1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: it's part two of Mushroom Foraging. We we started going 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: into the woods and we got lost, and uh, so 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: we had to we had to say, you know what, 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: this is actually two episodes. Here we are again with 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: part two. All right, let's jump right in. So we 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: already talked about how mushroom hunting appears to be this 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: really popular activity in Russia, and this goes way back, 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: and it's so popular that there are these common media 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: stories about people getting lost in the wilderness because they 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: went into a trance while mushroom hunting and then they 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: couldn't find their way home. But apparently things are very 15 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: similar in Poland. It's also a very common activity to 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: go mushroom hunting in Poland. And uh. The Polish romantic 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: poet Adam Mitskevitch, who lived from seven to eighteen fifty five, 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: wrote famously about mushroom foraging in his epic poem Panta Days. 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: And so I was looking at this in a few 20 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: different translations. I think the clearest one unfortunately doesn't go 21 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: for the whole poetry and meter of it. It's a 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: prose translation by George Rapaul Noyus, but I think this 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: will give the best sense of the passage, maybe losing 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: a bit of the music. Are you ready, Robert, Okay. 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: So there are these characters who are The basic drama 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: of Pantadash is about this conflict between these clans over 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: some kind of real estate dispute. I've never read the 28 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: whole thing, but I like the parts I have read. 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: And and so it's got all these, uh, these fancy 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: ladies and lads going out to hunt for mushrooms in 31 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: the forest, and they've announced that, you know, whichever lad 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: finds the fanciest mushroom will get to sit next to 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: the prettiest girl in the castle. And it's that kind 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: of thing. Uh. And so it goes into the section 35 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: on mushrooms. Quote of mushrooms, there were plenty. The lads 36 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: gathered the fair cheeked fox mushrooms, so famous in the 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: Lithuanian songs as the emblem of maidenhood. For the worms 38 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: do not eat them, and marvelous to say no insect 39 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: alights on them. The young ladies hunted for the slender 40 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: pine lover, which the song calls the kernel of the mushrooms. 41 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: And that's colonel, like the military rank, not like the popcorn. 42 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: I don't know why it wouldn't be the general of mushrooms. 43 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: But moving on, all were eager for the orange agaric. This, 44 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: though of more modest stature and less famous in song, 45 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: is still the most delicious, whether fresh or salted, whether 46 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: in autumn or in winter. But the sineschal gathered the toadstool, flybane, 47 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: the remainder of the mushroom family, are despised because they 48 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: are injurious or of poor flavor, but they are not useless. 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: They give food to beasts and shelter to insects, and 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: are an ornament to the groves. On the green cloth 51 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: of the meadows, they rise up like lines of table dishes. 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: Here are the leaf mushrooms, with their rounded borders, silver, 53 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: yellow and red, like little glasses filled with various sorts 54 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: of wine. The cos lac like the bulging bottom of 55 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: an upturned cup, the funnels like slender champagne glasses, the 56 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: round white, broad, flat white ease like china coffee cups 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: filled with milk, and the round puff ball filled with 58 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: a blackish dust like a pepper shaker. The names of 59 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: the others are known only in the language of hairs 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: or wolves by men. They have not been christened, but 61 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: they are innumerable. No one deigns to touch the wolf 62 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: or hair varieties, but whenever a person bends down to them, 63 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: he straight away perceives his mistake, grows angry, and breaks 64 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: the mushroom or kicks it with his foot, in thus 65 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: defiling the grass. He acts with great indiscretion. I like 66 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: at the end there it gets a little bit offended 67 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: on behalf of the grass. I guess I'm not sure 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: I fully understand the meaning of that last statement, but 69 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to look at a couple of things about 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: this passage um So. One is that, first, while while 71 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: Russian and Polish cultures are considered to have a great 72 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: affinity for mushrooms, making them generally micophilic in some terminology 73 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: that will address a little bit later in the episode, uh, 74 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: this doesn't, of course manifest as a love for all 75 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: mushrooms unqualified. Instead, it seems to me that the mushroom 76 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: loving culture actually has a highly discriminating eye from mushrooms 77 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: noticing much more the important and perhaps life saving differences 78 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: between varieties. So like a mushroom culture doesn't just love mushrooms. 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: It's more like they really love the good ones and 80 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: really hate the bad ones. But of course, plenty of 81 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: mushroom hunting and accidental mushroom poisoning happens even in the 82 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: modern era. In Poland, was looking at a scientific report 83 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: compiling cases of mushroom poisoning in Poland from the year's 84 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two to nineteen sixty seven by an author 85 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: named Eliza Lewandowska. And this was called Mushroom Poisoning in 86 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: Poland in the years in nineteen sixty two to sixty 87 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: seven species of poisonous fungi. Now, there's no surprise at 88 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: all here that the species representing the most danger was 89 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: our old friend amanda felloids or the death cap mushroom. 