Speaker 1: From executive search to talent strategy, leadership development, rewards and
Speaker 1: succession planning. Corn Fairy can help you realize the full
Speaker 1: potential of your people so you can take your business
Speaker 1: where it wants to go up. Learn more at corn
Speaker 1: Ferry dot com slash up. Every year, there's a raft
Speaker 1: of stories that come out, and you've all seen them
Speaker 1: talking about how Americans change careers, and almost all of
Speaker 1: these stories cite the exact same statistic. Americans change careers
Speaker 1: roughly seven times in their lifetime. Seven That seems incredibly high.
Speaker 1: It would be very difficult just to change careers even once,
Speaker 1: considering that leaving your career and starting a new one
Speaker 1: would be ridiculously daunting, But what if you did it?
Speaker 1: You're listening to game Plan. I'm Sam Robert. I'm a
Speaker 1: writer at Bloomberg Business Week Magazine. And I'm Rebecca Greenfield,
Speaker 1: I'm a reporter at Bloomberg rag Fair workplace Culture, and
Speaker 1: today we're talking about something that neither of us have
Speaker 1: ever done, which has changed careers. We've both maintained long
Speaker 1: and prosperous ten years in the world of media and journalism. Yes,
Speaker 1: I have worked in digital media since straight out of college,
Speaker 1: and the idea of changing careers now six long, forever
Speaker 1: years and does seem impossible, And celebrating my twentieth year
Speaker 1: of employment would also seem ridiculous for me to do
Speaker 1: as well, particularly since I have mortgage and children and
Speaker 1: a car payment. Yes, but we're the outliers. Presumably there
Speaker 1: are many people out there who would like to change careers.
Speaker 1: You know, just talk to your friends. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: some fraction of them that hate their jobs. Yeah, are
Speaker 1: like I can relate to your kind of like put
Speaker 1: yourself on this track. You're straight out of college, you're
Speaker 1: stressed about getting a job in the first place, and
Speaker 1: then you turn around five ten years later and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't really like this, or I don't like even
Speaker 1: like part of my job. Even right now. I feel
Speaker 1: like sometimes I'm kind of figure out what are the
Speaker 1: things that I like best about my job and try
Speaker 1: to pivot myself in that direction, because you could just
Speaker 1: kind of stand this track forever and then you end
Speaker 1: up kind of unhappy, right and yet you've invested time,
Speaker 1: you've invested energy, maybe you've even invested money when it
Speaker 1: comes to like graduate education or things like that. So
Speaker 1: there are a lot of forces of inertia that will
Speaker 1: try to keep you where you are. But I think
Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems is actually a very popular sentiment,
Speaker 1: which has to do with the notion of following your dreams. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to find that passion. You got to find
Speaker 1: that one thing, that perfect thing that's going to lead
Speaker 1: you to some professional ecstasy of some type. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: sounds so nice, right, If you just find your passion,
Speaker 1: then you'll totally succeed at what you do and be
Speaker 1: really happy for the rest of your life and rich. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not hard to do. The states aren't that high.
Speaker 1: It's it's so unreasonable. It just it's assumes that everybody
Speaker 1: has a singular passion and that you know, all you
Speaker 1: have to do is summon up the will to pursue it.
Speaker 1: It ignores all of the practical aspects of life and
Speaker 1: the fact that for many people there is no one
Speaker 1: thing they want to do. They might like a few
Speaker 1: things to do. Yeah, So then I guess it becomes
Speaker 1: even scarier because it's like, if I don't have this passion,
Speaker 1: but I know that I'm not exactly happy in what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, then how would I make any sort of change, right,
Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of damned if you do, damned
Speaker 1: if you don't. And so it just sets everybody up
Speaker 1: to fail. And I think what we have to do
Speaker 1: to some degree is kind of lower our standards just
Speaker 1: a little bit, just you know, enough to kind of say,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm not looking for the perfect thing, I'm
Speaker 1: looking for something that is better than what I have.
