1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: what is this thing that you have constructed on your 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: side of the desk? Um, it's I guess it's kind 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: of a note holder, and it's it's a made out 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: of some sort of box that I found, and it's 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: got paper clips that apparently aren't doing anything, but it 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: is serving a purpose and a clothes pin apparently. Oh 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: that's right. Well, I don't know where you got a 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: clothes pin in the office, but well, some of us 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: like to save energy. You are laundry here and floor balcony, 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: we get a lot of wind out there. Yeah exactly, Yeah. 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: I Um, I engaged in a bit of this is 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: of course tool use that you're engaging in here, yes, 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: and uh and I actually engaged in a little bit 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: of this during our recent um great freeze that hit 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: Atlanta Seddon Snowmageddon as some people call it. And uh, 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: the situation was that we kept making hot tea because 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: that was all we could basically, you know, it's just like, 21 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: let's just what are we gonna do? Now, let's make 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: hot tea? What we're gonna do? Now, let's play scrabble 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: and let's make hot tea. And that was like, you know, 24 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: four days of being trapped inside doing that, and our 25 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: T ball was like the chain was broken on it. 26 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: So ended up like constructing something where I took like 27 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: the T ball and then I used some like some 28 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: like butcher twine. Is a book called butter twine, Yes, yes, 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: and uh, and like I used that to attach it 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: to to like a metal skewer and uh and created 31 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: a system of being of moving the T ball in 32 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: and out of the the boiling kettle. So um wow, 33 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: So I have to ask you, did you make so 34 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: much tea that you guys broke it and then you 35 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: needed to resort to tool using behavior. Yes, so you 36 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: found out a little something about yourself during Snowmageddon. Yeah, 37 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: I think I think I did. And it's it's interesting 38 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: as we get into this and we start talking about 39 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: tool use in the animal kingdom, you do see that 40 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: captivity and uh, and we'll often bring out, um, the 41 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: more innovative side of many animals. An animal that is 42 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: not necessarily a tool user may become one in captivity. 43 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: Uh well, and one that is capable of only say, 44 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: like a very low level tool use is sometimes capable 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: of higher level tool use if they're locked in a zoo. Okay, 46 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: so boredom is the mother of invention, is what I'm hearing. Yes, 47 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: also the mother of of injury. But but, but but 48 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: luckily nothing went wrong with the the the t H 49 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: ball invention that I came up with. So let's um, 50 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: let's talk about tool use then. Yeah? Okay, so I 51 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: guess we we normally think about tool use uh in primates, 52 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: right and goodall witnessing a single blade of grass being 53 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: stuck down into a termite mound and then a lovely 54 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: snack emerging. Yeah, or just like you know, two thousand 55 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: and one to Space Odyssey, monkeys picking up bones beating 56 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: other monkeys on the head because weapons are ultimately ultimately tools, 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: right right, But I think that we we we don't 58 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: necessarily look to other animals and think, oh, well, I 59 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: bet that they're an extraordinary tool user, right, But in 60 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: fact they are. And my favorite example is the octopus. Actually, 61 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, this one is is really cool? Now, 62 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: this is uh an octopus? As we all know, does 63 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: not have a a shell. There are various cephalopots that do. 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: But the octopus depends on other methods of survival camouflage, 65 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: of shape changing basically and uh and and being able 66 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: to sort of creeper around and not draw a lout 67 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: of attention to itself. Yeah. But what do you do 68 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: if you've got across the sea floor and there's nothing 69 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: to camouflage yourself against and I don't know, you've got 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: another mile to go. Well, you could, I guess you could. 