WEBVTT - Scream: Everything You Didn't Know 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:08.520 Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.200 Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:15.840 that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.200 facts and figures behind your favorite TV shows, movies, music, 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.759 and more. We are your two disturbingly obsessed divas of 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.680 data dissemination. I'm Alex Heigel. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.720 And I'm Jordan Ron Talk. Hello, Heigel. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:29.480 I was just about to say, like, do you want 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:30.400 did you want me to do? 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.880 Like what's your favorite podcast? That's good, that's real good. 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.639 It's not, it's not. It's not one of my disagree 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.600 he's I mean no, because, as we'll cover later, that 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.479 man is weird. Yeah, and I don't think I have 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:50.440 the depth of grossness in my soul to adequately capture him. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.040 Maybe I do, Maybe I do. Let's not sell myself short. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.760 Once again, we put the proverbial car before the horse, 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.800 because Jordan, late though we may be, we are finishing 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.720 out Spooky Month at TMI. It's kind of an educase, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.560 right because we can get it in under like Day 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:04.880 of the. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.120 Dead, yeah, or like Daylight Savings time, and everything gets 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.600 darker and sad. Sure, spooky, it's a different kind of spooky. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:14.679 Yeah, that's an inside spooky. 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.240 That's a heart spooky, it's a spooky mind. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.040 Yeah, we're finishing out Spooky Month at TMI with an 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.440 all time classic that revitalized the slasher genre and its 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:30.160 director's semi morribond career launched a thousand at least probably 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.320 a million at this point film school lectures on metatextualism 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.200 and coined an annoying new voice for people to imitate. 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.160 Present Company included that's right, we were talking about nineteen ninety. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.640 Six is scream God. Yes. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:45.480 I was first made away of this film by the 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.240 trailers and like movie standees everywhere, like this is one 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.000 of the first movies that I distinctly remember being in 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.440 theaters and being like, what's that? And then it wasn't 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.880 until because this movie came out December of ninety six, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:03.080 it wasn't until ninety seven that I saw hordes of 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.360 ghost faces of all sizes and shapes trick or treating. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.200 So this was just like one of those movies that 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.000 I was like, I think too scared for maybe a 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:13.480 little bit. 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:14.160 Really. 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.760 Yeah, I didn't really get into like properly watching whrror 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.519 until like middle school, or at least like seeking it out, 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.240 which otherwise foisted on me in a few different opportunities, 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.880 as I think we covered extensively here the kid down 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:29.920 the street with the Michael Myers obsession and my dad 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:30.880 showing me Alien. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:32.679 Yeah, that'll do it, brother. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.520 Yeah. So yeah, I think I got to this at 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.880 like eleven or twelve, and it got me, got me 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:40.560 real good. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:41.160 As it should have. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.200 I mean it is rooted in like the who Done It? 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.840 You know, so as that wonderful row of like hitchcocky 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:53.639 in or almost noir like subterfuge and suspicion of everyone. 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.560 I think that's why I like it. It feels less 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.919 horror to me and more in like the Hitchcock realm. 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.760 Like Psycho doesn't feel like horrid to me either. Yeah, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.000 and that's probably why exactly because I don't do Gore 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.200 and I don't do like monsters and things like that. 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:08.359 But yeah, this I really. 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:09.920 Except for when I made you watch The Thing and 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:11.640 you were like that dog just exploded. 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.920 Oh I love the Thing though. That was another one. 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:14.400 It's another one. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.720 It's a suspicion of everyone. Yeah, yeah, so good people, 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.000 Good that you love the s tier of horror films 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:23.639 at least. 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.000 Assessing Scream looking at it through like twenty twenty four 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:32.560 eyes is frankly difficult because Meta is now just one 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.880 of the giant tech companies that's slowly poisoning all of 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.800 our brands. And also, like the Kevin Williamson and I 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.440 will lump Joss Whedon into him, the Kevin Williamson Joss 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:47.040 Whedon like school of dialogue became such a defacto tone 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.680 for cinema, and it got extra legs out of it 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.120 because Joss Whedon did The Avengers. So not only did 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.320 we have like a solid ten year span where Dawson's 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:03.880 Creek and Scream or like Kevin Williamson's dialogue was everywhere, 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.120 it was this sort of met textual hyper quippi, you know, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.720 teens who have every single pop culture reference of a 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:15.600 much older man at their fingertips. And then in twenty twelve, 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:17.640 Just Whedon did The Avengers, so all of a sudden, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.040 everybody had to be like all. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.039 The superheroes had to talk about other superheroes. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.359 Yeah, or just being like not fourth wall breaking, or 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.839 at least like winking at the fourth wall, like you know, 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.039 the classic joke on film Twitter is like when someone 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.279 like rolls their eyes and goes, He's right behind me, 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.920 isn't he? And then like you know, like like that, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.479 so the movie had a long tail. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.440 Oh my question for you, how much do youah that 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.120 Tarantino had to do with that kind of medica? I mean, 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.760 I guess that's they weren't really discussing movies. They were 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.080 more discussing pop cultural points. 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.919 I mean, inasmuch as Quentin Tarantino had an influence on 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.520 everything from the mid nineties to the mid two thousands, 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.400 you know, and still but like yeah, I mean, I'm 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.000 sure anyone who is a struggling filmmaker in the early 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.240 nineties saw Reservoir Dogs and then pulp fiction and was like, 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.760 oh and especially for this movie, I think because as 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.240 we're getting into later, Quentin Tarantina was like mier Max's 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.480 golden boy and literally the only person that the Weinsteins 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.120 would not work with. So I'm sure some of the 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:26.120 notes were like dial this into the Quentin territory, Quentin territory. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.720 But so yeah, it's really hard to remember what had 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:33.480 bomb this was into the horror psyche, not financially, but 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.360 just like it just rewrote I mean, not only did 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:41.200 it rewrite the rules as it openly discussed them. But look, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.640 you know the rules. Yeah it but it also just 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.120 like revolutionized that. I can't think of another horror film 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.560 that changed the way people like discussed the grammar of 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.640 horror as a genre, because every other one had just 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.120 been kind of an iteration on a mold. And A 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.840 great read for this is also the book Men, Women 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:05.240 and Chainsaws, which is incredible, an all time title, and 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.640 it is like an actual scholarly work done by I 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.560 think a woman at you See Berkeley, Carol J. Clover. Yeah, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.680 this was written in nineteen ninety two and it's the 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.760 book that coined the term final. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.000 Girl for starters, oh seriously. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:22.520 Yeah, and sort of laid down a lot of the 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.120 rules that people are talking about with this, like Slasher's 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.640 never use a gun. Slasher's always used not like it's 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.920 always like a phallic extension or was one of her 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:35.000 big things. So there's a lot of like that book has. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.080 It's dense because it's like you see Berkeley, I don't 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:39.679 know if it's I think it was printed through Princeton, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:43.040 but it's like postgrad level of writing. So it's dense, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.640 but it does like lay out a lot of the 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.599 track work for this movie's exploration. Anyway, I've talked about 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.440 for long enough? Do you what do you think about 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:51.040 Scream Jordan? 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.279 It's so good. It's just so good. I don't have 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.600 anything smart to say about it. I mean just the 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:57.600 opening alone. 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.960 Oh yeah, yeah, is his Yeah. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.440 I would cement it in, you know, in the pantheon 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.200 of incredible scary movies. 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:06.279 I am mad that I didn't get to see this 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.960 in theaters because I cannot imagine what it would have 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.320 been like in a pre internet, pre phone, pre spoiler era. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.640 When you walk in there and you see one of 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.760 America's sweethearts, Drew Barrymore, who is then summarily terrified and 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.080 grossly murdered. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:22.880 Just what do you want? I want to see what 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.520 your insides look like? God, this is what this movie 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.120 did for phones, what Psycho did for showers. I have 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.400 to say I heard the phone to this day. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.400 I mean, I'll put the I'll put the I'll put 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:34.880 a note in that I had at the end, but 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.800 the use of color I d jumped up three hundred 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.200 after this movie was filmed. It did this movie? Is? 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.240 Is this what inspired you to like bone up on 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.520 scary movie trivia in case you got a phone call 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.520 and somebody was like, you know, riddle me. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.480 This, or else your girlfriend died. Well I didn't have 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.200 a girlfriend, so there's no worrying about that. But that's good. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.480 Or else your fretless bass happened, neck chat. I don't 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.440 know you at age fifteen. Yeah, no, I would have. 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.520 I would have lost a valuable time obsessing over Bay 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:13.240 Area punk, Scott punk if you will. Yeah, I don't know. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.880 It's what would it have been like to see in 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.840 real time? We cannot We literally can't know. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.120 Yeah, I know. Did you ever notice? In the opening? 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.240 And maybe this is just me reading too much into it. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.720 The music is like a weird mix of the psycho 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.760 theme and the et theme, and it has like the 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.719 the like staccato string hits, but also there's like a 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.880 little dude in the background. 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.160 It's really interesting. I mean, as as we'll get to. 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.280 The composer had like never seen a horror movie, so 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.600 he was unbound by the various conventions of unshackled by 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:47.880 the conventions of the genre. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.400 I love a misanthropic. This entire movie is I mean, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.520 there are so many great one liners. She used to 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.800 sit next to me in English class. Not anymore. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.720 Yeah, it walks such a great line of it's the 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.600 it's in the Heather's mold, but it's not. It doesn't 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.200 push it quite so far, and it really does walk 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.440 that wonderful line of like these are all quasi unlikable 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.360 characters to various degrees, excepting maybe sweet Jamie Kennedy and 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:19.679 you know Nev campbell Is is like whiny but understandably. 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.359 So I'm sorry if my traumatized life is an inconvenience 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.160 to you in your perfect existence. Yes, I'm the one 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.760 who's been self absorbed with all this post traumatic stress. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.600 This it's so funny. I mean it almost seems like 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:36.640 it like prefigures the like over use of like oh 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.760 I'm so traumatized, Like yeah, it's funny. How early that seems. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.640 Yeah, yeah, And like I like, like I was saying, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.280 it's like it does walk this line of having everyone 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.520 be like in these quasi unlikable archetypes of like you know, 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.199 the hot slut, the dirt bag boyfriend, and yet they're 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.400 still so magnetic by part of it's just being young 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.640 and hot. But it's like I don't find it that though, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.720 no walk that back, cut that out. I don't want 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.600 people coming to me for Nev Campbell. She's as sweet, 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.679 although I am pissed at her about the reboots, which 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.959 we will get to. Okay, well, Jordan, from the roots 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.560 of this film, from the pen of a failed actor 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.880 and a Barbara Walter special, to the violence that the 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.840 Weinsteins inflicted on the production process, to the absolute revolution 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.120 it's spurred in its genre. Here is everything you didn't 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:35.480 know about Scream. The story of Screen begins with a 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.320 man named Kevin Williamson, the aforementioned failed actor. After graduating 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.359 from college in North Carolina, Like so many idealistic dumbasses 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.880 before him, a young Williamson moved to New York to 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.200 pursue an acting career. This didn't go very well on 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.360 either coast. He got a small part in the soap 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.079 opera Another World in nineteen ninety, then moved to la 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.440 in nineteen ninety one, picked up small roles in things 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.760 like in Living Color music videos and films like nineteen 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.160 ninety four is Dirty Money and the previous Year's Hot Ticket, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:07.200 a film which concerns two kidnapped strippers who must perform 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.520 erotic routines for their captors after their plane crashes near 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:11.520 a mountain hideaway. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:12.680 That concerns me too. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.920 It was well hitting this all time low and taking 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.079 screenwriting classes at UCLA. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.440 Can't confirm taking screenwriting classes is an all time low. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.679 That Williamson had his first success in Hollywood. He'd written 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.280 a script called Killing Missus Tingle, which was later retitled 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.120 Teaching Missus Tingle, that was picked up in nineteen ninety 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.120 five and then sat in development hell until after the 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.600 successive Scream. Missus Tingle was based on a teacher of 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.200 Williamson's in high school who repeatedly told him he had 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.839 no hope of ever becoming a writer. Once she interrupted 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:44.800 him while he was reading a short story aloud to 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.640 the class, saying, you have a voice that shouldn't be 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.000 heard and that's disgusting and sit down. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.080 Did I ever tell you about my last day in 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.720 screenwriting school? No, it's literally the last time I set 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.400 foot in the screenwriting apartment floor of NYU for what 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.440 they called was a crypt panel where you had your 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:09.160 final project, your thesis project evaluated. And I had a 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.400 habit of being overly wordy as it were, which I've 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.720 then parlayed into speaking about Bewitched in the Brady Bunch 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.199 for hours at a clip on podcasts, so it ended 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.439 up working out for me. But so there's dialogue in scripts, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.640 and then there's what's called across the page, which is 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.959 like description and of scenes and stuff like that. And 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.160 one of the educators on my panel just took my 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:35.120 script and like closed their eyes and flipped through it 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.040 and then just opened that a page at random and 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.880 put their finger down and hit a big old block 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.679 of text and read it out in this like flowery 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.800 voice and was like, now, that's beautiful, but that has 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.960 absolutely no business in a screenplay. Have you ever just 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.040 considered becoming a novelist? And that was my exit interview 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.000 from U Screenwriting was, let me just do a thing 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.000 that we didn't just spend the last four years too 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.800 China do and you kind of just came to it naturally. 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.520 And I haven't completed a screenplay since. Actually that's not 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:03.880 trure I have. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.439 I mean, you wouldn't make an excellent novelist. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:11.280 He's dead now, though I won that one. I didn't 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:11.559 do it. 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.720 Yes I did, ultimately, and not really the point here, 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.119 but Williams had made a deal with one of Hollywood's 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.480 literal devils to get this beloved script off the ground. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.560 He was a hot name in horror after Scream and Mirror. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.920 Max was then attempting its unteenth at bat at the 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.200 Halloween franchise, casting about for a writer for what would 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.600 eventually become Halloween H two oh. Williamson told Ain't It 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.640 Cool News in nineteen ninety seven Love citing them that 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.800 he wrote a treatment for H two oh as a 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.600 favor to Bob Weinstein. It was a little trade off. 