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Speaker 1: Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number three sixty

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Speaker 1: two and telling the show, I'm joined by the legendary

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Speaker 1: d I Y Michigan bow hunter John Eberhart to discuss

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Speaker 1: what exactly he would do in some of the deer

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Speaker 1: hunting world's toughest scenarios. All right, welcome to the wire

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Speaker 1: ton Podcast, brought to you by on X. Today. On

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Speaker 1: the show, we've got John Eberhardt back with me. And

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Speaker 1: if you're a longtime listener, you're familiar with John. He's

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Speaker 1: been on here quite a few times, I think four

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Speaker 1: or five, three or four somewhere in that ballpark over

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Speaker 1: the years. But if you're not familiar with John, here's

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Speaker 1: a really quick intro. He's one of the most successful

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Speaker 1: d I Y bow owners that I know of, especially

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Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan. He's got dozens of record

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Speaker 1: book books. He's written multiple books which I highly recommend,

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Speaker 1: such as Precision Bow Hunting and Bow Hunting White Tales

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Speaker 1: that Eberhart way. He's done all of this on public

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Speaker 1: land or by permission land, and he's doing it in

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Speaker 1: tough locations, and he consistently has success, and he's great

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Speaker 1: at telling people and teaching people how to do something similar. So,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I've had John on the show over

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Speaker 1: the years, You've heard kind of the basics of what

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Speaker 1: he does. Some of the you know, what do you

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Speaker 1: do with rubs? What do you do with traial cameras?

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Speaker 1: What are you doing this? Blow blah? But I thought,

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Speaker 1: what's a different kind of way that we could approach

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Speaker 1: a hunter like John? How might be there some different

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Speaker 1: ways we could learn from as m As I'm stewing

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Speaker 1: on this, I started thinking through different scenarios and thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, what would John do in that scenario? What

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Speaker 1: would John do in this scenario? And let's say you're

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Speaker 1: all set up in a tree, another hunter comes waltzing by,

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Speaker 1: and you've got an hour and a half left to daylight?

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Speaker 1: What would John Eberhart do in that scenario? What would

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Speaker 1: John do if he was dropped into a brand new

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Speaker 1: property at the end of the summer and he only

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Speaker 1: had one day to figure it out and prepare for

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Speaker 1: the season, what would he do in that scenario. Those

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Speaker 1: kinds of questions started popping in my mind, and they

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Speaker 1: were the impetus for this episode. What would John Eberhart do?

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Speaker 1: I think that there's something we can learn from a hunter,

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Speaker 1: not just by asking him or her what do you

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Speaker 1: think about X, but instead put them in a scenario

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Speaker 1: and ask them to explain their thought process, what exactly

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Speaker 1: they would do, why exactly they would do it, how

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Speaker 1: exactly they would do it. I think that we can

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Speaker 1: learn something new when you approach a topic in that

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Speaker 1: kind of way, and that's that's kind of my hypothesis

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Speaker 1: for today's episode. I'm thinking, I'm hoping, I'm pretty damn

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Speaker 1: sure that we can get a new level of insight

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Speaker 1: from John by picking his brain on a bunch of

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Speaker 1: example situations. So that's what we did. I'm grilling John

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Speaker 1: on one of our community's very best deer hunters, on

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Speaker 1: a bunch of hypothetical situations, very specific, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear how he would approach it. And I gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you a spoiler alert, They're gonna be a lot of

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Speaker 1: cool things that we cover. I'm I'm very much looking

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Speaker 1: forward to it. So I think, whether than me rambling

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Speaker 1: about it. Rather than me talking about how great this

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Speaker 1: episode is gonna be, we should just get into it

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Speaker 1: and see if it can actually live up to that billing.

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Speaker 1: I think it will. Every time I've ever talked to John,

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Speaker 1: I've learned something, and uh, I trust this will be

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Speaker 1: the case too, hopefully for you as well. So let's

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Speaker 1: get right into it, all right. I am very excited

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Speaker 1: to have back on the show with me John Eberhart. John,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming back on the show. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for inviting me. It's uh, it's always a treat

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Speaker 1: for me because because as you know, as I've told

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Speaker 1: you probably every year we talk, you were one of

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Speaker 1: the most influential people in the early stages of my

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Speaker 1: serious deer hunting journey, and and I've grown a lot

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Speaker 1: because of everything I learned from you. So it's just

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Speaker 1: great whenever I can get you back on the show,

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Speaker 1: because I know other people will benefit from it. To um,

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Speaker 1: I've got a cool idea. I think it's a cool idea,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you'll think otherwise, but I think I've got

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Speaker 1: a cool idea for this chat. Um. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into the real meat and potatoes, I just got

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Speaker 1: to hear real quick off the bat. It's been a

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Speaker 1: weird spring, a weird summer of everything going on with

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Speaker 1: with COVID and and everything else. I'm just curious. Regardless

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Speaker 1: of that, how do you feel about your deer hunting

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Speaker 1: prospects this year? Is everything looking okay to We're able

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Speaker 1: to do the scouting you needed? Is everything still on track? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Well it's get Uh. My shoulder surgery hampered my season

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Speaker 1: last year. Um this year, Yeah, I got out and

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Speaker 1: did all my scouting, all my scouting has done. Everything

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Speaker 1: looked great. Uh did some additional public land scouting, prepped up,

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Speaker 1: reprepped all my old locations. Everything's cool. I'm shooting fifty pounds,

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Speaker 1: I'm shooting about six arrows at a time. My shoulders

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Speaker 1: I'm still having issue, but I also definitely be able

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Speaker 1: to hunt. But as you well know, I don't go

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Speaker 1: out and look for deer. So I just I just

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Speaker 1: hunt according to the sign that I see during postseason,

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Speaker 1: that you know from the previous year's run. Um, So

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Speaker 1: I don't go out. I have no idea what's on

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Speaker 1: the properties like hunt because I don't own anything, I

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Speaker 1: don't leave anything. Everything is pretty far away from where

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Speaker 1: I actually live, right now is that something that do

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Speaker 1: you ever I can see an inherent benefit to that,

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Speaker 1: because there's always a certain sense of surprise when you

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Speaker 1: go out there. You don't quite know what's running around,

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Speaker 1: and when you see a buck that you want to shoot,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a holy smokes, look at this deer. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea who was out here. That's that's really cool.

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Speaker 1: But do you ever find yourself occasionally hearing about somebody

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Speaker 1: else who does get to specifically target one buck over

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Speaker 1: course of weeks or months or years. Does that appeal

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Speaker 1: to it all? Or is it you know, you're really

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Speaker 1: happy that you got uh. I. You know, there are

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Speaker 1: times when some buddy that actually hunts the same properties

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Speaker 1: as me tells me there's a big buck there, or

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Speaker 1: they show me a motion picture. Because I never hunted

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Speaker 1: property by myself. It's public or free knock on door

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Speaker 1: for permission. So if I have somebody shown me a picture, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that definitely raises my level and makes me concentrate more

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Speaker 1: on that piece of property. Um, you know, and that's

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Speaker 1: what Miles Keller used to do. Miles Keller is an

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Speaker 1: old school guy, but you know he always targeted a

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Speaker 1: single buck, you know, he'd drive around through the countryside

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Speaker 1: with his job and he'd see big bucks and then

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Speaker 1: he'd get permission. This is back in the seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 1: and he would target those individual bucks. And yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: always that always makes it a different type of a challenge. Um.

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Speaker 1: But when you're hunting like I do, where you're trying

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Speaker 1: to go to a lot of different places, you just

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Speaker 1: don't have the time to put out cameras and take inventories.

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Speaker 1: It's too far away. Um. I just you know, when

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Speaker 1: I like, when I go out of state, I hunt

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Speaker 1: cameras exclusively. We put cameras at every single location, and

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Speaker 1: we hunt according to what we see on the cameras. Um.

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Speaker 1: And but there's always big bucks there. You know, last

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Speaker 1: two seasons in Michigan, I haven't even seen a Pope

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Speaker 1: and young buck at all. There's time when I go

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Speaker 1: to Kansas, I'll see fifteen Pope young bucks in a week.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's definitely different here as you well know.

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Speaker 1: And I've had pretty good success on not doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of preseason scouting and turning bucks nocturnal before season

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Speaker 1: even opens. Um. You know, I've shot a few bucks,

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Speaker 1: a few book bucks, early in the season. So, um,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of doing what I do and I like

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Speaker 1: doing it. But once in a blue moon, I will

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Speaker 1: know there's a big buck on specific property and I

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Speaker 1: will actually target that buck and try to kill it.

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Speaker 1: So that was what I was. Yeah, so I was curious,

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Speaker 1: I was. That's exactly what I was gonna ask next.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to rack my brain to think back

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Speaker 1: through all the past stories I've heard from you, trying

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Speaker 1: to think about if there ever was a year where

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Speaker 1: a certain buck got under your skin and just changed

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Speaker 1: all your plans and you had to focus on him. Um,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that has happened before. Yeah, it happened

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Speaker 1: in There was a big buck on a little two

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Speaker 1: acre parcel that I hunt and somebody told me about him.

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Speaker 1: I had never seen him, so I went in there,

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Speaker 1: you know, during my during September, during a hard rain

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Speaker 1: and being two acres, I used to hunt it. I

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Speaker 1: used to hunt this property and somebody seeing this buck

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Speaker 1: across the road after dark, so I went and got

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Speaker 1: permission to hunt it again. And the lady could never

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Speaker 1: let anybody else hunter. Nobody else had asked because it's

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Speaker 1: such a small parcel. There was a cattail marsh that

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Speaker 1: butted up to her property, and right at the back

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Speaker 1: of her little two acres there was a little transition

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Speaker 1: zone into that cattail marsh. So I went in there

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Speaker 1: and I on the edge of the cat tails. There

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Speaker 1: was a bunch of red brush, and I went in

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Speaker 1: there like on September, and you know, three weeks after

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Speaker 1: the bucks are all rubbed out, the bigger bucks, and

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Speaker 1: it was all crashed up, you know, that just rubs

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Speaker 1: all over the place down that edge. So I prepped

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Speaker 1: a tree because it was rainy and I wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: make a lot of noise, and you know, it masked

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Speaker 1: my noise, and I prepped a tree and that buck

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Speaker 1: was kind of under my skin and I shot him

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Speaker 1: opening morning at eight. It was orange ten point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a heck of a buck for two act or

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Speaker 1: property especially. Yeah. It just there's very few years, you know,

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Speaker 1: and where I hunt in public and stuff that I

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Speaker 1: hunt where things work out perfectly, and that was definitely

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Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah, So that kind of fits really well.

