1 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of I Heeart Radio. 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: have an interview for you with Howa Hassan. Yes, she 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: is the CEO and founder of Boss Boss Samali Foods, 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: which makes these awesome hot sauces. And recently on October 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: she debuted her first cookbook, which was this absolutely gorgeous 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: ode to East African cuisine. Um. And all of the 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: grandmothers behind it are babies, and it's called In Baby's 9 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: Kitchen and it's also co authored by Julia Terson. Um. 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: And it was just a lovely conversation. I got some 11 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: seasoning from Lauren out of it that was delicious. Um. 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: It's just a it's a really beautiful piece of work. Yeah. Yes, 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: oh my gosh. Um And uh. The last time that 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: how I was on the show back in UM, she 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: and and Julia were talking about Equity at the Table 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: or EAT, which is a project that that fights gender 17 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: and racial discrimination in the food industry by helping foster 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: connections among among members of that community who have been 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: historically at a disadvantage. Yeah. And and you can see 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: that how important that is to her in this book 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: as well. And it's I I just loved how it 22 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: was set up where it's like context of where these 23 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: recipes come from history, and then you do have these 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: interviews with these women about, um, what they grew up 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: eating and what feels like home and what recipes remind 26 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: them of home. Yeah, and and just these these stories 27 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: and these voices um that that we don't we don't 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: typically hear, especially here in the United States. Yeah and um. 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: When asked about this book, Hawa said, my number one 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: goal in all the work I do is preserving community 31 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: through stories. No one was talking to older women about food. 32 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: No one was keeping those stories. One thing white people 33 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: ask is how I found all these people. I think 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: that they don't understand the depth of community and what 35 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: it means to share. This book honors these women and 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: their stories through their recipes. These stories don't get told 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: at this level if there is no personal connection. I 38 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: hope that people walk away from the book and not 39 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: only cook for each other, but are also inspired by 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: what took place in this book. Yeah, m hmm, Yeah, 41 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: it was really lovely. Um. And just we wanted to 42 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: give a quick background on her because she's had a 43 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: pretty pretty amazing interesting life. Um So. She was born 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: in Smalia. During that country's civil war, her mother, her 45 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: four siblings, and her um went to They fled to 46 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: a Kenyan refugee camp, and when she was seven, which 47 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: was she moved by herself to Seattle to live with 48 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: a family friend. She didn't see her family for fifteen years. 49 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: Um She did have a brief stint in modeling, but 50 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: didn't like how she couldn't control the story of it. 51 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: She moved to NYC and two thousan five, but she 52 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: was frustrated by the lack of opportunities for black women, 53 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: so she went to Oslo, a snoreway and reunited with 54 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: her family. Now nine other siblings were in that family 55 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: at the time. She wanted to start a juice business, 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: and she brought her a vita mix with this in mind, 57 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: but her mother told her it was too late for that. Yes, yes, 58 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: still how I drew up a business plan, but noticed 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: that her family was eating the sausage she was making 60 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: for them in this Vita mix um and she got 61 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: the idea to start this positive conversation about being Somali 62 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: through food. She returned to Seattle and got to work 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: setting up Boss Boss with the help of her mom 64 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: and other female entrepreneurs, which I love. Yeah, absolutely so 65 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: yeah so so she started that in this line of 66 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: hot sauces and Chutney's um inspired by these heirloom recipes 67 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: and a buss bus comes from the Somali word for chili, 68 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: by the way, and um and yeah, while working on that, 69 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: got the idea to put together this book and um, 70 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: we are so excited to share the story of it, 71 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: um and in a little bit of of her inspiration 72 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: behind it with you. Yes, so I suppose without further 73 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: build up, we should let pass Lauren and Annie take 74 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:42,239 Speaker 1: it away. So how Hi, thank you so much for 75 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: for coming on the show. Thank you, Lauren, thank you 76 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Oh 77 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. Um so so the last time that 78 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: you that you spoke with us about equity at the 79 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: table back in you know, thirty million years ago along 80 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: with Julia tear shan Um you were you were talking 81 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: in that interview. I listened back to it and it 82 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: really struck me that you were you were talking about 83 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: how food and sitting down at a table um is 84 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: something that that fosters connections and so I was wondering, 85 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: were you already working on this book back then? Um? Yeah, 86 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: it depends on when it was in eighteen, but I 87 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: went to Julia about this book around Um so, yeah, 88 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: I guess we were working on it. The book sold 89 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: in today. Actually two years ago it was announced that 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: it's I came up on my It came up on 91 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: my memory on Instagram. I was like, so this is 92 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: what you were doing. I was like, oh wow, okay, 93 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: oh yeah. The The only way