1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: Hey, Saturday listeners. Today we are visiting an interview episode. 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Fashion historian April Callahan appeared on our show as a guest. Now, 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: April and fellow fashion historian Cassidy Zachary have a podcast 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: of their own that is part of the House Stuff 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Works family, which is called Dressed. So listen to April's 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: interview and then check out Dressed the History of fashion 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: at Dressed podcast dot com. Welcome to stuff you missed 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: in history class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: Traytvie Wilson and uh Tracy. As you and our listeners 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: will recall. Back in January, we have fashion historian and 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: author April Callaghan of the Fashion Institute of Technology on 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: to talk about the stenciling technique of poshoir and her 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: amazing book on fashion plates that covers a hundred and 15 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: fifty years of style as it developed. And not long 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: after that interview, as April and I were emailing back 17 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: and forth, she mentioned a lecture that she gave a 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: few years ago about World War two fashion in France, 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: and I was immediately intrigued, and so she had sent 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: me some of the info about it, and I asked 21 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: her to please, please please come back and talk about that. 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: So that is what we were talking about today. Yeah. 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: I remember when that conversation happened and you were immediately 24 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: so excited. So Sydy say, yes, this cool thing, I 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: want to talk about it. H Yeah. Well, in addition 26 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: to it being something that is is one of your 27 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: personal interests, the subject itself is incredibly interesting and not 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: something I ever had thought out of before. Right, We've 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: talked on the show when fashion has been dictated by 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: world events because of things like there was a shortage 31 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: of fabric, so everybody wore things that required less fabric. 32 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: But this is a whole other way, more involved, uh, 33 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: timeline and and factors that we're looking at today. Yeah. 34 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that if you are maybe 35 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: a listener who is not into fashion stuff, I encourage 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: you to give it a listen because it might surprise you. 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: We are going to talk about fashion, but it's really 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: about how fashion became a tool for the people of France. Yeah. 39 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: So what Holly and April talked about in this interview 40 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: is how fashion reacts the times of conflict and how 41 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: fashion became a form of political resistance in France specifically. 42 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: So if you think a fashion is something frevolous that 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: people shouldn't really spend their time talking about, these insights 44 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: that April shares about the place of style and the 45 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: greater marketplace and economy of a culture might really change 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: your mind on that. Yeah, So let's hop right into alright. 47 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: So today, listeners, we once again have one of my 48 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: favorite guests ever, April Callahan, back to talk about some 49 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: fashion history. You welcome back to the podcast, April O. 50 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. I think I'm blessing right now. Thank keep 51 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: for having me. I'm always delighted to talk to you 52 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: because you always have cool information. And today we are 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: going to talk about, UH, fashion as a form of rebellion, 54 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: but not necessarily in the sense that people might think 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: of in terms of young people bending rules, but an 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: actual historical moment in time, which is France during the 57 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: German occupation in World War Two. UH. And April did 58 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: a lecture on this particular topic at Yale some years back, 59 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: and she was kind enough to share the notes on 60 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: it with me. So UH it seemed like just way 61 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: too rich and cooler topic to let go by without 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: doing a show on it. So first I have to 63 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: ask you what inspired you to research French fashion during 64 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: the German occupation? Yeah? Sure, so, UM, I think I 65 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: mentioned this last time I was on the show, But um, 66 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: the intersection of war and fashion has always been kind 67 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: of one of my special interests as a fashion historian. Um, 68 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: how does fashion react in times of crisis? To me, 69 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: this is a really fascinating question, and a lot of 70 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: really creative, interesting things happened to fashionable clothing and dress 71 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: during these periods of extreme conflict, when people are forced 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: to balance the basics subsistence that's required for their daily 73 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: lives with this innate human desire to outwardly define ourselves 74 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: to others as human beings. Closing, as of course, one 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: of the main ways that we practice defining ourselves to others. Um. 76 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: So a few years ago, I when I was invited 77 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: to speak at that symposium that you referenced at Yale, Um, 78 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: it was actually on street style. So I decided I 79 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: didn't really want to speak about contemporary street style because 80 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: I figured my fellow presenters were going to cover this 81 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: with a great prowess. Um. I wanted to do something 82 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: a little bit different, So I started digging back a 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: bit and I became entirely smitten with how these frenchwomen 84 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: were using fashion during the Nazi occupation as this really 85 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: active form of political resistance. And ever since then, um, 86 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: the sys something I've been into and I actively collect 87 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: both French and German fashion magazines from the time period um, 88 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: basically nineteen thirty nine to nineteen And to some it 89 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: may seem a little bit odd for the idea of 90 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: clothing and specifically style to be a really vital aspect 91 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: of a country's wartime experience, but this really really was 92 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: a massive concern in France when the German occupation began. 