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Speaker 1: That story fits very well into my idea for our

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Speaker 1: chat because I think this is our fourth, our fourth

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Speaker 1: or fifth one of these we've done together, and over

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Speaker 1: all those years, I've kind of grilled you on a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different tactics. I've asked you, you know, what

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Speaker 1: do you think about trail cameras, what do you think

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Speaker 1: about scrapes? What do you think about this? That, and that?

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Speaker 1: So we've got that kind of high level understanding of

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Speaker 1: what you do and how you do it pretty well.

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Speaker 1: So I started to think, you know, what would be

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Speaker 1: a way to get it a new like the next

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Speaker 1: level of nuance from you. And my idea is this, John,

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Speaker 1: I thought that I could just pitch out a variety

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Speaker 1: of different scenarios to you. Outline a scenario, and then

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Speaker 1: what I'd like to hear from you is what would

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Speaker 1: you do in that situation? I think we could learn

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Speaker 1: from all these different examples. So I'll put something out

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Speaker 1: there and then I'd be really curious to hear what

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Speaker 1: would you do, How would you do it? Why would

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Speaker 1: you do it? Maybe there's a story from the past

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Speaker 1: where this actually happened to you and you can tell

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Speaker 1: us that. Um, but I've got some interesting situations lined

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Speaker 1: up that I'm really interested to hear how you would tackle.

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Speaker 1: So if your game, I want to start playing. What

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Speaker 1: would John neighborheard do. I'm always game. It might take

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Speaker 1: me a few seconds to sid and think about something

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Speaker 1: to process this tough that's perfect process. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I think that would be great. So

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Speaker 1: so let's do that, John, And let's start with something

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Speaker 1: that's a little bit like what you just described. It's

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Speaker 1: a scenario that some people might find themselves here in

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Speaker 1: the coming weeks. Let's say it is late August and

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Speaker 1: out of the blue, maybe the mailman stopped by your

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Speaker 1: house and you got into a conversation with him, and

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Speaker 1: he happens to find out you're a deer hunter, and

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Speaker 1: you know he's been your mailman for twenty years, and

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Speaker 1: he says, you know what, John, you can hunt my property.

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Speaker 1: I've got, you know, forty acres or whatever, just back here,

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Speaker 1: go ahead hunt it. But it's the last week August,

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Speaker 1: and all you have is one week of available time

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Speaker 1: that you could go see it, scout it, prep it.

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Speaker 1: You've got like a day and a half, two days max.

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Speaker 1: Can you walk me through how would you use that

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Speaker 1: day and a half of weekend time to absolutely get

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Speaker 1: the most you could out of this brand new property

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Speaker 1: you picked up on the last weekend of August. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's happened to me quite a few times. Actually. Um,

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Speaker 1: what I would probably do is, I would grill the guy.

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Speaker 1: You know, if he owned forty acres, that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a for Michigan, that's that's an average parcel.

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Speaker 1: I would ask him if he knows of any decent

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Speaker 1: bucks on the property, um, that he has possibly seen,

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Speaker 1: because if he was a male man, that means he's

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Speaker 1: probably leading his house pretty early and coming in in

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Speaker 1: the evening, coming home. Um. And I would ask him.

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Speaker 1: I'd obviously look at an aerial and I'd ask him

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Speaker 1: what the layout of his property is. Aside from looking

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Speaker 1: at an arial, just to see what borders his property,

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Speaker 1: I'd ask him, okay, on your bordering properties, you know

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Speaker 1: how much hunting pressure is on the bordering properties. Is

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Speaker 1: there a swamp on your property? Is there a swamp

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Speaker 1: that butts up to your property? You know where your

248
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Speaker 1: mate maybe coming out of a swamp in the evening,

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Speaker 1: you know, right at the edge of darkness because it

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Speaker 1: butts right up to his fence line. Um, I'd basically grilled,

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Speaker 1: not grilled because the guy had given me permission, but

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Speaker 1: I'd ask him a lot of questions, and it's very

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Speaker 1: possible once I looked at an aerial photo of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it was just open timber, or twenty

255
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Speaker 1: acres of open timber with no under story and there

256
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Speaker 1: wasn't any betting area on it, if it was you know,

257
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Speaker 1: ten acres of pasture, if there wasn't any oak trees

258
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Speaker 1: on it, because he would know if he owned it,

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Speaker 1: if there was olk on it or some apple trees.

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Speaker 1: I would ask him what the actual property looked like,

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Speaker 1: what it contained. If it did have oaks, would they

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Speaker 1: brought up to some semblance of security cover for a

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Speaker 1: daytime visits, or if they're just oaks out in open timber,

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Speaker 1: where a mature buck in Michigan is not going to

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Speaker 1: access that place during daylight hours because it's too vulnerable

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Speaker 1: with no understory to for security cover. And then I

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Speaker 1: would go from there if if there was something that

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Speaker 1: I didn't think was conducive or better than what I

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Speaker 1: already have prepped. You know, because I have forty trees

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Speaker 1: preps going into the fall. I may only on ten

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Speaker 1: of them or twelve, but I've got trees ready. So

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Speaker 1: if it's not something that I think is going to

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Speaker 1: be overpowering as far as this is something where I

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Speaker 1: think I can win here and kill something on a

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Speaker 1: pretty short term time frame because it's got a betting area,

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Speaker 1: or it's got some apple trees button up the security cover,

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Speaker 1: or it's got you know, oaks that butt uped a

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Speaker 1: security cover. Um. You know, it would totally depend on

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Speaker 1: the layout of the property. I may just put it

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Speaker 1: off and totally not even go there, and you know,

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Speaker 1: scouted during postseason the next the next spring. But if

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Speaker 1: if it had everything I needed, I'd wait for a hard,

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Speaker 1: rainy day, or I'd wait for a very windy day

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Speaker 1: because the forty acre parcels really really small. As far

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Speaker 1: as if they had betting area on it, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a relatively small betting area. So I'd

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Speaker 1: wait for a nasty day where it's gonna mask the

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Speaker 1: majority of my noise and the majority of my scent,

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Speaker 1: even though I would be going in santlock. Um, I'd

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Speaker 1: go in on a nasty day, and I would very

291
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Speaker 1: cautiously look the property over. If I thought the property

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Speaker 1: was going to be conducive to have a mature book

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Speaker 1: on it, that might move on that property during daylight hours,

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Speaker 1: and I would also take because it's only forty acres,

295
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Speaker 1: I would take my prep gear and if there was

296
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Speaker 1: something that I saw that looked conducive for daytime movements,

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Speaker 1: i'd prep it right there on the spot so I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to make a second trip. So when you

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Speaker 1: when you say you'd walk it very carefully, can you

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Speaker 1: elaborate on exactly what you mean by that? Would you

301
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Speaker 1: just go and check out the few spots on the

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Speaker 1: map look the best, or are you going to cover

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Speaker 1: the whole thing or just the edges that? How literally

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Speaker 1: are you going to check it? I'm going to check

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Speaker 1: primarily the ages that there were a betting area on it.

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Speaker 1: I would would definitely not intrude into the betting area

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Speaker 1: in late August. There's no way I would. I would

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Speaker 1: definitely look at the edges of the betting area that

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Speaker 1: if there was any mast or fruit trees. And the

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Speaker 1: cool thing about going in there in late August, I

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Speaker 1: would know not only if their water masts or fruit trees,

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Speaker 1: I would also know if they were burying food, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I could see the acorns or apples in the

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Speaker 1: tree if it had that. So I would just go

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Speaker 1: the edges of any you know, projected bedding areas, and

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Speaker 1: and I would just walk gingerly and slowly because I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to spook anything. Because a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: you know, when when you go in and you preseason scout,

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Speaker 1: which I don't do anymore unless it's in a situation

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Speaker 1: like this, which is very rare. But when you go

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Speaker 1: in and you pre seasoned scout, a lot of times

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Speaker 1: the bucks are not bedded back deep into the bedding

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Speaker 1: areas there, They're on the perimeter edges of them. So

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Speaker 1: you've gotta be really really cautious, you know, and move slow, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you just gotta be as quiet as

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Speaker 1: you possibly can because you don't want to intrude on anything.

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Speaker 1: I did a live webinar the other day and a

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Speaker 1: guy had a situation very similar to that. He actually

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Speaker 1: pulled in on this piece of property and he saw

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Speaker 1: a buck that had been bettered in a fence room

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Speaker 1: and it was moving across a little opening in a

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Speaker 1: pasture towards September. So he didn't go over there, but

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Speaker 1: he asked me how I would go about setting up

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Speaker 1: on that, and I said, what I would do is Obviously,

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Speaker 1: that buck is probably betted in that fence room because

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Speaker 1: the fence rol he said, had a lot of heavy

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Speaker 1: security cover. It was probably betted on the edge where

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Speaker 1: he could see out into the little open pasture, and

339
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,360
Speaker 1: he probably had the wind coming in from his back

340
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Speaker 1: where he could smell anything coming in from from the

341
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Speaker 1: other side of the open area. So I said, what

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00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 1: I would do is I would go around through the timber,

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Speaker 1: you know, a way outside of the open pasture, and

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Speaker 1: I would go back around to where that buck was heading.