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.080 He'd let me direct Killing Missus Tingle if I wrote 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.120 the Halloween treatment. My first script was at another studio, 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.360 and I told Bob, if you can get that movie 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:56.040 for me to direct, I'll bear your children phrasing Yeah 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.040 that am Kevin. That didn't age well. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.600 No. As part of this deal, the film was eventually 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.880 released as Teaching Missus Tingle for two reasons. One, the 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.600 column by massacre happened in April nineteen ninety nine, and 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.640 anything conflating killing in the schools became an instant no go. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.600 And two, there was the nineteen seventy eight thriller by 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.760 author Lois Duncan that had a suspiciously similar plot called 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.320 killing Mister Griffin, and Duncan's camp prompt legal action when 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.760 they were made aware. Williamson told the Happy Horror Time 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.040 podcast in twenty twenty three, they stopped everything in its tracks, 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:28.760 and they went through the book, and they went through 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.000 the script. Williamson maintained that his script was based on 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.680 his aforementioned evil teacher and a real, incredibly mundane incident 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.280 from his high school years where he and some pals 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.000 were cut drinking in an attic above the school gym 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:48.560 like idiots. No, no, not on the premises, literally in 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.320 the attic. Yeah, the school. What kind of gym as 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.320 an addic? I've never I now, I'm like thinking, fact, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.120 they could buy high school gym of an attic? And 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.840 if so, what kind of horrifying things are out there? 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:00.880 What was in there? 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:02.200 What did I miss out on? 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.080 Yeah? I mean kind of anyway, this would have scotched 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.200 their entire graduation. So he and his palace contemplated driving 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.800 to the teacher's house presumably the teacher that caught them 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.920 and quote bagging her and saying like, please please don't 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.600 do this to us. You're gonna ruin it. We're not 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.880 going to be able to graduate. Please don't do that now, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.520 he says, bagging her. I mean I assume it means 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.280 like like literally in a sad head. Yeah all right. 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.200 I no word on whether or not he actually did that, 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.360 but you're right, teaching missus Tingle isn't very good. I 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.240 remember really liking it when while I was watching with 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.800 my older cousins, like soon after it came out. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.440 Fine, Katie Holmes, you think she's good and things. 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:46.160 It's good than that. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:50.800 She's she's a sweet lady. 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.480 I look her as like a slightly evil student. She 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.280 kind of plays that that role in in Wonder Boys 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.240 with Michael Douglas. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.000 Oh you would like wonder Boy. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.320 I love wonder Boys. Yeah, it's about a stressed out writer. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:04.400 We can't finish anything. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.440 Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean I think Helen 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.280 Mirren was like someone was like, why did you do 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.080 that movie? And she gave the classic like Michael Kaine 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.800 answered and she said something because they gave me a 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:19.840 big check pay for my mother's hospice. Yeah, So I 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.160 don't know. It's it's it's fine, it's quirky. He's not 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.560 a director, and has he done anything since he's about 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:27.400 to do the next one. 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.360 There's going to be a teaching missus Tingleer. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.080 Oh sorry, there's gonna be a seven cream for seven. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.080 A seven cream for the new reboots. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.840 They've just been calling them. They're they're ostensibly they're Scream five, 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.760 six and seven, but they've been working the Roman numerals 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:46.800 into the title or like typographically, so it didn't it's not. 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.080 For a while everyone was hoping it was going to 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:54.680 be five cream and then scrimmix because of the Roman. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.440 Like the you know, it's the cream, the cream, it's 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.960 it's the vit from the makers of the Vivich comes. Yeah, 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:05.560 that's dumb. I hate that. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:06.520 Yeah, it is. 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.760 It is. It's like too fast to scream. 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:11.040 Well, you know the funny thing about it? 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:11.240 Have you? 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:12.800 I told you what the funny thing about the Fast 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.000 the Furious franchises, it was something like copyrights, right, Roger 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.800 Corman owes the title fast and Fast and Furious or did, 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.760 and so subsequently every time they had a new Fast 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.439 and Furious movie, rather than paying him again, they just 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.040 iterated a new form of it, and it's too fast, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.080 too furious, fast five fast X the Fast and the 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.360 Furious or no Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.440 Well, I thought Tokyo Drift was flying fast and furious 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:40.160 Tokyo Drift. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:41.240 I think, I don't know. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.600 They skirted it with drifting, so the oldest trick in 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:45.960 the book. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:48.119 They drifted right past. 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.600 A one hundred year old Roger Coran on his death 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.600 bed earlier this year, still cursing the producers fast the 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.320 Furious franchise. 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.520 Roger, One last question? Do you want to let them 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.440 have it? No rose food? 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.159 This is an episode for the nerds. This is our 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.879 usually we're in for the music nerds. This is for 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.520 the film nerds. This is gonna good way. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.159 Where do I get into focus? Pulling you people? Have 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:16.359 no idea? What's in store for you? 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:24.200 Dutch angles, zipzabs hop. We're having gone to film school. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.399 I know surprisingly little about like the technical terms for 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.240 any of like the film composition. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:34.240 I think zipzabzop is a drama game. Yeah yeah, yes, 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:37.160 and a right go ahead? 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:43.080 Oh it's me still who's literally whose lines it? Anyway? 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.560 Though we'd sold his first script teaching Missus Tingle, Williamson 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.080 told The Hollywood Reporter that quote, I was still struggling 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.199 a lot and eating my oodles of noodles. He was 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.000 house sitting in Palm Springs when he watched the March ninth, 0:18:56.040 --> 0:19:00.840 nineteen ninety four episode of Turning Point focusing on Daniel Rolling, 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.480 known as the Gainesville Ripper, who murdered five college students 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.240 in Florida over four days in August nineteen ninety Williamson 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.200 told CNN in nineteen ninety eight, during the commercial break, 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.200 I heard a noise and I had to go search 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.199 the house. And I went into the living room and 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.320 the window was open. And I've been in the house 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.560 for two days. I'd never noticed a window open. So 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.040 I got really scared. So I went to the kitchen, 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.200 got a butcher knife, got the mobile phone. I called 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.240 a buddy of mine. That buddy, David Blanchard, was in 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.800 Hot ticket with Williamson and told CNN Kevin was looking 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.120 under the beds. He was going out to the garage 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.840 and looking in the garage and I'm like, don't go outside. 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.480 If you go outside, You're gonna go outside and the 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.639 killer will sneak in the door while you're outside. And 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.119 Williamson was like, what do you mean, what do you 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:46.840 mean the killer. It's like Seinfeld meets serial killers. Yeah, 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.040 the Paris conversation drifted to the iconic slasher stars of 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.040 their youth, but Williamson told CNN, I went to bed 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.840 that night so spooked. I was having nightmares, and I 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:57.600 woke up at like three or four in the morning, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.440 and I started writing the opening scene to scream. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.520 Dude, how funny does this movie? If you just read 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.040 it in the side Feld voice, I'm sorry if my 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.359 dramatic life is an inconvenience for you. So you have 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.360 a few animacy issues. So there was all of your 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:11.240 mothers on timely that. 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.359 Jerry, Jerry, It's all a movie. It's all one great 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.760 big movie. Only you can't pick your genre. No, that 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.360 was I could have done a better Cramer. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.040 I don't care. I'm not a Sidefeld guy. But it 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:26.680 is funny. 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.080 But you do play the bass. 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.520 That would have been a great soundtrack addition to this, 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.000 Like they fade out the nick cave and it's just 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.800 like the obnoxious keyboard synth slab bass. 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.399 Forgot how good the soundtrack is this? 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.560 Yeah, horror movies weren't a big slump back then. Kevin 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.120 Williamson told The Ringer, they have an amazing oral history 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.320 of this as does Hollywood Reporter that will be sighting 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:50.800 the slasher films of the late seventies and eighties had 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.080 sort of petered out. No one was really making great 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.560 horror films. Well, the second part of that sentence, he 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.800 is stupid. Williamson was correct that most of the major 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.400 slasher franchises were in Faulo periods at this point. I mean, dude, 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.880 Candyman came out like, uh, it's one of the that's 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.720 another str horror movie, you dumb idiot. You couldn't touch 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.520 Candy Man. Kevin Williamson, you hack, you put I hate that. 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.160 I hate that, And no good horror movies. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:21.600 That come out. You have no good horror movie ideas. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.240 Uh. He was right about the first part, though. Michael 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.800 Myers had been off screen since nineteen eighty nine after 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.200 the wildly mismanaged fifth installment in his franchise, Jason Vorhes 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.440 was literally dragged to hell by Freddy Krueger in nineteen 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.560 ninety two. Is Jason Goes to Hell the Final Friday? 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:39.560 Did you know that, Jordan? 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:40.280 No? I did not. 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.320 Yeah. At one point Newline had the rights to Jason, 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.480 Evil Dead and Freddy, and they were planning for Jason 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:53.399 versus Freddy versus Ash three way crossover, and it fell apart, 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:55.159 and then all we eventually got out of it was 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.560 Freddy Versus Jason, which is a fun movie. But prior 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.000 to that, Freddy's Last Bow had been in the year prior, 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.160 in ninet ninety one in Freddy's Dead The Final Nightmare. 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.199 The nineteen ninety the third movie in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.560 would set a record as the lowest grossing film in 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.440 the franchise until the next one in nineteen ninety five. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:15.639 The point is that while there were a lot of 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.200 excellent films being made around this time, like the aforementioned 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:20.320 in nineteen ninety twos Candy Man, it was easy to 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.480 feel like the slasher genre had quick voice led out. 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:27.040 So Williams had set to writing the kind of horror 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.480 slasher that he'd want to see. I thought, if a 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:31.720 killer was actually using the cliche of a horror film, 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.600 perhaps that would spin them around, he told Entertainment Weekly. 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:37.040 I thought, if you could just expose the rules and 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.000 play with them, then the audience doesn't know what they're 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.640 going to get. Suddenly they're on edge. I started playing 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.200 with the tropes Williamson didn't even have a full length 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:45.920 feature in mind when he started writing in the middle 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.040 of the night. What people don't know is that the 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:50.800 opening I wrote it as a one act play. That's 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.679 great Comic book dot Com in twenty twenty one. It 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.000 was just a young character on the phone talking to us, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.040 but it could be a killer outside that morphed into 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.840 the opening scene into Williamson worked quickly and banged out 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.600 the rest of the script in three days, ultimately titling 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.880 it hilariously What would follow Scary movie every time? 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:13.160 About my friends when I play no I just saw recently. 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:16.879 My friend is an incredible actor. She's and she leans 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.840 more towards like the horror movie genre kind of things. 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.800 I mean, she's kind of your classic scream queen basically. 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.800 And she was followed home to her apartment one night, 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:28.840 and this guy attacked her in the lobby of her 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.920 her apartment and like fractured her skull. It really beat 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.040 her badly, and apparently this guy had been like stalking 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:37.359 her for weeks and she had no idea and it 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.720 was really really really horrific. I mean, she had she 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.840 had to move and kept changing places where she was 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:45.639 living for you know, every couple of weeks because she 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:49.080 was just so you know, just just traumatized by it 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.920 all and it took a year to physically recover and 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:53.639 she didn't work in that time. And one of the 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:57.040 first things she auditioned for was as a victim and 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:02.080 an SVU type show, and during the audition the casting 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.560 director said, I'm sorry, I think we're gonna go a 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:07.520 different direction. Your screams don't sound lived in. It was 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:12.120 the phrase. And so she wrote this incredible one act 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.920 play called pretty Good Not Bad that just It went 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:19.159 to the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh at the end of 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:23.880 the summer, which is just her at this audition. It's 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.800 just a monologue talking to you know, an unseen casting 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.919 director having given that that note, and it is it 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.160 is unbelievable. Ellen toldend, does her name, look her up, 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:35.720 check her out, let's cast her. If you're in a 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:38.600 position to say, she is absolutely amazing. It's an incredible 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:40.320 piece of work. I don't know when and where it's 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:43.120 being performed next, but it was really really stunning. 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:44.160 That's crazy. 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:45.920 Yeah, it was pretty It was really crazy. 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:46.919 I can't imagine doing that. 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:50.520 Yeah, no, I know. It was a really unbelievable way 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:55.160 to process something that I mean is not terribly dissimilar 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:58.840 to what we're discussing that went on in Scream, but 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:01.639 she made something incredible out of it. Super proud of 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.280 her anyway, Well, now we're gonna talk about the Weinstein's 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.600 after that. Jesus, I was hoping to be something a 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:11.760 little brighter. Christ Williamson sent a specscript around and it 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:16.000 pretty quickly attracted attention. A Dimension Films executive told the 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.080 Hollywood Reporter that he was given the script by a 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:22.399 Mirramax executive and was immediately hooked. Bob Weinstein told me 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:24.160 that I've ever read a script that blew me away. 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:26.480 Let him know immediately. So I called him at home 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:28.320 and said, I just read a script, and if you 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:29.960 don't want to make this, I don't know what you're 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.440 looking for. Producer Kathy Conrad added, we got into the 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:35.320 game on it fairly early, and we were used as 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:37.800 a stalking horse for several of the other places that 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.479 bid on, and afterwards we won and got the script. 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:41.679 What is a stalking horse? 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.479 I actually love that and also this woman, keep her 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:50.280 in mind, Kathy Conrad is incredible. Stalking horse is used 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.840 in either politics or bankruptcy or criminal investigation. 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:57.440 What a trifecta? What a riddled rich term. 0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:03.000 It's basically the idea of testing a concept on behalf 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:06.760 of a third party. For example, in politics, it's used 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:10.200 when like a sham candidate is put forward to hide 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:12.080 another more serious candidate. 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:13.879 Interesting. 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:17.000 Yeah, yeah, So I think the idea is that people 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:20.320 were waiting to see or hear what Dimension would bid 0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:23.159 on it in order to calculate their own bids. 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:27.760 Greatly, okay, Williamson recalled to the Ringer In twenty twenty one. 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:30.440 There were a lot of different companies bidding for it. 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:32.720 The price started going up. It being the script, the 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:35.600 price started going up. Oliver Stone's production company had a 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:38.560 discretionary fund and they were bidding on it. I got 0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:40.600 nervous because the price went up to a degree where 0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:42.880 one of the studios was like, Wow, we don't pay 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:44.880 this kind of money for a horror movie. We're out, 0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:49.280 And I went, okay, well this is over. Williamson ultimately 0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:51.520 wound up going with Dimension, who bought the script for 0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.080 four hundred thousand dollars in the summer of nineteen ninety five. 