WEBVTT - David Goggin & Martin Porter 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:13.760 Welcome, Come, Welcome back to Bob Leftstats Podcast. My guests 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.959 today are Martin Porter and David Gogin, who've written the 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:23.120 book Buzzed Me In Inside the Record Plant Studios. Gentlemen, 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.040 what was the inspiration for this book? 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.760 Chris Stone Christone was here for inspiration of this book. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:30.920 He was a character and he was one of the founders. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.680 And not only did I know him, you know, twenty 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.800 twenty years ago, but now maybe about forty five years ago. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.600 It's when we met when I was a journalist writing 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.559 writing about recording studios, and the guy could tell a 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.519 story and we would talk and he would talk and 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.640 I would and I would say, Chris, someday you gotta 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:53.840 write a story. And Chris would say, Marty, I'm never 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:55.760 writing a story. This is this is going to the 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:57.360 grave with me. These stories are go to the grave. 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.720 That was Everything took place in our record plan was private, 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.440 and we probably promised absolute privacy to our customers. And 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.000 I kept after him. I'm a journalist. I just kept 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.679 after him, after and after him. And then then about 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.319 ten years ago, you know, I was in a different 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.480 world and doing different things, and Chris was still working, 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.160 you know, he was always coming up with new ideas, 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.319 and suddenly he started soften and he had a house 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.640 in Hancock Park, and I went to visit him in 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.000 LA and we sat in the backyard. He always mixed 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.960 a great drink, and he said, and there was his buddy, David. 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.800 David Goggin and David and I know each other for years. 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.240 David was not only a columnist in the recording business 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.880 when I was an editor and a publisher, but he 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.600 and Stone were buddies, and he worked for Stone, and 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:46.720 Stone put us together. He said, all right, you know 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.600 what it's time, I'll write the book, right, But you 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.760 guys worked together, so you know, this book got published. 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.720 A Stone is long past but died in what twenty sixteen, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.440 But we're the deal that Stone put together from the 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:02.000 grave basically. 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.360 Okay, David, how did you know Stone? 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:14.639 I first met Stone in the early eighties and I 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.680 just come to Los Angeles from a I was running 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:22.320 a recording studio down in Newport Beach, and we got 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.760 to know each other. I think he asked me to, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.440 you know, see if I could do some promotion for 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.560 something that he was doing at the studio, and we 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.440 did that for a while. He's the only person who 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.040 ever yelled at me because I put out a press 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.960 release or something a story without checking with him. It 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.280 didn't cause any problems, but he I learned a lot 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:50.919 about Stone at that point, and then around nineteen eighty four, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.760 he decided that they wanted to move the studio and 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:01.040 he asked me to reassure the public and the artists 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.240 and the musicians and the engineers that the story would 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.880 continue at the new record plan. So we together worked 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:14.120 on a grand finale. We had a big party in 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:20.200 December of eighty five. I dubbed it the Last Cham. 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.720 Many of the artists who had been there in the 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:28.320 past twenty fifteen years came. It was a concert with 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:34.440 Joe Walsh and Stephen Stills, al Cooper. The place was 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.160 just packed with you can imagine hundreds of people who 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:42.440 would work there. And then the groundbreaking took place and 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:48.640 the studio moved someplace else on Sycamore. So that's where 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.600 we started, and then I continued working with him until 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:57.520 he cashed out and sold it to Chrysalis and George Martin. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.520 I photographed the guys having dinner and Stone was a 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.360 happy man. But he came up with a bunch of 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.600 other projects that he wanted to do, and I ended 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.480 I got roped into the World Studio Group, and I 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.479 and SPARS and a bunch of other industry organizations, and 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.720 we became friends. And he taught me how to make 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:20.360 a martini. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.000 Okay, so Chris Stones put the two of you together. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:26.200 What's the next step? 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:29.080 Take it away, Marty. 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.000 Yeah. The next step was that we started talking to him. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.240 And David's based in LA. I was in La in 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.000 those days once a week. I'm a New Yorker, and 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:40.839 we just would spend time with him, and he would 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.720 tell stories of Stone. You know, you know, not only 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.560 could mix martini, but he could but he could talk. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.720 And he had a couple of things that were important 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.440 were important to him. Okay. One, I didn't know he 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.400 had a partner in the early days. I didn't even 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.800 know that what the deal was because I had met 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.640 him after his partner, Gary Calgrin, passed away, so I 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.680 never knew that. So he said, listen, you know what 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.880 the story's not about me. Here's the deal, right, if 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.760 you're going to write a book, I'll tell you. I'll 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:09.880 give you the framework for the story. I'll give you 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:11.960 the outline. I'll give you some great stories never been 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.440 told before. But you've got to not only make sure 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.880 that Gary is recognized and that people know who Gary 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.279 Calger was and Gary cut Kelger and was not only 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.360 the visionary, the engineer, but you know, but the co founder. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.919 You got to make sure that people know who Gary was. 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.240 But also these albums, this studio doesn't didn't happen without 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.720 every everybody. So you got to get on the phone 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:36.600 and talk to other people. This can't be the Chris 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.080 Stone story. This has got to be the Record Plan story. 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.479 And the Record Plant story includes everybody, from the artists 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.800 to the producers, to the engineers, the assistant engineers, to 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.640 the truck drivers, the studio managers, the administrators. Talk to 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.600 as many people as you can, and that was Stone's goal. 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:57.080 So we just started talking and we talked. Ten years later, 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.120 we kept talking and already putting it together. So that 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.360 was the next step. It was just a lot of stories, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.800 and yeah, there were people who didn't want to speak. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.119 They said it was private, they said that. You know, listen, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.960 you know the purpose of Record Plant was there was 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.040 a closed doors there with locked doors. We didn't want 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.520 to you know, we didn't want to tell those stories. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.280 But suddenly as people time went on, people started talking. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.040 And the more people talk, the more people shared, the 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.000 more open they were. And Stone also had a lot 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.320 of influence. Stone had a lot, you know, people trusted Stone, 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.600 they trusted us and to tell the real story. And gradually, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.159 over time the stories were told and more people shared 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:39.719 their experiences. 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.240 How many people said, I got to tell you this story, 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.119 but you can't include it in the book. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.440 Oh, I don't know. That must be ten or twenty. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.080 But they told us as much, and I just said, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.320 let's keep talking. And then they say, well, let's not, 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:04.039 let's out. I'd like to mention also that this period 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:09.960 twenty fourteen before Stone's death. In twenty sixteen, Party and 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.160 I got the idea that we were trying to get 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.680 the Hall of Fame Tech Award at the NAM Show, 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.760 and so we started getting in touch with people to 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:24.800 participate in that. And Stone made his patio in his 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.800 place in Los Angeles Hancock Park available, so we had 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:34.280 people come in, we filmed them, and it was kind 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.520 of a tough thing. Part of it was reconnecting with 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.360 Gary Calgrin's widow, who had not been in touch with 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.120 the Stones for many many years. I'm not saying they 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.360 were ill feelings, but I was involved in kind of 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:58.239 bringing people together again for this Tech Award. They shot 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:04.120 a movie five that movie, we rallied for this award 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.200 and we got it and there was a big event 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:14.920 at NAM and I interviewed before the event for this award, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:22.360 Bill Simsic, producer of the Hotel California, and Joe Walsh, 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.640 and they told stories and Stone was in the audience. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:31.280 And at that at the beginning, Joe Walsh and Stone 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.520 had not seen each other for quite a while. There 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:40.559 was a rift not emotionally but for other reasons that 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.120 had to separate these two guys. But it was all 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.800 resolved and Joe jumped off the stage and came over 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:55.640 and bent over and hugged Chris Stone. And an hour 0:08:55.760 --> 0:09:02.440 later Stone got the award and Calgrin got it posthumously 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.720 and it was presented by Simsic producer and Joe Wolfsh 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:13.040 So that actually accelerated the contact with people to rally 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:17.719 the groups of people that the individuals and the companies 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.480 and all the people that had worked for them at 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.840 Record Plan and then from there it was a lengthy 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.680 process tracking some of these people down. But I think 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.120 we got to a lot of people, some of them 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:39.600 who are no longer with us. So we were able 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.440 to scramble and get some stories from people that you 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:44.480 can't get anymore. 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:50.079 Okay, is this a labor of love or is this 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.240 something you actually said, Well, you know, this could catch on. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:53.480 I could make some money here. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.480 It wasn't about the money. No, We've got hopes. We 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.720 think the result is worthy of, you know, a huge 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:05.679 media empire. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.000 Listen, Let's let's be honest. There's not a lot of 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.360 money in books. You don't spent ten years on a 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.760 book like this and expect to get rich. We put 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.760 a lot of time and money into it as well. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:20.240 It came. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.000 You know, remember this was a part of my life 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.400 and a big part of David's life for even longer. 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.120 You know, in the late seventies, when I was editing 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.640 a trade magazine called Proson News, I wasn't really aware 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.199 that I was in a very special time, in this 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.280 very special place. And as sort of as you get 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.880 older and as time goes on, I realized, wait a minute, 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.800 you know, there was something there. There was something bigger 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:47.720 than just a job writing interviewing studio owners and engineers 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.640 and producers. It was, you know, it was a special time. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:56.520 And more I look back on it, you know, I 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.960 felt a bit of an obligation, a bit of a 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.480 you know, a feeling that you know what I was. 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.040 I had an obligation to tell some of these stories 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.600 to people and to really share it, because you know, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.199 people didn't. If you ask people, you know, do you 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.680 know any recording studios, they'll say, yeah, I've heard, I 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.679 know Abbey Road. You know, not a lot of studios 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.000 are known by were named by a beatle or had 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.120 an album named after it. And then you ask them 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.040 what else do you know? They know elect electric ladies studios, 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.360 They know that, right, But then you go any deeper. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.040 You got to be pretty tweeked out and pretty nerdy 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.760 to no recording. So is then you start talking about 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.000 the age of analogue, and you're talking about what it 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.800 was like in those days and how it worked and people. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.440 I started hoping, and I realized, you know what, that 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.640 was a special time, and you know what, I was 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.560 there and I know people who were there, and so 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:50.920 it was a labor of love and it still was 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.040 a labor love. We're not done, you know. Yeah, do 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.480 we hope it turns into something bigger? Yeah, we want 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.680 to tell our story in the biggest possible way. But 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.400 and we're happy to that people like you want to 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.640 share share it with your audience. But it is a 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.960 labor love and that's my wife unless she gave up 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.760 a lot of time for us doing interviews, David me 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.719 on interviews and a lot of time writing this thing. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.280 Okay, Well, now that the book is out, are you 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.000 finding that people are reacting coming out of the woodwork 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.200 and more people know we're interested or is it an 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.080 uphill climb to make people aware of the record plan 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:27.720 in your book? 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.760 Marty, I think you can answer this. But we've got 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.200 this book started out called record Plant Diaries for reasons 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.079 that we will get into maybe maybe not. We decided 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.400 that it was a better title, buzz me in, and 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:52.200 we have a Facebook page. But it's just growing what 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.880 are they called greatly every week with new followers and 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.079 people coming out of the woodwork and asking questions and 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.560 then saying, oh, I was there, you know, and it's 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:09.160 it's become quite the rallying cry for people. So many 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.360 people we try to figure out how many people worked 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.319 at the Record plan and in its history, and it 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.439 must be among the thousands, and some of them started 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:22.559 out cleaning toilets and today are billionaires. So that's that 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.240 was the proving ground for people. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.000 I got to stop you for a second because we're 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.040 all prone to hyperbole. Billion dollars, there's a lot of money. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.640 Can you tell me about somebody who really started cleaning toilets? 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:37.679 Was that successful? 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.200 Well? I don't, I don't know if well, listen, the 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.480 only billionaire that I know about who worked the record 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.800 was Jimmy Ivan, right, right, did Jimmy did Jimmy? Did 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.199 Jimmy start cleaning toilets? I know we started as a 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:56.040 runner a general. I know Jack Douglas started as janitor. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.920 I'm not as sure exactly if that meant putting up 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.600 in the toilet and wiping it out, wiping out the bowl. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.280 But you know what they did, some of they did 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.800 some pretty damn menial, crappy jobs. Right. So the only 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.560 billionaire that I do know is who started a record 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.120 plant was Jimmy Shoes IV. 