1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: name is Nolan. They call me Ben. We are joined 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: you are you, You are here, and that makes this 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. It's quite possible 9 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: that some of us listening to the show today or 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: tonight are listening in a hotel or a motel or 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: an airbnb holiday and perhaps sure and perhaps or express 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: best Western or go classy, maybe a Western nights nights 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: in nights in something ritzy like the Ritz or Hilton. Yeah, 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: the hotel we're going to be speaking about today is 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: currently a Hilton property. Yerhaps nights in white satin. It's true. Yes, 16 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: you know that sounds actually not about nights at all. 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: It's about like knights asn't in the evening nights bathed 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: and dressed in white satin. Just realized that pretty recently. Unrelated, 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: But it's true. There are all sorts of strange things 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: that happen in hotels. Similar to um spending time in 21 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: an airport, Spending time in a hotel is is occupying 22 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: a limbo, a liminal space. It looks like a home. 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: You do things that you would do in a home, 24 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: but it's not really a home. There's something uncanny valley 25 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: about it. And today's story is about a very strange, 26 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: extraordinary thing that occurred in a hotel. And we don't 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: mean extraordinary in the way it's often misused today. Usually 28 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: extraordinary is meant as a compliment, but actually extraordinary just 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: means something out of the ordinary, and that is the 30 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: the way we are using it today. So let's set 31 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: the scene on January the second five, A well dressed 32 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: young man calling himself Roland t Owen walks into the 33 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: Hotel President in Kansas City, Missouri. The man is not 34 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: carrying luggage. He's heavy set. He appears to be a 35 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: fighter of some sort, or at least someone who's had 36 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: experience fighting, because he has a visible cauliflower ear and 37 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: a horizontal scar on the left side of his face. 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: Quick cauliflower ear thing. You'll see this if you google 39 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: images of a lot of m M A fighters. You 40 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: can see what that looks like. And it's a it's 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: a very easy thing to spot, right, This man calling 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: himself rolland t Owen requests the single room with no 43 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: windows facing the street. He pays cash, which you could 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: do at that time, right, which was the normal way 45 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: to pay for things, and he checks into room ten 46 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: forty six. When the cleaning staff goes by his room, 47 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, to change the sheets, change out the towels 48 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: and stuff, they find the man calling himself Rolling t 49 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: o and sitting in a dark room exhibiting signs of 50 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: profound fright. He tells the staff that he's expecting someone 51 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: to drop by. So okay, so far what we know 52 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: scared guy sitting you know, alone in a room that 53 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: he wanted to stay away. He wanted to be a 54 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: little more anonymous than usual hiding out in an hotel. 55 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: But it's you know, it's it's mysterious, but it's not 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: all that insane, right, Yeah, it's a it's a little 57 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: blair witchy though it reminds me of like the dude 58 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: standing facing the corner and the blair with you know, 59 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: and on its surface, it's not that weird, but when 60 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: you know a little more about the backstory, it becomes 61 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: even weirder. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And to explore this story, 62 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: we're going to shift through various differ print perspectives, primarily 63 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: people who work at the hotel. So first, what do 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: you say, let's start with the Maid's Tail. If we 65 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: want to make this Canterbury Tale esque or Hulu original 66 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: maybe oh yes, yes, yes, the non Handmaids tale. That's right. 67 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: So at ten thirty in the morning on January three, 68 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: the day after our our protagonist, I guess Roland t 69 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: Owen checks into the President hotel man calling himself Rollanto, 70 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: that's right, member of the cleaning staff goes up to 71 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: the room ten forty six where he is. She notices 72 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: that the doors locked, and she you know, it's kind 73 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: of a normal thing. Doors are locked when the cleaning 74 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: staff comes by. They knock generally in say housekeeping. She 75 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: opens the door, and she because she assumes that Owen 76 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: is out, maybe at breakfast or having a meeting or something, 77 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: because she notices the lights are off too, exactly, lights 78 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: are off, doors locked. I'm going to clean this room well. Instead, 79 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: As she opens the door, as we said earlier, she 80 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: sees him sitting alone in the dark. Yes, you heard that. Correctly, 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: just sitting there in the dark. Now, before you say 82 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: all that is so insane, I just have to bring 83 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: up a fact that I enjoy doing this a lot 84 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: actually to do that, I don't think it's that on you. 85 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: Right there with you, I spend hours each week actually 86 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: in locked in a bathroom in the dark with the 87 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: shower on, just sort of thinking nice. I definitely take 88 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: showers in the dark one I can. Am I the 89 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: outlier here? I think I'm the outlier here? Oh yeah? 90 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: Am I the only one that finds this strange? I 91 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: don't know. I got into it when I was a kid. 92 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: We had a drum kit in this room that had 93 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: no windows in it in my parents basement, and I 94 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: would go in there, shut the door and like use 95 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: a flashlight or something to turn the light on, go 96 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: sit down at my throne, and then turn off all 97 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: the lights and just practice playing drums in the pitch black. 