Speaker 1: Pushkin Getting Even is produced by Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus and you can hear Getting Even and other
Speaker 1: Pushkin shows add free and receive exclusive bonus episodes. Sign
Speaker 1: up on the Getting Even show page in Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot fm. The nominees for the Best
Speaker 1: Performance by an Actor Albert Finney and Tom Jones, Richard Harris.
Speaker 1: That's actress Anne Baincroft announcing the nominees for the Academy
Speaker 1: Award for Best Actor in nineteen sixty four. The winner
Speaker 1: to Sydney Portulade, Sydney Poitier received the distinction. It's hard
Speaker 1: to hear his name above the roar of applause. It
Speaker 1: is a long journey to this moment. I should say
Speaker 1: it's a very special thank you to The nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: four Academy Awards marked the first time that a black actor,
Speaker 1: male or female, one Hollywood's highest honor for their performance
Speaker 1: in a leading role. Almost forty years later, the first
Speaker 1: black female actor was awarded the same honor when Hallie
Speaker 1: Berry won Best Actress in two thousand and two. This
Speaker 1: moment so much bigger than me today, She's still the
Speaker 1: only one. I'm Anita Hill this is a special episode
Speaker 1: of Getting Even. This week we're going to the Oscars.
Speaker 1: In recent years, the need to diversify Hollywood has become
Speaker 1: increasingly clear, and the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and
Speaker 1: Sciences has made strides. Nine actors of color were nominated
Speaker 1: for Academy Awards in twenty twenty one, and Chloe Jow
Speaker 1: became the first woman of color to win Best Director.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of progress we've seen lately, this all
Speaker 1: started with a tweet in January twenty fifteen. I was
Speaker 1: watching the Academy Award nominations and category after category, twenty
Speaker 1: different fields, there were no people of color, So I said,
Speaker 1: Oscar so white. They asked to touch my hair. That's
Speaker 1: media strategists. April Rain, the originator of the Oscars so
Speaker 1: white hashtag her viraled tweet, drew much deserved attention to
Speaker 1: the lack of diverse representation in Hollywood filmmaking, both on
Speaker 1: screen and behind the camera. The Oscar so white hashtag
Speaker 1: made rounds again the following year, but the impact of
Speaker 1: a conversation that April Rain started was on full display
Speaker 1: by twenty twenty one. With the twenty twenty two Academy
Speaker 1: Awards coming up this weekend. I wanted to know more
Speaker 1: about how this progress was made, so I called up
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine. Hi, I'm Dawn Hudson. I'm
Speaker 1: the chief executive officer of the Academy of Motion Picture
Speaker 1: Arts and Sciences, who has been at the forefront of
Speaker 1: change during a critical decade in Hollywood. I started with
Speaker 1: the Academy of June first, twenty eleven, and I asked
Speaker 1: her how we got where we are, where we're headed,
Speaker 1: and what the Academy actually does. I'm so happy to
Speaker 1: be here, Anita. You are in Hollywood and I think
Speaker 1: one of the most important roles in the industry. But
Speaker 1: most of the people know only the words that you
Speaker 1: hear when people win an Oscar and say I want
Speaker 1: to thank the Academy, But they don't really. Most people
Speaker 1: don't know how it's made up, how it operates. It
Speaker 1: was started with just the intention of advocating for the
Speaker 1: arts and sciences of motion pictures. And it's unique in
Speaker 1: that it's an organization that isn't it isn't a guild,
Speaker 1: or it isn't representing one single sector of filmmaking. We're
Speaker 1: representing everyone who makes a film. So when you say
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank the Academy, you're thanking all of
Speaker 1: those artists who make up filmmaking and the oscars are
Speaker 1: really but most people, we'll see, they don't realize that
Speaker 1: you are year round doing things to support the industry
Speaker 1: as well as the people who are in the industry.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, people do understand the awards programs.
Speaker 1: That's what they see. That's the part that's most visible,
Speaker 1: and they don't know how what the workings or inner
Speaker 1: workings of that process is. So can you tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about that? Sure? Sure, And I want
Speaker 1: to emphasize that that awards ceremony, well, it is that
Speaker 1: you know, this is our most public night, Oscar night.