90 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: We we've talked about this already, right, yes, now, this 91 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: one was responsible for at least four hundred and sixty 92 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: one cases of poisoning and a hundred and twenty six 93 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: deaths by this survey. A commonly cited figure that I've 94 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: seen elsewhere is that death caps today represent more than 95 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: nine of fatal mushroom poisonings worldwide. So so they're the 96 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: real bad boy in terms of accidental accidental mushroom poisoning. UM. 97 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: But I was also reading about how the specific way 98 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: that Amanda philoids kills is deceptive lee devious. So when 99 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: somebody eats this mushroom, it's not necessarily what you would 100 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: picture where you eat it and then you're immediately doubled 101 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: over in pain and you know, and hallucinating and sweating 102 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: with a fever and screaming. Instead, when somebody eats the 103 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: Amanda floid e is it doesn't necessarily cause any immediate 104 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: pain or discomfort. In fact, people often don't have any 105 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: symptoms at all for many hours I've read, sometimes maybe 106 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: six hours later, sometimes even not until like a full 107 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: day later, and then the cramps and the nausea and 108 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: the vomiting and the diarrhea set in. And I've read 109 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: that this can make it easy to mistake the poisoning 110 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: for something else. You might think you've got a stomach 111 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: bug or whatever, because of the length of time between 112 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: eating the mushroom and the onset of symptoms. And uh, 113 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: and at this point, after the symptoms set in, they 114 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: can sometimes even retreat, they can grow milder if the 115 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: patient is properly cared for, properly hydrated, and all that. 116 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: The entire time, I'm the amine to toxins are in 117 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: the background, just massacreing cells in the liver and harming 118 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 1: the kidneys, eventually leading to organ failure and eventually to death. 119 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: And I don't know that there's there's something kind of 120 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: especially terrifying about that that there's this You can have 121 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: this false sense that things are getting better and that oh, 122 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling a little bit better than i was earlier, 123 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: or maybe I'm not even feeling bad at all, while 124 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: the mushroom is actively killing your vital organs. I think 125 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: it also underlines just the sort of precision that had 126 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: to take place in figuring out the properties of various 127 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: mushrooms and and other organisms in one's environment, you know, 128 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: because this is clearly something where you you would have 129 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: to do a little detective work to figure out it. Yeah, 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: exactly what had caused this awful illness in the individual exactly. 131 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: But in in second place for poisonings was a species 132 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: that is also interesting and and requires are kind of precision, 133 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: but with a different difficulty I don't think we've talked 134 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: about this one yet. The second place in the Polish 135 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: survey for for most poisoning in death was gyrometra esculenta 136 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: or the false moral mushroom. Uh, that's moral like m 137 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: O R e L moral mushrooms not morals as you know, 138 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: doing good. Yeah, and so in this survey, the false 139 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: moral was responsible for a hundred and sixty four cases 140 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: of poisoning and ten deaths in this time in the sixties. Now, 141 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: the false moral is a very strange and interesting case 142 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: study in fungal toxicity because, first of all, it looks crazy. 143 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: It looks like a brain on a stick, or not 144 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: even a normal brain. It looks like if you tried 145 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: to make a raisin out of a brain. Yeah, it 146 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of looks like what you have mushroom but ground chuck. 147 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: You know. It of appearance, Yeah, it's got the little 148 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: grinder extrusion patterns. Yeah it does. It looks kind of 149 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: like it's come out of a machine in a way. 150 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: I agree, had an extruded kind of appearance to it. 151 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: But a lot of delicious mushrooms look very strange and 152 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,599 Speaker 1: very unlike other foods we eat. So you know, that's fine, um. 153 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: But but gyrometra is an interesting case because the toxicity 154 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: seems to vary a lot. Just one example I was 155 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: reading in a stat Pearls entry by Horowitz, Kong and Horowitz, 156 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: and the author's report quote most poisonings occur in Eastern Europe, 157 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: particularly in the conifer forests of Germany, Poland, and Finland. 158 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: In North America, most exposures occur in Michigan, although a 159 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: less toxic variety grows west of the Rockies and has 160 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: been clustered in Idaho and Western Canada. Exposures occur mostly 161 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: in the spring, unlike other serious mushroom poisonings such as 162 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: Amanda filoids, which occur more commonly in the fall. So 163 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: there's this geographical distribution. I've read about how there are 164 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: different rates of poisoning from the false morale to ending 165 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: on where the mushroom was grown, you know, in in 166 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: different countries and at different altitudes and things like that. 167 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: It seems to vary a lot, depending on you know, 168 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: what local strain you're getting, and possibly due to interactions 169 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: with you know, with the body of the person who 170 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: eats it. Another thing I've read is that poisoning is 171 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: here are much more common when these mushrooms are eaten raw. Now, 172 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: there's one thing that poison control authorities often emphasize, which 173 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: is that you should not use intuitive smell and taste 174 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: senses to figure out what is poisonous in the mushroom world, 175 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: because even though our senses of smell and taste are 176 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: certainly evolved to help us figure out what's good to eat, 177 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: they are not an infallible guide. And a great example 178 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: of this is once again the deathcap mushroom, one of 179 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: the most dangerous mushrooms to humans and the most deadly 180 