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Speaker 1: Hello, My name is Jason Getsepsion, and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: x R endition of the podcast where we dive deep

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Speaker 1: the dear favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. Coming

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Speaker 1: to you from My Heart podcast, but we're bringing you

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Speaker 1: to action packed episodes a week Tuesdays and Thursdays. In

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Speaker 1: today's episode, Rosie and I sit down with the prolific,

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Speaker 1: iconic spooky master himself, R. Al Stein, the mind behind

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Speaker 1: Goosebumps among many other spooky tones. So without further ado,

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Speaker 1: here's our chat with the great R.

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Speaker 2: Al Stein.

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Speaker 3: Today we are joined by one of the most prolific

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Speaker 3: horror writers in the world. He has more than four

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Speaker 3: hundred million English language books in print. He is terrified

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Speaker 3: and inspired many children with the Goosebump series and many

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Speaker 3: Fair Street books. Today, we are so honored to have R.

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Speaker 3: L Stein joining us on x ray Vision.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Rosie, nice to be here.

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Speaker 1: Shark Knight tell us about Shark Knight.

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Speaker 4: Shark Knight, It's about sharks was originally called Shark Week.

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Speaker 4: Oh at the Discovery channel k Shark Week. No one's

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Speaker 4: allowed to use it, wow, So I had to change

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Speaker 4: the name to Shark Knight. Basically, it's a It's a

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Speaker 4: middle grade scary, funny book like Goosebumps, only longer and

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Speaker 4: with illustrations about a boy whose mother is making a

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Speaker 4: documentary for the Danger Channel and she's doing a show

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Speaker 4: called Shark Knight and her son Leo, ends up on

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Speaker 4: the bottom of an enormous tank and they're about to

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Speaker 4: lower a hammerhead shark into the tank, and he's supposed

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Speaker 4: to interact with the shark for this Danger Channel show.

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Speaker 4: But things. I don't want to spoil it here.

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Speaker 1: But no, no, no, you don't.

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Speaker 4: Go wrong, the wrong shark, the wrong everything. And then

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Speaker 4: it gets very, very crazy once he's out of the

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Speaker 4: tank and fleeing for his life.

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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed Shark Knight. I was lucky enough to

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Speaker 3: read it, and I wanted to ask you. You know,

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Speaker 3: you've built a career on telling stories for kids. You

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Speaker 3: mentioned this is the middle grade story, So why do

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Speaker 3: you think it's important to have horror stories that kids

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Speaker 3: can read.

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Speaker 4: I just like to scare kids. You know, it's a

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Speaker 4: living right good job. It's a good job. Hey, we

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Speaker 4: all like scary stories, yeah, age, we all like it.

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Speaker 4: You know it helps us. You want to be serious

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Speaker 4: helps us face our fears realize we can overcome things.

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Speaker 4: Kids like scary stories, I think largely because they know

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Speaker 4: they're safe while they're reading them. They're having these creepy adventures.

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Speaker 4: They're fighting ghosts and monsters, but they're in their room

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Speaker 4: reading at the same time. And I think that's one

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Speaker 4: reason why my books have been so popular.

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Speaker 1: Where do these ideas come from? When do you you know,

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Speaker 1: you're sitting around and then get this idea about a

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Speaker 1: scary tower in London or a big shark and a tank.

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Speaker 1: Where do these ideas come from? And then how do

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Speaker 1: you know? Oh, that's that one.

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Speaker 4: That book actually came from the Tower of London. I

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Speaker 4: was in the tower and the idea for doing that

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Speaker 4: Goosebumps book A Night in Terror Tower came to me there.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. You don't know your idea possible question

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Speaker 4: to answer. Authors all have their pat answers about how

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Speaker 4: they get ideas, but you can't really you don't know.

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Speaker 4: One day I was, yeah, no, it's true. Or you

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Speaker 4: sit down and you think, and you think and you

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Speaker 4: think until you have an idea. You don't know a

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Speaker 4: lot of authors say, well, you start with the question,

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Speaker 4: what if what if this happened? But that's garbage. You

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Speaker 4: It's true. You don't start with a question what if.