Speaker 1: I still think that that sounds great, but that it's
Speaker 1: still really scary even with lowered standards to be like, well,
Speaker 1: where do I even start, right? How do I find
Speaker 1: those like less than passions? Many passions passionates, yeah, passionates
Speaker 1: to kind of figure out where to steer my career
Speaker 1: or my life in a happier in direction. As we've said,
Speaker 1: we have absolutely no experience. I have no idea, which
Speaker 1: is why we're bringing someone in now who can speak
Speaker 1: to this. Francesca Hogi was on a perfectly successful career
Speaker 1: track after attending law school. She was working at a
Speaker 1: high powered law firm, but eventually fell out of love
Speaker 1: with the profession, and like a lot of us, she
Speaker 1: really had no idea what she wanted to do next. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: she wound up being a dating coach and matchmaker, a
Speaker 1: job that if you had told her about it a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, she wouldn't even believe existed. We're
Speaker 1: here with her today to learn about her unlikely roadmap
Speaker 1: to career satisfaction. Francisca, thanks for joining us. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having you. Sam. So, I think before we get
Speaker 1: to how you got to where you are today, it
Speaker 1: might be good to know how you decided to be
Speaker 1: a lawyer in the first place, since that was your
Speaker 1: first career year after school. So what led you to
Speaker 1: be a lawyer? Was that a dream or stability or what? Yes,
Speaker 1: so being a lawyer was not a dream like many
Speaker 1: people who go to law school. I went to law
Speaker 1: school because people told me you can do anything with
Speaker 1: a law degree. It's a great degree to have, and
Speaker 1: that's true. However, I don't recommend going to law school
Speaker 1: unless you actually went to practice law, which I really
Speaker 1: didn't want to do. But I went to law school
Speaker 1: because it was a practical thing to do. And um,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of people telling me I was
Speaker 1: smart and I should go to grad school. And honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm bad at math and there's no math on the
Speaker 1: l s at so right with a legal education, as
Speaker 1: you said, some people get the law degree actually never
Speaker 1: even take the bar, never practice law. You did, though,
Speaker 1: I did. Yes, why did you decide to kind of
Speaker 1: follow that perhaps rather traditional path. I followed that traditional
Speaker 1: path because it was honestly the easiest one. I had
Speaker 1: a lot of loans. I was very young, and someone
Speaker 1: was going to pay me six figures and I said, okay,
Speaker 1: well I don't know what else to do, so I'll
Speaker 1: do that for a while. So that's how I ended
Speaker 1: up being a corporate lawyer. Long were you doing that for?
Speaker 1: I did that for four years. So I worked at
Speaker 1: a big firm here in New York, and um, it
Speaker 1: actually wasn't terrible. I mean considering I had a really
Speaker 1: good situation at my firm because I had a partner
Speaker 1: who mentored me, so I actually had a lot of support,
Speaker 1: unlike a lot of young associates. However, when I looked
Speaker 1: at when I looked at that partner and the other partners,
Speaker 1: I looked at their lives and their lifestyles, and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I don't mind working hard, but
Speaker 1: I don't want their lives like I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: so why would I stay in this career when quote
Speaker 1: unquote success in this career something that I don't want.
Speaker 1: You're getting into something I was just about to ask you,
Speaker 1: which is was there a point during your initial legal
Speaker 1: career where you actually did feel like, Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: the job for me. I'm going to stick with this.
Speaker 1: I'm very happy where I am, or was it always
Speaker 1: a question. I think I'm a person who I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of jobs. You know, I've been working since
Speaker 1: I was twelve years old and I started my babysitting empire.
Speaker 1: I had a real babysitting I made a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It's a babysitter um, and I really haven't stopped since.
Speaker 1: And I think that there are a lot of interesting
Speaker 1: things about being a lawyer. I never felt like, oh,
Speaker 1: I found the thing for me, but there were aspects
Speaker 1: of my job that I did enjoy, and so I
Speaker 1: tried to focus on those things. But I always knew
Speaker 1: that there was something more that I wanted to do
Speaker 1: in life. I just didn't know what it was. I
Speaker 1: think it's interesting because I a lot of people feel
Speaker 1: that way about their jobs, like it's interesting enough, but
Speaker 1: I know I don't want to do it. But then
Speaker 1: most people, I think, just stick with it because of
Speaker 1: inertia and because it's really scary. It is, and it was.