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: one in Poland. During that survey we were just talking 181 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: about the deathcap mushroom does not taste like poison. It 182 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: reportedly does not taste bitter, does not taste sour, does 183 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: not you know, set your mouth on fire with needles 184 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: going into your tongue. In fact, it is widely said 185 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: to be absolutely delicious. There are people who have had 186 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: these hepatotoxic mushrooms absolutely destroy their liver. But they report that, 187 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, before the pain and the nausea set in 188 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: six hours later, twenty four hours later, when whenever it is, 189 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: while they're eating these mushrooms. They are some of the 190 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: best tasting mushrooms that they've ever had. Uh. They're said 191 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: to smell sweet like honey and taste absolutely delightful, sauteed 192 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: and buttered. Don't do this, don't It's not worth it. 193 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: It will kill you. Do not take the death cap 194 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: challenge if you see something like that on YouTube. No, 195 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: not at all. But but this does bring me back 196 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: to an interesting observation from Miskovich, which is that some 197 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: of the species of mushroom that are detestable to humankind, 198 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the death cap is one of these 199 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: in in his survey, they're known in the cultures of 200 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: he calls the wolves or the hairs, you know, the 201 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: language of wolves or rabbits. Now, you might think that 202 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: this is just another folk tale about the animals of 203 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 1: the forest, but I think that this could actually be 204 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: based on real observation, because despite being one of the 205 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: most deadly fungi to humans, it is not necessarily deadly 206 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: to everything in the forest all of the time. It 207 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: came across one statement about this when I was reading 208 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: an article about the spread of the deathcap mushroom throughout 209 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: North America, and this was by Craig Childs in the Atlantic. 210 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: It's a very interesting article. It's worth reading. A Child's 211 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: talks about how deathcap mushrooms naturally live in a symbiotic 212 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: relationship with host trees. And we've talked about how several 213 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: mushroom species are like this. They attached themselves to the 214 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: roots of trees and they sort of trade resources between them, 215 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: uh and so that they're able to get some nutrition 216 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: from from tree roots. And this is the reason that 217 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: you will often find them sort of in a ring 218 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: of deadly fruiting bodies around the roots of a central 219 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: tree trunk. But their spores don't naturally tend to spread 220 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: very far, at least under normal circumstances, and it has 221 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: taken human intervention to really set them spreading far and wide. Specifically, 222 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: what's named by Craig Child's in this article is that 223 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: deathcap mushrooms have been spreaded, spreading rapidly throughout northwest North America, 224 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: riding along on the roots of imported European trees, like 225 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: imported sweet chestnut trees and beech trees. So you get 226 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: this fancy tree from Europe, it's got deathcap mushrooms in 227 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: a relationship with it. You bring the tree over here, 228 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: planted and it brings the poisonous mushrooms with it. But anyway, 229 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: the reason I brought this article up was that there's 230 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: this quick side note where Child's mentions that that squirrels 231 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: and rabbits have sometimes been observed to eat deathcap mushrooms 232 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: without being harmed at all, which sounds again like like 233 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: mits Kevich, like that, you know, the hairs don't really 234 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: mind in the mushrooms that the humans find absolutely detestable, 235 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: and so I think that's interesting. It's another indication of 236 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: what you should not do. You should not watch what 237 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: animals eat in the forest to determine what would be 238 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: okay for you to eat, because they may be able 239 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: to digest and metabolize stuff just fine that would absolutely 240 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: kill you with just a few mouthfuls. And also in 241 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: this just another reason to respect the mighty squirrel. Yes, yeah, 242 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: I saw squirrels were thrown in there too, So I'm 243 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: sure our fans are gonna gonna go hog wild about that. 244 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: Meme away, Yeah, meme until you drop. But one last 245 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to add about this was I saw 246 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: some mushroom enthusiasts online just in comments sections and stuff, 247 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: saying that they kind of wish they had whatever resistance 248 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: these rabbits have to to the death cap toxicity is 249 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: because they would love to taste them, for one, since 250 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, by all accounts, when people eat them, even 251 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: though it kills them, they are very tasty. Interesting. Um, 252 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, in our previous episode we mentioned we mentioned 253 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: a few different mushroom foraging cultures, and I believe Scottish 254 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: culture came up. As luck would have it, was watching 255 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: hum the the TV adaptation of Outlander last night. Start 256 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: watching that, yeah, and in the second episode, what happens 257 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: they're forging for mushrooms, talking about them, the medicinal use 258 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: of mushrooms and which ones are good to eat and 259 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: which ones are poisonous. I found it rather interesting. Also 260 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: castle they used in that show, same castle they used 261 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: in Highlander, uh and in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. 262 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: So it's got that going for it. So even in 263 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: your ultimate kilt lift or narrative, you cannot escape a 264 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: good mushroom hunt, right, I mean that's I mean you've 265 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: got time travel in there, so it's uh, it's it's 266 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: a big part of the plot apparently, at least as 267 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: I can gather thus far well, whether you're time traveling 268 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: or not, whether you forage for mushrooms or not, stay 269 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: away from the death caps, just just don't even try 270 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: it now. Of course, this is this goes way back. 271 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: This this basic um reality that we're discussing here, and 272 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: we've we've covered humanities hunter gatherer past on the show before. 