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Speaker 4: If you're asking what if, you already have to know

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Speaker 4: what the answer is. One day, I was walking my

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Speaker 4: dog in Riverside Park in New York and these words

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Speaker 4: popped into my head, say cheese and die. Where'd that

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Speaker 4: come from? Where? What? All of a sudden I got

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Speaker 4: these words in my head? And then you start thinking.

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Speaker 4: Most of my books start with the title. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm backwards for most authors, but what if there's an

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Speaker 4: evil camera? What if the camera takes pictures of bad

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Speaker 4: things that happen in the future. What if kids just

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Speaker 4: you know? And that leads me. Having that title led

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Speaker 4: me to the story of say Jee's and Die. Most

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Speaker 4: authors come up with an idea for a story, and

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Speaker 4: then they write, They write, and later on they think

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Speaker 4: of a title. But I have to start with the title.

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Speaker 4: I always have to. Sometimes I'll have an idea for

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Speaker 4: a story and I can't think of a good title,

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Speaker 4: so I throw out the idea.

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Speaker 3: It's true, Well, that makes sense because all the Goosebump

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Speaker 3: stories do have very catchy titles.

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Speaker 4: You're good, Yeah, they're a good title. That's my main talent.

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Speaker 3: So what was your origin story as a horror writer?

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Speaker 3: When did that become something that you wanted to do

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Speaker 3: because you started doing humor books, And when did you

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Speaker 3: kind of get into the mindset that you're going to

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Speaker 3: start scaring choice.

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Speaker 4: It's embarrassing. It's an embarrassing story. Now, it wasn't my idea.

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Speaker 4: That's my idea to write scary books. Almost everything that's

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Speaker 4: happened to me has been an accident in there, stumbled

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Speaker 4: into it. All I cared about was being funny humor

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Speaker 4: magazine for kids for ten years called Bananas. I wrote

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Speaker 4: dozens of joke books, and I just, you know, that

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Speaker 4: was my life's dream, having my own humor magazine because

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Speaker 4: I was a huge, mad fan. And you know, when

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Speaker 4: I was a kid, and after Bananas folded, I thought

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Speaker 4: I coast the rest of my life. I figured I'd

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Speaker 4: done it. I had no idea what was in store.

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Speaker 4: I'd always liked horror. When my brother and I were

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Speaker 4: kids back in Ohio, we would go to this little

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Speaker 4: movie theater every Saturday morning. They had a Tom and

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Speaker 4: Jerry cartoon festival and a horror movie, so we saw

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Speaker 4: all the great horror movies back then, The Brain that

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Speaker 4: Wouldn't Die and Walks among Us, A Creature from the

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Speaker 4: Black Lagoon and Taratal, all those films, and I'd always

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Speaker 4: enjoyed horror. I never planned to write it. And one

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Speaker 4: day I was having lunch with my friend Jeane Fiwell,

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Speaker 4: who was the pub editorial director at Scholastic, and she

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Speaker 4: arrived at lunch angry and she said she'd had a conversation.

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Speaker 4: She'd had a fight with someone who wrote te in horror,

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Speaker 4: who show remained nameless. She said, I'm never working with

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Speaker 4: him again. You could write a good teen horror novel,

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Speaker 4: go home and write a book called blind Date, right.

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Speaker 4: She even gave me the title, and I didn't know

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Speaker 4: what she was talking about. Had no what's a teen

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Speaker 4: horror novel? I didn't know, but I was at that

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Speaker 4: point in my career where you know, you say yes

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Speaker 4: to everything, let me say no no. I ran into

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Speaker 4: the bookstore and I bought books by Christopher Pike, and

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Speaker 4: by Lois Duncan and Diane Howe and Richie Tankersley Cusick.

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Speaker 4: They were all writing teen horror novels, and I read

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Speaker 4: their books to find out what it was all about.

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Speaker 4: And then I tried to figure out what I could

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Speaker 4: do a little different so I wouldn't be just like them.

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Speaker 4: And I decided to be a little younger and cleaner

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Speaker 4: and not have you know, they had like cocaine and

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Speaker 4: things in their book, and I decided, you know, I'm

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Speaker 4: from Ohio, right, I don't, And I wrote Blind Day.