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:58.119 Medium Level. There was also a Vanity Fair article in 0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:00.399 two thousand and four that suggested Drew Bahrem read the 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:02.960 script and once she signed on Merrimax, Green led. 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:05.040 It, Yeah, that article is really interesting. It's all about 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:07.760 the Weinsteins and but it has a ton about screaming 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:11.439 it and as we'll get to the frankly unconscionable I 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:13.760 mean at a long list of their unconscionable acts, but 0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.679 the horrible way they treated Wes Craven so Dimension funnily 0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:20.800 enough immediately pitched it to its eventual director, Wes Craven, 0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:23.280 who turned it down. The studio then went to their 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.520 roster of directors connected to Dimension, like Robert Rodriguez and 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.600 Quentin Tarantino, before also talking to the likes of Sam Raimi, 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:32.919 Danny Boyle, who would have just been coming off Trainspotting 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:34.439 I believe, and George Rameiro. 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:36.040 Tarantino would have been interesting. 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:39.040 Yeah, I think he would have been doing at this point. 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:41.560 It would have been mired in either one of his 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.480 unrealized projects between pulp fiction and Jackie Brown or just 0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:49.960 Jackie Brown. And you know, he's a he's a I 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:51.360 don't think he would have wanted to do something. 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:53.760 Oliver Stone doing that. 0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:55.760 Would have been incredible because he would just he was 0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:57.040 just off natural ble one killers. 0:27:57.640 --> 0:27:59.480 Uh okay with you. I thought he was just. 0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:01.520 That's the thing about Hollywood, is they just they just 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:04.359 immediately go like, oh, that guy did something similar, Let's 0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:05.160 have him do it again. 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:07.320 I thought he was just off of doors, off the doors. 0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:11.080 That would have been hilarious. But the film seemed tailor 0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:14.920 made for Craven, who had taken a stab at reinventing 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:17.359 the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise with nineteen ninety four. 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:19.720 Is a New Nightmare. This was the first time he'd 0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:22.160 come back to the franchise since nineteen eighty seven. 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:23.920 Is it too late to hold for applause? 0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:26.000 No? 0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:29.879 Okay. 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:32.920 Craven signed a very naive early contract that essentially gave 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:35.440 away his rights for the Nightmare and Elm Street franchise 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:38.760 after the first one, so New Nightmare could seem as 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:41.840 a much more humorless dry run for Scream's entire self 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.520 aware meta approach to the genre. This is going to 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:49.360 get a little weird. Craven, Freddie, actor Robert England, and 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:53.480 the original film star Heather Langencamp all star as themselves 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:57.240 in a world which the Nightmare and Elm Street franchise 0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:01.480 is a real film franchise. We are all playing themselves 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:06.880 in a world like our own, until the lines between 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:10.640 fiction and reality are blurred because Heather begins to be 0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:14.760 stalked by a new indifferent guy who also just looks 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:18.120 exactly like Freddy Krueger. It doesn't really quite come off. 0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:21.959 It's very interesting and creative and like a bold effort, 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:25.160 but it gets a little mired. There's a scene in 0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:28.360 which it literally grinds to the halt in Wes Craven's 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:31.960 office so that he himself can deliver a speech about 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.719 maybe the stories that we tell are actually legends, and 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.640 maybe those legends are based in real things that can 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:43.520 surface again once we give them enough power. It's a 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:46.160 bold swing and it was become a real called hit, 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.840 but I don't think it did it particularly well in 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:49.200 the time. 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:52.040 It sounds like the horror equivalent of It's Gary Shanling show. 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.719 Yeah, I mean it really does prefigure like I mean, 0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:57.600 I don't want to say like Eric Andre that's like 0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:01.160 actually just it's deranged absurdism, but like it really for 0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:04.880 nineteen ninety four, like taking your established franchise and taking 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:07.680 that big of an intellectual philosophical swing at it is 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:11.000 really it was really something, and it really just gets 0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:13.680 at the heart of Wes Craven. He is one of 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:20.000 the most conflicting personalities who has contributed indelibly to the genre. 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:24.080 You cannot find a bad word about Wes Craven. He was, 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:28.760 by all accounts an incredibly gentle kind, intellectual guy. He 0:30:28.800 --> 0:30:31.320 studied English and psychology and undergrad and then got a 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.640 master's in philosophy and writing from Johns Hopkins, and he 0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:36.440 was teaching full time in New York when he bought 0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:39.520 a used sixteen millimeters camera and started making short films 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:42.800 From there. He basically leveled up through the film industry 0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:46.040 from sound editing and then under pseudonyms, he started working 0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:50.000 in porn. He supposedly worked on Deep Throat under a pseudonym, 0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:52.640 and it was actually through the porn industry that he 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:57.479 met Future Friday the Thirteenth creator producer Sean Cunningham, and 0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:00.320 he raised enough cash for his first feature, nineteen seventy 0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:02.840 two's Last House on the Left. Last House on the 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.880 Left is one of those appalling grindhouse classics that Rob 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:09.760 Zombie saw and made it. Half of his artistic vision, 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.000 the other half being Texas Chainsaw. It is so gross 0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:18.680 and so mean. It's ostensibly a homage to Ingmar Bergmann's 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:22.920 nineteen fifty nine Oscar winning film The Virgin Spring, Dragged 0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:26.880 through many layers of dirt. It's shot in seven days. 0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:30.720 It's like a it's like ostensibly it's I guess, putting 0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:33.080 it as bluntly as possible as a rape revenge film. 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:36.800 Yeah, I'm on the Wikipedia page, and there's a Wikipedia 0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:39.640 page for rape and revenge film as a genre, which 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:40.720 I am not familiar with. 0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:46.400 Yeah, yeah, straw Dogs I think is probably in there maybe. 0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:49.720 But Last House the Left was shot in a week, 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.080 and Craven deliberately pushed the boundaries of what he could 0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:56.000 get away with with violence on screen. And he did 0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:58.040 this as a way of reconciling what he felt was 0:31:58.040 --> 0:32:02.880 the unrealistic depiction of violence on screen. Henceforth or hence heretofore. 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:05.680 He did this purposely as a way of reconciling what 0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:10.240 he felt was the unrealistic depiction of film violence and 0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:12.760 the photos and film footage of the very real carnage 0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:15.600 of the Vietnam War that were trickling in Last House 0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:17.760 on the Left became a touchstone of the exploitation and 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:21.960 grindhouse genre and attracted all kinds of protests, censorship, and coverage, 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.479 and expanded beyond the limited rum regional releases that Craven 0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:28.760 had envisioned for. And it also has one of the 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:31.840 most famous horror taglines of all time. To avoid fainting, 0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:34.840 keep repeating, it's only a movie, It's only a movie. 0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:39.240 It's only a movie. Done in like fading down descending script. 0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:42.440 Classic was reused for like four other films in the decade, 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:44.959 but despite Last House in the Left's success, it grossed 0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:48.080 three million on a ninety thousand dollars budget, Craven had 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.760 trouble getting his other non horror films made and he 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:53.400 did not want to be pigeonholed as a horror guy. 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:55.440 He told Newsday in nineteen ninety four that he had 0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.320 written a comedy about the beauty pageants circuit and an 0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:02.840 ambitious biopic of Kerrent Anthony Herbert, the Inspector General of 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:05.720 the Army who is demoded for refusing to cover up 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:11.120 American atrocities in Vietnam, but under financial duress and also 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:13.200 informed by a friend of how cheap it was to 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.040 film in the Nevada Desert. Craven wrote and directed another 0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:18.960 cult classic, The Hills Have Eyes in nineteen seventy seven, 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:22.160 about an inbred cannibal family of feral killers hiding out 0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:25.880 in the irradiated Nevada Desert and preying on tourists. Though 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.000 ostensibly just another revenge film, Craven viewed The Hills Have 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.680 Eyes as a treatise on how, for quote unquote, normal 0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:35.600 people can be pushed into savage violence. By the end 0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:38.200 of the film, the mild mannered tourist is indistinguishable from 0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:40.600 the villain whose head he's crushing in with a rock 0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:44.240 while screaming. It's a hefty film. The remake is actually 0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:47.440 far crazier. It's a great remake as far as these 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:50.480 things go. But it has a lot going on, not 0:33:50.560 --> 0:33:53.080 just as like post nuclear kind of stuff, because the 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:56.680 implication is that, like, aside from inbreeding, these people were 0:33:56.720 --> 0:34:00.600 messed up by the bomb test deserts of America. So, 0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:03.560 as he'd feared, Craven became trapped in the in genre. 0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:06.440 Fair He made two more horror films before nineteen eighty 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:10.319 two's disastrous Swamp Thing adaptation, which is just a real 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:14.360 piece of and you have to understand how much I 0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:18.600 love swamp Thing as a character. God that movie sucks anyway. 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:21.080 His next film was A Night Merre at Elm Street 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:24.719 in nineteen eighty four, another film that literally turned the 0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:28.040 horror genre on its head. Ress Craven was a big reader. 0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:31.520 He read like newspapers voraciously and this was based Did 0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:33.200 you ever hear about what this was based on? 0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:33.560 No? 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:37.279 So, Wes had read several newspaper articles in the La 0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:41.280 Times about long refugees who had fled to the United 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:44.680 States because of war and genocide in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam. 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:49.400 They were having these horrible nightmares and were literally refusing 0:34:49.440 --> 0:34:52.000 to sleep, and some of these men ended up dying 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:56.840 in their sleep soon after. And this was actually called 0:34:56.880 --> 0:35:01.759 Asian death syndrome and affected people from ages nineteen to 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:05.120 fifty seven. Wes later said that there were all of 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:08.760 these articles and the paper never really dragged them together. 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.640 And then do you know what else? He was inspired by? 0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:17.520 No gem We've found no the Gary Wrights, see we. 0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:24.839 Can make it Oooh yes, yes, indeed, yeah, So that's 0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:26.719 just nuts man. And so he had this idea of 0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:29.440 a slasher who pursued people in their dreams, and his 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.359 next few years continued to expand the horror genre that 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:35.440 he was now at least semi comfortably resigned to. Nineteen 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:37.840 eighty six Is Deadly Friend was an adaptation of a 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.920 sci fi novel about a teenage computer prodigy who implants 0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:43.480 a processor chip into the brain of a comatose neighbor, 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.920 with the titular deadly results. Nineteen eighty eight Is the 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:51.160 Serpent in the Rainbow, starring Bill Pullman, is an incredibly 0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:54.160 fascinating film. I really love this film. He goes back 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:56.480 to the roots of the zombie genre and is based 0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:00.360 on a real life account of an ethnobotanist was in 0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:05.680 Haiti studying the botanical roots of zombies and voodoo and 0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:10.000 the idea that you can combine certain plant elements and 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:13.080 vegetable elements into powders and like blow it in somebody's 0:36:13.080 --> 0:36:16.360 face and put them into this state of living death 0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:20.120 where they would act under your control and do your bidding. 0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:23.360 And before, like I mentioned in the last episode, before 0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:25.479 Georgiamhera came along with the Knight of the Living Dead, 0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:27.880 positing the zombies were actually going to rise from the 0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:30.279 dead The first time that Americans had really heard about 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.600 this was in I Walked with a Zombie in the forties, 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:36.120 which is actually about Haitian voodoo. So he goes and 0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:39.839 adapts this novel and filmed it in Haiti after the 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.840 overthrow of the Duvaliers, and they literally had to flee 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:46.640 because they were like, it's not safe for you here anymore. 0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:50.239 And so the film is just, I mean, it is 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:54.480 insane because it has a very relatively faithful depiction of 0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:58.839 the Tantan mccoot, who were the paramilitary secret police that 0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:02.560 were basically the death squads of the Devalier's Papa Doc 0:37:02.600 --> 0:37:06.000 and Baby Doc. And this was not that covered in 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:09.080 Western media, and certainly not that I mean it was covered. 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.279 This was certainly covered in Western media, but not in 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:15.000 like mainstream genre fair filmmaking, and certainly not on location 0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:20.399 in Haiti. Then nineteen eighty nine Shocker comes along. It's good. 0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:22.840 It's a fine movie. It's a fine horror movie starring 0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:28.759 Mitch Peleggy. Mitch Peleggi. Mitch Peleggy is he's an X 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:31.240 Files guy. He's best known as one of their FBI 0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:37.640 handlers and X Files anyway, that presupposes what if a 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:44.400 serial killer became electric after he was executd anyway, bomb water, 0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:49.560 bubbles grave, and ever smoked weed. So it's oh yeah, 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:51.360 but yeah, it's a first bom ripe idea. 0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:55.080 I didn't realize, I mean, that's a totally derail you, 0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:58.520 but that the concept of zombies and popular culture is 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:02.080 relatively new as opposed to like mummies and yeah things 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:02.200 like that. 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:04.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not that big of a nerd 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:10.439 to have read into where Romero was purposely diverting from 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:13.279 the established canon of like, I wa, I mean that 0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:15.880 movie is really groundbreaking. It's first of all, I think 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.600 it's like the first time zombie appears as a in 0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:22.440 a Hollywood title. But I don't know when he was 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:25.799 writing or directing Not a Living Dead how much he 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:29.080 was purposely like I'm going to take this away from that. 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:34.480 But yeah, I mean it's really interesting. You know, Haitian 0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:36.960 culture is extremely fascinating, and also the way that the 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:42.120 US decimated that country. It's also the first successful slaver 0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:46.960 vault on countrywide level. So yeah, read about Haiti cool culture. Anyway. 0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:49.560 Craven came Roaring Back in nineteen ninety one with The 0:38:49.600 --> 0:38:52.840 People Under the Stairs, which is an absolutely bad film. 0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:56.040 I'm going to describe it to you now. It stars 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.960 twin peaks Everett McGill and Wendy Robie big Ed and 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:03.320 Nadine as a pair of inbred husband and wife costs 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:07.560 playing slum lords who have this enormous house that they 0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:10.120 have accrued all of their ill gotten wealth into, but 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:14.919 they have also secretly been capturing children and mutilating them 0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:18.160 and stashing them in the basement when they failed to 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:22.879 live up to their insane conservative religious standards. The two 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:26.880 were very pointedly a character of Nancy and Ronald Reagan, 0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:30.160 which is oh deeply wild, and at one point Everett 0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:32.840 McGill shows up in a gimp suit wielding a shotgun 0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:35.880 with zero explanation. He just comes out in a gimbsuit. 0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:40.400 But so they're not they're not even the antagonists, or 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:42.840 they are not the anti heroes of the film. The 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:45.719 protagonist in this movie are all black. There's like an 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:48.319 elementary middle school age kid who is the star of it. 0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:52.719 And what happens is is that he basically the accompanies 0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:55.279 two older guys on a break in and they're trying 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.359 to rob them and uncovers this whole macabre world that's 0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:02.719 going on in there, and it just deliberately is like 0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:06.719 just a deliberate, pointed barb into the ratio dynamics of 0:40:06.800 --> 0:40:09.239 the US at the time, because not only do you 0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:13.120 have this idea that's playing on white fears of you know, 0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:16.640 black crime and home invasion seeping into the rich suburbs 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:18.799 and et cetera, but the whole film becomes about how 0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:23.200 these people are the actual true disgusting monsters. It grows 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.719 thirty one million on a six million dollar budget and 0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:29.239 is just now a legitimate classic of the genre. But 0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:32.960 then Craven went into this whole ambitious reboot New Nightmare 0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:36.080 in nineteen eighty four, and then he did Vampire in Brooklyn. 0:40:37.280 --> 0:40:41.319 Do you ever see Vampire in Brooklyn? Jordan? No, not 0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:41.959 a great movie. 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:45.680 Was that what started Eddie Murphy's downturn. 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:49.160 Or that Boomerang? I think? But well Boomerang came first. 