71 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: If you could evolve, you could slowly develop some sort 72 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: of a protective coating through uh, you know, through you know, 73 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: one dead octopus after another dead octopus, until um, you 74 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: end up you know, selecting that octopus that has a 75 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: harder shell. Right, Yeah, yeah, I guess you could. Or 76 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: in the short term, if you lived in Indonesia and 77 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: you are an octopus and you saw a coconut on 78 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: the bottom of the sea floor, you could take the 79 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: two halves of it and you could crawl into it 80 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: when you needed to and reassemble it. And no one 81 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: would be the wiser, right, They'd be like, oh gosh, 82 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: that that's not prey, that's just a stupid coconut, and 83 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that octopus is like, you 84 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: know what this this is something that I can obscure 85 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: myself in nobody's gonna know, and now I can resume 86 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: my journey. Wow, that's really incredible. It's um and and 87 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: and and it just goes to show that, I mean, 88 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: all tool use really kind of close us into something 89 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: to some serious cognition going on. Yeah, and an octopier 90 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: pretty smart. As one of the reasons I me personally, 91 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: I can't really eat them uh in sushi anymore. I 92 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: just you know, I hear they're as smart as cats, 93 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, from various things. And then I look at 94 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: my cat and I'm like, I wouldn't needt my cat 95 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: on a californ in your role or yeah, if I 96 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: did eat seafood, I have to say, just just the 97 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: look of them, I don't know, it just seems it 98 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: seems like a frightening proposition to have that in my mouth. 99 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: But what I what I think is so cool too 100 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: about this coke in that example is it totally reminded 101 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: me of this invention. It's in Japan and have you 102 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: ever seen this? It's this fold up coke machine. Okay, well, 103 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: it's but I do really want to do an episode 104 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: about amazing vending machines sometimes, so do all right, Okay, 105 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: there's actually there's plenty of them, listeners. I think you 106 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: wink wink, I think you might know we're talking about here. 107 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: But this I love the idea of this, but it's 108 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: super silly. I mean, it's flat packed, looks like a 109 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: coke machine. When you unpack it, you hip yourself in 110 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: it and then lo and behold you look like a 111 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: plastic vending machine. So what happens when people put money 112 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: into you or reaching to you for snacks? You have 113 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: several choices in response. But I was thinking, you know 114 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: that the octopus is is actually much more clever than 115 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: us humans in trying to camouflage themselves on the streets, 116 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: so to speak. Well, that's awesome. It's um, we're researching 117 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: about this and a lot of tool use um. When 118 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: it comes to you know, the brain comes down to 119 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: something uh that we call body scheme schema schema. Yeah, 120 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: and uh and this is uh, this idea has been 121 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: around for about a hundred years and it's and it's 122 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: the idea that our brains are just constantly processing visual 123 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: tactile feedback about what our bodies are doing and how 124 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: they're positioned, and you you create these different sort of 125 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves, you know. So like I like to 126 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,559 Speaker 1: think of it in terms of like martial arts movies, 127 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: where like somebody goes into say like drunken monkey stance 128 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: or or tiger stance, you know. But but we have 129 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: but as tool users, we have a well as humans, 130 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: we would have other stances like oh my goodness, don't 131 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: hit me in the face of that ball stance or 132 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: um or I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna chase the 133 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: cat stands. That those you know, different body positions that 134 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: are aimed towards particular tasks. But when you're throw in 135 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: tools and you get all these differ different additional positions, 136 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: you get like grumpy snow shoveler stance or intense polentis 137 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: stir stands, toothbrusher stands. Don't forget rosota stands, the zota stands. 138 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: It's that the other one that involves a lot of stirring. Yeah, 139 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: I just know I'll be asked to stir something and 140 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: and then I just I lose all memory of what 141 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm stirring. It's so it takes so long, delicious when 142 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: it's done, but it's just it's quite quite an effort. 143 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: But but anyway, um, so our brains are constantly you know, working, 144 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: working this out, and it's it's it's definitely an instance 145 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: of these tools becoming an extension of our bodies. They're 146 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: a part of our body. Scam there, they become part 147 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: of who we are. You know, we were used to 148 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: hearing about this. One's like you hear people talking about 149 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: like swordsmanship or golf, you know, and you hear it's like, oh, 150 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: well you need to make the club an extension of 151 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: your arm. Yeah, be one with the sword or something, 152 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: you know. And that's exactly what's going on. Like the 153 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: more you're you're able to, the better you are using 154 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: a tool, the more the brain identifies it as a 155 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: part of yourself, right right. And actually they were us 156 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: on a study from the National Institute of Health on 157 