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Speaker 4: It took me three months. I can't imagine spending three

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Speaker 4: months on a book. You handed it in and it

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Speaker 4: was a number one best seller. That wait, what I

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Speaker 4: never read on the bestseller list. And then a year later,

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Speaker 4: Gene Firewall asked me to do another one, and I

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Speaker 4: wrote a book called Twisted and it was a number

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Speaker 4: one bestseller and I thought, forget the funny stuff, forget that.

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Speaker 4: And I've been scary ever since. But it's kind of

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Speaker 4: embarrassing since it wasn't my idea.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, sometimes you need you need a little

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Speaker 1: direction to understand what it is that you're really really

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Speaker 1: good at.

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Speaker 4: And I didn't know, you know, I went into schools

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Speaker 4: and I'd say to kids, why do you like these books?

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Speaker 4: And they all said, we like to be scared, we

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Speaker 4: like to be scared. I didn't, you know, I just

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Speaker 4: didn't know, and it was a great It was a

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Speaker 4: great thing to find out, believe me.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh, you're so amazingly prolific. And here you are

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Speaker 1: with a new book, Shark Knight, just released earlier this month.

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Speaker 1: What is your process like? How do you how do

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Speaker 1: you manage to churn out so much material?

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Speaker 4: I'm just a machine. No, I just love it. I

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Speaker 4: still love it. I've written book. I still it's the

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Speaker 4: best part of my day every you know, I'm like

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Speaker 4: a factor. I write every day from ten to one.

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Speaker 4: Those are good hours, right, you'd kill hours ten to one? Sure,

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Speaker 4: and I write, you know, I make sure. I used

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Speaker 4: to write two thousand words a day, and it's like

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Speaker 4: ten pages. I can't quite do that. I've slowed down.

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Speaker 4: But I can do seven maybe, and just do it

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Speaker 4: every day and not quit until I've done my pages

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Speaker 4: for the day. But as I say, it's the best

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Speaker 4: part of my day. The rest of my life's pretty horrible.

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Speaker 4: You can laugh, I'm being serious. You can laugh. But

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Speaker 4: that's how I do it. And I wouldn't know what

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Speaker 4: else to do all day. If I didn't write in

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Speaker 4: the morning, what would I do? I wouldn't know. I've

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Speaker 4: done it for so long. Yeah, that's how That's how

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Speaker 4: I do it, and I just you know, I do

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Speaker 4: it because I love it, And now that I'm really old,

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Speaker 4: I do it to prove to myself that I can

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Speaker 4: still do it. I just signed on for six more

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Speaker 4: Goosebumps books. There I'm going to be one hundred and twelve.

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Speaker 4: I'll still be writing for ten year olds. The dam Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know where I'll be sending them from, but

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Speaker 4: six more. And now I'm doing these books for Blackstone,

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Speaker 4: my new publisher. Shark Knight is the second book I've

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Speaker 4: done for them. I did one last year called Slime

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Speaker 4: Doesn't Pay.

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Speaker 3: Still gonna have those titles, Yes, very good title. So

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Speaker 3: something that's been I mean, is another unique part of

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Speaker 3: your success with Goosebumps. In your book, You've gotten to

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Speaker 3: see these things come to life in all these different formats.

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Speaker 3: There's been movies and video games, and you yourself have

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Speaker 3: gotten to write comic books. And what was that like,

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Speaker 3: that transition from doing pros to comic books. Was that

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Speaker 3: something you'd always wanted to do? Were you a fan

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Speaker 3: of comic books? Or was it just another step in

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Speaker 3: the well got to keep writing?

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Speaker 4: No, I love it. When I was a kid, I

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Speaker 4: was a comic book fanatic. People always ask me what

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Speaker 4: my favorite children's books. When I was a kid, I

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Speaker 4: didn't read books. I like comic books. And my friends

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Speaker 4: and I would carry around big stacks of comics and

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Speaker 4: we would read them under a tree in my front

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Speaker 4: yard and trade. We're always training comics and carrying our

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Speaker 4: comics around. And when I was a kid, there were

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Speaker 4: these easy horror comics that I looked from the Crypt

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Speaker 4: and the Vault of Horror. I just I love those

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Speaker 4: and I've always I didn't start reading books till I

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Speaker 4: was like nine or ten. And I tell this story

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Speaker 4: about my mom dropped me off at a little library

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Speaker 4: on main Street in my town in Columbus, and the

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Speaker 4: librarian was waiting for me and she said, Bobby, I

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Speaker 4: know you like comics. I have something else here I

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Speaker 4: think you will like. And she took me to a

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Speaker 4: shelf of Ray Bradbury's stories, and that changed my life.

