Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt's and today we're asking the question our experiences better
Speaker 1: than stuff? This is gonna be a great episode. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you that right now, this is gonna be
Speaker 1: a good episode because for for us, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a question we ask ourselves, and I think this
Speaker 1: is a question that a lot of our peers, a
Speaker 1: lot of folks in our generation, that they're wondering. You know,
Speaker 1: this is something we've heard, that experiences are better than stuff.
Speaker 1: But this is something that we're going to dive into
Speaker 1: and hopefully we're gonna get to the bottom of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's typically I feel like at this point it's stated
Speaker 1: in fact, like the experiences are definitely better than stuff,
Speaker 1: and there can be some truth to that, but we're
Speaker 1: gonna dive a little bit deeper and kind of do
Speaker 1: an analysis because it is worth bringing up. And I
Speaker 1: appreciate that you told everyone and that this is going
Speaker 1: to be a good episode, because it will be. It
Speaker 1: can be hit or missed right this show, So it's
Speaker 1: good to be optimistic. And normally that's your role in
Speaker 1: our relationship that I'm sort of the Debbie downer type
Speaker 1: of person. But but yeah, regardless of which side of
Speaker 1: the fence you land on, whether you do side and
Speaker 1: maybe a little more with stuff, whether you appreciate experiences more,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about ways to do those things correctly
Speaker 1: and as well as you know, we're gonna mention some
Speaker 1: sort of filters to look at purchases through in order
Speaker 1: for you to decide whether or not that that is
Speaker 1: going to be a wise move for you to make.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited to to talk about this with you,
Speaker 1: my friend. Yeah, should be good, buddy. A Right Before
Speaker 1: we get to that, though, I wanted to share a
Speaker 1: recent thing that happened in our household. And we had
Speaker 1: a minor fender bender the other day in our brand
Speaker 1: new to us but really old minivan. And so, how
Speaker 1: old does that mini Vannigan is? It's sixteen? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. No, so fourteen years sorry, fourteen
Speaker 1: years old. So I just like saying that because it's
Speaker 1: so freaking old, and I love it. Like I'm not
Speaker 1: at all trying to hate on you. I think that
Speaker 1: it's the coolest thing that you guys are driving such
Speaker 1: an old vehicle, because like we're going to discuss in
Speaker 1: this episode. It shines a light on the things that
Speaker 1: you value and the things that you don't value quite
Speaker 1: as much. Yeah, and sorry for the distraction, No, no worries,
Speaker 1: and and so I think yet part of what also
Speaker 1: it is nice about driving an older car is that
Speaker 1: when you do get dings or dense it's just not
Speaker 1: nearly Yeah, it's like, okay, cool, we get a scrape
Speaker 1: down the side, but it's a five thousand dollar fourteen
Speaker 1: year old cars. We don't really care that much. Well, minivan,
Speaker 1: but okay, and still still a bummer though. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: long had had you guys had it? I think less
Speaker 1: than a week. And so I'm not gonna name names
Speaker 1: or anything, but one of the members of our family
Speaker 1: was driving this we can drive, Yeah, who can drive?
Speaker 1: There's only two of us who can And he or she,
Speaker 1: who will remain unnamed, was driving this minivan and accidentally
Speaker 1: scraped the side of a friend's car when he or
Speaker 1: she was dropping off the children at a friend's house.
Speaker 1: And so this, you know, not really a big deal.
Speaker 1: Our friends were really cool about it. Obviously. We offered
Speaker 1: to pay for it to get fixed, and they took
Speaker 1: it to a couple of auto shot and it was
Speaker 1: a bummer because it's almost eight hundred bucks to to
Speaker 1: repair this car. We're not repairing our car because you know,
Speaker 1: the scrape whatever who cares, but obviously paying to fix
Speaker 1: our friends car and even just I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about minor fender bendor fixes and how you approach those.
Speaker 1: And I think most people instantly assume that they should
Speaker 1: be making an insurance claim when almost anything happens to
Speaker 1: their vehicle. Right, Folks are thinking, something happened, I want
Speaker 1: to pay the hunter bucks and get it fixed, yeah,
Speaker 1: or my deductibles five hundred. This thing cost a hundred bucks. Sweet,
Speaker 1: I'm coming out three dollars ahead. But that's just not
Speaker 1: the case. And so what we did was we paid
Speaker 1: the bill and full and didn't involve insurance at all.
Speaker 1: And when you make an insurance claim, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: paying increased rates typically for three years after after the fact.
Speaker 1: And there's some insurers to do stuff like accident forgiveness,
Speaker 1: but typically on the whole, you're gonna pay more for
Speaker 1: your insurance premiums every single month for three years to
Speaker 1: come by making that claim at least man. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's gonna reflect poorly if you go shop around and
Speaker 1: try to go with another company. So these are the
Speaker 1: kind of things you want to take into consideration. And
Speaker 1: one thing I think is really important to mention in
Speaker 1: here is that if people haven't looked at their deductible
Speaker 1: lately on their car insurance, they should strongly consider raising
Speaker 1: that deductible because what it does is it lowers your premiums,
Speaker 1: but it also makes you less likely to file a claim,
Speaker 1: and the claims it's insurances is what you want when
Speaker 1: you absolutely need it. It's not something that you want
Speaker 1: to use on a whim, yeah, exactly. And then you
Speaker 1: do want to make sure you have enough money set
Speaker 1: aside to cover that deductible completely for the situation to arise. Well, Joel,
Speaker 1: you mentioned three years. Well, the reason I said, well
Speaker 1: at least three years is because we were actually in
Speaker 1: a very similar situation five years ago and that junk
Speaker 1: is still on our record. Maybe it's just what our
Speaker 1: insurance provider, you know, is as one of their things
Speaker 1: that they hang on to the little thunder benders like
Speaker 1: that in the neighborhood for that long. But this was
Speaker 1: an incident that required a little bit more money and
Speaker 1: at the time, we kind of had a lot going on.
Speaker 1: We're flipping and selling a house, we're moving into another
Speaker 1: home at the same time, and it was going to
Speaker 1: be a more expensive fix as well. And so in
Speaker 1: that case, we thought, you know what, I think this
Speaker 1: is a time when when we are going to do insurance.