Speaker 1: It was scary to leave my law firm, and I
Speaker 1: had to make a lot of sacrifices and I had
Speaker 1: to change my entire lifestyle, and um, that was not
Speaker 1: something that a lot of people are willing to do.
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of people who are like, really,
Speaker 1: why you're quitting this job to run off and start
Speaker 1: a film production company, and how are you going to
Speaker 1: make money? And how you're going to support yourself? And
Speaker 1: I was just like, I have to figure it out.
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out, because to me, it was not
Speaker 1: the security was not worth sacrificing this desire. I had
Speaker 1: to me to do something else. So I just knew
Speaker 1: I had to try. When you did leave your law firm,
Speaker 1: how did you support yourself? So I left with notice,
Speaker 1: So I didn't, you know, I didn't. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: I came in. Was like I quit, So I I
Speaker 1: saved money. Once I made the decision to leave my firm,
Speaker 1: I moved out of my one bedroom apartment and on
Speaker 1: the Upper West Side and moved back home. And you know,
Speaker 1: so I didn't have rent to pay, and I saved money,
Speaker 1: so I had some cushion. And then once I was
Speaker 1: working in film, I started taking a lot of little
Speaker 1: production jobs to help support myself. So I did wardrobe,
Speaker 1: and I did casting, and I worked on music videos.
Speaker 1: I mean, I had a lot of random production jobs.
Speaker 1: I mean I was really like like when I say
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of jobs, I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of jobs. I've done a lot of different things. I
Speaker 1: did you choose film? Was was that a passion for
Speaker 1: you or or what made you go there? So I've
Speaker 1: always loved film. I actually my undergrad degrees and TV
Speaker 1: and film production, so it wasn't completely out of left field.
Speaker 1: You worked in film for how long? So we started,
Speaker 1: and I say we, I had a I had a
Speaker 1: partner in my production company. We started our production company
Speaker 1: in two thousand four. Um. I actually started producing some
Speaker 1: short films while I was still at my law firm.
Speaker 1: So I started doing a little you know, side hustle.
Speaker 1: UM and then we so we had it for about
Speaker 1: five years before we wrapped it up. And tell me
Speaker 1: a little bit about the wrap up. Why did that
Speaker 1: happen and how did you feel when it did? So?
Speaker 1: The reason that we wrapped up is because it's extremely
Speaker 1: difficult to be an independent producer in Hollywood. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think I went into it very idealistically and feeling like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to make these great movies and
Speaker 1: everyone's going to love them, and as long as you
Speaker 1: work hard, you can make it happy in and it's
Speaker 1: not really the case in that industry. There's so many
Speaker 1: considerations and there are a lot of challenges. UM. One
Speaker 1: thing that was really pivotal is UM two friends of
Speaker 1: mine who were also independent producers, and we were in
Speaker 1: that whole hustle in l A together for years. They
Speaker 1: were like the hardest working, most connected hustlers I knew.
Speaker 1: And they had so many projects that they were setting
Speaker 1: up at studios and making no money, because you make
Speaker 1: no money when you set up a project at a studio.