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.960 Okay, those inside know that he was called Jimmy Shoes. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.400 Can you explain why. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.720 He had fancy shoes and that's where all his money went, 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.400 the small amount he was making as a general. I 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.240 love that term too. Uh. We called them runners, we 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.560 called them gophers, all sorts of things. But he was 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.760 a general. He started out at the bottom. He was 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:47.040 a pretty uh you know, feisty kid. When you know 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.960 his first one of his first big gigs was with 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:55.800 with John Lennon, and that was the lost weekend. He'd 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.960 never lived, stayed in a hotel. He'd never been in 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.760 an airplane. He ends up flying to Los Angeles and 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:10.240 staying at the Beverly Hilton and because Beverly Hills Hotel. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.040 And he attributes his success as a businessman to the 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.560 way record plant was run. And that was run by 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:24.280 Chris Stone and Gary Calgren and Roy Cicala, New York. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.160 Of course, they used to have buttons made that said 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:34.880 j F J jump for your job. The pressure was 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.960 on if you were in, if you were the second engineer, 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:39.640 and all you had to do was push the tape 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:44.840 machine button. Your job was on the line every minute. 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.200 They knew that these clients were the ones that were 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:53.080 staying around the clock, and there were no clocks at 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:53.960 their record plant. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.520 Listen, they had a really good gig going the Stone 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.760 and Calgrin and Sicala, they knew one thing. There were 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.880 a lot of young kids who would work cheap or 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.120 free just to get in the door, to get close 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.720 to the artists. Right. And so when you have that 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.640 opportunity and you're an entrepreneur and you're running a business 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.920 and you have all this young hungry talent that are 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.400 working around the clock just to work in a recording studio. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.200 What an opportunity from a business standpoint. And you know what, 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.600 you got to test those kids out. You got to 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.920 push those kids to the limit. And you know what, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.400 some of them don't make it. Most of them don't 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.560 make it, but some of them do make it. And 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.400 that was that was the secret sauce of Record Plant 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.040 where those young kids who came in the door Kelgrin, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.240 you know, Calgrin kid found out an amazing thing is 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.040 one thing to run a recording So you need fancy equipment, 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.920 You needed big consoles, you needed big tape machines, you 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.320 needed expensive microphones. What you really needed was a kid 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.640 who knew how to wheel a hammer and build shit. Right. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.280 They needed to build gobos, They needed to tear down 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.840 walls to build take a door off, so you get 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.840 a piece of equipment off. So the truth of the 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.199 matter was that kids would do it. You'd had to 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.040 find a kid who was willing to do anything, and 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:22.520 there were plenty of them. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.440 Okay, just you know, there's legends of people you mentioned 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.920 who started at the bottom. How many people washed out 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:29.879 that we haven't heard of. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.000 I think most of them did. I don't have a number, 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.120 but think about it. It tough gig. You weren't making 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.040 any money. In fact, you know, in the early days, 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.280 Kelgrin had this concept that the kids would work for free. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:50.960 You know, Brooks Arthur and Phil Ramon had a studio 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.920 up up in west Chester, New York nine went four 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.119 where Bruce Springsteen worked and a lot of other artists 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.399 work where they got all these kids paying them to 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.239 be assistants. So it was you know, it was a 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.720 great time. So how many washed out? A lot of them. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.439 But the kids who stuck it out, and the kids 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.679 who worked and proved that they could serve the artist 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.600 who could had the right attitude and had ears and 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:22.359 learned could learn audio chops stayed and many became successful 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.840 and many became famous. We've talked about iveen as being 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.800 the billionaire, but not everybody was a billionaire. Some became 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.000 big artists. Todd Rumgrey was an assistant engineer in New York. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.480 So not only did some become artists, but many became 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.240 producers as well, and obviously very successful engineers. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.720 Let's start at the beginning with kelgrim One thing that 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.640 you emphasize in the book that I've never seen previously 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:54.000 is that he was a great engineer, an innovative engineer, 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.160 which he does not get credit for. Would you bring 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.399 up in the book can you tell me about that? 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.840 Well, I know Jim Keltner and he goes back to 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:09.720 the very very early days of working with Kelgrin. I 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.399 like to think of Jim Keltner as the heartbeat record 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.760 plan because he was there at the beginning, and he 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:17.720 was there till the end, and he was very close 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:23.840 to Kelgren. And you know, he speaks about the magical 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.159 ability of him, of Kelgrin at the console to be 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.880 able to rope together all these sounds, set things up 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.600 in the studio and make it happen like people were 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.919 just mesmerized at the way he he can wave his 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.480 hands over the console and move the faders and get 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.320 sounds out of what might have ended up as chaos. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.639 Well, but you know, let's start at the beginning, because 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.200 the beginning was a studio called Mayfair on Seventh Ave 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:59.200 in New York. The Summer of Love nineteen sixty seven, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.560 Algrin was working in the studio and he was working 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.760 for three bands at the same time. He was working 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.680 for lou Reed and Velvet Underground doing White Light, White Heat. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.200 He was working for Frank Zappa doing We're only needed 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.080 for the money, and he was working with Jimmy Hendrix 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:22.000 on a couple of songs. And he he could keep 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.119 not only could he keep up with the artists and 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.320 work around the clock with the arts and juggle the 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.159 egos of all those three arts. Remember Zappa and Louie 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.040 didn't like each other in those days. And be able 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.240 to juggle those two artists at the same time in 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.600 the same studio was an art form. But Kelgrin had 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.800 worked for his producer, his producer, and that we could 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.520 there should be a book, there should be a movie 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.840 about him named Tom Wilson, and Tom Wilson was block 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:51.080 book Mayfair and he was working with his two artists, 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:55.159 which were Velvet Underground, and Frank Zappa at that time. 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.960 But Kelgrin knew how to record, and his talents were 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.280 you know, remember when you're an engineer, not only do 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.399 you need to know how to get a great sound, 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.600 but you know how to stay cool, stay calm, and 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.560 just work yourself to death. And Kelgrin had an incredible 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.399 work ethic. But through Tom Wilson, and we'll hopefully we 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.359 could talk a little bit more about Tom in a moment. 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.800 Through Tom Wilson, he it did an album called sky 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:27.160 Pilot for Eric Burton, all right, and that's a famous song, 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.080 and for a lot of reasons, obviously, not only because 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.600 of its anti war theme, but because of the sounds 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.720 that he was able to provide to Eric Burton. It 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.960 was a sound called phasing, all right. If you listen 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.280 to that record, if you really want to understand music 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.720 in the late sixties, remember you're dealing with a period 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:51.200 before there were digital effects, before there was any kind 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.400 of ability to press a button and make wacky sounds, right, 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.400 there was before even synthesizers. You had to be able 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.800 to jockey the sound the analog tape machine and play 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:06.600 around with with the reels and create and create sounds 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.280 one of those sounds that had been knocking around for 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.119 years was called phasing, all right, and what what the 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.800 what the engineer would do is it would take one 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.399 of the reels and and and jockey it almost you know, 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.880 almost like a disc jockey, but with the two reels. 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:25.120 And Kalgun got really good at phasing. And the work 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.360 that he did with Eric Burden got you know, got 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.920 him a lot of attention, and not only got him 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.320 attention with with a lot of the bands in Townies 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:38.600 particularly got him attention with with Chas Chandler who was 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:43.960 managing uh managing Jimmy. And when Jimmy heard heard that work, 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.840 and when the words started spreading that this kid knew 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.120 how to phase like he did, he got a lot 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.359 of attention because remember it was it was it was 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.119 summer love, it was psychedelic period, it was crazy effect. 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.080 Getting crazy effects, whether their visual or sonic, was what 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.679 it was all about. And an engineer who could do 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.280 that like Calgrin started to getting the business. And not 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.040 only was did he become an amazing engineer, but he 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:13.680 was innovative and he was fearless and true and that 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:15.119 was that was what made him special. 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.680 We got a back up here just a little bit 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:19.840 to explain how Kilgrin met Stone. 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.760 Wait wait, wait, before we get there, when he's working 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.119 at Mayfeir, has he met Stone yet? 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.399 Yes, that was the moment actually, Dave, Okay, I just 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:30.920 want to I. 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:34.480 Want to go sideways before we come back. Tom Wilson's 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:39.520 a fascinating story. A black man in white rock and roll. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.560 It was way before there were so many images. But 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:47.280 he produced all the Bob Dylan records. He produced as 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:51.199 you say, Zappa, you know what was his special sauce? 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:56.720 Well, his special sauce was depends you talk to right, 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.879 h If you talk to some people, it was he 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.880 He was the ultimate Schmuezer if you talk to others. 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:06.920 He was a brilliant producer, what Stone told us, because 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.840 Stone knew him really well. He knew how to let 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:14.040 the artist do do their thing. He gave them room 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.639 and what what you know, But he was but the 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:20.119 thing that you know, remember he came to he was 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.879 working with Calgrin after he was already famous, right, he 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:27.040 had became famous by you know, by turning Dylan onto 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:30.560 electric you know, at Colombia. He you know, he saved 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.520 sounds of silence for Simon and Garfunkel, but you know 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:37.080 by going back in the studio and remixing it. He 0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.879 was a famous dude man. And he was a black 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:43.840 guy who was working in white rock and roll at 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:46.280 those days, which was unique. It came back to hurt 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.200 him and later in his career when he got stereotype. 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:51.879 But at that time he was hot and he was 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:55.479 not only did what he was working for, you know, 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.000 for Columbia, he went on, he did a tremendous amount 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:01.080 of folk music. Then he's then it was when he 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:05.280 was working with Zappa and working with with Uh, with 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.479 Lou Reed, he was you know, he was making some 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.840 great records. But what was amazing about when he was 0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:17.480 so well connected? So when when Stone Uh? When when 0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:20.760 Stone met Kelgren at Mayfair, when they when the two 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:24.840 of them met Kelgrin. Kelgrin had this idea that he 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.119 could build a studio. Not only could he build a 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.439 great studio that like somebody had never built before, but 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:32.560 he could get business. The way he was going to 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:35.600 get business was because Tom Wilson knew everybody in town. 0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:39.600 And it was gonna be by cutting in Wilson, by 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:41.600 giving him a piece of the action, by giving a 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:44.679 piece of the business that they knew that they were 0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:47.000 going to be able to bill studio that was not 0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:51.960 only going to uh serve Jimmy Hendrix, but was gonna 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:55.720 fill a void in the New York marketplace. And Wilson 0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:58.159 not only played a role in the history of music, 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:01.879 but certainly there wouldn't have been a record Plant without 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:04.120 without Tom Wilson. 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.680 Okay, just to stay here. It's a little different threat. 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:12.359 Once you hit the eighties, the record producers are really 0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:16.560 handsomely compensated, whereas earlier some of them worked for the label. 0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:19.280 How did it end for Tom Wilson? Did he have 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:23.399 any money? Did he burn out after his famous period? 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:26.360 What happened to him? 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.560 It's kind of a sad story. Stone told us about this. 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:32.919 I mean, it got really bad for him. And he 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:35.920 was one of the early investors when they when they 0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:39.119 formed the business of record Plant on forty fourth Street 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:42.840 in New York, Kelgrin and Stone met because their wives, 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.439 one was pregnant and one had just had a baby, 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.800 and that was the reason they had a little party 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:52.800 and Kelgrin, uh Well, Stone asked if he could come 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.119 by and see where he worked. He came in, he 0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:57.840 found out that Kelgrin was making two hundred bucks a 0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:00.320 week and he's working with those three or it is, 0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:04.120 and he said, look, you need a raise. First of all, 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:07.280 he got him a raise, and then they decided they 0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:10.720 needed one hundred grant And where's that money gonna come from? 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:15.080 There's a lot of money in those days. Stone was 0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:20.040 friends with Ankie Marty you tell the rest of the 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:21.080 Hankee story. 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:24.040 Yeah, there were four partners when record Plants started. There 0:27:24.040 --> 0:27:26.560 was Calgrin and Stone we talked about. There was Tom Wilson, 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:28.640 but none of them had the money that it took 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:32.040 to pull this off, right. But Stone had a roommate 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:36.040 named Ben Johnson from college who was who had a 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:40.680 new wife. Her name was Ankie her originally Ankie Johnson, 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:43.880 but original name before she was divorced from Charles Revson 0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:49.119 of Revlon Fame. Right. And not only did Stone worked 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:52.520 for Revlon and before that, well before he started a 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:55.639 record plant, but he knew that he knew that Ankie 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:58.760 Revson really loved the New York hip be seen. She 0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:01.960 was you know, remember she was a divorcede. She uh, 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:04.760 but she was loaded and she put her put her 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:09.440 money into interesting business ventures. One Uh that that you 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:11.560 that everybody will know was she was one of the 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:14.520 prime investors in hair, the Broadway musical Hair, and she 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.800 was making tons of money that time from this hippie world. 