WEBVTT - Openly Gleek (feat. Ty Mitchell) 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.440 I'm going to create an environment that is so toxic, 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.520 and they really did. They really did create an environment 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:18.560 that was so toxic and yet fruitful. I'm starting a 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.800 rumor that Kate Bush is a gleek. You know, Um, 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.520 I don't know, I don't know if that's that's if 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:27.159 that's true, but we love to say shitty things for 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.640 attention here on like a virgin. That's true, and this 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.320 episode will be no different because we're talking about Glee. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:35.800 We're just we were warming up right before we're doing 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.320 our our scales. O. Wait, wait, we need to actually 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.960 do a kind of red leather, yellow leather, red leather. 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.000 What was what sells seashells by the seashore? What did 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:51.839 you do to that? Really ugly? Should we do a 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:56.600 quick ground that thought? You? Neque New York, New York? 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:01.720 You know, that's really moment. Yeah, this is really cursed, 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.200 which is very appropriate because today we're talking about Glee, 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.880 the seminole Ryan Murphy TV show, and we have none 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:13.040 other than the first openly gay porn star and writer 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.440 Tie Mitchell here today to talk with us all about 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:21.280 Glee It's impact on TV culture, queer representation. Because this 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.440 is like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.360 pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Dam and I'm fran Toronto. 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.119 This Pride month, we were blessed by what I will 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.800 say is one of the best gay albums of all 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.039 time and definitely an album of the year, from um 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:44.720 Muna's self titled second album, Muna Um. I'm in love 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:46.760 with it. I've been listening to it NonStop. Actually on 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.480 the flight to New York from l A. I just 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.440 had it playing on a loop while I was sleeping 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.760 for the entire flight. So now I feel like it 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.560 has settled into my very bones. And I'm gonna say 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.080 my favorite track right now currently is Nurse High Too. 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.639 It's so good, it's like really synthy. Um. I really 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.160 like how their production has evolved, especially like I think 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:14.400 the songwriting and like the musicians ship has always been there. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.919 But I think maybe because you know, mun As signed 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.799 to Phoebe Bridges label Satisfactory Records, and I think maybe 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.639 like getting them like like helping them out with production 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:27.400 was maybe part of that, or just maybe they have 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.160 access to like a better studio now. I don't know, 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:35.000 but just realized that saddest factory is a double entendo 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:41.200 for satisfactory. I didn't know that good if I did not, anyway, 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.000 that's very Phoebe. But yeah, it's very Phoebe. Um again 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.799 Runners high Runners hide for me. I mean it feels 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.920 very like fruit fru or like image and heat a 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.280 little bit, which is the biggest compliment, biggest we can give. 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.320 And then like my other fave, Solid with like those 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.800 harmonized vocals that they are so known for, reminds me 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:05.079 of very like Um, very like Wilson Phillips, like Um 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.520 eighties nineties era, like girl rock, you know girl in 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.320 quotes rock. Um right, it would definitely play at like 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.880 a wedding scene in a queer movie. Yeah, they them 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.880 rock if you will Um and I yeah, I mean, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.959 I I love I'm so excited about it. I remember Um, 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.840 after shooting the Silk Fun music video with them, they 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:29.480 had like a bonfire at Naomi and Joe's house. Um, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.080 and I remember we were talking about the album and 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:34.840 what they were excited about. This is eons ago and 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.840 I had been listening to Silk Fun all day, so 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:38.960 I was like addicted to it because it's such an 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.280 earworm and I mean that and it's a term of endearment, 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.160 and um, they were They were like, oh, we want 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:45.760 to show you this other song just to see what 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.600 you think. And they played what I Want and I 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.360 remember being like, oh, this is like such a bop 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.160 and they were like, well, Silk Chifn is for the 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.000 girls and what I Want is for the boys. We 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:01.680 love the musical binary love binaries. Yes, Um, that's very 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.960 exciting speaking of something that's for the girls. It was 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:09.280 just announced that Emma Roberts is joining The Spider Man 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:14.560 SeeU in Madam Webb alongside Dakota Johnson and Sydney Sweeney. 