1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to Switched on the Bloomberg any F podcast.

2
00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm Dana Perkins. The game for floating wind here is

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,360
Speaker 1: not to make sure the tab wines don't fall over.

4
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 1: That's not the concern the concerned Attornia Costa. Each week

5
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 1: we speak with a different b ANF analyst about recent

6
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 1: research and what it all means. Note that BNF does

7
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: not provide investment or strategy advice, and you can hear

8
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,319
Speaker 1: our full disclaimer at the end of today's show. This week,

9
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: our podcast is going to focus on topics in two

10
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,960
Speaker 1: separate areas and two separate research notes that we wrote,

11
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,880
Speaker 1: one on floating wind and another on airborne wind. So

12
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,480
Speaker 1: they're titled Floating Wind Drifts Towards Viability and Airborne Wind

13
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 1: Energy Waiting for Takeoff. They're available for BENNF clients on

14
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,199
Speaker 1: BNF dot Com or at b NF go on the terminal.

15
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,199
Speaker 1: My inner geek really loves to hear about new technologies

16
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 1: in the spaces that we cover, and today is no exception.

17
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: We're gonna be joined today by Tom Harry's senior associate

18
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: and member of our wind analyst team, who has a

19
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 1: particular emphasis on offshore wind. Hi Tom, thank you for

20
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,039
Speaker 1: joining us. Hey Dana, nice to be here. So today

21
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about floating wind and airborne wind.

22
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: Of these two, let's get started more with the floating

23
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,560
Speaker 1: wind side of things, um, since I guess that's the

24
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: more established of the two technologies, and I'd love for

25
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,400
Speaker 1: you to paint a picture in my mind of what

26
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: that really looks like. Sure, it's basically a wind turbine

27
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,200
Speaker 1: at sea, sitting on a boat like structure in most cases,

28
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 1: so there are a few different designs, but in essence

29
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 1: you've got a wind turbine which is exactly like a

30
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,040
Speaker 1: winter one on land and like other offshore two ones,

31
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: but in the floating case it's sat on either a wide,

32
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 1: shallow structure or slim, long, thin structure. Um. And there's

33
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,080
Speaker 1: a few different designs in between the two. Who was

34
00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,560
Speaker 1: basically a choices and these ones are much further off

35
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 1: shore than the wind turbines that were used to seeing

36
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 1: off shore today. Correct, absolutely, while the demos they're close,

37
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 1: but in future, yes, they should be further from shore.

38
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,920
Speaker 1: And the idea here is essentially floating wind operates in

39
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: water depths beyond fifty deep and to get the fifty

40
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 1: ms you've got to go far from shore. Now. I've

41
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,399
Speaker 1: seen some of these at the Closet coast of Kent

42
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 1: and they are huge. Are the floating ones bigger smaller?

43
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,760
Speaker 1: They won't be smaller. Bigger is better, and offshore they're

44
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 1: going to stay big and they're probably gonna get much bigger.

45
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 1: I think we've actually run out of comparison buildings for

46
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 1: offshore turb ones anyway. No, Look, they're gonna get bigger.

47
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: They're going to be at the same scale as normal

48
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,639
Speaker 1: offshore wind turbines. But in reality, if they tap these

49
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,720
Speaker 1: deeper waters, then you probably won't see them from shore.

50
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 1: After about fifty kilometers from shore, you shouldn't be able

51
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 1: to see an offshore wind turbine. And they're probably going

52
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: to beyond fifts. So will we lose a lot of

53
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,919
Speaker 1: electricity and the transmission distribution bring it back? No, not much,

54
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,680
Speaker 1: very little actually, And there's already offshore wind farms operating

55
00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,399
Speaker 1: at those distances in some countries like Germany, even even

56
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 1: up to a hundred kilometers even beyond that now, so

57
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: the distance isn't a new thing, it's the depth doesn't

58
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 1: new Okay, So pivoting over to airborne wind. Can you

59
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,640
Speaker 1: tell me a bit about what these look like and

60
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 1: how far along some of this technology actually is. Yeah,

61
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 1: this stuff is pretty cool. Um, and they look there's

62
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 1: two different well totally different designs. So one looks like

63
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 1: an airplane with lots of little rotors on it, and

64
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 1: the other looks like a kite serving kite. Ultimately, so

65
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 1: one looks like a soft material like structure and the

66
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 1: other one is a rigid structure. Okay, so these things

67
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 1: go up into the sky. How do we get them

68
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: up into the sky to begin with? Some need help,

69
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: so some need to essentially be lifted high up. That

70
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 1: could be maybe drones in future. Brothers can basically operate

71
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 1: themselves upwards and then once they're high enough they start generating.