0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:20.680 So when Stone came to her with the idea that 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:23.399 he was going to build a recording studio, Ankie was 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:25.800 ready to write a check. She was just you know, 0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.200 why not. So it was one hundred grand to build 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:30.760 the studio. So it was the four partners and the 0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:34.199 main the main partners, the ones who owned most of 0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:39.360 the business was Ankie Revsen, uh A Johnson and uh 0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:42.880 and uh Gary Calgrin the talent. Stone was the business 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.240 brains and and Wilson was only in it for a 0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:48.880 piece so he could so he could, uh you know, 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.360 bring in the artists. But when you talked before and 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:56.640 you asked the question Bob about about Wilson, Wilson's career, 0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.520 you know, uh came to a pretty abrupt then by 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:03.680 the time we were we were into the seventies, you know, 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:08.080 its seventies. He just wasn't He was stereotyped, as you know, 0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:13.120 as a black rock and roll producer. He he had 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.280 an idea and a dream to build to do a 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:22.040 a rock opera that that never came fulfilled. It became 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:24.680 a sad story and ultimately Built died early of a 0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:30.000 massive heart attack. You know, So his career came to 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:34.360 an abrupt nd. And but boy, the early days rock 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.240 and roll wouldn't have been what it was without Tom Wilson, 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:39.040 and certainly there wouldn't have been a record plant. 0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:41.760 Okay, we're ultimately going to get to the record plant 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.560 on Third Street. Los Angeles is a giant suburb in 0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:50.480 most cases, but New Shirk is very dense. They put 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:55.000 the studio in an office building. How does that work 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.800 in terms of you know, sound reinforcement, et cetera. 0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:06.400 That's an interesting angle because Kelgrin was good at finding locations. 0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:08.280 How you're going to finance it or what are you 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:11.640 going to do with it then is a problem. But 0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:15.040 he was hanging out with Hendrix at a nightclub nearby, 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:18.160 and Hendricks wanted to have a nightclub studio. He wanted 0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:21.560 to take that atmosphere of jamming with his friends and 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:25.760 into the studio and get it recorded properly so that 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:31.640 he could continue his career as a recording artist. So 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:34.720 now's your turn, Marty. 0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:38.080 Well, remember there were studios in New York, you know, 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:42.800 but mostly they were label owned studios in those days, right, 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.600 and the times were changing, and the artists wanted freedom 0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:52.480 to work in a private space away from their corporate overlords. Right, 0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:56.840 so that you know, it was Jimmy had it. Jimmy 0:30:56.840 --> 0:30:58.720 had it. It started. It all starts with Jimmy Hendrix. 0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.240 Remember the record planning store starts with Jimmy Hendrick. It 0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:04.840 starts in New York. Hendricks had done some recording on 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:09.479 what would become Electric Electric ladyland in in England. He 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:12.720 came over to New York and he told Calgarn he 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:16.840 needed a studio to finish the album Stone Stone and 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:21.280 Calgrin already talking. The money came in from Aankee. Wilson 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:24.160 was involved, and the idea is are, okay, we got 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:27.480 to find a space. Now on the west side you're 0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:29.840 talking about the west side of Times Square right now, 0:31:30.400 --> 0:31:34.200 there was a nightclub called The Scene. Steve Paul's the Scene, 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:37.600 all right. Now. The Scene is another historic rock and 0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:44.040 roll uh a facility whatever you're wanna call location, all right, 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.520 because that's where some of the most amazing jam sessions 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:50.560 ever took place. You have Jim Morrison jamming with Jimmy. 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:54.560 You have you know, you know the Winter Brothers Jammy, 0:31:54.600 --> 0:31:59.520 you have you know if you Linda, Linda Eastman, Nay Turner, McCartney, 0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:03.120 the house photographer, you have tiny Tim playing the Mandal, 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:06.520 amazing stuff. Rick Darren's you're playing. There was an amazing 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:10.600 place and it was a and Jimmy loved jamming there 0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:13.720 and so and it became the Not only was it 0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:16.720 named the scene, it became a scene. So kelgar knew, okay, 0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:18.640 you know what I got Hendrix here, I got all 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:23.200 these musicians, like David said Kelgwun's a genius at finding 0:32:23.240 --> 0:32:24.920 the location. You know, how do you become how do 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:29.120 you find successful business? How do you build a good story? Location? Location, location, 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:33.520 So so Kelgrit said, Okay, I gotta find a building 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.680 within a walking distance of the scene. Right, So the 0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:40.640 scene was on forty sixth Street. He found this office 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:43.760 building on forty fourth Street, three twenty one West forty 0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:47.440 fourth Street off eighth Avenue. Right Now, that that building 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:52.080 itself was historic. It was it was the old Vitagraph building. 0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:54.160 That's the if you know New York, that side of 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:57.000 New York was the Film District that. You know, it's 0:32:57.000 --> 0:33:00.560 not Hollywood, but there was. That's where the movie business started, remember, 0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:03.840 and that's where all the the you know, the film 0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:06.920 businesses had their building. So that was the Ftograph Building 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:09.960 and Fighter Graphs famous for a couple of reasons, but 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:13.560 one of it is they developed talking the talking technology 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:16.960 that Warner end Up used for al Joson. Right, So 0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:21.800 that building had audio in its bones. Right. But you know, listen, 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:25.040 you could soundproof of any space with enough wood and 0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:29.640 you know padding. It's not not unique. But Calgrin found 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:33.560 this space. And the tory story we tell in the book, 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:35.560 which is, you know which one of the great stories 0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:38.200 that Stone told us early on about the really early 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:42.560 days was they didn't want to make a deal on 0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:45.440 the lease on that building to build the studio unless 0:33:45.640 --> 0:33:49.480 they knew that Jimmy was all in. So they came 0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:52.120 up with his plan, right to get Jimmy over to 0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:55.560 the forty fourth Street to show him the space. But 0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:58.160 it was just an empty giant you know, you know, 0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:00.920 it was an office building. It was an the office building. 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.720 So they get Kelgrin had a piece of chalk, right, 0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:07.960 and he was a great salesman, so he walks walks 0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:10.239 Hendricks into the space and he says, all right, you know, 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.439 just imagine what the space is gonna look like. You're 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:17.960 gonna have beautiful hippie Moroccan cloths, and you're gonna have 0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:21.440 paintings by Dolly and Warhol, and we're gonna have everything here. 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:23.480 It's gonna beautiful. It's gonna be it's gonna be a 0:34:23.520 --> 0:34:26.440 real living room. It's gonna be a beautiful space, and 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.960 it's gonna be unique. It's not gonna be like anything 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:32.520 you ever saw. People and Stone and he pitched. They 0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:35.600 pitched each other and they worked on the pitch, and 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:39.600 Kelgrin basically sold Jimmy on this empty space with a 0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:42.120 piece of chalk in his mouth and a sales pitch. 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:46.600 And once once Jimmy said I'm in, they signed the 0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:48.440 lease and they went to work and they built the 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.839 place within about four or five months. By by the 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:55.600 spring of nineteen sixty eight, the place was ready to open. 0:34:57.040 --> 0:34:58.960 So it was it was a unique story. It was 0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:01.480 a unique place, but it was it was all built 0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:05.239 on a fundamental premise that a studio needed to be 0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:09.080 more a living room than a lab. It needed to 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.400 be a place where you could be comfortable, where you 0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:15.200 could jam, where you could be relaxed, and nobody was 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:18.160 breathing down your neck. Remember in David, you know, you 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:20.200 know what the studios were like in those days. You know, 0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:22.520 you've talked about it a lot. They were you know, 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:25.000 you know, maybe David whytn't you to share what was it? 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:27.000 What were they like in those days? 0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:31.880 Well, they were like Abbey Road probably where everybody's wearing 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:38.520 lab coats, and that the sessions were regulated by the union. 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.840 So if you were in the middle of a Hendrick 0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:44.920 solo at noon and it was time to have lunch, 0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:48.040 you know, the plugs would have been pulled and you said, no, 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:51.520 we have to continue after lunch. So this studio record 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:55.359 Plant changed that. Kilgrin walked around with that shock and 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.040 he said, here's gonna here's where we're going to have 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:00.560 the control room, here's the isolation room, here's going to 0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:05.759 be the canteen. Whatever. That was part of the sales job. 0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.360 But as far as the actual building of the studio, 0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:13.240 you know, kelgern knew what he wanted to have sounding 0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:18.040 and record Plant always had the best acousticians that could 0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:22.840 manipulate those spaces in the best way. Possible to capture 0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:26.920 the music that these guys had in their heads. The 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:30.680 translation of what they had in their mind into reality 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:34.480 was what the record plant was all about. 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:47.160 Okay, when the record plant opens, how many studios in 0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:49.760 how big a space? I mean every studio is different. 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:53.640 Some there's a very small lounge, a control room and 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:57.080 a room for recording. Others have multiple rooms, they have offices. 0:36:57.480 --> 0:36:58.959 When it opens, what is there? 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:04.560 There's one studio and an office. That's it, right, And 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:08.120 and yes it was unique. It had it had cool 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:12.200 uh you know, cool cloths, curtains on the wall, and 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:14.920 the concept was making make it like olivery. But it 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.520 had one thing that was very unique. It had a 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:23.360 twelve track recorder. Right now, remember you know it was 0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:27.320 just the very beginning of multi track recording, right and 0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:30.040 you know A track would had just come into town. 0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:33.480 And Mayfair, which we talked about, had one of the 0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:36.240 first A tracks in town. In fact, it was the 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:38.279 first time Jimmy worked on an A track was over 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:41.920 at Mayfair. But the skull the Scully had come up 0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:45.600 with a concept for a twelve track recorder and it 0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:48.319 was a very unique idea. Not only did it give 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:52.440 give more tracks for the artists to record on. But 0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:56.120 it also uh gave them a unique way of taking 0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:59.960 an a track tape right, bringing it into the studio, 0:38:00.600 --> 0:38:03.480 putting and be giving the artists a chance to add 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:07.279 four more tracks to the recording. So it was that 0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:12.080 Scully that really was was a major draw for Record 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:16.640 Plan And they had a console that was called Data Mix, 0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:19.799 which was also relatively new, but it was it was. 0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:23.319 It was the early days of multi track recording and 0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:25.720 having those more tracks was a huge draw. 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:30.399 Okay, you're in the profound business setting the scene here. 0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:33.160 We live in a completely different era. We talk about 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:37.000 Jimmy Shoes being a billionaire. At the time, you're talking 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.200 about if you were a successful musician, top tier, you 0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:43.120 were as rich as anybody in America. Okay, that is 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:48.920 not the case anymore. They are starting this studio to 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:52.480 what degree are they economically driven We are going to 0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.879 start a studio, we're going to get rich, or they 0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:57.520 just say we like to work. This is a business. 0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:01.960 They're going to charge a lot and they're going to 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:06.359 keep the artist working twenty four hours a day and 0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:09.919 there's nobody's going to look at the clock because there's 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:13.920 no clocks. The money's going to be rolling in, and 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:16.440 there's money going to be made from all the tape 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:20.399 that they're selling. These guys are going through two inch 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:26.879 reels of tape, box loads, box loads of this, and 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:31.319 the record company's sense that something is happening and they 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:33.840 want to make money too. So the money is flowing 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:38.840 into the studio and that doesn't stop for a long time. 0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:44.120 And the record Plant was notorious for having budgets that 0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:47.720 so what it goes through the roof. The record company 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:50.560 didn't worry they're going to get the money back. When 0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:53.719 you look at some of the record sales over a 0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:58.640 Marty's got those figures better than me. One hundred million 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:05.239 records was not unheard of for one album. 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:07.560 Well, and again you're talking about one hundred million albums 0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:11.000 from seventy six for the three albums that recorded Record Plan. 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:13.239 But let me give you let me answer your question 0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:17.800 this way, Bob. The studio sold for over a million 0:40:17.880 --> 0:40:21.319 dollars within fourteen months of being opened. There was a 0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:24.719 company called TVC. It was a cable company out of 0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:28.880 Pennsylvania that had a vision. Right, they said, we have 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:32.080 a cable television is coming in right. This is the 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:34.600 early Remember This is another revolution is happening at the 0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:37.160 same time as STEREO's happening, and the record business is 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:40.560 taking off, starting to take off. Cable television is taking off, 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:43.279 and they had a concept. They said, you know what, 0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:47.399 we want to have music television. Somebody at TVC had 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:52.040 this concept for long before MTV for music television. So 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:54.120 how do we get into the music business. We got 0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:58.280 to buy a recording studio. Now, Ankee was pretty connected. 0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:02.799 Ankye made some connections. They stole the Gary Kelgren became 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.600 a millionaire within fourteen months of having that studio open. 0:41:06.320 --> 0:41:12.000 And it was that was that that money that poured in. 0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:15.000 A lot of the business came in because of Jimmy Hendrix. 0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:18.480 The studio was busy round the clock. But it was 0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:22.240 that that purchase by TVC, who ultimately sold the Warrant 0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:27.759 Communications and which became Warner Cable, was what really made 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:30.279 the day. And answering your question, Stone was in it 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:33.400 for the money. Remember, so was Calgrin. Remember he was 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:35.839 working with Frank Zachsba on an album called We're Only 0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:38.200 in It for the Money, right, Kelgrin and Stone were 0:41:38.200 --> 0:41:42.080 in it for the money, and and yes, Kelgrin was 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:45.719 a brilliant artist and in his own way from a 0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:49.919 business standpoint, Stone was a brilliant artist, right. But they 0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:53.960 both had ambitions. They wanted cars, they wanted big houses. 