Speaker 1: But dude, in retrospect, I completely wish that we would
Speaker 1: have just handled it ourselves, right, how do we not
Speaker 1: involved insurance and paid person a person. We would have
Speaker 1: come out ahead for sure. And so, yeah, if if
Speaker 1: you're in a small incident like that, hopefully you can
Speaker 1: be a little more cautious and be thoughtful as to
Speaker 1: the implications that that one little incident is going to
Speaker 1: have years down the road. Definitely three, maybe even five
Speaker 1: if you're with my career, Yeah, five years. That's that's
Speaker 1: even worse, right, You're you're paying increased premiums for that
Speaker 1: long of a period, and depending on what insure you're
Speaker 1: getting quotes from, they're seeing that on your clue report,
Speaker 1: which we've talked about on the show before. Spent a minute. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's this essentially database for insurers to look at
Speaker 1: and they see the claims that you filed so every
Speaker 1: claim that you file, I mean, it just goes against you.
Speaker 1: It hurts you when you're shopping your insurance around, which
Speaker 1: is something you should do, you know, on the rag
Speaker 1: in order to save money. So, yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: bummer to kind of have that scrape to our new minivan.
Speaker 1: It was a bummer that that happened to our friends.
Speaker 1: But ultimately, you know what, not that big of a
Speaker 1: deal when you can handle it yourself and leave insurance
Speaker 1: out of the equations that you're not paying those increased
Speaker 1: premium for years to come, that's where it really stinks. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: that is rights. So let's go ahead and introduce the
Speaker 1: beer that we're gonna have on this episode. We are
Speaker 1: drinking Divided Sky, which is an I p A from
Speaker 1: Four Hands Brewery and uh listener Justin sent this one
Speaker 1: to us, and he sent us a nice little note
Speaker 1: here as well. He said he's learned from the podcast
Speaker 1: that on one hand, money is not a scary or
Speaker 1: evil concept, and on the other hand, it's not the
Speaker 1: ultimate aspiration either. It's simply a tool to help unlock
Speaker 1: what you enjoy in life, such as freedom, convenience, adventure,
Speaker 1: and security. Man, what a great way to to think
Speaker 1: about money in the proper light, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's awesome. I mean I think that's exactly
Speaker 1: what we hope people take away, right, We want them
Speaker 1: to know because so many people think it money's evil,
Speaker 1: money's terrible, or money scary, and yeah, it's not. It
Speaker 1: is a tool to be used well. And on the
Speaker 1: other hand, man, it's also something to not seek after.
Speaker 1: Like you said as well, that's a path that we
Speaker 1: try to not go down when it comes to how
Speaker 1: we view money. It's important, but it's not something that
Speaker 1: we need to, you know, seek with every fiber of
Speaker 1: our being obsessed over for sure. We'll talk about this
Speaker 1: beer and our thoughts on it at the end of
Speaker 1: the show. Big thanks to Justin for sending in our way.
Speaker 1: But Matt, let's get onto the subject at hand. And
Speaker 1: today on the show, we're asking the question our experiences
Speaker 1: better than stuff? And like you mentioned at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the show, that's a common question right now, but
Speaker 1: typically people come down, at least now kind of on
Speaker 1: the side of experiences. It seems like no dub experiences are,
Speaker 1: of course better than stuff. And I think part of
Speaker 1: that is this kind of backlash against the prior generation
Speaker 1: that did seem to kind of fuel this consumeristic mindset
Speaker 1: and we live We're looking at you Gen xers. It's
Speaker 1: all your fault, okay, Boomer. We live in this consumeristic
Speaker 1: society and most of us we've grown up in this
Speaker 1: culture that equates buying things with greater levels of happiness,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of what we're reacting to. Studies show though,
Speaker 1: that our increased overall societal wealth has led to less
Speaker 1: happiness and greater psychological turmoil. But of the overall economy,
Speaker 1: Matt is driven by consumer we're spending. So on the
Speaker 1: flip side, younger Americans seem to value experiences more than stuff,
Speaker 1: and I can understand why, but we have to ask
Speaker 1: the question, our experiences a better use of our money?
Speaker 1: What we definitely want to put our money towards things
Speaker 1: that we actually value and avoid spending mindlessly. Right, That's
Speaker 1: a huge part of what we talked about on the show.
Speaker 1: But does that necessarily mean experiences provide a better return
Speaker 1: than just buying stuff? And in this conversation, we also
Speaker 1: have to address kind of our quest for happiness overall?
Speaker 1: Are we going to be able to find more happiness
Speaker 1: through greater spending on cool experiences or through buying nicer stuff.
Speaker 1: So we'll talk big picture, and we'll also get into
Speaker 1: some practical ways that we can think through how we
Speaker 1: spend our money when we're talking about both of these things. Well, Man,
Speaker 1: on the note of experiences, you and I were both
Speaker 1: fans of a great experience, right. I recently talked about
Speaker 1: my desire to hit up a World Cup match on
Speaker 1: the show World Cup is coming to North America. You
Speaker 1: gotta make it happy to be there. But experiences, though,
Speaker 1: like they have trended in a consumeristic direction, and it
Speaker 1: feels like that they're going down a similar path as
Speaker 1: the stuff in our lives. It seems to me that
Speaker 1: folks are prioritizing travel and getting those likes on Instagram, Like,
Speaker 1: is it really for the experience or are you just
Speaker 1: basically trying to signal status like we once did with stuff,
Speaker 1: consistently buying new stuff that arise on your doorstep the
Speaker 1: next day, Like, that's not a great way to build
Speaker 1: your savings. Of course, but the way that we talk
Speaker 1: about experiences has increasingly taken on some of the same
Speaker 1: characteristics of what we disliked about how we bought things,
Speaker 1: So should we value experiences more? Like? That's the question
Speaker 1: that we need to ask ourselves. But part of the
Speaker 1: difficulty in tackling this topic is that it's hard to
Speaker 1: quantify an experience, Like how do you determine a proper value?