Speaker 1: It sounds impressive, but you don't actually make anything. Are
Speaker 1: you making very very little? And they were, you know,
Speaker 1: they were really struggling and nothing was getting made. And
Speaker 1: I looked at them and I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: if these two aren't getting their projects made, then I'm
Speaker 1: not going to get mine made. And I love movies
Speaker 1: and I love film but I don't. I don't need
Speaker 1: to make them. So actually because of them looking at them,
Speaker 1: that was why I decided to quit. And side note,
Speaker 1: they won an Oscar this year for Spotlight. I've heard
Speaker 1: of them. Yes, that's very good movie. So it was
Speaker 1: kind of like your heart was in it, but not
Speaker 1: enough to be just working for the love of the work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And because I you know, I was like, like I said,
Speaker 1: I was doing all these different odd jobs to support
Speaker 1: myself and it was just this constant hustle and I
Speaker 1: just didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1: And so I just I knew that I had to
Speaker 1: pivot and find something else to do. And so that's
Speaker 1: how I got sucked back into the law. Yeah, tell
Speaker 1: us about that. How that decision must have been kind
Speaker 1: of hard. It was. I mean, I definitely felt a
Speaker 1: little bit like I had failed. You know, it was
Speaker 1: not easy to say, like to say everyone, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be this big movie producer and then be like,
Speaker 1: actually I'm gonna go back and be a lawyer and
Speaker 1: send at a desk all day. But you know, that
Speaker 1: was challenging. But you know what, we are our own
Speaker 1: worst critics and self compassion is a really important skill,
Speaker 1: and I I just knew that I needed to buy
Speaker 1: myself some time and um, and that's how I kind
Speaker 1: of allowed myself to take some weird deeptours because I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm working as a lawyer again, and
Speaker 1: I really don't see myself as a lawyer, and I
Speaker 1: know I want to do something else, but I just
Speaker 1: don't know what that is. And um, that's how I
Speaker 1: ended up on Survivor. I want to say that it's
Speaker 1: encouraging to hear you say that you went back to law,
Speaker 1: because I think one big scary part of leaving your
Speaker 1: first career is this idea that once you're off that track,
Speaker 1: it's impossible to get back on. And I think people
Speaker 1: put so much pressure on themselves about that, and just
Speaker 1: there's so much fear that keeps us stuck because we're like, well,
Speaker 1: if I give this up, then then what then I'll
Speaker 1: never get it back. And it's like, you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: if you're resourceful and you're hard working, and you know
Speaker 1: you're willing to just be honest with yourself and with
Speaker 1: other people and say, yeah, I was doing something else
Speaker 1: for a while, and now I'd like to do this again.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was not as challenging as you would
Speaker 1: think to pivot back into my previous career. Having that
Speaker 1: roadmap can sometimes be very sort of useful in therapeutic even,
Speaker 1: like to your point, if you can't get out of
Speaker 1: the career that you're currently in, it a way, even
Speaker 1: having the ability to plan a way out. It might
Speaker 1: not pay off for a year or two years, but
Speaker 1: knowing that you are progressing and taking some sort of
Speaker 1: agency and action can make you suddenly feel a lot
Speaker 1: better because you know that you're actually doing something. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I think that that's important for people to remember,
Speaker 1: because you know, we do have this conversation around passion
Speaker 1: and following your passion and in our culture, and that
Speaker 1: puts a lot of pressure on people to feel like
Speaker 1: I've got to quit my job, burn that bridge, go
Speaker 1: follow my heart and then I'll be a billionaire. And
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it doesn't work that way of
Speaker 1: most of the time, and that's okay. And you can
Speaker 1: create a plan and you can buide your time, and
Speaker 1: you can start side projects, you know, like I did
Speaker 1: when I was when I was actually both times I
Speaker 1: transitioned out of law, I started my new career as
Speaker 1: while I was still working as a lawyer. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: so doing that, making a plan and just knowing like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have some patience here because this is
Speaker 1: my life and it doesn't have to happen overnight. UM.
Speaker 1: That's really important. Up happens when the power and potential
Speaker 1: of every employee and leader in your workforce is released,
Speaker 1: and corn Fairy can get you there by aligning your
Speaker 1: people to your strategy, attracting, developing, engaging, and rewarding them
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Speaker 1: So I want to go back to Survivor um and
Speaker 1: you being on it um. So you're back at your
Speaker 1: back in your lodge job and you're again trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what to do. Yes, so you go on Survivor.
Speaker 1: So right before I went back to the law, I
Speaker 1: are you familiar with the show The Amazing Race? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I love that show and I love to travel,
Speaker 1: And I was like, I used to watch that show
Speaker 1: and be like, oh my god, I would win this show.
Speaker 1: I had this dream of being on the Amazing Race,
Speaker 1: and so I had applied to be on the Amazing
Speaker 1: Race and my partner and I, um, you know, we
Speaker 1: made it really far through casting, like we got our vaccinations,
Speaker 1: like we got our visas and everything, and then at
Speaker 1: the last minute they cut us and I was totally devastated. Um.
Speaker 1: And then a year later I got a call like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to come to l A and maybe Beyond Survivor.
Speaker 1: And my original answer was no, because that looks really miserable.