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.920 So Sony really said, gays, you will be watching this 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.839 superhero movie whether you like it or not, right, And 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.679 I mean I'm here for Sydney Sweeney obviously. Um, Emma 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.360 Roberts has never been my girl. Like, I really can't 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.360 tell the difference between her and all the other blonde 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.160 cast members of American Horror Story, right, who are all 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.400 who are all nepotism babies. Emma Roberts is Julia Roberts's niece, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.440 Reilly Lord is Carrie Fisher's daughter. Um, Tessa Familia is 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.359 vera familiar sister, like they are all just related to 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.000 someone famous. They all look exactly the same. But I'm 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.400 totally behind this casting. I love that, like because I 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:55.000 think Spider Man is like a very just like boy 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.960 centric superhero universe. Um, except you know, we got Spy 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.479 or Gwen into the spider verse. But I really loved 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.320 the idea of like force feminizing spider Man, state sanctions 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.400 and spider Man it's like your favorite superhero absolutely without 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.560 a die. I mean, is that just because he's a twink? 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.360 I mean, I I it's probably because he shoots come 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.800 out of his hands, but I feel like for me, Yeah, 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.120 sorry for the visual, but I think you know I 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.599 love an underdog story. I have no shame in loving 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.240 Spider Man, even though it has been done to death. Well, um, 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.039 something that did not make me shoot come out of 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.080 my hands, but did make me feel really ashamed of 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.400 my love. That was um to two weeks ago. I 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.799 did something really dark, which was I watched the entire 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.200 final season of Love Victor in twenty four hours the 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.400 day it was released. Wait, I don't know that you 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:50.000 watched at all. With the whole over ours in twenty 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:55.119 four hours, that's really half an hour episodes. It's very easy. Yeah, 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.880 I did it in two sittings. I did once watch 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.040 a season of Love Victor in one sitting as well. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.520 Really a story that I told about our live show 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.720 this this past this yesterday. It was, okay, I'll give 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:13.560 I'll give the abre I'm going to I'm going to 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.440 create editions, but I would love to hear you. Okay, 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.720 France took too much ammodium and was no, no, no, no, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.400 no no, no, give me storytelling value. I'm going to 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.279 break it down. Fran, do it, Phoebe Maker do it. 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.360 Fran was okay, I'm gonna do it. Okay. So Fran 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.760 was on Fire Island wanted to bottom and so took 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.000 an ammonium but accidentally took two um and so had 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.919 a hard brick of ship in there and there colon 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.520 and there were no doctors on Fire Island famously has 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.960 no doctors. So had to spend eight hours sitting in 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.680 front of a TV watching Love Victor reclined, unable to 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.239 recline because reclining or laying down in any capacity hurt. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.440 Because however, the you know, amorphous rock like turd was 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:03.200 adjusted into like my upper or lower intestine had like 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.960 it felt like the way it was large, like hurt 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.840 if I would move and also couldn't eat, could only 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.960 sit and watch Love Victor. I had to face time 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.000 a doctor and the doctor was like, do not under 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:21.520 any circumstances, so that only gatorade. All that to say, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:28.920 Love Victor was um good. Well, maybe if I have 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.920 a medical emergency that keeps me in bed against my 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.040 will for eight hours, then I will I will watch it. Um. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.720 The stupidest part of it, though, is that in the 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.280 final episode, Victor gets an award from his school for 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.880 being gay, which I don't think is a good thing, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.760 although the show kind of frames that is like this 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.000 is kind of bad, but like ultimately kind of good 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.440 and like, I don't know, I want a scholarship for 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.600 being gay in high school. Basically I didn't even apply 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.120 for it and I got it, but they were just 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.440 kind of like, how much money was it? Actually? I 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.320 also don't think he got I don't think he got money. 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.960 He just got an award. Oh well, that's fucking stupid. 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.360 I something that I remember about the Love Victor franchises, 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.440 they try to paint them as like a working class family, 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.160 and that that just was not I mean, if you 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.560 any context clues, like in the show, you would know 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.880 that they are probably pretty middle class. Another thing I watched, 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:28.400 unfortunately was Elvis. Oh, you didn't like it? It was 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:33.320 so bad. Really. First of all, it's two hours and 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.000 forty minutes long. Well, I mean, it is bass and 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:42.440 it's just so disinterested in being about Elvis's life and 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.800 is much more interested in just being a bas Lerman movie. Yeah, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.560 I'm such a bass stand so that doesn't sound that 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.760 bad to me. No, But like it's style over substance, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.000 but the style isn't good. I love things that are 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.760 style over something, but the style has to be good. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.520 The styles not was not good. You didn't like the 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.880 the Casey Musgraves cover, No, because what the point when 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.920 that happens? Like, I want to hear the actual song 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.800 in this Elvis biopic, not a cover of it, And 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:16.680 that was another problem I had with it. So the 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.520 movie ends when Elvis dies and then there's like a 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.080 clip montage of the real Elvis, which I hate when 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.559 that's done in biopics because it just makes me think 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.040 I should have just watched a documentary. And I also 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.520 think it undercuts the performance of the actor who's been 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.120 playing this character for the last almost three hours and 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.920 the movie did he die on the toilet? No, what 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.040 I didn't even know that that happened. All they say 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.439 is that he had a heart attack. Literally for me, like, 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.760 I think it's one of the most well known facts 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.120 of Elvis that he died from. I had no idea. 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.440 Well he did um after probably eating one of those 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.440 disgusting peanut butter and bacon sandwiches. Like peanut butter and bacon. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:59.160 That sounds incredible. I mean that he would famously like 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.360 send a private jet to go pick up this like 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.000 special sandwich that was made at some sandwich shop that 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.080 had it was a full French baguette that was scooped 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:11.040 out and filled with a pound of peanut butter, a 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:15.000 pound of bacon, bananas, and I think honey or something 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.679 like that, and fried. I want one of those. Yeah, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.120 I mean it is actually before I thought it was 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.280 really good. We should make them on Fire Island this 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.080 week and then maybe you'll be full of shit again. 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.360 Well I would never take two emmodium as the box 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:38.080 instructed ever again. Okay, Basilerman maybe had the second highest 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.040 anticipated film of this weekend after Buzz Lightyear. The Light 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.400 Year movie which you saw. I did see. Um, I've 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:46.880 been seeing a lot of movies just because I have 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.480 a lot more time on my hands. And now that 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.520 is you have the mc stuffs rewards membership, you are 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.240 cashing in. Mom. So I saw a light Year. It 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.800 was fine. It was not great, it was not bad. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.360 It was just a totally fine animated movie. Um. I 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.320 don't have a lot of nostalgia tied to toy story. No. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.480 I mean a lot of people say, like, oh, it's 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.640 one of the greatest animated films ever created. But and 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.360 it's I guess, like the the um framing of it 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.360 is kind of interesting because they said, like the way 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.120 they frame it is that this is the movie that 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:26.079 Andy saw. That the toy interesting. So like at the 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.120 beginning of the movie, it says Andy saw, like his 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.120 favorite movie, this is that movie. I love that they 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.959 are trying to convince us that there was a movie 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.640 that had one a black person in it and to 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.640 a gay kiss, a gay gay lesbian, a black lesbian, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.280 a black gay character. I don't listen. I know that 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.240 there was this whole controversy about the gay kiss. I 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.040 don't even remember if they kissed in the movie. That 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.600 fucking sucks. But also it's not surprising at all. But 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.240 I do remember, like what I thought was nice about 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.880 it was that, So the whole story is that buzz. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.400 It's like going on these missions and they only take 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.920 a couple of minutes for him, but on the planet 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.640 that he's coming from, it takes like four years. So 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.640 when he comes back for the first time, his like 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.000 partner is like, oh, I got married while you were gone, 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.320 and he says, oh, who is what's her name? Like, 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.079 and there's no kind of like mo like weird moment. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.959 He it's just like very casual, which I really appreciated, 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.640 Like I think that is a good representation, especially in 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.120 a kids movie. And they show her with her wife 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.360 and like her her son and like eventual grandchild. Um. 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.080 But this is like the first gay kiss in a 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.000 Disney I'm just so tired of Disney being like this 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.920 is our first game, like this is our first rim 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.680 job scene in the Pixar movie, and every single time 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.120 it's like a gay time's like headline Instagram post. And 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.400 I saw one the other day that was like Disney 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:55.200 to premiere the first openly gay teen romance, and I 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.560 was like, well, first of all that would suggest that 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:03.440 they were closeted and stealth teen romances in previous Disney film. 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.920 None of this, None of these words are in the Bible. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.480 Like I'm so done with the first, Like you know what, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.920 this is the first fucking on air felching on a 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:29.800 podcast about Buckle Up Virgins for the Virgins listening yesterday, 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:34.600 we are talking about Glee, the Fox Ryan Murphy TV 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:38.960 show that had an ironclad grip on pop culture in 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:45.080 the like early the Obama era, the Obama Oh my god, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.200 if if you exactly, if you want, if you want 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.800 to encapsulation of what the Obama era was like in media, 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:53.840 it was Glee. I feel that way. I feel that 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.400 Glee is the quintess Glee and True Blood are the 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:01.040 quintessential cultural products of the Obama. We should have done 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:02.760 this episode on True Blood. I mean, we can talk 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.320 about True Blood too, but they're kind of two sides 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.599 of the same coin, and they are absolutely in conversation 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.880 with each other. Well because they're both like really really 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:17.880 off the rails kind of like psychotic, yes, psychotically told um, 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:23.520 you know, drama soaps that appealed to you know, also 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.600 anyone who doesn't know, Ty, can you give like a 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.320 t l DR very brief summary of what Glee is about. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:35.760 Glee is a musical comedy on that aired on Fox 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:42.080 about a high school glee club made up of losers 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.760 and rejects and then very quickly also popular people competing 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.960 for various titles that got higher in stakes as the 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:56.640 show went on, and who were continually um attempted to 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.680 sabotage at sabotage by Plankton asque super Lynd played by 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:07.120 Jane Lynch, Sue Sylvester say her name, Um. Yeah. The 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.520 inciting incident of it is that the cool kid at 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.760 school gets blackmailed by his teacher into joining the glee club, 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:21.320 thus creating this sort of tension between the rejects and 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.520 the cool kid, and Lea Michelle is a reject and 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.880 the guy is the cool kid. Yes, Um and more 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.360 cool people joined the glee club because the cheerleading coach, 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.160 Sue Sylvester sends them in as like um spies, but 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.440 then you know they actually like it. It ran for 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:42.440 five seasons six seven. I believe I only watched two. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.920 I want to be clear about that going into the beginning. 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.520 I have only watched two seasons of Glee. I have 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.440 watched clips of other seasons of it, but that was 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.720 all I could do. I'm going to um muscle through 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.640 a blanket statement that y'all can you know, help me 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.080 maybe fix if it's an act. But I feel like 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.240 Glee came onto the scene at like another wave of 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:10.240 like gay representation post Will and Grace that was trying 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.600 to that. That I think created a new era of 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.640 like gaze on TV that were not Jack. You know, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.200 there was a lot of Jack I think still in 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.640 the show. Yeah, because Chris Colfer's character like is just 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.080 a different version of that kind of gay. But the 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.560 thing about Ryan Murphy's comedic stylings is that he really 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.120 was maybe not Ryan Murphy specifically, but the Glees comedic 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:37.000 stillings were like very like crass. They weren't afraid to 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.040 make like really inappropriate jokes. I think that a lot 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.520 was incredibly problematic and afraid to do that. That's the 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:49.440 thing is the show developed a social conscience over the 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.400 course of its run, and that's why that's part of 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.320 why I feel like it's really quinte essentially like an 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.400 Obama Obama agricultural product, is that the show kind of 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.440 became reactive to itself and to feedback to it, and 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.639 became a show that was very self aware about a 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.840 certain kind of responsibility towards representation. Yes, yes, because I 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.520 do think when it started, I remember the first episode 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:18.359 previewed a couple of months before the actual season premiered. 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.199 I think it was maybe like before the finale of 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.120 a season of American Idol or something. It was American 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.000 Idol Area, And I remember watching it with my roommate 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.000 and we thought it was the coolest, most transgressive thing ever. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.159 And I do think the early episodes of that show 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.159 are pretty radical for what was on TV at the time, 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.560 and like the kind of jokes they were making, um, 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.760 the audience that they were catering to, the identities that 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.440 they were centering. But you're right, and that it became 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:57.480 too self aware, um, and too scared of saying the 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.760 wrong thing. I can only speak for like the first season, 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.480 I feel like the gay characters in the show, we're 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.000 like pretty neutered, like because it was like still for 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.840 like a really young audience, neutered and tortured. Like the 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.720 whole season two is about Kurt being bullied. Yeah, it's 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.080 a lot of like bullying stuff. However, I remember, I 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.520 think very it gets better in my mind. I remember 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.560 hating the show when it like when I watched that 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.160 after I'm finishing the first season. But I do remember 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.680 feeling like I hadn't really watched something that had multiple 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.480 gay characters, and also like characters that or rather storylines 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.080 that were invested in the romance were like in something 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.720 like Will and Grace, like or other sitcom sitcom you 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.560 kind of vibes it's like they will never talk about 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.880 sex and there was like no kissing really on Will 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:46.720 and Grace or whatever. Obviously that was like the dawn 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.320 of like a lot of gay people on TV. But 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.800 kurt storyline was really I mean, I think if you 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.760 follow kurt storyline over the course of the show, you 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.680 do see that kind of self awareness in the sense 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.240 that like Kurt starts out as like bullied, and then 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.320 the bullying gets worse, and then his relationship with father 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.359 gets strained, and then he meets Blaine from the Warblers, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:09.360 and we get to watch a gay character get everything 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.320 that he wants, basically, like he restores his relationship with 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.199 his dad, he has a boyfriend who is beautiful, he 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.640 like goes off to the Warblers Dalton Academy and like 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.520 gets to gets to have like a community of like 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.160 young gay kids or or at least gay tolerant people. 