in two days. Thirty eight of them were soals with cubs,

693
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 4: and uh they haven't had a hunt since then.

694
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: Because it was treated in the you know, with all

695
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: due respect, I didn't give Random much time. Do you

696
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: notice like this group of there's like a fan group

697
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 1: about Randall. Yes, I wonder what they're thinking right now.

698
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 5: Well, I think their support they're all those dedicated and

699
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 5: loyal randomals there.

700
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: I think they understand the constraints of what I was

701
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 4: asked to do here.

702
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: They're reasonable, but.

703
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I've pieced it together.

704
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 2: I feel like I thought you did well.

705
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: I want to know more stories. Ted Nugent bought a

706
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: Florida Bear tag. Good for him.

707
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 4: Fifteen.

708
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: Uh, we were gonna we don't have time anymore. We

709
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: were gonna spend a bunch of time goofing on this

710
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: thing in California where they got an orphan bear cub

711
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: and they're trying and they're raising it up, and it's

712
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of like furries who are all dressed as

713
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: black bears, like like that's the problem to not have

714
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: it to that, Like that's the problem. That's the way

715
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: to keep it from not acclimating to people. Yeah, those

716
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: bears are doomed, like like the bear is gonna like

717
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: get out and be like, ah, I'm just another wild bear. Hey,

718
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: those there's some things, but.

719
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 4: They're not like the bears I'm used to, right.

720
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: Talking about that. That would have been funny had a

721
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: goofed on that for a long time. We're not gonna,

722
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: all right, the story of the California Black where it's

723
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: taking us a long time to get here.

724
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 2: Devin usually does.

725
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: I see you're here an a listener, longtime listeners. It

726
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: is just a couple of quick points on that. We

727
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: thought about killing that whole part of the show. But

728
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: we're not gonna good. But what I am gonna do

729
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: is I'm looking to in the near future split the

730
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: shows and just do interviews and just do this is

731
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: something we've considered for a long time, very clean interviews,

732
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: so you'd be like on as a clean interview and

733
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: then a different thing which is just talking about dumb stuff.

734
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 5: So audience, feel free to let us know your thoughts

735
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 5: on that.

736
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: Thinking about doing that, I'm against it. It's part of

737
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: my professional development.

738
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: It might be a little too serious. I don't know.

739
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how I feel about it.

740
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: Nineteen forty eight, did you supply this timeline? You know

741
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: this stuff inside out? In nineteen forty eight, black bears

742
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: get classified as a game animal in California? Like, what

743
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: does that mean? Right? What does that mean for people

744
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 1: to hear that they're classified as a game animal.

745
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: They're regulated by the Department Official Wildlife.

746
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 1: So prior to that, it was like have at them.

747
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: Prior to that, we're just killing grizzlies until you extrapaid

748
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: them and you know, people are just you know, kind

749
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 2: of run around hunting. I mean, we had our commission

750
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: was established prior to that, but I don't think they

751
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 2: were formally classified as a game until god.

752
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the state at which the you know,

753
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,439
Speaker 1: A way to think about that too, is that if

754
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: sand hill cranes, like this is a pet, little pet

755
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: subject of mind that I'm interested in. If my home

756
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: state of Michigan were to enact a sand hill crane season,

757
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: which they should, it would require them declaring it. It

758
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: would require them doing this. It's classified as one thing now,

759
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: which makes it not like subject to being listed with

760
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: a season. The first step is to go, like we

761
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: hereby declare the sandhill crane to be a game animal,

762
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: and that's like part of the pathway.

763
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: And they usually triggers like a management plan too, I know,

764
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: like we'll go on tangents. But you know, recently there's

765
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: a proposal in California to classify coyotes as a game animal,

766
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: and so that would trigger a management plan and everyone's like,

767
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think that's going anywhere, hopefully not,

768
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: but that's part of the process.

769
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: Right, And then that's coming from people who don't want that.

770
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: That's coming from people that don't want them to be

771
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: a game animal. They want to be able to curb, right,

772
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: is to be like that. Yeah that it won't be

773
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: year round, unlimited whatever.

774
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

775
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 6: Classifyment them as a game animal allows you to protect them.

776
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, here's an open season. It's a

777
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 3: game animal that.

778
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not dudes that hate coyotes doing that. Students

779
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: love kyotes. Correct in that case, Okay, we're gonna jump up.

780
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna jump up to nineteen eighty where we have

781
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 1: a sort of black bear benchmark. This is all deep history.

782
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: Hit me with, like, in nineteen eighty, what was the

783
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: status so Reagan? Reagan comes in right, eighty Well, he

784
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: was elected in eighty.

785
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 4: And then took office in January eighty one.

786
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: Okay, so just for you people to remember this, it's carter.

787
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: There's that PhD. Reagan on his carter on his way out.

788
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: Regular going on in California. Hit me with what what's

789
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: the status of black bears in California?

790
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty So nineteen eighty, I think they've got the

791
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: population around ten to fifteen thousand bears. That's the estimate

792
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 2: started getting a little bit more restrictive as far as

793
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: management goes. So that's when they took prohibited trapping, no

794
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: killing cows, no killing of cubs and sows, and then

795
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: they reduced the bag limit from two to one.

796
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 4: And if I can, if I can jump in, because

797
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 4: I didn't know what ten to fifteen thousand bears meant.

798
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 4: I'm looking here that Montana has between thirteen thousand and

799
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 4: seventeen thousand black bears. Yeah, so yeah, so like that's

800
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 4: a fairly robust population.

801
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: Not like it is now. And wait, yeah, just wait,

802
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: not like it is now, and counting bears I think

803
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: has gotten a little more refined. Yeah, I think it

804
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: used to be like a little bit tougher to count

805
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: bears back in those days. But I mean it's a guideline, right, right, right,

806
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 1: it's a general sense. But of course, if you're saying

807
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen thousand, you're opening yourself up to a

808
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: wide gap, right, there's a lot of numbers right between.

809
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 4: Still like yeah, but still it's it's in the it's

810
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: in the vicinity of where like what we think of

811
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 4: as black bear numbers in Montana, where we obviously don't

812
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 4: have a shortage, was Reagan the Gipper or the Kipper,

813
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 4: the Gipper gipper uh as much as he is like

814
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 4: celebrated among traditional concert like, as much as he has

815
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: celebrated among like pre Trump Republicans, the old kind of

816
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: Republicans from a couple of years ago, he wound up

817
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 4: not being the Hunter's best friend when it came to

818
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 4: black Bear management.

819
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? Like, wasn't it? Didn't Reagan sign.

820
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: He was about I was Mountain Lions.

821
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: I don't signed on mountains. Okay, he signed the band

822
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: on mount Dogs for Mountain Lions, right.

823
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 4: He also signed the band on Uh Nope and carry

824
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 4: in California?

825
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,479
Speaker 1: Did he? Because?

826
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 4: I mean, basically so the Black Panthers couldn't.

827
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 1: So you had to start wearing your pistol in your pants,

828
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: not out of your pants. You had to start hiding

829
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: it in your fans instead of explan.

830
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 4: Reagan's a big Hollywood guy, and I always full of

831
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 4: all sorts of contradictions.

832
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna, this is gonna We're gonna start narrowing

833
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: in on much more, just for you listeners. We're just

834
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: laying little groundwork here. We're just laying some background before

835
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: we start getting into like how bear management works in

836
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: our most populous state, and how bear management white work

837
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: in a state near you coming soon nineteen ninety eight,

838
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: So now we're getting closer. I'm a young buck. I'm

839
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: kind of an older buck, six years out of high school.

840
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: Go on. Nineteen ninety eight.

841
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: That was when the which is presidentially, that was when

842
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: the management plan, the previous management plan was established, and

843
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: so that was the framework that we operated on in

844
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: California just up until this year when we updated the

845
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: new management plan.

846
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. So nineteen ninety eight, they're like, here's how we're

847
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: gonna handle bears, and then twenty some years goes by

848
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 1: and it's how we're managing bears.

849
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 3: Correct, And in ninety eight the population had.

850
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 2: At it increased, Yeah, it increased. And all this data

851
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: is just coming from hunter harvest. So they're using you know,

852
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 2: age sex ratio and just hunter harvest from premolars. That's it.

853
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean, they're not doing like a ton of they

854
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 2: don't have the current integrated population model that we have

855
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: now that gives you a much more accurate representation of.

856
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 1: So they're able to determine, they're able to make a stab.

857
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety eight, they're able to make a

858
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: stab how many bears are there based strictly on what

859
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: they're seeing hunters bring in.

860
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's some scientific stuff, but that is the

861
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: core of the model. It's just hunter harvest.

862
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: Data, okay. And in ninety eight, so again that that

863
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: population estimate. In nineteen eighty, we're gonna get into some

864
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: wild numbers now, but coming up here in eighty ten

865
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: to fifteen thousand bears estimated. Jump ahead almost twenty years,

866
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: there's the estimate seventeen to twenty three thousand bears. Notably,

867
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: the plan indicated an increase in the bear population and

868
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: documented an expansion of black bears along the central coast

869
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: in southern California. So bears moving into new places, right.

870
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: And that's because historically they were grizzlies. And you know,

871
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: that's a good point. Grizzlies are extra paid, and black

872
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: bears are now like filling the void and they're like, oh, hey,

873
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: there's nothing killing us down here.

874
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: Right. No, that's fair. Take Yeah, that's that's funny. How

875
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: slow some of that stuff takes place, right that you're

876
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 1: still seeing adjustments, do you know, I mean, like even

877
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: today you're still you're probably seeing adjustments from extirpations of

878
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: wolves in the early two thousands or not the early

879
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: to the one I saying in the early twentieth century,

880
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: you're still seeing wildlife for just but it takes like

881
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: one hundred years, right for things that get used, or

882
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: how long it takes wildlife to get used to people.

883
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: It takes generations of mountain lions, generations of bears to

884
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: get like used to people and figure it out and

885
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: raise their offspring to be like no, no, no, no, like

886
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: you can do this, but you can't do that. You

887
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: gotta like when you get to a road, here's how

888
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: I like to do it, do you know what I mean?

889
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: And they like gradually learned. They're like, oh no, no, no,

890
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: you can like totally go into a neighborhood man and

891
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: trash cans, but not that neighborhood, like not that neighborhood. Yeah,

892
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: they like they figure it out somehow, you know, Uh okay,

893
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. This is when this is when the story

894
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: starts getting kind of juicy and interesting. So hit this

895
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: with twenty twelve.

896
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: So up until this point, you could hunt dog, you

897
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: can hunt bears with dogs, and that was you know,

898
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 2: we were hitting the quota every once in a while, right,

899
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: like pretty regularly that quote.