273 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the basic is you know, we're we're omnivores, 274 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: and mushrooms have always been on the table. Uh. Though 275 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: of course our ancestors had to devise the expertise to 276 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: avoid harmful species as well as figuring out which ones 277 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: are beneficial, which ones can be food, etcetera. One of 278 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: the resources we were looking at for this section was 279 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: Eric BoA's Wild Edible Fungi a Global Overview of their 280 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: Use and Importance to People. Yeah, it looks like this 281 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,239 Speaker 1: was a report compiled for the Food and Agriculture Organization 282 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: of the u N in two thousand four. Yeah, and uh, 283 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: and Boa points out, I'm gonna mention a few different 284 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: facts that points out here. First of all, wild edible 285 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: fungi are collected for food in more than eighty countries, 286 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: and we're dealing with more than one thousand, one hundred 287 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: species and interestingly enough, some cultures may be viewed is 288 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: microphobic being you know, meaning there's a fear of mushrooms 289 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: or a reluctance to engage in mushroom consumption and foraging, 290 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: while other cultures are are microphilic meaning you know, the 291 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: loving mushrooms, you know, being open to those experiences in 292 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: those quests, with English culture standing interestingly enough as an 293 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: example of microphobic UH culture, while Chinese culture, he mentions, 294 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: is a strongly micophilic culture. He points out that a 295 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: lot of Chinese writings on mushrooms have yet to be translated, 296 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of material there. Now. I found 297 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: this very interesting because I've certainly seen some documentaries um 298 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: that really focus in on on British and Scottish traditions 299 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 1: regarding mushroom hunting. Yeah, and of course that highlights that 300 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: these designations. I've seen these designations used by other people 301 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: as well. Burtleston talks about this, where you know, cultures 302 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: that are predominantly microphobic or microphilic, they're all gonna be relative, 303 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: right Like, within each of these broad cultures, there will 304 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: be subcultures and then individuals that sort of run against 305 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: the grain. Um. But on the note of of of 306 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: Chinese culture being microphilic, of course that comes through in 307 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: in certain types of ancient medical practices, but also in cuisine. 308 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: And I just think about one of my earliest memories 309 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: of Chinese food. I've loved Chinese food as long as 310 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: I can remember, but one of my earliest memories is 311 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: of the unidentifiable fungus within the Chinese soup I was eating, 312 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: and how much I loved it, and how how it 313 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: was like there was nothing else like this in my diet. 314 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: I guess it was probably a type of black fungus 315 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: in a hot and sour soup, and I was just like, 316 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: what is this? I have no idea. It's like something 317 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: from another planet, and it's delicious. But as to microphobia, 318 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: Birtleson mentions evidence of strains of microphobic thinking in many 319 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: of the historic common names for mushrooms in some European cultures. 320 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: For example, though today we think of French cuisine as 321 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: being very very pro mushroom, historically there was some French 322 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: aversion to mushrooms, like calling mushrooms things like eggs of 323 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: the devil or the devil's paint brush, or toads bread. 324 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: Of course, there's the English expression toad stool. In Danish 325 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: and Norwegian you have variations on poda hot toad's hat, 326 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: and in Germanic and Celtic cultures. Burtleson writes that you 327 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: sometimes see an association between mushrooms and witchcraft, and this 328 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: association may have played a role in keeping the British 329 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: Aisles relatively microphobic for for many centuries. You know, I 330 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: can't help me be reminded. I'm sure I've brought this 331 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: up on the show before. Um, but there's that that 332 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: wonderful um a little bit in uh Burt of Eccos 333 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: the Name of the Rose, where there's the story of 334 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: of one monk. You know, it's like a multi multi cultural, 335 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: multi linguistic community of monks there, and one is talking 336 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: about having this pig that will accompany them into the 337 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: woods to search for truffles. And the other monk that's 338 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: hearing this story is I believe German, and he thinks 339 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: that he's not saying truffle but to full, which is 340 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: a German for devil, So he thinks this is a 341 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: horrific story of this weird pig that will accompany uh, 342 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: you into the woods so that you can seek out 343 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: the devil. I remember that moment, and that's oh man, 344 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: that's so emblematic of everything I love about Name of 345 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: the Rose. Now, in terms of the ancient uh uh 346 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: foraging for mushrooms and the use of mushrooms by by 347 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: human beings, you know, there's there's apparently evidence in what 348 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: is now Chile of mushroom consumption by humans thirteen thousand 349 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: years ago. Um Obso, the iceman who we've mentioned on 350 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: the show before, who lived between thirty four UM hundred 351 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: and thirty one b c uh somewhere in that area, 352 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: was found with two varieties of fun guy on his person, 353 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: one of which we've discussed on our other show or 354 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: previous other