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:50.640 But yeah, this is the film. 0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:52.920 That life This isn't a holy Man holy Man. 0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:55.680 No, this is holy Man was later. This is the 0:40:55.719 --> 0:41:02.720 film that prompted Dennis Dennis at faced, little Guy Oh Miller, 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:08.080 now the Blonde One, Tommy Boy Spade, not Dennis Spade, 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:14.560 Dennis Spade, David Quaid, David Quaid, Dennis Spade, Dennis Spade. 0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:18.840 This is the film Vampire Brooklyn. Sorry, Vampire Brooklyn is 0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.560 the film just having a stroke. 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:23.920 It's like a laser with a mirror. 0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:29.080 It's just watching it go back and forth. This is 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:32.120 the film that prompt is Dennis Spade on his Hollywood 0:41:32.120 --> 0:41:32.480 Minute and. 0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:38.200 David No, no, I didn't got me doing it. This 0:41:38.280 --> 0:41:43.640 is David film Bade, Dennis Quay, the film that prompted Burns. 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:46.760 This is a film that prompted. 0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:48.759 Dave son of a Whore. 0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:53.600 This is the film that prompt This is the film 0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:59.680 that prompted David Spade in SNL's Hollywood Minute to show 0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:04.480 sure of Eddie Murphy in Vampire and Brooklyn and say, 0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:09.440 look kids, a falling star. That then spurred Eddie Murphy 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:14.560 to never return to said L until the twenty oughts. Anyway, 0:42:14.800 --> 0:42:18.480 that brings us to pitching scream. 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:24.880 The anecdote was totally worthy. Julie Pleck, Wes Craven's assistant 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:27.520 at the time, told the Ringer Vampire and Brooklyn came 0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:29.640 out and it was kind of a disaster, and that 0:42:29.760 --> 0:42:32.560 made him sad. Oh, so he wasn't in any hurry 0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:36.000 to jump back into it into his own genre. Producer 0:42:36.080 --> 0:42:38.520 Mary Anne Madelena said that Craven told her that he 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:41.600 quote wanted to get out of the horror ghetto, but 0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:45.320 quote a couple months later he read it again maading 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:48.200 the script for Scream, and they had attached Drew Barrymore, 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:51.000 and he just felt like, well why not. He really 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:53.239 enjoyed that work and he knew he was good at it, 0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:55.800 so he never thought twice about it once he accepted 0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:59.160 the job. Writer Kevin Williamson went over to Craven's house 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.279 to go over the script and told the ringer, I 0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:03.640 get lost driving up into the Hollywood Hills and I'm 0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:05.680 already late. And then I show up and he has 0:43:05.719 --> 0:43:08.040 all these pages of notes on my script. I just 0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:10.480 see them sitting there on the table, and I'm like, 0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:13.239 oh no, this is gonna be horrible. He's gonna want 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:16.239 to change everything. I've heard these horror stories. I know 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:18.480 what happens now, this is the moment I get kicked 0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:20.919 to the curb. I always lived in fear of that. 0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:24.040 And then it turned out he was like, well, most 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:27.239 of these are typos. There were a bunch of typos. 0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:29.759 He goes, we should just fix everything. Don't you think 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.680 has he said he used to be a teacher. 0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:36.680 That's an English teacher, don't you think? Yeah? All the feedback, 0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:39.200 I mean, god, I just you know, he's like not 0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:41.920 I think. I mean. John Harper is my all time 0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:47.080 favorite horror director. But the depth of Wes's like generosity 0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:50.600 to younger people is really something that truly touched me 0:43:50.640 --> 0:43:52.799 in this episode, even just the way that he gave 0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:54.360 feedback to actors and talk to. 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:57.880 People, which we'll talk about Jamie Kennedy thing this goal. Yeah, 0:43:58.320 --> 0:44:00.799 the only time I'll ever say that Jamie Caning was cool. 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.600 He empowered Jamie Kennedy to make Miami's Most Wanted anyway, Sorry, 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:05.120 keep going. 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.920 The Weinsteins were both predictably bullish. You say about the 0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:11.759 tone of the film. Bob Weinstein told Vanity Fair, I 0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:13.680 didn't want it to be a parody. He met with 0:44:13.680 --> 0:44:16.320 the writer Kevin Williamson and said, Kevin, I want to 0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:18.319 make sure I bought the script. I think I bought. 0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:21.040 Is it a funny movie with scares or is it 0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:25.120 a scary movie with humor? Very good point Williamson responded, 0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:28.200 it's a scary movie with humor, to which Bob responded, good, 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:30.080 that's the way I saw it, but you've got the 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:34.160 wrong title. He'll remember that the title was originally scary movie, 0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:38.520 which is a little on the nose and also hilarious 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:41.360 given the scary movie that we know about today. According 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:44.040 to Bob Weinstein, it was actually his brother, the actual 0:44:44.040 --> 0:44:46.480 living monster, Harvey Weinstein, who came up with the new 0:44:46.520 --> 0:44:50.399 title from a Michael Jackson song out that year. Kind 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:52.560 of surprised that MJ's team didn't sue. 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:56.600 Was the Michael Jackson Janet Jackson song that was like 0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:58.640 one of the most expensive music videos of all the 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:01.319 time because they were I think it's still all this 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:05.080 crazy early CGI with it. Song sucks, but still yeah. 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:07.680 Yeah, song sucked. Then I'm surprised that one of the 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:08.719 Jackson's didn't sue. 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:11.480 Oh my god, other things on his mind too soon 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:16.920 as you meditate on that, we'll be right back with 0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:19.400 more too much information after these messages. 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.800 Once the movie moved into official production, though, Drew Barrymore 0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:37.359 changed her mind and told Williamson that she only wanted 0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:40.759 to be in the opening scene. This actually delighted Williamson, though, 0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:43.480 because he'd been influenced by Psycho, in which Janet Lee, 0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.680 introduced as the obstensible star of the film, is killed 0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:49.600 off early on spoiler. 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:51.799 Give her a thirty year old movie, Yeah. 0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:54.439 Psycho, sixty five year old movie. 0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:55.759 Well yeah. 0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:58.839 Producer Mary and Madelena suggested that Barrymore wanted to leave 0:45:58.880 --> 0:46:02.240 the production altogether, but was afraid of running a foul 0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:05.319 of the Weinstein's Ooh, yeah, I told you my my 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:08.720 Weinstein story. Right, well, let me rephrase that. Yeah, buddy, 0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:12.719 I knew something. It was like a friend of a 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:14.960 friend who worked at the Weinstein office, and apparently there 0:46:15.000 --> 0:46:17.760 was like an edict that you couldn't have like bowls 0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:20.279 of candy on your desk because Harvey just had no 0:46:20.360 --> 0:46:23.719 self control, as we've since discovered, and would just just 0:46:24.000 --> 0:46:25.560 eat it all, to the point where he would just 0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:28.400 like regularly vomit in his office from eating too much candy. 0:46:28.520 --> 0:46:33.359 Oh do that's foul? Ugh God, there is no way 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:35.920 in which that gloop. There's no way in which that 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:36.800 man will get worse. 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.320 With the lead role of Sidney Prescott vacated, production began 0:46:40.480 --> 0:46:42.920 casting about for a new cast. 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:45.360 I wrote that. Well. 0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:51.400 Yes, Vanessa Shaw of hocus Pocus and Reese Witherspoon were 0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:54.160 looked at, but Witherspoon, who was to be fair at nineteen, 0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:57.160 looked much younger than the rest of the cast. Well, 0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.440 Kevin Williamson's first choice of Molly Ringwald turned it down 0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:02.560 because she said she was too old to play a 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:04.520 high schooler. How old would she have been. She would 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:07.080 have been like twenty, she would have been like pushing thirty. 0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:09.360 Yeah, I like so with the rest of them, probably, 0:47:09.400 --> 0:47:12.520 but uh, you know, like there's that whole Hollywood grace period, 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.359 I guess before now when everybody just looks like an 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:19.319 airbrushed in Instagram model. But you know, you used to 0:47:19.480 --> 0:47:22.160 get away with casting twenty five year olds as teens. 0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:24.200 Oh yeah, well, I mean in Greece, wore don't we 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:27.439 talking about how like Stuckard Channing was pushing. I want 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:30.680 to say she was pushing like forty yeah, yeah, something like. 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:34.279 I mean the film the medium of film was more 0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:38.920 forgiving back then, you know, like actually literally than digital. 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:41.560 So but I just I mean, that seems like the 0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:43.759 kind of thing Molly Ringwold would do because she is 0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:47.120 self aware and like by all accounts a relatively lovely person. 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.799 Yeah, oh wait, I take that back, Stuckard Channing was 0:47:50.880 --> 0:47:54.279 like thirty four, okay, so younger than we are now 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:55.960 a really bad news huggle. 0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:57.840 We can't start in Greece anymore. 0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:02.160 We've aged out of height, aged out of high school roles. 0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:04.239 When I was in high school, I was cast as 0:48:04.280 --> 0:48:06.399 all the I used to get stopped and shown hall 0:48:06.440 --> 0:48:12.720 passes by the underclassmen. In high school, I was always 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:14.640 I always had roles in drama because I was always 0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:16.440 cast as the adult. I remember we did I Love 0:48:16.520 --> 0:48:21.320 Lucy and I was Fred, which was a bummer. It 0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:24.560 was Vince Fontaine and Greece. Speaking of Greece, any anytime 0:48:24.600 --> 0:48:27.920 they needed a lecherous older man, or like grumpy or stooped, 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:31.160 I was always cast I just get grumpy. Yeah, well 0:48:31.200 --> 0:48:32.480 you were like King Lear, weren't you. 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:34.600 Oh stop bringing that up, all right? 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:36.840 Were so? Okay? Who else would I looked at? For 0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:41.960 Sydney Prescott. The final choices came down to Alicia Witt 0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:44.759 then of the sitcom Sybil. I Love Alicia Witch. She 0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:48.120 was in mister Holland's Opus. She was the clarinet player 0:48:48.120 --> 0:48:50.160 that he's trying to teach how to play the Redhead. 0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:53.360 She was dating or married to Ben Folds for a while. 0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:58.280 She's great. Okay, she's from near my hometown. She's from Worcester, Massachusetts. 0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:00.640 I think both of her parents died in a carbon 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:03.880 monoxide leak not too long ago. Google that. Google that. 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:06.600 Check me see if I have my my local hometown. 0:49:06.640 --> 0:49:07.760 Girl makes good loar. 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:08.799 That makes good lore. 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:13.280 When her parents died, oh, Brittany Murphy, oh, also is considered. 0:49:13.320 --> 0:49:16.000 Who do we ever forget how she died? Because then 0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:18.040 her like husband died similarly. 0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:22.840 Yeah, Jesus christ dude, Well yeah, her parents were found 0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:24.600 frozen to death. 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:25.440 Oh that was it. 0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:27.920 Yeah, because they were like hoarders and refused to let 0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:30.840 anyone into the into their home for repairs or anything. 0:49:31.400 --> 0:49:35.560 And it was in Worcester. More importantly, it was in 0:49:35.640 --> 0:49:37.839 driving distance in my father's house. It was in It 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:43.040 was in worcesters near the Polar Beverage factory. My favorite Seltzer. 0:49:43.160 --> 0:49:48.040 Jesus christy. Yeah, that's a bummer. But she's great. And 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:50.800 ned Campbell was the third that made the final cut, 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:52.680 and Nev Campbell as herself. 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:55.360 I'm not sure if there was a starring nev Campbell 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:59.160 as herself. She was a professional ballerina before this Campbell. 0:50:00.440 --> 0:50:03.239 If Campbell, I think Alicia Whitt was too check me 0:50:03.280 --> 0:50:06.840 on that. Stop bringing up Alicia Witt, Jamie. Can we 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:08.200 pull up Alicia WIT's dead parents? 0:50:10.440 --> 0:50:10.640 Man? 0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:13.600 What happened to? Was there a thing with Brittany Murphy? 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:17.279 I forget Uh, there was a theory that there was 0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:19.760 like some kind of weird mold in the house or something. 0:50:19.800 --> 0:50:22.800 That is, they both died of like weird respiratory things 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:24.480 within like a couple months of each other. 0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:28.279 Yeah, because her husband was found dead in their home later. Yeah, 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:29.279 you're right about that, Dan. 0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:32.120 Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been like 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:36.000 a one of those like TMZ ABC News specials. 0:50:36.160 --> 0:50:38.279 I think everyone just loved her too much and it 0:50:38.360 --> 0:50:43.120 was so sad Brittany Murphy. Yeah, I know, yeah really was. 0:50:44.040 --> 0:50:47.520 Today's the eighteenth anniversary of Back to Black coming up. 0:50:48.960 --> 0:50:50.680 Just bringing in tragic young women. 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:52.600 Huh. Yeah. Keiths breast Specialty. 0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.360 Campbell, who is a beautiful, chestnut mare of a woman, 0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:59.840 started in the Craft within May of ninety six, and 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:04.000 he is now obviously indelibly linked with the Scream franchise 0:51:04.239 --> 0:51:07.760 and the character of Sidney Prescott, but after the casting 0:51:07.800 --> 0:51:10.919 Kerfluffel in the recent reboots, I sort of hate her. 0:51:11.880 --> 0:51:16.160 To briefly sum that up, they relaunched, they relaunched Scream 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:23.520 in twenty one, and she has a cameo where David 0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:26.919 Arquette like calls her character and is like, don't come 0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:30.680 back to Woodsboro. There's another ghost Face and she was like, Okay, 0:51:30.760 --> 0:51:35.040 I won't. That's it. And she didn't come back for 0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:39.279 six because even though Courtney Cox and David Arquette came 0:51:39.280 --> 0:51:42.239 back for five, Courtney Cox was also in six, but 0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:45.160 Nev Campbell kept holding out. She was like quoting too 0:51:45.200 --> 0:51:49.920 high a price, and the lead actress, Melissa Barrera, who 0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:54.840 is in The Heights, basically got a little too real 0:51:55.040 --> 0:52:00.480 about Israeli and Palestine and production canned her and brought 0:52:00.520 --> 0:52:03.200 back Nev Campbell, and Nev Campbell has not addressed that. 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:06.520 Oh man, dude, I just got it. I finally just 0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:10.400 got it. Ghost Face Killer. It's a Scream reference. 0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:16.239 No, no, I. 0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:19.960 Actually don't think it is. Wu Tang predated Scream. See 0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:22.560 you were correct, Yeah, yeah, because they did well. 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:24.319 It's funny because Wu Tang did a whole thing. 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:24.719 You know. 0:52:24.760 --> 0:52:26.960 They were so into the grindhouse stuff, like not just 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:30.040 the The Shaw Brothers seventy stuff, but also horror movie 0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:33.920 and there's a there's a a Wu Tang side project 0:52:34.000 --> 0:52:39.640 called Grave Diggas. It's like horror rap. So anyway, think 0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:44.040 of that what you will. Uh Yeah, so that sucks 0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:49.200 and five Cream is good. Scream six Cream I didn't 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:50.959 like as much, and I will just not be seeing 0:52:50.960 --> 0:52:54.919 the seventh one anyway. Matthew Lillard auditioned for the male lead, 0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:58.120 eventually played by Skeet Ulrich, whose actual name is Brian 0:52:58.280 --> 0:53:02.000 ray Trout, but he went with Skeet Ulrich so low 0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:04.319 and I had this conversation last night. Ulrick was his 0:53:04.320 --> 0:53:08.480 stepfather's name, who actually raised him. And there's actually a 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:11.480 horrific trauma at the base of this joke because Ulrick's 0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:14.880 birth father actually kidnapped him and his brother in like 0:53:14.960 --> 0:53:19.239 a deranged custody move and just traveled around with them 0:53:19.320 --> 0:53:23.280 for like three years across three different states before finally 0:53:23.320 --> 0:53:25.919 giving up the ghost and returning them to their mother 0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:30.200 and stepfather. And Skeat is a derivation of Skeeter, which 0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:32.800 was just a Little league baseball name from his coach. 0:53:34.480 --> 0:53:36.680 But yes, it's very stupid as far as a screen name. 0:53:36.760 --> 0:53:38.319 Wow wow wow wow. 0:53:39.080 --> 0:53:41.040 Yeah. We'll also get to the We'll get to another 0:53:41.080 --> 0:53:45.920 traumatic childhood incident for young Skeet later. Anyway, Matthew Lillard 0:53:46.000 --> 0:53:47.840 auditioned for the lead and was told you're not the 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:50.600 right guy to make out with Nev Campbell the entire time. 0:53:50.840 --> 0:53:54.320 Why don't you come back in for the best friend? Ulrick, 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:57.520 who was then quoted next in Entertainment Weekly's Oral History, said, 0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:01.000 with possible malice, I'll have a with Matt about that. 0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:04.680 I think you should let that go by now. This 0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:06.480 is all made funnier by the fact that Lillard and 0:54:06.520 --> 0:54:09.760 Campbell started dating during the production of Scream and stayed 0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:13.120 together for two years. Also hilarious. In a twenty two 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:17.680 interview with Vulture, Matthew Lillard said of the movie, it's 0:54:17.680 --> 0:54:20.960 not a perfect movie. I think the opening sequence is incredible, 0:54:21.200 --> 0:54:23.359 and the middle of the movie sort of gets bogged down. 0:54:23.719 --> 0:54:26.719 Then the end sequence, the last twenty minutes is incredible. 0:54:26.880 --> 0:54:30.240 Apparently, Matthew Lillard was accompanying his girlfriend to auditions somewhere 0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:32.720 else in the building, and the casting director for Scream 0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:35.560 saw him and encouraged him audition another one of those 0:54:37.480 --> 0:54:41.600 I mean salt grain No, I just I guess it's 0:54:41.640 --> 0:54:43.799 worse if you if someone looked at him and was like. 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:48.760 You'd be a good second banana as a deraanded serial killer. 0:54:50.560 --> 0:54:54.759 Production was iing Vince Vaughn for the role that went 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:55.280 to Alrich. 0:54:55.560 --> 0:55:00.879 I guess because singers swingers come out too, But like, 0:55:01.440 --> 0:55:02.719 I don't know where that would have been in the 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:06.880 production release cycle of of Scream, So I don't know. 0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:10.200 Alrighty Brunette was soulful ozz. 0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:12.680 Yeah, that's how they went with Ulrich. Or we have 0:55:12.760 --> 0:55:13.680 Johnny Depp at home. 0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:17.239 He does. He is good in that though, and he's 0:55:17.239 --> 0:55:19.640 going as good as it gets too as the troubled 0:55:19.719 --> 0:55:21.840 like guy that you want to believe is good but 0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:23.080 you know that there's something bad. 0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:26.520 He's great in this movie. He is obviously a QTE 0:55:26.640 --> 0:55:31.360 and it just becomes so menacing. Yeah. And he'd started 0:55:31.400 --> 0:55:33.799 with Nef Campbell in the Craft, so that contributed to 0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:36.680 their chemistry. He, however, did not realize that the film 0:55:36.719 --> 0:55:39.399 had any comedic overtones. He went deep into his role, 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:42.040 researching famous teen killers like Leopold and Loeb and the 0:55:42.080 --> 0:55:45.240 Menendez Brothers, and therefore, on the first day of shooting, 0:55:45.400 --> 0:55:47.960 he was somewhat taken aback by Jamie Kennedy and Matthew 0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:51.279 Lillard's let's say, broad performances. 0:55:53.160 --> 0:55:54.399 That makes it work so well? 0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:57.560 Yeah, he told it Entertainment Weekly. I remember thinking, what 0:55:57.640 --> 0:56:01.520 are they doing? Don't they know? This isn't funny, This 0:56:01.600 --> 0:56:04.320 isn't supposed to be funny. And man, I was wrong. 