900
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 6: Can I stop you for a second, before this, like

901
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 6: was there spring and fall?

902
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 3: Was there baiting?

903
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 2: No, none of that. All that was back in like

904
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: I think around the eighties a lot of that stuff

905
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 2: got They went pretty good. It's away so we had dogs,

906
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 2: but no baiting, no spring season, just one tech and

907
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: we're hitting the quota. You know, not every year, but

908
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 2: around that like seventeen hundred bears where with.

909
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: Fall hunting with dogs hitting the quota of how many

910
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: bears seventeen hundred okay out of an estimated say.

911
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: They didn't change that by like a hundred or so,

912
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 2: so I think it maybe like was sixteen hundred and

913
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 2: went up to seventeen hundred. But it's been it's hovered

914
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: around there, hasn't changed dramatically over time.

915
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: And they got this quote and periodically people periodically hunters

916
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: are like capping it and hitting a close season yep,

917
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: primarily with the use of hounds.

918
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was instrumental to people being successful for.

919
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: Sure, Okay. And then twenty twelve, what goes on and

920
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: how does that happen?

921
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 2: Well, the legislature, you know that story of legislature gets involved,

922
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: there's an effort to ban hunting with dogs, they're successful,

923
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 2: and immediately following that the harvest rate drops significantly, so

924
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 2: we don't hit the quota. After that legislative session, after

925
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: that bill has passed, we do not hit the quota.

926
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: Until today, we still haven't hit the quota. And that

927
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: is really like, why everything got so sideways with the

928
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 2: petition from the Humane Society and all the efforts to

929
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: ban bear hunting is because the population model, when you

930
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: just take it strictly on hunter harvest data, everyone went, oh, no,

931
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: the bear population is collapsing. Look they're not killing as

932
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: many bears. Look they're only killing half as many bears.

933
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 2: There must be half as many bears on the landscape.

934
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: That's the great irony and perversity in this story. That

935
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: gets to me is like the same people that push

936
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: to end dog hunting for bears then trumpet the reduction

937
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: in harvest as a way of showing that bear numbers

938
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: are collapsing. When you know that, they know you know that,

939
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: they know what happened.

940
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 3: But it's an argument people will buy.

941
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 6: If they don't think about it, they don't understand it.

942
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: You know, if you wanted to see bear numbers in

943
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: California really collapse, you'd end all bear hunting, Like no

944
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: one's checking a bear anymore, there's none left, you know.

945
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 2: Interesting in the new management plan, they actually have an

946
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: interesting little snippet that says that in some areas where

947
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: there isn't bear hunting, you know, where bear hunting's not allowed,

948
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: you get higher rates of like infanticide and like starvation

949
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: and intercompetition because there's just so many bears that like

950
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 2: some of the younger bears aren't making it on their

951
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 2: mortality rate increases. I thought that was kind of fascinating.

952
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: Do you have some of those stats and hear about

953
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 1: like black bear predation on mule deer and stuff.

954
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's some crazy ones. So that new management plan,

955
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, I think it was I think they put

956
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,879
Speaker 2: a couple of million dollars like into all the work

957
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: that went into that. They built out an entirely new

958
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: integrated population model which utilizes hunter harvest data. But it

959
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: also they collared a bunch of bears. They have a

960
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: bunch of hair snares, they have a bunch of camera

961
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 2: traps and data that's all building out this plan there.

962
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: To give you much more robust picture what's going on. Yeah,

963
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: and regionally specific too.

964
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 2: But you know some of those crazy stats that they

965
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 2: include in that they did a study on mountain lions

966
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: and kleptoparasitism up in northwest California.

967
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: Explain that term.

968
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: So that's where you have a mountain lion that typically,

969
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: let's say, kills a blacktail a week out there, and

970
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: there are so many black bears that black bears are opportunistic.

971
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 2: They you know, smell a dead deer, They're like, oh, breakfast,

972
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: So they come in, push the mountain lion off the kill.

973
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: And of all the mountain lions that they had collared

974
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: and were studying, I think only one of them was

975
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: willing to defend her her kills. All the rest of

976
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,959
Speaker 2: them were like, it's not worth it. I'm not fighting

977
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 2: this bear. So then the mountain lions go out and

978
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 2: kill another deer.

979
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, because wasn't it. The over fifty percent of the

980
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: deer that mountain lions killed were stolen from them by

981
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: black bears.

982
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: They ended up killing six times the normal amount of

983
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 2: deer that they would because of kleptoparasitism. Oh man, So

984
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: I mean the whole coming back to spot burning, you know,

985
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 2: if you're a deer hunter, Yeah, we want a lot

986
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 2: more people to kill bears. And in that region where

987
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 2: they did that study, it's the presumed to be from

988
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 2: the datas the densest concentration of black bears in the world. No,

989
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: in the world four bears, over four bears per square

990
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 2: miles and had a lot of poison oak though.

991
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: That's an overlooked thing. That's why, you know, klepto parasitism.

992
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: You could do a study on that. Like if I'm

993
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: in my kitchen with my kids and I make a

994
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: case DIA, they'd be like this individual ones that making

995
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,760
Speaker 1: four times as many cases that's normally what it made

996
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: because of clefti perisity. That's pretty fascinating that they had

997
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: always met the quota. Then when you banned hound hunting,

998
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: so from twenty twelve to twenty twenty one, with the

999
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: band of hound hunting, the quota never gets met. So

1000
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: then you just you've taken away people's primary way of

1001
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 1: getting you take away one of the most effective ways

1002
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: to get bears, and then you have it that you're

1003
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: just gonna have more bears, more bears, more bears, more

1004
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: bears because they're not even able to hit the number

1005
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: that they've regarded to be a very safe number anyway,

1006
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: very safe.

1007
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: I mean that's like the harvest rates in California are

1008
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 2: well below what would be considered the threshold for sustainable.

1009
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: They estimated about fifteen percent take would be like a

1010
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: sustainable level for the population in California, at least recently.

1011
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: We're not over five percent for the entire state, five

1012
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: percent for more than one zone, and three percent for

1013
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 2: the entire state. So, I mean, the harvest rates are

1014
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: incredibly low, and there's some estimates that say you can

1015
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: go up to twenty percent. I think Pennsylvania and a

1016
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: couple other states have even higher harvest rates and they

1017
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 2: have no issues.

1018
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: Because they got styles with a lot of food and

1019
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: they're dropping three cluck cubs, four cubs. Whatever. You see videos,

1020
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: you know in the East. You know, some bear goes

1021
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: across the world and five cubs come running after it, all, right,

1022
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 1: stuff that you just don't see it round here.

1023
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 6: When those quotas are when they stopped meeting those quotas,

1024
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 6: did was there a correlation between an increase and bear

1025
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 6: conflict and an increase in the number of bears that

1026
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 6: were getting what they like to say euthanized, but you know,

1027
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 6: just shot by management officials whatever.

1028
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, bear conflict generally from that time period up until

1029
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 2: today has kind of steadily increased, like human bear conflict,

1030
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 2: and the department actually prior to the release of the

1031
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: management plan, they updated their sort of depredation strategy and

1032
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 2: their human bear conflict strategy, and after that there's been

1033
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: a lot less euthanasia of bears, but a lot more

1034
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: conflict as well. So it's just a little bit more

1035
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 2: difficult for the department to go in there and approve

1036
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: for a bear to get.

1037
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 6: Taken because of like social pressure or pretty much.

1038
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it follows what the depredation strategy is

1039
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 2: for mountain lions, which is, you know previously there is

1040
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 2: you know, procedures, but you could kind of I think

1041
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 2: my understanding is that wardens could make you know, a determination,

1042
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 2: like it's kind of on the fly, like, yes, this

1043
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: is a problem bear, we need to like go in

1044
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: and take care of this.

1045
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: Now.

1046
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: There needs to be you know, a lot that there

1047
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 2: needs to be a record of documentation of attempts to

1048
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: haze the bear. You need to have a number of

1049
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: staf that go through before that depredation tag is issued

1050
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 2: and before the department will consider actually going in.

1051
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 4: Interesting, I have a question about not hitting that quota.

1052
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 4: Is that is the success rate for black bear hunters

1053
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,439
Speaker 4: and cal obviously, like the success rate goes down when

1054
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 4: they do away with dogs, right and you're just doing

1055
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 4: spot in.

1056
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: Stall drop fifty or no, sorry not the success rate

1057
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: harvest drop fifty percent.

1058
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, so success but yeah, I mean, hound hunting has

1059
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 4: is higher efficacy. So I'm wondering, like, in the time

1060
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 4: that the quota hasn't been met, in the time that

1061
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 4: the quota has not been met, are success rates among

1062
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 4: hunters on par with fall bear non hound seasons and

1063
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 4: other states? Like is it a question of there's not

1064
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 4: enough people buying bear tags?

1065
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: No?

1066
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 4: Or is a question that success rates are much lower

1067
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 4: in California compared to a similar season in say Washington.

1068
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: Minunderstanding is it there like some of the lowest of

1069
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: the states that have bears, And I think part of

1070
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: that is cultural. I think in California people, I mean

1071
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: there's like something like twenty five thousand bear tags that

1072
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 2: get bought every year. It's a good amount of revenue

1073
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: for the department. But there's only about a thousand to

1074
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 2: thirteen hundred bears that are actually getting harvested every year.

1075
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that is cultural and

1076
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: it's just like it's.

1077
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: Smart and dope surfing.

1078
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's that's my problem. But it's people

1079
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 2: that are going deer hunting and are just buying a

1080
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: bear tag opportunity. It's opportunistic and you know, if if

1081
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 2: you don't run into one, all right whatever.

1082
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: It's like me and my wolf tag, yeah, oh maybe

1083
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: carry Yeah, I hate to get caught without it, you know.

1084
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. And it's not you know, a super expensive tag.

1085
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: So it's people just kind of buy one and they

1086
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: get into a bear great. But that I think skews

1087
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: some of the data too, of like how much are

1088
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: hunter's really trying and how does that success ratio factory?

1089
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that that was that was sort of

1090
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 4: rather than how many people are buying tags, it's like

1091
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 4: how many people are actually hunting them. And it sounds

1092
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 4: like that's where the sort of.

1093
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 6: Yeah you probably lost a ton of hunters one sounds

1094
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 6: went away like people are like, well, I'm not gonna yeah,

1095
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna hunt them a different way.

