1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it ever end with

2
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:18,919
Speaker 1: this guy Alex Murdogg? Major twist? Will this double killer

3
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 1: actually walk free? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

4
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:50,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I can see his brain. Gee.

5
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 1: I wonder why Alex Murdog because you shot him. That's

6
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: what a jury said. But now, in a stunning and

7
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 1: very upsetting twist, it looks like Alex Murdog could walk free.

8
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 1: How How is that possible? Because it appears if I'm

9
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: reading the two leaves correctly, what the South Carolina Supreme

10
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: Court is going to do is grant him a new trial?

11
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,759
Speaker 1: Is that going to happen? So what am I supposed

12
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:29,959
Speaker 1: to believe him and his lawyers or the court clerk

13
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:31,759
Speaker 1: who is accused of wrongdoing?

14
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:32,399
Speaker 2: Hmm?

15
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 1: Speaking of lying and who to believe?

16
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 2: Listen, moilbo, I mean my wife? And oh no, well

17
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 2: you know, Mariam, I bear my sword, no bear ground

18
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 2: out at my perils. I'm really glad.

19
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So let me understand I'm supposed to believe him

20
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 1: and his lawyers over the court clerk straight out to

21
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 1: Mark Pepper, high profile lawyer joining us, uh joining US

22
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 1: out of Charleston with the Pepper Law firm, Mark, I'm

23
00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,240
Speaker 1: supposed to believe him. You can hear him lying. The

24
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: jury found him guilty. He did you do you hear that? Uh?

25
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,919
Speaker 1: It's my wife and my son and I like you

26
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: and I'm screaming and the carrying on. It's all lies.

27
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,519
Speaker 3: I don't disagree, and certainly the jury didn't. I mean,

28
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 3: as you may recall, he took the stand for what

29
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 3: seemed like forever. In everything that came out of his

30
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 3: mouth was a lie. I'm not so sure why anybody

31
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 3: would believe him at this point.

32
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 1: Nancy, Okay, did anyone tell Mark Pepper he's supposed to

33
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 1: argue with me and take the other side.

34
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 3: I'm happy to do that. Well, you may not necessarily

35
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,400
Speaker 3: have to believe in Nancy. Maybe I don't either. But

36
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 3: if the Supreme Court of South Carolina believes that the

37
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 3: jury tampering affected the outcome of his trial, it may

38
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 3: not matter to them whether he was lying or not.

39
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 3: If his sixth Amendment right to a fair and impartial

40
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 3: trial was violated, then they'll let him lie again on

41
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 3: the stand at a new trial. That's the issue this

42
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 3: before us, that's come out of this bombshell ruling last

43
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 3: week by our Supreme courts.

44
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: I'm stunned. Hold on straight out to Jennifer Wood, joining US,

45
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 1: Director research at fitznews dot com, Fiitsnews fitznews dot com.

46
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 1: Who was really all up in this story from the

47
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: beginning about three inches up Murdock's tailpipe. Jennifer, thank you

48
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 1: for being with us. What is happening? How is this happening?

49
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 4: You know, this is the story that will just never end.

50
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 4: But you know, really what we're looking at is the

51
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 4: allegations that Becky Hill, the Clerk of Court in Calleton

52
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,160
Speaker 4: County now former Clerk court, tampered with the jury by

53
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,760
Speaker 4: talking to them about the about the merits of the trial,

54
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,160
Speaker 4: and that Wonder said that that affected her decision.

55
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 1: One juror said it affected her decision. Jennifer Wood joining

56
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,239
Speaker 1: us from Fiatznia's did that. One juror state it would

57
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,039
Speaker 1: have changed her decision had that not happened, because that's

58
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 1: the standard, that is the legal standard.

59
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 4: It's interesting how she phrased it. She said that she

60
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,919
Speaker 4: felt influenced to find mister Murdoch guilty by Becky Hill's

61
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 4: remarks before she entered the jury room.

62
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 1: Well Jennifer Wood, You're absolutely right. Let's hear it from

63
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 1: the horse's mouth. Listen.

64
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 3: Was your verdict.

65
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 2: Influenced in any way by the communications of the clerk.

66
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,560
Speaker 1: Of court in this case, yes, ma'am?

67
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,240
Speaker 3: And how was it influenced?

68
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:20,919
Speaker 2: To me?

69
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: It felt like.

70
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 5: She made it seem like he was already guilty, all right, and.

71
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 6: I understand that that's the tenor of the remark she made.

72
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: Did that affect your finding of guilty in this case? Yes, ma'am.

73
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 1: That sound was from our friends at wlt X. Hmm. Okay,

74
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 1: that is ger r Z who says that an offhand

75
00:05:53,839 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 1: comment by the Clerk of court, Becky Hill, affected her decision.