72
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 1: So literally one so one technology type generates electricity in

73
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 1: the ear, so the wind comes in, it spins a

74
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: rotor which generates electricity and they send it to the ground.

75
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 1: The other one doesn't generate electricity in the ear. It

76
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 1: pulls a cable which generates electricity on the ground. So

77
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 1: if you're the one that can generate on board, you

78
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: have the ability to act like a motor when you're

79
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 1: on the land. Lifting yourself up and then once you're

80
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: high enough, you switch to generating and you start generating power.

81
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,840
Speaker 1: The other one gradually comes down to earth and then

82
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,760
Speaker 1: needs help get them back up again, and then it

83
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: gradually comes down to earth and then back again. So

84
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 1: how do we keep these from falling out of sky

85
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:42,600
Speaker 1: and squishing people? Um, don't ask me no. Look there

86
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: in the process of sorting this out, there's demonstrations, there's prototypes,

87
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 1: it's all R and D work, and this is one

88
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 1: of the issues they have to solve. You have to

89
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,280
Speaker 1: solve the safety issue because I mean, logically, you're looking

90
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 1: at these things, and then again they're they're flying devices,

91
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 1: so they're probably going to be under the regulations similar

92
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: to airplanes. They need to be safe. Eventually, they're meant

93
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,840
Speaker 1: to operate autonomously, so that they need to prove that

94
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: that they can operate day in day out without human intervention. Um,

95
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 1: and I guess they're going to have to prove that

96
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 1: their systems have got redundancies. If one cable snaps, is

97
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 1: there another cable to help it come back down to ground.

98
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,600
Speaker 1: So definitely issues to be solved. So you're mentioning they

99
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 1: look like airplanes what about airplanes? Are they going to

100
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,800
Speaker 1: get in the way? Are they not quite that high up?

101
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: Most they're not trying to get that high up. We're

102
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 1: talking hundreds of meters in height, maybe a hundred to

103
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 1: four hundred in most cases. Some are looking in a

104
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,960
Speaker 1: thousand meters and beyond mark, which again would be low

105
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 1: enough to not impact aeroplanes and so on. But look,

106
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,640
Speaker 1: potentially these devices might be in areas where they're out

107
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: of flight paths. For example, some are looking at nuclear

108
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,359
Speaker 1: plant facilities where they typically have a no fly zone,

109
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,719
Speaker 1: so maybe that opens up a market for them. And

110
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 1: again others are looking at maybe off grade there is

111
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 1: more mountainous areas. Because if you think about these devices,

112
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 1: unlike wind turbines, they're actually thinking of tapping the smaller

113
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,800
Speaker 1: scale market. So disaster relief for example. So there's been

114
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 1: a natural disaster somewhere, could be anything hurricane, mud slides, whatever,

115
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: and they're off grid. Power has been cut off. Now

116
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,799
Speaker 1: you can turn up with a lorry with a trailer

117
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:21,719
Speaker 1: one of these things in the back, or two of

118
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,680
Speaker 1: these things, or five of these things, and you can

119
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: unload it and deploy it pretty quickly. I mean these

120
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 1: things used ten of the material of a wind turbine,

121
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,600
Speaker 1: and therefore you can get quick power on which makes

122
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 1: them also theoretically cheaper to manufacturer. Correct in principle, yes,

123
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 1: but they will use more expensive and complex materials. So

124
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,119
Speaker 1: winterbines lots of steel, lots of very easily accessible, fairly

125
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 1: cheap material. These are going to operate a bit like aeroplanes,

126
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 1: so they're going to have light ware. They're gonna need lightweight.

127
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: In hence you can imagine some crossover with the supply

128
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,280
Speaker 1: chain of the aerospace industry. So the people are doing

129
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,799
Speaker 1: the R and D for these airborne wind energy systems.

130
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,559
Speaker 1: Are they largely also a material scientists? Are they looking

131
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 1: more at the engineering part of it? Yeah, a good question.

132
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,880
Speaker 1: I mean they're probably are anautical engineers. These are not

133
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 1: winterbine engineers crossing over to the dark side. This is this,

134
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a whole new set of engineers. Actually,

135
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the ideas have come from existing technologies,

136
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 1: maybe from sailing boats for example, or really high up

137
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: antenna and so on and so forth. There's some crossovers

138
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 1: with other industries. So yeah, you'd say it's a whole

139
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: new batch of engineers and designers and R and E people. Okay,

140
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 1: but so you can set them up in reasonably small

141
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: amounts of space. Am I going to be able to

142
00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 1: get one of these from my house someday? Probably not. Um.