98 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: And I found it to be riveting. Now, I just 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: like to do things like that. Didn't you have a 100 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: similar set up with your drum kit in your last 101 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: house too? I did, but it was in a basement 102 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: with one window. I don't know, man that basement When 103 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: I went down there. It felt like a kill room. Yeah, 104 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: and I have a very high tolerance for strangeness. I 105 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: think that was just the factor of the basement itself 106 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: having the drum kit was just a nice little where 107 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: the walls covered in plastic. Sometimes, Okay, when you know, 108 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: when season was right, you were not digging yourself out 109 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: of this the whole of weirdness very well, I don't 110 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about, Okay, So you so it 111 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: sounds like two thirds of us are on on board 112 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: with this. He might have also been dozing off or sleeping, 113 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: That's that's quite possible, right. But the made is standing there, 114 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, she notices or senses somehow this person sitting 115 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: in this room, and she realizes the room is in 116 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: fact occupied. And then Roland pretty much tells her not 117 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: to touch the lights, and he asked the maid to 118 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: leave the door unlocked as she exits, because you see, 119 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: he says he is again expecting someone. So this is 120 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: the second time he said this. And then, according to 121 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: a Mental Floss article that's written on this very subject, 122 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: it says that the maid ended up returning to that 123 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: room to deliver fresh towels, and this time when she 124 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: went in. She found Owen lying on his bed. Now 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: he's fully dressed, but there's a note on the desk 126 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: that read Dawn, I will be back in fifteen minutes. Wait, 127 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: and that's Dawn spelled d O N. Yes. So who's 128 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: now we've got done. We've got another person in the mix. 129 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: Is that like Donald or the Dawn? Oh my god, man, 130 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: I never thought about this is gonna this is gonna 131 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: come back around. Yeah, this does come back around. And 132 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: that's a good question. Is is it kind of the thing? 133 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of like saying sir, you know what I mean? 134 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: Or duke. Uh. Now we shift to the story of 135 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: the motorist later on the same night, January three, there's 136 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: a guy named Robert Lane. That is his real name. 137 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: He's not a guy who calls himself that. And he 138 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: is driving. He picks up a stranger a few blocks 139 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: away from the hotel president. So the man was dressed 140 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: only in pants and like an undershirt. Uh. And he 141 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: had a scar on his left arm, not an open wound, 142 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: but like a big, very obvious kind of gash of 143 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: a scar. And I was on his left arm. And 144 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: then when Lane told his passenger that he looked as 145 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: if he was having a rough night. The man replied, UM, 146 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: I will kill that babe tomorrow. Uh. And when this 147 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: beap comes, we come honestly by this beat because the 148 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: reports about this in the newspaper at the time in 149 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: the area, they removed this word and it's not clear 150 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: what it actually was. And this guy, Robert Lane that 151 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about, he he worked for the water department 152 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: in Kansas City, so it's not like he was just 153 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: some random guy out there. He was doing his job 154 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: when he interacted, right, And I have a proposition for 155 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: for the table for the show. I have a proposition. 156 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: We do not know what expletive he used, and we 157 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: don't know exactly what the newspapers decided to censor. We 158 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: may not ever knew it. But I stumbled across this 159 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: great anachronistic and I think I said this to you know, 160 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: this great anachronistic insult. So what if instead of saying, 161 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, and whatever, uh gutter tramp, I don't know, 162 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: whatever weird thing you want to put in there, what 163 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: if he said, I'll kill that sockdologizing old man trap 164 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: tomorrow s a pologizing old man trap. The old man trap, 165 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: the old man trap. I don't know why that tickles me, 166 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: but you're right, you're right. He he did work for 167 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: the water department. And then later when he's given the 168 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: opportunity to identify this hitchhiker who, as he said no, 169 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: was only in pants and an undershirt, looking like he 170 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: had been road hard and put away wet, he said, yeah, 171 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: that's the guy picked up and they said that guy 172 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: is Roland t Owen, or at least that's what he 173 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: calls himself. Now. On this same night, January three, just 174 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: a quick mention, he was allegedly seen around the town 175 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: at several bars, hanging out with at least two women 176 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: like that night, seen hanging around doing stuff with them. Uh, 177 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: the timelines are a little bit weird, just just a 178 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: little bit, but they say he was on twelfth Street, 179 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: which you know, isn't isn't that far Because we're we're 180 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: our last person, our Robert Lane. He he actually interacted 181 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: with Roland t o n Along, which is about a 182 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: mile and a half from the hotel. So, uh, distance 183 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: is not that far from there, right, all right, So 184 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: it's it's completely plausible that he could be in that area, 185 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: that there could be some sand to those those reports 186 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: which did not have UM, they didn't get widely publicized, 187 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: if I'm correct, they were sort of hearsayers, some rumors. 188 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: And we should also mention that the cleaning staff, the 189 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: member of the cleaning staff, her name was Mary Soptick. 