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: Can you talk about why that was the case? Yeah? Yeah, 94 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: I think that thinking about fashion and war together can 95 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: seem absolutely antithetical at first. And I'm gonna speak fairly 96 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: generally here when I say that many people view fashion 97 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: as a sort of frivolous, unnecessary luxury and they don't 98 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: give any do weight to its role in our economy. 99 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: But fashion is truly a cog in this wheel of capitalism. 100 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: For capitalism to work, the desire to consume has to 101 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: be sparked, and the fashion system the catalyst for igniting 102 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: consumers desires to replace still useful objects with new ones 103 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: that are perceived to be more in line with the 104 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: current mode, and this is a huge part of what 105 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: drives the marketplace. UM. But in terms of France, the 106 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: sun King himself, Louver the fourteenth recognized the significance of 107 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: fashion way way back in the seventeenth century and I'm 108 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: talking to sixteen hundreds here, and he started actively and 109 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: aggressively cultivating France's luxury industries as a way to strengthen 110 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: his nation's economy. And then what happened was, over the 111 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: ensuing century, France really established itself as this arbiter of 112 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: style for the whole rest of the world. So by 113 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: the time World War Two happened, by the nineteen forties, 114 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: there was an international casher associated with all things French 115 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: and especially French clothing. Fashion was therefore both a matter 116 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: of economic stability for the country but also a matter 117 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: of national pride. So it's not really that surprising that 118 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: it was a hot topic when the Germans sees control 119 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: of a large person of France UM. And also with 120 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: resources in nineteen and I mentioned resources, UM. These resources 121 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: were super important to the Germans to keep their war 122 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: machine functioning. It required all sorts of basic things like food, metal, fuel, Um. 123 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: It required wool and leather for clothing and silk for parachutes. 124 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: So um. Under the terms of the armistice, the Germans 125 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: retained the right to make demands of France's raw materials 126 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: and and this pertains. This is what happens a system 127 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: of ration NG starts to be implemented. Fuel was the 128 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: first thing to go scarce. Um. Three months into the occupation, 129 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: food started being rationed. Um. Food stuffs like meat, bread, milk, butter, 130 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: and eggs, really basic things. Sugar also, Um, those became 131 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: subject to rastion NG. But more important to what we're 132 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: talking about now. Um. Later that year, the Nazis instituted 133 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: restrictions governing the manufacturer and sale of clothing. And you 134 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: mentioned in your in your paper that they set up 135 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: this point system for allocating wardrobe vouchers. And I'm really 136 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: curious how exactly that worked and moreover, how it was 137 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: received by the French. And then, uh, you also talk 138 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: a little bit about a trend called system D and 139 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: I want you to talk about how that arose from 140 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: this whole voucher situation. Yeah, sure, So how the bachelor 141 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: system works was or worked UM was each French citizen 142 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: who held a food ration card. Because the food ration 143 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: system was implemented first UM. They were also issued coupons 144 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: which total thirty points and this was where their annual 145 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: clothing consumption. So were you to go into a store 146 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: of Bautique to buy something, you would have to present 147 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: your coupon and also pay for the pay for the 148 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: pay for the garment or accessory. UM. And this allotment, 149 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: this number how they assigned the points the value systems 150 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: to things. This is really at barely at subsistence level. UM. 151 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: So if you in a single year purchased one will skirt, 152 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: one short sleeved blouse and a pair of cotton stockings, 153 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: this is was essentially all you could buy for the year. 154 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: That was it UM. So you can imagine how this 155 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: was really demoralizing to the French. You know, fashion had 156 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: been part of their national identity for centuries. This is 157 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: this is something that they're very proud about and and 158 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: and for um. So what emerged in the wake of 159 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: this clothing restriction system is really super inspiring to me 160 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: at least. UM. A lot of French women decided that 161 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: they were not going to take this lying down. It 162 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: was really imp portant to them that they ripped them 163 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: retain their reputation for chic, and they started coming up 164 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: with all sorts of creative workarounds to these clothing restrictions. 