Speaker 1: These are questions that each of us, like all of
Speaker 1: us individually, that we'll need to ask ourselves as we
Speaker 1: spend money on the different fund stuff in our lives. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I definitely think there are some builders that can help
Speaker 1: us think through how we buy experiences, how we purchase
Speaker 1: stuff that can have a major influence on kind of
Speaker 1: the benefit that we get from both. And so we'll
Speaker 1: get into some of those things in just a second,
Speaker 1: but before we do, I wanted to ask you. We're
Speaker 1: human as well, right, and we make we make mistakes.
Speaker 1: Were not immune to the cause of like overspending and
Speaker 1: mindlessly buying a thing or an experience. So what are
Speaker 1: some of the ways that you're attempted to over consume?
Speaker 1: And I won't just leave you out there hanging to dry,
Speaker 1: I'll answer the questions. Yeah, So, like, what what is
Speaker 1: it that you struggle with? What's a way that you're
Speaker 1: tempted to kind of mindlessly purchase a stuff or an experience. Yeah, Like, well,
Speaker 1: I feel like Kate and I we tend to be
Speaker 1: like minimalists, right, Like there's not a ton of stuff
Speaker 1: in our lives, but whatever it is that we do
Speaker 1: spend money on, we tend to spend a lot of
Speaker 1: money on it, right. And so the first thing that
Speaker 1: came to my mind is is our house. I mean,
Speaker 1: we live in a pretty expensive home, and we recently
Speaker 1: finished our renovation to get it closer to how we
Speaker 1: can envision ourselves being here, and so we've been really
Speaker 1: mindful about it. But I guess what I'm realizing is
Speaker 1: the more time that I spend thinking about something or
Speaker 1: working on something, I think, the more I'm tempted to
Speaker 1: spend in that direction, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, completely,
Speaker 1: And so like it's almost it's less of a category
Speaker 1: of items or a certain type of experience, you know,
Speaker 1: Like broadly speaking, it's it's almost as if like the
Speaker 1: more time and more proficient I become in a certain area,
Speaker 1: and the more I get sort of sucked into that subculture, right,
Speaker 1: the subculture of home renovation. And there's no end to
Speaker 1: what you could do. No. Yeah, it's that's why there
Speaker 1: shows all over TV this house and I don't I
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything. There's like multiple channels dedicated home renovation
Speaker 1: if you have cable, And I know my my mom
Speaker 1: is obsessed with Chip and Joyana and they're getting their
Speaker 1: own network now, which is insane. There's already HDTV. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be more. You know, there's a craze around it,
Speaker 1: for sure. I know people make pilgrimages to where they're from.
Speaker 1: My mom might have done it. I didn't know if
Speaker 1: you're going to share that, but no, I don't remember
Speaker 1: when when you shared that with me, I was like,
Speaker 1: no way, so into it. Literally, they stayed in one
Speaker 1: of the houses that Chip and Joyana renovated, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure they loved it. They had the best time ever exactly.
Speaker 1: So in their case, that was an experience. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and and I think, like, honestly, for them, it was
Speaker 1: a really meaningful experience. Yes, yeah, But on that note,
Speaker 1: I think the same thing can be applied to anything.
Speaker 1: I researched and basically armed myself with knowledge, right, and
Speaker 1: so I feel like I did something similar when it
Speaker 1: came to cargo bikes. Like, I researched the heck out
Speaker 1: of it and I just got really into it. And
Speaker 1: so the more into something I get, because I have
Speaker 1: that knowledge, I kind of released myself from responsibility a
Speaker 1: little bit, and I tend to overspend, loosen the purse strings.
Speaker 1: Because you felt like you knew more about it, I
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable with it, and I therefore we'll spend
Speaker 1: more dollars, all right. So I think the way that
Speaker 1: we let me hear it, I think the way that
Speaker 1: we mess this up is we do prioritize a certain
Speaker 1: amount of eating out, and I think when we do
Speaker 1: it mindfully, it's really really good. Like in particular our
Speaker 1: date nights. I like going out and get some cheap
Speaker 1: tacos or some cheap barbecue or whatever, just as much
Speaker 1: as the next person sounds good. But you know, we
Speaker 1: also like going to a nicer place sometimes, and so
Speaker 1: we don't mind dropping that money on a decent meal out.
Speaker 1: But I think the problem can be for us where
Speaker 1: we end up spending mindlessly is when we're just not
Speaker 1: thoughtful about our food and we're last minute eating out.
Speaker 1: We're grabbing a pizza on a Friday night and dropping
Speaker 1: twenty bucks because we just didn't think ahead about dinner
Speaker 1: or we didn't plan our meals accordingly, and and that's
Speaker 1: I have no problem spending money eating out when we're
Speaker 1: thoughtful about it, but I think when we do it
Speaker 1: in that way, that's twenty bucks that I have a
Speaker 1: hard time spending, and then it just feels like it
Speaker 1: was wasted and feels a little more reactive than something
Speaker 1: that you set out to do. Yeah, exactly, because because
Speaker 1: if it was Monday and you're looking ahead to the weekend,
Speaker 1: you said, you know what, Friday, Friday night, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be pizza night. We're gonna watch a movie. You know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be whatever pizza in the movie night. That's
Speaker 1: a whole different thing then last minute being like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's just grab a quick pizza, right, Yeah, I feel you.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's at least one way in which I'm
Speaker 1: tempted to overspend, and we do sometimes, and that's something
Speaker 1: that we need to be more intentional about. But we're
Speaker 1: talking about the difference between spending on experiences and stuff,
Speaker 1: and there is I think a right way in a
Speaker 1: wrong way to go about spending in both categories. And
Speaker 1: let's kind of get into those filters that we need
Speaker 1: to run through in order to make smart decisions when
Speaker 1: we're buying either. And we'll get to that right up
Speaker 1: to this break, all right, Joel, we're back from the break,
Speaker 1: And it's good to mention too that we're not necessarily
Speaker 1: in favor of experiences over stuff or stuff even over experiences.
Speaker 1: I think there's ways though, that we can approach both
Speaker 1: of those where we're kind of maximizing the enjoyment that
Speaker 1: we get out of them, and a lot of times
Speaker 1: that involves is spending less money. Yeah, I think of
Speaker 1: it like a deadlocked arm wrestling match, right, experiences and
Speaker 1: stuff going at it, but they're both equally strong, and
Speaker 1: so neither of them them wins. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think that's a good way to think of it. Man,
Speaker 1: you're just trying to find a way to throw an
Speaker 1: arm wrestling analogy in there, because I know you love
Speaker 1: arm wrestling specifically. I remember, like one of the first
Speaker 1: times we hung out, you kind of like challenged me
Speaker 1: to an arm wrestling match over a little argument with
Speaker 1: God that we were in over dinner, and you remember that.