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: tool use tasks for toddlers, and they were talking about 158 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: how toddlers um that we're using tools to act on themselves, 159 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: like feed themselves, for instance. We're picking up on that 160 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 1: and using that a lot more than externally. In other words, 161 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: like you know, feeding Elmo some keenoir or something. Um. 162 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: And so you do you see that that idea of 163 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: it being an extension of yourself right there in that example, 164 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: and that we automatically say, Okay, I'm a little toddler 165 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: brain and I'm trying to figure this out for myself, 166 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: and here's my spoon. Um. But you know, Elmo is 167 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: not going to get his food until much later. But 168 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: that brings me to this point. You know, we should 169 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: probably talk exactly about what tool use is. I mean, 170 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: you know, it seems pretty obvious, but it's really defined 171 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: as providing no benefit until they're used for a very 172 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: specific purpose. So with animals, what's really cool about that 173 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: is that it shows that the animal is capable of 174 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: pre planning, advanced planning. Yeah, it's not just an animal, say, 175 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: picking up a stick and beating random things with it. 176 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: It's there's no purpose to that. So's that's not tool used. Now, 177 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: something like that night develop into tool use in time. 178 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: But but yeah, there's got to be a purpose in mind. 179 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: That's right. We're saying a lot of cogitation going on. 180 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: Cogitation party, um, and they're actually um, I've read that 181 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: they're they're basically two types of tools. There is a 182 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: what is good. Well, first, there's something called an artifact, right, 183 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: An artifact is something that is crafted. For example, if 184 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: a chimp, you know, like I say, we're all using 185 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: like we used to seeing images of like a chimp 186 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: sticking a poking a stick down a termite hole and 187 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: coming up with termites to look off. Well, they've been 188 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: Chimps have been known to chew the termite fishing stick 189 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: so that it fits better into the holes. So they're 190 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: creating an artific fact. Now, if they had not used 191 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: their mouths to to alter it, they would have what 192 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: is sometimes called a nature fact, which is kind of 193 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: like just a found object tool like oh, here's a stick, 194 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: I'll pick it up, I'll get some bugs on it 195 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: and eat the bugs off the stick, but I haven't 196 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: changed the stick. And then when it comes to these 197 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: different artifacts, they're basically four levels. Uh. There is reduction 198 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: where you reduce the mass of a functional object, like 199 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: take the stick, choose something off of it, Now you 200 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: can use it. Then there's conjunction where you combine two 201 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: or more units to make a tool. An example of 202 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: this where it would be you take like looking at 203 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: early humans, Like you take a stone, sharpen it into something, 204 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: and then you attach it to a stick to make 205 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: a spear. Ghammo, you have a conjunction tool, and then 206 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: they're the third level replica replication. This would be where 207 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: it's conjunction but with two or more similar units. So 208 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: if you made a two headed spear, you know, you're, you're, you're. 209 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: You have two different, three different things going on there, 210 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: and then there's a linkage. And this is the most 211 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: more complicated form. And this is where you have physically 212 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: distinct forms used in combination. And that would be like 213 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: if you made a bow and you made an arrow. 214 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: Bow and arrow are both rather different, but together you 215 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: have a a single um tool that's very useful to 216 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: early hunters. Okay, actually that was making me think about elephants. Um. 217 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: I know that in South Africa, it was observed that 218 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: an elephant, after digging a hole and drinking water and 219 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: presumably expitting that water back in, stripped bark from a 220 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: nearby tree and then chewed it into a large ball, 221 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: so transforming it, and then plug the hole and covered 222 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: it with sand, So essentially that the elephant was making 223 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: m a canteen. Yeah, and then taking that that ball 224 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: out again and slurping it up again. So that's that's 225 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: something definitely the elephant transformed its environment in order to 226 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: create this kind of groovy canteen. Wow. And yeah, and 227 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: that's an elephant using like a level two artifact, right right. Um. 228 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier about you know, how captivity can change 229 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,359 Speaker 1: the level of tool use involved. We see that, um 230 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: with the Capucian monkeys. Um, if you've watched if you 231 