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Speaker 1: I would do it on a rainy or a windy day,

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Speaker 1: come back in the himber from the opposite side, and

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Speaker 1: I'd go and try and find out why, you know,

348
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: for buck to get up and move, there's a reason

349
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 1: he was going in that direction. And you know this

350
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Speaker 1: time of year it was food based. It was probably

351
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Speaker 1: food based, so there was probably something over there, some

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00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: form of a food source, you know, maybe an early

353
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Speaker 1: apple tree. It is way too early for dropping acorns.

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Speaker 1: But I'd find out why the deer was going that place,

355
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Speaker 1: and if he could find that location, set up a tree,

356
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Speaker 1: and then go back out the same way, because if

357
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Speaker 1: he if he were to go across that open pasture

358
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: and that buck was still bettered in the same place

359
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 1: he was when he when he saw him come out

360
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 1: of there. Probably that buck is going to visually see

361
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Speaker 1: him going across that opening, so he wants to definitely

362
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Speaker 1: go around where there's not going to be a visual

363
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 1: and it's nasty days not yet, he press the tree

364
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 1: that buck's not going to hear him, and then he's

365
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Speaker 1: going to go back out the same way he came in.

366
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Speaker 1: And then on opening evening he could go back in

367
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Speaker 1: the same way way around and go to that spot

368
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: and hopefully that buck gets up and keeps that same

369
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,640
Speaker 1: pattern and he might have an opportunity yet. Interesting, So

370
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 1: here's another scenario. Then it's a little bit related to

371
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Speaker 1: what you just described there. Um as he mentioned that

372
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Speaker 1: that buck was probably heading where he was because of

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Speaker 1: a food related attracting of some kind. Um. I want

374
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Speaker 1: to kind of understand better how you choose between potential

375
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 1: early season spots, you know, opening night set kind of situation.

376
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Speaker 1: So let's assume it's October one, and of all the

377
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 1: different places you have prepped, of all the different properties

378
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 1: you have, let's say you're down to two different stand

379
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 1: sites that seem ideal for early season. We're gonna say that,

380
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, all the conditions seem lined up for these spots,

381
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: but one of them is overlooking. Let's say a couple

382
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 1: of apple trees, and the other one is set up

383
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 1: a big it's next to a big, lone white oak tree.

384
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: Both of them are dropping. They're both kind of ideal.

385
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 1: Can you walk me through how you would try to

386
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: pick between those two. Maybe you've got a clear cut

387
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: favorite between the two food sources, or maybe you could

388
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 1: describe what other factors you would try to look at

389
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,919
Speaker 1: to determine which is your top option of those two

390
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: good options. That one is really, really, really simple because

391
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,440
Speaker 1: I always do. Let's say, let's say I've got I

392
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: think thisser have act again like trees prepped. Probably twenty

393
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: of those trees are going to be potential first day

394
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: or two or three of season trees. They're gonna be

395
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: early season feeding locations or potentially of a primary scrape

396
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: area on the edge of the standing cornfield. So what

397
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: I always do, and I've done this for years, I

398
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: will put on snuntlock and I'll try and wait for

399
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: a windy day. But it's not that critical, and I

400
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: do what I call a speed tour now. Because Michigan

401
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 1: season opens on September. On October one, I usually wait

402
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: until at least September before I do a speed tour.

403
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: And what a speed tour consists of. I haven't been

404
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: any of these locations since at least April, so i've

405
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: been there all summer. A speed tour consists of visiting

406
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: all of my existing potential early season locations at mass

407
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: and fruit trees or scrape areas and seeing if they're

408
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 1: actually bearing food or if the scrapes are active in

409
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: a scrape along age of a crop field, I won't

410
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: hunt it unless it's in standing corn. I don't care

411
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: how active it is. It's got to be standing corn

412
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: with security cover. So once I do that, you know

413
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: if there's multiple Let's say there's ten locations that are

414
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: dropping masked or fruit, and let's say there's one location

415
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 1: that's that's the scrape areas standing and it's next to

416
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: a standing cornfield. When I do this on the reason

417
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: I do this on September is because the bucks have

418
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: been rubbed out for at least two weeks, if not three.

419
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: Most big bucks up north are drubbed out easily by

420
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: September five, so there will be according to how much

421
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 1: DOT traffic is visiting these feeding locations. There will be

422
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: buck sign around these locations, so I will hunt them

423
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: according to the amount of rub sign, how high the

424
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: rubs are on the trees. You know, if it's at

425
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: an apple tree, it's not uncommon at all by September

426
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: twenty they have scrapes underneath it. It's even not uncommon

427
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: have scrapes underneath a white oak tree if there's not

428
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: a lot of white oaks in the area, if it's isolated.

429
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: Um and keep in mind, all of my early season

430
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: locations everything is security cover oriented, so I don't ever

431
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: prep any locations unless there's some form of perimeter security

432
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: cover around what I termed the kill zone at a

433
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: destination spot like a master fruit tree or scrape area.

434
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: And I also won't set up if there's not excellent

435
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: transitions security cover to that kill location from a known

436
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: betting area because of mature buck in a pressured state

437
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: like you and I live in, They're not going to

438
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: get out of a betting area and walk through two

439
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: hundred yards of open timber with no understory security cover

440
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 1: to access a feeding location. Even if the feeding location

441
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 1: has has a security cover around its perimeter, so it

442
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: has to meet it has to fulfill the security, recover

443
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 1: or cover requirements for me to even set it up

444
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: in the first place. And then I base which ones

445
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to hunt according to the amount of buck

446
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: sign that was at the location and the type of

447
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: buck sign at the location. When I do my speed

448
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: tours and it I'll do about three speed tours to

449
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: hit all the public land and private prices, and I

450
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: only have two private parcels right on. But it will

451
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: usually take three days to do my speed tours, and

452
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: they're all at it. Answer the question, answered it perfectly.

453
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: I've got one additional question, and I feel like I

454
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: might have asked you this question several years ago. I

455
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: can't remember if I asked you this slight version of it.

456
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: And here's what I'm curious about. I know that you

457
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: don't look at wind direction when choosing stand sites because

458
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: of your scent control, you're not worried about dear smelling you.

459
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: But do you ever take into account how dear might

460
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: want to use the wind? I can't remember if I

461
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: asked you that or not. Do you ever think about, well,

462
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: this buck might want to approach an apple tree with

463
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: the wind somewhat in his favor, So this stand would

464
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: give that dear in advantage versus that stand. Does that

465
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: ever enter your mind? Yes, it does, And your dad

466
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: asked me that, But that's okay. I get asked that

467
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: a lot, and it's a it's a very very viable question.

468
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: And yes, the answer is, I do set up specific

469
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: certain locations, especially scrape areas. If I go in and

470
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: I find a scrape area and it's it's in a

471
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: like a terrain feature dump where it might be where

472
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: all gridge drops down into a cat tail mars or

473
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: or there's some cat tails on this side, and there's

474
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: briars over here, and there's a night edge line, and

475
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: there's a river here where general skirt the river. You know,

476
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: basically where several train features dumped together. Um, if I

477
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: if I if there's a scrape area there and there

478
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: is a tree on the south or southeast side of

479
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: the scrape area and it's fifteen to twenty yards from

480
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: the scrapes themselves, that's more than likely the tree I

481
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: will set up because it's extremely common, and I've shot

482
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: two monster Bucks in Michigan this way. And again I'm

483
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: not worried about getting winded. That never ever enters my mind.

484
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: But it's really really common for a mature buck to

485
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: come in, especially in the middle of the day. They

486
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: do this a lot midday during the pre rutting road faces,

487
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: to come in and skirt around the actual scrape area

488
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: or come in from the down wind side, maybe the cards,

489
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: and they will just set check the scrapes without actually

490
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: going into the scrape area because the scrape area is open.

491
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: So scrape areas are always in an open area. It's

492
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: always a small opening someplace. So in two thousand and four,

493
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: for instance, I I shot a hundred or not it

494
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: was a hundred fifty. This is the vact same size

495
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: as the one I shot in fourteen. It was under

496
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: four or under a fifty four inch ten point, and

497
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: he did exactly that. I was hunting between two betting

498
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: areas and there was a there was a pinch point,

499
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: and there was a scrape area right there because it

500
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: can find dough traffic, and when there's confined dough traffic

501
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of dough traffic, that's where bucks

502
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: makes scrapes. All buck activity during the rough phases revolves

503
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: around dough traffic, so that's where they lay their dominance markers.

504
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: So I'm up in this tree in my saddle, and

505
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: it was like it was election day two thousand four

506
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: and I voted in the morning, and I drove down.

507
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: And this was in southern Michigan, is over by Grand Rapids, actually,

508
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: and I drove down and I got my tree. I

509
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it was around one o'clock, which

510
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: is kind of late, and but to thirty here comes

511
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: this buck out of this bedding area. And he was

512
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: actually coming from he was coming from up the actually

513
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: up wind of the or downwind of the scrapes. No

514
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: upwind of the scripts. He was coming in from the north.

515
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: The wind was out of the north, so he was

516
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: actually going with the wind. But when I seen him

517
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: coming in, the foliages down so I can see a

518
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: little bit of a distance. As he was coming in,

519
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: I thought he was going to come into the scrapes

520
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: because he was making a bee line right at the scrapes.

521
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: When he got about fifty yards from the scrapes, he

522
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: started going east and he went around the scrapes to

523
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: the east, and I had a lane that drugs and

524
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: I had a shooting lane that direction. So I swung

525
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: under n eighty degrees around the tree to the opposite side,

526
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: and by the time got around there, his butt was

527
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: just going through my shooting lane. So I swung back

528
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: around to my original position. And now he's coming in

529
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: and he's making a circle, and he's coming around behind me. Well,

530
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: he got behind me, so now he is directly down

531
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: wind of the scrapes and directly down wind of me.

532
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: And he was at about forty yards and he snopped, stopped,

533
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: and he sniffed, and a smaller bucket came in in

534
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: and urinated in the scrapes about an hour earlier, so

535
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: he smelled that, and he turned and he walked right

536
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: up and he stopped right under my tree. And my

537
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: tree is about it was about fifteen yards from the scrapes.

