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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts and figures behind your favorite TV shows, movies, music,

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Speaker 2: and more. We are your two disturbingly obsessed divas of

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Speaker 2: data dissemination. I'm Alex Heigel.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jordan Ron Talk. Hello, Heigel.

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Speaker 2: I was just about to say, like, do you want

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Speaker 2: did you want me to do?

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Speaker 3: Like what's your favorite podcast? That's good, that's real good.

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Speaker 2: It's not, it's not. It's not one of my disagree

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Speaker 2: he's I mean no, because, as we'll cover later, that

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Speaker 2: man is weird. Yeah, and I don't think I have

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Speaker 2: the depth of grossness in my soul to adequately capture him.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I do, Maybe I do. Let's not sell myself short.

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Speaker 2: Once again, we put the proverbial car before the horse,

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Speaker 2: because Jordan, late though we may be, we are finishing

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Speaker 2: out Spooky Month at TMI. It's kind of an educase,

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Speaker 2: right because we can get it in under like Day

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Speaker 2: of the.

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Speaker 3: Dead, yeah, or like Daylight Savings time, and everything gets

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Speaker 3: darker and sad. Sure, spooky, it's a different kind of spooky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an inside spooky.

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Speaker 3: That's a heart spooky, it's a spooky mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're finishing out Spooky Month at TMI with an

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Speaker 2: all time classic that revitalized the slasher genre and its

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Speaker 2: director's semi morribond career launched a thousand at least probably

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Speaker 2: a million at this point film school lectures on metatextualism

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Speaker 2: and coined an annoying new voice for people to imitate.

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Speaker 2: Present Company included that's right, we were talking about nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 3: Six is scream God. Yes.

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Speaker 2: I was first made away of this film by the

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Speaker 2: trailers and like movie standees everywhere, like this is one

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Speaker 2: of the first movies that I distinctly remember being in

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Speaker 2: theaters and being like, what's that? And then it wasn't

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Speaker 2: until because this movie came out December of ninety six,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't until ninety seven that I saw hordes of

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Speaker 2: ghost faces of all sizes and shapes trick or treating.

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Speaker 2: So this was just like one of those movies that

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Speaker 2: I was like, I think too scared for maybe a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 3: Really.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't really get into like properly watching whrror

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Speaker 2: until like middle school, or at least like seeking it out,

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Speaker 2: which otherwise foisted on me in a few different opportunities,

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Speaker 2: as I think we covered extensively here the kid down

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Speaker 2: the street with the Michael Myers obsession and my dad

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Speaker 2: showing me Alien.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that'll do it, brother.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, I think I got to this at

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Speaker 2: like eleven or twelve, and it got me, got me

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Speaker 2: real good.

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Speaker 3: As it should have.

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Speaker 2: I mean it is rooted in like the who Done It?

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Speaker 2: You know, so as that wonderful row of like hitchcocky

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Speaker 2: in or almost noir like subterfuge and suspicion of everyone.

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Speaker 3: I think that's why I like it. It feels less

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Speaker 3: horror to me and more in like the Hitchcock realm.

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Speaker 3: Like Psycho doesn't feel like horrid to me either. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that's probably why exactly because I don't do Gore

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Speaker 3: and I don't do like monsters and things like that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, this I really.

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Speaker 2: Except for when I made you watch The Thing and

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Speaker 2: you were like that dog just exploded.

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Speaker 3: Oh I love the Thing though. That was another one.

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Speaker 2: It's another one.

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Speaker 3: It's a suspicion of everyone. Yeah, yeah, so good people,

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Speaker 3: Good that you love the s tier of horror films

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Speaker 3: at least.

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Speaker 2: Assessing Scream looking at it through like twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: eyes is frankly difficult because Meta is now just one

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Speaker 2: of the giant tech companies that's slowly poisoning all of

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Speaker 2: our brands. And also, like the Kevin Williamson and I

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Speaker 2: will lump Joss Whedon into him, the Kevin Williamson Joss

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Speaker 2: Whedon like school of dialogue became such a defacto tone

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Speaker 2: for cinema, and it got extra legs out of it

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Speaker 2: because Joss Whedon did The Avengers. So not only did

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Speaker 2: we have like a solid ten year span where Dawson's

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Speaker 2: Creek and Scream or like Kevin Williamson's dialogue was everywhere,

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Speaker 2: it was this sort of met textual hyper quippi, you know,

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Speaker 2: teens who have every single pop culture reference of a

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Speaker 2: much older man at their fingertips. And then in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: Just Whedon did The Avengers, so all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: everybody had to be like all.

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Speaker 3: The superheroes had to talk about other superheroes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or just being like not fourth wall breaking, or

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Speaker 2: at least like winking at the fourth wall, like you know,

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Speaker 2: the classic joke on film Twitter is like when someone

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Speaker 2: like rolls their eyes and goes, He's right behind me,

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Speaker 2: isn't he? And then like you know, like like that,

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Speaker 2: so the movie had a long tail.

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Speaker 3: Oh my question for you, how much do youah that

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Speaker 3: Tarantino had to do with that kind of medica? I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess that's they weren't really discussing movies. They were

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Speaker 3: more discussing pop cultural points.

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Speaker 2: I mean, inasmuch as Quentin Tarantino had an influence on

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Speaker 2: everything from the mid nineties to the mid two thousands,

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Speaker 2: you know, and still but like yeah, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure anyone who is a struggling filmmaker in the early

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Speaker 2: nineties saw Reservoir Dogs and then pulp fiction and was like,

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Speaker 2: oh and especially for this movie, I think because as

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Speaker 2: we're getting into later, Quentin Tarantina was like mier Max's

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Speaker 2: golden boy and literally the only person that the Weinsteins

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Speaker 2: would not work with. So I'm sure some of the

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Speaker 2: notes were like dial this into the Quentin territory, Quentin territory.

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Speaker 2: But so yeah, it's really hard to remember what had

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Speaker 2: bomb this was into the horror psyche, not financially, but

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Speaker 2: just like it just rewrote I mean, not only did

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Speaker 2: it rewrite the rules as it openly discussed them. But look,

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Speaker 2: you know the rules. Yeah it but it also just

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Speaker 2: like revolutionized that. I can't think of another horror film

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Speaker 2: that changed the way people like discussed the grammar of

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Speaker 2: horror as a genre, because every other one had just

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Speaker 2: been kind of an iteration on a mold. And A

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Speaker 2: great read for this is also the book Men, Women

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Speaker 2: and Chainsaws, which is incredible, an all time title, and

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Speaker 2: it is like an actual scholarly work done by I

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Speaker 2: think a woman at you See Berkeley, Carol J. Clover. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this was written in nineteen ninety two and it's the

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Speaker 2: book that coined the term final.

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Speaker 3: Girl for starters, oh seriously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and sort of laid down a lot of the

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Speaker 2: rules that people are talking about with this, like Slasher's

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Speaker 2: never use a gun. Slasher's always used not like it's

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Speaker 2: always like a phallic extension or was one of her

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Speaker 2: big things. So there's a lot of like that book has.

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Speaker 2: It's dense because it's like you see Berkeley, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's I think it was printed through Princeton,

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Speaker 2: but it's like postgrad level of writing. So it's dense,

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Speaker 2: but it does like lay out a lot of the

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Speaker 2: track work for this movie's exploration. Anyway, I've talked about

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Speaker 2: for long enough? Do you what do you think about

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Speaker 2: Scream Jordan?

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Speaker 3: It's so good. It's just so good. I don't have

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Speaker 3: anything smart to say about it. I mean just the

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Speaker 3: opening alone.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, is his Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I would cement it in, you know, in the pantheon

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Speaker 3: of incredible scary movies.

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Speaker 2: I am mad that I didn't get to see this

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Speaker 2: in theaters because I cannot imagine what it would have

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Speaker 2: been like in a pre internet, pre phone, pre spoiler era.

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Speaker 2: When you walk in there and you see one of

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Speaker 2: America's sweethearts, Drew Barrymore, who is then summarily terrified and

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Speaker 2: grossly murdered.

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Speaker 3: Just what do you want? I want to see what

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Speaker 3: your insides look like? God, this is what this movie

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Speaker 3: did for phones, what Psycho did for showers. I have

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Speaker 3: to say I heard the phone to this day.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'll put the I'll put the I'll put

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Speaker 2: a note in that I had at the end, but

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Speaker 2: the use of color I d jumped up three hundred

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Speaker 2: after this movie was filmed. It did this movie? Is?

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Speaker 3: Is this what inspired you to like bone up on

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Speaker 3: scary movie trivia in case you got a phone call

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Speaker 3: and somebody was like, you know, riddle me.

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Speaker 2: This, or else your girlfriend died. Well I didn't have

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend, so there's no worrying about that. But that's good.

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Speaker 2: Or else your fretless bass happened, neck chat. I don't

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Speaker 2: know you at age fifteen. Yeah, no, I would have.

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Speaker 2: I would have lost a valuable time obsessing over Bay

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Speaker 2: Area punk, Scott punk if you will. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's what would it have been like to see in

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Speaker 2: real time? We cannot We literally can't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. Did you ever notice? In the opening?

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Speaker 3: And maybe this is just me reading too much into it.

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Speaker 3: The music is like a weird mix of the psycho

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Speaker 3: theme and the et theme, and it has like the

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Speaker 3: the like staccato string hits, but also there's like a

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Speaker 3: little dude in the background.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting. I mean, as as we'll get to.

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Speaker 2: The composer had like never seen a horror movie, so

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Speaker 2: he was unbound by the various conventions of unshackled by

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Speaker 2: the conventions of the genre.

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Speaker 3: I love a misanthropic. This entire movie is I mean,

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Speaker 3: there are so many great one liners. She used to

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Speaker 3: sit next to me in English class. Not anymore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it walks such a great line of it's the

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Speaker 2: it's in the Heather's mold, but it's not. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: push it quite so far, and it really does walk

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Speaker 2: that wonderful line of like these are all quasi unlikable

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Speaker 2: characters to various degrees, excepting maybe sweet Jamie Kennedy and

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Speaker 2: you know Nev campbell Is is like whiny but understandably.

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Speaker 3: So I'm sorry if my traumatized life is an inconvenience

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Speaker 3: to you in your perfect existence. Yes, I'm the one

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Speaker 3: who's been self absorbed with all this post traumatic stress.

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Speaker 3: This it's so funny. I mean it almost seems like

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Speaker 3: it like prefigures the like over use of like oh

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Speaker 3: I'm so traumatized, Like yeah, it's funny. How early that seems.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And like I like, like I was saying,

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Speaker 2: it's like it does walk this line of having everyone

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Speaker 2: be like in these quasi unlikable archetypes of like you know,

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Speaker 2: the hot slut, the dirt bag boyfriend, and yet they're

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Speaker 2: still so magnetic by part of it's just being young

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Speaker 2: and hot. But it's like I don't find it that though,

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Speaker 2: no walk that back, cut that out. I don't want

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Speaker 2: people coming to me for Nev Campbell. She's as sweet,

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Speaker 2: although I am pissed at her about the reboots, which

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Speaker 2: we will get to. Okay, well, Jordan, from the roots

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Speaker 2: of this film, from the pen of a failed actor

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Speaker 2: and a Barbara Walter special, to the violence that the

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Speaker 2: Weinsteins inflicted on the production process, to the absolute revolution

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Speaker 2: it's spurred in its genre. Here is everything you didn't

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Speaker 2: know about Scream. The story of Screen begins with a

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Speaker 2: man named Kevin Williamson, the aforementioned failed actor. After graduating

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Speaker 2: from college in North Carolina, Like so many idealistic dumbasses

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Speaker 2: before him, a young Williamson moved to New York to

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Speaker 2: pursue an acting career. This didn't go very well on

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Speaker 2: either coast. He got a small part in the soap

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Speaker 2: opera Another World in nineteen ninety, then moved to la

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one, picked up small roles in things

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Speaker 2: like in Living Color music videos and films like nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four is Dirty Money and the previous Year's Hot Ticket,

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Speaker 2: a film which concerns two kidnapped strippers who must perform

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Speaker 2: erotic routines for their captors after their plane crashes near

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Speaker 2: a mountain hideaway.

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Speaker 3: That concerns me too.

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Speaker 2: It was well hitting this all time low and taking

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Speaker 2: screenwriting classes at UCLA.

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Speaker 3: Can't confirm taking screenwriting classes is an all time low.

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Speaker 2: That Williamson had his first success in Hollywood. He'd written

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Speaker 2: a script called Killing Missus Tingle, which was later retitled

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Speaker 2: Teaching Missus Tingle, that was picked up in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: five and then sat in development hell until after the

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Speaker 2: successive Scream. Missus Tingle was based on a teacher of

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Speaker 2: Williamson's in high school who repeatedly told him he had

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Speaker 2: no hope of ever becoming a writer. Once she interrupted

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Speaker 2: him while he was reading a short story aloud to

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Speaker 2: the class, saying, you have a voice that shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: heard and that's disgusting and sit down.

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Speaker 3: Did I ever tell you about my last day in

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Speaker 3: screenwriting school? No, it's literally the last time I set

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Speaker 3: foot in the screenwriting apartment floor of NYU for what

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Speaker 3: they called was a crypt panel where you had your

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Speaker 3: final project, your thesis project evaluated. And I had a

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Speaker 3: habit of being overly wordy as it were, which I've

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Speaker 3: then parlayed into speaking about Bewitched in the Brady Bunch

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Speaker 3: for hours at a clip on podcasts, so it ended

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Speaker 3: up working out for me. But so there's dialogue in scripts,

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Speaker 3: and then there's what's called across the page, which is

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Speaker 3: like description and of scenes and stuff like that. And

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Speaker 3: one of the educators on my panel just took my

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Speaker 3: script and like closed their eyes and flipped through it

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Speaker 3: and then just opened that a page at random and

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Speaker 3: put their finger down and hit a big old block

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Speaker 3: of text and read it out in this like flowery

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Speaker 3: voice and was like, now, that's beautiful, but that has

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Speaker 3: absolutely no business in a screenplay. Have you ever just

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Speaker 3: considered becoming a novelist? And that was my exit interview

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Speaker 3: from U Screenwriting was, let me just do a thing

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Speaker 3: that we didn't just spend the last four years too

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Speaker 3: China do and you kind of just came to it naturally.

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Speaker 3: And I haven't completed a screenplay since. Actually that's not

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Speaker 3: trure I have.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you wouldn't make an excellent novelist.

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Speaker 3: He's dead now, though I won that one. I didn't

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: Yes I did, ultimately, and not really the point here,

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Speaker 2: but Williams had made a deal with one of Hollywood's

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Speaker 2: literal devils to get this beloved script off the ground.

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Speaker 2: He was a hot name in horror after Scream and Mirror.

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Speaker 2: Max was then attempting its unteenth at bat at the

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Speaker 2: Halloween franchise, casting about for a writer for what would

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Speaker 2: eventually become Halloween H two oh. Williamson told Ain't It

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Speaker 2: Cool News in nineteen ninety seven Love citing them that

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Speaker 2: he wrote a treatment for H two oh as a

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Speaker 2: favor to Bob Weinstein. It was a little trade off.

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Speaker 2: He'd let me direct Killing Missus Tingle if I wrote

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Speaker 2: the Halloween treatment. My first script was at another studio,

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Speaker 2: and I told Bob, if you can get that movie

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Speaker 2: for me to direct, I'll bear your children phrasing Yeah

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Speaker 2: that am Kevin. That didn't age well.

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Speaker 3: No. As part of this deal, the film was eventually

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Speaker 3: released as Teaching Missus Tingle for two reasons. One, the

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Speaker 3: column by massacre happened in April nineteen ninety nine, and

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Speaker 3: anything conflating killing in the schools became an instant no go.

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Speaker 3: And two, there was the nineteen seventy eight thriller by

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Speaker 3: author Lois Duncan that had a suspiciously similar plot called

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Speaker 3: killing Mister Griffin, and Duncan's camp prompt legal action when

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Speaker 3: they were made aware. Williamson told the Happy Horror Time

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Speaker 3: podcast in twenty twenty three, they stopped everything in its tracks,

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Speaker 3: and they went through the book, and they went through

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Speaker 3: the script. Williamson maintained that his script was based on

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Speaker 3: his aforementioned evil teacher and a real, incredibly mundane incident

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Speaker 3: from his high school years where he and some pals

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Speaker 3: were cut drinking in an attic above the school gym

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Speaker 3: like idiots. No, no, not on the premises, literally in

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Speaker 3: the attic. Yeah, the school. What kind of gym as

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Speaker 3: an addic? I've never I now, I'm like thinking, fact,

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Speaker 3: they could buy high school gym of an attic? And

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Speaker 3: if so, what kind of horrifying things are out there?

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Speaker 3: What was in there?

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Speaker 2: What did I miss out on?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean kind of anyway, this would have scotched

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Speaker 3: their entire graduation. So he and his palace contemplated driving

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Speaker 3: to the teacher's house presumably the teacher that caught them

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Speaker 3: and quote bagging her and saying like, please please don't

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Speaker 3: do this to us. You're gonna ruin it. We're not

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Speaker 3: going to be able to graduate. Please don't do that now,

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Speaker 3: he says, bagging her. I mean I assume it means

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Speaker 3: like like literally in a sad head. Yeah all right.

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Speaker 3: I no word on whether or not he actually did that,

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Speaker 3: but you're right, teaching missus Tingle isn't very good. I

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Speaker 3: remember really liking it when while I was watching with

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Speaker 3: my older cousins, like soon after it came out.

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Speaker 2: Fine, Katie Holmes, you think she's good and things.

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Speaker 3: It's good than that.

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Speaker 2: She's she's a sweet lady.

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Speaker 3: I look her as like a slightly evil student. She

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Speaker 3: kind of plays that that role in in Wonder Boys

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Speaker 3: with Michael Douglas.

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Speaker 2: Oh you would like wonder Boy.

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Speaker 3: I love wonder Boys. Yeah, it's about a stressed out writer.

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Speaker 3: We can't finish anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean I think Helen

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Speaker 2: Mirren was like someone was like, why did you do

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Speaker 2: that movie? And she gave the classic like Michael Kaine

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Speaker 2: answered and she said something because they gave me a

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Speaker 2: big check pay for my mother's hospice. Yeah, So I

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Speaker 2: don't know. It's it's it's fine, it's quirky. He's not

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Speaker 2: a director, and has he done anything since he's about

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Speaker 2: to do the next one.

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Speaker 3: There's going to be a teaching missus Tingleer.

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Speaker 2: Oh sorry, there's gonna be a seven cream for seven.

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Speaker 3: A seven cream for the new reboots.

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Speaker 2: They've just been calling them. They're they're ostensibly they're Scream five,

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Speaker 2: six and seven, but they've been working the Roman numerals

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Speaker 2: into the title or like typographically, so it didn't it's not.

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Speaker 2: For a while everyone was hoping it was going to

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Speaker 2: be five cream and then scrimmix because of the Roman.

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Speaker 3: Like the you know, it's the cream, the cream, it's

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Speaker 3: it's the vit from the makers of the Vivich comes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's dumb. I hate that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 3: It is. It's like too fast to scream.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know the funny thing about it?

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Speaker 3: Have you?

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Speaker 2: I told you what the funny thing about the Fast

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Speaker 2: the Furious franchises, it was something like copyrights, right, Roger

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Speaker 2: Corman owes the title fast and Fast and Furious or did,

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Speaker 2: and so subsequently every time they had a new Fast

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Speaker 2: and Furious movie, rather than paying him again, they just

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Speaker 2: iterated a new form of it, and it's too fast,

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Speaker 2: too furious, fast five fast X the Fast and the

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Speaker 2: Furious or no Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift.