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: watched Life, the awesome Discovery slash BBC show, there's you know, 232 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: great scenes in that and and various other documentaries that 233 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: show these these guys taking rocks and using them to 234 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: bust open nuts so they can eat the inside. And 235 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: they're very selective about their rocks, right, it's no no 236 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: rock will do right, and it takes them a while 237 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: to learn how to do it, like they're there are 238 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: also lots of cool you know, generally you see lots 239 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: of footage of the younger ones trying to do it 240 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: and just failing miserably, like picking the wrong stones, you know, 241 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: et cetera. But uh, but the cool thing is that 242 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: they can actually they've actually been seen a craft tools 243 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: and captivity instead of because the rock that they're beating 244 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: the nutwi is just that's a nature of fact, but 245 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: ends captivity. Sometimes they make artifacts. They've been seen to 246 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: sticking two pieces of straw together to make a longer 247 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: probe to reach things that are outside of the cage. 248 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: So so, so that's really cool. Again, you know, you captivity, boredom, invention, 249 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: creative mayhem, as in the case with actually again with 250 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: the octopive. I know there have been a couple of 251 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: different instances in captivity that they've done some stuff, And 252 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: one was at the Sona Santa Monica Pire Aquarium. There 253 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: was a female California two spotted octopus who swam to 254 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: the top of her tank, disassembled the valve with her arm, 255 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: and then released two hundred gallons of seawater into nearby 256 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: exhibits and offices. Yeah, so I mean that's pretty crazy. Yeah, 257 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: And then I understand the same octopus stole somebody's wallet, 258 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: um made a xerox of their their driver's license, and 259 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: was able to skip the entire state. Like I think 260 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: they're still living in Nevada. Yeah I heard that too, 261 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: but actually you say that, and it did make me think, like, 262 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: what's going on in the octopus mind there. I mean, 263 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: do you think that they're swimming around going, you know what? 264 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: I need to show all these other sea creatures who's 265 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: the boss here and what sort of force I have 266 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: and the power that I have in this aquarium. I'm 267 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: going to flood this place. O. Man, It's like a 268 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: like rock Stars trashing a hotel room. Yeah, totally, and 269 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: that's what I like. Pretty great. There was another one 270 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: UM who actually disassembled a robot. There was a Yeah, 271 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: there's this little robot puttering around the aquarium. I don't 272 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: know why they put it in there, but piece by 273 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: piece it was. That is awesome. Yeah. I've seen some 274 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: cool videos of polar bears um going and they have 275 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: these like ice flow robots. I posted on the Facebook 276 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: A want back. But they have like these little robots 277 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: that are disguised just like chunks of ice and they 278 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: either flowed or they sort of crawl around on the ice. 279 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: But polar bears, you know, there's not I guess there's 280 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: not a lot to do. They're curious animals. They'll see 281 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: this man end up just tearing it to pieces. Of 282 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: course they're like, what is this? I need to help 283 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: bear come into my realm and and I think it's 284 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: going to get away. That's right, I'll show you. Um. 285 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: But again, octopy really smart creatures obviously, And another really 286 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: cool thing about them is that they use their section 287 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: comps like pincers like we do. And they have so 288 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: many neurons actually firing in their arms and and neuron 289 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: neuron power. I guess you could say that they can 290 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: take every single one of those suckers and make them pincers, 291 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: which just really like blows our ability out of the 292 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: water there no pun intended. But a lot of this 293 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: is because these guys have like their ganglia is is 294 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: uh is, all grouped together, whereas with the molluskin nervous 295 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: system in other creatures like clams, for instance, they're all 296 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: over the place. They're widely dispersed. But you don't see 297 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: clams using a lot of tools. No, no, they don't. Sorry, 298 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: they might have a lovely pearl, but that's about it. Um. 299 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: But that's the cool thing about the octopia that they 300 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: do have this group of ganglia so to speak, and 301 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: that gives them the edge over other cephalodes I suppose. Now, 302 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: another interesting critter in the ocean that's been known to 303 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: use tools, as of course the dolphin, which comes as 304 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: less a surprise because everybody's on the you know, especially 305 