76
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,239
Speaker 1: You know what, I find that really hard to believe.

77
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining US, high profile psychoanalyst and author

78
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 1: of deal Breaker. You can see you're on peacock right

79
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 1: now and she's at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,

80
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 1: how would an offhand comment by the calendar clerk, the

81
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,799
Speaker 1: court clerk just kind of erase the weeks and weeks

82
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,840
Speaker 1: of testimony you've had where alex Urla got up there

83
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 1: on the stand and was proven to be a liar,

84
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 1: proven to be a liar, and all that, all the

85
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,599
Speaker 1: ballistics evidence, all the nav system evidence, all of the

86
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: digital evidence. Yeah, forget about that. It was because Becky Hill, Yeah,

87
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,040
Speaker 1: watched him on the stand. Wait, that made her vote guilty.

88
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,720
Speaker 5: Nancy, that's giving Becky Hill a lot of power, isn't it.

89
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 3: You're right?

90
00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 5: Weeks of testimony, blatant lying on Murdoch's part, him getting

91
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 5: up and taking the scand himself and being so unbelievable.

92
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,400
Speaker 5: Besides the fact, Nancy, there's wader before they choose the jurors.

93
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 5: These jurors are very well schooled and taught as to

94
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 5: how to engage in critical thinking when it comes to

95
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 5: a trial. It's not like they enter the jury pool

96
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 5: with absolutely no instruction. They're also a part of a community.

97
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 5: They talk to each other, they talk things over and then, Nancy,

98
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,960
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, there's just common sense

99
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 5: when you hear all this testimony. Murdoch shot his wife

100
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,200
Speaker 5: and son, the heineous nature of the crime. Why would

101
00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 5: one comment from a court clerk override all of that.

102
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 5: It doesn't make sense. So I would wonder, you know,

103
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,920
Speaker 5: what else is motivating this store. I'd have to examine

104
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 5: her in person to know, but it's something other than

105
00:07:58,880 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 5: the fact that she.

106
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 1: Was in Okay, what exactly aren't the claims? Because yes,

107
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: Becky Hill, and I'm not taking her side, and I'm

108
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: not taking anybody's side, but it's really hard for me

109
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 1: to think of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Hey,

110
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 1: the Caniar clerk, the court clerk made an inappropriate comment.

111
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 1: She told the jury to hurry up with a verdict,

112
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 1: and that somehow translates into a new trial. Yes, the

113
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,000
Speaker 1: court clerk made a book deal for one hundred grand,

114
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,880
Speaker 1: but does that mean Murdog is not guilty? How did

115
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,400
Speaker 1: her having a book deal, which we may frown upon,

116
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,920
Speaker 1: But how does her having a book deal get him

117
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 1: a new trial? Shouldn't she just be reprimanded? Why do

118
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,839
Speaker 1: we have to have a new trial and jeopardize a

119
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 1: true verdict? I'm not getting it. What exactly are the

120
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 1: allegations because this is somehow turned into Becky Hill versus

121
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 1: Alex Murdogg. I mean, if that's my choice, I'm clearly

122
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 1: going to rule against Murdog, but the law must be

123
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,439
Speaker 1: followed whether we like it or not. First, what are

124
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 1: the allegations listen.

125
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 7: In a bombshell ruling, the South Carolina Supreme Court will

126
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,559
Speaker 7: consider whether interference from a court clerk helped sway the

127
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,840
Speaker 7: jury in convicting Alex Murda of killing his wife, Maggie

128
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,319
Speaker 7: and youngest son Paul. Murdall. Lawyers say Becky Hill tried

129
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,439
Speaker 7: to get the jury to convict Murdall to help push

130
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 7: sales of a book she is writing about the case

131
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 7: in general and specifically about the trial.

132
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm hearing that, But Jennifer Wood joining me, Director

133
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,640
Speaker 1: research Fitznews dot com. Yes, she had a book deal,

134
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,559
Speaker 1: Yes she published a book based on the Murdog saga.

135
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,320
Speaker 1: But what does that have to do with whatever she

136
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: allegedly said to the jury. What does she say to

137
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 1: them about a book deal? And how does she push

138
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,319
Speaker 1: them to get a guilty verdict? And how would a

139
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 1: guilty verdict be more sensational than a not guilty. I mean,

140
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 1: I sat through the evidence as you did, Nifer Wood.

141
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,560
Speaker 1: I was not surprised when they found him guilty. It

142
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,719
Speaker 1: would have been much more of an explosion if they

143
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 1: had found him not guilty, like Totmom, like OJ Simpson,

144
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: like Robert Blake, the Shacker is they let him go.