165 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: The first tactic they employed became known as the stante 166 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: in French pronunciation or system D. You know, it wasn't 167 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: choice A, B or C. It was choice D. It 168 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: was like your fourth option, you know, the one that 169 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: you had very little choice but to accept. UM. And 170 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: what it was was a more extreme form of the 171 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: UM American campaign that got dubbed Make Do and Men 172 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: from the same time period, and both of these campaigns 173 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: encouraged the recycling, the reuse and repurposing of garments. So, 174 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: for instance, UM they would take old sweaters and unravel 175 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: them for the yard and then re nit them into 176 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: new garments. Or a man's old suit might be ripped 177 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: open at the seams to be used for the textiles 178 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: and re cut into a boy's suit or maybe a 179 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: woman's jacket. UM women would take lace or trimmings off 180 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: old garments that couldn't be repaired and then transfer them 181 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: onto new garments. But one of the funny and most 182 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: interesting examples of system Day that I've seen was detailed 183 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: in a French fashion magazine, UH, which provided the really 184 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 1: detailed instructions like practically step by step of how to 185 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: take dog hair groomed from long haired breeds like poodles, 186 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: and how to spin and card it and turn it 187 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: into knitting yarn. That's fantastic, it is, and I imagine 188 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: if you had rabbits you would be set with Angora. 189 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: And I'm also wondering what I had to say. I 190 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: love system Day in terms of just the d I 191 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: y angle to it is, so as you said, it's 192 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: very inspiring and it's sort of charming, even though it's 193 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: really a very I'm going to use the overword term 194 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: of fierce, but it it really is. It's such a 195 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: dig in, like just digging in your heels and going nope, 196 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: you cannot dictate what we wear. We're going to find 197 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: our own way. I love it, love it, love it. Absolutely. 198 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: There was like these fashions were defiance basically. Okay, so 199 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: let's now pick up my interview with April Callahan to 200 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: hear about how shoes in particular during this time actually 201 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: have echoes in contemporary fashion. I know you talk a 202 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: little bit about this in the research that you did, 203 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: but will you talk some about how rationing changed footwear 204 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: in France because I think that is fascinating. Yeah, yeah, 205 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: and it has an interesting twist and in connection to 206 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: contemporary fashion UM, which I'll speak about here in a second. 207 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: But shoes were a huge problem and occupied France UM. 208 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: In ninety one alone, the Nazis took for themselves five 209 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: million pairs of the country's overall production of eight million, 210 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: so more than half UM at this same time. Under 211 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: under the governance and rules that they instituted, the French 212 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: were only allowed to resole their shoes once a year, 213 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: and they were allowed to buy no more than one 214 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: new pair of shoes made from ration materials every four years. 215 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: So this is a huge problem. UM. Leather was one 216 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: of the main ration materials and seriously in short supply, 217 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: so cobblers started resoling their clients shoes with whatever materials 218 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: they could get their hands on, and some of these 219 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: were very bizarre UM, including old tires. They would waterproof 220 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: cardboard and use that and either braid or plate strips 221 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: of straw and use that to resole their clients shoes. UM. 222 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: But manufacturers at the time also recognize this problem, so 223 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: they started turning to these alternate materials that were unregulated 224 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: by German mandates and UM it's through this necessity that 225 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: one of the most iconic looks of the nineteen forties 226 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: was born. UM shoemaker started using wood, cork, and plastic, 227 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: all of which were unrashedun materials, and they started using 228 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: to create heavy platform and wedge shoes and the thickness 229 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: of these ensured the longevity of your purchase right because 230 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: the height would take longer to wear down. So any 231 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: of you out there who are fans of wood or 232 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: cork wedge shoes that are like super fashionable today, you 233 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: can you can think you can thank French ingenuity of 234 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: this period next time you you strap them on. That 235 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: is so funny to me because we think of that 236 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: as such, particularly in resort where cork cork shoes are 237 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: so popular, and it's all because of a time when 238 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: the idea of having resort time was really not in 239 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: the picture at all. So I love it. Uh. The 240 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: next thing I wanted to talk about was the rather 241 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: brazen move or plan on the part of Germany that 242 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: ended up thankfully getting derailed, which was that apparently there 243 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: was a plan to move the couture industry out of Paris, 244 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: which is terrifying. Uh, and how exactly did that get derailed? 