143
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 1: I can't imagine them being on households, and even if

144
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: they are, that's probably further afield. Again. Um, Like as

145
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 1: a household, you want something probably a bit simpler and

146
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: with less moving parts because you're not going to maintain that.

147
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: You don't want to become a specialist in fixing wind

148
00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 1: turbines and kites and so on. But like a disaster

149
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: relief even maybe utility scale, you know, mega wat's worth

150
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 1: of power, that could be the future. But we think

151
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: you're probably looking at five years minimum, more like ten

152
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 1: before we see any of these emerging any significant scale. Okay,

153
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 1: so five to ten years for this. How far in

154
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 1: the future is floating wind today? It's now. I mean

155
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 1: people are already building floating winter one. Where can I

156
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: see one? So you could travel north, you could go

157
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 1: to Scotland. You could see five floating turbines there. Floating

158
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,800
Speaker 1: winter tourism. I'm ready for it. Ask a local fishermen

159
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,920
Speaker 1: to take you on. There's a floating turbine of France.

160
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 1: It was one of Portugal Japan A looking at it

161
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,719
Speaker 1: and look into the future. France are looking pretty big

162
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 1: on floating wind. If you go to the Mediterranean side,

163
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 1: very deep waters, and also nobody wants to be closer

164
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,679
Speaker 1: short you don't want to see winter wines when you're

165
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,480
Speaker 1: somewhere there on the beach, so generally they're looking further

166
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 1: from shore, deeper waters opened the door floating wind, and

167
00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 1: then further afield. There's some interesting crossovers. So if you

168
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: look at somewhere like Japan very deep waters, or someone

169
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: like Career where they have lots of ship building expertise,

170
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: and you've got to think about floating wind as more

171
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 1: like ships than conventional foundations. So there's lots of skill

172
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: crossovers there. Now, floating wind the use cases offshore, but

173
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 1: you can also have some of this airborne wind off shore.

174
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,440
Speaker 1: So should the floating wind manufacturers be worried that the

175
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,720
Speaker 1: airborne manufacturers are going to come and eat their lunch

176
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 1: or they largely different use cases. That's a good one.

177
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 1: There's probably enough lunch to go around. But I would

178
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: say look as early doors for airborne wind, they're not competitors.

179
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 1: Yet there's probably a use case for both and everyone's happy.

180
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: But right now, actually, when it comes to the offshore

181
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 1: side of airborne wind, there's more of a discussion around

182
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: repowering decommission sites. So if you think about the early

183
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 1: offshore wind farms, those turbines now look like toy turbines.

184
00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 1: I mean, compared to the scale of today, the minuscule.

185
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 1: So let's say you chop off the turbine, you're left

186
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: with a platform. Let's see, it's way too small to

187
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,960
Speaker 1: put on today's big turbines. So incomes air born wind, smaller,

188
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,080
Speaker 1: lighter kites. They could potentially reuse these platforms and basically

189
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: repower old offshore wind farms. So it's a good use

190
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 1: case there. So these are these are pretty cool technologies

191
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 1: we're talking about because they're really emerging. And I think

192
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,079
Speaker 1: for a while, you know, we're talking about wind turbines

193
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,559
Speaker 1: and it was just like, oh, they'll get bigger and

194
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: they'll generate more. But now we're completely rethinking what this

195
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: stuff looks like. Are there other technologies aside from these

196
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,280
Speaker 1: two that maybe we're not ready to write a research

197
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 1: note about, but you feel are definitely bubbling under the

198
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: surface in this kind of R and D sort of world.

199
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: So floating wind and kites, air kites and okay, okay, fine,

200
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,559
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, look,

201
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,480
Speaker 1: normal wind it's getting very cheap, right, So you've got

202
00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,080
Speaker 1: to think about the incentive of trying to find a

203
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 1: new technology you for generating from. But wind, and there's

204
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,320
Speaker 1: not that many use cases. Float Airborne wind works really

205
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,240
Speaker 1: well in places that have low wind speeds close to ground.

206
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,200
Speaker 1: So if you got higher and higher and higher, you

207
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: could tap stronger and more stable wind speeds. So it's

208
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: really good for markets where wind speeds close to the

209
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 1: ground too low to make wind economic. Floating wind opens

210
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: up a use case where waters are too deep for

211
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: bottom fixed let's say turbines fixed the sea then, and

212
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,839
Speaker 1: what's left in between where the market I don't know.