145
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:21,560
Speaker 1: So how does her having a book deal somehow equate

146
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,679
Speaker 1: to them finding murdog guilty under duress?

147
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 4: So testimony from Rhonda mcaleene, who is the Clerk of

148
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 4: court in Barnwell County, South Carolina and was in Callton

149
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 4: helping Becky out during the trial, was that Becky had

150
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 4: told her that a guilty verdict would be better for

151
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 4: her book sales. So that is the defense's argument that

152
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 4: she was motivated to sell more books and was pushing

153
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 4: the jury towards a guilty guilty verdict.

154
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So because she made the comment, wow, my book

155
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 1: is a lot better if they found guilty, that has

156
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 1: been used to claim her comments to the jury. I

157
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,760
Speaker 1: don't care if they were financially motivated. I don't like it.

158
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,719
Speaker 1: But what matters is under the law, and correct me

159
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,520
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, Mark Pepper. What matters under the law

160
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 1: is did her comments, whatever the motivation be, did they

161
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 1: affect the outcome of the trial. But for those comments,

162
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 1: would there have been a different verdict? Isn't that what matters?

163
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't matter her motivation as to the comments.

164
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 1: What matters is did it affect the verdict? Right?

165
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 3: Mark, that's a great point. It doesn't necessarily matter what

166
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,439
Speaker 3: she said. What matters is whether it prejudiced mister Murdoch,

167
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,439
Speaker 3: the defendant in this case. How do we show prejudice, Well,

168
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,040
Speaker 3: we have one juror saying that, but for the comments

169
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,559
Speaker 3: made to me by Becky Hill. And let's keep in

170
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 3: mind it wasn't just that one comment.

171
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 1: That's not what she said, Mark Pepper, that is not

172
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 1: what she said. Ah h, hold on, She did not

173
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,839
Speaker 1: say but four.

174
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,959
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say. It's not a butt four test.

175
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 3: It simply did have an outcome on the verdict. In

176
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 3: other words, it was it a fair and impartial verdict.

177
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 3: And what this one particular juror is saying is that

178
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,520
Speaker 3: she influenced my vote. She doesn't have to go as

179
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 3: for the law doesn't require you to say I would

180
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 3: have voted not guilty. It simply says she influenced my vote.

181
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 3: She is an outside for she works for Colleton County.

182
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 3: She's the clerk of court. She had twenty four to

183
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,240
Speaker 3: seven access to these jurors. She also mentioned to them,

184
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 3: as testimony revealed the hearing that as he approached the

185
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 3: witness stand that morning to testifind his other defense, she

186
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,079
Speaker 3: told the jurors, don't let him fool you. Don't let

187
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 3: him fool you. That juror has said those comments affected

188
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 3: her and therefore violated six minute right. The prejudice is

189
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 3: the only test that's going to before the Supreme Court.

190
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,560
Speaker 3: I don't know that he gets more blatant than that.

191
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,280
Speaker 3: When you have an elected official influencing the jury verdict

192
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 3: or at least one of the jurors, and it takes

193
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 3: all twelve a unanimous verdict in the state of South

194
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,920
Speaker 3: Carolina to convict one of those was influenced by Becky

195
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 3: Hill's comments.

196
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,319
Speaker 1: Name's Maggie Murdoch, okay, and what's your son's first name?

197
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,000
Speaker 1: Is Paul Kerry Murdoch?

198
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 3: Where they are?

199
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 8: Yes, that's what it looks like.

200
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,040
Speaker 1: Deja vou all over again. Joining me an all star

201
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,360
Speaker 1: panel including Jennifer Wood from Fitz News to doctor Michelle

202
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: Dupree joining us for now forensic pathologists, medical examiner, former

203
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 1: detective with Lexington County Sheriffs and author of a brand

204
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 1: new book, Money, Mischief and Murder Them murdog Saga the

205
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:07,319
Speaker 1: rest of the story, and she, like me, endured every

206
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:12,040
Speaker 1: day of the trial, and it was painful knowing what

207
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,679
Speaker 1: the evidence was to unfold, and then seeing Murdog on

208
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: that body caim where he's like crying and all upset.

209
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 1: He just shocked his wife and his son as his

210
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 1: son was trying to get away, and we believe Maggie

211
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 1: Murdog tried to stop him, and she's dead too, And

212
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 1: there he is crying and carrying on in front of

213
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,000
Speaker 1: the police when they get there, when they respond to

214
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: that nine to one one call, doctor Michelle Dupree, we're

215
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,120
Speaker 1: talking about Becky Hill and her book deal and oh

216
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: she's so awful. Okay, granted she should not have said

217
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 1: a word to the jury period, but good morning, there's

218
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 1: lunch and goodbye. That's it. According to Jerrr's she did speak,

219
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 1: and at least one of them says it affected the verdict.