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Speaker 4: Those stories were so imaginative and so beautifully written, and

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Speaker 4: all had great twist endings and great Bradbury really and

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Speaker 4: that librarian really turned me into a reader. That's when

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Speaker 4: I first started, you know, reading stuff, but now to

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Speaker 4: be able. These people from Boom Studios came to me

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Speaker 4: and we were talking, and for me, it's you know,

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Speaker 4: I've always loved comics and be able to write them.

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Speaker 4: I've been doing horror comics for adults. Oh you see

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Speaker 4: horror comic type stuff called stuff of Nightmares, and it's

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Speaker 4: been it's just fun. And I'm doing a new series

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Speaker 4: for them called The Graveyard Club, which is ya horror

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Speaker 4: and that's that's coming out in September, the first one.

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Speaker 4: So it's just fun. And comics are easier to write

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Speaker 4: than books because you don't have to describe anything. I'm

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Speaker 4: terrible a description. I have no writer's eye. I don't

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Speaker 4: know flowers, I don't think these, I don't know anything.

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Speaker 4: But when you're writing a comic book, you say he

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Speaker 4: walked through the jungle. The artist has to do the jungle.

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Speaker 4: You don't have to describe the plants or what's going

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Speaker 4: on in the jungle. The artist does it. And so

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Speaker 4: it's kind of like writing a TV script or a

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Speaker 4: script because mainly you write the dialogue and then the

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Speaker 4: artist has to fill it all in. So it's fun.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back with more spooky conversations with ral Stein.

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Speaker 1: A quick word from our sponsors. Do you remember what

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Speaker 1: the first thing either you read or you saw that

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Speaker 1: really scared you was.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, see, you're not gonna believe You're too young to

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Speaker 4: believe this. I grew up with radio. See, you can't

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Speaker 4: tell that to people now. You can't tell people, you know.

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Speaker 4: I didn't have television until I was nine, and I

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Speaker 4: would listen to all the dramas and horror stories and

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Speaker 4: cowboy stories on the radio. I'm still to this day.

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Speaker 4: I love radio. And I had this little radio by

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Speaker 4: my bed and I would listen at night. I'd have

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Speaker 4: it on and then this voice would come on, this

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Speaker 4: deep voice that I'd be lying there, I'm a little kid,

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Speaker 4: and this voice would say, and now tale calculated to

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Speaker 4: keep you in suspense, this horrible, frightening voice. And I

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Speaker 4: turned the radio off and said, oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: turn off and turn it off. That's the first time

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Speaker 4: I was scared by something, that voice on the radio.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned your your two thousand words a day from

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Speaker 1: ten to one again, wonderful better than bankers hours. Yes,

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Speaker 1: How do you, as someone who is so prolific, how

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Speaker 1: do you manage to not to just keep going. How

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Speaker 1: do you manage to not stop and let me read

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Speaker 1: that back?

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Speaker 4: And oh no?

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Speaker 1: And then and then how do you manage to keep

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Speaker 1: pushing the plot forward?

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Speaker 4: And I don't read it back? Yeah, you don't go back.

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Speaker 4: You keep going. I don't know. I you know. I.

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Speaker 4: It's just you have to love it. You have to

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Speaker 4: love it and keep going. And I love being prolific.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm very proud of that. A lot of

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Speaker 4: people take that as a criticism, but I love turning out.

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Speaker 4: I worked in magazine when I was a scholastic. I

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Speaker 4: worked in weekly magazine. I got used to that pace.

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Speaker 4: And for me, the pace of getting a book out

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Speaker 4: is very slow. You know, a little Goosebumps book, right,

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Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty page book takes some nine months

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Speaker 4: to get it out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's ridiculous, No, it is.