190 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: As So, speaking of staff, and we are building a 191 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: case here, we are going somewhere with this, folks. I 192 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: know we're taking a circuitous route. But speaking of staff, 193 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: let's go to the first bell boy, who whose name 194 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: we don't have. So bell Boy one interacts around seven 195 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: am with our protagonist, Uh, it's January four, the phone 196 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: operator at Hotel President. Because you know there's an entire 197 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: system of phone lines going to all the different rooms, 198 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: there's actually a human being in that is operating these phones. Um. 199 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: This operator notices that the receiver, the telephone in ten 200 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: forty six where Roland is staying, is off the hook. 201 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: And so this bell boy goes up to check on 202 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: Owen and or at least to check up on the 203 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: phone itself. And when he gets there, he finds that 204 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: the doors locked and there's a do not disturb sign 205 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: hanging from the knob. It probably says something like um 206 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: narre a disturbance or something like that. Uh, he knocks 207 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: and he hears somebody from the other side of the 208 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: room say come in, and again he's like, doors locked, Hello, 209 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: doors locked. Um Man inside the room just kind of 210 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: ignores that. He's letting him know that the door is locked. 211 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: But then the guy says, turn on the lights. Kind 212 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: of hard to do that when you can't get into 213 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: the room. Bell boy just keeps on knocking, but he 214 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: ends up just leaving. But right before he leaves, he 215 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: shots through the door. He said he wants him to 216 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: put his phone on the hook. Right, it's just the 217 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: book Damn Power on the hook Son, because that's because 218 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: it's Hank Hill. That's yeah, it's an approximation of what occurred. 219 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: But yes, he just like yells at him to put 220 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: the phone back on hook. And the bellboy just doesn't 221 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: have his pass key on him at that moment, so 222 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: he can't go in and do it. So he just 223 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: kind of gives up and goes downstairs. An hour's pass 224 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: let's go to the second bell boy, different member of 225 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: the hotel staff, goes up later that afternoon. So at 226 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: seven am January four, when he has the first guy 227 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: has that weird interaction. In the afternoon, this different guy 228 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: goes up uh and he does have his key on him, 229 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: so he let himself into the room and he finds 230 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: the man calling himself rolling t o and lying on 231 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: the bed in the dark, and from what he could tell, 232 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: this man was very much naked and very much drunk. 233 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: He also sees that the phone stand has been knocked over, 234 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: so he doesn't turn on the lights. He doesn't say 235 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: anything to this naked man reaking a booze. He just 236 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: hangs up the phone, cuts his losses leaves the root 237 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: because at this point it's you know, it's been hours 238 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: and hours. The operator is like, somebody, hang up that phone. 239 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: I need order. I'm the operator here, hang up that phone. 240 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: So that bellboy just did it and got out. And 241 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: we have two more perspectives that are crucial to understanding 242 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: this mystery. Will get back to those after a word 243 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. So we have our first returning a 244 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: recurring guest star he or in this strange tale. The 245 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: first bellboy comes back. Yeah, as well as the phone operator. 246 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Yeah, I should give her more credit. 247 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: Do you think she was a smooth operator? One would 248 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: hope you geed because she she runs a tight ship. 249 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: She doesn't like phones being off the hook Hotel. That's right, 250 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: because when we were talking about this, Matt, I was 251 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: sort of like man very particular, because I mean, some 252 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: people might take the phone off the hook so they 253 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: won't be disturbed. So wouldn't it be kind of an 254 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: affront to be disturbed for trying to not be disturbed? 255 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: That's a good question, agreed. It Also it also may 256 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: be a situation where, given phone technology at the time, 257 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: having one thing off the hook could mess up the 258 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: line for other other patrons. And you gotta wonder too, 259 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: was it like a safety concern, you know what I mean, 260 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: where like they would want to be able to reach 261 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: you or let you know if there was a problem. 262 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I'm just wondering what what was 263 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: the urgency with sending a physical human to knock on 264 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: the door pretty aggressively if you ask me, Maybe she yeah, 265 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: heard this crazy noise on the on the all the switchboard, 266 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: and she was like, get this guy out of my 267 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: ear holes. But you don't want to say she didn't 268 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: want to say what she heard. She is the best 269 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: witness that we have yet too I like really even 270 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: discussed that we don't have information about we need someone 271 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: to go back to and interview the phone operator. Yes, yes, 272 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: if you have your time, don John t door right. 273 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: So so, like like you said, she's pretty ardent about this. 274 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: All phones shall be either in use or they darn 275 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: well better be hooked and on their proper stand So 276 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: she's a bit of a stickler. Perhaps she sends one 277 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: of the staff members up to check this out. He 278 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: opens the door, he's got his key on him, and 279 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: then he finds the man calling himself rolling t o 280 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: and still naked, still nude, um but viciously brutalized. Someone 281 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: has eaten the tar out of him and he is 282 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: on the edge of death. Of course, the hotel calls 283 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: the cops. The cops find blood spatters festooning the walls, 284 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 1: the bed, the bathroom. Roland t Owen the guy who 285 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: calls himself that it appears to have been tortured, so 286 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: not just roughed up, but maliciously, purposely victimized, with an 287 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: emphasis more on um making things painful rather than just 288 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,479 Speaker 1: immediately killing the guy because he was stabbed. I believe 289 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: dozens of times very shallowly, which into which you know, 290 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: would show you that it was something to keep him 291 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: alive in order to maybe make him talk or just 292 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: extend that pain as much as possible. Yeah, good observation, right, 293 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: because it's very messy to kill someone with a knife, 294 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: but it's very easy. So whomever it was, they knew 295 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: what they were doing and they did not want to 296 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: immediately kill him. His skull was also fractured from what 297 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: appeared to be a series of tense impacts from a 298 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: blunt object. Somehow, old boy is still alive, at least 299 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: for a second. And goodness gracious, did he have a 300 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: strong desire to cover up who had done this to him. 301 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: He literally said I something along the lines of I 302 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: tripped and fell, you know, onto a knife repeatedly. Yea 303 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: very strange thing to say. He was trying to protect 304 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: something or from body else, or or you know what 305 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: he had done, Like if maybe perhaps if the police 306 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: knew who did this to him, they might know something 307 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: that he had done. So maybe he was self preservation, 308 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: or maybe he's protecting a third party, or maybe he 309 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: was involved in criminal activity. I mean, that's what you 310 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: would think if your law enforcements. Once I slipped and 311 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: fell and maybe he was just like, I'm not a rat. 312 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: You know, it could be it. He also could have 313 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: been completely insane from the pain in torture and just 314 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, and it probably had a undergone some brain 315 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: damage from me and whatever kicked in the head. I mean, 316 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: if he had a serious fracture there, well that's almost 317 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: certain because the next thing that happens to Roland is 318 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: he slips into a coma and he doesn't make it 319 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: through the night. Yeah, he's not in the coma for long. 320 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: He dies that evening. So this brings us to today's question, 321 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: what happened to the man calling himself Roland t Owen. 322 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. It turns out there is 323 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: no Roland t o and matching the description of this corpse. 324 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: There are several people with the name Roland Owen in 325 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: the world at this time and in the United States, 326 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: and there are plenty of dead people who have that name, 327 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: but none of them are this person. Roland t Owen 328 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: cannot be identified, and so law enforcement takes attacks that 329 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: may be surprising to some of us here in nineteen 330 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: I've never heard of this happening in the modern day. 331 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: What do they what do they do. Okay, so, yes, 332 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: this is it's very strange and we've talked to We've 333 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: all talked about this off bike. How I don't think 334 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: any of us have ever heard of this exact technique 335 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: for identifying somebody, um, even for other John does I've 336 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,719 Speaker 1: never heard of this. Yeah. They they literally propped him 337 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: up in a funeral home like window, which is one 338 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: of the most maccab things I've ever seen. First of all, 339 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: if I was walking down the street and saw that 340 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: with my kids or something like that, I would consider 341 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: that a personal affront. I certainly wouldn't be like, oh, look, 342 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: it's Steve. I'd be like, Jesus, what is that. Get 343 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: me out of here? Uh mom, you know. And it's 344 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: not a good thing, not a good look. But yeah, 345 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: they do this and it actually uh yields some hits, right. Yeah. 346 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: Several people around the area do recognize Roland t O 347 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: and from various encounters with him while he was on 348 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: this side of the veil, but none of them know 349 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: him as anything other than Roland. And the police are 350 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: at this point, we should add, the police are befuddled 351 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: and they think that there's something, um, something else at place, 352 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: something beyond the mundane although horrific tragedy of of homicide 353 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: because we didn't mention this when they found Owen right, 354 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: and we said he was naked, but his hotel room 355 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: had also been ransacked. There were no towels, no shampoo, 356 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: He didn't have any clothes in the room. He had 357 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: a label for a necktie, a hairpin, cigarette, a safety pin, 358 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: and a small sealed bottle of sulfuric acid. What what 359 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: are you doing with that acid? Man? Well? Then, also, 360 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: don't they find a broken glass of some sort somewhere? Yeah, 361 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: in the sink with the jagged edge. And the only 362 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: prince they've found because they didn't have fingerprint technology in 363 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: the nineties. Uh came from the telephone stand. And the 364 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: police for some reason correct us if you're a friends dexpert. 365 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: But the police, for some reason say, well, these finger 366 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: prince of a woman. He is that profiling? But I 367 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: guess it would be if it's police officers trying to 368 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe the person just had dainty hands. 369 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:20,479 Speaker 1: Who knows. People could identify his bodies. Some knew him 370 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: as Roland, but other people knew him by different names. 371 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: You know, we don't have those names today. But I'm like, oh, 372 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: that's Alvin or Alfonso or Beauregard, I don't know. And 373 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: it turned out he stayed in more than one hotel. 374 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: Before he stayed at the Hotel President. There was another 375 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: hotel called the mule Bach Hotel and they knew him 376 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: as Eugene case Scott. Yeah, and they said he like 377 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: stayed there for one night and that was it and 378 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: didn't want windows facing the street. Yeah, m what is 379 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: he up to you? Oh? He also stayed the same 380 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: regions another nice hotel in the area. Um oh, in 381 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: this time. His name, now this is gonna be we 382 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: don't want to spoil too much, but his name here. 383 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: He called himself Duncan Ogle Tree at that hotel, and 384 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: he shared a room with another man who was known 385 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: as Donald Kelso. There's our Don Don? Is that our 386 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: don Don Donald Kelso? Uh. Then there was a wrestling 387 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: promoter who said that Owen, remember looked like a fighter, 388 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: had approached him a few weeks ago or a few 389 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: weeks earlier and said, I'd like to sign up for 390 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: some wrestling matches, but don't call me Roland t Owen. Um, 391 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: my name is Cecil Warner. Cecil Warner. Interesting so all right, 392 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: now I'm getting a little more of a picture. I'm 393 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: assuming we're everyone listening. All of us have heard of these, 394 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: I guess a smaller wrestling matches or more localized wrestling matches. 