WEBVTT - Selects: What Happens When the Government Thinks You're Dead? 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.760 Hello, they're friends. That's Josh. And for this week's Select, 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.840 I chose our episode that takes a frank and thrilling 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.560 look at what happens when the government thinks you're dead. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.920 As you can imagine, nothing good is the answer to that. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:20.480 I hope you enjoy. Welcome to Stuff you should know, 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:29.400 a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, I'm welcome to 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.440 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck, Bryan, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.760 there's Jerry over there. Jerry's not eating anything today. Chuk. 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.720 There is clear And did you just do that as 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.720 a coaster? Yes, I don't want to make a chinky 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.080 sound every time, Like Okay, I thought I don't want that. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.760 I want this now, I get it. Did you hear that? 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.800 You didn't hear anything? No, I'm I said everyone. Josh 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.960 just folded up his notes and put his can of 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.760 cola down on that. And I've never seen you do that, 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.480 And I thought you were trying to preserve this cheap. 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.040 This thing is tougher than they. Okay, so it was 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.399 a sound thing. Sure, it's a sound dampening technique. Can 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.720 look at us after all these years. I came up 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.880 with that up in our game um, so, Chuck, do 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.840 you remember we did a social Security number episode? Did we? 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.280 I thought, so, you don't remember that one. It was 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.520 one of those ones where you're like, my eyes are 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.600 going to bleed because this is so boring, but it 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.880 turned out to be pretty interesting. It was one of 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:32.880 those remember that. But we should give a little bit 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.040 of a refresher on social Security numbers. Okay, yeah, here's mine. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.840 Oh you're gonna give your your to eight seven, nine four. No, 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.399 I don't even because what if I just accidentally said 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:50.120 someone else's like made one up? Yeah, and some dudes listening, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:56.120 it's like, dude, how'd you know Todd? It's always Todd? 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.280 I don't know. So, so security numbers, get this everybody. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.800 They first started being issued in November of nine six, 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:10.360 and the Social Security Administration was created to administer a 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.160 new deal program of federal benefits, things like welfare or 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:20.520 retirement benefits, medicare UM. The entire reason any of us 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.880 originally were given a Social Security number was to track 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.959 our lifetime earnings and to um determine how much we'd 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.040 put into Social Security so that when we retired, they 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.840 could determine how much we should get out in retirement. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.320 That's why everyone has a SOFAL security number. And because 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.680 there are nine digits um, there's something like a billion 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:46.320 different possible combinations. And we're about halfway towards using up 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.079 the SOB security numbers, but probably gaining fast. We are 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.280 starting to gain much faster than we were before, a 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.400 good point, but we still got plenty of time. But 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.720 because of this um, social security numbers get tired when 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.560 you die, which we'll get to. But originally, when when 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.920 you were given social Security number, that was it. It 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.240 wasn't meant for anything else but to track your earnings 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.560 in to figure out your retirement. Right. Yeah, not like 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.280 when you get to go to get a haircut basically 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.560 and they ask you for your Social Security number. And 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.040 the seventies, the federal government said, okay, there's a couple 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.119 of other things that you should really have your SOLI 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.160 Security number. For a passport, UM makes sense if you 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.400 go to open a bank account that was a new 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.440 one too, I'll buy that UM. But then, like you said, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.480 like as computers came along, now everybody asked what it's 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.800 become an identifier in a in an authenticator, and that 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.360 is really bad. That is not what we should be 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:46.040 doing with social Security numbers. It really not only that, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.240 but the phone numbers and everything and addresses. It just 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.280 annoys me. And I'm not like a conspiracy guy. It's 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.760 not like I think, like, oh, what are they going 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.320 to do with this? It just annoys me. Well, and 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.000 I can't get a haircut without provide. I'm like, I 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.200 have cash in my and you have scissors. Can we 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.440 just do this right? Can we do it like Floyd style? 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.200 You know? But it annoys me. But even if you 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.760 take away the annoyance, companies have proven time and time 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.000 and time again that they're not to be trusted protecting 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.039 your SO Security number because to authenticate you saying who 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.159 you are who you say you are, they've got to 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.640 have your SO Security number on file. And when somebody 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.760 hacks into their databases, they get your SO Security number. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.960 All of your information is right there, and it's become 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.000 a real problem. But it's also become a real problem 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.640 living a modern life without giving out SO security number. Right. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.760 So we say all this to point out that if 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.680 for some reason, you didn't have a Social Security number 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.440 any longer, it would be tough to navigate life. And 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.080 that actually happens to some people. Yeah, if you've seen 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.360 the movie Brazil, Oh is it like this? You never 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:01.000 saw Brazil. It's it's sort of this in a future 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:06.840 dystopian world, but you know, basically like it's it's bureaucracy 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:11.240 at its best of someone who's you know, dead or 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.479 not dead, and the government mixes it up. Is that 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.360 what Brazil is about? Yeah? I did not know that. Yeah, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.280 I'm glad you brought that up thing because we would 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.600 have heard from people. It's it's an Yeah, it's good, right, 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.839 it is. And you should go listen to the movie 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:28.039 Crush episode on Brazil with Jonathan Colton. Okay, yeah, I 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:29.960 didn't know that. Why no one slipped past me. I 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.800 wasn't talking to you, but sure, you're welcome to listen. Thanks, 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.080 I'm part of everybody. I had to go to the 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.640 Social Security Office recently to get a card because of 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.240 this job in our new company. Really, yeah, I had 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.520 to prove, you know whatever, that I'm alive. You didn't unemployable. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.919 I guess you didn't just give him your passport. I 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.400 couldn't find my passport because I'm in between houses right 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.919 now and it was buried somewhere. Okay, but you do 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.200 have it, because we're probably going to Toronto this year. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.680 I do have it. I did find it kind of 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.719 after I went to the Social Security office. But all 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.159 that was just to say that if you think the 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.400 d m V is a pit of despair, just go 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.080 to the Social Security I want to It's not fun. 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:18.599 I really don't want to know. So, um, okay, you 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.839 can imagine how bad it is when everything's just hunky 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.120 dory and you just need a copy of your card. 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.560 That's all you needed. Right For some people, some poor 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.680 SAPs out there, they are thought by the government and 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.880 listed by the government as having died, and that is 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.479 a big problem if you're alive. Yes, because again, you 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.680 need your Social Security number for everything to start with. 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.360 And then secondly, because we have enough social Security numbers 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.400 to go around. Like I said, when you die, you're 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.640 so security number gets retired with you and they hang 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.360 in in the rafters of your local NBA franchise. It's 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.680 exactly right. If you look really closely, they're all up there. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.240 But um, that's that is a problem for somebody who 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.920 gets listed as dead on what's called the death Master file. 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.640 Do I need to say it now? Even somebody listening 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:14.960 to the very first stuff. You should know right now. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.760 They know what you're saying. There's a bunch of good 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.080 band names in here. But Death Master File is pretty good. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.240 So uh. It's also called the Social Security Death Index, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.240 but death Master files way better. I think you would agree. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.720 It depends on who you're talking to. I think genealogists 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.480 typically call it the s S d I. Everybody else 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.360 calls it the death Master File. That's what I saw, 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.880 you know why, because they don't know how to party 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.200 or they get their own little weird party going on. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.360 Oh yeah, I didn't think about that. Um. Yeah, you 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.840 gotta look at people differently sometimes. I was trying to 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.720 think of the bumper sticker. Genealogists do it blank in 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:53.760 the in the archives. Genealogists do it with their DNA, 0:07:54.200 --> 0:08:00.880 with their dead ancestors. It's two bumper stickers, just having 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:05.400 ellipses had become of one. So uh, all right, where 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.840 were we the d MF. Alright, it's it was established 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.040 at the same time the Social Security numbers were back 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.320 in nineteen thirty six, and then it took all the 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.400 way to night before the public could even see this list, 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.480 right right, there was a freedom of Information Act that 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.720 was filed back in night um, and there was a 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.200 lawsuit in the federal court said you know what, yeah, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.920 this is this is public information. You have to publish this. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:35.880 And there's actually like a master death master file that's 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:40.840 called the New Newmandent and that's like everything, and that's 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.760 the that's the one that the death master file is 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.440 derived from. The public version of it is the death 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.680 master file, right which, when you die, there a bunch 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.560 of ways that your name can get to the s 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:58.199 s A, the Social Security Administration. Sometimes it's a funeral home. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:03.000 Sometimes it's from like a spittle. Sometimes it's from your family, um, 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.760 because it's the family's responsibility ultimately to report it. But 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:08.400 most of the time the funeral home is the one 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.520 that actually does is like a service. I wouldn't have 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.680 known that, but I also saw, um, well now you know, um, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.240 there's probably some poor stuff. You should know a listener, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.480 our condolences, who's dealing with this right now? It's your 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:26.560 responsibility to go report this to the Social Security Administration. Yeah, okay, 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:31.480 that's sad. I also saw that your bank, the postal service, 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.360 some other randos are legally allowed to report your death 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.120 as well, so as the post off post person to 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.840 saying like, I haven't picked up their mail in like 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.360 three weeks, they're dead. To me, I think I should 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.760 just report that. I don't. I don't know I could. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:50.080 I could not find the procedure from that anything other 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.760 than a couple of good sources mentioned the postal service 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.240 as a legal place, the legal entity that can report 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.200 your death to the FEDS. Right, So why do they 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.320 want this death Master File? Of course, if you have 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.640 paid UM, well, the government needs to know if you're 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.840 not around anymore. It's kind of that simple. There's a 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.640 couple of reasons why. Yes, they need to know, because 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.120 you get a little dough They can't have your Soubsecurity 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.280 number out there. They need to know that you're deceased 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:24.920 UM because they don't want to be paying um income 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.800 tax refunds if somebody starts filing them fraudulently. They don't 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.040 want people opening bank accounts in your name. They want 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.080 to make sure that you're listed as dead. And so 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.520 that's what the Death Master File does. It kind of 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.560 serves as the storehouse for all the people in America 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.320 who have been dead basically since the sixties. But it 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.959 goes as far back as nineteen thirty six or thirty seven, 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.880 which is surprisingly more than a hundred million people. Yes, 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.120 but they think that there's maybe up to sixteen million 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.120 dead people missing from this list. It's not it's not perfect. 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.880 We'll spoil now. I guess we should then follow that 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.240 statement by saying there are tens of thousands of people 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:05.920 on that list who should not be on that list, 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.280 right exactly, But before we get to there, um, This 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.760 Death Masterfile originally was so Social Security could track who 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.120 was dead and who wasn't, so they could determine who 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.679 to pay Social Security Administration benefits out to the survivors. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.320 Get this, did you know this? If you're in America 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.920 and you're the recipient, you're the survivor of somebody who 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.800 gets Social Security, you get a cool two hundred and 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.760 fifty five dollars to help bury them. Yeah. That's when 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.280 I said you get a little dough that I meant little, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.080 a little dough. Yeah, maybe like one of the fancy 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.040 handles on the casket would be covered by that. I 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.720 don't even think you can get cremated for two hundred dollars. 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:44.960 I don't know. I don't even think they'll leave you 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.800 in a ditch out back for two hundred dollars. A 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.880 sky burial costs more than that. Maybe that try state 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.079 crematorium would take your two hundred fifty dollars. But that's it. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.559 Do you remember them? Oh? Sure, yeah evil? So uh, 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.400 like you said, mistakes are made. And this is where 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.040 it turns slightly Brazil, there was an investigation in two 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.040 thousand eleven and they actually named grave Mistakes, which is 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:14.360 hysterical by Scripps Howard News service. And what they did 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.720 was they took uh this master death file from three 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.720 different years two thousand eight, two thousand eleven. They created 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.240 a computer program to basically just compare them to see 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.760 what they came up with. And that they found, uh third, 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.480 almost thirty two thousand living people who were listed as deceased, 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.839 and ninety eight or two thousand eight that were then 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.760 taken off that list after they realized that they goofed 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.800 up in two thousand eleven. So these people had spent months, years, 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.920 maybe um listed as dead. And here's the problem. It's 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.079 bad enough if you go to apply for Medicare because 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.880 you've retired or Social Security benefits and the government says 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.480 denied UM you're dead and you're listed as dead, because 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.839 as far as the government's concerned, if you're on this, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.959 you're dead. To them. That's bad enough. But remember that 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.760 Freedom of Information Act Um lawsuit that opened the thing 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.520 up to being published publicly. The reason why that suit 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.280 was filed is because the business community said, hey, we 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.680 can really use that thing there. It's basically it would 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.440 be like a big do not take checks from these 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.120 people list for all dead Americans. Because if somebody comes 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.320 to us and wants to open a bank account, wants 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.040 to get an insurance policy, wants to get a car, 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.520 wants to get a job, it doesn't matter, wants to 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.080 do something where they could take us for a ride, 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.040 if they're a fraud, then if we had this list 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.480 to check against, like social Security numbers or names or whatever, 