1096
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, they put forth they Humane Society. Right, yep,

1097
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: do we need to once again explain the Humane Society

1098
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: there's hs US. I answered my own question. If you're

1099
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: sitting there and you're getting you're at you're buying something,

1100
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: and there's like a little round up thing, do you

1101
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: want to round up for the Humane Society? Right, you're thinking, oh,

1102
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: it's the local puppies. Like HSUS is an anti hunting organization.

1103
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: You can have a local Humane Society shelter, but HSUS

1104
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: is an anti hunting organization. There's tons of confusion about

1105
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: this that people have the difference between the Humane Society

1106
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: writ large like as a big umbrella, and then like

1107
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: Humane Society shelters don't do anything to ever help HSUS.

1108
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 2: Ever, I had a question too, because I was having

1109
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 2: this debate just two days ago in California, and I'm

1110
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 2: curious for you guys if you know the answer to this.

1111
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 2: If it's outside of California, but in California, the Humane

1112
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 2: Society has police powers where they can actually write you

1113
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 2: a ticket and it's enforceable as if it were a

1114
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: police officer, and if you like run from them, it's

1115
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 2: like you're running from the cops.

1116
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: That can't be true.

1117
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 2: They can write you a ticket, yell night your dog

1118
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: pretty much for having your dog on off leash at

1119
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 2: the beach. No, one undred percent. I've seen it happen

1120
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 2: and it blew my mind. And so I did a

1121
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 2: bunch of research and I was like, is this just

1122
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 2: California where they have this police power or is it elsewhere?

1123
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 2: Because it's it's definitely problematic.

1124
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 6: Getting a lot of ticks.

1125
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: They got all worked out about the National Guard while

1126
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: they got the HSUS run around right in ticket.

1127
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 4: Here's here's the Journal article from nineteen ninety eight and

1128
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 4: the uh what the proceedings of the Vertebrate Pest Conference

1129
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,439
Speaker 4: And the title of the paper is Humane Society, Good

1130
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 4: guys or Gestapo.

1131
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: Oh, very provocative. That is a great title. I'm jealous

1132
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: of that.

1133
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,479
Speaker 4: Toilet, but it does it does sound like yeah.

1134
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: Uh.

1135
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 4: Societies are private organizations that have no inherent power, but

1136
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 4: drive all their powers and authority to enforce animal laws

1137
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 4: from the state. As in most states, in California, the

1138
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 4: counties can choose to operate their own animal control services

1139
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 4: or to hire the society to perform animal control services

1140
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 4: for the county, and they can serve search warrants. At

1141
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 4: the time of this they can serve search warrants. They

1142
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 4: can carry firearms and may even use reasonable force and

1143
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 4: deadly force to prevent the perpetration of any act of cruelty.

1144
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: Upon an animal deadly force. So I guess they're like

1145
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: kind of put your dog on a leash, like a.

1146
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 4: County, a county that has to provide animal control services

1147
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 4: can sort of rent to cop the Humane Society.

1148
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: And we're talking about the other day with our camera

1149
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: guy Rick Smith. He was working on this dog, this

1150
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: documentary about dogs in Mexico, street dogs, and he's talking

1151
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: about like he's like, psychologically a street dog in Mexico

1152
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: is a way healthier dog. Psychologically, they wake up, they

1153
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: hang out with our dogs. They're in a pack form.

1154
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: People look at him like, oh, that dog has an

1155
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 1: infected eye, and they think the dogs hate in life.

1156
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: But he's like, they have total autonomy, they have dynamics.

1157
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: They hang out with the dogs they want to hang

1158
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: out with. They travel where they want. And we're talking

1159
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: about this concept that Americans have people around the world,

1160
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: but like you take a dog, you remove its or

1161
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:16,479
Speaker 1: reproductive organs. You lock it in the house all day

1162
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: and you act like you're doing the dog a favor.

1163
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: And I think that all those dogs have what's that

1164
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: syndrome when you.

1165
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 4: Get caught Stockholm all dogs have.

1166
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: I think dogs are very susceptible to Stockholm syndrome, and

1167
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: they empathize with their captors. I think that they're like

1168
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: a highly susceptible species. And that's why when you come

1169
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: home and your dog's happy, your dog has Stockholm syndrome.

1170
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: He has come to empathize with his captor.

1171
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 2: You ever seen the way dogs in Mexico will try

1172
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 2: to attack a car, like because they're got huts. It's

1173
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 2: it's their only natural predator, Like an urban dog, an

1174
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 2: urban pack of dogs, I swear there's a pecking order

1175
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 2: and great point, the biggest one will go after like cars,

1176
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 2: and they'll come in and they'll try to bite the wheels.

1177
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 2: Natural predator and they're like showing their dominance. It's it's

1178
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 2: a wild thing.

1179
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: I was.

1180
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 2: I did a study Broaden song point Man, and I

1181
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 2: was on a skateboard, and if you're on a skateboard,

1182
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 2: you'll get like twenty stray dogs that will just come

1183
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: in like they're they're trying to kill you, and then

1184
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 2: second you hop off the board, they're like.

1185
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Hey cats, I got signed out of

1186
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: my thing.

1187
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 4: Oh that you're looking for videos of dogs chasing cars.

1188
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: No, but cats are remarkably less susceptible to Stockholm syndrome.

1189
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: But dogs, for whatever reason, weirdly are like highly susceptible

1190
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: to empathizing with their captors people that restrain them. Don't

1191
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: let them do what they want to do, don't let

1192
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: them hang out with who they want to hang out with.

1193
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 1: Make them eat what they want them to eat when

1194
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: they want them to eat it. No autonomy, no autonomy,

1195
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: Like you get to go to the yard, it's like prison.

1196
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: You could say that it's the same thing. Let them

1197
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: out in the yard, Let the prisoners out in the yard.

1198
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: I love that this is your new crusade.

1199
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: I hope you chase this.

1200
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, but you'd have to like cause you could say

1201
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 6: say the same thing about horses.

1202
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. Well, sure, let me think

1203
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 1: about it for a minute. I want to get back

1204
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 1: to Tom the Bear Protection Act. Here's a move where

1205
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: the HSUS correct HSUS comes out and says, hey, I

1206
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: got an idea, how about you can't hunt bears at

1207
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: all anymore in California.

1208
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 2: SB two fifty two, as a Senator Wieners bill.

1209
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 1: Okay, what happens with the Bear Protection Act?

1210
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 2: It got squashed. There was a big uprising from a

1211
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 2: lot of different organizations, and it got pulled back very quickly.

1212
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: Okah, that's twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two. There's a

1213
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 1: different approach made.

1214
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 2: Through the commission. Plain this now, the Humane Society filed

1215
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 2: a petition to the Fishing Game Commission, which honestly, you

1216
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 2: know HSUS, HSUS respectfully, Like that is the process, right,

1217
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: the legislature had no business taking that on, and so

1218
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 2: at least they're going through the proper channel now, right,

1219
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 2: the commission that they failed in the legislature.

1220
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 1: So like people complain about ballot biology or whatever, but

1221
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: this is like, hey, okay, we'll play by the rules,

1222
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: we'll go to the commission. Yeah.

1223
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: So they they bring forward this petition and the the

1224
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 2: whole argument is based off of this population model and

1225
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 2: the collapse of bears. So they're saying, according to their science,

1226
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 2: they're saying and there's only ten thousand bears left in

1227
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 2: California and this is a you know, we need a

1228
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 2: moratorium on bear hunting until we can update the management

1229
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 2: plan and until we have a better population model so

1230
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 2: that we can And they're citing, you know, mega fires

1231
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 2: and climate change, this is causing a catastrophic drop in

1232
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 2: the bear population.

1233
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 3: And they're going back to that like evidence but to

1234
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 3: climb and that's what.

1235
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything is built around that hunter harvest model, which

1236
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:28,719
Speaker 2: is when you look, when you break down the science,

1237
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not it's not a solid argument at all.

1238
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 2: It doesn't take an expert to look at that and

1239
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,759
Speaker 2: go okay, well this doesn't you know, this clearly doesn't

1240
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 2: really you know, pass the smell test here.

1241
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 1: And it being twenty twenty two, they just throw in

1242
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: climate change for a zinger.

1243
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 2: And we'd had some huge fires in California, massive fires, right,

1244
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 2: and so I think that's that was the topic of

1245
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 2: the time, right, It is like, you know, what could

1246
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 2: these giant fires be doing to our bear populations and

1247
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 2: what are the impacts? And you know, that's something I

1248
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 2: think a lot of people are genuinely curious about. And

1249
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: we actually used a after money and funded a study

1250
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 2: on pre and post fire population status of black bears

1251
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 2: in California in last National Park, just because at this time,

1252
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 2: you know, we're saying, okay, we'll come in society like

1253
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 2: if if you want to talk about this, well, let's

1254
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 2: put your money into your mouth is let's let's fund

1255
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: some research, right, let's get to the answer. And so,

1256
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 2: as a part of like BHA and wanting to be

1257
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,759
Speaker 2: an organization that stands for science based management and wildlife,

1258
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 2: we had this opportunity from one of the old carnivore

1259
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 2: biologists in the state, who's a great guy, came out

1260
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 2: to like one of our bear camps and talk to

1261
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 2: people about bear hunting. He mentioned this study and so

1262
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 2: we put some money towards it and it's ongoing. But

1263
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 2: you know, I think this is like where we want

1264
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: to be as hunters, like, you know, making sure that

1265
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 2: we have good data and good science.

1266
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,480
Speaker 1: And that's look. But I would think, just just intuitively,

1267
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: I would think that the that the fire outside of

1268
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: mega fires, I would think that the fires are basically

1269
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: generating more more and more black hair habitat.

1270
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 2: That's this I'm shuting just.

1271
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 1: Successional successional vegetation. So it might it's cooked for a

1272
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: couple of years, but then it goes through a very

1273
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: productive bunch of years with a lot of berry production. Yep,

1274
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 1: through the successional process. So you're right that you'd like

1275
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: if you have what's a big an acreage, what's a

1276
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 1: big fire in California and acreage, I mean, I mean

1277
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of acres, hundreds of thousands. Yeah, so

1278
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,759
Speaker 1: you do when you I mean, like, you can't deny

1279
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 1: it if you go into a place and you burn

1280
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand acres of ground and a catastrophic wildfire,

1281
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: that is one hundred thousand acres of ground that for

1282
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: a period of time is not going to be used

1283
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: by black bears for the most part, but then it'll

1284
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 1: become a patch of ground that is very well used

1285
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 1: by black bears for a pretty long period of time.

1286
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: But I could see that, like I could kind of

1287
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: see the argument, but I kind of don't see the argument.

1288
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 2: And I think there's it's one of those examples also

1289
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 2: where like do you have can the bears move somewhere else?

1290
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: Right?