0:41:54.200 --> 0:41:57.640 Ultimately they wanted boats, and they had found the way 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:00.799 for it to happen. And when that sale happened, all right, 0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:04.720 When that when that big sale happened, suddenly it opened 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:08.279 opened the eyes of a lot of other would be 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:11.560 entrepreneurs in town and around the country that there was 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.680 money to be made in the studio business. And uh 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:18.360 and it led to a boom in development of studios. 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:22.320 You know, it was not surprising that Jimmy Hendrick's management 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:26.640 wanted wanted me to build his own studio, Electric Lady Studios, 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:31.040 because clearly an outgrowth of the success of of Record 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:33.239 Plan and all the work Jimmy Hendrix did. There. 0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:37.640 Okay, two things. One did they build to sell? Did 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:41.240 they want to sell? Or was it just like, wow, 0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:46.000 here's an opportunity. Also, you delineate in the book The 0:42:46.040 --> 0:42:49.320 Studio then goes to a number of chapters talking about 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:52.560 the Pennsylvania Cable Company selling to Warner warn or not 0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:55.560 really wanted to own the studio. Can you play that out. 0:42:55.400 --> 0:43:01.520 For us, Yeah, I could play that for you. Stone 0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:05.640 and Stone and Kelgrin knew something that that the cable 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:08.399 company didn't know, right, you know, and if they didn't 0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:11.400 tell them, one was their number one artist that was 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.759 keeping them fat and happy, was about to leave and 0:43:14.800 --> 0:43:18.280 build his own studio. Right, you know, there was under construction. 0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:20.279 So you could about to lose your biggest customer, right, 0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:23.399 your calling cards. So they were about to lose that. 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:27.680 And two they also were aware of something even more significant. 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.000 The record business was moving to the West coast, right, 0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:34.239 it was moving out of New York. The business was 0:43:34.280 --> 0:43:38.080 hurt heading to LA and they realized, you know what, 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:42.200 They made a trip out to l A and they 0:43:42.400 --> 0:43:45.759 their eyes open what was going on out there, and 0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:47.640 they knew there was money out there, and they knew 0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:51.120 that was their next move. So so they sold out 0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:53.640 at the right time. And you know, it's all timing, 0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:58.359 you know, did they did they do anything wrong? 0:43:58.440 --> 0:43:58.480 No? 0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.360 You know what, the studio stayed incredibly successful for a 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:04.000 long time. Warner didn't want to be in the studio 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:06.719 business for a lot of reasons, but one of the 0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:09.280 reasons is it was a shitty business for a big 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:12.440 record label, and by the way. Their artists didn't want 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:16.840 to record in label on studios anymore. So it was working. 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:19.520 It was it was moving away from that that train. 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:22.640 But Stone and Kelgar knew one thing they were they 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.479 wanted to move out west. The business was moving out west. 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:28.120 The opportunity for growth was out west, and there was 0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:31.200 a There was also other problems with New York. It's 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:34.719 an expensive place to operate. It's tight space. You know. 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:37.480 They ended up building a second studio in New York 0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:40.480 on the first floor, but then to save Jimmy's business, 0:44:40.480 --> 0:44:43.000 they opened another studio on the tenth floor. It was 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:44.919 you know, it wasn't there wasn't a lot of room 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:48.160 to move in New York. La had a lot more 0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:49.560 room to move and it was a lot. It was 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.280 a whole you know, green field for the studio business. 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:56.640 Okay, talking about the studio itself, you ran prosund Audio News. 0:44:57.560 --> 0:45:03.799 It became an arms race that lasted into the eighties. Okay, 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:06.400 you got to have this first. It was yet to 0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:08.440 have a better machine, had to have more tracks. We 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:11.319 ultimately get to twenty four. We want a stood oh 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.680 you know, we go through boards ultimately solid state you know, 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:19.279 sssal one with the you know, moving faders. How much 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:23.040 of a factor was the cost of this equipment and 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:24.600 keeping up with that cost. 0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:29.320 That's where Chris Stone comes into the picture. He figures 0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:35.160 out ways that they can satisfy Gary Kelgrin's lust to 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:39.799 be a rock star. And one example is that, you 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:43.040 know Kelgrin. First he bought of Rolls Royce and the 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:48.600 license plate was greed. Stone goes shopping, says he's got 0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:53.040 some cash too. He goes to the Mercedes dealership and 0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:56.640 he's looking at their top of the line car and 0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:58.520 he's trying to figure out how he's going to pay 0:45:58.600 --> 0:46:02.520 for it and finagal this and finagal that, and the 0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:05.840 salesman says, you know, did you ever think about leasing 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:11.440 a car? And this nobody knew about this new opportunity. 0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:18.160 Stone leased the car, his license plate red deduct and 0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:24.520 then he pioneered leasing recording equipment. If the you know, 0:46:24.760 --> 0:46:29.880 a million dollar console, a two hundred thousand dollars maybe 0:46:29.880 --> 0:46:35.799 more tape machine, very expensive stuff. Leasing opened that up 0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:38.960 so that you could keep refreshing this stuff. Because it 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:44.160 was a battle of the technology at the time, and 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:46.839 the artist knew about this, the producers knew about this. 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:50.800 They wanted to be have access to the latest tools 0:46:51.800 --> 0:46:56.240 to keep making these million selling albums, and record Plant 0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:59.240 became the place where you could get whatever you wanted. 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:04.480 And that expands into the hotel rooms and the other 0:47:05.520 --> 0:47:09.680 concierge and five star accommodations that fit in with the 0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:14.640 latest equipment and the idea of financing this stuff. That's 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:18.319 where that's where Stone was. He was making it up 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:19.080 as he went along. 0:47:19.200 --> 0:47:22.680 Okay, so let's you know, they're in Los Angeles. We'll 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:25.400 get into the establishment that earlier. But picking up on 0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:30.640 your theme, he leases his Mercedes, he approaches API, he 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:34.440 approaches stud or whatever, blah blah blah. Does he sell 0:47:34.560 --> 0:47:37.200 them on leasing or have they ever thought of it? 0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:42.600 Marty probably know the business angle, you're better than me. 0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:46.080 But my impression is that this was the beginning of 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:49.640 that that type of creative financing. 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:53.799 That's where it was an you know, we talked, let 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:55.799 me put it frame it this way to you, Bob, 0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:00.400 audio was the technology revolution of the time. Living in 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:04.840 a technology revolution now AI and you know, and but 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:09.480 those that was the audio revolution. You know, it was 0:48:09.520 --> 0:48:13.640 a time where these guys were selling a lot of stuff. 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.719 People you know, Moran's was selling high fives and thrends, 0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:22.120 and you know Pioneer, the high five was hot. Professional 0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:25.160 equipment was hot. These guys were starting to make a 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:30.479 lot of money and they were suddenly everything was new, 0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:34.280 everything was an opportunity. So if they listen, if somebody 0:48:34.280 --> 0:48:35.920 came in and said I can lease the gear and 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:40.000 make payments, they were going to take it. You know, 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:43.040 we talked a lot about this book. You know, listen, 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:46.399 Sex Drugs rock and Roll. Yes, record Plant. The story 0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:48.560 of Record Plant is sex, drugs and rock and roll, 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:51.600 But there was really a much more significant part of 0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:54.399 the story that it should be should be added. When 0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:56.879 we talked about this story, it was sex drugs, rock 0:48:56.920 --> 0:49:02.080 and roll and audio and it was that was the 0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:05.840 ultimate attraction of Record Plan. You had to have the 0:49:05.960 --> 0:49:09.680 latest audio gear, the latest equipment, because that's what turned 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:13.680 on the artists. That's what really got the artists excited. 0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:16.279 Yes they wanted to be comfortable, Yes they wanted all 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:19.799 the amenities, but they really wanted the ultimate sound. And 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:24.960 when when Stone and Calgrin moved to La there was 0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:29.960 one other individual comes into play and significant character and 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.840 not only the history of Record Plan, but the history 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:36.400 of audio and professional recording. A guy named Tom Hidley 0:49:36.960 --> 0:49:40.680 who passed away recently. Tom Hiley was an audio engineer 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.320 in LA and he'd worked in New York at A 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:45.480 and R. But he was working out in a studio 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:52.360 called TTG in LA where he was working with artists, 0:49:52.400 --> 0:49:55.480 you know, like a lot of Tom Wilson's artists on 0:49:55.520 --> 0:49:59.359 the West Coast were, you know, were TTG customers. And 0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:02.200 this guy was a genius. He worked with He worked 0:50:02.200 --> 0:50:05.880 in high fi with mad Men Months. I don't know 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:08.800 if you remember that name, but he also Madman Months, 0:50:08.800 --> 0:50:12.200 but he you know, he worked for months. His most 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:16.879 famous product was he built a car stereo for Frank 0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:20.240 Stinastra so Frank could listen to his his his cuts 0:50:20.239 --> 0:50:22.960 on the way out to Palm Springs, all right, So 0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:25.360 that was Tom Hitley and Tom Hilly was a genius. 0:50:25.680 --> 0:50:29.080 Tom Hidley not only could build was building sixteen and 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:32.560 twenty four track tape machines before anybody. But he had 0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:37.360 a TTG these amazing, amazing loud speakers that he developed, 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:41.960 right and you know what really attracted Stone and Kelgrin 0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:44.760 to going out to the West Coast was that Jimmy 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:48.240 came back from working out a TTG and told Kelgrin, 0:50:48.400 --> 0:50:50.800 you gotta go out to LA and meet this guy Hittley. 0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:53.560 He's a genius. He's got some speakers. I've never heard 0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:56.400 anything like it. So Kelgrin and Stone got on a plane. 0:50:56.480 --> 0:50:59.040 They went out there and they heard that. They not 0:50:59.080 --> 0:51:02.760 only they meet Hitdley, but they heard these loud speakers. 0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:05.759 They knew those loud speakers in the right control room 0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:09.560 would blow any artists and producer's mind and get their business. 0:51:10.000 --> 0:51:13.840 So they they not only did they decide to build 0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:16.480 the studio at that point, they they hired Hitly Away 0:51:17.120 --> 0:51:20.799 and Hily. Hilly and Kelgrin as a pair were were 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:24.000 a brilliant pair. They build the revolution in the acoustical 0:51:24.080 --> 0:51:31.040 environment of a studio. Hitley's Hitly's loud speakers were were 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:34.280 famous and they became They became noted around the world. 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:37.719 He Hilly ultimately put put those speakers in over a 0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:41.000 thousand studios. They became the reference monitors of not only 0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:42.960 that time, but many of them are still in place. 0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:45.439 There's you know, David, you could tell the story about 0:51:45.520 --> 0:51:48.680 you know about the James Gang in the and those speakers, 0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:50.480 because it's one of the funny. One of the funny 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.120 stories of the early days of Record Plant was how 0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:56.560 Hitly went out and built those speakers for for Kelgren 0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:57.040 and Stone. 0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:05.200 Well, they're Bill Simsick is recording The James Gang with 0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:12.960 his good buddy Joe Walsh. These guys want to play loud. 0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:17.440 They want to record loud. They want to put to 0:52:17.480 --> 0:52:20.160 the red line all the time, and when they hear 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:23.640 it back, they want to get blown away. I mean literally, 0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:27.560 they just want to be blown away. So every day 0:52:28.719 --> 0:52:32.520 they were in their playback, they had a rack of 0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:36.520 these expensive I think tan Oi monitors in the studio, 0:52:37.440 --> 0:52:40.239 and invariably, every day a couple of them would just, 0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:44.480 I mean actually blow off the wall. They would demolish 0:52:44.600 --> 0:52:49.600 themselves and they'd call Stone and say, look, you know 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:54.000 we blew the monitors out again. Stone would say, oh, 0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:55.960 that's okay, we'll get you some new ones tomorrow. The 0:52:56.000 --> 0:52:58.680 record company will pay for it. So there was actually 0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:02.719 an unlimited supply of speakers, but it just got out 0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:04.640 of hand. It was like every day they got to 0:53:04.680 --> 0:53:09.320 replace the monitors. They called in Hitdley and said in 0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:16.359 his task Tom, can you build a monitor that can 0:53:16.440 --> 0:53:20.960 withstand the sounds of Bill Simsic and Joe Walls. She 0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:25.440 was working on a song called the Bomber and it 0:53:25.520 --> 0:53:29.759 was just it was just ruining every speaker. Hidley came up. 0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:33.719 One was a monitor that could withstand the levels that 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:39.000 they wanted to listen to and end of that chapter. 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:42.360 But they but not only did they build these monitors 0:53:42.360 --> 0:53:46.480 and these big they were these big monitors with big 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:50.200 waffers and these big you know they call monkey monkey 0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:53.600 lips monitors and these big protrusions in them, and they 0:53:53.640 --> 0:53:56.400 build them into the soffits. But Hitley knew how to 0:53:56.440 --> 0:53:59.239 build them in a control room, so they sounded amazingly. 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:02.760 He built this was called the compression ceiling that really 0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:06.800 when the artist was sitting behind the console, that sound 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:09.319 was going right at the sweet spot right where they 0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:13.680 were sitting. So the experience of a playback in a 0:54:13.760 --> 0:54:17.719 hilly Calgrin control room was unlike anything else anybody had 0:54:17.719 --> 0:54:22.560 ever heard. And that's you know, not only do those 0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:26.400 monitors change the way people recorded record Plant, but like 0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:30.560 I said, nearly a thousand studios later they were Hitley 0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:33.840 built studios after we left Record Plant all over the world. 0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:44.600 So how did these two characters get along? Kel Grin 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:45.120 and Stone. 0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:56.400 Oh they got along glorious Stone, Stone's wife, who advised 0:54:57.239 --> 0:55:01.320 Kelgrin's wife about how to have help her with the 0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:07.680 birth of her first child. Uh told us that Kelgrin 0:55:07.840 --> 0:55:10.880 just wanted to be a rock storm. He wanted everything. 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:16.640 He wanted boats, he wanted new studio rooms, new monitors, everything. 0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:22.040 Their job was to satisfy Kelgrin and Uh, and they 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:25.279 did it as far as it was. It was a 0:55:25.360 --> 0:55:31.120 constant back and forth pool between Kelgrin wanting more and 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:33.879 Stone going, how the hell are we going to pay 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:36.680 for this? They originally they wanted to have a he 0:55:36.760 --> 0:55:38.759 wanted we're going to have a record We got to 0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:42.759 have a swimming pool at the Record Plant in la Well. 0:55:43.000 --> 0:55:46.960 Stone convinced him that maybe a jacuzzie would do. Uh 0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:52.680 the jacuzzi room, and the jacuzzie became a hot bed 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:55.160 what do you call it when it's wet hot a 0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:59.359 hot water bed of activity at the Record Planet. Legendary 0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:02.880 stories of people saying, Oh, let's go use the jacuzie, 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:06.160 opening the door and going, oh my god, is that 0:56:06.239 --> 0:56:10.160 Rod Stewart, Who's that over there in the corner? Oh God, 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:12.960 what's all that stuff floating? In the water. Oh no, 0:56:13.239 --> 0:56:17.880 thank you, not today. You know, Buddy Miles said that 0:56:18.160 --> 0:56:21.680 many babies of his babies were probably berthed in the 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:25.440 in the jacuzzie. I know this gets kind of raunchy sounding, 0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:29.040 but these guys had a lot of money, the artists, 0:56:29.360 --> 0:56:34.480 the producers, the record companies, and they also needed to 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:39.840 blow off some steam the pressure of making a record. Bob, 0:56:39.880 --> 0:56:43.200 you've been in a recording studio, you know how exciting 0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:46.480 it can be if you're just waiting in the outside 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:49.560 the vocal booth and you know that the guy in 0:56:49.600 --> 0:56:52.160 there is cutting a record that everybody in the world 0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:56.200 is going to hear in two weeks or six weeks 0:56:56.280 --> 0:57:00.960 or whatever how long it takes. It's a it's a 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.600 supercharged environment. And if you've just had a big hit 0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:07.360 and you got to hit another, get another hit, the 0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:11.800 pressure is incredible, and you know, emotions get out of 0:57:11.920 --> 0:57:16.600 control and things just get crazy, and you know, there 0:57:16.640 --> 0:57:20.320 were some sad stories, but there were many great stories 0:57:20.360 --> 0:57:22.240 and great records that we have today. 