538
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: But he walked directly to my tree. So I can't

539
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: take that shot. I won't take that direct straight on shot,

540
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: more straight down shot. So I'm sitting there, and I mean,

541
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: if I would have spit, it would have went on.

542
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: He was directly under the tree, and he just raised

543
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: his nose and did a little lift curl and you know,

544
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: did a little like that, and he turned back around.

545
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: You know, they hadn't been a dough there, So he

546
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: turned back around and went in the exact same footsteps

547
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: he came in from. And he started to turn back around,

548
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: and now he's going back north. He's going back around,

549
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: and he's going through that east shooting lane that I had.

550
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: So I swung back around the tree and this time

551
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: I'm ready. And when he got when he got in

552
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: the shooting lane, I just did a vocal doll blat

553
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: and stopped him. And I was a full drawn eye

554
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: shot him. So you know, that was a situation where

555
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: I set that tree up basically because I know big

556
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: Bucks like to scent check certain areas from down wind.

557
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: Now I have found when I'm hunting at apple trees,

558
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: bucks will typically the wind is irrelevant. They're coming in

559
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: to eat eat apples. They're usually going to come in

560
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: from wherever the thickest cover is. And and I've been

561
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: preaching this for a long time. So if there's excellent

562
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: security cover on the backside of an apple tree from

563
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: the tree I'm hunting from, I'll rape the front of

564
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: that tree so I can shoot to the back side,

565
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: because usually they'll come in and they'll stay in the

566
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: security her, stick their neck out a little bit, eat

567
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: a couple of apples, turn around, go back through the

568
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: security cover. They won't come out into the open underneath

569
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: the tree like the other Dose and Sporting Bucks will.

570
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: They'll stay tight to that security cover. So in that situation,

571
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: it's not so much a win situation as much as

572
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: is a security cover oriented situation where they want to

573
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: be in the security cover where they got to quick exit. Okay,

574
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: that that makes sense. Okay, let's let's throw another scenario

575
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: that's that's similar to this, or it's kind of a

576
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: next step from what we've been describing. Were in this

577
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: early season situation, you picked your top food source and

578
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: based off your speed tour, you're set up. It's a

579
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: great night. Conditions look great, you're excited about it. And

580
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: let's say maybe two hours give or take before dark.

581
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: Another hunter comes in. Right, you've got all properties that

582
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: you share with other people. Another hunter comes walking through.

583
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: He's got his end blowing into really great cover. You know,

584
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: he's not practicing scent control as well as you are,

585
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: so he stinks he's being careless and he kind of

586
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: walks right through your good stuff and he he goes

587
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: out of sight, but you know he made he made

588
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,479
Speaker 1: a serious ruckus and and probably did some damage. In

589
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: that scenario, do you stick it out or do you

590
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: call it and and say, all right, the hunts screwed,

591
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: I'm out of here, and I cut my losses, or

592
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: maybe even try to go to a new location. You know,

593
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: of what would you do in that scenario. If it's

594
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: early enough, It's pretty rare that I hunt any location,

595
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: whether it be public, private, or whatever where I don't

596
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: have multiple trees prepped. So if it's early enough and

597
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: it's an afternoon hunt, yeah I would. I would get

598
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: down and move. If it's if it's late enough where

599
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: there's no way I can move in time, I'm gonna

600
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: sit there and stick it out, even though I know

601
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: my eyes are killing anything or pretty close to zero.

602
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: But I've had that situation happened a lot. I've also

603
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: had it happened a lot where I'm in my tree

604
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: way before daylight on public land. You know, I'm in

605
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: my tree an hour and a half for daylight. You know,

606
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about the spot. And then you know,

607
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: I see guys pull up on the road because the

608
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: foliage is down and it's a three quarters of a

609
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: mile away. I can see the headlights and then all

610
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I see these dudes with these bright

611
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: ass head lamps that are six D Loomens. Yeah, and

612
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: I have heer run by me, you know, half far

613
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: before daylight as these guys are coming in, and I

614
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: know my hunts screwed for the day. But there was

615
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: one time, and this was in seven UM, and this

616
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: was on an all day sit. I had a guy

617
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: walked right under my tree. I actually said something to

618
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: him because this was on a twenty acre parcel and

619
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: I knew the other there's two other guys that hunted it,

620
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: and I knew this guy wasn't honting them. And I

621
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: actually quietly when he was right underneath me, and he

622
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: just had a red plaid shirt on and a fair

623
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: of blue jeans and a compound bote, I said, hey,

624
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, and he looked up and he didn't see

625
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: me at first because I was up, so I and

626
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: finally I got his attention and I said, hey, you're

627
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: not I don't think you're supposed to be here and

628
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: all the guys they have permission, and he said yeah,

629
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: you're right, I'm lost. I came in from the other property,

630
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: which was a bullshit use my breads. But anyway, he left,

631
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: he left, and he walked. He walked out on one

632
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: of my shooting lanes, and it was actually the shooting

633
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: lane that I expected if I did get an opportunity

634
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: to get a shot at that's that's the lane I

635
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,239
Speaker 1: thought the deer would cross on. And the guy had

636
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: leather boots, so I looked at I looked. I looked

637
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: at him as he was walking away, and I knew

638
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: if a deer came into that lane, because the wind

639
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: was blowing from the betting area, a wet you know,

640
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: across that lane. So I knew if a deer was

641
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: coming out of that bedding area and he came into

642
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: that lane, I'd have to take the shot before it

643
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: cut those leather boot tracks that that guy had just

644
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: walked out on, because I knew, without a doubt that

645
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: would bust that deer if it was a big, mature deer,

646
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: which was what I was after. And it's straight up

647
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: twelve o'clock, I mean it was to the minute twelve

648
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: o'clock noon, and it's big fourteen point came came down

649
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: through the bedding area sunny day, absolutely gorgeous blue bird day,

650
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: and this guy came. This guy went through it about

651
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: ten thirty and I shot that buck and I drew

652
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: my bow just as his nose was coming into that lane.

653
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: And I make my lanes relatively wide. You know a

654
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: lot of times I see people with shooting lanes and

655
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, how in the hell they ever get a

656
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: shot here? How did they stop a deer in that

657
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: narrow of a shooting lane? But anyway, I stopped that

658
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: dear just probably two ft before you know, he would

659
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: have sniffed that guy's leather boot um older and uh,

660
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: and I shot him, and it was that was a

661
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: team point. It was a difficult four team. Would you

662
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: do anything differently if now I don't know what date

663
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: you said that was, but back to the original scenarios,

664
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: that was actually I think November one, Okay, So maybe

665
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: that answers my question for me, because I was gonna say,

666
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: if I changed the date from October one to November,

667
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: would you be more apt to stick it out even

668
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: if you had a bunch of time in the day,

669
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: just because you know it's the rut and you know,

670
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: anything can happened. There could be a buck from three

671
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: miles away that comes through. I did that day. Yeah,

672
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: I thought about moving because I was planning on sitting

673
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: all day, and he went through ten thirty. But it

674
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: was such a good spot, and it was pre rot

675
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: between two betting areas, and I love the hunt betting

676
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: areas or transition zones between two betting areas, and that's

677
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: what this was a transition route between two betting areas

678
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: with lots of security cover. Um. So I thought about

679
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: getting down, but it was such a good location. And

680
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: he went dead center through the middle of that lane.

681
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: In that lane, that shooting lane was probably four yards wide.

682
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: So I figured if a buck came from either direction

683
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: in that shooting lane, I could stop him and take

684
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: a shot before you get that guy's tracks. Ye. Now, okay,

685
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: let's look at another possibility here. Let's look at a

686
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: different kind of uh negative uh. What's the where I'm

687
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: looking for a negative variable? So that scenario is another

688
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: hunter coming through. What if you're in a perfect spot,

689
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: You're in one of your primetime locations, it's late October

690
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: or earlier November, you're in one of your honey holes.

691
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: You've waited all year to go to and a big

692
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: mature buck steps out. He's about to step into a

693
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: shooting lane, and then he spots you, or you make

694
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: a noise and he catches you know, looks up at

695
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: your silhouette, or something happens and he knows that the

696
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: jig is up, there's a person here, and he bolts

697
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: out of there. What do you do in that inn area?

698
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: Do you give up that day? Do you give up

699
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: up in that spot for days? Do you give up

700
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: on it for a week or would you come back

701
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: there at some point because it's so good and other

702
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: deer might be in the area. What's your thought process

703
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: in that scenario? I have to say, Mark, I've never

704
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: had that happen in Michigan. Um, you know, on out

705
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: of the saddle and I behind the tree so I

706
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: don't get picked u which is a major issue I'm

707
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: having with a lot of that's YouTube crap on saddle hunting,

708
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: because these guys are hunting in small trees and sitting

709
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: on spots where they can't move around and maneuver around

710
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: the tree so they don't get picked. So I'm having

711
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: major issues with that and on my YouTube videos that

712
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come out with you're gonna see why. But

713
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: on that I've never had that happen to me where

714
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: I've gotten picked in and a deer is busted. Now,

715
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 1: when I was in Iowa, I had a buck come

716
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: through and it was honored forty and shade point and

717
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: he stopped and he picked me. He saw me in

718
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: the tree because I was in a tree, I couldn't

719
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: move around to the back side because they had too

720
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: much balin. And and this was in n no, no,

721
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: this was in two thousand and one, um. But anyway,

722
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,959
Speaker 1: he stopped and he looked at me for about four

723
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: seconds and it was just like on TV where they

724
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: look at you and it's like whatever, and they put

725
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: their head back down and kept going and I shot him.

726
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: So I shot him that time. But I guess if

727
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna just you know, say, okay, you're sitting in

728
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: a tree and a buck a big buck bus too

729
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: odd to me. Hunting that location again would be pretty

730
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: close to zero that year, and I think that would

731
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: affect even if that buck did make it through that year.