1291
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 2: Is their habitat for them to move into or not?

1292
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,839
Speaker 2: And I think even following like some of the especially

1293
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,799
Speaker 2: like load to mid severity fires, I think bears probably

1294
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 2: move in like right after the fire too. Maybe the

1295
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 2: habitat and value isn't as good, but they're not. It's

1296
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 2: not like it's gone forever. As my understanding, right, there's

1297
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 2: going to be some bears that come right back in.

1298
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: You know, if anyone's listening that knows about this, I'd

1299
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: love to know this answer. Has anyone ever had the

1300
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: opportunity to look at collared black bears, collared mountain lions

1301
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: and see how they behave with a fire? How far

1302
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: ahead of the fire are they? Do you ever get

1303
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: mortality on collared stuff for getting caught in fires? Like

1304
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 1: I'd love to understand that. Like when you watch a

1305
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: giant fire cooking across the mountainside. I always say to

1306
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 1: my kids, I'm like, like, can you imagine how many

1307
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: pine squirrels died in that thing? They're not getting you know,

1308
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:05,959
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you're cooking thousands and thousands and thousands

1309
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 1: of pine squirrels, But like, what are bears doing? You know?

1310
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: Some of them, presumably the guy get burned up. But

1311
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: I wonder like when they move, like how well do

1312
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 1: they get it? How good are they going in the

1313
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: right direction? They'd be fascinating if you could ever have

1314
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 1: a good sample size of like what is it? At

1315
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: what point did it start to shift? It's you know,

1316
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,600
Speaker 1: what point did it demonstrate any kind of awareness? I

1317
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: would love to see some of that if it's out there.

1318
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago you could have gotten it

1319
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 1: funded as climate change research, but now you won't. You

1320
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: have to think of a different thing, think of a

1321
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 1: different buzzword to get your to get your research moneuent.

1322
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,879
Speaker 1: At the same time that they're saying ten thousand bears

1323
01:14:54,760 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: using the hunter harvest data, the California Department is there

1324
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 1: saying we think we got twenty to thirty thousand. This

1325
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: is in twenty twenty two.

1326
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 2: And that's their number they'd stuck with for a while,

1327
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 2: and there'd been some studies that had pushed that up

1328
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 2: to thirty five, but generally speaking in the documents that

1329
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 2: they'd had out there, they said, you know, we're think

1330
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 2: it's around twenty.

1331
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 1: To thirty c. That petition doesn't go anywhere, right.

1332
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 2: I mean it, it stuck around for a little while.

1333
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 2: It was a big, a big deal right there. All

1334
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 2: the anti hunters came out, all the hunters came out.

1335
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 2: We actually put together a huge just all the available

1336
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 2: literature and science that we could. One of our former

1337
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 2: board members was a black bear biologist in California, so

1338
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 2: just like the perfect person to compile all this evidence.

1339
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 2: And what came of the petition was it was ultimately rejected,

1340
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 2: but it led to it lit a fire under the

1341
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 2: department to update their black bear management plan, which was

1342
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 2: something that the Hunting in Conservation Coalition in California, something

1343
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 2: that BHA participates in. Prior to all this had as

1344
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 2: one of the top priorities is like, we need a

1345
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:10,640
Speaker 2: new management plan because previously, when the management plan gets outdated,

1346
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 2: anti hunters will come in and say, you don't have

1347
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 2: good science, we can't hunt it. And so we knew

1348
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: that was like square one. Having a defensible position is

1349
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:20,560
Speaker 2: having good good science.

1350
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 1: Because they'll use it against you and be like, you

1351
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 1: have an updated your management plan since nineteen ninety eight. Correct,

1352
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: you have no idea what's going on out there? Right?

1353
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:28,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1354
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 1: So they start the process of doing the new management

1355
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: plan and it goes up for like public opinion public comment.

1356
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 1: Was your general vibe on the proposed management plan or

1357
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: your general take on it?

1358
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 2: A general take was it was ambitious because the director

1359
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 2: said they were going to do it in a year,

1360
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 2: and everyone went like, all you could tell all the

1361
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 2: scientists and the department staff are like, did he say

1362
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 2: a year, because.

1363
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:55,719
Speaker 1: I mean, we will do anything fast.

1364
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 2: The Sheep plan just wrapped up and that that's been

1365
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 2: going on for over a decade. Know, these things take

1366
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:04,799
Speaker 2: a long time, and they I mean credit to the department.

1367
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 2: They got it done in a couple of years. But

1368
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 2: they got a draft out in about a year and

1369
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 2: then followed up with the final you know, just this year.

1370
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 2: And you know, generally speaking, there's a lot of information

1371
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 2: in there, but there's a lot of good data, Like

1372
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 2: some of those nuggets that I pulled out about klepto

1373
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 2: parasitism they talk.

1374
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: I read like I rarely read those whole things. I

1375
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 1: read that whole damn thing. It was. I thought it

1376
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, I get huge credit to whoever

1377
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: put it together. Yeah, I mean it was phenomenal.

1378
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 2: There's some really good research to win to that. And

1379
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 2: just to back up a tiny bit too, our commission, Like,

1380
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 2: I got to give a lot of credit to them

1381
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 2: because they really pushed back against this whole notion that

1382
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 2: just because hunters are the minority in the state that

1383
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,720
Speaker 2: we should just ban bear hunting. And so the commission

1384
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 2: really like came out in favor of black bear hunting,

1385
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 2: in favor of hunters, but with the caveat of like

1386
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 2: let's get let's get all the data and research that

1387
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 2: we can to make an informed decision.

1388
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was like what I got from

1389
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: when I read it was like a number of recognitions,

1390
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,719
Speaker 1: like there's a sort of recognition that those shifting social

1391
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: values in the state. There's a recognition that there are

1392
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:18,680
Speaker 1: a ton of black bears in more places. There's a

1393
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 1: recognition that we have historically used bear hunters as a

1394
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 1: management tool. It recognized bear hunter's contribution to bear research. Right,

1395
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,559
Speaker 1: it was like it was very even, you know, and

1396
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 1: then had like, you know, just like the whole state

1397
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 1: history and all their measurements stuff. I thought I was

1398
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 1: like super informative.

1399
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 2: One of the cool things in there too to check

1400
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 2: out is the range map that they updated, because you

1401
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 2: can see some of those areas where black bears have expanded,

1402
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:51,719
Speaker 2: and they updated that map and it's kind of surprising

1403
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 2: to me even it goes all the way down to

1404
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 2: the border to Mexico and we don't have black bears

1405
01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: in San Diego, although we did have one that ran

1406
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 2: and down into like Ramona, I think it was last year.

1407
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 2: So like it's not a not a common free occurrence,

1408
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 2: but you can imagine if things stay on the same

1409
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 2: trajectory that those bears will probably move down there. If

1410
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 2: they continue to move out, I mean we've been We've

1411
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 2: had bears porn into Nevada for years and years now,

1412
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 2: Like their bear population is bolstered by all these bears

1413
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 2: that are just leaving California because the taxes are too

1414
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 2: high or whatever, you.

1415
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: Know, with the with that black bear management plan they

1416
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 1: put out, which is like a proposal, right, I mean

1417
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 1: they have a proposal part of it.

1418
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: Well, they had the draft management plan and then they

1419
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 2: finalized it just this year.

1420
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so that that I'm not that that I'm less

1421
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: schooled down, but I remember now they were saying like

1422
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: there's things that you could do, or people were asking

1423
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: for certain things like like Californians are limited to one

1424
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: bear yep, and since the quote is not being met

1425
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: and you have more bears, like categorically more bears than

1426
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 1: you did when they established the quota, and the quota

1427
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 1: is not being met they were like, we could do X,

1428
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 1: Y and Z. We could give everybody two bear tags,

1429
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: which I don't think is going to make a huge difference.

1430
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 2: Probably it's the lowes it's the lowest hanging fruit, but

1431
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 2: and I agree, I don't necessarily know that's even going

1432
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 2: to get us to the quota, but it's it's a

1433
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 2: very logical first step. And that's actually what bhad is.

1434
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 2: We filed a petition to the Commission right after the

1435
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 2: management plan was finalized, and we reviewed it as the

1436
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 2: like easy slam dunk, lowest hanging fruit. Everybody could buy

1437
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 2: two bear tags because then you know, one is just

1438
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 2: more revenue for the department. If some people are like, oh,

1439
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 2: well I'm going to go deer hunting and maybe I'll

1440
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,680
Speaker 2: see two bears, you never know. Like so that for

1441
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:45,800
Speaker 2: us was just like an easy win. But there's other

1442
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 2: other proposals that the Department are going to bring forward

1443
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 2: that we're aware of, including expanding some of the bear

1444
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 2: hunting zones. So like in northeastern California and the Modoc

1445
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 2: Plateau that has been closed to bear hunting. It's because

1446
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 2: it's not historically occupied bear habitat, but the bears have

1447
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 2: moved in there. There's you know, good genetic diversity, there's

1448
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 2: good bear hunting up there, so it seems like a

1449
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 2: logical place too. Yeah, let's open that up. There's no

1450
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,759
Speaker 2: reason not to hunt bears there. You know, they're gonna

1451
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 2: potentially talk about season timing. It's a pretty wide open

1452
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,560
Speaker 2: season right now around when deer season starts and it

1453
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,879
Speaker 2: goes like to the end of the year in most zones,

1454
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 2: so they may look at that as well as if

1455
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 2: there's any improvements there or additional opportunities. I think those

1456
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,640
Speaker 2: are the big first things that the Department's going to

1457
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 2: try to address this year. I don't think spring bear

1458
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 2: baiting dogs, that's not coming from the department.

1459
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,519
Speaker 3: Hard to bring that stuff back once you.

1460
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:44,600
Speaker 1: What does it take to bring it back? Like, I

1461
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: appreciate I appreciate the efforts. I appreciate your guys' efforts

1462
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: on this. I appreciate the efforts. To me, like, these

1463
01:21:56,439 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: are all wins. They're all their battles, little wins, right,

1464
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: their battles that you win the war. To me, like

1465
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 1: to win the war, it would be that we would

1466
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 1: we would be able to go in and revert, we

1467
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: would have success in going in and reverting some of

1468
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: the major management, the historic major management decisions. Like hunters

1469
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 1: look at winning oftentimes at defeating, we look at winning

1470
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:35,559
Speaker 1: as defeating losses. Meaning Colorado's like, Okay, we're gonna ban

1471
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 1: bobcat hunting, mountain lion hunting. Hunters come together, fight it,

1472
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 1: and the victory is that you.

1473
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 3: Didn't maintain the status.

1474
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: You maintain the status.