Speaker 1: But then I thought, well, you know what, this opportunity
Speaker 1: is presenting itself for a reason, and you know a
Speaker 1: lot of people would kill for this opportunity, so I
Speaker 1: should do it. And I went into it thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: I know how television works. I know that you know,
Speaker 1: I'm probably not even I can just say yes to
Speaker 1: the possibility because I'm not going to get cast, like
Speaker 1: you know, I don't care enough, like it's not going
Speaker 1: to happen. And then of course it happened, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh crap, I actually have to go to
Speaker 1: on Survivor. Now, yeah, that does sound really scary to
Speaker 1: be on Survivor sounds scarier than quitting my job. So then,
Speaker 1: how how did you figure out what to do after
Speaker 1: after your second low stent. So after my first season
Speaker 1: of Survivor, went back to my job. My job was
Speaker 1: very understanding about letting me take time, and then I
Speaker 1: got invited to come back for a second season. And
Speaker 1: my first season was a disaster, like I am not
Speaker 1: good at Survivor so and so I thought, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: it can't be any worse the second time, like, let
Speaker 1: me do this again, and I did and it was
Speaker 1: a disaster again. And so after that I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I've gone on Survivor twice, I've had the same
Speaker 1: experience twice, and I'm going back to the same job again,
Speaker 1: like now, like this is it. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that had me really stuck for a long time
Speaker 1: was this whole question about passion. And I felt like
Speaker 1: I'd already pursued a passion by going into film, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what my passion was. And you know,
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why I think this whole
Speaker 1: conversation that we have and our culture around passion is
Speaker 1: so harmful. It's like, if you had one burning passion,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't know it right. And so most people don't
Speaker 1: have one burning passion. And it's one thing like if
Speaker 1: you have a passion but you're suppressing it or you
Speaker 1: don't think it's practical. But for most of us, it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have lots of things I'm interested in.
Speaker 1: And I definitely spent a long time thinking like maybe
Speaker 1: film was my passion and I blew it and now
Speaker 1: I'm a failure and now I'll never have a job
Speaker 1: that I love and um, you know, I got stuck
Speaker 1: in that thinking for a few years. So the great
Speaker 1: thing about Survivor, like I said, after my second season,
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, you know what, I don't care.
Speaker 1: I'm going to figure something else out. Um. And that
Speaker 1: was when I discover that matchmaking was a real profession
Speaker 1: that like real people did. Um. And I liked meddling
Speaker 1: in people's love lives and I always had and and
Speaker 1: I actually had a dating advice blog back when I
Speaker 1: was a lawyer, just as a fun side project, which
Speaker 1: you know, at the time I had. They didn't provide
Speaker 1: any clue to me, like, oh, there might be something
Speaker 1: here that you like, you could pursue because you know,
Speaker 1: what would you if you don't know about this industry, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like I'll just go get a
Speaker 1: job in dating. So, um, when I discovered that matchmaking
Speaker 1: was a real profession, and I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: this is something I think I could do and be
Speaker 1: good at and enjoy doing, and so I went for it. Wait,
Speaker 1: how did you discover that matchmaking was a real profession
Speaker 1: from watching Millionaire Matchmaker? It was in flight magazines where
Speaker 1: the ads in the back of do have those ads?
Speaker 1: And it was no, it was not from either of
Speaker 1: those sources. Um, it was actually very just serendipitously. I
Speaker 1: met a woman, was having a conversation with her at
Speaker 1: a Fourth of July barbecue and she was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's this black male matchmaker I follow on Twitter. And
Speaker 1: I was like, there's a black mail matchmaker, Like who
Speaker 1: is he? And his name is Paul Brunson and I
Speaker 1: was like, I want to follow him on Twitter and
Speaker 1: I did. And he has an m b A and
Speaker 1: he had a finance career and he left that to
Speaker 1: go start his matchmaking agency. And I was just like reading,
Speaker 1: you know, his articles and watching his videos and I
Speaker 1: was like, this guy like really has it together, and
Speaker 1: I kind of saw myself in him and basically just
Speaker 1: made him become my friend on Twitter. And and you know,
Speaker 1: at one point he tweeted that he was going to
Speaker 1: be speaking at the Matchmaking Institute's annual conference, and I
Speaker 1: was like, that's a great conference. Yeah, And I was like,
Speaker 1: there's a Matchmaking Institute, sign me up and they have
Speaker 1: a conference, like what you know. It totally blew my
Speaker 1: mind and I was like, and I tweeted, I was
Speaker 1: like I want to go, and he's like you should come,
Speaker 1: and I'm like I will. And I went to that
Speaker 1: conference and it totally changed my life. There really is
Speaker 1: you know, Francesco, what I like about your sort of philosophy,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a practical idealism, and I think that
Speaker 1: it's a voice that should be heard more often than
Speaker 1: the what I think of is the more dominant voice,
Speaker 1: which you've already referred to, which is, you know, you
Speaker 1: gotta follow your dreams, man, you gotta find your your
Speaker 1: one thing. It puts so much weight on that one thing.