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Speaker 4: We did Shark Knight. This is why Shark Knight was

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Speaker 4: a miracle, because they came to me at Anthony at

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Speaker 4: Blackstone and he said, we'd like to do a second

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Speaker 4: book with you, and we'll bring it out in twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty five. I said, Anthony, I'm not sure I want

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Speaker 4: to live that long. I have to live. Had long

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Speaker 4: to see the book. Can't we bring it out in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty four? And I, I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 4: if you'll be impressed by this or not, but I

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Speaker 4: handed the book in on April first, and the book

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Speaker 4: came out on July second, which powerful.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Yes, unbelievably fast. And look at it. It's fully illustrated.

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Speaker 4: It's great. The covers. Fact, it's a great package, filled

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Speaker 4: with illustrations. Used good paper, rare you don't get you know,

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Speaker 4: you look, post Bumps is on toilet paper. I didn't

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Speaker 4: say that, did I. No one's listening, right anyway, that's

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Speaker 4: a miracle these days, well to July, and it shows

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Speaker 4: that can be done. Books can be published. You don't

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Speaker 4: need nine months to do a little well.

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Speaker 3: You can do more books. Speed it up and you

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Speaker 3: could be even more prolific.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, right right.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the cover for Shark Knight. I think one

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Speaker 1: of the things, as an avid reader of Goosebumps, one

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Speaker 1: of the very first things that attracted me to your

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Speaker 1: books were the covers. Yeah, these really spooky covers, the

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Speaker 1: wonderful lettering and the bumps and the bumps and the bumps.

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Speaker 1: Of course it was and so what was that process

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Speaker 1: like of developing that art style. How much of us, say,

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Speaker 1: did you have and what would appear on the covers

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Speaker 1: of your books?

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Speaker 4: They didn't. Tim Jacobis painted the first hundred Goosebumps covers. Wow,

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Speaker 4: he's amazing, he's the best. He's just and you know

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Speaker 4: the covers were much scarier than the books.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 4: Some kids told me they had to turn the book

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Speaker 4: upside down at night so the cover show. You know,

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Speaker 4: they wouldn't see the cover. But Tim and I actually didn't.

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Speaker 4: They try to keep the author and the artist apart.

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Speaker 4: And I didn't meet Tim for three years. We've been

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Speaker 4: working Wow, three years. I finally met him. We're good

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Speaker 4: pals now and we actually do bookstore talks together. But

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Speaker 4: the way it worked would be I would be writing

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Speaker 4: a book and I would send him a little paragraph, say,

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Speaker 4: this book is about it takes place in the Everglades

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Speaker 4: in Florida, a kid suspects that one of the neighbors

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Speaker 4: is a werewolf, and then he would paint the cover

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Speaker 4: from that. We working side. That's all. You would have,

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Speaker 4: just a little thing. And he got it right every time,

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Speaker 4: every except once, always got it right, and it was

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Speaker 4: you know amazing, and Jim is the only Goosebumps artist

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Speaker 4: we ever had cover art who got that it wasn't

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Speaker 4: straight horror, that it was right for me, and his

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Speaker 4: had the humor as well as the horror. We've had

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Speaker 4: other good artists, and we have someone new now. You know,

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Speaker 4: Goosebumps is now called Goosebump's House of Shivers. Only once

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Speaker 4: Tim didn't get it right, and that was in the

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Speaker 4: book Say Cheese and I. It was about an evil

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Speaker 4: camera taking these pictures, and his cover painting came in

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Speaker 4: and it was a scene of skeletons barbecuing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's the one.

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Speaker 4: I reminder it so nothing to do with the book.

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Speaker 3: I thought the idea was like somebody had taken the picture. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and then they saw that. I think once you read

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Speaker 3: the book, it made said no.

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Speaker 4: Well I had no, it didn't and they couldn't ask

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Speaker 4: him to change the painting right. So they called me

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Speaker 4: up and said, Bob, can you add a scene of

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Speaker 4: skeletons barbecuing in the book? Right? So I added a

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Speaker 4: dream sequence that the boy goes to sleep and he

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Speaker 4: dreams about skeleton's barbecuing. And that's how that's how we

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Speaker 4: made all the other covers are fine.