220
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,080
Speaker 1: Is that true? I find it hard to believe. But

221
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 1: if the juror says that, that's all the court has

222
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 1: to go on. Can we have a little reality check

223
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: about what happened to Maggie and Paul. And this is

224
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:26,920
Speaker 1: why I'm so upset, what was done to Maggie and Paul.

225
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 8: When Nancy, first of all, I actually attended that hearing,

226
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 8: and I saw that juror who said that, And I

227
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 8: have to tell you, I don't think she was that credible.

228
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 8: There was some questions. In fact, one of the other

229
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 8: attorneys actually wanted to bring her back, and Judge told

230
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 8: to Deny that he wanted to bring her back so

231
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,000
Speaker 8: she could further explain her answer. So, I mean, this

232
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 8: is crazy. I think it's absolutely crazy. But what happened

233
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 8: to Maggie and Paul is horrific. They were shot by

234
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 8: someone that they loved, that supposedly loved them, and not

235
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 8: just shot, but shot.

236
00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 1: In a horrible way.

237
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 8: He was shot at least four times, maybe five rifle

238
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 8: was shot twice with a shotgun. That is a devastating injury.

239
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 8: And I think many people cannot get their head around

240
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 8: how a father could do that to their son or

241
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,520
Speaker 8: as he said, his child.

242
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 1: You know, you stated that a shotgun was used as

243
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 1: a murder weapon. Explain why that is so barbaric, Nancy.

244
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 8: That is so barbaric because the shot that comes out

245
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 8: of that is widespread. It, for lack of a better word,

246
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 8: it literally can blow someone's head off, and that is

247
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 8: approximately what it did to Paul. You see in the

248
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 8: photographs are showing this is brain matter, skull tissue. There's

249
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 8: no coming back from that. And to do this to

250
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 8: someone that you love, that is a horrific way to die.

251
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 8: And he was shot twice. Paul knew who was shooting him,

252
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 8: Maggie knew who her assailant was. This is unbelievable and

253
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 8: to have a new trial based on something like this

254
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 8: is absolutely unbelievable.

255
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 1: Brain matter, skull blood, Paul's head was blown off his body,

256
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:23,880
Speaker 1: Maggie chased down and shot. Now the specter has raised,

257
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: he is set for a new trial. I'm just you know,

258
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: to Chris McDonough joining me, director of the Cold Case Foundation.

259
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,280
Speaker 1: I found him on his hit YouTube channel, the Interview Room,

260
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:47,920
Speaker 1: but important to me, former homicide detective with over three

261
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 1: hundred death inquiries under his belt. Chris, do you see

262
00:17:53,400 --> 00:18:02,120
Speaker 1: that photo? Blood was literally just absorbed by dirt. They

263
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: were gunned down outside there at the dog kennel. The

264
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,200
Speaker 1: digital evidence places were like there. His own navigation system

265
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 1: in his vehicle places him there. We can even see

266
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 1: when he rolls his window down to throw Maggie's cell

267
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: phone out of his car to go alibi himself en

268
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: route to his mother's home where he stayed just long

269
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 1: enough to then go back to the dog kennel and

270
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 1: quote find end, quote the bodies and call nine one.

271
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh, when you think about the barbaric nature of

272
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 1: these two murders on the mother of your two children

273
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 1: and your child, your child, it is just gut wrenching

274
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 1: to think, Chris mcdonnaugh, this is going to be reversed

275
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 1: over some off hand comments by the clerk.

276
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, Nancy, I mean, if we take this right in

277
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 9: its totality, this is a very barbaric act. The fact

278
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 9: that you have the mother of now her deceased child

279
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 9: is slaughtered in the same manner as the child herself himself.

280
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 9: And now you have the father, who is that individual

281
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 9: who's been convicted of this crime. Now think about this.

282
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 9: The father chooses a shotgun to blow the hat off

283
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 9: of his child, but he's he's not satisfied with that.

284
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 9: He does it again. He fires that shotgun again. That's

285
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 9: the crew de grag just to make sure that that

286
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,600
Speaker 9: child is gone. And then that blood in the dirt,

287
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 9: that's Mom bleeding out from multiple gunshot or multiple gunshot wounds.

288
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 9: He's laying there. She may have witnessed her son being

289
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 9: murdered by her ex, by her husband and that child's father.