732
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: I think that buck would remember that location and definitely

733
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: looking and look in that location for a person when

734
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: he came into that spot. I think their memories are

735
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: good enough to do that. I know does do that

736
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 1: was my next thing. I was gonna say, what about

737
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: with the dough would you how you get busted by

738
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: a doll for one reason or another, same scenario, but

739
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: it's a doll this time. What's the plan? Then stick

740
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: it out? Oh yeah, I'd stick it out with a doll.

741
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: And it would depend on where I was, if I

742
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: if I were next to a swamp, or if I

743
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: were in a bedding area, you know, during the rud phases,

744
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: And a dope came in and she spooked and she

745
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: did the typical snortnutes yeah, and left her inter digital

746
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: gland order and snorted and makes all kind of noise. Um,

747
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: if I could get down and quietly go someplace outside,

748
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: would definitely do that to give you an example of

749
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: a dope kill. And this happened that she's thirty years ago.

750
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: I had a friend, um, and he was hunting in

751
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: December on public land up by Evert and and if

752
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: he had a decent buck. And when I see a

753
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: decent buck three years ago, it was like a nine

754
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: two and a half year old eight point you know. Um,

755
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: But he was trying to kill it, and it was

756
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: kind of on the edge of the swampy area and

757
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: there was snow on the ground, and he was baiting

758
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: at the time. He had he had a pile of

759
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: beats out and I don't bait. But anyway, I was

760
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: talking to him one day and this was probably around

761
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: mid December, and he said that, man, I've got this

762
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: dough and she comes out, she she has two fonds.

763
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: Whether she'll come out through the swamp and stop on

764
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: the edge of that, right on the edge of the

765
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: security cover, and she'll look at that bait pile and

766
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: she looks up at me. And he's in a big oak.

767
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: He was in this huge white oak tree and he

768
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: was hunting out of a tree stand I on out

769
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: of the saddle. Um. He was in this big white

770
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: oak and his his stand was obviously against the tree

771
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: facing the bait pile, so he had the whole big

772
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: trunk of the tree is his background. But again it's December,

773
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: so all the foliage is down. And he said two

774
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: times in a row that doe came out, stopped on

775
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: that edge, looked in the tree, saw him snorted up,

776
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: and you know, for thirty seconds and then turn around

777
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: ran back in and he never saw another deer both evenings.

778
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: And I said, well, do you want me to kill her?

779
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: And he said he said, yeah, right, how are you

780
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: going to kill her? And this guy was a good hunter.

781
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean he killed a lot of stuff, you know,

782
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: a lot of little bucks. And I said, well, I

783
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: didn't add I'm not gonna tell you how. I should

784
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: just ask you if you want her dead. And he

785
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: he was kind of cocky like I was, and he said, yeah,

786
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: if you think you can kill her, I'll will show

787
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: you where it's as we showed him where it's at.

788
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: And so that evening, Um, I got up in the

789
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: tree and the wind was right because that's before I

790
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: was using sell lock, so the wind was perfect for

791
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: this evening. The one was blown from the swamp across

792
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: the bay to the tree and I got up about

793
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: eight feet above his tree stand and I got on

794
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: the eighty degrees on the back side of the tree.

795
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: And this tree was totally big enough to block my

796
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: silver wet. So just like he said, almost to the minute, said,

797
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: here comes this big dog coming coming through the swamp.

798
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: I could see her. She coming right to that edge

799
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: of two flonds were behind her, and she stopped and

800
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: she looked at that tree up in the tree at

801
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: the stand, and looked back down at the bait. She

802
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: looked at the side, you know, it put it took

803
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: her probably three or four minutes, and then she walked

804
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: out to the bait. And there's probably a this is

805
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: probably a three day gap between the last night he

806
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: haunted it and this this sun walked out to the bait.

807
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: And when she when she was eating the beats, she

808
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: was facing the tree so she could see so she

809
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: could see if somebody was in that stand, you know,

810
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: she could see him out of the peripheral vision, if

811
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: there earth there was any movement in that tree. Well,

812
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: then the fonds came out, and you know how the

813
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: flonds are there turning off different sides. As long as

814
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: moms they're they're fine. So finally, after about ten minutes,

815
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: she slightly turned so she was she got she felt comfortable,

816
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: and she turned where she was quartering about forty five

817
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: degrees towards the tree. And I just slightly leaned out

818
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: to the side and took the shot and shot her.

819
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: And that guy's just freaked out. It's really cool. That's

820
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: pretty nice when you can show your buddy up like that. Right.

821
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well I wanted to prove it to myself

822
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: because if I couldn't have done it would have been

823
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: kind of Oh man, I uh, I got another one

824
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: for you. We're we're to pivot a little bit. We're

825
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 1: somewhere mid season and you are heading in to hunt

826
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: some public land you had You've got a pre set

827
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: location that you had prepared at some point. Well, well,

828
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: we'll wait a minute. When you say mid season, what

829
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: do you mean by mid season? Okay, you're right, good,

830
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: thank you for calling me out. I should be more specific.

831
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: I would not go in during mid October to on

832
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: public land in Michigan. It would be a waste of

833
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: my time. Yep. I should say mid season, like late October,

834
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 1: early November, give or take somewhere in that pre rut

835
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: to rut time frame. Okay, and you've got a spot

836
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: you're going towards that you feel good about. You're heading in,

837
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: sneaking in. You've got a great access route. But along

838
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: the way you come across just some sign that you

839
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: can't ignore. It's just it's rubbed up like crazy. There's

840
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of fresh scrapes insecurity cover and there's an

841
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: apple tree maybe that's been pounded by doughs, just like

842
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: all these things are stacking it up and it looks

843
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: unbelievably good. But there's no quality trees in the area

844
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: at all. Even if you happen to have your freelance

845
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: kit with you to hang up in a tree. Uh,

846
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: there's no tree. It's for whatever reason, it's to super

847
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: shrubby stuff. And you're stuck with either going to your

848
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: predetermined location or try to figure some other way to

849
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: hunt this sign. Would you hunt that super fresh sign

850
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: on the ground in some kind of impromptu way, or

851
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: would you say that I gotta stick with my plan,

852
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: I'll come back and set a stand up here tomorrow

853
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 1: or something. I would stick to my plan. I would

854
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 1: stick to my plan if it was if it was impromptu,

855
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: because to make to make a sufficient ground blind requires

856
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: some work. And if you have to break weeds or

857
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: cut weeds or do anything cutting, you're leaving in order.

858
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: You know, I may be in sell lock, so I'm

859
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: not leaving any order. But if I'm doing a lot

860
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: of cutting or breaking vegetation to make a makeshift ground blind,

861
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: um leading older there that is not normal for that

862
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: particular location, on that particular you know, at that particular time,

863
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: there's just too much vegetable cleaning out or vegetation order

864
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: that could alter a mature bucks mindset. Is he's coming

865
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: into what at that point would be a destination location

866
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: for him. So I would definitely go on about my plan.

867
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: Now what about Well, I guess I accept that answer,

868
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 1: and I'm going to move on to this next area,

869
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: in which go ahead. What were you going to say?

870
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: What about? Well? I was curious about if there was

871
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: a tree there, would you absolutely, without a question, there

872
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: was a tree there, I would absolutely if the sign

873
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: warrants it, I definitely set the tree up and hunter

874
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: right then. But here's but wouldn't in that scenario you

875
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: would have been going to a preset location. So are

876
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: you saying you would go back to your truck, get

877
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: some kind of climbing uh ascension tool, and then walk

878
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: back to that location, put in steps or whatever, and

879
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: go up in the tree. Well, typically, when I'm hunting

880
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: public land, I'm not hunting a preset location. It maybe

881
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: a preset location as far as you know, I know

882
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: where I'm going and there's adequate openings for shots. But

883
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: you know, I'm still toting my climbing gear with me,

884
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: so my climbing gear would fit on the tree that

885
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: was accessible at this hot location. I would use my

886
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: climbing gear on that location as long as long as

887
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: there was you know, a lot of times when you're

888
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: on public land, you'll see locations that are hot, but

889
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: there's no trees where you have a shot opportunity because

890
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: you obviously can't cut branches and clear shooting lanes to

891
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: that specific spot. And the tree that you can set

892
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: up does not give you a shot opportunity to that spot.

893
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: So you know, it would totally depends on the situation,

894
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: but I'm I would be carrying my prep fear with

895
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: me anyway. Okay, now you get to your tree, you're

896
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: hunting it, and this is this is a scenari that's

897
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: happened to all of us, I think, and it's happened

898
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: to me plenty over the years, and I've I've debated

899
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: both internally and even externally on this podcast about what

900
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: the right decision is to make in this scenario. And

901
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 1: this scenarios, you're sitting in a great location, you know

902
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: you're in there for a reason deer should be passing

903
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: through for several reasons that you've predetermined. But the big

904
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: mature buck shows up and he's eight yards you know away,

905
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: he's off in the distance, and you see him move

906
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: somewhere out of sight. You now are stuck sitting and

907
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: thinking should I relocate to that spot for tomorrow? Should

908
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: I stick it out where I'm in now? Because I

909
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: think that it's more likely that another one will come

910
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: through here for some reason, because of all these other

911
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: reasons that you originally set up there. I guess what

912
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is how quick are you to

913
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: move based off of a siting, and what factors have

914
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: to do in place for you to say, yeah, I'm

915
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: moving right away to that spot. Well as far as moving, obviously,

916
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: if I see a big buck and I'm set in

917
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: a specific location, that buck has already moved through that

918
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: location where I just saw it, So I'm obviously not

919
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: going to get down and move there on during that

920
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: particular hunt. But would I definitely move and go back there.

921
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: I would definitely go back and look and see what

922
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: the reason was that he was there the next day

923
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: possibly um and that situation and has actually happened to

924
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: me before. The biggest I've ever shot in my life

925
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: was a u inter and it was in Iowa, and

926
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: I was actually sitting and I had a decoy out,

927
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: and I was down in a swamp and I was

928
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: gonna be on an all day sat and um I

929
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: saw a bunch of deer activity, but two hundred yards away,

930
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: because again the foliages down. This was in mid November.