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Speaker 1: What does R. L. Stein read? Now?

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Speaker 4: What are the things that I read? Most mysteries and

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Speaker 4: thrillers mostly I'm in International Thriller Writers. Actually, I was

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Speaker 4: on the board of the Thriller Writers for eleven years,

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Speaker 4: and I got to hang out with the Lee Child

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Speaker 4: and Michael Connolly and they're all friends of mine. Harlan Coben,

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Speaker 4: those are the people I read, and I know them

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Speaker 4: all now, which is really wonderful. I was talking. I

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Speaker 4: was down on Saint Croix on the beach, and this

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Speaker 4: woman said, oh, what did you bring to read? And

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Speaker 4: I said, well, I brought this Nero Wolf mystery, and

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Speaker 4: I brought this old British mystery and I brought She said, oh,

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Speaker 4: beach reading. I realized that's what I read all year.

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Speaker 4: I read.

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Speaker 1: A Good Way to Live.

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Speaker 4: The best thing I read all summer is a book

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Speaker 4: called Shanghai by an author named Joseph Cannon k A

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Speaker 4: N O. N. He's just an amazing uh spy author,

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Speaker 4: spy novelist, thriller writer. Now that the car has gone,

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Speaker 4: Joseph is the best we have. I it's it's just you.

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Speaker 4: It's hypnotic when you read it. It's an amazing book.

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Speaker 1: I just I just purchased it.

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Speaker 3: Get your commission, you get.

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Speaker 1: Well Back in a moment. More spooky talk with R. L.

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Speaker 2: Stein.

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Speaker 3: So you read thrillers, you read, you know, mysteries. Do

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Speaker 3: you read any horror or is that more saved for

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Speaker 3: what you write?

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Speaker 4: We're just talking between us, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 4: not really into horror. I know. It's really true though,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't really read I'm a big Stephen King. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: maybe one out of every three Stephen King books. But

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Speaker 4: I don't read other horror. It's not what I'm you know.

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Speaker 4: I like detective novels, and you know, I like old mysteries,

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Speaker 4: old British mysteries and that kind of thing. I don't

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Speaker 4: really read much horror.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just terrorize children with your own imagination.

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Speaker 4: But right now, it's no, It's true. Most people don't

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Speaker 4: like horror.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 4: Listen, this is strange. I mean, if you think about

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Speaker 4: mystery writers on the bestseller list, there are dozens of them.

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Speaker 4: People tell a lot of you know, right, thrillers, the

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Speaker 4: Michael Connolly's and Karen Slaughter, But how many best selling

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Speaker 4: horror writers can you name? They're only four. No, it's

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Speaker 4: strange though, dozens of mystery writers that do well, but

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Speaker 4: they're only four or five horror writers that do well,

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Speaker 4: which is it's interesting to me. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: anyone is interested. But you know, once you get past

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Speaker 4: Stephen King and Dean Koonts and King's son and maybe

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Speaker 4: a couple other people, that's it. There's people don't read them.

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Speaker 1: You know what. What's the parallel I see between you

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Speaker 1: and Stephen King, who you've been compared to in terms

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Speaker 1: of your horror work. And the thing that I think

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Speaker 1: drew me that I like about your both of your

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Speaker 1: works is you take the simplest idea and then you

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Speaker 1: just dedicate all of this wonderful talent and energy to

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Speaker 1: bringing this very simple idea to life. When Stephen King,

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Speaker 1: it will just be like Haunted Hotel, you know, with you,

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Speaker 1: it'll be Haunted amusement park. These are very very simple ideas,

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Speaker 1: and yet you know, all of the creativity and talent

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Speaker 1: and just bringing that, you know, just you know, building

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Speaker 1: up that wonderfully simple idea is what makes it so

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Speaker 1: accessible and scary. And I think that's the thing I

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Speaker 1: appreciated both of you.

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Speaker 4: Funny you mentioned an amusement park that I only met

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Speaker 4: Stephen King once and one he never comes down from Maine.