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:25.880 But you're talking about the relationship between Stone and Calgrin 0:57:25.920 --> 0:57:29.760 was an interesting really they were very complimentary but different personality. 0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:33.400 Stone was the businessman, Kelgrin was the brilliant visionary and artist. 0:57:33.920 --> 0:57:38.800 Calgrin was all about about creating new sounds, creating new visuals, 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:42.040 creating new space, using spaces in an innovative way. Stone 0:57:42.120 --> 0:57:44.600 was about paying for the paying the bills, making sure 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:49.439 the artists were serviced, make sure that the business ran right. 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:53.160 Greed and deduct tell that tell us everything about the relationship. 0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:57.280 And they and they were complimentary. You know. Somebody once 0:57:57.320 --> 0:57:59.320 said to me, you know what, they were so different, 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:00.960 you know they how did they get along? It was 0:58:01.000 --> 0:58:04.400 because they were different and because they compliment each other 0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:08.680 so well that it worked. And yes, they fought. They 0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:12.360 they had differences of opinions. There were times when one 0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:14.520 was shut trying to shove one out, one was trying 0:58:14.520 --> 0:58:16.720 to shove the other one out. But every time they 0:58:16.720 --> 0:58:20.560 were they were uh, they were about to end the relationship. 0:58:20.600 --> 0:58:23.040 And that happened several times during the course of their 0:58:23.600 --> 0:58:27.640 their business life together. Uh magic started happening. The money 0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:30.640 started flowing, and they said, you know what, let's let's 0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:32.600 not screw with this. We're making plenty of money. You know. 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:35.640 There was there was a this story where where Calvin 0:58:35.760 --> 0:58:39.320 really wants, you know, really offended Stone and you know, said, 0:58:39.360 --> 0:58:41.160 you know, if it wasn't for me, you'd be selling 0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:44.400 still selling Nail Pauls for Revlin, right, and don't tell 0:58:44.400 --> 0:58:47.040 that to tell that story. And it took place years later, 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:49.440 but he really offended him, and Stone had a choice 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:52.600 either blow up and screaming him or or just turn 0:58:52.640 --> 0:58:55.600 around and and and walk out the door. He turned 0:58:55.640 --> 0:58:57.920 around and walked to the door and he and I 0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:00.240 asked him, you know, how'd you do? He said, you 0:59:00.240 --> 0:59:02.320 know what I learned long enough to shut up and 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:05.400 take the money, you know, and U And that was 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:08.840 Stone and Calgrin. And you know, we're talking a ton 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:12.200 in this interview about Stone and Kelgarn. They're really in 0:59:12.240 --> 0:59:16.120 the in this story of record Plant that we tell, 0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:18.720 which is really the origin story of record Plant. Record 0:59:18.760 --> 0:59:21.400 Plant went on, it's still going on. There's a studio, 0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:24.720 the studio in Sacelito, we'll talk about it is still functioning. 0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:27.680 L a studio at a new location closed last year. 0:59:28.160 --> 0:59:31.400 And there is one room on forty fourth Street still 0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:34.160 operating on the tenth floor of three twenty one West 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:37.520 forty fourth Streets owned by Sony Music. So still to 0:59:37.560 --> 0:59:43.800 some extent exists. But you know, the Stone Kelgren relationship 0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:46.240 brought a third character in because remember, as we said, 0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:49.360 Stone and Kelgron got on a plane and sold the 0:59:49.360 --> 0:59:53.120 studio and got the hell out oft of Dodge, moved that, moved, 0:59:53.120 --> 0:59:56.040 moved to the West coast and sold sold out to Warner. 0:59:56.360 --> 0:59:59.640 They needed somebody to be Calgren in New York, right, 0:59:59.680 --> 1:00:01.960 They need need somebody to give to warn or to 1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:05.960 run the place. And they and Hitley knew a guy 1:00:06.160 --> 1:00:10.880 from from A and R, A brilliant engineer, a great 1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:13.640 maintenance guy, a real character in his own right named 1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:20.240 roy Sakala. Right now, Royce Socali was the third leg 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:23.240 on the stool of record plant because he ultimately not 1:00:23.320 --> 1:00:26.200 only was hired by Stone and Kelgman to run New 1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:29.160 York when they left, but ultimately he ended up owning 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:32.400 it and running it. He was He's famous not only 1:00:32.440 --> 1:00:37.080 for mentoring great engineers like Jack Douglas and Jimmy Iveen, 1:00:37.520 --> 1:00:41.600 but he was most famous he was John Lennon's engineer 1:00:42.160 --> 1:00:47.760 for almost his entire post Beatles catalog, so you know, 1:00:48.000 --> 1:00:50.960 and he was, you know, he's a whole another part 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:55.959 of the story. And while Kelgrin and and Stone were 1:00:56.000 --> 1:00:59.600 doing their doing damage to the LA market and eating 1:00:59.680 --> 1:01:04.040 up that market. So Calla was running running New York himself. 1:01:04.160 --> 1:01:06.280 And so Cala was an interesting story because not only 1:01:06.440 --> 1:01:08.200 was he engineer, but he was married to a woman 1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:11.000 named Laurie Burton. Now I don't know if people know, 1:01:11.280 --> 1:01:15.440 but great songwriter, you know, uh you know. The famous 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:17.960 song was that I Ain't Gonna eat at my heart anymore? Right, 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:20.920 that was her. She wrote some great songs. She was 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:25.360 She was the brains behind getting getting Roy started in 1:01:25.400 --> 1:01:27.560 the business. She got him his first job at A 1:01:27.640 --> 1:01:32.600 and R with Phil Ramone, and it was Ramone and 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:36.160 he and and Sicala got into a fight. He got fired. 1:01:36.160 --> 1:01:38.440 And when he got fired from A and R uh 1:01:38.480 --> 1:01:40.480 Stone and Calgrin hired him up and said, all right, 1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:43.280 you know what, we got our calgarn from New York, Cicala, 1:01:43.840 --> 1:01:46.640 You're you're running New York while we're while we're running 1:01:46.760 --> 1:01:50.880 l A and that It became the relationship between Stone 1:01:50.880 --> 1:01:53.560 and Calgrin was always rocky, but they knew how to 1:01:53.560 --> 1:01:58.640 work together. So Caala Sokala became New York became so 1:01:58.800 --> 1:02:01.560 Callo studio. It was for many years was his studio. 1:02:02.000 --> 1:02:04.600 Okay, you talk good about about Soicla in the book 1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:07.080 who ends up in Brazil? 1:02:08.160 --> 1:02:14.840 How does that happen? Well, the story of Royce Sokala 1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:17.080 is his own book. And there are many people in 1:02:17.120 --> 1:02:19.040 New York who say, you know what you should have 1:02:19.120 --> 1:02:21.240 just you know, when we wrote this book, it was 1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:23.720 like cold, we write the story about all record plans 1:02:23.840 --> 1:02:27.080 or do we just focus on one? And we took 1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:29.800 the task of trying to put it all into one story, 1:02:31.120 --> 1:02:34.960 which hopefully worked out. But Sakala's story was an interesting 1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:38.760 one because not only was he a brilliant engineer, but 1:02:38.880 --> 1:02:42.280 he was not exactly the greatest businessman, all right, and 1:02:42.800 --> 1:02:46.880 he didn't have his stone, right, you know, Kelgrin had 1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:50.720 his stone, that relationship that frickin' frack business and commerce 1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:53.600 relations The sex of the Record Plan is an ultimate 1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:58.360 example of commerce, art coming art and commerce coming together 1:02:58.440 --> 1:03:03.360 for success. It didn't have that that partner. He tried 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:06.880 to find that partner many times, right, but he didn't 1:03:06.880 --> 1:03:10.720 have that partner. And you know, unfortunately, you know, the 1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:13.880 studio started to get run down over the years. You know, 1:03:13.920 --> 1:03:18.480 there was a big period when when John when Lennon retired, 1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:21.400 you know, yes, there was Aerosmith came in and yeah, 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:24.240 Kiss came in, and Yes Springsteen came in, and then 1:03:24.280 --> 1:03:26.040 Patty Smith came in. There was always an artist, but 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:29.200 the place was always having trouble making money and for 1:03:29.280 --> 1:03:31.520 whatever reason and something, it was because that was not 1:03:31.640 --> 1:03:35.520 Roy's skill set. And when the studio years later, when 1:03:35.560 --> 1:03:40.200 the studio started declining, the New York studio started declining, 1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:43.440 specifically because the New York was a different operation. And 1:03:43.480 --> 1:03:45.480 I'll talk about that a minute. Remember they became two 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:49.360 separate businesses. People thought it was New York record Plant 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:51.640 East the Record Plant West. John Lennon used to even 1:03:51.680 --> 1:03:54.240 call record Plan La Record Plan West. They were two 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:58.120 separate corporations. They were run separately. So Kala owned New York, 1:03:58.640 --> 1:04:02.040 you know. And when it started getting run down, Laurie 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:05.000 Burton told us that, you know what, the worst business got. 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:09.920 The more Roy started checking out and he started getting 1:04:10.000 --> 1:04:14.440 he started getting interested in Brazilian music, started working with 1:04:14.480 --> 1:04:19.000 Brazilian artists, and started traveling to Brazil and started and 1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:22.960 found found new love down there. Had had a child 1:04:23.000 --> 1:04:27.280 down there and ultimately built a studio down there. And 1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:30.080 when he as he started checking out if record Plant 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.560 New York and spending more Brazil the studio to climb 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:36.360 into the eighties, you know, the studio declined even further. 1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:41.680 Okay, let's go specifically to Kelgrin. You talked about speaking 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:44.760 with his widow. What it says in the book is 1:04:44.880 --> 1:04:48.040 cal Grin is from the Midwest. He steps off from 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:51.200 the altar with a pregnant kid, a pregnant wife. Then 1:04:51.240 --> 1:04:53.960 as a kid you talk about he comes to New York, 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:58.800 he meets this woman. They ultimately moved to la She's 1:04:58.880 --> 1:05:01.520 living one place, but he's got a girlfriends and we 1:05:01.640 --> 1:05:05.360 you know, what kind of character does this other than 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:09.520 rock stars? And how did the widow feel about all this? 1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:14.440 Marta Kelgrin has been very kind to us in the book, 1:05:14.640 --> 1:05:17.360 and she and and some of the stories I'm sure 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:20.320 were difficult, but she, you know, you know, she and 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:23.440 her daughter were supportive of the project and had a 1:05:23.440 --> 1:05:26.360 lot of changes and had a lot of stories to 1:05:26.640 --> 1:05:30.720 share with us as well. But I didn't dig into 1:05:31.000 --> 1:05:33.880 the details of how she felt. But you know, but 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:37.640 obviously there were you know, as things evolved, her relationship 1:05:38.440 --> 1:05:43.600 with with Gary became even more difficult. She h, you know, 1:05:44.320 --> 1:05:46.480 there was she lived in one house with the kids, 1:05:46.480 --> 1:05:49.800 he moved out. You know, Gary was living in a rock 1:05:49.800 --> 1:05:52.840 star lifestyle. He was, remember he was the rock stars 1:05:52.960 --> 1:05:55.840 rock star at that time. You know, the rock stars 1:05:55.920 --> 1:05:59.760 wanted wanted Kelgren. You know, they were chasing Kelgrin in 1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:04.520 those days. So I've never really pushed on that point 1:06:04.560 --> 1:06:07.560 and how she felt. I know that some things we 1:06:07.600 --> 1:06:10.120 wrote were difficult for her. We saw her recently at 1:06:10.120 --> 1:06:12.320 a book signing in la and she was very kind 1:06:12.840 --> 1:06:15.400 and generous to us. But I'm sure some of the 1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:17.280 you know, it was a tough period in her life. 1:06:17.760 --> 1:06:20.280 You know, it was certainly and certainly to Gary the 1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:22.960 end that was this particularly tough time for her. It 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:24.520 was tough time for a lot of people. 1:06:24.920 --> 1:06:29.240 We should mention that there was a very unfortunate occurrence 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:34.480 that kind of altered his Kelgrin's life and probably the 1:06:34.600 --> 1:06:40.560 relationship with Marta. He fell through a glass shower door 1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:46.160 before they had tempered class or safety class. He almost 1:06:46.680 --> 1:06:50.840 had his arm amputated. They had to wire him together. 1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:55.520 This was in the in the mid seventies. Technology was 1:06:55.560 --> 1:06:57.960 the best they had, but it was it was a 1:06:58.080 --> 1:07:02.720 terribly painful thing. He had to go for years with 1:07:02.880 --> 1:07:07.040 this device that elevated his arm like up like this 1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:14.800 and that was probably the beginning of some painkillers that 1:07:15.080 --> 1:07:19.280 were absolutely necessary. I mean, he was almost died and 1:07:19.800 --> 1:07:23.439 that may have had that probably. Marta told us that 1:07:23.920 --> 1:07:27.240 he was never the same after that occurrence, So that was, 1:07:27.640 --> 1:07:30.920 you know, part of the transition or the change in 1:07:31.000 --> 1:07:40.120 his life. Sad but true, and eventually probably had a 1:07:40.440 --> 1:07:43.880 fat was a factor in his desk drowning in his 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:45.800 luxurious swimming pool. 1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:50.160 A couple of questions her stories like this, I hear 1:07:50.240 --> 1:07:54.760 my father's voice in my head. Yeah, he fell through 1:07:54.800 --> 1:07:57.880 the shower door. Was he fucked up or was he like, 1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:00.040 you know, a regular guy and he fell through the 1:08:00.080 --> 1:08:00.680 tower door. 1:08:02.880 --> 1:08:05.840 Could have been a combination of both. It doesn't sound 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:09.920 like it was an unusual time. You know, Calgrin could 1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:15.480 probably handle more drugs than anybody you could imagine. 1:08:17.120 --> 1:08:17.360 You know. 1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:20.439 Gloria said that once they were driving in a limo 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:25.320 and he gave her a puff on a pipe and 1:08:26.000 --> 1:08:30.720 she got terribly sick and said she'd never get any 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:36.040 smoke anything from Kelgrin. Again, some people could handle it, 1:08:36.120 --> 1:08:40.559 some people couldn't, you know. I don't think we need 1:08:40.600 --> 1:08:43.960 to dwell on it. But there were many sad factors 1:08:44.560 --> 1:08:47.639 in his decline and. 1:08:47.640 --> 1:08:49.240 I can't answer that, quo, I don't we can answer 1:08:49.240 --> 1:08:51.519 the question. We don't know that right, We don't know 1:08:51.560 --> 1:08:54.600 the answer to that question. But we do know that 1:08:54.600 --> 1:08:58.600 that the accident did impact not only his life, his 1:08:59.479 --> 1:09:05.280 use of uh of let's say pharmaceuticals uh and his 1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:08.840 experimentation with him, but it also affected his work, you know, 1:09:09.080 --> 1:09:11.120 his ability to work in the console. And that was 1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:13.400 you know, we have I don't know if we've talked 1:09:13.400 --> 1:09:15.280 about the Donna hues and we can talk about Tom 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:17.719 and Rachel Donnie who play a role in this story 1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:22.080 as well. Uh. They you know, Rachel Donnay, who could 1:09:22.120 --> 1:09:25.320 describe the story of watching Gary after his accident with 1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:30.120 his weird contraptions on working at console. He never carried 1:09:30.200 --> 1:09:33.600 never despite this accident and despite his you know this 1:09:33.960 --> 1:09:37.880 what it transpired, Uh, he never lost his ability to 1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:40.680 function in the studio. He never locked his ears, has 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:45.679 never lost his ability to create new environments, create new sounds, 1:09:46.160 --> 1:09:49.679 and he certainly never lost his ability to to mix. 1:09:51.040 --> 1:09:53.880 And it was it's an amazing thing that that his 1:09:54.280 --> 1:09:56.040 you know, you could say he had great capacity, but 1:09:56.080 --> 1:09:58.880 he put you know, listen, you can't do what he 1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:03.200 does he did without being a very special creative individual, 1:10:03.200 --> 1:10:12.479 and he certainly was okay. 1:10:13.040 --> 1:10:17.240 All these records had credits. We read them, studied them, 1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:20.720 you look at you know, at first it was just 1:10:20.800 --> 1:10:23.599 producer and engineer. Then at other times, and to this day, 1:10:23.640 --> 1:10:26.320 there's a third party who mixes the record gets a credit. 1:10:27.280 --> 1:10:31.200 I don't remember seeing his name in most of these credits. 1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:36.320 Is it that I missed them, or he was working uncredited, 1:10:36.560 --> 1:10:39.439 or he wasn't working as much as we think he was. 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.000 He was working a lot, but he was working. Remember, 1:10:45.920 --> 1:10:51.200 they had an interesting business model. Stone tell us the 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:54.920 story that he came up with his idea when he 1:10:54.920 --> 1:10:57.280 was in the dentist's office. How the dentist was hopping 1:10:57.360 --> 1:11:01.400 from room to room, right, and he had you know, 1:11:01.479 --> 1:11:04.600 they had the dental hygienus and the systems working in 1:11:04.640 --> 1:11:07.360 one room, and he had all these assistants. Stone said, 1:11:07.400 --> 1:11:10.400 you know what, everybody wants to work with Kelgrin, right, 1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:12.599 but I can't. You know, I can't have a multi 1:11:12.640 --> 1:11:16.320 room facility. I can't I can't clone Calgrin, right. So 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:18.400 he had this idea that you know what, you'd go 1:11:18.479 --> 1:11:22.559 into a studio, the Kelgrin would start the session with 1:11:22.640 --> 1:11:26.439 an assistant and then he would just walk out and 1:11:26.640 --> 1:11:29.760 he'd leave that assistant to work with the artists. For 1:11:29.840 --> 1:11:32.960 the assistant, you know, might have been a very accomplished engineer. 1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:35.120 It might have been just a real runner or an 1:11:35.160 --> 1:11:39.200 assistant engineer or a tapeonk but Kelgrin knew that, you 1:11:39.240 --> 1:11:43.120 know what, He could bounce around from studio studio and 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:47.680 sometimes different disappear entirely. You know, Royce of Kala was 1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:51.320 trained on that model as well. But kelgrind You know, 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:54.360 Kelgrin has credits, you know, certainly, you know the Hendrix 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.200 credits that we should talk about in a moment if 1:11:56.200 --> 1:11:59.840 you'd like. But you know, there are lots of Kelvin credits. 1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:04.040 But but Record Plant couldn't have built the music factory 1:12:05.040 --> 1:12:09.000 that it became just on the back of Gary Calgrin. 