0:56:04.560 --> 0:56:07.880 I was on skeetz Wikipedia page. Apparently he enjoys woodworking 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:10.560 and gardening. Sweet boy lovely. 0:56:10.800 --> 0:56:14.080 I know, I regret. I regret taking that stray. Yeah, 0:56:15.160 --> 0:56:16.480 taking a potshot at Skeet. 0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:19.399 To be fair, even Matthew Lillard admits that the pair 0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:22.480 his on Jamie Kennedy's maniacal performance at the film's end 0:56:22.600 --> 0:56:25.839 is one hundred percent scenery chewing, as you describe. And 0:56:25.880 --> 0:56:29.080 I second, he told Vulture, we were crazy. If I 0:56:29.080 --> 0:56:31.680 ever saw somebody do that on a set, I'd be like, dude, 0:56:31.760 --> 0:56:35.400 bring it down fifty eight percent. Lillard has one of 0:56:35.440 --> 0:56:38.480 the film's most hilarious ad libs when Alrich throws a 0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:41.560 cordless pone at him, which wasn't in the script. Lillard 0:56:41.600 --> 0:56:44.040 genuinely reacts you mean with the phone, Dick. 0:56:45.480 --> 0:56:48.120 My hehole performance is incredible. I mean everyone cited this. 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:51.440 My Mom's gonna be so mad at me. But he's 0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:54.960 like covered in blood, like drooling. It's really nuts. 0:56:56.880 --> 0:56:59.200 All our colleges that Wes Craven told him to throw 0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:01.200 the phone at Matthew just to see what he would do, 0:57:02.800 --> 0:57:05.120 blaming the director. One of the other oldest traits of 0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:05.439 the book. 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:07.680 I do like his funny like Wes craved like thoughtfully 0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:09.879 puts like the frame of his eyeglass in his mouth, 0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:14.160 and he's like, Matthew, throw the phone at him. Let's 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:15.000 see what happens. 0:57:15.840 --> 0:57:19.640 Let's see what happens again, A very professorial yeah thing 0:57:19.680 --> 0:57:20.080 to say. 0:57:20.240 --> 0:57:23.520 The precise stature of Lillard and Rick's character's relationship was 0:57:23.520 --> 0:57:26.400 almost immediately questioned, especially by queer fans of the movie, 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:28.400 but it took a little while for the principles involved 0:57:28.440 --> 0:57:31.920 to admit the seemingly obvious subtexts. And this movie was 0:57:31.960 --> 0:57:34.880 influenced by the Leopold Loeb case, and of course, anyone 0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.680 who has seen Alfred Hitchcock's movie Rope, which is a 0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:41.800 take on that case, will recognize the mid century closeted 0:57:42.120 --> 0:57:45.360 overtones of that relationship. Leopold and Loeb never caught to 0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:48.520 it themselves, but it was a widely speculated situation in 0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:51.040 which one of them was like kind of the alpha 0:57:51.080 --> 0:57:52.600 and the other one was in love with him and 0:57:52.640 --> 0:57:56.040 just kind of went along with it. But while Kevin 0:57:56.040 --> 0:57:57.960 Williamson came out to his friends and family in nineteen 0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:01.080 ninety two, he gave an interview with ps dot Com 0:58:01.080 --> 0:58:03.480 into twenty twenty two, and he told them that he 0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:05.920 was very hesitant to present the gay side of me 0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:09.040 in my work at the time, resulting in the queerness 0:58:09.080 --> 0:58:11.920 of characters Billy and Stu being quote a little codd 0:58:12.120 --> 0:58:15.800 and maybe accidental. Looking back, he told the site, now 0:58:15.920 --> 0:58:18.440 maybe I'd be braver, Maybe I wouldn't be that shy 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:20.600 little gay writer who felt like he couldn't get away 0:58:20.640 --> 0:58:24.000 with it. Williamson then elaborated on the queer readings that 0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:26.880 are inherent into the coore genre. It's always the survival 0:58:26.920 --> 0:58:28.920 tales that connect us. I think that's one of the 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:31.160 reasons Final Girls are so important to us as a 0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:34.040 gay audience. Prior to Scream, he said, he related to 0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:36.960 Jamie Lee Curtis and Halloween because I know what It's like, 0:58:37.640 --> 0:58:40.320 I think gay kids everywhere understand that survival element that 0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:42.720 we have to sort of create in ourselves, and then 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:44.760 when we're watching the final girl have to prove herself 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:46.880 and rise to the challenge and save her life. I 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:50.280 think that's something gay kids everywhere can relate to. Lillard, 0:58:50.320 --> 0:58:53.000 with much less subtlety, addressed the rumors at Seattle Comic 0:58:53.080 --> 0:58:55.960 Con in twenty twenty three. Stu and Billy were definitely 0:58:56.000 --> 0:59:01.080 gay and like Ski Orick is like, uh what. But 0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:03.520 then Lillard continues and he says, I said it to 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:06.959 the twentieth anniversary with Kevin. Somebody asked, are they gay? 0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:09.840 I was like, they're definitely gay, right Kevin? And Kevin 0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:13.840 was like probably. So there's all that. 0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:16.640 Matthew Lillard doesn't strike me as terribly intelligent. 0:59:17.040 --> 0:59:19.120 He's I have such a soft spot for him though, 0:59:19.200 --> 0:59:21.880 because of this and Thirteen Ghosts. 0:59:22.920 --> 0:59:24.040 Which she's all that too. 0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:28.400 M I was listening to comedy around the comedies around 0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:32.080 this time, but also SLC Punk, which is like such 0:59:32.080 --> 0:59:34.560 a fantastic under the radar movie that was so huge 0:59:34.600 --> 0:59:35.760 for me and my high school buddies. 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:40.200 Just could we do the movie? No? It was a 0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:43.480 really good shaggy Courtney Cox was off of the part 0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:47.760 of these scheming journalists. Gail Weathers by think of Carl Weathers. 0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:50.440 Gail Weathers by one of the film's producers in her 0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:52.760 manager's office, and she jumped at the chance to play 0:59:52.760 --> 0:59:55.200 a character that was a little against type. She was 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:57.640 well into her friend's role at this time, she told 0:59:57.640 --> 1:00:00.120 the Hollywood Reporter, But I had to convince Wez, so 1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:01.720 I wrote him a letter and assured him that being 1:00:01.720 --> 1:00:05.040 a bitch wouldn't be a stretch at all, leaving that 1:00:05.040 --> 1:00:08.280 one there anything to say about that. Okay, Brookshields and 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:11.080 Janine Garofflo were also considered, who both would have been good. 1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:14.880 The other principal female lead, Rose McGowan, had to audition 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:17.360 for the film twice when her agent demanded two hundred 1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:20.800 and fifty thousand dollars instead of the offered fifty thousand. 1:00:21.080 --> 1:00:22.600 That's insanely low. 1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:25.280 Well, and it's up too. I mean this has been 1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:27.720 cast as like her being difficult, and she's even an 1:00:27.720 --> 1:00:29.760 interview seid, like my agent was too aggressive and like 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:32.280 fed it up. But everyone else was offered one hundred 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:35.640 k and she was offered fifty, So there was already 1:00:35.640 --> 1:00:38.360 some disparity there. I also think Rose McGowan has been 1:00:38.640 --> 1:00:42.200 was like one of Harvey's victims, so that's like, oh, oh, 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:44.520 she was one of the I mean she launched me. Yeah, 1:00:44.520 --> 1:00:46.280 she was behind it a lot of me too stuff, 1:00:46.320 --> 1:00:49.120 but like, I don't know that it was. Oh so 1:00:49.560 --> 1:00:52.400 she said he actually didn't assault her until nineteen ninety seven, 1:00:53.080 --> 1:01:04.040 which cool that it wasn't in this movie. 1:01:06.720 --> 1:01:09.760 Well for this movie, making matters a little sadder. She 1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:13.760 ended up just backtracking and taking the fifty grand. Yeah, 1:01:14.040 --> 1:01:16.000 which makes me sad because she's my favorite character in 1:01:16.000 --> 1:01:16.320 this movie. 1:01:16.400 --> 1:01:17.240 Yeah, she's a treat. 1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:21.080 She deliberately dyed her hair blonde to contrast with Nev Campbell's. 1:01:21.120 --> 1:01:22.800 She said, I hated that color she was talking to 1:01:22.840 --> 1:01:25.440 e W, but it was perfect for the film. Her 1:01:25.520 --> 1:01:27.760 character's death scene, which is kind of the moment when 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:28.680 I check out of the movie. 1:01:28.680 --> 1:01:30.760 We go back to the stuff you're saying about her 1:01:31.000 --> 1:01:32.720 wardrobe and yeah. 1:01:32.480 --> 1:01:35.080 So I guess the wardrobe department wanted her to be 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:36.960 like more of a tomboy and gave her all these 1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:40.760 like overalls and things that she was like, no, I'm 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:43.560 not going to do that, And she apparently got into 1:01:43.600 --> 1:01:46.400 a cab and went out shopping and came back with 1:01:46.720 --> 1:01:48.480 the stuff that we see her in, which we're all 1:01:48.600 --> 1:01:52.720 very like extremely nineties hot slut. 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:56.160 Sure, I probably can't keep saying that. No, okay, cool, 1:01:56.240 --> 1:01:58.000 you know more about the rules of horror than I do. 1:01:58.080 --> 1:02:01.000 That is that a is that an archetype? Thirty rock reftords. 1:02:01.040 --> 1:02:05.280 At one point, someone walks into Jack's office and Liz goes, now, 1:02:05.280 --> 1:02:11.800 who's this hot slut? Anyway? Yeah, and then she also 1:02:11.880 --> 1:02:13.240 like one of the other things she talked about is 1:02:13.280 --> 1:02:15.560 that like the set decorator had given her like Indigo 1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:16.880 Girls posters and stuff. 1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:17.400 Yeah. 1:02:17.480 --> 1:02:19.680 Yeah, she went and like ripped them down. She was like, 1:02:19.720 --> 1:02:22.000 that is not what this character would listen to. I 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:24.680 love that. There's definitely well there's I think there's some. 1:02:24.880 --> 1:02:27.000 But she was just like she was like really took 1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:29.640 ownership of like the character as it appears in the film. 1:02:29.640 --> 1:02:31.640 It was not how it was written or intended by production. 1:02:32.320 --> 1:02:38.440 Bless Indeed. I love a spunky, spitfire. Yeah, sharp tongued. 1:02:39.040 --> 1:02:41.760 Everything I just said sounds bad, Yeah, it does. It's 1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:43.400 got to be a better way. It's gotta be a 1:02:43.440 --> 1:02:47.760 better way to say, fix it. And post brassy. 1:02:47.920 --> 1:02:55.880 Maybe call her brassy woman just just takes no guff yeah, yeah, witty, hilarious, 1:02:56.120 --> 1:03:00.880 no guff yeah, sticks up her sauce. What oh the 1:03:00.960 --> 1:03:04.040 garage scene. Oh yeah, the garage scene. Thank you. Her 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:07.080 character's death scene was a big piece of the set's climax, 1:03:07.480 --> 1:03:11.040 but it occasionally veered into chaos. Well, Pelton goes face 1:03:11.080 --> 1:03:13.200 with beer bottles, but she didn't have to do. She 1:03:13.320 --> 1:03:16.160 reached the door and couldn't turned the doorknob and made 1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:19.000 it out, but she stopped wet back, picked up beer 1:03:19.040 --> 1:03:21.360 bottles on the ground that she dropped and threw them 1:03:21.360 --> 1:03:23.840 at the killer, which I mean, again is what I 1:03:23.880 --> 1:03:26.200 love about her. She was not gonna just run from him. 1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:28.240 She was going to attack him. She was just fighter. 1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:31.760 But it's oh oh, that was her fatal flaw. And 1:03:31.880 --> 1:03:35.120 also not wearing a bra, would you sub you? She 1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:38.160 accidentally It sounds so creepy. It was northern California in 1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.000 an unheated garage, but it is like, obviously the thing 1:03:41.040 --> 1:03:43.320 that everyone notices about that scene. 1:03:43.680 --> 1:03:46.200 She accidentally hit a camera with a beer bottle and 1:03:46.280 --> 1:03:48.840 shattered a lens, which I can't imagine was cheap. 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:52.800 Yeah right, they were shooting an anamorphic too, oh, which 1:03:52.800 --> 1:03:53.240 we'll get to. 1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:57.120 Yeah. Rose McGowan was so small that she actually had 1:03:57.120 --> 1:03:59.800 to be nailed to the garage door by her shirt 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:02.800 because she kept slipping through the doggie door. 1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:03.680 That she was wedged in. 1:04:04.960 --> 1:04:07.720 It's a dumb death, it is. 1:04:07.920 --> 1:04:09.320 It is funny because when she was talking to e 1:04:09.480 --> 1:04:11.320 W she was like, I've gotten into my house when 1:04:11.360 --> 1:04:14.600 being locked out multiple times that way. 1:04:15.560 --> 1:04:19.840 I actually my aunt's elderly neighbor was killed by a 1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:22.520 garage door that malfunctioned and closed on him. 1:04:22.880 --> 1:04:24.880 Jesus did it just like drop heavily? 1:04:25.120 --> 1:04:30.400 I don't. I don't know. It's very final destination. Okay, yeah, 1:04:30.440 --> 1:04:32.320 I don't. I don't know if he was just old 1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:35.280 and like the Austin power is seen when the thing 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:37.880 is slowly moving towards the guard, it just screams for 1:04:37.920 --> 1:04:38.800 like ninety seconds. 1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:40.600 Oh sure, yeah, I don't know. 1:04:40.640 --> 1:04:43.240 I shouldn't joke about that. But I didn't know him, 1:04:43.400 --> 1:04:49.360 so he's an abstraction to me. Good this really, this 1:04:49.440 --> 1:04:56.800 episode's bringing out my worst good. Oh where am i? Oh? 1:04:56.880 --> 1:04:59.640 The role of Randy, the guy who knows all the 1:04:59.720 --> 1:05:03.440 rules about surviving horror films Seth Green, Jason Lee, and 1:05:03.480 --> 1:05:06.080 Breck and Meyer all auditioned for the role. All of them. 1:05:06.240 --> 1:05:07.760 They would have been gone, Well, Jason Lee is a 1:05:07.760 --> 1:05:10.919 little too alpha, but Seth Y and Breck Andmeira they work. 1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:12.040 They have beta energy. 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:18.000 Yeah right, I'm not wrong, right, Yeah, you're right. As 1:05:18.320 --> 1:05:20.000 I ask for your approval as to whether or not 1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:22.439 someone is a beta, as my voice gets higher and higher, 1:05:22.560 --> 1:05:32.160 my voice cracks. Oh. Jamie Kennedy ultimately won the role 1:05:32.280 --> 1:05:34.840 and has a really sweet story about Wes Craven shooting 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:36.480 that scene. Oh you should take this. I know I 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:37.400 love how much you love this. 1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:40.560 Oh yeah, this is one of the aforementioned Durable West 1:05:40.560 --> 1:05:43.800 creator and anecdotes. Kennedy was talking to Entertainment Weekly. They 1:05:43.800 --> 1:05:46.040 did a big oral history and a bunch of interviews casts. 1:05:46.080 --> 1:05:48.280 We're gonna be citing them along, but he was saying 1:05:49.240 --> 1:05:51.400 Craven liked his first take. He was like, I think 1:05:51.440 --> 1:05:53.840 that's good. But Kennedy was like, I can do better. 1:05:53.960 --> 1:05:56.160 So he did a second and then a third, and 1:05:56.200 --> 1:06:00.360 then he said afterward, Wes said cut print great and 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:03.000 said how do you feel? And I said I feel good. 1:06:03.280 --> 1:06:05.000 He said, well, I want to tell you I'm probably 1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:07.360 going to use the third take. Never be scared to 1:06:07.360 --> 1:06:10.400 ask for another take. Always trust your instincts. That was 1:06:10.440 --> 1:06:12.920 a big lesson for me, not to be scared. That 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:16.040 scene really helped me for my whole career, which is 1:06:16.080 --> 1:06:21.960 sweet like that. But again, Miami's Most Wanted Will he 1:06:21.960 --> 1:06:24.360 helped me when I was making Miami's Most Wanted. And 1:06:24.440 --> 1:06:25.960 the masked son of Mask? 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:28.080 Was he the son of Masque? 1:06:28.800 --> 1:06:32.680 He was in some dog Mask sequel. 1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:36.280 Well, you'll be pleased to know that Matthew Lillard and 1:06:36.280 --> 1:06:38.440 Nev Campbell weren't the only couple that came out of Scream. 1:06:38.800 --> 1:06:42.560 David Arquette cast says the good natured, if ineffectual Deputy 1:06:42.720 --> 1:06:46.520 Dewey met Courtney Cox at the first read. The Dewey 1:06:46.560 --> 1:06:48.920 was written as more of a dumb jock. Arquette decided 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:51.320 to play the character. It was a frustrated John Wayne 1:06:51.320 --> 1:06:55.280 want to be whose authority is constantly being undercut. David 1:06:55.360 --> 1:06:57.160 Arquette was said to be very excited to act with 1:06:57.200 --> 1:07:00.439 Courtney Cox. She was less enthused. Initially we all got 1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:03.360 cast Wes had had us out at his house our 1:07:03.440 --> 1:07:06.080 Kat's talking to the ringer. I saw Courtney and was like, hey, 1:07:06.120 --> 1:07:09.000 I'm playing Dewey and she's like yeah, I heard about 1:07:09.000 --> 1:07:11.480 you or something like that. She gave me some real attitude. 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:15.920 I love him in this movie. I normally hate David Arquette, 1:07:15.920 --> 1:07:18.320 but he's so good in this movie. Like I love 1:07:18.360 --> 1:07:22.800 how when when the ghost Face calls Sydney at their 1:07:22.880 --> 1:07:25.560 house and he's like long off the phone, but then 1:07:25.600 --> 1:07:31.120 he like grabs the phone. It's like hello, yeah, yeah, it's. 1:07:30.040 --> 1:07:31.920 A great it's it's a great role for him, and 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:36.680 it is so I mean, he comes back in the 1:07:36.680 --> 1:07:42.120 fifth one and has this unbelievably heartbreaking scene where he's 1:07:42.160 --> 1:07:48.200 like it's actually short, but he like wordlessly wakes up 1:07:48.200 --> 1:07:50.680 in his trailer and like goes and pours himself his 1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:53.560 morning coffee and whiskey and then like sits down and 1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:57.520 watches Gail on her new anchor show, like on the 1:07:57.600 --> 1:08:01.640 National News, and he's like does a lot of great 1:08:01.680 --> 1:08:05.000 wordless acting in that scene. And it's just so fraught because, like, 1:08:05.280 --> 1:08:07.960 you know, they got together on this movie and had 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:12.000 a child and divorced. So he plays that whole dynamic 1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:14.160 like there's so much real life history in there, and 1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:16.200 he's talked about how they co parent their kids, so 1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:19.080 they have like a good friendship and relationship as parents. 1:08:19.120 --> 1:08:21.880 But like man, he brings a ton of pathos to 1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:24.320 that fifth movie. It's like, honestly, one of my favorite 1:08:24.320 --> 1:08:28.519 things about it their dimension where they like, you know, 1:08:28.560 --> 1:08:30.040 he says like at one point, he says, like I 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:31.719 left in the middle of the night, like a coward, 1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:35.760 something like that, and she says, You're many things, but 1:08:35.800 --> 1:08:37.960 you are not a coward. And it's like one of 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:40.360 the sweetest moments I've seen in a horror movie. 1:08:41.160 --> 1:08:43.440 Did he bring any of that to Eight Legged Freaks. 1:08:44.640 --> 1:08:47.640 Or as many wrestling movies? 1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:48.200 Now? 1:08:48.240 --> 1:08:50.240 The Archets are just so sad, man, I mean, they 1:08:50.240 --> 1:08:54.960 had their Alexis had such a sad life and death. 1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:59.400 And anyway, I don't know much about Roseann Arquet, No 1:08:59.400 --> 1:08:59.840 one does. 1:09:01.840 --> 1:09:05.479 They are related, right, No, I think Patricia's widely considered 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:06.200 the best one. 1:09:06.760 --> 1:09:11.640 She's got an Academy Award for what Boyhood? Yeah, all right, So, 1:09:11.680 --> 1:09:12.360 the as. 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:14.160 We mentioned, the pair got together over the course filming. 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:17.080 Jamie Kennedy told Entertainment Weekly we had a table read 1:09:17.120 --> 1:09:19.759 and their characters just had a lot of interaction. I said, Jesus, 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:22.360 that's really good chemistry. Afterwards, we were going home to 1:09:22.400 --> 1:09:24.680 the airport. We all shared a limo and I was 1:09:24.720 --> 1:09:28.080 literally like, Okay, that wasn't acting. They were just getting 1:09:28.120 --> 1:09:30.160 along so well in the limousine. I was like, I'll 1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:33.200 just sit on this side of the partition. It was 1:09:33.200 --> 1:09:35.439 actually very beautiful. It was very nice to see people 1:09:35.479 --> 1:09:38.320 fall in love. Cox and Arquette got married in nineteen 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:40.599 ninety nine and have a daughter together, Although I as mentioned, 1:09:40.640 --> 1:09:44.320 they ultimately split in twenty thirteen. He's talked openly about 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:47.479 how her one million dollar per episode's success on Friends 1:09:47.520 --> 1:09:51.840 affected their relationship. Random Casting notes Leev Schreiber got twenty 1:09:51.880 --> 1:09:54.160 thousand dollars for a role given to him by Bob 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:56.480 Weinstein in an unrelated meeting. 1:09:57.040 --> 1:09:57.360 So. 1:09:59.000 --> 1:10:02.080 Bully for him. One of the franchise's best jokes is 1:10:02.080 --> 1:10:05.799 that the wrongfully arrested character Schreiber plays is named Cotton Weary, 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:08.800 and then he later parlays his notoriety into a news 1:10:08.800 --> 1:10:13.639 show called one hundred percent Cotton God. Yeah, I waited 1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:16.719 for that one to hit. Henry Wrinkler is the school principal. 1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:19.960 Westbraven also stuck Suck in Linda Blair as a reporter 1:10:20.080 --> 1:10:22.320 he'd worked with her on the TV movie Stranger in 1:10:22.320 --> 1:10:24.400 My House in nineteen seventy eight. He also makes a 1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:27.960 cameo himself, dresses in Freddy Krueger's outfit as the high 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:32.160 school janitor, staring right at the camera I believe. And 1:10:32.439 --> 1:10:34.880 he also cast a guy in the original Nightmare on 1:10:34.920 --> 1:10:38.479 Elmstreet who played a cop as the Woodsboro Sheriff, which 1:10:38.520 --> 1:10:41.559 I just love. So now onto the voice of the 1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:46.080 film's Killer Killers spoiler the movie is almost thirty years old, 1:10:46.560 --> 1:10:50.679 Roger L. Jackson. Sensibly the characters throughout this entire franchise 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.320 have used the same model of voice modulator to disguise 1:10:53.360 --> 1:10:58.160 their voices, but it's always been Roger L. Jackson in 1:10:58.280 --> 1:11:01.559 every single Scream. He was also the voice of Mojo 1:11:01.760 --> 1:11:06.720 Jojo on Powerpuff Girls, which is funny Ojo Jojo. The 1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:09.639 role that led Jackson to Scream was actually Tim Burton's 1:11:09.680 --> 1:11:12.799 Mars Attacks, which he provided the voice of the alien 1:11:12.920 --> 1:11:16.280 translator device, So I guess something about that guy's voice 1:11:16.320 --> 1:11:22.000 just screams mechanically modulated. He auditioned for Scream with Drew 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.519 Barrymore because she wanted a real actor to play against, 1:11:24.560 --> 1:11:27.679 not some pa blankly reading lines, He told the ringer 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:29.439 I was working as a voice actor living in San 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:31.280 Francisco and went in for the audition with a lot 1:11:31.320 --> 1:11:34.040 of other people. The audition script was the first scene 1:11:34.040 --> 1:11:36.200 from the film The Opener. I heard some of the 1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:38.280 other people in the waiting room saying, my agent says, 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:41.040 they're looking for new Freddy Krueger because this was Dimension 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:44.200 and Wes Craven. But in reading over the scene, I thought, 1:11:44.320 --> 1:11:46.880 this is not Freddy Krueger. This is subtle, he would 1:11:46.880 --> 1:11:49.559 continue device. I knew it had to be a sexy 1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:51.920 voice and something interesting enough to keep the girl on 1:11:51.960 --> 1:11:54.280 the phone, even though she clearly. 