Speaker 1: It is one day out of three hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: five days. This group who founded the Academy nineteen twenty seven,
Speaker 1: they really had a vision for this organization that extended
Speaker 1: way beyond, you know, an awards ceremony. In the original charters,
Speaker 1: they talked about, let's create a library, let's preserve this
Speaker 1: art form of motion pictures. So as soon as they could,
Speaker 1: they started collecting scripts and collecting artifacts from movies, posters,
Speaker 1: production design drawings. They started collecting this all year long
Speaker 1: until they've been built a library and built a film archive.
Speaker 1: What you see on Oscar Night is an event that
Speaker 1: helps to fund all of that collection, all of these
Speaker 1: programs all year long. It's sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, the Library of Congress is devoted to our
Speaker 1: our history in books and a lot of other things.
Speaker 1: That's what the Academy is from movies. And I think
Speaker 1: I know the answer to this question. But you keep
Speaker 1: the names of the Academy members confidential? Why is that?
Speaker 1: We don't. We used to, but we don't. You know,
Speaker 1: it used to be perceived as even a very Los
Speaker 1: Angeles centric community. You know, people didn't even know how
Speaker 1: to become a member, or how you would even apply
Speaker 1: to become a member, or what's the requirements for becoming
Speaker 1: a member. So it was sort of like even if
Speaker 1: you were from New York, it was hard to understand
Speaker 1: what was going on. So now we are, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to mystify the process for filmmakers all over the world.
Speaker 1: After the break, Don Hudson and I talk about the
Speaker 1: tweet heard round the industry. I'm Anita Hill, this is
Speaker 1: getting even Oscar special. I'm talking to Don Hudson, CEO
Speaker 1: of the Academy of Motion Pictures, about inclusion in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: You began at the Academy in twenty eleven, and I've
Speaker 1: actually heard you say that from the minute that you
Speaker 1: arrived in the position, you know, your board made it
Speaker 1: very clear that the industry was changing and that the
Speaker 1: Academy needed to change. So that was part of I'm
Speaker 1: sure what attracted you to the Academy, and what attracted
Speaker 1: them to you was that they thought that you could
Speaker 1: be that person to bring about some of the things
Speaker 1: that we were already talking about. But in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: Sleepral Ryan tweeted Oscar so White they asked to touch
Speaker 1: my hair, which became a joke in a sense, but
Speaker 1: the tweet went viral and it really did china light
Speaker 1: on the Academy that I think surprised some people in
Speaker 1: the public, but also sparked even more of an urgency
Speaker 1: for the change. Is that correct? Correct? That I was
Speaker 1: invited in because the Academy wanted to be more modern
Speaker 1: and contemporary and be a part of the contemporary world
Speaker 1: of filmmaking, and they felt they had become a little
Speaker 1: removed from it. But when I got there, the practices
Speaker 1: had been put in place. It was just reinforcing this
Speaker 1: kind of older boys club, you know, And because when
Speaker 1: I got there, I was like, wow, I'm the only
Speaker 1: I felt like I wasn't the only woman in the boardroom,
Speaker 1: but there was just a few of us. And you know,
Speaker 1: you fought for this all your life. It's a very
Speaker 1: different feeling when you're just one or two female voices
Speaker 1: in the room. It was intimidating for me. It was intimidating.
Speaker 1: And luckily there were a lot of male and female
Speaker 1: governors who reached out and said no, no no, no, we
Speaker 1: want this change. Come on, you know, please keep keep
Speaker 1: talking to us. But it was hard for them to
Speaker 1: see at first the practices that were in place that
Speaker 1: would be exclusionary. You know, someone at just a member
Speaker 1: commented to me one time when I first started, and
Speaker 1: he said, well, look, if anyone is good, they're already
Speaker 1: a member of the Academy. And I said, I know people.
Speaker 1: I can tell you people right now off the top
Speaker 1: of my head, twenty five people now who are not
Speaker 1: members of the Academy, who are the top top in
Speaker 1: the field. So we can't say we have everybody good here.