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Speaker 3: Well, I thought Tokyo Drift was flying fast and furious

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Speaker 3: Tokyo Drift.

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Speaker 2: I think, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: They skirted it with drifting, so the oldest trick in

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Speaker 3: the book.

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Speaker 2: They drifted right past.

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Speaker 3: A one hundred year old Roger Coran on his death

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Speaker 3: bed earlier this year, still cursing the producers fast the

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Speaker 3: Furious franchise.

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Speaker 2: Roger, One last question? Do you want to let them

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Speaker 2: have it? No rose food?

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Speaker 3: This is an episode for the nerds. This is our

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Speaker 3: usually we're in for the music nerds. This is for

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Speaker 3: the film nerds. This is gonna good way.

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Speaker 2: Where do I get into focus? Pulling you people? Have

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Speaker 2: no idea? What's in store for you?

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Speaker 3: Dutch angles, zipzabs hop. We're having gone to film school.

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Speaker 3: I know surprisingly little about like the technical terms for

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Speaker 3: any of like the film composition.

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Speaker 2: I think zipzabzop is a drama game. Yeah yeah, yes,

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Speaker 2: and a right go ahead?

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Speaker 3: Oh it's me still who's literally whose lines it? Anyway?

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Speaker 3: Though we'd sold his first script teaching Missus Tingle, Williamson

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Speaker 3: told The Hollywood Reporter that quote, I was still struggling

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Speaker 3: a lot and eating my oodles of noodles. He was

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Speaker 3: house sitting in Palm Springs when he watched the March ninth,

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four episode of Turning Point focusing on Daniel Rolling,

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Speaker 3: known as the Gainesville Ripper, who murdered five college students

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Speaker 3: in Florida over four days in August nineteen ninety Williamson

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Speaker 3: told CNN in nineteen ninety eight, during the commercial break,

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Speaker 3: I heard a noise and I had to go search

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Speaker 3: the house. And I went into the living room and

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Speaker 3: the window was open. And I've been in the house

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Speaker 3: for two days. I'd never noticed a window open. So

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Speaker 3: I got really scared. So I went to the kitchen,

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Speaker 3: got a butcher knife, got the mobile phone. I called

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Speaker 3: a buddy of mine. That buddy, David Blanchard, was in

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Speaker 3: Hot ticket with Williamson and told CNN Kevin was looking

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Speaker 3: under the beds. He was going out to the garage

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Speaker 3: and looking in the garage and I'm like, don't go outside.

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Speaker 3: If you go outside, You're gonna go outside and the

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Speaker 3: killer will sneak in the door while you're outside. And

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Speaker 3: Williamson was like, what do you mean, what do you

389
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Speaker 3: mean the killer. It's like Seinfeld meets serial killers. Yeah,

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00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 3: the Paris conversation drifted to the iconic slasher stars of

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Speaker 3: their youth, but Williamson told CNN, I went to bed

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Speaker 3: that night so spooked. I was having nightmares, and I

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Speaker 3: woke up at like three or four in the morning,

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Speaker 3: and I started writing the opening scene to scream.

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Speaker 2: Dude, how funny does this movie? If you just read

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Speaker 2: it in the side Feld voice, I'm sorry if my

397
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 2: dramatic life is an inconvenience for you. So you have

398
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,360
Speaker 2: a few animacy issues. So there was all of your

399
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: mothers on timely that.

400
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Speaker 3: Jerry, Jerry, It's all a movie. It's all one great

401
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 3: big movie. Only you can't pick your genre. No, that

402
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 3: was I could have done a better Cramer.

403
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Speaker 2: I don't care. I'm not a Sidefeld guy. But it

404
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: is funny.

405
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 3: But you do play the bass.

406
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: That would have been a great soundtrack addition to this,

407
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 2: Like they fade out the nick cave and it's just

408
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: like the obnoxious keyboard synth slab bass.

409
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 3: Forgot how good the soundtrack is this?

410
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Speaker 2: Yeah, horror movies weren't a big slump back then. Kevin

411
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Speaker 2: Williamson told The Ringer, they have an amazing oral history

412
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Speaker 2: of this as does Hollywood Reporter that will be sighting

413
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Speaker 2: the slasher films of the late seventies and eighties had

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Speaker 2: sort of petered out. No one was really making great

415
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Speaker 2: horror films. Well, the second part of that sentence, he

416
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Speaker 2: is stupid. Williamson was correct that most of the major

417
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Speaker 2: slasher franchises were in Faulo periods at this point. I mean, dude,

418
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 2: Candyman came out like, uh, it's one of the that's

419
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 2: another str horror movie, you dumb idiot. You couldn't touch

420
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Speaker 2: Candy Man. Kevin Williamson, you hack, you put I hate that.

421
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 2: I hate that, And no good horror movies.

422
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 3: That come out. You have no good horror movie ideas.

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Speaker 2: Uh. He was right about the first part, though. Michael

424
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 2: Myers had been off screen since nineteen eighty nine after

425
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Speaker 2: the wildly mismanaged fifth installment in his franchise, Jason Vorhes

426
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 2: was literally dragged to hell by Freddy Krueger in nineteen

427
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Speaker 2: ninety two. Is Jason Goes to Hell the Final Friday?

428
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Speaker 2: Did you know that, Jordan?

429
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Speaker 3: No? I did not.

430
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Speaker 2: Yeah. At one point Newline had the rights to Jason,

431
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 2: Evil Dead and Freddy, and they were planning for Jason

432
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 2: versus Freddy versus Ash three way crossover, and it fell apart,

433
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Speaker 2: and then all we eventually got out of it was

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Speaker 2: Freddy Versus Jason, which is a fun movie. But prior

435
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 2: to that, Freddy's Last Bow had been in the year prior,

436
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 2: in ninet ninety one in Freddy's Dead The Final Nightmare.

437
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 2: The nineteen ninety the third movie in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

438
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: would set a record as the lowest grossing film in

439
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 2: the franchise until the next one in nineteen ninety five.

440
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: The point is that while there were a lot of

441
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 2: excellent films being made around this time, like the aforementioned

442
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety twos Candy Man, it was easy to

443
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 2: feel like the slasher genre had quick voice led out.

444
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: So Williams had set to writing the kind of horror

445
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: slasher that he'd want to see. I thought, if a

446
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: killer was actually using the cliche of a horror film,

447
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: perhaps that would spin them around, he told Entertainment Weekly.

448
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: I thought, if you could just expose the rules and

449
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: play with them, then the audience doesn't know what they're

450
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: going to get. Suddenly they're on edge. I started playing

451
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 2: with the tropes Williamson didn't even have a full length

452
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: feature in mind when he started writing in the middle

453
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: of the night. What people don't know is that the

454
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 2: opening I wrote it as a one act play. That's

455
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 2: great Comic book dot Com in twenty twenty one. It

456
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: was just a young character on the phone talking to us,

457
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: but it could be a killer outside that morphed into

458
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: the opening scene into Williamson worked quickly and banged out

459
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: the rest of the script in three days, ultimately titling

460
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: it hilariously What would follow Scary movie every time?

461
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: About my friends when I play no I just saw recently.

462
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 3: My friend is an incredible actor. She's and she leans

463
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: more towards like the horror movie genre kind of things.

464
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: I mean, she's kind of your classic scream queen basically.

465
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: And she was followed home to her apartment one night,

466
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: and this guy attacked her in the lobby of her

467
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 3: her apartment and like fractured her skull. It really beat

468
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: her badly, and apparently this guy had been like stalking

469
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 3: her for weeks and she had no idea and it

470
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: was really really really horrific. I mean, she had she

471
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 3: had to move and kept changing places where she was

472
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 3: living for you know, every couple of weeks because she

473
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: was just so you know, just just traumatized by it

474
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 3: all and it took a year to physically recover and

475
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 3: she didn't work in that time. And one of the

476
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: first things she auditioned for was as a victim and

477
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: an SVU type show, and during the audition the casting

478
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: director said, I'm sorry, I think we're gonna go a

479
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: different direction. Your screams don't sound lived in. It was

480
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 3: the phrase. And so she wrote this incredible one act

481
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 3: play called pretty Good Not Bad that just It went

482
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 3: to the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh at the end of

483
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 3: the summer, which is just her at this audition. It's

484
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: just a monologue talking to you know, an unseen casting

485
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 3: director having given that that note, and it is it

486
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 3: is unbelievable. Ellen toldend, does her name, look her up,

487
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 3: check her out, let's cast her. If you're in a

488
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: position to say, she is absolutely amazing. It's an incredible

489
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: piece of work. I don't know when and where it's

490
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 3: being performed next, but it was really really stunning.

491
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

492
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty It was really crazy.

493
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 2: I can't imagine doing that.

494
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I know. It was a really unbelievable way

495
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 3: to process something that I mean is not terribly dissimilar

496
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: to what we're discussing that went on in Scream, but

497
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 3: she made something incredible out of it. Super proud of

498
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: her anyway, Well, now we're gonna talk about the Weinstein's

499
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: after that. Jesus, I was hoping to be something a

500
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: little brighter. Christ Williamson sent a specscript around and it

501
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 3: pretty quickly attracted attention. A Dimension Films executive told the

502
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: Hollywood Reporter that he was given the script by a

503
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 3: Mirramax executive and was immediately hooked. Bob Weinstein told me

504
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: that I've ever read a script that blew me away.

505
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: Let him know immediately. So I called him at home

506
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: and said, I just read a script, and if you

507
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: don't want to make this, I don't know what you're

508
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 3: looking for. Producer Kathy Conrad added, we got into the

509
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: game on it fairly early, and we were used as

510
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 3: a stalking horse for several of the other places that

511
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 3: bid on, and afterwards we won and got the script.

512
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 3: What is a stalking horse?

513
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 2: I actually love that and also this woman, keep her

514
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: in mind, Kathy Conrad is incredible. Stalking horse is used

515
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: in either politics or bankruptcy or criminal investigation.

516
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 3: What a trifecta? What a riddled rich term.

517
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: It's basically the idea of testing a concept on behalf

518
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: of a third party. For example, in politics, it's used

519
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: when like a sham candidate is put forward to hide

520
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: another more serious candidate.

521
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 3: Interesting.

522
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I think the idea is that people

523
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: were waiting to see or hear what Dimension would bid

524
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: on it in order to calculate their own bids.

525
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: Greatly, okay, Williamson recalled to the Ringer In twenty twenty one.

526
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: There were a lot of different companies bidding for it.

527
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: The price started going up. It being the script, the

528
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: price started going up. Oliver Stone's production company had a

529
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: discretionary fund and they were bidding on it. I got

530
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: nervous because the price went up to a degree where

531
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 3: one of the studios was like, Wow, we don't pay

532
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 3: this kind of money for a horror movie. We're out,

533
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: And I went, okay, well this is over. Williamson ultimately

534
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: wound up going with Dimension, who bought the script for

535
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: four hundred thousand dollars in the summer of nineteen ninety five.

536
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 3: Medium Level. There was also a Vanity Fair article in

537
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: two thousand and four that suggested Drew Bahrem read the

538
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: script and once she signed on Merrimax, Green led.

539
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, that article is really interesting. It's all about

540
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: the Weinsteins and but it has a ton about screaming

541
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 2: it and as we'll get to the frankly unconscionable I

542
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: mean at a long list of their unconscionable acts, but

543
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: the horrible way they treated Wes Craven so Dimension funnily

544
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: enough immediately pitched it to its eventual director, Wes Craven,

545
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: who turned it down. The studio then went to their

546
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: roster of directors connected to Dimension, like Robert Rodriguez and

547
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: Quentin Tarantino, before also talking to the likes of Sam Raimi,

548
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 2: Danny Boyle, who would have just been coming off Trainspotting

549
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 2: I believe, and George Rameiro.

550
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: Tarantino would have been interesting.

551
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he would have been doing at this point.

552
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 2: It would have been mired in either one of his

553
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: unrealized projects between pulp fiction and Jackie Brown or just

554
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: Jackie Brown. And you know, he's a he's a I

555
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 2: don't think he would have wanted to do something.

556
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: Oliver Stone doing that.

557
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: Would have been incredible because he would just he was

558
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: just off natural ble one killers.

559
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: Uh okay with you. I thought he was just.

560
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: That's the thing about Hollywood, is they just they just

561
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: immediately go like, oh, that guy did something similar, Let's

562
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 2: have him do it again.

563
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: I thought he was just off of doors, off the doors.

564
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: That would have been hilarious. But the film seemed tailor

565
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: made for Craven, who had taken a stab at reinventing

566
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise with nineteen ninety four.

567
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: Is a New Nightmare. This was the first time he'd

568
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: come back to the franchise since nineteen eighty seven.

569
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 3: Is it too late to hold for applause?

570
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: No?

571
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 3: Okay.

572
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: Craven signed a very naive early contract that essentially gave

573
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: away his rights for the Nightmare and Elm Street franchise

574
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: after the first one, so New Nightmare could seem as

575
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: a much more humorless dry run for Scream's entire self

576
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: aware meta approach to the genre. This is going to

577
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: get a little weird. Craven, Freddie, actor Robert England, and

578
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: the original film star Heather Langencamp all star as themselves

579
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: in a world which the Nightmare and Elm Street franchise

580
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: is a real film franchise. We are all playing themselves

581
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: in a world like our own, until the lines between

582
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: fiction and reality are blurred because Heather begins to be

583
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: stalked by a new indifferent guy who also just looks

584
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: exactly like Freddy Krueger. It doesn't really quite come off.

585
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 2: It's very interesting and creative and like a bold effort,

586
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: but it gets a little mired. There's a scene in

587
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: which it literally grinds to the halt in Wes Craven's

588
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: office so that he himself can deliver a speech about

589
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 2: maybe the stories that we tell are actually legends, and

590
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: maybe those legends are based in real things that can

591
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: surface again once we give them enough power. It's a

592
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: bold swing and it was become a real called hit,

593
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: but I don't think it did it particularly well in

594
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: the time.

595
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: It sounds like the horror equivalent of It's Gary Shanling show.

596
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it really does prefigure like I mean,

597
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: I don't want to say like Eric Andre that's like

598
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: actually just it's deranged absurdism, but like it really for

599
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, like taking your established franchise and taking

600
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: that big of an intellectual philosophical swing at it is

601
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: really it was really something, and it really just gets

602
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: at the heart of Wes Craven. He is one of

603
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: the most conflicting personalities who has contributed indelibly to the genre.

604
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: You cannot find a bad word about Wes Craven. He was,

605
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: by all accounts an incredibly gentle kind, intellectual guy. He

606
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: studied English and psychology and undergrad and then got a

607
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: master's in philosophy and writing from Johns Hopkins, and he

608
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: was teaching full time in New York when he bought

609
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: a used sixteen millimeters camera and started making short films

610
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: From there. He basically leveled up through the film industry

611
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: from sound editing and then under pseudonyms, he started working

612
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: in porn. He supposedly worked on Deep Throat under a pseudonym,

613
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: and it was actually through the porn industry that he

614
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 2: met Future Friday the Thirteenth creator producer Sean Cunningham, and

615
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: he raised enough cash for his first feature, nineteen seventy

616
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: two's Last House on the Left. Last House on the

617
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: Left is one of those appalling grindhouse classics that Rob

618
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: Zombie saw and made it. Half of his artistic vision,

619
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: the other half being Texas Chainsaw. It is so gross

620
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: and so mean. It's ostensibly a homage to Ingmar Bergmann's

621
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine Oscar winning film The Virgin Spring, Dragged

622
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: through many layers of dirt. It's shot in seven days.

623
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: It's like a it's like ostensibly it's I guess, putting

624
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: it as bluntly as possible as a rape revenge film.

625
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm on the Wikipedia page, and there's a Wikipedia

626
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: page for rape and revenge film as a genre, which

627
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: I am not familiar with.

628
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, straw Dogs I think is probably in there maybe.

629
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: But Last House the Left was shot in a week,

630
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: and Craven deliberately pushed the boundaries of what he could

631
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: get away with with violence on screen. And he did

632
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: this as a way of reconciling what he felt was

633
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: the unrealistic depiction of violence on screen. Henceforth or hence heretofore.

634
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: He did this purposely as a way of reconciling what

635
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: he felt was the unrealistic depiction of film violence and

636
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: the photos and film footage of the very real carnage

637
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: of the Vietnam War that were trickling in Last House

638
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: on the Left became a touchstone of the exploitation and

639
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: grindhouse genre and attracted all kinds of protests, censorship, and coverage,

640
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 2: and expanded beyond the limited rum regional releases that Craven

641
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: had envisioned for. And it also has one of the

642
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: most famous horror taglines of all time. To avoid fainting,

643
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: keep repeating, it's only a movie, It's only a movie.

644
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: It's only a movie. Done in like fading down descending script.

645
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: Classic was reused for like four other films in the decade,

646
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 2: but despite Last House in the Left's success, it grossed

647
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: three million on a ninety thousand dollars budget, Craven had

648
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: trouble getting his other non horror films made and he

649
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: did not want to be pigeonholed as a horror guy.

650
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: He told Newsday in nineteen ninety four that he had

651
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: written a comedy about the beauty pageants circuit and an

652
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: ambitious biopic of Kerrent Anthony Herbert, the Inspector General of

653
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: the Army who is demoded for refusing to cover up

654
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: American atrocities in Vietnam, but under financial duress and also

655
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: informed by a friend of how cheap it was to

656
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: film in the Nevada Desert. Craven wrote and directed another

657
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: cult classic, The Hills Have Eyes in nineteen seventy seven,

658
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: about an inbred cannibal family of feral killers hiding out

659
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: in the irradiated Nevada Desert and preying on tourists. Though

660
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: ostensibly just another revenge film, Craven viewed The Hills Have

661
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: Eyes as a treatise on how, for quote unquote, normal

662
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: people can be pushed into savage violence. By the end

663
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: of the film, the mild mannered tourist is indistinguishable from

664
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: the villain whose head he's crushing in with a rock

665
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: while screaming. It's a hefty film. The remake is actually

666
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: far crazier. It's a great remake as far as these

667
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: things go. But it has a lot going on, not

668
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: just as like post nuclear kind of stuff, because the

669
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: implication is that, like, aside from inbreeding, these people were

670
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: messed up by the bomb test deserts of America. So,

671
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: as he'd feared, Craven became trapped in the in genre.

672
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: Fair He made two more horror films before nineteen eighty

673
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: two's disastrous Swamp Thing adaptation, which is just a real

674
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: piece of and you have to understand how much I

675
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: love swamp Thing as a character. God that movie sucks anyway.

676
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: His next film was A Night Merre at Elm Street

677
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four, another film that literally turned the

678
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: horror genre on its head. Ress Craven was a big reader.

679
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: He read like newspapers voraciously and this was based Did

680
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: you ever hear about what this was based on?

681
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: No?

682
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 2: So, Wes had read several newspaper articles in the La

683
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 2: Times about long refugees who had fled to the United

684
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: States because of war and genocide in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam.

685
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: They were having these horrible nightmares and were literally refusing

686
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: to sleep, and some of these men ended up dying

687
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: in their sleep soon after. And this was actually called

688
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: Asian death syndrome and affected people from ages nineteen to

689
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: fifty seven. Wes later said that there were all of

690
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: these articles and the paper never really dragged them together.

691
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 2: And then do you know what else? He was inspired by?

692
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 3: No gem We've found no the Gary Wrights, see we.