show. Invention was likely a dried fungi used 355 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: to help start fires, but the other was a bird 356 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: fungus that was likely consumed for medicinal reasons. And so 357 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: the consumption of mushrooms for culinary and or medicinal purposes 358 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: dates back in a number of ancient cultures. They're they're 359 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: more examples of this than we could easily cover on 360 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: the show here. Uh. And with the agricultural revolution came 361 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: the eventuality of mushroom cultivation as well. Though, as we've 362 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: previously touched on, there are so many varieties that are 363 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: resistant to cultivation. Yeah. I think specifically a lot of 364 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: the ones that you think of that are most commonly 365 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: used in food that are the hardest to cultivate, or 366 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: are the ones that are, for my corpsal reasons, unable 367 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: to be cultivated because they exist in these symbiotic relationships 368 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: with other plants, trees, and forest atmospheres, and so the 369 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: truffle is a common example, but of course shan trells 370 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: are like this as well. I believe also porcini mushrooms, uh, 371 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: that it's just really hard to recreate the conditions in 372 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: which they arise. Yeah. So even as as humanity inevitably 373 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: be you know that began this shift, uh, this revolution 374 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: in neolithic times, uh, shifting away from the hunter gathering 375 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: existence to one dependent on intensive agriculture, there's kind of this, 376 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, this tendency to sort of think of that 377 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: as Okay, well, you know, you're just changing the way 378 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: you live entirely. You're just stopping where you are, and 379 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: now you're gonna grow plants and maybe mushroom foraging is 380 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: one of those things that remains outside of that tradition 381 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: for these very reasons we've been discussing UM. However, this 382 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: was quite interested. I was looking around for resources on 383 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: this and I ran across a paper published in the 384 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: Royal Society b by Curtis w. Uh Marine titled the 385 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: Transition to foraging for Dense and Predictable Resources and It's 386 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: Impact on the Evolution of modern humans. And in this 387 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 1: the uh the the author, UM, it's discussing you know 388 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 1: this basic shift, but he points out they point out 389 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: that there's another shift to consider. Quote the foraging shift 390 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: to dense and predictable resources is another key milestone that 391 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: had consequential impacts on the later part of human evolution. Now, 392 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: the basic idea here is that there wasn't just this 393 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: sudden shift from hunting and gathering to cultivation. And there 394 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: are many hypothesized explanations for this, but Marine argues that 395 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: hunting and gathering would have seen an increased focus on 396 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: dense and predictable resources. As such, this also means that 397 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: a given area becomes increasingly worth defending and staking a 398 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: claim to. Oh, this is interesting, So this could be 399 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: the transition point between UM between people who just roam 400 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: about following resources and consuming them wherever they can be found. 401 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: That and then on the other hand, having farmland in between, 402 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: you could have places where there are naturally high density 403 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: resources that can be exploited over and over that you 404 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: might not be quite farming yet but might be worth 405 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: defending as a stable territory. Yeah. Yeah, And I have 406 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: to admit I hadn't really thought about this before. I 407 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: without giving it a lot of thought. I always just 408 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, had this this inaccurate picture in 409 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: my mind, and that was again like, Okay, we're not 410 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: hunter gathers anymore, let's start growing this corn. Why don't 411 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: we you know, like I don't, I didn't really think 412 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: about some of the potential, you know, for for areas 413 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: in between. This would be very interesting to explore. Paired 414 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: with something that came up in our Invention episodes on 415 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: bread and Toast, where we talked about the studies indicating 416 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: that bread and may actually have been invented before grain 417 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: was was an agricultural product like people may have been 418 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: making and I think the archaeological evidence is that people 419 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: were making bread from wild grains and wild grasses before 420 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: they had farms and wheat. Yeah. Absolutely. It makes me 421 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: wonder if they were getting these grains from some kind 422 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: of like location where there were a lot of them 423 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: growing together and could be exploited over and over again. Yeah, exactly. 424 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: Now marine rights to just some all this up quote. 425 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: I hypothesized that the origin population for modern humans made 426 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: this shift to dense and predictable resources, and thus was 427 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: subject to high levels of territoriality and intergroup con fleet, 428 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: which provided the selection regime for high levels of cooperation 429 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: with unrelated individuals within one's group. The downstream effect was 430 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: that all modern humans inherited these hyper pro social productivities 431 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: that are unique to our species. Now, to bring this 432 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: back to mushroom foraging, it is interesting to process one's 433 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: thoughts about the predictable times and places one will find, 434 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: say Chantrelle's or into the woods, and the competitive feelings 435 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: that they may force we may be forced to confront 436 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: during this. In fact, I understand that more serious mushroom 437 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: foragers are, you know, their loath to reveal the secrets uh, 438 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: their secret places, their quote unquote honey spots, uh, the 439 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: places where they can dependently find the best patches of mushroom. 