1475
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:48,719
Speaker 5: Quote.

1476
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 1: I would love to see like that somehow we would

1477
01:22:53,680 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: pull off that trapping came back to Colorado, that right,

1478
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: that hound hunting came back to California, that the mountain

1479
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 1: lion season came back to California. What does that take

1480
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 1: in California? Like, is that just not I mean, like,

1481
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 1: give me the realistic. Is that just not gonna happen?

1482
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 2: I mean when you talk about mountain lion is not

1483
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 2: going to happen because of when that legislation was passed,

1484
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 2: the way it was passed, it will require a four

1485
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 2: fifths vote majority in the legislature to bring mountain line

1486
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 2: unting back in California.

1487
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: Are you serious? Fifths?

1488
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 2: So, I mean mountain lion as much as we would like,

1489
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 2: really it, that is not the threshold. Yeah, for bears,

1490
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 2: it's a different story. Oka bears. We had a bill

1491
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:46,559
Speaker 2: this year AB ten thirty eight that almost made it

1492
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 2: out of committee. It actually, you know, there was a lot,

1493
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 2: a lot of work done by a lot of great

1494
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:53,280
Speaker 2: organizations to bring that forward. Yeah, this is like a

1495
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 2: houndsman bill primarily as a sponsor, and it's it was

1496
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 2: before the management plan was finalized. And now it's a

1497
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 2: two year bill. So in California, the legislative session spans

1498
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 2: two years, so this was basically just kind of got

1499
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 2: to get recycled into next year. But it doesn't have

1500
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,679
Speaker 2: to necessarily start from square zero in order to bring

1501
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 2: hound hunting back. It will require the legislatures approval. And

1502
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 2: so what this bill tried to do is this bill

1503
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 2: tried to allow for the use of hounds for basically

1504
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 2: tree and free from like a perspective of human bear conflict.

1505
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 2: But it also the reason why it can't original possession.

1506
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 1: That's great, that's great, but it's not what I'm talking about, right.

1507
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 2: But but what it did also is that it allowed

1508
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,519
Speaker 2: for the It delegated the authority as it should be,

1509
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:43,840
Speaker 2: to the Commission to determine whether or not there should

1510
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 2: be a hound hunting season. Got it so it took

1511
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 2: it out of the legislature's hands put it in the

1512
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 2: Commission's hands where it belongs, and that was too much

1513
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 2: for the anti hunters in the state. But I think

1514
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 2: that it's not it's not something that's out of the question.

1515
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 2: It just I think these things have to happen in

1516
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 2: their stages. And now that we have the management plan,

1517
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:06,719
Speaker 2: let's say we get a second bear tag, we expand

1518
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 2: the zones, we do everything we can, and we still

1519
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 2: don't hit the quota, and we can show the negative

1520
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 2: impacts to other species mule deer, you know which, big

1521
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 2: charismatic megafauna like mountain lions. I mean, if you want to,

1522
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 2: like really make the argument bears are negatively impacting mountain lions,

1523
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 2: right like, we need to manage them to an extent

1524
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: where we can actually be successful.

1525
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 1: Now you're getting back into that machiavellian stuff, man, So

1526
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 1: I just feel bad for the mountain laps. We need

1527
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 1: to be able to hunt more better.

1528
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 4: So I don't know if you've the one thing that

1529
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 4: sticks out to me about this new plan, and I

1530
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 4: don't know if we've touched on it and I missed it,

1531
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 4: but it's got a new population model, which again is

1532
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 4: like one of these little steps that leads towards reframing

1533
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 4: the whole conversation.

1534
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 1: Right, So, the current.

1535
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 4: Statewide black bear population is what now according to the

1536
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 4: according to the best available science.

1537
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 2: According to the new IPM, the Integrated Population Model, it's

1538
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:10,839
Speaker 2: fifty nine thousand with but but it could.

1539
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: Be, but it could be scroll let me scroll back up.

1540
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:17,719
Speaker 1: And that's one of people where we are going nineteen

1541
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 1: to eighty, ten to fifteen thousand bears and called best

1542
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 1: best scientific gusts ten to fifteen thousand in California.

1543
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 2: Hit me begin now, fifty nine thousand up to eighty thousand. Wow,

1544
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 2: the most bears in the lower forty eight the highest

1545
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:40,720
Speaker 2: density of bears, black bears in the world in northwest California.

1546
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, there's too many places claiming to

1547
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 1: have the highest density of black bears.

1548
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 2: It's in the management. They take it. They like put

1549
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 2: their flag in the ground. They're like anyone else, come

1550
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 2: challenge us. But this is the data that we have.

1551
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 1: And like getting stuff like that fucking thing for Atlas

1552
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,440
Speaker 1: is the different places we compete, the different.

1553
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 3: Places in New Jersey and California as well.

1554
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 1: And then portions of southeast. The last also claim to

1555
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 1: have the highest densery.

1556
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 2: This is also per a hundred square kilometers, so it's

1557
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 2: like one hundred fifty six bears per hundred square kilometers

1558
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 2: is their metric, which is like just over four bears

1559
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,639
Speaker 2: a square mile. So I don't know if somebody that's

1560
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 2: a lot. Someone else is like we got the most

1561
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 2: bears in this quadrant or whatever, but I think a

1562
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 2: square miles are pretty Yeah, no, I.

1563
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:21,720
Speaker 1: See that true. Yeah, And then it depends on how

1564
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 1: big the area. Like if I put a bunch of

1565
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 1: bears on this table, could I say, like, that's the

1566
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:29,839
Speaker 1: densest population black bears in North America? Yeah, this table.

1567
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: So it's gotta be like how much air you talking about? Yeah,

1568
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 1: it's a sizable chunk of ground though.

1569
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's huge. I mean there's a ton of

1570
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,679
Speaker 2: public land that you can hunt in California. Four black bears.

1571
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:44,240
Speaker 1: Do you do some fall? Do you do some specific

1572
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 1: fall black bear hunting?

1573
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 2: I'm I'm excited to do some more fall black bear hunting.

1574
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:53,680
Speaker 2: I've been living in San Diego for ten years, been

1575
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 2: hunting for thirteen years. My wife and I got into it.

1576
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 2: We've been trying to kill our San Diego deer, which

1577
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 2: is might as well be the you know, unicorn of

1578
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 2: the woods. She was successful, she killed one with her bow.

1579
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 1: Oh seriously, Y's cool.

1580
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:11,439
Speaker 2: And we've been hunting together for a long time. Now

1581
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 2: we have a couple of kids. It's it's trickier to

1582
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 2: like get out together and do that. You folks on

1583
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 2: crayfish exactly, you know where I can really make it

1584
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 2: a way for my buck Stowe rest in peace. But

1585
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 2: I've you know, I've I've gotten to do a little

1586
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 2: bit of black bear hunting, mostly when I'm like traveling

1587
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 2: for work like we did. Uh, We've been doing this

1588
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 2: big restoration project up in northeast California, and so when

1589
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 2: I go up there. I was at my deer tag

1590
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 2: and shot a deer a couple of years ago and

1591
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 2: almost shot a bear, but a little out of range.

1592
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:43,719
Speaker 2: Usually bow hunting. But my friend who shared that picture, Ned,

1593
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 2: who does some guiding in the Eastern Sierra. He he's

1594
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 2: been trying to get me to come up with them.

1595
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty excited to get up And I got

1596
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 2: like ten points for deer, so I'm gonna cash in

1597
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 2: next year. I'm gonna scout my deer zone and and

1598
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:56,640
Speaker 2: go hopefully kill a bear this fall.

1599
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:58,600
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with the guy in California this

1600
01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 1: winter and one is weird just saying man like he uh,

1601
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 1: he manages a ski area. Okay, I'm not gonna tell

1602
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:10,640
Speaker 1: you what ski area. And I'm a hell fire to

1603
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: come down out of respect for the town, out of

1604
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 1: respect for the individual. It's not like my story, my

1605
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,880
Speaker 1: crime and punishment story. So check this out. It was

1606
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 1: January and this is January in the mountains, Okay. At

1607
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 1: a ski hill, I pull in to meet him, there

1608
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:36,600
Speaker 1: is a bear standing under Like you park in a

1609
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 1: parking lot and you walk up this zigzag old rickety

1610
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:43,080
Speaker 1: stairs to get to enter the bar. At the ski area,

1611
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 1: there's a bear standing under the porch standing there and

1612
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,800
Speaker 1: his buddy. Another bear is standing off to the side

1613
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 1: of the stairs.

1614
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 2: I can't like, I'm like forgot his idea or what

1615
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 2: it's like.

1616
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what you read like like people seeing

1617
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 1: things they can't comprehend, Like I'm stuck in a moment.

1618
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the snow is so you can't walk through

1619
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,479
Speaker 1: the woods. Okay, we're using snow cats to get around you.

1620
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 1: Cannot walk around without snowshoes. I'm like feeling like, oman,

1621
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 1: did I come through a fence? And this is like

1622
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:19,880
Speaker 1: a like I couldn't comprehend what I'm seeing. He's like,

1623
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 1: oh no, man, these are like the town bears. He says.

1624
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:30,599
Speaker 1: They don't even hibernate anymore. They live in town. They

1625
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 1: walk around. He had a couple of years earlier got one,

1626
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:42,760
Speaker 1: and he's like, he's like, dude, man, I kept that underrat. Well,

1627
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 1: it's funny, he said. There's no way I could have

1628
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 1: told anybody about that. And it was on his property.

1629
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 1: He tagged it.

1630
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,919
Speaker 4: Well, So this is the thing with the two tags,

1631
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 4: is they in Montana in the last legislative session, they're

1632
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:01,879
Speaker 4: trying to pass a bill through the Fish and Wildlife

1633
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:08,479
Speaker 4: Committee or in the House whatever to let hunters buy

1634
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:12,280
Speaker 4: two lion tags in areas that had really low success rates.

1635
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 4: And there's this question of like, well, if people aren't

1636
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:19,240
Speaker 4: killing lions there, now, what's them having an extra tag

1637
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 4: going to do? And the point was made was that

1638
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 4: a lot of these areas are places where there's not

1639
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 4: great access and so some or there's like considerations about

1640
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 4: hunting around city limits things like that. And a lot

1641
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:35,840
Speaker 4: of hunters wouldn't be, like, are pretty conservative when it

1642
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 4: comes to like butting up against private property or whatever.

1643
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 4: And so in the case of like these town bears,

1644
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 4: if there are some guys that hunt and have properties

1645
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 4: where they can hunt, like having that person buy a

1646
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 4: second tag, could It's not going to tip the scale,

1647
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 4: but it increases harvest in these places where it's tricky

1648
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 4: to address it.