that I ever know 94 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: about anything that I've done in the past is when 95 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: Facebook or Instagram remind me. Um but uh, what would 96 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: you what would you walk us through the story of 97 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: how you conceived of this project and how you brought 98 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: it to life. Um? So when I started my business 99 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: in fourteen, I started to think about how I would 100 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: be able to launch just anything Africa into the West, 101 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: Like what would that take? How do people in the 102 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: West consumed things? Is it through narratives? Sit through music? Like? 103 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: What are the steps into bringing something into the world 104 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: where I live right? Like, I've lived here since nineteen 105 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: three and so I've obviously been a great consumer. I've 106 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: learned to become a great consumer and I've had a 107 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: struggle with that over the years, Like I'm a good 108 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: consumer and then I don't consume anything for a long 109 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: time and then I overdose. But I wrote it in 110 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: my business plan in fourteen. A friend of mine advised me. 111 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: He said, put down on paper how you plan to 112 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: take this business from your kitchen, and then right down 113 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: the next seven years. And so in in year four 114 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: I had that I was going to write this book. 115 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: And then while I was writing the book, I was 116 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: going to pitch a TV show, but all to only 117 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: what my life would become would be traveling around the 118 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: world and telling these type of stories. And so I 119 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: wanted to develop stories that I hadn't seen in mainstream media. 120 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: And I wanted to have a conversation about the woman 121 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: who had been the center of my life and my 122 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: saving grace for so long. And I just couldn't figure 123 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: out why that wasn't happening, and it wasn't for me 124 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,119 Speaker 1: about like you know, this comes first, and that comes second, 125 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: and this comes third. But it really was like it 126 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: might be a mess, but you've got to bring these 127 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: things to life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and um and part 128 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: of what brings all of this to life in in 129 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: your book is the beautiful photography? Um? And you are 130 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: you were? You were working with a photographer who who's 131 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: who's in East Africa? Right? Yes? Khalija. Khalija another Somali 132 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: who has some roots in Dallas but born and raised 133 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: in Nairobi. I saw her. I had a friend in 134 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: Tanzania named Kate, and I called Kate and I was like, 135 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: this was again in seventeen. I was like, I'm gonna 136 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: do this book and I need help because it has 137 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: to be Africa. And Kate, who's incredible and she's an 138 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: oral historian who tells stories about how the Germans occupied Tanzania, 139 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: sent me maybe fifteen African photographers and I was immediately 140 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: drawn to Hadija. I was like, what are the odds 141 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: that two Somali girls get to work together in this capacity? Um? 142 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: And then I was like what about both of our names? 143 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: Like being on a book that's never happened before. And 144 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: so then I went on a journey with Halija for 145 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: three years and it's been a nice one. Ah. How 146 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: did you all decide, um, what what areas and what 147 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: women and what stories and recipes to finally include? So 148 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: the idea for this book was really clear. It was 149 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: one woman I could not finding media that represented my world. Two, 150 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: it was about Africa at large. So for me, it 151 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: was it was bigger than Somalia. And I don't mean 152 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: all fifty four countries. But I didn't want to overwhelm people. 153 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: You didn't. I didn't want people to flip and then 154 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: every other page there's somewhere else, right, So I thought, 155 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: what is a way that I can from a business perspective, 156 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:30,119 Speaker 1: how can I help the consumer understand flavors of the continent. 157 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: And I knew I could easily do that through the 158 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: Indian Ocean. So the threat of this book, there's two threads. 159 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: One comes first, which is the grandmother's the babies, and 160 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: then the second is is the Indian Ocean. And so 161 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: that that's what the book is based on. It's based 162 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: on the Indian Ocean and grandmother's stories and recipes. Yeah, 163 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: and right. It is a bunch of history that every 164 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: time that we do a topic for for this show, 165 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: I wind up learning so much about about different places 166 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: and cultures and specific histories. And you know, through the 167 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: story of these foods and how they got to their 168 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: and um and and the different influences that brought, you know, 169 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: like the Cuban sandwich to life or or anything in 170 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: or jambalaya or something like that. And uh and so 171 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: so reading through this book, I was really struck by 172 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: just how how hard our education system fails us, first 173 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: of but also yeah, just it's so wonderful that you 174 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: were able to put those histories into there and to 175 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: help tell these people's stories through that. Um. But but 176 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: you had a little bit of a struggle finding a publisher, 177 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: didn't you. Um. Yeah, I think that ultimately what we 178 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: wanted to do was make sure that whoever took on 179 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: this project could follow through on what we thought would 180 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: really change the next two three years for other people 181 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: who were going to be making cookbooks and for me 182 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: it was really important to land at the right table. 