213
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,679
Speaker 1: I think for now, that's enough home floating home wind.

214
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 1: There we go. That's that's what it is. Maybe we'll

215
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 1: get there someday. Um, So who's that skin in the

216
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 1: game on these sorts of technologies and who's developing them? Sure?

217
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 1: I mean, let's start with the wind kites, right, So

218
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,439
Speaker 1: they started off and are still largely dominated by R

219
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,080
Speaker 1: and D people, technology developers, entrepreneurs and so on and

220
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 1: so forth. But we've recently seen the utilities in the

221
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: oil and gas sector get involved. So shall have invested

222
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 1: in the Google owned McConney technology Now that looks like

223
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,079
Speaker 1: an airplane. They've got a six water I think device

224
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: currently being tested. Then you've got Eon. Eon have invested

225
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,480
Speaker 1: in Ampics and again they're looking at potentially repowering their

226
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 1: offshore wind farms. And then you've got Saipem, an Italian

227
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,440
Speaker 1: oil company. They've invested in kai Chen. So there's a

228
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,319
Speaker 1: real mixtair of huge players and these local, smaller R

229
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,560
Speaker 1: and D players trying to make the market work. And

230
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,040
Speaker 1: so you'd think the nimbleness of the small companies, combined

231
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,680
Speaker 1: with the balance sheet and the understanding of the big

232
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,959
Speaker 1: old and gas companies, could accelerate the sector. Now, is

233
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: it the same sorts of companies that are looking at

234
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,319
Speaker 1: offshore wind? Is it? Is it oil and gas also

235
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 1: looking at that? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, I mean well off

236
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 1: shore floating wind. Sorry I've got to specify specified, Okay, yeah,

237
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean three years ago, people thinking that floating wind

238
00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 1: was a totally separate sector to normal offshore wind, normal

239
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 1: offshore wind being the stuff fixed the seabed in reality,

240
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,439
Speaker 1: is the same players wanting to do both. Okay, because

241
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 1: what floating wind does is offers more growth opperto unities

242
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,080
Speaker 1: to normal offshowing developers. Everyone's interested in terms of who's

243
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,640
Speaker 1: sort of been leading the floating market. Then you've got Echono,

244
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,959
Speaker 1: big Norwegian player. They installed the first ever float in

245
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 1: turbine and they've installed a floating demonstration park. Are they're

246
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,679
Speaker 1: looking at new markets to open up for floating wind.

247
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 1: You've got a number of small technology players, but even

248
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 1: the French utilities. If France becomes a big floating market

249
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 1: like we believe, and these guys on their doorstep, they've

250
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 1: got huge potential. So they're looking to get expertise and

251
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: I guess build up their knowledge and move up the

252
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,960
Speaker 1: learning curve of floating wind. Let's talk a little bit

253
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 1: about the costs here, because I think that's you know,

254
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,280
Speaker 1: you've talked a little bit about the companies that are

255
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,800
Speaker 1: actually interested in investing in this technology, and there definitely

256
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 1: is that market opportunity. But having read both of these

257
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,720
Speaker 1: research notes back to back, what I'm seeing is floating

258
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:55,480
Speaker 1: wind super expensive and airborne wind fairly cost competitive as

259
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,079
Speaker 1: soon as they get the technology going in the next

260
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 1: couple of years. Although I guess we're talking about a

261
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,840
Speaker 1: bit of a kind of a mythical creature here since

262
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,199
Speaker 1: it's not fully fully developed technology. Um, what are your

263
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 1: views on the big hurdles for kind of both of

264
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 1: these industries and becoming cost competitive. Yeah, I mean everything

265
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,840
Speaker 1: starts expensive, right. So these projects and these these technologies

266
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 1: are all at the demonstration stage. You're building small projects.

267
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,920
Speaker 1: You've got no economies of scale, you've got no price

268
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 1: in power, et cetera. Now we're probably thinking everyone wind

269
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 1: minimum five years more like ten years away. Anything utility

270
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,240
Speaker 1: scale floating wind is very close. We've already got operating

271
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 1: demonstration projects and markets and governments already looking at supporting

272
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 1: floating wind at some serious scale, you know, three hundred

273
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 1: five hundred megawatson beyond what government? So which which locales? France, Okay, Japan,

274
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: potentially Korea, the US off the west coast, maybe the

275
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 1: UK and all these markets either because they don't have

276
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: enough shallow waters for normal offshore wind, or because they're

277
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 1: looking to diversify, or because it's industrial strategy. Maybe they

278
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 1: want to ex bought some of the skills they have

279
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: frof shore deep water expertise safe in Norway, for example,

280
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 1: with all the oil and gas platform expertise, there's a

281
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: direct cross over the floating wind. Most floating wind technologies

282
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 1: have all come from oil and gas. There's online gas

283
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 1: platforms already sitting on floating platforms. So it all sounds

284
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 1: really new and glamorous, but in reality it's tried and

285
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 1: tested tech, so so that the game for floating wind

286
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: here is not to make sure the turbines don't fall over.