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: thanks to John c. Lily. I was about to say, like, like, 306 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: I have to have to say like this again to 307 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: to to remind people who may or may not have 308 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: heard the podcast that we did on the Strange Life 309 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: Lives of Scientists. Uh. John cy Lily worked extensively with dolphins, 310 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: and what we know is that dolphins can actually court 311 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: other humans given the right circumstances. Yeah. He uh, I 312 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: mean he's he's one of them. You really have to 313 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: trace the whole dolphin mania and our in a lot 314 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: of our cultural respect for dolphins back to this guy, 315 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: though he definitely had some made some very questionable choices 316 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: in his research. Um. But but yeah, so to today, 317 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: to you know, the post Flipper era, it comes as 318 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: no surprise that, yeah, dolphins can use tools. Yeah, of 319 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: course they can court us. That can flash us, you know, 320 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: the flashes of the oceans. Um. But the tool that 321 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: they use is really cool yeah sponges right, yeah, which 322 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: they used to stir the ocean bottom sand uh, to 323 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: uncover and disorient prey. Yeah. And the really cool thing 324 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: about this is that researchers have found that it's a 325 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: hunting technique that originated in a single female and has 326 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: passed from mother to daughter. Yeah, And what they did 327 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: is they analyze the mitochondrial DNA, which is the DNA 328 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: passed down by females, and they found that that the 329 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: thirteen spongers and one d seventy two non spongers. They 330 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: found the trait appeared to be passed on mostly within 331 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: a single family line and from mother to daughter, and 332 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: that sponging most likely originated in a recent ancestor. So 333 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: this is sort of a new thing for them. Um, 334 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: And they say, well, okay, why what about the males 335 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: have coming? This isn't happening with them. And apparently they 336 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: hypothesized that male bottlenose dolphins tend to form close bonds 337 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: with other males and so those alliances aren't really seated 338 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: to seabed foraging since it's time consuming and it's a 339 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: solitary activity. I don't That seems kind a weak sauce 340 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: to me in terms of a theory, but well, it 341 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: reminds me a little bit of the the the cheetahs 342 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: that bring down ostriches and uh that it's covered in 343 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: one of the episodes of life where uh, since it's 344 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: only only the males doing it, Uh, it's not getting 345 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: passed on because the male cheatahs are not involved in 346 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: uh in rearing and and and raising of yawns. So 347 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: so yeah, it's interesting to think. It's like it's one 348 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: thing to develop to be able to to to develop 349 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: tool use, but you've got to be able to pass 350 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: it on. It's got to you know, because I guess 351 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: conceive what you could have have an animal out there 352 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: that that learns to use a tool, But is it 353 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: is it using it a is it using it a lot? 354 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: And be is it taking that and passing it on 355 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: to the next generation to where it becomes like standard practice, 356 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: right like you seem like you do. Another example of 357 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: being in captivity is I remember working at the zoo 358 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: um and finding out that the orangutans there were uh 359 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: trying to get out of the enclosure. Of course, as 360 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: they all tried to all the primates do, and the 361 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: first generation would just get electrocuted from the wire right, 362 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: And they did that, I don't know, maybe like five times, 363 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: and they said, okay, I'm gonna stop. The second generation. Uh, 364 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 1: they actually taught them like the wires hot be careful 365 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: and started, and so they started to try to build 366 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: things to get over the fence, and they were unsuccessful. 367 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: And then the third generation again looked at all of 368 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: this going on and realized that they could actually like 369 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: short the wire by jumping on the I guess like 370 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: a tree, I can't remember exactly what it was, and 371 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: so they could then escape the enclosure that way. So 372 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: there you go. Yeah, there's a there's a there's a 373 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: really interesting recent radio Lab episode that dealt would a 374 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: again with the orangutanks trying to escape their their enclosure. 