Speaker 1: I probably used to do that more when I was younger.
Speaker 1: Pretty much anytime you're hanging out with you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: you an arm wrestling and it's not because you're jacked
Speaker 1: or anything. I don't know really why you wanted darmst
Speaker 1: letter definitely not jacked. You're just looking to fight prove
Speaker 1: our manhood, you know. Well here's the thing, though, when
Speaker 1: it comes to experiences, they don't have to actually cost
Speaker 1: much or even any money at all. It could just
Speaker 1: be a free arm wrestling match. It shouldn't be about
Speaker 1: taking a vacation to Mashu Pichu and getting that photo
Speaker 1: on top of that mountain, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: I do want to go there, by the way, at
Speaker 1: some point me too. For sure. It looks amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We're not anti Machu Picchu for sure. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: like vacations, but we want to make sure that we're
Speaker 1: focusing as well on the day to day experiences, right
Speaker 1: like getting coffee with an old friend or even just
Speaker 1: waking up early to work out. That doesn't have to
Speaker 1: cost you any money to go for a run, but
Speaker 1: even two things like playing with your kids in the yard,
Speaker 1: right like, these are all things that you can do
Speaker 1: for little to know money at all. And while we
Speaker 1: both like a nice trip or a nice vacation. Every
Speaker 1: now and then, Man, we want to make sure that
Speaker 1: we are pushing back against the mindset of vacation envy
Speaker 1: which can take hold of us, causing us to to
Speaker 1: seek those different experiences for fulfillment. Yeah. And I think
Speaker 1: if we're trying to look through the lens of proper
Speaker 1: filter for how we make decisions when we do decide
Speaker 1: to spend our money on an experience. One it is
Speaker 1: looking at the free things in our life as beautiful experiences,
Speaker 1: because there are so many things that if we were
Speaker 1: to view it properly and to think about it well,
Speaker 1: we would notice that those experiences are rich and they're
Speaker 1: meaningful and they didn't cost any money. And I think
Speaker 1: the other thing too, when you're dropping money on an experience,
Speaker 1: to make sure it has its full impact for you
Speaker 1: and that it is truly meaningful and that you feel
Speaker 1: like you've got your money's worth, The important thing to
Speaker 1: do is to soak it in. Oftentimes, so much of
Speaker 1: the enjoyment that we received from any type of experience,
Speaker 1: it's in the planning, in the anticipation of that experience,
Speaker 1: especially if it's a tripper event, right, if you've got
Speaker 1: concert tickets for a show that's in three months and
Speaker 1: you buy them and you know you're going with a friend,
Speaker 1: you have the joy of being able to talk about
Speaker 1: it and get excited in the lead up to it.
Speaker 1: And then it's making sure that you know all the
Speaker 1: lyrics to all the songs. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, you're playing
Speaker 1: that that CD on repeat because we still listen to CDs, right,
Speaker 1: Amazon Music Dog. I think last year actually more records
Speaker 1: were sold than c d s, which is just funny.
Speaker 1: Then records on the comeback. But yeah, and and same
Speaker 1: thing with a trip, right, there's so much joy in
Speaker 1: the anticipation of that trip, and especially if you're sharing
Speaker 1: it with someone else, But so much of the joy
Speaker 1: that you get from an experiences in the lead up
Speaker 1: and then when you're in the experience, well, bask in
Speaker 1: the moment. This isn't the time to be checking your
Speaker 1: work email or to be on Instagram and see what
Speaker 1: others are up to, Matt, have you ever done that,
Speaker 1: been on an awesome trip, flipped open Instagram at some
Speaker 1: point and you're like, oh man, other people are doing
Speaker 1: cool stuff. My trip doesn't seem nearly as cool. I
Speaker 1: feel like that is totally something that happens in our culture.
Speaker 1: It's something I've been susceptible to. I just don't want
Speaker 1: to do that. I want to be in the moment
Speaker 1: and I want to enjoy it to the fullest. And
Speaker 1: I think there are simple traps that we can fall
Speaker 1: into that can kind of cheapen our experience, and we
Speaker 1: don't want to do that. We want to fully enjoy it, right, Yeah, man, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because I mean just think about the memories that you're
Speaker 1: missing out on by being on your dumb phone, right
Speaker 1: and then the here the other thing too is on
Speaker 1: the back end of it, like on the back end
Speaker 1: of the trip, even just reflecting and taking a second
Speaker 1: to appreciate like what you've done or what you've accomplished.
Speaker 1: Just like that idea of experience hopping, right when you're
Speaker 1: going from one trip to the next, where you're just
Speaker 1: constantly just kind of looking ahead to the next thing
Speaker 1: just to kind of check these boxes off your list.
Speaker 1: That is the sort of mindless consumption that we're trying
Speaker 1: to avoid. Yeah, experiences, based on how you approach them,
Speaker 1: can either be hyper meaningful or they can lose a
Speaker 1: lot of meaning. Ultimately, so much of it comes down
Speaker 1: to your approach and your ability to kind of soak
Speaker 1: it in and enjoy it. And I feel like this
Speaker 1: is a great argument too against experiences, right because just
Speaker 1: like we can, you know, we buy shoes or whatever
Speaker 1: it is that we you know, we compulsively buy on Amazon,
Speaker 1: and you know, we use them for a little bit,
Speaker 1: but then they just end up in our closet. It's
Speaker 1: so easy to do the same thing with trips, Like
Speaker 1: we can go on all these different trips and all
Speaker 1: these different vacations, and instead of enjoying them to the
Speaker 1: max and fully immersing ourselves, that trip can just get
Speaker 1: translated into just a few pictures on your phone that
Speaker 1: you you know, you threw up on social media. I
Speaker 1: do kind of equate it to those, you know, different
Speaker 1: items that we might be tempted to purchase online and
Speaker 1: we just end up tossing those items in the closet
Speaker 1: where we basically forget about them. Yeah, that definitely happens,
Speaker 1: all right, Matt, Let's talk about how we approach buying stuff,
Speaker 1: and I think there are definitely some helpful approaches so
Speaker 1: that we can buy stuff the right way too. So
Speaker 1: I feel like in this conversation. Right, we've already mentioned things.