Speaker 1: So I think We began that commitment to change in
Speaker 1: twenty eleven. When I started, you know, began very slowly,
Speaker 1: but it was like it was first of all, it
Speaker 1: was kind of an education of really, are we are
Speaker 1: we that exclusionary? And you say yes, because we have
Speaker 1: you know, eight percent you know, or even the fewer
Speaker 1: than eight percent, I think it was six percent, you know,
Speaker 1: people of color in our whole membership. We have twenty
Speaker 1: just twenty two percent women in our whole membership. We're
Speaker 1: not reaching all the artists, I'll tell you, you you know,
Speaker 1: like this is bad or this is not representative of
Speaker 1: the best of the best. But what happened when we
Speaker 1: had our second year of all white actor nominees, because
Speaker 1: that's really what the public looks at, you know, that's
Speaker 1: the most visible nominees with Best Picture and Director. But
Speaker 1: there's nothing like being called out publicly in a crisis
Speaker 1: like that that really motivates everybody to make very bold
Speaker 1: changes very quickly. So after the os are so White,
Speaker 1: we created something called twenty We've committed to doubling the
Speaker 1: number of women and doubling the number of people from
Speaker 1: underrepresenting racial methanic groups in our membership. Well, it sometimes
Speaker 1: it takes a spark or somebody from the outside to
Speaker 1: really draw attention, to get your attention, it does take
Speaker 1: a while to identify the problem. Believe me, I understand
Speaker 1: that working with Hollywood Commission, that it takes a while
Speaker 1: to really identify the problem, convince people that it is
Speaker 1: a problem, convince people that you can solve the problem right,
Speaker 1: and that you're all going to be better off if
Speaker 1: you do so. I think that's a process. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you're saying that. When I came in, there
Speaker 1: was no perceived crisis or emergency. There was like, well,
Speaker 1: everything's fine here. Some people felt we needed to do
Speaker 1: things differently, but some people were like, well, we've got
Speaker 1: a great show. The numbers are great. I've got the
Speaker 1: number one entertainment show in the world. We've got a
Speaker 1: brand that's recognized everywhere. What's your problem you know? Here?
Speaker 1: And we were just like, well, there's a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: Let's start with these, you know. Let's start with starting,
Speaker 1: you know, being more transparent and how the membership process works.
Speaker 1: Let's start with allowing access to people who are working
Speaker 1: on films to vote in the Academy Awards. We want
Speaker 1: more representation in the storylines and then the people in
Speaker 1: front from back of the camera, because it says, you know, hey,
Speaker 1: this can be your team too, And if you know,
Speaker 1: if the winners of the Oscars or this homogenious group,
Speaker 1: it doesn't say, come in, come play with us. So
Speaker 1: I think the Oscars are much more important than actually
Speaker 1: winning a statuette. I think it's what it represents to
Speaker 1: the world, and that's why we want to make them
Speaker 1: this representative. The Academy's representative. Filmmaking is representative. Are you
Speaker 1: satisfied with the progress that you've made? You have results?
Speaker 1: Is this enough? No, it's not enough. It's still so
Speaker 1: painful to see different communities not represented proportionately, both in
Speaker 1: the companies who are making and distributing films and in
Speaker 1: the films themselves. Which films get chosen to be released
Speaker 1: and to be promoted or to be funded. Films are
Speaker 1: primarily made by white men, and the actors are primarily
Speaker 1: white and mail. That's what the public season. That's the art,
Speaker 1: the narrative we're putting out into the world, The narratives
Speaker 1: we're putting out to the world. You know, when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, movies had such a profound influence on me.
Speaker 1: And then I went to college and I saw international films,
Speaker 1: I saw Burgman films, I saw for Leaning film. I thought,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's a whole world I didn't existed.