693
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: Can make it Oooh yes, yes, indeed, yeah, So that's

694
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: just nuts man. And so he had this idea of

695
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: a slasher who pursued people in their dreams, and his

696
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 2: next few years continued to expand the horror genre that

697
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: he was now at least semi comfortably resigned to. Nineteen

698
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: eighty six Is Deadly Friend was an adaptation of a

699
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: sci fi novel about a teenage computer prodigy who implants

700
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: a processor chip into the brain of a comatose neighbor,

701
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: with the titular deadly results. Nineteen eighty eight Is the

702
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: Serpent in the Rainbow, starring Bill Pullman, is an incredibly

703
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: fascinating film. I really love this film. He goes back

704
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: to the roots of the zombie genre and is based

705
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: on a real life account of an ethnobotanist was in

706
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: Haiti studying the botanical roots of zombies and voodoo and

707
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: the idea that you can combine certain plant elements and

708
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: vegetable elements into powders and like blow it in somebody's

709
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: face and put them into this state of living death

710
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: where they would act under your control and do your bidding.

711
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 2: And before, like I mentioned in the last episode, before

712
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 2: Georgiamhera came along with the Knight of the Living Dead,

713
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: positing the zombies were actually going to rise from the

714
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: dead The first time that Americans had really heard about

715
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: this was in I Walked with a Zombie in the forties,

716
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: which is actually about Haitian voodoo. So he goes and

717
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: adapts this novel and filmed it in Haiti after the

718
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 2: overthrow of the Duvaliers, and they literally had to flee

719
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: because they were like, it's not safe for you here anymore.

720
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: And so the film is just, I mean, it is

721
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: insane because it has a very relatively faithful depiction of

722
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 2: the Tantan mccoot, who were the paramilitary secret police that

723
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: were basically the death squads of the Devalier's Papa Doc

724
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: and Baby Doc. And this was not that covered in

725
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: Western media, and certainly not that I mean it was covered.

726
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: This was certainly covered in Western media, but not in

727
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: like mainstream genre fair filmmaking, and certainly not on location

728
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 2: in Haiti. Then nineteen eighty nine Shocker comes along. It's good.

729
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: It's a fine movie. It's a fine horror movie starring

730
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: Mitch Peleggy. Mitch Peleggi. Mitch Peleggy is he's an X

731
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 2: Files guy. He's best known as one of their FBI

732
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: handlers and X Files anyway, that presupposes what if a

733
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 2: serial killer became electric after he was executd anyway, bomb water,

734
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: bubbles grave, and ever smoked weed. So it's oh yeah,

735
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's a first bom ripe idea.

736
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: I didn't realize, I mean, that's a totally derail you,

737
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: but that the concept of zombies and popular culture is

738
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 3: relatively new as opposed to like mummies and yeah things

739
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 3: like that.

740
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not that big of a nerd

741
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 2: to have read into where Romero was purposely diverting from

742
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: the established canon of like, I wa, I mean that

743
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: movie is really groundbreaking. It's first of all, I think

744
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: it's like the first time zombie appears as a in

745
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: a Hollywood title. But I don't know when he was

746
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: writing or directing Not a Living Dead how much he

747
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: was purposely like I'm going to take this away from that.

748
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean it's really interesting. You know, Haitian

749
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: culture is extremely fascinating, and also the way that the

750
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: US decimated that country. It's also the first successful slaver

751
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: vault on countrywide level. So yeah, read about Haiti cool culture. Anyway.

752
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: Craven came Roaring Back in nineteen ninety one with The

753
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: People Under the Stairs, which is an absolutely bad film.

754
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to describe it to you now. It stars

755
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: twin peaks Everett McGill and Wendy Robie big Ed and

756
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 2: Nadine as a pair of inbred husband and wife costs

757
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: playing slum lords who have this enormous house that they

758
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: have accrued all of their ill gotten wealth into, but

759
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 2: they have also secretly been capturing children and mutilating them

760
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: and stashing them in the basement when they failed to

761
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: live up to their insane conservative religious standards. The two

762
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 2: were very pointedly a character of Nancy and Ronald Reagan,

763
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: which is oh deeply wild, and at one point Everett

764
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: McGill shows up in a gimp suit wielding a shotgun

765
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: with zero explanation. He just comes out in a gimbsuit.

766
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 2: But so they're not they're not even the antagonists, or

767
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: they are not the anti heroes of the film. The

768
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: protagonist in this movie are all black. There's like an

769
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 2: elementary middle school age kid who is the star of it.

770
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: And what happens is is that he basically the accompanies

771
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: two older guys on a break in and they're trying

772
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 2: to rob them and uncovers this whole macabre world that's

773
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: going on in there, and it just deliberately is like

774
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: just a deliberate, pointed barb into the ratio dynamics of

775
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: the US at the time, because not only do you

776
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: have this idea that's playing on white fears of you know,

777
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: black crime and home invasion seeping into the rich suburbs

778
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 2: and et cetera, but the whole film becomes about how

779
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: these people are the actual true disgusting monsters. It grows

780
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: thirty one million on a six million dollar budget and

781
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: is just now a legitimate classic of the genre. But

782
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: then Craven went into this whole ambitious reboot New Nightmare

783
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four, and then he did Vampire in Brooklyn.

784
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: Do you ever see Vampire in Brooklyn? Jordan? No, not

785
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 2: a great movie.

786
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: Was that what started Eddie Murphy's downturn.

787
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: Or that Boomerang? I think? But well Boomerang came first.

788
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is the film.

789
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 3: That life This isn't a holy Man holy Man.

790
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: No, this is holy Man was later. This is the

791
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 2: film that prompted Dennis Dennis at faced, little Guy Oh Miller,

792
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: now the Blonde One, Tommy Boy Spade, not Dennis Spade,

793
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: Dennis Spade, David Quaid, David Quaid, Dennis Spade, Dennis Spade.

794
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 2: This is the film Vampire Brooklyn. Sorry, Vampire Brooklyn is

795
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: the film just having a stroke.

796
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 3: It's like a laser with a mirror.

797
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: It's just watching it go back and forth. This is

798
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: the film that prompt is Dennis Spade on his Hollywood

799
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: Minute and.

800
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 4: David No, no, I didn't got me doing it. This

801
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 4: is David film Bade, Dennis Quay, the film that prompted Burns.

802
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 4: This is a film that prompted.

803
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 3: Dave son of a Whore.

804
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 2: This is the film that prompt This is the film

805
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: that prompted David Spade in SNL's Hollywood Minute to show

806
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: sure of Eddie Murphy in Vampire and Brooklyn and say,

807
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: look kids, a falling star. That then spurred Eddie Murphy

808
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: to never return to said L until the twenty oughts. Anyway,

809
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: that brings us to pitching scream.

810
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 3: The anecdote was totally worthy. Julie Pleck, Wes Craven's assistant

811
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: at the time, told the Ringer Vampire and Brooklyn came

812
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: out and it was kind of a disaster, and that

813
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: made him sad. Oh, so he wasn't in any hurry

814
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: to jump back into it into his own genre. Producer

815
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 3: Mary Anne Madelena said that Craven told her that he

816
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 3: quote wanted to get out of the horror ghetto, but

817
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: quote a couple months later he read it again maading

818
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: the script for Scream, and they had attached Drew Barrymore,

819
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: and he just felt like, well why not. He really

820
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 3: enjoyed that work and he knew he was good at it,

821
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 3: so he never thought twice about it once he accepted

822
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: the job. Writer Kevin Williamson went over to Craven's house

823
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 3: to go over the script and told the ringer, I

824
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: get lost driving up into the Hollywood Hills and I'm

825
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: already late. And then I show up and he has

826
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: all these pages of notes on my script. I just

827
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: see them sitting there on the table, and I'm like,

828
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 3: oh no, this is gonna be horrible. He's gonna want

829
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 3: to change everything. I've heard these horror stories. I know

830
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 3: what happens now, this is the moment I get kicked

831
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 3: to the curb. I always lived in fear of that.

832
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 3: And then it turned out he was like, well, most

833
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: of these are typos. There were a bunch of typos.

834
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: He goes, we should just fix everything. Don't you think

835
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 3: has he said he used to be a teacher.

836
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: That's an English teacher, don't you think? Yeah? All the feedback,

837
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: I mean, god, I just you know, he's like not

838
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: I think. I mean. John Harper is my all time

839
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: favorite horror director. But the depth of Wes's like generosity

840
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: to younger people is really something that truly touched me

841
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 2: in this episode, even just the way that he gave

842
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: feedback to actors and talk to.

843
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 3: People, which we'll talk about Jamie Kennedy thing this goal. Yeah,

844
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 3: the only time I'll ever say that Jamie Caning was cool.

845
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: He empowered Jamie Kennedy to make Miami's Most Wanted anyway, Sorry,

846
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: keep going.

847
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 3: The Weinsteins were both predictably bullish. You say about the

848
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: tone of the film. Bob Weinstein told Vanity Fair, I

849
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 3: didn't want it to be a parody. He met with

850
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 3: the writer Kevin Williamson and said, Kevin, I want to

851
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 3: make sure I bought the script. I think I bought.

852
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 3: Is it a funny movie with scares or is it

853
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: a scary movie with humor? Very good point Williamson responded,

854
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: it's a scary movie with humor, to which Bob responded, good,

855
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 3: that's the way I saw it, but you've got the

856
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: wrong title. He'll remember that the title was originally scary movie,

857
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: which is a little on the nose and also hilarious

858
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 3: given the scary movie that we know about today. According

859
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 3: to Bob Weinstein, it was actually his brother, the actual

860
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 3: living monster, Harvey Weinstein, who came up with the new

861
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 3: title from a Michael Jackson song out that year. Kind

862
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: of surprised that MJ's team didn't sue.

863
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: Was the Michael Jackson Janet Jackson song that was like

864
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: one of the most expensive music videos of all the

865
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: time because they were I think it's still all this

866
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: crazy early CGI with it. Song sucks, but still yeah.

867
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, song sucked. Then I'm surprised that one of the

868
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 3: Jackson's didn't sue.

869
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: Oh my god, other things on his mind too soon

870
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: as you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

871
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 2: more too much information after these messages.

872
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 3: Once the movie moved into official production, though, Drew Barrymore

873
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 3: changed her mind and told Williamson that she only wanted

874
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 3: to be in the opening scene. This actually delighted Williamson, though,

875
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: because he'd been influenced by Psycho, in which Janet Lee,

876
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: introduced as the obstensible star of the film, is killed

877
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: off early on spoiler.

878
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: Give her a thirty year old movie, Yeah.

879
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 3: Psycho, sixty five year old movie.

880
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 2: Well yeah.

881
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 3: Producer Mary and Madelena suggested that Barrymore wanted to leave

882
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 3: the production altogether, but was afraid of running a foul

883
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 3: of the Weinstein's Ooh, yeah, I told you my my

884
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 3: Weinstein story. Right, well, let me rephrase that. Yeah, buddy,

885
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 3: I knew something. It was like a friend of a

886
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: friend who worked at the Weinstein office, and apparently there

887
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 3: was like an edict that you couldn't have like bowls

888
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 3: of candy on your desk because Harvey just had no

889
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 3: self control, as we've since discovered, and would just just

890
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 3: eat it all, to the point where he would just

891
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 3: like regularly vomit in his office from eating too much candy.

892
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 2: Oh do that's foul? Ugh God, there is no way

893
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: in which that gloop. There's no way in which that

894
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 2: man will get worse.

895
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 3: With the lead role of Sidney Prescott vacated, production began

896
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: casting about for a new cast.

897
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: I wrote that. Well.

898
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: Yes, Vanessa Shaw of hocus Pocus and Reese Witherspoon were

899
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: looked at, but Witherspoon, who was to be fair at nineteen,

900
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: looked much younger than the rest of the cast. Well,

901
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 3: Kevin Williamson's first choice of Molly Ringwald turned it down

902
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 3: because she said she was too old to play a

903
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: high schooler. How old would she have been. She would

904
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 3: have been like twenty, she would have been like pushing thirty.

905
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like so with the rest of them, probably,

906
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 2: but uh, you know, like there's that whole Hollywood grace period,

907
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 2: I guess before now when everybody just looks like an

908
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: airbrushed in Instagram model. But you know, you used to

909
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: get away with casting twenty five year olds as teens.

910
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, I mean in Greece, wore don't we

911
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 3: talking about how like Stuckard Channing was pushing. I want

912
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: to say she was pushing like forty yeah, yeah, something like.

913
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 2: I mean the film the medium of film was more

914
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: forgiving back then, you know, like actually literally than digital.

915
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: So but I just I mean, that seems like the

916
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 2: kind of thing Molly Ringwold would do because she is

917
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: self aware and like by all accounts a relatively lovely person.

918
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wait, I take that back, Stuckard Channing was

919
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 3: like thirty four, okay, so younger than we are now

920
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: a really bad news huggle.

921
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 2: We can't start in Greece anymore.

922
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 3: We've aged out of height, aged out of high school roles.

923
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: When I was in high school, I was cast as

924
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 3: all the I used to get stopped and shown hall

925
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 3: passes by the underclassmen. In high school, I was always

926
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 3: I always had roles in drama because I was always

927
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 3: cast as the adult. I remember we did I Love

928
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 3: Lucy and I was Fred, which was a bummer. It

929
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: was Vince Fontaine and Greece. Speaking of Greece, any anytime

930
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: they needed a lecherous older man, or like grumpy or stooped,

931
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 3: I was always cast I just get grumpy. Yeah, well

932
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 3: you were like King Lear, weren't you.

933
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: Oh stop bringing that up, all right?

934
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 3: Were so? Okay? Who else would I looked at? For

935
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: Sydney Prescott. The final choices came down to Alicia Witt

936
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 3: then of the sitcom Sybil. I Love Alicia Witch. She

937
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: was in mister Holland's Opus. She was the clarinet player

938
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: that he's trying to teach how to play the Redhead.

939
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: She was dating or married to Ben Folds for a while.

940
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 3: She's great. Okay, she's from near my hometown. She's from Worcester, Massachusetts.

941
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 3: I think both of her parents died in a carbon

942
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 3: monoxide leak not too long ago. Google that. Google that.

943
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 3: Check me see if I have my my local hometown.

944
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 3: Girl makes good loar.

945
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 2: That makes good lore.

946
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 3: When her parents died, oh, Brittany Murphy, oh, also is considered.

947
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: Who do we ever forget how she died? Because then

948
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: her like husband died similarly.

949
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus christ dude, Well yeah, her parents were found

950
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: frozen to death.

951
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 3: Oh that was it.

952
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they were like hoarders and refused to let

953
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: anyone into the into their home for repairs or anything.

954
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 3: And it was in Worcester. More importantly, it was in

955
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 3: driving distance in my father's house. It was in It

956
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: was in worcesters near the Polar Beverage factory. My favorite Seltzer.

957
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 3: Jesus christy. Yeah, that's a bummer. But she's great. And

958
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 3: ned Campbell was the third that made the final cut,

959
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 3: and Nev Campbell as herself.

960
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if there was a starring nev Campbell

961
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 2: as herself. She was a professional ballerina before this Campbell.

962
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 2: If Campbell, I think Alicia Whitt was too check me

963
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: on that. Stop bringing up Alicia Witt, Jamie. Can we

964
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: pull up Alicia WIT's dead parents?

965
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: Man?

966
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: What happened to? Was there a thing with Brittany Murphy?

967
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 3: I forget Uh, there was a theory that there was

968
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 3: like some kind of weird mold in the house or something.

969
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 3: That is, they both died of like weird respiratory things

970
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 3: within like a couple months of each other.

971
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, because her husband was found dead in their home later. Yeah,

972
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 2: you're right about that, Dan.

973
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been like

974
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 3: a one of those like TMZ ABC News specials.

975
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 2: I think everyone just loved her too much and it

976
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: was so sad Brittany Murphy. Yeah, I know, yeah really was.

977
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 3: Today's the eighteenth anniversary of Back to Black coming up.

978
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: Just bringing in tragic young women.

979
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: Huh. Yeah. Keiths breast Specialty.

980
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: Campbell, who is a beautiful, chestnut mare of a woman,

981
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: started in the Craft within May of ninety six, and

982
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: he is now obviously indelibly linked with the Scream franchise

983
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 2: and the character of Sidney Prescott, but after the casting

984
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 2: Kerfluffel in the recent reboots, I sort of hate her.

985
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: To briefly sum that up, they relaunched, they relaunched Scream

986
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 2: in twenty one, and she has a cameo where David

987
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 2: Arquette like calls her character and is like, don't come

988
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: back to Woodsboro. There's another ghost Face and she was like, Okay,

989
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: I won't. That's it. And she didn't come back for

990
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: six because even though Courtney Cox and David Arquette came

991
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: back for five, Courtney Cox was also in six, but

992
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: Nev Campbell kept holding out. She was like quoting too

993
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: high a price, and the lead actress, Melissa Barrera, who

994
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: is in The Heights, basically got a little too real

995
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: about Israeli and Palestine and production canned her and brought

996
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: back Nev Campbell, and Nev Campbell has not addressed that.

997
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 3: Oh man, dude, I just got it. I finally just

998
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 3: got it. Ghost Face Killer. It's a Scream reference.

999
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: No, no, I.

1000
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 3: Actually don't think it is. Wu Tang predated Scream. See

1001
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: you were correct, Yeah, yeah, because they did well.

1002
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 2: It's funny because Wu Tang did a whole thing.

1003
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: You know.

1004
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: They were so into the grindhouse stuff, like not just

1005
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: the The Shaw Brothers seventy stuff, but also horror movie

1006
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: and there's a there's a a Wu Tang side project

1007
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: called Grave Diggas. It's like horror rap. So anyway, think

1008
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: of that what you will. Uh Yeah, so that sucks

1009
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: and five Cream is good. Scream six Cream I didn't

1010
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:50,959
Speaker 2: like as much, and I will just not be seeing

1011
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 2: the seventh one anyway. Matthew Lillard auditioned for the male lead,

1012
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 2: eventually played by Skeet Ulrich, whose actual name is Brian

1013
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: ray Trout, but he went with Skeet Ulrich so low

1014
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 2: and I had this conversation last night. Ulrick was his

1015
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: stepfather's name, who actually raised him. And there's actually a

1016
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: horrific trauma at the base of this joke because Ulrick's

1017
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 2: birth father actually kidnapped him and his brother in like

1018
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 2: a deranged custody move and just traveled around with them

1019
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 2: for like three years across three different states before finally

1020
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 2: giving up the ghost and returning them to their mother

1021
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: and stepfather. And Skeat is a derivation of Skeeter, which

1022
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: was just a Little league baseball name from his coach.

1023
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: But yes, it's very stupid as far as a screen name.

1024
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 3: Wow wow wow wow.

1025
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. We'll also get to the We'll get to another

1026
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: traumatic childhood incident for young Skeet later. Anyway, Matthew Lillard

1027
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: auditioned for the lead and was told you're not the

1028
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: right guy to make out with Nev Campbell the entire time.

1029
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 2: Why don't you come back in for the best friend? Ulrick,

1030
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: who was then quoted next in Entertainment Weekly's Oral History, said,

1031
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: with possible malice, I'll have a with Matt about that.

1032
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: I think you should let that go by now. This

1033
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 2: is all made funnier by the fact that Lillard and

1034
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 2: Campbell started dating during the production of Scream and stayed

1035
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: together for two years. Also hilarious. In a twenty two

1036
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: interview with Vulture, Matthew Lillard said of the movie, it's

1037
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: not a perfect movie. I think the opening sequence is incredible,

1038
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 2: and the middle of the movie sort of gets bogged down.

1039
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 2: Then the end sequence, the last twenty minutes is incredible.