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:13.719 Calgrin trained these guys. He taught them a work ethic, 1:12:14.160 --> 1:12:17.080 but he also taught he also threw him into the 1:12:17.120 --> 1:12:19.360 deep end with some of the biggest artists of their time, 1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:23.719 and he trained roy Zakala on the same the same gig. 1:12:23.960 --> 1:12:27.280 You know. That's that's the way they operate, you know, 1:12:27.400 --> 1:12:30.080 and it's something and years later you know that's what 1:12:30.240 --> 1:12:32.920 you know. Years later, Jimmy Iveen learned that gig bouncing 1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:35.519 between sessions with Patty Smith and Bruce Springsteen at the 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:38.280 same time. That's how you did it. He had really 1:12:38.280 --> 1:12:40.000 good assistance, could back you up. 1:12:40.439 --> 1:12:43.400 And you don't see Chris Chris Stone mentioned on any 1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:48.519 album credits either, but we both well we know that 1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:52.439 many of the greatest albums of all time would not 1:12:52.560 --> 1:12:57.799 have been finished without Chris Stone behind the scenes making 1:12:57.840 --> 1:13:04.559 sure that the studio operates correctly. Also, Stone knew how 1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:11.479 to protect the artists from any problems with the law. 1:13:12.640 --> 1:13:17.799 He had in San Francisco. He had the top Phil Ryan, 1:13:17.840 --> 1:13:21.120 who I interviewed the two of them together. These two 1:13:21.160 --> 1:13:23.880 guys were real characters, but Phil Ryan was the rock 1:13:23.920 --> 1:13:27.920 and roll lawyer. There were many artists that careers would 1:13:27.920 --> 1:13:31.200 have gone directly into the toilet if Phil didn't come 1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:34.000 in and kind of save the day and get them 1:13:34.000 --> 1:13:37.800 out of town. While you know, people were trying to 1:13:38.160 --> 1:13:43.000 attack some of the artists and and and stars of 1:13:43.080 --> 1:13:46.000 the day in the sixties, So there was a big 1:13:46.160 --> 1:13:51.719 organization that was happening behind the scenes while the artists 1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:56.280 were working. Where Kelgrin was working, his magic, and Stone 1:13:56.520 --> 1:14:00.759 was making sure that everybody's safe. 1:14:01.439 --> 1:14:05.280 And and Kelpan's role also uh turned to sales, or 1:14:05.320 --> 1:14:07.760 remember he and sales in the record business, and the 1:14:07.920 --> 1:14:09.920 rock and roll business was different than going out and 1:14:09.960 --> 1:14:13.080 knocking on doors. You go to the go to the Rainbow, 1:14:13.400 --> 1:14:16.240 pulled greed up and you know, into the parking lot 1:14:16.280 --> 1:14:18.840 and spend an evening up in the Rainbow hanging out 1:14:18.840 --> 1:14:21.479 and drinking and partying until two a m. And then 1:14:21.600 --> 1:14:24.280 then when the Rainbow closed, he'd bring people back for 1:14:24.320 --> 1:14:28.240 an after party all night long at at at at 1:14:28.320 --> 1:14:32.840 Record Plan on Third Street. So it was his role 1:14:33.160 --> 1:14:37.000 was to bring not only spread the word about the 1:14:37.040 --> 1:14:39.800 magic that was going down down at the Record Plan, 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:42.599 but to bring in the business. You know, when Jimmy 1:14:42.720 --> 1:14:49.880 left for Electric Electric Ladies Studios, Stone and Kelgrin you 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:53.880 know had a void. They always needed a major artist 1:14:53.960 --> 1:14:58.000 to book a lot of time, right and thank goodness, 1:14:58.240 --> 1:15:03.400 Uh Stevie Wonder Uh left New York uh and moved 1:15:03.400 --> 1:15:06.400 out to la and needed a studio to work in, 1:15:06.840 --> 1:15:09.960 and and Stone went a Stone and Calgrin built studio 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:13.599 B famous and probably the most famous Record Plant room 1:15:13.680 --> 1:15:19.280 because it did Stevie's entire classic period there. But they 1:15:19.439 --> 1:15:22.080 you know, Stone had had and Calgrin had a thing going. 1:15:22.120 --> 1:15:24.880 They said, you know, the joke was, hey, Calgrin, go 1:15:24.960 --> 1:15:27.599 out on the street and find me another Hendrix. What 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:30.400 he meant was find me an artist who had money, 1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:33.599 who could block book a studio for a year, who 1:15:33.640 --> 1:15:36.120 had no limits and how much money they want to spend, 1:15:36.200 --> 1:15:38.400 and just wanted to roll lots of tape because that 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:41.439 tape was made them a lot of money. So you know, 1:15:41.560 --> 1:15:46.280 Kelgrin was out always finding another Hendrix. And not only 1:15:46.320 --> 1:15:49.599 did they find Stevie Wonder, but you know another art 1:15:49.640 --> 1:15:53.800 you know, Sly Stone became that other another Hendrix uh 1:15:54.720 --> 1:15:58.000 for the studio when they built Scelito up north in 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:02.000 you know, near San Francisco. So Calgrin, you know, Kelgrin's 1:16:02.080 --> 1:16:04.479 name is on quite a number of albums. But you know, 1:16:04.960 --> 1:16:09.000 his legacy is maybe not so much his own credits 1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:12.800 as the people he schooled and the records that his 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:17.360 that were made, but based on his recording philosophy and 1:16:17.400 --> 1:16:20.960 these environments, creative environments that he created, that was his 1:16:21.080 --> 1:16:23.640 real that was his real trademark. 1:16:24.120 --> 1:16:29.200 Okay, tell us about the establishment of the record plant 1:16:29.200 --> 1:16:35.000 in Saucelito where sly Stone is the whale Fleewood Mac 1:16:35.120 --> 1:16:40.240 cuts rumors and they build this FORCCTA studio for sly. 1:16:43.400 --> 1:16:49.040 Right, Hey, whatever they whatever the artist wants, Okay, you're 1:16:49.040 --> 1:16:51.800 gonna get it. You want to pit, we'll do We'll 1:16:51.840 --> 1:16:55.640 do it. You want us to uh uh jackhammer at 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:59.360 the bottom of the basement so that we can make it, 1:16:59.479 --> 1:17:04.479 make it. Okay, it's too bad the bay is flooding 1:17:04.520 --> 1:17:07.120 the bottom of the studio. That's okay, we can fix that. 1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:12.960 So that was the that was the scene in sALS Alito. 1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:15.960 And and Calgrin wanted boats too. That's where he had 1:17:16.000 --> 1:17:20.280 those cigarette boats, that those speedboats, so you know they 1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:24.360 could They had helicopters delivering people to the studio and 1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:26.160 once you got there, you want to go out on 1:17:26.320 --> 1:17:30.679 the boat. Yeah, you know, George Martin worked with America there. 1:17:31.240 --> 1:17:36.800 Georgia loved boats too. So whatever the artist wanted during 1:17:36.840 --> 1:17:39.080 Billable time, they got. 1:17:41.000 --> 1:17:45.040 The studio you're talking about, David Employs was called the pit, 1:17:45.600 --> 1:17:49.080 all right. And let me just back up a little 1:17:49.080 --> 1:17:52.240 bit for a second, because remember Jimmy left New York 1:17:52.280 --> 1:17:55.720 to build electrically his own studio, right, but before he 1:17:56.040 --> 1:17:59.439 before they built uh, he built a studio. Calgrin knew 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:02.840 that Jimmy on his own room. So and they were 1:18:02.920 --> 1:18:05.360 they wanted to hold onto his business. They want in 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:07.559 New York, so they built a studio up on the 1:18:07.560 --> 1:18:09.760 tenth floor. There was just an ordinary room in an 1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:13.320 ordinary office building. Jimmy was like an ordinary businessman. We'd 1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:15.320 get into the elevator in New York, go up to 1:18:15.360 --> 1:18:19.080 the tenth floor and work. Right. So they got this idea, 1:18:19.160 --> 1:18:23.280 we could start building studios for the artist all right 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:25.479 and let him book it, let him pay for it, 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:27.800 let him own it, but we would operate it for 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:30.040 we would. They wouldn't have to own their own studio. 1:18:30.080 --> 1:18:31.680 It's a pain in the ass own a studio. Gott 1:18:31.680 --> 1:18:34.120 to hire people, gotta pay pay more, you gotta. You know, 1:18:34.160 --> 1:18:36.799 it's running a business. Watch an artists run a business 1:18:36.800 --> 1:18:39.639 when we can build it for them. Like I said, 1:18:39.680 --> 1:18:42.040 they built Studio B in La on Third Street for 1:18:42.080 --> 1:18:46.280 Stevie Wonder. It was a success. And and then they 1:18:46.280 --> 1:18:48.120 had their next whale as you call them, and they 1:18:48.160 --> 1:18:51.679 had they were building this building up north in Sauce Alito. 1:18:51.760 --> 1:18:56.599 Now Sauce Alito was their first attempt at a resort studio. 1:18:56.760 --> 1:19:00.360 If La got crazy and La got insane, you can 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:02.160 get out of town and go up to this laid 1:19:02.160 --> 1:19:05.880 back area in Sacelito, right by the by the by 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:10.200 the house boats by the bay. And Sly they had 1:19:10.240 --> 1:19:14.679 they had Sly as a customer. And you know, they 1:19:14.760 --> 1:19:18.000 they realized remember Sly had had a house for a 1:19:18.080 --> 1:19:20.960 time in the in bel Air, you know, with a 1:19:21.000 --> 1:19:24.200 studio in his house, right, you know, so he was 1:19:24.200 --> 1:19:27.560 not against or you know, new to the idea of 1:19:27.600 --> 1:19:30.360 having his own studio. But Sly, being Sly, had a 1:19:30.479 --> 1:19:34.160 unique concept. All right, what if we could build a 1:19:34.200 --> 1:19:37.160 studio that was a hole in the ground instead of 1:19:37.160 --> 1:19:40.000 being a room on the same level. We'll dig a 1:19:40.080 --> 1:19:43.120 giant ditch in the in the place and at the 1:19:43.200 --> 1:19:46.320 bottom of the of the of this giant hole, we'll 1:19:46.320 --> 1:19:49.760 put this put the recording console, We'll put the the 1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:55.360 tape machines and around, moving around above the artists, the 1:19:55.360 --> 1:19:57.960 the the musicians would sit on ledges and play the 1:19:58.000 --> 1:20:02.679 guitars and hang out in and perform. So like David, 1:20:03.360 --> 1:20:07.320 you know, said before, they jackhammered the floor in the 1:20:07.360 --> 1:20:10.280 in the studio and Uh and Saucelito the water from 1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:13.439 the base started pouring in. They pumped it out and 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:16.880 they built the pit. Now the pit was based on 1:20:16.880 --> 1:20:20.000 on Sly's idea for the for some for a studio 1:20:20.080 --> 1:20:22.679 where the artists could be on the on the below 1:20:23.080 --> 1:20:26.679 the performers. Now we asked Tom Fly who was Who 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:30.880 was sly Stones engineer for Fresh and one of the 1:20:30.880 --> 1:20:35.640 more brilliant engineers at Record Plant. And Tom Fly is 1:20:35.680 --> 1:20:38.240 another one of those unsung heroes of the Record Plant 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:42.080 that we could talk about. But I said to Fly, 1:20:42.200 --> 1:20:44.880 what was Sly's idea behind it? He said, let me 1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:47.080 tell you how I where he came that came from? 1:20:47.479 --> 1:20:51.439 He said, one day, one day Sly told him that 1:20:51.479 --> 1:20:54.400 he wanted, uh, he wanted rhinestones on the brim of 1:20:54.439 --> 1:20:57.960 a hat. Right. He had this concept that you know, 1:20:58.200 --> 1:21:02.360 for beautiful rhinestones the deck or hat. But unlike everybody 1:21:02.400 --> 1:21:05.400 else who were to put the rhinestones on the top 1:21:05.439 --> 1:21:08.719 of the hat, Sly had a unique idea. He wanted 1:21:08.720 --> 1:21:12.760 the rhinestones underneath the brim. He wanted to so that 1:21:12.840 --> 1:21:16.360 the hat was playing but underneath looking so he could 1:21:16.360 --> 1:21:18.799 look up. And I said to five, what was his concept? 1:21:18.800 --> 1:21:21.599 He said, if I'm gonna put rhinestones on a hat. 1:21:21.960 --> 1:21:24.599 I'm the one who wants to see the rhinestone, right, 1:21:24.680 --> 1:21:28.240 not everybody else. So I had the concept of looking 1:21:28.360 --> 1:21:31.679 up right, and that was Fly's well, that's what Fly 1:21:31.880 --> 1:21:35.280 said to us about. That was the genesis idea of 1:21:35.280 --> 1:21:38.760 that studio. Now, by the way, that studio sucked, right. 1:21:38.840 --> 1:21:41.120 That room was funny funk. It was a it was 1:21:41.160 --> 1:21:43.639 a it was a pit. It was a pit, literally 1:21:43.680 --> 1:21:45.920 a right, and it's you know, it was a money pit. 1:21:46.360 --> 1:21:48.840 Stone called it, you know, a white elephant. It was. 1:21:48.880 --> 1:21:52.759 It just said it was acoustically not a sound idea. Yeah, 1:21:53.040 --> 1:21:56.160 you know. Bill Wyman worked there, Van Morrison worked there, 1:21:56.160 --> 1:21:59.759 Al Cooper worked there. You know, Paris worked there. People 1:21:59.800 --> 1:22:02.240 were then. They couldn't get a hit out of the pit, right, 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:05.559 sly couldn't even get a hit out of the pit. 1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:09.040 There was only one There's only one artist who could 1:22:09.120 --> 1:22:11.240 get a hit out of the pit, and that was 1:22:11.320 --> 1:22:15.240 believe it or not, Stevie Nicks. Right, So Stevie Nicks 1:22:15.240 --> 1:22:17.679 and the Fleetwood mac are working as a sauce leader during 1:22:17.680 --> 1:22:20.160 the famous rumor session. Then there's a whole book written 1:22:20.200 --> 1:22:23.840 on rumors up up at Sauce Alito by Ken kela 1:22:24.439 --> 1:22:28.080 uh And and there's a Broadway play that knocked off 1:22:28.120 --> 1:22:32.000 that story called Stereophonic, Right, but you know so but 1:22:33.200 --> 1:22:35.479 so they're looking for you know, Stevie has an idea 1:22:35.520 --> 1:22:38.120 for a song. She's breaking up with Lindsey Bucket Min's 1:22:38.360 --> 1:22:42.559 it's everybody's heard about the legends of the drugs and 1:22:42.600 --> 1:22:45.439 the breakups and the craziness of rumor sessions of record 1:22:45.439 --> 1:22:48.760 plant Sauce Alito, and she's, you know, she's getting away 1:22:48.760 --> 1:22:50.960 from the craziness of the band. So she wanders around 1:22:50.960 --> 1:22:54.400 the studio and she comes across the pit, right, and 1:22:54.439 --> 1:22:57.360 she Now the pit was not only the studio, but 1:22:57.600 --> 1:23:02.200 Calgrin built a sly of bed off the side of 1:23:02.240 --> 1:23:05.160 the pit. Now that bedroom had curtains hanging down with 1:23:05.200 --> 1:23:07.519 the big lips on it that looked like the rolling stone, 1:23:07.800 --> 1:23:10.160 you know, tongue and lips. You go in, and there 1:23:10.200 --> 1:23:13.880 was a big bed with a big you know, velvet bedspread, 1:23:14.160 --> 1:23:16.280 and there was a patch base so he could hang 1:23:16.320 --> 1:23:18.679 out and play and patch into the studio from there. 1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:21.920 And there was even an escape hatch so he could 1:23:22.120 --> 1:23:24.280 escape if they got it in problems which came in 1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:29.480 handy later on, So Stevie Nicks walks into a Sly's bedroom, 1:23:29.800 --> 1:23:32.800 gets on the bed, you know, crosses her legs, has 1:23:32.800 --> 1:23:35.360 a little keyboard, has a little tape machine, and within 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:37.760 ten minutes, right, the biggest hit that came out of 1:23:37.760 --> 1:23:41.200 the pit. She wrote Dreams on the on that bed, 1:23:41.360 --> 1:23:44.599 on slies bedspread in the pit. One of the greatest 1:23:44.600 --> 1:23:47.320 songs of all time and certainly Fleetwood Max's biggest hit. 1:23:47.479 --> 1:23:50.639 Okay, ultimately was sold. It was called the Plant. It's 1:23:50.640 --> 1:23:54.680 still operating. Does the pit still exist now? 1:23:54.720 --> 1:23:57.519 The pit's long ago was filled and it's not in 1:23:57.560 --> 1:23:59.160 the new studio, it's gone. 1:24:00.080 --> 1:24:03.880 Okay, let's go back to la. You tell a couple 1:24:03.920 --> 1:24:09.600 of Phil Spector stories, can you, you know, give my 1:24:09.680 --> 1:24:10.679 audience a taste. 1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:14.840 Well, the word was if Phil walks in with a 1:24:14.840 --> 1:24:19.559 big Manila envelope and it's heavy, he's carrying a gun. 1:24:20.000 --> 1:24:22.120 And he was known for this. Sometimes he would come 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:26.240 in with like, you know, a like a Western star, 1:24:26.439 --> 1:24:33.560 with matching silver pistols, with ivory things. You know, that 1:24:33.920 --> 1:24:37.000 weren't the only guns that most of the time they 1:24:37.120 --> 1:24:40.840 checked their guns at the desk after you got after 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:45.760 buzz me in Gably and please leave your guns at 1:24:45.800 --> 1:24:52.240 the desk before you go into session. We interviewed many, 1:24:52.320 --> 1:24:57.760 many people about the famous gun shot by Phil Spector 1:24:57.960 --> 1:25:03.320 at Record Plant, at least ten stories, and they none 1:25:03.320 --> 1:25:07.040 of them coincide with each other. It's like the Raschamon 1:25:07.200 --> 1:25:13.120 movie from Kurosawa. Everybody had a different story. The culmination 1:25:13.360 --> 1:25:15.800 is that when they finally tore the studio down in 1:25:15.880 --> 1:25:22.880 eighty five, Marty interviewed one of the engineers who was 1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:27.000 responsible for dismantling the studio, Marty, why don't you tell 1:25:27.080 --> 1:25:30.640 them where the bullets ended up? Because there were bullets. 1:25:31.400 --> 1:25:34.360 There were people who said that, you know. Basically the 1:25:34.439 --> 1:25:38.400 story is Phil Spector almost killed John Lennon seven years 1:25:38.439 --> 1:25:41.720 before he'd ultimately was shot to death, all right, and 1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:44.120 that and he almost killed them the night one night 1:25:44.360 --> 1:25:46.960 during the lost weekend when he with Phil and he 1:25:47.000 --> 1:25:49.559 would work on a rock and roll album in La 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:52.760 at Record Plane. As David said, it was like a 1:25:52.840 --> 1:25:55.960 Raschamon story, a million different stories. Even some people said 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:59.559 it never happened. May Pang said that she saw you know, 1:26:00.600 --> 1:26:03.880 John saying he was holding his ears. Other people said 1:26:04.000 --> 1:26:07.320 that Phil Spector was in the toilet. Others said they 1:26:07.320 --> 1:26:11.200 were in the chacuzzie together. But years later, uh and 1:26:11.240 --> 1:26:12.960 we told all the stories. We figured, you know what, 1:26:13.160 --> 1:26:15.280 We're not gonna tell one story. We let everybody's story. 1:26:15.600 --> 1:26:17.960 So and we told all these different stories. It's no 1:26:18.120 --> 1:26:22.960 but one thing was clear. A gunshot went out. John 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:26.200 and Phil were together in one of the rooms, and 1:26:26.320 --> 1:26:29.519 uh and and but nobody could find the bullets. The 1:26:29.520 --> 1:26:32.160 bullet was gone. There was no bullets. But years later, 1:26:32.280 --> 1:26:35.040 the students Stone that they were tearing down the studio 1:26:35.040 --> 1:26:38.439 they were moving, and Stone had this beautiful wood paneling 1:26:38.479 --> 1:26:42.360 in his office and they and the carpenters were tearing 1:26:42.400 --> 1:26:44.719 down the tearing the wood because they were they wanted 1:26:44.720 --> 1:26:47.360 to save that wood and reuse it. And ultimately one 1:26:47.360 --> 1:26:49.120 of the carpenters took it home and put it in 1:26:49.160 --> 1:26:51.839 his garage. And years later, when he was building another studio, 1:26:52.200 --> 1:26:55.760 he said, I've got some great wood that that we 1:26:55.760 --> 1:26:58.920 can use for the studio. So he's took he took 1:26:58.920 --> 1:27:01.519 out a plane and started planing the wood, and you know, 1:27:01.760 --> 1:27:03.280 and doing the work on the wood, and all of 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:05.560 a sudden, he hits something, and he hits and he 1:27:05.640 --> 1:27:07.840 hits another thing, and he digs into the wood, and 1:27:07.880 --> 1:27:11.679 there are these slugs, bullet slugs that were that were 1:27:11.680 --> 1:27:14.559 preserved all those years later in this wood from stones 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:19.400 from Stone's office. So, you know, the important thing about 1:27:19.439 --> 1:27:21.360 John Lennon and I think it's you know and Phil 1:27:21.400 --> 1:27:26.880 Spector is the dydemic of Phil Spector and John are 1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:29.879 very much part of the you know, the the legacy 1:27:29.920 --> 1:27:33.920 of record Plan. John and Phil worked together on Imagine 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:38.040 overdubs July fourth weekend in nineteen seventy one at Record 1:27:38.080 --> 1:27:45.560 Plant with Roy Sakala, his engineer, Shelleyakis, and Jack Douglas. Yeah, 1:27:45.680 --> 1:27:49.920 he Phil was there worked with George Harrison on on 1:27:49.960 --> 1:27:55.040 the Record Plant's first remote concert for Begladesh uh And 1:27:55.040 --> 1:27:59.920 and Phil went out to La with John when he moved. 1:28:00.280 --> 1:28:04.240 Began the last weekend and they started working at A 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:06.920 and M. Now it's interesting if you look on Facebook, 1:28:06.920 --> 1:28:10.040 it's funny this week there's there's this famous console at 1:28:10.080 --> 1:28:14.640 A and M that was just just being preserved. Is 1:28:15.000 --> 1:28:18.080 go on the A and M alumni site on Facebook 1:28:18.080 --> 1:28:20.080 and you'll see this console was just was being put 1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:25.040 in storage, this famous Hako console. And John and John 1:28:25.479 --> 1:28:28.800 and Roy and Phil Spector who are working on the 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:31.680 rock and roll Alem at A and M and suddenly, 1:28:31.920 --> 1:28:36.160 you know, uh, they get thrown out. There was years 1:28:36.240 --> 1:28:41.719 later there was a letter from John uh that said 1:28:41.720 --> 1:28:45.639 what happened? Explain what happened? That basically, Keith Moon peed 1:28:45.760 --> 1:28:51.320 on the console and then pissed off the management at AM. 1:28:51.360 --> 1:28:54.160 They threw him out. Right, who's gonna take you know, 1:28:54.240 --> 1:28:56.559 an artist who peed on one of these most expensive 1:28:56.600 --> 1:28:59.680 consoles and call and and by the way, gunshots also went. 1:28:59.800 --> 1:29:01.840 We're the guns were flying at A and AM also 1:29:01.880 --> 1:29:04.760 those days. So who was going to take these maniacs? Right? 1:29:05.439 --> 1:29:07.439 Only the record plant would take them. So they moved 1:29:07.479 --> 1:29:10.800 everybody over the record plant and uh and while John 1:29:10.920 --> 1:29:14.720 was there, Phil and he worked on the worked on 1:29:14.720 --> 1:29:17.599 on the rock and Roll album until Phil flip flipped 1:29:17.600 --> 1:29:21.799 out and stole the tapes and disappeared, and John stayed 1:29:21.800 --> 1:29:24.040 there working with Roy and Jimmy. I been with Harry 1:29:24.120 --> 1:29:30.400 Nielsen on Pussycats. But uh, the Phil Spector story of 1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:34.160 the gunshots is legendary, and it definitely happened because we've 1:29:34.200 --> 1:29:42.400 you know, we know the guy who found the bullets. 1:29:45.400 --> 1:29:49.960 Okay, another story that's well detailed is Stevie Wonder you 1:29:50.080 --> 1:29:57.120 go into Tonto the original megasynthesizer, Robert Marklof and Malcolm Cecil. 1:29:57.520 --> 1:30:01.280 I've heard Marklos's version. You would do a better take 1:30:01.320 --> 1:30:05.200 in the book of how Stevie actually meets them. I 1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:09.120 want to hear what your understanding of why the ultimate 1:30:09.240 --> 1:30:13.400 rupture between those two entities after a number of albums. 1:30:13.920 --> 1:30:15.280 You want to take debby, you want me to go. 1:30:16.600 --> 1:30:22.320 Look, I've I'm friends with Bob. Marty interviewed Malcolm before 1:30:22.320 --> 1:30:28.439 he passed away. It's an it's an uncomfortable conversation. Yeah, 1:30:28.479 --> 1:30:31.800 you take it and I'll back listen. It's rock and roll. 1:30:31.880 --> 1:30:35.080 So it all comes down to money, right, Well that's told. 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:40.000 But but Mark and Bob's a friend, and we love Bob. 1:30:40.040 --> 1:30:41.240 We just saw him in a book signing. 1:30:41.280 --> 1:30:43.479 And you know, Bob's you know, one of the great 1:30:43.479 --> 1:30:46.160 engineers and produce of all time, and and and he's 1:30:46.479 --> 1:30:49.719 he's a friend. But he and he and Malcolm were 1:30:50.000 --> 1:30:53.559 an interesting, uh partnership, you know, the agreed and deduct 1:30:53.560 --> 1:30:55.960 Well they were their own, they were their own relationship, right, 1:30:56.320 --> 1:30:58.559 So let me let me take you take you through it. Right, 1:30:58.960 --> 1:31:02.320 they're in New York, Jim, you know, they're working at 1:31:02.479 --> 1:31:06.599 Electric Lady studios, filling Electric Lady after Jimmy Jimmy died 1:31:07.280 --> 1:31:11.799 and filling the time and uh and that's when uh, 1:31:12.280 --> 1:31:17.400 Malcolm shows, uh shows Stevie the magic of the synthesizer. 1:31:17.520 --> 1:31:21.599 Now the synthesizer is not just an ordinary synthesizer. He's 1:31:21.680 --> 1:31:24.240 come up with this concept that he concludes together all 1:31:24.320 --> 1:31:27.479 these odd pieces and make it work. So it's so 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:31.960 it's almost created an electronics orchestra. But it took took 1:31:32.080 --> 1:31:35.400 basically three people to operate it. It took the musician 1:31:35.479 --> 1:31:38.040 sitting in a keyboard, you know. And it took two 1:31:38.120 --> 1:31:42.800 guys Malcolm and Margolf and Bob too uh to with 1:31:42.880 --> 1:31:46.679 a patch bay plugging everything in. Uh. They at while 1:31:46.720 --> 1:31:49.639 they were an Electric Lady, they were they they worked 1:31:49.760 --> 1:31:54.840 on on this and John Stork, who designed Electric Lady 1:31:54.840 --> 1:32:00.000 for Jimmy, built this magnificent this magnificent cabinetry for the synthesize. 