Speaker 1: They normally get a bad rap. But owning stuff isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily the problem. It's our approach to owning things. So
Speaker 1: how can we make purchasing stuff less of a negative
Speaker 1: in our lives? And I think there are a few
Speaker 1: ways we can do that. One is to just admit
Speaker 1: that sometimes there as stuff that we really appreciate. Like
Speaker 1: for me, I like having a lot of art on
Speaker 1: our walls. We've got a lot of pieces by local artists,
Speaker 1: and that's stuff, right, cost money, but it's insanely meaningful
Speaker 1: to me. I see it every day. Matt. We ride bikes.
Speaker 1: Those bikes are super important to us. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: my bike. Yeah, yeah, there, it's great. They have a
Speaker 1: lot of utility and we get a lot of joy
Speaker 1: out of them. So it's not the stuff that's inherently bad.
Speaker 1: And sometimes that becomes the mantra in this conversation. But
Speaker 1: it's important to figure out whether or not our purchases
Speaker 1: align with our values. And this is where, like track
Speaker 1: our spending can be so helpful because it actually allows
Speaker 1: us to see where our money is going. And if
Speaker 1: we see where our money is going, we can actually
Speaker 1: look at the numbers and see whether those numbers reflect
Speaker 1: what we say our values are. And that's ultimately what
Speaker 1: we want for people. Matt right, that we want their
Speaker 1: money to be aligned with their values. And we're not
Speaker 1: all going to have the same values. But if you,
Speaker 1: as an individual can line up your spending with your
Speaker 1: values and the stuff you buy is reflective of that, well,
Speaker 1: then you're not being a mindless consumer. You're being intentional
Speaker 1: about your choices, and the stuff that you're buying is
Speaker 1: in all likelihood going to hold a lot more meaning
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, if you're gonna buy stuff, you want
Speaker 1: to make sure that you're making the correct purchases. Right.
Speaker 1: Something else to consider is let's talk about quality versus quantity.
Speaker 1: I think the aspect of buying stuff that leads to
Speaker 1: the most psychological harm is our continual pursuit of more.
Speaker 1: If we can prioritize fewer, nicer things, then I think
Speaker 1: we'll be choosing stuff that we can appreciate more and
Speaker 1: have in our lives longer. I think that can all
Speaker 1: us to avoid that perpetuation of consumerism. It's good not
Speaker 1: only for society but our mindset as well, And so
Speaker 1: finding ways to you know, purge stuff that we no
Speaker 1: longer want or need in our lives, and then to
Speaker 1: appreciate and be thankful for what we currently have that
Speaker 1: is serving us well, that can give us a better
Speaker 1: relationship to the things that we actually own. Yeah, Matt
Speaker 1: in the I didn't really watch the show, and I
Speaker 1: haven't read any of her books, but I know about
Speaker 1: Marie Condo, and I know that every time she tells
Speaker 1: someone to to give away an item, like when they're
Speaker 1: purging and they've got too much stuff, she tells you
Speaker 1: to to thank the item, which which is interesting, right,
Speaker 1: And I think it does like there's this psychological impact
Speaker 1: that it has on someone as they were releasing something
Speaker 1: and they're thanking it for its service. And I think
Speaker 1: if we almost need to do that with the stuff
Speaker 1: that we currently own, to a certain extent, be thankful
Speaker 1: for it. And I don't want to get woo woo
Speaker 1: and weird, but just be thankful for the things that
Speaker 1: you actually currently have that you're using, that are meaningful
Speaker 1: to you. And I think if we take that approach,
Speaker 1: we're less likely to be like, you know, I need
Speaker 1: more stuff. We can appreciate the quality things that we buy,
Speaker 1: and this has been a huge shift for me because
Speaker 1: I used to be someone who was all about buying
Speaker 1: stuff cheaply, as inexpensively as possible and having more of it.
Speaker 1: And now I've kind of taken a huge one eight
Speaker 1: on this and I'm all about owning fewer things that
Speaker 1: I'm going to utilize the heck out of and then
Speaker 1: are gonna be like super meaningful staples for me. Yeah, minimalist, Joel,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be your new new podcast. I don't think
Speaker 1: minimalists have as much art on the walls as I do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I'm definitely not a minimalist by any
Speaker 1: stretch of the imagination. But but it has been interesting
Speaker 1: to see that how it's changed my life and how
Speaker 1: it's changed my relationship to my stuff. Instead of having
Speaker 1: more stuff, it's like having this stuff that I actually appreciate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's better to have a few things that you really
Speaker 1: love than a bunch of stuff that you sort of like. Right,
Speaker 1: And something else We've got to mention as well, if
Speaker 1: you're looking to purchase some stuff, don't forget to buy
Speaker 1: a second hand. The more that we can get our
Speaker 1: stuff used instead of brand new. Obviously, when you're buying
Speaker 1: something used, oftentimes it's gonna cost you a lot less money.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, there's a good chance you
Speaker 1: can buy something that's higher quality for less money than
Speaker 1: you could buy something of lower quality just easily on
Speaker 1: the internet. Yeah, and and even like if you're comparing
Speaker 1: apples to apples, like we needed to get a new
Speaker 1: high chair for our four month old son. We didn't
Speaker 1: have one from the previous kids. I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: we did with it. We probably sold it to the
Speaker 1: yard sale or something like that. So we needed another one,
Speaker 1: and it would have been so easy for us just
Speaker 1: to do a quick purchase on Amazon. It is friction
Speaker 1: lest Yeah, we found the high chair we wanted. It
Speaker 1: was forty five bucks. And then I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: m let's take a quick look on Facebook yard sale.
Speaker 1: They're like eight people selling this exact same high chair.