1649
01:31:56,160 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 1: I got me a permission on the spot for I

1650
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 1: just don't know if I can deal with the heat.

1651
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 1: That's what I told them. They got property, said, man,

1652
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 1: you have no problem.

1653
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 2: Mmmm.

1654
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. That seems like a

1655
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: good way to get in the argument with the old ladies.

1656
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:15,680
Speaker 4: Near near Wine Country.

1657
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 1: The old lady cat or a dog on a leash.

1658
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:23,600
Speaker 2: There's an interesting tidbit too. I think it's from the

1659
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 2: management plan. But bears that get accustomed to human food

1660
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:31,080
Speaker 2: and are like your town bears, they reproduced earlier and

1661
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:34,960
Speaker 2: more often, and so like you're saying they stop hibernating,

1662
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 2: I think it's just like those bears. And it's like

1663
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 2: two whole separate conversations, right, like, how do you deal

1664
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 2: with the bears in Tahoe and mammoth and like the

1665
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 2: human bear conflicts that are there because some of those places,

1666
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 2: you know, there's no little pockets here and there that

1667
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,919
Speaker 2: you can hut, but the vast majority of those bears

1668
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 2: are not necessarily like the huntable population. Right, that's just

1669
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:00,639
Speaker 2: like an education campaign for people to stop being idiots

1670
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,639
Speaker 2: and start locking up their food. And you know that's

1671
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:05,839
Speaker 2: where that whole like h you know, human bear conflict

1672
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:11,719
Speaker 2: conversation comes in. But you know, hunting will improve human

1673
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 2: bear conflict, but it's not the like end all solution.

1674
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:14,400
Speaker 1: Right.

1675
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 2: Some of these places like require education, require people being smart.

1676
01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't you know, I keep talking about that,

1677
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:27,880
Speaker 1: that approach of like I need to be clear about

1678
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:33,080
Speaker 1: what I'm after here. I I see people that are

1679
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: on my I'm making a mess of this argument. Let

1680
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 1: me back up. I often see people use a rhetorical

1681
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 1: strategy in these conversations that I'm uncomfortable with. They would say,

1682
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:52,360
Speaker 1: don't we can't ban mountain lion hunting in Colorado because

1683
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 1: mountain lions are going to kill all of our children

1684
01:33:56,200 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 1: if we do that. Like, it's so tempting to do

1685
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 1: that because it helps you get what you want.

1686
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, to scare people into it.

1687
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: It's so tempting to vilify, to be like grizzlies. Like,

1688
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:13,799
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I believe it's time to delist grizzly

1689
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: bears in the Greater Yellowstone and Northern Rocky Mountain ecosystems,

1690
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 1: those deep distinct pocket DPS's is time. But I can't

1691
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 1: then go it's time because grizzlies are going to kill

1692
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:34,000
Speaker 1: us all, which is how you get there, because then

1693
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: you make it an issue that moms, hikers, whatever, You

1694
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 1: make it their problem by intimidating them. And I see

1695
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: people do it, and very well intentioned people do it,

1696
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 1: and I'm always like, man, I can't personally traffic in

1697
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:56,439
Speaker 1: this argument that I'm so afraid of a bear because

1698
01:34:56,479 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 1: we have bears all over our yard and the fall,

1699
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 1: I'm so afraid of a bear in my We have

1700
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 1: to want more bears. They're gonna kill us all. But

1701
01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:07,600
Speaker 1: I wish I could earlier. I used like being like

1702
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:15,040
Speaker 1: the Machiavelian approach. It's like anything to win right, and

1703
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't like it. You know, I think it's worthwhile

1704
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: to point out I think it's worth while to point

1705
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 1: out bear human conflict. But I can't put it that

1706
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:28,679
Speaker 1: my motivation that I'm motivated first and foremost by preventing

1707
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:29,879
Speaker 1: bear human conflict.

1708
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:31,879
Speaker 4: You don't want to get out the pitchforks and torches

1709
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 4: for the scary monsters.

1710
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:39,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm motivated by here's a renewable resource. There are

1711
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 1: people that want to use and utilize and enjoy this

1712
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: renewable resource, and it will not be a detriment to

1713
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 1: the species. Therefore, since the species is fine, they'll continue

1714
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:51,840
Speaker 1: to occupy the landscape in California. Let those people who

1715
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:55,559
Speaker 1: would choose to exercise their historic privilege of utilizing the

1716
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:59,600
Speaker 1: resource for food, skin, whatever, allow them to continue to

1717
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 1: do so because it doesn't imperil the integrity of the species.

1718
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:07,120
Speaker 1: If you got to get there by talking about bears

1719
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 1: eating your dog's food, I'd do it, but rather not.

1720
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 2: I think an interesting take on that too is that

1721
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 2: when you talk about like problem bears, right and depredations

1722
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 2: and relocations, and this goes for like large carnivores in California,

1723
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 2: we have an interesting perspective for a lot of mountain lions,

1724
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:35,200
Speaker 2: and we relocate a lot of these in these depredation instances.

1725
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:40,559
Speaker 2: We relocate and I know, particularly for mountain lions in

1726
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:44,679
Speaker 2: the Sierra Nevadas, in the eastern Sierra where we have

1727
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 2: an endangered subspecies of bighorn sheet, there are problem cats.

1728
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:53,160
Speaker 2: When the sheep come down low enough, there's like a

1729
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 2: big snow year, the sheep come down low and they

1730
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:58,920
Speaker 2: just get massacred by these mountain lions, and particular mountain

1731
01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:02,360
Speaker 2: lions will kill sheep, so they'll take that take it.

1732
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 2: There's you know, instances where they've taken that cat and

1733
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 2: moved them one hundred and fifty miles away, comes right back,

1734
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:09,400
Speaker 2: it starts killing sheep again, and they do it again,

1735
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 2: three hundred miles away, comes right back and keeps killing shit. Yeah,

1736
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:14,640
Speaker 2: And so it's like, Okay, at what point are we

1737
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:17,600
Speaker 2: spending resources, like, you know, if we can you know,

1738
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:20,479
Speaker 2: if we don't have to kill it, sure, if we can,

1739
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 2: if it can be a hunterable you know animal, great,

1740
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 2: But you know, at what point are we spending resources

1741
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:28,479
Speaker 2: to basically just put a band in on something that's

1742
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 2: going to come right back in. So I think that's

1743
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 2: the question there, Like you can't, yeah, you can't be

1744
01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 2: fear mongering that you know, the bears are going to

1745
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:36,080
Speaker 2: kill us all But also like we have to be

1746
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 2: smart about our strategies and how we're using hunting as

1747
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:43,720
Speaker 2: a management tool, and how we're employing depredation to you know,

1748
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 2: like prevent problem bears from coming in and killing like

1749
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:50,040
Speaker 2: the lady in Downeyville, right, Like, which was I think

1750
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:52,240
Speaker 2: part of that like catalyst of that story.

1751
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like a very emblematic story where here's

1752
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:59,200
Speaker 1: a person complaining about a bear, the bear bench comes

1753
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:03,360
Speaker 1: in her house and kills And it was like, yeah, right.

1754
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,519
Speaker 2: I've kind have seen that bear too, because my friend

1755
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 2: lives like a mile or two down the road.

1756
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 1: Was that right?

1757
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 2: And I've seen bears in his face. I find a

1758
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 2: deer up there, and you know, a couple of looks

1759
01:38:16,040 --> 01:38:18,880
Speaker 2: at bears. So after that, I was thinking, like, I

1760
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:19,920
Speaker 2: wonder if I saw that bear.

1761
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I might have. Yeah here, because grizzlies

1762
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 1: are esa animals. They'll go to great ends to move

1763
01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:33,840
Speaker 1: a problem grizzly bear. For the most part, when you

1764
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 1: tattletail on a black bear for doing something bad, I

1765
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 1: was telling people not the tattletale on the ones around town,

1766
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:45,640
Speaker 1: Like if enough people tattletale on a black bear, he's dead.

1767
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 1: Because think about like this, you got to move at

1768
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:51,679
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty miles to get out of where

1769
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 1: it's not you know, I mean where he's not just

1770
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 1: going to show back up. So here you have an

1771
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 1: understaffed agency with you know, budget constraints, like any while

1772
01:38:59,840 --> 01:39:02,800
Speaker 1: they management agency's gonna deal with. You got a very

1773
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 1: healthy population of black bears, a growing population of black bears.

1774
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 1: A black bear starts killing some chickens. Are you really

1775
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:13,840
Speaker 1: gonna send a guy out he's gonna catch it. You're

1776
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: gonna pay him the whatever days it takes to bring

1777
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 1: that thing two hundred and fifty miles away come back, right.

1778
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:28,040
Speaker 1: It's just they just this not the time and money.

1779
01:39:28,120 --> 01:39:29,560
Speaker 2: He's gonna use dogs to do it that.

1780
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:29,920
Speaker 1: You know.

1781
01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:33,719
Speaker 2: Dog teams are like how they'll get a contract houndsman

1782
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 2: to come in and catch those bears off times. I

1783
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:39,040
Speaker 2: mean they'll do traps, but in culvert traps, dogs whatever.

1784
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: But it's like they're not gonna, you know, they're not

1785
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:45,720
Speaker 1: gonna spend the time of money on it. It's just

1786
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:49,000
Speaker 1: it's burdensome. And then at any given time, like September

1787
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 1: comes and I'd got to tell me one time, like

1788
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,919
Speaker 1: in this town September comes they were they were monitoring

1789
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 1: like eleven or twelve in town that people are calling,

1790
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 1: calling up complaining about. So I don't know what that

1791
01:40:05,720 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: has to doing anything, but it's just interesting about how

1792
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 1: they view it. Then you got these guys here dressing

1793
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:13,440
Speaker 1: up like dressing up like bears.

1794
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:18,200
Speaker 2: That's just another day at the office.

1795
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 1: So what do you think he's gonna wind up happening?

1796
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:26,760
Speaker 2: I think I can say with somewhat, you know, confidently

1797
01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:29,360
Speaker 2: that I think this year we'll see a second bear tag,

1798
01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 2: we'll see expanded hunting zones into northeastern California. Maybe a

1799
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 2: little tweaks to the season, but nothing substantial.

1800
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:38,480
Speaker 1: They're more generous tweaks.

1801
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:42,160
Speaker 2: I don't know as much here. This is where we

1802
01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 2: start to get into like a little bit more uncertainty.