395 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: They can range from like family friendly to the macabre. Essentially, 396 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: now I imagining all these like shallow cuts on him 397 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: and injuries to his head. He's a local wrestler that 398 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: maybe takes things too far, but we'll get into that later. Yeah, 399 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: this is not entirely related or tenentially related at best, 400 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: But have you guys ever seen those kind of local 401 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: wrestling matches? I saw it when I I saw one 402 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: where the blood was definitely real and these guys were 403 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: not We're not faking it all due respect to the 404 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: k FABE or whatever they call it w w E, 405 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: but these guys were actually beating the snot out of 406 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: each other. The one that I went to was super 407 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: theatrical in the sense that like, the bad guy was 408 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: often some sort of foreigner I'm doing fingers and uh, 409 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: and that the good guy was like swathed in like 410 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: an American flag or something that, and there was sound, 411 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: real hooting and holler and from the stands. I was 412 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: out in on the country out in rural Georgia. It 413 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: was a body was a real experience were we were, 414 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: we friends and we met when you went it was 415 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: pretty recently, Okay, Yeah, because I feel like I remember 416 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: that story, I would still I would still go check 417 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: out one of those matches. But yeah, maybe maybe he 418 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: was involved in something related to wrestling, to fixing a match, right, 419 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: or something with the organized crime, but participating in a match. 420 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: But that's that's the thing. The police or at their 421 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: wits end due to the circumstances of the discovery and 422 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: the circumstances of this man's death, they say they need 423 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: to identify them because they have the feeling that this 424 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: may be a bread crumb leading to something much, much, 425 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: much more sinister. And they put his body in display, 426 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: on display, and they put take out an ad to 427 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: got ads telling people to help and to show up 428 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: at this funeral home for the viewing. Hundreds of people go, 429 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: and as we said, a lot of them know this 430 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,239 Speaker 1: guy under various different names, and far be it from 431 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: me to criticize anybody for traveling under different names. Well, 432 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: a lot of it goes back to that scar that 433 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: he had on the left side of his face right 434 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: and the ear in the ear, because it's just something 435 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, then you just would recognize that. 436 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: So people are following this story in the local papers 437 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: of the time, and the million dollar question is who 438 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: the hell is this. Eventually people just throw out their 439 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: hands and say, you know, we tried our best. You 440 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: can't win them all. They make plans to bury the 441 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: body of the man calling himself rolland t West and 442 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: Eugene and Cecil and so on in an unmarked grave 443 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: at a potter's field. And a potter's field is where 444 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: bodies will be interned if they have no survivors to 445 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: take care of them, or if they have no funds 446 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: or no no will, or they can't be identified. Now, 447 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 1: just okay, let's go back to when the news article 448 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: comes out where they're announcing here's this unidentified person. Let 449 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: us know if you've heard of this person before, an 450 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: anonymous person. A woman calls the local paper and she 451 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: says that somebody somewhere, some anonymous person is going to 452 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: pay for a proper funeral for this person known as 453 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: Roland and um. When when the local paper inquires about, well, hey, 454 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: do you know what happened to him or why he 455 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: ended up in this state. She says, quote, he got 456 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: into a jam, got into a jam. Who is this 457 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: Dennis Reynolds? This is like a Dennis jammed up when 458 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: you get jammed up, buddy. Oh boy. But but seriously, 459 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: that's that's a strange thing to say, right And shortly afterwards, 460 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: another person calls it anonymously. This time it's a man, 461 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: and they called the funeral home and he confirms that 462 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: he'll be paying for the funeral of this um person 463 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: calling themselves Rolling t Oen, and he has some conditions 464 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: along with his payment and says, not only will I 465 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: pay for the funeral, but he is going to be 466 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: very is my wish they be buried in this specific cemetery, 467 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: and then he says he'll be near my sister. The 468 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: man mentioned specifically Memorial Park cemetery, And if we were 469 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: to paraphrase, he tells the hotels law enforcement that Roland 470 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: had jilted a girl that he, the unidentified caller, had 471 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: planned to marry, and that the three of them had 472 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: met up at the hotel. President Oh, and the caller says, 473 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: cheaders usually get what's coming to them. I'm not sure 474 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: why you're all southern, but it's just fun. I think 475 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: I think we're just feeling it, you know, And we 476 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: would we would need to put in some more research 477 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: to really give a Missouri accent. Kansas City. That's what 478 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: people call you, right, they call you Kansas City. So 479 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: he hangs up right after he says, cheaters usually get 480 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: what's coming to them. Dial tone, noise, the whole nine. 481 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: Multiple unidentified people send flowers to the funeral. One order 482 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: for flowers, five dollars worth of flowers, has a card 483 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: attached and it says love Forever, Louise l O U 484 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: I S E. And then time passes. It isn't until 485 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: six when a woman from Birmingham, Alabama reads an account 486 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: of this unsolved murder in the magazine American Weekly, and 487 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: he she thinks it's fairly apparent in the article that 488 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: this guy's name was not Roland t Owen, nor was 489 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: it any of the other names he used. Most likely, 490 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: so this lady says, this corpse might be the missing 491 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: child of my good friend. He left home in April 492 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: of nineteen four, but his name isn't Roland, and we'll 493 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: tell you what his name is. After award from our sponsor, 494 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: all right ready for this Artemis ogle Tree. You recall 495 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: ogle Tree from earlier Duncan ogle Tree. Yes, yes, interesting. 