1:11:53.960 --> 1:11:57.519 Wants to hang up. He sounds interesting. There's this texture 1:11:57.560 --> 1:12:00.880 and erotic color to his voice. It's like a cat 1:12:01.000 --> 1:12:03.679 that seems sweet and playful, and then all of a sudden, 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:06.599 the Paul comes down onto the mouse's tail. I wanted 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:09.040 the voice to change color as ghost Face goes in 1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:13.040 for the kill, sort of like a cat does. Okay, 1:12:13.479 --> 1:12:14.040 he thought. 1:12:13.880 --> 1:12:14.559 A lot about it. 1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:19.680 Yeah, yeah, and it gets even more troubling. Jackson was 1:12:19.760 --> 1:12:21.960 kept isolated from the cast, but he always did his 1:12:22.000 --> 1:12:25.320 scenes live, which meant that the actors literally knew someone 1:12:25.479 --> 1:12:27.600 was watching them as they talked, but they didn't know 1:12:27.680 --> 1:12:32.439 who or presumably where. Jackson said that Craven gave him 1:12:32.479 --> 1:12:35.400 some room to adapt the lines, something that he remembers 1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:41.120 with alarming relish. He would say, he'd let me improvise 1:12:41.200 --> 1:12:43.519 so I could be really creative. I remember I said 1:12:43.560 --> 1:12:46.000 something not in the script, like have you ever felt 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:48.840 a knife cut through human flesh and scraped the bone underneath? 1:12:49.120 --> 1:12:52.960 I read that like the guy from Airplane. You ever 1:12:52.960 --> 1:12:55.800 been in a Turkish bath? Johnny? Have you ever felt 1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:57.639 a knife cut through human flesh and scrape the bone 1:12:57.680 --> 1:13:02.800 underneath Johnny? Like Gladiator movies? Yeah. Another one I was 1:13:02.840 --> 1:13:04.519 proud of was when I told nev that I would 1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:07.840 cut out her eyelids so she couldn't blink while I stabbed. 1:13:07.439 --> 1:13:07.960 Her to death. 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:13.439 Wow. Okay uh. Later, Jackson tells the vice interviewer, if 1:13:13.479 --> 1:13:16.200 I ever kill someone, I just want to kill them 1:13:16.200 --> 1:13:21.880 as me, not ghost face. Let's let's pick that apart. 1:13:22.640 --> 1:13:24.920 I just want to be seen as as the killer 1:13:24.960 --> 1:13:25.479 inside me. 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:28.240 Now. He was prompted this. They were like, do you 1:13:28.280 --> 1:13:30.240 ever call anyone up and randomly with the like prank 1:13:30.280 --> 1:13:32.400 call people with a ghost face voice? He was like no, 1:13:32.760 --> 1:13:38.080 and then he said that creepy thing. I mean, I 1:13:38.120 --> 1:13:42.200 guess he's doing a bit, but like, I don't know. Man, 1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:46.519 he's like, just look at not the judge of book 1:13:46.520 --> 1:13:47.080 byites cover. 1:13:47.200 --> 1:13:52.640 But you know, let's see, I was not what I 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:59.360 expected this man to look like. Wow, okay, yeah, yeah yeah. Well. 1:13:59.439 --> 1:14:02.280 Production for production for Scream was largely set the quaint 1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:05.639 little wine country town of Santa Rosa. Our former coworker 1:14:05.680 --> 1:14:08.479 Ben Trivett, who does listened to this podcast, also lives there. 1:14:09.040 --> 1:14:12.080 It's a harrow fifty miles from San Francisco. The town 1:14:12.160 --> 1:14:15.240 was not unacquainted with Hollywood movies like Peggy Sue Got 1:14:15.240 --> 1:14:17.679 Married and Inventing the Abbots were shot at its high school, 1:14:17.760 --> 1:14:19.720 while the city itself has served as a backdrop for 1:14:19.760 --> 1:14:22.639 everything from Alfred Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt to Stop 1:14:23.000 --> 1:14:26.720 or my moum will Shoot Hitchcook Love Northern California. Yeah, 1:14:26.800 --> 1:14:29.480 wonder why it's gorgeous? 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:30.680 I mean I didn't mean it like that. 1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:34.200 No, Birds is uh, Birds's Bodega Bay and budget and 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:37.679 you know, obviously offerdigo of San Francisco, so oh it's cool. 1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:41.400 Scream production wanted to use Santa Ros's High School as well, 1:14:41.800 --> 1:14:43.640 and claimed that they got a verbal agreement from the 1:14:43.640 --> 1:14:47.160 principal which they based their shooting schedule around, but they 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:50.040 never actually made it there. First, the city claimed that 1:14:50.080 --> 1:14:52.639 the crew hadn't fired the proper paperwork, and even after 1:14:52.680 --> 1:14:55.360 that had been resolved, the school reneged on its supposed offer, 1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:59.400 saying it conflicted with final exams. In the film's DVD commentary, 1:14:59.479 --> 1:15:01.599 Wes Craven says, there was actually Rose McGown and Nev 1:15:01.640 --> 1:15:04.559 Campbell's dialogue about twenty minutes in that caused the district 1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:06.519 to bulk And. 1:15:06.560 --> 1:15:08.040 What was that? Was? I just all about life. 1:15:08.040 --> 1:15:09.920 It's like their interest scene where they're bantering back and 1:15:10.000 --> 1:15:11.400 forth about good. 1:15:11.320 --> 1:15:13.120 Stand next to me in English class? Well, she did 1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:13.439 not in the. 1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:16.120 Mood yeah, I guts and stuff. The movie was really 1:15:16.160 --> 1:15:19.120 how do you gut someone? The movie was relocated to 1:15:19.160 --> 1:15:23.600 the Sonoma Community Center and entire scenes, huge swaths of 1:15:23.640 --> 1:15:27.280 the movie, because this was set in high school, were 1:15:27.280 --> 1:15:30.800 rewritten to accommodate the switch. As we get to later, 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:33.439 Craven was already at odds with the Weinstein's about budget 1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:37.480 and production matters, so the extra expenses were deeply unappreciated. 1:15:38.040 --> 1:15:40.719 On the DVD commentary, he estimates that the move cost 1:15:40.760 --> 1:15:45.800 production about three hundred and fifty thousand dollars, so in 1:15:45.840 --> 1:15:47.439 the end credits of the film you can see a 1:15:47.520 --> 1:15:50.880 very pointed message no thanks whatsoever to the Santa Rosa 1:15:50.920 --> 1:15:55.320 City School District governing board. Supposedly, Craven took this grudge 1:15:55.439 --> 1:16:00.479 further off screen and started a never confirmed publicly boycott 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:03.719 of Santa Rosa and Sonoma County. I was a producer 1:16:03.800 --> 1:16:06.439 named Daniel Ferrins who is actually a graduate of Santa 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:09.920 Rosa High told Horror dot Com in twenty eleven, Santa 1:16:10.000 --> 1:16:12.679 Rosa is very high in the Hollywood Blacklist of places 1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:16.599 not to take your productions, But Hollywood Reporter journalist Dana 1:16:16.640 --> 1:16:19.880 Harris contradicted that to the Sonoma County Independent in nineteen 1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:23.080 ninety nine, saying the idea of there being a blacklist 1:16:23.120 --> 1:16:26.519 against a particular county is ridiculous. It's a complex industry 1:16:26.560 --> 1:16:29.080 and annoying things happen all the time. When a community 1:16:29.080 --> 1:16:31.519 does something unfriendly. There may be some gossip or something 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:33.439 for the short term, and it might stop some people 1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:36.120 from filming there. But believe me, there isn't some master 1:16:36.160 --> 1:16:39.280 puppeteer distributing blacklists and dictating where people can go to 1:16:39.320 --> 1:16:43.520 make their films, which I say not true, and if true, 1:16:43.720 --> 1:16:44.240 a bummer. 1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:49.040 Anyway. Because of the relative isolation of northern California from Hollywood, 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:52.559 the cast bonded easily during the shoot. They had fond 1:16:52.600 --> 1:16:56.040 memories of staying at the Double Tree Hotel, mostly because 1:16:56.080 --> 1:16:59.439 they had fresh baked cookies daily. This whole anecdote's very 1:16:59.520 --> 1:17:02.120 meee code. Every day they give you a fresh cookie, 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:05.559 Jamie Kennedy said, And I know it sounds stupid, but 1:17:05.640 --> 1:17:08.000 it was just so good. Every day. I felt like 1:17:08.040 --> 1:17:10.479 I had a little treat. If I did a good scene, 1:17:10.760 --> 1:17:14.000 I'd eat my cookie. Presumably if he did a bad scene, 1:17:14.040 --> 1:17:18.040 he would also eat his cookie. Cookies were eating. Shooting 1:17:18.040 --> 1:17:20.479 mostly at night. The cast blacked out their windows because 1:17:20.520 --> 1:17:23.880 they'd come back at six am and quote unwined, which 1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:28.519 you speculate mostly meant drinking. David Arquette had a bar 1:17:28.640 --> 1:17:31.640 installed in his room, which I'm very impressed by. The 1:17:31.720 --> 1:17:35.519 setup included black lights and lava lamps. He seems like 1:17:35.560 --> 1:17:38.280 he just bought out the entire contents of a spencer gifts. 1:17:38.760 --> 1:17:40.280 No, he said, I didn't put this in, but he 1:17:40.280 --> 1:17:44.200 said he went to every local headshop. Nah to a 1:17:44.200 --> 1:17:48.280 mass this collection nev Campbell. Remember, David is nuts, so 1:17:48.360 --> 1:17:50.559 he bought every toy possible that you can buy in 1:17:50.600 --> 1:17:52.960 Santa Rosa and they were all hanging from his ceiling. 1:17:53.360 --> 1:17:56.200 I think it was called David's Bar, David's Club or something. 1:17:57.600 --> 1:17:59.599 The cast and crew also had lots of parking lot 1:17:59.640 --> 1:18:03.799 party and even bonfire at one point. Skeet Ulrich told Vulture, 1:18:04.160 --> 1:18:06.559 we did feel like a group of outcasts that came together, 1:18:06.960 --> 1:18:09.320 you know, six am, getting off work and we're rolling 1:18:09.320 --> 1:18:12.120 into the hotel half caked and sticky syrup and blood 1:18:12.120 --> 1:18:14.040 as people are rolling out to go to their wine 1:18:14.040 --> 1:18:16.320 tours and Napa Valley. We must have looked like the 1:18:16.320 --> 1:18:19.679 most insane group of people in this hotel complex. It's 1:18:19.720 --> 1:18:21.920 not every film that you get to do that. Less 1:18:21.920 --> 1:18:24.479 and less now as we get distracted by so many things. 1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:27.960 It was really an incredible time. He made this very 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:31.960 interesting comment that like pre smartphones and pre eternal Internet, 1:18:32.040 --> 1:18:35.479 like people bonded on film shoots so much more because 1:18:35.520 --> 1:18:38.880 you were there was downtime where you would hang out 1:18:38.920 --> 1:18:41.679 and you didn't just he said. He said, nowadays everybody 1:18:41.720 --> 1:18:46.360 just everyone just disappears into their phone. That's sad. 1:18:46.520 --> 1:18:50.040 Yeah, it reminds me of the story of the Robie 1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:54.519 Williams Crinkly eyed school movie The Cider House Dead Poets Society. 1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:56.120 There is, writes to me, the story from the Dead 1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:58.840 Poets Society where all the boys were getting up to 1:18:58.920 --> 1:18:59.960 high jinks in the hotel. 1:19:00.760 --> 1:19:02.960 Yeah, that's what everyone says. One of the other things 1:19:03.080 --> 1:19:05.800 quotes about this was like people talk about, like I 1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:08.080 hate shooting in La because in La you just everyone 1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:10.599 goes back to the formats, But shooting on location, you're 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:13.040 usually all in one hotel or together, he said. They also, 1:19:13.520 --> 1:19:17.320 the thing that comes up constantly is it's like summer camp. 1:19:19.240 --> 1:19:21.320 They can stand by me. They said that too. They 1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:23.519 would do like theater, games and the rooms and stuff. 1:19:23.720 --> 1:19:25.960 I mean same with Karate Kid, all the all the gang, 1:19:26.080 --> 1:19:30.000 all the bullies were like ripping dirt bikes around like 1:19:30.400 --> 1:19:31.400 a ripro in time. 1:19:33.720 --> 1:19:35.960 We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:38.599 back with more. Too much information and just a moment. 1:19:56.479 --> 1:19:58.640 I wanted to do a roundup of quotes about how 1:19:58.760 --> 1:20:00.759 nice Wes Craven was, but they're there are too many, 1:20:00.840 --> 1:20:03.320 and we would be here for days. Jamie Kenned who 1:20:03.320 --> 1:20:06.439 described him as a tenured Berkeley professor, But he had 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:09.000 a sense of humor about what he was doing. He 1:20:09.080 --> 1:20:12.360 once told Courtney Cox, who asked him for direction, Courtney, 1:20:12.400 --> 1:20:14.559 what do you think that I've been there? I don't 1:20:14.560 --> 1:20:16.439 know what it feels like to be chased by a knife. 1:20:17.200 --> 1:20:20.360 Apparently he was a bird watcher as well. Kevin Williamson 1:20:20.360 --> 1:20:22.040 said he would sit in his chair, he would be 1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:24.880 doing a crossword puzzle and reading about birds, and then 1:20:24.880 --> 1:20:28.639 he would just go action and become somebody else. Virtually 1:20:28.720 --> 1:20:31.280 every actor has multiple quotes about how safe and comfortable 1:20:31.280 --> 1:20:33.599 he made them feel in the set shooting this harrowing stuff. 1:20:34.120 --> 1:20:36.879 Arquette it did have one hilarious quote in the Hollywood 1:20:36.880 --> 1:20:39.439 Reporter Oral History. When you do a take and it 1:20:39.439 --> 1:20:42.759 wasn't what Wes wanted, he'd say, well, David, that's terrible. 1:20:43.080 --> 1:20:48.000 That was absolutely unusable. He laughs. But he says he 1:20:48.000 --> 1:20:49.760 had a way of giving direction to an actor that 1:20:49.800 --> 1:20:51.960 doesn't make them feel like they failed, and it almost 1:20:52.000 --> 1:20:54.120 lifts their spirit up so that in the next take 1:20:54.120 --> 1:20:55.960 you can do it again and have more fun with it, 1:20:56.400 --> 1:20:59.720 faster better and more blood. He'd say it like that. 1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:04.200 Speaking of harrowing the film's opening scene, My God, Kevin 1:21:04.240 --> 1:21:07.080 Williamson described the house as out in the middle of nowhere. 1:21:07.479 --> 1:21:09.679 What was interesting is that there were just two houses 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:12.120 in these huge fields, and our base camp was at 1:21:12.160 --> 1:21:16.120 the other house where they shot Kujo. That's so great, 1:21:17.360 --> 1:21:19.840 Drew Barrymore said. The scene took five days of night 1:21:19.880 --> 1:21:22.400 shoots to capture. We started on a Monday night and 1:21:22.439 --> 1:21:24.280 we ended on a Friday night at like five in 1:21:24.320 --> 1:21:30.160 the morning. So Saturday morning, okay, is a feeding and 1:21:30.160 --> 1:21:34.800 gremlin after me tonight, I've gun cross that it was 1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:36.880 more or less shot in sequence. And when Barrymore and 1:21:36.920 --> 1:21:39.000 Craven sat down and plotted out, they came up with 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:42.120 an interesting strategy to coax real tears out of Barrymore. 1:21:42.479 --> 1:21:44.439 She told ew we couldn't have been more on the 1:21:44.439 --> 1:21:47.200 same page. I was like, I never want faked tears. 1:21:47.640 --> 1:21:49.799 I will come up with a mechanism that will actually 1:21:49.800 --> 1:21:52.840 make me cry. I will run around until I'm hyperventilating. 1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:55.479 He and I had this secret story. We would just 1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:57.519 talk about it every time because it made me cry 1:21:57.560 --> 1:22:00.000 every time I thought about it. That worked for tears. 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:02.720 It didn't work for hyperventilating. I would still have to 1:22:02.800 --> 1:22:05.920 run around a lot. Craven narrowed down this allegedly secret 1:22:05.960 --> 1:22:08.200 story for the DVD commentary. He said, the night before 1:22:08.240 --> 1:22:10.759 we started shooting the scene, she told me a horrible 1:22:10.800 --> 1:22:13.679 story about a newspaper article of a dog being burned 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:16.439 by its owner set on fire. And he started crying 1:22:16.520 --> 1:22:18.639 as she was telling this to me. So every time 1:22:18.680 --> 1:22:21.080 I needed to get her over that edge into complete tears, 1:22:21.280 --> 1:22:25.040 I would just say, Drew, I'm lighting the lighter God, 1:22:25.800 --> 1:22:28.080 and then she would burst into tears. 1:22:28.720 --> 1:22:30.639 It was like the most Drew Berry Moore. Yeah, yes 1:22:30.680 --> 1:22:30.920 it is. 1:22:32.720 --> 1:22:35.360 For the scene. Roger L. Jackson, the voice of ghost Face, 1:22:35.439 --> 1:22:38.160 explained that he was outside one of the windows, crouching 1:22:38.160 --> 1:22:41.080 in the shadows and taking shelter into a canopy because 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:43.720 it was raining outside. I was watching Drew through the 1:22:43.760 --> 1:22:45.840 window while I was on the cell phone, and I 1:22:45.880 --> 1:22:48.880 was completely miked up. It was a live conversation. My 1:22:49.000 --> 1:22:50.960 view is what the killer would have seen. It was 1:22:51.040 --> 1:22:54.040 genius and pretty horrifying. 1:22:54.760 --> 1:22:58.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:22:59.439 --> 1:23:02.160 Craven is apparently in the killer's custum at one point, 1:23:02.240 --> 1:23:05.240 specifically when Barrymore throws the phone at him? Is that 1:23:05.280 --> 1:23:06.479 his territorial forest? 1:23:06.520 --> 1:23:09.880 Think about phone throws in this movie. Man. The other 1:23:09.880 --> 1:23:11.720 thing that's funny is he talked about how they like 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:14.600 the whole running bit in these movies is whoever is 1:23:14.640 --> 1:23:17.639 in the assumes the ghost face Mantle becomes like an 1:23:17.640 --> 1:23:21.240 immediate klutz and it's like tripping and falling all the time. 1:23:21.680 --> 1:23:24.480 And they said that that was like so precisely choreographed 1:23:24.520 --> 1:23:27.160 because they had to walk this fine line of like, 1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:29.479 he's obviously a guy with a knife trying to kill 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.200 teenage girls, but also it is funny when you throw 1:23:32.200 --> 1:23:35.160 a lamp or something at him and he does a pratfall. 1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:42.439 There's also an incredible deep cut pause for applause Halloween reference. 1:23:42.800 --> 1:23:45.920 In that opening scene, the character's father tells her mother 1:23:46.040 --> 1:23:49.519 to drive down to the Mackenzies, which is what Jamie 1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:51.800 Lee Curtis tells the kids that she's babysitting in the 1:23:51.840 --> 1:23:54.360 original film. She doesn't tell them drive, she says, go 1:23:54.439 --> 1:23:58.639 down to the Mackenzie's. But man, that is a deep cut. 1:23:58.840 --> 1:23:59.920 I got a deep cut too. 1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:03.799 Ready. When Henry Winkler opens his closet in his office 1:24:03.840 --> 1:24:07.040 to try on the screen mask, before the ghost face mask, 1:24:07.080 --> 1:24:10.400 before he gets killed. You see his black leather fawnsie 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:14.080 jacket from Happy Days Hang in the closet. Well, it's beautiful. 1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:17.080 Despite the good vibes on the set, this being a 1:24:17.080 --> 1:24:22.439 Weinstein production, they were predictably being giant soles. This was 1:24:22.520 --> 1:24:24.800 largely a Bob move, So we don't have as much 1:24:25.360 --> 1:24:28.879 horrific sexual violence, but we just have the ordinary cruelty 1:24:28.920 --> 1:24:32.719 of men with money towards artists. Bob hated the early 1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:35.559 rushes that he was seeing and started calling supervising producer 1:24:35.640 --> 1:24:39.800 Kathy Conrad, who, as I mentioned earlier, I love nitpicking 1:24:39.840 --> 1:24:43.920 details like barrymore sweater grossly saying things like shouldn't it 1:24:43.920 --> 1:24:47.519 be racier? And her Wig. Much of the cast and 1:24:47.600 --> 1:24:50.479 crew also recall an incident where Bob called Kathy Conrad 1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:53.960 and asked for Wes Craven, literally interrupting a shot. As 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:56.800 she told Vanity Fair, Bob told him he thought Wes 1:24:56.840 --> 1:24:59.519 could do better. Wes said to me, what kind of 1:24:59.520 --> 1:25:01.439 a studio head calls a filmmaker in the middle of 1:25:01.479 --> 1:25:03.519 shooting and kicks him in the balls and expects him 1:25:03.560 --> 1:25:05.040 to work the rest of the day and do good 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:09.200 work and researching this. It was so much meaner than that, 1:25:10.040 --> 1:25:13.000 The film's editor Patrick Lucier told the Ringer. Wes was 1:25:13.120 --> 1:25:15.960 very despondent a few days in when he was just like, Oh, 1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:19.280 the studio called up. They're very upset. They don't think 1:25:19.320 --> 1:25:21.559 it's going to be good, he said. They told him 1:25:21.560 --> 1:25:25.320 he was a TV journeyman and a hack. Executive producer 1:25:25.320 --> 1:25:28.960 Mary and Matdelena told THHR Bob actually said the shooting 1:25:29.080 --> 1:25:30.679 was workmanlike at best. 1:25:31.160 --> 1:25:33.840 Wow, wasn't it kind of a legend at this point? 1:25:34.000 --> 1:25:35.840 Like yes, he was, dude. 1:25:36.640 --> 1:25:37.320 Ah. 1:25:37.640 --> 1:25:41.839 Twenty minutes after that phone call, Bob called again, complaining 1:25:41.840 --> 1:25:44.800 about the killer's mask. Conrad called him on it, this 1:25:44.840 --> 1:25:47.679 time saying, you're the president of the studio. We sent 1:25:47.720 --> 1:25:50.400 you sketches of the mask. Then a few hours later 1:25:50.479 --> 1:25:54.559 she got another phone call. Bob wants Wes to continue filming, 1:25:54.680 --> 1:25:58.200 shooting each scene with four different masks until he can 1:25:58.240 --> 1:25:59.679 decide which one he wants. 1:26:00.040 --> 1:26:03.800 That's the most studio executive thing, most like higher level 1:26:03.800 --> 1:26:07.640 boss like thing i've ever heard monsters. More work for 1:26:07.720 --> 1:26:09.639 you until I make a decision that I could make 1:26:09.720 --> 1:26:11.519 right now but won't. Yeah. 1:26:11.960 --> 1:26:16.120 Dimension Studios head Carrie grinnat yes said his name, and 1:26:16.160 --> 1:26:18.680 not a typo of carry. Grant did in fact come 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:22.560 out there and held a midnight meeting in Craven's hotel room. 1:26:22.880 --> 1:26:25.519 This is where Mike I just loved this woman. Thinking 1:26:25.560 --> 1:26:29.120 that they were about to fire Craven, Kathy Conrad unloaded 1:26:29.320 --> 1:26:31.920 on the head of the studio. Who the first do 1:26:32.000 --> 1:26:34.200 you think you're talking to? You hired a guy who 1:26:34.200 --> 1:26:36.760 created the genre, basically, and you're telling him how to 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:39.519 make the movie. This guy's made thirty some odd movies. 1:26:39.680 --> 1:26:41.479 This is the most insulting thing I've ever seen in 1:26:41.520 --> 1:26:45.599 my entire life. Love it. Essentially, they reached a bargain 1:26:45.600 --> 1:26:48.519 where production would cut together just the opening scene and 1:26:48.560 --> 1:26:51.679 send it to New York for the Weinsteins. When this happened, 1:26:51.840 --> 1:26:54.920 Conrad monitored the situation in real time on a call 1:26:55.000 --> 1:26:57.800 with an assistant to the Weinsteins. The footage is in 1:26:57.840 --> 1:26:59.760 the office. The footage is on its way down to 1:26:59.800 --> 1:27:02.519 the screening room. The footage has reached the projection booth. 1:27:02.760 --> 1:27:05.400 The footage is being threaded. Bob is on his way down. 1:27:05.640 --> 1:27:08.360 Harvey is now with Bob. They're both seated. The lights 1:27:08.400 --> 1:27:12.599 have gone out. They're starting, I'll call you back anyway. 1:27:12.640 --> 1:27:15.599 Bob called her ten minutes later. It was over the moon. 1:27:15.800 --> 1:27:18.479 I think he said. Harvey was levitating for the theater, 1:27:18.640 --> 1:27:20.960 which may have been to drugs. 1:27:21.600 --> 1:27:23.759 May have been the Flay show he received during the screening. 1:27:26.240 --> 1:27:29.760 But I guess to his credit that too far for you? 1:27:29.960 --> 1:27:31.720 How was that too far for you? 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:35.240 I mean, you know, it's gross when other people would 1:27:35.280 --> 1:27:39.000 be Bob is just a person, but it's gross with 1:27:39.280 --> 1:27:41.800 the knowledge that that probably happened at some point or 1:27:41.840 --> 1:27:45.439 Bob knew about it and was like, yeah, okay. So 1:27:45.479 --> 1:27:48.040 Bob called Conrad back ten minutes later, just over the moon. 1:27:48.280 --> 1:27:51.519 He apologized, and he said production told them you can 1:27:51.520 --> 1:27:53.920 do whatever you want. There's a quote that was like 1:27:54.800 --> 1:27:56.720 the only person that could do what they wanted at 1:27:56.720 --> 1:28:00.040 Merrimx was Quentin Tarantino because of pulp fiction. But it 1:28:00.720 --> 1:28:03.080 is really gross how everyone at that studio was just like, 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:06.679 these men are unabashed monsters, Like who's that Broadway producer 1:28:06.680 --> 1:28:08.840 who like Scott Scot a. 1:28:08.800 --> 1:28:10.439 Friend who were for Scott Rudin And then yeah, it 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:11.799 was known at the time. 1:28:11.920 --> 1:28:15.920 These are terrible, terrible human beings like and then and 1:28:15.960 --> 1:28:18.559 then and then it was just an open secret that 1:28:18.600 --> 1:28:21.360 one of them was a horrifying sexual predator. What a 1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:23.639 nightmare industry movie magic. 1:28:24.000 --> 1:28:26.240 It is weird, and I don't know how much of 1:28:26.280 --> 1:28:28.519 this I'll keep, but like, yeah, I mean I had 1:28:28.640 --> 1:28:30.360 a really good friend who who worked for him and 1:28:30.479 --> 1:28:31.800 was like, yeah, when that ex was a came It 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:34.960 wasn't like all of a sudden like wait, you two 1:28:35.120 --> 1:28:37.559 you too know this on It was like yeah, everybody knew. 1:28:37.800 --> 1:28:39.479 It was just it was even thirty Rocks. 