1040
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 3: Apparently, Matthew Lillard was accompanying his girlfriend to auditions somewhere

1041
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 3: else in the building, and the casting director for Scream

1042
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 3: saw him and encouraged him audition another one of those

1043
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: I mean salt grain No, I just I guess it's

1044
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 3: worse if you if someone looked at him and was like.

1045
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 2: You'd be a good second banana as a deraanded serial killer.

1046
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 2: Production was iing Vince Vaughn for the role that went

1047
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 2: to Alrich.

1048
00:54:55,560 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 5: I guess because singers swingers come out too, But like,

1049
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 5: I don't know where that would have been in the

1050
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 5: production release cycle of of Scream, So I don't know.

1051
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 3: Alrighty Brunette was soulful ozz.

1052
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how they went with Ulrich. Or we have

1053
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 2: Johnny Depp at home.

1054
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 3: He does. He is good in that though, and he's

1055
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: going as good as it gets too as the troubled

1056
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 3: like guy that you want to believe is good but

1057
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 3: you know that there's something bad.

1058
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 2: He's great in this movie. He is obviously a QTE

1059
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 2: and it just becomes so menacing. Yeah. And he'd started

1060
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: with Nef Campbell in the Craft, so that contributed to

1061
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: their chemistry. He, however, did not realize that the film

1062
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 2: had any comedic overtones. He went deep into his role,

1063
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: researching famous teen killers like Leopold and Loeb and the

1064
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 2: Menendez Brothers, and therefore, on the first day of shooting,

1065
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: he was somewhat taken aback by Jamie Kennedy and Matthew

1066
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: Lillard's let's say, broad performances.

1067
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 3: That makes it work so well?

1068
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he told it Entertainment Weekly. I remember thinking, what

1069
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: are they doing? Don't they know? This isn't funny, This

1070
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 2: isn't supposed to be funny. And man, I was wrong.

1071
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 3: I was on skeetz Wikipedia page. Apparently he enjoys woodworking

1072
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: and gardening. Sweet boy lovely.

1073
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 2: I know, I regret. I regret taking that stray. Yeah,

1074
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: taking a potshot at Skeet.

1075
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 3: To be fair, even Matthew Lillard admits that the pair

1076
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 3: his on Jamie Kennedy's maniacal performance at the film's end

1077
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 3: is one hundred percent scenery chewing, as you describe. And

1078
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: I second, he told Vulture, we were crazy. If I

1079
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: ever saw somebody do that on a set, I'd be like, dude,

1080
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 3: bring it down fifty eight percent. Lillard has one of

1081
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: the film's most hilarious ad libs when Alrich throws a

1082
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 3: cordless pone at him, which wasn't in the script. Lillard

1083
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: genuinely reacts you mean with the phone, Dick.

1084
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: My hehole performance is incredible. I mean everyone cited this.

1085
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: My Mom's gonna be so mad at me. But he's

1086
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: like covered in blood, like drooling. It's really nuts.

1087
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 3: All our colleges that Wes Craven told him to throw

1088
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 3: the phone at Matthew just to see what he would do,

1089
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 3: blaming the director. One of the other oldest traits of

1090
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 3: the book.

1091
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: I do like his funny like Wes craved like thoughtfully

1092
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 2: puts like the frame of his eyeglass in his mouth,

1093
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: and he's like, Matthew, throw the phone at him. Let's

1094
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 2: see what happens.

1095
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 3: Let's see what happens again, A very professorial yeah thing

1096
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 3: to say.

1097
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: The precise stature of Lillard and Rick's character's relationship was

1098
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 2: almost immediately questioned, especially by queer fans of the movie,

1099
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 2: but it took a little while for the principles involved

1100
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: to admit the seemingly obvious subtexts. And this movie was

1101
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: influenced by the Leopold Loeb case, and of course, anyone

1102
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 2: who has seen Alfred Hitchcock's movie Rope, which is a

1103
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 2: take on that case, will recognize the mid century closeted

1104
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 2: overtones of that relationship. Leopold and Loeb never caught to

1105
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: it themselves, but it was a widely speculated situation in

1106
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: which one of them was like kind of the alpha

1107
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 2: and the other one was in love with him and

1108
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 2: just kind of went along with it. But while Kevin

1109
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 2: Williamson came out to his friends and family in nineteen

1110
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: ninety two, he gave an interview with ps dot Com

1111
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: into twenty twenty two, and he told them that he

1112
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: was very hesitant to present the gay side of me

1113
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 2: in my work at the time, resulting in the queerness

1114
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 2: of characters Billy and Stu being quote a little codd

1115
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: and maybe accidental. Looking back, he told the site, now

1116
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: maybe I'd be braver, Maybe I wouldn't be that shy

1117
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: little gay writer who felt like he couldn't get away

1118
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: with it. Williamson then elaborated on the queer readings that

1119
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 2: are inherent into the coore genre. It's always the survival

1120
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 2: tales that connect us. I think that's one of the

1121
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: reasons Final Girls are so important to us as a

1122
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: gay audience. Prior to Scream, he said, he related to

1123
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: Jamie Lee Curtis and Halloween because I know what It's like,

1124
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 2: I think gay kids everywhere understand that survival element that

1125
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: we have to sort of create in ourselves, and then

1126
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 2: when we're watching the final girl have to prove herself

1127
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: and rise to the challenge and save her life. I

1128
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: think that's something gay kids everywhere can relate to. Lillard,

1129
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 2: with much less subtlety, addressed the rumors at Seattle Comic

1130
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 2: Con in twenty twenty three. Stu and Billy were definitely

1131
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: gay and like Ski Orick is like, uh what. But

1132
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: then Lillard continues and he says, I said it to

1133
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,959
Speaker 2: the twentieth anniversary with Kevin. Somebody asked, are they gay?

1134
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: I was like, they're definitely gay, right Kevin? And Kevin

1135
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: was like probably. So there's all that.

1136
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: Matthew Lillard doesn't strike me as terribly intelligent.

1137
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 2: He's I have such a soft spot for him though,

1138
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: because of this and Thirteen Ghosts.

1139
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: Which she's all that too.

1140
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 2: M I was listening to comedy around the comedies around

1141
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 2: this time, but also SLC Punk, which is like such

1142
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 2: a fantastic under the radar movie that was so huge

1143
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 2: for me and my high school buddies.

1144
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 3: Just could we do the movie? No? It was a

1145
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 3: really good shaggy Courtney Cox was off of the part

1146
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 3: of these scheming journalists. Gail Weathers by think of Carl Weathers.

1147
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 3: Gail Weathers by one of the film's producers in her

1148
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 3: manager's office, and she jumped at the chance to play

1149
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 3: a character that was a little against type. She was

1150
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 3: well into her friend's role at this time, she told

1151
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 3: the Hollywood Reporter, But I had to convince Wez, so

1152
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 3: I wrote him a letter and assured him that being

1153
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 3: a bitch wouldn't be a stretch at all, leaving that

1154
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 3: one there anything to say about that. Okay, Brookshields and

1155
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 3: Janine Garofflo were also considered, who both would have been good.

1156
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 3: The other principal female lead, Rose McGowan, had to audition

1157
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 3: for the film twice when her agent demanded two hundred

1158
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 3: and fifty thousand dollars instead of the offered fifty thousand.

1159
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 3: That's insanely low.

1160
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 2: Well, and it's up too. I mean this has been

1161
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: cast as like her being difficult, and she's even an

1162
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 2: interview seid, like my agent was too aggressive and like

1163
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 2: fed it up. But everyone else was offered one hundred

1164
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: k and she was offered fifty, So there was already

1165
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 2: some disparity there. I also think Rose McGowan has been

1166
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: was like one of Harvey's victims, so that's like, oh, oh,

1167
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 2: she was one of the I mean she launched me. Yeah,

1168
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: she was behind it a lot of me too stuff,

1169
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: but like, I don't know that it was. Oh so

1170
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: she said he actually didn't assault her until nineteen ninety seven,

1171
01:00:53,080 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: which cool that it wasn't in this movie.

1172
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 3: Well for this movie, making matters a little sadder. She

1173
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 3: ended up just backtracking and taking the fifty grand. Yeah,

1174
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 3: which makes me sad because she's my favorite character in

1175
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 3: this movie.

1176
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a treat.

1177
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 3: She deliberately dyed her hair blonde to contrast with Nev Campbell's.

1178
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 3: She said, I hated that color she was talking to

1179
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 3: e W, but it was perfect for the film. Her

1180
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 3: character's death scene, which is kind of the moment when

1181
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 3: I check out of the movie.

1182
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: We go back to the stuff you're saying about her

1183
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 2: wardrobe and yeah.

1184
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 3: So I guess the wardrobe department wanted her to be

1185
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 3: like more of a tomboy and gave her all these

1186
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 3: like overalls and things that she was like, no, I'm

1187
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 3: not going to do that, And she apparently got into

1188
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 3: a cab and went out shopping and came back with

1189
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 3: the stuff that we see her in, which we're all

1190
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 3: very like extremely nineties hot slut.

1191
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 2: Sure, I probably can't keep saying that. No, okay, cool,

1192
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 2: you know more about the rules of horror than I do.

1193
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: That is that a is that an archetype? Thirty rock reftords.

1194
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 2: At one point, someone walks into Jack's office and Liz goes, now,

1195
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 2: who's this hot slut? Anyway? Yeah, and then she also

1196
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 2: like one of the other things she talked about is

1197
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: that like the set decorator had given her like Indigo

1198
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: Girls posters and stuff.

1199
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1200
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, she went and like ripped them down. She was like,

1201
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 2: that is not what this character would listen to. I

1202
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: love that. There's definitely well there's I think there's some.

1203
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 2: But she was just like she was like really took

1204
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: ownership of like the character as it appears in the film.

1205
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: It was not how it was written or intended by production.

1206
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 2: Bless Indeed. I love a spunky, spitfire. Yeah, sharp tongued.

1207
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 2: Everything I just said sounds bad, Yeah, it does. It's

1208
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 2: got to be a better way. It's gotta be a

1209
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 2: better way to say, fix it. And post brassy.

1210
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 3: Maybe call her brassy woman just just takes no guff yeah, yeah, witty, hilarious,

1211
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: no guff yeah, sticks up her sauce. What oh the

1212
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 3: garage scene. Oh yeah, the garage scene. Thank you. Her

1213
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 3: character's death scene was a big piece of the set's climax,

1214
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: but it occasionally veered into chaos. Well, Pelton goes face

1215
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: with beer bottles, but she didn't have to do. She

1216
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 3: reached the door and couldn't turned the doorknob and made

1217
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 3: it out, but she stopped wet back, picked up beer

1218
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 3: bottles on the ground that she dropped and threw them

1219
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 3: at the killer, which I mean, again is what I

1220
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 3: love about her. She was not gonna just run from him.

1221
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 3: She was going to attack him. She was just fighter.

1222
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 2: But it's oh oh, that was her fatal flaw. And

1223
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 2: also not wearing a bra, would you sub you? She

1224
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: accidentally It sounds so creepy. It was northern California in

1225
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 2: an unheated garage, but it is like, obviously the thing

1226
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 2: that everyone notices about that scene.

1227
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 3: She accidentally hit a camera with a beer bottle and

1228
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 3: shattered a lens, which I can't imagine was cheap.

1229
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah right, they were shooting an anamorphic too, oh, which

1230
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 2: we'll get to.

1231
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Rose McGowan was so small that she actually had

1232
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 3: to be nailed to the garage door by her shirt

1233
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 3: because she kept slipping through the doggie door.

1234
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: That she was wedged in.

1235
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 3: It's a dumb death, it is.

1236
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: It is funny because when she was talking to e

1237
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 2: W she was like, I've gotten into my house when

1238
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 2: being locked out multiple times that way.

1239
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 3: I actually my aunt's elderly neighbor was killed by a

1240
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 3: garage door that malfunctioned and closed on him.

1241
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 2: Jesus did it just like drop heavily?

1242
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know. It's very final destination. Okay, yeah,

1243
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know if he was just old

1244
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 3: and like the Austin power is seen when the thing

1245
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 3: is slowly moving towards the guard, it just screams for

1246
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 3: like ninety seconds.

1247
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, I don't know.

1248
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 3: I shouldn't joke about that. But I didn't know him,

1249
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 3: so he's an abstraction to me. Good this really, this

1250
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 3: episode's bringing out my worst good. Oh where am i? Oh?

1251
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 3: The role of Randy, the guy who knows all the

1252
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 3: rules about surviving horror films Seth Green, Jason Lee, and

1253
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 3: Breck and Meyer all auditioned for the role. All of them.

1254
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 3: They would have been gone, Well, Jason Lee is a

1255
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,919
Speaker 3: little too alpha, but Seth Y and Breck Andmeira they work.

1256
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 2: They have beta energy.

1257
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah right, I'm not wrong, right, Yeah, you're right. As

1258
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 3: I ask for your approval as to whether or not

1259
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 3: someone is a beta, as my voice gets higher and higher,

1260
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 3: my voice cracks. Oh. Jamie Kennedy ultimately won the role

1261
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 3: and has a really sweet story about Wes Craven shooting

1262
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 3: that scene. Oh you should take this. I know I

1263
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 3: love how much you love this.

1264
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is one of the aforementioned Durable West

1265
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: creator and anecdotes. Kennedy was talking to Entertainment Weekly. They

1266
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 2: did a big oral history and a bunch of interviews casts.

1267
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 2: We're gonna be citing them along, but he was saying

1268
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: Craven liked his first take. He was like, I think

1269
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 2: that's good. But Kennedy was like, I can do better.

1270
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 2: So he did a second and then a third, and

1271
01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 2: then he said afterward, Wes said cut print great and

1272
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 2: said how do you feel? And I said I feel good.

1273
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: He said, well, I want to tell you I'm probably

1274
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 2: going to use the third take. Never be scared to

1275
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 2: ask for another take. Always trust your instincts. That was

1276
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 2: a big lesson for me, not to be scared. That

1277
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 2: scene really helped me for my whole career, which is

1278
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: sweet like that. But again, Miami's Most Wanted Will he

1279
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 2: helped me when I was making Miami's Most Wanted. And

1280
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 2: the masked son of Mask?

1281
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 3: Was he the son of Masque?

1282
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: He was in some dog Mask sequel.

1283
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 3: Well, you'll be pleased to know that Matthew Lillard and

1284
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 3: Nev Campbell weren't the only couple that came out of Scream.

1285
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 3: David Arquette cast says the good natured, if ineffectual Deputy

1286
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 3: Dewey met Courtney Cox at the first read. The Dewey

1287
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 3: was written as more of a dumb jock. Arquette decided

1288
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 3: to play the character. It was a frustrated John Wayne

1289
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 3: want to be whose authority is constantly being undercut. David

1290
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 3: Arquette was said to be very excited to act with

1291
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,439
Speaker 3: Courtney Cox. She was less enthused. Initially we all got

1292
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 3: cast Wes had had us out at his house our

1293
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 3: Kat's talking to the ringer. I saw Courtney and was like, hey,

1294
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 3: I'm playing Dewey and she's like yeah, I heard about

1295
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 3: you or something like that. She gave me some real attitude.

1296
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 3: I love him in this movie. I normally hate David Arquette,

1297
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 3: but he's so good in this movie. Like I love

1298
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 3: how when when the ghost Face calls Sydney at their

1299
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 3: house and he's like long off the phone, but then

1300
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 3: he like grabs the phone. It's like hello, yeah, yeah, it's.

1301
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: A great it's it's a great role for him, and

1302
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 2: it is so I mean, he comes back in the

1303
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 2: fifth one and has this unbelievably heartbreaking scene where he's

1304
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: like it's actually short, but he like wordlessly wakes up

1305
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 2: in his trailer and like goes and pours himself his

1306
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: morning coffee and whiskey and then like sits down and

1307
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 2: watches Gail on her new anchor show, like on the

1308
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 2: National News, and he's like does a lot of great

1309
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 2: wordless acting in that scene. And it's just so fraught because, like,

1310
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 2: you know, they got together on this movie and had

1311
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 2: a child and divorced. So he plays that whole dynamic

1312
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 2: like there's so much real life history in there, and

1313
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 2: he's talked about how they co parent their kids, so

1314
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: they have like a good friendship and relationship as parents.

1315
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 2: But like man, he brings a ton of pathos to

1316
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 2: that fifth movie. It's like, honestly, one of my favorite

1317
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: things about it their dimension where they like, you know,

1318
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 2: he says like at one point, he says, like I

1319
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:31,719
Speaker 2: left in the middle of the night, like a coward,

1320
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 2: something like that, and she says, You're many things, but

1321
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 2: you are not a coward. And it's like one of

1322
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 2: the sweetest moments I've seen in a horror movie.

1323
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,440
Speaker 3: Did he bring any of that to Eight Legged Freaks.

1324
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 2: Or as many wrestling movies?

1325
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 3: Now?

1326
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 2: The Archets are just so sad, man, I mean, they

1327
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 2: had their Alexis had such a sad life and death.

1328
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 3: And anyway, I don't know much about Roseann Arquet, No

1329
01:08:59,400 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 3: one does.

1330
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 2: They are related, right, No, I think Patricia's widely considered

1331
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 2: the best one.

1332
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:11,640
Speaker 3: She's got an Academy Award for what Boyhood? Yeah, all right, So,

1333
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 3: the as.

1334
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 2: We mentioned, the pair got together over the course filming.

1335
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: Jamie Kennedy told Entertainment Weekly we had a table read

1336
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,759
Speaker 2: and their characters just had a lot of interaction. I said, Jesus,

1337
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 2: that's really good chemistry. Afterwards, we were going home to

1338
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 2: the airport. We all shared a limo and I was

1339
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 2: literally like, Okay, that wasn't acting. They were just getting

1340
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 2: along so well in the limousine. I was like, I'll

1341
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 2: just sit on this side of the partition. It was

1342
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: actually very beautiful. It was very nice to see people

1343
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 2: fall in love. Cox and Arquette got married in nineteen

1344
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 2: ninety nine and have a daughter together, Although I as mentioned,

1345
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 2: they ultimately split in twenty thirteen. He's talked openly about

1346
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: how her one million dollar per episode's success on Friends

1347
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 2: affected their relationship. Random Casting notes Leev Schreiber got twenty

1348
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 2: thousand dollars for a role given to him by Bob

1349
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:56,480
Speaker 2: Weinstein in an unrelated meeting.

1350
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: So.

1351
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 2: Bully for him. One of the franchise's best jokes is

1352
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 2: that the wrongfully arrested character Schreiber plays is named Cotton Weary,

1353
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 2: and then he later parlays his notoriety into a news

1354
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 2: show called one hundred percent Cotton God. Yeah, I waited

1355
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,719
Speaker 2: for that one to hit. Henry Wrinkler is the school principal.