Speaker 1: And to your point, I think many people probably would
Speaker 1: like doing a few different things. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: I just think it's great that you're able to kind
Speaker 1: of identify that and not it keeps you moving, you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It doesn't mean that a setback is a catastrophe. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you're able to kind of bounce back and move on
Speaker 1: to the next thing. Yeah. People just need to try
Speaker 1: things out and not that you want to, you know,
Speaker 1: be like I'm going to start a new business every year.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe you will, but um, but just at
Speaker 1: least I mean when people say to me like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just don't know and I think I'm interested in this,
Speaker 1: I'm like take a class, like, just go online, watch
Speaker 1: YouTube videos, like read a book, like you just see
Speaker 1: where that interest leads you. And you know, it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be like, you know, you have a six
Speaker 1: figure salary today and doesn't mean that you're going to
Speaker 1: quit and have that you know next week if you
Speaker 1: you know, follow a new interest, but you could still
Speaker 1: get there and um, you know, if that's what you
Speaker 1: want or you know, if that's one of your concerns,
Speaker 1: but just at least explore what interests you and just
Speaker 1: be open to the serendipity that happens when you are
Speaker 1: open to new experiences and has well. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming and talking to us. I think that
Speaker 1: that was really interesting than you encouraging. You don't have
Speaker 1: to have a passion and you just to quench your
Speaker 1: job necessarily you feel stuck, but you might become a matchmaker.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming. Thank you guys for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I find Francesca rather inspiring. She's pretty fearless about it all,
Speaker 1: and she seems to have a pretty good head on
Speaker 1: her shoulders. Yeah, I still think not everybody could do
Speaker 1: what she does from a financial perspective, but also would
Speaker 1: want to. It's still scary, like it's still too much
Speaker 1: of a risk to kind of jump into things you're
Speaker 1: not really sure about. But it was really encouraging to
Speaker 1: hear her say that she didn't know at all what
Speaker 1: she wanted to do the second time when she was
Speaker 1: in law, and then just talking to somebody realized that
Speaker 1: there was this profession that seemed interesting to her, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's definitely part of the scary part for me.
Speaker 1: It's like, I think the only professions I know are
Speaker 1: like doctor, lawyer, pr person, teacher, but there are like
Speaker 1: all these other things people do. You're like pulling from
Speaker 1: like a modern day Richard Scary book, What do people
Speaker 1: do all day? I think you're right. I think that she,
Speaker 1: in the case of her latest incarnation, with matchmaking and
Speaker 1: coaching for dating and so forth, it's sort of found
Speaker 1: an opportunity that otherwise would have eluded her. But that's
Speaker 1: part of it. You have to just kind of put
Speaker 1: yourself out there. You have to be open to like
Speaker 1: new ideas, new people. It's not easy. It's in its
Speaker 1: own way, it's sort of its own job. But that's
Speaker 1: the kind of task you have to take on if
Speaker 1: you're thinking about switching. And if there's one thing that
Speaker 1: I think we all should learn is that follow your
Speaker 1: passion is dumb. Follow your passion is an illusion. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's just something to keep people down. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: she followed her passion right, and that didn't work out
Speaker 1: unless she's sign actually semi serious about the keeping people
Speaker 1: down thing. I think it's like, you know, you established
Speaker 1: unreal to stick goals so that everybody recognizes them as
Speaker 1: unrealistic and then feels like, well, I guess I should
Speaker 1: just stay here. Yeah, all right, and now it's time
Speaker 1: for half baked takes half fake takes. These are some
Speaker 1: thoughts that Becca and I have had over the last
Speaker 1: week or so, little observations, things that we like to, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, talk about when we're not actually doing the show.