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Speaker 4: I met him at the Eger Awards a few years

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Speaker 4: ago and we had a really nice talk, and then

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Speaker 4: he accused me of taking every amusement park plot and

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Speaker 4: for anyone else. And you know, I said, I said,

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Speaker 4: this was I said, Steve, you know a magazine once

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Speaker 4: called me a literary training bra for you, which is true,

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Speaker 4: and he said, yes.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean something as well that I think has always

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Speaker 3: stuck with me about your work, is you managed to

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Speaker 3: couch these kind of you know, it's a kid's horror book,

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Speaker 3: but then at the end you will have a terrifying,

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Speaker 3: existentially horrifying kind of twist. I think a lot about

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Speaker 3: the kids who go to the films udio to try

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00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 3: out the new theme park, and then at the end

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00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: you learn that they are actually robots who were made

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00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: to test the theme park that existentially terrified me as

435
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: a child. Oh yes, so do you kind of when

436
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: you're telling the stories, do you always have that Ray

437
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: Bradbury's style, Twilight Zone style kind of shocking twist that

438
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: you want to leave the audience with. Is that a

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00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: major part of what you try to do.

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00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 4: All I care about or twists, that's all I care about.

441
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 4: There has to be one, And I think that's why

442
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 4: kids like it so much so much. Olden's literature is

443
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: so linear, goes in a straight line. You know where

444
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 4: it's going to go. Yeah, I have to have one

445
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: place or maybe two or three in every Goosebumps book

446
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 4: where there's some twist, something shocking for the reader and

447
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 4: they say, oh no, I had no idea that that's

448
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 4: what was happening. Oh no, that changes everything really important

449
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 4: to me. That's like, you know, it's in the Goosebumps

450
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 4: movie where Jack Black played me the first and Jack

451
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 4: and I are like twins, right of course. Yes, And

452
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 4: at the end of the film he's teaching a class

453
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: as me and he says a line that I wish

454
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 4: I had written because it's perfect, and I wish I

455
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 4: had written it. Jack says, every story has a beginning,

456
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 4: a middle, and a twist. Yeah, right, it's just perfect.

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00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: Before we let you go, what is the secret from

458
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: the master? What's the what's the secret to a good twist?

459
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: How do you set it up? How do you execute it?

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00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 4: Oh no, I knew the dog. The dog would answer

461
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 4: that question. Yeah, hold on a minute.

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00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: That's the twist. That's the twist, the twisters.

463
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 4: Hey, he's too tall. Look, he's a dog that tall.

464
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 4: You were good most of the time. Okay, that's all right,

465
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 4: that's okay, that's all right.

466
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 3: He said your thirty minutes is up. It's time for

467
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 3: a walk.

468
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 4: He's usually pretty good, but he's just too tall. What

469
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 4: were we talking about?

470
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 3: Twists?

471
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 4: Oh?

472
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Twt What makes a good twist?

473
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: This has to be planned very early in the book,

474
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: very early. What what the twists are going to be?

475
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: So that I can keep the kids from real guessing. So,

476
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 4: I mean, those get they get planned very early. And

477
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 4: you know, a good twist is when somebody turns out

478
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 4: not to be who they said they were, that kind

479
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: of thing, or you know, as you say, when the

480
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 4: protagonist turns out to be a robot.

481
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: Curely terrifying.

482
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: I still think about it.

483
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: Well, r L.

484
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. It's been a delight.

485
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: Shark Knight is out now wherever you get books. Thank

486
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.

487
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 4: Right, this was really I really had fun. It's great

488
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 4: to talk. Thank you, Thank you so much.

489
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 3: So did we thank you so much.

490
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: On tomorrow's episode of Extra Division, I'll be joined by

491
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: Danny Fernandez to break down the first four episodes of

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00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: the Incredible Batman Cape Crusader on Amazon Prime Video. And

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00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: next week we're grabbing onto your face and dropping four

494
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: absolutely parasitic episodes covering the Aliad universe directly into your

495
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: ear holes. Can't escape, you must give birth to these.

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00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: That's it for the episode. X ray Vision is hosted

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00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: by Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight and is a production

498
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and

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00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar. Our

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00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song

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00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: is by Brian Basquez.

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00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman

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00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: and Heidi our disco moderata