1803
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:46,800
Speaker 2: The San Luis Obispo's a lot of people that are

1804
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:49,840
Speaker 2: calling for bear hunting down there. There was an effort

1805
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:53,920
Speaker 2: maybe about like ten years ago to establish a bear

1806
01:40:54,280 --> 01:40:57,960
Speaker 2: hunt there because it's been historically closed and the department

1807
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:00,719
Speaker 2: had said there there's a thousand bears and we should

1808
01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:03,680
Speaker 2: hunt them. And then there was a big effort to

1809
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 2: block that, saying, you know, you don't have enough data,

1810
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,639
Speaker 2: you don't have enough research. They did a study in

1811
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:11,160
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen. It is pretty short, it's

1812
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:14,479
Speaker 2: a pretty small sample size, but the study indicated they

1813
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:16,519
Speaker 2: thought there was only like one hundred bears there, and

1814
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 2: so that was kind of like the proof of the

1815
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:19,640
Speaker 2: pudding that no, we're not going to do a bear

1816
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:23,040
Speaker 2: hunt here, there's not enough. And so I think San

1817
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 2: Luis Obispo still is like a wild card. The genetic

1818
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 2: diversity down there is not the same as it is

1819
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 2: in all the other areas. Even though it's it doesn't

1820
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:35,880
Speaker 2: warrant any concern or management action. So I think if

1821
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 2: there were to be maybe another study or some more

1822
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:41,560
Speaker 2: research that could be done into the population there, I

1823
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:44,880
Speaker 2: think we could definitely see hunting established there. But I

1824
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:48,639
Speaker 2: don't know that that's going to happen this year spring season.

1825
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that going to take?

1826
01:41:52,200 --> 01:41:54,960
Speaker 2: I think that's going to take. I think it's going

1827
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:57,080
Speaker 2: to be a walk before you run. So I think

1828
01:41:57,080 --> 01:42:01,599
Speaker 2: we need to like lay this foundation where we're at show.

1829
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 2: I mean, hopefully we hit the quota. I don't think

1830
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:06,799
Speaker 2: we will necessarily show that, Like, there's still more management

1831
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 2: that needs to happen, and then we start looking at

1832
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:12,680
Speaker 2: you know what's next, right, is it spring season? Is

1833
01:42:12,680 --> 01:42:15,839
Speaker 2: it dogs? You know, is it dogs before spring seasons

1834
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:18,640
Speaker 2: that you can have a better opportunity to you know,

1835
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:20,880
Speaker 2: you know, sex the bear and when you got it

1836
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 2: up in a tree and make sure it doesn't have

1837
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 2: any cubs. Like those are the types of arguments that

1838
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:26,799
Speaker 2: I think the community is a little bit more split,

1839
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 2: but that we need to have as we move forward.

1840
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:33,000
Speaker 2: But it you know, in order to like not provoke

1841
01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 2: that substantial backlash and another bill in the legislature, I

1842
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:38,400
Speaker 2: think we got to take these wins like and just

1843
01:42:38,479 --> 01:42:40,800
Speaker 2: chip away. But we are on the you know, we're

1844
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:42,880
Speaker 2: moving forward, right, We're not on the defensive anymore, which

1845
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:46,080
Speaker 2: is promising, right. It's like it's a really it's a

1846
01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 2: great time to have our department and our commission using

1847
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:53,559
Speaker 2: the science we have new like updated robust science to

1848
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:57,120
Speaker 2: advocate for like better management and better hunting opportunity. And

1849
01:42:57,160 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 2: so I'm I'm really optimistic in California where we're going

1850
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 2: to go. Hopefully we just keep chipping away.

1851
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 1: Let's do a quick roundtable if you could have if

1852
01:43:06,439 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 1: you're the King of you're Reagan you're the king of

1853
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: cal uh and you could. Someone said, okay, you can

1854
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:16,479
Speaker 1: have you can have back spring. You can have back

1855
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:18,519
Speaker 1: spring bear hunting, or you can have back hound hunting

1856
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 1: in the fall. I'd do hounds, brodys on hounds with

1857
01:43:24,240 --> 01:43:26,080
Speaker 1: that number of bears, Yeah, hounds.

1858
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:28,759
Speaker 5: I feel like I'm not qualified to speak.

1859
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 4: Are we talking about this as a management tool or

1860
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:31,680
Speaker 4: just what I want to do?

1861
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 1: What you want to do? Oh? Not what you want

1862
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 1: to do, oh just for the betterment of hunters.

1863
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:37,599
Speaker 3: Oh.

1864
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:40,080
Speaker 1: Someone said, okay, I can't do both. I can do one.

1865
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:43,759
Speaker 4: I mean i'd i'd restore house and hunting, because that's

1866
01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:47,000
Speaker 4: that was the traditional use up till the eighties.

1867
01:43:47,080 --> 01:43:51,040
Speaker 1: Right, hmm, How bad's poison oak in the spring?

1868
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 3: Like, I got questions?

1869
01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:56,439
Speaker 1: It's terrible, That's what I got. The worst turkey hunt.

1870
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,479
Speaker 2: Just let the dogs go through the poison. Can you

1871
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:01,320
Speaker 2: stand on the outside and I'm not going in there.

1872
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:03,679
Speaker 6: It seems like in a lot of California a spring

1873
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:06,719
Speaker 6: season would be a lot different than like a spring

1874
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:10,000
Speaker 6: season in Montana, just based on like climate weather, right,

1875
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:13,679
Speaker 6: like when the bears are all popping out in May,

1876
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:18,000
Speaker 6: Like I don't know that that's like there's a mountain

1877
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 6: I know in places, Yeah, but there's like a lot

1878
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:22,960
Speaker 6: of country where it might not be.

1879
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:25,320
Speaker 1: It might not be as they might not be as concentrated.

1880
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:28,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, had a very I think biography for sure.

1881
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:31,840
Speaker 1: Even without the poison out question, I would say I

1882
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 1: would say as well, hounds just to have that, just

1883
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:38,040
Speaker 1: to have that win for houndsman who get beat up

1884
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:38,679
Speaker 1: on all the time.

1885
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:42,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, mm hm hm.

1886
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:47,840
Speaker 1: Anything else you want to tell us about?

1887
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:52,120
Speaker 2: Just the three million acres of public lands for sale?

1888
01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's just show that's off topic, not off topic.

1889
01:44:56,720 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 1: It's also out of time because it's the release sched

1890
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 1: or we can't just put these up and we want Yeah, no,

1891
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:06,640
Speaker 1: I know, So I'll just cut that out by the

1892
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:08,599
Speaker 1: time you say that, it'll be something different tomorrow.

1893
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1894
01:45:11,439 --> 01:45:14,479
Speaker 1: If it wasn't, that's what we'd be talking about.

1895
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 2: Uh, bullfrogs, When are you guys gonna come come kill

1896
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:22,280
Speaker 2: some bullfrogs with me?

1897
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 1: How many you get we're.

1898
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 2: Getting like our good nights are like thirty twenty to

1899
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 2: thirty yeah, big one, big.

1900
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:34,000
Speaker 1: Big twenty two of them? Or how are you getting them?

1901
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 2: We're shooting them with pole spears mostly like wine slings, yeah,

1902
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:38,760
Speaker 2: spear fishing stuff.

1903
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:40,000
Speaker 1: Are you allowed to twenty two of them?

1904
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 2: Nope?

1905
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 1: Do they We couldn't do that where I grew up either.

1906
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 6: Do they treat them like an invasive species there, like

1907
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 6: you're just allowed to get as many as you want.

1908
01:45:48,120 --> 01:45:50,639
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, no, no season invasive species. And I'm doing

1909
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,240
Speaker 2: it with the Forest Service because they've got a population

1910
01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 2: of endangered royo toads that the bullfrogs are just hammering

1911
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,439
Speaker 2: eating them, and so we go in and shoot the frogs.

1912
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:04,680
Speaker 2: Eat Them's my wife's favorite food. And yeah, it's it's

1913
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:05,200
Speaker 2: a good time.

1914
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 1: Oh.

1915
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 2: I could also tell you guys about that.

1916
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:08,439
Speaker 1: What kind of ground? What kind of ground are you on?

1917
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:09,719
Speaker 1: Where are you doing is at.

1918
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:13,719
Speaker 2: It's like you know, riperian little little creeks and things

1919
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:16,280
Speaker 2: that you know, kind of spread out into a sort

1920
01:46:16,320 --> 01:46:17,200
Speaker 2: of marshiness.

1921
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:19,320
Speaker 1: Are you hearing them? Yeah?

1922
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:23,640
Speaker 2: If it if it's like you know, a what was it?

1923
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 2: May it depends on like gets warm enough. But then

1924
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:27,519
Speaker 2: when they're breeding and you hear them doing, they're.

1925
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:29,320
Speaker 1: Like, are you lighting them up or hitting them in

1926
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:29,839
Speaker 1: the daytime?

1927
01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 2: Oh, we're lighting them up. Yeah, we're going at night.

1928
01:46:32,240 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 2: This I mean as a where my friend who's the biologist,

1929
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:36,840
Speaker 2: I mean we both have he's got three kids that

1930
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 2: are little. I got to right, we don't have time

1931
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:42,719
Speaker 2: and so kids go to bed. We're like wives don't

1932
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 2: care that kids are asleep. You know, we don't have

1933
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:46,720
Speaker 2: to work. I don't have to take a day off,

1934
01:46:46,760 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 2: and we just go out there for hours shooting frogs.

1935
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:53,320
Speaker 1: You know, in Michigan, it's one of the dumbest, the

1936
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:57,920
Speaker 1: dumbest game laws in Michigan that I'll never understand is

1937
01:46:58,200 --> 01:47:02,479
Speaker 1: you cannot hunt bullfrogs with artificial light in Michigan. And

1938
01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:07,600
Speaker 1: this is a place where exactly zero people hunt bullfrogs

1939
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:12,600
Speaker 1: since I left. Like how that even came to be

1940
01:47:12,760 --> 01:47:16,240
Speaker 1: on anyone's mind, I'll never understand. You cannot use the

1941
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 1: artificial light to spare a bullfrog, Like, like, I'll never

1942
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:22,720
Speaker 1: like how that even was like on the radar of

1943
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:31,360
Speaker 1: somebody fair Chase. Yeah, which means there's no bullfrog culture,

1944
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 1: no bullfrog culture. That's sad A pole spear them. Yeah.

1945
01:47:37,080 --> 01:47:38,760
Speaker 1: Have you just tried getting a big gig with like

1946
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:40,120
Speaker 1: a twelve foot handle on it.