1:28:39.520 --> 1:28:42.240 Yeah, it was another thirty Rock joke where Jenna Moroney 1:28:42.320 --> 1:28:44.960 says something like she says something you remain the person 1:28:45.000 --> 1:28:47.559 who you were in certain situations. In many ways, I'm 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:49.680 still trapped under passed out Harvey Weinstein at a Meer 1:28:49.720 --> 1:28:53.000 Max Christmas party. Oh god, that was a line in 1:28:53.080 --> 1:28:56.639 network television. Everyone was just like, who, well, it's funny, 1:28:56.720 --> 1:28:58.160 creepy Harvey, It's funny. 1:28:58.320 --> 1:29:01.560 It is the whole like notion of open secrets, you know. 1:29:01.600 --> 1:29:03.320 I mean, I remember hearing stuff about the Louis c 1:29:03.439 --> 1:29:07.160 k thing for years, and you know, and now there's 1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:10.880 this one comedian who's become a very big deal with 1:29:11.000 --> 1:29:14.920 a a show that's like basically like a like a 1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:17.200 one man show kind of deal that's supposed to be 1:29:17.400 --> 1:29:20.639 you know, first person. And I'm hearing from all kinds 1:29:20.680 --> 1:29:24.320 of multiple sources that he made it all up. It's 1:29:24.400 --> 1:29:27.479 presented as like a first person like an authentic thing, 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:30.960 and it's a very deeply emotional forum. And it's of 1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:33.920 course widely believe that it's been completely made up. And 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:36.080 he's won like all these awards for it and stuff, 1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:42.400 and now he's getting cast in like extremely high profile. Like, Yeah, 1:29:42.479 --> 1:29:45.960 it's weird. It's weird when there's just like too much 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.800 money riding on stuff for people to speak out. It's 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:57.480 bizarre sad anyway, speaking of masks, ooh right. 1:29:57.720 --> 1:29:58.719 And the ones we wear. 1:29:58.880 --> 1:30:03.439 Yes, yes, the ghost face mask truly horrifying, like really 1:30:03.479 --> 1:30:04.400 deeply unsettling. 1:30:04.560 --> 1:30:07.000 Yeah, it was great. Like I said, I remember seeing 1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:10.760 it just on the streets of New Cumberland, Pennsylvania and 1:30:10.840 --> 1:30:12.000 just being like, ah. 1:30:12.479 --> 1:30:14.280 I think that's what's so Like if you see it 1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:16.040 in New York, it's kind of not that scary, but 1:30:16.120 --> 1:30:19.240 seeing it in like the suburbs, there is a creepiness 1:30:19.280 --> 1:30:20.960 to it. I can't explain why. 1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:23.360 I mean, it gets at the clown thing yess like 1:30:23.479 --> 1:30:26.719 deranged in the sort of clown way. And obviously everyone's 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:29.400 seen the Edward Moons painting at some point in their life. 1:30:29.400 --> 1:30:31.160 But you know, it just kind of goes back to 1:30:31.200 --> 1:30:32.880 the Michael Myers thing, which is like, what is the 1:30:32.920 --> 1:30:37.000 scariest thing in the world A white man, you know, 1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:41.400 just a white face that signals danger for a whole 1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:43.759 gender and several races. 1:30:44.920 --> 1:30:47.000 You know, I read somewhere on some listical thing and 1:30:47.320 --> 1:30:50.040 I couldn't like totally source it, but they wanted his 1:30:50.280 --> 1:30:54.000 like cape drapy thing to be white, but it looked 1:30:54.080 --> 1:31:00.760 a little too clanny, Yeah, so they changed that. The 1:31:00.840 --> 1:31:03.920 mask is not explicitly described in the script, and much 1:31:04.040 --> 1:31:07.920 like the iconically terrible William Shatner mask that they gave 1:31:07.960 --> 1:31:12.639 Michael Myers, this was just a standard Halloween mask that, 1:31:12.680 --> 1:31:17.400 as you mentioned, was inspired by Edward Munch's painting The 1:31:17.439 --> 1:31:22.200 Scream and a whole lineage of cartoonishly distorted faces that 1:31:22.280 --> 1:31:25.080 took its cues from it cover of King Crimsons in 1:31:25.080 --> 1:31:27.240 the Court of the Crimson King and Pink Floyd's The 1:31:27.240 --> 1:31:30.880 Wall for Starters. The ghost Face mask was designed in 1:31:30.960 --> 1:31:33.439 nineteen ninety one as part of the Fun World company's 1:31:33.600 --> 1:31:37.960 Fantastic Faces product line and was found by Kevin Williamson 1:31:38.000 --> 1:31:41.120 and executive producer Mary and Madelena while location scouting. 1:31:42.680 --> 1:31:44.800 Just in a room, just in a kid's room. They said, 1:31:45.360 --> 1:31:45.920 we took. 1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:48.120 That to production and said, riff on this, make something 1:31:48.200 --> 1:31:50.520 like this, And they must have done twenty different designs. 1:31:51.520 --> 1:31:53.800 But while fun World legally owned the design, it was 1:31:53.800 --> 1:31:56.960 a team effort from a group of talented artists. Lauren 1:31:57.000 --> 1:31:59.559 Griffins was a special effects makeup artist working in Los 1:31:59.600 --> 1:32:03.600 Angeles Tony Gardner's Altyrian Studios and recall the fangoria, the 1:32:03.640 --> 1:32:06.439 Halloween tradition amongst the special effects community, which was to 1:32:06.520 --> 1:32:08.880 throw a party to show off their stuff. I love that. 1:32:08.880 --> 1:32:11.599 That's really cute, Griffith said. My costume idea was an 1:32:11.600 --> 1:32:14.240 advanced take on the classic Halloween costume of a bed 1:32:14.240 --> 1:32:17.400 sheet with eyeholes for a ghost, which integrated a formed 1:32:17.680 --> 1:32:21.320 buckram ghost face mask with a long jaw. Buckram is 1:32:21.320 --> 1:32:25.120 a kind of stiff fabric. Tony Gardner told the magazine 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:27.559 that during the slow period for movie work, the company 1:32:27.560 --> 1:32:30.080 decided to make a collection of Halloween masks and self 1:32:30.160 --> 1:32:34.400 market them, buying an ad in the back of Fangoria magazine. 1:32:35.120 --> 1:32:37.479 It is really amazing, like this article, like you can 1:32:37.520 --> 1:32:39.960 go in line because Fangoria has these tremendous arcads that 1:32:39.960 --> 1:32:43.120 were literally just all in fiocabinets in like New York, 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:45.120 in one office, so they have so much of it, 1:32:45.360 --> 1:32:48.880 all of it digitized. That's but you can go back 1:32:48.920 --> 1:32:51.280 and see like these one ads and it is just 1:32:51.320 --> 1:32:55.320 a ghost face mask. It's like literally the goddamn ghost 1:32:55.360 --> 1:32:58.320 face mask. And this is why this next wort pisses 1:32:58.360 --> 1:32:58.720 me off. 1:32:58.880 --> 1:33:01.880 Oh here you you do this them. 1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:06.400 So in nineteen ninety one, Gitterns and this fellow artist 1:33:06.479 --> 1:33:10.080 at this company, Altierian Jim Usterman, drove cross country to 1:33:10.120 --> 1:33:13.640 the annual Halloween Trade Show in Chicago, which is the 1:33:13.800 --> 1:33:16.240 largest event of its kind in the US, to promote 1:33:16.280 --> 1:33:20.519 their line of masks. Within months of that show, this 1:33:20.640 --> 1:33:24.799 company called fun World had a brand new in house designer. 1:33:24.840 --> 1:33:29.280 Her name is Brigitte Slairton Leeden. Slairton Leiden, her name 1:33:29.320 --> 1:33:33.040 is Brigitte Slairton Leiden, and they just told her to 1:33:33.200 --> 1:33:39.040 copy the Altyrian designs. She explicitly told Fangoria I was 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:42.400 given a picture of something similar to what the finished 1:33:42.479 --> 1:33:45.560 masks would eventually look like, and was asked if I 1:33:45.600 --> 1:33:47.840 thought these could be made as masks and do some 1:33:47.960 --> 1:33:51.160 drawings with a similar look and feel. So I did 1:33:51.160 --> 1:33:53.679 a bunch of sketches of different faces with that same 1:33:53.800 --> 1:33:58.840 white melty face with simplistic black facial feature shapes, and 1:33:58.880 --> 1:34:01.960 in a surprise to no one familiar with Corporate America, 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:05.960 fun World's line of Fantastic faces, which included six masks, 1:34:06.240 --> 1:34:10.840 are all riffs on that original kind of design that 1:34:11.040 --> 1:34:14.360 was done by Aultrian. A year or two later, Gieterns 1:34:14.600 --> 1:34:17.160 told Fangoria, I was in a drug store and I 1:34:17.200 --> 1:34:21.120 saw fun World's mass produced knockoff versions of my whaler mask. 1:34:21.680 --> 1:34:23.920 Clearly it appeared to be a direct rendering of my 1:34:24.000 --> 1:34:27.080 original creation. I was a bit amused, but didn't pursue 1:34:27.320 --> 1:34:29.640 looking into it any further, as I had left that 1:34:29.680 --> 1:34:31.680 part of my life behind and was on too a 1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:32.200 new one. 1:34:32.360 --> 1:34:34.800 Years after that, one of the masks was found and 1:34:34.840 --> 1:34:37.400 picked for the movie, though Dementia Studios wanted to own 1:34:37.439 --> 1:34:40.200 the rights for their own design for merchandising purposes, which 1:34:40.280 --> 1:34:44.040 was smart and Special Facts House kN BFx was churning 1:34:44.040 --> 1:34:46.840 out designs left and right that weren't quite what they 1:34:46.880 --> 1:34:49.920 wanted Wes Craven stuck to his guns, and eventually they 1:34:49.920 --> 1:34:51.840 had to reach out the Fun World to license the 1:34:51.880 --> 1:34:54.400 rights for the mask. But the drama over credit for 1:34:54.439 --> 1:34:57.400 the masks design, though literally, played out in the pages 1:34:57.439 --> 1:35:02.400 of Fangoria magazine. Fangoria issue number one eighty nine from 1:35:02.439 --> 1:35:06.360 January two thousand interviewed the original fund World designer, writing 1:35:06.800 --> 1:35:10.240 the mask was actually designed by fun World employee Brigitte 1:35:12.040 --> 1:35:16.240 Swedish chef Sounds, prior to the movie's conception. Brigitte stated 1:35:16.520 --> 1:35:18.839 the idea was something I worked on with Alan Geller, 1:35:18.920 --> 1:35:21.760 the vice president of the company. Of the entire assortment, 1:35:21.960 --> 1:35:24.880 that face was the strongest one. A reader wrote in 1:35:24.920 --> 1:35:27.120 to bring up the original designers, and from then on, 1:35:27.280 --> 1:35:29.640 fun World literally wrote sleeve and Linder out of the 1:35:29.680 --> 1:35:32.479 story of the mask design. She no longer is mentioned 1:35:32.479 --> 1:35:35.040 on the site, and fun World now credits VP Alan 1:35:35.080 --> 1:35:36.639 Geller as the creator of the design. 1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:41.960 So to recap, yeah, she claimed credit in Fangoria, and 1:35:42.000 --> 1:35:45.080 a reader in Fangoria wrote in to correct the record 1:35:45.600 --> 1:35:49.080 and fun World Reddit someone at that company read it 1:35:49.520 --> 1:35:53.320 and when she's a loose cannon, we are taking her 1:35:53.320 --> 1:35:57.000 out of this narrative and they don't, so now it's 1:35:57.040 --> 1:35:58.040 just credit to the VP. 1:35:58.960 --> 1:35:59.519 That's sad. 1:35:59.640 --> 1:36:02.519 And then and all these original artists are cut out. 1:36:02.520 --> 1:36:07.000 This is the most popular Halloween costume in the US 1:36:07.160 --> 1:36:10.760 period for like decades, I'm sure, and all of these 1:36:10.880 --> 1:36:13.920 artists have been cut out of these massive profits. The 1:36:13.960 --> 1:36:16.080 owner of Vultarian Studios, Tony Gardner, said that when he 1:36:16.120 --> 1:36:18.720 first saw the movie, he was genuinely flattered that they 1:36:18.760 --> 1:36:21.519 had used our mass design. I really enjoyed the movie 1:36:21.520 --> 1:36:23.519 and thought it was a great compliment that the Whaler 1:36:23.560 --> 1:36:25.160 was up there on the big screen and such a 1:36:25.160 --> 1:36:27.639 great film. I was a bit naive at the time 1:36:27.680 --> 1:36:29.439 and assumed that since it had been years since we 1:36:29.479 --> 1:36:31.040 created the mask, there would be no way to fight 1:36:31.120 --> 1:36:33.439 for it. I also assumed that the movie was a 1:36:33.439 --> 1:36:36.360 one time deal and the ship had already sailed. But 1:36:36.439 --> 1:36:39.640 here's the thing. Fun World didn't register that or the 1:36:39.680 --> 1:36:44.080 phrase ghostface as a trademark until nineteen ninety six, so 1:36:44.120 --> 1:36:47.280 they had stolen these designs, failed to copyright them, and 1:36:47.320 --> 1:36:50.200 then filed the paperwork just as the movie was being made. 1:36:50.640 --> 1:36:53.920 Before these original artists had any notion that this was 1:36:53.960 --> 1:36:55.720 going to become one of the biggest horror movies of 1:36:55.720 --> 1:37:00.120 all time, and hilariously enough, the top banner of on 1:37:00.200 --> 1:37:04.479 World's website currently reads over fifty years of seasonal product fun, 1:37:05.080 --> 1:37:06.880 honesty and integrity. 1:37:06.960 --> 1:37:13.400 Wow eh, this has been the Heigel's moral stand of 1:37:13.439 --> 1:37:14.160 this episode. 1:37:14.840 --> 1:37:18.599 Yeah, gob on my soapbox. I take my seasonal ephemera 1:37:18.960 --> 1:37:20.400 very seriously, all right? 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:23.280 Yes, you do you love spooky season? Also? 1:37:24.120 --> 1:37:26.839 Yes, and and the sanctity of it as a pagan 1:37:27.160 --> 1:37:27.800 Celtic right. 1:37:27.920 --> 1:37:29.479 I don't think you get this up in arms about 1:37:29.520 --> 1:37:31.519 like nutcrackers or like oflf on the shelf. 1:37:32.960 --> 1:37:36.840 No, absolutely, yeah, but I will paint Celtic roots in 1:37:36.960 --> 1:37:39.000 blood in the Fun World offices. 1:37:40.479 --> 1:37:42.760 I continue going ham on Easter just because of the 1:37:42.760 --> 1:37:47.680 pagan Yeah. Yeah, still Halloween though, Yeah, oh of course. Yeah. 1:37:47.720 --> 1:37:50.320 Your birthdays, everybody, Higel's birthdays coming up? 1:37:52.720 --> 1:37:53.280 Shut up? 1:37:53.520 --> 1:37:56.040 That means Jordan's birthdays coming up? No, my birthday is 1:37:56.120 --> 1:38:00.960 until Christmas. Yeah, well your birthday is next week or two. 1:38:01.400 --> 1:38:01.840 Shut up. 1:38:01.880 --> 1:38:05.160 I'm just trying to deflect. Also read. 1:38:06.479 --> 1:38:09.360 The film's third act takes place entirely in an essentially 1:38:09.400 --> 1:38:13.479 abandoned house in Tomalas in Morin County. Population as of 1:38:13.479 --> 1:38:18.400 the twenty twenty Census one hundred and eighty seven. That's 1:38:18.479 --> 1:38:21.760 up there with the Buffalo Bill House right. The house 1:38:21.760 --> 1:38:23.719 they found had been built by a couple in nineteen 1:38:23.840 --> 1:38:26.800 ninety on thirty acres of land, and when they died 1:38:26.840 --> 1:38:29.120 within a month of each other, their children wanted nothing 1:38:29.160 --> 1:38:32.639 to do with it. That house was like five years 1:38:32.680 --> 1:38:36.280 old when they filmed that. That's terrifying. Production designer they died, 1:38:36.400 --> 1:38:37.240 They died real quick. 1:38:37.360 --> 1:38:40.000 Yeah, they built their dream house and then Super died 1:38:41.479 --> 1:38:43.640 In America. 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:47.320 Production designer Bruce Miller explained, it just doesn't make sense 1:38:47.360 --> 1:38:49.960 that in a normal American home, murders could be happening 1:38:49.960 --> 1:38:53.400 in the upstairs bedrooms and people watching television downstairs would 1:38:53.520 --> 1:38:55.439 know about it. So the house had to be big 1:38:55.520 --> 1:38:57.559 enough and the rooms had to be separated by enough 1:38:57.560 --> 1:39:00.360 distance to convince the audience that these things could really 1:39:00.360 --> 1:39:03.160 be happening without the other people knowing about it. This 1:39:03.280 --> 1:39:05.599 particular house was perfect for that because it was very 1:39:05.600 --> 1:39:08.880 convoluted and kind of Victorian on the inside. It's like 1:39:08.880 --> 1:39:10.839 the Manson murders. There was one guy in the property 1:39:10.840 --> 1:39:12.800 who was in the little guest cottage just just away 1:39:12.800 --> 1:39:15.000 from the main house, and he lived and everyone's like, 1:39:15.040 --> 1:39:16.680 you didn't you didn't hear that. You didn't hear the 1:39:17.200 --> 1:39:20.840 screaming on the lawn and and the guns, and you 1:39:20.920 --> 1:39:24.360 hear any of that? And he said no, And then 1:39:24.400 --> 1:39:26.160 they checked like the stereo. He was like, listen, I 1:39:26.200 --> 1:39:27.960 think he was listening to the doors. Actually they checked 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:31.840 his like stereo levels. And yeah, there's all sorts of 1:39:31.840 --> 1:39:34.479 stories about whether or not he actually heard nothing or 1:39:34.520 --> 1:39:36.600 if he just hid under his bed. 1:39:38.320 --> 1:39:39.639 For those of you who are keeping track at home, 1:39:39.680 --> 1:39:42.200 that is our Manson family tie in. Jordan has yet 1:39:42.240 --> 1:39:45.160 to work in the Beatles or the Beach Boys. Yeah 1:39:45.160 --> 1:39:48.840 that's true. Huh, I'll figure out something. I haven't done 1:39:48.840 --> 1:39:51.719 a Manson tian in a while. It's true, it's true. 1:39:52.680 --> 1:39:55.200 So this house production got it cheap and it was 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:57.599 Craven said that the art department went in there and 1:39:57.600 --> 1:40:00.280 did an enormous number on the house. We put all 1:40:00.320 --> 1:40:03.679 sorts of beams and stained glass windows, darkened all the colors, 1:40:03.800 --> 1:40:06.120 brought out all the set dressings. It was done in 1:40:06.160 --> 1:40:08.439 a sort of farmhouse style and we changed it into 1:40:08.439 --> 1:40:11.599 a gothic farmhouse. Production also made a bunch of fake 1:40:11.680 --> 1:40:15.000 barn fronts to hide the trailers. I like that these 1:40:15.000 --> 1:40:18.679 were obviously all taken out after production the house was sold. 1:40:18.720 --> 1:40:21.439 The house was sold in twenty fourteen for whoa two 1:40:21.520 --> 1:40:24.280 point eight million dollars, although I guess it's outside of 1:40:24.280 --> 1:40:27.639 San Francisco and Zillo now estimates its value at three 1:40:27.680 --> 1:40:31.639 point five million, and you believe it currently is a 1:40:31.680 --> 1:40:35.519 wedding venue and event rental property called spring Hill Estate 1:40:36.280 --> 1:40:39.800 and does offer Scream tours for two hundred bucks a pop. 1:40:39.960 --> 1:40:42.519 So they don't call it the Scream House like they 1:40:42.800 --> 1:40:44.880 they It's called spring Hill State and I think they 1:40:44.920 --> 1:40:47.800 do just like weddings there, but there is also like 1:40:47.840 --> 1:40:51.160 a subcontracted company that does Scream tours there. And I 1:40:51.200 --> 1:40:53.960 think when they launched the movie, Airbnb did some kind 1:40:54.000 --> 1:40:56.200 of a like when they rebooted the movie, Airbnb did 1:40:56.200 --> 1:40:58.120 some kind of a tie in. I was like, come 1:40:58.200 --> 1:41:01.240 stay Stew's house from Scream. I don't have dollars two 1:41:01.320 --> 1:41:03.320 hundred dollars to drive into the middle of nowhere and 1:41:03.439 --> 1:41:06.120 like trapes around a house. I'm sorry that surprises me. 1:41:06.320 --> 1:41:11.080 I spend that money on boutique guitar pedals. Jordan Streyman, 1:41:11.360 --> 1:41:17.559 give me some free sh ah. Anyway, that final forty 1:41:17.600 --> 1:41:19.719 two minute sequence. Like fully a third of the film 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:22.960 takes place in that house. It was hell to shoot. 1:41:23.120 --> 1:41:25.640 They did it over the course of three weeks, and 1:41:25.800 --> 1:41:29.439 to start with, the place was because of the remote location. 1:41:29.640 --> 1:41:32.439 It made lighting it with a traditional overhead rig called 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:35.920 a condor impossible. A condor is one of those things 1:41:35.960 --> 1:41:37.640 that it's one of those things that it has like 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:40.360 a base and that it has the extending legs out 1:41:40.400 --> 1:41:44.200 to stabilize it, and then you mount different isolated arrangements 1:41:44.240 --> 1:41:46.240 of lights on it. And the ground was simply too 1:41:46.240 --> 1:41:49.160 steep and weird to do that. So they essentially had 1:41:49.200 --> 1:41:51.200 to mount a lot of the lighting that was used 1:41:51.600 --> 1:41:54.719 for the exteriors and to get the kind of atmosphere 1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:57.280 stuff for interiors on the side of the garage. And 1:41:57.320 --> 1:42:00.960 this was costly, took time, It was less than perfect 1:42:00.960 --> 1:42:03.800 because it showed up in some shots, and so this 1:42:03.960 --> 1:42:08.640 is sad. Cinematographer Mark Irwin had worked with Craven on 1:42:08.760 --> 1:42:12.920 four films before, and he had vociferously opposed the location 1:42:13.040 --> 1:42:15.320 from the start, but this is where it gets weird. 1:42:15.560 --> 1:42:19.000 He also pushed to shoot Scream with an anamorphic lens. 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:24.080 Anamorphic lenses as I mentioned earlier our favorite of John 1:42:24.479 --> 1:42:28.920 John carpetel anamorphic lenses are a favorite of John Carpenter. 1:42:29.120 --> 1:42:33.760 It basically distorts the image into a wider frame, and 1:42:33.880 --> 1:42:36.400 Carpenter and a lot of the Western guys that were 1:42:36.439 --> 1:42:41.799 inspired by love it because it gives you this beautiful, large, scenic, 1:42:41.960 --> 1:42:45.439 widescreen image to work with. But because it is actually 1:42:45.479 --> 1:42:49.000 distorting the image that's printed on the film, you get 1:42:49.040 --> 1:42:51.200 things like lens flares, and you get a little distortion 1:42:51.280 --> 1:42:53.200 at the ends of the sides of the screens, and 1:42:53.479 --> 1:42:55.479 some of that in the hands of a really talented 1:42:55.520 --> 1:42:59.639 cinematographer like Dean Kundy on those Carpenter films, looks really 1:42:59.760 --> 1:43:02.760 really beautiful, like you can make lens flair and do 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:06.240 weird things with the distortion inherent in the format. But 1:43:06.800 --> 1:43:09.640 this guy, Mark Orwin and Wes Craven hadn't shot an 1:43:09.640 --> 1:43:12.360 anamorphic before. It was just something that was like, I'm 1:43:12.360 --> 1:43:16.960 gonna shoot this one an anamorphic. So this created a 1:43:17.000 --> 1:43:21.439 problem with what they call focus pulling. And feel free 1:43:21.479 --> 1:43:23.680 to skip ahead fifteen or thirty seconds if you are 1:43:23.720 --> 1:43:26.920 not interested in the most granular bit of filmmaking I 1:43:26.920 --> 1:43:29.840 have ever talked about. On this show, focus pulling is 1:43:29.880 --> 1:43:34.200 a specific part of camera operation, which doesn't mean keeping 1:43:34.240 --> 1:43:37.920 the entire shot in focus. It means keeping a specific 1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:42.160 focal point on an actor or in a location consistent 1:43:42.600 --> 1:43:46.280 as those things move within the frame. So, for example, 1:43:46.760 --> 1:43:49.679 a puller might hone in on an actor's eye during 1:43:49.680 --> 1:43:54.320 a shot, and bad focus pulling is when they would 1:43:54.320 --> 1:43:57.040 not track that as the actor moves, and then you 1:43:57.120 --> 1:43:59.720 end up with a focus point that goes from their 1:43:59.760 --> 1:44:03.040 eye to their ear or to a point in the background. 1:44:03.160 --> 1:44:07.280 That is focus pulling. And so with about three weeks 1:44:07.320 --> 1:44:12.559 to go, editor Patrick Lucier voiced concerns with the particular 1:44:12.600 --> 1:44:15.760 focus puller on Mark Irwin's team that he said had 1:44:15.840 --> 1:44:16.760 been quote. 1:44:16.479 --> 1:44:18.200 Accumulating for three films. 1:44:18.560 --> 1:44:20.519 So I remember these guys had worked Craven's team had 1:44:20.560 --> 1:44:24.080 worked together for a while, and they took the cinematographer 1:44:24.160 --> 1:44:25.840 into one of the rooms and was like, look, man, 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:30.719 all this stuff is unusable because with bad focus pulling, 1:44:31.560 --> 1:44:35.080 that eliminates the consistency of footage that you need to 1:44:35.479 --> 1:44:39.240 edit a film together. Right, You can't edit shots together 1:44:39.320 --> 1:44:42.559 that have different focal points ostensibly within the same scene. 1:44:43.080 --> 1:44:46.479 This all track My explaining this well, yeah, okay, cool. 1:44:47.040 --> 1:44:49.120 And so one of the most famous examples of this 1:44:49.200 --> 1:44:52.200 that I think I haven't delved into whether or not 1:44:52.240 --> 1:44:55.480 it was the specific focus pooler or just the cinematographer 1:44:55.520 --> 1:44:58.640 who did this, But there's a really famous one in 1:44:58.720 --> 1:45:02.680 Requiem for a Dream is during the unbroken shot of 1:45:02.800 --> 1:45:08.879 Ellen Burston's like horrifyingly sad monologue, and there's a second 1:45:08.880 --> 1:45:12.439 where the focus pool changes, and it was because the 1:45:12.479 --> 1:45:16.880 guy working it had started crying and his tears fogged 1:45:16.960 --> 1:45:20.520 up the lens so that he couldn't see what was 1:45:20.560 --> 1:45:24.920 the lost focus for a second. Anyway, So that's your 1:45:25.040 --> 1:45:28.000 that's Hegel's nitty gritty digression. 1:45:29.120 --> 1:45:31.519 I'm wearing nasal strips right now because, as you can hear, 1:45:31.600 --> 1:45:33.760 I have a cold. But if I wasn't, you would 1:45:33.800 --> 1:45:37.879 have heard me snoring. Okay, cool, I'm saw. I'm kidding. 1:45:37.960 --> 1:45:40.479 You know, I love all this technical stuff that I 1:45:40.479 --> 1:45:43.400 don't have a magic. I love how much you love 1:45:43.479 --> 1:45:45.599 movie magic. No, I did, and that was very well 1:45:45.680 --> 1:45:47.439 told and very fast. I'm kidding. 1:45:48.560 --> 1:45:51.280 You should keep the story bitten, though it's funny. 1:45:52.520 --> 1:45:55.000 Keep it all in I always do. I never edit 1:45:55.040 --> 1:45:58.639 you for time. Well, I edit you for a fence 1:45:58.680 --> 1:46:05.400 and humor. Anyway, After screening some of the final footage, 1:46:05.520 --> 1:46:09.959 Irwin said Craven after conferring with editor Patrick Lucier, Lucier 1:46:10.680 --> 1:46:14.320 informed Erwin that all the filmed footage was unusable and 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:18.680 that thirty five days of scenes needed to be reshot. 