245 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: Like how was that stopped? So? Indeed, yes, Um, plans 246 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: for the moving of the Paris couture industry to Germany 247 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: were well underway. Um. The Germans recognized the physical significance 248 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: of not only French couture but also their own domestic 249 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: fashion industries. Um. It's really curious and a point that 250 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of underscores the hypocrisy of the Nazi Party. On 251 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: one hand, Um, they were on the domestic confront, they 252 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: were officially promoting this archetype of the wholesome German house 253 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: route and mother wearing traditional dress. But on the other hand, 254 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: in practice they were actively supporting German high fashion exports 255 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: for a monetary game. Um. And I feel like it's 256 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: an important point here to make that the general German 257 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: populace were also subject um to clothing rationing starting in 258 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: nine but by that point within Germany it was almost 259 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: a moot point because so much of the country's own 260 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: resources had already been drained UM for years prior to 261 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: nineteen nine, the German people had kind of been railroaded 262 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: into giving donating whatever they could spare to the war effort. 263 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: You know. There there there are instances of young brides 264 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: that donating their wedding gowns to the cause because they 265 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: thought that the silk might be able to be used 266 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: for parachutes. Um. But yes, um. During the occupation, the 267 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: Germans raided the offices of the governing body of paris 268 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: okucher industry and they summoned the president at the time, 269 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: who was a couturier, Lucian A Long. And it was 270 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: a little bit of a complicated process of the Germans 271 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth, but Lalong was eventually 272 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: able to convince them that oat couture was too inextricably 273 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: tied to Paris that took forth it for a wholesale 274 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: deportment of the industry to Germany, that that would kill 275 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: its spirit, and and also that it was really kind 276 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: of an unfeasible proposition to export all of these tangential 277 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: industries that supplied the coutura. You know, you had the 278 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: tex bio manufacturers, you had ribbon and flower makers, you 279 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: have dyers, you have pleaders, bead makers, embroiners, milliners, you know. 280 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: To to move all of those peoples, with all those 281 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: people in industries was going to be a herculean effort essentially. 282 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: And your lecture was titled Sleeping Cobras. Will you explain 283 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: to us what a sleeping cobra was in the context 284 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: of fashion in France in the nineteen forties and how 285 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: was that style emblematic of France really kind of hanging 286 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: on to its national identity during this time of occupation. Sure, um, So, 287 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: I think the term sleeping cobra can be can apply 288 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: in a couple different ways. Um. I was kind of 289 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: using it in two different ways, and my reference there 290 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: um First it could be um as a metaphor for 291 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: these women right who were kind of silently protesting UM 292 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: with the fashions that they were wearing. But the phrase 293 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: itself um is something that's loosely based um on the 294 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: writings from one of the leading coutriers as the period, 295 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: Elsa Scaparelli. In one of her autobiographies, she wrote about 296 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: the hats that friendshipmen were wearing during and just after 297 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: the occupation, and a lot of people were legitimately shocked 298 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: when the first images of Paris appeared after the liberation 299 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: because the fashion seemed so strange, so bizarre. The silhouette 300 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: had really become extreme and exaggerated. It had these really 301 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: the wide, heavily paddaged holders, these tall, clunky shoes, and 302 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: the hemlines had risen, they become much shorter. Um. But 303 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: the hats, the hats, they were truly bizarre. Um. Scaparelli 304 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: called them an incredible horror. And she compared she compared 305 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: the giant turbans that these women were wearing. She compared 306 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: them two monstrous cobras that had eaten a huge meal 307 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: and crawled up to sleep. Um. And and ceasfil Beaten, 308 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: who was like great, um, you know, cultural touchstone of 309 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: the time, and bomb vivante Um. He said, they looked 310 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: suspiciously like domestic plumbing. Um, I know, I love it. 311 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: But the hats were really kind of One of the 312 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: main ways that French women were using fashion as a 313 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: form of political resistance during this period, and one of 314 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: the reasons for that is the materials. Um Many of 315 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: the materials used to make hats that were used in 316 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: millinery were unrestricted, so this became the sort of unexpected 317 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: medium through which women were able to wage a silent protest. 318 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: And Um, how this kind of happened was is that 319 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties hats were a little more trim 320 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: a little more tidy. Um. But in the nineteen forties 321 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: they wharphed into these really sort of outlandish, oversized creations, 322 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: and turbans grew so large that some of them actually 323 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: required interior wooden architectures that then would be wrapped and 324 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: swathed with like yards and yards of fabrics. So the shapes, 325 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: the sizes, and the trimmings of these hats were exaggerated 326 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: to the point of being ridiculous. And this was intentional. Um. 327 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: Women were basically flaunting extravagance in the face of the enemy. 