1947
01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:42,880
Speaker 2: We've I mean I don't have one, but I've taken

1948
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 2: I have a long pole spear. I've got like a

1949
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:48,200
Speaker 2: nine foot pole spear, and I'm putting some I put

1950
01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:49,720
Speaker 2: some weird things on the end of it that I've

1951
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,400
Speaker 2: been able to find. So it's basically a gig, right.

1952
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:54,160
Speaker 2: But then you've got the sling, so you can get

1953
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:56,680
Speaker 2: you can get some range on it, right, shoot that

1954
01:47:56,680 --> 01:47:58,000
Speaker 2: thing out in the middle of a little pond.

1955
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then big old fatties, big fatty like, show

1956
01:48:02,240 --> 01:48:03,800
Speaker 1: me the legs up with your hands. How far the

1957
01:48:03,840 --> 01:48:05,839
Speaker 1: legs from the tip of his toes to his hips

1958
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:07,320
Speaker 1: to his pelvis all that.

1959
01:48:07,400 --> 01:48:09,520
Speaker 2: I mean, they're like that fat around.

1960
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1961
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like chicken legs. I mean they're from the

1962
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:17,000
Speaker 2: just some good legs.

1963
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 4: California, Steve, what's peak month out there?

1964
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:24,880
Speaker 2: We just kind of we're just kind of coming out

1965
01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:25,120
Speaker 2: of it.

1966
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:28,439
Speaker 1: Probably what's poison ivy situation, Like it's.

1967
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 2: Chilled sothern California's not so bad poison I poisons really

1968
01:48:32,320 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 2: more like a stand in the water. Yeah, there's there's

1969
01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:36,360
Speaker 2: no that would.

1970
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:38,599
Speaker 1: Be fun man, twenty to thirty at night.

1971
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:42,080
Speaker 2: And you're and it's good for conservation, right, Like.

1972
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:47,760
Speaker 1: What can I be square with you? Though? No, do

1973
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:50,559
Speaker 1: you really think does that does like there are so

1974
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:56,400
Speaker 1: when you look at wildlife management, invasive species management, with

1975
01:48:56,479 --> 01:49:02,200
Speaker 1: the exception of new tree in Chesapeake Bay and maybe

1976
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:07,000
Speaker 1: some other examples, are there really any case studies in

1977
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: which something was mechanically removed.

1978
01:49:10,400 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 2: We're never getting rid of these bullfrogs.

1979
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 3: We're not living living.

1980
01:49:15,400 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 2: Under anti false.

1981
01:49:16,240 --> 01:49:20,599
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like like lionfish is like you're gonna

1982
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: get them all huh.

1983
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in this area, like we are hammering them

1984
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:27,519
Speaker 2: to the extent that they're not there. It's allowing more

1985
01:49:27,560 --> 01:49:31,520
Speaker 2: to roo toads to reproduce. So from a conservation perspective,

1986
01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 2: like it's it's having an impact, while if we were

1987
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,439
Speaker 2: to stop doing this in five years, be a bazillion more.

1988
01:49:37,720 --> 01:49:40,639
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So it's yeah, you're you're it's like any

1989
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:44,559
Speaker 1: kind of control. Yeah, it's like it's targeted, helpful control,

1990
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 1: but it's it winds up being that that toad will

1991
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:54,480
Speaker 1: remain basically conservation dependent on some amount of mechanical removing. Likely. Yeah,

1992
01:49:54,640 --> 01:49:57,040
Speaker 1: but I mean I'll travel for a good bullfrog hunt

1993
01:49:57,080 --> 01:50:00,839
Speaker 1: no matter what, because those are good numbers for big fatties.

1994
01:50:01,080 --> 01:50:05,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you get the spearfishing combo, you know, shoot,

1995
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:07,360
Speaker 2: some soup, some fogs at night, and some fish during

1996
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 2: the day. Really, Oh yeah, you want to go spearfie.

1997
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:14,599
Speaker 1: What would we go for calicos and like like sheepshead or.

1998
01:50:14,520 --> 01:50:19,040
Speaker 2: What if it's the summertime, like right now, depending on

1999
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:21,720
Speaker 2: what you wanted, Like, definitely could find some calicoes. You

2000
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:23,760
Speaker 2: might find a howl that if we went out into

2001
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:25,880
Speaker 2: the kelped, good chance you find a yellow tail or

2002
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:27,439
Speaker 2: white sea bass. But if you want, like I.

2003
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:29,280
Speaker 1: Don't believe in white sea bass, I don't think they're

2004
01:50:30,360 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 1: I don't believe.

2005
01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:34,880
Speaker 2: If you want to, if you want to surefire guarantee, like,

2006
01:50:35,240 --> 01:50:37,480
Speaker 2: I will put you on a fish. It's the Corbina.

2007
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 2: Oh really, because they are they're in five feet of

2008
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:45,120
Speaker 2: water less. I mean they're right there feeding on sand

2009
01:50:45,120 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 2: crabs in the shore. And so I've taken people that

2010
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:49,880
Speaker 2: have never spearfished before in their lives and just dragged

2011
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,320
Speaker 2: them out. And you have to be somewhat comfortable in

2012
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:53,880
Speaker 2: the water because every once in a while wave I'll

2013
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,200
Speaker 2: just toss you on the sand because you're in there

2014
01:50:56,400 --> 01:50:59,040
Speaker 2: like this much water trying to get in and shoot

2015
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 2: these things. But you can cheat a lot. It's a

2016
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 2: lot of fun.

2017
01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 1: I got a lucky there. I got a not San Diego,

2018
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:08,599
Speaker 1: but I got a lucky yellow tail. Oh nice, doing

2019
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of other stuff. And then I lucked into yet,

2020
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:11,720
Speaker 1: which is the only yell tub I've ever got.

2021
01:51:11,880 --> 01:51:13,200
Speaker 2: I got one on my kayak and then I had

2022
01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:15,559
Speaker 2: a hammerhead come in try to get it.

2023
01:51:15,840 --> 01:51:17,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's cool.

2024
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:19,439
Speaker 2: I was three miles out and you saved the fish.

2025
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:22,160
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, yeah I didn't. That wasn't after I

2026
01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:25,200
Speaker 2: got in. It was like an hour paddle back in

2027
01:51:25,320 --> 01:51:26,599
Speaker 2: or you know, I had one of those pedal kayaks

2028
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:29,639
Speaker 2: if my neighbor let me borrow, and this thing circled

2029
01:51:29,680 --> 01:51:31,240
Speaker 2: us and bumped my boat for an hour. We got

2030
01:51:31,280 --> 01:51:34,599
Speaker 2: into shore. We have goprovid of that fish. Oh yeah,

2031
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:36,360
Speaker 2: just smell the blood. The blood from the gas was

2032
01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:39,160
Speaker 2: just coming in the water. And I was holding the

2033
01:51:39,240 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 2: tail like this in between my legs as I was pedaling.

2034
01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:43,720
Speaker 2: And I got to shore. Well right before I got

2035
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:45,640
Speaker 2: to shore, went through the surf break and I was

2036
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:51,439
Speaker 2: like the ten foot hammerhead behind me. Sorry dude. And

2037
01:51:51,479 --> 01:51:53,519
Speaker 2: then I got into shore and I tried to like

2038
01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:55,720
Speaker 2: open my hand because I had so much adrenaline. I

2039
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:58,639
Speaker 2: had to like fry my fingers off this fish because

2040
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:00,800
Speaker 2: it was just like, I gotta get it.

2041
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,479
Speaker 1: That frog hunt sounds fun. Big fatties, big fatties. Broom

2042
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 1: round here. All you hear is boom. You know what

2043
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:10,200
Speaker 1: that is?

2044
01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:13,400
Speaker 2: Bm someone shooting and missing.

2045
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:15,799
Speaker 1: No, that's people thinking they hear a bullfrog. But it's

2046
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:16,760
Speaker 1: a green frog.

2047
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:18,880
Speaker 3: Right out back.

2048
01:52:20,400 --> 01:52:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah you want that broom? Oh yeah makes the hair

2049
01:52:26,360 --> 01:52:28,840
Speaker 1: on the back of my next stand up. That's my

2050
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:33,040
Speaker 1: dad saying about the smell at German cigarettes. Man the

2051
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:36,800
Speaker 1: hair on the back of the next stand up. Thanks

2052
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:38,000
Speaker 1: for coming on the show man.

2053
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me.

2054
01:52:38,960 --> 01:52:42,280
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I hope you get like, let's get

2055
01:52:43,080 --> 01:52:49,360
Speaker 1: let's get some bear hunting in California back on the thing,

2056
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:52,479
Speaker 1: come on down, yeah, cause you know, you guys got

2057
01:52:52,479 --> 01:52:54,880
Speaker 1: a people like the hack on California. But if you

2058
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:58,400
Speaker 1: guys get some big wins like that, people start being like,

2059
01:52:58,439 --> 01:52:59,280
Speaker 1: I love that blaze.

2060
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:03,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's it's a sportsman's paradise for if

2061
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:05,920
Speaker 2: you know the right species to go after, or if

2062
01:53:05,960 --> 01:53:08,160
Speaker 2: you draw that tag that you know you save up

2063
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:08,840
Speaker 2: your points right.

2064
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:11,080
Speaker 1: Well, this is my final thought on it, and it

2065
01:53:11,160 --> 01:53:14,800
Speaker 1: is something I bring up a lot like everywhere you

2066
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:18,240
Speaker 1: go in the country, everywhere you go, there's two people

2067
01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:22,040
Speaker 1: next door to each other. There's the guy that like,

2068
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:27,800
Speaker 1: there's too many people now fishing game did this? The

2069
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:33,519
Speaker 1: wolves did that, the the the and they sit in

2070
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:38,639
Speaker 1: their house and bitch and neck always, Like somewhere right

2071
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:41,320
Speaker 1: around his house is the dude who's like, dude, you

2072
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:45,960
Speaker 1: can't even scratch the surface. There's so much to do.

2073
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:51,519
Speaker 1: I mean they're neighbors. Everywhere you go in the country,

2074
01:53:51,680 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 1: you will find those two people in very close proximity

2075
01:53:55,439 --> 01:53:59,920
Speaker 1: to each other. I always try to be with the

2076
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:04,160
Speaker 1: dude who's like, you can't scratch the surface. No, so

2077
01:54:04,280 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 1: keeps getting after it.

2078
01:54:05,240 --> 01:54:06,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, just looking in the wrong place.

2079
01:54:06,479 --> 01:54:08,439
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, you sound like you can't scratch the surface

2080
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:09,720
Speaker 1: kind of guy. Yeah.

2081
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:10,960
Speaker 2: I love it as long as I can do it

2082
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:11,960
Speaker 2: after my kids go to bed.

2083
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 1: Ah man, thank you