931
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: The foliage was down. I saw a deer activity, not

932
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: necessarily buck activity, big bucket activity, just dear activity couple

933
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: hundred yards away. So I got down at about ten o'clock,

934
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: packed up the decoy, put him in my military double bag,

935
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: and stored him where, you know, so I could get

936
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: him on my exit after dark. And I just you know,

937
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: I'm in stuntlock again. And I took all my climbing

938
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: gear out when I descended the tree, just slowly walked

939
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: back through there found but back where I got to

940
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: the area where I had seen that deer traffic earlier

941
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: in the morning. Um Man, I just saw a scrape

942
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: area from home. I mean there was for monster scrapes here.

943
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 1: One of the men had two huge clumps of deer

944
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: droppings all clumped together and they were big dropping, so

945
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: I knew it was a big buck. And there was

946
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: still urine in that particular scrape that I could see

947
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: a spot of urine in it, which out and off

948
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: the urine was is the droppings were old that the

949
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: urine could have been something else. So I prepped a

950
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: tree and I shot that that hunter eight inter that afternoon.

951
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: It was a twelve point um. In another time, and

952
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: this one was in Michigan, Um, I was sitting in

953
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: a tree and I about eighty yards away two evenings

954
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: in a row. I actually hunted a tree two times

955
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: in a row, and both both times there was a

956
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: decent buck. He wasn't a monster, but I saw a

957
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 1: decent buck about seventy eight yards away going down the saint.

958
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: He went the same route both evenings in a row.

959
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: So the next evening I went back in there and freelanced,

960
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: and I prepped a tree, and I actually put out

961
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: a dope decoy and that evening net. But because there

962
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: wasn't any trees right where he was going through, so

963
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: I had to I took a decoy and I was

964
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: set up about forty yards from where he was going

965
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: through on top of this little bridge kind of like

966
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: and um, and he saw the decoy. He came right

967
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: over and I shot him in fifteen yards and it

968
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: wasn't a monster, but it was a good buck for

969
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: the time. That was thirty years ago too. Speaking of decoys,

970
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: I know that historically you've been, you know, willing to

971
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 1: do something like that or use calls or rattle when

972
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: you're out of state, like Iowa or Ohio or Kansas

973
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: or something. But in Michigan, from from everything I can

974
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: remember ever reading from you and hearing from you, you're

975
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: usually very very conservative of that stuff. Um. It's a

976
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: two part question. Number one, has that changed at all?

977
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: And number two, I want to paint one specific scenario

978
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: to consider of that with Let's say you're hunting in

979
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: a location in this big mature buck steps out in

980
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: Michigan just out of range, Let's say, I don't know,

981
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: thirty yards whatever, let's say five or ten yards outside

982
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: of whatever you're comfortable shooting ranges. Would you called him

983
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: in that scenario or is it still like, where's that

984
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: line for you in Michigan? If he was if he

985
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: was that far away thirty forty yards, it would depend

986
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:36,479
Speaker 1: on what was between him and me. Um, that's pretty close. Um,

987
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: since thirty forty yards and there was really heavy security

988
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: cover between him and me. I might possibly do a

989
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: really quick soft inhale runt because I carry an inhale

990
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: and an exhale rount call with me. Or I might

991
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: possibly do just a little light vocal you know, a

992
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: dobl at domat um. But if there were no you know,

993
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: if he's forty yards away and there was nothing, but

994
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: you know a little bit of brush between me and him,

995
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: and I do some sort of a vocal thing to

996
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: try and move him closer. You know, if he's a

997
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: big enough buck, he's going to take a look in

998
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: that direction. And if there's nothing there, visual, he's not

999
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: gonna he's not stupid, he ain't gonna come into it.

1000
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: It might happen out west, but not here. UM. So

1001
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, in that scenario, I don't know if I

1002
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: would do anything or not. But there has been several

1003
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 1: times in Michigan during the first few days of season.

1004
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: And I'll give you one really good scenario. Um. This

1005
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: was in nine UM, and this was on October two,

1006
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: and this was a morning hunt, and I was up

1007
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: in a tree. UM, and these deer were transitioning through

1008
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: some timber with some form. There was a little bit

1009
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: of understory in this timber, and they were they were

1010
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: probably two hundred yards away, and all I could see

1011
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: was their legs below the canopy. I did they I

1012
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: had no clue they were heading into a betting area.

1013
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 1: It was probably on our yards in front of them.

1014
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: I had no idea if there was a dozor bucks um,

1015
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 1: so I took out I took out my rattle bag,

1016
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: and I made a light sparring sequence about ten seconds,

1017
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, with a little gap in between, and they

1018
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: both turned and they started coming my direction. Well, when

1019
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: they got about forty yards from me, they were facing

1020
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: my tree, and I could tell they were both bucks.

1021
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: It was an eight and a ten point, and they

1022
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: actually totally lost interest. It took them took them a

1023
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: couple of minutes to get that far, and they had

1024
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: lost interest, and they started actually eating acorns under an

1025
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 1: oak tree, and and I'm like, well, maybe they'll keep coming.

1026
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: And then they got lost interests and eating acorns and

1027
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 1: they turned and started heading back towards that betting area again.

1028
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: So now they're about fifty yards away. They're moving away

1029
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: from me again. So they're too close for me to

1030
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 1: do a sparring sequence again because the sparring sequence takes time,

1031
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 1: and it's easier if they stopped. You know, they were

1032
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 1: within visual sight of me now because I can see

1033
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: them at first. They couldn't see me when I rattled

1034
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: the first time, but they could visually see me in

1035
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: the tree. And obviously, if I'm gonna do a sparring

1036
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: sequence that takes five seconds, you know they're gonna turn

1037
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: their head immediately and they're gonna see it's coming from

1038
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: up in a tree, and they're obviously not going to

1039
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: come in. So I took out my again. I took

1040
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 1: out my soft inhale grunt call and turned around the

1041
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: opposite side. You know, I was in my saddle and

1042
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: just made it really soft like grunt, and they both

1043
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: turned and came right to the tree and I shot

1044
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: the gun point at twelve yards. So so yeah, I

1045
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 1: rattled in Michigan. I've I've shot several bucks that make

1046
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: book in of the thirty one, I've shot several of

1047
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: that make book in Michigan by rattling them in or

1048
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: or grunting them in. That's not the norm, though I'd say,

1049
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, maybe six or seven of them

1050
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 1: I've actually used calls, but most of them are you know,

1051
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: I am hunting spots on the merits of the location,

1052
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, their destination locations, of their interiors of betting areas,

1053
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: and I hunt them according to the merits that I

1054
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: chose them for, and I don't like to make any alterations.

1055
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: I want the deer to come in naturally. That's why

1056
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: I picked that location. So I will never do any

1057
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: type of a tactic on the first hunt at a

1058
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: location for that year I want. I want the location

1059
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: to work on the merits I chose it for. I

1060
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: don't want to boog it up by maybe you know,

1061
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: maybe maybe when I decide to do a rattle sequence

1062
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna do it like a half hour or

1063
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: four dark, maybe that buck is transitioning to the spot

1064
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: and he doesn't like the way I did it, you know,

1065
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: and they got to be in the right frame of

1066
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: mind through fond of that stuff. In Michigan, it's not

1067
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 1: like out West. So you know, I'm not gonna booger

1068
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: a destination location. I'm not going to booger it up

1069
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: with doing tactics on my first hunt, But if I

1070
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: hunt there maybe a couple of times, let's say during

1071
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: Let's say it's during the rut phases, and I hunt

1072
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: a really hot location and it's a primary scrape area

1073
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: or it's a feeding location where there's a lot of

1074
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: dough activity, and I hunt it and I don't see

1075
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: anything other than maybe a spike corner or four pointer

1076
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: and two dolls. You know, if the sign is that hot,

1077
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: there's an excellent chance that the buck that I'm after.

1078
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: If I know there's some mature buck sign there because

1079
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: the rubs are tall, but the buck I'm after is

1080
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: with a hot dog, you know, he's he could be

1081
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: doped up. So I'm gonna hunt that maybe two or

1082
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: three hunts in a row, and maybe on the second evening.

1083
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: If I own it the next morning, then I on

1084
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: it to the next evening. If I don't see anything

1085
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: half hour or four dark, I may do a rattle sequence,

1086
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: you know, a sparring sequence, or you know, adults and

1087
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: dough beliefs or something to try and bring something in.

1088
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: But you know, because a lot of times during the

1089
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: rock phases, a location will warrant you to hunt it

1090
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: several times in a row, because the buck that actually

1091
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: left that fine maybe with hot dough during the time

1092
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: you're in that tree, but you know, once her twenty

1093
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: eight hour thirty two hour cycles overready's gonna start looking

1094
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: for the next doe, and then that that time he

1095
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: may come to that spot, you know, in search of

1096
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: the next est stuff. A lot of the stuff you

1097
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: just talked about is kind of all influenced by hunting pressure, right,

1098
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: Like whether or not you're in a call and spil

1099
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: like Michigan or rattle and spolic Michigan's, it's because of

1100
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: hunting pressure impacts. Yeah. So so here's something that I've

1101
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: wondered about. I you tell me if you think differently

1102
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: in this, but I think that today there are more

1103
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: very well educated bow hunters in the woods than ever before. Right,

1104
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: You've you've got all your great books out there, there's podcasts,

1105
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: there's websites, there's magazines. There's a lot of people that

1106
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: not even just the V stuff, right, there's TV stuff

1107
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: for a long time, but now there's a lot of

1108
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: information out there about how to kill bucks in real

1109
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: world scenarios, not like TV. So there's a lot of

1110
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: guys that understand hunting pressure there's a lot of people

1111
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: that know how to get into places where bucks will

1112
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: move in daylight, even in heavily pressured states. So, given

1113
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: the fact that there's more hunters hunting this kind of

1114
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: way that are relatively savvy, is there anything you're doing

1115
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: differently now than you did ten years ago, Let's say,

1116
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: given the fact that there's more guys and girls out

1117
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: there hunting the eber Heart way. Uh No, I'm still

1118
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: kind of hunting the same way. But the last two

1119
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: years I haven't killed anything in Michigan. I haven't seen

1120
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: them bucket Michigan. So but you know, a lot, even

1121
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: back in the two thousand's and the ninth and then

1122
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: in the nineties, you know, there were there was always

1123
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:50,959
Speaker 1: a year or two here and there that I didn't

1124
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: kill something. So but I'm still hunting in the exact

1125
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: same way. There's there are certain things I don't do

1126
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: now that I used to do. And first book, I

1127
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: had a whole chapter on staging areas and I've kind

1128
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: of totally given that up. You know, staging areas worked

1129
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: great if you're hunting. Staging areas out west where a

1130
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: big buck will actually get up during daylight hours and

1131
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: move out to some peripheral area where you know that

1132
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: he could potentially intercept those going out into a feeding location.