496 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: So the woman who finds this article in American Weekly, 497 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: she reaches out to artemiss mother, Mrs ogle Tree, and 498 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: she goes on the mother to positively confirm the body 499 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: of rolling t Owen as that of her son, and 500 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: law enforcement says, all right, we believe you. We agree 501 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: with your claim. The timeline checks out. This is your son. 502 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: We have finally identified this victim. It is Artemis ogle Tree. 503 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: He had left home. He had left Alabama in April 504 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: of n ostensibly to travel to California. But it's weird 505 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: because for some time the family, the ogle Tree family, 506 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: thought he was completely fine. You see, sometime after ogle 507 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Tree's physical death, the family had received two letters from Artemis, 508 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: two typewritten letters after his murder, where he claimed everything 509 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: was fine, don't worry about him. Plans have changed. He's 510 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: now travel the world. Oh wow. So they did not 511 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: know he was dead, but he certainly didn't write these letters. 512 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: That's right because generally when the mother had received letters 513 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: from her son, they were all handwritten in a very 514 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: specific handwriting that her son uses. Uh. These typed out 515 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: writer letters were much more formal than what she was 516 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: used to receiving um, which definitely made them at least 517 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: set them apart and made her a bit suspicious about them. Then, 518 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: before the mother actually found out that the son was dead, 519 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: she had received a phone call from some man, some 520 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: I guess anonymous person, but this person called themselves Jordan's. 521 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: This is so weird. Yeah, and he claimed Jordan's Uh 522 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: claimed that Artemis was now living in Cairo, Egypt, had 523 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: become married to some at least unknown to the mother, 524 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,479 Speaker 1: wealthy woman, and that everything was okay, and he was 525 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: just he was living out his life now in Cairo. Yeah, 526 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: it's very strange. So the authorities said, let's not push 527 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: our luck. We'll settle for identifying the body. You know this, 528 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: we may never identify the murderer or the murderers, but 529 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: it's amazing that we're able to bring closure to this grizzly, 530 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: grizzly story. So these letters, by the way, said various 531 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: different things. One said he was in Chicago, one said 532 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: he was sailing from New York to Europe. These it 533 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: appeared as though they were real time updates. And at 534 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: this point we can try to go a bit further 535 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: than the police went. We don't have to settle for 536 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: just identifying the body. You see, In the decades, almost 537 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: a century of time since the discovery of the the 538 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: murder and the death of Artemisoical Tree, hundreds of thousands 539 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: of people have been working the case, attempting to figure 540 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: out what actually happened to this poor, unfortunate young man. 541 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: And they've built some pretty interesting theories. Here. Was it 542 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: a jilted lover our situation? We've talked about those possibilities. 543 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: Did the unidentified male caller have a part in ogle 544 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: Tree's murder? Yeah, that's right. Was one of Was he 545 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 1: possibly one of Louise's siblings? A relative of some kind? 546 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: Was Memorial Park Cemetery a place where ogle Trees spurn 547 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: Lever could visit her grave? My question there, though, is 548 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: why why barry your enemy next to the person who 549 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: he wronged, who you did him in for. It feels 550 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: like a mob move. He feels like a mob move 551 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: or a kind of a twisted, uh, some sort of 552 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: weird vengeance kind of thing, like where it's like a 553 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: power move. I don't know, it's very very weird. It's 554 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: like Luis, you're my sister. I love you, but I 555 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: cannot let this disrespect go unpunished. Right there you go. Well, 556 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: let's get back into just the concept of the jilted 557 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: lovers theory here. So what we do know, or at 558 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: least what we have heard here throughout the story, is 559 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: that perhaps uh Ogletree was in the middle of some 560 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: kind of love triangle. And it's the question then, is 561 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: whether or not, like which side of the triangle he's on. Essentially, 562 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: was he betrothed to someone where and he messed up? 563 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: Was his partner messing up in some way doing something 564 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: with someone else, or was the other person like the 565 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: husband or something to that effect. So, and there's really 566 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: no way for us to know for sure like what 567 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: that situation was, and it's difficult to go down all 568 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: the different paths and try to figure that out. But 569 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: we do know that the Dawn character was somehow in 570 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: his room involved in some way. At least there would 571 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: be more information there if you could find it with 572 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: this person and the other Louise as a possibility, and 573 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 1: then you've got the fingerprints. I would say that's one 574 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: of the more promising theories, one of more promising Avenues. Yeah, 575 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: there's another thing that occurs in nine seven. There's a 576 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: guy named Joseph Ogden. That's the alias. He never says 577 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: his real name, and the police don't believe him. He 578 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: is arrested for the murder of his roommates. Turns out 579 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: Joseph Ogden is not. This guy's only a k A. 580 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: He's also been known to go under the moniker of 581 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: Donald Kelso, and his description matches the description of the 582 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: Donald Kelso who had stayed at the St Regis with 583 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: Artemis when he was going by the name Duncan Ogle 584 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: Tree dude. But again, here's the deal this. I guess 585 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: there wasn't much else to learn here or it was 586 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: just never pursued for one reason or another, So we 587 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: don't know anything more about this lead. And then let's 588 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: bring in Jordan, the caller you brought up. Could this 589 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: guy have actually like that caller who called himself Jordan. 