290
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 9: This is far barrack. And now we measure that against

291
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 9: two affidavits that were taken by the defense with these jurors,

292
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 9: and one of the jurors says, well, you know, we

293
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 9: didn't know we were going to spend the whole night

294
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 9: and some of us smoke, and we didn't know we

295
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 9: couldn't take smoking breaks during the deliberation process. This is ludicrous,

296
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 9: It really is.

297
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall joining me, psychoanalyst and author.

298
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 1: You can see Ron Peacock now, doctor Bethany, just the

299
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: way that Chris mcdonna said that. And I'm going to

300
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: circle back to Jennifer and doctor Michelle about the wounds

301
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 1: to the victims. But what he just said, I don't

302
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: think I can't think of anything worse in this world

303
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: than to see harm come to one of my two children,

304
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: much less what Maggie witnessed. It's just when I think

305
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: about it, shooting not only your spouse, but your spouse and.

306
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 5: Your son, decimating your entire family and Nancy. As Chris

307
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 5: McDonough was talking, the thought crossed my mind. When was

308
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 5: there a dawning of consciousness for Maggie? Was that split

309
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 5: second where she saw her son's head get blown off?

310
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 5: Did she realize what was happening? Did it just hit

311
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 5: her from out of the blue. You know, Alex Murdoch

312
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 5: is not attached to anybody, just himself. And when you

313
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 5: think about it, why did he kill them? Because he

314
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 5: had this elaborate Ponzi scheme going. He would spend money

315
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 5: out of clients trust accounts, and once you'd own that money,

316
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 5: then he had to sure more money from another client's

317
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 5: trust account and we know the story. It went on

318
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 5: and on, and now there was a trial coming up

319
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 5: in which he was potentially going to have to pay

320
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 5: more money because of his son, the Mallory Beach situation

321
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 5: with the boat being driven into the peer and the

322
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 5: girl that was ejected and killed. So like the Ponzi scheme,

323
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 5: he had to figure out a way to either smack

324
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 5: people out or get more money. And I think this

325
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 5: was a part of his mo in terms of killing

326
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 5: Makie and his son.

327
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: And I've just better to the.

328
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,239
Speaker 5: Juror for a second. I don't think we can have

329
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 5: it both ways in our customs justice system. We can't

330
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: say I trust you, the juror, to make the appropriate

331
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 5: decision about whether or not this man is guilty. But no,

332
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 5: I don't trust you juror to be easily swayed by

333
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 5: somebody's comment. So is the jur trusted or is the

334
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 5: jur not trusted? Which way is it? So? I think

335
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 5: this whole whole thing is fallacious. Of argument about Becky Hill.

336
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: You know Mark Pepper joining these high profile criminal defense

337
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: attorney and Mark, you can't even argue that this was

338
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: spur of the moment. He did a passion where he

339
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: got into an argument. It just went crazy and shot

340
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: them or shot one in anger and then shot the

341
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: other one because he didn't want to witness. Because he

342
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: lured Maggie to that location. They're hunting a lodge out

343
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: a mozelle. He lured her there. So this was planned

344
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: in advance. I mean, they had plenty of guns and

345
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: ammunition there, but he planned it. This was cold blooded

346
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: to murder his wife and son in cold blood.

347
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 3: We watched the same trial, Nancy, and respectfully, I don't

348
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 3: recall evidence to that effect. I recall that there were

349
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 3: some cell phone downa that put him at the scene

350
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 3: within a seven minute window or so.

351
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 1: But I don't recall oh Don just a moment. Pepper,

352
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood, let's correct, Mark Pepper. That's why he wins

353
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: all of his because his revisionist history revit his version

354
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,719
Speaker 1: of the facts. Isn't it true, Jennifer from vis News

355
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: that Maggie told her friends, I don't know why he

356
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: wants me to go all the way out to Mozelle.

357
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: He wants me to come back to the Hohing Loss

358
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: and she was worried on her way out there. She

359
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: didn't want to go. Isn't that true, Jennifer? Would she did?

360
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 4: He did want her to come out there, but it

361
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 4: was because his father had been admitted to the hospital.

362
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, now when I go to the hospital, Jennifer.

363
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Why not meet at the hospital?

364
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 4: I believe he was in Savannah, rather than have her

365
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 4: drive all the way to Hampton from out of Still

366
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 4: Island where their second home was.

367
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: Alex murdog on path to get a new trial. Will

368
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: he walk free? I've got to decide. Am I believing

369
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: him and his lawyers or am I believing Becky Hill

370
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: the clerk. Now let's take a look at Murdog's credibility.

371
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: Remember this.

372
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 10: Can't thinking now.

373
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: One one ways your emergency? Oh sofa hatchie road?

374
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 10: Okay, what's going on?

375
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 2: I stopped.