1356
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: Westbraven also stuck Suck in Linda Blair as a reporter

1357
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: he'd worked with her on the TV movie Stranger in

1358
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 2: My House in nineteen seventy eight. He also makes a

1359
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 2: cameo himself, dresses in Freddy Krueger's outfit as the high

1360
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 2: school janitor, staring right at the camera I believe. And

1361
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 2: he also cast a guy in the original Nightmare on

1362
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 2: Elmstreet who played a cop as the Woodsboro Sheriff, which

1363
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 2: I just love. So now onto the voice of the

1364
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 2: film's Killer Killers spoiler the movie is almost thirty years old,

1365
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 2: Roger L. Jackson. Sensibly the characters throughout this entire franchise

1366
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 2: have used the same model of voice modulator to disguise

1367
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 2: their voices, but it's always been Roger L. Jackson in

1368
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 2: every single Scream. He was also the voice of Mojo

1369
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 2: Jojo on Powerpuff Girls, which is funny Ojo Jojo. The

1370
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 2: role that led Jackson to Scream was actually Tim Burton's

1371
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,799
Speaker 2: Mars Attacks, which he provided the voice of the alien

1372
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 2: translator device, So I guess something about that guy's voice

1373
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: just screams mechanically modulated. He auditioned for Scream with Drew

1374
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 2: Barrymore because she wanted a real actor to play against,

1375
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 2: not some pa blankly reading lines, He told the ringer

1376
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 2: I was working as a voice actor living in San

1377
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 2: Francisco and went in for the audition with a lot

1378
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: of other people. The audition script was the first scene

1379
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 2: from the film The Opener. I heard some of the

1380
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 2: other people in the waiting room saying, my agent says,

1381
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 2: they're looking for new Freddy Krueger because this was Dimension

1382
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 2: and Wes Craven. But in reading over the scene, I thought,

1383
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 2: this is not Freddy Krueger. This is subtle, he would

1384
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 2: continue device. I knew it had to be a sexy

1385
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 2: voice and something interesting enough to keep the girl on

1386
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 2: the phone, even though she clearly.

1387
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 3: Wants to hang up. He sounds interesting. There's this texture

1388
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 3: and erotic color to his voice. It's like a cat

1389
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 3: that seems sweet and playful, and then all of a sudden,

1390
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 3: the Paul comes down onto the mouse's tail. I wanted

1391
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 3: the voice to change color as ghost Face goes in

1392
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 3: for the kill, sort of like a cat does. Okay,

1393
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 3: he thought.

1394
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 2: A lot about it.

1395
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and it gets even more troubling. Jackson was

1396
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 3: kept isolated from the cast, but he always did his

1397
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 3: scenes live, which meant that the actors literally knew someone

1398
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 3: was watching them as they talked, but they didn't know

1399
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 3: who or presumably where. Jackson said that Craven gave him

1400
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 3: some room to adapt the lines, something that he remembers

1401
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 3: with alarming relish. He would say, he'd let me improvise

1402
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 3: so I could be really creative. I remember I said

1403
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 3: something not in the script, like have you ever felt

1404
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 3: a knife cut through human flesh and scraped the bone underneath?

1405
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 3: I read that like the guy from Airplane. You ever

1406
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 3: been in a Turkish bath? Johnny? Have you ever felt

1407
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 3: a knife cut through human flesh and scrape the bone

1408
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 3: underneath Johnny? Like Gladiator movies? Yeah. Another one I was

1409
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 3: proud of was when I told nev that I would

1410
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 3: cut out her eyelids so she couldn't blink while I stabbed.

1411
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 2: Her to death.

1412
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 3: Wow. Okay uh. Later, Jackson tells the vice interviewer, if

1413
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 3: I ever kill someone, I just want to kill them

1414
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 3: as me, not ghost face. Let's let's pick that apart.

1415
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 3: I just want to be seen as as the killer

1416
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 3: inside me.

1417
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 2: Now. He was prompted this. They were like, do you

1418
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 2: ever call anyone up and randomly with the like prank

1419
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 2: call people with a ghost face voice? He was like no,

1420
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: and then he said that creepy thing. I mean, I

1421
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 2: guess he's doing a bit, but like, I don't know. Man,

1422
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 2: he's like, just look at not the judge of book

1423
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 2: byites cover.

1424
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 3: But you know, let's see, I was not what I

1425
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 3: expected this man to look like. Wow, okay, yeah, yeah yeah. Well.

1426
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 2: Production for production for Scream was largely set the quaint

1427
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 2: little wine country town of Santa Rosa. Our former coworker

1428
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 2: Ben Trivett, who does listened to this podcast, also lives there.

1429
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 2: It's a harrow fifty miles from San Francisco. The town

1430
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 2: was not unacquainted with Hollywood movies like Peggy Sue Got

1431
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 2: Married and Inventing the Abbots were shot at its high school,

1432
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 2: while the city itself has served as a backdrop for

1433
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 2: everything from Alfred Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt to Stop

1434
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 2: or my moum will Shoot Hitchcook Love Northern California. Yeah,

1435
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:29,480
Speaker 2: wonder why it's gorgeous?

1436
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 3: I mean I didn't mean it like that.

1437
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 2: No, Birds is uh, Birds's Bodega Bay and budget and

1438
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 2: you know, obviously offerdigo of San Francisco, so oh it's cool.

1439
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 2: Scream production wanted to use Santa Ros's High School as well,

1440
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:43,640
Speaker 2: and claimed that they got a verbal agreement from the

1441
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 2: principal which they based their shooting schedule around, but they

1442
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: never actually made it there. First, the city claimed that

1443
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,639
Speaker 2: the crew hadn't fired the proper paperwork, and even after

1444
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: that had been resolved, the school reneged on its supposed offer,

1445
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 2: saying it conflicted with final exams. In the film's DVD commentary,

1446
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 2: Wes Craven says, there was actually Rose McGown and Nev

1447
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 2: Campbell's dialogue about twenty minutes in that caused the district

1448
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 2: to bulk And.

1449
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 3: What was that? Was? I just all about life.

1450
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 2: It's like their interest scene where they're bantering back and

1451
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 2: forth about good.

1452
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 3: Stand next to me in English class? Well, she did

1453
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 3: not in the.

1454
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 2: Mood yeah, I guts and stuff. The movie was really

1455
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 2: how do you gut someone? The movie was relocated to

1456
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 2: the Sonoma Community Center and entire scenes, huge swaths of

1457
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 2: the movie, because this was set in high school, were

1458
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 2: rewritten to accommodate the switch. As we get to later,

1459
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 2: Craven was already at odds with the Weinstein's about budget

1460
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:37,480
Speaker 2: and production matters, so the extra expenses were deeply unappreciated.

1461
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,719
Speaker 2: On the DVD commentary, he estimates that the move cost

1462
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 2: production about three hundred and fifty thousand dollars, so in

1463
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 2: the end credits of the film you can see a

1464
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 2: very pointed message no thanks whatsoever to the Santa Rosa

1465
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 2: City School District governing board. Supposedly, Craven took this grudge

1466
01:15:55,439 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 2: further off screen and started a never confirmed publicly boycott

1467
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,719
Speaker 2: of Santa Rosa and Sonoma County. I was a producer

1468
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 2: named Daniel Ferrins who is actually a graduate of Santa

1469
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 2: Rosa High told Horror dot Com in twenty eleven, Santa

1470
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,679
Speaker 2: Rosa is very high in the Hollywood Blacklist of places

1471
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 2: not to take your productions, But Hollywood Reporter journalist Dana

1472
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 2: Harris contradicted that to the Sonoma County Independent in nineteen

1473
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: ninety nine, saying the idea of there being a blacklist

1474
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 2: against a particular county is ridiculous. It's a complex industry

1475
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 2: and annoying things happen all the time. When a community

1476
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: does something unfriendly. There may be some gossip or something

1477
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 2: for the short term, and it might stop some people

1478
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 2: from filming there. But believe me, there isn't some master

1479
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 2: puppeteer distributing blacklists and dictating where people can go to

1480
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:43,520
Speaker 2: make their films, which I say not true, and if true,

1481
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 2: a bummer.

1482
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 3: Anyway. Because of the relative isolation of northern California from Hollywood,

1483
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 3: the cast bonded easily during the shoot. They had fond

1484
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 3: memories of staying at the Double Tree Hotel, mostly because

1485
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 3: they had fresh baked cookies daily. This whole anecdote's very

1486
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 3: meee code. Every day they give you a fresh cookie,

1487
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 3: Jamie Kennedy said, And I know it sounds stupid, but

1488
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 3: it was just so good. Every day. I felt like

1489
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 3: I had a little treat. If I did a good scene,

1490
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:14,000
Speaker 3: I'd eat my cookie. Presumably if he did a bad scene,

1491
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 3: he would also eat his cookie. Cookies were eating. Shooting

1492
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 3: mostly at night. The cast blacked out their windows because

1493
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 3: they'd come back at six am and quote unwined, which

1494
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 3: you speculate mostly meant drinking. David Arquette had a bar

1495
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,640
Speaker 3: installed in his room, which I'm very impressed by. The

1496
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 3: setup included black lights and lava lamps. He seems like

1497
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 3: he just bought out the entire contents of a spencer gifts.

1498
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 2: No, he said, I didn't put this in, but he

1499
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 2: said he went to every local headshop. Nah to a

1500
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 2: mass this collection nev Campbell. Remember, David is nuts, so

1501
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 2: he bought every toy possible that you can buy in

1502
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 2: Santa Rosa and they were all hanging from his ceiling.

1503
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 2: I think it was called David's Bar, David's Club or something.

1504
01:17:57,600 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 2: The cast and crew also had lots of parking lot

1505
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:03,799
Speaker 2: party and even bonfire at one point. Skeet Ulrich told Vulture,

1506
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 2: we did feel like a group of outcasts that came together,

1507
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 2: you know, six am, getting off work and we're rolling

1508
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 2: into the hotel half caked and sticky syrup and blood

1509
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 2: as people are rolling out to go to their wine

1510
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 2: tours and Napa Valley. We must have looked like the

1511
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,679
Speaker 2: most insane group of people in this hotel complex. It's

1512
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 2: not every film that you get to do that. Less

1513
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 2: and less now as we get distracted by so many things.

1514
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 2: It was really an incredible time. He made this very

1515
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 2: interesting comment that like pre smartphones and pre eternal Internet,

1516
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 2: like people bonded on film shoots so much more because

1517
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 2: you were there was downtime where you would hang out

1518
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 2: and you didn't just he said. He said, nowadays everybody

1519
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 2: just everyone just disappears into their phone. That's sad.

1520
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it reminds me of the story of the Robie

1521
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 3: Williams Crinkly eyed school movie The Cider House Dead Poets Society.

1522
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 3: There is, writes to me, the story from the Dead

1523
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 3: Poets Society where all the boys were getting up to

1524
01:18:58,920 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 3: high jinks in the hotel.

1525
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what everyone says. One of the other things

1526
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 2: quotes about this was like people talk about, like I

1527
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 2: hate shooting in La because in La you just everyone

1528
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 2: goes back to the formats, But shooting on location, you're

1529
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,040
Speaker 2: usually all in one hotel or together, he said. They also,

1530
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 2: the thing that comes up constantly is it's like summer camp.

1531
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 3: They can stand by me. They said that too. They

1532
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,519
Speaker 3: would do like theater, games and the rooms and stuff.

1533
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 2: I mean same with Karate Kid, all the all the gang,

1534
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 2: all the bullies were like ripping dirt bikes around like

1535
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 2: a ripro in time.

1536
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

1537
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 1: back with more. Too much information and just a moment.

1538
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 2: I wanted to do a roundup of quotes about how

1539
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:00,759
Speaker 2: nice Wes Craven was, but they're there are too many,

1540
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 2: and we would be here for days. Jamie Kenned who

1541
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 2: described him as a tenured Berkeley professor, But he had

1542
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: a sense of humor about what he was doing. He

1543
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 2: once told Courtney Cox, who asked him for direction, Courtney,

1544
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,559
Speaker 2: what do you think that I've been there? I don't

1545
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 2: know what it feels like to be chased by a knife.

1546
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 2: Apparently he was a bird watcher as well. Kevin Williamson

1547
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 2: said he would sit in his chair, he would be

1548
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 2: doing a crossword puzzle and reading about birds, and then

1549
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,639
Speaker 2: he would just go action and become somebody else. Virtually

1550
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 2: every actor has multiple quotes about how safe and comfortable

1551
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 2: he made them feel in the set shooting this harrowing stuff.

1552
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:36,879
Speaker 2: Arquette it did have one hilarious quote in the Hollywood

1553
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 2: Reporter Oral History. When you do a take and it

1554
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,759
Speaker 2: wasn't what Wes wanted, he'd say, well, David, that's terrible.

1555
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 2: That was absolutely unusable. He laughs. But he says he

1556
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 2: had a way of giving direction to an actor that

1557
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 2: doesn't make them feel like they failed, and it almost

1558
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 2: lifts their spirit up so that in the next take

1559
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 2: you can do it again and have more fun with it,

1560
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 2: faster better and more blood. He'd say it like that.

1561
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 3: Speaking of harrowing the film's opening scene, My God, Kevin

1562
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 3: Williamson described the house as out in the middle of nowhere.

1563
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:09,679
Speaker 3: What was interesting is that there were just two houses

1564
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 3: in these huge fields, and our base camp was at

1565
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 3: the other house where they shot Kujo. That's so great,

1566
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 3: Drew Barrymore said. The scene took five days of night

1567
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 3: shoots to capture. We started on a Monday night and

1568
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 3: we ended on a Friday night at like five in

1569
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 3: the morning. So Saturday morning, okay, is a feeding and

1570
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 3: gremlin after me tonight, I've gun cross that it was

1571
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 3: more or less shot in sequence. And when Barrymore and

1572
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 3: Craven sat down and plotted out, they came up with

1573
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 3: an interesting strategy to coax real tears out of Barrymore.

1574
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 3: She told ew we couldn't have been more on the

1575
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 3: same page. I was like, I never want faked tears.

1576
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:49,799
Speaker 3: I will come up with a mechanism that will actually

1577
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 3: make me cry. I will run around until I'm hyperventilating.

1578
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 3: He and I had this secret story. We would just

1579
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 3: talk about it every time because it made me cry

1580
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 3: every time I thought about it. That worked for tears.

1581
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 3: It didn't work for hyperventilating. I would still have to

1582
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 3: run around a lot. Craven narrowed down this allegedly secret

1583
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 3: story for the DVD commentary. He said, the night before

1584
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:10,759
Speaker 3: we started shooting the scene, she told me a horrible

1585
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,679
Speaker 3: story about a newspaper article of a dog being burned

1586
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 3: by its owner set on fire. And he started crying

1587
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:18,639
Speaker 3: as she was telling this to me. So every time

1588
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 3: I needed to get her over that edge into complete tears,

1589
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 3: I would just say, Drew, I'm lighting the lighter God,

1590
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 3: and then she would burst into tears.

1591
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,639
Speaker 2: It was like the most Drew Berry Moore. Yeah, yes

1592
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 2: it is.

1593
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 3: For the scene. Roger L. Jackson, the voice of ghost Face,

1594
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 3: explained that he was outside one of the windows, crouching

1595
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 3: in the shadows and taking shelter into a canopy because

1596
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 3: it was raining outside. I was watching Drew through the

1597
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 3: window while I was on the cell phone, and I

1598
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 3: was completely miked up. It was a live conversation. My

1599
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 3: view is what the killer would have seen. It was

1600
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 3: genius and pretty horrifying.

1601
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1602
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 3: Craven is apparently in the killer's custum at one point,

1603
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 3: specifically when Barrymore throws the phone at him? Is that

1604
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 3: his territorial forest?

1605
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 2: Think about phone throws in this movie. Man. The other

1606
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 2: thing that's funny is he talked about how they like

1607
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:14,600
Speaker 2: the whole running bit in these movies is whoever is

1608
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 2: in the assumes the ghost face Mantle becomes like an

1609
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 2: immediate klutz and it's like tripping and falling all the time.

1610
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,480
Speaker 2: And they said that that was like so precisely choreographed

1611
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 2: because they had to walk this fine line of like,

1612
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 2: he's obviously a guy with a knife trying to kill

1613
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 2: teenage girls, but also it is funny when you throw

1614
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 2: a lamp or something at him and he does a pratfall.

1615
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 2: There's also an incredible deep cut pause for applause Halloween reference.

1616
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 2: In that opening scene, the character's father tells her mother

1617
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 2: to drive down to the Mackenzies, which is what Jamie

1618
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 2: Lee Curtis tells the kids that she's babysitting in the

1619
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 2: original film. She doesn't tell them drive, she says, go

1620
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 2: down to the Mackenzie's. But man, that is a deep cut.

1621
01:23:58,840 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 2: I got a deep cut too.

1622
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,799
Speaker 3: Ready. When Henry Winkler opens his closet in his office

1623
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 3: to try on the screen mask, before the ghost face mask,

1624
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 3: before he gets killed. You see his black leather fawnsie

1625
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 3: jacket from Happy Days Hang in the closet. Well, it's beautiful.

1626
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 2: Despite the good vibes on the set, this being a

1627
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 2: Weinstein production, they were predictably being giant soles. This was

1628
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: largely a Bob move, So we don't have as much

1629
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,879
Speaker 2: horrific sexual violence, but we just have the ordinary cruelty

1630
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,719
Speaker 2: of men with money towards artists. Bob hated the early

1631
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 2: rushes that he was seeing and started calling supervising producer

1632
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 2: Kathy Conrad, who, as I mentioned earlier, I love nitpicking

1633
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:43,920
Speaker 2: details like barrymore sweater grossly saying things like shouldn't it

1634
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 2: be racier? And her Wig. Much of the cast and

1635
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 2: crew also recall an incident where Bob called Kathy Conrad

1636
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 2: and asked for Wes Craven, literally interrupting a shot. As

1637
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 2: she told Vanity Fair, Bob told him he thought Wes

1638
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 2: could do better. Wes said to me, what kind of

1639
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 2: a studio head calls a filmmaker in the middle of

1640
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 2: shooting and kicks him in the balls and expects him

1641
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 2: to work the rest of the day and do good

1642
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 2: work and researching this. It was so much meaner than that,

1643
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 2: The film's editor Patrick Lucier told the Ringer. Wes was

1644
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 2: very despondent a few days in when he was just like, Oh,

1645
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 2: the studio called up. They're very upset. They don't think

1646
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 2: it's going to be good, he said. They told him

1647
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 2: he was a TV journeyman and a hack. Executive producer

1648
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 2: Mary and Matdelena told THHR Bob actually said the shooting

1649
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:30,679
Speaker 2: was workmanlike at best.

1650
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 3: Wow, wasn't it kind of a legend at this point?

1651
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 2: Like yes, he was, dude.

1652
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 3: Ah.

1653
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:41,839
Speaker 2: Twenty minutes after that phone call, Bob called again, complaining

1654
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,800
Speaker 2: about the killer's mask. Conrad called him on it, this

1655
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 2: time saying, you're the president of the studio. We sent

1656
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 2: you sketches of the mask. Then a few hours later

1657
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,559
Speaker 2: she got another phone call. Bob wants Wes to continue filming,

1658
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,200
Speaker 2: shooting each scene with four different masks until he can

1659
01:25:58,240 --> 01:25:59,679
Speaker 2: decide which one he wants.

1660
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 3: That's the most studio executive thing, most like higher level

1661
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:07,640
Speaker 3: boss like thing i've ever heard monsters. More work for

1662
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:09,639
Speaker 3: you until I make a decision that I could make

1663
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 3: right now but won't. Yeah.

1664
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 2: Dimension Studios head Carrie grinnat yes said his name, and

1665
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,680
Speaker 2: not a typo of carry. Grant did in fact come

1666
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:22,560
Speaker 2: out there and held a midnight meeting in Craven's hotel room.

1667
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 2: This is where Mike I just loved this woman. Thinking

1668
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 2: that they were about to fire Craven, Kathy Conrad unloaded

1669
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: on the head of the studio. Who the first do

1670
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 2: you think you're talking to? You hired a guy who

1671
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 2: created the genre, basically, and you're telling him how to

1672
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 2: make the movie. This guy's made thirty some odd movies.

1673
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 2: This is the most insulting thing I've ever seen in

1674
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 2: my entire life. Love it. Essentially, they reached a bargain

1675
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 2: where production would cut together just the opening scene and

1676
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 2: send it to New York for the Weinsteins. When this happened,

1677
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 2: Conrad monitored the situation in real time on a call

1678
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,800
Speaker 2: with an assistant to the Weinsteins. The footage is in

1679
01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 2: the office. The footage is on its way down to

1680
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 2: the screening room. The footage has reached the projection booth.