183 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: And so the book was sent out to everyone, and 184 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 1: tent Speed was the only group that said we love this. 185 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: We interviewed with other people. If I'm being honest, tent 186 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: Speed was genuinely interested in learning and stepping a lot 187 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: further out. Speaking of learning, what would you say that 188 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: you learned from from working on this project and with 189 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: all of these amazing women to be flexible, to not 190 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: be attached to outcomes that nothing more than the moment matters. 191 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: You know, you talked to these women and they're talking 192 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: to you about their past, and it was for me, 193 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: it was really refreshing to spend in someone else's past 194 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: when I'm so worried about the present. And I walked 195 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: away from this project feeling like anything is possible if 196 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm able to approach it from a place of I'm 197 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: not really attached to the outcome. M hm. So that 198 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: that's been really my takeaway from this. Do you have 199 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: a favorite recipe in the book? Well, because I'm Somalia, 200 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: I would say like anything in the Somali chapter, but 201 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: that would be just silly. Um. I think that the 202 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: thing that I loved the most was one of the 203 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: things that I learned was the many different uses of 204 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: coconut milk, because we don't use coconut milk like that 205 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: in Somalia. We use it here and there in the stews. 206 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: But from you, the use of coconut milk was a 207 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: big takeaway. And just how similar every baby was to 208 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: the others. It was crazy to me to like, how 209 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: could they be from French speaking countries, English speaking countries, 210 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: you know, Um, Italian speaking countries, Dutch speaking countries, but 211 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: still all have so many stories that are so rooted 212 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: in the same experience. We have some more of her 213 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: interview with how but first we have a quick break 214 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: for Wordsimer Sponsor, and we're back. Thank you Sponsored. Let's 215 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: get back into it. Would you, would you tell us 216 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: about your BB's kitchen. So my grandmother is similar to 217 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: my mom. I guess if my mom comes from CHAOSO 218 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: does my grandmother? My grandmother is not. She is not 219 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: a cook. She gives a lot of instructions as my 220 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: mom does. My grandmother had a lot of daughters in 221 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: the same way that my mom did. My mom had 222 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: five daughters, and so my mom is much more of 223 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: the person who works outside the house. And in my 224 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: grandmother's experience that was also true. And so her kitchen 225 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: was filled with aunties. It was filled with cousins that 226 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: were older. It still is oftentimes. The gatekeeper of her 227 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: kitchen was my little sister Holden, who now is a 228 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: mom to two kids and lives in Norway. But my 229 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: sister Holden was the one who did the mending of 230 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: her kitchen as we were growing up, because she lived 231 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: with my grandmother in the country, and so yeah, that's 232 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: I guess what I would say about my grandma's kitchen. 233 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: My yeah, yeah, where, Um, where did you learn to 234 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: cook at other people's homes? Yeah? At you know, in 235 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: my apartment in Fort Green when I moved here of 236 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: age at nineteen, traveling. I've lived all over the world, 237 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: and you know, today I was looking through photos of 238 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: me in Cape Town in two thousand and nine. It 239 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: was eleven years ago, which seems like a lifetime ago. 240 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: So at the foot of other chefs there, but mainly 241 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: from the woman in my life, my friend's mom's, my 242 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: friend's grandmother's, and then the very beginning of it really 243 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: started with just having to be an extra hand in 244 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: my family from the age of four to seven. A 245 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: lot a lot of what you're talking about, and a 246 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: lot of the stories in this book talk about our 247 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: these communities and these communal spaces. Um. And so I 248 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: know that this is like a really loaded question right now. Um, 249 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: but but but how are you doing? Um, you know, 250 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: with with with COVID, we're dealing with this loss of 251 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: these of these communal spaces. How how are you coping? 252 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: I haven't. If I'm being really honest, I haven't lost 253 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: a sense of community because I've spent most of my 254 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: COVID serving the people in my neighborhood. I've said this 255 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: before and I'll say it again, but one in four 256 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: kids in New York City are starving. So I've I've 257 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: spent a big part of my energy before going on 258 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: promotion for this cookbook figuring out how to support that effort. 259 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: So we work closely with Brotherhood Sister Soul. They feed 260 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: six under people per week. We joined them every other 261 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: week in our efforts prior to that, we're feeding all 262 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: six hospitals in Brooklyn every week. So maybe the form 263 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: of community and gathering has changed for me, and that 264 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: it's no longer about what how it likes and what 265 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: how it wants to do, but more about like what 266 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: do I have to do in Port Green and how 267 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: can I be of service to the people around me? 268 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: And so I've spent I spent March to now trying 269 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: to figure out how to make them more seamless so 270 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: that I'm not always burnt out. But personally I'm I 271 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: don't know if I'm coming or going. Uh, that's completely relatable, 272 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: um to Uh? Now that's that that that's really wonderful. 