590 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: Could that have also been Kelso slash Ogden? Whoever that 591 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: guy was um? And was he just trying to cover 592 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: his tracks by saying, Oh, he's out in Cairo somewhere, 593 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: don't worry about him, and he's fine. But either way, 594 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: this person Jordan. This caller made himself very suspicious, right, 595 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: because all we know about this caller is that they 596 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: called themselves Jordan's. They don't present identification or a birth 597 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: certificate or anything like that. And frankly, we have two 598 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: people who were definitely using multiple fake names, right Kelso 599 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: and Ogletree. We don't really know why they were using 600 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: these fake names, and that that, I think is is 601 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: a fascinating twist to this tail because that's something they did. 602 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. It was much easier 603 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 1: to travel under an assumed name at the time. This 604 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: has caused some people, and you can find these in 605 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: various like uh independent investigation threads or or the excellent 606 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: subredit Unresolved mysteries, various people have due to the secrecy 607 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: and in the fact they was traveling at one point 608 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: with another guy. They've said perhaps he was assuming a 609 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: false identity to pursue a same sex relationship, which would 610 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: have been very controversial at that time. But in all fairness, 611 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot like there's no proof that 612 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: that was not the case, but there's not really any 613 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: proof that it was the case. So that's clearly speculation. Absolutely, 614 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: it could It could be sure, but who knows. Um. Well, 615 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,479 Speaker 1: the other big question is was there any kind of 616 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: drugs drug involvement one way or the other in use, 617 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: were in sales perhaps, Yeah, I don't see how. I mean, 618 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: I kind of almost lumped that in with any potential 619 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: mob connection, right because part and parcel of the same 620 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: kind of toxic relationship. You know, it seemed like he 621 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: was drinking very, very heavily, at least by the time 622 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: he got to a hotel. President. Yeah, I don't know 623 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: about the other stuff. Well, so okay, So using assumed 624 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: names because you're doing something, you're you're involved in some 625 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: kind of illegal activity. That's why you don't want it 626 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: to be known who you actually are. That's so that's 627 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: what we're saying. Um, I mean, I can I can 628 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: imagine that there's a Isn't it kind of known that 629 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: in Kansas City, Missouri, around the nineteen thirties, organized crime 630 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: was a thing. Oh yeah, this might this might be 631 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: surprising to some of us listening, but it's true. The 632 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: Kansas City Crime Family, also known as the Savella Crime Family, 633 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: as a mafia mafia outfit based in Kansas City, Missouri. 634 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: They've been there since nineteen twelve, when the founders, the 635 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 1: di Giovanni brothers, fled sicily and landed in Kansas City, Missouri. 636 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but when I think 637 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,240 Speaker 1: of Kansas City, I think of stuff like barbecue, or 638 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: maybe there's some great art museums. But I don't immediately 639 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: think of the Mob. I'm just gonna admit that I 640 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: don't think about Kansas City, Missouri enough, and I vow 641 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: to think about it more very to that. Vow very seriously, Matt. 642 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: You can't vow lightly, sir. I'm gonna quiz you on 643 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: Kansas City in a week's time. I just know there 644 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: was a place I think in New York called Max's 645 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: Kansas City, and it was not in Kansas City. That's 646 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: all I know. A restaurant. I think it's like it 647 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: was a famous music venue. Okay, well, here's here's the 648 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: weird thing. Not only is the Mob a force to 649 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: be reckoned with in Kansas City, Missouri, but they had 650 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: a lot of parag governmental control, meaning that you know 651 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: you you've heard the stories. We also have a great story. 652 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: I've got to tell you guys off air to see 653 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: if we can get it on the show. But we've 654 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: asked some of your fellow listeners before to send in 655 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: stories about small town corruption. Kansas City in the while 656 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: it's not a small town in the turn of the century, 657 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,240 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, Uh, there is a lot 658 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:33,439 Speaker 1: of rank corruption. Prohibition ended in three So just like 659 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: a few years before, Artemis Ogletree meets his untimely end 660 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: and the family made a lot of calling off prohibition. 661 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: But they also diversified, so they have different rackets protection 662 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: money from bars and restaurants, right and things get ugly. 663 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: They're involved in politics too, you know, uh, cooking the 664 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: books and the race for governor of Missouri and things 665 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: like that. So it is completely possible that when we 666 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: when we add up these dots, these bread crumbs, it's 667 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: completely possible that there's an argument for a criminal underground 668 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: or the mob. Can I add one extra thing on 669 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,879 Speaker 1: top of this mob connection, because I can totally see 670 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: this reasoning and we've illuminated it pretty well. What if 671 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: he's on the other side of the law. What if 672 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: he and Dawn or maybe just he was actually an 673 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: agent of some sort that was investigating some of the 674 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: organized crime and that's why he ended up getting taken 675 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: out m M. And then that's the mob connections that 676 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: are arranging his funeral or you know, paying for his funeral, 677 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: putting him by his sister. What if he was a rat? Maybe? 