328 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: They had no choice right but to where these threadbare 329 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: dresses or things were kind of like mended and passed. 330 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: You know, they were making do They were wearing shoes 331 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: which may or may not barely be holding together. So 332 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: it was through these hats. Um, this was their way 333 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: to express themselves. And sometimes these hats functioned explicitly as 334 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: objects of a revolt. Um. One of my very favorite 335 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: hats of the time period, which is in a collection 336 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: in France, Um, it was it featured a really wide, 337 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: upturned brim, and the brim had been printed with hash 338 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: marks that resemble, um, the hash marks of a radio dial, 339 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: and above that it was printed Post Parisian and Postpriision 340 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: had been a really popular radio station before the occupation, 341 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: and when the Nazis seized control of the media, it's 342 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: silenced Postprision and replaced it with a different station, the 343 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: pro German you know, collaboratives station. Um. So some of 344 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: these hats that they were wearing were actually quite pointed 345 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: in the political statements that they were making. And speaking 346 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: additionally of women who were really driving some of this protest, 347 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: will you talk a little bit about the mitta nets 348 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: and how they were really kind of the arbiters of 349 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: style in some ways? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um Mito 350 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: NEETs were women who worked in the fashion industry. Um. 351 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: Oftentimes they were young women, and they were really kind 352 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: of the hands or the worker bees of the fashion industry. 353 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: So they had all these technical skills, right, so they 354 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: took system day or System D to a whole new 355 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: level of sophistication. Um. They would so old scarves together 356 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: to create these wild patchwork textiles from which they would 357 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: create garments um. And they had all sorts of fun 358 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: with ribbons, because ribbons were unrationed, so they would sew 359 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: them together to make these really wide, whimsical skirts. Um. 360 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: But once again it was with the hats that they 361 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: were really sticking it to the Germans. Um. They made 362 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: enormous hats from loops and loops of ribbons and scraps 363 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: of cardboard and oil cloth. And sometimes they would build 364 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: like fully fashioned little vine yet and scenes into the hats. 365 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: You know, it might be like a reproduction of a 366 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: French village or a really important French chateau. Um. But 367 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: there was an article in Vogue about the Miternets right 368 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: after the liberation of Paris in n Um talking about 369 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: them and how many of their creations were intentionally made 370 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: to annoy the Germans. And and this is the point 371 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: that wasn't entirely lost on Nazi officials. Um. They actually 372 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: complained to Lucy and the long head of the stamperson 373 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: to Coal about it. And his response, which I think 374 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: he was probably loving every minute of what the Midnets 375 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: were doing, but his official response was I can't do 376 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: anything about this. These styles are not being issued by 377 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: fashion houses. And I think this really underscores. How a 378 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: lot of these styles of the period, um, this were 379 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: what you were saying, d I y fashion. These were 380 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: street styles created by the people. I love the idea 381 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: that just by virtue of walking down the street in 382 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: the garments that you have made and chosen to where 383 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: you are making a huge political statement. Uh. And in 384 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: talking about some of these sort of coded rebellious messages, 385 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: there is uh some stuff in your lecture notes about 386 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: coded messages on belts. You have to talk about these, Yeah, 387 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: because these are kind of great. Um. So women were 388 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: painting or on boardering belts. This is nothing new, um, 389 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: but they started doing it during the occupation with motifs 390 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 1: that frequently held hidden meanings. Um. You might see a 391 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: very pretty belt decorated with little derek delicate arabesques. Um, 392 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: but they're actually vs to symbolize victory. Um. Some of 393 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: the belts you see have musical notes on them, which 394 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: seemed pretty harmless and charming, but if you could read music, 395 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: you would know that score was actually taken from patriotic 396 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: French song. And one of my favorites of the period 397 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: was a belt that was entitled long Ago and it 398 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: was hand painted. UM and it was hand painted with 399 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: little images of favorite French dishes which had disappeared given 400 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: all the food shortages. That's so cool, um, I mean, 401 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that I suspect many people 402 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: at the time, like most German officers, who are not thinking, Oh, 403 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: I bet they're coded messages in those ridiculous belts. So 404 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: it's such a wonderful, sort of sneaky way to still 405 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: like assert your your feelings on the matter of occupation. Yeah. So, 406 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: in some alternate universe, the fashion industry moved to Berlin 407 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: and probably died off, and I being interested in fashion 408 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: and clothing, I'm selfishly glad that it is not this universe. 