Speaker 1: We found one right around the corner from us that
Speaker 1: was selling it for ten bucks. And I think ultimately
Speaker 1: just the increased friction, if you dedicate yourself to buying used,
Speaker 1: it can actually not only lower the price, but it
Speaker 1: makes you more intentional about the stuff that you actually
Speaker 1: do bring into your life. Because of the increased time
Speaker 1: and the nature of buying something used. Typically it makes
Speaker 1: you think twice about whether you really needed and so
Speaker 1: I don't know that was the case for us who
Speaker 1: took the approach to buy used as opposed to new,
Speaker 1: and it not only did it save us money, but
Speaker 1: I feel like it made us make a more thoughtful
Speaker 1: and intentional decision about bringing that new high chair into
Speaker 1: our lives in the first place. Yes, certainly, buying used,
Speaker 1: in buying secondhand, it definitely kind of gums up the
Speaker 1: consumption gears a little bit something else, Joel. Not being
Speaker 1: thoughtful with our stuff and our experiences that can cause
Speaker 1: us to get caught up in the rat race. And
Speaker 1: what does this cause us to do, Joel, This causes
Speaker 1: us to overwork, Right, we have to fund all these
Speaker 1: purchases that we're making. Yeah, I think that's an important
Speaker 1: thing to note, Matt. Like taking that approach of intentionality
Speaker 1: and how we think about experiences and stuff and how
Speaker 1: we spend our money in regards to both. Ultimately, it
Speaker 1: allows us to prioritize the things that truly matter and
Speaker 1: not be caught up in the rat race and be
Speaker 1: forced to work to pay for the things and experiences
Speaker 1: that didn't actually move the needle for us, and so
Speaker 1: that is an important part of this whole equation of
Speaker 1: spending mindfully. All Right, Joe, we're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 1: But basically what we're talking about here is mindful spending, right,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it can be difficult to figure out if
Speaker 1: you are spending mindfully, and so we're going to discuss
Speaker 1: a few sort of lenses that we can view our
Speaker 1: purchases through and we're gonna get to that next. All right, Matt,
Speaker 1: we're back from the breaking. We're asking the question today
Speaker 1: on the show. Our experience is better than stuff, and
Speaker 1: you know, there are some lenses that we have to
Speaker 1: consider in order to make a wise decision in regards
Speaker 1: to both. And we discussed how experiences lose their value
Speaker 1: when we mindlessly spend on those experiences like we often
Speaker 1: do when we're buying stuff. So how do we make
Speaker 1: a good decision before we buy what the core of it?
Speaker 1: It's mindful spending. That's what we're looking to do, and
Speaker 1: that's crucial whether we're talking about either of these things.
Speaker 1: But aligning our spending with what we truly value is
Speaker 1: going to lead to a lot more happiness in our lives,
Speaker 1: and that can be difficult to do. So let's specify
Speaker 1: a few of these lenses that really do help us
Speaker 1: make it more informed decision when we're thinking about purchasing
Speaker 1: either one. Yeah, I think the first thing that we
Speaker 1: need to do, man, is to look to others. Like
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about here our relationships, and so a
Speaker 1: question we should ask ourselves before spending money is how
Speaker 1: can this item or how can this experience add value
Speaker 1: to our lives by deepening meaningful relationships. This is often
Speaker 1: a reason why our generation tends to value experiences over stuff,
Speaker 1: because like we're often joining friends on these experiences, right
Speaker 1: like a vacation or a trip. But the same I
Speaker 1: think can be true of stuff as well. You know
Speaker 1: you already mentioned bikes, but it's it's one of our
Speaker 1: favorite things. It's something that can lead to countless free
Speaker 1: right like quote unquote free experiences that can allow for
Speaker 1: a relationship to deepened. I also think of another friend
Speaker 1: of ours who he's really in depends and he tease
Speaker 1: him about a lot because he has a really expensive
Speaker 1: fountain pens, all sorts of pens. But he goes to
Speaker 1: these different pen conventions and he's made a lot of friends.
Speaker 1: I think he's even gone on vacation, like on a
Speaker 1: trip with with a friend that he met at a
Speaker 1: pen convention. And so because of this item, these, you know,
Speaker 1: the off that he purchases, his life is richer and
Speaker 1: better because of it. He listens to podcasts about pens, yeah,
Speaker 1: which I didn't know that truly exists. Yeah, that's hardcore.
Speaker 1: I know, I didn't know that a thing. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're right, bonding over something, even a material possession, if
Speaker 1: you're into it enough, can lead to deeper relationships. Man.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're super into money. We go to a
Speaker 1: money nerd conference every year, and we've got great relationships
Speaker 1: with with so many people because of that, many of
Speaker 1: whom we've had as guests on the show. So although
Speaker 1: that's different, right, it's not the same thing as bonding
Speaker 1: over pens. Um It is just fascinating how you can
Speaker 1: bond with people over something like that. Yeah. And so
Speaker 1: in this case, it's not that he's necessarily gaining all
Speaker 1: of this value from that one specific object or the
Speaker 1: countless specific objects that he has, because he has a
Speaker 1: bunch of pens. But in this case, we're talking about
Speaker 1: relationship and when you can see your network and your
Speaker 1: friendships develop and blossom and see them spread because of
Speaker 1: an item, well that's a serious benefit that's worth considering. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting how what started off as kind of an
Speaker 1: obsession with an item has been turned into kind of
Speaker 1: like a hobby that was part of his life expanded
Speaker 1: as relationships. So, yeah, another really important filter or lens
Speaker 1: that we need to consider when we're making a purchase
Speaker 1: is the utility of it. We should really be considering
Speaker 1: what is the problem that we have in our lives
Speaker 1: that this purchase is going to solve. And this specific
Speaker 1: lens really mostly applies to buying stuff. But if you
Speaker 1: find yourself not really being able to come up with
Speaker 1: a real problem, then it's time to ask yourself, why
Speaker 1: do I want this thing? Why am I saying that
Speaker 1: I need this thing but I can't even really identify
Speaker 1: why I need it? And in those situations, allow yourself
Speaker 1: to take some time and pause before you click to buy.