440 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: Do you remember the story in Michael Pollen's book where 441 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: he's going hunting for psilocybin mushrooms with Paul Statements, and 442 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: he's going to great pains to try to tell you 443 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: what he's doing without revealing the site of Paul statements 444 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: mushroom hash. Oh yeah, yeah, because Paul really doesn't want 445 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: people to know where he gets them. That's his honey spot. Now. 446 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: I think though, that you can certainly see that with plants, especially, 447 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: how this could be this intermediary zone between hunting and 448 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: gathering and cultivation where you realize, oh, well, the the 449 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: wheat that we can make into bread, it grows really 450 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: well here. Uh this is a place that we need 451 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: to keep secret or even protect from other other individuals. 452 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: This is our spot, This is our sacred spot that 453 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: we return to. It's a very interesting possibility. I wonder 454 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: what what would be the evidence that you could find 455 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: to back that up. I don't know. I have to 456 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: keep thinking about that. All right, we're going to take 457 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: a quick break, but we'll be right back. And we're 458 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: back now. Another interesting topic to to consider in all 459 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: of this is that that there is essentially a foraging gene. 460 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: Uh So the key gene of note in most studies, 461 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: especially with fruit flies and fruit flies, it's p r 462 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: KG one. Uh and uh. This is um. This is 463 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: something that we see presented in a wide variety of animals, 464 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: from fruit flies to even humans. But p r KG 465 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: one is president fruit flies and has previously been shown 466 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: to influence foraging behaviors. Researchers and studies that I think 467 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: date back to at least have looked at this and 468 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: multiple researchers found that one variant of the gene and 469 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: fruit flies induces what is called sitter behavior and in 470 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: the other's rover behavior. Now, the difference here is that 471 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: when a sitter enters an area containing fruit, the they 472 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: scalut the perimeter of the area and then they move inward. 473 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: They sort of you know, they scouted out, They make 474 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: a perimeter, and then they move in. Rovers instead move 475 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: right in and go for the first fruit they encounter. Interesting. Now, 476 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: the human form of the gene is apparently a nucleotide 477 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: polymorphism genotype called r S one three four, and in 478 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and nineteen, researchers from Canada, the US, and 479 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: the UK this would be struck at all um. They 480 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: experimented with it in a paper published in the Proceedings 481 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: of the National Academy of Science. UH. The title is 482 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: self regulation and the foraging gene p r KG one 483 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: in Humans. UH. Here's how the study went down. So, 484 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: the authors analyzed the genotypes of RS and four thirty 485 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: seven undergraduate students who performed two virtual foraging tasks. So 486 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: this was a touch screen situation in which subjects search 487 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: for and collected as many red berries as possible within 488 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: five minutes. And then so they compared the subjects with 489 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: C A or CC genotypes of rs UH. Individuals with 490 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: the A A genotype were more likely to hug the 491 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: boundary of the search environment, pick smaller berries, and stop 492 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: to pick berries and patches with fewer visible berries a 493 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: k A sitter behavior. The findings suggests that the A 494 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: A genotype is associated with a search strategy that restricts 495 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: exploration and exploits the local environment extensively. In other words, 496 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: distinct patterns of goal pursuit for foraging are associated with 497 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: particular genotypes of pr KG one. That's very interesting. Now, 498 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: as we've talked about on the show before, you always 499 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: have to remember when you're drawing correlations between particular gene 500 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: variants and a behavior. It's it's almost never going to 501 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: be like an on off switch that like, if you 502 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: have a certain gene variant, you show X behavior and 503 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: if you don't have it, you don't. But instead you 504 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: you'd be charting sort of like you know, percentages of influence. 505 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: Can can you see correlations between gene variants and a 506 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: and a tendency or a certain proclivity to a certain 507 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: type of behavior and uh and so yeah, this would 508 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: say that somehow foraging behaviors are downstream from things that 509 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: this gene does to the brain that makes you more 510 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: likely to kind of like go out on a long 511 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: search of versus try to exploit all of the resources 512 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: you can in your nearest immediate environment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Now, 513 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: and of course we also have to keep in mind 514 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: that the scope in the size of the study here. 515 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: But um, and also I should point that the authors 516 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: mentioned that the human foraging behavior is ultimately far more 517 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: complex than the the the foraging behavior fruit flies. And 518 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: instead of they're just being two distinct foraging strategies, it 519 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: seems like they are three. So you have sidderin rover, 520 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: but then you have a mixed uh disposition as well 521 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 1: the combines elements of both. But on top of that 522 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: that they point out that this would go beyond mere 523 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: foraging and humans, that that it that it would instead 524 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: impact human behavior regulation across multiple domains. And I think 525 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: we can imagine how, yeah, that would involve various things 526 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: that are like foraging, but also potentially impact just sort 527 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: of risk assessment, etcetera. Oh yeah, I mean, I think 528 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: it's easy to see how complex modern behaviors are in 529 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: a way kind of probably minor reconfigurations of traditional instinctual 530 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: behaviors like foraging, like hunting and that kind of thing. Uh, 531 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: So you can see how whatever we're most instinctually inclined 532 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: to do in terms of foraging could manifest in the 533 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: way you accomplish work around the house, in the way 534 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: that you, you know, go shopping or whatever. I mean again, 535 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: you you have to be careful about drawing too direct 536 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: an inference about anything like that, but the fact that 537 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: there's some kind of influences seems pretty clear. Alright, we're 538 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. 