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.720 we could root out fraud and we could defend ourselves 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.800 from identity theft and the fraud that's perpetrated by it. 0:13:56.360 --> 0:14:05.240 And so banks, insurance company, car dealerships, cable companies, employers, everybody, 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:09.640 other government agencies, all barbers, they don't forget them. They 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.439 all use this death Master file, which is available publicly 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.920 to check your applications against. And if the government says 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.720 that you're dead. It says that on this file, whether 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.720 it's right or wrong, you're dead. And that's a whole 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.360 lot of problems for you. We're gonna get into those 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:58.640 right after this, and things chock chock stop. So before 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.680 we broke, I was talking about that, uh, that scripts 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.720 um investigation, and there was an Inspector General's report in 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.560 two thousand and eight that kind of pulled back the 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:13.600 curtain on this stuff, and Social Security said, uh, yeah, 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.720 that's about right. There's there's a lot of people tens 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.360 of thousands that we think are dead and aren't dead, 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.240 but they're they're success rates pretty good. Yeah, and he said, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.200 they said, but we're at a ninety nine point five 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.200 nine rate of accuracy, which is not too bad for 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.840 a government bureaucracy. That's really good. And they said that 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.320 of the time, can you can fix it in just 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:43.480 a year, just a hellish year. Yeah, not too bad. Um. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:50.440 And so they basically admitted two being a government. Uh. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.280 I don't want to knock them too much because it 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.680 feels like everyone's always, you know, knocking government work. But 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.000 they're basically saying like, yeah, man, it these names are miskeeeds. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:06.080 Or these numbers are miskeyed. Sometimes happens, so UM. The 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.600 thing is that point for one percent error rate, that's 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.800 tens of thousands of people every year. There's like two 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.880 point seven million people added to this list every year 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.280 who die in America, right, so it adds up to 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.840 a lot of errors. The thing is that SoC Security 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.320 Administration UM, so they take their Death Master file, they 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.080 handed over to the National Technical Information Service, and they're 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.320 the ones who distributed to all the insurance companies, the 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.920 genealogy websites, I think ancestry dot com publishes it UM, 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.360 the yeah insurance companies, everybody who wants to do a 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.800 background check on you, they all get their their versions 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:52.000 of this from them, the National Technical Information Service. But 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.960 part of the agreement to get this from them you 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.160 have to pay for it, is that you have to 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.040 keep your DMF up to date because if you just 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.720 buy one every once in a while UM and the 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.000 Social Security Administration finds an error on and updates their file. 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.880 If you don't go get the new file, your old 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.520 file is still going to have that error. And that's 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.359 when it becomes problematic for the people who are listed 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.679 as deceased. When they try to go get credit and 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.960 it kind of has a tendency to spread once it's 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.800 out there. Yeah. So, like I said, sometimes it's being 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.600 mis keyed. UM. One I think they said like one 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:35.159 out of every two hundred is just from clerical error. Um. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.880 Sometimes it can be like, um, a family member goes 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.160 to report to death and they accidentally make a mistake 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.920 where they might end up being on the death list. Yeah. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.800 I don't know how that happens, but it does happen. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.119 There are people like Don Pilger human error, married du 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.560 Bord who who apparently married du Board just gave up. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.600 She She's like, my husband can get credit cards still, 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.200 I'm just gonna live off of uh. Sometimes you this 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.320 one woman named Candice Atkins just accidentally clicked deceased on 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.760 a tax return on an electronic filing, and that was it. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.119 Can you imagine now, I can't believe there's not an undo. 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.280 That's yeah, I was looking at me that she had submitted. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.720 I guess you could probably have undone it in the moment, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.480 but she didn't realize it and submitted it, right, But 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.320 you should still be able to undo that. Um. And 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.480 then there are some weird things these uh anomalies that 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.000 you dug up. Um. More than false listings made in 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:37.359 two thousand seven were from Illinois. Yep. It sounds like 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.119 a hiccup in the system to me. I hiccup in 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:45.800 the system or a super lazy data entry person you think. Yeah. Uh. 