273 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you're that you're getting to work 274 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,359 Speaker 1: with that. And that's been one of the most remarkable 275 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: things to me watching during the pandemic and the shutdown, 276 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: the way that food industry and uh and and home 277 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: cooks have come together to help feed people and to 278 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: help figure out like, okay, like if if this infrastructure 279 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: is kind of breaking down, like what do we like, 280 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: how do we get how do we support the farmers, 281 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: how do we support people who are out of work 282 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: right now? How do we you know, get how do 283 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: we feed everyone? And and so? And it totally makes 284 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: sense that that you would have jumped right in from 285 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: from what you were talking about when when you and 286 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: Julia were talking about like feed the resistance and um 287 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. I think that I don't 288 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: like that so many people had to suffer and are 289 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: still suffering during COVID, but I, honest to goodness, think 290 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: that the saving grace of this thing has been there's 291 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: a trigger, a small grain has changed in the fabric 292 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: of the people in this country, and I hope for 293 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: the better. I mean, we'll find out in November, but yeah, 294 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: and that people are really worried about their next door 295 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: neighbor in a way that they haven't been in a 296 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: long time. We've got a little bit more of this 297 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: interview for you, but first we've got one more quick 298 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 299 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, and back to the interview. What are 300 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: you what are you hoping for the future? I mean, 301 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, November side. Um, for for for this book, 302 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: and for your business and for yourself. Um. And and 303 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: do you have any new projects in the works? For 304 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: this project, I hope that people are able to see 305 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: themselves in it. Um. I hope that people feel really 306 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: close to it. This is this is not a how 307 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: a project, you know. This is so much more about 308 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: the baby's and the country's in it than it is 309 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: about me. And I hope that everybody adopts these recipes 310 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: and makes it their own, you know. That's what's so 311 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: exciting to me, is the idea that this could be 312 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: so much more bigger than just the book. And for myself, 313 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: I hope to be somebody who makes room for other people. UM. 314 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: I'm working on being patient so uh and and in 315 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: that like I patient and like trusting that what is 316 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: coming is good and not you know, not hiding out 317 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: in fear and worrying just about like how it might 318 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: affect me and people who look like me and for 319 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: my business. I hope that you know, that's best grows 320 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: on and makes more room for other people who can 321 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: make similar things, and you know that it gets to 322 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: sit alongside hinds and and there's not a second thought 323 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: about it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I part part of 324 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: my part of my homework this week, and in addition 325 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: to reading a lot about cannibalism, I made um. I 326 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: made the Semli spice blend um hallash because I think 327 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: I saw that on the internet you made halash. Yeah yeah, 328 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: and um and I made your I made your pasta 329 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: sauce with it. Heard my own take on it because 330 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: I can't, shouldn't. How was it? Oh? It was so 331 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: good and it filled oh man like making making this 332 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: spice blend filled my house with the most amazing kind 333 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: of to my palates surprising combination of because because you've 334 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: got all of those like like as as like a 335 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: European American, um, all of these spices, the clove and 336 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: the cinnamon, um and the cardamom that reminds me of 337 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: like a pie spice like a dessert holiday kind of 338 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and then layering in these things that 339 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: I traditionally associate again as a as a white girl 340 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: with like with like either Italian or Um or maybe 341 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: like like Mexican, like Spanish Mexican cooking, the cilantro and 342 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: the coriander and the cuman um and so so to 343 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: my palate, it's it's it's very surprise thing. But then 344 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: in a way that just makes perfect sense, like it's 345 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: it's not it's so good. Um, So thank I don't know, 346 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: just thank you so much for sharing that with me, 347 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: um and Annie I. And it was all stuff that 348 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: I had in my cupboard, and Annie, I know that 349 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: you don't have the same kind of cupboard, and so 350 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to bring you some. Yes, make a small 351 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: dar for Annie, like a starter dar. Please do. Yeah. 352 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: There are so many recipes in the book, um that 353 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to try. And it's just a beautiful book. 354 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: And congrats on doing that, by the way, because I 355 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: know it's not easy. And I love that it provides 356 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: these recipes and these stories, provide this history and this 357 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: context and just over and over again the importance of 358 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: food and human connection and um community and celebrating home 359 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: cooks and recipes, as stories, as history, and the importance 360 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: of preserving those things and passing them on. Why do 361 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: you think that's important? Has that always been something that 362 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: has been important to