Speaker 1: But we're going to share them with you right now.
Speaker 1: So Becca, I'm going to start with you. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do too, because I think that I am always
Speaker 1: negative and I want the girl to know that I
Speaker 1: like things, but I'm going to start with a negative one.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Okay, bear with me, audience. You know when
Speaker 1: you go to Whole Foods and you fill up those
Speaker 1: brown cardboard boxes with the Whole Food salad bar, or
Speaker 1: they use the same boxes at like an overpriced place
Speaker 1: that might have like a kale salad or you know
Speaker 1: your favorite like sandwich eatery or I think you can
Speaker 1: also put ribs in there. Totally ribs in there. Those
Speaker 1: boxes are horrible and they're so hard to use. The
Speaker 1: flaps just get in your way. I hate them. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about? This podcast segment of
Speaker 1: Andy Rooney Press. Okay, I know I'm like her imogeny,
Speaker 1: but I learned because I did a little research. It's
Speaker 1: the same company that makes Chinese food containers makes these boxes,
Speaker 1: and they're like, they're great for the environment, they're compostable.
Speaker 1: But the reason that they're so annoying is that they're
Speaker 1: made out of one piece of paper so that there
Speaker 1: are no seams so they don't leak, so for functionality,
Speaker 1: but then like ironically it negates the functionality of the
Speaker 1: box because they're so hard to eat out of because
Speaker 1: the flaps just like get in the way of your hands.
Speaker 1: I'm very sorry for you. Anyway, that's my negative. Have
Speaker 1: big take that implies you have a positive. You did
Speaker 1: a recommendation once and so you inspired me, and so
Speaker 1: I'm going to recommend my new podcast obsession. It's called
Speaker 1: Bad with Money. It's by this woman Gabby Dunn, who
Speaker 1: is really bad with money, and she just has a
Speaker 1: really it's like kind of a personal diary of her
Speaker 1: life trying to be better at money, and she talks
Speaker 1: to different people about different aspects of money. And I
Speaker 1: just really like it. That's awesome, So I like things.
Speaker 1: Look at that anyway. Stuff anyway, what you got, I
Speaker 1: have a tip something that I think makes a big difference.
Speaker 1: It's a small little thing. If you work at home,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody has their ritual about sort of getting
Speaker 1: into work mode when they work at home, because it's
Speaker 1: very easy to sort of stay in your pajamas and
Speaker 1: just sit in your bed and do whatever you have
Speaker 1: to do. Obviously, you should get up, you should shower,
Speaker 1: you should put your clothes on. But here's the other
Speaker 1: thing you should do. Put your shoes on. I know
Speaker 1: it sounds strange, but there's something about having shoes on that,
Speaker 1: to me, really feels like you're at work. If you're
Speaker 1: only in your socks, you're still at home. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: love this one, and I was thinking about it the
Speaker 1: other day when I was working from home because I
Speaker 1: put my slippers on. Okay, It's like, this is not
Speaker 1: what Sam means, and I definitely don't feel like I'm
Speaker 1: at work and I need to put my shoes on. Right,
Speaker 1: If you want to be productive, put your shoes on.
Speaker 1: I love that. And this has been half baked takes,
Speaker 1: half baked takes. Thanks for listening. My name is Sam Grobart.
Speaker 1: If you want to find me on Twitter, you can
Speaker 1: find me at Sam Grobart and I'm at RZ Greenfield
Speaker 1: and our guest today, Francisco Hogi is at Dear Franny.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. See you next week, get the most
Speaker 1: from your people and send your business soaring with corn Ferry.
Speaker 1: From executive search to talent strategy, leadership development, rewards and
Speaker 1: succession planning. Corn Ferry knows up is more than a direction.
Speaker 1: It's your few Sure. Learn more at corn ferry dot
Speaker 1: com slash up. Alright, Okay, you can lead because we
Speaker 1: decided you're going to do that. Okay ginger Um, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm you aren't that old either, right. That transcends our
Speaker 1: age gap. That's um right, so um we were saying, yes,
Speaker 1: okay um. I have been in the same career since ever.
Speaker 1: I've always worked in