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.960 More than two million Americans were falsely listed as dying 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.080 on the fifte and that was just an internal policy, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.120 is to use the fifte as a default value when 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.720 they didn't know at the middle of the month. Sounds 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.639 good to me. Um, I guess that was just the 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.320 question of not going to the trouble of verifying the 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.800 information right so um. And it can happen the other 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.960 way too, you can be I think at least six 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.159 million dead Americans are labeled as alive, which is a 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.280 huge problem because you're you're just your information is out 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.439 there ready to be abused by the nefarious. Well, no, 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.960 that's the opposite. If you're If you're listed as deceased 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.439 but you're still alive, your information is being published and 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:34.000 can be used for identity fraud. If you're actually dead 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.040 and not listed. If somebody knows that you're dead and 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.920 not listed, they can use your stuff to to perpetrate 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.920 fraud against the government. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah, 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.440 sixty seven thousand of those people, of those numbers were 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.760 used to report three billion dollars in income between two 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.040 thousand and six and two thousand eleven. That's a lot 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:57.919 of text return refunds, so fraud. Yeah, So it's a 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.520 problem both ways, where either you're dead and you're not 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.840 listed on there, or you're not dead and they listed 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.160 you anyway. And like I was saying earlier, this once 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.000 this information gets out there, because there's so many different 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:17.840 entities getting this list, once it's out there, it stays 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.560 out there. It's very tough to go around to everyone 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.320 and and get this information changed. Even once you get 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.560 it changed with the Social Security Administration, because while it's 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.440 a requirement to keep your your list up to date, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.040 if you're a subscriber, there's no enforcement to it. There's 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.160 nobody who comes along and says, let me see your list. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.399 Oh it's not up to date. Give me give me 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.320 ten dollars that you're fine. There's nobody enforcing it. So 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.919 once it's out there, it's very tough to undo. It 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:51.399 takes forever, uh well less than a year on average supposedly. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.760 So there are a lot of horror stories, UM for 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.720 what this can due to someone's life. UM. This one 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.800 per Sin Rivers. What's the first name, Judy Rivers. Judy 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:09.880 Rivers Rivers Cuomo. UM. Police actually detained Judy Rivers from 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.320 using because she used a debit card, her own debit 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.880 card at a Walmart at Walmart Plus. She also had 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:21.160 a mountain dew bottle size meth lab in her pocket. Uh. 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.560 But in like it seems like all of these cases. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:28.000 It ranges from stuff like, um, your insurance gets all 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:32.840 messed up, or your maybe disability checks or your Medicaid payments, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.440 or you're trying to get a home loan or trying 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:37.760 to get a credit card, like anything that you can 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.480 think of where a social Security number might help. You 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.639 can't get a haircut. You should see how long the 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.600 hair is on these people. Even if you have cash, 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.679 they won't do it. Rivers ended up living out of 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.400 her car for six months. Yeah, she had just a 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.600 really bad time of it for five years. UM. And 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:56.960 at first she didn't know what was going on because 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.479 she was frozen out of her bank accounts. Because this 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:04.240 is something said like like you you can't get future loans, 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.199 you can't get future insurance policies, you can't get future credit. 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:11.240 But also the stuff that you already have, your current 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.520 bank accounts, all that stuff gets frozen because you're listed 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.360 is dead, and so that comes up on the computer 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.000 and your account gets frozen. And even when you show 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:22.720 up and say hey, it's me, you know me, the 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.000 teller can't do anything about it. The bank can't do 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.439 anything about it. It's it's done. And now you've just 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:34.399 been pitted against the system. Yes, and it's like there's 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:38.639 no door you can go knock on and say, hey, 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:40.960 we can clear this up in just a few minutes. 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.200 I'm clearly alive. You just click the few little things 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.760 you need to click to get my life back. Because 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:49.359 the c US government it's not nearly that easy. So 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.359 I guess, said Chuck, that brings up what to do 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.120 because there actually are procedures in place, Like we said, 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.680 the Social Security Administration says this is not fully accurate. 0:22:57.680 --> 0:22:59.959 Anybody gets this list needs to keep updating it as 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.640 we update it. I think they released an updated list weekly. 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:06.480 They don't even tell you though, you find out the 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:08.959 hard way almost always. That's a big one. Yeah, it's 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:12.080 not like they say, by the way, we found an error, UM, 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:14.200 because they don't know. They don't know you're alive. Right, 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.359 So I actually called the Social Security Administration. I did 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.720 because I wanted answers. You didn't go to the office. No, 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:25.399 I didn't know. It was a little laterward. It wasn't cowardless, 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.600 it was laziness. So UM I was talking to like 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.400 just the the guy who answered, and he knew exactly 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:33.560 what I was talking about, knew all the procedures. But 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:35.120 I asked him. I was like, do you guys ever 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:38.119 uncover this yourselves or is it when people come to 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:39.640