376
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 10: I got a flat tire and I stopped and somebody

377
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 10: stopped to help me. And when I turned my back,

378
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 10: they tried to shoot me. Okay, will you shot? Yes?

379
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 10: But oh may I'm okay.

380
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: I'm shot in the head, but I'm okay. This elaborate

381
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: ruse for what insurance money? His lawyers then claimed he

382
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: had traumatic brain injury. But he shows up in court

383
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: a few days later with a band aid on his head.

384
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: And here he is lying to nine one one, and

385
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: then later through his lawyers, lying to the court about

386
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: his attack on the side of the road.

387
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 10: Listen, you shot where where were you shut at?

388
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: Huh?

389
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 10: They actually shoot you, They're tied to shoot you. They

390
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 10: shot me. But okay, wait you need ems? Uh huh? Well,

391
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 10: I mean yes, I can't drive, okay, And I'm bleeding

392
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 10: a lot. When we're part of your body, I'm not

393
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 10: sure somewhere on my head you're not.

394
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: Bleeding a lot. You're lying. You're actually fine. This was

395
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: all a setup arranged by Alex Murdogg. To get what else? Money? Money?

396
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: It's all about money, you know, I'm trying to understand,

397
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood. As you recall, Murdog set up to this

398
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: whole scheme where he would be shot on the side

399
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: of the road for money, and there he is lying

400
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: about it to nine one one, and all of this

401
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: came out at trial.

402
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 4: It shure, did I mean when it happened? Shortly after

403
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 4: we realized that the vehicle he was driving actually had

404
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 4: run flat tires, so he claimed that he stopped a

405
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 4: change of flat tyre And quickly we realized that he

406
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 4: didn't even need to. That car would have kept driving,

407
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 4: so it really fell apart. And then during the trial

408
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 4: the prosecution managed to get evidence about that roadside shooting

409
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: admitted in testimony.

410
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: Yet now Murdogg is on the precipice, the verge of

411
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: a new trial. To you, Pepper, what would that mean

412
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: if he got a new trial?

413
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: We start all anew It never happened. None of the

414
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: testimony that has been placed under oath can never be

415
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: read into the record. Again, we start as if we

416
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 3: were way back in Jane, wary of last year, picking

417
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 3: a brain new jury, sending new summons out the question

418
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: will become can he get a fair and impartial trial

419
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 3: in Hampton County? Can he get it anywhere in the

420
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 3: state of South Carolina. At this point, if we get

421
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 3: a new trial by the Supreme Court, we've got a

422
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 3: lot of homework to do. Where is the venue going

423
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 3: to be, who are the how big is the jury

424
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 3: pool going to be? But they're going to have to

425
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: put up the same exact witnesses. And now Murdoch's lawyers

426
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: are going to have the Procetitut's playbook, They're going to

427
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 3: have seen all their cards. This is a very interesting twist.

428
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: It could very well not only grant him a new trial,

429
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 3: but render the opposite verdict this time.

430
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: Now there's the issue of an unauthorized photo taken of

431
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: Murnaud in the holding sale listen.

432
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 7: Currently facing of ethics violations during her time as the

433
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 7: Clerk of Court, Hill has been been accused of arranging

434
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 7: a photo to be taken of Alex Murda when he

435
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 7: was being held in a holding cell. The State Ethics

436
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 7: Commission filed two complaints against to Becky for a total

437
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 7: of seventy six ethics five violations.

438
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 11: The complaint against Hill has two counts, one that she

439
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 11: provided an individual with confidential information the photo of an

440
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 11: inmate in the Collegeen County Courthouse holding celle to promote

441
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 11: the sale of a book count two states. Hill filmed

442
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 11: a promotional segment with the Walterborough Chamber of Commerce president

443
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 11: or her book in her office at the Collegden County Courthouse.

444
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Jennifer Hill Fitz News. How does a photo of Alex

445
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: and Murdog in a holding sale and a promo she

446
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: shoots with the Chamber of Commerce, What does that have

447
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: to do with Murdoch getting a new trial? I don't

448
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: care about that.

449
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 4: It goes straight to Becky Hill's credibility. So we keep

450
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 4: talking about how Murdoch is incredible because he lies over

451
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: and over again. But now we're looking at a seventy

452
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 4: six count ethics and ethics complaint that is being heard

453
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 4: by the Ethics Commission in December, and a lot of

454
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: those those ethics complaints have been referred to for criminal investigation.

455
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 4: So it you know, it's going to be very interesting

456
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: to see how that plays out. You know, Becky Hill

457
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 4: used that photo to promote her book, the photo of

458
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 4: Alex in his holding cell, and that came up in

459
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: the ethics complaint. Hill says that Gary Hale, one of

460
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 4: her employees, actually took the photo.