Speaker 1: It makes me think of like infomercials where they're trying
Speaker 1: to convince you that you have this problem in your life,
Speaker 1: but in reality, it's like, that's not a real problem
Speaker 1: I have. Yeah, and you have twenty nine minutes to
Speaker 1: call in order to get the deal. Those those infomercials.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think I to exist in
Speaker 1: some way form or fashion, like somebody has to be
Speaker 1: selling the ad roller. Plus I completely remember in high
Speaker 1: school staying up late at night talking to my friends
Speaker 1: on the phone and we were totally watching infomercials, just
Speaker 1: making fun of um, yeah, a little nerd uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was in a weird stuff back then. But this
Speaker 1: totally makes me think Matt of a purchase that I
Speaker 1: made recently. There's this really really cool backpack that I
Speaker 1: was really excited about, but it wasn't anything that I
Speaker 1: actually needed. Was one of those roll top backpacks that
Speaker 1: like that the different bikers wear. No, it wasn't that. Then.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a cool backpack. Those are dope. No, it's
Speaker 1: kind of one of the ones that like it's like
Speaker 1: a butterfly opening and so it it's it's like a
Speaker 1: suitcase at the same time, Oh, I know what you're saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so it's like a clamshell, yeah exactly. And I
Speaker 1: was super into it because I realized, like, when I'm
Speaker 1: traveling that instead of rolling a suitcase behind me, how
Speaker 1: cool is it? How much better is it to have
Speaker 1: a backpack instead? It seems pretty rad, seems cool. So
Speaker 1: I bought it, and then I realized, you know what,
Speaker 1: I've got a great rolling suitcase. I don't need this thing.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's something that's actually important to me.
Speaker 1: And so but but I did kind of similar to
Speaker 1: the informercial thing. I bought it because it was on
Speaker 1: sale for a limited time in the lead up to Christmas,
Speaker 1: and so I bought it, and then I decided, you
Speaker 1: know what, this is not something I need. What I'm
Speaker 1: doing is I'm trying to like plug a happiness hole
Speaker 1: as opposed to actually fill a need in my life.
Speaker 1: And so I returned it, you know, after thinking about
Speaker 1: the purchase, albeit on the back end. But I just
Speaker 1: didn't need a cool travel backpack. Uh. And you know what,
Speaker 1: if even if I decided I did after more deliberation,
Speaker 1: I could probably find it used for a much better
Speaker 1: price from some other times somewhere else. And when you
Speaker 1: get used, you don't have to spend all that time
Speaker 1: ripping the tags off and removing the stickers. You know,
Speaker 1: all that takes time as well, exactly throwing away the
Speaker 1: packaging all that stuff. Yeah, well, and Joe something else
Speaker 1: you kind of alluded to their, right, you're talking about
Speaker 1: looking at a purchase in retrospect, like looking back at it.
Speaker 1: I want to kind of flip that on its head
Speaker 1: a little bit. And this is gonna be harder to do,
Speaker 1: but we want to encourage folks to look at a
Speaker 1: purchase in the future before you make that purchase, right
Speaker 1: Michael J. Fox style. Yeah, but for both stuff and experiences,
Speaker 1: try to look in the future and do your best
Speaker 1: to try to imagine how you're going to feel about
Speaker 1: that purchase and a couple of months, how you're gonna
Speaker 1: feel about it in a year, even five years down
Speaker 1: the road. If you feel even a twinge of awkward
Speaker 1: regret now, then there's a good chance that that will
Speaker 1: definitely be the case in the future. You know, Like,
Speaker 1: if you don't feel good about a purchase, you're you're
Speaker 1: not gonna feel good about that purchase in a month
Speaker 1: or two months or a year. And I think you
Speaker 1: can apply this one definitely to stuff and experiences. If
Speaker 1: it's a big time trip and a couple of your
Speaker 1: friends are going on it and you're like, I just
Speaker 1: don't feel like I have the money right now to
Speaker 1: actually make this happen, but you do it anyway, mostly
Speaker 1: out of peer pressure. Odds are you didn't take this
Speaker 1: step and actually look to what your future self a
Speaker 1: year or five years from now would would be thinking
Speaker 1: and how you feel about it, because if you did,
Speaker 1: you'd probably have a different viewpoint and you wouldn't be
Speaker 1: as likely to kind of jump on it just because
Speaker 1: everybody else is doing it. Yeah, it makes me think
Speaker 1: of concerts as well. Like if you're talking about planning
Speaker 1: and looking ahead towards the concert, well, that's great. If
Speaker 1: you're super stoked about a concert, great, it sounds like
Speaker 1: you're all for it, right, But if it's maybe a
Speaker 1: band that you've seen before and you're kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: this is what I do, but like, well, do you
Speaker 1: really have to do that? Like you've already seen them
Speaker 1: two or three times? Like, how is this going to
Speaker 1: be different this time? Uh? And in a few years,
Speaker 1: are you gonna feel good about the fact that you
Speaker 1: made it to that third Abor Brothers concert? Jol or
Speaker 1: you know, would you've just been happy with the first
Speaker 1: two now? I mean, well we're talking Aby Brothers dude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got to go three times because they are truly
Speaker 1: one of the best live bands out there. Totally, we're
Speaker 1: seeing multiple times, I will say that, but I completely
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying, and I think if we do
Speaker 1: kind of take a little bit more of a future
Speaker 1: US perspective before we make the purchase on either experiences
Speaker 1: or stuff, we're likely to make a much better decision. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: totally agree. And you know what, what else is so
Speaker 1: incredibly important for us to not do is to look
Speaker 1: to others. The jones Is right, Like, they've been around forever,
Speaker 1: those jerks, Yeah, they've always existed. But social media is
Speaker 1: the enemy of being content with what we have. Instagram
Speaker 1: and the other platforms out there has taken the Joneses
Speaker 1: to an entirely different level. So so many of the
Speaker 1: people that you know look rich, whether that be an
Speaker 1: experiences or the stuff that they own, or you know,
Speaker 1: take pictures of like they aren't actually rich, and the
Speaker 1: money that they could have saved and invested towards building
Speaker 1: freedom like instead that went out the door because of
Speaker 1: their desire to look a certain way. Man, it makes
Speaker 1: me think of Millionaire next Door, where there's a line
Speaker 1: in there one of the authors where they said that
Speaker 1: there are those who look rich and then there are
Speaker 1: those who are rich, and we want to make sure
Speaker 1: that we are the ones who are in actuality doing
Speaker 1: smart things with our money, not those who look like
Speaker 1: that they're living the life. Yeah. Yeah, completely, there's a
Speaker 1: big difference there, and we're gonna be happier if we
Speaker 1: have freedom on our side, right, not billions in the bank,
Speaker 1: but freedom on our side. And at the same time, dude,
Speaker 1: I feel like advertising has gotten so much sneakier. So
Speaker 1: with cookies and all the information that companies like Facebook
Speaker 1: and Amazon have on us, they can use some well
Speaker 1: written algorithms to serve up really relevant ads to us consistently.