1:32:00.760 --> 1:32:03.720 It only had one major problem. The major problem was 1:32:03.800 --> 1:32:06.800 no studio could house the damn thing. It was too big. 1:32:07.240 --> 1:32:10.720 They when Stevie wanted to move out to lay they 1:32:11.080 --> 1:32:14.040 moved in with Crystal for a time. But you know, 1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:18.320 nobody wanted to book a studio with you know, with 1:32:18.400 --> 1:32:21.880 this monstrous synthesizer, the Stevie that made all those early 1:32:21.960 --> 1:32:25.599 sounds of the classic period, but you couldn't house it. 1:32:26.040 --> 1:32:31.759 So they realized they had a book a studio around 1:32:31.800 --> 1:32:35.280 the clock. Magic is Chris Stone's ears. Remember, you know, 1:32:35.600 --> 1:32:37.760 I love a block book and I want to I 1:32:37.760 --> 1:32:40.240 want my new I want another Jimmy. Well, you know, 1:32:40.920 --> 1:32:46.200 Malcolm and Bob and Stevie became the next artist. So 1:32:47.000 --> 1:32:50.360 they they moved over to record Plant, and and and 1:32:50.720 --> 1:32:54.400 Stone built, you know, Stone let them build in their 1:32:54.439 --> 1:33:02.200 own studio, studio be a very mundane, ordinary record recording 1:33:02.240 --> 1:33:06.080 studio that just so happened to do inter visions, talking books, 1:33:06.080 --> 1:33:09.000 fulfilling this much of songs in the key of life, right, 1:33:09.280 --> 1:33:12.000 some of the most magical records of all time during 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:15.000 that period those four years they were working there. You know, 1:33:15.160 --> 1:33:19.000 there were there were almost three hundred songs in the 1:33:19.080 --> 1:33:23.280 in the archive there all right, So the magical time 1:33:23.360 --> 1:33:26.000 for them, and it was a force. It was really 1:33:26.040 --> 1:33:29.639 four partners. It was Stevie the artist, It was Malcolm 1:33:29.640 --> 1:33:33.200 who built Tonto, and Bob Whew who taught him how 1:33:33.200 --> 1:33:36.280 to manipulate it and make these great sounds, right, and 1:33:36.360 --> 1:33:39.160 studio b was the room. It had the magic. 1:33:39.360 --> 1:33:42.240 It was it was it was a quad room. We 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:45.320 should mention that quad was the latest thing. And this 1:33:45.400 --> 1:33:47.479 is the first time that Steve could be in the 1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:52.000 middle of all the music and with the help of 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:57.880 Margolev and Cecil, the three of them operating it. He 1:33:57.960 --> 1:34:02.040 could think of things and those guys as a team 1:34:02.600 --> 1:34:05.120 could create the sound that was in his mind. 1:34:07.600 --> 1:34:10.799 But they so they were making hits. But remember Bob 1:34:11.520 --> 1:34:13.479 and Malcolm went out the greatest business that they do 1:34:13.640 --> 1:34:16.400 have a Stone. You know, they didn't exactly have the 1:34:16.439 --> 1:34:19.880 best deal. They had no points. You know, they had 1:34:19.920 --> 1:34:22.400 a good gig. They were making money. But then you 1:34:22.400 --> 1:34:25.960 know what uh they were, you know, things were coming apart. 1:34:26.080 --> 1:34:29.600 Now Malcolm and I've unfortunately before he passed away, I 1:34:29.640 --> 1:34:32.639 spent a lot of time on the interviewing Malcolm. Malcolm 1:34:32.680 --> 1:34:35.400 was a genius. He was a bass player from England. 1:34:35.439 --> 1:34:38.680 Worked with Jeff Beck work with the Rolling Stones, did 1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:42.679 you know, did some amazing work, you know, both both 1:34:43.439 --> 1:34:45.479 working an orchestra as well as rock and roll, and 1:34:45.560 --> 1:34:49.000 built and was was an inventor and built Tonto. But 1:34:49.040 --> 1:34:53.280 it could be a little difficult and uh he started pushing, 1:34:53.680 --> 1:34:57.479 you know, pushing Stevie a little bit hard. Remember Stevie, 1:34:58.120 --> 1:35:00.880 Stevie was very rich at the time, had made some 1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:05.280 really good deals with the with the motown and UH 1:35:05.520 --> 1:35:08.519 and he you know, at one point, you know, he 1:35:08.640 --> 1:35:13.280 started pushing Stevie to make, you know, to sing in 1:35:13.320 --> 1:35:16.320 a way that he wasn't comfortable, to make him sound angry. 1:35:16.360 --> 1:35:18.559 He was just pushing him, trying to make him angry. 1:35:18.600 --> 1:35:20.519 So he said, I'm not getting the sounds out of 1:35:20.520 --> 1:35:23.639 He started he started pulling the plug on him every 1:35:23.640 --> 1:35:25.920 single time, and he and more he pulled the pulled 1:35:25.920 --> 1:35:27.840 the plug on and the more Stevie get pissed off, 1:35:27.960 --> 1:35:31.479 and the more Malcolm got got the sound and got 1:35:31.479 --> 1:35:34.000 the vocal out of Stevie that he wanted, but it 1:35:34.200 --> 1:35:38.559 left it left damage between the relationship and UH, and 1:35:38.840 --> 1:35:41.479 you know, they started fighting, and it was really they 1:35:41.520 --> 1:35:44.040 started They said, you know what, our deal sucks. We 1:35:44.080 --> 1:35:46.800 don't have enough deal here. We need we need we 1:35:46.840 --> 1:35:48.840 need to make sure we're cut in on these three 1:35:48.920 --> 1:35:51.000 hundred songs. We got to make sure we're making some 1:35:51.040 --> 1:35:53.519 real money. So they hired a lawyer and they got 1:35:53.560 --> 1:35:55.600 they went they went to and they went to the 1:35:55.640 --> 1:35:59.000 match with Stevie. Uh, they spent about fifty grand I 1:35:59.040 --> 1:36:01.200 think in those days, and with lawyers, which is a 1:36:01.200 --> 1:36:04.160 big money in those days. And and you know what, 1:36:04.840 --> 1:36:07.960 Malcolm goes to Bob and says, this only way we're 1:36:07.960 --> 1:36:11.799 going to get the deal is if we take the tapes. Remember, 1:36:12.160 --> 1:36:14.880 the tapes in those d's were everything, right, They weren't 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:17.360 digital files, they weren't all over the internet. If you 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:19.839 had the tapes, you had the masters, you had everything. 1:36:20.240 --> 1:36:22.800 You know. Phil Spector stole the rope rock and roll 1:36:22.880 --> 1:36:25.680 tapes from John Lennon and held them out, held them 1:36:25.680 --> 1:36:28.639 out so he could get Capital Records to pay him off. 1:36:28.720 --> 1:36:32.519 Right for him, he wanted to protect those tapes. Frank 1:36:32.640 --> 1:36:36.599 Zappa used to travel with his tapes. Sly Stone had 1:36:36.600 --> 1:36:40.960 a Toyota jeep where he kept his entire archive with 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:44.280 armed guards. Right, so you held onto the tapes. Well, 1:36:45.080 --> 1:36:49.799 those days, Malcolm and Bob had the keys to the archive. 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:52.240 So Malcolm was Malcolm said, all right, the only way 1:36:52.280 --> 1:36:54.639 we're going to get our deals is is holding onto 1:36:54.680 --> 1:36:59.240 those tapes. Right. Well, before they were able to do that, 1:36:59.680 --> 1:37:04.799 guess what, Stevie's guys cleared out the tapes and Malcolm 1:37:04.880 --> 1:37:08.640 went crazy. He blamed Stone, and Stone denied it, but 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:10.840 who knows what really happened, But he denied that. He 1:37:10.920 --> 1:37:14.000 gave it, gave Motown or Stevie's management the keys to 1:37:14.040 --> 1:37:16.000 the tape, but those tapes were gone. He lost the 1:37:16.240 --> 1:37:19.320 lost the leverage, right. So Malcolm said, all right, we're 1:37:19.320 --> 1:37:22.120 done with Stevie Wonder And Bob said, are you sure 1:37:22.160 --> 1:37:23.960 we want to be done with Stevie Wonder. We're on 1:37:24.000 --> 1:37:25.960 a ride here, man. He said, we're done with him. 1:37:25.960 --> 1:37:29.519 We're done with him now. He Malcolm and Bob had 1:37:29.560 --> 1:37:32.639 a had a deal. You know, one of them was out. 1:37:32.680 --> 1:37:36.880 They were both out, and they those two they had 1:37:36.880 --> 1:37:38.960 a falling out because because Bob didn't want to leave, 1:37:39.840 --> 1:37:44.320 and uh, and it ended. You know, it's there's no 1:37:44.439 --> 1:37:47.640 hard feelings anymore between Bob. Bob's worked everything out and 1:37:47.680 --> 1:37:50.599 I think everything was been taken care with Stevie long term. 1:37:50.640 --> 1:37:53.240 But at that time it was a very contentious relationship 1:37:53.600 --> 1:37:55.880 and it all came crumbling down. And the last album 1:37:56.000 --> 1:37:58.519 they did together was fulfilling this. They had a bunch 1:37:58.560 --> 1:38:01.800 of songs on Songs in the Kia Life, but Songs 1:38:01.800 --> 1:38:05.400 in the Kia Life was not was not a cecil 1:38:06.400 --> 1:38:09.000 Mark Lift Tonto Stevie Wonder production. 1:38:09.479 --> 1:38:12.759 And that was the emergence of a new engineer, Gary 1:38:12.880 --> 1:38:17.040 Olazabal whose name is now Gary A. Dante. I was 1:38:17.080 --> 1:38:19.880 just in touch with him for a couple of days ago, 1:38:20.360 --> 1:38:24.479 and they're still working together. So the saga goes on, 1:38:25.120 --> 1:38:28.800 and uh, I think the vibe now between Steve and 1:38:28.880 --> 1:38:34.160 Bob is just fine. Uh some thing's just received into 1:38:34.200 --> 1:38:40.560 the past. Because without a doubt that that three man triumvirate, 1:38:41.120 --> 1:38:44.240 that record plant in the room that was designed to 1:38:44.240 --> 1:38:48.800 be a quad room, well it without a doubt it 1:38:48.920 --> 1:38:50.960 made history. It's still with us now. 1:38:51.520 --> 1:38:54.479 You know, even even though Stevie Ultimate left record Plant, 1:38:54.680 --> 1:38:57.360 you know after you know, although you know, songs in 1:38:57.400 --> 1:39:01.800 the Kui Life was recorded, Uh much of it was 1:39:01.800 --> 1:39:05.000 recorded up in La and in Soslito. It was recorded 1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:10.320 crystal in other places as well. Obviously the important thing 1:39:10.320 --> 1:39:13.120 to know is he never left the record plant because 1:39:13.240 --> 1:39:17.360 he ended up buying or no leasing, he leasing the 1:39:17.400 --> 1:39:20.720 record plant truck and parking at it and parking it 1:39:20.760 --> 1:39:23.280 outside of his house. It was his house, you know, 1:39:23.439 --> 1:39:27.000 at Wonderland, and and uh I think it was stud 1:39:27.160 --> 1:39:28.960 his main studio for many years later. 1:39:29.880 --> 1:39:32.639 Now you talk about the truck in the book, how 1:39:32.800 --> 1:39:35.679 Wally Hyder, who had his own studios with his own name, 1:39:36.240 --> 1:39:39.200 ultimately teaches him how to do it and they split 1:39:39.280 --> 1:39:42.840 up the country. But then the record plant guys kind 1:39:42.840 --> 1:39:44.840 of finagel whatever. So tell us about that. 1:39:46.320 --> 1:39:51.840 The first record Plant remote was concert for Bangled Dish. Right, 1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:54.879 how do you how do you how do you top that? Right? Uh? 1:39:54.920 --> 1:40:00.400 And you know Kelgrin was working with George Harrison and 1:40:00.560 --> 1:40:04.000 uh In l A and Harrison told me needed a truck. 1:40:04.040 --> 1:40:06.679 He said, I'll get you. We'll do it. He didn't 1:40:06.680 --> 1:40:09.880 have a truck. You couldn't build a truck, right, couldn't 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:12.400 build a truck. Hyder had a truck. He had an 1:40:12.400 --> 1:40:15.920 old truck, and that became known as the White Truck 1:40:16.040 --> 1:40:18.640 years for many many years. I think it rolled for 1:40:18.640 --> 1:40:21.960 about forty five years, you know, even after it went 1:40:22.000 --> 1:40:26.240 off independently. Right, But the deal was Calgown and Stone 1:40:26.280 --> 1:40:29.160 were good businessmen, so they, you know, like the mafia, 1:40:29.240 --> 1:40:31.919 you cut up the country, right, Like like concert promoters 1:40:31.960 --> 1:40:34.400 you can have you can have Philadelphia, I'll take New York, 1:40:34.439 --> 1:40:37.439 you can get Chicago. Well, Well, the deal was, you 1:40:37.479 --> 1:40:40.599 know what I'll leaseh you this truck or sell you 1:40:40.640 --> 1:40:44.639 this truck, but you can't do anything west of the 1:40:44.680 --> 1:40:47.519 west of the Mississippi. And of course they said, you know, 1:40:48.000 --> 1:40:51.360 we'll do we'll do it right. So there, you know, 1:40:51.680 --> 1:40:54.760 the you know, the Record Plan truck stayed in New York. 1:40:55.240 --> 1:40:58.400 White truck became the New York truck you know, did 1:40:58.600 --> 1:41:02.160 and rolled tape and rubber for many, many years. As 1:41:02.160 --> 1:41:04.920 I said, But sooner or later there was the demand 1:41:04.960 --> 1:41:09.920 for live albums became so popular, especially after Frampton and 1:41:09.960 --> 1:41:13.519 all the other live albums started happening, that demand just 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:16.679 took off. And you know what, it was a handshake deal. 1:41:16.840 --> 1:41:18.920 There was no contract. There was no deal on this. 1:41:19.000 --> 1:41:21.080 It's like, all right, you know what. Suddenly you know, 1:41:21.240 --> 1:41:24.040 there were Record Plan trucks in Sos Alito. There's a 1:41:24.080 --> 1:41:27.839 Record Plan trucks in LA and the white truck remained 1:41:28.240 --> 1:41:31.240 in Maine Park outside on forty four seet when it 1:41:31.320 --> 1:41:33.000 wasn't rolling all over the East coast. 1:41:33.479 --> 1:41:38.680 Okay, just as a side note, Wally Hyder, what was 1:41:38.720 --> 1:41:43.160 his genius and why was he in lore eclipsed from 1:41:43.280 --> 1:41:44.240 by the Record Plan. 1:41:47.000 --> 1:41:56.200 I remember there there was no refrigerator at Wally's studio. Actually, Wally, 1:41:56.439 --> 1:41:58.760 I think I met him. He used to have a 1:41:58.760 --> 1:42:02.479 studio here in La long time ago. He was one 1:42:02.520 --> 1:42:06.120 of the legendary genius as of recording, well known in 1:42:06.160 --> 1:42:09.720 San Francisco. David Schwartz, founder of Mixed magazine, got his 1:42:09.800 --> 1:42:13.360 third working for Wally. Uh. He was a legend. I 1:42:13.880 --> 1:42:17.160 don't know too much beyond that really well, you know. 1:42:17.160 --> 1:42:19.639 Remember he was like like many of these early day 1:42:19.640 --> 1:42:24.360 recording studios. He was studio engineers and owners. He was 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:27.559 a hobbyist, right. He He had a he had a uh, 1:42:28.479 --> 1:42:30.920 I guess a station wagon with a tape recorder, and 1:42:30.920 --> 1:42:33.840 he used to go around the country tape recording jazz 1:42:33.920 --> 1:42:38.400 bands and built a very large, uh and very important 1:42:38.400 --> 1:42:42.200 collection of tapes of of jazz grades around the country, 1:42:42.200 --> 1:42:46.400 and built the studio in Sarcelito that you know, obviously 1:42:46.680 --> 1:42:51.200 was pivotal to the success of uh, you know, of 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:54.400 of the San Francisco bands, and then ultimately built built 1:42:54.439 --> 1:42:57.360 in l A uh you know where obviously where a 1:42:57.360 --> 1:43:01.880 lot of artists could could work. It was not as flashy, 1:43:02.320 --> 1:43:04.960 it was not full of the creature comforts that record 1:43:04.960 --> 1:43:07.720 plant was noted for. It had its following. And I 1:43:07.720 --> 1:43:10.080 wouldn't say record Plant the clips that maybe you know 1:43:10.120 --> 1:43:12.840 from it from a standpoint of money and success, I 1:43:12.880 --> 1:43:16.240 can't measure that for you. But certainly it had its following, 1:43:16.280 --> 1:43:19.639 you know, Cosby Stills in Nash loved, you know, loved. 1:43:19.680 --> 1:43:21.800 They didn't like record Plant, they loved, you know, they 1:43:21.800 --> 1:43:24.360 felt it was too flashy some people remember record Plant 1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:27.240 was too flashy for some people. It was too crazy 1:43:27.479 --> 1:43:29.839 party scene for people. You know, it was too public 1:43:29.920 --> 1:43:32.719 for some people. Uh, you know, a place like Hyder 1:43:32.720 --> 1:43:34.920 had its following it. Hyder was a great engineer and 1:43:34.920 --> 1:43:38.479 he taught some amazing people, but like David said, he 1:43:38.600 --> 1:43:42.280 wasn't full of serving the artists with the creature comforts 1:43:42.560 --> 1:43:44.639 that the record Plant was known about. And the story 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:48.519 that the story that David's talking about the refrigerator is, 1:43:48.880 --> 1:43:51.960 you know, Calais and the room, Ken Calay and the 1:43:52.040 --> 1:43:54.640 rumors crew for Fleetwear Mac are working, you know and 1:43:54.680 --> 1:43:58.839 getting everything they want up in up in sas Alito, 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:01.920 and they decide, you know what we need to change 1:44:01.920 --> 1:44:03.320 the place. We got to go down to l A. 1:44:03.439 --> 1:44:05.519 You know, it's good to finish the album. So they 1:44:05.560 --> 1:44:09.360 go down to LA and Kelly's a former student assistant 1:44:09.360 --> 1:44:13.000 and engineer it for for a Hider. So he said, chooses, 1:44:13.240 --> 1:44:17.040 you know, he chooses working and finishing up the record 1:44:17.080 --> 1:44:22.000 rumors at at at Wally Hider Studio in la And 1:44:22.040 --> 1:44:24.080 at one point, you know what, the band says, you 1:44:24.080 --> 1:44:27.880 know what, we'd like a refrigerator in the studio. So 1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:30.320 kela Ay picks up the phone, calls the front desk 1:44:30.400 --> 1:44:33.680 and says, uh, uh you know, uh, couldn't you get 1:44:33.720 --> 1:44:37.360 refrigerator over here? He said? They said, what a refrigerator? 1:44:37.640 --> 1:44:40.960 And he said, yeah, get a refrigerator here said they didn't 1:44:41.000 --> 1:44:42.640 have refrigerator him, and they said, all right, you know 1:44:42.680 --> 1:44:44.559 what you want tofrigerate to get it, but you know what, 1:44:45.160 --> 1:44:47.720 you guys, come out here and carry it yourself. 1:44:48.000 --> 1:44:51.280 Right or that put or go to the record plant. 1:44:51.760 --> 1:44:53.559 Or go to the or go to the record plan 1:44:53.600 --> 1:44:56.479 where they'll and guess what they said, Okay, we'll go 1:44:56.479 --> 1:45:00.439 to the record plan because remember the record plan ends. 1:45:01.240 --> 1:45:05.080 Whole business model was serving the art. You want that 1:45:05.160 --> 1:45:07.560 you want to you want a refrigerator, we'll get your refrigerator. 1:45:07.920 --> 1:45:11.200 You want, you know, whatever you want, we'll get you 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:13.440 because we want to keep your business. 1:45:13.280 --> 1:45:15.479 One point that you're making the book. They would get 1:45:15.479 --> 1:45:19.840 whatever they want, but they'd charge the label, of course. 1:45:20.040 --> 1:45:22.080 Yeah. 1:45:22.240 --> 1:45:24.960 It was by the way, nothing was nothing was free. Man. 1:45:25.320 --> 1:45:28.400 They were selling. They were selling service. It's like a hotel. 1:45:28.479 --> 1:45:30.760 You want, you know, go into the the mini bar 1:45:30.840 --> 1:45:33.519 in any hotel, man, and and how much you're paying. 1:45:33.640 --> 1:45:37.360 It's this was the hotel business, you know. They were selling. 1:45:37.400 --> 1:45:40.600 They were selling rooms in time and services. 1:45:40.920 --> 1:45:44.479 Yeah. Bill Simsick is working, uh, you know with some 1:45:44.520 --> 1:45:53.280 of the biggest acts imaginable, and a Stone asked them, hey, 1:45:53.360 --> 1:45:55.400 you know, hey Bill, you know, why don't you do 1:45:55.479 --> 1:45:58.639 this or something like this. Look, I'm working for the label. 1:45:59.000 --> 1:46:01.479 He says, do you have a what kind of a 1:46:01.520 --> 1:46:04.519 sound system do you have at home? So? I don't 1:46:04.560 --> 1:46:07.880 have anything, really I wish I did. The next day, 1:46:09.200 --> 1:46:14.880 a complete ultimate Hi Fi system is delivered to cimsics 1:46:14.960 --> 1:46:20.200 house and guess what it just ended up as a charge, 1:46:20.240 --> 1:46:24.120 a rental charge. So take care of the artists. 1:46:25.520 --> 1:46:27.559 Can you tell me a little bit about the three 1:46:27.760 --> 1:46:31.000 rooms at the Record play in La where Shenanigans take place? 1:46:32.439 --> 1:46:37.400 Sure? Well. They were called the Rack Room, the Sissy Room, 1:46:37.680 --> 1:46:40.639 and the boat Room. The boat room was like kind 1:46:40.640 --> 1:46:42.960 of a if you wanted to get away, you could 1:46:43.439 --> 1:46:48.040 climb aboard the ss Boat Room and you've had a bed, 1:46:48.280 --> 1:46:52.040 you've had chairs, you've had probably your own sound system. 1:46:53.120 --> 1:46:58.200 They even had a special secret room in there called 1:47:00.280 --> 1:47:08.080 the Anne Frank Room. The Sissy Room was a big 1:47:08.120 --> 1:47:11.040 plush bed with curtains and you know, it was just 1:47:12.200 --> 1:47:17.439 very feminine and very comfortable and the ultimate in that direction. 1:47:18.320 --> 1:47:20.960 And then the rack room, well it did have if 1:47:21.040 --> 1:47:26.560 you wanted to get into that. It had mechanical gears 1:47:26.600 --> 1:47:32.920 and ropes and pulleys and probably velvet covered handcuffs and 1:47:32.960 --> 1:47:35.680 things like that. I don't think it was a serious, 1:47:36.520 --> 1:47:40.479 you know, torture chamber, but it added that kind of 1:47:40.560 --> 1:47:45.400 flavor of you know, the dark side of rock and roll. 1:47:46.720 --> 1:47:49.479 But it became part of the theme idea of Record 1:47:49.479 --> 1:47:53.679 Plant and the ultimate dream of Kelgrin and if Stone 1:47:53.680 --> 1:47:58.280 could finance it was to build a series of rock 1:47:58.320 --> 1:48:02.760 and roll hotels, ultimate five star hotels all over the 1:48:02.840 --> 1:48:07.280 country that also had the best recording studios, so the 1:48:07.400 --> 1:48:09.400 artists would always have a place where they could be 1:48:09.439 --> 1:48:13.120 comfortable and they could record anything they wanted to. 1:48:14.520 --> 1:48:17.759 You know, at these hotel rooms. And the back record plant. 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:25.599 Not only were kinky and and artful and private. People 1:48:25.600 --> 1:48:27.280 could do whatever they want. You want to crash, and 1:48:27.880 --> 1:48:30.240 a session musician wants a crash as a bed. You 1:48:30.280 --> 1:48:32.160 want to you know, bring your girlfriend, your wife, whatever. 1:48:32.200 --> 1:48:34.160 In there. You can do whatever you want. You could 1:48:34.160 --> 1:48:37.920 write songs in there. They rented for fifty dollars an hour. 1:48:38.280 --> 1:48:41.479 They were rentable time, and people just camped out on them. 1:48:41.880 --> 1:48:44.240 The original idea was to help the artist, help the 1:48:44.320 --> 1:48:47.520 musicians have a place to crash between sessions. They obviously 1:48:47.560 --> 1:48:53.360 became more when Stone and Kelgrin wrote a business plan 1:48:53.560 --> 1:48:59.080 the very beginning. Frankie Revsen right, that was part of 1:48:59.080 --> 1:49:03.160 the business model. They were going to build hotels. It 1:49:03.200 --> 1:49:05.559 was Stone said it. From the earliest days. He and 1:49:05.560 --> 1:49:07.639 the Stone were talking about that not only were they 1:49:07.640 --> 1:49:09.840 going to rent studio time, but they were going to 1:49:09.920 --> 1:49:13.479 rent hotel rooms along with it. You know, in nineteen 1:49:13.720 --> 1:49:19.240 seventy five that Stone and Kelgrin we were, you know, 1:49:19.280 --> 1:49:23.280 having business problems. They were not getting along, but and 1:49:23.320 --> 1:49:27.519 they and they they ended up in People magazine. It 1:49:27.640 --> 1:49:30.479 was a it was a big photo spread. It was 1:49:30.479 --> 1:49:34.559 a big photo spread of the hotel rooms and at 1:49:34.640 --> 1:49:36.680 record plan you see you can see these photos in 1:49:36.720 --> 1:49:40.360 our book, and the People magazine in the in the 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:43.639 in the mid seventies was huge, right, everybody saw these 1:49:43.680 --> 1:49:46.840 all right, every every musician and every house household in 1:49:46.840 --> 1:49:49.839 American probably had that People magazine. And there was Calgrin 1:49:49.880 --> 1:49:52.360 in the jacuzzi, and there was Marta Kelgrin on this bed, 1:49:52.400 --> 1:49:56.160 and there were women in another bed, and and in 1:49:56.200 --> 1:50:00.360 that In that mid seventies article in People magazine, again, 1:50:00.439 --> 1:50:05.519 Calgrin had the idea of building hotel rooms, right that 1:50:05.600 --> 1:50:09.560 they wanted to be in that business. And not surprisingly 1:50:10.000 --> 1:50:11.880 and we can if you want to dig into the 1:50:11.880 --> 1:50:15.880 Hotel California part of this story. You know what a 1:50:15.960 --> 1:50:19.280 band called the Eagles had been working in in this 1:50:19.479 --> 1:50:23.240 in the record plan during that period. And who knows 1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:26.600 where the title Hotel California came from, but there's no 1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:30.839 question about the fact that hotels for rock and rollers 1:50:31.080 --> 1:50:34.479 was very much part of the business scheme and the 1:50:34.479 --> 1:50:35.080 business plan. 1:50:42.840 --> 1:50:45.400 Okay, So tell me a story from one of these 1:50:45.479 --> 1:50:50.400 artists that didn't make the book. 1:50:51.040 --> 1:50:57.479 Hmmm, I don't. I think we got everybody in there 1:50:57.520 --> 1:51:03.720 that we could reach. No, I think I think we covered. 