409 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: Thank you, Lucien lit Long. There's also I'm really interested 410 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: in some of the stranger trends that grew out of 411 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: this time, like the turban so big that you had 412 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: to have a wooden infrastructure under it. Yeah. Yeah, it's 413 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: it's a lot to think about, uh, wearing on your head. 414 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: And I really love the secret messages that are that 415 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: were embedded in some of the fashions of the day, 416 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: and the way the midd nets were purposely making annoying 417 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: clothes just to anger the Germans. April is so good 418 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: at like doling out so many really inspiring and interesting tidbits, 419 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: and now I totally want to embed secret messages and 420 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: everything I make. So next April is going to share 421 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: details of fashion at the race track during the war. 422 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: But first we're gonna have another brief break for a 423 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: word from one of our sponsors. So this last segment 424 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: is going to give you a really wonderful easter egg 425 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: about the term clothes horse, as well as some pretty 426 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: mind blowing information about how salons, or one salon in particular, 427 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: was using some very unusual power to dry ladies hair. 428 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: You also talk a little bit about how race courses 429 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: actually became sort of de facto runways during occupations like 430 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: you expound on that a little bit, so Um, the 431 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: concept of the race track as runway isn't actually something 432 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: that's unique to the period of the occupation. Um. Attending 433 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: the races was an immensely popular pastime for decades priorum. 434 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: Along with this theater. It was kind of the place 435 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: to see and be seen. UM, so much so that 436 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: fashion designers would send models or actresses to the races 437 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: dressed in their latest collections as a form of advertisement, 438 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: and this was really an established practice by the nineteen forties, 439 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: so the association in between women clothes and horses was 440 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: so strong. This is actually where the term clothes horse 441 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: comes from. Um. The models were there to work showing 442 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: off the clothes, just like the horses were there to 443 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: work racing. Um. And during the teens. Um, during the 444 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: nineteen teens, you also in in fashion periodicals you sometimes 445 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: also see professional models flange referred to as jockeys for 446 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: much the same reason. Uh. There was some some other 447 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: really wonderful tidbits in your your notes, and one of 448 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: them that just delighted me and sort of blew me 449 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: away at the same time is this piece about cyclists, 450 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: like bicyclists being used to dry hair in the salon 451 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,239 Speaker 1: of the hairdressers. Your well, you talk a little bit 452 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: about how that worked, right. So um, hand in hand 453 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: with all this other ration ng and shortages that are 454 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,959 Speaker 1: that was happening at the time. You can imagine it's wartime, right, 455 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: So coal was also in shortest supply, and at certain 456 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: points electricity was being rationed, so you may have you know, 457 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: a few hours of electricity here or there. Um. But 458 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: the hairstyles that were really fashionable at the time, required 459 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: frequent visits to the hairdresser to maintain that sort of 460 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: quoft waved look, and usually that would be set under 461 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: a hair dryer. So with all of a sudden spotty electricity. 462 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: There was one particular hairdressers your vase UM. He he 463 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: installed a tandem bike in the basement of his salon 464 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: and he hooked it up to this intricate contraption whereby 465 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: he attached his hair dryers to stove pipes and those 466 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: two fans and then the fans were were powered by 467 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: teams of of two people riding the bike in the basement. UM. 468 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: And this is something that Lee Miller wrote about UM 469 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: at the time, and she also u took photos documenting 470 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: this UM and this was another reason that turbans were 471 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: popular at the time. UM. So if your quaff was 472 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: less than ideal, if you hadn't been able to visit 473 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: the hairdresser, you could cover it, or alternately, you could 474 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: use a turban to cover a wet set when you 475 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: were leaving the salt a. I just love the idea 476 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: of these poor people trapped in the basement bicycling so 477 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: people can have beautiful hair. UM. She she writes that 478 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: she writes that they would power produce enough power to 479 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: dry around like a hundred women's heads a day. That's impressive. 