375 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: And this one involved like an orangutank that was apparently 376 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: using a little piece of metal to pick a lock. 377 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's incredible what the higher primates can 378 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: it up to. Other examples from the Animal Kingdom, you 379 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: have gorillas that's sometimes use walking sticks. Then they'll use 380 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: them to test the depth of water to keep their 381 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: balance as they cross, which is really cool looking and 382 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: I've seen that before. If you go to YouTube you 383 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: can probably find it, especially when they take it and 384 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: they shake it at the younger gorillas and tell them 385 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: to to get off their lawn. Um, you have a 386 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: chimpanzees using clubs. There was another interesting recent case where 387 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: a chimpanzee to zoo was like stockpiling rocks to throw 388 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: because it was old and grumpy, apparently to throw at 389 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: the zoo visitors. I can advance planning, right, I mean, 390 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: if you're going to use as a projectile, Yeah, there's 391 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: some thought that needs to go in there, poor zoo goers. Um. 392 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: And of course we mentioned chimps foraging um and uh 393 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: and and also a macaques using rocks to bust open nuts. Um. 394 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: Some more interesting examples, This was one I had never 395 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: heard of before, but up naked mole rats crafting masks. 396 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: And first of all, I love naked mole rats, Like 397 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: they're just an amazing animal. If you get to see 398 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: some of the zoo, definitely see them because they're like 399 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: they're living in like a hive environment. There's they're naked, 400 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: they're funny looking, they walk backwards, they there's just they're 401 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: just a complete wind as far as as the animals go. 402 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: But so but they have these powerful protruding teeth that 403 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: they used to burrow, and their lips are on the 404 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: inside like behind their teeth and all. Um. Yeah, yeah, 405 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: they're they're really crazy looking. And and and since they're naked, 406 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: they all have to sleep in big piles to keep 407 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: their body heat. Going on, I'm gonna make a joke there, 408 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: but but they but to keep their lungs U up clear. 409 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: Some of the scientists have observed the mole rats um 410 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: placing wood shavings behind their teeth in front of those 411 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: lips to create like a basically a simple mask. I mean, 412 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't look you know, when I say mole rats 413 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: with ask, it may sound like they're creating like big 414 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: tribal uh you know, masks. It's not really the case. 415 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: But they're they're crudely using uh you know, little wood 416 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: shavings to help protect their face. So yeah, I read 417 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: about that. That is pretty cool. And and then with humans, 418 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: of course, our tool uses just all over the place 419 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: and has been like just an important part of our 420 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: our evolution. Like their studies that have that that relate 421 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: to dart throwing, like all the like, our risks are 422 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: really complicated. Um in the dart throwing motion, is that 423 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: the scenario that that that is getting a fair amount 424 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: of study because the evolution of these amazing risks we 425 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: have apparently has a lot to do with our ability 426 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: to use tools. So the dart throwing is this like, Uh, 427 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: did this come with the advent of pubs? Yes, ancient 428 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: caveman pubs where where they they learned to to brew 429 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: a hard cider and uh, and then they started a 430 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: plain dark All right, you'd have to establish your prowess 431 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: with the darts, and therefore we have a nice complicated 432 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: risk to think. No, that's completely not true. But hey, 433 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: speaking of creatures developing things like uh, pubs and hard cider, 434 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: we have some listener mail uh and it is what 435 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: I have here is some stuff related to our recent 436 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: podcast on animal junkies or Junkies the Animal Kingdom, which 437 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: received a fair amount of feedback. We're not able to 438 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: read everything, but the first one, this one I was 439 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: really excited to get because it comes from Jana Uh 440 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: in Newfoundland, Canada. Um, and we're I spent part of 441 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: my childhood. I mentioned mentioned this in in the podcast 442 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: when we're talking about mooses or moose mooses. Yeah, she says, Hello, 443 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm from rural Newfoundland, Canada. First of all, I'm glad 444 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: to hear you lived here once. Plus I would like 445 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: to second what you said about about the moose mooses here. Sorry, 446 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 1: we have hundreds of moose accidents a year here and 447 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: some of these often result in death, which is always 448 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: sad and unnecessary. The moose come out out to the 449 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: highway to lick the salt on the road, that is 450 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: that's put on the road to reduce ice. Many people 451 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 1: here have have started a group to get the government 452 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: to allow more moose hunting license if they're extremely overpopulated, 453 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: uh and put up moose fences along the main highway 454 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: to reduce accidents. Just thought this is another cool but 455 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: sad junkie story. That's interesting. Yeah, because you have it's twofold. 