539 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: Thank And we're back now. Another aspect of early human 540 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: foraging tactics, and indeed, the way these these early humans 541 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: use spatial abilities to gather resources. Is that there was 542 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: seemingly a division of labor between males and females. This 543 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: is the sexual division of labor, sometimes abbreviated as sdl 544 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: UM and and this is a subject that has received 545 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: a lot of study over the years, especially of studies 546 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,719 Speaker 1: that look at extent hunter gatherer populations in the world. 547 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: And there are varying hypotheses for the evolutionary origins of 548 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: this divide. Now for our purposes here, I was looking 549 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: at a study by Lewis Pacheco, Cobas, Marcos Rosetti, Cecilia Quanti, Equoyees, 550 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: and Robin Hudson titled sex differences in mushroom gathering Men 551 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: expend more energy to obtain equivalent benefits and this was 552 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: published in Evolution and Human Behavior back in So the 553 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: authors here pointed out that the evidence was accumulating quote 554 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: that women excel on tasks appropriate to gathering immobile plant 555 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: resources while men excel on tasks appropriate to hunting mobile, 556 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: unpredictable prey. And this would be due so the thinking 557 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: goes to this ancient labor divide in human societies. But 558 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: it also means that intrinsic foraging abilities and tactics would 559 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: differ from males to females. So the researchers here decided 560 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: to put this to the test with a mushroom foraging experiment, 561 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: which is the other key reason to discuss it here, 562 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: because people are are This is an experiment that includes 563 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: not touch screen um practices, not some sort of touch 564 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: screen experiment, but an actual foraging for mushrooms. Let's forage. 565 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: So in their study they use GPS and heart rate 566 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: monitors that had been affixed to the researchers themselves, and 567 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: then these researchers would follow twenty one pairs of men 568 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: and women from an indigenous Mexican community in uh tux 569 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: Cola while foraging for mushrooms in the wild. So the 570 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: researchers are the ones where in the gear they're following 571 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: the actual foragers, but in doing so, they're going to 572 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: be able to chart where the foragers went and how 573 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: much energy seems to be expended in the silent hunt. 574 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 1: So they ultimately measured the costs, the benefits, and the 575 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: general search efficiency of everyone's movements, and then they analyze them. 576 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: The resulting foraging patterns showed that while males and females 577 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: collected similar quantities of mushroom rooms. Males achieved this at 578 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: a significantly higher cost, so the males they traveled farther. 579 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: The males climbed to greater altitudes. They had higher mean 580 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: heart rates and energy expenditures while partaking in the foraging, 581 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: and in addition, they also collected fewer mushroom species and 582 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 1: visited fewer collection sites. And this is interesting. They seemed 583 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: to focus on large patches of mushrooms, even if these 584 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: were harder to come by, so they were like bypassing 585 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: or not even looking for those smaller patches they wanted 586 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: wanted to get the big game mushroom patches. The females, meanwhile, 587 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: it seemed to know where to go and they foraged 588 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: from many small patches as opposed to seeking out those 589 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: greater patches of fun guy. This was also compared by 590 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: the way to previous research on the way males and 591 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: females navigate, which indicated that males tend to create mental 592 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: maps and then superimpose their position while womington to remember 593 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: landmarks and memorize the routes quote. These findings are consistent 594 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: with arguments in the literature that differences in spatial ability 595 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: between the sexes are domain dependent, with women performing better 596 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: and more readily adopting search strategies appropriate to a gathering 597 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: lifestyle than men. So basically the idea is that if 598 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 1: you were primarily charged with hunting prey two point five 599 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: million years ago, it made sense to travel far, to 600 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: take widening paths in pursuit of that big payoff prey, 601 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,720 Speaker 1: and then take the shortest, most direct path back home 602 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: so as to make up for all that time you 603 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: spent wandering and pursuing the prey. Meanwhile, if you were 604 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: tasked with gathering fungi or plants, it would serve to 605 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: remember where the most productive plant food sources were found, 606 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, those honey spots, and then retrace your steps 607 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: exactly so as to take advantage of them in the future. 