461
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: So it is.

462
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 4: It's they're all interesting and they all go to Becky

463
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: Hill's credibility.

464
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

465
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 12: Did you see a part.

466
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: Of the book?

467
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: I did plagiariyce, mister har it is and for that

468
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: I'm very sorry and I have apologized.

469
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 12: And that makes it okay.

470
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: What I did, I did, and I apologized for that.

471
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 12: And part of the book is you say literary license exaggeration.

472
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it exaggeration. Okay. You're hearing in COURTTHRK

473
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: Becky Hill under cross examination by Murdog's defense. So we've

474
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: got her admitting that she plagiarized in part of her book.

475
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: The book was immediately taken off the stand. But how

476
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: does that equal a new trial? And by the way,

477
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: that sound was from our friends at w l t X.

478
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: So let's compare that to testimony from Alex Murdog.

479
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 13: Listen a lot of Danny Henderson, I did light of Daddy, Julia,

480
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 13: Jenny Seconder, Yes, I did, Julio, and that Griswold I did.

481
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 13: July to Michael Gunn.

482
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 14: I'm sure I did at some point, but Michael wasn't

483
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 14: involved in any of this, so I don't know that

484
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 14: any of this ever came up with michaelj.

485
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 13: A lot of your clients use a lot of Pamela Pagney.

486
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 13: I did Natasha Thomas.

487
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 14: I don't know that I'd dealt with Natasha, but I

488
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 14: certainly lied about that.

489
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: A lot of the people he lied too, or his clients,

490
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: some of them even disabled getting big money settlements for

491
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: them and stealing it. You're hearing sound from the triump

492
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: from our friends at w l t X. But this pattern,

493
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: and you will recall this, doctor Michelle Dupree, seemingly goes

494
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: back at least to the death of teen girl Mallory Beach.

495
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: In that case, his son was on his Murdoch's boat

496
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: drinking to excess. Photos have emerged of that evening on

497
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: the boat. I went out on the water and saw

498
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: where Mallory Beach's body was flown through the air with

499
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: Murdoch's son speeding drunk at the helm. And this is

500
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: what we know. We know, Doctor Dupree, that witnesses state

501
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: that immediately after the boat crash caused by Murdoch's son

502
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: Murdoch goes to the hospital and tries to tries to

503
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: get the teens to change their story and not speak

504
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: to police. So that starts at the time of the

505
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: Mallory Beach death, the pattern of lying and subterfuge to

506
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: get what you want. Do you remember the death of

507
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: Mallory Beach, doctor Dupree?

508
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 8: Absolutely, Nancy, another tragic accident that should not have happened.

509
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: WHOA did you call that an accident where you're drunk

510
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: out of your skull and everybody's begging you to get

511
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: from behind the wheel, but you laugh maniacally and keep

512
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: driving until you hit cement pilings under an overpass and

513
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: Mallory goes flying through the air to her death. She's

514
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: fished out of the water about three days later, bloated,

515
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: bloated in purple. That's not an accident with every drink

516
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: that was intentional. That's a crash.

517
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 8: You're absolutely right. I think that should be last fight

518
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 8: as a homicide. Unfortunately it usually isn't.

519
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: But no, you're right.

520
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, Alex said everything he could, no

521
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 8: matter what it costs, no matter what it took, he

522
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 8: would lie his way out of things. And he has

523
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 8: a pattern of doing that since basically the beginning of time.

524
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 8: That is how he has lived his life, and it

525
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 8: just came to fruition. It came to light with the

526
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 8: Mallory Beach crash, and then it went down on hell

527
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 8: from there.

528
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: Now another person is probably doing the backflip over the possibility,

529
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: the very strong possibility of any trial for Murdock is

530
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Creighton Waters now here he is trying to rehabilitate

531
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: Becky Hill on the stand.

532
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 3: At any time, did you.

533
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 6: Interact with any juror in an attempt to influence their.

534
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 13: View of the facts in the state of the Murdock case.

535
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: No, all right, now I want to ask.

536
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 6: You some specifics about that and some allegation that have

537
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 6: been raised. At any time, did you tell the jury

538
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 6: not to be fooled by evidence.

539
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 3: Presented by mister Murdock's attorneys, I did not.

540
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 6: At any time, did you instruct the jury to watch

541
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 6: him closely and look.

542
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: At his actions?

543
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: I did not.

544
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 3: At any time, did.

545
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 9: You instruct the jury or tell the jury.

546
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: To look at his movements?

547
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 6: At any time as the jury moved to deliberate, did

548
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 6: you tell the jury this shouldn't take long.