you? I don't know that it 363 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: has honestly, Um, you know, I spent a great deal 364 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: of my life trying to not my life, but like 365 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: a big part of my seattle of bringing trying to 366 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: get away from myself, right, Like trying to get away 367 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: from this identity. I was like, I'm not Somali. Meanwhile, 368 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: It's like, no, you are. We've seen your forehead. Uh. 369 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: But it only became important to me when I came 370 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: around to myself. So when I got in deep relationship 371 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: with me, I was like, oh, the essence of me 372 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: is Somali. It's what Somali people call nimma. Like you've 373 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: got the Somali nimma, Like your essence is Somali. Right, 374 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: And that's when it dawned on me, like, what what 375 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: is what is this life of mine in New York 376 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: that I'm trying to preserve so hard? What is it 377 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: about this modeling world that I'm trying to fit into 378 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: so badly when it so desperately rejects me, like when 379 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't want me. And that's when it became really 380 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: clear to me, after spending lots of time with my 381 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: sisters and my mom and my brothers, I had something 382 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: to offer, and I had something to pass on, and 383 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: I had something to preserve, and maybe it wasn't a 384 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: part of the narrative already. And so what I really 385 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: hope for in just in me and how I present 386 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: myself and who I am is I don't care if 387 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: the person is African, if they're Cambodian. I want them 388 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: to preserve their stories for themselves. I want them to 389 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: be able to share their grandmother's stories with their children, 390 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: because so much has been lost from countries that you know, 391 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: have been devastated by civil war plus plus plus um, 392 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,479 Speaker 1: and people who have been just completely uprooted. Right, and 393 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: so now it is, But it wasn't always important for 394 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: me to preserve and pass on. And when I think 395 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: about having little Somali daughters, I'm like, how do I 396 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: how do I start creating things that my children are 397 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: proud of? Because they're gonna have to know about this stuff, right, Like, 398 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm so thankful I have a life now where my 399 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: daughters will grow up with halage in our in our pantry, 400 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: and they'll know how to make butterbre from scratch and 401 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: sabaya making will come natural to them, where for me 402 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: I spent you know, for a long time I was like, 403 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: this is this is not who I'm going to become. 404 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to be a modern American woman. I don't 405 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: even know what that means. But none of those that's 406 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: the problem. Yeah, Oh that was another beautiful piece of 407 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: this is just the emphasis you put on these strong 408 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: women and generations of strong women and supporting some women 409 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: supporting each other. That was just really gorgeous. Thank you. 410 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: It's nice to see. Thank you, Anny. Is there anything 411 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: else that you would like to discuss that we haven't 412 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: touched on. I hope that anyone who's listening to this 413 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: podcast and anyone who has the capacity to give something 414 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: new a try. Does you know? The world is grand? 415 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: And don't don't get stuck to your corners. You know, 416 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: where can the good listeners find you? Just on Instagram 417 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: at how a Hassan or at best best Sauce dot 418 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: com on the Internet or at Best Best Sauce Instagram 419 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: excellent the book of course, yes, everywhere books are sold. 420 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: That brings us to the end of this our interview. 421 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed 422 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: doing it. As always, we always we get to be 423 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: the coolest people through this. Yes, Oh all the time, 424 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: I I feel I feel so lucky every time we 425 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: get to have a conversation like this, just you know, 426 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: with with with someone who has lived such an amazing 427 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: life and is doing such amazing things and and and 428 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: sharing stories like this, And this is a gorgeous cookbook. 429 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: I really cannot recommend enough that y'all go check it out. 430 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I am so excited to try try so 431 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: many of these recipes. And I love too how it's 432 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: it's just so approachable. Um I I because I'm somebody 433 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: who does get intimidated just by like recipes in general. 434 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: I'm a very like even though I have cooked things 435 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: that are difficult, I just I'll be like, well, it's 436 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: not worth the effort. But a lot of times it 437 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: absolutely is worth the effort, and the effort isn't that 438 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: much anyway, you'll be fine. So I love how it 439 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of lays out like you got, you got this. Yeah, 440 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: it does, it does yes, um, so absolutely go check 441 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: it out. Uh And in the meantime, if you would 442 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,239 Speaker 1: like to send us what you're cooking during this our 443 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: quarantine time so we would love to hear it, you 444 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: can email us at hello at savor pod dot com. 445 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: We're also on social media, so you can get in 446 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: touch with us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram at savor pod, 447 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is 448 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: a production of our Heart Radio. For more podcasts, my 449 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: heart Radio, you can visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 450 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 451 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: always to our super producers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. 452 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 453 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: more good things are coming your way.