1133
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: But I've just found in Michigan that mature bucks not

1134
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: going to get up and make that daytime movement because

1135
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: it's just too vulnerable to go on stage where those

1136
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: may go by in the in the evening, or stage

1137
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: in the morning where those may come by after daylight,

1138
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: and then if nothing came by of interest, he has

1139
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: to physically get up and move to a betting area

1140
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: and be vulnerable making that movement. So I don't I

1141
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: don't hunt staging areas in Michigan anymore. They just haven't

1142
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: worked out for me on mature bucks. Interesting, you just

1143
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: mentioned that the last two years you haven't seen a

1144
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: single pope and young buck, and I know that you're

1145
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: after or that kind of caliber buck, and that I'm

1146
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: very interested to hear how you handle that scenario itself,

1147
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: Like what happens when hunt after hunt after hunt across

1148
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: all these different places you're going to you're not seeing

1149
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: a single target buck. What what did you do in

1150
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: that scenario? Do you end up going to new property

1151
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: after new property after new property just trying to figure

1152
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: something out or do you hunker down in your best

1153
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: spot during the rut because you know eventually one has

1154
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 1: to come through? Do you not sleep for two weeks

1155
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: at a time because you're so stressed about it. I'm

1156
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: just wondering, how do how do you tactically and mentally

1157
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 1: handle that? That's funny, That's so funny. No, I don't

1158
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: get I don't get stressed about it anymore. I'm too

1159
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: old for that. I I used to. I mean I

1160
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: used to as like, God, I'm not killing anything. I

1161
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: gotta get out there more more frequently. And I used to.

1162
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 1: I used to actually start arguments with my wife to

1163
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: give me a reason to go out hunting. I'm gonna

1164
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: go out hunting. I'm serious, I did, I do. I

1165
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: don't stress about that anymore. Um, if things don't work out,

1166
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: they don't work out. And yeah, you know, I feel

1167
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: like I'm a figure in the hunting industry and and

1168
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of embarrassing not to kill something. But I'm

1169
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: also a realist and most people know I won't hunt leases,

1170
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: I won't hunt manage properties. I just will not do

1171
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: that because I preach about hunting pre permission properties and

1172
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: public lands. So there's gonna be seasons when you shouldn't

1173
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: be successful. You can't if you're not in that type

1174
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: of property, you can't be successful every year. You just

1175
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: can't do it. It's impossible if you're in a pressured

1176
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: state like we are. Speaking of public. Then let's let's

1177
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: let's run one more public scenario by you. And this

1178
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: is one that I know you've talked a little bit

1179
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: about the past, and some of the things you mentioned

1180
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: already are probably applicable, but I just want to hear

1181
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: exactly what you do. Let's say, for whatever reason you

1182
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: have to go to piece of public land for your

1183
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: runt hunt's let's say it's out of state run hunt

1184
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: and you haven't been able to ever be on this

1185
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: property before. You've got five days? What do you do

1186
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: in that first day? Is that a full day scout?

1187
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: Is that a little bit scout during midday instead of

1188
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: stand hunt that night? What's what's day one of your

1189
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: five days? Brand new public peace during the rent scouting

1190
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: handed down? To blow off? First day to scout. I

1191
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: want to have at least at least two, three or

1192
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: four locations ready and then um, then I don't feel

1193
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: like I'm hunting backwards even if it's a five day hunt,

1194
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: I got four days day. Actually do hunting where I've

1195
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: got preset locations, you know, locations that are ready to go.

1196
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: I should say, they may not only have the stuff

1197
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: in them, but but I know where they are and

1198
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: I can go to them. Um. And I never, I

1199
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: have never, ever in my life when I go out

1200
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: of state, I've never went and pre scout of them. Ever.

1201
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: They are all locations where i'd go and I scout

1202
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: them and then I hunt. So, UM, I don't go.

1203
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: I don't go pre scout anything. Now obviously, you know,

1204
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: when I'm going to Kansas, I got drawn for Kansas

1205
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: this year, I'm hunting places that I've hunted before, so

1206
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: I don't really have to scout them. I just have

1207
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: to go, you know, prep prep those locations again. But

1208
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: if I'm going to a brand new piece of property

1209
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: public or whatever, um, out of state, Yeah, I do

1210
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: not do any pre scouting on a pre on a

1211
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: trip prior to when I'm going hunting. And and it's

1212
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: been kind of interesting because it's it's worked well for me. Um,

1213
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: you know. And I went to Ohio one time and

1214
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: shot up about a hundred ten point and It was

1215
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: kind of interesting because I was gonna be a five

1216
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: day hunt, and when I scouted it the first day,

1217
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: the property was just laid out where there was no

1218
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: way I could hunt this property in the morning without

1219
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: spooking deer because to go on the property I had

1220
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: to go through areas where deer would potentially defeating. So

1221
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 1: I only had five days to hunt. I blew off

1222
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,959
Speaker 1: the first day, prepped two locations, and now I got

1223
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: four days left, and I'm blowing off morning. So I

1224
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 1: got four sis and they're all evening and thank god,

1225
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: I shot this under fifty inch gen point on the

1226
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: second evening of those four days I had left to hunt.

1227
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: So I grew up mornings. All I would do on

1228
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 1: morning entries would be spooking deer. Was there any way

1229
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: to use those mornings in a in a positive way,

1230
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: Like did you glass or anything? Were able to get

1231
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: anything out of your mornings? Or is it literally because

1232
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: of the setup, you just got to stay out and

1233
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: and put all your cards into the evening um Because

1234
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: of what you described, I felt very good when I

1235
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: scouted that. I when I scouted I I spooked deer.

1236
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: You know, I spoked that a deer that day, but

1237
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: I felt really really good about the two locations that

1238
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: I prepped that No, I didn't go out and glass

1239
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: the next morning or anything, because I'm not gonna hunt morning,

1240
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: so that morning movement wouldn't really mean anything to me anyway.

1241
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: And then there was another time in Ohio which I

1242
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: didn't kill anything. UM. And this was on a parcel

1243
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: and I went down there in mid December. The other

1244
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: one was in December. Never snow on the ground when

1245
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: I shot that hundred fifty or that was after their

1246
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: gun season ended. Um. The other one was also after

1247
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: gun season, and I went in and I I made

1248
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 1: a big mistake because I usually look at the weather

1249
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: when I go out of state, especially if I'm going

1250
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: in December, and I usually try to go in there

1251
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: snow on the ground, fresh snow, so I'm looking at

1252
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: sign made within the last twenty four hours. UM, And

1253
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: this time I didn't. I went and there was no

1254
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: snow on the ground, but it was getting down into

1255
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: the low twenties at night, and the leaves were just

1256
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: super super crispy. And I prepped a couple of locations

1257
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: in the first morning I went in. I mean, I

1258
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 1: just I spooked deer quarter mile away get running through

1259
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: the wood, and so again I totally blew off the mornings.

1260
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: But I did something really unique on this hunt. Even

1261
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: though I didn't kill anything, I learned something. And this

1262
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: was just a few years ago. Um after I blew

1263
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: all those deer out of there. Every morning after that

1264
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: I went, I slept in and I got up about

1265
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: eight o'clock and I went to my two locations and

1266
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: I actually walked into the tree that I was gonna

1267
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: hunt in the evening. And I did this early in

1268
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: the morning because the deer even on my evening entry.

1269
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: The first evening I I spooked year betted within like

1270
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: two hundred yards of the tree I was gonna hunt

1271
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: because the leaves were so noisy. So I went into

1272
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: both of my locations from then on about eight o'clock

1273
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: between eight and nine in the morning, and I spooked

1274
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: gear each time, and I could hear them, you know,

1275
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: I could see the flags and they ran like three

1276
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: eighths of a mile away before they went into the

1277
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 1: betting area. But then when I actually hunted in the evenings,

1278
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: I didn't have to worry about my entry because I

1279
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: wasn't spooking deer with my evening entry because I had

1280
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 1: already spooked him out early in the morning. Yet the deer,

1281
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: it was such a long gap between when I spooked

1282
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 1: him and the evening hunt that they were filtering back

1283
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 1: out from that distant betting area and they were actually

1284
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: going by me, you know, in the evening before dark.

1285
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 1: And the biggest buck I saw was a hundred ten

1286
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: injury and I didn't shoot it, so I didn't kill anything.

1287
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 1: But I learned something about, you know, spooking deer with

1288
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: the morning entry really early, so that they would still

1289
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: filter back out in the evening, but they were far

1290
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: enough where my evening entry to that location and didn't spook. Dear,

1291
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 1: do you kind of understand what I'm saying? I do

1292
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: I follow you exactly? Have you ever would is it?