549
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: That from our friends at w lt X. The problem

550
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 1: is this Mark Pepper, a high profile lawyer with the

551
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: Pepper firm. I may not well, I don't believe anything

552
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch says, and I did not observe any inappropriate

553
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: behavior on the part of Baker Hill when I was

554
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: there every day at the trial. But the law is

555
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: that if the appellate Court is not a try or

556
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: of fact, they've got to make their decision based on

557
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: the transcripts and the evidence given to them, and if

558
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: it looks like to them that Becky Hill had any

559
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: impact on even one gr R man, we're looking at

560
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: a new trial.

561
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,479
Speaker 3: That's correct, that's the test. We can talk about who's

562
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: a liar and who's not. All we want at the

563
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 3: end of the day, either Becky Hill is lying to

564
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: ar answer to create Waters or these jurors whom he

565
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: was reading their written affidavits to Becky and they're lying.

566
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 3: And our law is clear. If there's an outside force,

567
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: especially an elected official who you spend hours and hours with,

568
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: that has influenced your vote, then as a matter of law,

569
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 3: you did not get a fair and impartial verdict rendered

570
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: against you, and you are entitled to a new trial.

571
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: That is the law of our state. That is the

572
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: law of the United States.

573
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: Let me give you an example.

574
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 12: You indicate riding back from Mozelle that you and three

575
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 12: other people were in a car and you all decided Adam,

576
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 12: I think was the word you use, that he was guilty,

577
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 12: that he had killed his wife and son. Is that

578
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 12: what you put in the book?

579
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 4: I can't remember if I put that in the book,

580
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 4: but if you say I did, then I.

581
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 9: Will figure that happened.

582
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: We did have a conversation about what each of us.

583
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 12: Thought, and the all four agreed that he was guilty correctly,

584
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 12: and none.

585
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: Of us were jurors.

586
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 12: No trust me, I know that. But you had an

587
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 12: abiding conviction at least by the time of the Mozelle visit,

588
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 12: that he was guilty.

589
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: That's for our friends at w lt X. Thank you

590
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: lt X. Doesn't matter what Baker Hill thought or believed.

591
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: What matters is what the jury believed and did she

592
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: affect their decision? For the appellate court, what matters is

593
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: is there an appearance of impropriety? Does it look like

594
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: she may have affected their decision? And if so, Alex

595
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: Murdock could be headed to a new trial and it

596
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the first time there maybe jury tampering, whether

597
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: wittingly or unwittingly. Think John Gottie, the mob boss, Remember Gotti,

598
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: jury tampering, Haffa, Jimmy Hoffa, same thing, jury tampering. We're

599
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: still looking for his body. By the way, you know,

600
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna joining me, Director Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective.

601
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: How sick does it make you to think of Paul

602
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: and Maggie dad shot the way they were, no mercy,

603
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: all the hard work put into that case. You remember

604
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: that trial, we lived through it together, and now a reversal.

605
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean again, I go back to you know,

606
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 9: there's a huge difference of just you know, allegations of

607
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 9: state funds and using facilities as you know, ethics violations,

608
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 9: et cetera for you know, the clerk of the court.

609
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 9: But from an investigative aspect, I mean, just that one

610
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 9: nine to one one call from the shot earlier, you know,

611
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 9: just that alone was gold for an investigator. I mean,

612
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 9: first of all, he says, they shot me, Well, who's they?

613
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: You know?

614
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 9: And I think those are the kind of smoke and

615
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 9: mirrors that are taking place by the defense. And you've

616
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 9: got to give them credit. They're doing their job. But

617
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 9: at the same time, it is very frustrating to see

618
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 9: that they skip the appellate process and the Supreme Court

619
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 9: in South Carolina picks it up right away. But why

620
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 9: do they do that Because they shifted the law on

621
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 9: a federal cage and they applied that, you know, to

622
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 9: the to the motion. So yeah, it is frustrating, Nancy.

623
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 9: And you know, I hope the victims get justice here.

624
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: But wouldn't you agree, Chris mcdonna, wouldn't you agree even

625
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: knowing the blood, sweat and tears that Ellie Law Enforcement

626
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: put into making this case that no matter what we

627
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: think of Alex Murdoch and no matter what he did,

628
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: the law is the law, and the law must prevail,

629
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: whether you and I like it or not, we serve

630
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: the law. Do you agree with.

631
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 9: That one hundred percent? Nancy? And that's that's why we

632
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 9: always investigate information and not the person. And you know,

633
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 9: let's hope that the right information goes to that court as.

634
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: It stands right now, I don't see a way around it.

635
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: We'll see as just as unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off,

636
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,