1:46:18.280 --> 1:46:21.639 He must have wanted to walk into the ocean. That 1:46:21.840 --> 1:46:25.320 is so bad and it all began with a scream, 1:46:25.479 --> 1:46:28.479 A wonderful making of book. Irwin alleged that he was 1:46:28.520 --> 1:46:31.240 being scapegoated for the film running behind scheduled due to 1:46:31.280 --> 1:46:33.719 an agreement Craven had at the studio that he would 1:46:33.720 --> 1:46:36.960 forfeit his salary after a certain amount of delay. Producer 1:46:37.000 --> 1:46:40.920 Kathy Conrad denies that she will defend Red Craven to 1:46:40.920 --> 1:46:43.479 the death, but either way. Erwin was replaced on the 1:46:43.520 --> 1:46:46.280 spot after the screening by Peter Deming for the final 1:46:46.320 --> 1:46:51.839 three weeks of shooting thirty five days over Oh my god. Anyway, 1:46:52.120 --> 1:46:54.120 This is all contributed to what is now referred to 1:46:54.160 --> 1:46:58.519 as quote the longest night in horror history, scene one 1:46:58.640 --> 1:47:02.240 hundred and eighteen, which had over twenty parts. Hi, I 1:47:02.280 --> 1:47:04.680 goel tell us about seeing one eighteen. This seems like 1:47:05.000 --> 1:47:06.880 something that is more you well. 1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:09.160 Cast and crew printed up T shirts that read I 1:47:09.280 --> 1:47:12.280 survived seeing one eighteen after they wrapped. So there's about 1:47:12.439 --> 1:47:16.920 That's about the scope of it. To keep blood consistent 1:47:17.000 --> 1:47:19.320 from shot to shot, they were not allowed to wash 1:47:19.400 --> 1:47:23.120 their costumes, so Nev Campbell said, I would take it 1:47:23.160 --> 1:47:24.880 off in the morning and then in the evening when 1:47:24.880 --> 1:47:27.160 I went back to work, because the continuity of the 1:47:27.200 --> 1:47:29.680 blood had to be the same. They would just wet it. 1:47:30.160 --> 1:47:32.920 They would just dampen the whole thing. I wanted to 1:47:32.920 --> 1:47:36.320 burn that costume at the end of the movie. The 1:47:36.360 --> 1:47:38.880 call sheets for these for all these days of shooting 1:47:38.920 --> 1:47:42.080 had a much more prosaic name for the scene, People Live, 1:47:42.600 --> 1:47:49.400 People Die. The final confrontation between Campbell, Lillard, and Ulrich 1:47:49.439 --> 1:47:53.840 took five days on its own. One particular moment made 1:47:53.840 --> 1:47:58.840 production literally question Wes Craven's sanity. Mary and Matdeleena said, 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:01.479 we thought Wes went nuts because we didn't know the 1:48:01.520 --> 1:48:04.040 sofa had feathers in it, and we thought Wes was 1:48:04.080 --> 1:48:06.960 crazy to carry on with everyone covered in blood, which 1:48:07.000 --> 1:48:09.919 is really corn syrup as the feathers fall over them. 1:48:10.160 --> 1:48:13.000 Skeet Olrick told Vulture, We've got Nev pinned in the 1:48:13.040 --> 1:48:14.639 corner of the kitchen. I'm trying to hit that little 1:48:14.680 --> 1:48:18.000 heartfelt moment of my character having lost his mom and 1:48:18.080 --> 1:48:20.200 Sydney disappears and we can't find her, and I run 1:48:20.200 --> 1:48:21.680 into the living room with my knife and cut the 1:48:21.720 --> 1:48:24.600 couch open. I had so many damn feathers stuck to 1:48:24.600 --> 1:48:27.080 all that blood around the neck. We do the first 1:48:27.120 --> 1:48:29.479 take and all I can hear is Wes laughing. I 1:48:29.560 --> 1:48:31.240 look down and it looks like I have a duck 1:48:31.320 --> 1:48:34.479 on my hand. Also, that finale had a very real 1:48:34.560 --> 1:48:35.960 scare for skeet Ulric. 1:48:37.760 --> 1:48:38.719 His dad came out. 1:48:42.960 --> 1:48:47.000 Here is this on the coll sheetr McDonald. 1:48:50.120 --> 1:48:54.439 Where he was talking with like Bob Einsteiner or if 1:48:54.439 --> 1:48:57.120 he's talking with somebody who's like, yeah, I used to 1:48:57.160 --> 1:49:00.800 walk into uh, Dean Martin Street. 1:49:01.479 --> 1:49:04.800 Dean Martin at Hamburger hamlet you know everything. That's what 1:49:04.880 --> 1:49:05.960 I meant. That's where I saw him. 1:49:06.120 --> 1:49:08.559 Was it was it Hamberd, Yeah, that's where I also, 1:49:08.720 --> 1:49:09.680 we must have talked about it. 1:49:09.840 --> 1:49:10.960 I don't know, well, you know it was me at 1:49:10.960 --> 1:49:11.680 Hamberg and I. 1:49:11.600 --> 1:49:13.559 Walked in there and he had lost his son and 1:49:13.600 --> 1:49:16.120 he was my He was one of the guys that 1:49:16.400 --> 1:49:18.880 just did it like that was the guy. I looked 1:49:18.880 --> 1:49:21.160 at it and he was sitting there and he was 1:49:21.280 --> 1:49:24.840 having a martini, and I just walked over and I 1:49:24.960 --> 1:49:28.280 was twenty two, twenty three, and I just kind of 1:49:28.280 --> 1:49:30.320 stood there. I didn't want to bother him because I 1:49:30.400 --> 1:49:34.000 or maybe I was twenty four and he was just 1:49:34.040 --> 1:49:36.400 sitting there and he looked up and it was it 1:49:36.560 --> 1:49:39.000 was nice, and I just went, I found your. 1:49:38.880 --> 1:49:54.719 Son, that' said Bob Sage's better a guest. 1:49:54.960 --> 1:49:56.840 Something should do an edit where they find an old 1:49:56.840 --> 1:50:00.360 picture of Skilk's biological dad and just like put him 1:50:00.360 --> 1:50:04.200 in as a force ghost in the background like the 1:50:04.360 --> 1:50:10.320 blue Anakin Skywalker. I'm proud of you some Oh, anyway, 1:50:11.400 --> 1:50:15.000 making more fun of Sketric's childhood drama, the guy had 1:50:15.080 --> 1:50:17.840 open heart surgery when he was a kid. Oh, and 1:50:18.400 --> 1:50:21.000 he was left with a scarred area where the skin 1:50:21.200 --> 1:50:23.960 was thinner, and there was a bunch like stainless steel 1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:27.880 wire because they had to reconstruct like part of his heart. 1:50:28.320 --> 1:50:31.200 So there's stainless steel wire like under this, under this 1:50:31.280 --> 1:50:33.519 scarred area, this thinner skin that was very sensitive to 1:50:33.560 --> 1:50:38.200 the touch. And turns out havev Campbell hit him in 1:50:38.200 --> 1:50:41.160 that exact spot with an umbrella when she jumps out 1:50:41.160 --> 1:50:44.760 of the closet at him, and so his reaction to 1:50:44.880 --> 1:50:46.439 that pain is very real. 1:50:47.000 --> 1:50:49.920 Cambell recalled the difficulty of maintaining an intense level of 1:50:50.040 --> 1:50:52.240 terror for that long. How long were they shooting this 1:50:52.800 --> 1:50:56.639 five days? God? But that was helped along by Wes Craven, 1:50:57.320 --> 1:50:59.320 and the scene was skeeton. Matt went up against the 1:50:59.320 --> 1:51:01.920 counter and there to kill me. I'm about to get 1:51:01.920 --> 1:51:04.519 my strength. Wes came up and he just whispered in 1:51:04.600 --> 1:51:08.400 my ear. He said, imagine you've got a thousand bullets 1:51:08.479 --> 1:51:12.760 ricocheting through your body, and he walked away. Your fear 1:51:12.840 --> 1:51:15.400 might have been helped by how intense Alrick and Lillard were. 1:51:15.760 --> 1:51:22.680 Lillard told Vulture, we were amped, were fully torn. Bro, 1:51:22.840 --> 1:51:25.840 he really is that way. Wow. There was no doubt 1:51:25.840 --> 1:51:27.599 that we were on a fever pitch for the five 1:51:27.680 --> 1:51:30.480 days we shot the last killing sequence, we were screaming, 1:51:30.800 --> 1:51:32.960 don't see what he did there. We were in between, 1:51:33.960 --> 1:51:36.639 we were in between takes, trying to maintain that energy. 1:51:36.960 --> 1:51:39.439 Aulrick added, Courtney came to the set getting ready to 1:51:39.439 --> 1:51:41.639 shoot it, and Matt and I are like caged animals 1:51:41.640 --> 1:51:44.640 in that zone. Just pacing the set. Courtney comes in 1:51:44.680 --> 1:51:47.200 and we make eye contact, and Wes was like, Okay, 1:51:47.400 --> 1:51:50.479 all right, all right, she's freaked out and we're not 1:51:50.520 --> 1:51:53.599 even filming yet. And I distinctly remember Wes being like, 1:51:53.760 --> 1:51:55.880 all right, guys, just calm down for a second. 1:51:57.479 --> 1:52:01.720 Just like Faroly covered in blood. I can see how 1:52:01.760 --> 1:52:03.920 Crinny Cox looks at and makes eye contact with one 1:52:03.960 --> 1:52:06.080 of them was like, what the fuck did I sign 1:52:06.160 --> 1:52:06.679 up for again? 1:52:06.800 --> 1:52:10.080 These fifty gallons of fake blood on this movie? It 1:52:10.120 --> 1:52:11.439 almost sounds low and I. 1:52:11.400 --> 1:52:13.880 Say that, yeah. 1:52:14.200 --> 1:52:14.639 Uh. 1:52:14.880 --> 1:52:19.080 Random note about composer Marco Beltrami from his CHR part. 1:52:19.360 --> 1:52:21.840 He said Wes was looking for a composer for the movie, 1:52:21.880 --> 1:52:23.840 and I send over a demo tape. I had not 1:52:23.920 --> 1:52:26.000 seen any horror movies up to that point. I had 1:52:26.040 --> 1:52:28.479 never been affair and of the genre. When I went 1:52:28.520 --> 1:52:31.000 into meet with Wes, I remember him saying, it's funny 1:52:31.240 --> 1:52:33.960 all the demo tapes we get, everyone sounds like John Williams. 1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:36.639 You're the first one that sounds like your original Bell 1:52:36.680 --> 1:52:38.800 Trommy took the opening scene home and scored it over 1:52:38.840 --> 1:52:41.479 the weekend to secure the gig. Speaking of music, you 1:52:41.520 --> 1:52:43.800 gotta talk about my beloved Nick Cave, whose song Red 1:52:43.880 --> 1:52:46.000 Right Hand off his nineteen ninety four album with the 1:52:46.000 --> 1:52:48.519 Bad Seeds Let Love In, was used in the film 1:52:48.680 --> 1:52:51.120 alongside a host of other tunes, but it edged them 1:52:51.120 --> 1:52:55.200 all out and became the franchise's de facto theme song. Unsurprisingly, 1:52:55.240 --> 1:52:58.240 this story starts out with a long time Wes Craven collaborator, 1:52:58.479 --> 1:53:02.719 Grammy and Peabody Award winning music supervisor Ed Gerard. Gerard 1:53:02.760 --> 1:53:05.280 told Bloody Disgusting dot Com that he'd actually pitched a 1:53:05.320 --> 1:53:08.760 different Nickcave song, lover Man also Let Off Let Love 1:53:08.800 --> 1:53:14.080 In for Vampire in Brooklyn, albeit unsuccessfully. However, Scream's eventual editor, 1:53:14.120 --> 1:53:16.720 Patrick Lucier liked the album so much that he asked 1:53:16.760 --> 1:53:19.599 Gerard if he could keep it. Gerard wasn't even hired 1:53:19.640 --> 1:53:21.800 on Scream until about halfway through, and he came in 1:53:21.840 --> 1:53:24.040 and pitched Red Right Hand, which is the sort of 1:53:24.120 --> 1:53:27.200 narrative ramble of a song about this mysterious badass with 1:53:27.240 --> 1:53:30.080 the titular limb, which is a reference to John Milton's 1:53:30.120 --> 1:53:33.479 Paradise Lost, and Gerard actually gives Lucier all the credit 1:53:33.520 --> 1:53:37.519 for the song's effective use in the film. Lucier explains 1:53:37.520 --> 1:53:40.439 how the song was present basically from his very first edits. 1:53:41.360 --> 1:53:43.920 He said the two sequences where it appears the instrumental 1:53:44.000 --> 1:53:46.720 early on and the lyric into the chorus for the 1:53:46.760 --> 1:53:49.680 town shutting down, were cut in during the initial edit 1:53:49.720 --> 1:53:52.800 on both scenes. Never once was any other music present 1:53:52.840 --> 1:53:55.040 for either scene, and neither of those scenes were shown 1:53:55.040 --> 1:53:58.479 to Wes without that song present. It was serendipitous timing 1:53:58.520 --> 1:54:01.559 because Cave had released Murder Ballads, which contains his chart 1:54:01.560 --> 1:54:05.080 topping Kylie Minogue duet where the Wild Roses Grow, in 1:54:05.120 --> 1:54:07.400 February of nineteen ninety six, so his team was looking 1:54:07.400 --> 1:54:11.200 for any opportunity to prolong the exposure. When it came 1:54:11.240 --> 1:54:13.800 time to use the song again and Scream two, music 1:54:13.840 --> 1:54:16.640 supervisor Ed Gerard met with Cave. He looks at me 1:54:16.680 --> 1:54:18.559 and goes, were you the one that put that song 1:54:18.600 --> 1:54:21.320 in there? And I said yeah. He said, you know, 1:54:21.400 --> 1:54:23.640 I sat with my kids and we watched Scream, and 1:54:23.640 --> 1:54:25.719 they were impressed that my song was in that movie. 1:54:26.240 --> 1:54:29.880 They loved that movie. However, Cave felt about its continued 1:54:29.960 --> 1:54:32.480 use in Scream, he just stopped being opposed to its 1:54:32.480 --> 1:54:35.080 licensing in general, as it is also the theme song 1:54:35.360 --> 1:54:39.760 for the prestige crime. I've never watched it. Peaky Blinders. 1:54:40.080 --> 1:54:42.920 Then later Nickckave's son would take a dangerous dose of 1:54:42.960 --> 1:54:43.680 acid and fall. 1:54:43.520 --> 1:54:45.560 Off a cliff. Oh is that? How was that went down? 1:54:45.840 --> 1:54:49.120 That happened in twenty fourteen. I didn't know the acid part. 1:54:49.440 --> 1:54:53.360 Oh yeah, he was super tripping, very sad, very sad. 1:54:54.200 --> 1:54:57.720 Production predictably had the battle the MPAA over certain gory 1:54:57.760 --> 1:55:01.720 aspects of the film. Apparently it got sent back nine 1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:05.400 times as NC seventeen for the NPA allowed it to 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:08.480 go out with an R. Weirdly, one of the biggest 1:55:08.480 --> 1:55:11.800 points of contention was the line movies don't create psychos, 1:55:12.000 --> 1:55:17.240 Movies make psychos more creative. Kevin Williamson told The Hollywood 1:55:17.240 --> 1:55:18.960 Reporter that was the line I had written on a 1:55:19.000 --> 1:55:21.000 note card and taped to my wall, and the whole 1:55:21.000 --> 1:55:24.120 movie was written towards that line. It came out of 1:55:24.160 --> 1:55:26.520 me watching Bob Dole, who at that time is screaming 1:55:26.560 --> 1:55:28.760 about the violence and cinema, and he was going after 1:55:28.840 --> 1:55:31.880 Quentin Tarantino for that whitty Harrelson Juliet Lewis movie Natural 1:55:31.920 --> 1:55:35.640 Born Killers editor Patrick Lucier said it's certainly the line 1:55:35.640 --> 1:55:37.800 of dialogue the NPA went after and wanted to remove 1:55:37.840 --> 1:55:40.720 from the film. It was like, you can't speak that 1:55:40.800 --> 1:55:44.000 kind of truth, that particular line of dialogue. They wanted 1:55:44.000 --> 1:55:46.240 to censor, but they don't word it that way. They 1:55:46.360 --> 1:55:49.360 just say, look at these areas, this is a problem, 1:55:49.440 --> 1:55:51.800 this and this and this and this. The film was 1:55:51.840 --> 1:55:54.440 still titled Scary Movie until late in production when the 1:55:54.440 --> 1:55:58.680 Wine Scenes insisted on rechristening it to scream which prompted 1:55:58.680 --> 1:56:01.800 a quickly settled lawsuit Sony Pictures claiming it infringed on 1:56:01.920 --> 1:56:05.640 the copyright of their nineteen ninety five movie Screamer. Most 1:56:05.680 --> 1:56:08.560 people actually hated the title, though a few did begrudgingly 1:56:08.560 --> 1:56:10.760 admit that it tied in with the Edward Munch painting 1:56:10.800 --> 1:56:15.480 the Mask resembled quite well. One maybe problem was that 1:56:15.520 --> 1:56:19.000 Bob Weinstein insisted on releasing the film on December twentieth, 1:56:19.160 --> 1:56:24.040 nineteen ninety six, two days before my ninth birthday. Bob 1:56:24.120 --> 1:56:26.080 was outam and about it, and he'd done his tracking. 1:56:26.120 --> 1:56:29.560 Producer Kathy Conrad told Vanity Fair that guy knew everything 1:56:29.560 --> 1:56:32.400 about every movie. He looked at all the competition. He 1:56:32.440 --> 1:56:34.960 did analyze those numbers. His office was like the new 1:56:35.000 --> 1:56:37.800 York Stock Exchange. He said, everyone's going to see all 1:56:37.800 --> 1:56:39.960 these other things, but there's this group of people who 1:56:40.040 --> 1:56:42.840 are being ignored. They're going to go see this movie, Scream, 1:56:42.880 --> 1:56:46.240 because it's the only one counterprogramming a horror movie. No 1:56:46.240 --> 1:56:49.080 one was thinking like that at Christmas. Bob just decided 1:56:49.080 --> 1:56:52.240 he was going to do it differently. One other brilliant 1:56:52.280 --> 1:56:54.920 part of the marketing was that the studio highly promoted 1:56:54.960 --> 1:56:58.200 Drew Barrymore as the star, priming audiences for the bait 1:56:58.280 --> 1:57:01.880 and switch when she was killed ten minutes in. Scream 1:57:01.920 --> 1:57:04.600 opened against Beavis and Butt Heead Do America, which did 1:57:04.680 --> 1:57:07.320 twenty million on its first weekend, while Scream did a 1:57:07.320 --> 1:57:09.920 mere six point three million. But the film had a 1:57:09.960 --> 1:57:13.240 slow burn, becoming more and more popular in nineteen ninety seven, 1:57:13.480 --> 1:57:16.800 eventually picking up one hundred and three million domestically against 1:57:16.800 --> 1:57:20.040 his fifteen million dollar budget, and it was something of 1:57:20.040 --> 1:57:23.320 a win for Bob Weinstein. Dimension, with five films and 1:57:23.360 --> 1:57:26.879 release that year, were responsible for about thirty seven percent 1:57:26.960 --> 1:57:30.200 of the studio's total grosses, whereas Harvey had put out 1:57:30.240 --> 1:57:33.360 thirty two pictures through Mirrimax. Wow. 1:57:34.240 --> 1:57:37.520 Yeah, it kind of made Bob, which is interesting because 1:57:37.840 --> 1:57:40.240 there was this whole like Harvey was obviously hot for 1:57:40.280 --> 1:57:43.760 pulp fiction, but like this one was such a big 1:57:44.080 --> 1:57:47.080 win for dimension within the mier Max umbrella that it 1:57:47.920 --> 1:57:51.040 I mean, I hope he dies still, but you know. 1:57:52.400 --> 1:57:54.880 Critics were mostly positive about the film's striking tone and 1:57:54.920 --> 1:57:57.680 takes in the horror genre. Roger Ebert and Janet Maslin 1:57:57.720 --> 1:58:00.360 both raised the point though that the film's gore might 1:58:00.400 --> 1:58:03.800 have diffused its satirical points. Ebert merely posed this as 1:58:03.800 --> 1:58:07.040 an open ended musing in an otherwise positive review, though 1:58:07.080 --> 1:58:11.320 Maslin wrote with scream Craven wants things both ways, capitalizing 1:58:11.320 --> 1:58:14.880 on lurid material while undermining it with mocking humor. Not 1:58:14.920 --> 1:58:17.000 even horror fans who can answer all this film's knowing 1:58:17.040 --> 1:58:20.520 trivia questions may be fully comfortable with such an exploitative mix. 1:58:21.080 --> 1:58:25.040 This is really interesting because the Substance is a wonderful 1:58:25.160 --> 1:58:27.120 horror movie that just came out this year that is 1:58:27.320 --> 1:58:32.000 like truly a mind boggling film. It is extraordinarily beautiful, 1:58:32.200 --> 1:58:35.640 beautifully shot. Demi Moore puts in like maybe a career 1:58:35.640 --> 1:58:40.400 best performance, but it is so intensely stylized and so 1:58:41.800 --> 1:58:46.520 sledgehammering with its themes that I have been having hot 1:58:46.520 --> 1:58:49.080 conversations with people about this movie about whether or not 1:58:49.240 --> 1:58:53.760 it crosses the pose law territory. Pose law is the 1:58:53.760 --> 1:58:57.440 Internet adage that you cannot successfully produce a parody or 1:58:57.440 --> 1:59:02.240 a satire of political or religious extremism without simply making 1:59:02.280 --> 1:59:03.760 a copy of that thing. 1:59:04.120 --> 1:59:04.560 Explain. 1:59:04.800 --> 1:59:07.800 So, the idea being that certain forms of political and 1:59:07.800 --> 1:59:10.680 religious extremism are so caricatured. It's like, how do you 1:59:10.720 --> 1:59:14.040 parody Donald Trump? He's already like a singular force of 1:59:14.240 --> 1:59:18.760 comedic idiocy, right, So the idea of pose law is that, like, 1:59:19.400 --> 1:59:21.520 when you are trying taking aim at something that is 1:59:21.560 --> 1:59:25.120 so extreme and doing your parody in an extreme way, 1:59:25.400 --> 1:59:29.080 you have just produced the thing that you are parroting. Okay, 1:59:29.080 --> 1:59:29.760 does that make sense? 1:59:29.880 --> 1:59:33.160 Yeah? So, I mean it's like, well, one of the. 1:59:32.920 --> 1:59:35.000 Debates one of the things that it was most frequently 1:59:35.000 --> 1:59:37.560 brought up with this on like film Twitter is Starship Troopers, 1:59:37.600 --> 1:59:40.120 where every six months someone brings up the fact that 1:59:40.160 --> 1:59:43.000 there are people out there who just fully read Starship 1:59:43.000 --> 1:59:45.880 Troopers as like a rock and movie about guns and 1:59:45.960 --> 1:59:49.200 bugs and like, yeah, America, despite the fact that it 1:59:49.240 --> 1:59:52.880 was made by a Dutch guy who has very clear 1:59:52.920 --> 1:59:56.640 memories of the Nazis and purposely dressed all of these 1:59:56.800 --> 2:00:02.440 square jawed, hot American people in SSUNI forms, and that 2:00:02.560 --> 2:00:04.240 just goes right over a lot of people's heads. And 2:00:04.280 --> 2:00:06.560 my thing with the substance is that, like, this movie 2:00:07.320 --> 2:00:12.560 takes such aim, broad aim at how women are treated 2:00:12.560 --> 2:00:18.400 in Hollywood, women's body standards, all this really pointed stuff, 2:00:18.600 --> 2:00:20.120 but it does it in a way that is so 2:00:20.440 --> 2:00:25.880 leering and on the nose that it I feel like 2:00:26.000 --> 2:00:28.400 there are people out there who would just straightforwardly read 2:00:28.400 --> 2:00:31.440 it as like a great morality tale about what happens 2:00:31.440 --> 2:00:33.920 to women if they're too obsessed with their appearance, you know. 2:00:36.360 --> 2:00:38.280 So I don't know, I've been I've been reading a 2:00:38.280 --> 2:00:40.280 lot about it, and many people are just saying, like, 2:00:40.320 --> 2:00:42.800 you are literally missing the point that is it is 2:00:42.840 --> 2:00:44.880 what it is, you know, it's that blunt in these 2:00:45.080 --> 2:00:47.160 points that it's making and these things that it's tackling, 2:00:47.520 --> 2:00:49.920 because it's forcing you to confront them in not even 2:00:49.960 --> 2:00:53.160 a particularly subtle way. So I just think it's a 2:00:53.200 --> 2:00:56.880 really interesting conversation about how you can pare it these 2:00:57.040 --> 2:00:59.240 In this case, what Maslyn and Eber brought up of, 2:00:59.280 --> 2:01:02.640 like when you're parodying something, and when you're satiring something 2:01:03.080 --> 2:01:06.520 like you know, if you look too hard at the monster, 2:01:06.640 --> 2:01:09.400 you've become monsters also, or whatever the Nietzsche quote is, 2:01:09.480 --> 2:01:11.000 but you know, you know saying. 2:01:10.960 --> 2:01:12.920 Look too far into the abyss. The aby stare too 2:01:12.960 --> 2:01:14.360 far into the abyss the abyss stairs. 2:01:14.520 --> 2:01:17.240 Yeah, just like, how do you parody something that is 2:01:17.240 --> 2:01:18.920 so like how would you make a parody of Last 2:01:18.920 --> 2:01:20.560 House on the Left, How would you make a parody 2:01:20.600 --> 2:01:25.640 of like Devil's Rejects of like these really extreme examples 2:01:25.680 --> 2:01:29.200 of gore and stuff. It's it's without just making another 2:01:29.280 --> 2:01:30.480 gorror film, you know. 2:01:30.960 --> 2:01:32.760 I mean Sean of the Dead's a good example. I 2:01:32.800 --> 2:01:33.480 think of that too. 2:01:33.600 --> 2:01:37.680 Yes, Sean the Dead is amazing for that. Yeah, I 2:01:37.720 --> 2:01:39.720 don't know, man, maybe the British are just more onto 2:01:39.720 --> 2:01:43.240 it than us. Anyway, it would be its own episode 2:01:43.240 --> 2:01:46.000 to discuss the impact that Scream had for starters. It 2:01:46.120 --> 2:01:49.640 launched Kevin Williamson in an enormous way. He was essentially 2:01:49.680 --> 2:01:51.520 worried that the film was going to flop, so he 2:01:51.560 --> 2:01:53.600 told the ringer, I said yes to a lot of 2:01:53.640 --> 2:01:57.000 stuff before Scream even came out. Dawson's creek was happening. 2:01:57.320 --> 2:01:59.280 I know what you did last summer was happening, and 2:01:59.320 --> 2:02:01.720 they sent me this script for the faculty, like on 2:02:01.800 --> 2:02:05.200 the set of Scream. So right away you have one 2:02:05.200 --> 2:02:08.320 of the biggest teen dramas of the nineties, and then 2:02:08.360 --> 2:02:10.640 just two more of the biggest teen horror movies of 2:02:10.640 --> 2:02:11.600 the nineties and late two. 2:02:11.480 --> 2:02:16.440 Thousands created Dawson's Creek and Vampire Diaries. I didn't know that. Wow. 2:02:16.760 --> 2:02:19.120 Yeah, so like the shadow of that Kevin Williamson's particular 2:02:19.200 --> 2:02:22.520 style of dialogue, as I mentioned along with Joss Whedon 2:02:23.120 --> 2:02:25.280 because Buffy the Vampire Slayer was also huge at this 2:02:25.360 --> 2:02:28.320 time and lauded as an example of how you can 2:02:28.320 --> 2:02:32.880 make compelling genre fair focused on teens. Those two men 2:02:32.960 --> 2:02:36.920 in their dialogue of like pop culture heavy, quasi meta 2:02:37.200 --> 2:02:40.880 reference y quippie dialogue is just something we are we 2:02:40.960 --> 2:02:46.880 still feel in Hollywood. And more importantly, though it launched 2:02:46.880 --> 2:02:50.240 Wes Craven back to the top of the Elder Statesman 2:02:50.480 --> 2:02:53.920 horror director pile, Scream did make an impact in negative 2:02:53.960 --> 2:02:56.320 ways too, though. In the two thousand and six murder 2:02:56.320 --> 2:02:59.640 of Cassie, Joe Stoddard, the perpetrator dressed as ghost Face 2:03:00.040 --> 2:03:02.920 and following the Columbine High School masacre. In nineteen ninety nine, 2:03:03.080 --> 2:03:06.960 the United States Senate Commerce Committee reviewed the marketing of 2:03:07.040 --> 2:03:10.200 films to youths, with Screams Opening shown as an example 2:03:10.240 --> 2:03:14.760 of negative media that could possibly have been viewed by children. Kehole, 2:03:17.040 --> 2:03:19.560 I cannot stress how much this film has also been 2:03:19.600 --> 2:03:22.800 analyzed with people with more prosgraduate degrees and impressive bylines 2:03:22.840 --> 2:03:25.040 than the two of us. So I'm going to avoid 2:03:25.080 --> 2:03:27.920 all that. It's out there, you can read it. It's 2:03:28.560 --> 2:03:31.680 tremendously ripe text. And then, obviously, the success of the 2:03:31.760 --> 2:03:35.600 original launched three more direct sequels and two recent reboots, 2:03:35.600 --> 2:03:37.840 with a third on the way. But the og is 2:03:37.840 --> 2:03:40.200 still the highest grossing and still the best. And also 2:03:40.280 --> 2:03:41.960 we don't even have time to get into all of that. 2:03:42.760 --> 2:03:44.640 I would like to pull focus there back on to 2:03:44.720 --> 2:03:47.360 Wes Craven, whose twenty fifteen death was a huge loss 2:03:47.360 --> 2:03:50.400 to both the horror community and seemingly anyone he ever 2:03:50.480 --> 2:03:55.440 worked with except the Santa Rosa School District. There's two 2:03:55.440 --> 2:03:59.760 great quotes that his editor, Patrick Lucier, gave to Hollywood reporters. 2:04:00.200 --> 2:04:03.840 Is very serious and very touching. Wes made very unique 2:04:03.880 --> 2:04:06.640 films that had a lot of integrity. He understood that 2:04:06.640 --> 2:04:09.240 these were primal stories that were important to tell, that 2:04:09.280 --> 2:04:12.400 you were offering people something scary yet letting them survive 2:04:12.440 --> 2:04:15.680 the experience. There's something about surviving on screen whoares that 2:04:15.760 --> 2:04:17.680 makes the hordes of your own life or the charals 2:04:17.760 --> 2:04:21.720 and tribulations feel less So for those couple hours you 2:04:21.760 --> 2:04:25.120 get to escape that. And the second great quote that 2:04:25.160 --> 2:04:29.440 he gave was Wes's memorial service, was that the Director's 2:04:29.480 --> 2:04:32.080 Guild of America and there's all these different people who'd 2:04:32.080 --> 2:04:34.320 worked with him over the years and family. There were 2:04:34.360 --> 2:04:36.839 all these directors who showed up for it. Michael Apdad 2:04:36.840 --> 2:04:38.600 who used to be the head of the Director's Guild, 2:04:39.000 --> 2:04:42.720 Christopher Nolan, John Landis, and Toby Hooper and all these 2:04:42.720 --> 2:04:45.360 different people spoke. But one of the best speeches was 2:04:45.400 --> 2:04:48.360 one of Wes's friends from the Audubon Society who played 2:04:48.360 --> 2:04:55.040 bird Calls. Wes would have loved it. Whoh John Lennis killed. 2:04:54.880 --> 2:04:57.600 A couple kids. 2:04:58.240 --> 2:05:02.720 And Rick Morrill. Folks, thank you for listening. This has 2:05:02.760 --> 2:05:07.360 been two terrors much stab formation, close out, Spooky Mom. 2:05:07.440 --> 2:05:10.200 I hope you had a great Halloween everyone. I'm Alex 2:05:10.280 --> 2:05:12.160 Heigel and I'm Jordan Runtalg. 2:05:12.520 --> 2:05:19.840 We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information was a 2:05:19.840 --> 2:05:21.240 production of iHeart Radio. 2:05:21.480 --> 2:05:24.720 The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk. 2:05:24.880 --> 2:05:27.760 The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June. 2:05:28.000 --> 2:05:30.880 The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan run 2:05:30.920 --> 2:05:31.840 Talk and Alex. 2:05:31.600 --> 2:05:34.520 Heigel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost 2:05:34.600 --> 2:05:37.400 Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard, please subscribe 2:05:37.440 --> 2:05:40.280 and leave us a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, 2:05:40.400 --> 2:05:43.800 visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 2:05:43.840 --> 2:05:44.760 to your favorite shows