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.720 He moves off to New York with Leah Michelle like 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.680 becomes friends with Sarah Jessica Parker. Wait, does Sarah Jessica 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.560 Parker play herself? She comes and sings Let's have a 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.280 Kiki mashed up with the Turkey Lurkey song for herself 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.480 or she playing a character? She always plays herself, really, 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.000 she kind of does. There were some great guest stars, 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.640 Like I know Kate Hudson was on it for a minute, 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.760 Me and he leaks. First season, you had Adena and 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.600 Kristen Adina Menzel playing Liam Michelle's mother was one of 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:11.159 the best casting choices I think ever. Demilovado, Lindsay Lohan, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.639 Perez Hilton, Britney Spears was on this. She was on 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.159 the Britney episode, like very briefly, just they let her 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:23.439 make a quick cameo and the conservators of the conservatorship, um, 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.240 we were going to watch an episode of Glee the 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.920 other night. It's famously not on any streaming platform for 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.239 a while. Yeah, it was removed and now it's not 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.280 anywhere streamable. But I really wanted to watch the Madonna episode, 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.439 which I do think is the best episode of Glee 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.639 of the two seasons that I've watched. What happens in 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:40.560 that episode, it's just they do a bunch of Madonna 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:44.200 numbers and it's amazing. Nothing further was Madonna that when 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:45.879 they did that was the like a virgin? Was that 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:50.280 when they did like a virgin? Whenever they yes, they 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.040 they do like a Virgin? Yeah, it would have been 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.480 so perfect for this podcast. I know, right we had 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.879 watched it. What was like your first impression of the show, Like, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:00.760 when did you watch it as it came out? Do 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.520 you remember what we were saying? So I I was 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.639 in high school. I was I was a debate kid obviously, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.399 Oh my god, that's such a good fact about you. 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.800 And when to have a particularly strong theater program at 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.919 my high school, there was just like it wasn't funded 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:19.760 at all. There was a high turnover on the people 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:21.640 who were teaching it, and there was just not very 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.680 much interest. So we didn't really have much of a 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.760 theater program. We did like one musical in the whole 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.399 four years that I was there, and I kept wanting 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.960 to apply to the theater magnet school, and like would 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.439 kind of get started application every year and then like 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.240 not go through with it because I just wanted to 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.080 stay at my same high school with all my friends. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.160 But I did become really close friends with a bunch 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:42.760 of people who were at theater program, and so I 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:47.879 was kind of like living vicariously like through these like 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:53.000 gleaked up theater friends and also through like drawing parallels 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.679 between my whole like debate team experience in Glee. But 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.360 I was like in I was in high school, as 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.600 Glee was happening, I would come to my like English 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:05.000 class and sit next to my English teacher and gag 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.439 about Glee every week. Um, so you were a Glee 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:10.359 I was. I was fully a Glee. I was fully 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.280 in it. I loved it. I was obsessed with it. 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:14.040 And then when I went to college, was around the 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.840 same time that it was like season four, season three 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.000 probably happened, and it did start to get like the 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:24.040 humor started to get not as good, and the like 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.439 social message became stronger and stronger. Can we have a 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:30.800 brief aside to talk about the relationships between gay people 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.399 and their English teachers because I came out. My English 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:36.560 teacher was maybe the fourth or fifth person I ever 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.480 came out too. Like period, I had a like, let's 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:42.840 have a Kiki kind of relationship. What was your English teacher? 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.200 Like missed of all was my ap lit teacher and 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.880 a loose cannon. And she was a total blast. And 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.840 she like seated me next to her, not because she 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.879 had to watch me, but because we would gab like 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.720 most of the glass because I was like I was 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:00.359 like bored most of the time, because I was just 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.440 like finished my work. She once famously said that I 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.800