1681
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 2: The footage is being threaded. Bob is on his way down.

1682
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 2: Harvey is now with Bob. They're both seated. The lights

1683
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 2: have gone out. They're starting, I'll call you back anyway.

1684
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 2: Bob called her ten minutes later. It was over the moon.

1685
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,479
Speaker 2: I think he said. Harvey was levitating for the theater,

1686
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 2: which may have been to drugs.

1687
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,759
Speaker 3: May have been the Flay show he received during the screening.

1688
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 3: But I guess to his credit that too far for you?

1689
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 3: How was that too far for you?

1690
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's gross when other people would

1691
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 2: be Bob is just a person, but it's gross with

1692
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 2: the knowledge that that probably happened at some point or

1693
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 2: Bob knew about it and was like, yeah, okay. So

1694
01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 2: Bob called Conrad back ten minutes later, just over the moon.

1695
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 2: He apologized, and he said production told them you can

1696
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 2: do whatever you want. There's a quote that was like

1697
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:56,720
Speaker 2: the only person that could do what they wanted at

1698
01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:00,040
Speaker 2: Merrimx was Quentin Tarantino because of pulp fiction. But it

1699
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 2: is really gross how everyone at that studio was just like,

1700
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,679
Speaker 2: these men are unabashed monsters, Like who's that Broadway producer

1701
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 2: who like Scott Scot a.

1702
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 3: Friend who were for Scott Rudin And then yeah, it

1703
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:11,799
Speaker 3: was known at the time.

1704
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 2: These are terrible, terrible human beings like and then and

1705
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 2: then and then it was just an open secret that

1706
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 2: one of them was a horrifying sexual predator. What a

1707
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:23,639
Speaker 2: nightmare industry movie magic.

1708
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 3: It is weird, and I don't know how much of

1709
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 3: this I'll keep, but like, yeah, I mean I had

1710
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 3: a really good friend who who worked for him and

1711
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, when that ex was a came It

1712
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 3: wasn't like all of a sudden like wait, you two

1713
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 3: you too know this on It was like yeah, everybody knew.

1714
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 3: It was just it was even thirty Rocks.

1715
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was another thirty Rock joke where Jenna Moroney

1716
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 2: says something like she says something you remain the person

1717
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 2: who you were in certain situations. In many ways, I'm

1718
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,680
Speaker 2: still trapped under passed out Harvey Weinstein at a Meer

1719
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 2: Max Christmas party. Oh god, that was a line in

1720
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:56,639
Speaker 2: network television. Everyone was just like, who, well, it's funny,

1721
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 2: creepy Harvey, It's funny.

1722
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:01,560
Speaker 3: It is the whole like notion of open secrets, you know.

1723
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember hearing stuff about the Louis c

1724
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 3: k thing for years, and you know, and now there's

1725
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 3: this one comedian who's become a very big deal with

1726
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 3: a a show that's like basically like a like a

1727
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 3: one man show kind of deal that's supposed to be

1728
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 3: you know, first person. And I'm hearing from all kinds

1729
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 3: of multiple sources that he made it all up. It's

1730
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 3: presented as like a first person like an authentic thing,

1731
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 3: and it's a very deeply emotional forum. And it's of

1732
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 3: course widely believe that it's been completely made up. And

1733
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 3: he's won like all these awards for it and stuff,

1734
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 3: and now he's getting cast in like extremely high profile. Like, Yeah,

1735
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 3: it's weird. It's weird when there's just like too much

1736
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 3: money riding on stuff for people to speak out. It's

1737
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:57,480
Speaker 3: bizarre sad anyway, speaking of masks, ooh right.

1738
01:29:57,720 --> 01:29:58,719
Speaker 2: And the ones we wear.

1739
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the ghost face mask truly horrifying, like really

1740
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 3: deeply unsettling.

1741
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. Like I said, I remember seeing

1742
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:10,760
Speaker 2: it just on the streets of New Cumberland, Pennsylvania and

1743
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 2: just being like, ah.

1744
01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 3: I think that's what's so Like if you see it

1745
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:16,040
Speaker 3: in New York, it's kind of not that scary, but

1746
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 3: seeing it in like the suburbs, there is a creepiness

1747
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 3: to it. I can't explain why.

1748
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 2: I mean, it gets at the clown thing yess like

1749
01:30:23,479 --> 01:30:26,719
Speaker 2: deranged in the sort of clown way. And obviously everyone's

1750
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 2: seen the Edward Moons painting at some point in their life.

1751
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:31,160
Speaker 2: But you know, it just kind of goes back to

1752
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 2: the Michael Myers thing, which is like, what is the

1753
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 2: scariest thing in the world A white man, you know,

1754
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 2: just a white face that signals danger for a whole

1755
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:43,759
Speaker 2: gender and several races.

1756
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 3: You know, I read somewhere on some listical thing and

1757
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 3: I couldn't like totally source it, but they wanted his

1758
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 3: like cape drapy thing to be white, but it looked

1759
01:30:54,080 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 3: a little too clanny, Yeah, so they changed that. The

1760
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 3: mask is not explicitly described in the script, and much

1761
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:07,920
Speaker 3: like the iconically terrible William Shatner mask that they gave

1762
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 3: Michael Myers, this was just a standard Halloween mask that,

1763
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, was inspired by Edward Munch's painting The

1764
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 3: Scream and a whole lineage of cartoonishly distorted faces that

1765
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 3: took its cues from it cover of King Crimsons in

1766
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 3: the Court of the Crimson King and Pink Floyd's The

1767
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 3: Wall for Starters. The ghost Face mask was designed in

1768
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one as part of the Fun World company's

1769
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 3: Fantastic Faces product line and was found by Kevin Williamson

1770
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 3: and executive producer Mary and Madelena while location scouting.

1771
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,800
Speaker 2: Just in a room, just in a kid's room. They said,

1772
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 2: we took.

1773
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 3: That to production and said, riff on this, make something

1774
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:50,520
Speaker 3: like this, And they must have done twenty different designs.

1775
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 3: But while fun World legally owned the design, it was

1776
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 3: a team effort from a group of talented artists. Lauren

1777
01:31:57,000 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 3: Griffins was a special effects makeup artist working in Los

1778
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:03,600
Speaker 3: Angeles Tony Gardner's Altyrian Studios and recall the fangoria, the

1779
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 3: Halloween tradition amongst the special effects community, which was to

1780
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 3: throw a party to show off their stuff. I love that.

1781
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 3: That's really cute, Griffith said. My costume idea was an

1782
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 3: advanced take on the classic Halloween costume of a bed

1783
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 3: sheet with eyeholes for a ghost, which integrated a formed

1784
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:21,320
Speaker 3: buckram ghost face mask with a long jaw. Buckram is

1785
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 3: a kind of stiff fabric. Tony Gardner told the magazine

1786
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:27,559
Speaker 3: that during the slow period for movie work, the company

1787
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 3: decided to make a collection of Halloween masks and self

1788
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:34,400
Speaker 3: market them, buying an ad in the back of Fangoria magazine.

1789
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 2: It is really amazing, like this article, like you can

1790
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 2: go in line because Fangoria has these tremendous arcads that

1791
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 2: were literally just all in fiocabinets in like New York,

1792
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 2: in one office, so they have so much of it,

1793
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:48,880
Speaker 2: all of it digitized. That's but you can go back

1794
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 2: and see like these one ads and it is just

1795
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:55,320
Speaker 2: a ghost face mask. It's like literally the goddamn ghost

1796
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 2: face mask. And this is why this next wort pisses

1797
01:32:58,360 --> 01:32:58,720
Speaker 2: me off.

1798
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 3: Oh here you you do this them.

1799
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:06,400
Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety one, Gitterns and this fellow artist

1800
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 2: at this company, Altierian Jim Usterman, drove cross country to

1801
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 2: the annual Halloween Trade Show in Chicago, which is the

1802
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 2: largest event of its kind in the US, to promote

1803
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 2: their line of masks. Within months of that show, this

1804
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:24,799
Speaker 2: company called fun World had a brand new in house designer.

1805
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:29,280
Speaker 2: Her name is Brigitte Slairton Leeden. Slairton Leiden, her name

1806
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:33,040
Speaker 2: is Brigitte Slairton Leiden, and they just told her to

1807
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 2: copy the Altyrian designs. She explicitly told Fangoria I was

1808
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 2: given a picture of something similar to what the finished

1809
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:45,560
Speaker 2: masks would eventually look like, and was asked if I

1810
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 2: thought these could be made as masks and do some

1811
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 2: drawings with a similar look and feel. So I did

1812
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 2: a bunch of sketches of different faces with that same

1813
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 2: white melty face with simplistic black facial feature shapes, and

1814
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:01,960
Speaker 2: in a surprise to no one familiar with Corporate America,

1815
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 2: fun World's line of Fantastic faces, which included six masks,

1816
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 2: are all riffs on that original kind of design that

1817
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 2: was done by Aultrian. A year or two later, Gieterns

1818
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 2: told Fangoria, I was in a drug store and I

1819
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:21,120
Speaker 2: saw fun World's mass produced knockoff versions of my whaler mask.

1820
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 2: Clearly it appeared to be a direct rendering of my

1821
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 2: original creation. I was a bit amused, but didn't pursue

1822
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:29,640
Speaker 2: looking into it any further, as I had left that

1823
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:31,680
Speaker 2: part of my life behind and was on too a

1824
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 2: new one.

1825
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 3: Years after that, one of the masks was found and

1826
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:37,400
Speaker 3: picked for the movie, though Dementia Studios wanted to own

1827
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:40,200
Speaker 3: the rights for their own design for merchandising purposes, which

1828
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 3: was smart and Special Facts House kN BFx was churning

1829
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 3: out designs left and right that weren't quite what they

1830
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:49,920
Speaker 3: wanted Wes Craven stuck to his guns, and eventually they

1831
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:51,840
Speaker 3: had to reach out the Fun World to license the

1832
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 3: rights for the mask. But the drama over credit for

1833
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:57,400
Speaker 3: the masks design, though literally, played out in the pages

1834
01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 3: of Fangoria magazine. Fangoria issue number one eighty nine from

1835
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 3: January two thousand interviewed the original fund World designer, writing

1836
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 3: the mask was actually designed by fun World employee Brigitte

1837
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 3: Swedish chef Sounds, prior to the movie's conception. Brigitte stated

1838
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:18,839
Speaker 3: the idea was something I worked on with Alan Geller,

1839
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:21,760
Speaker 3: the vice president of the company. Of the entire assortment,

1840
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 3: that face was the strongest one. A reader wrote in

1841
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 3: to bring up the original designers, and from then on,

1842
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:29,640
Speaker 3: fun World literally wrote sleeve and Linder out of the

1843
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 3: story of the mask design. She no longer is mentioned

1844
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:35,040
Speaker 3: on the site, and fun World now credits VP Alan

1845
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 3: Geller as the creator of the design.

1846
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:41,960
Speaker 2: So to recap, yeah, she claimed credit in Fangoria, and

1847
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 2: a reader in Fangoria wrote in to correct the record

1848
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 2: and fun World Reddit someone at that company read it

1849
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 2: and when she's a loose cannon, we are taking her

1850
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 2: out of this narrative and they don't, so now it's

1851
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 2: just credit to the VP.

1852
01:35:58,960 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 3: That's sad.

1853
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:02,519
Speaker 2: And then and all these original artists are cut out.

1854
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 2: This is the most popular Halloween costume in the US

1855
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:10,760
Speaker 2: period for like decades, I'm sure, and all of these

1856
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 2: artists have been cut out of these massive profits. The

1857
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 2: owner of Vultarian Studios, Tony Gardner, said that when he

1858
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 2: first saw the movie, he was genuinely flattered that they

1859
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,519
Speaker 2: had used our mass design. I really enjoyed the movie

1860
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 2: and thought it was a great compliment that the Whaler

1861
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 2: was up there on the big screen and such a

1862
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 2: great film. I was a bit naive at the time

1863
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 2: and assumed that since it had been years since we

1864
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 2: created the mask, there would be no way to fight

1865
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:33,439
Speaker 2: for it. I also assumed that the movie was a

1866
01:36:33,439 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 2: one time deal and the ship had already sailed. But

1867
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:39,640
Speaker 2: here's the thing. Fun World didn't register that or the

1868
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 2: phrase ghostface as a trademark until nineteen ninety six, so

1869
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 2: they had stolen these designs, failed to copyright them, and

1870
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:50,200
Speaker 2: then filed the paperwork just as the movie was being made.

1871
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 2: Before these original artists had any notion that this was

1872
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 2: going to become one of the biggest horror movies of

1873
01:36:55,720 --> 01:37:00,120
Speaker 2: all time, and hilariously enough, the top banner of on

1874
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:04,479
Speaker 2: World's website currently reads over fifty years of seasonal product fun,

1875
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:06,880
Speaker 2: honesty and integrity.

1876
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 3: Wow eh, this has been the Heigel's moral stand of

1877
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:14,160
Speaker 3: this episode.

1878
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:18,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, gob on my soapbox. I take my seasonal ephemera

1879
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 2: very seriously, all right?

1880
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:23,280
Speaker 3: Yes, you do you love spooky season? Also?

1881
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:26,839
Speaker 2: Yes, and and the sanctity of it as a pagan

1882
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:27,800
Speaker 2: Celtic right.

1883
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:29,479
Speaker 3: I don't think you get this up in arms about

1884
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 3: like nutcrackers or like oflf on the shelf.

1885
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, yeah, but I will paint Celtic roots in

1886
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:39,000
Speaker 2: blood in the Fun World offices.

1887
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 3: I continue going ham on Easter just because of the

1888
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:47,680
Speaker 3: pagan Yeah. Yeah, still Halloween though, Yeah, oh of course. Yeah.

1889
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:50,320
Speaker 3: Your birthdays, everybody, Higel's birthdays coming up?

1890
01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 6: Shut up?

1891
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 2: That means Jordan's birthdays coming up? No, my birthday is

1892
01:37:56,120 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 2: until Christmas. Yeah, well your birthday is next week or two.

1893
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 3: Shut up.

1894
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to deflect. Also read.

1895
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:09,360
Speaker 3: The film's third act takes place entirely in an essentially

1896
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 3: abandoned house in Tomalas in Morin County. Population as of

1897
01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty Census one hundred and eighty seven. That's

1898
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:21,760
Speaker 3: up there with the Buffalo Bill House right. The house

1899
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:23,719
Speaker 3: they found had been built by a couple in nineteen

1900
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 3: ninety on thirty acres of land, and when they died

1901
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 3: within a month of each other, their children wanted nothing

1902
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:32,639
Speaker 3: to do with it. That house was like five years

1903
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 3: old when they filmed that. That's terrifying. Production designer they died,

1904
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:37,240
Speaker 3: They died real quick.

1905
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they built their dream house and then Super died

1906
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:43,640
Speaker 2: In America.

1907
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 3: Production designer Bruce Miller explained, it just doesn't make sense

1908
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 3: that in a normal American home, murders could be happening

1909
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 3: in the upstairs bedrooms and people watching television downstairs would

1910
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:55,439
Speaker 3: know about it. So the house had to be big

1911
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:57,559
Speaker 3: enough and the rooms had to be separated by enough

1912
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,360
Speaker 3: distance to convince the audience that these things could really

1913
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 3: be happening without the other people knowing about it. This

1914
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:05,599
Speaker 3: particular house was perfect for that because it was very

1915
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,880
Speaker 3: convoluted and kind of Victorian on the inside. It's like

1916
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:10,839
Speaker 3: the Manson murders. There was one guy in the property

1917
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:12,800
Speaker 3: who was in the little guest cottage just just away

1918
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:15,000
Speaker 3: from the main house, and he lived and everyone's like,

1919
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:16,680
Speaker 3: you didn't you didn't hear that. You didn't hear the

1920
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:20,840
Speaker 3: screaming on the lawn and and the guns, and you

1921
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:24,360
Speaker 3: hear any of that? And he said no, And then

1922
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 3: they checked like the stereo. He was like, listen, I

1923
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 3: think he was listening to the doors. Actually they checked

1924
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:31,840
Speaker 3: his like stereo levels. And yeah, there's all sorts of

1925
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 3: stories about whether or not he actually heard nothing or

1926
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:36,600
Speaker 3: if he just hid under his bed.

1927
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:39,639
Speaker 2: For those of you who are keeping track at home,

1928
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:42,200
Speaker 2: that is our Manson family tie in. Jordan has yet

1929
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:45,160
Speaker 2: to work in the Beatles or the Beach Boys. Yeah

1930
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:48,840
Speaker 2: that's true. Huh, I'll figure out something. I haven't done

1931
01:39:48,840 --> 01:39:51,719
Speaker 2: a Manson tian in a while. It's true, it's true.

1932
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 3: So this house production got it cheap and it was

1933
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:57,599
Speaker 3: Craven said that the art department went in there and

1934
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 3: did an enormous number on the house. We put all

1935
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:03,679
Speaker 3: sorts of beams and stained glass windows, darkened all the colors,

1936
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:06,120
Speaker 3: brought out all the set dressings. It was done in

1937
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 3: a sort of farmhouse style and we changed it into

1938
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,599
Speaker 3: a gothic farmhouse. Production also made a bunch of fake

1939
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:15,000
Speaker 3: barn fronts to hide the trailers. I like that these

1940
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:18,679
Speaker 3: were obviously all taken out after production the house was sold.

1941
01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 3: The house was sold in twenty fourteen for whoa two

1942
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:24,280
Speaker 3: point eight million dollars, although I guess it's outside of

1943
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:27,639
Speaker 3: San Francisco and Zillo now estimates its value at three

1944
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:31,639
Speaker 3: point five million, and you believe it currently is a

1945
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 3: wedding venue and event rental property called spring Hill Estate

1946
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 3: and does offer Scream tours for two hundred bucks a pop.

1947
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:42,519
Speaker 2: So they don't call it the Scream House like they

1948
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:44,880
Speaker 2: they It's called spring Hill State and I think they

1949
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:47,800
Speaker 2: do just like weddings there, but there is also like

1950
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 2: a subcontracted company that does Scream tours there. And I

1951
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:53,960
Speaker 2: think when they launched the movie, Airbnb did some kind

1952
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 2: of a like when they rebooted the movie, Airbnb did

1953
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:58,120
Speaker 2: some kind of a tie in. I was like, come

1954
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 2: stay Stew's house from Scream. I don't have dollars two

1955
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:03,320
Speaker 2: hundred dollars to drive into the middle of nowhere and

1956
01:41:03,439 --> 01:41:06,120
Speaker 2: like trapes around a house. I'm sorry that surprises me.

1957
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:11,080
Speaker 2: I spend that money on boutique guitar pedals. Jordan Streyman,

1958
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:17,559
Speaker 2: give me some free sh ah. Anyway, that final forty

1959
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:19,719
Speaker 2: two minute sequence. Like fully a third of the film

1960
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 2: takes place in that house. It was hell to shoot.

1961
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 2: They did it over the course of three weeks, and

1962
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 2: to start with, the place was because of the remote location.