608 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 1: And like, no, making a bee line back for camp. 609 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: That's very interesting. Uh Now. One thing that we always 610 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: got to say whenever you talk about studies that explore 611 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: sex differences is that people a lot of people like 612 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: to take these and really run with them and say like, oh, 613 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: this means that men are like this and women are 614 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: like that. I think we always try to caution people 615 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: not to not to over interpret findings of sex differences 616 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: in in particular studies. It's very easy, I think, just 617 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: because people want to have strong intuitions about gender and 618 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: sex and like what men are like and what women 619 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: are like and stuff that they want to say like, oh, 620 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: this explains why my husband does this or why my 621 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: girlfriend says that kind of thing. You can you can 622 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: easily go way overboard with with looking for explanations in 623 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, I mean it also it comes down 624 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: to what is the Barnum effect that we've discussed before, 625 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: where we say, oh, well, that's me, this this study 626 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: is correct because that's me. I totally am like that 627 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: when I go to the to the grocery store and 628 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: my my partner is like this, etcetera. But but yeah, 629 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: like you're saying, like, we're talking about general perceived trends 630 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 1: in the sexual division of labor and as reflected here 631 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: in particular studies. Uh so, yeah. I don't don't have 632 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: it printed on a T shirt or anything, but but 633 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,439 Speaker 1: it is interesting research and and certainly it was neat 634 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,760 Speaker 1: to find a study that was that was actually involving 635 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: mushroom foraging, like the scientific study of mushroom foraging behavior totally, 636 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: and it highlights how there can be different types of 637 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: foraging strategies that are effective in different ways. I was 638 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: looking at some other studies that were about different types 639 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: of foraging strategies and birds, you know, and how this 640 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting, like some birds tend to forage 641 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: by moving in little random types of motions around a 642 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: central locust, uh in a way that's very comparable actually 643 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: to the movement of tiny particles on the atomic scale 644 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: that's known as Brownie in motion and physics. Whereas other 645 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: birds tended to forage by sort of taking large leaps 646 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: at a time, and that these uh, these different strategies 647 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: could be differentially effective depending on what types of things 648 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: you're looking for while foraging, what the surrounding landscape is, 649 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: and things like that. Yeah, it's such a foraging itself 650 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: is just such a fascinating thing to think about, because 651 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: it's easy to just sort of dismiss it as this 652 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: kind of primal thing that we sometimes engage in when 653 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: we decided to go into the woods and look for mushrooms, etcetera. 654 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: But it is again something basic like neural activity that 655 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: we're continually engaging in and and something that also comes 656 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: down to this kind of like like this the basic 657 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,720 Speaker 1: mathematics of it, like how do you go about looking 658 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: for resources in a given area? And then how are 659 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: you how do you deal with spatial awareness in that 660 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: given area? Like there it seems like a rich domain 661 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: for you know, AI research and the like totally because 662 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: strangely enough, I feel like search activities are one of 663 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: the ways in which human behavior can be most closely 664 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: compared to what computer programs do. Does that make sense? Yeah? No, no, 665 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,240 Speaker 1: absolutely that there are some pretty direct analogies actually having 666 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: to do with energy is expended an efficiency in different 667 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: ways of searching through randomly organized material. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 668 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: I mean in the same way that you could imagine 669 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: someone in desiring an AI program that will find you 670 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: a good deal on something. There are also plenty of 671 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: humans out there like that's their thing, like let me, 672 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: let me help you find a good deal on that, 673 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: because I love looking for them. So yeah, I mean 674 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: a lot of it does come back to foraging. I 675 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: mean I would be interested in studies looking at foraging 676 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: behaviors in humans and animals compared to what search engines 677 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: do to get you your results. That would be interesting. 678 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: So who knows, perhaps we'll have some additional foraging episodes 679 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: in the future as as you and I go out 680 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: into the wilds seeking out fruitful papers on these topics. 681 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: Bring it on home, all right, We're gonna have to 682 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: call it there. Likewise, we weren't able to touch on 683 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: everything regarding mushroom foraging and foraging related topics here, but 684 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: we certainly would love to hear for rememberyone out there, Um, 685 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, are you involved in in mushroom foraging? Are 686 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: you an active forager or let us know your experiences. 687 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your insight on all of this. Likewise, 688 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: if you were if your culture of origin, or you're 689 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: you know, if you're immersed in a particular cultural uh 690 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: take on mushroom foraging, be it you know, the activities 691 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: or or beliefs and strategies tied up with the foraging 692 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: uh activity, let us know. We'd love to be enlightened 693 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,280 Speaker 1: on those topics. Huge things. As always to our excellent 694 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson, if you would like to 695 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode 696 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: or any other to suggest a topic for the future, 697 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: or just to say hello. You can email us at 698 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: Contact Stuff to Blow your Mind, Stuff to Blow your Mind. 699 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: It's production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts for 700 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: my heart Radio with the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 701 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. The four 702 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:12,479 Speaker 1: start