678 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: I mean, the only the cops did hold that funeral, right, 679 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: there was a funeral service, But the detect is on 680 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: the case. We're the only people who attended the funeral, 681 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,879 Speaker 1: which also makes you think, you know what I mean, 682 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 1: because it's just a case. Why would you go to 683 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,800 Speaker 1: the funeral to case the joint to see if anybody 684 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: shows up, right, to see if someone takes the bait, 685 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: or if he is a part of your team, or 686 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: if he's you know, if he's one of those undercover cops. 687 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,919 Speaker 1: People work undercover at that at that kind of level 688 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: of intelligence. It's brutal life, and you know a lot 689 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: of times they're never in the spotlight. They can't compromise. 690 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, why Ben, thanks, Matt, I was just gonna 691 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: keep saying each other's names in the statement, So breaking 692 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: up you two? So um, it is true, It's it's 693 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: not proof positive. It is true that the Kansas mob 694 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: could and did murder multiple people in this time period 695 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: with out a ton of interference from regional or federal authorities, 696 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: some because they were bought off or they were already 697 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: in the thick of the corruption, and others because their 698 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: hands were tied. All right, So is that the end 699 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: of the story? Not? Not? Not? Really, this is very 700 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: strange because we have to ask ourselves whether a cover 701 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 1: up persist. You see, decades and decades later, there's a 702 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: researcher based at the Kansas City Public Library, and like 703 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: a lot of residents from residents of Missouri or residents 704 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: of Kansas City, this researcher has has a hobby they 705 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 1: look into this these kind of cases, so they are 706 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: familiar with the case of Artemus ogle Tree. They receive 707 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: an anonymous phone call and the caller first starts asking questions, 708 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: have you heard of the Ogle Tree case? You heard 709 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: of the person calling themselves rolland t o En and 710 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: they say, yes, I'm familiar with it. I'm a researcher. 711 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,320 Speaker 1: And then this anonymous caller says they had someone who's 712 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: close to them pass away and they've been going through 713 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: the belongings of this person because they died quite recently, 714 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: and they found a box. Within this box, there were 715 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: multiple newspaper clippings all about the same story, the so 716 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,879 Speaker 1: called mystery of Room ten forty six. But that's not 717 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: all they find. They also say they find something that's 718 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: the quote, something that was mentioned in these articles, and 719 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: then they hang up. These people have terrible phone etiquette. 720 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: It's like out in television and in film. No one 721 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,800 Speaker 1: ever says goodbye on the phone, and there's immediately a 722 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: dial tone. As we know, it is not how phones were. 723 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: So that's where we're left at this point in twenty nineteen, 724 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: the old Artemis ogletree rowin to your story. That's that's 725 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: where we're left. Who was this mystery caller? Was it 726 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 1: a surviving relative of Ogle Trees murderer and a surviving 727 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 1: relative or friend of his former lover, his paramore? What 728 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: do you think, honestly? Do you think it was mob involvement? 729 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: Do you think it was just a I love triangle 730 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: gone wrong? Uh? What? Just tell us tell us your 731 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: best theory and support it please with arguments. Then then 732 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: we will combine all of those, and Ben and Oil 733 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 1: and I will sit around a desk somewhere and we'll 734 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: figure it out, just just to ourselves. We will tell you, guys, 735 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: about it. And also if you are listening to this 736 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,840 Speaker 1: and you are related to someone with inside knowledge of 737 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: this case and you want to break it down for 738 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,239 Speaker 1: us anonymously, we'd love to hear you out. You can 739 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: write to us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter, 740 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, or conspiracy stuff and 741 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 1: or conspiracy stuff show in those places. If you don't 742 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: want to do that and you want to tell your 743 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: story in three minute bursts, you can call our number. 744 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 1: We are one eight three three st d w y 745 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: t K. Leave a message. I've got it up on 746 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: my phone again, so I'm I'm like going through them 747 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: and putting more stuff out. Did you guys hear the 748 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: really weird message we got? I haven't listened, all right, 749 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: we should listen to it. It's pretty fun, it's it's great. 750 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: Somebody out there has a great sense of humor. Uh well, 751 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: you'll hear it soon. It immediately made me want to 752 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: do another listener call an episode. We have a treasure trove. 753 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: We also have The three of us also have personal 754 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,439 Speaker 1: instagrams if you want to follow our individual adventures. Yeah, 755 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: mine is at Embryonic Insider, I am at Ben Bullen 756 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:55,800 Speaker 1: and mine is at sitting in the dark alone playing drums. 757 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: All just pictures of Matt sitting in the dark alone. 758 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: So in the dark. No lights look really dark. It's 759 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: just really you have to turn the sound on, right. Yeah, 760 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: that's it. You just hear me breathing. That's what the 761 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 1: kids call it. Weird flex. Yeah, yeah, there we go. 762 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,839 Speaker 1: And if none of that quite bags your badgers. If 763 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,800 Speaker 1: you're tired of social media, you hate being on the phone, 764 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: but you want to tell us, uh something about this 765 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: case or something fascinating from your neck of the global woods, 766 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: we are all ears or in this case eyes. You 767 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: can write to us directly. We are conspiracy at how 768 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.