1293
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: Is that something you would do again in a future

1294
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: scenario then if you had that type of deal, even

1295
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 1: if it's a place you know, well yeah, yeah, absolutely,

1296
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: But to go on and out of state hunt again,

1297
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: I would never ever go out of state again without

1298
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: looking at the weather and making sure there was snow

1299
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: on the ground or else it was going to be

1300
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: above thirty five degrees. Speaking of your out of state stuff,

1301
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned how a lot of your out of state

1302
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 1: scouting as trail camera focused. Now, Um, yeah, can you

1303
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 1: has there been an evolution of your trail camera strategy

1304
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,600
Speaker 1: at all over the last five six years, because I

1305
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 1: know early on, you know, some of the things you

1306
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: were you were, you weren't as into them. Now it

1307
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: seems like, are you maybe a little bit more and

1308
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: have you changed what you do or how you do

1309
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 1: it so that it works better for you in that

1310
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: scenario where or is it about the same. I still

1311
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: don't use motion cameras in Michigan, you know, I may

1312
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: put one out, you know, one or aout one year.

1313
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: The last two years, I haven't had any trail cameras.

1314
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: But when I'm out of state, I have found that

1315
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 1: I can actually put trail cameras out on all the

1316
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: locations and they're all in pinch points or whether it's

1317
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: scrape areas and where I'm when I'm going to Kansas

1318
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 1: o Iowa, and I have found I can actually visit

1319
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 1: the cameras and it doesn't affect gear movements. Um, it

1320
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: just doesn't bother those gear out there. You know, I

1321
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: can check the cameras and if if I'm taking my

1322
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: two boys now, John and Joe. And you know, we'll

1323
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: usually have a dozen locations prepped and they all have cameras.

1324
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: Will check every damn camera during the during the middle

1325
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 1: of the day out there. You don't have to hunt

1326
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: all day because it's not necessary. The dear the big

1327
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: bucks moving the mornings and the evenings, just like all

1328
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: the other deer. So it's just it's just a lot easier.

1329
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: So we check the cameras and we hunt according to

1330
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: what's on the cameras. And it seems like checking the

1331
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,759
Speaker 1: cameras doesn't affect the deer traffic at the location in Michigan.

1332
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: You know, I it. I could see putting out cameras

1333
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 1: where they that internet wise back to your phones or

1334
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: your computer, um, where you don't have to make a

1335
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: physical visit an intrusion. Um. But because my properties are

1336
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 1: so far away from where I live, and there's you know,

1337
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different public lands, I can't afford

1338
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: to put those out. They'll just get stolen, and those

1339
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: stuckers are expensive, so I don't do that. But out

1340
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: of state, yeah, I use cameras of the time. Interesting,

1341
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 1: all right, John, I know you've got to run here soon. UM,

1342
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna give this one last question and then

1343
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: I'll let you get out of here. Here's the scenario.

1344
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,680
Speaker 1: Let's say I rule the world. I'm in control of

1345
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: the world, I'm in control of your life, and I'm

1346
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: a real jerk, and I'm gonna put you in a

1347
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: tough position here. I'm going to tell you that I'm

1348
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: going to take away your ability to deer hunt for

1349
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 1: the next ten years. You lose your hunting rights, you

1350
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: lose your bow, You your shoulder can't pull back a bow,

1351
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 1: and there's no other options. I'm taking it away. You

1352
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 1: can't deer hunt for the next ten years unless unless

1353
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: you kill a three and a half year old buck

1354
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 1: or older this year in a heavily pressure state like Michigan.

1355
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:10,720
Speaker 1: But I'm only gonna give you one day to do it.

1356
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 1: You get one day this year to kill that three

1357
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 1: and a half year old or older. What I want

1358
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: to know is what day of the year are you're

1359
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: gonna pick for your one hunt this year. That's a

1360
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: lot of high stakes on this hunt. What's the day

1361
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: and what is the tree stand? You pick? Described the spot,

1362
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 1: what's your you know, everything matters for this hunt? Described

1363
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: the spot? In the day you're gonna choose to put

1364
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 1: it all out there. It's gonna be November one, and

1365
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be in the interior of a five

1366
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: acre betting area or possibly in all days fit in

1367
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 1: a good location with heavy security transition cover between two

1368
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: betting areas on November one, where a buck's gonna sund

1369
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: check you know, betting area to betting areas as long

1370
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 1: as they've got security covered for you know, early ester STOs.

1371
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: November one is pre rock um. You know death in Michigan,

1372
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,560
Speaker 1: pre ruts definitely the best time to hunt, you know,

1373
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: October through let's say November five, because the mature bucks

1374
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: are still typically on some form of a routine. You know,

1375
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: they're checking their primary scrape areas, are looking for those

1376
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: early ester STOs. But in Michigan there's so few mature

1377
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 1: dominant bucks um that during the peak run they're typically

1378
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: dot up, so you know, you just don't get as

1379
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 1: many opportunities during peak run. But that November first time frame,

1380
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: if I were in a relatively small betting area, UM,

1381
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: and I was in a decent tree and I had

1382
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, shooting lanes and five directions like you know,

1383
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: spokes down a wheel. That's probably where i'd be because

1384
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:00,759
Speaker 1: they're gonna be in there surgeon for those early esterus

1385
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 1: those and if there's if there with a possible early

1386
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 1: esterus though, they're gonna push him down into the betting

1387
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: areas to do their breeding. And as you well know,

1388
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: during those breeding cycles, they'll move around within the betting area.

1389
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: You know, he'll breed her and they'll she'll bed down.

1390
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: He may stand up next to her for twenty minutes

1391
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: or the half hour, and then you know he'll go

1392
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 1: nudge her and she she may get up and run

1393
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: thirty forty yards and then he'll breed her again. Um,

1394
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: So they move around in the betting areas and it's

1395
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 1: during the daylight hours, so that I feel like that

1396
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: would be probably my best opportunity. And what what does

1397
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: that ideal betting area look like? Because there's a lot

1398
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: of different scenarios. It could be a cattail marsh, It

1399
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,600
Speaker 1: could be like a red oz or dogwood thicket. It

1400
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 1: could be you know, young cedars. Like if you had

1401
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 1: to paint that perfect betting area for this scenario, what

1402
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 1: would that look like? My perfect bet are betting area

1403
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:56,919
Speaker 1: would be a grove of spruce trees with some scattered

1404
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: mature timber in it. Um. Spruce trees are awesome for

1405
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 1: betting because spruce trees grow to the ground. They always

1406
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: stayed tight to the ground. Yet white pines, red pines, uh,

1407
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 1: cedar trees, you know, they have openings underneath them. They

1408
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: where as they mature, the branches below them die. So

1409
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:19,639
Speaker 1: spruce trees with scattered timber in it. Because spruce trees,

1410
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 1: because you know, they have a form at the bottom. Uh,

1411
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: there's always gonna be gaps between the trees. So if

1412
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: you find an area you know, a little opening and

1413
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: and grow up with spruce with some open timber or

1414
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: something like that, uh, typically there's gonna be converging runways

1415
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 1: in some form of an opening because it's path the

1416
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: least resistance, and that would be that would be my

1417
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 1: perfect scenario. And also in an area like that where

1418
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: I know deer betting in it, and would also be

1419
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 1: a great place to do a little sparring sequence. Here

1420
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: in their couple of couple they've been all days sit

1421
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 1: and the you know, a couple of two or three

1422
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 1: times during the day I do a sparring sequence or

1423
01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: possibly even some uh cold, Doug Leaf calls m Well,

1424
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: I like the sound of it. John. I I'm betting

1425
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: that you'll get your hunting rights the next ten years

1426
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: because that sounds like a good scenario. So I think

1427
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: you'll be with your skill set and experience in that

1428
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: location on November one. I believe in you. I've stop

1429
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 1: the last two years. This this will be your year, John,

1430
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: I really, I really appreciate taking the time to do this. Um.

1431
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: I know you've got some cool stuff coming out on YouTube.

1432
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: You're doing a whole bunch of neat things. Where can

1433
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 1: people go these days to find your latest work? Well,

1434
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: we just started a YouTube channel. It's called eber Heart's Outdoors.

1435
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I'm most excited about. And

1436
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 1: other than that, my website is uh www dot dear

1437
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: dash John dot com. Um, but the YouTube thing is

1438
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: what I'm probably most excited about right now. Eber Heart's

1439
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: out Doors gonna be a lot of good information coming

1440
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 1: out on that in the next few months. I'm looking

1441
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: forward to. The videos I've seen so far have been great,

1442
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: so I'll definitely be keeping tabs on it. And uh, John,

1443
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I hope I can convince you

1444
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 1: to keep on doing these at least yearly like we've

1445
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 1: been doing because I always learned something. I love it.

1446
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: Thanks Marks for the opportunity. I really appreciate them. Good

1447
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 1: luck everybody out there. Yes, thank you, John eight. One

1448
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,680
Speaker 1: more thing that John forgot to mention but later did

1449
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 1: tell me that he said I could share with you

1450
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: is that there is an eber Heart's signature saddle coming

1451
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: out in August, sold through Tethered Tethered Saddles or what

1452
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:39,719
Speaker 1: I run. I love them. They've got a special design

1453
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 1: now specifically with eber Hearts input. It's a two panel

1454
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 1: seat system. You're gonna have to stay tuned to hear

1455
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,840
Speaker 1: more soon. Definitely be checking out what Tether's got coming out.

1456
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure they will give some announcements soon, but it

1457
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: looks pretty awesome. Check out eber Heart's signature saddle. And

1458
01:17:56,080 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: with that said, hopefully you feel the same way as

1459
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: I do, which is that that was a pretty fun

1460
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: way to talk to a great deer hunter. I think

1461
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep doing this. I think we're gonna bring

1462
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 1: on some other guys that we've talked to in the

1463
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: past that we thought we know well. But I'm gonna

1464
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 1: put them in some tough situations. I'll put maybe some

1465
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: of the same questions, maybe a bunch of new questions

1466
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 1: like this, and see what they would do. What would

1467
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, what would Dan Infalt do, What would

1468
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 1: Mark Drury do? What would what would Dan Johnson do?

1469
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: Now there's a question, So stay tuned for those episodes

1470
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: in the future. Hopefully, I hope, I hope You're hunting

1471
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 1: season preparations would come along well, and I think we

1472
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 1: should shut it down now. So thank you so much

1473
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 1: for listening, thanks for being a part of this community,

1474
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 1: and until next time, stay wired to hun