456 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: You have the the the moose coming in to eat 457 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: the salt and then uh becoming a pest to uh 458 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: well becoming a pest. Two drivers though, I guess you 459 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: could say the drivers of the pest and also where 460 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: you know they're the ones that are responsible for the overpopulation. 461 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: But anyway, it's great to hear from somebody in Newfoundland 462 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: your Yeah. Um. We also heard from um um a 463 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: listener by the name of Craig who grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee, 464 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: and uh he let us know that he used to 465 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: live in a neighborhood called Bramblewood, so called because of 466 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: a very large BlackBerry bramble and uh uh they weren't 467 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: apparently weren't able to pick all of the blackberries, so 468 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: they said, uh says the berries we couldn't pick would 469 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: ferm it in the summer sun and seem to attract 470 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: animals from all over. As the more rotten the fruit got, 471 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: the more birds you would see sluggishly hopping around the 472 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: ground or just collapsed in a heap on a branch. 473 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: The rodents got in on the act as well, and 474 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: it was quite a sight to see startled squirrels leaping 475 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: for branches and missing. All This uh concentration of slow 476 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: moving prey eventually attractive snakes, and by the end of 477 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: BlackBerry season you could always find several snakes lying beneath 478 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 1: the brambles with bulges in their bodies. It's hard to 479 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: tell if a snake is drunk, but if you were 480 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: going to uh going to ever get one to consume alcohol, 481 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: I suppose this would have to have been the way. 482 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: So that was I love that because we obviously Atlantas 483 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: in the South and we know those those uh warm, 484 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: crazy hot summers and I can just imagine all of 485 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: these creatures laying around, you know, drunk on their on 486 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: their BlackBerry brambles and getting eaten by snakes. It's happened 487 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: to friends of mine, doesn't Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say 488 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: it has like a very like Faulkner esque ring in 489 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: the Animal Kingdom and uh and then on this is 490 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: actually on our Facebook page, Oe. We had to listen 491 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: by the name of Cynthia, who was inspired by your 492 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: mention of how cat nip or the nip uma is 493 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: sometimes uh or at least used to be used as 494 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: a t for humans. So she says, quote, thanks to 495 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: the Animal a Junkie's podcast, I brewed some catnip tea 496 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: and gave it to my kiddies yesterday with some pretty 497 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: excellent results. I would definitely be doing that again. Thanks 498 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: for the idea. I love the podcast, and so I 499 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: had to get more details on that. So I asked 500 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: a few questions and she she provided these details. She says, well, 501 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: I deluded the t two to one because I didn't 502 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: want to overdo it, so they didn't finish all of 503 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: the deluded stuff. I saved the rest for next time, 504 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: but I left the tea cup with the dregs in 505 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: it on the ground as well, and that was gone 506 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: in a couple of seconds. Then there were just two 507 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 1: cats rubbing their faces on the water bowl and around it. 508 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: You gotta love it. Yeah, yeah, I have to say 509 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: that listeners don't try this at home. Kids, don't try 510 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: this home because I know that Cynthia is an expert 511 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: key brewer. Yeah, yeah, don't don't. Yeah, this is and 512 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: this is an experiment carried off vira own free will. 513 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: We did not contradate. We didn't at all. Yeah, we 514 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: just don't want to be responsible for any uh you know, 515 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: weird key related um epidemics out there, marauding cats, gangs 516 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: of marauding cats. Yeah. So there you have it. If 517 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: you have any thing to add about animal john kies, 518 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: about animal tool users, or even like your own children 519 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: learning to use tools. I find that fascinating as well. Um, 520 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: then then you know, let us know. You can find 521 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: us on Facebook and Twitter is Blow the Mind and 522 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: we frequently update that with all sorts of cool links 523 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: to how stuff works content, as well as content from 524 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: elsewhere around the web, and you can always drop us 525 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: a line at Blow the Mind at House to forks 526 00:27:52,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 527 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: Is that how stuff works dot com. To learn more 528 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the 529 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: upper right corner of our homepage. The How Stuff Works 530 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: iPhone app has a RYE. Download it today on iTunes