Speaker 1: So be aware of the tools also that are used
Speaker 1: to part you from your money. Maybe it's helpful to
Speaker 1: get off Instagram altogether, or just use social media less,
Speaker 1: or maybe install an ad blocker that prevents you from
Speaker 1: seeing some of the stuff that all these advertisers want
Speaker 1: you to see. Matt, I just saw a story the
Speaker 1: other day about Google and how they changed what the
Speaker 1: ads look like. They used to have a different color
Speaker 1: background for the ads, They've completely removed it, and the
Speaker 1: ads almost blending seamlessly with the results, it's harder to
Speaker 1: decipher what's information and what's being paid to be served
Speaker 1: up to you. Dude, I completely noticed that earlier this week.
Speaker 1: It you know, it totally blends in what it does. Though,
Speaker 1: it causes us to be more savvy, like we have
Speaker 1: to be more savvy searchers, more savvy googlers when you know,
Speaker 1: we're hopping on their searching for whatever random stuff we're
Speaker 1: you know, we're looking up. Like in my case, I
Speaker 1: looked up what insects create mud tubes because I saw
Speaker 1: some mud tubes on the Girls Playhouse, you know, up
Speaker 1: in the rafters. It turns out it's they're called mud dappers.
Speaker 1: They're like these little wasps that that make these make
Speaker 1: these little mud tubes. Did you actually only click the
Speaker 1: ad to find that out or or did you scroll
Speaker 1: past and find your first good search result? Dude, I'm savvy.
Speaker 1: Not gonna catch me clicking on any of those ads.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, man. In the end, what we want
Speaker 1: folks to hear us say, though, is that stuff is
Speaker 1: not evil and experiences aren't evil either. However, there are
Speaker 1: ways that we can derive greater happiness in the ways
Speaker 1: that we pursue both of these things, if we are
Speaker 1: mindful in our approach, will turn to one or the other,
Speaker 1: or even both of these things to find happiness in
Speaker 1: our lives, but they won't be able to give us
Speaker 1: the happiness that we seek, and we're also going to
Speaker 1: end up with less money too. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: important to state that this isn't something that we don't
Speaker 1: struggle with, right. I think even folks who try to
Speaker 1: be mindful, they realize in their attempts at mindfulness that
Speaker 1: there are oftentimes that they don't do it well. And
Speaker 1: I am tempted to to buy a backpack that I
Speaker 1: don't actually need and then realize that I have to
Speaker 1: return it, And I'm also attempted to to make the
Speaker 1: quick purchase on Amazon. But the more that I can
Speaker 1: incorporate these filters into my life, the more that I
Speaker 1: can be mindful about my purchases of stuff or experiences,
Speaker 1: the more joy I get out of both. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think that's so key, right, is that we can look
Speaker 1: to purchases and experiences into the look for ways that
Speaker 1: those things can enrich and the other areas in our
Speaker 1: lives that matter more. We're not looking for fulfillment, enjoy
Speaker 1: necessarily in these items alone, but in what those things
Speaker 1: can do for the other areas of our lives, how
Speaker 1: they can impact and brighten and beautify those areas for sure.
Speaker 1: All Right, Matt, speaking of beautiful, let's talk about the
Speaker 1: beer that we had on the show today. I like
Speaker 1: that little transition. It was a beautiful, clear, golden beer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sure was. The beer we had on the show today
Speaker 1: was divided sky a rye I p A by Four
Speaker 1: Hands Brewing, and Matt, I don't think we've had a
Speaker 1: Rye I PA on the show yet, So what was
Speaker 1: your take on this one? Yeah, it's been a minute.
Speaker 1: So for me, anytime I have a rye I PA,
Speaker 1: it always has this sort of like spicy character to it,
Speaker 1: like pepper, Like that's what I always kind of come
Speaker 1: back to you because it feels a little bit dry,
Speaker 1: but it's not spicy hot, but it just kind of
Speaker 1: has like this kind of pepperiness to it. So it
Speaker 1: definitely had that going on. But then it also had
Speaker 1: this nice balance between like the floral hops as well
Speaker 1: as like a multibody classic I p A but with
Speaker 1: just like a little bit of black pepper cracked into it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of cracked black pepper by the way,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I got some of those nice spicy ry
Speaker 1: notes going on, and then also at the same time,
Speaker 1: I thought some kind of piny hop notes with that
Speaker 1: malt background, and so yeah, it was a really interesting
Speaker 1: flavor profile. I really dug it. And it's not every
Speaker 1: day that you have a rye I p A. They did,
Speaker 1: just not many people make them, so it was fun
Speaker 1: to get to try. This one. Is a big thanks
Speaker 1: for our listener, Justin for sending this one our way. Yeah, Justin,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for that, beer Man. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode. Our
Speaker 1: listeners can head over to our website at how some
Speaker 1: money dot com, where you can find our show notes
Speaker 1: as well as some of the other articles and resources
Speaker 1: that we've been working on. Yeah, and if you're a
Speaker 1: longtime listener and you are still nervous to talk about
Speaker 1: money with your friends, well, you know what, Why not
Speaker 1: tell a friend about the show you've been listening to
Speaker 1: and the things you've been learning about money. Telling your
Speaker 1: friend about a podcast you're into is the quickest way
Speaker 1: to spread the word and it can also kind of
Speaker 1: open up those money conversations with friends that can be
Speaker 1: so impactful. So yeah, maybe sharing this episode or another
Speaker 1: one with a friend could be great for that relationship,
Speaker 1: and it also really helps our show at the same time.
Speaker 1: So we appreciate all of our listeners so much. Thank
Speaker 1: you for the ways you support our show. All Right, Matt,
Speaker 1: that's going to be it for this episode until next time,
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,