1963
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:32,439
Speaker 2: It made lighting it with a traditional overhead rig called

1964
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 2: a condor impossible. A condor is one of those things

1965
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:37,640
Speaker 2: that it's one of those things that it has like

1966
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:40,360
Speaker 2: a base and that it has the extending legs out

1967
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 2: to stabilize it, and then you mount different isolated arrangements

1968
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 2: of lights on it. And the ground was simply too

1969
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 2: steep and weird to do that. So they essentially had

1970
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 2: to mount a lot of the lighting that was used

1971
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:54,719
Speaker 2: for the exteriors and to get the kind of atmosphere

1972
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 2: stuff for interiors on the side of the garage. And

1973
01:41:57,320 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 2: this was costly, took time, It was less than perfect

1974
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:03,800
Speaker 2: because it showed up in some shots, and so this

1975
01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:08,640
Speaker 2: is sad. Cinematographer Mark Irwin had worked with Craven on

1976
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 2: four films before, and he had vociferously opposed the location

1977
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 2: from the start, but this is where it gets weird.

1978
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:19,000
Speaker 2: He also pushed to shoot Scream with an anamorphic lens.

1979
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:24,080
Speaker 2: Anamorphic lenses as I mentioned earlier our favorite of John

1980
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:28,920
Speaker 2: John carpetel anamorphic lenses are a favorite of John Carpenter.

1981
01:42:29,120 --> 01:42:33,760
Speaker 2: It basically distorts the image into a wider frame, and

1982
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:36,400
Speaker 2: Carpenter and a lot of the Western guys that were

1983
01:42:36,439 --> 01:42:41,799
Speaker 2: inspired by love it because it gives you this beautiful, large, scenic,

1984
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:45,439
Speaker 2: widescreen image to work with. But because it is actually

1985
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 2: distorting the image that's printed on the film, you get

1986
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 2: things like lens flares, and you get a little distortion

1987
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 2: at the ends of the sides of the screens, and

1988
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 2: some of that in the hands of a really talented

1989
01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:59,639
Speaker 2: cinematographer like Dean Kundy on those Carpenter films, looks really

1990
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:02,760
Speaker 2: really beautiful, like you can make lens flair and do

1991
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 2: weird things with the distortion inherent in the format. But

1992
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:09,640
Speaker 2: this guy, Mark Orwin and Wes Craven hadn't shot an

1993
01:43:09,640 --> 01:43:12,360
Speaker 2: anamorphic before. It was just something that was like, I'm

1994
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:16,960
Speaker 2: gonna shoot this one an anamorphic. So this created a

1995
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 2: problem with what they call focus pulling. And feel free

1996
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:23,680
Speaker 2: to skip ahead fifteen or thirty seconds if you are

1997
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,920
Speaker 2: not interested in the most granular bit of filmmaking I

1998
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:29,840
Speaker 2: have ever talked about. On this show, focus pulling is

1999
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:34,200
Speaker 2: a specific part of camera operation, which doesn't mean keeping

2000
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 2: the entire shot in focus. It means keeping a specific

2001
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:42,160
Speaker 2: focal point on an actor or in a location consistent

2002
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:46,280
Speaker 2: as those things move within the frame. So, for example,

2003
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,679
Speaker 2: a puller might hone in on an actor's eye during

2004
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,320
Speaker 2: a shot, and bad focus pulling is when they would

2005
01:43:54,320 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 2: not track that as the actor moves, and then you

2006
01:43:57,120 --> 01:43:59,720
Speaker 2: end up with a focus point that goes from their

2007
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:03,040
Speaker 2: eye to their ear or to a point in the background.

2008
01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 2: That is focus pulling. And so with about three weeks

2009
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 2: to go, editor Patrick Lucier voiced concerns with the particular

2010
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 2: focus puller on Mark Irwin's team that he said had

2011
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:16,760
Speaker 2: been quote.

2012
01:44:16,479 --> 01:44:18,200
Speaker 3: Accumulating for three films.

2013
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:20,519
Speaker 2: So I remember these guys had worked Craven's team had

2014
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 2: worked together for a while, and they took the cinematographer

2015
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:25,840
Speaker 2: into one of the rooms and was like, look, man,

2016
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:30,719
Speaker 2: all this stuff is unusable because with bad focus pulling,

2017
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:35,080
Speaker 2: that eliminates the consistency of footage that you need to

2018
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:39,240
Speaker 2: edit a film together. Right, You can't edit shots together

2019
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,559
Speaker 2: that have different focal points ostensibly within the same scene.

2020
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:46,479
Speaker 2: This all track My explaining this well, yeah, okay, cool.

2021
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 2: And so one of the most famous examples of this

2022
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 2: that I think I haven't delved into whether or not

2023
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:55,480
Speaker 2: it was the specific focus pooler or just the cinematographer

2024
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:58,640
Speaker 2: who did this, But there's a really famous one in

2025
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:02,680
Speaker 2: Requiem for a Dream is during the unbroken shot of

2026
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:08,879
Speaker 2: Ellen Burston's like horrifyingly sad monologue, and there's a second

2027
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 2: where the focus pool changes, and it was because the

2028
01:45:12,479 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 2: guy working it had started crying and his tears fogged

2029
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:20,520
Speaker 2: up the lens so that he couldn't see what was

2030
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 2: the lost focus for a second. Anyway, So that's your

2031
01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:28,000
Speaker 2: that's Hegel's nitty gritty digression.

2032
01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 3: I'm wearing nasal strips right now because, as you can hear,

2033
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:33,760
Speaker 3: I have a cold. But if I wasn't, you would

2034
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:37,879
Speaker 3: have heard me snoring. Okay, cool, I'm saw. I'm kidding.

2035
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 3: You know, I love all this technical stuff that I

2036
01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:43,400
Speaker 3: don't have a magic. I love how much you love

2037
01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 3: movie magic. No, I did, and that was very well

2038
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 3: told and very fast. I'm kidding.

2039
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:51,280
Speaker 2: You should keep the story bitten, though it's funny.

2040
01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:55,000
Speaker 3: Keep it all in I always do. I never edit

2041
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:58,639
Speaker 3: you for time. Well, I edit you for a fence

2042
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 3: and humor. Anyway, After screening some of the final footage,

2043
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:09,959
Speaker 3: Irwin said Craven after conferring with editor Patrick Lucier, Lucier

2044
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:14,320
Speaker 3: informed Erwin that all the filmed footage was unusable and

2045
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:18,680
Speaker 3: that thirty five days of scenes needed to be reshot.

2046
01:46:18,280 --> 01:46:21,639
Speaker 3: He must have wanted to walk into the ocean. That

2047
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:25,320
Speaker 3: is so bad and it all began with a scream,

2048
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 3: A wonderful making of book. Irwin alleged that he was

2049
01:46:28,520 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 3: being scapegoated for the film running behind scheduled due to

2050
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:33,719
Speaker 3: an agreement Craven had at the studio that he would

2051
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 3: forfeit his salary after a certain amount of delay. Producer

2052
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:40,920
Speaker 3: Kathy Conrad denies that she will defend Red Craven to

2053
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:43,479
Speaker 3: the death, but either way. Erwin was replaced on the

2054
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 3: spot after the screening by Peter Deming for the final

2055
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:51,839
Speaker 3: three weeks of shooting thirty five days over Oh my god. Anyway,

2056
01:46:52,120 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 3: This is all contributed to what is now referred to

2057
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:58,519
Speaker 3: as quote the longest night in horror history, scene one

2058
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:02,240
Speaker 3: hundred and eighteen, which had over twenty parts. Hi, I

2059
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:04,680
Speaker 3: goel tell us about seeing one eighteen. This seems like

2060
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 3: something that is more you well.

2061
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:09,160
Speaker 2: Cast and crew printed up T shirts that read I

2062
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:12,280
Speaker 2: survived seeing one eighteen after they wrapped. So there's about

2063
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:16,920
Speaker 2: That's about the scope of it. To keep blood consistent

2064
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 2: from shot to shot, they were not allowed to wash

2065
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:23,120
Speaker 2: their costumes, so Nev Campbell said, I would take it

2066
01:47:23,160 --> 01:47:24,880
Speaker 2: off in the morning and then in the evening when

2067
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 2: I went back to work, because the continuity of the

2068
01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:29,680
Speaker 2: blood had to be the same. They would just wet it.

2069
01:47:30,160 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 2: They would just dampen the whole thing. I wanted to

2070
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 2: burn that costume at the end of the movie. The

2071
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:38,880
Speaker 2: call sheets for these for all these days of shooting

2072
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:42,080
Speaker 2: had a much more prosaic name for the scene, People Live,

2073
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:49,400
Speaker 2: People Die. The final confrontation between Campbell, Lillard, and Ulrich

2074
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:53,840
Speaker 2: took five days on its own. One particular moment made

2075
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 2: production literally question Wes Craven's sanity. Mary and Matdeleena said,

2076
01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:01,479
Speaker 2: we thought Wes went nuts because we didn't know the

2077
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 2: sofa had feathers in it, and we thought Wes was

2078
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:06,960
Speaker 2: crazy to carry on with everyone covered in blood, which

2079
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:09,919
Speaker 2: is really corn syrup as the feathers fall over them.

2080
01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 2: Skeet Olrick told Vulture, We've got Nev pinned in the

2081
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:14,639
Speaker 2: corner of the kitchen. I'm trying to hit that little

2082
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:18,000
Speaker 2: heartfelt moment of my character having lost his mom and

2083
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:20,200
Speaker 2: Sydney disappears and we can't find her, and I run

2084
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:21,680
Speaker 2: into the living room with my knife and cut the

2085
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:24,600
Speaker 2: couch open. I had so many damn feathers stuck to

2086
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:27,080
Speaker 2: all that blood around the neck. We do the first

2087
01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 2: take and all I can hear is Wes laughing. I

2088
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:31,240
Speaker 2: look down and it looks like I have a duck

2089
01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:34,479
Speaker 2: on my hand. Also, that finale had a very real

2090
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 2: scare for skeet Ulric.

2091
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:38,719
Speaker 3: His dad came out.

2092
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:47,000
Speaker 2: Here is this on the coll sheetr McDonald.

2093
01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:54,439
Speaker 3: Where he was talking with like Bob Einsteiner or if

2094
01:48:54,439 --> 01:48:57,120
Speaker 3: he's talking with somebody who's like, yeah, I used to

2095
01:48:57,160 --> 01:49:00,800
Speaker 3: walk into uh, Dean Martin Street.

2096
01:49:01,479 --> 01:49:04,800
Speaker 7: Dean Martin at Hamburger hamlet you know everything. That's what

2097
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:05,960
Speaker 7: I meant. That's where I saw him.

2098
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:08,559
Speaker 6: Was it was it Hamberd, Yeah, that's where I also,

2099
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:09,680
Speaker 6: we must have talked about it.

2100
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:10,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, well, you know it was me at

2101
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:11,680
Speaker 3: Hamberg and I.

2102
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:13,559
Speaker 6: Walked in there and he had lost his son and

2103
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 6: he was my He was one of the guys that

2104
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:18,880
Speaker 6: just did it like that was the guy. I looked

2105
01:49:18,880 --> 01:49:21,160
Speaker 6: at it and he was sitting there and he was

2106
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:24,840
Speaker 6: having a martini, and I just walked over and I

2107
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:28,280
Speaker 6: was twenty two, twenty three, and I just kind of

2108
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:30,320
Speaker 6: stood there. I didn't want to bother him because I

2109
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 6: or maybe I was twenty four and he was just

2110
01:49:34,040 --> 01:49:36,400
Speaker 6: sitting there and he looked up and it was it

2111
01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:39,000
Speaker 6: was nice, and I just went, I found your.

2112
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:54,719
Speaker 7: Son, that' said Bob Sage's better a guest.

2113
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 2: Something should do an edit where they find an old

2114
01:49:56,840 --> 01:50:00,360
Speaker 2: picture of Skilk's biological dad and just like put him

2115
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:04,200
Speaker 2: in as a force ghost in the background like the

2116
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:10,320
Speaker 2: blue Anakin Skywalker. I'm proud of you some Oh, anyway,

2117
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:15,000
Speaker 2: making more fun of Sketric's childhood drama, the guy had

2118
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:17,840
Speaker 2: open heart surgery when he was a kid. Oh, and

2119
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:21,000
Speaker 2: he was left with a scarred area where the skin

2120
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:23,960
Speaker 2: was thinner, and there was a bunch like stainless steel

2121
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 2: wire because they had to reconstruct like part of his heart.

2122
01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:31,200
Speaker 2: So there's stainless steel wire like under this, under this

2123
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 2: scarred area, this thinner skin that was very sensitive to

2124
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:38,200
Speaker 2: the touch. And turns out havev Campbell hit him in

2125
01:50:38,200 --> 01:50:41,160
Speaker 2: that exact spot with an umbrella when she jumps out

2126
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:44,760
Speaker 2: of the closet at him, and so his reaction to

2127
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:46,439
Speaker 2: that pain is very real.

2128
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 3: Cambell recalled the difficulty of maintaining an intense level of

2129
01:50:50,040 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 3: terror for that long. How long were they shooting this

2130
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:56,639
Speaker 3: five days? God? But that was helped along by Wes Craven,

2131
01:50:57,320 --> 01:50:59,320
Speaker 3: and the scene was skeeton. Matt went up against the

2132
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:01,920
Speaker 3: counter and there to kill me. I'm about to get

2133
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:04,519
Speaker 3: my strength. Wes came up and he just whispered in

2134
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:08,400
Speaker 3: my ear. He said, imagine you've got a thousand bullets

2135
01:51:08,479 --> 01:51:12,760
Speaker 3: ricocheting through your body, and he walked away. Your fear

2136
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:15,400
Speaker 3: might have been helped by how intense Alrick and Lillard were.

2137
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:22,680
Speaker 3: Lillard told Vulture, we were amped, were fully torn. Bro,

2138
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:25,840
Speaker 3: he really is that way. Wow. There was no doubt

2139
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:27,599
Speaker 3: that we were on a fever pitch for the five

2140
01:51:27,680 --> 01:51:30,480
Speaker 3: days we shot the last killing sequence, we were screaming,

2141
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 3: don't see what he did there. We were in between,

2142
01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:36,639
Speaker 3: we were in between takes, trying to maintain that energy.

2143
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 3: Aulrick added, Courtney came to the set getting ready to

2144
01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:41,639
Speaker 3: shoot it, and Matt and I are like caged animals

2145
01:51:41,640 --> 01:51:44,640
Speaker 3: in that zone. Just pacing the set. Courtney comes in

2146
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:47,200
Speaker 3: and we make eye contact, and Wes was like, Okay,

2147
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:50,479
Speaker 3: all right, all right, she's freaked out and we're not

2148
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:53,599
Speaker 3: even filming yet. And I distinctly remember Wes being like,

2149
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:55,880
Speaker 3: all right, guys, just calm down for a second.

2150
01:51:57,479 --> 01:52:01,720
Speaker 2: Just like Faroly covered in blood. I can see how

2151
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:03,920
Speaker 2: Crinny Cox looks at and makes eye contact with one

2152
01:52:03,960 --> 01:52:06,080
Speaker 2: of them was like, what the fuck did I sign

2153
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:06,679
Speaker 2: up for again?

2154
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:10,080
Speaker 3: These fifty gallons of fake blood on this movie? It

2155
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:11,439
Speaker 3: almost sounds low and I.

2156
01:52:11,400 --> 01:52:13,880
Speaker 2: Say that, yeah.

2157
01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:14,639
Speaker 3: Uh.

2158
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:19,080
Speaker 2: Random note about composer Marco Beltrami from his CHR part.

2159
01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 2: He said Wes was looking for a composer for the movie,

2160
01:52:21,880 --> 01:52:23,840
Speaker 2: and I send over a demo tape. I had not

2161
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:26,000
Speaker 2: seen any horror movies up to that point. I had

2162
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:28,479
Speaker 2: never been affair and of the genre. When I went

2163
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 2: into meet with Wes, I remember him saying, it's funny

2164
01:52:31,240 --> 01:52:33,960
Speaker 2: all the demo tapes we get, everyone sounds like John Williams.

2165
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,639
Speaker 2: You're the first one that sounds like your original Bell

2166
01:52:36,680 --> 01:52:38,800
Speaker 2: Trommy took the opening scene home and scored it over

2167
01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:41,479
Speaker 2: the weekend to secure the gig. Speaking of music, you

2168
01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:43,800
Speaker 2: gotta talk about my beloved Nick Cave, whose song Red

2169
01:52:43,880 --> 01:52:46,000
Speaker 2: Right Hand off his nineteen ninety four album with the

2170
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:48,519
Speaker 2: Bad Seeds Let Love In, was used in the film

2171
01:52:48,680 --> 01:52:51,120
Speaker 2: alongside a host of other tunes, but it edged them

2172
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:55,200
Speaker 2: all out and became the franchise's de facto theme song. Unsurprisingly,

2173
01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:58,240
Speaker 2: this story starts out with a long time Wes Craven collaborator,

2174
01:52:58,479 --> 01:53:02,719
Speaker 2: Grammy and Peabody Award winning music supervisor Ed Gerard. Gerard

2175
01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:05,280
Speaker 2: told Bloody Disgusting dot Com that he'd actually pitched a

2176
01:53:05,320 --> 01:53:08,760
Speaker 2: different Nickcave song, lover Man also Let Off Let Love

2177
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 2: In for Vampire in Brooklyn, albeit unsuccessfully. However, Scream's eventual editor,

2178
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:16,720
Speaker 2: Patrick Lucier liked the album so much that he asked

2179
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:19,599
Speaker 2: Gerard if he could keep it. Gerard wasn't even hired

2180
01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:21,800
Speaker 2: on Scream until about halfway through, and he came in

2181
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:24,040
Speaker 2: and pitched Red Right Hand, which is the sort of

2182
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:27,200
Speaker 2: narrative ramble of a song about this mysterious badass with

2183
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:30,080
Speaker 2: the titular limb, which is a reference to John Milton's

2184
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:33,479
Speaker 2: Paradise Lost, and Gerard actually gives Lucier all the credit

2185
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:37,519
Speaker 2: for the song's effective use in the film. Lucier explains

2186
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:40,439
Speaker 2: how the song was present basically from his very first edits.

2187
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 2: He said the two sequences where it appears the instrumental

2188
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:46,720
Speaker 2: early on and the lyric into the chorus for the

2189
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:49,680
Speaker 2: town shutting down, were cut in during the initial edit

2190
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 2: on both scenes. Never once was any other music present

2191
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 2: for either scene, and neither of those scenes were shown

2192
01:53:55,040 --> 01:53:58,479
Speaker 2: to Wes without that song present. It was serendipitous timing

2193
01:53:58,520 --> 01:54:01,559
Speaker 2: because Cave had released Murder Ballads, which contains his chart

2194
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 2: topping Kylie Minogue duet where the Wild Roses Grow, in

2195
01:54:05,120 --> 01:54:07,400
Speaker 2: February of nineteen ninety six, so his team was looking

2196
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:11,200
Speaker 2: for any opportunity to prolong the exposure. When it came

2197
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:13,800
Speaker 2: time to use the song again and Scream two, music

2198
01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:16,640
Speaker 2: supervisor Ed Gerard met with Cave. He looks at me

2199
01:54:16,680 --> 01:54:18,559
Speaker 2: and goes, were you the one that put that song

2200
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:21,320
Speaker 2: in there? And I said yeah. He said, you know,

2201
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:23,640
Speaker 2: I sat with my kids and we watched Scream, and

2202
01:54:23,640 --> 01:54:25,719
Speaker 2: they were impressed that my song was in that movie.

2203
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:29,880
Speaker 2: They loved that movie. However, Cave felt about its continued

2204
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:32,480
Speaker 2: use in Scream, he just stopped being opposed to its

2205
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 2: licensing in general, as it is also the theme song

2206
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:39,760
Speaker 2: for the prestige crime. I've never watched it. Peaky Blinders.

2207
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 2: Then later Nickckave's son would take a dangerous dose of

2208
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:43,680
Speaker 2: acid and fall.