287
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 1: That's not the concern here. The concern is trying to

288
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 1: get costa and right now, bigger turbines is better. The

289
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 1: bigger the better frofshore wind every time, bigger the better. Okay, now,

290
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 1: what are some of the maybe people were thinking these

291
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 1: aren't going to necessarily be possible. What are the barriers?

292
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked about cost being definitely something is

293
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 1: going to have to come down do this at scale.

294
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 1: But we've seen this story over and over again in

295
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 1: the renewable industry, and you know, it's it's sort of

296
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,040
Speaker 1: kind of the tread and true barrier that somebody has

297
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,200
Speaker 1: to cross. What are some of the technical puzzles that

298
00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 1: maybe they haven't yet solved. It's funny, actually it is

299
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 1: a physical muzzle. So these things are massive. The floating

300
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 1: platforms are huge. They could be thirty in dimensions, they

301
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 1: can be up to a hundred meters deep. And essentially

302
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 1: building lots of these things close to shore where you

303
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 1: can drag them out to your wind farm is tricky

304
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: and untested. So there needs to be production lines that

305
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,560
Speaker 1: are bigger, because even though conventional offshore wind is massive,

306
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 1: these floating platforms are bigger. So new production lines, a

307
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 1: new supply chain, and the ability to build lots and

308
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 1: lots of these things. And then once you've got them

309
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 1: out there, for example at the wind farm operating, how

310
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 1: do you maintain them? So for example a blade breaks

311
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 1: or a gear box blows up, whatever it is normally

312
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 1: in bottom fixed offshore wind, take out one of these

313
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 1: huge vessels. They stick their legs into the ground, they

314
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 1: raise off the sea floor and they can then change

315
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 1: the gear box, change a blade from a fixed stationary platform.

316
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 1: You can't do that in deep orders and by definition

317
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,000
Speaker 1: floating winners and deep worters, So there are challenges on maintenance.

318
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 1: Do you drag them back to shore to change your blade.

319
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 1: Sounds good and logical, that's tricky. You've got to unplug stuff,

320
00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: plug stuff back in. Doing things offshore is always difficult. Um,

321
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 1: so those things need to be ironed out, and really

322
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,679
Speaker 1: those things will be solved or hopefully solved in the

323
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:12,439
Speaker 1: next few iterations of projects. So look, we're expecting a

324
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: few more demos off France, a decent sized project in Norway,

325
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: maybe a few other smaller demos, and these should iron

326
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: out the problems. So you've said that bigger is better

327
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,360
Speaker 1: in the wind space, Are we going to see the

328
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 1: end of regular onshore wind because these offshore things are

329
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: definitely either offshore grounded or offshore floating are a lot bigger, right, Yeah, Look,

330
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 1: we're still going to see a mix of both, and

331
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: obviously there are some countries of our coastline, so there

332
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 1: you go. And even the ones with coastlines, onshore wind

333
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 1: is generally quite cheap in most places around the world,

334
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: so we'll see a mix. And maybe you've got a

335
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,640
Speaker 1: lack of land in some places, particularly some Asian markets,

336
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 1: were actually they're looking at the sea because there's more

337
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 1: space there. But generally it will still see a mix,

338
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: but I expect to see a larger share of floating

339
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: and all show in the future. Thank you very much

340
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: for joining us today and talking about airborne wind energy,

341
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 1: waiting for takeoff and floating wind drifts towards viability. It's

342
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 1: really good having you here today. Yeah, thanks to ask

343
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 1: b an e F is a service provided by Bloomberg

344
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,959
Speaker 1: Finance LP and its affiliates. The recording does not constitute,

345
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 1: nor should it be construed, as investment and vice investment recommendations,

346
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 1: or a recommendation as to an investment or other strategy.

347
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and f should not be considered as information sufficient

348
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 1: upon which to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg Finance

349
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 1: LP nor its affiliates makes any representation or warranty as

350
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 1: to the accuracy or competentness of the information contained in

351
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,439
Speaker 1: this recording, and any liability as a result of this

352
00:18:47,560 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 1: recording is expressly disclaimed. Two