1:51:03.479 --> 1:51:05.439 Okay, let me put it in a different way it 1:51:05.520 --> 1:51:07.160 is sex drugs in rock and. 1:51:07.160 --> 1:51:09.200 Roll and audio. 1:51:09.320 --> 1:51:12.599 Were there stories, some stories that were great to hear, 1:51:12.760 --> 1:51:14.559 but beyond the piss that we just can't. 1:51:14.400 --> 1:51:18.479 Print that, No, I don't think so. I don't think 1:51:18.520 --> 1:51:23.360 there was any severe trait people were. You know, it's 1:51:23.360 --> 1:51:28.679 still happening today. We've got macho men and and uh, 1:51:28.880 --> 1:51:31.639 stuff like that going on. It's probably worse now than 1:51:31.680 --> 1:51:35.720 it was then. Uh No, I think we I think 1:51:35.720 --> 1:51:40.479 we told enough to to cover that that angle. Of course, 1:51:40.479 --> 1:51:42.799 we had to tell that part of the story because 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:47.519 that environment really was a part of the music that 1:51:47.640 --> 1:51:51.240 came out at that time. You know, it was like 1:51:52.240 --> 1:51:55.320 it was. It was a time where it was it 1:51:55.360 --> 1:52:01.600 was you know, love INDs, There was birth control pills, 1:52:02.160 --> 1:52:07.800 there was pot, There was you know, before cocaine was 1:52:07.840 --> 1:52:11.080 found to be you know, more than just a recreational drug. 1:52:11.720 --> 1:52:15.000 But there was plenty of time where this the combination 1:52:15.160 --> 1:52:19.680 of these elements was very productive, was very creative, and 1:52:19.760 --> 1:52:26.120 it wasn't dangerous. As with all drugs and alcohol and 1:52:26.160 --> 1:52:29.400 things like that, there are people that will lose sight 1:52:29.439 --> 1:52:34.600 of where it's going and disappear. And but I don't know, 1:52:34.640 --> 1:52:37.240 I think we we touched on it the way it was, 1:52:37.560 --> 1:52:41.280 and we didn't overemphasize it. But it's part of the 1:52:41.360 --> 1:52:46.240 music that we love today from the from the seventies, 1:52:46.600 --> 1:52:48.679 you know, not being done again. 1:52:49.600 --> 1:52:52.320 I'm going to disappoint you with my answer to this question, though, Bob, 1:52:52.400 --> 1:52:55.200 because you want you wanted some desolations. I'm gonna give 1:52:55.200 --> 1:52:57.559 you somebody because I'm not gonna give you some solations, 1:52:57.560 --> 1:52:58.880 But I'm going to give you something that I think 1:52:58.960 --> 1:53:02.479 we we did put enough of a rapper around in 1:53:02.520 --> 1:53:05.679 the book. Okay that yes there were tons of groupies, 1:53:05.720 --> 1:53:08.160 and yes there was a lot of sex going around, 1:53:08.320 --> 1:53:11.559 and Howard Caitlin tells the story of groupies being passed 1:53:11.560 --> 1:53:14.040 around in the hotel room. So yeah, that's rock and 1:53:14.120 --> 1:53:18.120 roll in the in the seventies. Uh. What we didn't 1:53:18.600 --> 1:53:21.920 point out well enough, I think is the fact that 1:53:22.000 --> 1:53:25.960 women played a really big role in the successive record 1:53:25.960 --> 1:53:31.719 plant all right. Yes, Uh, Ankie Revson was the woman, 1:53:31.920 --> 1:53:36.240 was the was the book, paid the bills and put 1:53:36.240 --> 1:53:38.280 the money, put the money. She was the money bags 1:53:38.280 --> 1:53:43.799 behind the studio. Glorie Burton put put Roy Sakala in business. 1:53:44.200 --> 1:53:49.839 Marta Kelgrin, Gary's wife named the studio Gloria Gloria Stone 1:53:50.280 --> 1:53:53.920 ran the place. A woman by the name of Lillian Duma. 1:53:54.640 --> 1:53:57.720 Davis was one of the first rock and roll engineers. 1:53:57.840 --> 1:54:02.200 Jimmy Hendrick had a woman engineer at Record Plant, New York. Right. 1:54:03.280 --> 1:54:08.559 Another woman, Denny King, was an engineer. Women, like fran Hughes, 1:54:09.520 --> 1:54:15.120 reinvented the way studio booking took place. Rose Man was 1:54:15.200 --> 1:54:19.320 a studio manager at Record Plan who reinvented book studio 1:54:19.320 --> 1:54:22.439 booking as well creative booking for Record Plan and ended 1:54:22.520 --> 1:54:25.160 up running the place for thirty five years. So I 1:54:25.200 --> 1:54:27.040 know that's not the story that you may have been 1:54:27.040 --> 1:54:29.080 looking for, but I think it's important to point out 1:54:29.080 --> 1:54:31.519 although I'm sure there were many women who may not 1:54:31.560 --> 1:54:35.040 have been treated well, but to Stone and Kelgrin, women 1:54:35.120 --> 1:54:38.760 were a very vital part of the business of making 1:54:38.760 --> 1:54:42.600 sure the business ran successfully, making sure was funded successfully, 1:54:42.640 --> 1:54:44.880 and they played a big role in the success in 1:54:44.920 --> 1:54:45.440 the studio. 1:54:45.960 --> 1:54:49.440 Okay, Kelgrin drowns in a swimming pool. There's a fire 1:54:49.600 --> 1:54:54.160 on Third Street. They moved the studio to Sycamore. How 1:54:54.200 --> 1:54:58.000 does it end for Stone? Does he get it off 1:54:58.080 --> 1:55:01.240 or he can't refuse or is he turned out? How 1:55:01.240 --> 1:55:03.240 does it end and how does he cope with being 1:55:03.240 --> 1:55:04.600 out of the business. 1:55:05.320 --> 1:55:10.080 Well, I coincidentally, Gloria Stone just called that was the 1:55:10.240 --> 1:55:16.520 ringing phone. I'll call her back, she described. I photographed 1:55:16.520 --> 1:55:24.080 the night that George Martin and his manager. I'll remember that. 1:55:25.040 --> 1:55:30.720 It was a great guy. They finalized the deal for 1:55:30.840 --> 1:55:36.120 Stone to cash out Record Plant to Chrysalis Records. And 1:55:36.200 --> 1:55:40.600 in the photos Stone is a very happy man. I 1:55:40.600 --> 1:55:44.240 think after after all these years he was he was 1:55:44.240 --> 1:55:49.080 getting he was bushed, and Gloria described as I think 1:55:49.120 --> 1:55:52.600 I can see the canary feathers outside of his mouth 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:57.839 in the pictures where he's smiling. And I'd met George before. 1:55:58.200 --> 1:56:00.760 It was it was a good time and it was 1:56:00.840 --> 1:56:05.360 It breathed totally new life into the studio. Roseman, who 1:56:05.400 --> 1:56:11.520 started on Third Street, transitioned over became the president eventually 1:56:12.240 --> 1:56:16.040 of Record Plan on Sycamore, and it celebrated for many 1:56:16.040 --> 1:56:20.160 many years after that. You know, they had us talk 1:56:20.200 --> 1:56:26.080 about bedrooms. They had a special fluffy bed installed in 1:56:26.120 --> 1:56:30.040 one of the one of the studios for Guns n' 1:56:30.120 --> 1:56:34.880 Roses so that they could continue the tradition of sleeping 1:56:36.160 --> 1:56:37.120 and making music. 1:56:38.120 --> 1:56:40.480 So one of the thing they had is Stone was 1:56:40.480 --> 1:56:44.680 a serial entrepreneur, right even after record playing. You know, 1:56:45.200 --> 1:56:48.200 he kept on putting deals together. He built it, built 1:56:48.200 --> 1:56:50.600 a deal with an audio dealer. He built the World 1:56:50.600 --> 1:56:52.960 Studio Group. We got the greatest studios in the world 1:56:53.040 --> 1:56:56.560 and started marketing them. He invested in a lot of business. 1:56:56.560 --> 1:56:59.080 He was he was always putting deals together. The fact 1:56:59.160 --> 1:57:02.320 this book, to a great extent, is one of his deals, right, 1:57:02.560 --> 1:57:05.920 you know, his vision that put David and me together. 1:57:06.040 --> 1:57:09.640 So Stone never stopped hustling and never stopped making deals, 1:57:09.800 --> 1:57:10.840 even to the very end. 1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:14.360 I wrote a book with Stone called The Sound of Money. 1:57:15.800 --> 1:57:17.840 Actually Stone wrote it, I edited it. 1:57:18.400 --> 1:57:19.760 Okay, so what was that book. 1:57:21.120 --> 1:57:24.600 Oh? It's basically a step by step how to run 1:57:24.640 --> 1:57:28.320 a studio, how to make money, how to make it work, 1:57:28.960 --> 1:57:32.240 how to be smart and not stupid, how to communicate. 1:57:33.000 --> 1:57:35.200 We just you know, we did it like months by 1:57:35.320 --> 1:57:40.400 month and it was published in Marty's magazine. We'd get together, Okay, 1:57:40.400 --> 1:57:42.000 what are we going to tell the folks this month? 1:57:42.040 --> 1:57:44.440 And he'd come up with an idea, and I'd give 1:57:44.480 --> 1:57:47.400 him an idea and we'd knock it out and it 1:57:47.520 --> 1:57:49.880 all got collected in a book and it's you know, 1:57:50.400 --> 1:57:54.240 the studio situation is so different now, but all the 1:57:54.320 --> 1:58:00.280 basic business principles, many of these things personally affected me. 1:58:00.880 --> 1:58:03.800 When I met Stone, I had just moved to LA 1:58:03.960 --> 1:58:07.160 and I got started getting involved in the studio and 1:58:07.400 --> 1:58:12.240 at one point Stone said to me, because he's mister Bonds, 1:58:12.240 --> 1:58:14.920 he called he called me Bonds, he coined that name. 1:58:15.000 --> 1:58:19.160 I was, I was the Bonds. He said, Bonds, you're 1:58:19.200 --> 1:58:23.200 a fucking hippie. Come on, get your shit together. You know, 1:58:24.080 --> 1:58:25.800 you want to make some money, you want to have 1:58:25.880 --> 1:58:29.760 a business. You got to do this thing or forget 1:58:29.800 --> 1:58:33.680 about it. And so he taught me so much and 1:58:33.760 --> 1:58:36.320 I'm so grateful for that. That's what you talk about 1:58:36.320 --> 1:58:39.520 a labor of love. It's giving back to how much 1:58:39.560 --> 1:58:43.760 he had an impact on my life personally. And uh, 1:58:43.840 --> 1:58:46.280 you know he was. I asked him once if do 1:58:46.320 --> 1:58:49.720 you want to be loved or feared? You know the 1:58:49.800 --> 1:58:54.040 answer feared. But there are many people who worked at 1:58:54.120 --> 1:58:58.040 Record Plant that he bailed them out when they had 1:58:58.080 --> 1:59:03.080 health problems. He maybe bank rolled a down payment so 1:59:03.160 --> 1:59:06.720 they could get by a house. I know a lady 1:59:06.760 --> 1:59:11.280 now still lives in the house that was instigated by 1:59:11.360 --> 1:59:14.800 Chris Stone. So you know that's kind of the legacy 1:59:15.400 --> 1:59:19.880 that people don't know about Stone. I wouldn't say, you know, 1:59:19.960 --> 1:59:25.400 he was a pushover. No way, you couldn't pull the 1:59:25.440 --> 1:59:29.600 wool over Chris Stone's eyes. Because he could see through 1:59:29.640 --> 1:59:36.880 situations like like Kelgrin could see through music, Stone could 1:59:36.880 --> 1:59:40.800 see through business. That was the combination, that was the chemistry. 1:59:41.880 --> 1:59:44.520 Neither one of them would have been successful without the other. 1:59:45.640 --> 1:59:52.000 Okay, you mentioned the modern days. So many big rooms 1:59:52.080 --> 1:59:55.760 have closed. People might get basics in a big room. 1:59:55.800 --> 1:59:58.000 A lot of people just do everything at home. So 1:59:58.200 --> 2:00:02.040 what's the status today and is this an era just 2:00:02.120 --> 2:00:04.920 in the rear view mirror or is it something you 2:00:04.960 --> 2:00:07.320 can replicate if you have enough money to spend as 2:00:07.320 --> 2:00:11.480 an artist. Where are we today? 2:00:11.600 --> 2:00:13.960 Well, some of the big rooms are still doing well 2:00:14.000 --> 2:00:18.040 because they to get the sound of it, like an orchestra, 2:00:18.440 --> 2:00:22.240 you need a big stage. Stone towards while he was 2:00:22.280 --> 2:00:26.960 on Sycamore, he took over stage M at Paramount a 2:00:26.960 --> 2:00:30.840 Lot and ran that for about ten years because he 2:00:30.920 --> 2:00:33.520 knew how to make it work and he had the 2:00:33.560 --> 2:00:39.240 best technicians, the best engineers, and those rooms have to 2:00:40.120 --> 2:00:46.000 be around, probably for the film business mainly. I can't 2:00:46.040 --> 2:00:48.880 predict how long it's going to last. But we still 2:00:48.920 --> 2:00:53.560 have here in La a number of really well run, 2:00:54.120 --> 2:00:59.720 well maintained big rooms. One studio is probably going to 2:00:59.720 --> 2:01:06.440 be uh part of the of an educational operation. I 2:01:06.480 --> 2:01:09.600 can't get into the details now, but you'll be hearing 2:01:09.640 --> 2:01:10.600 about it for sure. 2:01:12.040 --> 2:01:17.600 So you know, Sasolito, which was Gary Keligrin's masterpiece, right, beautiful, 2:01:17.800 --> 2:01:23.000 beautiful walls and woodwork and designs, still was closed for 2:01:23.080 --> 2:01:26.000 many years. People tried to open and try to close it. It's, 2:01:26.200 --> 2:01:31.560 you know, finally some well bank rolled entrepreneurs got it 2:01:31.600 --> 2:01:34.640 back up and running, and it is running again, uh 2:01:34.760 --> 2:01:37.080 you know and again. Uh you know. So it's it's 2:01:37.120 --> 2:01:40.800 wonderful that it's up and running. Let's face it, you know, 2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:43.080 the big the days of the big studio is over 2:01:43.400 --> 2:01:46.720 by and large. There are some of that still exists fortunately, 2:01:47.160 --> 2:01:49.680 but by and large they're all gone. Sick of the 2:01:49.720 --> 2:01:53.360 studio on Sycamore. The Record Play closed last year, made 2:01:53.440 --> 2:01:56.720 huge noise. That was a hugely successful studio even after 2:01:56.800 --> 2:01:59.920 Chris Stone was gone. You're talking about you know, be 2:02:00.640 --> 2:02:04.520 Kanye West, Guns n' Roses, you know, endless amount of 2:02:04.560 --> 2:02:10.000 major artists recorded there. Closed last year. The record Business 2:02:10.120 --> 2:02:12.000 as you write about all the time, Bob, is not 2:02:12.080 --> 2:02:15.040 what it used to be. Digital change to everything, or 2:02:15.080 --> 2:02:17.800 not only changed the way music musicians make their money 2:02:17.880 --> 2:02:21.640 or don't make their money, the way labels make their money. Uh, 2:02:21.760 --> 2:02:24.560 that way music is distributed. But certainly the way music 2:02:24.720 --> 2:02:27.880 was was made, it was done. You know. The first 2:02:28.040 --> 2:02:31.160 digital recording studio was Steven Sills and an engineer named 2:02:31.200 --> 2:02:34.800 Michael Bronstein at Record Plan in in l a first 2:02:35.080 --> 2:02:40.400 first digital session. And and Still's is doing a recording. Uh, 2:02:40.480 --> 2:02:42.080 and they're doing a promotion for I think it was 2:02:42.120 --> 2:02:44.360 three m was the digital tape machine at that point, 2:02:44.720 --> 2:02:47.560 and and there and they're a they're running analog and 2:02:47.640 --> 2:02:49.960 digital tape at the same time. Right in those days, 2:02:50.040 --> 2:02:54.080 was it was digital tape. And Still's is listening. They're 2:02:54.080 --> 2:02:56.800 doing a playback and they're listening to it, and everybody's 2:02:57.080 --> 2:03:00.320 waiting for it. Stills looking at Stills in the through 2:03:00.360 --> 2:03:02.520 the in the control room. You know, how is he 2:03:02.560 --> 2:03:06.240 going to react to the new digital digital sound? It's amazing, 2:03:06.280 --> 2:03:09.680 he said, And and you know what, he takes a 2:03:09.720 --> 2:03:11.800 sharpie and writes on a piece of paper and holds 2:03:11.840 --> 2:03:14.600 it up and he points it to the engineer to 2:03:14.640 --> 2:03:18.000 the scientists or who had invented these new digital tape machines, 2:03:18.040 --> 2:03:23.520 He says, scientists, you failed not because the digital and 2:03:23.560 --> 2:03:27.200 those early sound of digital was not even as good 2:03:27.520 --> 2:03:29.640 as analog. And there are people to this day, you know, 2:03:29.680 --> 2:03:32.640 in the audio files as well as even some many 2:03:32.680 --> 2:03:35.360 recording engineers who were working on vintage gear who feel 2:03:35.400 --> 2:03:39.080 that digital doesn't quite live up to the sound quality 2:03:39.120 --> 2:03:42.840 of great you know, a great two track, two inch 2:03:43.240 --> 2:03:48.720 sixteen track tape machine. But there was one other, probably 2:03:48.800 --> 2:03:53.240 more significant change that digital made in the recording business. 2:03:53.680 --> 2:03:57.400 Are musicians don't play together like they used to, you know, 2:03:57.440 --> 2:03:59.960 they they mail it in, they email it in. They 2:04:00.120 --> 2:04:02.880 they remotely work. They were remote working. We're you know, 2:04:02.920 --> 2:04:05.360 we're doing this remote when musicians do the same thing. 2:04:06.240 --> 2:04:08.600 Bands don't play together like they used to be in 2:04:08.640 --> 2:04:11.480 the studio because those studios don't exist anymore. The space 2:04:11.520 --> 2:04:15.400 doesn't exist anymore. So that's changed the business forever and 2:04:15.440 --> 2:04:18.600 to change the art form and that's something that even 2:04:18.720 --> 2:04:22.160 you know doesn't exist the way it once was. And 2:04:22.240 --> 2:04:25.760 that's probably the biggest impact of digital was the remote 2:04:26.080 --> 2:04:29.160 production of music and the way bands now work. 2:04:30.000 --> 2:04:31.840 What do you think Bob, oh, this is a long 2:04:31.960 --> 2:04:36.480 conversation that we can like another two hours, and. 2:04:36.560 --> 2:04:42.160 So does our book encapsulate what the way it used 2:04:42.200 --> 2:04:42.480 to be? 2:04:42.600 --> 2:04:45.520 What people if I get into this discussion all the time, 2:04:46.280 --> 2:04:49.480 people say, oh, it's the same as it ever was. 2:04:49.640 --> 2:04:52.960 You're just too won't No, it is not the same. 2:04:53.800 --> 2:04:57.000 Just like in the Renaissance. They've painted and sculpted ever since, 2:04:57.560 --> 2:05:00.880 but there was only one Renaissance. You talk about everybody 2:05:00.920 --> 2:05:03.880 being I remember one of the first couple of times 2:05:03.920 --> 2:05:06.200 I was in the room. I remember once at the 2:05:06.240 --> 2:05:08.960 record plan. You know, in the early days in the sixties, 2:05:08.960 --> 2:05:12.160 you'd go to the studio, You book three hours and 2:05:12.200 --> 2:05:13.320 you work three hours. 2:05:13.920 --> 2:05:14.480 Okay. 2:05:14.960 --> 2:05:18.280 Then the Stone started to write the songs in the studio, 2:05:19.160 --> 2:05:22.040 as did the Beatles. But the Beatles broke up. People 2:05:22.120 --> 2:05:24.520 have no idea. Forget if you're you know, you have 2:05:24.560 --> 2:05:27.720 a lockout for months, that's the thing unto itself. But 2:05:28.560 --> 2:05:32.440 you would have twelve hour block, how much time would 2:05:32.480 --> 2:05:36.400 the people actually spend recording if you got eight hours 2:05:36.440 --> 2:05:39.040 out of that block. I mean, you know, oh, we're 2:05:39.040 --> 2:05:41.120 going to dinner, and you'd go to a dinner for couple. 2:05:41.240 --> 2:05:43.040 And if you were somebody counting. 2:05:42.680 --> 2:05:43.480 The dollars ago. 2:05:43.800 --> 2:05:46.760 This is insane. We're just burning the money. 2:05:47.520 --> 2:05:50.280 But oh we we we got to get that snare 2:05:50.360 --> 2:05:51.880 drum sound right. 2:05:52.480 --> 2:05:56.840 Well, you know, but there was money to burn, you 2:05:56.880 --> 2:05:59.680 know there. You know, other than a handful of artists 2:06:00.080 --> 2:06:03.240 you talk about playing together, they don't do that. They 2:06:03.320 --> 2:06:07.160 can't afford to do it that way. The economics don't 2:06:07.200 --> 2:06:09.560 work out. Record company won't give them that money. But 2:06:09.640 --> 2:06:11.360 the reason the record company won't give them money is 2:06:11.360 --> 2:06:15.560 they can't make their money back. So the other thing 2:06:15.600 --> 2:06:21.920 that people forget is these were professionals. These were not hobbyists. 2:06:22.320 --> 2:06:25.080 They may not have had a degree from an institution, 2:06:25.840 --> 2:06:30.480 but they had paid their dues and they were very 2:06:30.560 --> 2:06:36.040 intelligent in certain verticals. It's not the same anymore. The 2:06:36.080 --> 2:06:38.160 other thing I readly it is not the same was 2:06:39.160 --> 2:06:42.040 we have huge income inequality at this point in time. 2:06:42.680 --> 2:06:44.880 We have winners and losers. And if you have a brain, 2:06:44.920 --> 2:06:48.520 you talk to young people today. They want to start 2:06:48.520 --> 2:06:50.520 a career. They're afraid they're going to end up with nothing. 2:06:51.040 --> 2:06:54.760 Whereas during this era you could live on one hundred 2:06:54.800 --> 2:06:57.320 dollars a week, couldn't live like a king, but you 2:06:57.360 --> 2:07:01.040 weren't living on the street. Okay, if you made it 2:07:01.080 --> 2:07:05.120 as a rock star, listen, there's so many There's not 2:07:05.160 --> 2:07:08.800 only the studios. You know, the cell phone camera killed 2:07:08.840 --> 2:07:12.040 all the antics on the road. I mean, there's a 2:07:12.120 --> 2:07:14.520 lot of different things. And if you wanted to know 2:07:14.560 --> 2:07:17.000 which way the wind blew, you know, you turned on 2:07:17.040 --> 2:07:19.160 the radio put on a record. People haven't now this 2:07:19.240 --> 2:07:24.160 is people have no idea. Taylor Swift arguably the biggest 2:07:24.200 --> 2:07:27.320 artists in the world. I get into this all the time. 2:07:27.760 --> 2:07:31.440 Most people cannot name one song off the new album, 2:07:32.360 --> 2:07:35.560 never mind singing it. She has her fans and she's big. 2:07:35.600 --> 2:07:41.040 I'm only put it with a satisfaction Hotel, California. Unless 2:07:41.080 --> 2:07:45.600 you were deaf, you knew the song. These people were 2:07:45.720 --> 2:07:48.840 royalty in a way. You know, you talk about life 2:07:48.840 --> 2:07:51.320 in the Fastling in the book with the Eagles. They 2:07:51.360 --> 2:07:56.040 were living a life completely untouchable by us, and it 2:07:56.160 --> 2:07:59.360 was mysterious and they created these songs out of thin air. 2:08:00.640 --> 2:08:08.560 You know, it's not the same today. On that note, gentlemen, 2:08:10.440 --> 2:08:12.040 I think we've come to the end of the fielding 2:08:12.080 --> 2:08:14.480 We've known. I can get a lot more questions, but 2:08:14.520 --> 2:08:15.400 people can read the. 2:08:15.440 --> 2:08:18.560 Book started to cry, Oh no, Bob. 2:08:20.040 --> 2:08:22.080 Just to give a little sales pitch for the book. 2:08:22.720 --> 2:08:25.760 And I never lie. People send me books all day long. 2:08:25.880 --> 2:08:29.560 Drives my girlfriend nuts because they pile up. And I 2:08:29.600 --> 2:08:33.520 got a pre publication version of your book, but I 2:08:33.680 --> 2:08:37.040 was traveling and then they sent me the finished hardcover 2:08:37.520 --> 2:08:38.200 and I say. 2:08:38.080 --> 2:08:39.400 Well, I have to crack it. 2:08:39.960 --> 2:08:41.440 I mean, people don't know you. 2:08:41.440 --> 2:08:42.160 You live in La. 2:08:43.160 --> 2:08:46.120 It's all the psiconography, all this frame you moved to La, 2:08:46.160 --> 2:08:48.480 all this stuff from the Frank Zappa records. Oh there 2:08:48.520 --> 2:08:52.600 it is Pico and Sepulvida. Oh Monty Legion Stadium. You 2:08:52.720 --> 2:08:54.880 drove by the record plan. You know there was an 2:08:55.040 --> 2:08:57.920 entrance way, but otherwise it was all with this, you know, 2:08:58.080 --> 2:09:01.600 sort of psychedelic, said the recordend. It was happening in there, 2:09:01.960 --> 2:09:06.800 but you couldn't get in there. This book not only 2:09:07.400 --> 2:09:09.360 you know there are a lot of people who know 2:09:09.440 --> 2:09:11.760 a lot about this because we all read the credits. 2:09:12.120 --> 2:09:14.760 This adds fills in the hole some of these people 2:09:14.800 --> 2:09:18.560 I know, like Ezra in etc. You learn stuff you 2:09:18.680 --> 2:09:23.240 don't know. It's very readable if you have any interest 2:09:23.320 --> 2:09:28.240 at all. The book is totally satisfying. I highly recommend it. 2:09:29.240 --> 2:09:29.960 Thank you, Bob. 2:09:31.400 --> 2:09:32.040 Thanks Bob. 2:09:32.320 --> 2:09:37.640 But that's why we're doing this. It's honest. I mean, people, 2:09:37.760 --> 2:09:39.880 you know, you talk. I can tell the stories about 2:09:39.880 --> 2:09:43.160 being the studio, about being in the record plan. It's 2:09:43.160 --> 2:09:45.080 like when people go to a show, to the forum, 2:09:45.440 --> 2:09:47.480 but even better, you talk about Calgrim being the rock 2:09:47.520 --> 2:09:51.440 stars Fashia. You are inside the record plan, the person 2:09:51.520 --> 2:09:55.840 on the record, they're just walking by. You know, all 2:09:55.840 --> 2:09:59.720 this magic, it's encapsulated in this book. Anyway, gentlemen, thanks 2:09:59.720 --> 2:10:03.800 for doing this. Until next time. This is Bob lefts 2:10:03.880 --> 2:10:04.040 it 2:10:25.880 --> 2:10:25.960 Sh