480 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: You talked a little bit about uh, wedge shoes still 481 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: being a thing today, but was there were there any 482 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: other long lasting echoes in fashion from this sort of 483 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: stylish rebellion that was going on in France in World 484 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: War Two? I mean, I don't know so much about 485 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: the stylish rebellion part, but the nineteen fies are. It's 486 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: always a touchstone for fashion designers, so you always will 487 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: see from time to time these references coming back to 488 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: those really heavily padded UM, wide shoulders UM and the 489 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: narrow nipped waste um. Readily I can think of. I 490 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: think me and you did a really great collection in 491 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven that was kind of loosely based on 492 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: that solhouette. It was fantastic UM. But but yeah, really 493 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: it's it's where we are today with with the very 494 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: explicit connection between rationing and and fashion today would absolutely 495 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: be with the shoes, the platform of wedge shoes that 496 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: we were today. Uh. And I have to ask if 497 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: there were one style from this moment in time from 498 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: this sort of forced creativity that was going on that 499 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: you could bring back today. What would you choose? You know, 500 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's so much about a specific style, 501 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: um that I would bring back, and more about embracing 502 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: a certain energy or mood um. And despite the fact 503 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: that these were obviously very very difficult times, I don't 504 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I want to um gloss over 505 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: that these these were horrific times for a lot of people. 506 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: But in these fashions you can still feel the certain 507 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: jode vivra. Right. They were very spirited, they're very optimistic, um, 508 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: and sometimes they were outright funny and laughable. So I 509 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: guess what I would choose to take away from that 510 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: is like really embracing this sense of playfulness and fashion. 511 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: You know, have fun with fashion, be bold, don't be 512 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: afraid to make a statement. These ladies were making statements 513 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: all over the place, and um, if you want to 514 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: make a different statement the next day, that's okay. You 515 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: have her mission making and making another different statement, you know, 516 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: the day after. You know, you kind of catch my drift. 517 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: I think that if you're having fun with fashion, there 518 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: aren't any mistakes, at least in my books. Oh, a man. 519 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm still going to lobby though, for 520 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: the belts to come back, some belts embroidered with potatoes. Well, 521 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: maybe some designer will hear this and a little spark 522 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: will happen. We can only hope. I really love the 523 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: idea of music, you know, laid out on your your 524 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: belt or any other accessory. It's so sweet. Um Again, 525 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: I always feel so lucky when we get to talk 526 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: to you because you have so much cool information about 527 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: fashion and history. And last time you were on we 528 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: talked a lot about your book Fashion in the Art 529 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: of Poshoir and also your book fashion Plates, A hundred 530 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: and fifty Years of Style, which continue to be spectacular. 531 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: But there is a cool new development. Your fashion Plates 532 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: book is coming out in paperback this fall. Yes, it 533 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: is true, it is true. Um. It is actually already 534 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: available for pre order on Amazon. UM. So the previous 535 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: edition was a luxury edition for so for any of 536 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: you listeners who may have been detured by its hefty 537 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: price point. UM, there is now a much more attainable, 538 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: accessible version available on Amazon order and it will be 539 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: out in a few months. And if the cover is 540 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: the same one that's currently posted on Amazon. It's a 541 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: very cool cover, like you get some it is. I 542 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: actually just approved the back cover last week. Uh. And 543 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: I will once again sing the praises of that book. 544 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: I love it so much. It's just such a feast 545 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: for the eyes. And it's really the soul if you're 546 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: into design at all, whether you're into clothing or any 547 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: other kind of design, you see so much of like 548 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: how human taste is developing through the years, just by 549 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: looking at the clothing. So it's absolutely beautiful and I 550 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: can't recommend it enough. Uh, April, thank you so much 551 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: for coming and talking to us about World War two fashion. 552 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: How can people find you if they want to hear 553 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: more from you online? Of course? Um, So you can 554 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: follow f I T Special Collections on Instagram at at 555 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: f I T Special Collections, And you can also search 556 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: online for our blog where we cover really fun cool 557 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: things that we have, um and you can just search 558 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: f I T. Material Mode blog. The blog is called 559 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: material Mode. I'm actually going to post something fresh and 560 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: new right after we get off the phone here. So excellent, excellent, 561 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: and we will also put a link to that blog 562 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: in our show notes. April, again, thank you so much. 563 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: You're just a delight thank you treat. Like I said, 564 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us for this Saturday classic. 565 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: Since this is out of the archive, if you heard 566 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: an email address or a Facebook U r L or 567 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: something similar during the course of the show, that may 568 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: be obsolete now, so here's our current contact information. We 569 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: are at History Podcast at how stuff works dot com, 570 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: and then we're at Missed in the History. All over 571 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: social media that is our name on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Pinterest, 572 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: and Instagram. Thanks again for listening. For more enders and 573 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how staff works dot com. 574 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: MHM