2209
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:45,560
Speaker 3: Off a cliff. Oh is that? How was that went down?

2210
01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:49,120
Speaker 3: That happened in twenty fourteen. I didn't know the acid part.

2211
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:53,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he was super tripping, very sad, very sad.

2212
01:54:54,200 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 3: Production predictably had the battle the MPAA over certain gory

2213
01:54:57,760 --> 01:55:01,720
Speaker 3: aspects of the film. Apparently it got sent back nine

2214
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:05,400
Speaker 3: times as NC seventeen for the NPA allowed it to

2215
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:08,480
Speaker 3: go out with an R. Weirdly, one of the biggest

2216
01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:11,800
Speaker 3: points of contention was the line movies don't create psychos,

2217
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:17,240
Speaker 3: Movies make psychos more creative. Kevin Williamson told The Hollywood

2218
01:55:17,240 --> 01:55:18,960
Speaker 3: Reporter that was the line I had written on a

2219
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:21,000
Speaker 3: note card and taped to my wall, and the whole

2220
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:24,120
Speaker 3: movie was written towards that line. It came out of

2221
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 3: me watching Bob Dole, who at that time is screaming

2222
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:28,760
Speaker 3: about the violence and cinema, and he was going after

2223
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:31,880
Speaker 3: Quentin Tarantino for that whitty Harrelson Juliet Lewis movie Natural

2224
01:55:31,920 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 3: Born Killers editor Patrick Lucier said it's certainly the line

2225
01:55:35,640 --> 01:55:37,800
Speaker 3: of dialogue the NPA went after and wanted to remove

2226
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:40,720
Speaker 3: from the film. It was like, you can't speak that

2227
01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:44,000
Speaker 3: kind of truth, that particular line of dialogue. They wanted

2228
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:46,240
Speaker 3: to censor, but they don't word it that way. They

2229
01:55:46,360 --> 01:55:49,360
Speaker 3: just say, look at these areas, this is a problem,

2230
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:51,800
Speaker 3: this and this and this and this. The film was

2231
01:55:51,840 --> 01:55:54,440
Speaker 3: still titled Scary Movie until late in production when the

2232
01:55:54,440 --> 01:55:58,680
Speaker 3: Wine Scenes insisted on rechristening it to scream which prompted

2233
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:01,800
Speaker 3: a quickly settled lawsuit Sony Pictures claiming it infringed on

2234
01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:05,640
Speaker 3: the copyright of their nineteen ninety five movie Screamer. Most

2235
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:08,560
Speaker 3: people actually hated the title, though a few did begrudgingly

2236
01:56:08,560 --> 01:56:10,760
Speaker 3: admit that it tied in with the Edward Munch painting

2237
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:15,480
Speaker 3: the Mask resembled quite well. One maybe problem was that

2238
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:19,000
Speaker 3: Bob Weinstein insisted on releasing the film on December twentieth,

2239
01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:24,040
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, two days before my ninth birthday. Bob

2240
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:26,080
Speaker 3: was outam and about it, and he'd done his tracking.

2241
01:56:26,120 --> 01:56:29,560
Speaker 3: Producer Kathy Conrad told Vanity Fair that guy knew everything

2242
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:32,400
Speaker 3: about every movie. He looked at all the competition. He

2243
01:56:32,440 --> 01:56:34,960
Speaker 3: did analyze those numbers. His office was like the new

2244
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:37,800
Speaker 3: York Stock Exchange. He said, everyone's going to see all

2245
01:56:37,800 --> 01:56:39,960
Speaker 3: these other things, but there's this group of people who

2246
01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:42,840
Speaker 3: are being ignored. They're going to go see this movie, Scream,

2247
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:46,240
Speaker 3: because it's the only one counterprogramming a horror movie. No

2248
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:49,080
Speaker 3: one was thinking like that at Christmas. Bob just decided

2249
01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:52,240
Speaker 3: he was going to do it differently. One other brilliant

2250
01:56:52,280 --> 01:56:54,920
Speaker 3: part of the marketing was that the studio highly promoted

2251
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:58,200
Speaker 3: Drew Barrymore as the star, priming audiences for the bait

2252
01:56:58,280 --> 01:57:01,880
Speaker 3: and switch when she was killed ten minutes in. Scream

2253
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:04,600
Speaker 3: opened against Beavis and Butt Heead Do America, which did

2254
01:57:04,680 --> 01:57:07,320
Speaker 3: twenty million on its first weekend, while Scream did a

2255
01:57:07,320 --> 01:57:09,920
Speaker 3: mere six point three million. But the film had a

2256
01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:13,240
Speaker 3: slow burn, becoming more and more popular in nineteen ninety seven,

2257
01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:16,800
Speaker 3: eventually picking up one hundred and three million domestically against

2258
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:20,040
Speaker 3: his fifteen million dollar budget, and it was something of

2259
01:57:20,040 --> 01:57:23,320
Speaker 3: a win for Bob Weinstein. Dimension, with five films and

2260
01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:26,879
Speaker 3: release that year, were responsible for about thirty seven percent

2261
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:30,200
Speaker 3: of the studio's total grosses, whereas Harvey had put out

2262
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:33,360
Speaker 3: thirty two pictures through Mirrimax. Wow.

2263
01:57:34,240 --> 01:57:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of made Bob, which is interesting because

2264
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:40,240
Speaker 2: there was this whole like Harvey was obviously hot for

2265
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:43,760
Speaker 2: pulp fiction, but like this one was such a big

2266
01:57:44,080 --> 01:57:47,080
Speaker 2: win for dimension within the mier Max umbrella that it

2267
01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:51,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I hope he dies still, but you know.

2268
01:57:52,400 --> 01:57:54,880
Speaker 2: Critics were mostly positive about the film's striking tone and

2269
01:57:54,920 --> 01:57:57,680
Speaker 2: takes in the horror genre. Roger Ebert and Janet Maslin

2270
01:57:57,720 --> 01:58:00,360
Speaker 2: both raised the point though that the film's gore might

2271
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:03,800
Speaker 2: have diffused its satirical points. Ebert merely posed this as

2272
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 2: an open ended musing in an otherwise positive review, though

2273
01:58:07,080 --> 01:58:11,320
Speaker 2: Maslin wrote with scream Craven wants things both ways, capitalizing

2274
01:58:11,320 --> 01:58:14,880
Speaker 2: on lurid material while undermining it with mocking humor. Not

2275
01:58:14,920 --> 01:58:17,000
Speaker 2: even horror fans who can answer all this film's knowing

2276
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:20,520
Speaker 2: trivia questions may be fully comfortable with such an exploitative mix.

2277
01:58:21,080 --> 01:58:25,040
Speaker 2: This is really interesting because the Substance is a wonderful

2278
01:58:25,160 --> 01:58:27,120
Speaker 2: horror movie that just came out this year that is

2279
01:58:27,320 --> 01:58:32,000
Speaker 2: like truly a mind boggling film. It is extraordinarily beautiful,

2280
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:35,640
Speaker 2: beautifully shot. Demi Moore puts in like maybe a career

2281
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:40,400
Speaker 2: best performance, but it is so intensely stylized and so

2282
01:58:41,800 --> 01:58:46,520
Speaker 2: sledgehammering with its themes that I have been having hot

2283
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:49,080
Speaker 2: conversations with people about this movie about whether or not

2284
01:58:49,240 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 2: it crosses the pose law territory. Pose law is the

2285
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:57,440
Speaker 2: Internet adage that you cannot successfully produce a parody or

2286
01:58:57,440 --> 01:59:02,240
Speaker 2: a satire of political or religious extremism without simply making

2287
01:59:02,280 --> 01:59:03,760
Speaker 2: a copy of that thing.

2288
01:59:04,120 --> 01:59:04,560
Speaker 3: Explain.

2289
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:07,800
Speaker 2: So, the idea being that certain forms of political and

2290
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:10,680
Speaker 2: religious extremism are so caricatured. It's like, how do you

2291
01:59:10,720 --> 01:59:14,040
Speaker 2: parody Donald Trump? He's already like a singular force of

2292
01:59:14,240 --> 01:59:18,760
Speaker 2: comedic idiocy, right, So the idea of pose law is that, like,

2293
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:21,520
Speaker 2: when you are trying taking aim at something that is

2294
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:25,120
Speaker 2: so extreme and doing your parody in an extreme way,

2295
01:59:25,400 --> 01:59:29,080
Speaker 2: you have just produced the thing that you are parroting. Okay,

2296
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:29,760
Speaker 2: does that make sense?

2297
01:59:29,880 --> 01:59:33,160
Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I mean it's like, well, one of the.

2298
01:59:32,920 --> 01:59:35,000
Speaker 2: Debates one of the things that it was most frequently

2299
01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:37,560
Speaker 2: brought up with this on like film Twitter is Starship Troopers,

2300
01:59:37,600 --> 01:59:40,120
Speaker 2: where every six months someone brings up the fact that

2301
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:43,000
Speaker 2: there are people out there who just fully read Starship

2302
01:59:43,000 --> 01:59:45,880
Speaker 2: Troopers as like a rock and movie about guns and

2303
01:59:45,960 --> 01:59:49,200
Speaker 2: bugs and like, yeah, America, despite the fact that it

2304
01:59:49,240 --> 01:59:52,880
Speaker 2: was made by a Dutch guy who has very clear

2305
01:59:52,920 --> 01:59:56,640
Speaker 2: memories of the Nazis and purposely dressed all of these

2306
01:59:56,800 --> 02:00:02,440
Speaker 2: square jawed, hot American people in SSUNI forms, and that

2307
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:04,240
Speaker 2: just goes right over a lot of people's heads. And

2308
02:00:04,280 --> 02:00:06,560
Speaker 2: my thing with the substance is that, like, this movie

2309
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:12,560
Speaker 2: takes such aim, broad aim at how women are treated

2310
02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:18,400
Speaker 2: in Hollywood, women's body standards, all this really pointed stuff,

2311
02:00:18,600 --> 02:00:20,120
Speaker 2: but it does it in a way that is so

2312
02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:25,880
Speaker 2: leering and on the nose that it I feel like

2313
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:28,400
Speaker 2: there are people out there who would just straightforwardly read

2314
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:31,440
Speaker 2: it as like a great morality tale about what happens

2315
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 2: to women if they're too obsessed with their appearance, you know.

2316
02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:38,280
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I've been I've been reading a

2317
02:00:38,280 --> 02:00:40,280
Speaker 2: lot about it, and many people are just saying, like,

2318
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:42,800
Speaker 2: you are literally missing the point that is it is

2319
02:00:42,840 --> 02:00:44,880
Speaker 2: what it is, you know, it's that blunt in these

2320
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:47,160
Speaker 2: points that it's making and these things that it's tackling,

2321
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:49,920
Speaker 2: because it's forcing you to confront them in not even

2322
02:00:49,960 --> 02:00:53,160
Speaker 2: a particularly subtle way. So I just think it's a

2323
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:56,880
Speaker 2: really interesting conversation about how you can pare it these

2324
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:59,240
Speaker 2: In this case, what Maslyn and Eber brought up of,

2325
02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:02,640
Speaker 2: like when you're parodying something, and when you're satiring something

2326
02:01:03,080 --> 02:01:06,520
Speaker 2: like you know, if you look too hard at the monster,

2327
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:09,400
Speaker 2: you've become monsters also, or whatever the Nietzsche quote is,

2328
02:01:09,480 --> 02:01:11,000
Speaker 2: but you know, you know saying.

2329
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:12,920
Speaker 3: Look too far into the abyss. The aby stare too

2330
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:14,360
Speaker 3: far into the abyss the abyss stairs.

2331
02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like, how do you parody something that is

2332
02:01:17,240 --> 02:01:18,920
Speaker 2: so like how would you make a parody of Last

2333
02:01:18,920 --> 02:01:20,560
Speaker 2: House on the Left, How would you make a parody

2334
02:01:20,600 --> 02:01:25,640
Speaker 2: of like Devil's Rejects of like these really extreme examples

2335
02:01:25,680 --> 02:01:29,200
Speaker 2: of gore and stuff. It's it's without just making another

2336
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:30,480
Speaker 2: gorror film, you know.

2337
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:32,760
Speaker 3: I mean Sean of the Dead's a good example. I

2338
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:33,480
Speaker 3: think of that too.

2339
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:37,680
Speaker 2: Yes, Sean the Dead is amazing for that. Yeah, I

2340
02:01:37,720 --> 02:01:39,720
Speaker 2: don't know, man, maybe the British are just more onto

2341
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:43,240
Speaker 2: it than us. Anyway, it would be its own episode

2342
02:01:43,240 --> 02:01:46,000
Speaker 2: to discuss the impact that Scream had for starters. It

2343
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 2: launched Kevin Williamson in an enormous way. He was essentially

2344
02:01:49,680 --> 02:01:51,520
Speaker 2: worried that the film was going to flop, so he

2345
02:01:51,560 --> 02:01:53,600
Speaker 2: told the ringer, I said yes to a lot of

2346
02:01:53,640 --> 02:01:57,000
Speaker 2: stuff before Scream even came out. Dawson's creek was happening.

2347
02:01:57,320 --> 02:01:59,280
Speaker 2: I know what you did last summer was happening, and

2348
02:01:59,320 --> 02:02:01,720
Speaker 2: they sent me this script for the faculty, like on

2349
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:05,200
Speaker 2: the set of Scream. So right away you have one

2350
02:02:05,200 --> 02:02:08,320
Speaker 2: of the biggest teen dramas of the nineties, and then

2351
02:02:08,360 --> 02:02:10,640
Speaker 2: just two more of the biggest teen horror movies of

2352
02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:11,600
Speaker 2: the nineties and late two.

2353
02:02:11,480 --> 02:02:16,440
Speaker 3: Thousands created Dawson's Creek and Vampire Diaries. I didn't know that. Wow.

2354
02:02:16,760 --> 02:02:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like the shadow of that Kevin Williamson's particular

2355
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:22,520
Speaker 2: style of dialogue, as I mentioned along with Joss Whedon

2356
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:25,280
Speaker 2: because Buffy the Vampire Slayer was also huge at this

2357
02:02:25,360 --> 02:02:28,320
Speaker 2: time and lauded as an example of how you can

2358
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:32,880
Speaker 2: make compelling genre fair focused on teens. Those two men

2359
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:36,920
Speaker 2: in their dialogue of like pop culture heavy, quasi meta

2360
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:40,880
Speaker 2: reference y quippie dialogue is just something we are we

2361
02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:46,880
Speaker 2: still feel in Hollywood. And more importantly, though it launched

2362
02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:50,240
Speaker 2: Wes Craven back to the top of the Elder Statesman

2363
02:02:50,480 --> 02:02:53,920
Speaker 2: horror director pile, Scream did make an impact in negative

2364
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:56,320
Speaker 2: ways too, though. In the two thousand and six murder

2365
02:02:56,320 --> 02:02:59,640
Speaker 2: of Cassie, Joe Stoddard, the perpetrator dressed as ghost Face

2366
02:03:00,040 --> 02:03:02,920
Speaker 2: and following the Columbine High School masacre. In nineteen ninety nine,

2367
02:03:03,080 --> 02:03:06,960
Speaker 2: the United States Senate Commerce Committee reviewed the marketing of

2368
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:10,200
Speaker 2: films to youths, with Screams Opening shown as an example

2369
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:14,760
Speaker 2: of negative media that could possibly have been viewed by children. Kehole,

2370
02:03:17,040 --> 02:03:19,560
Speaker 2: I cannot stress how much this film has also been

2371
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:22,800
Speaker 2: analyzed with people with more prosgraduate degrees and impressive bylines

2372
02:03:22,840 --> 02:03:25,040
Speaker 2: than the two of us. So I'm going to avoid

2373
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:27,920
Speaker 2: all that. It's out there, you can read it. It's

2374
02:03:28,560 --> 02:03:31,680
Speaker 2: tremendously ripe text. And then, obviously, the success of the

2375
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:35,600
Speaker 2: original launched three more direct sequels and two recent reboots,

2376
02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 2: with a third on the way. But the og is

2377
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:40,200
Speaker 2: still the highest grossing and still the best. And also

2378
02:03:40,280 --> 02:03:41,960
Speaker 2: we don't even have time to get into all of that.

2379
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:44,640
Speaker 2: I would like to pull focus there back on to

2380
02:03:44,720 --> 02:03:47,360
Speaker 2: Wes Craven, whose twenty fifteen death was a huge loss

2381
02:03:47,360 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 2: to both the horror community and seemingly anyone he ever

2382
02:03:50,480 --> 02:03:55,440
Speaker 2: worked with except the Santa Rosa School District. There's two

2383
02:03:55,440 --> 02:03:59,760
Speaker 2: great quotes that his editor, Patrick Lucier, gave to Hollywood reporters.

2384
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:03,840
Speaker 2: Is very serious and very touching. Wes made very unique

2385
02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 2: films that had a lot of integrity. He understood that

2386
02:04:06,640 --> 02:04:09,240
Speaker 2: these were primal stories that were important to tell, that

2387
02:04:09,280 --> 02:04:12,400
Speaker 2: you were offering people something scary yet letting them survive

2388
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:15,680
Speaker 2: the experience. There's something about surviving on screen whoares that

2389
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:17,680
Speaker 2: makes the hordes of your own life or the charals

2390
02:04:17,760 --> 02:04:21,720
Speaker 2: and tribulations feel less So for those couple hours you

2391
02:04:21,760 --> 02:04:25,120
Speaker 2: get to escape that. And the second great quote that

2392
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:29,440
Speaker 2: he gave was Wes's memorial service, was that the Director's

2393
02:04:29,480 --> 02:04:32,080
Speaker 2: Guild of America and there's all these different people who'd

2394
02:04:32,080 --> 02:04:34,320
Speaker 2: worked with him over the years and family. There were

2395
02:04:34,360 --> 02:04:36,839
Speaker 2: all these directors who showed up for it. Michael Apdad

2396
02:04:36,840 --> 02:04:38,600
Speaker 2: who used to be the head of the Director's Guild,

2397
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:42,720
Speaker 2: Christopher Nolan, John Landis, and Toby Hooper and all these

2398
02:04:42,720 --> 02:04:45,360
Speaker 2: different people spoke. But one of the best speeches was

2399
02:04:45,400 --> 02:04:48,360
Speaker 2: one of Wes's friends from the Audubon Society who played

2400
02:04:48,360 --> 02:04:55,040
Speaker 2: bird Calls. Wes would have loved it. Whoh John Lennis killed.

2401
02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:57,600
Speaker 3: A couple kids.

2402
02:04:58,240 --> 02:05:02,720
Speaker 2: And Rick Morrill. Folks, thank you for listening. This has

2403
02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:07,360
Speaker 2: been two terrors much stab formation, close out, Spooky Mom.

2404
02:05:07,440 --> 02:05:10,200
Speaker 2: I hope you had a great Halloween everyone. I'm Alex

2405
02:05:10,280 --> 02:05:12,160
Speaker 2: Heigel and I'm Jordan Runtalg.

2406
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:19,840
Speaker 3: We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information was a

2407
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:21,240
Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radio.

2408
02:05:21,480 --> 02:05:24,720
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk.

2409
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:27,760
Speaker 3: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2410
02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:30,880
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan run

2411
02:05:30,920 --> 02:05:31,840
Speaker 2: Talk and Alex.

2412
02:05:31,600 --> 02:05:34,520
Speaker 3: Heigel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost

2413
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:37,400
Speaker 3: Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard, please subscribe

2414
02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:40,280
Speaker 3: and leave us a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio,

2415
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:43,800
Speaker 3: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

2416
02:05:43,840 --> 02:05:44,760
Speaker 3: to your favorite shows