Speaker 1: Then I even saw films you know that dramatize the
Speaker 1: South and my family situation. And I learned about myself
Speaker 1: and I learned different ways of thinking. And I know
Speaker 1: that narrative and movies have that impact on everyone across
Speaker 1: the world. They need to be as honest and representative
Speaker 1: as the world is. So no, I'm not satisfied. But
Speaker 1: am I gratified with the progress we have made. Yes,
Speaker 1: very much, with all of the changes, all of the
Speaker 1: need for change, and really a movement I see inside
Speaker 1: the industry calling for a change. Do you think that
Speaker 1: the pieces that you are putting in place right now
Speaker 1: and probably will continue until you clean out your desk
Speaker 1: and leave, will leave a lasting impression and will have
Speaker 1: a lasting effect. It's a great question, Anita, and I
Speaker 1: absolutely do believe that, because in order for us to
Speaker 1: be relevant and important and a symbol of aspiration for
Speaker 1: the future, we have to reflect our world in all
Speaker 1: its diversity. This is not a temporary movement. I have
Speaker 1: no doubt that these changes will not last. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you for your leadership, thank you for all of
Speaker 1: the measures you put in place, and thank you for
Speaker 1: just being true to your passion. Thank you, Anita, and
Speaker 1: thank you for the same thing, and thank you. I
Speaker 1: did want to say one thing with the Hollywood Film
Speaker 1: Commission when you'd agreed to lead, that that was a
Speaker 1: very bright day for Hollywood because we knew this was
Speaker 1: going to happen. You were serious and just what you
Speaker 1: symbolize for us, for women, for equity, for inclusion, and
Speaker 1: you're putting your time. I'm into this organization. It's meant
Speaker 1: a lot to us, and that is part of the
Speaker 1: reason why these changes are here to stay. The fact
Speaker 1: that this girl from Oklahoma sitting with me here and
Speaker 1: I from Arkansas are here on a podcast to talk
Speaker 1: about conclusion in Hollywood. I think that neither path could
Speaker 1: have been predicted. I mean, when I read that you
Speaker 1: were originally from Arkansas, I thought, oh, yeah, that's maybe
Speaker 1: that's why we hit it off. We're in this together,
Speaker 1: so yes, no, I can count on you as a partner.
Speaker 1: Yes you can, as you know. Yes, I don't know
Speaker 1: if people know I call you many times in the
Speaker 1: late hours to get advice. I appreciate that, Yes, you're great.
Speaker 1: The twenty twenty two Academy Award nominees may not be
Speaker 1: as racially diverse as last year slate, but there is
Speaker 1: much to celebrate about this year's nominated class. Two queer
Speaker 1: women are nominated for awards, Arianna DeVos and Kristen Stewart.
Speaker 1: King Richard, a dramatized telling of Richard Venus, and Serena
Speaker 1: Williams's Triumphant Journey, is nominated for six Academy Awards, and Coda,
Speaker 1: a film about a deaf family that features deaf actors
Speaker 1: in its leading roles, received three nominations, including Best Picture.
Speaker 1: No one knows who'll take home the big prize on
Speaker 1: Sunday Night, But this year, when you hear the winners
Speaker 1: thank the Academy, you'll at least know who they're talking about.
Speaker 1: On the same night, twenty years ago that Halle Berry
Speaker 1: became the first black woman to win the Award for
Speaker 1: Best Actress, Sidney Poitier received an Honorary Oscar for his
Speaker 1: out standing role as an artist and a human being.
Speaker 1: I accept this award and memory of all the African
Speaker 1: American actors and actresses who went before me in the
Speaker 1: difficult years on whose shoulders I was privileged to stand
Speaker 1: to see where I might go. I know that the
Speaker 1: path the late actor forge will continue to draw artists
Speaker 1: of color to Hollywood, and I hope that the entertainment
Speaker 1: industry will embrace its role as a mirror to the world,
Speaker 1: in the stories it tells and in the people who
Speaker 1: tell them. Here I am this evening at the end
Speaker 1: of a journey that in nineteen forty nine would have
Speaker 1: been considered almost impossible, and in fact, might never have
Speaker 1: been set in motion were there not an untold number
Speaker 1: of courageous, unselfish choices made by a handful of visionary
Speaker 1: American filmmakers, directors, writers and producers. Thank You. Getting Even
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries and is written and
Speaker 1: hosted by me Anita Hill. It is produced by Mola
Speaker 1: Board and Brittany Brown. Our editor is Sarah Kramer, our
Speaker 1: engineer is Amanda kay Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias.
Speaker 1: Louis Gara composed original music for the show. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers are Mia Lobel and Letal malad Our, Director of
Speaker 1: development is Justine Lane at Pushkin thanks to Heather Fane,
Speaker 1: Carl Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, John Schnar, and Jacob Weisberg.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Anita Hill and
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Anita Hill. You can find Pushkin on
Speaker 1: all social platforms at pushkin Pods, and you can sign
Speaker 1: up for our newsletter at pushkin dot fm. If you
Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing
Speaker 1: to Pushkin Plus. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can
Speaker 1: hear Getting Even and other Pushkin shows add free and
Speaker 1: receive exclusive bonus episodes. Sign up on the Getting Even
Speaker 1: show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm.
Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen